Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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Puzzled,
Do you want to elaborate on anything that you take from Blink’s statement? Meaning, anyone in mind?
=============================
July 3, 2010 at 3:22 am
I believe that there is someone in Terri’s life, and possibly Kaine’s that has knowledge of where Kyron is. B
@Zeus: I think there may be two levels at play here with Kaine, what he knows in his head, and what he may feel in his heart. Perhaps he’s come to know intellectually, through the help of his therapist who knows many details about KH & TH, that he could not have predicted what TH would do, and if he is dealing with a sociopath in TH, no one who hasn’t dealt with it up close and personal can truly understand the deception and secret lives. (JMO, but I lived it, and I do know that what he is describing about not knowing is possible–it’s possible to know something is wrong, but possible not to know how deeply it goes, and what the other person is truly made of and not made of) So KH may really have come to understand on an intellectual level that he isn’t responsible. In KHs heart, I’m going to bet that he still feels incredible guilt, and that would explain why he looks like a shell of a person, heartbroken and devastated. Maybe that’s just me feeling empathetic towards another human who is in incredible pain and fears the worst for his son.
I think it is so easy to pick apart all that KH is saying right now. Wish that TH were talking, and then we could analyze her every word, and perhaps know more about where poor Kyron is, but that’s just me. Unfortunately, we don’t have that luxury, because TH isn’t saying a word so that she can save her own ass.
And no, I’m not Team Kaine, I’m only Team Kyron. I will admit, however, that I see no reason to kick this man while he’s down, since I have an impossible time believing that LE would still be looping him in so closely to the investigation if they had one bit of concern about him.
@Graceinthehills: Excellent response re: the anger/control issues.
I’m puzzled. The Dateline Kyron update at the end seemed to imply that there was possibly no evidence against Terry and that although she has showed poor judgement she may not be the perpetrator. Seems like the next day LE has DY and KH in to show them the emails and once again there is a national effort to convict Terry Horman in national press. And it looks like from the divorce proceedings that KH is using the divorce to put Terry on trial for whatever has happened to our poor Kyron. Seems like LE is directing this as they do not have enough evidence to go to trial but still consider TH the perpetrator. Wonder also if the Drs appt has ever been confirmed?
@ Beejay,,
Lmao, yip that is exactly why I asked you
for your thoughts. Had already visited this site
. Thank you for your comment though.
*******************************
36.beejay says:
November 19, 2010 at 10:36 am
@Kimberly says:
November 18, 2010 at 11:05 pm
______________
IDK yet. Go 2:
http://truecrimes.50.forumer.com/a/work-thread-selim-masic-janitor-quit-at-school_post4779.html
27.melissab says:
November 19, 2010 at 9:48 am
Lazy, Ode and others…I am so sorry for what you had to go through
***
Melissab, I was completely and totally loved. I had a wonderful childhood minus a few snags. My mom was kinda like the girl that when she was good she WAS very very good but when she was drunk she was horrid to be around. There were Years between slips, but woaaaa when the happened it a was a 100 miles an hour. I have never met a kinder woman than my mother. Thus it was complicated. She was in AA for years and sponsored many. Then we would slip. It was depression that triggered it. I have been successfully treated for depression for many years. She was finally correctly treated for the depression following her diagnosis with Lung Cancer. She did not take a drink following that. I could not believe it. She knew she was going to die yet she handled it and did not drink. Go figure, thank you for Prozac. No joke.
Another interview with Kaine was shown today (besides the ABC/Good Morning America)
From CBS/Morning Show is this one …
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7070091n#ixzz15js8qnj8
At the end of this interview, Kaine speaks directly to Kyron and says …
“Home is safe. It is just Kiara and me. We’re waiting for you.”
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beejay says:
November 19, 2010 at 10:36 am
@Kimberly says:
November 18, 2010 at 11:05 pm
______________
IDK yet. Go 2:
http://truecrimes.50.forumer.com/a/work-thread-selim-masic-janitor-quit-at-school_post4779.html
@beejay and Kimberly.
I’m also trying to follow the Skyline groundskeeper + the janitor(masic).
The potential that either of them could have had an association/connection with RS seems entirely possible.
Your info about the janitor NOT returning to the school is appreciated.
Trying to keep them all straight – is it true that the GrKeeper also did not return to the school?
If I have this correct the GrKeeper would have been a Portland City employee – so his name wouldn’t show up as returning or not on the Skyline School roster.
Is that correct??
Thx!
Asume Kyron was one of the children in the yard looking at plants with “adult male.” Frogs could have likely been in the discussion, with Kyron mentioning his science fair project. “Adult male” offers to drive Kyron down to Sauvies Island to get some frogs to bring back to school for science fair. Maybe Kyron even had Terri’s permission to leave with this guy who has some kind of relationship with RS/school? So that would mean the whole science fair topic could have been set up in advance, with Terri knowing somehow “adult male” would offer to take Kyron to the Island “real quick” to get some frogs. How Terri would be “blindsided” in this scenario I don’t know, but it would be a way for Kyron to leave willingly. Just an idea to throw out there, Kyron left with permission from Terri?
Did anyone see Kaine’s apperance on GMA this morning? He said it didnt hurt him when ppl blamed him for Kyron going missing, and that he told the interveiwer 4 months ago, that he blamed himself. I feel so bad for KH/DY. Their lives have fallen apart and it took less than 4 hrs to make it happen. He solely blames himself for,I believe, bringing her in, and not seeing what was going on sooner,or if he did indeed see, not doing anything about it until it was to late. he said he had not seen DY for a couple wks, but all that was going to change with the holidays coming up. I am going to try ot find it on the net, and watch it again. I cried a little watching him this morning, and those chills always come, no creepy chills, just IDK how to explain them, I always get chills when he and DY talk about their baby son.
Here is what I have to say about child abuse and what Blink had to say about abusers.
My mother was incredibly abusive to me — especially psychologicly, verbally, and emotionally. No physical blow could equal that kind of damage. NO AMOUNT OF THERAPY would change her. Furthermore, you can’t make someone get therapy either.
I was much older when I finally sought help to tried to understand my mother and why she would do the things she did to me. While it was enlightening, it was one painful experience. The counselor told me — point blank — “Do NOT go down the bargain isle when you are actually looking for gourmet food.” SHE CAN’T / WON’T be any different. I was actually told it was in my best interest never to engage with her ever again. And I have not.
Tell me about the pain in recognizing that she is the way she is and that NO THERAPY would change that.
@Krowdkat – Good point all around. Is the missing employee from the school somehow related to Elsy?
Blink-Thank you for your support in forbidding me to attend family reunions. My family just had one in July when they found out my aunt was not going to be around long. They have a beautiful home with a pool and we had piles of fun there as kids… I am not even on the invite list anymore to these events. It’s hard, believe me, because nothing is black/white. There are certainly fine qualities in many of my family members and we are a dynamic, fun, charming, attractive, charismatic bunch, which I think, unfortunately, contributes to the continued denial by our clan (like the confusion people have with TH). I have my one recovering niece and her 3 children in my life…we are sort of the loners now, but we are WELL. I hope others will eventually join us, but they may not, and probably won’t, but both of us know peace now know there is a higher calling here. I miss my family immensely, but I love them too much to tolerate the BS anymore and I will NOT put my precious son thru that crap anymore. Come on, he wants to be a space researcher..no room for mental garbage in that! Blink, thanks for the support, again, especially as we ramp into the holidays and I am reminded it has been 2 years since I have seen or spoken to most of my family. I miss my mom a lot.
Idahogal said:
- realized being proud of my sobriety and sharing my experience will just get me labeled in a negative way with a lot of folks
I’m whipped in more ways than one. I’m going back to lurking for awhile. Good luck to all. Love and prayers for Kyron and his family.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Once again, I can only hope that you saw my apology. I appreciated your redirection with regards to casting a broad net, and I should have stated from git go that my point of view was based on personal experience. I really do feel for Kaine having lived through some aspects that were similar myself.
I give you nothing but credit for kicking your addiction. It was/is not an easy thing to do, and you have a lot of heart for doing so and staying sober.
That said, this case has taken a lot out of me as well so I understand the need for a time out.
I just hope that it is not because of me, and that if you go, you do not go into lurkdom for too long because I really* have always appreciated your posts and POV.
If LE knows who took Kyron and Terri has pointed them in the direction of RS then what else do they want from Terri? I get the feeling Kaine & Desiree think Terri is directly involved in Kyron’s disappearance but IMO I have been led to believe her actions pryor may have indirectly caused his abduction.
I have though about why LE told KH about the alleged MFH plot.
The evidence of the plot is quite shaky, in an earlier blink article it was stated that the detectives found TH more credible than the LS, but, since KH and Kiara were in the house with TH, I believe it was appropriate for LE to let KH know about the allegations, even if not well documented. What LE officer wants to be responsible if something bad had happened to them?
Releasing the “sexts” and later the e-mails would have to have been done for another reason, and I find quite questionable. Because of these leaks, it is very likely that TH will never be tried in the Portland area. The sexts would probably be inadmissable in court anyway since they are quite inflamatory, and do not appear related to Kyron’s disappearance.
The only reason for LE releasing this added information, yes is was indirectly but LE is still responsible for the leaks, is if they are hoping that some unknown sext or e-mail recipient will watch the news and contact them.
If there was any meaningful evidence of a MFH plot, TH would be in the pokey sharing a cell with a snitch wearing a wire right now.
Kimberly says:
November 18, 2010 at 11:05 pm
OHHHHH Beejay darling, lol
wanted to get your take/opinion on the first janitor?
S.Masic! I know we have discussed Mr. Tandy, but I cannot seem to
find any info about Mr. Masic.
The picture with the guy in yellow plaid and the mystery man,
the plaid shirt guy has a resemblence of Mr. Masic’s body structure.
IMO. Wanted to see what you think/thought?
I have some other info on him but will wait for your post
so I don’t once again re-create another wheel.
TIA
————————————————————————
I also tried to find anything about this Masic guy on the internet, Nada
Its almost liked he is living his life off the grid. Salim Masic I even wondered if his name was an anagram of some sort.
I’m still here, just don’t have anything to add. I do trust le when they say our kids aren’t in danger. They haven’t said that to the press in a while, but they did tell us as recently as sept that they still believe this is an isolated incident. Personally I think they know who kyron left with, but they may not be able to prove it in court yet.
@ 22.Ode says:
November 19, 2010 at 8:03 am
“…I can see the possibility that both TH and RS were hated by someone they both scorned. RS got his family out. TH could not.”
______
Ode, first of all, I wish you the best in life. I hope you have peace and happiness.
Secondly, your last statement touched on something for me that I had not considered. I think you have a VERY good point. RS testified for the GJ, and thus received immunity (IIRC?). He participated in the (jacked-up) MFH sting. So, one could say, there is a level of “cooperation” on his part for Kyron’s disappearance. And now, I’m thinking… with the MFH sting, TH now might feel that its all gonna land on her so she goes out and gets the “attorney extraordinare”.
Ode, I think you have a REALLY good point. I hope you elaborate on that some more….
God be with you, Kyron. You are in the hearts of many, always. We love you.
completely off topic
I think it would be really cool to write a “Rear Window” type book about someone who gets too close to the truth on a crime solving blog like this. It would be pure fiction, but it could be very interesting.
@Jackie B
I have never read about sociopaths (sp) because I hate labels
but I think you will get me to give in
I don’t know if I even know one. I do know some people who are
so self centered they can’t relate to anyone else
is that the same
OK I will read up. You got me LOL
Beejay’s “candidate” was featured on the local news last night here in pdx!I was like, “wth” that’s old news! Why did our local media wait until what, a week later to publish this? Lmao,!
Heard it here first!
This place is so interesting we have talked about eyes
and all sorts of subjects trying to locate little Kyron
I like it here
you are a great bunch
I wish we could find Kyron
Hi Idahogal
Blink – One night awhile ago I wrote a rude, impatient, frustrated, a couple of glasses of wine email to you and I am sorry. This should have come sooner. I respect the hell out of you and all the dedicated posters. I’ve read this blog every single day since just about the beginning. (I feel like after the wine comment above I have to add that I don’t drink a lot after all these addiction posts. I’ve had my addictions and kicked them all, cigarettes being the last thank goodness.
On to Kyron – Not sure if this is plausible or if I’ve read this possible scenario: what if Terri did something to Elsy? What if Terri is why she and her kids aren’t around? What if RS did something to Kyron to get back at her for his family not being around? Not sure what the circumstances would be or what she may have done, but maybe something happened there?
@Cbickel
I read your post similar to Melnel
at the time I was thinking maybe we should not
post about Kaine
but I do not roll and scroll your posts
FWIW – I hadn’t read or heard much about the groundskeeper.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5763422/kyron_horman_who_is_the_groundskeeper_pg2.html?cat=34
I just saw Kaine say he is putting out posters in the mall today
and some cute pics of Kiara
Good news that he is active. I feel he will be OK. Or as OK as anyone
could be
Prayers for finding Kyron and Prayers for Kaine’s search
I know my posts are “off the wall”. All the way through school the only big talent/skill I had (when taking the required state skill/measuremant tests) was abstract thinking. I felt cheated by this, I would rather have had a skill which was useful like art, writing, music, athletics, anything but a seemingly useless skill like abstract thinking. Half the time people don’t even understand my thoughts on a given subject anyway. My way of thinking was useful in the IT world, but since I retired I have tried
sewing
painting
quilting
cooking
I find I am not any good at any of these things.
I got sick of TV
so now i blog on this site.
I would just like to thank everyone here for putting up with my weird ideas about stuff. You are all great people here, and I feel privileged to be able to join in your conversations.
OK, so now back to sleuthing.
I have to throw in my two cents in regards to seeing the whites of a persons eyes. In my experience (many years working in the criminal justice system) those with eyes like that were the very violent offenders. The worst of the worst. I guess you could consider them to be the sociopaths of the institutions. Also noted was the fact that they died very violent deaths. If I ever followed a parolee with a violent history, and they died either on the outside of prison or on the inside, their death was very violent. Just saying….
puzzled says:
November 19, 2010 at 10:32 am
@Mother Hen
still paying attention?
July 3, 2010 at 3:22 am
I believe that there is someone in Terri’s life, and possibly Kaine’s that has knowledge of where Kyron is. B
____________________
The “friend” KH mentioned?
KH stated that TH told KH and friend the exact same story about James moving out. she told two people the same thing is not a great way to prove master of Deception
Does anyone recall if KH ever said why James moved out? I know he said that he was the one intervening in the disagreements between son and mother. But did he ever say the reason was?
I have pondering that the perp may have an unhealthy interest in KH. And by releasing the e-mails and text by TH is a way to say to the perp..you are right, she doesn’t deserve KH, she is bad mother to Kyron, now we see you were right all a long no one blames you for taking Kyron we now see that you were protecting him from HER
The perp wasn’t expecting the Closeness of DY and KH so now they are showing separation to the perp. And the e-mails of KH by TH making her aware that KH isn’t all so wonderful trying to break the infatuation. IDK just a thought
A continuation from my child abuse comments:
It has been 6 years since I followed the direction of that counselor. Despite the refusal of my mother to get therapy and my refusal to engage with her, she still continues to try and contact me through family members and despite my calling police to inform her to stay away from me.
She misses putting her claws into me.
puzzled says:
November 19, 2010 at 10:22 am
but they didn’t indict her … so what else were they charged with?
________________________________________________________________
Yet, right?…IDK, can they have more than one charge?
puzzled says:
November 19, 2010 at 10:24 am
maybe if LE knew then what they know now, they would have done something different.
________________________________________________________________
Puzzled, I know you and I and some others can explore theories without, for lack of a better term, freaking out on eachother. Is the working theory that KH and TH are involved together, hence the truck and mustang speeding around SI? or is it that he is framing her? I am open to anything that gets us to the truth, I just have a hard time finding his motivation in all of this.
I am looking at what LE wants us to see. There was a united front between KH and DY. By dividing Ky’s bio-parents, possibly they are evoking a response in someone else, or are we seeing just the sad facts playing out between two parents filled at this moment with anger and regret?
OT/ Regarding adult abusive relationships that you have so eloquently touched on. I cared for a family member that went through this and the courts seem to place part of the blame on the “victim”. There is a sick dynamic on the part of the abused, who is charged with enabling the behavior, much like co-dependants of substance abuse. I heard a judge say to my female family member, “If you were going to sleep with the devil, what did you expect to have happen?” IMO so many minds need to be changed. It’s like blaming the rape victim for their choice in clothes. (sigh)
CAN someone please check out “GUNGA DAVE”….My p.c. locks up.
Dave Stenson….I thought of him during his first interview. Where is he now, connection to TH, plays Electric gitar…MOO….
@GinaG says:
November 19, 2010 at 12:14 pm
“Wonder also if the Drs appt has ever been confirmed?”
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Frankly, I’ve never understood why confirmation that the doctor’s appointment existed would exonerate TH. Even if she orchestrated the whole thing single-handedly, she easily could have made the appointment knowing all along that it wouldn’t be kept.
It doesn’t take much to ring up your doctor’s office and make an appointment. It would certainly be a way of helping cover her bases, if she were concerned about alibi. And, it does seem like she was, having kept her Starbucks receipt from the first Fred Meyer. Seriously, who even GETS a receipt from Starbucks (by default you don’t), never mind holding onto it?
@zeus and @JackieBauer, I find myself agreeing with both of you. While I reacted as Zeus did to Kaine’s latest snippets (frankly, I wish he’d just stop talking about everything not directly related to finding Kyron), I suppose I also understand JackieBauer’s point about therapy. Having been fortunate enough to have a great therapist myself for some years, I understand that it is easy to begin speaking ‘couch-talk’ after intense sessions. Maybe KH has been instructed to ingrain said line of thinking into his head so often that he is now verbalizing it. I’m just of the opinion that a good PR manager would advise him to keep such thoughts to himself, as those trains of thought don’t necessarily play out well as sound bites. Just my $.02.
Now, where is Kyron?
FYI TO LOCALS: KGW in Portland will re-air Dateline on Kyron Sat. Nov. 20th @ 9 pm. They sent me an email because I pitched a fit at them several times, lol.
Prayers for Kyron today. My own son turned 8 today and I have thought about Kyron all day. So sad that he missed his own 8th birthday. Love and prayers for the little guy. Love you Kyron. Please lets find him and bring him home. NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
Child Abuse — Continuation Part II –
Forgot to mention that my mother is highly educated and was the CFO of a lucrative organization.
First, abuse, knows no social or economic boundary. It can be hidden as the abused feel responsible. That is usually part of the abuse. Back to Kyron. I agree with all of the above persons being suspect, in aiding and abetting a premeditated abduction, and a few others I think would be very shocking and can not even bring myself to write my theory. In fact it wil stun my regardless of who is responsible for harming this innocent, adorable little angel. We have to go to motive as to the “WHY” someone would assist in something so sinister and evil. One reason could be to covering for someone they love. Love is a huge motivation IMO. In addition greed could be another motivating factor. The sexual motive is strong, as well. All these theories, in my mind however, include different people for each motive. So confusing. and implausible to me that I can think this of other human beings after hearing such unsavoriness. We are only hearing about these people on the net. Of all the people I suspect, and it seems like a of of us are on the same page, I see no credible person coming forward to vouch for any their characters. So odd. Is the whole state of Oregon muzzled . Strange. Really. IMO, of corse.
@Malty- Okay, you got me. I love you so much I could cry! And I love me some dogs…have 3, wish I had a dozen. Crazy nuts for the pooches! They also make for the best alarm system ever.
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@beejay & kimberly- Looks like Mr. Malic could very well have an association with RS or associates based on names at certain addresses. Maybe he is related through marriage or something? IDK but definitely a road worth traveling. You two could probably sleuth your way into the pentagon, my oh my.
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@Krowdkat and Kitjcat(sp)- Excellent thoughts and posts, keep them coming!
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@MotherHen- I could tell you about a lot of pain, but you would probably want to debate me on it, so I won’t, lol. Obviously you are not repeating the cycle, that is good! I will give you a nugget of wisdom here that I have learned, woman to woman, mom to mom, friend to friend: Having the last word does not win friends or influence people. Just be your own beautiful, smart, confident self and appreciate the wisdom and experiences of others for what it is. XO
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GraceintheHills says:
November 19, 2010 at 12:06 am
@Grace- Excellent information and post, thank you.
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enumclawrose says:
November 19, 2010 at 6:30 am
Hi Erose, glad you are powered up and back, thanks for the kind words. I have given Kristian Horman lots of thought over the months. He was not in jail on June 4th. I’ve come up with scenarios for him ten ways to Sunday, however I trust that when LE said he was investigated it meant fully vetted, at least I hope so. I cannot imagine they wouldn’t, can you? Now I have not looked much at other family in Seattle area at all, but I did see several cards and letters at the Wall of Hope from his grandparents up there and IMO they are devastated.
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@cbickel- I always, always read your posts, don’t ever go away!
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I’m laughing because I am not the only one going back to the beginning and reading all the old stuff from day one. It is fascinating, Blink should print the whole think as a book. Huge shout out to everyone here, wish I could write to each person but Blink would have seizure onset! Many of us are damaged but damned if we will be broken. LOVE AND THANKS TO ALL! XXOO
Idahogal: My hat is off to you for pitching a fit! Now if we could get them to do more investigative journalism in this case. I know I can’t expect Woodward and Bernstein on the case, but how about knocking on the doors of some key players, ie. TH, RS, DD, MC, etc. Is life just status quo with them now? I want to know how they spend their days while Kyron is still missing. I am normally not one for Paparazzi journalism, but I am desperate for some info.
Example of my desperation: today I was in Albertson’s (yes that Albertson’s store) and I finally got up the courage to ask the checker if it was true that TH was seen on surveillance cameras on June, 4th. She looked at me like I was crazy and just mumbled something intelligible and kept checking. Never got the answer, but I will not stop asking the questions until OUR boy is found.
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Idahogal says:
November 19, 2010 at 4:46 pm
FYI TO LOCALS: KGW in Portland will re-air Dateline on Kyron Sat. Nov. 20th @ 9 pm. They sent me an email because I pitched a fit at them several times, lol.
Stars says:
November 19, 2010 at 9:45 am
If the person who took Kyron is not SM, RS, ASS, why aren’t the Skyline
parents nervous about a predator ? What do they know that we do not?
How can they feel their children are safe? Did LE tell them they have the
perp in custody? LE must have told the parents something that made them
feel like their children are safe at Skyline School.
Also, where is Skyline Parent? I miss your input!!
Skyline parent says:
November 19, 2010 at 1:18 pm
I’m still here, just don’t have anything to add. I do trust le when they say our kids aren’t in danger. They haven’t said that to the press in a while, but they did tell us as recently as sept that they still believe this is an isolated incident. Personally I think they know who kyron left with, but they may not be able to prove it in court yet.
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Thank you so much Skyline parent…
I am comforted knowing y’all are safe per LE.
@Jen: that’s where I got my “therapy” points too. Therapy. It’s helpful, no doubt, but what I know in my head doesn’t always make it to the heart, and vice versa
@Malty: sociopaths (sometimes called psychopaths, more current term is anti-social personality disorder) aren’t easily identified ax-wielding homicidal maniacs, although some, not all, certainly do murder. Many function in respected areas of society, and it’s only when you really pay attention, get close, lift the veil that you truly see. And even then some people are fooled. Also, though they don’t feel emotions like we do, they learn to mimic them, but some are much harder to mimic than others, and some people are fooled more than others. Also, some sociopaths are smarter than others, and as a result, can just do a better job of effing with you
Anyone who’s watched Lie To Me knows that some of us pick up on facial clues faster and some misread them completely. Some people don’t pay attention to the minutia and fail to catch the discrepancies and uncover the lies.
Anyway, there’s are tell-tale traits, and while lots of people can be compulsive liars, and lack remorse and fail to conform to norms, etc., once a person is hitting most of the behaviors, well, then it’s more likely than not… I did a list re: what we know about TH, or think we know, and it was convincing enough to me. I can’t say with certainty that she is a sociopath, but I can say that if she is, and there are indications she sure as hell might be, then I can see how Kaine was so totally fooled.
I am a normal person–no string of divorces, no addictions, responsible job that requires confidentiality, I do animal rescue and volunteer for good causes, I’ve never even gotten a speeding ticket–and I honestly never thought a sociopath could happen to me, didn’t even really know what they were or what to look for. And my sociopath was perfect on the surface, but thankfully, I figured it out much more quickly than the other women involved (one had lived with him for FOUR YEARS and knew nothing about me) and I was able to warn them and get myself out safely, leaving a fake trail to my new location and just dropping out for awhile (long story, I was safe and fine, just needed to be careful, and I’m very lucky that I have great friends and family). He found another woman to take care of him with her money and stuff, get him a new name, and give him a place to hide from the people who might want to find him, and it’s been half a decade and she still hasn’t figured him out. She will, but I am afraid by then, it will be too late. Still, there’s nothing I can do to help her. And until she starts to see things for herself, she wouldn’t believe me anyway.
30.DEB1948 says:
November 19, 2010 at 4:28 pm
CAN someone please check out “GUNGA DAVE”….My p.c. locks up.
Dave Stenson….I thought of him during his first interview. Where is he now, connection to TH, plays Electric gitar…MOO….
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Deb, A thread or two back , several of us
discussed him and linked all the information we
all gathered, including myself, .
I’m sure you’ll find it worth reading.
33.Idahogal says:
November 19, 2010 at 4:46 pm
FYI TO LOCALS: KGW in Portland will re-air Dateline on Kyron Sat. Nov. 20th @ 9 pm. They sent me an email because I pitched a fit at them several times, lol.
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YAYYYYYY! and thank you very much.
It’s nice to see you today!:)
Oh heck, havent read all this page, but see Masic’s name. Posted my research on this early in june on another site.
My take, based on my own school’s maintenance men’s journeys in and out of or schools and why (bum principals or pta leaders they wished to escape, was
1) he most likely got a transfer out to his new el ed at his own request, unusually in spring, rather than the more usual between school years, because Jill I, with her green vision, as a pta mom, made his workload untenably burdensome compared to any other local el ed job. ( see her praise of his extra heavy workload codified in a newsletter with his picture re burdensome work duties she and Skyline laid on him);
or, 2) the principal transferred him out in spring to another school to solve a problem, reason unknown
i go with no. 1; he was brought back to share workload after K disappeatec
@cd-
I have never thought you are weird and I always appreciate your posts. I love your book idea and you should do it, if that is something you would enjoy working on. Sleuth on, my friend!
I gotta tell y’all….the maintenance guy mowing the lawn is intriguing. When he first flashed across whatever video I clicked on, some sort of news report, I remember making a quick comparison to that Kansas guy that was a city worker.
My brain cells flee faster than my hair but it was big national news. Church guy no one suspected…..one of those things that make ya go….hmmmm.
Wish I had the knowledge and patience to actually sleuth like the grown ups here but I remain your biggest groupie. Sleuth on and leave no stone unturned…:)
Whites of eyes? Think thyroid disease. Spent6 years working inpatient at Federal mental hosp– Hinkley’s). No DSM dx had “whites of eyes”; no psychiatrist or nurse mentioned whites of eyes in any chart notation/ assessment mentally ill without hallucinations or delusions, Think expressive/receptive language skiils as a key, don’t think whites of eyes. unless Terri worked at Bottoms or morefar flung outliers (porn or more), even 3 marriages & one DUI dont make her a Borderline, much less a Sociopath. Sorry, I’ve known them in my jobs; she ain’t it. Lots of manipulative moms in PTA America, neighborhoods, in corporate life–doesn’t interfere w/social functioning–just irritates husbands/girlfriends–not a mental illness
Idahogal- Thanks for giving KGW the heat to to re-air the program on Kryon.
@Stars- I too have inquired as to where Skyline Parent went. It makes me uneasy to think someone or a Skyline group made him/her quit posting. It is if they had something to hide. I hope Skyline is okay.
In fact all the recent comments have made me feel very uneasy about the Skyline School. The fact that the school was too lazy to make phone calls to parents of absent students makes me think they thought their school was better than the rest and it wouldn’t happen there. If they left side doors unlocked that would be another sign of their reality safety check. They didn’t do their best to protect the students. If I were a parent of students there I would withdraw them. Something is too hinky there. It has always bothered me he disappeared from a school setting. Not on my watch. This NEVER should have happened at any school.
I certainly don’t intend to offend but all the recent personal story sharing here has distracted from the Kyron story. I know talking about personal stories is healing but to me it doesn’t feel at all appropriate here or related to the purpose of this site. I am tired of trying to find the substance here with so much being off topic. I feel like I am missing something. I don’t have a sad story I want to share. Apologies to anyone I may offend. That is not my intention.
In my mind almost from the beginning it seemed that LE was running “the show.” MOO, they felt Desiree and Kaine shouldn’t say anything. Then when it fit their purpose they had them talk to the public. They gave them information only when it served their purposes. They decided to give Kaine the MFH and texting information to Kaine to split TH and him up in hopes of further progress in the case. I wonder where the idea to start the divorce came from so soon in this case? It seems like an odd thing to do when a little boy is missing. It has distracted from finding Kyron.
It feels like they deliberately put the events in action this last week with sharing Terri’s emails. They must have had them all along. Did LE share them to get the parents to react and possibly turn against each other?? I think releasing information and getting the parents to react to it is playing the parents. I for one would deeply resent it. As a community member I resent it.
LE should be more up front and come clean with information they know is correct and won’t hurt their case and give it to the public so all the rumors don’t run rampant.
Bottom line I want to know is who the third person is. If, according to Blink, neither Terri or Rudy took him from the school who is the likely candidate? Was Kyron the intended target?
49.krowdkat says:
November 19, 2010 at 11:50 am
Hi krowdkat, me again. We are on the same train here with Elsy, RS and the whole kaboodle.
Blink keeps saying look at the landscapers, so…
TH’s 911 call in May that brought a whole load of LE crapola to RS’s house. Who was living there? What were they doing there? What did LE find there? Whom may have gotten really pizzed off at TH for that one phone call and the trouble it caused? We know that RS, AS-S and Elsy are all illegals. How many more are/were there? IMHO this absolutely could be the catalyst for Elsy and the kids taking off and God knows what else.
I have to go down this road again and beat the brush. Anybody wanna’ come along?
9.Kozyotb says:
November 19, 2010 at 12:41 pm
@Krowdkat – Good point all around. Is the missing employee from the school somehow related to Elsy?
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I don’t see any other direction that hasn’t been explored by BOC et. al…