Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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Ode says:
November 17, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Just a thought, we have forgotten the referred to December 26th, 911 call. It was as I recall brought up by TH’s attorney as if a signal to Kaine. If that call related to LS then they may be showing Kaine that they will show he did know about the LS.
~~~
Just thinking here… I get that Rackner wants to get TH’s story, at least in a deposition, on the record. She is a former prosecutor.
And I get why Bunch just wants a divorce, yesterday .. at all cost to TH, if necessary. My guess is Houze, at the very least, suspects TH will be charged with something in the criminal case.
Here’s my conflict … I’m sure Bunch and Houze have counter arguments against Kaine’s allegations. Why are they not being used? Apparently, Kaine is refusing any kind of offer to get divorced now and is sticking to the demands made by his attorney… or else his allegations must be declared “true” by the court.
This drip drip drip of information is torture .. not just for TH, but Desiree as well.
Anyone???
Kozyotb says:
November 17, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Blink – In your opinion do you think Kyron left school on June 4th with RS?
no
B
———————–
Gads, how did I miss this?? Thanks Idahogal for alerting me to it.
Blink may I ask — was RS there?
@Malty — I am so sorry for your loss.
FWIW, I have snipped quotes from TH’s father and her close friend in this People magazine article from July 5th. Obviously her father and friend have also been told a particular story. It could very well be that TH and KH have told versions of this story to many people rather than say “Oh, he was married, his wife was pregnant and I had an affair with him” or “I was married, my wife was pregnant and I had an affair with her”.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20397133,00.html
“She’s a mess. I talk to her at least every other day,” says Jennifer Jones, a close friend. “She sends me text messages at random and says, ‘I miss my son; I want my son back.’ It’s heartbreaking to talk to her.”
“Kaine being a new father didn’t know how to raise a baby by himself,” says Jones. “So Terri stepped in-and being friends with Desiree-said, ‘I will come and I will help you take care of Kyron.’” Jones says after the divorce was final, a relationship blossomed between Kaine and Horman, “and they have been together ever since.” The couple wed in 2007.
“The whole family would dress up,” says her father, Larry Moulton, 72, a retired teacher. “She’s really good with her kids.” In essence, says Moulton, Horman “raised Kyron since he was in the cradle.”
Thanks for all your recent comments, Blink. I have always believed that the alleged MFH is linked to Kyron’s disappearance. I hope and pray that LE is eventually able to collect the circumstantial evidence that will allow the prosecutor to knit a whole cloth for the jury. The recent intense searches of Sauvie and the anguished expression on Dy’s face during her last interview suggest very strongly that LE is getting closer to accomplishing this goal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
48.Madilu says:
November 17, 2010 at 6:25 pm
“On another note:
@RichM (& Ms. Blink)-I think that we are not privvy to the most sinister portions of the emails that Des read, the ones that relate to severe hatred of Ky. My thought is that it must have been extremely devastating for them to read, and I say this based Des’s raw emotion when talking about it, and on KH’s recent seemingly further, “distancing himself” from TH -In the past he referred to her as ‘Terri’ and ‘She,’ or ‘her’ -but the other day, actually referred to her a couple of times as, “it.”
******
@Madilu: What a brilliant observation you have made on KH’s recent choice of words. We are definitely on the same page, my friend.
******
Some may wonder why someone who watched CSI or read true crime novels would write such potentially incriminating emails or reveal so much of herself to friends IF she planned or executed this crime. Well, IMHO, no matter how intelligent or educated a person may be, when one chooses to engage in criminal behavior one’s common sense usually takes a holiday.
Prayers for Kyron and all who love him.
Thinking about TH’s perpetual rant of complaints about Kaine/Kyron to “anyone who would listen”; repeated rants or complaints about something that angers us is not necessarily cathartic. We practice our anger in many cases and it can have the effect of winding us up tighter. I know I have had moments in my life where I’ve been like a pitbull with a bone, getting more worked up the longer I perseverate on something that is bugging me. This repetitive voicing (internally and externally)of anger, making our point, and honing it to a finer point with each rant can provide the impetus to final rage unless we pull back, take a deep breath, and deal with the issue in a healthier way.
Those in possession of themselves will permit the escalation to resolve itself without terminating in rage and retribution. Many who escape to substance abuse to palliate the pain/anger find it resurfaces repeatedly until it culminates in rage. This rage has a way of taking over until the person is no longer in control.
It would not surprise me one bit if Kyron became the object of a rage that had been building for quite some time. I am not inclined to point the finger at Kaine (anymore than at Kyron) as the culprit in all this. Terri blamed them for everything that was wrong with her life. What she failed to see is that SHE was what was wrong with her life and everyone else became her scapegoat. A deeply regrettable situation, but likely one that appeared to come out of left field by those around her.
lizzygoat says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:41 am
What do you suppose Desiree means by “things that you don’t talk about with children”
Hi Lizzy, When I was listening to Desiree talking, I interpreted that spoken sentence as a contraction of;
things that you don’t talk about with regard to children
———————————————————
GraceintheHills says:
November 17, 2010 at 7:31 pm
Some may wonder why someone who watched CSI or read true crime novels would write such potentially incriminating emails or reveal so much of herself to friends IF she planned or executed this crime. Well, IMHO, no matter how intelligent or educated a person may be, when one chooses to engage in criminal behavior one’s common sense usually takes a holiday.
Prayers for Kyron and all who love him
————————————–
GraceintheHills, For me that is the statement of the day. You nailed it right there.
And, off topic, I see your dog Grace joyfully bounding in the hills every time I see your posts. I feel I know Grace’s brother in spirit. Crosby, the leaping black lab mix I took care of this summer, here in the hills of Connecticut. He’s back home now, in low country shores of South Carolina and I miss him so.
TY, Idahogal.
Okay, I’ll bite.
Blink, did Kyron leave with AS-S?
I still feel that Kyron was moved more than once when he was taken at the school.
From the truck that DeDe and Terri had him in when they left the school to someone else (3rd party) close by
That 3rd party then took Kyron to another destination.
I base this on some intuitive/psychic hits about him but also the facts that Blink said Terri’s actions caused Kyron to be harmed but that she didn’t actually do the harm to him.
Could it be that TH was threatened by the vampire/s before to have someone in her family hurt/kidnapped/etc., before June 4 and that is why James was shipped off. Maybe there were threats prior to Kyron being kidnapped and she wanted her child out of the way, Kyron would be going on a trip with Kaine and then DY’s and she would only have to protect Kitty. What did she do to someone(who is either unstable or violent anyway) to piss them off so bad if this is the case? This kinda makes sense. Blink, do you have any clue or inkling as to what may have been going on with TH behind closed doors other than affairs?
puzzled says:
November 17, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Ode says:
November 17, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Just a thought, we have forgotten the referred to December 26th, 911 call. It was as I recall brought up by TH’s attorney as if a signal to Kaine. If that call related to LS then they may be showing Kaine that they will show he did know about the LS.
————–
Did we ever determine there was really a call on December 26th? I thought in that earlier discussion someone brought up that all the 911 calls “for the previous 6 months” were requested and the date that marked the 6 months was Dec. 26th. I don’t remember the date of the request or who made this comment, but I’ll see if I can find it in a search. If not, maybe one of you will remember it too.
I keep going back to one thing. Kyron did not leave the school with Terri Horman that day. If he had, she would be in jail for something, make no mistake about that.
They published Dede flyers and truck flyers and Terri flyers and to date, they cannot and do not have a witness or shred of evidence that Kyron left with her. They are looking for a 3rd person because there IS a third person.
B
——
Unaccounted for guy chaperone she mentions- who is that?
B
——-
Blink – In your opinion do you think Kyron left school on June 4th with RS?
no
B
———————–
OK. I’m going with the third person is
Elsy
Mother Hen says:
November 17, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Idahogal,
This is a complicated subject really. And I don’t want to seem like a contradiction. But here goes:
I do believe that children can mimick their parents behaviors. I do see it. We can teach our children to be nasty or kind by simply behaving one way or another. BUT it does not mean that it happens always and I feel as long as there is the ability to know another reality, then at some point, a child can decide their own path and what is right and wrong. They will either be repulsed by abusive ways, or they won’t be. Maybe that light won’t be seen until young adulthood, but if there is FREEDOM to choose and more than one example, that true nature will show through — one way or another.
MY OPINION.
Okay, hit the button accident too soon, please delete 11-17-10 10:04 comment. Just not meant to be.
49.Rich M says:
November 17, 2010 at 6:28 pm
———————-
I wanted to point out that refusal to acknowledge that one has a problem is symptomatic of other forms of mental illness, too. I have a relative diagnosed with clinical depression (I believe bi-polar disorder would be a more accurate diagnosis) who refuses to take medication or seek therapy b/c she is convinced that she is OK and everyone is against her. My relative also makes false accusations about people and the stories she tells about them become more and more convoluted with time. That’s why I would tend to believe KH before I would TH when they give conflicting accounts of what was happening in the Horman household. I forgot to mention this earlier, but Rich’s post reminded me of it. If TH has an underlying psychiatric disorder, alcoholism would likely exacerbate the condition – sort of a “double whammy.”
All,
Are we all totally convinced that Terri wanted Kyron to live with Desiree because she hated him? Let’s just say that we are NOT aware of the alleged emails yet, but are aware that Terri would call Desiree when Kyron was upset. Terri was assisting Kyron with his needs, not hindering those needs Terri was all for Kyron living with Desiree and Desiree wanted the same, it seems.
Are we entirely sure that Kyron wanted to leave as a result of Terri the monster? Remeber, I have asked you to act as if we are not aware of alleged emails. What if Terri was not the reason Kyron wanted to leave? We have heard stories about how Terri would keep Kyron in his room, etc., etc., was hard on him about his performance in class, etc., etc., but who did we hear these details from?
I’m sorry, there are too many holes for me.
Rich M says:
November 17, 2010 at 6:28 pm
I just wanted to leave another thought regarding alcoholism and addiction.
When someone is an alcoholic and is not drinking, they are STILL an alcoholic. Many of the same behaviors are there until the alcoholism is treated (and even afterwards.) The lack of personal responsibility is there even when they are not drinking. It is never their fault. It is always someone else to blame but them. They are never fully accountable for their actions.
As I stated before the alcoholic in my life took up internet addiction as a form of replacement. They werent drinking. They were just up all nite obsessed with talking/whatever they were doing on the net all nite long. This person is STILL an alcoholic even when they are not drinking.
TMH may have stopped drinking after her DUI. KH may have assumed she stopped for good and after getting pregnant and having Kitty she probably didn’t drink then either. But she was still an alcoholic. She still lacks the emotional maturity to take responsibility for her own actions. She may have taken on a computer addiction (very likely) and that causes her to be strung out, up late, and not paying kitty any mind.
I never would have believed how far and how insidius this disease is until I lived it myself.
Just a thought and MOO
@ Rich M – You are absolutely right and thanks for posting it. I’m sure you have your challenges with the person you refer to, to say the least. I hope you find continued strength and wisdom.
It is very hard to believe how some people go from one addiction to another. They take all the skills they learned hiding the first addiction and put them to use again. The description of Terri’s internet use did seem to me to be like an addiction in the way it impacted her time and the way she used it – according to what we first learned about Terri.
And while I’m thinking about her internet use – I thought she said on her FB page that SHE really wanted to do the bodybuilding again – not the way it comes across in the April 6th email just released. I assumed that’s what the “show” referred to.
Melissalab, that makes a ton of sense to me. I am not ready yet to throw teri on a skewer, i want evidence.
5.WriterInTheRain says:
November 17, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Well said, WriterInTheRain. I think that is the reason TH became so careless with the e-mails. She wasn’t thinking about the trail of evidence she was leaving behind b/c she didn’t plan to harm Kyron until her ranting and raving built up and came to a boil.
44.familythx says:
November 16, 2010 at 8:18 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks, familythx. I agree with so much of what you say about KH. I have no doubt that he has some well-entrenched, peculiar peccadillos and idiosyncracies–as do most of us–but disappearing his own son just doesn’t seem to be one of them.
BTW, I think you have some cogent arguments in your writings, so I sure hope you will continue to post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WRT alleged alcohol abuse in the Horman household: The original founders of Alcoholics Anonymous didn’t call the disease “cunning, baffling and powerful” without good reason. It is an awful disease that, if left untreated, will progress and is quite capable to destroying even the most loving families.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
6.annals says:
November 17, 2010 at 8:36 pm
Thank you for the compliment, Annals.
And, yes, my Gracie is poetry in motion as she runs the hills….well, if I’m totally honest she sometimes breaks into what we lovingly refer to as her Wild-Assed Woman Sprint” and it is a sight to behold, indeed. She would have loved running the grounds with Crosby. He sounds lovely.
Talking about the pooches makes me think of little Kyron’s cat. Oh, the sheer heartbreak of it all.
Annals says
things that you don’t talk about with regard to children
Possibly, I didn’t think of that. I was wondering if Terri had written in the e-mail about things she had said to Kyron…hatred of Kyron..I wonder if she belittled his sexual gender given her own sexual inappropriateness and…hypersexuality. When I read that my arms got goosebumps. I think what is in that email is going to be shocking.
Thank you, Blink “as to God not harming children~ bad people do”
God “if you are a believer” does not “perform” MAGIC but eventually does bring things to light & often times points His almighty finger in the direction of the bad guys~! or finds the murdered & lost~
As too the Why???? God has given us the tools & often times we take the wheel in our own hands & struggle harder then we really have to with life~ He has given us a FREE will & choices to make because he is a just God ~ it is what we do with these that decide the outcome
In the my humble opinion of the Bible ~ I believe God is a God of love ~ Man in his utter ignorance has created th chaos
I respect what you wrote, but I do not think this is the place for religious debates, and it spreads like crab grass in an instant.
B
sorry for the typos
I understand~I didnt mean it to come across like that~I think the term “Magic” probably sparked me~ I hope I didnt offend ~
No offense taken.
I know you were really talking to your inner you because this case is such a faith tester-
For me, I think speaking about one’s spirituality is uber subjective and I would have no comfort moderating such a discussion if it were even appropriate here.
B
All,
Does Kaine drink? No matter your answer, how do you know?
Thank you.
Ok YOU ALL,
BE HONEST, WHO HASN’T GONE AND LOOKED AT THE MIRROR TO SEE IF YOUR EYES SHOW WHITES AROUND THE EDGES?
HARD TO DO! YOU HAVE TO REALLY BUG OUT YOUR EYES AND THEY DRY OUT QUICKLY! TIS HARD TO BE A PSYCHOTIC!
(YES, THIS IS WHAT THIS WAIT FOR INFORMATION HAS TURNED ME INTO!)
This was in reference to #38 Desertgirl @ #3 Camsmom & your comment back
@Rich
With all due respect, we differ in our impression of Kaine. At your suggestion, I did re-watch the Monday press conference.
I heard contradictions in how Kaine saw all the things going on, but he never saw it coming. He would vacillate between how monstrous Terri was and how he didn’t see her as a danger to Kyron. When asked direct questions about his divorce from Desiree and subsequent hook up with Terri, Kaine became agitated. In responding to other questions from reporters, he would be dismissive in his answers.
I watched Kaine become defensive when asked about Desiree’s statement she had tried for a year to have Ky live with her; and then be dismissive of the effort she made to have that happen. In previous PCs, Kaine would minimize or correct Desiree, when she has said things that appear to be “off script”.
This press conference could have been held anytime; last Sunday, this Friday … instead, Kaine scheduled one for the same morning his ex-wife had an on-air interview, without him. And an interview in which she expressed her feelings of dismay and distrust.
I understand people’s need to identify with Kaine as a a grieving father who is living every parent’s worse nightmare. But I see him as an angry man who is trying to maintain some semblance of control.
I had a son-in-law and a father with untreated diabetics
both would not take care of it
one died at 47 the other at 63 both in bad shape
my husband is insulin dependent
now let me say this no one acts as out of it like
a diabetic when their sugar is of
Thank God my husband takes care of himself
Some one here could have diabetics often
thought something else
Blink, I just wanted to say thanks for always saving us from ourselves. By that I mean keeping our posts on topic and allowing no bashing ect.
You once wrote ‘moderation is key’- I had no idea it applied to commenting on blogs too.
I appreciate how much goes into ensuring that we all remain focused on the victims and not on proving our points ect
It would be easy for any one of us to vent our anger and frustration and for it to get out of hand fast. I appreciate that you work hard to make sure that isn’t happening.
I truly hope that the focus can remain on bringing Kyron home, and prosecuting whomever did this. Kyron deserves so much more than being an afterthought in the whole ugly divorce. JMO
I realize much of what we have learned, may have alot to do with what happened to Kyron. For me, its hard to keep that in mind, when everything seems to be only so much fodder for the gossip rags…
Life is stranger than fiction & sometimes far more horrible than our nightmares.
Prayers for Kyron and his family. G’night all.
Before anyone thinks I think diabetic people
harm kids
NO Way
but I have seen the paranoid rants and rages
from untreated diabetics close up and personal
just a thought to throw out
I think low you mean people with out of whack blood sugar in general.
B
LE is looking for someone Blink said. It is not RS, AS is in custody so they shouldn’t be looking there! Elsy disappeared in May, so she couldn’t have taken him, but they ARE looking for her and kids. Is it the real mystery person that we don’t know at all, but TMH did? WAS there relay pass-offs of Kyron? RS set up the person maybe, at least by giving her a name, AS is somehow also involved with this greater plot.
I am thinking TMH was involved in the planning due to the coinkadinks with truck, doctors appt. drama, unaccounted time, not trying to pick up the exhibit, wierdo behavior,etc.and something went wrong with what she had planned (even criminals didn’t trust her)and it went from bad to worse. All this is superimposed on an already existing criminal background, even beyond the MFH.
Professional opinion of mine: Basically there is addiction (not specifically alcoholism or cannabis dependence, etc.) , people pick up what they choose and they like, somewhat what is handy, cross-addiction (adding or changing addictions)is common, including with legal substances (e.g.nicotene) and behaviors (gambling, electronic addictions, shopping/spending money). Some people are, unfortunately for them, set up as they come out of the chute with their genetics, a good argument for knowing the genetics. Association with people, stressors (and how many people don’t have stressors?) and just plain old indulgence plays a role too. Strong addictions need a life-long program to keep them in check, they are kind of like trying to keep cancer from returning. If you are hearing someone’s story about their behavior, and you are thinking, “whaa?, WT*?, this is really crazy”! – I would bet, with only small exceptions, you are talking to an addict (possibly mentally ill too or both together are also common).
MockingbirdSings says:
And while I’m thinking about her internet use – I thought she said on her FB page that SHE really wanted to do the bodybuilding again – not the way it comes across in the April 6th email just released. I assumed that’s what the “show” referred to.
—————————————————
Hinky Meter has a new post up today that highlights the two (or more) faces of TH. It provides a list of how her FB posts contradict what she stated in her April 6 email, including the bodybuilding issue you referenced above.
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/11/17/kyron-horman-case-the-two-faces-of-terri/
Malty,
Sending you sweet, pure love.
I can relate.
Love,
J4K
@graceinthehills
The original founders of Alcoholics Anonymous didn’t call the disease “cunning, baffling and powerful” without good reason.
What a motto right? It just oozes successful sobriety.
RichM, a long time ago I “was” an alcoholic. After reading your comment I am so very grateful that my friends and family, hubby had a wonderful vision of my future, removed of any addictions. I could not imagine what it would have been like if everyone expected another addiction around the corner.
38.DesertGirl says:
November 17, 2010 at 4:59 pm
3.Camsmom says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:14 pm
“Work your magic GOD and bring Kyron home to his mom and dad”
With all due respect, and I may get booted after posting this, but if [G]od works magic, why did he or she let this happen in the first place? What kind of god would (a) let this happen and then (b) work magic to solve it?
God doesn’t harm children, bad people do.
What is going on here today? Seriously?
B
@Desertgirl
@Camsmom
See above : This is what I was referencing to.. I wasnt trying to start a religious debate, I am sorry if I offended anyone
I respect what you wrote, but I do not think this is the place for religious debates, and it spreads like crab grass in an instant.
B
~~~~~~~~~~
AMEN
The last search on Sauve Island included 4 dozen divers and support with the use of sonar.
I was curious as to what body recovery sonar would be able to pick up and how it worked. It took me a while to understand what was going on, so I’m only writing about it now.
In the early 1970s commercial side scans were being used to look for downed aircraft, vessels, cars and other items of interest. Although good for detecting larger targets, the older systems were lower in frequency and limited in their display resolution, and as such they lacked the ability to detect a body.
Today’s’ high frequency scanning and side scan sonars now have the resolution required to detect a body, and are routinely used for this type of application
The use of sonar and its applicability to this type of search program will be dependent upon many factors. This paper examines the advantages – and limitations – of using scanning and side scan sonar for body detection.
This is what two divers retrieving a body looks like on sonar.
[img]http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p145/idigweed/1-1.jpg[/img]
With all underwater search programs there are several questions that need to be resolved. When answers to the following questions are determined early in the search planning stages, a host of potential headaches will be avoided. Questions include:
1. Body size/what was the person wearing
2. Who says it is there?
3. Size of the search area?
4. Water depth?
5. Bottom topography?
6. Local Conditions?
7. Availability of on-site logistical support?
Body Size:
Body size must be determined to calculate the required optimum range scale that can be used for the search. A full-grown man can be detected against a low acoustic reflective bottom (such as soft mud) at ranges to 50 metres (typically). A small child will require the searcher to use a shorter-range scale. Always assume that you will have to search for the smallest dimension of the body, which will be the victim’s shoulder width.
Skeletal remains will be extremely difficult if not nearly impossible to acoustically detect and interpret under any circumstance!
Knowing what the person was wearing is important as work boots, heavy cloths, and LE may offer a target with higher acoustic reflectivity. Clothing colour(I’m Canadian so it’s colour, not color) will also be important if an underwater TV camera is used to check a potential target.
So skeletal remains will be almost impossible to detect with sonar. I wonder what the rate of decomposition is on Sauvie Island?
First of all lets get one popular misconception out of the way. Decomposition rates are slowed in the water not accelerated. Having said that it has been 5.5 months since Kyrons disappearance.
Sauvie Island Community Association said that the water in the area is at least 50 degrees F through out the summer. Warmer in some areas and cooler in others. The water temperature depends on current, air temperature and depth of course.
The thing that puzzles me most is the fact that five to eight days after death and placed in the water the bodies gases that fill the lungs normally make the body float. In this case it didn’t. It is possible though that after the lungs fill up they can ‘deflate’ and sink again after a few days. This explains the constant presence by LE. Kaine Horman said on his website that he was “very thankful” to the searchers who have been spending their weekends and the “days in between”.
I think it is important to also point out that hair with skeletal remains in water over 50 degrees 50-365 days after death, generally. No flesh, just hair.
In conclusion, it is my opinion that when looking on Sauvie Island, the only plausible explanation would be that they were looking for a container.
The likelihood of finding skeletal remains with sonar is extremely remote. The fact that Kyron was only seven years old when missing makes this more unlikely. When LE asked for additional funds for the search, LE sounded fiscally responsible. I doubt LE would have four dozen divers there with sonar when there is almost no chance of succeeding in finding the boy.
The only plausible answer is a container. Looking for a container at this stage would make sense. Large enough to encase a seven year old boy it would be a lot easier to pick up on sonar. In fact it’s the only thing that makes sense. Looking for a murder weapon or evidence using sonar is virtually a waste of time. Looking for bones is a waste of time. What’s left?
Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions. Instead of asking ‘who’ was near the truck. I am more curious as to ‘what’ was near the truck. What was in the cab area?
Links and Books that helped me come to my conclusion:
Payne, J.A. (1965). “A summer carrion study of the baby pig sus scrofa Linnaeus”. Ecology 46: 592-602.
“Decay Process of a Cadaver”. In A. Schmidt, E. Cumha, J. Pinheiro. Forensic Anthropology and Medicine. Humana Press. pp. 85-116.
Quigley, C. (1998). Modern Mummies: The Preservation of the Human Body in the Twentieth Century. McFarland. pp. 213–214.
http://etd.lib.ttu.edu/theses/available/etd-07012008-31295019476919/unrestricted/31295019476919.pdf — STANDARDIZED DECOMPOSITION RATES OF HUMAN REMAINS
http://firechief.com/rescue/body_recovery_0908/
http://gralston1.home.mindspring.com/Sidescan.html (side scan sonar)
Lent, K (2002). “Very High Resolution Imaging Diver Held Sonar”. Report to the Office of Naval Research. http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/7497. Retrieved 2008-08-11
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p145/idigweed/1-1.jpg
Direct link for “two divers retrieving a body on sonar” Screen shot includes software used.
http://www.diabitieslife.com/diabetes/diabetes-basics/overview/consequences-of-untreated-diabetes.htm
I went to Att to find how to post a link on this iPhone
just for you Blink
hope I got it
@evie: I think you had asked about how to follow someone’s case (“my candidate”?). Well, my paralegal skills are really rusty, but you have to find out about the court structure–what cases get tried where–unique to each state first.
And you do have to read the text, dry as it is, that explains the system so you’ll know how to track things. That’s before you click on the handy links.
I think this’ll get anybody started in Oregon. Read about the OR court system here:
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/courts/index.page?
For state crimes in OR you’ll be looking for the relevant county circuit court. Find it off the above link. Or use your favorite search engine (like Google) and type in, ex, “multnomah county circuit court”. Their website should come up. Navigate the site, and you’ll find the Court Calendar. Search that as instructed on the Search on that page (usually by phrase: a person’s name, etc. Sometimes might be by case number).
Once a court case no. is assigned, it’ll be posted on the county jail’s page for your person of interest. At least MCSO does that, for sure. Follow him around by case number too.
For Multnomah county, here’s the link to the circuit court website, with more info and links to other sources:
http://courts.oregon.gov/Multnomah/index.page?
Here’s the link to Mult county’s calendars page. Look at top navigation bar for your court of interest. Look at the left nav bar and click on circuit court calendar, if that’s what you want to see:
http://courts.oregon.gov/sites/Multnomah/General_Info/Calendars/Calendars.page
Here’s the direct link to Mult county court calendars. Each entry is a clickable link, as is the top link that says “Search the Calendars”:
http://www.ojd.state.or.us/multnomah/calendar
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@evie: if you’ve gotten this far, then you will have followed me to the link just below. Scroll down till you see “my candidate’s” weapons charge. (will be within first 3 pgs) Holy crap! The charge is for having a SILENCER on his gun. Okay, I’m with you; this guy needs looking into. Not your average self-protection firearm; not standard LE issue. Not standard security guard issue. Who has a silencer on their person firearm??? Big red flag. Huge.
http://www.ojd.state.or.us/mul/calendar.nsf/3e092eca1afc512e88256827006440b3/830b10c28bcd6394882577dc0053fa35/$FILE/MUL-64421688-WEBJC3.PDF
A couple of random thoughts that won’t go away for me. I read all the comments from those that think TH planned Kyron’s disappearance meticulously so as not to be caught by LE, was smart enough not to get herself arrested in a MFH plan and then turns around and sexts MC knowing her phones were being monitored. (This doesn’t even include Lea’s article about the sexts, that’s another thing altogether don’t you think?) I just don’t get it….how can somebody be so “smart” (devious) on one thing and so “stupid” on the other?
The other thing I can’t stop wondering about is why everyone BUT KH seemed to know that Kyron was going to his mother’s that weekend? I have no idea why I can’t let this go…given his recent statements that he was spending more time at home in order to take care of his children because TH couldn’t I don’t know how in the heck he didn’t know who’s weekend it was. IIRC it was TH that was taking KY down or up there to meet his mother, she’s the one that usually did given her penchant for drinking and driving I find this a tad bit irresponsible of KH to let her drive his son up to visit his son’s mother.
From BOC: Kyron was abducted on June 4, from Skyline School, and it has been confirmed that he was to spend the weekend at Desiree and Tony Young’s home.
From Oregon Live: when Kyron didn’t get off the bus, they thought he might be waiting at Skyline because they had talked earlier of maybe going out for ice cream after school to celebrate the science fair. When they realized he wasn’t there, they panicked, Horman said
Now throw into the pot that Blink doesn’t think LS took Kyron nor does she believe TH took Kyron that brings up back to a 3rd person. Was it De-De…maybe, she’s been known to be the friend…was it MC? Hell for all we know it could have been KH himself, although on second thought that would really be reaching for straws. We can’t forget Elzy and her missing children along with the lone post made WAY back there on BOC about the man in the pic bein’ the grandfather of Elzy’s kid’s and THEY took Kyron with them. And around and around we go.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
Just a FYI, since I’ve been following this case I’m finding instances that have corrected my previous understanding and/or crime statistics about victim gender preference among child molesters. That is, I’ve found a surprising number of instances where both genders were victims.
Don’t have all that at hand, but just ran across one I saw earlier and will post a link here (on June 3 he turned himself in; he did 20 days jail time for parole violation and is out free again, under “community supervision”. So, you’d have to search cached criminal records to find the original records.) Here’s the easily-found remaining website with a summary of Angel Segura’s criminal history in Marion County, OR:
http://mexicancriminalsoforegon.wordpress.com/
*************************
Posting this to alert everyone to NOT dismiss a SO at first glance because you think the SO has a different victim gender preference.
And because the involvement of a SO in Ky’s case has not been ruled out.
MockingbirdSings says:
November 17, 2010 at 9:55 pm
Did we ever determine there was really a call on December 26th? I thought in that earlier discussion someone brought up that all the 911 calls “for the previous 6 months” were requested and the date that marked the 6 months was Dec. 26th.
Hi Mockingbird- I do not recall anyone determining that there was a 911 call on Dec. 26th, I’m under the same impression as you,that it was more of a past six months reference point.
*************************
Mother Hen says:
November 17, 2010 at 5:38 pm
@Mother Hen-Well said, I’m so glad you understood my point. Abuse can be a vicious cycle but with the right tools and awareness it can be stopped.
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Karey says:
November 17, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Snipped-
If TH has an underlying psychiatric disorder, alcoholism would likely exacerbate the condition – sort of a “double whammy.”
@ Karey- Exactly. Thank you for saying that.
With all due respect to everyone here – I’m getting offended by the generalizations being made about alcoholics/addicts here. I respect your opinions of the alcoholics/addicts in your lives that hurt you and/or others, but please don’t assume that everyone is the same. There are a lot of us around that are good, decent, responsible and caring people that overcame something very difficult. The alcohol or drugs tend to exacerbate whatever issues, problems, etc., that the person already has. When someone says “Alcoholics are liars” or “it is never their fault” or this or that, well that’s a pretty big net to cast on everyone that has/had a problem and is not fair. It is more accurate to say “Some alcoholics” or “The alcoholic I knew” did this or that. I hope that makes sense.
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@kitjcat- You are doing some wonderful thinking, great posts, love it.
***********************
Wow, so many of you have responded to my questions, which is exactly what I was hoping for. Everyone is on a roll this week, so many great posts and thoughts, simply marvelous. My thanks to all of you.
***********************
Kozyotb says:
November 17, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Blink – In your opinion do you think Kyron left school on June 4th with RS?
no
B
@Nora- Again, IIRC AS-S was in jail at the time.
@Panda, you suggested Elsy, but she went missing in May,and what about the man chaperone? Would like to hear a theory on that one from you, very interesting.
As a matter of fact, I would like to hear theories about this from as many people as possible! My brain is fried, help…
I know this has nothing to do with everything being said here but I have to write this. My birthday is Sept. 8, Kyron’s is Sept. 9. I sometimes read my horoscope with Kyron in mind. Yesterday it said, “For long, lovely stretches of time, your mind will be relaxed and unconcerned about what has already happened or might happen. This is the happiness and peace you deserve to have always”. I hope this holds true for sweet Kyron. Many prayers today for the brave little guy and love always. Please Lord send Kyron home.
@Writerintherain-well spoken.
To: Mockingbirdsings and Grace-thank you for the reaffirmation of my beliefs. I am sure there are others who know the troubles alcohol can cause even well beyond the actual drinking.
It was said to me once that the age in which someone begins drinking/drugging heavily is the maturity age they will forever be stuck in. The human brain does not fully mature until 25 and yet we have a drinking age of 21 and so many that begin drinking/drugging far earlier than that. It is sad to consider that if a person starts drinking heavily at age 16, they will forever have the emotional maturity of a 16 yo. Sad.
Now, where is Kyron?
Also, my own son, who as I said before is a Kyron look-a-like, will be 8 tomorrow. Every once in a while my son asks, “Mommy, has Kyron come home yet?” Breaks my heart. He is such a sweet little boy, concerned about other people and their feelings. I always worry about how many times his heart will be broken. He’s too good hearted for this world we live in. Whomever he befriends in his life time will sure be lucky because he is true blue. Prayers today for Kyron and Desiree and a good day to all you Blinksters.
Oh Jackie Bauer, you have nothing to be sorry about to me.
I was stunned, just stunned. I had a clear visual.I could find no words-speechless.
Please accept my apology.
Here is a couple clips of songs that well, you’ll hear/understand …
If you can, open 2 screens so you listen (a)Elton’s Solo while watching the (b)Duet video w/o sound.
Elton’s solo has the chorus in english:
Someday we’ll live like horses
Free rein from your old iron fences
There’s more ways than one to regain your senses
Break out the stalls and we’ll live like horses
(a)Elton John – Live Like Horses (solo version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9IPnGuu9vU&feature=fvst
(b) LIVE LIKE HORSES -ELTON JOHN , PAVAROTI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzmtT8AunK8&feature=fvsr
-AND-
Somewhere over the Rainbow – Israel “IZ” Kamakawiwoʻole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I
From a Cat Stevens song~
If I laugh just a little bit
Maybe I can forget the chance
That I didn’t have to know you
And live in peace …
… If I laugh just a little bit
Maybe I can recall the way
That I used to be, before you
And sleep at night — and dream
If I laugh, baby if I laugh
Just a little bit –
Kyron haunts me, Desiree haunts me —
says:
and there is nothing I can do to change what has happen …
________________________________________
Jackie Bauer
November 17, 2010 at 2:57 pm
Riverpearl, I’m sorry. I really am. I have just had the stun gun in my head for a couple of months now. Anyway, I’m sorry, I don’t know why you have no more words, but my guess is that you’re appalled and shocked by the image created. I am, too. It makes me sick to type it, and I’m honestly thinking about Kyron way too much.
___________________________
riverpearl says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:10 am
Ms Bauer, your post @ Jackie Bauer says: Nov 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm, just, well you know & now I read …
Jackie Bauer  says:
November 16, 2010 at 2:13 pm
@Kim in PA & Madilu: “Same thoughts here along those lines. It came to me when trying to define what Kiara could have seen that was “unimaginable horror” and I had an image of Kyron stun gunned (cool electric thing he went trustingly to see) and packed into the box still alive and tossed, weighted into a non-metal (Blink said this above) container. The container might have been weighted with something on the outside, or inside, but it might be part of what LE is searching for in addition to the container since Blink couldn’t make reference to the other stuff. Very neat, no blood, etc. I hate the thought, but your description makes sense to me, too.”
and I simply have no more words…
__________________________________
riverpearl says:
November 16, 2010 at 10:52 pm
Spot on Ms Bauer.
Desiree is a truly amazing, strong woman & mother who loves her son Kyron so completely.
And when I go ‘there’ about all she is going thru & being w/o Kyron, I pull up a photo of the two of them. Smiling, happy & so crazy with love for each other … and say to myself, Yes he knew/felt all the love she had for him, as she felt/knew he had for her. And I wish, so wish they could have more of those times, those days, those years …
JMHO
__________________
Jackie Bauer  says:
November 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm
I know that Desiree is beyond grief and fear and anger, I don’t know how she’s even managing to hold it together this far, and I only wish there were something I could do to help. There isn’t. But at the very least, I can at least validate her feelings and give her credit that, even in her emotional state, Desiree is able to recognize the difference between displeasure and “a severe hatred for Kyron”.
I know how it feels to have my feelings minimized or dismissed, and I don’t want to do that to someone else, particularly someone else in Desiree’s situation. How insulting for Desiree to be going thru all of this and then have some imply that the “severe hatred” is all in her head, or that she’s just not in clear enough mind to recognize the tone and know “severe hatred” when it’s written. It makes me angry for Desiree just to read these statements.
Desiree, if you read here, I hope you know that many of us respect you and are amazed by your strength, wish we could help, and we support you fully and we believe that even in this horrible time, you know what you read and would not exaggerate it or misinterpret it. I believe you that TH wrote about a “severe hatred for Kyron” and I believe that even in this awful, awful time, you’ve behaved with dignity and grace, and strength I could only hope to muster. My prayers are with all of Kyron’s family who loved him, but especially you today.
Blink,
We’ve all inquired about Elsy and two children, yet we’ve never seen a reply from you that says they’re even related to RS or ASS. Can you give us a hint, warm, cold, hot?
I finally was able to watch KH’s presser from Monday in it’s entirety. It is so frustrating that you cannot understand/hear the questions from the media at all. Time and again this is a huge problem, I wish the media would get their shit together with their audio because it sucks every single time.
At any rate, here is my take: I see a very angry, hurting, frustrated man that is doing everything he can to find his son, keep the story out there through the media, and ask for help from everyone. I do not feel he is being deceitful here. I see a very raw pain in his eyes, yet he is being strong and fighting to find his child. I will not judge him, I have not been in his shoes and hope I never am. I can honestly say that in the same circumstances I don’t see myself holding up nearly as well as KH and DY. Yes, there were problems in his marriage, it was not perfect, so what. Who among us is perfect and without problems? The last perfect person to walk this earth was crucified on the cross. I absolutely DO NOT believe he had anything to do with Ky’s disappearance, he was blindsided. Who could even imagine it in their worst nightmare? I have complete empathy for him. I’m sure he would give his life right here and now to save his son.
I feel like a jerk for my comment about his hair, I was trying to lighten the mood a bit but it was in poor taste. Shame on me.
Love and prayers to Kyron and all that love him.