Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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I’m still here Malty. Well, mostly so. I have been stopping in to read a page or two or three at a time but I have not been able to keep up from start to finish like I used to.
I hope we find out something very soon.
32.Jeff D says:
January 12, 2011 at 5:25 pm
My guess is everyone is actually still here. However we have beaten this horse so much it is becoming unrecognizable.
~~~
You get my vote for “quote” of the day … lol
@Beejay …
give me something … without assumptions, I got nothin’ lol
Re: Boy scouts files-My guess is that if the BSA released info that stated they knowingly allowed any pedo in their organization that they could be further sued for millions of dollars. That might explain the appearance of cover up.
@CD
@Shannon
Do you believe there is any possibility that some of the individuals involved in this case are undercover agents and or informants whom LE is trying to protect the undercover status of while still moving forward the investigation?
~~~
I’ve believed this for a long time.
@JEN says:
Just revisiting SZ’s profile; JW and family have always given me the creeps.
******
Jen, I don’t believe we have ruled them out, nor should we. Blink’s question about SZ “hiding in plain site” gives me pause, especially with regard to JW. I think he definitely fits the profile Blink gave us. Wasn’t he vaguely into
construction/building? Transient worker? Pedophilia is clearly in the family. And, there is a link to TH and RS by way of DDS. I found his description of his relationship with DDS very bizarre in the letter he wrote for the Oregonian. And, he is in Oregon (Blink says she thinks SZ is) and almost certainly reads here (which Blink has also said). Dunno about the masterful IT skills, but given his father’s activities, I wouldn’t be surprised if he has them.
I also remember finding it very odd that Blink called him out in one of her articles last year. To me, he came across as a peculiar figure on the sidelines, but not enough to warrant being mentioned in one of Blink’s articles. I found it striking at the time, and I still do.
@neighbor: So, the plaid flannel shirt guy and Asian girl from Ky’s science project photo are a pair you’ve seen elsewhere. I gather that he and the girl were on the “list” of those present 8 to noon on June 4? Are you following up on this? Blinksters are here to help
*******************
@wayupnorth: you said, “could this be why the children are named Ubaldo and Jaime, to provide new SS#s to the brothers?”
__________
Yes, it’s a good guess. We discussed that briefly earlier.
***********************
@puzzled: Not just Blinksters looking for RS; a number of Portlanders and a few out of towners, too. IIRC, Blink said that MSM reporters are in pursuit, too. Oh, and, um, aren’t Terri’s lawyers trying to serve legal papers on him? LOL
**********************
@ GeorgiaDad says:
January 12, 2011 at 1:54 pm
As far as the landscapers culpability for the murder for hire” plot; I question whether he actually violated any law.
___________
Yes, yes, exactly to everything you said. EXACTLY. (My personal preferences have always led me to call it the “faux-MFH plot”. I get the feeling it was to coverup some discovered connection between him and Terri that involved illegal activites at least on his part–and not of the hitman type.
I’m still here (live in Portland). Waiting like all of you to hear some news about Ky. I sometimes think no news is bad news…hope LE has a working theory and a positive update on the case soon.
@ Puzzled
23.enumclawrose says:
January 11, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Puz, Don’t know where the quote is, but Blink has stated that TH’s truck was parked on the shoulder and another truck was parked in the rear. From what I gather, at LEAST two white trucks.
______________________________________
4.puzzled says:
January 11, 2011 at 5:52 pm
didn’t we have the conversation, a couple of months back, about a 2nd white truck and wasn’t it’s existence verified by B?
*******************************************
1. Two nearly identical white trucks-
“One parked in the rear, and Terri parked on the shoulder.
B”
would the truck in the rear be near the above mentioned door?
I personally do not think that is the door Kyron exited from.
B
16.Kimberly says:
January 11, 2011 at 7:43 pm
This still bugs the crap outta me.
2 Ubaldo’s, one with the middle initial of “F”
and one with the middle initial of “R”
My question, could Ubaldo R, being an alias for RS?
~~~
YES!! this is where I was going!!! before “It was around the same time Blink had asked us not to post anything we couldn’t vet or wasnt case relevant.”
Has anyone else found this associate and business?
~~~
YES!! multiple businesses for Sanchez @ Canby Post Office
THANK YOU KIMBERLY!!!
23.enumclawrose says:
January 11, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Puz, Don’t know where the quote is, but Blink has stated that TH’s truck was parked on the shoulder and another truck was parked in the rear. From what I gather, at LEAST two white trucks.
~~~
thanks Rosey … that’s what I thought we learned.
Jden says:
January 11, 2011 at 9:31 am
“I completely understand and am compassionate about our quest to punish pedophiles but I think the comments in this thread are sounding evil themselves. Errors occur in the penal and judicial systems and at any time our own lives could be devastated. I believe our efforts in this upstanding forum might be better spent on prevention and awareness.”
“. . . includes school employees, parents of other children, volunteers and church members. KyH slipped through the proverbial fingers of his village. How did that happen?”
———————————
I think you stated this very well. I believe we must be vigilant, knowledgeable, courageous, determined to see justice, and supportive of victims, but we need to be careful not to allow any criminal’s actions to entice us to compound the evil beyond what is reasonable and effective.
Every single person who belongs to a PTA, club, church, or other organization or has children in school and similar organizations has the opportunity to check on their policies and security for children and to speak up about deficiencies. I have gone to church all of my life. Knowing what I know, I would not hesitate to add to the profile of SZ that he attends a church, at least semi-regularly. Here’s why –
I attended one church for about 15 years. During that time we had at least 2 issues which would have kept me from ever attending there with children. One teenager inappropriately touched the young child of the youth leaders during a party at their home. What did they do? Told him (and his parents) that he had to find another church. A few people wanted it reported – but the church leaders and parents would not. Most of us didn’t find out about the incident until he was gone and there were so many rumors it had to be explained.
The second issue involved an adult – and to me this is a perfect example of hiding in plain sight, even though anyone with any sense could have seen him, IMO. A single man in his early 40’s started attending our church. He was well liked, seemed to fit right in, volunteered to drive the van on Sunday mornings to pick up elderly residents of an assisted living home, and was added to the driving rotation schedule. Not long after, he told the leaders that he was having trouble finding a job and asked for prayer and help with his rent. I told them I would have coffee with him and see if I could help him write a resume. Of course, I asked what he thought the barriers were to being hired, and he said he had a prison record. I asked what for – he said as a sex offender, adding, “But it was only my daughter and she’s all grown up now and isn’t restricted from seeing me anymore and wants me to meet my grandkids at a McDonald’s soon.” A dozen church leaders knew him for months, but no one else had ever asked.
He still had to register, but had been off probation about a month. I called and talked to his former probation officer anyway. I went back and told the church leaders who said, “He’s really trying to turn his life around and we don’t want to take that away.” I pointed out that he was driving the van, had made friends with and been in the home of the ONE family in our congregation who took in foster kids who had been sexually abused (they had some DHS training, but never saw a connection – the guy didn’t invite himself, he got them to think it was their idea to invite him), and had mentioned that he’d be glad to drive the van to pick up kids for Vacation Bible School since he was already approved for driving. Our church was very small and the building did not allow for safely separating kids from adults in passing to various places.
It is so exasperating to be dealing with “leaders” like that and for them to be insistent that you are not a “leader” so they have to make the decisions. I convinced them to check on their liability insurance, but of course being a church, they thought we must have our own “automatic spiritual protection”. They finally decided on a safety plan, which I wrote (no one else knew how). One pastor called him in and explained it to him (restricted doors, restricted bathroom, specific seating, no van driving, no dinners in members’ homes with children, constant escorts who were trained but I had my doubts would be watchful enough, and much more at church and in the community) – he said of course he would comply, and never came back, which is what I expected.
The lead pastor of this church would often given sermons about families and how Jesus loved children and then encourage all adults to “hug the little ones they meet at church”. I really fought with him about that one. Eventually, he didn’t want me around anymore and I left – just that church, not church in general, and not God – this isn’t a discussion about religion, it’s about ignorance, failed leadership, and stupidity, IMO. Of course, I don’t want church doors to be closed or opportunities taken away, I just want safe children.
I repeat, I would not be at all reluctant to add to the SZ profile that he attended church. If you go to church, think what you can find out about people there without ever talking directly to the person or family. Here’s some quick examples I can think of just from following prayer lists which are often printed in paper form and available to pick up – who had surgery, who’s having marriage problems, whose kid is struggling in school, whose husband/wife is traveling and needs a safe trip home, who has a financial problem (car repair, etc.), who has a relative who drinks too much or uses drugs – you get the picture. Many churches have photo directories for members and regular attenders. The church I discussed left the directories out in the lobby for pickup even though the building was used for AA meetings and a regular DUI diversion class, all filled with non-members. I used to go and pick them up ahead of the classes.
Fixing this gaping security hole, IMO, can be improved one church at a time, but I think it takes a much broader understanding and unified, non-denominational approach to make much real progress. I’ve seen churches that were much more careful online (using member applications and passwords) than in their lobbies.
I realize this may be OT, but what I’m trying to show is that a pedophile with a purpose can gather a lot of “useful” information without ever becoming a “friend” of the family and without, necessarily, doing anything on church property. Churches should always be kept on the list of places we call in “plain sight”.
Has anyone in their online research , ran across a business by the name of “Estrada’s”? I found it, but when a google search is performed it comes up empty.
The reason I ask is because , I’ve had a gut feeling for some time now that our Elsy, may not be involved with RS directly, but instead Jaime.
The business listed above, has/had two owners, (representatives), one is Jaime, and one is Elizabeth. To me, with Elsy’s children being of the names Jaime, and Ubaldo, it would make sense that one is named after the elder father (grandfather) and the other the birth father (Jaime). Elizabeth may be a stretch of a name to Elsy, but, it could also indicate Elsy as being a nick name.
Clean factor is also registered to Jaime and it was opened rather quickly after KY’s disappearance. I wonder if the business listed as Estrada’s was closed at that time and then clean factor was opened.
Clean factor has one registered owner, Jaime.
Estrada’s listed both Jaime and Elizabeth.
SANCHEZ, ESTRADA ELIZABETH
Associated names:
ESTRADA, JAIME S
SANCHEZ, JAIME
Available(1) Available CANBY, OR
OREGON CITY, OR ESTRADA’S
ESTRADA’S
***************************************
my source is veromi public directory
@malty: I used the term ‘going underground’ because Blink had used it in reference to her perp-profile. I assume she and I and most of us use that term in the same way. When I want to quickly find a definition, I go to my favorite search engine (google.com) and type in, in this case: definition of going underground.
Here’s a link to one of the results that search brought up:
http://thesaurus.com/browse/going+underground
(going into hiding, etc.)
____________________
One other tip I assume most of you know–and I find it very helpful in sleuthing–go to the white pages (online) for the city of interest. Find the address for the person of interest. Usually below the main info, in tiny type, you’ll find the word ‘Neighbors.’
Click on that and up will come the names, addys, and phone nos. of the nearby neighbors, whether houses or apartments. Neighbors are interesting. Oldtime gumshoe PIs always talk to neighbors.
puzzled says:
January 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm
@CD
@Shannon
Do you believe there is any possibility that some of the individuals involved in this case are undercover agents and or informants whom LE is trying to protect the undercover status of while still moving forward the investigation?
~~~
I’ve believed this for a long time.
——————
Yes I believe their may be an undercover LE involved in another case that could be connected to KY’s case. But i have to say that LE has had 7 months to wrap up their other case. But then again maybe it’s a case where an undercover person would spend years supplying LE with info by seeming to be part of an illegal organization.
Malty, re:underground
Part of the profile:
Skills or resources to go underground quickly and for sustained periods of time.
We have focused on the IT skills for awhile, maybe we should look at the other components that make up the profile. In my community for example, we have guys that leave for months at a time to go fishing in Alaska. Had an inlaws relative at my house over Christmas that traveled all over the country to do electrical work on ships. We have retired people that have second and third homes that leave this area for extended periods of time. We have retired people that spend the winter in Arizona. Some only are here in the winter when the ski resort is open. Some of them are from other countries.
This may not be underground in the true sense of the term, as in off the grid, with no trace, but out of sight, maybe, out of mind. Things were just about to change at Skyline, the school was going to close for the summer. Lots of people leaving. Skyline parents, trying to jump start your memories with my own underground people. Who leaves in your neighborhood? Agricultural workers? Teachers? IDK, just trying to help, sigh. Maybe others with ideas will chime in.
It sure seems like part of the undercover operation has to do with all of the porn busts, before and after Ky went missing. I think organized criminals usually dabble in anything that makes them money; drugs, porn, human trafficking, MFH, theft. Also, something to think about, not all undercover agents started on the side of the law, they could just be snitches. I think the fact that the sting had a DEA agent coupled with RS says that somehow drugs are involved in this scenario, however, drugs lead to violent, not sexually motivated crimes. Maybe RS is a snitch.
8.cd says:
January 12, 2011 at 7:19 pm
puzzled says:
January 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm
@CD
@Shannon
Do you believe there is any possibility that some of the individuals involved in this case are undercover agents and or informants whom LE is trying to protect the undercover status of while still moving forward the investigation?
~~~
I’ve believed this for a long time.
——————
Yes I believe their may be an undercover LE involved in another case that could be connected to KY’s case. But i have to say that LE has had 7 months to wrap up their other case. But then again maybe it’s a case where an undercover person would spend years supplying LE with info by seeming to be part of an illegal organization.
13.puzzled says:
January 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm
16.Kimberly says:
January 11, 2011 at 7:43 pm
This still bugs the crap outta me.
2 Ubaldo’s, one with the middle initial of “F”
and one with the middle initial of “R”
My question, could Ubaldo R, being an alias for RS?
~~~
YES!! this is where I was going!!! before “It was around the same time Blink had asked us not to post anything we couldn’t vet or wasnt case relevant.”
Has anyone else found this associate and business?
~~~
YES!! multiple businesses for Sanchez @ Canby Post Office
THANK YOU KIMBERLY!!!
****************************************
Sooooooo you’ve seen the electrical business I have discussed then?
and the person’s name???
@ MockingbirdSings says:
January 12, 2011 at 7:06 pm
_________________
Thank you and thank Heaven FOR you and your persistence. Churches are so difficult, for the very reasons you explained so clearly. Bless you!
Kimberly: have you looked at OR Sec of State’s business registry for Estrada’s? There is one with that exact name; it’s currently Inactive (their bus. registration isn’t up to date; for several years, IIRC).
Here’s the listing. Don’t know if the page will pull up directly, but I assume you know how to search there:
http://egov.sos.state.or.us/br/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.do_name_srch?p_name=ESTRADAS&p_regist_nbr=&p_srch=PHASE1&p_print=FALSE&p_entity_status=ACTINA
Didn’t Blink once say there was a parallel investigation?
Not important, but a June 15 SPC FB note id’s their member Rachel Hansen as Kaine’s friend & vigil organizer
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=434158594133
Also, between June 11-13 Hansen wrote a letter self-identifying as Kaine’s friend & organizer, saying she’s assisted by Cook & Owens, 2 other Kaine friends. They never id selves as “friends of the family” or include Terri. Even if HS friends, I find it odd Rachel emphasizes in both notes they are friends of Kaine.
http://srnpdx.org/kyron-horman
beejay says:
January 11, 2011 at 8:52 am
“In general, I put very little faith in the predictive ability of psychiatry and/or criminology when it comes to whether any individual is likely to do anything. And I think most professionals with any substantive experience (and no ulterior motives) would honestly agree with me.”
———————–
And yet we use this “predictive ability” all the time for profiling, sentencing, parole hearings, institutional releases, probation requirements, and more, in both ways – what we expect them TO do and what we expect them NOT to do.
http://parkerspitzer.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/11/psychiatrist-analyzes-loughners-conduct/
This brief interview with Dr. Gail Saltz concerning the Arizona shooting is excellent, IMO. She talks about reasons why we don’t get help earlier for anyone who shows signs of needing help for mental health issues. She also mentions that earlier identification would point to the need for more funding, more providers, and more science. I couldn’t help but think about our discussions of pedophiles – more funding, more providers (supervision), and more science to prevent, recognize, etc.
I’ve been thinking for the millionth time about how Kyron could have left school. (Yes, I admit we’ve all talked about this before.)
Let’s assume I am a criminal who plans carefully and tries to think of all the things that could go wrong or incriminate me.
1. I must understand that I do not have absolute control of everyone and where they go or what they see and hear, or how they interpret their observations – even less control in a crowded place. However, I do have control over how I present myself and what I appear to be doing, although I must remain aware that circumstances and responses which I have predicted may change.
2. I must anticipate that at some point, LE will search every possible related location in the school, and will use dogs to assist – maybe different dogs trained for different kinds of clues. I do not know how soon that will occur, but I must leave things as “clue free” as possible from the start of my actions to the end. I also cannot have any contamination of my vehicle or my own clothing.
Therefore:
1. HOW I PRESENT MYSELF AND WHAT I APPEAR TO BE DOING:
a – I need to have a knack for improvising, a menu of responses I can use as needed.
a – I could appear to be part of a group – an extra workman, for example.
b – I could use a disguise – a subtle one, such as make-up to change some features slightly or hide a noticeable blemish, etc. Changing from a cap to a hat, adding or removing glasses, and reversing a jacket are easy distractions.
c – I could use a more intricate disguise, added or removed quickly. Strong disguises probably take more time to put on than discard. I could use the disguise the whole time and remove it when I leave the area, or discard it at any point I choose. I could “change” my age, skin tone, facial hair, even my gender and mannerisms.
d – I could present nothing different about how my body looks, but add a prop to take the attention away – frequent use of a camera (people tend to notice and stay out of the way) or a handkerchief covers the face and the “sniffles”.
e – I could use another prop – a clipboard and pen – so people will assume I’m doing something important such as taking notes, evaluating, etc. – keeps the face looking down or away from others. I could write down numbers that are on pipes, measure something that could need replacing, etc. – things people wouldn’t care about, but would think I did.
f – I could appear to be working on something – everybody will assume everyone else knows what I am doing – (requires too many props and possibly uniform and tools – too complex). If I had an accomplice who had a legitimate reason to be working, I could fit in, but then I have to trust someone else either before or after, and I am the only one with “superior skills” for this sort of crime.
2. TAKING KYRON AWAY WITH NO TRACE:
[note: it doesn’t matter if LE did or didn’t examine every car, let dogs sniff around cars, go to everyone’s home and check their vehicle, etc. – the point is that a good planner must assume it will happen]
a – Terri’s (Kaine’s) truck is not a suspicious place for Kyron to be. If no signs of trauma are there, nothing else matters since he rode to school with her anyway.
b – If I use my own vehicle, not even a hair must show up in my vehicle, and no scent – my only option is a container without ventilation, probably lined and already closed when placed in my vehicle (of any type)
c – Another vehicle which would be “safe” for me would be a vehicle where Kyron and many other children mingle frequently – a school bus – as long as there are no signs of trauma.
d – a vehicle that cannot be associated directly with me and will be removed from the area or hidden away indefinitely (riskier)
I do not see (feel free to add) any other ways this could have happened with so little evidence left at the school as there appears to be, unless there WAS evidence and it was overlooked or destroyed. But my original point that whoever was planning would have to plan well in advance without the “overlooked or destroyed” to count on, leads me back to the options I have listed, since “overlooked or destroyed” cannot be counted on or controlled – unless perhaps you are, or have an accomplice, in LE.
Speaking as myself – I don’t have to be super smart to find out what happened to Kyron because I have another weapon on my side – time. As soon as a criminal starts planning a crime, the clock is running on his/her side until the act is completed. BUT, once the act is done, the clock begins running on my side toward finding out what happened and who did it – and MY clock NEVER stops running. History proves that. I may wish it could happen faster, and I keep working toward that end, but someday, people WILL know the answers.
No criminal is smart enough or powerful enough to keep that secret forever because even if that person grows old and dies, people will remember until the crime is solved. We will continue to invent new ways to research and solve crimes, and we will always recognize the vast difference between a so-called “smart criminal” and an intelligent human being. Sooner or later, we win, you lose.
@Malty…I’m still here too…I keep waiting like the rest of you for a break in the case and throw my two cents in every now and then.
@family…Looks like we agree on what to do with child abusers as well!
@Beejay….Glock, Smith and Wesson, Louisville Slugger (aka Louie) whatever it takes.
@all…after what happened in AZ over the weekend I have to agree with what Jden said about the impact our words have on other people. Yes we do need to realize there are consequences to what we say, at the same time if there is a man or woman that is found time and again guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of molesting children then I stand by what I said. Tattoo a bulls-eye on their forehead the first time, shoot the second time. We don’t give mad dogs a second chance to bite and I’ve no clue as to why we keep letting these perps back out in society.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
White pages listings are still showing Rudy as living at the same rental house as always. Scroll down to the bottom of the page at the link.
Oh, and see how the neighbors are listed for an addy? 3 pages of them. In this case, there are some businesses very nearby, too.
Maybe a blinkster knows one of the neighbors or business owners?? They might be helpful with questions about Jaime, Elsy (which is a common nickname for Elizabeth, BTW), and/or the missing children.
http://www.whitepages.com/search/Replay?firstname=a-z&name=a-z&page=2&search_id=03121430853110447279&search_type=findneighbors&where=portland%2C-or-97267
@Kimberly …
YES
beejay said “So, the plaid flannel shirt guy and Asian girl from Ky’s science project photo are a pair you’ve seen elsewhere. I gather that he and the girl were on the “list” of those present 8 to noon on June 4? Are you following up on this? Blinksters are here to help”
@beejay, I do not know their names. To know if MM/they are on the list, I would have to know everybody on that list so that I can rule everybody else out. Nobody that I know recognized MM. This year, I have been at the school every day, but have not seen MM. Even when I try to imagine him without the facial hair and girl.
@B, do you want me to follow up on MM?
*****
neighbor said “Sorry to keep asking for pointers, but I have trouble finding Tony Phipps in the RSO registry. I would be interested in finding what car he drives. I saw somebody in a lime green car at a school yesterday that looked like him.”
Kimberly said “IIRC, Weren’t you the poster who was asking about a lime green car a few pages back? The reason I ask is because I remember seeing someone posting about that, but don’t remember why or what the specifics about a green car were. Would you refresh my memory please? Also, I had posted a day or two ago that I couldn’t find Phipps in the system either.”
@Kimberly, yes that was me. An old rumor is that an unidentified lime green car was in the main parking on Jun/4. Sorry, I have no idea where I read this. Please take it with a grain of salt.
***
@beejay and other locals, I keep hearing rumors about a big drugs very close to the school that was not reported in the MSM. Did your antennas pick up such signals?
***
@beejay, “antsy” doesn’t quite describe my feeling, but I am looking forward to February and hope it will bring closure.
yes, please.
B
@ Kimberly and Beejay:
Y’all are tireless — Keep going!
Kimberly says:
January 12, 2011 at 7:58 pm
2 Ubaldo’s, one with the middle initial of “F”
and one with the middle initial of “R”
*******
Maybe middle initial is simply a typo since “F” and “R” are fairly close to each other on the keyboard? Or maybe someone couldn’t read handwriting from a form?
This happens on one of the numerous Estrada in Sec of State Business Corporation records:
beejay says:
January 12, 2011 at 8:22 pm
Kimberly: have you looked at OR Sec of State’s business registry for Estrada’s? There is one with that exact name; it’s currently Inactive (their bus. registration isn’t up to date; for several years, IIRC).
Here’s the listing. Don’t know if the page will pull up directly, but I assume you know how to search there:
http://egov.sos.state.or.us/br/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.do_name_srch?p_name=ESTRADAS&p_regist_nbr=&p_srch=PHASE1&p_print=FALSE&p_enti,
On one record there is Reyes and a Peyes listed as Estrada partner–clearly someone misreading handwriting or mistyping.
Ubaldo R is aka RS
Then
Elsy aka maria
Check out the website webmii-elsy mejia many pics and links on this site. May need translator for some of the links, but I do believe there is a more recent pic of missing ubaldo
OK – ages ago – June, July, etc., I read tons of business names in Oregon and Washington and printed anything that looked remotely connected to see what I could make of it. Mostly, I only posted about RSE and JSE and their businesses and the Canby PO Boxes and the rental house on Renada Street which I drove past several different times.
So many other people seemed to be following that line of research, that I didn’t keep it up. I tried to connect Rudy to a person of the same name in Vancouver, thinking that there might be a business connection between a Washington business, the UCC lien and Rudy’s truck, but Blink said the Vancouver Rudy, who was connected to a Muchas Gracias Restaurant there, was a different person.
However, out of all that. it seems we have certain threads that connect people. One is landscaping, lawn maintenance, plants, etc. Another is Mexican restaurants like Muchas Gracias which is a franchise, so has many different owners listed. They also hire many Mexican people who don’t yet speak English very well.
I’m sitting here tonight pondering a mystery which probably has a simple explanation but I can’t find it. The mystery is why would Terri drive all the way to the Albertson’s on Shattuck Road – or send DeDe there looking enough like her to fool surveillance cameras. Assuming LE really does have proof Terri went there, then what was she doing so far out of her way?
There is a Rite Aid next to the Albertson’s, but she certainly was driving past many other stores and pharmacies to get to these, neither of which are large or any better supplied than other stores. I wondered early on if she had gone there to fill a prescription, perhaps having more than one for the same drug from different doctors and using different pharmacies. That was just a wild guess.
There is a Muchas Gracias across the street from the Albertson’s. It used to be a Wendy’s and M.G. moved in by early 2009. I passed it again 2 days ago and it’s clearly a Muchas Gracias according to the sign, so I wanted to see who the registered agent is. I searched the Oregon Business Registry with a number of variations for Muchas Gracias, but NO records come up for this particular address even though it should have been registered at least by 2009 or earlier. Why can’t I find a business registration?
note: The Muchas Gracias in Hillsboro, registered on 4-8-10, is registered under “Arredondo Estrada Investments LLC”. No name is given other than the LLC. I tried searching under “business owner’s name” also, but couldn’t find the M.G. I was looking for.
There is also a DIY carwash across from the Albertson’s and right next to the Muchas Gracias. You can wash your own car or vacuum using a supply of quarters, as well as dump trash in their bins. It never used to be attended, I doubt if it is now, but I could check.
Something else that comes up for the Muchas Gracias address which is 5226 SW Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy (97221), is “0 Waiting Time Locksmith Service”. This is a fairly common locksmith business name, not just in Oregon. There are at least 8 listings with addresses and phone numbers in the Portland area, but this name does not show up in the Business Registry either and this particular address is not one on the list if you Google the name. It occurred to me that perhaps these are really just trucks (probably a white pickup truck with locksmith tools) ready to go with no actual location (the reason for “no waiting time”), however why list the restaurant address instead of a residence unless someone is working there but able to leave if called. (I couldn’t set up a business as a piano tuner and then decide to register using the address of my favorite restaurant – doesn’t make sense to me. If it’s an error, it is the same in any search.) And it is still a business that requires a license, but doesn’t appear to have one. An emergency locksmith business would certainly be a good cover for a lot of other things.
So maybe Terri went to Albertson’s to get quarters, then went across the street (which is uphill and probably wouldn’t show on an Alb. camera) to clean out/vacuum the truck at the carwash (the garbage would certainly be gone before LE knew about it), or to meet someone inside the Muchas Gracias or in the parking lot (they open at 7AM), or to get something unlocked by a locksmith she may know who hangs around there, or all of the above.
Has anyone gone this direction before and come to any conclusions? I think I have read every word about this case, but it’s still possible I may have missed something already written. If so, I apologize. When I have time, I will try to find out from the state why these 2 business names aren’t registered unless someone here already knows.
Intersting article on child molestation and age of consent in Mexico. If you get past the list of names, which does include an Estrada in Oregon City, there is more to the article, including the age of consent as 12.
snip>
The crime of kidnapping a woman for the purpose of rape and marriage against their will, or “rapto” as it is known in Mexico is actually a minor crime and rarely ever prosecuted. A Mexican legislator actually called the practice “romantic.” Of course, this crime if committed in the United States would elicit felony charges and a penalty of 20 years to life in prison.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XI4xwi7XCmsJ:www.examiner.com/crime-in-norfolk/why-has-child-molestation-committed-by-illegal-aliens-become-an-epidemic+sanchez+estrada+molesters&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
August 20, 2007
Oregon City, Oregon
Charged: Alejandro Hernandez-Flores, 19 and Mario Alberto Flores-Estrada, 20
Charges: rape, sodomy, and sexual abuse
Victims: two girls ages 14 and 15
I realize this is probably not the same offenders that would go after a young boy, however, the names and location cannot be ignored in this case as I have seen both associated with the Sanchez-Estrada family.
Beejay- I’m going to learn how to quote. You are heading in the right direction. Good man. I wish I had your stamina.
Elizabeth. I bet you learned never to look a car driver in the face again,huh. They can’t threat you if you won’t look
Well y’all would never make it in Jersey, lol.
It is the art of the circle, and if you do not look the driver in the eye and never touch the break, you sit there for days.
B
Puzzler; There are at least THREE white trucks in play.
Uno: on the street
Dos: on the upper road
Tres: out in back-seen outa that propped open gym door
Quatro: I hand it right back to you.
Iodized salt; That’s a very important conversation. It’s about…um a very real possibility of where Kyron is today.
My gg grandmother was Elizabeth called Elsy
My g grand mother was Elsada called Elsy
Just some info
I am glad everyone is here
I read alot about underground
I think Continuing a operation in secret
Made the most sense as far as this case goes
I always thought RS was undercover
But why was he with Terri I can not figure it.
15.Kimberly says:
January 11, 2011 at 7:30 pm
(snipped)
The reason I ask is because I remember seeing someone posting about that, but don’t remember why or what the specifics about a green car were.
Would you refresh my memory please?
———
@Kimberly – You are probably recalling a lime green VW bug discussed here & other sites, one of the newer models. There was a photo taken of a parent leaving Skyline on June 4th in one with a daughter wearing glasses that looked a lot like Ky, you could just see her face above the dashboard in the picture. Anyway, a lot of folks jumped on that photo thinking it was Ky & abductor, LOL. Obviously it was not, or the case would have been wrapped up within days.
18.MockingbirdSings says:
January 12, 2011 at 7:06 pm
@MBS- All of your recent post have been excellent, informative, as usual! You have presented a lot to consider, thank you.
———
@Kimberly, beejay, puzzled- Jaime sure has A LOT of companies and enterprises going on. I find it beyond suspicious…what is he really involved in? And, who is he really? Why isn’t he a POI?
*******************
RE: JW -12.pdxgirl says:
January 12, 2011 at 6:40 pm
@JEN says:
Just revisiting SZ’s profile; JW and family have always given me the creeps.
———
Agreed. He most certainly fits the profile and I’ve always had a bad feeling about him. His letters of outrage to Blink and others, and the letter to OL, were very disturbing. I analyzed all of his interviews, letters, and postings at length and he does not pass the stink test for me at all. The only problem: He made himself very public, and if there is a descripton of SZ as Blink has indicated, it seems that someone would say “Hey, that’s the guy!”, unless he was disguised as per MBS’s recent post/theory. I could write a thesis on him, I practically have, there are so many avenues wrt to him. All just IMHO.
We still have our sense of humor. From SM:
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #40 1/01/11 -
« Reply #864 on: January 12, 2011, 05:43:46 PM »
Quote from: klaasend on January 12, 2011, 09:25:44 AM
A 15 MINUTE SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE LAST NIGHT TURNED INTO 12 HOURS. SORRY ABOUT THE DOWNTIME. EVERYTHING SHOULD BE OK NOW.
That was scary! I thought SZ with the mad IT skills closed us down! Monkey Devil!
Lol. I do not know what I would do without Klaasend and I hope I never have to.
B
FYI from KATU late yesterday aftn:
“Presiding Judge Keith Meisenheimer tells us both Kaine and Terry have agreed to continue the abatement for another three months. The disposition was expected to start this month….
…We do not yet know what judge is taking over the case. However, we are being told Meisenheimer will be brought in as a “senior judge” for the Horman divorce case.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/113144919.html
ICE experts (can’t remember who ours is): where is Anselmo Sanchez Sanchez?
ICE inmate locator shows him not in custody this a.m.
From ICE:
Name: ANSELMO SANCHEZ SANCHEZ
Country of Birth: Mexico
Year of Birth: 1982
Status: Not In Custody
The individual’s status is “not in custody,” which means the person was released from ICE custody within the last 60 days for any of the following reasons:
* Removed from or voluntarily departed the United States,
* Released from custody pending the outcome of their case,
* Released into the United States due to the resolution of the immigration case (e.g., grant of an immigration benefit that permits the person to remain in the country), or
* Transferred into the custody of another law enforcement or custodial agency.
ERO Office Information
Family members and legal representatives may be able to obtain additional information about this individual’s case by contacting this ERO office: TACOMA, WA, Phone Number: (253) 779-6000
LINK: https://locator.ice.gov/odls/searchByName.do
(sometimes these locators won’t bring up an internal page such as I linked above; they force you to go thru the search page and Agree to the terms of service. For AS-S, you MUST enter his name this way: Anselmo Sanchez Sanchez. From Mexico)
@M’bird. “evidence overlooked or destroyed”. Yes, high risk. In fact Skyline brought back a second janitor and had TWO working overtime to keep that place spruced up during the end of school year when there were so many visitors, searchers, LE around..not to mention anxious parents. IMO it should have been treated as a crime scene with school open in auxiliary location from Day 1. Public schools do this in other circumstances (natural harm to bldg scenarios).
I can no longer find the link, and dont know how to find my posting of ithat link to this material of a week ago perhaps, when I asked where the esteemable Christopher Neil Horman fits in the family. This is background noise, but the full article I’d found at that time recounted story details I no longer find on line. Christopher said 2 older bros of his family of 4 bros are deceased (how?). He recounts a father so emotionally abusive he had to move out to his sister’s. Father had zero tolerance for a jobless vet with depression, severe anxiety, , physical injuries & ptsd. Said he was spitting on his brothers’ memories. And so on. Chris is doing well now. in one e-note Kristian’s wife is supportive. The way I figure it, he could be youngest child of Melvin/Joyce, with R Neil as brother and Kimberly (Dahm) as sister, Kaine/Kristian being adoptive nephews. I’m curious I guess, because of the magnitude of father’s emo abuse and the 2 deceased older brothers
Also, I noticed on a recent major case (cant think of any but tucson ive noticed so prob that one) the spokesperson said dea had been called in, then clarified it was only because they had some hotshot new techology. So I wouldnt assume DEA involvement in Ky’s case means drugs. If a parallel imvestigation I think now it was something to do with children and sex trade, porn or other.
The other option is Christopher is a nephew of R Neil & his father, Melvin’s son, had at least 4 boys & 1 girl, making him not Kaine/Kristian’s uncle but a cousin. I’m just wondering what 2 brothers died and what father was severely emotionally abusive at one recorded juncture.
zeus says:
January 11, 2011 at 7:34 pm
justice23 says:
January 11, 2011 at 1:07 pm
************
Thanks Justice! I don’t know why I couldn’t get it to link. Appreciate the help!
—————————-
Very welcome! I can’t believe ANYONE wouldn’t want those files released … that article link you posted was infuriating! Is it just me or does anyone else here occasionally feel like we’re in the middle of a real-life “This Present Darkness” with some of these darker cases? (awesome Frank Peretti book … anyone ever read it?)
@29 beejay. TY. golly gosh. Meisenheimer retains the case. Retirement irrelevant. No jawboning by new pro- mediation judge. Terri’s atty wanted more abatement; Kaine’s did not. What changed his mind? When did this agreement, since they’ve never concurred before, go down and why?
50.beejay says:
January 13, 2011 at 8:55 am
From ICE:
Name: ANSELMO SANCHEZ SANCHEZ
Country of Birth: Mexico
Year of Birth: 1982
Status: Not In Custody
The individual’s status is “not in custody,” which means the person was released from ICE custody within the last 60 days for any of the following reasons:
* Removed from or voluntarily departed the United States,
* Released from custody pending the outcome of their case,
* Released into the United States due to the resolution of the immigration case (e.g., grant of an immigration benefit that permits the person to remain in the country), or
* Transferred into the custody of another law enforcement or custodial agency.
——-
TY, Beejay.
Blink – Can you please advise? Do you believe he has been deported or should I be looking for the SOB on my streets? TIA.