Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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Doing some organizing of my case notes here, so trying to clean up a few pending item. One about “my candidate” arrested Nov 2:
@evie: you found a Hawaii/Russian name tie in?? OK, I looked at a Russian “connection” (hi, twinkletoes!) too. A stretch? Pulling something B never posted; probably for good reason. But here’s the relevant part, only a part of what I posted. On his linkedIn he said he worked there less than a year, in 2005:
BTW, I MIGHT have a Russian tie-in, but odds are against it. My personal A-team is back in town and looked at that, said, yeah okay. So I’ll put it first, but with the HUGE caveat that there was an IT company with that same name in the USA that Xerox bought out @2007. So, it’s much more likely that he worked for them. But with all the Russian child porn images on the market, I about went nuts when the Russian company came up! Here it is:
http://www.acs-it.ru/Pages/default.aspx
*********************************
BLINK: unless you have a reason not to, why don’t you free up some computer memory and just delete my entire post still showing on my screen as Awaiting Moderation? It has a link with the man’s name showing and we have no evidence of a case tie-in. It’s at:
beejay says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
November 13, 2010 at 9:35 am
@evie says:
November 12, 2010 at 7:47 pm
@beejay says:
November 12, 2010 at 3:20 pm
“Still working on my child porn production candidate.”
42.Kimberly says:
November 17, 2010 at 11:13 am
2.riverpearl says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Idahogal~
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner.I was not avoiding your question, just cannot find what I saw before … but did find this clip: notice the truck bed @ ~2:01.
*************************************************************
WOW! and holy crap!
However; my first response is Naaaa, NO WAY!
wouldn’t a coroner be present? the way the
“items”(s) are positioned looks quite un professional
and not what I would expect to see for remains recovery.
To me it looks just thrown in the back of a truck!
And I reallllllly hope it’s not what I’m seeing, especially
in the manner of the picture, As a parent seeing it that way
would be traumatic.
————————————–
Come on. What did you find….share puleeeeze!
wth did I miss?
B
When I heard the news of the jaw bone that washed ashore in Aruba last night, my first thought was GOD always brings them home. Sometimes it takes a little longer than others. Examples:
Caylee-6months
Zahra-1month
Sylar Newton-2 1/2wks
Morgan Harrington-3months
Laci Peterson-4months
Sandra Cantu-9 days
Somor Thompson-2days
If this is Natelee-5 years!
I also know there are those out there that still haven’t been found like Haleigh Cummings, and Kyron. However I have to believe GOD will bring them home one day too, we all have to believe that. He has them ALL home with him now, but he will send them home to their mothers ans fathers I believe.
I hope it doesnt take as long to find Kyron, but right then, when I heard about this jaw bone, I stopped, and said to HIM, you always find a way to bring them home. I personally have to trust in that. GOD is good, and he will guide LE and investigators in the right direction.
But when Jesus saw it, He was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God”
(Mark 10:13-14).
Work your magic GOD and bring Kyron home to his mom and dad.
Riverpearl,
I remember reading something similar as well. I will do a search later on.
Some random things that are a bit odd to me, especially throwing hind-sight in there:
1. MC was “Johnny on the Spot” right after Kyron went missing. Old HS friend of Kaine’s.
2. Kaine had a surprise B-day party for Terri in March (I believe). DeDe was in attendance. Who else was there? I think Lea mentioned some possible connection of Kaine knowing Rudy in relation to this surprise party. Very fuzzy on this. I need to find her post to be exact.
3. IF the talk about an “open” marriage, swinging, etc., etc., are true, then it is quite possible that Kaine knew of Rudy through their life-style.
BUT, as I stated here before, it seems possible that someone was trying very hard to get something to stick on Terri. If MFH failed, then there was SIMILAR sexting between MC and Terri WHERE the RO was on a cell phone with an address. Terri would have been clueless, I imagine, that the address was that of Rackner — giving the APPEARANCE of another MFH, etc. Who took the pic of the RO and on which person’s phone?
I am basing this scenario on possibilities we have been made aware of.
I am SERIOUSLY focused on these things.
===========================================
riverpearl says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:15 am
I have read other places (no, do not have sites name or link) that RS/LS had “connections” to the nursery that was used for the “fund raiser” in Oct. I have no factual evidence that is true but YOUR comment/post made me go hmmm.
JMHO
_______________________________
Mother Hen says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:15 pm
What brought on the search at SI? I really want to know.
Based on what we have learned about phones in the “Sexting” drama, what can we learn about cell phones pinging? And WHICH person’s phone TRULY pinged? We have a need to be curious.
I think I recall Lea stating that it is possible that Kaine KNEW Rudy. If this is true, could Kaine have been getting a little help from his other friend…..maybe like he may have been getting a little help from MC? Sure makes me wonder.
Out of the blue, MFH sting comes up. THEN, the sexting between TH and MC (and maybe Kaine) is VERY SIMILAR to the sexting that went on between TH and RS. Hmmmm.
riverpearl
Lizzygoat: I agree with your assessment of TMH.
Re: the thought that TMH would have watched enough CSI as to not ping all over Sauvie-I think she could have turned off her phone, thinking that was enough to prevent a ping, but it is not. ie shes not as smart as she thinks she is. Makes for an even stronger case of her denying she was on SI that day, thinking she wouldnt/couldnt get caught.
Evie: I agree with you, TMH just wanted to bitch about her situation for the poor me effect of it. Bear in mind again that the yardwork probably fell on her after she sent James away. Boo hoo.
I recall an interview where KH said that she was spending money like crazy and he had no idea where it was going. Heck, she hired a LS even and they arent all that cheap. I think its hogwash and her playing victim. It is part of the manipulation of alcoholism-its always someone elses fault. I do not believe that KH was as controlling as some might believe, but I do believe he asserted himself strongly much of the time. In some ways, he had to. She was punishing Ky for not having a perfect report each day at school and it was much more harsh a punishment than he deserved.
I do not think I have tunnel vision by questioning what TMH says and taking much of it with a grain of salt. She had to play victim-it garnered the attention she wanted so badly.
Mooo
Agreed, when I used the term tunnel vision, it was referring to anyone that regardless of whatever information comes to light, will not factor it if it conflicts with their already firm opinion.
B
puzzled says:
November 17, 2010 at 11:37 am
There has to be an investigtive strategy behind the releasing of the emails. So very painful for Desiree to learn of this information via the media. So why would LE purposely do it this way, knowing it would cause Desiree to distance herself from Kaine?
—– —– —– —– —– —– —– —– —–
@ puzzled …
As I read and heard in multiple news sources, Desiree AND Kaine were both in a “closed door” meeting with LE last Friday for unpdating on the case … and they both learned of the painful/hateful emails that way. (not hearing the info from the media)
Now, the TIMING.
Why are LE just NOW bringing these emails out to Desiree and Kaine … that is what has me wondering.
Surely I would think that LE knew about TMH’s hateful emails for months now, so why the delay in sharing that info with family until now?
Strategy … but what?
hmmm???
@anonanon: I think it was a rant, as you said. Again I say, its all about poor poor TMH and her persecuted life.
As far as her weight goes? Looking at her picture from her birthday party, she did not appear to me to be overweight at all as compared to the post June 4 presser.
This Andrea Howard person-I wonder if they checked her out good? If she was the one who told MSM that TMH was buddies with Desiree, it is most likely because she was blatantly lied to by TMH (would not surprise me) or she was bending the truth herself. There are all these allusions to TMH in Kys early life as well. According to both DY and KH, Ky lived with his mom the first year and a half or so. TMH wasnt taking care of him. She didnt move in to babysit. Just outright lies.
Moooo
“This is what I believe, have from day one, and is the reason I feel that the ruse with the LS cost them any knowledge she had.
I understand why they did it, I do not agree it was the only option and feel it was a major tactical error.”
B
Blink, this has perplexed me from day one. At first,I felt that there was another agenda at play. Was the failed sting an attempt to gauge reaction from person #3, not TH? It seems there must be more to the motivation behind this. Otherwise, it seems like an obtuse and ill-timed move. (and on an open channel?) With all the agencies involved, it seems as though strategies would be very well-rehearsed.
Prayers for Kyron.
The primary objective was to hook Terri Horman, or for her to hook herself I should say. I believe she brought it on herself because she denied at least the personal involvement with the LS to investigators, and that probably gave them what they needed as a corroborator to whatever they got from him. Someone can try till they are blue in the face to tell me that the LS is some innocent dude using a SS that does not belong to him and he was beguiled by the ginger hair, blah blah.
You have attorneys alleging the validity of a mfh plot, you have LS testifying before the GJ, after he voluntarily participates in a sting in which he incriminates himself ( yep, he had immunity, but he still did it) and she responds by calling 911 on the guy, who my sources tell me, was not the first time.
My guess, my opinion, is that they took him at his word without a poly, because if they tested him, they would have found deceipt, in which case, they could not wire him, and that opportunity goes poof. Make no mistake, there are questions in investigations that do not get asked upfront for investigative reasons.
Lastly, I am convinced the mfh and the disappearance of Kyron are connected or they would have arrested her for solicitation. If it is related, then any charges added to it, are running on the same clock.
B
@riverpearl
@Mother Hen
So I’ll just continue w/ hmm to your post/comment.
~~~
I’m hummm right along with both of you .. with a couple of uh-huhs for harmony.
@Puzzled
I’ve been thinking about LE’s strategy behind showing the e-mails to DY. I wonder whether they had the e-mails all along or did someone just come forward recently. The searches on SI lead me to think someone came forward recently. I also read that they were both e-mails and texts that DY was shown. As to the strategy I thought perhaps they were trying to elicit a response from TH. I thought about who she would feel most comfortable in discussing her hatred for Kyron and then it dawned on me it was whoever TH was trying to persuade to murder him. That thought process got me thinking that she was not trying to hire the guy but rather manipulate him into doing the deed. So LE wants TH to know that the guy has come forward. I don’t think the guy is RS either.
hmmm??? Me, too. As to LE’s strategy. They knew the email revelations would get media coverage. AND, they could figure out that it would be devisive, between the bio parents, and that would be reflected in the media releases. BUT, maybe LE doesn’t care about the media release. (One can get TOO paranoid, ya know.) IDK.
The reality is, though, that those were angry, furious tears from Desiree. The longer she stews on that (and watch to see if LE does more of this) the madder she’s gonna get at Kaine. That man better hold onto his a**. KH might have had something he could use against her (or not) in a custody battle over Ky. But now, it’s irrelevant and she might not care what comes out. Tony, LE, and nobody else will hold her back. IMHO.
***********************
@Rich and others: FWIW, remember that a cell phone can be completely cloned. Even so that it will ping identically to the original phone. But that technology isn’t available at your local phone-cloners. It takes expensive hardware, as well as appropriate software and technical expertise to clone a cell phone to that level. (That’s from my personal tech team. Me I don’t have a clue)
2.lyla says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:13 pm
42.Kimberly says:
November 17, 2010 at 11:13 am
2.riverpearl says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Idahogal~
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner.I was not avoiding your question, just cannot find what I saw before … but did find this clip: notice the truck bed @ ~2:01.
*************************************************************
WOW! and holy crap!
However; my first response is Naaaa, NO WAY!
wouldn’t a coroner be present? the way the
“items”(s) are positioned looks quite un professional
and not what I would expect to see for remains recovery.
To me it looks just thrown in the back of a truck!
And I reallllllly hope it’s not what I’m seeing, especially
in the manner of the picture, As a parent seeing it that way
would be traumatic.
————————————–
Come on. What did you find….share puleeeeze!
wth did I miss?
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink:
See post and link below. At the 2:01 mark on the video clip there is a shot of a search and rescue vehicle with what appears to be an empty body bag on a stretcher type device. I do not have any familarity with SAR equipment, so it is impossible for me to confirm the same. I don’t think it is any surprise that the recent searches are most likely being conducted for body recovery purposes. It is just very very sad to realize there isn’t going to be a happy ending. Hopefully, there soon will be closure for the parents, friends and loved ones, and justice for Kyron.
2.riverpearl says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Idahogal~
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner.I was not avoiding your question, just cannot find what I saw before … but did find this clip: notice the truck bed @ ~2:01.
Also w/ the MCSO spoke person Lindstrand comment of “found nothing of note that she can tell us about”, is a rather odd statement. She could have said “no comment” &/ or “nothing recovered” IF there was NOTHING found. Does that make sense ? [When I posted, I had things swirling in my head w/ Desiree interview/comments on the Today Show & not being on my computer I had no way to copy/paste etc., I just scribbled stream of "OMG' thoughts. I probably should have walk away w/ my thoughts/comments sooner ... and than hearing KH, again discount Desiree ... I am wound too tight just now]
When I saw your post I cringed a little because I was hoping others had seen the same/ or similar things. I had an after thought that maybe I should have posted “private” to Blink.
IF what I saw “re-surfaces” I will post.
JMHO
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Divers-seek-Kyron-clues-in-Sauvie-Island-waters/i0AuhogHAE-JJBsG6ia1zA.cspx
Blink – In your opinion do you think Kyron left school on June 4th with RS?
no
B
Blink: I am convinced the mfh and the disappearance of Kyron are connected or they would have arrested her for solicitation.
That’s the case if she actually solicited it. But what if she didn’t? What if RS created that story as a coverup for something else and/or to throw some blame her way just for the hell of it?
Is there any chance that the mfh and disappearance of Ky are connected, but only on Rudy’s end? (there was no mfh–it did come from his mouth; and he is connected to Ky)
And, what TH is guilty of is not solicitation at all. But she can be charged with something (if only by not telling all she knows about RS, etc). And she will be later. Houze can work out something to convict RS and/or his associate, whichever one may have disappeared Ky.
Anything here in my thoughts?
42.Kimberly says:
November 17, 2010 at 11:13 am
@Kimberly – It’s not a good idea to holler “CRAP!!!” right now, okay? You’re gonna’ give folks a stroke or seizure here. It is just a snip of a rescue basket in the bed of a truck with a black tarp because it was pouring rain. SOP and equipment for any SAR operation and I understand what you thought you saw. That was my laugh for today. ;<)
KOIN news video at this link shows it at app. 2:30, rescue basket that LOOKS LIKE AN ADULT BODY IN A BLACK BAG but is NOT.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Divers-seek-Kyron-clues-in-Sauvie-Island-waters/i0AuhogHAE-JJBsG6ia1zA.cspx
Good Gravy.
I promise everyone, if and when there is a recovery, the press will not get within a few hundred yards.
B
Amy’s sister says: “When you can see white around a persons iris it can be a sign of mental issues. I noticed that in her DUI photo, her competition photos, and when she was going down the slide with James in the Dateline clip. We’re going to find out she is mentally disturbed and quite capable of harming Ky or causing him to be harmed, I’m certain of it.”
And I bet we can find some pictures of Terri Horman where her pupils are red — surely indicating she is the devil…..
My favorite thing about this site is how VERY fact-based (or certainly attempting-to-establish-the-facts-based) it is. There are plenty of blogs where you can rant, fixate on an unchanging position, and just spew garbage. This isn’t one of them, though I’ve been seeing some of that lately.
It would be nice if we all COULD substantiate our facts. As ti the “white around the iris” indicator of Terri’s mental problems…from the research I just did: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_there_a_white_halo_around_the_iris_of_your_eyes
a white ring around your iris could indicate mineral deposits and another site on Iridology (used by some traditional medical practitioners and also by homeopathic and holistic healers) stated the same white ring can indicate cholesteral issues.
I think from the other facts that have been shared, we can surmise Terri had some issues — mental or otherwise.
My point is — can we stay level headed (albeit emotionally invested) and work with the valid information we do have to try to figure this thing out? And if we’re going to throw something random out there, at least try to back it up?
(MOO — all said in support of Blink’s recent comments)
Thanks b for commenting in an easy to understand explanation, appreciate your work! Prayers for Kyron and his family.
40.Amy’s Sister says:
November 17, 2010 at 10:56 am
~Lizzy, this is what I see as well. Great post. One need only look at Terri’s DUI photo, her facial expressions at the first presser, her facial expressions at the courthouse for the divorce, to see she is a woman of many colors. The DUI photo is particularly telling.
She may be a sadist.
When you can see white around a persons iris it can be a sign of mental issues. I noticed that in her DUI photo, her competition photos, and when she was going down the slide with James in the Dateline clip. We’re going to find out she is mentally disturbed and quite capable of harming Ky or causing him to be harmed, I’m certain of it.
Who is protecting James? I certainly hope the state of Oregon has assigned someone to watch over him. He could be subjected to some serious mental abuse at a very sensitive time for him if he is residing with Terri. He’s growing into a man with a confused and broken heart and will need consistent positive support. Praying for James.
—————————
Amy’s Sister,
Are you talking about Sanpaku eyes in your post? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanpaku
Yesterday Kyron was on the Red Plum mail advertisement in Texas! It was joyful but yet heartbreaking at the same time, I was crying and smiling at the same time.
Love and hope for Kyron!
I think that LE showed the emails to KH and DY that say TH hated kyron because like the sexting/texting evidence the prosecutor can’t use the evidence in a trial. It may be a “chain of evidence” problem as I thought was the case in the sexting transcripts This wouldn’t mean that the emails are not valid, only that they can not be used as proof of TH’s guilt in a trial. Probably LE decided that the emails would be more useful to the case being revealed to the media to put added pressure on whom ever they are trying root out by using the media as communication tool. JMO
Why would somebody target someother other than Terri?
If Terri were gone, she would not be able to pay any of her (possibly) outstanding debts. When people want money, they want money… that’s what I’m suggesting is “possible.” Terri was suppose to pay and she didn’t…
This may all sound like a movie, but unfortunately it does happen in the real world… between people that you wouldn’t expect to appear in a movie.
However, the most logical answer is usually the right answer…
Losing a child changes a person
I lost a child my sister lost a child and two close friends lost children
none of are the same people today
it just happens that way
Prayers for all these people. This is truly sad
Lastly, I am convinced the mfh and the disappearance of Kyron are connected or they would have arrested her for solicitation. If it is related, then any charges added to it, are running on the same clock.
B
————-
I’m trying to connect these two dots.
Kidnap Kyron and hold him for ransom, then have KH deliver the money and have him killed in the process. But to kidnap him from a school? Like the police aren’t going to be all over that. There has to be an easier and better way to kill a grown man. I could make a list.
RS contracted the job out and TH got cold feet. When she tried to cancel the contract, RS got mad and she called 911 on him. RS decided to kidnap kid instead and pass him off to the contractor as payment or punishment.
problems:
1) TH could have fessed up to that and cut a deal and maybe have saved Kyron.
2) TH knew RS was at the school when she left Kyron. IMO
3) We know that TH hated Kyron.
4) TH went to the gym.
5) TH’s first version of where she was that day didn’t hold up.
I don’t think the Desiree is overstating the virulence of TH’s comments about Kyron in the emails shown to her by LE. The way DY loses control when ask about the emails makes me think they must have revealed some really ominous things about TH’s feelings toward Kyron.
Blink I have a question.. why was Kaine trying to contact “Intel legal” and not Intel HR dept. What can the legal dept do? ..I thought Legal is more contracts and proprietary
” Do not speak to any media if contacted; I am trying to contact Intel legal to give them the heads up and help with this situation”
If LE thought employees talking would harm this investigation wouldnt they be the ones to ask Intel HR dept to release a memo to employees
But I admit if I seen an email with the word “legal” on it I wouldn’t talk …it’s a bit intimidating
Legal and HR work hand in hand, especially in a situation where an employee with Kaine’s access works partially from home, etc. He may also have certain protocol instructions to follow within his contract, I don’t know.
B
Sammy says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:27 pm
As I read and heard in multiple news sources, Desiree AND Kaine were both in a “closed door” meeting with LE last Friday for unpdating on the case … and they both learned of the painful/hateful emails that way. (not hearing the info from the media)
~~~
You are correct. I was confusing the sext/texts and the painful/hateful emails. I caught myself after hitting “submit”.
“…Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner.I was not avoiding your question, just cannot find what I saw before … but did find this clip: notice the truck bed @ ~2:01.”
Not sure where the original comment is, but I’m missing this, too. Please share.
******************************************************************************************************
@Riverpearl: riverpearl says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:10 am
Ms Bauer, your post @ Jackie Bauer says: Nov 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm, just, well you know & now I read …
and I simply have no more words …
Riverpearl, I’m sorry. I really am. I have just had the stun gun in my head for a couple of months now. Anyway, I’m sorry, I don’t know why you have no more words, but my guess is that you’re appalled and shocked by the image created. I am, too. It makes me sick to type it, and I’m honestly thinking about Kyron way too much. Cold and rainy here in the NW now, and maybe snow mixed with rain this weekend, and poor Kyron still missing… and poor DY and KH and TY still waiting…
Blink
I am trying to understand what you don’t want posted
any post of mine can be deleted I will respect your judgement
kitjcat117 says:
November 17, 2010 at 1:09 pm
So LE wants TH to know that the guy has come forward. I don’t think the guy is RS either.
~~~
ahhhhh .. I had not thought of this as the target audience. Possible 3rd suspect??
IMO, KH wasn’t so much a control freak, as someone trying to gain control over someone who was out of control. I do believe TH exaggerated her complaints against KH. KH attempted to control their finances b/c TH was spending wildly. Since TH was home during the day, it wasn’t out of line to expect her to do chores around the house, including cleaning out the gutters (I knew an 86yo woman who cleaned her own). But, TH hired LS. (Don’t know where she got the money, or if she paid him.) Seems it was probably a constant battle of wills between KH & TH. The Horman home would’ve been a war zone. It’s no wonder JT’s studies suffered, then improved when he moved out.
The more KH tried to gain control, likely the more TH exerted control over Kyron – he was the scapegoat caught in the middle, used to “punish” KH. Then, there was the MFH. People have assumed that TH angered the contract killer by backing out of the MFH, rather than RS refusing to carry out the plot. I have thought otherwise, but what if the CK did make a failed attempt on KH’s life, unbeknownst to KH, and TH simply said, “Oh, never mind. I just wanted to see if you would do it.” That would’ve given TH a sense of control over KH, thinking, “I could take you out if I wanted to.”
I still think all of the evidence points to TH being involved in arranging and orchestrating Kyron’s kidnapping. There’s the possibility that she riled someone enough that he/she double-crossed her. Or, the abduction may have gone as TH planned, as the ultimate way of trumping KH’s struggle for control.
MOO
20.twinkletoes says:
November 16, 2010 at 4:22 pm
“I don’t recall if I ever said this out loud or if anyone else has, but it has crossed my mind more than once that TH took out a hit on Kaine with a not so bright hitperson who thought Kyron was the hit. Kaine, Kyron–they sound a lot alike to a dumbass. Just a thought.”
not sure if you said it here and that’s what got ME thinking that at one point too, or where it came from, but I had the same thought and did not want to post it here for fear that people would tell me to quit posting my crazy theories. Language says so much more than it says… there is a reason we have forensic linguists.
B-Since reading here, you are very informative,(you and your crew). I have also come to the conculasion that the MFH and Kyrons abduction are related, or else they would have charged TH by now for the MFH. That brings me to think if they did go ahead and do this,(charge for MFH), and it played out in court and say she got 6months, and probation/parole (whatever, not to sure about these things, thank goodness!). Then they solved Kyrons case, and IT WAS all related, could they then not even try her for Kyrons case, since she had been through to MFH already, or could they just not bring up how the MFH and Kyron disapperance/murder were connected? Where does double Jeopardy come into play?
I believe this is why she has not been charged yet. They need to connect it all, and charge her with everything at one time, since it is all related, then all those charges she will be held accountable for in her day in court, Kyron, and the MFH, and how they all tie in together.MOO
2.lyla says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:13 pm
42.Kimberly says:
November 17, 2010 at 11:13 am
2.riverpearl says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Idahogal~
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner.I was not avoiding your question, just cannot find what I saw before … but did find this clip: notice the truck bed @ ~2:01.
*************************************************************
WOW! and holy crap!
However; my first response is Naaaa, NO WAY!
wouldn’t a coroner be present? the way the
“items”(s) are positioned looks quite un professional
and not what I would expect to see for remains recovery.
To me it looks just thrown in the back of a truck!
And I reallllllly hope it’s not what I’m seeing, especially
in the manner of the picture, As a parent seeing it that way
would be traumatic.
————————————–
Come on. What did you find….share puleeeeze!
wth did I miss?
B
___________________
I was wondering the same thing. I looked back a bit at other posts, but cant find it.
have not caught up reading posts – am at midday on 11/16 but have to say in re the emails to an “extended family” member… who we now know was Amanda (do we KNOW?). Maybe Amanda and TH secreted Ky away because of something screwy with Kristian. When I first heard “extended family” member I immediately thought of people surrounding the brother (Kristian) with the sex issues, especially in light of B’s contention that this had something to do with a sex crime (paraphasing).
I am back and forth as to who is guilty of what exactly, and of what happened to Kyron. I was never set on a theory or a person, other thn something nefarious happening. So many postings have raised very valid thoughts and questions, and yet I am still grasping for anything solid on which to rest. I will admit that my disdain for KH is slowing growing and my hinky meter starting to quiver in his direction…
REGARDLESS, where is Kyron?
Terri was in favor of him moving to Desiree’s, and yes, that would have necessitated child support on HIS part, and she was in favor of it any way, so that is not it.
B
++++++++++++++++++++++
We know that Terri told DY she wanted Kyron to go live with her. We do not know what Terri said to Kaine about the matter. She seems like she is different depending on whom she is with. It would seem to me, she would tell DY that, and mean it, to get the ball rolling. But when asked by KH, how do we know her response was yes, get him out? We dont know, she could have said no to Kaine. Why play the wicked stepmother card that wanted his boy out of the house? If DY spoke of TH suggestion, TH could have dismissed it as a lie. Its obvious to me TH is manipulative. Just a thought, she could have said one thing to DY, and another to KH, just to get the ball rolling, the discussion, the possible rift. My point to this ramble is, we know she told DY she wanted her to take Kyron, did she tell KH the same thing?
Mother Hen says:
November 16, 2010 at 3:04 pm
I am also not of the belief that just because a person may have been abused in there early years makes them vulnerable to be an abuser. I completely disagree with that. I an abused person becomes an abuser, I believe they are hard-wired to be so.
**********************************
@Mother Hen – With all due respect this is a misstatement on your part. I have seen first hand that an abused child will often repeat the cycle with their own kids unless they receive treatment and therapy. They often think it is the “right” way to discipline a child and/or assume it is acceptable behavior. Ask any psychologist, psychiatrist or counselor. Thankfully our society has become better educated and aware of these issues but we still have a long way to go.
This link provides lots of stats on child abuse, it may shock some.
http://www.childhelp.org/pages/statistics#abuse-conseq
It was a video clip from a news station reporting on the dive teams on SI this weekend. At around 2 min into the clip, the camera panned where the rescue and dive team vehicles were parked. There was a pick up truck with a stretcher and body bag on the bed of the truck. I watched it several times. I think it’s routine gear taken to “recovery dives” just in case they find a body (we all know that’s what they’re looking for). The stretcher looked to be just kind of thrown on the truck and the body bag looked empty to me.
********************************************************************
November 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Idahogal~
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner.I was not avoiding your question, just cannot find what I saw before … but did find this clip: notice the truck bed @ ~2:01.
*************************************************************
WOW! and holy crap!
However; my first response is Naaaa, NO WAY!
wouldn’t a coroner be present? the way the
“items”(s) are positioned looks quite un professional
and not what I would expect to see for remains recovery.
To me it looks just thrown in the back of a truck!
And I reallllllly hope it’s not what I’m seeing, especially
in the manner of the picture, As a parent seeing it that way
would be traumatic.
————————————–
Come on. What did you find….share puleeeeze!
wth did I miss?
B
Yes, absolutely routine, thanks.
B
3.Camsmom says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:14 pm
“Work your magic GOD and bring Kyron home to his mom and dad”
With all due respect, and I may get booted after posting this, but if [G]od works magic, why did he or she let this happen in the first place? What kind of god would (a) let this happen and then (b) work magic to solve it?
God doesn’t harm children, bad people do.
What is going on here today? Seriously?
B
This my thoughts or observations about Kaine which may or may not be nonsense.
I think that Kaine at the very least exaggerates the truth in some of his statements about TH. I don’t understand why he does this. Maybe it is because….
1. He really thinks Terri is an awful person and wants to make sure he gets his point across, so what’s wrong with a little embellishment?
2. Because LE or his divorce lawyer advised him to vilify TH as much as he could in the Media, to somehow aid in finding Kyron and or the custody of Kiara.
3. TH is gonna reveal some really bad things about him in the divorce hearing/trial, and he is trying to mitigate her statements by convincing everyone beforehand that she is an alcoholic psyco who cannot be believed.
4. Everything he is saying is true.
JMO, I’ll bet that we probably will all get to read at least part of the emails from TH about Kyron that LE shared with Kaine and Desiree in his next divorce/custody/visitation filing.
BTW I realize that all this conjecture about Kaine doesn’t have much to do with determining the whereabouts of poor Kyron. But since we have no new clues from LE, and we are not able to observe TH’s reactions, there isn’t much else to speculate about. I think most posters here have pretty much expressed/formed their theories as to what happened on June 4 given the information we already have. I’m still working on mine since it has changed about ten times already.
A thought on why TH hasn’t been charged in the MFH. It could be they don’t have enough evidence. They have he said and she said. If they both took lie detector tests then LE knows which one to believe but that isn’t enough for an arrest. If there was no attempt made and no money exchanged then it could be difficult to prove.
@Kimberly- I hope you don’t think I was picking on you, I think you are adorable and enjoy your posts.
**********************************
Sheila says:
November 16, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Catching up here….
So, what I’m gathering here…. DeDe took Kyron…whether she sent someone to take him, Terri told Kyron to meet her…whatever. Ultimately, Kyron ended up with AS-S?
@Sheila- I’m trying to catch up as well, lol. IIRC it could not have been AS-S, he was in jail on June 4th.
**************************************
@riverpearl- No apolly needed,dear, I found the info. in no time. Here are my answers to your questions, all IMO: TH is a teacher so she would work with Ky on homework, projects, etc. Another show: I’m thinking body building again (although she is just about at the age limit for that!). Clean the gutters: Yes, absolutely, I do it, too. Not sure if I would believe TH did, lol.
************************************
Malty says:
November 17, 2010 at 2:30 pm
@Malty- I am so sorry that you lost your child! There cannot be anything worse, I cannot imagine. I will say a special prayer for you today, XO.
******************************
Kozyotb says:
November 17, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Blink – In your opinion do you think Kyron left school on June 4th with RS?
no
B
I can’t believe Blink finally said this. OMG, so much more for me to think about. I need some Aleve AND a bottle of Alive, what a week it has been here. Insert a tiny crap! here.
Idahogal,
With all due respect in return
I did not mistate anything. I said it is NOT MY belief. It is true that I don’t believe everything I read.
Psychology is an interesting science where perspectives and data keep changing. It is a realtively new science. There is plenty of data with respect to child development where they were convinced earlier that young children did not have the capacity to show certain emotions, have certain feelings about things, and have the ability to reason (know right and wrong) until certain ages. THAT DATA is changing. Further, the simple fact that I am a Mother gives me the ability to see how wrong some of that data can be.
I believe, if given the chance to SEE and KNOW different realities (abusive and nonabusive) a child who is NOT hard-wired to be so will choose the non-abusive path. The reasoning I disagree with is similiar to saying: Holocaust survivors will turn out to be Hitlers if they are NOT taught that it is NOT OK. Again, not MY belief.
===================================
Idahogal says:
November 17, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Mother Hen says:
November 16, 2010 at 3:04 pm
I am also not of the belief that just because a person may have been abused in there early years makes them vulnerable to be an abuser. I completely disagree with that. I an abused person becomes an abuser, I believe they are hard-wired to be so.
**********************************
@Mother Hen – With all due respect this is a misstatement on your part. I have seen first hand that an abused child will often repeat the cycle with their own kids unless they receive treatment and therapy. They often think it is the “right” way to discipline a child and/or assume it is acceptable behavior. Ask any psychologist, psychiatrist or counselor. Thankfully our society has become better educated and aware of these issues but we still have a long way to go.
This link provides lots of stats on child abuse, it may shock some.
http://www.childhelp.org/pages/statistics#abuse-conseq
16.wordweaver says:
November 17, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Amy’s sister says: “When you can see white around a persons iris it can be a sign of mental issues. I noticed that in her DUI photo, her competition photos, and when she was going down the slide with James in the Dateline clip. We’re going to find out she is mentally disturbed and quite capable of harming Ky or causing him to be harmed, I’m certain of it.”
@ wordweaver
Just a side-light note here: I just went upstairs to the bathroom where the lighting is very good & I passed with flying colors “much to my surprise, LOL whew~ No white around the irises of my eyes~
sorry ,I couldnt pass this up
Re: Come on. What did you find….share puleeeeze!
wth did I miss?
B
___________________
I was wondering the same thing. I looked back a bit at other posts, but cant find it.
Here’s what they are referrin to: On Nov. 16, at 2:56 pm, Riverpearl shared a link to a news video. (Its easy to find, two pages back.) At 2:01 in that video, as the reporter says “divers did recover a few things,” there is a shot of a LE pickup with something silver and something black sticking up out of the back. The black item looks vaguely like an upright bodybag. But, for many reasons, I think that it is highly, highly unlikely that what is seen in the pickup has anything even remotely to do with any human remains.
Idahogal,
This is a complicated subject really. And I don’t want to seem like a contradiction. But here goes:
I do believe that children can mimick their parents behaviors. I do see it. We can teach our children to be nasty or kind by simply behaving one way or another. BUT it does not mean that it happens always and I feel as long as there is the ability to know another reality, then at some point, a child can decide their own path and what is right and wrong. They will either be repulsed by abusive ways, or they won’t be. Maybe that light won’t be seen until young adulthood, but if there is FREEDOM to choose and more than one example, that true nature will show through — one way or another.
MY OPINION.
I look at Blink’s place as a learning place. She has expressed that is what it is. We will never be able to bring any really direct positive outcome to poor Kyron’s horrible experience but we can learn to look within as well as out and maybe have a positive outcome on something we do have the ability to act directly upon. No one will win a prize for being right or be punished for being wrong. I get the tunnel vision point because I suffer from it often ( I root for the underdog almost without fail). This is directly related to the 30,000 feet analogy. Learn so you can think with your head (honorable) and not with your heart (well maybe a little bit with your heart) a fine line to find. I have to remember that real monsters do not necessarily look like monsters and real angel do not always look like angels. Those helping may be cloaked in evil? Just a thought, we have forgotten the referred to December 26th, 911 call. It was as I recall brought up by TH’s attorney as if a signal to Kaine. If that call related to LS then they may be showing Kaine that they will show he did know about the LS. Just a thought.
CD posted interview from July, linked below:
Somewhere around 15-16 min mark, KH and DY are discussing TMHs history of lies. KH mentions the DUI and the stimulants TMH was using while preparing for her body building competition, and that TMH was drinking herself to sleep. THIS WAS NOT SOME REVELATION that DY got on Friday during the LE briefing, and was not something she got from the court filings of late. Likely, she had no idea at the time that it was happening-but by July she knew about it.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/terri_hormans_emails_to_kyron.html
I am not trying to call DY a liar because that poor woman has been through hell and back and still living in hell. I am just saying that it contradicts what was being said in the Today interview. Unless of course there is some other info we are not privvy to that just came to light (separate from the alcohol use).
I keep thinking roid rage.
I personally believe that Desiree is referring to something that may not have been made public.
B
[Blink] Agreed, when I used the term tunnel vision, it was referring to anyone that regardless of whatever information comes to light, will not factor it if it conflicts with their already firm opinion.
B
________________________________
Thanks for pointing that out. Spot on. I have had my hunches all along, and at times tried to fit new information into my own gut “feeling.” I would like to think that I base my beliefs on logic, and do, to the extent that I can. But there is so much emerging information, so many nuances and twists and turns, that sometimes I get so confused, for lack of tunnel vision, that I think my CAT did it! I am not even kidding.
—————————–
On another note:
@RichM (& Ms. Blink)-I think that we are not privvy to the most sinister portions of the emails that Des read, the ones that relate to severe hatred of Ky. My thought is that it must have been extremely devastating for them to read, and I say this based Des’s raw emotion when talking about it, and on KH’s recent seemingly further, “distancing himself” from TH -In the past he referred to her as ‘Terri’ and ‘She,’ or ‘her’ -but the other day, actually referred to her a couple of times as, “it.”
I just wanted to leave another thought regarding alcoholism and addiction.
When someone is an alcoholic and is not drinking, they are STILL an alcoholic. Many of the same behaviors are there until the alcoholism is treated (and even afterwards.) The lack of personal responsibility is there even when they are not drinking. It is never their fault. It is always someone else to blame but them. They are never fully accountable for their actions.
As I stated before the alcoholic in my life took up internet addiction as a form of replacement. They werent drinking. They were just up all nite obsessed with talking/whatever they were doing on the net all nite long. This person is STILL an alcoholic even when they are not drinking.
TMH may have stopped drinking after her DUI. KH may have assumed she stopped for good and after getting pregnant and having Kitty she probably didn’t drink then either. But she was still an alcoholic. She still lacks the emotional maturity to take responsibility for her own actions. She may have taken on a computer addiction (very likely) and that causes her to be strung out, up late, and not paying kitty any mind.
I never would have believed how far and how insidius this disease is until I lived it myself.
Just a thought and MOO
@Blink: yes you said so well what I was trying to say. There was definitely SOMETHING else going on that we do not know of yet.
@Puzzled you said: And Kaine’s PC on Monday .. that was no pre-planned “let’s keep looking” appeal to the public; he was attempting to minimize the impact of Desiree’s accusations against him.
Puzzled, you need to watch it in totality. It most definitely WAS a lets keep looking, and KH had great ideas about sending the flyers out with everything you mail out and ship over this holiday season. Great idea. He did not see Desirees today show and stated as much.
Hearing her accusations secondhand most likely made him defensive and yes I do not not blame him at all. He really did not know what she had said and was on the spot for sure. Not to mention the GUILT to the extreme, knowing that DY DID want Ky and he said no, whether they both decided it was the right thing or the wrong thing.
It is all so very sad.
I hope they find out the truth very soon. THis is hard to take and I feel so badly for the family.