Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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15.Skyline parent says:
November 19, 2010 at 1:18 pm
I’m still here, just don’t have anything to add. I do trust le when they say our kids aren’t in danger. They haven’t said that to the press in a while, but they did tell us as recently as sept that they still believe this is an isolated incident. Personally I think they know who kyron left with, but they may not be able to prove it in court yet.
~~~~~~~~~
Thank you, Skyline P. Your first hand experience and knowledge comfort me and give me hope for resolution in Ky’s disappearance.
While remembering Kyron today, let us also try and remember all the many children who will never have the oppotunity of wide-spread attention / help. There are so many.
Like Beejay said recently, the effort to help Kyron will hopefully help many other children as well.
I know everyone knows this — but reminders of the others from time to time is good too.
Thank you.
@Idahogal
OH Thanks now I can see it I don’t work
thanks alot
and HI Again
#25@cd
I am very off the wall but it takes a few off the wall ideas to
get things going
I just be myself keep being you
and let’s find Kyron
Becca says:
November 19, 2010 at 1:57 pm
On to Kyron – Not sure if this is plausible or if I’ve read this possible scenario: what if Terri did something to Elsy? What if Terri is why she and her kids aren’t around? What if RS did something to Kyron to get back at her for his family not being around? Not sure what the circumstances would be or what she may have done, but maybe something happened there?
_________________________________________________________________
I don’t think this has been presented. Something to definately think about.
Off topic
it is going snow. Yipeeeeeeeee. Snow in Portland Oregon
Welcome Back, Idahogal!
6.sweetnessnlite says:
November 18, 2010 at 6:27 pm
… IMO, theoretically, if harm did come to Kyron, this harm may not have been inflicted until after it was determined by whomever that there would be not be a call from the school, in regard to his absence.
@sweetness: Very good point you raise. It would explain why Terri seemed to be mission-less until 10:00 am going from store to store, and why she was so calm when talking with Angela Leckey… her goal at that point may simply have been to ensure the school was not going to be looking for him. Then the next steps were taken.
If your hunch is correct, it’s even more likely Terri never meant for Kyron to come home as she was ensuring they had the full day to do what needed to be done, not necessarily herself personally but the entire group of people involved.
*************
15.zeus says:
November 19, 2010 at 3:37 am
http://www.katu.com/news/local/109138704.html
But as a curious thought-I wonder how everyone feels reading or listening to what Kaine said. If he himself feels clear of any responsibility in Kyron’s disappearance-do you all feel better that he is being honest and putting it out there? Or do you think he is not telling the truth for some reason?:
@Zeus: My hope is that Kaine is a man who lives largely in denial, even of his own emotions. The alternative is just too sad. The patience he exhibits with regards to the loss of his son is incredible.
Enablers do live greatly in denial, so that would fit with what we know. I certainly hope for him and his child that he stays in therapy and delves into those emotions he’s so uncomfortable with.
*************
@Ode and Lazydog: You have nothing to apologize for Lazydog. I honor the strength of both of you. I too suffered a highly dysfunctional childhood and speak from experience. I cherish the little girl within me who was lonely and afraid but who never doubted God was always with her, so when I speak out for children, I also speak out for myself, and others like yourselves.
I never had to look in the dark eyes of my father or duck dishes thrown by my mama, but neglect and toxic dysfunction are a whole ‘nother form of abuse, it prevents an individual from blossoming into their full potential, prevents them from knowing how to be happy.
Thank goodness for those talks with God.
I have a dear little 8 year old grandson and we love him dearly. I used to look at him with love and a smile. Now I look at him and think of how Kyron would be looking.
My grandson has a big dimple and two front teeth that are a bit beaverish..a little too big for his body. lol. He has a sense of humor and makes us smile with his jokes. He plays soccer and he loves Ice Cream.
The folks in Kyrons life really let him down. Now we have everybody pointing a finger at everybody else. But Kyron is still gone.
God Bless that little boy. I have little hope he will be found alive but there is always that possibility. Sometimes……
A few notes on sociopaths here from my years in psychology. I was particularly interested in this as my nephew was diagnosed as one. His first therapist was a child psychiatrist in Atlanta. They could see it coming when he was merely 4 yrs old and they weren’t mistaken. It developed predictably over his childhood and into young adulthood. Early fascination with fire, progressively worse cruelty to animals, sexual perversions that also manifested at the expense of a sister and his own mother. While my family cringed and prayed he would not be another Ted Bundy, it looks as though he is savvy enough to mostly stay out of trouble by refraining from committing such heinous acts.
He is very bright and capable in many positive ways. He entered the military and his career skyrocketed him to a very cushy job as an air/sea rescue helicopter pilot. He emailed me daily from his aircraft carrier in the Gulf as he went out on classified missions with special forces and stated he had never been more elated or excited than when he had his machine-gun aimed at The Enemy. It was disturbing to me. Someone like that does well in the military when they can sublimate their antisocial impulses into what appears to be heroism.
As a child, he could conquer action-packed video games in a day that would take most people weeks or months to master. Killing people in the military was like a real-life video game and the stakes (the lives of others) didn’t seem to impact him emotionally. Mowing down The Enemy wouldn’t have been anymore meaningful than squashing those pixelated enemies in his games.
I use him as an example of a sociopath because he seems to defy the general image of one. The Ted Bundys and the Jeffrey Dahmers are more atypical. Most sociopaths do not ultimately annihilate others in their path, mostly because it would cost them too dearly. They tend not to be stupid and can hone their interpersonal skills to levels of charming and engaging. It assists them in getting what they want. That’s all that really matters. They want to get what they want. They are not immoral, they are AMORAL. This is a critical distinction. They don’t engage in behaviors because they are immoral; if doing something they want to do happens to be very moral, they’ll do that too. In being amoral, they simply do what they must to get what they want and don’t lose any sleep over it if it happens to be immoral or unethical.
If they are intelligent and savvy, they realize there are acts which would ultimately destroy their lives so they don’t commit them. Ted Bundy was a sociopath, but also had a compulsion to destroy others. This is psychotic and sociopathic. We used to use the term psychopath, but sociopaths are not necessarily psychotic, they are simply amoral and do whatever it takes to get their way. If it is too potentially destructive to their greater good, they won’t because, above all else, they are self-serving and self-centered. I think my nephew might “off” someone if he could get away with it and they crossed him the “wrong” way. But, for the most part, he doesn’t want to call negative attention to himself.
I believe we could accurately classify TH as a sociopath. Despising a young child or plotting MFH is not the act of a caring, compassionate, empathetic person. Whether or not she crossed into psychosis remains to be seen. The disappearance of that sweet little boy doesn’t bode well for her, but since LE is keeping most everything close to the vest, it’s impossible to know. Roid rage and substance abuse could certainly take a sociopath to a lower level. I think it’s safe to throw a little narcissism into the mix with the preoccupation with body image and her “Girls Gone Wild” approach to sexuality. Her internet preoccupation is most certainly consistent with her other addictive behaviors.
I’m amazed at how much empathy she has elicited on this forum, but MOO is that it comes from a compassionate and caring group who fortunately can’t see the world from her sociopathic perspective.
I found this comment by Kaine in a transcript of his interview today a bit…er…astonishing and not in a good way.
Discussing the idea that some people considered his claims about TH in his custody case as “mudslinging,” he disagreed with that assessment. But then he said:
“Even the judge has stated that this is all about finding Kyron and bringing him home,” Kaine said, “and there should be nothing that prevents that or deters from that. This is definitely not deterring from it one bit.”
A Family court judge who is not reading court documents about Kyron’s custody, but Kiara’a custody, is stating that “this is all about finding Kyron?”
?????????????????????????????????
Which judge was Kaine talking about??? If he was trying to credit that statement/opinion to the judge overseeing Kiara’s future, I can’t believe this. That judge would not be making a visitation decision a podium for a police investigation to find Kyron.
You cannot sue a man for driving his car into your house and then make that lawsuit all about another car down the street and the investigation into who slashed the other car’s tires.
Kiara’s custody, Kyron’s disappearance — two different things, one criminal and one civil.
I’m wondering — who’s guiding Kaine on his public statements, or is someone wanting him to just blurt out anything…on purpose?
Is Kaine being used to flush someone out, by some pretty outrageous statements that are factually untrue?
5.Sammy says:
November 19, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Another interview with Kaine was shown today (besides the ABC/Good Morning America)
From CBS/Morning Show is this one …
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7070091n#ixzz15js8qnj8
At the end of this interview, Kaine speaks directly to Kyron and says …
“Home is safe. It is just Kiara and me. We’re waiting for you.”
——————————————————————-
Heartbreaking. I’m starting to find Kaine believable. Can you imagine what he’s going through? Having his faults exposed publically after the loss of Kyron and not knowing where he is or what has become of him? Having one spouse betray you and your ex spouse angry with you, then try and be a healthy daddy to Kiara?
I’m softening toward him and what he is going through. He made his mistakes and he’s owning it. Not by saying so directly, but by continuing to search for his son in spite of the spotlight it puts him under.
Prayers of clarity and resolution for this family. I cannot imagine.
12.Kozyotb says:
November 19, 2010 at 1:01 pm
If LE knows who took Kyron and Terri has pointed them in the direction of RS then what else do they want from Terri? I get the feeling Kaine & Desiree think Terri is directly involved in Kyron’s disappearance but IMO I have been led to believe her actions pryor may have indirectly caused his abduction.
~~~~~
Hence her chasing the tail that wags the dog.
Re; Kimberly says:
November 18, 2010 at 10:44 pm
So while I watched this video with the link ccane provided, I had a couple of thoughts!
GK, Dave Stensen said, IIRC something to the effect that he seen a group of a few kids come outside to look at a garden , they were with an adult.
When watching this video, I cannot see the soccer field he was mowing, from the location of the garden, AND, the slope.
To me , it was physically impossible for him to see the garden area!
Thoughts anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUujGloz4eE
———————————————–
Watching the video provided, I do not think that it can be concluded that none of the raised beds can be seen from any vantage point (atop a mower) on the soccer field. You are not taking into consideration that all of the camera angles are toward 4th grade girls and the ground; in other words, the camera angles are downward. Whether or not any of the raised beds are visible from the soccer field is definately verifible. Think LE has not verified it?
In his interview, Dave Stensen did not mention any adults.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html?tab=video
——————————————————-
Re; lyla says:
November 19, 2010 at 11:06 am
Snipped: Let’s add Dave Stenson the groundskeeper.
This is fairly interesting. He saw some children outside looking at the flower bed. Was Ky in that group? Was Stenson the last one to see Ky? Terri arrives at school at 8:15 and leaves at 8:45. Stenson arrives at 8:45 and leaves at 9am.
——————————————-
It took Dave Stensen more than 15 minutes to mow the soccer field. I’m aware that I’m picking on a small point however;
It’s upsetting to me when working people who were rightfully on the job at their appointed times and places are dragged into abduction discussions. OK, if we’re gunna sluth that’s going to happen. But, if we’re pointing fingers at folks, please take the time to get the references correct. I don’t think saying “IIRC” is enough when pointing fingers.
If we’re going to attack the statements of people who were at Skyline the morning of June 4th (almost all of whom are innocent) please get more accurate information first. I would not like to see any Kronking in this case.
DEB1948 says:
November 19, 2010 at 4:28 pm
Deb1948, the “Gunga Dave” site locks up my computer too.
Sorry.
Idahogal said:
- “realized being proud of my sobriety and sharing my experience will just get me labeled in a negative way with a lot of folks
I’m whipped in more ways than one. I’m going back to lurking for awhile. Good luck to all. Love and prayers for Kyron and his family.”
You know what Idahogal? You have the balls (can I say balls?) to talk to us about an addiction that you have worked very hard to not only recognize, but overcome. You have let all of us see that to categorize people with addictions, be they alcohol, narcotics or even cigarettes, as manipulative, selfish, arrogant, what-ever, does not fit EVERY addict and that sometimes shit happens to good people….period. (Can I say shit?) Yeah there’s always a reason, and I’m pretty sure you’ve figured out why you are the way you WERE by now, but as adults we can only blame our current behavior on our upbringing for so long before we have to step up and be responsible for our own actions…you’ve done that and how many of us can say the same?
Having said all of that I have to add that addicts do cause pain to those that are closest to them. , I think in order for everyone to heal, that pain has to be reconized, acknowledged, dealt with, apologized for and then everyone needs to move on….or not, not everyone can.
I applaud you Idahogal, not many can do what you have done. You are an awesome poster and even though we don’t always have the same opinion, I’d miss it if you didn’t say what’s on your mind. Labeled? You? I don’t think so!
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
PS…Malty, I love reading your posts, you post exactly what and how you feel and it comes across as such….you ROCK!
DEB1948,
You will likely be able to access the lkink below. You might have already.
A small snip of his bio:
‘David, ‘Gunga Dave’, Stensen started playing bass and guitar south of San Francisco in the early 60′s. In 1965, his band, The Bedouins, signed with Dunhill records and change their name to the Grass Roots. With the Grass Roots, Gunga Dave performed on TV and in concert with other Dunhill artists including the Mamma’s and Papa’s, and Berry Mc Guire. The Grass Roots performed regularly in San Francisco at the Fillmore and Avalon Ballroom, in LA at the Whiskey-a-Go-Go and Trip, and on TV shows including Ed Sullivan and Where The Action Is.”
Only thing weird that stands out to me is the mention of the MaMas and the Papas. The story about McKenzie Phillips alleged story of her father was disturbing — Mick Jagger, etc. Gross.
http://www.theworkingstiffs.com/about_us.php
I’ve just re-read my prior post about Kaine’s comments, and once again…this keeps happening to my poor ol’ head…I am sent back to the September sheriff’s press conference.
Think.
Staton referred to a surprise. WE would be surprised.
What would surprise us in this case? Not Terri Horman. As of July she was being burned at the stake.
What will shock us? KH and DY are coming out with unique statements and not as united front now. They were like glue in the early months.
TY has not been seen at all other than brief statements on Dateline recently.
RS was not even MENTIONED on the Dateline show.
The word “landscaper” did not get time on the Dateline show.
Desiree informed everyone on the Today Show that she had tried to talk to Kaine about changing custody a year before Kyron disappeared. A YEAR. Things take time to plan.
I want Kyron found…I want what everyone else wants. So I don’t care if I come out and say this now and make anyone flip out.
Is LE looking at a parental abduction to prevent a custody change?
Is LE looking at Kaine?
On June 4th, did Kaine arrange to have someone take Kyron, knowing his wife would be “the last person to see him?”
Sorry, folks, if this sounds outrageous, but we were told by a distraught and thoughtful Sheriff to expect to feel “surprised” and to “look back and think.”
For months, Terri Horman has had her head crushed in public.
In cases like this, we often see people coming out of the woodwork to talk about bad things they noticed about a parent/stepparent, long before a crime has been committed.
We haven’t seen too much of that about TH. Nothing outrageous has been said about her (proven) by anyone but Kaine, and I believe in the early months, Desiree was on the wagon with him.
Desiree referred to those presumable awful emails, but why did she only see them last week?
Where did LE get them? Why were they holding them? For how long?
Desiree has stated that the emails TH wrote to her on June 4 were much different in tone and style than the messages TH usually wrote to her. Why?
I don’t care who is guilty. I care that Kyron is found. I murmur my odd Jewish prayers that this happens.
So I am willing to now suspect that LE is not looking at Terri as the suspect, but at Kaine (even on just a hunch — they would, if they’re good at their job, consider a hunch).
Let’s consider this for a moment. LE goes directly to parents first when a child goes missing. They initially cleared KH, DY, TY.
Initially. Remember that lie detector tests are often not admissible. They are not considered absolute proof of anything.
My speculation (from seeing friends in bad relationships): TH lives with KH, and KH is a micromanaging control freak, and TH is a weak, paranoid woman. Yuck.
Relationships like that have the dominant partner (let’s say it’s Kaine) making the weak, selfish, drama queen partner fearful in a specific way: “No matter what I do, it’s never good enough for him!”
The weaker, self-absorbed partner (like a TH) “knows” that no matter what she does, the dominant partner will make her look bad to everyone.
The weaker partner goes outside the relationship to vent. People hear the venting. They think “whining.” Whining is weak, unpleasant. No one likes it. So no one likes TH all that much. In a toxic relationship, folks, the stronger “in control” partner knows how to set up the illusion.
Did Kaine set up a flawlessly executed parental kidnapping, knowing that he had a build-in obnoxious “alcoholic” wife to make it easier for him?
We’re supposed to be SURPRISED.
Blink, I’m gonna leave this to you to print or not. To all, this is NOT marked “private”, the following comment is NOT intended to victimize DY….
I finally watched the Today interview with DY. This is not going to go over well, but I’m gonna ask it anyway….where are her tears?
I hear her voice, I see her eyes blinking, but I see no tears.
OK…before ya’ll jump me I just wanna say that’s the first thing that crossed my mind.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates
Midwest Mom says:
November 19, 2010 at 3:38 pm
KH stated that TH told KH and friend the exact same story about James moving out. she told two people the same thing is not a great way to prove master of Deception
~~~
lol .. are you reading my mind again?
—————————————————–
enumclawrose says:
November 19, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Puzzled, I know you and I and some others can explore theories without, for lack of a better term, freaking out on each other.
~~~
Yes we can … and I really value the sleuthing and hypothesis you present.
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Mother Hen says:
November 19, 2010 at 12:00 pm
not being cryptic … I am thinking about relationships and how they connect.
This is a intelligent crime … not to be confused with dumb luck. It took a high level of intelligence to plan and execute this abduction … not a person who plays “happy farm” at 8:00 am and is inebriated and passed out on the couch 12 hours later at 8:00 pm.
It was planned in advance, calculated for the right moment, and involves more than one person . Based on LE’s initial assessment, this is what KH and DY were led to believe and continue to promote, with TH as their #1 suspect.
However, since August we have learned that LE is looking at the investigation through a different set lens. Blink has said Ky did not leave with TH, RS or DD. LE is looking for a third suspect; they apparently have suspect 1 & 2. I’m thinking … Suspect #1 with motive; suspect #2 to lure/abduct; Suspect #3 to ????
What I am doing is looking at relationships between 1 & 2; do not know who the possibility of #3 could be.
Ok, how can you wish somebody to be by your side one minute, then claim they are the master of deception the next?
I am sooo freakin’ confused.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
DEB1948 says:
November 19, 2010 at 4:28 pm
CAN someone please check out “GUNGA DAVE”….My p.c. locks up.
Dave Stenson….I thought of him during his first interview. Where is he now, connection to TH, plays Electric gitar…MOO….
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Hi Deb. Yes, Dave Stensen is Gunga Dave. Are you saying he has a connection to Terri Horman?
http://www.gungadave.xbuild.com/#
Love reading this forum. I’ve tried to keep track of everything, but one question that I’ve never understood is why no one seems to consider Terri’s older son? The reason I ask this, is because I was the “mom” in a blended family, and the older kids always seemed to be very jealous of the younger ones to the point where it worried me at times. They basically resented that the new parent “loved” the new kids more than them. (Which wasn’t true, but because the younger ones by the nature of being younger needed more attention, I’m sure they felt like it was true.) The fact that Terri’s son was sent away, I think would create a lot of resentment. It would account for a lot – like why Terri isn’t saying anything…so I’m just asking…
Enlighten me….briefly.
OK, I just watched KH’s video and I call bull-shit (can I say bull-shit?) Why does he expect DY to talk to him over the holiday’s if Kyron isn’t there?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/109138704.html?tab=video
That’s it for me tonite, I’ve been dreaming about Kryon for the last few nights, night before last I dreamed in “song”….I love it when that happens, some people think that if you dream “in song” it means that angels are talking to you…I agree.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
“Follow the MONEY”
@Idahogal says:
November 19, 2010 at 4:46 pm
“FYI TO LOCALS: KGW in Portland will re-air Dateline on Kyron Sat. Nov. 20th @ 9 pm. They sent me an email because I pitched a fit at them several times, lol.”
Woohoo, you rock! Thanks!
/de-lurking
@kimberly says:
November 19, 2010 at 1:43 pm
“Beejay’s “candidate” was featured on the local news last night here in pdx!I was like, “wth” that’s old news! Why did our local media wait until what, a week later to publish this? Lmao,!
Heard it here first!”
Wow, thanks.. do you remember which station?
cd says:
November 19, 2010 at 1:43 pm
I think it would be really cool to write a “Rear Window” type book about someone who gets too close to the truth on a crime solving blog like this. It would be pure fiction, but it could be very interesting.
~~~
what a great idea! We could each contribute a chapter outlining our individual theories.
A couple of years ago the Mystery Writers Guild … famous mystery writers … collaborated on a novel, each contributing a chapter advancing the storyline. Was edited by Lee Child, I think.
Also read a who dun it … don’t remember who wrote it, lol … where the main character had a blog and the perp was posting on the blog who his next victim and crime was going to be. Author actually put up a faux blog that was interactive as you read the book.
We could become the “Real” Women’s Murder Club (kinda like the real desperate houswives) who solves cold cases across the country via the internet. lol … better copyright this idea; someone could take it and run with it.
@33.Idahogal says:
November 19, 2010 at 4:46 pm
FYI TO LOCALS: KGW in Portland will re-air Dateline on Kyron Sat. Nov. 20th @ 9 pm. They sent me an email because I pitched a fit at them several times, lol.
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THANK YOU! I missed the first 45 minutes and was so pissed off that the basketball pre-empted something that I really wanted to see. I am not much of a sport fan.
@34.loreli48 says:
November 19, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Prayers for Kyron today. My own son turned 8 today and I have thought about Kyron all day. So sad that he missed his own 8th birthday. Love and prayers for the little guy. Love you Kyron. Please lets find him and bring him home. NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
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It is really hard as a mother of a 7 year old as well who will be 8 in February to realize that there is a little boy in our area that didn’t get to celebrate his 8th birthday with his family and friends. Or even celebrate with his classmates at Skyline with some special bday treats that most parents do at the local schools.
25.cd says:
November 19, 2010 at 3:17 pm
I know my posts are “off the wall”.
**************
Hi CD. I just embrace my inner weirdness. Can you tell?
Reading here is a bit of an addiction because of the intelligence factor (abstract thinking is a high and intuitive form of intelligence, very important to garnering better understanding of any subject) and because Blink has a brilliant way of moderating here. The subtleties she uses are not lost on me.
Based on all what Blink said (and thanks to those who re-posted a lot for quick and easy convenience), I think the Snatcher was someone on RS’ crew. Was there a list of who worked for him somewhere or when he had up the RS website? And this Dude has absconded somewhere then? To me it makes sense, if you are a criminal, do the crime, take off. If you have experience with other criminal activities, like multiple identities and SS #s, you just change everything or go hide out somewhere with contacts way out in the boondocks, abounding in the Western States. Or flee back across the border, overseas, etc. for best safety. MOOO
“Kaine Horman, the father of missing 8-year-old Kyron Horman, said he no longer feels responsible for what happened to his son, he said in an ABC News interview.”
+ comment by the reader FreeRideNOT:
“He no longer feels responsible”
Sorry there, EVERYONE involved with a child is responsible, you, your soon to be x wife, Your x-wife, the school staff etc. are ALL responsible.
Quite frankly I could care less about the family dynamics, who lied, who got drunk etc., the only interest that I and probably most of the rest of us have is………. WHERE IS KYRON.
Thus lets put all the back and forth crap aside and some one step up and tell the authorities what happened to Kyron.
Stop playing the he said she said game, I am more than tired of it.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/109138704.html
WHERE IS KYRON?
JEN says:
November 19, 2010 at 4:44 pm
@zeus and @JackieBauer,
****************************
Thank you so much Jen. I wish I had been as eloquent as you when I tried to explain my thoughts about what Kaine said! I have nothing but sympathy for Kaine and Desiree and their families. I just thought the wording was strange (I’ve never had therapy), and especially that one sentence.
****************
“I’m not going to hold myself hostage for this event that happened to him”
***************
Is there ANY chance that Kaine was trying to send a message to someone with this sentence?
Cbickel says:
November 19, 2010 at 6:46 am
@NelMel….I had suggested something similar to that some time ago. Nobody ever really said anything about it…(I prolly get “scrolled and rolled alot)
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I NEVER scroll and roll past your posts
Cbickel-I always find them very concise and helpful!
GraceintheHills says:
November 19, 2010 at 12:40 am
22.zeus says:
November 18, 2010 at 9:04 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My heart sunk when I first saw those pics of Skyline, too, Zeus. It seemed so remote, so overgrown with grasses/weeds in need of trimming, and seemed to be filled with plenty of places to pull off something like this. Geez…
But, I still struggle with one question. Why take him from a school, especially a school where he was apparently respected and loved by so many. Someone HAD to see something that day, don’t you think?
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That’s what I think too, about someone seeing something! Maybe it was a child who saw the person by TH’s truck that day, and that’s why it’s not being talked about much. That school is beyond remote! And the close up pics of Skyline gave me the creeps from the first time I saw them! I still think he walked out with a woman we don’t know about yet. Maybe just to get him to a vehicle, but a woman, nonetheless.
http://www.elhispanicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/061010ehnpub.pdf
On page 3 of the June 10th issue of El Hispanic News, distributed free in the Portland Area, is a small article with picture of Kyron Horman.
An advanced google search of the site makes no mention of Elsy Sanchez and her children. WTH? Kind of missing a target audience, wouldn’t you say? Who is that poster for anyway?
http://www.elhispanicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/070810ehnpub.pdf
There is a interesting article (in English) about “Pornland” on Page 1 and the sexual exploitation and human trafficking of children in the Portland area.
Elsy and kids missing since 5/19/10. Do we not think this is related? The woman scorned by TH? Embarrassed by LE about her husband’s dalliances? What would be her motive to take Kyron… revenge? What would she do with Kyron… hide him or sell him? Orphanage in Mexico? She would have known it might not break TH’s heart to lose Kyron but if TH was framed for his absence or death it would ruin her life.
The Sanchez children were “abducted by their mother” and there is a felony warrant out for her:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewCsawDetail&caseNum=1148744&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
Do we believe RS is “cooperating” with LE – MFH sting, GJ testimony? Is it possible he is attempting to find his children one/same as Kyron?
The divers at SI are apparently looking for “a large container” as per anonymous source from inside the investigation. Is this confirmed or just rumor?
So, who have we narrowed down to:
1) Elsy – motive revenge
2) RS – motive revenge
3) Groundskeeper Stensen – motive suspicious for ped
4) Kristian Horman – ped
5) Brian Pumala – Didn’t Pumala’s wife leave town soon after Kyron disappeared?
6) School employee that has not reported for work since Kyron’s disappearance – who is that?
7) MC – stated once that he lives just down the street from KH and TH. Now, how could it be that they hadn’t seen each other in years and only recently reconx when they lived in such close proximity? What is MC’s motive in this story?
8) Lisa Fuhrer-Pumala – did she not leave town the day Kyron disappeared, or close thereto? They lived nextdoor to the KH and TH and had conx to a houseboat on Sauvie. Motive?
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine-Horman-speaks-out-about-vicious-legal-battle-109227234.html
Horman said he wished Terri was still by his side and still helping in the search for their son, Kyron, who has been missing for nearly six months. Horman said he knows wishing doesn’t make it so.
But he added that he believes Terri had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance.
*******************
I really wish someone would get Kaine a good PR person. That was a confusing few sentences. It really isn’t helping, and I’m afraid it just adds more confusion.
So in one breath he wishes he and Terri were still together and she could help in the search for Kyron, and in the next breath, he says he believes Terri had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance.
I know how confused he has to be, but no one is helping him figure out the right way to say things to garner the most support for the continuing search for Kyron.
I felt like he was trying to say that he misses being married to Terri and being together as a family. That’s perfectly normal—except for the fact that he and many others think she had at least some involvement in Kyron’s disappearance!
Also, since we’ve been told by Kaine that Terri spent all her time either on the computer-at the gym, drunk, etc.–that would beg the question of why he would still want to be with her (even hypothetically), or even think about their marriage in a “happy memories” kind of way? Was their home life happy or miserable? If it was in between, that’s not what we’ve been told lately. We’ve been told about constant fighting over her excessive discipline of Kyron and massive disagreements on how she was handling the kids in general, how much money she spent, etc.
The more I listen to or read things Kaine is saying, the more I think he is trying to get a message across to someone.
JMO
OMgosh. Check out this story and the mother’s name. Just another coincidence on the list of many.
http://www.nwcn.com/news/idaho/Kidnapped-Boise-boy-found-in-Central-America-15-months-later-89788377.html
BOISE – A Boise boy who police say was kidnapped by his mother more than a year ago has been found in Central America.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation announced Max Gian Alcalde was found in the last two weeks, traveling with his non-custodial mother in Nicaragua. Max Gian and his mother, Margaret Sanchez Mejia Dunbar-Alcalde were taken into custody by US officials, working together with local police in Nicaragua.
The case unfolded in Boise in November 2008, when police say the then-seven-year-old boy was dropped off at school by his father. The FBI says he was officially reported missing in December.
Food for thought: Did it ever occur to anyone that Ky was not even actually at the SF on June 4th? Some inside sources say that he was NOT placed there. The famous picture was perhaps taken on June 3, when they set up for the fair…Lighting can determine this… I know this sounds, “old school” at this point in time. But really, what evidence is there to actually back up the fact that he was actually present on that Friday morning? A kid’s testimony, that is potentially jaded? (Given that kids will tell you what they think you want to hear…) We do not know what the teachers say. We know what Daddy says… or do we? Call me crazy, toss tortillasw, but…And if so, would KH be complicit, and knoing all along… and at this point is a stand-off between the pair of them? Hate me if you will…juz thinkin’ here. And is this what will, “surprise us, make us think back, reflect…” (paraphrasing…)
Looking through the jail registries, and I cannot find KH’s brother in custody. He was arrested in 2009, booked after Ky went missing and still had charges that the public wasn’t privy to. Why is he out? or am I missing something?
Side note: In Washington County there is a hispanic man who together with his son, is wanted for kidnapping and murdering the son of a man who was having an affair with his wife. I am thinking, why not kill the man having the affair if you are going to kill someone, but perhaps going after someone’s son is a cultural act of revenge. Something to think about in this case.
not related to Kyron, but had been discussed here earlier and both perps (father & son)have last name of Moulton;
from katu: http://www.katu.com/news/local/109139539.html
“The grandfather of an 8-year-old boy who was attacked in a bathroom stall says he worried his grandson was going to be raped or killed.
The attack happened at Backstrom City Park on June 25, 2010. Police say seconds after the boy locked the door, a man crawled under the door, covered his mouth, then started punching him in the face.
But the child’s grandfather came to the rescue.
“I’ve never heard a scream like that in my life, ever,” said Jim Tobin. Tobin was in the campsite about 50 yards away when he raced to the restroom and smashed-in the stall door. He couldn’t believe what he was seeing. “Steven Moulton was standing, leaning over my grandson,” Tobin said. Tobin got help to hold the man until police arrived. Steven Moulton, 21, was arrested and has since been charged with first-degree burglary. Turns out, the man arrested is the son of Michael Moulton, the Morton school teacher who served jail-time for fondling students”.!!!!!
and ironically, “Prosecutors charged Steven Moulton with burglary for forcing his way into the occupied stall. They say they don’t have evidence to prove a sexual assault…”
another poor kid – traumatized for many years to come
@Skyline Parent…
You said that you felt some comfort by LE saying your children now weren’t at risk while attending school. I’m sure that is comforting.
While not getting hyper-vigilant as some of us do following a traumatic event, I urge you to read The Gift of Fear and the subsequent works on this subject of understanding danger. You will appreciate how your
systematic practice and diligence will help protect your little ones.
I struggle every day with my choices, yet I always decide to lock the doors, to be aware, and to never trust anyone with my valuables.
I hope you can read between the lines about doors…awareness…valuables.
Why am I not surprised that today I cannot locate AS-S on VINE or BOP? WTH is going on with this guy? I registered with VINE for email updates for him, but have never received a thing. Argh!
Now going back a bit, is Timur VanDykes still roaming the streets? I dan’t find anything that tells me otherwise and he is not on VINE or BOP either.
mosaic says:
June 14, 2010 at 9:50 pm
(Smipped) Similarly odd, if it was an employee of the school, someone that Kyron knew, then it would seem easy to identify who was missing from work that morning.
Mosaic was right and still is. We’ve been looking at Mr. Malic, Mr. Tandy, Gunga Dave. I would think that all of them have been fully vetted by LE and their whereabouts on June 4th verified. Right? Now if there is some connection btwn. Malic and the extended Sanchez clan that I would consider that a way for the perp to have access to the school. Feels like a big stretch to me, though.
I’ve thought about Pumalas and AV some more as well, although I don’t recall that we’ve ever made a connection between any of them and RS or his associates. Of course there is a connection with the Horman for both families so I wouldn’t rule that out. I’m trying to stay on the landscaper theory as per Blink’s statements. Oy vey, I’m getting dizzy.
Thanks motherhen
From his first interview…seems strange..My gutfeeling,somethings not right!
he is the ls..gk
who knows if TH had dealings with him,told him sob stories,sexual remarks, was trying to resue Kyron,etc.
HE just sticks out to me as a real person of interest.MOO.WANT THIS POOR BABY FOUND! Praying hes alive and “statched” somewhere for DY!
Forgot about DS..
He was there,no one would have noticed him being around, left around the same time,”electric thing”,mexico, I’m sure LE is on to him…moo
@Zeus…. “Horman said he wished Terri was still by his side and still helping in the search for their son, Kyron, who has been missing for nearly six months. Horman said he knows wishing doesn’t make it so.
But he added that he believes Terri had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance.”
I totally agree with you! I was, and still am, very confused over that statement.
You know what I wish the family would do? I wish they would take the money from that “fund” and hire a PI. I think Beejay was jumping up and down on that idea from the beginning and she was right, they need to get a PI and maybe somebody to help them with press releases.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
20.NelMel says:
November 19, 2010 at 9:37 pm
@NelMel- Wow. That is some serious thinking…I’m stunned. I just can’t wrap my head around it. Thinking out loud…who would be willing to assist and hide Ky and take the risk of eventually being caught? And what about the MFH plot? Would it be possible that KH found out about it via emails or texts or something like that and started getting the kids out of the house one by one? But if LE was even thinking this…why the continued searches and money being spent on them? Would it really take them this long to investigate such a hunch and put the pieces together? What about the polys? I guess that would depend on the questions, but still I don’t know how he would squeak by on that. I wish Blink would have made a comment one way or another, she is always my compass. I must go and ruminate on this for awhile, and see what others here have to say as well.
@annals
Re; lyla says:
November 19, 2010 at 11:06 am
Snipped: Let’s add Dave Stenson the groundskeeper.
This is fairly interesting. He saw some children outside looking at the flower bed. Was Ky in that group? Was Stenson the last one to see Ky? Terri arrives at school at 8:15 and leaves at 8:45. Stenson arrives at 8:45 and leaves at 9am.
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It took Dave Stensen more than 15 minutes to mow the soccer field. I’m aware that I’m picking on a small point however;
It’s upsetting to me when working people who were rightfully on the job at their appointed times and places are dragged into abduction discussions. OK, if we’re gunna sluth that’s going to happen. But, if we’re pointing fingers at folks, please take the time to get the references correct. I don’t think saying “IIRC” is enough when pointing fingers.
If we’re going to attack the statements of people who were at Skyline the morning of June 4th (almost all of whom are innocent) please get more accurate information first. I would not like to see any Kronking in this case.
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Do you know for a fact Mr. Stensen has been ruled out or anyone for that matter? I don’t know what Kronking is but I know what an investigation is. If you have info related to any potential suspects in this case could you please share it?
TIA