Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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@ Bradon says:
January 19, 2011 at 1:27 am
_____________
Bradon, in addition to your sequencing question, I’ve always wondered–since Kim Holm IS on the “list” for June 4–why was Terri the one taking Kurtis’ picture? I read Kim make some reference to that, but it didn’t answer any questions for me.
Could the sequencing relate to Terri sending Kim a Kurtis photo by phone while Kim was away from school? Just thinking Kim was there at some part of the day, but not all of it.
*********************
@enumclawrose: Don’t have a link for you about the anchor baby thing, but I’m 99% sure a baby born in US to illegals remains solely in the legal custody of their parents. Maybe Lea or MBS will help.
I’m more seeing DHS being involved with Elsy’s kids either before she took off–thru a neglect/abuse investigation or case–or, after she took off with them. MBS knows more about OR’s DHS system.
Before we launch into the whole clan of Ubaldo Robles and Rauls and all, it gains us nothing unless we can tie some Ubaldo R Sanchez (or his alias) to Elsy, if only via her residency at the 955 S Pacific Hwy addy or the other one we found her as a household member at, which is the 162nd St addy.
*****************
BTW, I called Portland Police and went thru their confusing voicemail. Only to end up with their suggestion that callers just email them and wait for a fairly quick response. Can I tell ya’ll how much I hate that it has come to this? It doesn’t discourage me, just slows me down. But think of all the folks who just say forget it–too much trouble.
When I’m in town, I always show up in person at places, with something handwritten to leave with the front desk if I have to. But, usually I bring some work or a book and sit myself down with great patience till the desk clerk gets tired of me and makes someone come get me and talk. We’re in a heap of trouble in this country.
Let me say more about why, though it bears watching, I don’t suspect this Estrada Consulting, Inc. to be a Jaime enterprise.
It is a corporation. Not a LLC or ABN, which are easier to set up, cheaper to set up and maintain (virtually no annual reporting requirements in the states I’m aware of) than a corporation. Most people who set up a corporation do so thru a lawyer–another expense. Tax reporting is more complicated with a corporation.
It is a “foreign corporation”. Foreign means out of state–not out of country. Again, a needless expense and entanglement for a small time businessman.
Nevertheless, we can watch the state’s business registry to see whose name and addy is listed once they show more info. Looks like the corp just recently applied for authority to do business in OR and more entries will come.
Every “John Smith” is not OUR “John Smith”.
******************
I’m off on a hunt for a guy who was too clever to get his picture taken and probably to get on anyone’s list.
@Sassifrass: I posted here last fall or up till the end of the year (with links I’m pretty sure, since it was new info), all that info about the jewish center providing the onsite daycare at Skyline. Sorry you guys had to reinvent the wheel over at SM. I would’ve retrieved my posts when I saw ya’ll working over there if I could more successfully do an Advanced Search on Google for BOC. I can’t. Could be my lacking skills; could relate to how Blink has her site set up with respect to that. I apologize for that; hate to see anyone reinventing the wheel.
Anywho, I also found that prior to the jewish academy, Linnton Community Center provided that onsite daycare at Skyline K8. I never followed up to see when LCC left off and the Jewish Acad took over. I saw LCC has had budget problems last few years, but couldn’t access anything deeper as to the daycare. Point being, I’m still unsure who was running the daycare last June 4. One reason I wanted to know was that there was a burglary at LCC awhile after June 4. At that time LCC was providing workspace for LE involved in Ky’s investigation. I’m not sure that the press got the full listing of items taken by the burglar (I have no evidence to support that statement; it just pricked my ears.)
@Sassifrass: HUGE OOOPS! My bad. The burglary at LCC was in May–prior to Ky’s disappearance. Here’s the link:
http://www.kptv.com/news/23601409/detail.html
I still don’t like it; maybe even more so now that I see it was May 18. “personal info” was taken.
Did a Google search for: Linnton Community Center Portland burglary
Yes, of course I know his name, but I see no reason to violate his privacy by sharing it. I couldn’t stand up in a court and say its him without seeing his face, but the little girl and his body type and clothing fit.
I meant privately, if he can be verified, I have no incentive or wish to post his name, which, is already posted on the list, however. I have to be honest, I get emails and posts constantly saying this person has been confirmed, but I get equally as many from FELLOW SKYLINE parents, who say, nope, I spoke to “so and so” and nobody knows who that is.
Not once when I have asked for a name, has a person been able to provide it and that is seriously starting to freak me out, If I am being honest.
B
If anyone needs a contact within the homeless community in portland, you might find one in the staff directory of the alternative newspaper StreetRoots. Very interesting. I wonder how many of us it would take to get them to publish the photos of missing children? Or the reward money info? Maybe working thru their advertisers will be more productive. Among the honest street people who’re down on their luck are also a number of known sex offenders/predators. You know?
http://www.streetroots.org/index.php
@Constance
@Kozyotb
@lyla
@Falstaff
@constance says:
January 18, 2011 at 6:33 pm
I feel as though Kyron was capable of walking out of the school all by himself, and climbing into the familiar truck at someone’s request/direction. I don’t find it to be likely that someone unknown to anyone at the school would take a chance of walking out with a child, i.e. a friend of Terri’s, or even a landscaper who may or may not be a regular at the school as an employee.
~~~
after months of trying to fit the assumptions into some kind of a scenario … and as the assumptions are being eliminated … and there’s no supporting evidence of any other scenario … Constance’s theory seems to be the one that remains.
21.sassifrass says:
January 18, 2011 at 1:25 pm
@beejay: regarding Ubaldo “R” and Ubaldo “F”
~~~
THANKS!! great job. However …
the addresses for Ubaldo “R” do not match up with the known address of Rudy.
So …. Ubaldo “R” is an alias (for informant work, hehe) or is a “homey” or is a bro.
45.enumclawrose says:
January 18, 2011 at 10:31 pm
We are coming together from different directions and that might be where a jury finds itself someday, looking at what degree each party participated.
~~~
Rosey’s comment really speaks to the “purpose” of being here.
Y’all been reading me long enough to know that I take nothing at face value … look under bushes, turn over rocks, call out people who are just trying to live the american dream … and yet, I cannot put together any plausible explanation of who, what, why or how Kyron Horman disappeared.
I hope LE’s got more than we’ve got … but I’m not so sure of that.
I’ve been sitting on top of this fence for so long … my bottom is flat and my legs have gone numb … and I’m getting ready to slide off on the “terri must have done it, because I can’t figure out how anyone else did” side.
Gotta admit … that’s a looooong drop for me!
About the photo blowups of the man in the background of Kyron’s photo. I truly believe that Portland LE and the FBI have already done this. I’m sure they know who the man is already otherwise we would have heard by now.
That could be the case, but I respectfully disagree if it is not that LE would disclose they do not know his identity or whereabouts
B
@rollermonkey#26 I tend to agree with you but I believe DS is suspect as well and maybe someone else yet to be identified
Lea Conner posted:
“Shame on any of you who are using this post as speculation!!!! Kaine was at this event today to extend a helping hand to other families in need while also supporting the new TextNoMore App that is spreading his sons flier across the world!!!!” (posted by Ronda Williams Hall at 9:57 pm Sunday January 17, 2011.
……
Its the part about spreading his son’s flier around the world that would suggest sex trafficking to me. What other purpose is there for taking this search to another country?
Shame should not be associated with speculation. Ms. Williams must be related to the Hartleys.
When TmH posted the SF photo on FB, she tagged the one of KyH to DY and also to Michelle R0ss-Stevens. Michelle posts something about KyH daily on her FB page and seems to genuinely love him and miss him. Just wondering what the relationship is, I thought it might be noteworthy that those were the only two people she tagged to that photo, and especially not Kaine.
@enumclawrose says:
January 18, 2011 at 10:14 pm
“Legal Immigration Question
I have tried to research this question and cannot come up with a straight answer. If a person in the US is here illegally and has a child (commonly refered to as an anchor baby), who has legal custody of the child? If the child is on any form of public assistance does that make the state automatically the custodial entity for the child?”
Dear e-rose, first off, yesterday, WOW. Thanks. the connection to Holm is artful.
Second, ‘anchor baby’ is a pejorative, those babies are called US citizen neighbors by me. I wouldn’t say ‘anchor baby’ is a common term since IIRIRA (their ‘anchor’ status is functionally useless now).
To answer your question; the child still belongs to the parent! Immigration status does not determine custody. Immigration status is often a fluid thing.. someone who is illegal today can be legal tomorrow–the law is overly complex. In my case, I woke up one day and was a dual citizen; laws change.
I have personal knowledge of a woman & husband who are true ‘illegals’ (entered without inspection aka snuck over the border). They have 3 children, 2 born in the US. The middle child is developmentally disabled and receives all sorts of social service support (as a US citizen he is entitled). The parents have complete and total custody of all their children, including the US citizen youngest 2.
HTH
OT, but please, please allow posting. If you’ve never seen George Carlin’s old baseball v. football routine, Klaas has it posted under an article about CNN/political correctness at this link below. Of all the people who made me roll in the floor laughing and helped me keep my sanity, converting bitter anger into something less toxic, it was Carlin. I miss him so much.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/
9.beejay says:
January 19, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Of all the people who made me roll in the floor laughing and helped me keep my sanity, converting bitter anger into something less toxic, it was Carlin. I miss him so much.
~~~
everybody sing along now … “those were the days my friend, we thought they’d never end”
Of course.
B
puzzled says:
January 19, 2011 at 11:59 am
21.sassifrass says:
January 18, 2011 at 1:25 pm
@beejay: regarding Ubaldo “R” and Ubaldo “F”
~~~
THANKS!! great job. However …
the addresses for Ubaldo “R” do not match up with the known address of Rudy.
So …. Ubaldo “R” is an alias (for informant work, hehe) or is a “homey” or is a bro.
__________________________________________________________________
@puzzled: Yes, I was aware of that, which is the reason that I listed both. beejay, IIRC, stated that the correct Ubaldo was with an “R”, but when I checked on Ubaldo with an “F” and “R”, the Ubaldo “F” matched the 955 s pacific hwy.
Who the heck knows at this point. There are so many names flying in that area, it’s driving me bonkers.
What I would like to know is were these hate emails ever reported
to anyone or where they came from
if an adult writes they hate a child in their care it should have been
investigated and the child should have been removed
this just wasn’t right
or it WAS reported
@beejay says:
January 19, 2011 at 8:12 am
About the new Estrada business listing.. and especially in light of what you posted this morning, I consider that it’s the established company based in Sacramento CA, registering to do business in Oregon. I can’t seem to get past that, and of course there is no owner/agent information posted yet. Looks like you also think this is unrelated?
One other thing. I don’t know if or how the RS and associates are tied to Kyron going missing, but my hinky antenna is seeing something going on there with all of the name variations.
Sanchez, Estrada, Ruiz, Mejia, Hernandez, etc., etc., and on and on. It’s enough to make you take a Valium! j/k but it is frying my brain.
21.sassifrass says:
January 19, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Who the heck knows at this point. There are so many names flying in that area, it’s driving me bonkers.
~~~
I’ve asked before … are there 5 people using 15 variations of the same names or 15 people using variations of 5 names.
I gotta say … at this point … Midwest Mom had it right when she suggested RS might be an figment of our imagination …
RS has only had a business in landscape maintenance … uses the Renada address to get a POB in Canby … doesn’t mean he lives there.
He shows up … without LE escort … for a GJ appearance … and is now disappeared? He cannot be connected to anyone??? but Jamie Estrada??? who might be Elizabeth???
There is something really crazy about this!!
@sassifras
I knew you knew of the address discrepency .. lol .. driving me bonkers too. Good job of sleuthing!
@8. Puzzled. After seeing the RSO Calif killer interviews/trial excerpts on msnbc, one realized he would never have been suspected (upright middle class male) but for surveillance cameras near commercial bldgs, and his homicide victim would not have been found on the hillside but for unusual rains and flooding that winter. I don’t encourage identifying “who dun it” based on a lack of SZ “evidence.”. It would take BaTD evidence for me if only circumstantial (she’s bad) is available on TH.
sorry, typo: That’s BaR. Beyond a reas doubt..
“Rumors abound that Terri Horman’s cell phone pings led searchers to the island.(NOTE: It is my understanding that the search was based on the river’s current and projected date upon which a body would reach Sauvie Island from Vancouver. This information has since been posted elsewhere.)”
~~~
has got me thinking … I have always believed KyH was taken out of the area, immediately after leaving Skyline.
Vancouver is across the river from Portland and Sauvie Island … would have been put in “up” the river from the Vancouver side in order to “reach Sauvie Island from Vancouver.”
Thinking now … was perp from WA side? Any WA agencies involved early on?
@En.rose
LOL my bottom is flat and legs numb to
Today I feel like Terri did it but with me it’s
A mood which changes daily
We need some info
Come Feb we better get a crumb or two
@Puzzled… “I’ve been sitting on top of this fence for so long … my bottom is flat and my legs have gone numb … and I’m getting ready to slide off on the “terri must have done it, because I can’t figure out how anyone else did” side.”
I’ve been sittin’ on the fence right beside you and I’m still there. If TH is guilty I want her arrested! I can’t stop thinkin’ “what if”…what if she’s not guilty or what if she had help…either way that means there is somebody else out there that needs to be stopped, arrested, taken off the street…bullseye tattoo’d to his forehead.
If there is somebody else out there, then the danger to Skyline students and surrounding schools is very real and people should be made aware of it.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
@puzzled: you said, “everybody sing along now … “those were the days my friend, we thought they’d never end”
__________
Oh, mercy! They’ll never end for me. Can’t find my glasses or remember why I walked into a room but I can recite stuff and remember it all with crystal clear clarity. Child of the sixties, yeah. Well, ok; came of age in the sixties.
***************
And once again, about Ubaldo. Blink said, and all our people databases say that Rudy’s relative is Ubaldo R Sanchez. That’s who I’m holding out for. And his sole importance, at this time, lies in his ability to connect Rudy to Elsy and her kids.
I didn’t get into Sassi’s confusing numbering thing about Pacific Hwy. I’m still at we’ve got Elsy related to Pacific Hwy and 162nd St. Until we can get a Ubaldo R Sanchez tied to one of those, I can’t go down that research road again personally.
*******************
@evie: I’m short on time to scroll back, but do you have something of interest on the CA corp of Estrada-name fame? Got anything to connect it to Jaime, Rudy? I must’ve missed your CA-connection post.
Thinking of TH’s various e-mail addys “lewd….”, I wonder who her audience was for those. Do inmates at prison have access to e-mail, similar to postal mail? Could someone have been incarcerated and let out in May that spooked Elsy. Just a thought. I am sure she did not send e-mails to her mother and father, DY or the school using those address. I wonder if there is a site that they are connected to? I am not going to look but has anyone else been bothered by the “lewd…” address?
On my weekend hotel room TV, a “pundit” said next year’s foreign policy focus will be the criminal enterprises in Mexico spilling violence over our borders–unverified, he said 15,000 related deaths in Mexico last year. So I see why True, with Hispanic related subjects, profers “go South” anecdotally. I don’t think Kyron went South. I do think Mexico’s a hard nut to crack on a missing kid for any agency, PI, and a reward would have to be in drug profits range, and well out of Horman reach.
puzzled says:
January 19, 2011 at 2:46 pm
21.sassifrass says:
January 19, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Who the heck knows at this point. There are so many names flying in that area, it’s driving me bonkers.
~~~
I’ve asked before … are there 5 people using 15 variations of the same names or 15 people using variations of 5 names.
I gotta say … at this point … Midwest Mom had it right when she suggested RS might be an figment of our imagination …
RS has only had a business in landscape maintenance … uses the Renada address to get a POB in Canby … doesn’t mean he lives there.
He shows up … without LE escort … for a GJ appearance … and is now disappeared? He cannot be connected to anyone??? but Jamie Estrada??? who might be Elizabeth???
There is something really crazy about this!!
____________________________________________________________________
So far from what I’ve seen, Maria is the biggest user of different names.
iodizedseasalt says:
January 19, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@rollermonkey#26 I tend to agree with you but I believe DS is suspect as well and maybe someone else yet to be identified
********************************
I fully agree! Perhaps DDS didn’t begin the day planning to assist Terri with anything, but I think she did help Terri out in some degree.
We’ve heard “mention” of Terri failing polygraphs, but we don’t KNOW for sure. I think it is safe to assume she was asked to take a polygraph.
My point is simply that Terri could have taken a polygraph(s) and even if she failed portions, it would not ENSURE an arrest… LE would stil have to have PROOF of SOMETHING. If LE can’t prove Kyron was with Terri AFTER they were last seen together, and if they don’t know where Kyron is right now, they have rely on building a case the old fashion way… based on evidence… not just assumptions. I think this is why Terri hasn’t been arrested (yet)!
My thinking is that Terri probably “planned” on getting Kyron out of the house on way or another. She tried to get him to live with Desiree, but that didn’t work.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Terri was at least attempting to set Landscaper up as a suspect (I’m not defending him). Was it her white truck with a lawnmower in the back (we saw a pictures of on this site several months ago)? Was Terri trying to make it appear Landscaper was at the school the day Kyron disappeared? Did Terri call in threats or suspicious circumstances a few times prior to June 4th (e.g. Dec 09 and May 2010)just so she could say something strange had been happening prior to Kyron disappearing?
I think Terri set up a scenerio(s) to provide reasonable doubt (to be used in her defense). I think Terri had a reason (in her mind) for wanting Kyron out of the house… I think she had a very specific reason.
I think Terri knows what PROBABLY happened to Kyron.
I’m still holding on to hope for the Little Man!
34.Rose says:
January 19, 2011 at 4:02 pm
On my weekend hotel room TV, a “pundit” said next year’s foreign policy focus will be the criminal enterprises in Mexico spilling violence over our borders–
~~~
Rose … I heard the same thing … and went whoa, this can’t be good
… “It would take BaRD evidence for me if only circumstantial (she’s bad) is available on TH” …
I have always held this position … just seems like we’re run out of plausible options … IDK
beejay says:
January 19, 2011 at 3:41 pm
And once again, about Ubaldo. Blink said, and all our people databases say that Rudy’s relative is Ubaldo R Sanchez. That’s who I’m holding out for. And his sole importance, at this time, lies in his ability to connect Rudy to Elsy and her kids.
I didn’t get into Sassi’s confusing numbering thing about Pacific Hwy. I’m still at we’ve got Elsy related to Pacific Hwy and 162nd St. Until we can get a Ubaldo R Sanchez tied to one of those, I can’t go down that research road again personally.
_______________________________________________________________
I understand about your belief in Ubaldo “R” being tied to RS, and I just wanted to show you on my database Ubaldo “F” ties to that address. It’s good to have different perspectives.
As far as the addresses: I live in this area and it can be confusing. Pacific Hwy., 99E, and 213 (which turns into Canby from 99E) are all the same road. The S in 955 pacific hwy means it’s in the southbound lane. You can list your address as Ex. 955 s S pacific hwy. and 13441 pacific hwy E. The mail will still be delivered. Didn’t mean to be confusing.
@sassifrass
So far from what I’ve seen, Maria is the biggest user of different names.
~~~
really??? Maria as in Ubaldo F’s Maria …WTH?? she’s associated with several business, as well, isn’t she?
@Ode
yes I am not thrilled with the lewd addy or many other things
ESP hate mail about a child by any addy
@beejay- Yes, I agree with you wrt Van Dykes. I expressed the same and more to his parole officer. She is a very smart, nice woman, and I don’t envy her job. She knows the facts better than I do I’m sure. I like the idea of putting missing kids ads in the streetroots paper, will look into that, TY.
—————
@skyline parent & @neighbor- I just want to thank both of you for being here and helping. Your community and school has been through Hell and I’m praying for all of you.
—————
I’m teetering on the fence with many of you. I pray for some answers soon. I would hate to see this case go unsolved like some of the others I’ve studied in recent months. It is so upsetting to know that someone out there, be it TH or others, knows what happened to this innocent boy and is so selfish and evil that they won’t confess. It is just despicable, unfortunaltey nothing new as far as these types of crimes go. I watched a program about the Molly Bish case last night and it was very sad. The guy that did it was just as Blink said, one of those “sticks out like a sore thumb” things. Ugh.
Love and prayers for Kyron and all that love him, and all here at BOC fighting the good fight.
This is OT but has anyone taken Elsy’s picture and compared it to Blink’s picture of Rudy. Hairline and all, I am more of a mind that they could be brother and sister. The names are starting to make me crazy, I recite them in my sleep. I have thought lately that there may be 2 adult “Jamies” in the mix one male and one female. There could be so many layers here with uncles and aunts and so on that it would be hard to really get a fix. Address’ help but Ahhhhhh I can not google Sanchez again in any form. Companion on the poster is also weird….Could she be the mother to one and another relation to the other child. Could she be a stepmother? Why indicate a caveat in some of the missing posters that she may have left them with someone else ( not sure how they worded it ). Did she leave one somewhere and take the other. Someone linked a site that showed what may be a more recent picture of the younger child. Is he the only one with her? We need some kind of focus here. Did Blink give us a hint when she said….
BJ, while I agree in theory if in fact we were talking about your garden variety ill-equipped LEA, however, last I counted there are 4 Federal Agencies tapped in this case
If there was any evidence this was a trafficking case, it would be handled by the Feds, period
**
and for the record I am not trying to promote a theory of trafficking in any way.
My heart is still pounding an hour later and I must have gotten some more grey hairs this afternoon. I went to pickup my son from the bus stop. I watched the bus come and drop off the kids. Usualy my child is the one of the first kids off the bus. I waited and waited and then the bus driver closed the door and pulled away from the curb. I gave him a look like “where in the hell is my child” as he drove past me.
The sheet level of panick that came over me when my child didn’t get off the bus. I drove like a mad woman to his school. I was so panicked I didn’t even take the time to put my ear piece on as I called the school to find out where my child was. I didn’t even care that I passed a police car as I was on my cell phone. All that matter was getting to the school.
My child had thought I was picked him up from school today when in fact I told him it would be tomorrow that I would be picking him up.
Thoughts of Kyron went flashing through my mind as I drove 3 miles to my child’s school. Thank goodness he was okay. And I am okay…just thankful. To experience this same panic that KH experienced……I am blessed that my son is okay. However there is still another little boy out there that needs to be found.
Please tell me …Is there PROOF, KYRON did not leave with TERRI,if so
what is it? I DO not believe there is any real crediable wittness that saw TH leave.
Ya’all do such good work on here…I hope LE reads it.
There are credible witnesses that saw Terri Leave.
She left without Kyron, I have no idea why that is so difficult to process for some.
B
puzzled says:
January 19, 2011 at 4:29 pm
@sassifrass
So far from what I’ve seen, Maria is the biggest user of different names.
~~~
really??? Maria as in Ubaldo F’s Maria …WTH?? she’s associated with several business, as well, isn’t she?
______________________________________________________________
Maria G is associated with at least 4 names so far. Still going through the list. I’ll do the businesses next.
These people change their middle /surnames at a blink of an eye. They’re not just tied to Landscaping businesses. They’re also tied to trucking businesses.
My feeling is that they go from one business, cancel it, and start up a new business.
back to first weekend’s reports of FBI profiler of Kyron. What made him vulnerable? (I submit authoritarian parenting styles factor in.) What “hook” would he be vulnerable to? Who was in position in the bldg to cast that line?
I don’t think he’d “bite” for an hispanic landscaper ( not high enough status). I think it would be for a male of father’s or Tony’s age, whom Kyron perceived as having some expertise, or reason for respect.
@beejay says:
January 19, 2011 at 3:41 pm
“do you have something of interest on the CA corp of Estrada-name fame? Got anything to connect it to Jaime, Rudy? I must’ve missed your CA-connection post.”
No, no quite contraire.. there is a company in Sacto with the exact name that is an IT consulting firm. Like a legitimate one. I think it’s the same company, registering to do biz in OR. I think it has NO RS/ES/et al connection. It is a non-issue to me. Like you said, sometimes a John Smith is just a John Smith.
Or something like that.
Also a non-starter is the idea of anything being put in the water near or above Vancouver Washington and thinking it is going to make it into the Multnomah Channel. It’s physically impossible and searches were never done on the beaches on the appropriate side of Sauvie. There -were- a couple of looks at Kelly Point Park which is only marginally plausible. I don’t know why that was brought up again.
beejay, while you are here, I applaud everything you have been able to turn up here locally. I feel very guilty for having that information (stuff like Street Roots) and not contributing it here. Except that this isn’t an appropriate forum for that sort of ‘work’ .. I don’t know, I just want you to know that it reads as if you’ve got a pretty darn good feel for things here so I want to applaud you.
sassifrass says:
January 19, 2011 at 4:28 pm
As far as the addresses: I live in this area and it can be confusing. Pacific Hwy., 99E, and 213 (which turns into Canby from 99E) are all the same road. The S in 955 pacific hwy means it’s in the southbound lane. You can list your address as Ex. 955 s S pacific hwy. and 13441 pacific hwy E. The mail will still be delivered. Didn’t mean to be confusing.
*********************************************************************************
@ sassifrass.
Thanks for explaining this.
I used to live in a house that officially had (2) different street addresses much like you’ve described.
The home I was living in was right on the line between city limits/county … and that same house actually had (2) addresses on (2) differently named streets too.
Things got kinda hairy when I would call agencies to talk to about things like my water/garbage services, electric bill, who covered my home for emergency services.
One would have my homes physical address on one street – and another agency had the same house on a totally different street.
Really screwed up the pizza delivery dude too!
Wow … we’re close to 6,000 posts in reply to this latest Kyron piece from Blink.
Where are you little man?
43.TBZ says:
January 19, 2011 at 6:32 pm
My heart is still pounding an hour later and I must have gotten some more grey hairs this afternoon. I went to pickup my son from the bus stop. I watched the bus come and drop off the kids. Usualy my child is the one of the first kids off the bus. I waited and waited and then the bus driver closed the door and pulled away from the curb. I gave him a look like “where in the hell is my child” as he drove past me.
*****
This happened to me years ago. I can still remember the world going black around me. I found she was still at school, my mistake, but it still was like drowning in a sea of darkness. I will never forget the feeling. I can not imagine how Kyron’s loved ones survived this. God bless them.
@ Blink yeah your right. I guess I’m kind of baffled and wish something would break already.
@ sassifrass says:
January 19, 2011 at 4:28 pm
_______________
I know. You are on the same exact page as me, and everybody else now. It’s ONLY Ubaldo F. Sanchez who ties to the 2 addys we can pinpoint Elsy at (Pacific Hwy. and 162nd). And F is not the relative of Rudy; that’s Ubaldo R Sanchez (per all the databases and per Blink). So, essentially, it does not matter where Ubaldo F lives. (Unless, of course, Ubaldo F is also a relative of Rudy’s! Or, Ubaldo F is identical with Ubaldo R). We want R; we want R!
The street addy for Rudy is on Renada.
***************
@evie: TY. And we’re in agreement on the corp. BTW, I assume some readers here do some “work” that is not sanctioned by BOC. And not often posted here. Sometimes I run across things, or they come up in my current thinking, and I like to share resources in case someone might, for whatever reason, find them interesting, ya know? Blink usually calls me on it when I go too far in my posts.
********************
I almost hate to bring it up, but did anybody go to my link from earlier today and look at the video? Linnton Comm Ctr is about 5 miles from Skyline K8. And in some years previously, ran the onsite daycare at Skyline. You might want to look at the burglar who was caught on camera there May 18, 2010.
http://www.kptv.com/news/23601409/detail.html
I still don’t like it; maybe even more so now that I see it was May 18. “personal info” was taken.
DEB1948 says:
January 19, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Please tell me …Is there PROOF, KYRON did not leave with TERRI,if so
what is it? I DO not believe there is any real crediable wittness that saw TH leave.
Ya’all do such good work on here…I hope LE reads it.
There are credible witnesses that saw Terri Leave.
She left without Kyron, I have no idea why that is so difficult to process for some.
B
*********************
Okay-this is a real long stretch, but after reading Deb1948′s post and Blink’s response, this came to my mind and I apologize in advance for going out on the crazy limb!
My entire post below is all my own creation and ramblings of what I think could have happened:
Is there any chance that someone wanted to screw TH up so bad that they somehow got Kyron into an area of the school that was private-killed him-put him into a container of some sort-put that container into TH’s truck and then left the area. I am picturing at least two people to pull that off, one as a lookout, one to do the dirty work.
That would leave TH exiting the school with Kiara, (but without Kyron, per witnesses). At that point in time she would have NO idea that Kyron was in a container in her vehicle. This would also explain why LE was looking for witnesses that may have seen anyone in or around the Horman truck.
TH would then get in her truck and leave the vicinity of Skyline school. She may have found the container with Kyron in it at any of her stops as she did errands, or even as she was buckling Kiara in her carseat. The container may even have been in the back of the truck.
So at some point she does find the container and realizes that Kyron has been killed and left for her to take the blame. She would know who was capable of this act and would also know that she had to cover it up somehow-or she was going down for it. The excuse she used about driving back roads to get Kiara to go to sleep, may have been because she was driving around trying to find help that would not involve LE.
Yes, most sane people would immediately go to the police, but TH may not have that sanity thing going for her-or was scared that she was about to be next in line for a killer.
There could have even been a note like this: “We have killed your stepson, you knew you owed us and we told you we would get you, have fun getting out of this without going to prison”
So maybe that is when she got DDS or someone else to help her and began the drive around the back roads to dispose of him before she was caught with a child she had nothing to do with actually killing.
We all read the rumors early on that TH had the truck washed and maybe detailed that day. Also, LE towed it twice that we know of to check it out (starter troubles I highly doubt!)
Or maybe she called a friend/acquaintance she knew from her bodybuilding days, or from any unscrupulous place she may have frequented and asked that friend to dispose of the body. Then she would not even know where Kyron is, but would know who helped her, and would have to protect that person too.
If this actually happened, she would be double screwed-she could not rat out the person who helped her dispose of Kyron, and she could not rat out the person who killed Kyron as she would be next in line if she tells on him/her.
I know this sounds like something out of a crazy story-but I am grasping for straws to try and figure out any possible ways this could have gone down that we haven’t come up with yet.
TH would be protecting her own butt in this situation, and is at fault for not telling the truth about what really occurred, and not getting justice for Kyron.
This would be a real double edged sword-TH would feel innocent as she did nothing to harm Kyron herself and would try to convince herself she did the “right thing” by saving herself and potentially the rest of her family from any further harm by the bad guys. Of course she would be at fault for covering up a crime against a child-but she may be nutty enough to have convinced herself that the way she handled it, was the only way she could have.
JMO, and crazy thoughts for today……and start throwing stuff in 10, 9, 8, 7….
PS-I am not trying to make it look as if TH is innocent-just going where I think we haven’t gone yet, and trying to come up with a somewhat plausible scenario. Bad guys could still be anyone (RS, AS-S, thugs she owed money to, etc., etc.)
@DEB1948 says:
January 19, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Please tell me …Is there PROOF, KYRON did not leave with TERRI,if so
what is it? I DO not believe there is any real crediable wittness that saw TH leave.
Ya’all do such good work on here…I hope LE reads it.
There are credible witnesses that saw Terri Leave.
She left without Kyron, I have no idea why that is so difficult to process for some.
B
————————————————–
We have read many times that credible witnesses saw Terri leave without Kyron. More explicitly I ask: “Did any credible witness or witnesses see Terri leave the school grounds without Kyron in the truck?”
I am not going to discuss sensitive case information specifics. If we know Kyron did not leave with her, than we know he was not in the truck.
B