Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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Madilu, I am only going to say this once and then I will disregard every comment you or anyone generates in defense, but please keep your outrageous conspiracy theories away from here and back at THM where they belong! BOC is a good place to come for rational thought. Please don’t attempt to corrupt that.
Idahogal~
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner.I was not avoiding your question, just cannot find what I saw before … but did find this clip: notice the truck bed @ ~2:01.
Also w/ the MCSO spoke person Lindstrand comment of “found nothing of note that she can tell us about”, is a rather odd statement. She could have said “no comment” &/ or “nothing recovered” IF there was NOTHING found. Does that make sense ? [When I posted, I had things swirling in my head w/ Desiree interview/comments on the Today Show & not being on my computer I had no way to copy/paste etc., I just scribbled stream of "OMG' thoughts. I probably should have walk away w/ my thoughts/comments sooner ... and than hearing KH, again discount Desiree ... I am wound too tight just now]
When I saw your post I cringed a little because I was hoping others had seen the same/ or similar things. I had an after thought that maybe I should have posted “private” to Blink.
IF what I saw “re-surfaces” I will post.
JMHO
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Divers-seek-Kyron-clues-in-Sauvie-Island-waters/i0AuhogHAE-JJBsG6ia1zA.cspx
Here is a “time line” on KATU from 06/04 -07/28/2010
If you go to link below, w/i the time line are links @ each date.
TIMELINE OF EVENTS IN KYRON’S DISAPPEARANCE
June 4, 2010 – Police issue an alert saying 7-year-old Kyron Horman has disappeared.
Police look for missing Skyline Elementary student
June 6, 2010 – “The reported disappearance from one of our schools is unprecedented,” Portland School Superintendent Carol Smith says during a news conference, “and deeply troubling.”
School security increased after boy disappears
June 6, 2010 – The Federal Bureau of Investigation brings in members of its Child Abduction Rapid Deployment team as searchers move into the third day without a sign of Kyron.
FBI brings in profiler for Skyline search
June 7, 2010 – Police hold a news conference to provide an update on the search efforts.
Watch the news conference
June 8, 2010 – Police hold a news conference to provide an update on the search efforts.
Watch the news conference
June 10, 2010 – Two former detective supervisors say the lack of information investigators have released in the search for Kyron Horman points to potential criminal involvement.
Lack of info. in search may point to criminal involvement
June 10, 2010 – Police hold a news conference to provide an update on the search efforts.
Watch the news conference
June 10, 2010 – Officials display the type of clothes Kyron was last seen wearing.
Family pleads for Kyron’s return, deputies highlight clothing
June 11, 2010 – Three possible sightings in Yreka, Calif., turn out to be someone else who closely resembled Kyron.
Possible Calif. sightings are not missing Ore. boy
June 11, 2010 – Family members speak at a news conference. It is the first time they have come forward in the public eye.
Kyron Horman’s parents thank searchers, hold out hope
June 14, 2010 – As the search for Kyron intensifies, searchers defend their efforts.
Officials defend search efforts, dive teams search Sauvie Island
June 14, 2010 – An 8-year-old boy who looks like Kyron Horman starts drawing attention.
The search for Kyron leads to local look-alikes
June 14, 2010 – Police release a photo showing the type of glasses Kyron wears.
Police release replica of Kyron’s glasses
June 15, 2010 – Family and friends hold a vigil for Kyron as the school year ends.
Vigil symbolizes hope for Kyron’s safe return
School ends for Skyline amid Kyron search
June 18, 2010 – Police release a flier to the public, one that specifically asks for information about Terri.
Police ask for info about missing boy’s stepmom
June 24, 2010 – For the first time we see video of Kyron.
Family releases video of Kyron
June 25, 2010 – Desiree and Kaine go on national TV.
Kyron’s parents voice fading hope
June 27, 2010 – Terri’s father talks to ‘People’ magazine and is quoted as saying “she’s trying to be as cooperative as she can … I guess they think she’s going to break.”
The search for Kyron: Terri Horman’s father talks to ‘People’ magazine
June 28, 2010 – Kaine files for divorce from Terri and is granted a restraining order against her.
Divorce papers, restraining order put spotlight on stepmother
June 29, 2010 – Friends of Terri urge the woman to speak and tell her side of the story.
Friends urge Terri Horman to speak
June 30, 2010 – Terri hires criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze.
Terri Horman retains prominent attorney
June 30, 2010 – We learn more about the two 911 calls that were placed from the Horman family home.
Details emerge in Horman family 911 calls
July 1, 2010 – Desiree reads a short statement asking Terri to cooperate with the investigation.
Desiree’s plea puts pressure on Kyron’s stepmom
July 2, 2010 – Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton says during a news conference that Terri Horman is being cooperative.
Sheriff: Terri Horman being cooperative
July 4, 2010 – Reports arise that Terri allegedly tried to hire a man to kill her husband.
Report: Terri Horman tried to have husband killed
July 4, 2010 – A source confirms that the Oregon Department of Human Services opened a case on Terri Horman following a 2005 arrest and charge of driving under the influence.
DHS opened a case on Kyron’s stepmom years ago
July 6, 2010 – Desiree calls on Terri once again to cooperate with authorities.
Kyron’s mom pleads with Terri to “do what is right”
July 8, 2010 – Kaine and Desiree put the pressure on Terri during a news conference.
Family: Terri Horman failed polygraphs; ‘she’s lying’
July 8, 2010 – In a restraining order filed against Terri, Kaine writes “I believe the respondent is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4th.”
Kaine Horman: Terri ‘involved’ in Kyron’s disappearance
July 9, 2010 – Sources reveal that investigators have collected surveillance videos from local grocery stores in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Surveillance collected for Kyron case
July 9, 2010 -KATU News reporter Dan Tilkin attempts to ask Kyron’s stepmother, Terri Horman, about her polygraph tests and if she knows where Kyron is.
Terri Horman refuses to answer reporter’s questions
July 10, 2010 – In an interview with ABC, Kaine Horman suggests Terri Horman may have suffered from some form of post-partum depression.
Was Terri Horman suffering from post-partum depression?
July 12, 2010 – Kaine Horman files a motion accusing Terri Horman of violating a restraining order against her by carrying on a sexual relationship with one of his childhood friends, sharing sealed legal information and trying to kidnap their daughter.
Court doc: Kaine accuses Terri of sexual affair
July 13, 2010 – Terri now wants money from her estranged husband, Kaine Horman, to move out of the family home.
Terri now wants money from Kaine
July 15, 2010 – Kaine Horman seeks to remove Terri Horman from family home immediately
Documents: Kaine wants Terri out of the house immediately
Sheriff asks for news footage from day Kyron vanished
July 16, 2010 – Her move came after agreeing with her estranged husband, Kaine, on Friday to move out of the family home this weekend.
Terri Horman moves out, returns to Roseburg
Former detective doubts media video help’s Kyron Investigation
Kaine Horman answers KATU’s questions
July 17, 2010 – The father of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman says he believes a third party was involved along with his estranged wife in the disappearance of the child six weeks ago; meanwhile, Terri Horman has returned to her hometown of Roseburg.
Terri now in Roseburg; Kaine says 3rd party involved
July 22, 2010 – A close friend of Terri Horman’s, Dede Spicher, comes under the microscope.
Kyron’s family implores Terri’s friend to cooperate with police
July 23, 2010 – There has long been questions about Terri Horman’s whereabouts the day her stepson disappeared. Sources give us a look at her movements that day.
Sources detail Terri’s timeline day Kyron disappeared
July 26, 2010 – Kaine Horman finds out that Terri Horman paid $350,000 to retain her attorney and he wants to know where she got the money.
Kaine documents: Terri paid $350,000 to retain her attorney
July 27, 2010 – The reward in the case is increased from $25,000 to $50,000, thanks to an anonymous donor.
$50K reward now offered to find Kyron
July 28, 2010 – A lawyer representing Terri Horman, the stepmother of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman, has filed a motion to set aside the divorce matter between her and Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, until a later date.
Court docs: Terri Horman wants delay in divorce matter
http://www.katu.com/home/related/98685949.html
More defined:
I was merely pointing out some problems that I detected, which could give rise to other things not being as they appear.
One step further, I was not implying that, therefore, Terri harmed Kyron because of any potential DV issues. Further, I don’t think she hurt him.
I am also not of the belief that just because a person may have been abused in there early years makes them vulnerable to be an abuser. I completely disagree with that. I an abused person becomes an abuser, I believe they are hard-wired to be so.
Sorry, just wanted to be more clear.
Catching up here….
So, what I’m gathering here…. DeDe took Kyron…whether she sent someone to take him, Terri told Kyron to meet her…whatever. Ultimately, Kyron ended up with AS-S?
Then, as to the Kaine Camp/Terri camp…. My nephews dad was married to a psychotic, HORRID woman. Her ex contacted me trying to get my sister to look into her history & not to let her son live with this woman, (she tried to kill him several times, etc. My sister tried, but made some selfish choices on her own part…drugs/alchohol & ended up losing primary custody of her son. Several years of endured abuse…I contacted his school & asked them to be his eyes & ears. They told me that I am “only his aunt” & they
couldn’t even talk to me. I lived several hours away & even all these years later am kicking myself in the butt for not driving up there…figuring something out. My sister got clean & her ex ended up sending their son to live with her…things had gotten so bad. He finally got the courage to leave the crazy woman…it’s only been a couple of years…he has other children with her & she is STILL pulling crazy crap. On top of all of this…this woman is STILL allowed to run a day care. I still have anger with my sister & her husband that they didn’t try harder for their son, but I’m thankful that he’s out of there now. He had to testify about her at his dads divorce hearing. Heartbreaking to see a 15yo boy struggle to tell a story of abuse & pain. She ended up with joint custody of the two children with his father. Twisted. All of that said…I had nightmares of her doing something similar to what ever happened to Kyron. When my (ex) brother in law would bring my nephew to visit, or I would go pick him up…my ex brother in law was not allowed to communicate with me at all…all communication was through her. He was a strong man turned into a whipped puppy. I don’t get that from Kaine Horman – he’s not a whipped puppy. He chose to turn a blind eye to Terri’s actions…for whatever reason. He looks like he has suffered so much guilt. He knows that he is in some way responsible…he failed his son. Hopefully, he can use that guilt to shed more light (to LE) on whatever was happening with Terri….
Blink: VERY well said. All of us have bad things and bad people happen in our lives; it is how we respond to those catalysts that define who we are; it is how we respond that shows our character and our virtue (or lack thereof); it is how we respond that reflects our true spirit and nature.
I have had a number of “bad” things happen, but from each bad thing came a good thing–faith is, to me, about knowing and trusting that this too shall pass and the way will become clear. I’m not saying just take whatever comes at you, but I am saying be true to yourself and ask for help and find the next path when something bad does happen.
I’m always telling my children, “It’s not the stuff you get “right” it’s how you respond to the things you get wrong.” Excellent advice Blink, omg, I love you forever
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@Kim in PA
“I think LE has known the truth from day one. They just need solid evidence.”
I agree. If, in fact, LE knows that TH murdered — perhaps even tortured — her stepson, they will want a conviction at all costs. They only get one bite at the apple.
@Jackie Bauer
Your insights and comments always resonate with me. Thanks!
Just some questions I am pondering w/ regards to e-mail KATU obtained …
In the April 6 e-mail obtained by KATU News, Terri writes the following about Kaine: “I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. >>I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn’t – >>>spent all of my 30k to do so. …
Q HOW could you:… “stayed home w/ Kyron @ BIRTH” … when HIS MOTHER had CUSTODY ?
Q: So, where did “that” 30K come from IF you had NO MONEY ?
“I am The one who was able to get him glasses (I noticed at 6 months >>when I was working with him but Kaine wouldn’t go in to a doc until he was 2 years – yeah – he’s farsighted 750)). He’s on me about being fat. >>Wants me to do another show. Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it’s my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”
Q; What was she WORKING “ON” with him (Kyron) ?”
Q; WHAT is “another show” ?
Q: … “CLEANING GUTTERS” ? Really …?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html
Sorry if it’s a duplicate source, but I hadn’t seen but a few clips in news reports, of the full Kaine interview from yesterday.
Whatever has gone on, whatever is going on, Kaine is doing his job for Kyron right now. This is an inportant interview ‘for’ Kyron, to keep his face out in the public as holiday season comes along. He’s keeping up with events to spread the word, he says ‘email the website’ if you want to do something, and ask for flyers– “we’ll ship them out to you”.
This is the important discussion, not trying to figure out ‘why’ and who failed.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx
I just watched Kaines’ presser at the wall of hope on Monday. following are some of my thoughts about things that Kaine said during the presser.
TH was drinking and passing out every night, and it never occurred to Kaine that she had an alcohol problem until he talked to friends about it? Pleaseee. Kaine shared all of his info with Desiree huh?, Didn’t she say that she didn’t know anything, about TH’s alcohol problems. Desiree was never serious about changing Kyron’s custody agreement and she agreed with Kaine not to change it? ( WTH, thats not what DY said). Is Kaine calling desiree a liar? If so tend believe Desiree over Kaine,
If he is misleading people because he doesn’t want the public to know how controlling he really was, and about his disregard for Kyron and Kitty’s safety ( being in the care of TH an alcoholic psyco), then he needs to stop saying things that don’t ring true. Because to me he is starting to sound like the liar that he says TH is. JMO
Mom 3.0~ The only thing a lot of people are forgetting is that Kaine & Terri had a different type of lifestyle than is normally acceptable
the swinging life style “if all this is true ” the bars they frequented and associates they hung with ~ You are not looking at an innocently naive man here or woman ~! from all we have learned “if true” they both have been around and around the block a few times so I really think Kaine knew what Terri was all about ~imo
“Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?’
))))))))))))))))
Maybe Kyron saw or heard something earlier in the wk,and Terri knew it. Caught him listening in, or he told her he knew and was gonna tell,but couldnt say anything about it to his dad, cause lets face it, seems that Kaine refused to see what was going on in his home, and could have been the person to side always with the wife. (My mom is bipolar, and GOD knows what else, my dad has been married to her for 45yrs. Loves her to death, as We all do. She has 4 girls,I’m the baby at 27yo. She has always,since the day we were born,compeated against us for our father affections. Would even lie to him about things we did or said if she was mad at us, just so he would be mad at us, still does this to this day. He always knew she was wrong, and still always took her side. We never got in trouble,which sure pissed her off(as it could have Terri) but it was obvious her side was taken.) Kyron could have felt like he couldnt tell his dad, but he could tell his momma. Terri had to do something before Ky got to his momma.
IDK-just throwing some things out there.
OR you could be exactly right, and she may not have been directly involved, but let the monster in that was.
@Madilu
Yup. That’s my take on what happened. IMO, everything about this case seems to scream premeditation on the part of Terri Horman. While there is so much that the public doesn’t yet know, your scenario seems entirely plausible — the simplest explanation of what happened given the facts that we do know. I don’t, however, see how it could have been Terri on that dead-end cul-de-sac in the wee hours of the next morning. That’s why even before we knew about DeDe, I wondered if TH could have had a female accomplice.
Mme. C
Plus, I wonder if he would be able to tell the truth without bending it to suit the day~ He has not been a very successful liar ~! He tells them too fast to even remember what he said so he can cover himself~ I dont think he or Terri are trustworthy or believable people ~ I think Desiree stepped away & when she did her eyes were able to see “without Kaines influence” and her ears were able to hear~
After all dont forget why she divorced him ~!!! my own opinion I feel so sorry over the pain Kyron was put through,daily because of adults acting selfishly~!
20.Redrock says:
November 16, 2010 at 12:58 pm
_____________________
GREAT point
I continue to find it completely amazing that both Kaine and Desiree believe Kyron is alive. Major denial.
@Madilu and Kim in PA
I’m with you regarding TH’s involvement. I know Blink says Kyron did not leave the school with Terri. Also, LE has said TH was the last person to see Ky. I believe before TH left the school she told Ky to meet her at the truck for his Dr. Appointment…they left the school grounds together. According to FB she made a post at 9:01 am June 4th. By 9:10 am she has a receipt from FM1. FM2 was lucky for TH as she ran into Andrea Leckey but IMO she staged her alibi every step of the way. What she didn’t count on was Kurtis telling the teacher Ky told him he had a Drs. appointment that day. “When first we practice to deceive”.
I hope justice is served…soon.
I dont think that it will help the investigation if Kaine and Desiree turn on eachother. I think they need to keep working together. Thats the way Kyron would want it. As long as they stand apart the “monster” is winning. We can all tell by watching them, and listening to their voices, they both carry their own guilt. I dont think any of us have the right to judge ones guilt against the others, or say who is more responsible (other than the monster(s) who took Kyron). I do understand the anger that DY has to feel toward KH for not being forward with her, and telling the truth. I also can see that DY is full of her own guilt. I think it would be best for the investigation for them to talk it out, apologize, come clean, as long as it takes, and get along, and bring Kyron home. After all I am sure that is what KYRON would want.
40.Kimberly says:
November 16, 2010 at 10:58 am
Would love to know the material type of container they are/were looking for! Plastic? Metal?
Doubtful it is metal. Depending on the size of the container it would show up in a field water test, and is fairly easy to spot either aerially or with side-scan.
B
***********************************************************
Thanks Blink,
I just dont understand Kaine or Terri .. they did both go to the gym just days after Kyron went missing. You can see clearly in this video they are in work out clothing. How can one eat or sleep at a time like this. You have to eat to be able to work out..
http://www.katu.com/news/local/96033344.html?tab=video
and this
Larry Moulton of Roseburg, the father of the boy’s stepmother, said investigators urged the family to avoid the spotlight. But Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton said that’s not true. A sheriff’s captain who has been working with the family “had a conversation with them and that’s when they decided to talk to the media,” he said.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_family_makes_emo.html
I don’t recall if I ever said this out loud or if anyone else has, but it has crossed my mind more than once that TH took out a hit on Kaine with a not so bright hitperson who thought Kyron was the hit. Kaine, Kyron–they sound a lot alike to a dumbass. Just a thought.
“33.ccane says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:00 pm”
Thanks, that’s what was bugging me. I’ve read these “facts” over such a long period of time, that my middle-aged recall is flagging. But I knew something was giving me a bad case of cognitive dissonance here. The time of day bugged me before, but I hadn’t put the date problem together yet.
They published Dede flyers and truck flyers and Terri flyers and to date, they cannot and do not have a witness or shred of evidence that Kyron left with her. They are looking for a 3rd person because there IS a third person.
B
*************************************************
3rd person could simply be her new flavor of the week and perhaps they pulled some kind of Thomas Crown affair at the school with the white trucks.
**************************************************
9.Idahogal says:
November 16, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Would TH be sending out these emails if she planned to act out against Ky? ~~~~Great point Idahogal but would she have sent the e-mails about Kaine if she intended to have him murdered. Now i’m starting to question the MFH scenario.
Would TH plan to harm Ky and NOT plan an alibi for her time that day? ~~~~~She had an alibi getting a receipt at the 1st FM, making sure she was seen at the 2nd FM, going to the gym, posting on FB when she got home. Perhaps she thought if she had an alibi for most of her day she’d be golden or perhaps something went amiss with her plan after she left FM2. What if she had her flavor of the week agree to get Kyron out of school, drug him or TH may have drugged him before leaving school, place him in a container, but couldn’t get her flavor of the week to agree to physically murder Kyron or dispose of Kyron. Maybe that’s when her plan fell apart.
Would TH harm Ky while Kitty is sitting there in the truck?~~~~ I tend to think Kyron was in another vehicle inside a container and TH met that other vehicle somewhere after FM2 to pick up the container and dispose of it on SI.
Would TH have time to get from FM 2 to Sauvie, do something, and back to the gym by the FM 2 in approx. 90 minutes?~~~ From what I understand the drive is doable from FM2 and if she was just tossing him into the water I don’t think it would take but 2 minutes to do that.
Would TH go to Sauvie and elsewhere to harm Ky with her cell phone pinging away? She knows from what she has read and watched on TV that cell phone pinging is a huge tool for LE.~~~ I thought I read that they didn’t have TV’s in the Horman house. Also, I remember a post from Blink about the possibility it wasn’t her phone. I mean she was in Kaine’s truck, perhaps he left his phone in the truck unbeknownst to TH, if it were on silent mode she wouldn’t have known it was in there if tucked under a seat or something.
Would TH talk to DY about sending Ky to Medford to live if she was going to harm him?~~~ Perhaps DY’s inability to convince Kaine to give her custody put TH over the edge and she met her breaking point.
Not throwing tomatoes Idahogal…just trying a new perspective and your post seemed to be a good starting point for me. I’m stuck on the letters and would love to actually see them. If TH was truly harboring hate for DY and Kyron seems to me she would have a direct hand in this.
@Madilu and Kim in PA- I agree with your theories. I think it was all spurred by anger at Kaine. She wanted him gone- she tried- it didn’t happen- she mulled it over for a few months- something happened between her and Kaine-(maybe she watched a CSI show and got the idea) and then carried it out pretty much the way you described. She wanted to hurt Kaine badly and she disliked Kyron. I think its a pretty simple scenario. Everyone who is concocting all these convoluted reasons and psychological scenarios have great imaginations but I believe it was pure anger and she wanted to get rid of all of them.
@ Jackie Bauer, November 16, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Re: YOUR ENTIRE COMMENT…
Ms. Bauer… your comment has brought tears to my eyes. Kyron’s disappearance has deeply affected me – in so many, many ways. I am truly heart broken for him, and all that has happened to him.
Your words in this particular comment have touched so many areas in my life at this moment in time. Please do not ever stop posting. Today, you shed some light in my dark tunnel.
thank you.
God be with you, Kyron. You are in the hearts of many, always.
We love you.
I don’t think that TH planned this too far in advance if in fact she planned it at all. What if she did do the MFH plot but changed her mind at the last minute. But they came to her and told her she owed them $$$ anyway. Since she didn’t have the funds, perhaps they threatened her by saying they would hurt the baby. She panicked and traded Kyron for Kitty, setting him up where they could find him. Mayby that is also why she is not pushing for Kitty at this time, she is still afraid. Reaching, I know.
As most of us do, I question everything including my own past views. Some of my thoughts haven’t changed, some have been reshaped by new information, while others have “flown the coop”.
————
Blink says:
Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B
——————-
(I thought he was going to California first, but my answer doesn’t depend on where he was going next.)
Here are some of my previous comments which still seem to apply even though written so long ago.
July 27, 2010 post:
“Re motivation – I don’t see Terri hating anyone enough to do all this planning and risking getting herself caught, unless it’s Kyron “getting on her nerves”. I can see her having little or no great love for anyone in the family (including Kiara) which would normally act as a restraint and cause her NOT to do risky and horrible things. I can see her being motivated by what’s in it for her – financially and emotionally, or eventually even self-preservation. Without empathy for others (conscience) and if she does either love or hate herself (it happens in both instances), she could rationalize/excuse any of her actions. It’s more complicated than that, but searching through a menu of motives as viewed by “normal” people may not help much. Some people are quite capable of role-playing a “good life” without even realizing they are, but when the “script” takes an unexpected turn (as life always does), they are totally lost and either have to seek help or make a mess of everything, leaving others to wonder if they ever really knew this person at all.”
August 6th post:
“The unanswerable question I would most like answered (other than the obvious) is what changed about Terri that caused such a change in Kyron’s behavior (in Medford) before his disappearance – something that was different from anything he might not have liked about her before. It was either a scary pattern that he didn’t know how to describe, or something that made him very afraid to tell. It might have been due to Terri’s actions or her lack of protecting him from someone else. On a day to day basis, she should have been his first line of defense against harm.”
August 14th post:
“No disrespect, but before we get too hung up on blaming Desiree for not trying to get custody of Kyron back, let us not forget that unless she had significant evidence that Kaine was a dangerous and totally unfit parent to Kyron (it takes a lot more than “he married a liar” or other issues between adults), then Kyron would have spent a great deal of time there anyway, including times when Kaine was not at home. Since the existence of Terri’s risky behaviors had nothing to do with Kyron being around, he would still have had some exposure to them (including the MFH) and to her parenting, such as it was. At that point, no one had enough evidence to indicate to Kaine or a judge that Terri was a threat to Kyron.
“Going to court should be a last resort. If Kyron were just starting to express his feelings about going back to Portland after visits, and not able to articulate the problems, I think most parents who are not looking at this in hindsight would hang in there and try to learn more about his feelings and whether they were temporary for some reason. Summer vacation was coming, along with more time to talk to his trusted adults. Kaine may not have been as trusted in that respect if Terri had said enough to Kyron to raise doubts, especially after James left. (You know if you don’t keep this secret or behave as I say, your dad will find a place to send you, like he did James, and it won’t be to your mom’s – she’s not in charge of you . . . )”
——————————————
My belief since July has been that Tony would have found out something on the fishing trip – something Kyron had been too afraid or unsure to tell so far. I believe that Terri was realizing that intimidation and confusion were not going to keep Kyron from talking to his mom and Tony, and that she could not even risk another weekend visit. I think she wanted to convince everyone it was Kaine’s fault, but I don’t believe Kyron was afraid of Kaine. I do believe enough happened at home to possibly convince Kyron that Kaine could not or would not believe him or protect him from Terri if he (Kyron) tried to talk to him.
I think the answer is in Blink’s question: “Does it make sense to anyone else . . .” IMO, you cannot analyze what Terri does or writes or says according to “making sense” and hope to get your answer. I’m not saying she is without logic or pattern, but ask yourself first, “If I were alcoholic/disturbed/off balance/personality disordered/morally challenged/abused or abusing, or whatever you believe her problem is, THEN would it make sense?
To me it would make sense no matter what schedule was coming up, if she hated him enough and/or blamed him for her problems as she perceived them to be. It would also make sense if she realized he was nearly ready to tell enough to get her (and maybe others) in a lot of trouble – it would take very little for Desiree and Tony to step in at that point, and it appears there may have been much more than “a little” to tell.
————————————————
I believe Desiree when she says Terri called and asked her to let Kyron live with them, but I have doubts that Terri said that to Kaine and I suspect she would have denied it. My guess is that Terri made the call or calls to Desiree in her role as the “loving stepparent” and made it sound like she was only thinking of Kyron’s happiness. Terri obviously didn’t tell Desiree enough to give her reason to think she could get custody or modify the visitation, or that she would help her. Unless a judge had a lot more to go on, they would have still split summers and weekends/holidays, which is a lot of time to still be with Terri.
I was sorry to read that Desiree said in her phone conversation with KATU: “Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron.”
This hints at additional guilt Desiree may feel she must accept. Terri tries to give away guilt as though it is the flu and seems to want everyone else to be catch it and be as miserable as she is. There is no way Desiree could have known that or proved it, or done anything about it – IF it is even true. It is much less likely than the possibility that Kyron became the “family scapegoat” to Terri as part of being an alcoholic in a family environment. Given all we’ve learned, it is also more likely that if Terri were “transferring her hate” to Kyron, it would be because of Kaine, not Desiree.
Just an interesting comment I noted during Kaine’s talk with the press yesterday.
He was talking about the searches at Sauvie Island, and mentioned that these searches could possibly continue for months to come.
He said … “Sauvie Island is huge – it’s bigger than Manhattan island.”
I knew Sauvie Island was big … and the conditions rugged, but it really is a huge area.
Sauvie Island = about 32.75 sq miles
Manhattan = about 23 sq miles
I have frequently gone back and studied the maps + pictures of Oregon with attention to Portland/Sauvie Island/Multnomah and the surrounding counties during the past 5 months — whenever new area’s of interest were mention in the media, etc.
But even after looking the area so many times in maps/pictures – I still didn’t have a feel for how HUGE a task it is for LE/SAR to cover all the places on Sauvie Island of interest.
And then there is the terrain that makes up Sauvie Island … largely a marshy wetland with so many creeks, canals, inlets, lakes, miles of shoreline .etc.
The weather is another obstacle.
THANK YOU to all the local, state, and federal LE and SAR professionals who are looking for precious Kyron.
God Bless you all.
—– —– —– —– —– —– —–
Kaine Horman said that effort could continue for months to come.
http://www.kptv.com/news/25797873/detail.html
“Sauvie Island is huge — it’s bigger than Manhattan island,” he said. “I would imagine at this point in time that the search on Sauvie Island will continue until they cover all of the areas that they need to cover or until they find something.”
“Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My thoughts: In my experience, violent crimes/motives for violent crimes against children don’t make sense to those of us who have a conscience. Almost every case I have seen involves a perpetrator who ultimately puts his/her own desires/wants/needs above the well-being of the child.
BTW, I thought I read or heard early on that Ky was supposed to be with KH and TMH immediately after school ended this year. But, I don’t think that matters at all in this equation *IF* she is the perpetrator. Psychologically speaking, *IF* she truly despised this child and saw him as an unwanted intruder in her marriage/her life, a respite of a few weeks would mean nothing to her.
Apparently, by phone, DY told a reporter at KATU News that TMH wrote about harming Kyron:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html
I guess each of us will make of this what we will. I am sure we will learn even more in the days to come.
Ya’ll lay in an extra bushel of rotten tomatoes. ‘Cause I’m gonna have to show my hand and say I think what Twinkletoes (hi!) and Blink said makes the most sense to me, too.
It was possible that Ky was stalked in the neighborhood; and/or “watched” around school. School was almost out. It was gonna be a long summer with families going on vacation. Ky kept close to the house (Desiree said) due to his vision; he was well cared for in at least the sense that parents knew where he was.
School was the best (almost: the only) place to grab him. (For whatever motivation.) The Science Fair day was perfect! Especially for someone who Ky knew and who’d be accepted as a normal visitor that day.
I think it’s a highly plausible theory. I just don’t know if the facts, when known, support it. And right now I hate to say it, but I just see LE looking so far from having a case that can be won…
Dribbling out this evidence–are they hoping someone will screw up? confess? By now, surely they can’t hope for any info from Terri, so how do they think this will help?
Just my thoughts….this case is so infuriatingly confusing.
Police are allowed to “lie” within specific boundaries to either encourage a suspect to provide more information, or to confess to a crime. There are several court cases, such as Lynuum v. Illinois, Spano v. New York, that side with a defendent — indicating that police cannot fabricate totally unrelated claims (not related to a case) to secure a confession (lies that cause duress, coercion, etc.). Police can, however, fib in relation to the case itself to pull a confession out of a suspect — Frazier v. Cupp is a good case to reference about that. A website cruise on this subject fleshes out these cases and the fine line between outright lying and lying about the details of those involved in the crime as suspects. It’s tricky business for law enforcement indeed.
All through this case, I’ve assumed that trained LE has played every hand it’s had to both find Kyron and have a case they can prosecute.
The have four adult parents to talk to and question. They have thus four different ways to tweak facts, or simply fib a few times, to get the information they need to both find Kyron and to charge the right person with the right crime.
They have who knows how many other people in this case, as the sheriff suggested back in September.
So I’m thinking back on the sheriff’s comment that they weren’t sure whether they would pursue investigations against other persons surrounding this case, and that he seemed to suggest that they were looking at a LOT of things associated with Kyron’s disappearance and not just Kyron’s disappearance.
Is Kaine Horman, all along, one of those “other investigations” that the sheriff was referring to?
Seems that if Staton and his team had encountered the huge mess that he says they encountered when he held that big PC in September, the “surprise” he spoke about could have something to do with Kaine.
And that we would all look back, as he said, and think.
Would we think….”we never thought for a moment that Kaine was anything but a terrific guy victimized by a banshee second wife!”
This will all lead to Kyron. Kyron’s case apparently is a huge pile of information involving many people, and that “surprised” feeling that the sheriff suggested we will experience would not be about Terri Horman, who by then was already in public naked on the hot coals and a hated woman.
@Carol says:
November 16, 2010 at 1:57 pm
“…All we have is another TV appearance by DY who has been known to embellish in the past…”
-> with respect, can you share when DY embellished in the past?
Midwest Mom: “DY and KH said the comment by Amanda Howard was said to be a lie told by TH.”
___________________________
I remember. TH told a number of lies to a number of people. She and Amanda had a bond of shared misery at the hands of a Horman man, though!
*******************************
@ PA says:
November 16, 2010 at 1:28 pm
IIRC, Kaine said that he and Kyron were going on an extended trip to CA after school got out. Perhaps they were going to split the summer up differently this year.
_________________________
Yes, and Desiree had an August vacation planned (on houseboat? that might be wrong). Maybe Kaine forgot the switcheroo for this summer.
The timing of poor Kyron’s fate has always troubled me as well–the fact that he was snatched so, so close to the end of the school year. Perhaps this time was chosen because time was running out. In other words, TH did want him GONE–I can hardly bear to write that. It had to be this week on this day because the following week would be busy with end of the school year events, picnics, assemblies, etc. I don’t think it was enough for Terri just to have Kyron gone for a few weeks. Could Terri have been worried that IF Kyron made it to his mom’s house for the weekend, mom (DY) might just decide to keep him out of school the following weeks. Many moms know, myself included, that not much learning takes place that last week of school. Bless this sweet little boy.
_____________________
I have NEVER in my life seen such a look of horror and desperation on the face of a human being such as I see when I look at photos of KH–he looks like the walking dead to me, as if a cancer has taken over his whole being.
11.Jackie Bauer
says:
November 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ditto. Well said, Jackie!
50.S says:
November 15, 2010 at 10:15 pm
“…I’m back to contemplating my initial reaction after the first 48 hours. That this poor little boy, did some kid thing, like forget his lunch, the signed paper for the teacher or peed his pants. He got a Damn it, Kyron, go out that door and I’ll pull the truck around so not everyone sees what a f’in baby you are. She beat him in the truck, went home, finished silencing him, bagged him up, drove around trying to figure out what to do and what to buy and eventually dropped her problem and him somewhere in the water at SI or ??? I know this sounds sick, because it is, but it eliminates all those “others.” At one time I believed RS was a key player, but I can’t believe he was directly involved and got full immunity either. I don’t think there were killers for hire stalking her or lovers waiting in the shadows to aid in the killing of a child. Terri Hormon could do all of this, all by herself.
I think LE believes she murdered him. I think they and the DA have used the GJ to find out everything they possibly could. I think they had hoped to find Kyron’s body…”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@S: IMO, what you wrote is every bit as feasible as any other theory I have read on this site. I can picture this scenario…with perhaps a little help from a friend? Perhaps said friend has spilled some of the beans and has indicated that this poor baby is in the water at Sauvie. MOO.
But, then again, who really knows at this point?
Something has been bugging me for along time. Blink is certain that Kyron did not leave the school with TH. The theory that she purposely confused the Dr appointment, told Kyron to wait for her in the truck and then proceeded to hand him off to someone hs been my theory of choice all along. The “vampire” thing bothers me, she certainly rubbed elbows with a strange mix of characters and the LS and MFH stuff. If true there has to be some connection. Comments I’ve read say that “you don’t just call off a MFH, somebody is getting hurt and somebody is going to pay”. Now these emails expressing how much she hated Kyron. Who did she send these emails to? Who else did she say this to. If kyron didn’t leave that school with TH, was it with someone who wanted to set it up to make it look like she did it. I mean the same bunch involved in the MFH. Maybe I’m throwing out a line of thinking that was long ago discounted as not a option. The reason I think it’s not resonable is who could he leave with that wouldn’t seem odd to anyone in the parking lot? And, most importantly, WHY would Kyron, being a shy, timid little boy do something so out of the ordinary. Walk away from TH toward his classroom and then be lured out a back door with someone while the SF was going on? If this is a road ya’ll have covered don’t feel obligated to reply, but Blink knows awhole bunch more than I do about this case and cases like it and if Blink thinks Kyron did not leave that school with Terri Hormon than how? (The LS’s wife and kids missing is bothersome too) Too many snakes in this pond and they all look alike.
I have gathered numerous ‘articles’ on DY & KH Monday media events. I felt reading them ‘together’ things stand out better.
It may just be me but I see KH’s ‘spin’ is way DIFFERENT than DY’s and I agree w/ others who say their not believing what most any one is saying unless it comes from vetted DA/LE. My one disclaimer is DY, I believe she has been truthful with what she knows @ the time. I believe she realizes KH’s betrayal for not being truthful to her about Kyron & TMH. For her to find out even AFTER Kyron’s disappearance he STILL was NOT telling her the truth is … well you can fill in the blank w/ your chosen word(s).
My question is how could he do THAT ? Why would he do that ? Did he really believe she would never be told/ never find out ? Talk about ‘kicking someone when they are down’ … what a ‘stab in the back’ behavior he shown toward her.
One minute he is saying ‘this’ & than turns around changing it to ‘that’.
Also, he again is “correcting her”. An example is :
“KH also touched on custody issues brought forth in DY’s morning interview.”
“She (DY) did ask (about custody), but there was never a court request, there was never a legal request, it was her and I talking about what was best at the time,” Kh said.”
“And, based on that circumstance–he was gone (with DY) for six or seven weeks and then coming back home–HE MISSED HIS MOM, it’s NOT ENOUGH GROUNDS for ‘hey we need to switch custody.’”
-AND-
“DY also revealed that she tried to get custody of Kyron a year before he vanished but KH wouldn’t allow it.”
“Kyron on many occasions said he wanted to live with me,” she said.
“KH said he ONLY REMEMBERS ONE such REQUEST about 14 months ago after Kyron spent the summer with DY.”
“There was an INCIDENT between Kyron and TMH that I believe kind of FUELED the discussion at the time – where THEY HAD A DISAGREEMENT when I was out on a business trip,” he said.”
-AND-
“He said things were SO TENSE with TMH that Kyron WOULD CALL CALL HIS MOTHER, DY, and ASK TO LIVE WITH HER.”
-So, KH says it was just ONE time discussion but @ least for me, this sounds like MORE THAN 1 “INCIDENT” about custody.
He also spoke about “I do not think the divorce is a distraction but part of the process…”
-AND-
“Her attorney will not let me speak to JM … I want to & I know he wants to but they are preventing it …”
[Could Houze be keeping JM away so he cannot talk about what he saw, heard, knows ?]
JMHO … questioning … and trying to ‘understand other’s behavior & statements’ while Kyron is still not home.
Where are you little man, your Momma needs you more than ever.
______________________________________________
“The father of missing Portland boy Kyron says the RELATIONSHIP between his wife and son was STRAINED PRIOR prior to the boy’s DISAPPEARANCE.”
“…KH said he had ARGUMENTS with his wife about how he found her RELATIONSHIP with their children “UNACCEPTABLE.”
“He says he has been briefed on e-mails and phone calls TMH has had with other people and that they’ve contributed to his BELIEF that his estranged wife is an ALCOHOLIC. While he didn’t go into specifics, KH DESCRIBED the e-mails as detailing TH’s FRUSTRATION with Kyron and HER BELIEF that the BOY WAS A PROBLEM in HER MARRIAGE.”
“He said things were SO TENSE with TMH that Kyron WOULD CALL CALL HIS MOTHER, DY, and ASK TO LIVE WITH HER.”
““She (TMH) and I were getting into ARGUMENTS ALL THE TIME about HER RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE CHILDREN IN GENERAL and how I WASN’T FINDING IT ACCEPTABLE,” Kaine Horman says.”
“For the fist time, DY criticized KH and ACCUSED him of putting their SON IN DANGER.”
“I just can’t stand by and support the choices that he’s making. He had several opportunities to let (husband) Tony and I know what was going on and he did not,” DY says.”
http://www.kptv.com/kyron-horman/25797873/detail.html
_________________________
Article & video (8:37mins) @ link from the Oregonian … Headline reads:
“Kyron’s parents — Kaine Horman and Desiree Young — at odds in separate media appearances”
“KH and DY — speaking solo several hundred miles apart — voiced DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW.”
“This is the first time … that his parents have held DUELING media appearances.”
“I just CAN’T STAND BY & SUPPORT THE CHOICE’S HE’S MAKING,” DY said. “He had SEVERAL OPPORTUNITIES to let Tony and I KNOW WHAT was GOING ON and he DID NOT,” she said, referring to her husband, TY.”
“KH said he has never withheld information …”
“He will “NOT COMMENT” how LONG AGO-or- WHEN he saw the e-mail(s) that DY spoke about on the Today SHOW.”
“In previous interviews, KH said he learned that TH SECRETLY DRANK in 2005 while competing in a bodybuilding contest … KH said things were FINE after that UNTIL TMH GAVE BIRTH to Kiara in 2008.”
“But on Monday he indicated that things were NOT FINE.”
“He said that he had OBSERVED “BEHAVIORS” but that ONLY RECENTLY, in conversations with family and friends, did he START to THINK she WAS an ALCOHOLIC.”
“I think the ALCOHOL was the TIP of the ICEBERG,” he said.
“All of a sudden it comes right into focus,” he said. “We’re dealing with someone who is a master of deception.”
“He accused his estranged wife, AGAIN, of being a DEMANDING mother and stepmother, carrying out “INAPPROPRIATE PUNISHMENT.”
>>”It was EXCESSIVE IN NATURE,” he said, adding Kyron SUFFERED.”
“KH said … he NEVER felt that his estranged wife posed a THREAT to Kyron.”
“I didn’t feel he was in DANGER,” he said
“It is EVIDENT the relationship between them was STRAINED,” he said.”
He feels he “was married to a complete stranger”.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kyrons_parents_–_kaine_horman.html
________________________________
“There is NO information I have that she doesn’t have …. except for the fact that I have lived w/ TMH for a number of years…”
“KH said it is just the last month or so that it became “CRYSTAL CLEAR” about TMH ALCOHOLISM … the alcoholism is the START not the END …”
“Her (TMH’s) relationships with the children in general were not acceptable,” he added.
“KH also touched on custody issues brought forth in DY’s morning interview.”
“She (Dy) did ask (about custody), but there was never a court request, there was never a legal request, it was her and I talking about what was best at the time,” Kh said.”
“And, based on that circumstance–he was gone (with DY) for six or seven weeks and then coming back home–HE MISSED HIS MOM, it’s NOT ENOUGH GROUNDS for ‘hey we need to switch custody.’”
[@ this point he becomes more agitated with the questions about his "arrangement" w/DY]
http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx
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“KH said he PICKED UP on the TENSION between TMH and Kyron.”
“Her and I were getting into arguments all the time about her relationships with the children in general, and I wasn’t finding it acceptable.”
“But KH said he never had a reason to worry.”
“Kyron’s mother, DY, said investigators shared e-mails with her that TMH sent friends. She said in them TMH talked about HURTING Kyron. DY said she now believes TMH is capable of doing so.”
“Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about HURTING him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,” she told KATU News Monday evening by phone. “I don’t understand how you can feel that way about a 7-year-old.”
“DY said it is now clear that TMH DISLIKES HER and believes she TRANSFERRED that to Kyron.”
“I no longer had that little part of me that hoped she hadn’t done anything to Kyron,” DY said after she read the e-mails. “I realized that she is capable of hurting him. That was the hardest part about it.”
“She said she struggles with anger and guilt because she didn’t know more.”
“I’m just upset that Kyron wasn’t protected when he needed to be and unfortunately it was on KH’s WATCH.”
“She said she’s mainly upset right now by finding out things – like TMH’s alleged alcoholism – through the media and court documents and not from KH. KH said he’s not hiding anything and is just finding out all of this, too.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html
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“However, he remained adamant that his nearly 2-year-old daughter Kiara may have seen something “horrific” happen to Kyron on the day he disappeared. Kiara was with her mother, and Kyron’s stepmother, TH on that day: June 4.”
“Lay out the scenarios of everything that could have happened to him that day,” said KH Monday. “Every scenario that has him alive still today … look at any of those scenarios and have your child have to witness another child going through that right in front of their face; it’s horrific, I don’t care how you describe it. So yeah, I think he’s alive … I think it was an awful day; I sure hope she did not witness what happened that day but I’m pretty confident that she was there based upon what we know.”
“We have not yet received confirmation as to whether TMH had Kiara with her when she is believed to have gone into the science fair at Kryon’s Skyline Sch shortly before Kyron is said to have vanished.”
“KH also discussed further his recent allegations of TMH’s alcoholism, saying that for a while it seemed as if his new wife had become a stranger and he did not know who she was. He said that once he decided that alcohol was to blame, a lot of stuff started to click into place.”
“Meanwhile, the united front KH and Kyron’s mother, DY, have held in public appeared to show cracks Monday.”
“KH would not confirm the e-mails but said, “It’s very evident the relationship between them was strained, and the relationship was so strained that I saw it at least a few months out – and her and I were getting into arguments all the time about her relationships with the children in general.”
“DY also revealed that she tried to get custody of Kyron a year before he vanished but KH wouldn’t allow it.”
“Kyron on many occasions said he wanted to live with me,” she said.
“KH said he ONLY REMEMBERS ONE such REQUEST about 14 months ago after Kyron spent the summer with DY.”
“There was an INCIDENT between Kyron and TMH that I believe kind of FUELED the discussion at the time – where THEY HAD A DISAGREEMENT when I was out on a business trip,” he said.
“KH said until Kyron disappeared, he never thought Kyron and the other children were in any danger”
.
“Retired sheriff’s Capt. Bruce McCain, who has been following the Horman case from the beginning, said he doesn’t think KH and DY will talk publicly together again.”
“He said DY’s POINT in her Today Show interview was that there were OBVIOUS SIGNS that Kyron may have been IN DANGER and KH SHOULD HAVE PICKED UP ON THEM.”
“So in hindsight she’s now blaming KH for NOT GIVING HER CUSTODY WHEN HE KNEW that Kyron was potentially in HARM’S WAY & DID NOTHING ABOUT IT,” McCain said.
“When asked if she saw TMH’s alleged alcohol use, DY said, “No” but when it came to signs she may have been emotionally disturbed she said, “But as far as a personality disorder I did for years. I was aware she had some issues with pathological lying – things of that nature. But just mostly from my interactions with her, I didn’t see you know, as much as KH did.”
“So now KH is finding himself playing defense against allegations from DY that he is in part at least indirectly responsible for Kyron’s disappearance,” McCain said.
“KH said he has not been hiding anything throughout this process and said the main goal is to bring Kyron home. He said he wants to remain a united front with DY in their efforts to find Kyron.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108250924.html
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108250924.html?tab=video
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In conclusion, ‘what truths’ are we getting about WHAT was going on in Horman house ?
IMO it feels/ appears to be ‘some crazy-making talk’ from KH (no disrespect implied) but I hope he has been squeaky clean w/ LE/DA. For a guy who is always saying others should be ‘truth talking’ what they know, I hope he has not withheld ‘some of his own truth’.
The “that’s all I’m gonna say about that -or- that doesn’t have anything to do with this -or- “fill in blank” comment he has supplied to questions he does not want to discuss ie. divorce w/DY, hook up w/ TMH etc. etc. has the appearance of hiding ‘something’.
JMHO
Did Ted Bundy’s action make sense? Did the BTK killer’s actions make sense? How about John Wayne Gacy’s actions? Nothing makes sense when examining the actions of a psychopath. It is no different for TH.
Andy- TH is many things, I am not a professional, but I don’t think I need to be know there is absolutely no evidence to deduce Terri Horman is a psycopath.
B
If the boogie man had a personal interest in Terri, they would not harm Terri or Kiara. They might even think they were doing Terri a favor…
I think DeDe knows ALOT about what Terri was doing that day.
Poor little Kyron… We will always watch over you Kyron. Kyron will always be with us, helping us to watch over our own children.
I have to say that I have a bit more faith in the veracity of the outcome now that we (in the biggest sense of the word) are asking questions regarding the other parent in Kyron’s house. I have felt uncomfortable all along with the careful distribution of information along with the fact that most of the information distributed (by KH) was intended to pin TH in a corner AND seemed to be distributed (by KH) in such a way that many of almost swallowed hook, line and sinker that the information did come from LE. Kyron is not snuggled in his bed right now where he should be/. That in itself is enough for me. Whether he is still with us or not, I believe wholeheartedly that KH had a hand in Kyron’s disappearance, and that it has everything to do with power and control and “don’t you for one minute think that I will allow MY child to leave this house to live with you”.
3.Sheepdog says:
November 16, 2010 at 6:44 pm
Something has been bugging me for along time. Blink is certain that Kyron did not leave the school with TH. The theory that she purposely confused the Dr appointment, told Kyron to wait for her in the truck and then proceeded to hand him off to someone hs been my theory of choice all along. The “vampire” thing bothers me, she certainly rubbed elbows with a strange mix of characters and the LS and MFH stuff. If true there has to be some connection. Comments I’ve read say that “you don’t just call off a MFH, somebody is getting hurt and somebody is going to pay”. Now these emails expressing how much she hated Kyron. Who did she send these emails to? Who else did she say this to. If kyron didn’t leave that school with TH, was it with someone who wanted to set it up to make it look like she did it. I mean the same bunch involved in the MFH. Maybe I’m throwing out a line of thinking that was long ago discounted as not a option. The reason I think it’s not resonable is who could he leave with that wouldn’t seem odd to anyone in the parking lot? And, most importantly, WHY would Kyron, being a shy, timid little boy do something so out of the ordinary. Walk away from TH toward his classroom and then be lured out a back door with someone while the SF was going on? If this is a road ya’ll have covered don’t feel obligated to reply, but Blink knows awhole bunch more than I do about this case and cases like it and if Blink thinks Kyron did not leave that school with Terri Hormon than how? (The LS’s wife and kids missing is bothersome too) Too many snakes in this pond and they all look alike.
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@Blink
To your knowledge is it fact that LE has evidence or is convinced Kyron did not leave the school grounds with Terri? TIA.
Carol,
Would you please supply an example to your statement w/ link & explain “DY who has been known to embellish in the past” ?
What has she embellished ? Why do you have that opinion of DY ?
Thank you.
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Carol says:
November 16, 2010 at 1:57 pm
…”All we have is another TV appearance by DY who has been known to embellish in the past.”…
@Idahogal: A few of your posts just seemed so poignant to me and well spoken. I do feel a sense of community here, with support.
I think there are many who, like me, find themselves compelled to sign on and see the latest news. This is the first time I have ever followed a story like this and to some degree-it has become an addiction. That feeling of being compelled….that feeling of knowing I probably should have been doing x y or z but let it go by the wayside because I wanted to get caught up. These are all signs of addiction/addictive nature. Maybe we are just functioning addicts, seeking the truth about Kyron while living the rest of our lives off the computer.
It may well be that TMH chose computer addiction. The alcoholic from previous relationship in my life is now addicted to the internet (or has been all along.) No doubt they feel like they are not feeding any kind of harmful addiction, but it IS harmful. In the case in my life, this person is losing their home because they are so dysfunctional. In TMH case it may be that she was up all nite playing and Kitty’s behavior suffered for lack of structure and sleep.
I wont cast stones.
As far as Blinks question: why now? When she would be rid of Ky for seven or eight weeks in the summer?
This is all just MOO but-think about what summer represents to her? Ky being home all day every day m-f. She cant hang with friends like she did. She cant fool around like she did. She cant behave as an untethered adult and would have been subjected to full time care for him at the end of the summer. She was dreading it, hating it. IF she did indeed hate him, there is your motive. She prob couldnt stand taking care of him if she thought he should have been with Desiree. The science fair created opportunity in all the massive confusion, which she alludes to in her email to a friend stating that there was no organization etc (paraphrased).
Another poster also pointed out that he would be away long enough that he may have had more confidence to tell some of the things that TMH had been doing, and she felt threatened by that.
Occam tells me simply: She didn’t want to have to give up her comfy way of life doing what she wanted during the day so that she could baby sit him.
MOO
@ Grace in the Hills: You summed it up just like I’ve thought from the beginning- she escalated in the weeks prior until she took him from school. I personally think she drugged him, drove around in an adrenalized rage, then finished off her unspeakable deed. I think she placed him in a container and hauled him off into the water. At the early pressers she looked scared for herself, not numb with fear and grief like the others. I continue to feel protective of Kaine, despite all attempts to eviscerate him. Alcoholics are good at sneaking around. Especially women- they know how to hide their drinking and how to use extra makeup to cover the dark circles. What they can’t hide are the mood swings and irritability. It is indeed possible to live with one for years and have no idea. That’s why it’s referred to as a family disease. All members are affected. I think his blatant speaking out now is the result of having a horrific puzzle flung at him and feeling angrier and more helpless as each despicable piece falls into place. It’s dizzying to imagine his too-late wake up call. I cannot fault him for wanting to raise his son on a daily basis. I think Terri got progressively more awful but that it was mostly hidden from him until the end. Sorry, but I don’t find it weird or place judgment on the fact that he worked full time and left a lot of the day to day child tasks to her. My husband and I are both professionals but I’ve chosen to stay home with our daughter. He doesn’t always know what she’ll eat for lunch or what her favorite activity du jour is because it changes quickly not because he’s clueless or distant. I’m on the controlling side but he has his quirks too. Does anyone here think Kaine isn’t beating himself up every minute of every day over his choices??? The man looks like a death camp inmate. Yes, he f*ck#! up. Is there a single person here who doesn’t think Kaine would gladly change places with Ky? The court of public opinion is becoming too voyeuristic for me – don’t know that I can post more. I’m not suggesting others stop, just having my own personal feelings. Bless him, his family and all of you who love him.
11.Cassie says:
November 16, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Mom 3.0~ The only thing a lot of people are forgetting is that Kaine & Terri had a different type of lifestyle than is normally acceptable
the swinging life style “if all this is true ” the bars they frequented and associates they hung with ~ You are not looking at an innocently naive man here or woman ~! from all we have learned “if true” they both have been around and around the block a few times so I really think Kaine knew what Terri was all about ~imo
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@Cassie
I don’t think their lifestyle had anything to do with Ky’s abduction. I do believe Kaine knew what Terri was all about…it doesn’t equate to “murder”. I wish we could separate the divorce proceedings from the criminal investigation.
Kleat says:
Whatever has gone on, whatever is going on, Kaine is doing his job for Kyron right now. This is an inportant interview ‘for’ Kyron, to keep his face out in the public as holiday season comes along. He’s keeping up with events to spread the word, he says ‘email the website’ if you want to do something, and ask for flyers– “we’ll ship them out to you”.
This is the important discussion, not trying to figure out ‘why’ and who failed.
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Thank you Kleat. My thoughts exactly, but you expressed them so much better.
Oh, forgot to post this- last night on the KGW show @7pm, they said a reporter saw & spoke to TMH (yesterday).
(paraphrase) TMH said she had watch the Dateline & the Today Show & yes, she was watching it all. She said she could not make a comment on it because her attorneys have told her not to talk.
I thought this was one of the most random left field ‘snippet comments” yet.
‘Cuz I sure had not heard of ANY reporter getting any where near her in Roseburg, let alone in Portland & than to actually get her to TALK … well, I wanted more details (like when, where, how did this reporter get ‘this scoop’, for starters) but alas, that was all that was said about it.
How I wish I had the ability to tape that “blurb” on that show.
Okay, carry on.
JMHO
Jesse, here is snips from an Oregonian Newspaper story:
“Terri Moulton Horman: Kyron Horman’s stepmother is a profile in contradictions”
Published: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 10:30 PM Updated: Monday, October 04, 2010, 7:38 AM
It will answer some of your questions.
=======================
In mid-June, (Desiree would of been 5 months pregnant) a seven-month substitute teacher’s job at Lenox Elementary School ended. That same month, she met Kaine Horman at a restaurant when he was out with friends and the two started dating.
Desiree Young said that relationship broke up their marriage, but Kaine said they were already living separate lives in the same house. In August, when Desiree was 8 months pregnant, she filed for divorce.
(After being in pre-term labor for 1 1/2 months) Kyron was born Sept. 9. (3 1/2 wks early)
At the time, Terri was living in a condo in Beaverton with her son. James, who was 8, remembers Kaine bringing Kyron over to the condo as a tiny baby.
In mid-December 2002, Terri and James moved into his house in Aloha, Kaine said.
Court records show that Desiree had primary custody of Kyron after her divorce with Kaine in early 2003.
Both Kaine and Desiree said they worked out a joint arrangement: Kyron stayed with Desiree at night, was in day care and then spent two hours every afternoon at the Aloha house where Kaine was living.
In 2004, when Desiree moved to Canada to seek medical treatment, Kaine gained (Desiree says temp) custody of his son. He said he was primary caretaker, dropping Kyron off at day care and picking him up.
In mid-December 2002, Terri and James moved into his house in Aloha, Kaine said.
At the end of 2006, Kaine sold the Aloha house, and in January 2007 the family moved to rural Northwest Portland. Terri found the secluded, wooded property on Northwest Sheltered Nook Road, and Kaine bought the house.
Three months later, the couple got married in their bathing suits in a small ceremony presided over by Kaine’s dad on a beach in Kauai, Hawaii. On Mother’s Day, Kaine gave his bride a brand-new candy apple red Ford Mustang GT.
She put a vanity license plate on the car — RDSQRL — shorthand for her nickname, Red Squirrel.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
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Jesse says:
November 15, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Is it just me or does Kaine seem like such a charming and balanced guy that his surface may hide a deeper need for control and possibly some narcissism that would explain his utter objection to Desiree having custody. I CAN understand Desiree not filing to avoid any spill over onto Kyron and the visitation arrqangement that was already in place, especially if Kaine had proven to be a formidable opponent in battle previously. Do we know specifically why the marriage of K and D fell apart during her pregnancy, and thereafter?
@riverpearl
‘Cuz I sure had not heard of ANY reporter getting any where near her in Roseburg, let alone in Portland & than to actually get her to TALK … well, I wanted more details (like when, where, how did this reporter get ‘this scoop’, for starters) but alas, that was all that was said about it.
—————
This reminds me of my bafflement that in a high profile case like this, TH has not been staked out by media.
Other cases have had “not suspects” followed around.
Not one sign of her in a long time, considering that media could take pics of her if she even steps outside to get some air.
Why has TH been spared the usual media attention, which, if a person is not talking, is often no reason to keep them from just snapping photos of her?
Hey Blink, is today the day you would explain further ?
Blink says:
Nov 15, 2010 @ 2:47pm
I agree Grace, they have specific information and targets they are looking for. I have a moderate level of training in side-scan sonar, and it’s use with aerial images. They are looking for a container-like object. I have other speculations based on the area, but stating them publicly would be inappropriate today.
Thank you in advance.