Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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NelMel,
Excellent post. And for one of a few reasons, including the one you state below, leads me to believe this is not about Terri taking / harming Kyron. Frankly, the Sheriff’s words during his last statement have really helped to define the way I have looked at things — however all over the map.
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“This will all lead to Kyron. Kyron’s case apparently is a huge pile of information involving many people, and that “surprised” feeling that the sheriff suggested we will experience would not be about Terri Horman, who by then was already in public naked on the hot coals and a hated woman.”
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MissMonkey says:
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NelMel says:
November 16, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Just my thoughts….this case is so infuriatingly confusing.
Off-topic:
Possible new developments in the Natalee Holloway case …
exerpt posted IAW the fairdealings provision of the copyright act:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/11/16/aruba.bone.found/index.html?hpt=T2
“(CNN) — A jawbone found on an Aruban beach will undergo forensic testing to determine whether it is human and, if so, whether it belongs to Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway, last seen on the island in 2005, authorities said Tuesday.” …
When TMH exited the house & return to Roseburg, she left the car.
It has been discussed that (a) TMH’s attorney told her it was “bugged” & leave it (b) KH is the “holder of the note/payee” IF car is financed (c) TMH throwing KH’s “gift” back in HIS face
JMHO
___________________________
Madilu says:
November 15, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Interesting that KH is driving around her car. That’s a bit odd… I mean, just that he has possession of it…it was a gift to her from him. Wonder how he managed to retain -probably in his name?
Why drive it?
KH: “I want people to see em both…. just in case they saw it around the week or two before, the week or two following… hopefully it’ll jog someone’s memory -did they see it in that particular time frame, did they see it the weeks leading up to it, if they did and it was in a weird place where was it…anything we can do to help people think back….”
@MariaEl: Wow, really wow and thank you! You made my day letting me know that I helped you have a better day. I know I can’t help Desiree, but it’s nice to know that I did help someone. I’ve certainly had my dark moments, too, so know that you are not alone but joined in spirit by those who really do care.
Madame Clouseau: Ditto for your posts. I also enjoy reading you at Hinky.
And Riverpearl, thank you so much for asking that question re: the embellishments. I wanted to ask but was afraid I wouldn’t take the right tone with my query.
anonanon says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:32 pm
What do you make of the “he’s on me about being fat” & “he wants me to do another show”? Back to back sentences in a rant like that? Seems they go together, & I’m beginning to think KH knows SO much more.
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My opinion is that she is venting, and I can imagine, just by my own personal experience, that she wines about her situation herself daily (pun intended), and he responds by saying -then go do something about it! Get back into the body building then…” I used to be a competitive athlete, and it sucks to get older and gain weight…so when I whine about it, I hear that from others…
In fact, KH said back in August: “She was always being critical of herself and I got tired of listening to it,” he said. “She would complain about it and I would tell her, ‘You know that I don’t care what you look like. It’s who you are that’s important. Your weight doesn’t have any bearing on how I feel about you.’”
What I am more perplexed about in her emails is her, 1) still receiving child support even though her son had been out of the home for months. Say whaaaa? 2) Her thinking that she does not in any way need to contribute financially. What is her money, a, “fun fund?”
I believe in accountability. And if she was in a position to contribute to (her gym, her Internet, her car insurance, etc, at the very least) then I believe that she should as a member of the family.
And what TICKS ME OFF? Do ya really think that she was actively looking for work all the while accepting unemployment insurance, especially with all the federal extensions…she could have been on it for 2 years or more. It is a requirement in OR that you actively seek employment, have to legally attest to that fact weekly, and in some cases they follow up on documentation of job search activity. In addition, you are required to state that you are available each day for work -in order to continue receiving. Seems pretty obvious that she lied on her weekly benefits request.
How could you possibly be, “willing and able” to report to a job daily” when you have FT baby care duties? Bull-o-knee. It’s called FRAUD. And if the state wanted to, they could ask for all that money back. The other reason I believe that she was not actively pursuing any job is that KH said he did not know quite what she did during the day and that she was always on social networking and bodybuilding sites…****notice he didn’t mention careerbuilder, monster, oregonlivejobs, PPS job site, or any other teaching or academic sites?
I am not going to be publishing that. Seriously.
B
Have so missed your posts twinkletoes.
Hope you stay around …
twinkletoes says:
November 16, 2010 at 10:15 am
And I guess I would apply the same grain or two of salt to Kaine’s version of home life with TH. If she was such a raging drunk, passed out, negligent of the children, I think he would have been aware of it in retrospect. I don’t like Kaine one bit. I feel sorry for him but I revisit my initial impression of him. I think he loved her lifestyle choices until those choices became public. For some reason both TH and DY were afraid to directly challenge him. I think it is probably because he is a manipulative, vengeful, obsessive, smart, bastard who will not relent until he has gotten his way. That said, I am glad he is all those things because his anger and determination to destroy TH is ultimately what keeps this case in the media spotlight. But again, my point is, I don’t see either parents as an ultimately reliable fact source. They are filters (and tools for LE) and we need to remember that.
Could this be like the Zahra Baker step-mom, “helping from jail ?
Kimberly says:
November 16, 2010 at 10:55 am
@Idahogal,
Do you also find it a rather convenient coincidence that AS-S -is once again listed as “in transit” right after the Sauvie Island searched has wrap up? Arrived to MCIJ right before!
Ms. Blink wrote:
I keep going back to one thing. Kyron did not leave the school with Terri Horman that day. If he had, she would be in jail for something, make no mistake about that.
They published Dede flyers and truck flyers and Terri flyers and to date, they cannot and do not have a witness or shred of evidence that Kyron left with her. They are looking for a 3rd person because there IS a third person.
B
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Respectfully, I do not follow your logic. What I read you saying is,
“IF he had left the school with TH, THEN she would be in jail[now]”
“There is no shred of evidence that he left with Terri.”
“Therefore he did NOT leave with Terri.”
“Further, there is DEFINITELY a 3rd person involved.”
My counter-logic:
“There is no shred of evidence that he left with Terri.”
“There is no shred of evidence that he left with any one person.”
“Whoever he left with is not in jail [now].”
“This does not exclude the possibility that he left with Terri.”
The point is, his filings do not match his statements. In other words, he himself is stating
while he was in the home
, this blatant activity occurred. It does not say.. Her friends told me she was on skype and passed out and the baby was crawling around.. It is in the first person. I do not doubt she had a problem nor do I doubt they are finding out a lot she has hidden, but then the way the wording reads in his filing is misleading and blatantly dishonest.
If that information was gleaned from an external source, an afidavit from that individual must accompany the filing.
B says;
November 16, 2010 at 11:03 am
______________
I so totally agree.
He appears to not want to take ‘ownership’ of ‘anything bad’ that was going on prior but wants ‘ownership’ after to validate his ‘claims in civil court”.
As Blink always says, You can’t have it both ways. There is 3 sides of every situation, his, hers & the truth.
JMHO
Wow! I keep reading that Kaine was a bad person for not allowing Desiree to have custody of their child. He is Kyron’s father. How great that a Dad decided he wanted his son with him, to live with him, to support him. Oh that there be more men like this in our world. Sure things went wrong and now everyone suffers. But why do so many people just assume that the child automatically belongs with the mother. I have met some really terrible mothers in my lifetime. I have also met some amazing fathers. Geez! I find it hard to believe if LE thought Kaine did anything bad to Kyron they would just step back and let him have free rein with Kiara. They must believe he is a good father who is suffering just as much or more than Desire. JMO
This is where I am going to start deleting posts.
Have an opinion based on a comment posted here that you can quote? If not, respectfully, scroll and roll.
I read this and I have no idea how you even got there. All your interpretation, when fine posters take the time to address specific quotable subject material, instead of essentially making something up, annoys me.
B
Spot on Ms Bauer.
Desiree is a truly amazing, strong woman & mother who loves her son Kyron so completely.
And when I go ‘there’ about all she is going thru & being w/o Kyron, I pull up a photo of the two of them. Smiling, happy & so crazy with love for each other … and say to myself, Yes he knew/felt all the love she had for him, as she felt/knew he had for her. And I wish, so wish they could have more of those times, those days, those years …
JMHO
says:
__________________
Jackie Bauer
November 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm
I know that Desiree is beyond grief and fear and anger, I don’t know how she’s even managing to hold it together this far, and I only wish there were something I could do to help. There isn’t. But at the very least, I can at least validate her feelings and give her credit that, even in her emotional state, Desiree is able to recognize the difference between displeasure and “a severe hatred for Kyron”.
I know how it feels to have my feelings minimized or dismissed, and I don’t want to do that to someone else, particularly someone else in Desiree’s situation. How insulting for Desiree to be going thru all of this and then have some imply that the “severe hatred” is all in her head, or that she’s just not in clear enough mind to recognize the tone and know “severe hatred” when it’s written. It makes me angry for Desiree just to read these statements.
Desiree, if you read here, I hope you know that many of us respect you and are amazed by your strength, wish we could help, and we support you fully and we believe that even in this horrible time, you know what you read and would not exaggerate it or misinterpret it. I believe you that TH wrote about a “severe hatred for Kyron” and I believe that even in this awful, awful time, you’ve behaved with dignity and grace, and strength I could only hope to muster. My prayers are with all of Kyron’s family who loved him, but especially you today.
1.Rebecca says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Madilu, I am only going to say this once and then I will disregard every comment you or anyone generates in defense, but please keep your outrageous conspiracy theories away from here and back at THM where they belong! BOC is a good place to come for rational thought. Please don’t attempt to corrupt that.
~ Respectfully, Seems like quite a few of us here are looking at some variation of Madilu’s scenerio. TH had the opportunity, and according to the reports we hear of the emails, she had the motive. What did she actually purchase at the pharmacy, could it be used as a sedative? MOO, she may have fantisized about the event to the point of obsession, finally working up the nerve to carry it out. Or she may have just snapped. Either way, IMO she’s 100% responsible.
~ I just keep thinking, if there was any other person to point the finger at, anyone else to blame, she would have done it by now!
Madilu,
This is a funny commercial that I THINK may have only aired in Oregon. I say it is funny, but NOT as it relates to anyone calling someone fat or complaining about their own self, etc.
I think it was a commercial for a mattress company and the consequences of NOT getting a good-night’s sleep. The scene is in a bedroom, I believe. A wife say’s to husband something like, “Honey, do these jeans make my butt look big? And he responds in a very tired way appearing to have had a poor night’s rest, “It’s NOT the jeans.” LOL Anyway, I thought that was one of the funniest commercials I have ever seen. Moving right along.
Terri may have referenced the child support in terms of when she was still receiving it. Terri may also have not received very much in unemployment DEPENDING on the duration of her employment over a certain period of time. While she may have been a full time employee for a while, it has nothing to do necessarily with what she may actually receive in benefits.
Additionally, it is possible to look for work with a toddler in the house and yes, one is even allowed to surf the net from time to time if they so choose. The guidelines are that she make contacts. We have no idea what she has done in those terms. Further, she would find suitable day-care to interview and once employed. No big deal. Happens every day.
So, in essence, without KNOWING exactly what Terri received in terms of unemployment insurance benefits, she may well have given up every penny she had to Kaine every month, on top of taking care of a house and children. That was more my take versus Terri not contributing.
And regardless of where $30,000 came from, she states she utilized those funds to care for Kyron. She also stated that she was concerned about his vision and apparently had to side-step Kaine to get him care. We do not know the truth for certain, like much everything else at this point. But it is worth consideration like everything else.
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My opinion is that she is venting, and I can imagine, just by my own personal experience, that she wines about her situation herself daily (pun intended), and he responds by saying -then go do something about it! Get back into the body building then…” I used to be a competitive athlete, and it sucks to get older and gain weight…so when I whine about it, I hear that from others…
In fact, KH said back in August: “She was always being critical of herself and I got tired of listening to it,” he said. “She would complain about it and I would tell her, ‘You know that I don’t care what you look like. It’s who you are that’s important. Your weight doesn’t have any bearing on how I feel about you.’”
What I am more perplexed about in her emails is her, 1) still receiving child support even though her son had been out of the home for months. Say whaaaa? 2) Her thinking that she does not in any way need to contribute financially. What is her money, a, “fun fund?”
I believe in accountability. And if she was in a position to contribute to (her gym, her Internet, her car insurance, etc, at the very least) then I believe that she should as a member of the family.
And what TICKS ME OFF? Do ya really think that she was actively looking for work all the while accepting unemployment insurance, especially with all the federal extensions…she could have been on it for 2 years or more. It is a requirement in OR that you actively seek employment, have to legally attest to that fact weekly, and in some cases they follow up on documentation of job search activity. In addition, you are required to state that you are available each day for work -in order to continue receiving. Seems pretty obvious that she lied on her weekly benefits request.
How could you possibly be, “willing and able” to report to a job daily” when you have FT baby care duties? Bull-o-knee. It’s called FRAUD. And if the state wanted to, they could ask for all that money back. The other reason I believe that she was not actively pursuing any job is that KH said he did not know quite what she did during the day and that she was always on social networking and bodybuilding sites…****notice he didn’t mention careerbuilder, monster, oregonlivejobs, PPS job site, or any other teaching or academic sites?
Hejlena says:
Nancy says:
November 14, 2010 at 7:22 pm
I think the point is that the filing said, “‘contract killer ***who attempted to kill the respondent.***” Does LE know that there was an actual attempt to kill Kaine? If so, that is a new and scary piece of info. Wowsers.
****
@beejay says:
November 14, 2010 at 8:24 pm
“Blink has never wavered from her position that Ky was himself a victim of a sex crime.”
Actually, I think it is you that has never waivered, beejay.
I remember, way back when, you asked Blink to deny your statement that Kyron was the victim of a sex crime. She said absolutely nothing, if I remember correctly beyond the fact that this crime was “sexually motivated.” Sorry–I just don’t think it is fair that you continually attribute that statement to Blink when she has never made it, unless I missed something.
****
rollermonkey says:
November 15, 2010 at 11:18 am
“Anybody know what happens if you try to back out of a contract killing? They kill somebody else important to you. To make sure you don’t talk.”
Rollermonkey, how is it you know that things operate this way? It doesn’t really make sense to me. Wouldn’t it make more sense to kill the person that backed out of the contract…then they’ve really made sure you won’t talk?
***
twinkletoes says:
November 16, 2010 at 4:22 pm
“I don’t recall if I ever said this out loud or if anyone else has, but it has crossed my mind more than once that TH took out a hit on Kaine with a not so bright hitperson who thought Kyron was the hit. Kaine, Kyron–they sound a lot alike to a dumbass. Just a thought.”
Twinkle, that thought entered my brain earlier today. Hadn’t considered it before, but it seems like a possibility. I also wondered if maybe she wanted to take out the MFH on both of them. Dunno. But we need to think about how the MFH and Kyron disappearing might be connected, as Blink has strongly suggested.
I have no ‘proof’ but what I do know is KH’s extended family are living around the Seattle, Washington area.(North of Portland approx 3 hr drive)
JMHO but would you be “spreading the news” that you started an affair (w/ “a stranger you picked up in a restauran or bar)” no less, when your WIFE, that you live with, is over 5mos pregnant ? To me that is not the type of greet & meet to endear the “new woman” to the family.
Also, Amanda was married to KH’s brother, which would not be a person the scorned, pregnant wife would be seeking out to tell about the “other woman”.
KH has said they had “separate’ lives when he met TMH, even though DY has said that was not what she believed about their marriage/relationship.
IMOO DY did not live w/ KH the whole time she was pregnant. It appears KH retains home ownership when he divorces. So it makes sense to me that she would have moved out BEFORE Kyron was born so she could have everything ready for her baby.She filed for divorce in her 8th month. The divorce was finalized Jan/Feb 2003.
KY continued to live in the same house he had lived w/DY & which TMH & JM moved into in 12/2002. He sold that home & moved to his present home which he purchased in Jan 2007. He married TMH in April 2007.
IMO KH &/ or TMH were responsible for how Amanda & others in their “circle” of families/friends “heard how” they “met”. And yes, for 8 years, either/ or both maintained “that lie”.
There would be no reason for DY to have 8 yrs of “contact” w/ KH &/or TMH families/friends nor be/ or want to have to “update” them about her marriage/betrayal/divorce from KH. IMOO DY had enough salt in her wounds, she did not need to seek out more.
I cannot find the date/year DY & KH married but it was IIRC maybe a year into the marriage when he “hooked-up w/TMH”. KH & TMH lived together 5 yrs & have been married for 3 years. They (KH &TMH) had a much longer time of exposure as a couple to families/friends than DY & KH did as a couple.
Also, once KH &/ or TMH “told that lie”, it wasn’t like families/friends would keep asking, “How did you met, who is she etc. etc., over & over again”.
IMOO “that lie” was a KH &/ or TMH “lie” to “save face”.
JMHO
________________________________
Midwest Mom says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:01 pm
beejay says:
November 16, 2010 at 8:55 am
Emails to Amanda Howard, but it’s not gonna take us anywhere.
_________________________
DY and KH said the comment by Amanda Howard was said to be a lie told by TH.
“Someone had to watch the baby,” said Amanda Howards, the former wife of Kaine’s brother Kristian. “Terri was her friend. She moved in just to help with the baby.”
—Amanda, Kaine and Desiree were family they already had a relationship. When terri came in the picture, “someone” had to introduce her Amanda as….DY friend, the baby sitter, KH roommate. Seriously! Someone introduces Terri, then says we will let terri explain the circumstances of the relationship and in 8 yrs time Amanda never heard anything different??
Typo “**KY** continued to live in the same house…”
Should of been “KH”.
Sorry
Have to chime in on the logic. Neither Blink’s nor Malidu’s logical arguments are valid.
Here is an example of an INVALID form of a conditional syllogism. This fallacy is called “denying the antecedent.”
If Kyron was seen leaving with Terri, then she caused his disappearance.
Kyron was not seen leaving with Terri, then she did not cause his disappearance.
*******************************************************************
Here is an example of a VALID form of a conditional syllogism:
If Kyron was seen leaving with Terri, then she would be in jail.
Terri is not in jail, therefore Kyron was not seen leaving with Terri.
*********************************************************************
Note I did not posit whether Kyron left with Terri or not, because I do not know for sure one way or the other and anytime you utilize a possibly false statement in a logical argument, it cannot be valid. The form can be valid, but the argument not if it is not true.
To obtain knowledge through deductive logical reasoning, the statements must be 1) true and 2) the argument must be valid (logical form).
If, then statements (arguments) are called hypotheticals or syllogisms. Adhering to valid forms for deductive reasoning can be extremely fruitful for gaining knowledge about anything. But, remember, all statements used MUST BE TRUE to attain knowledge about any subject, otherwise, you are just padding your opinion.
Can someone please tell me what she just called me?
Lol, teasing. Point Taken.
B
Ms Bauer, your post @ Jackie Bauer says: Nov 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm, just, well you know & now I read …
Jackie Bauer
says: November 16, 2010 at 2:13 pm
@Kim in PA & Madilu:
“Same thoughts here along those lines. It came to me when trying to define what Kiara could have seen that was “unimaginable horror” and I had an image of Kyron stun gunned (cool electric thing he went trustingly to see) and packed into the box still alive and tossed, weighted into a non-metal (Blink said this above) container. The container might have been weighted with something on the outside, or inside, but it might be part of what LE is searching for in addition to the container since Blink couldn’t make reference to the other stuff. Very neat, no blood, etc. I hate the thought, but your description makes sense to me, too.”
and I simply have no more words …
I have read other places (no, do not have sites name or link) that RS/LS had “connections” to the nursery that was used for the “fund raiser” in Oct. I have no factual evidence that is true but YOUR comment/post made me go hmmm.
JMHO
_______________________________
Mother Hen says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:15 pm
What brought on the search at SI? I really want to know.
Based on what we have learned about phones in the “Sexting” drama, what can we learn about cell phones pinging? And WHICH person’s phone TRULY pinged? We have a need to be curious.
I think I recall Lea stating that it is possible that Kaine KNEW Rudy. If this is true, could Kaine have been getting a little help from his other friend…..maybe like he may have been getting a little help from MC? Sure makes me wonder.
Out of the blue, MFH sting comes up. THEN, the sexting between TH and MC (and maybe Kaine) is VERY SIMILAR to the sexting that went on between TH and RS. Hmmmm.
PS to post @ 12:15am–Mother Hen : “connections” such as purchasing nursery stock, knows & or known to owners.
But I have no clue how that could be verified/vetted.
So I’ll just continue w/ hmm to your post/comment.
JMHO
Cassie- Hi.
Although I agree that both Terri and Kaine have been around the block, regardless if the block included bars and/or swinging clubs ect. Or just the fact that they both came from failed marriages…I do not agree that this would necessarily mean that Kaine knew. Without therapy he may not have understood just how bad it was, nor his role in an alcoholic spouse’s downfall-
I am in no way trying to make excuses for either parent’s choices. Whether it be Terri’s supposed late night binge drinking sessions or Kaine’s overlooking these ‘lapses’ until they could be brought up in a divorce proceeding or all the rest. Clearly they made horrible choices that will haunt them all until their dying day. No parent is perfect- and if our lives and marriages and mistakes in child rearing were put under a microscope, would we come out unscathed? I think not-
I truly believe these parents made some very poor choices. And they clearly were not happy, as once believed. What I was trying to point out- is that alcoholism effects everyone. It sounds like there was alot of co-dependancy going on. JMO
Right now we don’t know what is true and what is not true. But if there was alcoholism involved, then IMO, based on everything I have researched about the disease- DH may have been your classic enabler- waiting for the day that Terri would realize she needed help- and until that day came, he would cover and hope, deny and enable inorder to keep his family together..
Now for me, NONE of this he said- she said garbage is new to ugly-divorce proceedings- each side tends to bring up and may exaggerate incidences of neglect, abuse, cheating, ect ect.
What makes this divorce proceeding unique and truly sad, is that we have a missing /presumed dead child, Kyron. Who was last seen in the care of his step mother. Whom has reportedly sought to kill his father, in a murder for hire plot, who also, would seem to carry great resentment/hatred toward her stepson, Kyron. And we have a custody issue involving another child. Is this child safe in the care of a woman who failed polygraphs and refuses to speak because it may incriminate her- It looks bad. Whether or not the accusations are true.
Even if some of these dirty little secrets turn out to be true- they both liked to drink- they both liked to swing or other, they both liked to control, none of it points to either one taking, killing or hiding Kyron. Nor does Terri’s reported resentment/hatred of Kyron, Even if she wrote some horrible things about wishing Kyron dead- or despising him to death- It does not mean she did anything criminal to him.
Without all the evidence all we really have is speculations regarding Kaine and Terri’s hate filled marriage and supposed shitty parenting choices.
Again-We don’t know if any of it is true, we don’t know if anything we think we know, has any bearing on what happened to Kyron – not the drinking- not even the murder for hire plot- not the emails- not the lifestyle choices- ect- We just don’t know.- All we can do is suppose.
Each of the party’s involved are human- each of the parent’s are not perfect and bring in their own set of rose colored glasses that fit their own perceptions and experiences and biases.
My grandma used to say “-There are 3 sides to every story- yours, mine and the truth-”
In this case we have one parent talking, and one that refuses to talk and two others that are forced to watch and wait-until the truth presents itself.
JMO
Sending up some special prayers for all the divers, sonar equipment operators, other searchers, and LE as they toil so tirelessly in their search for the truth. Lord, please help them bring this little boy home.
But you know Mother Hen, the nursery connection could have easily been thru TMH & RS/LS.
KH may know these nursery owners w/ an introduction from TMH & not know RS has possible dealings w/ them.
So hmmm & nothing is any clearer…
JMHO
What do you suppose Desiree means by “things that you don’t talk about with children”
“Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,” she told KATU News Monday evening by phone. “I don’t understand how you can feel that way about a 7 year old.”
Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron.
from the KATU article
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html
9.Madilu says:
November 16, 2010 at 10:33 pm
Madilu, I agree with your analysis. TMH is not in jail because no one SAW her leave with Kyron. Which, IMO, is b/c she left the building after telling Kyron to meet her at the truck at a certain time (e.g., when the bell rang); and may have left the parking lot only to park on the service drive to wait for Kyron. But, someone else was supposedly seen in the Horman truck. Or, there could have been a second white truck that resembled the Horman truck. Someone else could have led Kyron from the school bldg to the Horman truck or to a second truck. Either way, I believe TMH was involved in planning Kyron’s kidnapping. Someone (I think it was Idahogal) asked why TMH did not plan an alibi if she was the perpetrator. Others have already noted TMH’s alibis that A.M. (2 FM’s, gym). I think TMH didn’t consider it necessary to have an alibi after a certain point in the day b/c she knew when the crime was committed and when it was completed, so she thought she was in the clear as long as she accounted for the early part of the day.
Just MOO….what I’ve deduced from what I’ve read. I suspect Blink has a little more information that she is going on, though.
Familythx, re: your comment November 16, 2010 at 8:18 pm
I share your feelings re: the evisceration, and I, too, know somewhat how KH feels, having walked a little bit in his shoes. I know completely what it is like to be completely fooled, lied to, cheated on, stolen from, and to find out only later, when all the pieces of all the lies and all the stories start coming together from information never seen, from emails to others, etc…. and almost the hardest part of it is having people blame you, or not understand, or think you’re exaggerating, or think you must have done something to deserve it when, in fact, trust and belief in a person who didn’t really exist, who only existed on the surface is your only crime. I rarely even share the full details of my story simply because most people can’t begin to believe, much less understand. So I feel for KH, I really do. Did he miss stuff? Yeah. Is he seeing things now that he never saw before? Oh, yeah. But do I think he deserves to be kicked when down? Hells bells, no. And do I think he could’ve had anything at all to do with Kyron’s disappearance? Not a chance, the thought is absurd. I think KLEAT speaks to this very well, and I appreciate Kleat’s posts both here & at Hinkymeter.
So my point in all of this: I understand how hard it is to read some of that stuff. I feel it in my gut. Sometimes I don’t post for a few weeks because there’s just nothing I can say… but I have enjoyed reading your posts and thoughts, and I hope that you won’t stay away from here forever. Clear minds and empathetic insight is much valued to many of us. Jmoo.
I’m gonna post this again because I think it may be an example of Kaine stretching the truth.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html
“Someone had to watch the baby,” said Amanda Howards, the former wife of Kaine’s brother Kristian. “Terri was her friend. She moved in just to help with the baby.”
In the following interview Kaine is ask to name a specific lie that TH has told recently . It starts at 00.12.40 on audio.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/terri_hormans_emails_to_kyron.html
scroll down to “Listen to the full interview (25 min.):”
click arrow.
move bar to 00.12.40
I have never read anywhere that TH said that she was a friend of Desirees ,or that she moved in to take care of Kyron. I always thought that KH and TH told his family this to cover up for the dishonest way that they started seeing each other. How does his ex-sister in law believe this for years without Kaine being aware of it?
Has anyone else ever read or heard anywhere that TH said she was Desiree’s friend, and she moved in to help with the baby?
at 00.18.50 Kaine says he does not want to talk about how he met TH. Interesting since in a July 26 Dateline interview Desiree tells all about Kaine dating TH while she was 8 months pregnant.
snip
Desiree Young also elaborated on her split with Kaine Horman in 2002, saying that her then-husband struck up a relationship with Terri Moulton Horman while she was eight months pregnant.
“It was pretty hard to handle,” Young said. “I cried solid for two months and didn’t leave the bedroom, because I didn’t understand why she somehow equated to something better than me and my son.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/dateline_nbc_highlights_puts_s.html
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20442218,00.html
The mother of Kyron Horman, the 8-year-old Oregon boy missing since June, has once again pointed a finger at his stepmom, whom she believes “could have hurt him in the worst possible way,” Desiree Young said on Monday’s Today show.
**************************
I’ve been trying to figure out what Desiree means when she says “could have hurt him in the worst possible way,”?
Does she mean killed him, but cannot bring herself to say that? Or does she mean hurt him as in TH betrayed him and let someone else knowingly hurt him? For example: as in sold to a pedophile to sexually abuse and torture-knowing that was going to happen?
I’m just confused by those specific words she used. Anyone have other ideas of what she meant?
I’ve been up since about 5:00 AM E.S.T. tryin’ to figure out why DY wouldn’t go to a lawyer in her town and get some kind of custody modification order after talking with KH about Kyron spending more time with her and her husband. What in the world could he be holding over her head all these years later that she’s either hesitant or afraid, to go before a judge and ask for more time with her son?
Then it dawned on me that thinkin’ along these lines does nothing to help me try to figure out what happened to Kyron. Throwin’ dirty laundry out for all to see is so disgusting to me. I know some are going to say that I’m over reacting; I would remind those people that I am just stating how this affects me. I tend to start wanting to know more about their personal lives and tend to put Kyron on the back burner. It’s sort of like not being able to look at a bad accident when you pass it on the road.
I also have to realize, and hope, that LE has information that we are not privy to, that they know who they are going after. I have to go by what we know here. From that information I still can NOT say TH planned or participated in the death of her step-son Kyron. I do believe that her and/or KH’s lifestyle played a part in his disappearance.
I go back to the case in Louisville with Mel Ignato. Everyone in Louisville “knew” this man was guilty of killing his girlfriend, Brenda Sue Schaefer. His attorney asked and received a change of venue for the trial because of this. The DA took the case to trial with only circumstantial evidence and Mel Ignato was found NOT GUILTY. After the trail photographic evidence of his crime was found when the family that bought his house found undeveloped pictures hidden in the floor when they tore up old carpet. Those pictures, when developed, showed Brenda Sue being tortured and corroborated testimony given by the State’s witness that the jury ignored.
I mention the above only to reinforce what everyone here has been saying. The DA needs evidence and needs to take the time to find what they need to get whoever is responsible for this crime behind bars. If this is taken to trial without evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, then that person or persons could walk. If a person found not guilty they cannot be tried again for the same offense.
There is a difference between not guilty and innocent. Most famous case I can think of is OJ.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
Lazydog1 says:
November 16, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Wow! I keep reading that Kaine was a bad person for not allowing Desiree to have custody of their child. He is Kyron’s father. How great that a Dad decided he wanted his son with him, to live with him, to support him. Oh that there be more men like this in our world. Sure things went wrong and now everyone suffers. But why do so many people just assume that the child automatically belongs with the mother. I have met some really terrible mothers in my lifetime. I have also met some amazing fathers. Geez! I find it hard to believe if LE thought Kaine did anything bad to Kyron they would just step back and let him have free rein with Kiara. They must believe he is a good father who is suffering just as much or more than Desire. JMO
This is where I am going to start deleting posts.
Have an opinion based on a comment posted here that you can quote? If not, respectfully, scroll and roll.
I read this and I have no idea how you even got there. All your interpretation, when fine posters take the time to address specific quotable subject material, instead of essentially making something up, annoys me.
B
++++++++++++
I’m sorry Blink but what Lazydog just wrote was absolutely spot on and his/her opinion too. Why chastise her opinion any more than another? Oh that’s right, this is the new Kaine bashing site. Got it!
Because her opinion is not based on what is being written, there is not one post on here that even approaches the zipcode of Kaine bashing and you know it. It is exactly what I said earlier, it seems people in some cases, are more concerned about “being right” than they are overall justice for Kyron. It is not out of line to ask that a post on this site be response based, this is not a forum. It can be dissenting, there are thousands of those, I encourage it, as long as it is rooted in fact or in response.
Be for real, Kaine bashing? Seriously. Then your not reading.
B
Thinking back on all sorts of details — or rather, lack of details — since June 4…
Desiree mentioned that emails from TH on the day of Kyron’s disappearance were markedly different in style compared to those TH would usually write.
Why? A person with a talent for setting up a crime — killing a child or setting up a kidnapping to stash the child — would want to be careful (doesn’t want to be caught, obviously) and would probably make a superhuman effort to act as he/she normally acts, during the crime and after it’s been committed. Why were her emails so unique on that day?
Admitting a gender bias here, women tend to be more verbal than men. TH has been portrayed as someone who talks a lot and used social sites a lot — she has a lot to say. She’s been portrayed by Kaine as spending a lot of time on the computer. So, on a day when something horrible happens to Kyron, suddenly she’s terse and brief?
Were her emails like that because there was a deadline that day concerning Kyron that Terri knew about — no time for her usual lengthy ramblings?
Were they like that because she just wanted to log a presence online at a specific time?
Did she write them? They were different enough in style to make Desiree notice it right away, it seems.
On a day that you’ve decided to get rid of your stepson — not steal candy from a store, but get rid of your stepson — would you be careless on details such as a change in behavior that makes you stand out? So TH is either just a raged-filled woman who commits this horrible crime on impulse with sloppy planning, and then tries to cover her butt, or, she’s a diabolical manipulator who had a solid plan and help carrying it out? If the latter is the case her emails would be something she’d know to pay attention to — to keep them “as usual.”
Again, it’s that September PC and all its words I keep hearing in my head over and over again — “things we don’t want to know about.” “look back and think.” Etc.
I know this has been asked by several readers, including me, but have we determined the relationship Blink once alluded to between Dede and RS? (Forgive me, Blink, for quoting off the top of my head – I believe you responded to that query months ago with something along the lines of “lol, I believe they are acquainted.”) My question is: How so?
Riverpearl, thank you for your kind words. I think I just needed a little break. I was starting to dream about this stuff every night. I will always come back around as long as these awful stories remain a part of the world we live in.
Participate in the National (Call-In) Day of Action on Nov. 17 is easy! Just call 202-224-3121 and ask the operator to transfer you to your representatives office and encourage them to pass the Domestic Minor Sex Trafficking and Victims Support Act (H.R. 5575). I just did and it was easy and very rewarding and only took 3 mins.
Lol, Blink, you crack me up. People, please stop annoying Blink. ;O)
@weeds: If you’re still working in computer forensics, my guys say there was new keystroke logger software (fully programmable!) that will do what we were discussing here awhile back. Complete keystrokes. Even retrievable by blackberry (distance limitations). They’ve already had some success with it. New program released mid-Sept, 2010.
Look at new eBlaster products, incl. SpectorPro.
That means tools available now (and note: to nosy parents, BTW) requiring no hardware device, which is visible where cord connects); works on laptops as well–fully wireless as to suspect’s computer input and retrieving computer. Immediate access or programmable for any time delay.
Good news for the good guys!
Emphasis on the circumstantial. I would offer you feel the way you do, because as you profess, TH is guilty, and THAT is one sided.
Show your case then, because as it stands, it was not enough to produce an indictment, so what do you know that we do not?
People, this is about Kyron, and justice for him, period.
B
Yes, I do feel that she is guilty however I have always tried to keep an open mind and I would love to be proven wrong on this one. I have followed this case since day one and I just feel like there are too many things that point to her. I certainly don’t know anything that you don’t. I am a social worker and not a lawyer, in fact I’m totally ignorant of the law. Based on her actions and behavior I would say it’s more likely than not that she is involved.
Right, well that is a different statement and one I happen to agree with. I am simply getting frustrated that in my personal opinion, there is more going on than just TH involvement and I have developed a level of concern that tunnel vision as far as she is concerned is a fantastic cloak for another..
B
I am curious if the alleged emails came from Terri’s laptop or from a shared computer in the home?
If LE fully swept all of the computers in the home, which one would expect, could they have found content that would “shock” us? Technology seems to be the main source of discovery that’s been released thus far. Possible cell phone pings (unclear as to whose phone), sext messages (possibly altered or intentionally solicited for Kaine), hate-filled emails (considered evidence but released to the family?)… It makes me wonder if the worst of similar discovery is yet to come; some disturbing computer content perhaps. Kaine has mentioned Terri’s time on the computer almost every time he gives an interview. I think it’s possible that he knows there’s damaging content that could be found on the computer. If so, is he making sure he has Terri sitting behind the computer all day because the shocking stuff belongs to her, or is it because he wants fingers to be pointing away from him? I feel badly for everyone that loved Kyron, including Terri if she is not directly responsible for Kyron’s fate. Right now, I’m undecided about the family members or a possible abduction by someone unrelated. It’s easy in this case to adhere to “innocent until proven guilty” because no substantiated proof of anything has been released in my mind. Kaine’s inconsistent (and extremely self-serving) public statements about Kyron’s home life make him an unrelialbe source, imo. Since he is virtually the only one offering up “evidence” of Terri’s guilt, and Terri’s not responding, it’s a wash for me. Desiree wasn’t in the home and evidently not privy to what was really going on with Kyron (which is rightfully p’ing her off), so she doesn’t have any first hand information to offer. We haven’t seen the hateful emails, so we don’t know if they incriminate Terri or not (I’m not discounting Desiree’s account, but we don’t know if the context was shared with her, if there were direct or indirect statements that were made…).
So,if LE is focusing on the family dynamics/home life as the key to Kyron’s disappearance, seems likely they have more circumstancial evidence in their pockets and they’re releasing it sequentially to elicit the desired responses from the possible suspect(s), imo. I believe computer search phrases and/or illegal content could be next.
Peace to Kyron and those who love him….
18.lizzygoat says:
November 16, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Blink,
Terri would want to punish Kyron for a whole evening and demanded his daily behavior report it reminded me of a few individuals I know. One was my third grade teacher…
…They start with demands to control…the need for control grows and escalates. They become blind to everything but that which is wrong…not being obeyed. The demands grow and grow and reason no longer exists for them. It didn’t matter that Kyron would be leaving she was not capable of getting him out of her head. My guess is that she spent most of Kyron’s final weeks or months setting him up over and over for punishments. The only thing that would have saved Kyron would have been exposing her behavior to the community. There is no logic or reason in the mind of this type of person. They are sick and only stop abusing out of self-preservation.
~Lizzy, this is what I see as well. Great post. One need only look at Terri’s DUI photo, her facial expressions at the first presser, her facial expressions at the courthouse for the divorce, to see she is a woman of many colors. The DUI photo is particularly telling.
She may be a sadist.
When you can see white around a persons iris it can be a sign of mental issues. I noticed that in her DUI photo, her competition photos, and when she was going down the slide with James in the Dateline clip. We’re going to find out she is mentally disturbed and quite capable of harming Ky or causing him to be harmed, I’m certain of it.
Who is protecting James? I certainly hope the state of Oregon has assigned someone to watch over him. He could be subjected to some serious mental abuse at a very sensitive time for him if he is residing with Terri. He’s growing into a man with a confused and broken heart and will need consistent positive support. Praying for James.
@lyla
I was not in anyway referring to their divorce in this comment, just pointing out that they totally know a different lifestyle that is a result of poor life choices and bringing disorder to their home & I know we all have made poor & good choices in our lives…”hopefully not to this degree” I was just pointing out that they are both “worldwise” (not naive) in a way that has been harmful to their children~Kaine knows fully well through alcohol smell ,behavior of Terri’s problems & when they started~ He has been less then truthful & she wont talk because she is probably full of lies too and the children suffer~imo
45.lyla says:
November 16, 2010 at 8:19 pm
11.Cassie says:
November 16, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Mom 3.0~ The only thing a lot of people are forgetting is that Kaine & Terri had a different type of lifestyle than is normally acceptable
the swinging life style “if all this is true ” the bars they frequented and associates they hung with ~ You are not looking at an innocently naive man here or woman ~! from all we have learned “if true” they both have been around and around the block a few times so I really think Kaine knew what Terri was all about ~imo
————————
@Cassie
I don’t think their lifestyle had anything to do with Ky’s abduction. I do believe Kaine knew what Terri was all about…it doesn’t equate to “murder”. I wish we could separate the divorce proceedings from the criminal investigation.
2.riverpearl says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Idahogal~
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner.I was not avoiding your question, just cannot find what I saw before … but did find this clip: notice the truck bed @ ~2:01.
*************************************************************
WOW! and holy crap!
However; my first response is Naaaa, NO WAY!
wouldn’t a coroner be present? the way the
“items”(s) are positioned looks quite un professional
and not what I would expect to see for remains recovery.
To me it looks just thrown in the back of a truck!
And I reallllllly hope it’s not what I’m seeing, especially
in the manner of the picture, As a parent seeing it that way
would be traumatic.
@lyla
And yes I do believe their lack of morals & order in their home with alcohol etc has directly played a big part in the disorder & possible abuse in the lives of their 3 children~ & now one who cant speak for himself is silenced: poor lil Kyron
(again I am not saying that I or anyone else hasnt had problems in their lives or are as white as the driven snow) Just hopefully we recognise these problems & get help before they escalate to this degree~or someone intervenes.
hejlena says:
November 16, 2010 at 7:23 pm
I have to say that I have a bit more faith in the veracity of the outcome now that we (in the biggest sense of the word) are asking questions regarding the other parent in Kyron’s house. I have felt uncomfortable all along with the careful distribution of information along with the fact that most of the information distributed (by KH) was intended to pin TH in a corner AND seemed to be distributed (by KH) in such a way that many of almost swallowed hook, line and sinker that the information did come from LE. Kyron is not snuggled in his bed right now where he should be/. That in itself is enough for me. Whether he is still with us or not, I believe wholeheartedly that KH had a hand in Kyron’s disappearance, and that it has everything to do with power and control and “don’t you for one minute think that I will allow MY child to leave this house to live with you”.
****************************
Marci says:
But it isn’t KH that failed multiple polys or has lied about where he was that day. Or it hasn’t come out that he was putting together a murder for hire on his spouse’s life….
******************************
Rebecca says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Madilu, I am only going to say this once and then I will disregard every comment you or anyone generates in defense, but please keep your outrageous conspiracy theories away from here and back at THM where they belong! BOC is a good place to come for rational thought. Please don’t attempt to corrupt that.
**********************************
Marci says:
So we aren’t allowed to have a theory if it doesn’t match everyone else’s? I thought Madilu’s theory about how it might have gone down very reasonable.. I think THM and BOC are both awesome places where concerned people go to not only share theories but to also support each other in horrible cases like this.
Thanks Blink for all you do and to Val at THM!! You both are so comitted and genuine.
Reviewing the picture of Kitty on the porch with the blue “recycling container”… which does not look the shape and size of a recycling container but more like a coffin for a small child. It’s too cumbersome for recycling bin and you certainly would not haul that shape bin to the grocery store for returns.
I don’t know how to post a picture here? Try this:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8373.340
In the photo, there is a garage door opener laid down, as if to get it out of hand to take the picture. But still handy so that one could put the container in the truck after the photo is taken. Wondering if this is the container TH used for Kyron. Criminals like to revisit things. The picture shows the container open with Kitty looking into it. It’s very unsettling. Empty bags nearby as if cans were either just dumped in, or would be transferred to the bags.
Possible removal from school – off to the truck for Dr. appointment. Once in truck she asks him to swallow a few pills in order for Dr. to assess him. He falls asleep, she places him in the container and off she goes. Maybe she called KH from Sauvie’s and said something threatening like, you will never see your son again, he’s here on Sauvie’s and is in danger… and he raced over there from work and that explains the two vehicles racing on Sauvie’s. Maybe she called DeDe because she was at that point afraid of KH and what he might do to her in anger. Lying to DeDe, that she fears something happened to Kyron but does not know what it is. The trips to FM stores are just alibis.
Cannot get past Desiree saying that Kryon saw it all. She has been informed of something by LE to say that with assuredness. Someone else by the truck on Jun 4th, could that be the person to whom the emails were written about how much she hate Kryon? Could there be a mole in the midst? We can only hope.
Here is a picture of the school side door with similar blue container:
http://photos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_attracts_1_1.html
I’m sorry Blink but what Lazydog just wrote was absolutely spot on and his/her opinion too. Why chastise her opinion any more than another? Oh that’s right, this is the new Kaine bashing site. Got it!
Because her opinion is not based on what is being written, there is not one post on here that even approaches the zipcode of Kaine bashing and you know it. It is exactly what I said earlier, it seems people in some cases, are more concerned about “being right” than they are overall justice for Kyron. It is not out of line to ask that a post on this site be response based, this is not a forum. It can be dissenting, there are thousands of those, I encourage it, as long as it is rooted in fact or in response.
Be for real, Kaine bashing? Seriously. Then your not reading.
B
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I am reading and that is the impression I am getting from more and more posts. Maybe not in the exact zip code of true bashing but certainly in the next subdivision over.
EXACTLY. Your impression, which is clearly not based on the majority of the posts in the coverage, there is absolutely no Kaine bashing, no victimizing a victim, and I am not going to allow for such misrepresentations of either my work, or the contributions here. Debate can be had about imperfect people as it relates to foundational case issues without inflammatory subjective conclusion.
I expect readers/posters to respond to posts, back them up,and if something someone wants to write is not coming from a CONSTRUCTIVE perspective, it does not belong here and I am through wasting time on it.
B
kjo says:
November 17, 2010 at 10:42 am
So,if LE is focusing on the family dynamics/home life as the key to Kyron’s disappearance, seems likely they have more circumstancial evidence in their pockets and they’re releasing it sequentially to elicit the desired responses from the possible suspect(s), imo. I believe computer search phrases and/or illegal content could be next.
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@kjo … really great reasoning. Makes me go uh-huh, so that’s what’s going on.
There has to be an investigtive strategy behind the releasing of the emails. So very painful for Desiree to learn of this information via the media. So why would LE purposely do it this way, knowing it would cause Desiree to distance herself from Kaine?
And Kaine’s PC on Monday .. that was no pre-planned “let’s keep looking” appeal to the public; he was attempting to minimize the impact of Desiree’s accusations against him.
@ evie says:
November 15, 2010 at 4:15 pm
______________________
Chuckling. I’ve been trained to get info out of people in the nicest way. (I don’t use it here; you guys are my colleagues; you get the rough treatment. Sorry.) FBI is using female agents, ex, more now esp on assignments like their CARD teams, because its more a female skill and easier to us hone.
Short training course: be friendly; research the setting/people, then make yourself look/act/talk as much like them as you can (to establish acceptance and a commonality, shared interests). Don’t jump right into your area of interest. Use a ruse, but never pretend to be someone you’re not; work totally within the law. Give them something to react to. Notice their nonverbal reactions–not just words; do the two match?
Anyway, I think in this case the flower market has been taken care of. Although it will probably be revisited.
pdxgirl says:
November 16, 2010 at 11:54 pm
Rollermonkey, how is it you know that things operate this way? It doesn’t really make sense to me. Wouldn’t it make more sense to kill the person that backed out of the contract…then they’ve really made sure you won’t talk?
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PDXgirl: I do understand your point… My suggestion is that hired killers do it for MONEY, plain and simple. If this is the case, Terri has probably never met the “person,” but somebody involved in the situation would be familiar. And yes… unfortunately, I am somewhat familiar with how these transactions work (not on a personal level, only from past work assignment).
That said, my “personal” opinion on what happended? I wouldn’t be surprised if Terri had a lot more to do with this than most people think. And I definitely think a FEW people were involved with what happened to Kyron that day.
So sorry for Kyron and his entire family. Our speculations (including my own) unfortunately don’t help the poor little man.
Cbickel says:
November 17, 2010 at 6:39 am
@Cbickel …
Oh yes, the Mel Ignato case.
An excellent reminder of why LE/DA’s office are keeping tight lipped about this case.
What a travesty that case was for Brenda Sue Schaefer and her family.
Mel Ignata found not guilty b/c the circumstantial evidence was just not enough for the jury to convict.
Years later, the graphic photo’s of the brutal torture that Brenda suffered at the hands of Ignato are discovered hidden under the floorboards of his old house that was being remodeled by the new owner.
But b/c of double jeopardy – Ignato could not be charged with the murder again.
(as I recall he only ended up serving 6-7 years for perjury or something)
I trust that LE are on the right track with Kyron’s disappearance and that they’re making significant progress that will lead to an arrest (soon I hope).
Although I log on here everyday hoping to hear something/anything about that will help me understand what has happened to Kyron … I trust that LE knows so much more than we are privy to – and that is as it should be.
They are taking all the time they need now to cross every t and dot every i … so that when an arrest(s) is made, they will have all the evidence they need to take this case to court and get a conviction. JUSTICE must be achieved for Kyron and his family.