Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Related Posts
Related Posts:
6,473 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Kaine said: We can put what happened to us back together after Kyron is found.
That spoke volumes to me – B
Blink, which relationship do you think Kaine referring to when he said this?
@beejay: interesting provocation about the county meeting. While reviewing the agenda for the next meeting, one item stuck out:
SHERIFF’S OFFICE – 10:15 am – TIME CERTAIN
R-5 PUBLIC HEARING to recommend Denial of OLCC License Applicants (30 min) R-5.2 Bottoms Up Tavern – REVISED – Recommend Favorable
This tavern has been named in the Horman case rumor mill frequently. The new owner seems to have had a server training problem.
——————————
@Lea, yeah, thanks for the detailed clarification. I didn’t think we needed to include children born to diplomats in our discussion here. Unless you are now trying to redirect us in some way regarding this case? Is that the big dark secret no one wants to talk about? Someone on a dip visa snatched Kyron?
lyla says:
January 20, 2011 at 7:35 pm
Wasn’t it the GroundsKeeper who left for Mexico shortly after Ky disappeared or am I mistaken?
**************************************************************************
@ lyla.
That’s the story as I heard it too.
That Stensen had left for Mexico soon afterwards.
Anytime I’ve seen his name + his timely trip out of the country mentioned by anyone …
it never seems to go anywhere.
I don’t mean here at BOC – but I try to read at as many outlets as possible for any info about Kyron I can find – and when Stensen’s name comes up, and the discussion never really gets off the ground.
Always seems to be dismissed quickly with something along the lines of … “He’s a local man who had this trip to Mexico planned way before this happened.”
Stensen’s account of timeline changed for 6/4.
Trip south of the border right after this child drops off the face of the world.
I don’t know … just always seemed worth checking out to me.
beejay says:
January 20, 2011 at 8:00 am
Dan Staton is supposed to be presenting a report on Ky’s case to County Commissioners by Feb 1. Are locals talking to their county commissioners?
Planning to be present at their meeting site to indicate interest?
There is a slot for an approved citizen to address the board for 3 minutes prior to their meeting; anyone planning to go and ask any questions on their minds?
Because where I’m from, citizen involvement makes a huge difference with elected officials. And we don’t like being patted on the head and told it’s all being taken care of.
(snip)
footnote: last year, where I live, whole families showed up at the courthouse and peacefully assembled for a 7 pm county commissioners meeting. In the hallways, and out the doors on the sidewalks, spelling each other for bathroom breaks in nearby restaurants. The meeting ended at 2 am. Voters have never been ignored since that. It was VERY well understood by elected officials.
***********************************************************************
@ beejay.
Can I tell ya how much I LOVED this message from you?!!
I snipped a bit for space in my reply … but your entire message is so, so important.
I hope that PDX community members will be there Feb 1st and show their expectations of answers in this case by their bodies being there filling the seats!
(not case sensitive details of course – but where is this case? Do other PDX parents need to be worried more about sending their most loved little people out the door in the morning?)
You are right on with … “citizen involvement makes a huge difference with elected officials”.
Those commissioners, Dan Stanton, and DA Schrunk NEED to look up from their spot on the podium and see their constituents faces right there in front of them – expecting more than a pat on the head and a “don’t you worry -this is all being taken care of”.
I gotta say too – that “where I’m from” sounds very much as you described your town.
For those that can’t attend, our city hall + county commission meetings are routinely re-broadcast on TV (local access channels) all week following any committee meeting … and we do watch them to see what happened that week + to see what the people we put in office are doing.
For reasons beyond my control, I’m currently living 1,000+ miles away from that wonderful community.
One more year and I can move back to my beloved hometown – I appreciate the community activism even more now that I see that not every town/city is as fortunate.
I was reading this article this morning on Portland schools (link below) and it had me musing…
I’ve seen some shocking news in my area when a “higher up” in any public agency is arrested for an “ick” crime. Years ago, a person who worked for the Dept. of Social Services in the county west of mine did something sexual and so disgusting in his office — targeting female employees — that I can’t even write about it. It was that gross. No clue that there was an investigation, and no clue that the crime had even been reported in the first place. We just woke up one morning in the late 80′s and BAM — the story of the arrest was the headline. Then we all threw up. A DSS person was fired and immediately arrested, and his victims needed counseling. It was not rape. Sorry for being vague, but my point was not to make myself sick again by giving the details of the incident, but to point out that sometimes total silence from LE surrounds a crime when a person “up the food chain” is the culprit.
That being said, I keep thinking that LE in the Kyron case is silent because they have a “SZ” profile that indicates the person who abducted our little guy is a VIP of sorts.
The garden-variety scumbag pedophile is not a person who always acts out with a talent for evading detection. A smooth talking SDIP — Super Duper Important Person, as we say around here — can generate the need by LE to clam up. For many reasons. One of them being that the individual is highly educated, extremely slick, has a powerful job, and has used that power.
Also, there is associated with that “higher grade” creep the fact that other people are just terrified to tell what they know.
In Kyron’s case, are we looking at a man who has a lot of clout, and has recently faded from public life — a person who has resigned a “important” job? Someone with “connections?”
Ack, forgot my link!
http://www.pressherald.com/news/cost-cutting-pays-of-f-for-schools-city_2010-12-18.html
This article got me thinking — is someone with the school district in a very high ranking position being eyeballed for Kyron’s disappearance? If cost cutting is the goal of the district, financial motivations can create angry people who do terrible things.
justice23 says:
January 20, 2011 at 9:25 am
Just an FYI … when child care workers themselves are abusing the kids on their watch, it’s definitely time to start putting bleach into the gene pool, don’t ya’ll think? How truly sad. I hope this woman gets the book thrown at her!
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Portland-child-care-worker-faces-21-sex-abuse/s-CiXZhIRkGaN9qBKQRHww.cspx
———————————-
Does anyone know if TH and/or KH left KY in the gym day care when they worked out? I know that TH was looking for Kiara in the gym day care when the manager of the gym called LE on her. I think maybe it could be possible that SZ spotted KY while he was in the gym daycare.JMO
I read that KH belonged to Xtreme Edge Fitness, in most stories I have read it refers to TH belonging to 24 hour fitness. There was a news report that showed TH leaving a gym with KH, either KH had 2 gym memberships(24 hour fitness and Xtreme Edge Fitness) or TH had 2 memberships or TH and KH both had 2 gym memberships. TH was looking for Kiara in the day care of Xtreme Edge Fitness when the manager called the police on her.
JMO That could be 2 sets of gym day care workers that KY might have been exposed to.
You know I fully support the skepticism when I am not at liberty to disclose a source, in fact I encourage it.
The best way for me to answer that is this:
Does it make sense to you, if LE could put Kyron in the truck with TH in any capacity whatsoever, by any means, prior to her departing the Skyline School, that she has not been arrested long ago?
I would venture to say, that pat of the LDT, she passed-
B
Blink – I hear what you are saying. There are no witnesses who saw Kyron leave in TH’s truck. Of course if there were, she would certainly be arrested!
But saying no one saw Kyron leave with TH in the truck just tells us no one saw Kyron leave with TH in the truck. That claim does not say that Kyron did not leave with TH in the truck. No one saw Kyron leave the school building, which should be much more alarming than him not being seen in a big, tall truck.
Based on the information I have, which I realize is nothing compared to what you have, it is possible that Kyron left the area in Kaine’s truck driven by TH or the supposed person lurking around the proximity of the truck. Until, I have facts which support otherwise, I cannot ignore this possibility.
As far as the LDT, she may have failed the part about Kyron leaving with her horribly, but without any other evidence, that failure is worthless to LE and the DA.
I still think and hope TH’s time is up close to 2/1/11. I think the task force and the three extra budgeted months were to build the best possible case based on circumstantial evidence. I’m sure they hoped for a break, but it is what it is and the people of Oregon will decide.
What’d I miss? It’s been a while… Did you guys hear today that a woman who was kidnapped 23 years ago came home? Yep! She actually found her own picture on the missing kids site. How awesome! Made me think of Kyron and I hope that one day he will return.
I hope all you blinkers are doing well. Wish I had the time to keep up with comments, but work prevails…and there has really, at least from where I sit, been really no “news” whatsoever in weeks —Am hoping for a break in this case this next month -the dreaded February deadline that MCSO set. And I certainly hope that all your hard sleuthing/work is helping to bring Master Ky home. Hang in there all, and God Bless.
I just sat down and Google, Manhattan, missing children. Because it has appeared to me that KH has a knack of knowing things that are going to happen before they happen. I had posted, at his last press interview in Nov. he mentioned a couple of things that stood out to me. 1) they would be searching SI for 2 months or until they find “something” 2)manhattan 3)2 months.
It has been two months so I have been searching to see any connection two Manhattan. Since he was just at the textnomore trafficking conference and I was thinking that was it, however could not find any connection to manhattan or a man in a tan hat. LOL
Just now I found the information on the woman that was kidnapped as an infant
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/alive_and_well_after_years_csPmfEkVeUXYgRUTbYbyLL/0
an amazing story of never giving up hope. There seems to be a lot of the story remains unanswered.
@ evie says:
January 20, 2011 at 9:00 pm
_______________
Yes, evie, I saw that. And what could be relevant (or NOT) to Ky’s case is that a liquor license represents a HUGE hold over a place like Bottoms Up. If LE wants to get some info or cooperation out of someone around here, they threaten their liquor license.
MCSO named 4 diff. aspects of compliance that affect a liquor license. They had a past problem with tax payments (isn’t that how LE gets at people they can’t otherwise get at???) Good to know Bottoms Up has fully cooperated with MCSO in whatever areas they needed to.
All just grist for the mill, and I’m sure the good people at Bottoms Up aren’t up to anything shady. Nice place; you should all hang out there awhile. Locals can add to that.
Here’s Staton’s original recommendation and then his revised one re the Bottoms Up OLCC (liquor license). Oh, they apparently have some off-premises operations too–catering events? Sounds like fun.
http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/WeeklyAgendaPacket/R-5_PUBLIC HEARINGS_OLCC Liquor Lic/R-5-2_Bottoms Up/Bottoms Up – Recommendations Ltr (noncompliant).pdf
http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/WeeklyAgendaPacket/R-5_PUBLIC HEARINGS_OLCC Liquor Lic/R-5-2_Bottoms Up/BottomsUp-SheriffRevRecFavorable.pdf
@ Sammy says:
January 20, 2011 at 10:43 pm
___________
Glad we’re on the same page as to citizen impact. BTW, I do believe that non-Multnomah County residents could be present at such meetings as well. And since criminals do travel, people other than those immediately surrounding Skyline K8 might have real interests in those Commissioner meetings as well.
Enumclawrose~ The Sanchez/Estrada web has one more tangle w/ the “Tweet” name.
Robert L Tweet died. Leaving his estate in trust. The trust SOLD the Renada St house 11/06/2006, $329,000.00
Now per Clackamas Co Assessment & Taxation, the house was bought by: Octaviano A Gomez & Octaviano Angel-Gomez. (Yes, I spoke to CCAT)
The CCAT staffer was a bit concerned w/ the “names” but looked @ other docs to verify.
Not only were the names correct but records show ALL mail from CC is sent to Renada St addy.
(As if the ‘home buyers’ live in the home)
This house is a 4bd 3ba, 3,096sq ft on a 100′x100′ lot.
Now as we all know these “names” have never “shown” on any of the searches.
I have gone around & around w/ my limited knowledge/skill of sleuthing “name”.
I have “found” “A-G. O” in Canby w/ a lot of names combos.
Now I know we have all discussed how Hispanic names get “turned” around.
Except CCAT were very firm HOW the names were on docs.
To me @ least, this shows “another” layer of “hinky” w/ the occupants of Renada St house.
I lean now towards the elder Tweet woman NOT living there anymore.
But we all know there are far to little in Ky’s case that is “solid” info/ facts.
JMHO … To infinity & beyond FOR Kyron … FOR Desiree.
Oh–Sammy. I’m not sure that Feb 1 is the date Staton will actually be before the Commissioners. Locals would need to check with the Commission for relevant dates. Website links are at my
My bad. Continuing previous post. Mult Cty Commissioners website is here:
http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/cc/
Other links are at my post of Jan 20 at 8:00am.
Staton’s Task Force progress report is due to Commissioners on or before Feb. 1. Don’t know when they will meet regarding it.
Portland media needs to get on this pretty soon. And, anybody attending a party should always invite the media–good manners.
@Kimberly
wondering .. is this comment from B a re-post on your part or is this new from B and was not bolded?
I would like to point out that although I generated the piece suggesting that cell pings were being used to generate the request for traffic video and thus led to the search on Sauvie- I never said they were Terri’s, that to my knowledge is from “un-named sources.”
B
Because if this is a new comment from B … it may mean the pings are not true or relevant. Again, LE knows from the GPS system in TH’s phone, where she was that day. Including if she backtracked to Skyline.
S. says,
Blink – I hear what you are saying. There are no witnesses who saw Kyron leave in TH’s truck. Of course if there were, she would certainly be arrested!
But saying no one saw Kyron leave with TH in the truck just tells us no one saw Kyron leave with TH in the truck. That claim does not say that Kyron did not leave with TH in the truck. No one saw Kyron leave the school building, which should be much more alarming than him not being seen in a big, tall truck.
—————–
I totally agree. No one saw Ky leave with anyone in any vehicle or this whole thing would be put to rest. But, Ky did leave, with someone, and in a vehicle (if we are to believe the dogs that lost the scent at the parking lot). So there remains a certain amount of doubt in my mind that Ky in fact did not leave with TH. Only thing I am 100% conviced of is that no one saw Ky leave. At all. Which brings us back to how the heck do you disappear a kid in front of a whole school community. Maybe you subdue the child and then wait until the entire school is at an assembly, like a talent show, and then you sneak him out. Little chance of being seen. What time was the talent show? Any one know if it was before noon.
A follow-up in KATU today about the POS woman (Inez Lambert) that worked at LA Fitness in Portland who was arrested for child porn.
Sodomy of a 1 y/o baby. FTLOG!!
(that she emailed and skyped LIVE to her BF in Afghanistan)
KATU asked what the laws were about childcare in fitness clubs/gyms. (background checks required?)
Both LA Fitness and 24 hour Fitness say they do run background checks on people that work in their childcare settings.
BUT … (the following from the KATU article)
“It turns out that daycare facilities that operate out of gyms are exempt from the laws that govern other childcare facilities in Oregon. Gyms do not even have to be on record as having a childcare area because parents remain on the premises while they are engaging in an activity offered by the facility. That means whatever gyms do to clear their employees to work with kids goes beyond what the law requires.”
http://northeastportland.katu.com/content/how-safe-are-your-kids-gyms-daycare
I would find it inconceivable that the franchise office would not require background checks of all employees.
B
Patricia says:
January 21, 2011 at 11:53 am
Which brings us back to how the heck do you disappear a kid in front of a whole school?
Maybe you subdue the child and then wait until the entire school is at an assembly, like a talent show, and then you sneak him out. Little chance of being seen.
What time was the talent show? Any one know if it was before noon.
*************************************************************************
@ patricia.
I’ve heard that the talent show was set for the afternoon at Skyline (1 or 1:30 pm).
Reported that the talent show was designed to be for an audience of Skyline students, teachers, and staff. (not intended for parents or others to be there at that time.)
Interesting thoughts about this being an possible opportune time to disappear unnoticed.
hmmm.
This is a snip from a statement by DS to KATU reporter.
“It seemed like just a pretty normal day,” he said. “It was kind of damp and wet. It had been wet for a while and the fields were hard to mow. (I) noticed that there was some children that came out the back door, and I thought, ‘please don’t come down and play soccer.’ But they came out and looked at some plants that were in the raised bed.”
These are Portland in Pictures photos from “HollGsMom” taken on June 27th. There are several photos she took from inside the school and outside the school. I have a screen capture of all if anyone wants to put this together. All the photos she took disappared from the website RadioNewz.
“From the soccer field
This is critical. This is taken from the soccer field area looking toward Skyline Blvd. The fence ends, and there is a narrow access road that leads to the street. There is NO FENCE to prevent students from exiting the soccer field down to the road, and the slope and tall grass makes it nearly impossible to view a child walking down here from the school.”
http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/SkylineSchool030.jpg
“Skyline School
View of school from the soccer field. Note how far down it is and how well hidden this spot is from the door.”
http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/SkylineSchool027.jpg
Screen Capture of all photos (Ihope this works)
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NJliatZSkjIJ:forums.radionewz.net/index.php%3Faction%3Dprintpage%3Btopic%3D151.0+portland+in+pictures+hollysGmom+skyline+school&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I’ve viewed all the pics…the impression I get is that a child could have easily left without being seen.
An interesting statement made w/ regard to child abductions …
Experts on missing children said …
that often kidnapped children & their abductors BLEND EASILY INTO SOCIETY.
I see this is exactly how Ky would be in plain sight– leaving w/o anyone noticing.
JMHO … To infinity & beyond FOR Kyron … FOR Desiree
@Patricia says:
January 21, 2011 at 11:53 am
S. says,
Blink – I hear what you are saying. There are no witnesses who saw Kyron leave in TH’s truck. Of course if there were, she would certainly be arrested!
But saying no one saw Kyron leave with TH in the truck just tells us no one saw Kyron leave with TH in the truck. That claim does not say that Kyron did not leave with TH in the truck. No one saw Kyron leave the school building, which should be much more alarming than him not being seen in a big, tall truck.
—————–
I totally agree. No one saw Ky leave with anyone in any vehicle or this whole thing would be put to rest. But, Ky did leave, with someone, and in a vehicle (if we are to believe the dogs that lost the scent at the parking lot). So there remains a certain amount of doubt in my mind that Ky in fact did not leave with TH. Only thing I am 100% conviced of is that no one saw Ky leave. At all. Which brings us back to how the heck do you disappear a kid in front of a whole school community. Maybe you subdue the child and then wait until the entire school is at an assembly, like a talent show, and then you sneak him out. Little chance of being seen. What time was the talent show? Any one know if it was before noon.
———————————————-
I believe the talent show was at 1:00pm. It is my understanding no one expected Ky to be there because of the Dr. Appt. confusion. If you go back over this whole case and take TH entirely out of the picture, Ky’s disappearance would not have been an isolated incident and an amber alert hopefully would have been issued and the case would have gone in a different direction. Instead, Ky’s disappearance was “staged” and well carried out, but by whom?
Amber Alerts must follow very specific criteria. There is a lot of controversy about it, and I agree it needs revision, but Kyron’s disappearance would have not to include visual confirmation he was removed from the school to qualify.
B
I believe Blink about Ky not leaving the school bldg. with Terri, but also believe those who talk about that not necessarily being the case about him leaving with her in the truck. As to how he left without being seen….how about this scenerio. Ky wore the CSI shirt. It has been mentioned on this blog that Terri was seen hiding under a staircase. Could she have been playing a game with Ky? Maybe making up a story about going to find a frog. Fooling his teacher. Terri would sneak out first and then in a little bit, he could sneak out and make sure no one saw him?
On a blog mostly trying to find ‘facts’ I hate to put another scenerio out there, but, other than thinking Terri’s main concern (IF she took Kyron) would be getting rid of him. The first thought that went through my head was that she would take him out to the woods, either drug him or hit him in the head with a shovel and throw him in a hole. Then she would call a friend. Someone that would do just about anything for her. She would say that an awful thing happened. “Ky fell in a hole while looking for a frog and I don’t think he is breathing.” The friend urgently meets up with her and finds he is not alive. Then she is sucked in to helping out her friend. Terri may have told her that no one would believe she didn’t hurt him because she had said some pretty bad things on facebook when she was mad at him. JMHO.
I do believe Rollermonkey, also. That Rudy may have been set up by Terri.
I hate to think about anything horrible happening to Ky at all. But it did. Just being taken away from his family was horrible in itself even if (best scenerio) he is in good loving hands and someone is taking very good care of him. (I so pray for this to be true)
All of this is my own thinking.
Rollermonkey and S have put together my most current thoughts. I had been thinking the same things.
Prayers for Kyron, his brothers, sister, parents and all of us that love him.
There is no staircase to hide under.
B
21.puzzled says:
January 21, 2011 at 11:51 am
@Kimberly
wondering .. is this comment from B a re-post on your part or is this new from B and was not bolded?
I would like to point out that although I generated the piece suggesting that cell pings were being used to generate the request for traffic video and thus led to the search on Sauvie- I never said they were Terri’s, that to my knowledge is from “un-named sources.”
B
Because if this is a new comment from B … it may mean the pings are not true or relevant. Again, LE knows from the GPS system in TH’s phone, where she was that day. Including if she backtracked to Skyline
***************************************
Older, back in some of her comments she made on other threads.
22.Patricia says:
January 21, 2011 at 11:53 am
S. says,
Blink – I hear what you are saying. There are no witnesses who saw Kyron leave in TH’s truck. Of course if there were, she would certainly be arrested!
But saying no one saw Kyron leave with TH in the truck just tells us no one saw Kyron leave with TH in the truck. That claim does not say that Kyron did not leave with TH in the truck. No one saw Kyron leave the school building, which should be much more alarming than him not being seen in a big, tall truck.
—————–
I totally agree. No one saw Ky leave with anyone in any vehicle or this whole thing would be put to rest. But, Ky did leave, with someone, and in a vehicle (if we are to believe the dogs that lost the scent at the parking lot). So there remains a certain amount of doubt in my mind that Ky in fact did not leave with TH. Only thing I am 100% conviced of is that no one saw Ky leave. At all. Which brings us back to how the heck do you disappear a kid in front of a whole school community. Maybe you subdue the child and then wait until the entire school is at an assembly, like a talent show, and then you sneak him out. Little chance of being seen. What time was the talent show? Any one know if it was before noon.
********************************************
I respectfully disagree.
I believe that in every capacity possible and verbage
Blink has told us , He did not leave with TH!
I believe it does’t need to be anaylized more than that
and that just because Blink can’t or hasn’t elaborated to
the capacity we all may want, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be
thankful that she has in fact provided us all with one direct
answer,
HE DID NOT LEAVE WITH TH!
I think people are concerned, that the possibility that Ky left with someone other than her, lets her off the hook in some way, or at least they fear it will.
The likelihood of this tragedy occurring without any indirect or direct involvement from TH is slim to none.
I do not know what her level of complicity is, nor could I prove today that she actually has one, but there are far too many unexplained actions and behaviors on her part, over an extended period of time as well as immediately preceding and following Kyron’s disappearance to lead me to any other conclusion.
That does not mean that I think she knows anything about Kyron’s location. She may simply have lit the dynamite from another atmosphere and simply just knows only that much.
That said, if you believe nothing else I ever tell you, believe that LE knows beyond a doubt that Kyron did not leave the school with TH on June 4th in any conceivable or inconceivable fashion.
B
Talent show was at 1
Supposedly, they called Kyron’s name to participate
Cat Villareal, life partner of Kim Holm, may have sometimes used Holm as his last name.
Kim Holm may have used the name Kevin Holm as an alias name. Or, there might actually be a Kevin Holm. But how odd to have it appear in a couple of places as an alias name. IDK.
These listings are from veromi, resulting for my name search for Kevin Holm:
Holm, Kimberely
Possible Aka’s:
HOLM, KEVIN
HOLM, KIMBERLY
HOLM, KIM A
HOLM, KIM L
51 Aloha, OR
Portland, OR
Packwood, WA
[relatives:]
Villarreal, Catarino Floyd
Holm, Kevin
___________
ANOTHER LISTING JUST BELOW THAT ONE:
Villarreal, Kimberly
Possible Aka’s:
HOLM, KEVIN
HOLM, KIMBERELY
HOLM, KIM A
HOLM, KIMBERLY ANN
50 Beaverton, OR
Portland, OR
Auburn, WA
Packwood, WA
[relatives:]
Holm, Larry D
Holm, Catarino F
Villarreal, Cat F
Holm, Kandice Louise
Villarreal, Jr catarin F
Dallamura, Janet E
Villarreal, Catarino
link:
http://www.veromi.com/Search.aspx?sType=name&db=&fn=kevin&mn=&ln=holm&city=&state=WA&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=
*******************************
Since they weren’t married, maybe they alternated which last name they gave their kids?
Yes, who asked? There is a child younger than Kurtis; boy age 5, IIRC.
Another perv – at a church – and a registered sex offender @ the time.
Forest Grove sex offender admits rape and sex abuse involving two teen girls
“Michael Floyd Frick of Forest Grove met the girls through a homeless shelter at Bible Way Church, which was located in Hillsboro … Frick, who earned prior sex abuse convictions in juvenile court, was a registered sex offender at the time.
http://www.oregonlive.com/forest-grove/index.ssf/2011/01/forest_grove_sex_offender_admits_rape_and_sex_abuse_with_two_teen_girls.html
River, Great work! I agree, that the Tweet’s are probably not connected to the Sanchez-Estrada’s, too. Just wierd about the Holm connection. Thanks to your work, we can connect RS’s family to the Angel-Gomez family. At the very least as landlord/tenant and as you say with the owner’s mail going directly to that house, most likely a deeper relationship.
14.River says:
January 21, 2011 at 9:58 am
snip> Enumclawrose~ The Sanchez/Estrada web has one more tangle w/ the “Tweet” name.
Robert L Tweet died. Leaving his estate in trust. The trust SOLD the Renada St house 11/06/2006, $329,000.00
Now per Clackamas Co Assessment & Taxation, the house was bought by: Octaviano A Gomez & Octaviano Angel-Gomez. (Yes, I spoke to CCAT)
IF you have never read/heard about the Bulgarian national (man) who STOLE the identity of a 1982 kidnapped & murdered child from Ohio, I have posted some links.(Check @ the bottom part of article & click on additional articles)
The man, who for 14 yrs has used the little boy’s identity, 8 years became an EMPLOYEE of the State of Oregon Liquor Control Commission (climbed thru the ranks as an inspector, regional manager & investigator).
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/05/_mystery_remains_around_olcc_i.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/05/from_jason_evers_family_outrag.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/05/krasev_mentor_michael_horowitz.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/mystery_man_doitchin_krasevs_j.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/ohio_denies_parole_to_killer_o.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/former_john_doe_suspect_wants.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/john_doe_aka_doitchin_krasev_w.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/bulgarian_who_took_name_of_dea.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/governments_former_mystery_man.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/family_of_murdered_ohio_boy_ex.html
I think LE might already have SZ in custody, but they are still trying to draw a line from SZ –> TH –> the MFH.
It is suspicious that an MFH is planned in 2009 and then a child of the intended MFH victim is abducted in 2010. Also LE was very public in their theory that TH committed or was involved in KY’s abduction. Even though LE did not say anything themselves about TH being their suspect they did have the parents saying plenty. JMO
Blink: Is there ANY chance that Rodolfo(Rudy)Sanchez is and was on June 4, 2010 imprisoned (unrelated to Ky)? And that the man whose picture you posted, and who has been operating RS Landscape Maintenance is in fact Octaviano Angel-Gomez?
Bad marriage, Kaine hurt her, landscaper working on their property, she may have tried to hire other people….
On June 26th, the landscaper, who is cooperating with authorities and was wearing a wire, met with Terri and an undercover officer. Police were prepared to arrest her if she implicated herself but Terri cut the conversation short.
Later that day, Kaine was told that she had plotted against him and took their 19-month-old daughter and moved out.
The source told KGW that Terri approached a landscaper who had been working on their property in Northwest Portland and asked him if he would kill her husband for “a large sum of money.”
More: Plot revealed against Kaine
Kaine Horman learned of the plot from investigators who said she may have tried to hire other people, too, according to sources familiar with the conversation. Terri said she was in a bad marriage and claimed that Kaine had “hurt” her, according to the sources.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html
I’ve had to reasses all of my assumptions … but I will go with this:
That said, if you believe nothing else I ever tell you, believe that LE knows beyond a doubt that Kyron did not leave the school with TH on June 4th in any conceivable or inconceivable fashion.
B
~~~
so to re-quote TY … if not Terri, then who?
Informed teacher he had a doctor’s appointment, no expectation the boy would be in class after the science fair, two teachers were the last school staff to see Kyron, and the teacher said, ‘I thought he left with his mom’…
Prior to his June 4 disappearance, Kyron Horman’s stepmother, Terri Horman, informed his teacher he had a doctor’s appointment on Friday, the sources said, and as a result, there was no expectation the boy would be in class after the science fair. And once class began at 10 a.m., his teacher marked him absent.
According to sources, investigators believe Terri Horman was vague about which Friday she was referring to when she gave notified the school of her stepson’s anticipated absence, and only after he was missing did she clarify that the doctor’s appointment was on June 11, the Friday after the science fair.
Portland Public Schools spokesperson Matt Shelby told KATU News, “Two teachers were the last school staff to see Kyron at Skyline. His own teacher and another teacher saw him inside the school with his stepmother, and there didn’t appear to be anything out of the ordinary.”
At the science fair preceding the boy’s disappearance, Terri Horman photographed Kurtis Holm with his science project. The boy’s mother, Kim Holm, said her son knew about Kyron Horman’s appointment, too.
“And the teacher said, ‘I thought he left with his mom,’ because they thought they had a doctor appointment,” Kim Holm said. “And then at lunchtime – Kurtis ate lunch with him every day – he wasn’t there at lunchtime. And then I got a call at 4:30ish, saying he didn’t get off the bus, I guess. And Kurtis said, ‘Oh yeah, I knew he was already gone all day, Mom.’”
http://www.komonews.com/news/98987454.html
Prayers, hope and faith today and always for little Kyron. Dear Lord, please keep Kyron safe and warm. Bring him home soon to his loved ones. Love you. brave little man.
Beejay, How did you get to this theory?
36.beejay says:
January 21, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Blink: Is there ANY chance that Rodolfo(Rudy)Sanchez is and was on June 4, 2010 imprisoned (unrelated to Ky)? And that the man whose picture you posted, and who has been operating RS Landscape Maintenance is in fact Octaviano Angel-Gomez?
_____________________________________________
This is what I have found:
http://egov.sos.state.or.us/br/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.show_detl?p_be_rsn=1141983&p_srce=BR_INQ&p_print=FALSE
Gomez Carpet Cleaning (?) Lived in an apartment in 2005. Renada house fits for 2006. The initial “R” gives pause.
http://www.peoplesmart.com/psp.aspx?_act=detail&_tab=PeopleSmart&_sea=PeopleByName&LastName=angel-gomez&State=OR&PageNumber=1&PageSize=50&_st=PeopleByName&NumResults=3&pid=000067935506&pfn=Octaviano&pln=Angelgomez&pc=Portland&ps=OR
Name Appears As: Angel G Gomez, Angel Gomez, Angel O Gomez, Angel Octavino Gomez, Gomez Octaviano Angel, Octavia A Gomez, Octavia Gomez, Octaviano A Gomez, Octaviano Angel, Octaviano Gomez
Possible Associates: Adanelia Ange, Angel Gomez, Felicitas C Garcia, Jesus F Angel-Garcia, Mercedes Angel
someone askesd how does a child just disappear out of school without noticing? I teach school as I’ve mentioned before and there are no alarms on the doors during the day. The high school aged kids leave by the side doors all of the time. you can watch them walk right out the door and ask the principal or another teacher standing next to you “did you just see that?” and they will not have seen it. People don’t pay attention this has happened so many times in school I can’t count. People just don’t really look at whats happening around them. Someone might have seen how Kyron left the school but it didn’t raise any red flags at the time. If he left willingly with someone he knew or by himself, no one would probably have noticed or remembered seeing it, It happens all of the time. It’s scary.
__________________________
41.enumclawrose says:
January 21, 2011 at 3:27 pm
(SNIPPED)
Kaine Horman learned of the plot from investigators who said she may have tried to hire other people, too, according to sources familiar with the conversation. Terri said she was in a bad marriage and claimed that Kaine had “hurt” her, according to the sources.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html
——–
@E Rose- TY for reposting this article. What resonates with me, again, is “she may have tried to hire other people” AND “she claimed the Kaine had “hurt” her”.
What other people might she have tried to hire? I know we’ve discussed this, seems nearly impossible to figure out, but IMO it’s a very plausible theory about whom abducted Kyron and why. She let the vampires in, and then there was a whole lot of trouble.
Also, I know that DDS’s alleged cousin said TH asked DDS to call a woman that TH suspected KH was having an affair with, but DDS refused to do so. Is that how he hurt her? And did that make her mad enough to attempt a MFH?
Here is a snippet from DDS’s alleged cousin on the GLP site:
Approx. date of Oct. 12, 2010
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1170793/pg62
Q&A With Dede Spicher (posted by topic)
The phone call Terri made to Dede on the 22nd of June was to ask Dede if she would check on a phone number that Terri was suspicious of being a potential fling of Kaines, but Dede said she didn’t check it out and didn’t get involved.
IIRC Neighbor -or- Skyline Parent have stated that parents WERE @ Talent Show & was a rather dry (boring) event. Kyron’s name WAS called.
Maybe one can repeat more correctly than I.
___________________
Sammy says:
January 21, 2011 at 12:12 pm
Patricia says:
January 21, 2011 at 11:53 am
Which brings us back to how the heck do you disappear a kid in front of a whole school?
Maybe you subdue the child and then wait until the entire school is at an assembly, like a talent show, and then you sneak him out. Little chance of being seen.
What time was the talent show? Any one know if it was before noon.
*************************************************************************
@ patricia.
I’ve heard that the talent show was set for the afternoon at Skyline (1 or 1:30 pm).
Reported that the talent show was designed to be for an audience of Skyline students, teachers, and staff. (not intended for parents or others to be there at that time.)
Interesting thoughts about this being an possible opportune time to disappear unnoticed.
hmmm.
@puzzled says:
January 21, 2011 at 3:32 pm
I’ve had to reasses all of my assumptions … but I will go with this:
That said, if you believe nothing else I ever tell you, believe that LE knows beyond a doubt that Kyron did not leave the school with TH on June 4th in any conceivable or inconceivable fashion.
B
~~~
so to re-quote TY … if not Terri, then who?
—————————————————-
The person that did Terri’s bidding is the “who”, the one LE has been desperately trying to identify. I hope they have had better luck than we have. We shall see…
Deb, that link is nothing short of an accusation, cannot post.
B
PART #1
beejay & enumclawrose~
Looks like y’all are wondering as I am… I hope the sleuthing of name/addy goes better for you …
I have spent hours trying combos to see if anything would pop.
Need to put ” http://www. ” in front of each link (wouldn’t post w/ it included)
================
Name/Aka Age Address Phone #’s Relative/Associates More Info
Angelgomez, Octaviano 34 Canby, OR
Possible Aka’s:
ANGEL, GOMEZ GABRIEL
ANGEL, GOMEZ OCTAVIANO
GOMEZ, OCTAVIANO A
GOMEZOCTAVIA
GOMEZ, ANGEL OCTAVINO
Relatives/Associates
Martinezgomez, Ismael
Gomezgomez, Ismael
Gomez, Roman
Gomez, Lorenzo
Gomez, Gonzalez Silvia
Octavianogomez, Angel
Gomez, Ortega L
Gomez, Gomez R
Gomez, Lopez Inez
PART #2
Gomez, Octaviano Canby, OR
Relative/Associates
Angelgomez, Octaviano
Gomez, Roman
Octavianogomez, Angel
Gomez, Ramon
Gomez, Gabriel A
Gomez, Angel
Following up on my earlier post here with Blinks response to Gypsy:
Gypsy DD says:
September 8, 2010 at 4:23 pm
For those not quite up on their vampire lore..a vampire can knock at your door, but they have very refined manners…they can not come into your home without your inviting them to cross the threshold.
Seems Terri had no problem doing that with this particular vampire.
Why…because she wanted Kaine murdered, she backed off…and the vampires paid another visit and said …we need something for our time and trouble. She figured they would eventually go away. They did not..thus kidnapping Kyron came into play. B
—————-
I’m not saying that KH had an affair, that is just a rumor. However, whether TH thought or knew he did, that is a motive for the MFH. IMO: the fact that she and KH got together while he was married, and his wife was pregnant with Kyron, did not bode well for a foundation of trust in their relationship. If a man cheated on his wife with you, then you will always wonder if he will cheat on you with someone else, IMHO.
FWIW, based on lots of things besides the above, I’m not convinced that our SZ was some random perp. I still think he was invited into the Horman’s life in some way, IMO most likely thru TH, and Ky was abucted because of some seriously bad shenanigans. So…is he some gym rat on roids? A landscaper associate? A lewd, crude nasty dude from Bottoms Up Tavern? Like I said, kind of back to basics for me. Just thinking through lots of things, hoping something will pop for someone.
Part #3
Will NOT post w/ link for Part #1~3.
All names were from “VEROMI”.com
Gomez, Octaviano Portland, OR
=======================
Gomez, Octaviano Milwaukie, OR
enumclawrose says:
January 21, 2011 at 3:33 pm
At the science fair preceding the boy’s disappearance, Terri Horman photographed Kurtis Holm with his science project. The boy’s mother, Kim Holm, said her son knew about Kyron Horman’s appointment, too.
“And the teacher said, ‘I thought he left with his mom,’ because they thought they had a doctor appointment,” Kim Holm said. “And then at lunchtime – Kurtis ate lunch with him every day – he wasn’t there at lunchtime. And then I got a call at 4:30ish, saying he didn’t get off the bus, I guess. And Kurtis said, ‘Oh yeah, I knew he was already gone all day, Mom.’”
——————-
In the following video interview with Kim Holm she says that the teacher told Kurtis that Kyron was absent because of a doctor appointment.
http://www.katu.com/home/video/98647489.html
starts at -1.25