Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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Per the Clean Factor web site, Jaime Estrada “… has been cleaning carpets for over 5 years”.
Could he “be the money” to purchase house ?
JMHO
http://clean-factor.com/company/
No, as I believe he lost his own home to foreclosure a few years back, iirc.
B
Q: Is JSE the “older” brother -or- relative ? I have seen an age of 41 y/o for JSE & age of 35/36 y/o for RS.
Q: Is JSE always having to “cover” for “younger” brother -or- relative ?
Q: IS JSE the “more acceptable/ up-standing” businessman/ business -or- a really good front ?
Where does OAG fit in ?
JMHO … questioning … FOR Kyron … FOR Desiree.
Respectfully, can we know basic facts of this case and form our thoughts around those?
Not trying to be a biznitch, but the fact that the truck was impounded for search/process twice is known info.
B
Blink, I apologize I was not clear. I did not mean to say that unless LE examined the vehicle after the fact as we do know that of course occurred. I meant that unless they were able to actually see inside the vehicle that TmH was driving WHEN she was driving away from the school, that I don’t know how they would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that KyH was not inside that vehicle with her… unless a credible witness saw something else, or unless they are placing their reliance on the polygraph which I hope is not the case… I hope they have more than that.
Thank you.
I
@24. Beejay. Yep. Don’t forget Pumala houseboat.
Anyone know whats up with the divorce case?
Can TH just stay silent forever?
I can hear Blink yelling (ouch!!) that Kyron DID NOT leave school with Terri. I really hear it. And believe it. What my brain and my gut tell me STILL, is that Ky left with a person of Terri’s choosing and she arranged everything, planning every last detail. There is only ONE person who confused everyone about a doctor’s appointment. There is only ONE person who hated him (per DY in presser re: hateful emails). There is only ONE person who tried to have Kaine murdered. Terri, Terri, Terri. I have a hard time believing that a gardener who told police about a MFH plot upon questioning, and even wore a wire is a totally horrible guy. I must be missing something because I just don’t get it. I have to say I have a hard time not reading racism into all the Mexican address/family geography sleuthing. I’m trying to keep an open mind but frankly, it bothers me. A lot. I’ve been trying to look into her gym connections because I think there are a cornucopia of drugs and kinky behavior amongst the body building crowd. Steroids turn normal people into hyper sexed, hyper aroused, angry, testosterone fueled demons. It’s not much of a stretch for me to see how she could’ve made her vampire connection that way. I’m not having any luck finding too much info about that specific crowd, but think it’s worth it to pursue.
Charles Manson wasn’t the one who went on a senseless killing spree that scared an entire major city. But he was the puppet master pulling the strings. Or, as we say in L.A.: what I really want to do is direct. Terri, control, Terri, control. Terri. Oh, did I mention, TERRI?
@my friend TBZ: OMG!!!! My heart raced as I read of your experience. I’m so relieved it turned out ok for you. This whole case has made me a much more fearful parent. Hypervigailance sucks.
TY, beejay et al for Renata/Gomez clarity.
in researching O.A.G. in Canby, I saw several articles on the Suernos/Nortenos gang violence in Canby of the last 3 yrs, even affecting a US holiday. We have a now proactive Justice Dept… I hope Mex gangs in US are on DOJ horizon. re Tweet/Holm…Dottie is w/Mike, both very social, esp Glen Beck causes. But, I saw Holms surname is a dime a dozen in this geogr area & likely no connection to Kim on part of Dottie or Tweet.
Were the weird youtube videos on SI? Roloff another SI connection. I wonder where Gomez/Estrada/Sanchez cells pinged that day. Any school employees on SI? I conyinue to like RSE clan for the “job.”. Yes, zeus, I like yr choice no. 3, leaving not under own steam.
beejay says:
January 21, 2011 at 7:48 pm
__________________________________________
Also, out of the insanity corner, TJ (godlikeproductions) once hinted that he thought facial-hair-guy might be his own “cousin” Rick. If that has any meaning to anyone.
__________________________________________
@beejay
IIRC, didn’t DDS have a brother and/or a cousin named Rick???? I swear I remember reading that somewhere and I also remember someone saying they believed he owned a white truck (???). I don’t remember which forum it was on (not BOC for sure) but one of the other ones where I read that. Can’t find it at the moment, but I know I remember reading that somewhere and seeing pics of the white truck that supposedly went with Rick. Sorry I don’t have more to add. Don’t know if that leads us anywhere new or not.
For whoever it was awhile back that was asking if there might be any Vancouver, WA (or just Washington itself) connections in relation to the last searches on Sauvie Island (because of things floating down river to Sauvie around that timeframe). It appears DDS at some time lived in Vancouver, WA.
Spicher, Dede Lee 44
Possible Aka’s:
DELSPICHER, DE
Hillsboro, OR
Portland, OR
Tigard, OR
Tualatin, OR
Vancouver, WA
Possible Relatives:
Spicher, Harry Wendell
Spicher, Dick W
beejay says:
January 22, 2011 at 1:07 pm
@sassifrass. “What in relationship to Kyron being missing is associated with Sauvie Island?”
_______________
In addition to TH: Rudy’s customers and/or suppliers, and/or dumping stations plus other RS unknowns. Kessingers and their pumpkin patch, the tree farm, and other recreational venues on Sauvie Is. Ky’s friends at Sauvie Is Elem; maybe a shared bus driver and/or route. Lots of non-obvious stuff–just in case you get tired of the Terri-connection!
_______________________________________
Respectfully, that is way over the place. You’re pointing ties to the Kessingers, and RS. Give me a link that ties the two of them together.
Regarding the bus driver, I posted on SM about him (Santiago Bautista) who is on the list. We don’t know if he traveled that same route. I DO know that he took kids there on class trips though.
I’m not tired of the Terri connection, but most of this is speculation.
Sorry, I’m moving on.
Also, where do you get that RS had dumping stations on SI? Just curious.
To Beejay and all the name searchers, Renada St. searchers, etc. –
Here’s what I thought last August/September when I started looking at the house. I can’t say it was a conclusion, because we don’t seem to have many of those – more like a revolving door.
I searched and searched for Octaviano Angel-Gomez and every variation of all 3 names I could think of, as well as partial spellings in the US to see what comes up. None of those names are uncommon if you are doing a wide search. I also looked at some names out of the country although I can’t read much Spanish, I can recognize US place names like Oregon. I didn’t have any luck. Maybe someone will now.
My thoughts then were:
1) The house is probably a rental house with the owners living out of town, or the owners are relatives of JSE and RSE and allow them to live there – still thinking the owners live far enough away to be uninvolved in anything around here, perhaps even in Mexico. I have a neighbor who decided to get an RV, travel for a couple of years, and rent out her house with furniture in storage. She gets her mail there and asked another neighbor to handle the mail and the rental details. She doesn’t have another address, so for all practical purposes, she “lives” there.
2) The fact that they put in new windows, made me think it was an investment and since there wasn’t a contractor name on the permit, I figured they did it themselves or relatives did. They could have been hoping to sell it, but prices dropped so much the value is way below what they paid now.
3) I also thought it might be a money laundering deal, but that would be pretty obvious to LE and I’m sure they’ve thoroughly checked out the house. They may have made a large down payment because the monthly house payment does not seem high enough for the total price they paid.
4) It’s possible of course that the OA-G names could be aliases, but if there was a loan to buy the property, you would have to submit SS numbers and ID, history of your earnings, etc. Loan details for a mortgage probably wouldn’t be public records except for dates when bought and sold and the selling price.
My thoughts now – pretty much the same with a few extra.
1 – I have only heard of Rudy’s “wife” 2 places – Terri and Blink. I thought Blink might have been joking with her comment. I don’t recall ever seeing verification that Rudy has or did have a wife or any children. I’m sure LE knows. We all know Terri stretches, bends, and creates “truth” and there’s also the possibility Rudy made up a wife as a cover or in response to something Terri said or wanted him to do. Also, emailing her mother and friends that Rudy was cheating on a spouse would take the focus off of her doing the same.
2 – We all know we are repeating some of the work we’ve already done and then trying to expand on that. Given that there have been so many “now you see it, now you don’t” experiences, it’s probably valuable to recheck everything we’ve done every so often.
3 – I have always wondered about Rudy’s truck. Blink said it was registered in Washington. I said he would have to have a Washington address either his residence, or maybe license it as a business vehicle in Washington. It should have had Washington license plates as long as it was registered in WA, and if he moved to Oregon, he would have had a limited time to register it here. A UCC lien is not a registration, so I’m assuming Blink has access to both and likely has his license number as well.
4 – I also wondered if he had his business name painted on the side of the truck door. IF he did, it would have been very easy to tell Rudy’s truck from any other white pickup. He could also have had a magnetic sign – which someone could easily have duplicated.
I DID see an older white truck (different model) not long ago with “Rudy Sanchez Landscape Maintenance” painted on it. That’s the business which was not renewed in 2007, but there’s no law against driving around with the old name on your truck if you’ve changed your business name – as far as I know. He could have sold the truck, but I doubt a new owner would keep his old business name. Businesses which are very visible, such as lawn maintenance, painting, roofing, etc., almost always have the business name showing. It’s free advertising parked right by the job being done. If Rudy had a plain white truck with no sign, I’d wonder why.
5 – I’d love to know how many parents and teachers would recognize RS if they saw him. No one has ever answered how much time he spent at the school during the school day over the period of time he was hired – and what that period of time was – a month, 2 months, a year, 2 years – and when was the last day he worked? (I would be amazed if he does anything there now.) I do not believe RS took Kyron, but I would like to know what his relationship with the school was and whether he ever sent workers without coming with them.
6 – If I ever saw a white pickup parked at Renada Street, I would probably “run aground”. Either it’s not there, or it’s diligently parked inside. However – if it were me, I’d have sold it (if I could), or had the truck repainted even if I had to buy spray cans and do it myself! I’d be concerned about reporters following me, although it appears none are trying.
7 – RS registered his business in all counties and it’s good until 1-8-12 so he could be working anywhere he wants. Of course, as we have seen, you can have a business whether you register or not.
@ beejay and blinksters: Please ignore my last 2 post’. I had been up for almost 24 hours straight and read beejays post incorrectly.
I finally got some sleep and I humbly will bend over while you kick me in the arse.
For the record, neither the Roloff or Kessinger farms are on Sauvie Island:
Roloff Farms addy is on NW Grossen Dr., Hillsboro, OR
Kessinger addy is on NW Old Cornelius Pass Road, Portland, OR
******************
@beejay- FWIW, I’ve reviewed your AG on FB, not ties to any other POIs on your lists there.
@15. Ty for correction!
@Idahogal: TY. Not sure the residents on Renada will be very active where you’re looking, unless for business purposes.
@Sassi: No problem. We’ve all been there. Did you read at Santiago’s Facebook before it went private/he stopped posting? That he didn’t have to work the weekend of June 5; he usually posted every day, but not that weekend (am I remembering that correctly?); then on June 8 he posted that he hadn’t slept well the nite before due to things on his mind. Possibly finding out about Ky was disturbing? He’s another gym-going/bodybuilding guy. It all read okay to me, but I noticed not much in the way of romantic relationships.
*******************
So, Blink says Rudy and Jaime are definitely brothers. TH’s lawyers say Rudy is an alias name. So, what are their real names? Or do we care? Maybe not, other than for sleuthing purposes. AKAs will serve as well. I’m more thinking Rudy = Ubaldo R Sanchez (alias name).
I do know that our nondocumented/guest workers often purchase fake ID. I even found a software program for sale on the internet to use in setting up your own business creating IDs. The ad said for entertainment purposes–spoofing people? A rather thin cover for its obvious intended use.
**************
I have to travel this afternoon, on short-notice, so won’t be posting for awhile. From time to time I’ll be reading here, so I can spy on ya’ll! Such good energy here now.
@BEEJAY,
I haven’t had time to follow your Arturo Yet, and will do so later,
however; here is the “F” link.
Please remember when you do your veromi search to use just the Last name as Frausto. No first name or middle and in the state of oregon.
That will bring up the first aka that I had already mentioned of “mejia”.
Then
A veromi search of the Mejia above, brings up some fellow members we have discussed.
An Oregon business search under just the last name of Frausto provides us with
a carpet business in the same area we have been watching
FRAUSTO, ARMANDO
Available GLADSTONE, OR ARRAS CARPET
11. ARRAS CARPET Available Gladstone, OR FRAUSTO, ARMANDO
(REGISTRANT)
FRAUSTO, JOSE
(REGISTRANT)
*****************************************************
http://pdxmugshots.com/mug/noe-daniel-maciasfrausto
also the above is per veromi
gathering the other links for ya
@13. M’bird. I forget original post, but wasn’t the seller, RT, either very elderly or her estate? …the profile to lowball a price, not beyond market top? Dropping from 329 to 201k is pretty profound. So, not money laundering. I thot it might be a classic collusion with house egregiously overvaled to get a very high mortgage, then seller kicks back and buyer walks away. But it’s a low payment?
In our county, the permit holder applies in person (the reason contractors usually do it forthe homeowner. Yes, I too thot OAG mighr be in Mexico, but decided he was local as he pulled the permit. Maybe he just lets his addr be used by businesses registering in OR whose owners really live in Washington.
As far as racism, the MFH potential collaborator, , who did not report the solicitation when received, happens to be hispanic. That necessitates cross-cultural adaptation by researchers to names & family systems— not to hispanics per se, but to those so recently immigrated they remain embedded in their culture of origin. Socio economic factors, and criminal factors (in the case of AS-SE) add wrinkles. I’ve felt adding the cross cultural wrinkle has been respectfully handled.
@ family thx That’s what i was trying to get at awhile ago. I wonder about TH and KH gym connections. I mentioned that one of my friends lives in Troutdale and her husband is a former wrestler and frequents the gym near her almost every evening. She told me yrs ago about the drug use in gyms (steroids etc..) and unsavory individuals that hang out at the gyms. The gym is where it appears that TH spent a lot of time.
No, as I believe he lost his own home to foreclosure a few years back, iirc.
B
**************************************
Blink,
Several threads ago you told us about RS’s immigration
problem. Does JSE also have an immigration problem?
House to forclosure and etc makes me question!
“family thx says:
January 22, 2011 at 9:20 pm
I must be missing something because I just don’t get it. I have to say I have a hard time not reading racism into all the Mexican address/family geography sleuthing. I’m trying to keep an open mind but frankly, it bothers me. A lot.”
I’m in 100% agreement with you on this. I have to scroll and roll hastily not to get upset about all the names of persons with no proven connection are assumed to be a part of some horrendous conspiracy to steal and murder a child. The cultural norm of using both maternal and paternal surnames is interpreted as a scam to open businesses. Something tells me no one will find more information on Veromi or Reverse Look-Up than LE already possesses. I’d install lots of outdoor lighting and keep my shades pulled too if people crept by my home peering in to find something to link me to this crime.
“MockingbirdSings says:
January 22, 2011 at 11:19 pm
5 – I’d love to know how many parents and teachers would recognize RS if they saw him. No one has ever answered how much time he spent at the school during the school day over the period of time he was hired – and what that period of time was – a month, 2 months, a year, 2 years – and when was the last day he worked?”
His was the first name I looked for on the list of people at the SF released by LE. There’s a reason Rodolpho Sanchez is not in jail right now and TH is not in jail for a MFH conspiracy. That conspiracy and RS’s testimony are integral to the case which will be brought against her for Kyron’s disappearance. I speculate that what RS has to tell about TH will make the sexting seem like child’s play.
Months ago Blink said Rudy “knew a guy.” This may possibly be the extent to which RS is involved. He most likely did not know the who, what or where of the actual abduction. He may be able to guess at the who or he may not. TH got around, I’m sure RS was just one of her many diversions.
It is a logical assumption that if TH knew where Kyron was taken, Houze would persuade her to take a plea deal. I suspect TH knows Kyron is deceased and like others of the sociopath ilk, she will never admit her role in his death. I think TH’s plan went well for her on June 4th, until the school secretary called LE.
http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/view.2/app.detail/params.CM_SCID.coll.item.E166560.desc.HP-DV7-173-6GB-RAM-640GB-HDBluray-9cell-4YrMcAfee
If this doesn’t open when u click it, copy and paste. This is the timeline given by Valhall on hinky meter. 2 teachers say they saw kyron leave with Terri. I myself wouldn’t hold much stock in Tanners account, sounds like a nice little boy but I think his story is embellished. Many children tend to do this. A 7th grader says he saw kyron by an exit door. LE( I’m positive) knows much more than they are saying. Also the timeline says that Kyron’s abduction was changed from child endangerment to a criminal investigation. That’s very significant and it says to me that they know much more than we do. I believe Kyron left the building himself. Maybe TH said she was running to the store and would be back in a few but it wasn’t her that returned in a white truck. It was the abductor Who? don’t know….. trying to sort it out. There are so many missing pieces. To Kyron, the angels are standing guard over you-pray for your safe return.
@Idahogal et al…
I’m lost in the name game … I get B’s definitive that JE is brother to RS … and I get that OAG is the owner of the Renada house … which is probably a hot bed for the “associates”.
My own filter is that RS is an alias … following Bunch’s line of inquiry … not as in he has another name he goes by … Ubaldo R … but “acts” in another capacity.
Just trying to put together a scenario that reaches an end conclusion … like everyone else.
Blink~
I have been researching Renada St as far as I could online & than spoke w/CC Assessment & Taxation.
Since the “O A-G” name did not “show” in searches of names w/ the house, I tried searching the ph # that was part of a 2009 (O A-G’s) permit for window replacement on house. I did a lot, way too many actually, of free reverse ph # look-ups.
So I finally asked if anyone had a paid reverse phone # look-up.
Another poster asked if anyone had “googled” the # & found JSE & his carpet cleaning business (?)
So, as simple as “googling”, I found “confirmation” that “O A-G” ph # is in fact JSE ph #.
IMO This “googling” seems to “show” “O A-G” is more “connected” to Renada St house & Sanchez/Estrada than what appeared @ first glance.
I apologizes if my posting were not clear.
JMHO … for Kyron … to infinity & beyond.
__________________________________
riverpearl-
I believe this info is all on here a few times, very early. Is there a reason we are rehashing this again that I missed?
B
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evie says:
January 21, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@beejay and others running the Renada St name game.. On the permit sheet for June 2009, where Octaviano Angel-Gomez is listed getting the permit for new windows? Did anyone else put the phone number in google and get Clean Factor and JSE back?
I think you are spot-on about OAG being an aka/alias for one of the Sanchez brothers.
I called that number back when. A man answered and there was lots of noise including children in the background.
Idahogal~
You are a braver soul than I … will leave a light on …
______________________
Idahogal says:
January 22, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@ALL of you sleuths in the know with Sanchez/Estrada Enchilada – How many of you are using FB to look for connections? I’m working on that a bit and will see where it goes. Problem is, I’m not sure exactly whom I’m looking for, ya’ know? I think it could be a good tool though, so I’ll poke around as time allows. I’m running as fast as I can but ya’ll are too fast for this me, dang!
http://www.katu.com/news/local/114423784.html
“In an effort to generate more leads and tips and increase the exposure for the victims, all three children were featured in the Homeward Bound program in September of 2007,” the Washington State Patrol reports. “Their trailers were used in several community outreach events and circulated nationwide focusing on states that share a border with Mexico.”
Around one week ago, on Jan. 14, 2011, all three children were recovered and reunited with their mother back in the U.S.
“While the children were not recovered as a direct result of a tip from the Homeward Bound Program, the exposure they received contributed to this case being kept in the forefront and their ultimate recovery from Mexico,” Washington State Patrol reports.
——————–
Looking at this part of the katu news article (above), I am wondering if the pictures of Kyron placed on the trucks will be focused on any particular areas of the US, or be used in any outreach events. “Exposure” is always mentioned as a critical part of recovery, of course. If there is still some hope Kyron could be alive, this is an excellent way to get attention, but even if not, this action may send a message to someone who knows something.
I was watching Masterpiece Mystery with Inspector Lewis last night and the comment was made that relationships change over time and that may inspire someone to share something that may eventually be used to solve a case.
My apparently unanswerable question comes up again – why isn’t the $50,000 reward money mentioned on posters and every time something is written about Kyron?
Could this be the home on Amherst?
________________________________________________________________
No, as I believe he lost his own home to foreclosure a few years back, iirc.
B
________________________________________________________________
http://www.peoplesmart.com/psp.aspx?_act=results
This Amherst addy search yields JAIME S ASTRADA (notice spelling) and Sanchez Casto aka Castro Sanchez age 29. A search on those names yields Sanchez Heidi B Castro age 28. Could this be Jaime’s wife?
not his wife’s name
B
Link for Sanchez Heidi B Castro aka Sanchez Castro aka Castro Sanchez
http://www.peoplesmart.com/psp.aspx?_act=detail&_tab=PeopleSmart&_sea=PeopleByName&FirstName=castro&LastName=sanchez&State=OR&PageNumber=1&PageSize=50&_st=PeopleByName&NumResults=24&pid=148804069995&pfn=Sanchez&pln=Castro&pc=Portland&ps=OR
Kimberly~
I guess I’m still spinning from “O A-G” searching … ‘cuz I could not duplicate what you found …
Would it be possible for you to c/p ?
TIA
PS. I too, had a lot of problems (lately) w/ posting veromi link. Ugh …
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Kimberly says:
January 22, 2011 at 2:33 pm
To Everyone,
Soooo I was sleuthing the name that Beejay has listed and came across a pretty significant tie, Due to the fact my head is spinning beyond belief, (feel drunk and don’t even drink) I’m posting for others to look at and hopefully contribute to.
I was sleuthing the name A. Gomez, because I found it on a business search in Washington and Portland.
When I enter the name just as I have listed above on Veromi another round of variables in JSE and RSE appears,
However: what caught my attention was that JSE used or uses the name of J,Mejia Gomez.
So I entered that name on veromi and there appears our JSE and RSE under those names, but was found using the last name of Mejia.
family thx~
With regard to your statement “family thx says: January 22, 2011 at 9:20 pm” …
” … I have a hard time believing that a gardener who told police about a MFH plot upon questioning, and even wore a wire is a totally horrible guy. I must be missing something because I just don’t get it. I have to say I have a hard time not reading racism into all the Mexican address/family geography sleuthing …”
It is not BECAUSE he/they are Hispanic that sleuthing is happening. It is our Blink that has told us repeatedly to LOOK @ RS & Assoc.
IF he/ they had a Jones or Smith or whatever name w/ Irish or English or whatever ethic background, we would still be doing the same searches etc.
IMO It has not “helped” that he/ they have used “possible names” that are NOT their legal names and have a “habit” of starting” & “failure to renew” businesses.
IMO he/ they have a rather tangled web & that is BEFORE you factor in the “relationship/ MFH plot” w/ TMH.
We, collective group of BOC, are trying to “connect the dots” TY said are there to see.
JMHO
Keep in mind, Rudy Sanchez spoke to a reporter, and participated in a police sting with a Federal Agent where he ADMITTED his involvement in an alleged MFH plot, in which he was expecting a $10,000 payment. I guess some opinions about how horrible he is would change if he had actually carried it out? The sleuthing that is occurring here is based on known witnesses, or possibly related persons who happen to be hispanic. Obviously that occurs regardless of nationality in many cases covered here.
B
family thx says:
January 22, 2011 at 9:20 pm
“I have to say I have a hard time not reading racism into all the Mexican address/family geography sleuthing. I’m trying to keep an open mind but frankly, it bothers me. A lot.”
I don’t think that’s the intention of anybody on BOC, but I have also felt that way sometimes. For me, it started with referring to “the Sanchez boys” when we are talking about men in their 30’s. I almost posted something, but we moved on.
I think it’s a matter of how sites like Veromi get and post information and the fact that we have no birthdays, very few pictures, etc., added to the fact that so many family members are trying to help other family members with living arrangements and jobs, and when jobs are tough to find, self-employment is a good option – not to mention the issues of immigration.
I think there are many reasons why people stop and start businesses and we have already shown that at least a good part of the time when names are confused, it is because of the different ways names are understood and used, and the way the US and states construct their forms (paper and online), and the way people taking information ask and choose to write down the answers given them, giving lots of opportunity for changes. NOT to say, of course, that some people don’t use different names on purpose, and, NOT to say that people shouldn’t continue researching every possible lead. We must simply remember not limit ourselves in any way in this search – not country of origin, age, gender, criminal history or not, married or not, or by any other criteria unless we have verified evidence to back that up.
Per TJ @ GLP thread (now deleted) … Yes, TJ’s cousin is Rick, younger brother of DDS.
Not @ all clear IF he lives in KFalls or Pltd Metro area.
__________________
Justice23 says:
January 22, 2011 at 10:29 pm
beejay says:
January 21, 2011 at 7:48 pm
__________________________________________
Also, out of the insanity corner, TJ (godlikeproductions) once hinted that he thought facial-hair-guy might be his own “cousin” Rick. If that has any meaning to anyone.
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@beejay
IIRC, didn’t DDS have a brother and/or a cousin named Rick???? I swear I remember reading that somewhere and I also remember someone saying they believed he owned a white truck (???). I don’t remember which forum it was on (not BOC for sure) but one of the other ones where I read that. Can’t find it at the moment, but I know I remember reading that somewhere and seeing pics of the white truck that supposedly went with Rick. Sorry I don’t have more to add. Don’t know if that leads us anywhere new or not.
do you have a photobucket?
B
RE:MockingbirdSings says: January 22, 2011 at 11:19 pm
IMO The whole “ownership” of house is hinky.
Yes, it simply could be an owner sending tax statements to house but why ?
-AND-
If so, why is that name NOT showing up in searches w/ the house ? Especially since the aged “Tweet” (name) is still connected.
IF the “owner” or “relatives” did the install themselves, WHY would “owner” use JSE cell/ business # ?
Also, waiting to (re-) sell 3 years after purchase & installing new windows to “spruce” the place up for sale does not really track since the housing market was already on a downward trend. IF the windows had been done in previous yrs (2006-2207-2008) would seem more reasonable investment in the RE mkt.
RE: RS truck signage on -or- off. I had a neighbor who, depending on the day & hour, would “claim” to be a “licensed landscape designer”, arboriculturalist (arborist), &/ or everything in between. He never had signage on his truck but he did have a collection of “business cards”.
Another man I know, a friend who is a multi-millionarie many times over, has residential & commercial property from Pltd Metro to Eugene to the Oregon coast. He does landscaping, plumbing, painting etc & he has signage but most of the time he never puts it on. He prefers to be under the radar. Most people believe him to be the hired help.
My point is, signage means little. I am surround by properties that use 2-differnt major, well known landscape companies. When the “hired help” show up to work on these different properties, there is no signage on their trucks, just lawn mowers, blowers etc in the truck beds.
What I have learned, the hard way, is “a business name” is just that- a name. Easily used &/ or bought.
And, just because someone introduces themselves as “so ‘n so” does not “prove” that is who they really are.
Remember the guy, using a murdered 3yr old boy’s name ? 14 yrs he roamed around w/ carte blanche. He even was a State of Oregon employee for 8yrs w/ that name.
IMO A “name” (business or indiv ) is “just a name to be used” by many more than I thought possible.
JMHO
PS. The guy that used that murdered little boys’ name requested & was granted the right to marry a US female citizen while in jail. Now it is unclear if he has or will but the fact of the matter is, he does not want to leave the US &/ or live in his native land. So how long do you think it will take him to come back if (and that’s a big if) he gets deported ?
JMHO … questioning … FOR Kyron … to infinity & beyond.
sassifrass says:
January 23, 2011 at 8:39 am
I finally got some sleep and I humbly will bend over while you kick me in the arse.
******************
Sassifrass-best comment of the day! Thank you, I needed that levity badly, some personal issues, ya know!
___________________
To everyone who has been somewhat, or a lot angry over the sleuthing of Spanish/Mexican names, families, etc., please try not to be upset. We’ve spent time sleuthing almost every nationality (even a couple hits on space aliens!), but I see where you are coming from, and I truly understand.
I believe that all started with the man who happened to be a landscaper and also wore the wire in the MFH sting and is of Spanish/Mexican descent–so naturally it’s become an extreme focus here. Doesn’t mean we are prejudiced, it just appears that way because of what went down previously to lead us in that direction.
I agree that the ultimate bad guy could just as well turn out to be a body building, steroid junky, white supremacist from TH’s past. We still just do not know….
Anyone else see similarities??????????????????
Kimberly- you cannot post a random pic of a RSO and tie them to a possible crime.
There has to be a connection to this case, otherwise, believe it or not, the RSO has recourse.
B
Midwest Mom says:
January 22, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Blink,
Do you know if the bearded guy (no flannel)in the pic has been
identified?
Depends who you ask.
B
—————–
o.k. More direct question, any chance it is S. Fuhrer hubby to wendy?
Woman suspected in kidnapping case in custody
“(Reuters) – A woman suspected in the kidnapping of a baby from a New York hospital 23 years ago is in custody after turning herself in to the FBI office in Bridgeport, Connecticut, law enforcement officials said on Sunday.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70M28L20110123
“Authorities are considering whether federal investigators should take the case because the statute of limitations may have expired in New York, said chief New York Police Department spokesman Paul Browne. There is no limitation in federal missing children cases.”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/23/mom-kidnap-victim-reportedly-spotted-conn-pawn-shop/#ixzz1Bu6cPBJC
Shout to Sassisfras who visits from SM … really great stuff that is posted … pictures and all!!!
re: Do you know if the bearded guy (no flannel)in the pic has been
identified?
This is a long shot, but I was thinking…I just upgraded to a droid and it has an app called Google Goggles. The idea is you scan a picture and the engine searches for matches based on the pic. Why is it a long shot? Because out of curiousity I scanned mine and I definitely look nothing like a famous blond out-of-control New York Socialite. Ha ha it might be wirth a try with no-flannel-shirt-bearded-guy, tho?
Was there ever confirmation on TH calling and leaving message as to when she could pick up science project? Seems a gap, as to getting it, would be important if Ky was going to Moms that evening.I thought somewhere I read Desiree wanted to see it .I don’t think I’ve seen that mentioned. It raised a question for me. How many projects were being “taken out” during the play? Might have been a time where Ky could have been removed with no one veiwing. If the school staff doesn’t call on a missing child all day ,then they probably haven’t been trained to be “aware” of noticing other occurances. Just a thought as to how Ky could have left with no one noticing. IMO seems plausible.
@Amy’s Sister – I appreciate your “intuitive thoughts”. Based on my own dreams, I believe the bridge within sight of the handoff was the Steel Bridge, and the boat may have been a grain vessel that exited Portland on June 4th. I believe Ky was driven across the Steel Bridge inside a full size pickup. Wish I knew if there were cameras on the bridge capturing images/license plate numbers.
FWIW – The comment and answer below is why I am sleuthing associates that are related to Rudy Sanchez. I am not concerned with their ethnicity, if he has a martian related to him and I can find it, I’m on it. If Blink changes her focus, I’ll change mine. Her guidance and connections are why I am here.
Many families have been vetted here due to their connection to the Horman’s; Spicher, Wishart/Wishert, Holm/Villareal, Pumala to name a few. With all due respect, please give up on the white guilt and give the majority of people the credit they deserve for getting past racial issues because insinuating racism where none exists is damaging too.
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34.NancyS says:
July 17, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Blink,
If you were guessing, who would be your biggest FOCUS?
Rudy Sanchez and his associates.
B
While I was back in Blink’s archives, I found this post. Maybe it will read differently six months later.
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9.MaeBee says:
July 20, 2010 at 4:59 pm
First of all, I am a friend of the family. The glasses were not Kyron’s. Also there is not a ransom that I am aware of. If you find any information please post it. That would be a new one.
Terri H. was not the last person to see Kyron alive. When she left the school with her baby girl, several did see her without Kyron. She waved to him as he started walking into his classroom. The first bell was at 9:00 a.m. so Kyron was not left alone in an empty school. And Terri didn’t abandon him at the school. It was close to the time that the kids had to get into their groups. I also know from my own experience, when a child has been going to this school all year, he knows the school very well and more than likely didn’t want mom to hang around. They like their independence and schools are supposed to be safe. Right? Children in my experience do not lie, especially little ones such as Tanner. There are more players in this case than people know. They are not going to tell anyone yet, who they are looking into. Terri is in Roseburg and it is good that she is out of the public’s eye for now. I believe in the Police and the other agencies that they are doing the best that they can. I want the correct person or persons arrested and for Kyron to be found. But I do not believe in tatics that will destroy someone’s life so they can use this person as a smoke screen. Terri H was told from the beginning that she wouldn’t be talking. She actually thought the police and FBI, etc. were her friends. She gave them everything that she could give. I know it is not good enough for some since they didn’t hear her speak but she is not allowed to speak now either. It isn’t her idea to keep quiet, she is under orders to not talk about this case to anyone. Maybe in the future, she will be able to say her piece. I am still wanting to know about Brian Pumala and his electrical presentation that Kyron was so excited about seeing. Does anyone have his information? A picture?
Maebee learns of the affair between TH and RS from Blink…
11.MaeBee says:
July 20, 2010 at 9:04 pm
I just listened to the radio show that blink was on. Did I hear you right that Terri admitted to an affair with Rudy Sanchez or only that she did know him because of the yard work? If she admitted to having a tryst with him, then it truly changes everything that I have been told by her. I need this to be clarifyed, just for my own peace of mind. Thank You.
I am told by sources that Terri was involved in an intimate relationship with Rudy Sanchez at some point. The extent of which, to my knowledge has not been verified.
Wow Enum I didn’t remember that one at all. Wonderful find and so, so, so fitting. I wondered about him all along. Just maybe that is why no arrest for RS. MFH maybe but not kidnapping! BP has dropped off the earth and not one BOC has sleuthed him out, as I can recall and my memory is going! Puts things in a new prospective especially if LE pushed this rift in KH’s family further than it should be. If no MFH then we are just left with a woman who might have slept around alot in her marriage and that should have been kept private if not associated with Ky’s disappearance. All MOO and I had always thought that TH had some kind of relationship with BP. Maybe he was in line to do a MFH too?
There is a reason Desiree and Kaine felt regret about the chat they had with Kyron about his listening issues at school.
I say this with a broken heart for them, and for Ky.
B
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Blink …
In other words, “be careful what you wish for …” no?
riverpearl says:
January 23, 2011 at 4:50 pm
Per TJ @ GLP thread (now deleted) … Yes, TJ’s cousin is Rick, younger brother of DDS.
Not @ all clear IF he lives in KFalls or Pltd Metro area.
_________________________
@river
Veromi shows he did at least at some point or still does (live in K Falls). Not sure sometimes how people search sites list addy’s as it appears sometimes they are in order of most to least recent and sometimes they are in reverse order, so hard to tell. At least this has been my experience when I’ve done searches here on people I actually know (and know which addy’s come 1st and last).
Spicher, Richard Earl
Possible Aka’s:
SPICHER, RICH
SPICHER, RICK E 38
Ronan, MT
Eagle Point, OR
Klamath Falls, OR
Spicher, Linda Lee
Spicher, Donald Lee
Spicher, Don L
Spicher, Alta V
Spicher, Dick W
Spicher, Alta
Sorry … can’t post the veromi link for some reason. Didn’t used to have any problem with it, but now lately, it’s been acting flaky, ugh.
33.riverpearl says:
January 23, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Kimberly~
I guess I’m still spinning from “O A-G” searching … ‘cuz I could not duplicate what you found …
Would it be possible for you to c/p ?
TIA
PS. I too, had a lot of problems (lately) w/ posting veromi link. Ugh
******************************
Here ya go,
33.riverpearl says:
January 23, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Kimberly~
I guess I’m still spinning from “O A-G” searching … ‘cuz I could not duplicate what you found …
Would it be possible for you to c/p ?
TIA
PS. I too, had a lot of problems (lately) w/ posting veromi link. Ugh
***************************************************************
Here ya go!
Gomez, Abundio Fidel
49 Beaverton, OR Available
Gomez, Andres Mardoqueo
Gomez, Eraiza
Gomez, Cuevasmiguel A
Gomez, Miguel Angel
Gomez, Eligio Vasquez
Gomez, Socorro
Gomez, Elvidia Eraiza
Gomez, Cuevas Miguel
Gomez, Mejiajaime G
Gomez, Jaime
Beaverton, OR Available
Gomez, Sanchez R
Ubaldo R = Roberto