Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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WriterInTheRain – Love your perspectives on sociopaths and others. I have dealt with my share of them in the criminal justice system for many years but not on a psychiatric level. I can’t tell you what a relief it is for me to take a few weeks off every year just to get away from the manipulative ploys not only of the criminal mind, but the minds of those who are more pathologic. It is exhausting to have to think like a criminal sometimes just to get to the bottom of who’s telling the truth and who’s not in times of conflict. To think like a sociopath is almost impossible. That’s why it is so important to have a mental health department in a prison setting, although I feel their hands are tied too. My point is that most of us ordinary people don’t see the sociopath coming and when bad things start happening, we can’t fathom that another human being could come from a place so dark and evil. As many years as I have spent in the criminal justice system, I still can’t wrap my mind around the mind of a sociopath. The prison system is full of them however.
Amy’s Sister says:
Can you imagine what he’s going through? Having his faults exposed publically after the loss of Kyron and not knowing where he is or what has become of him? Having one spouse betray you and your ex spouse angry with you, then try and be a healthy daddy to Kiara?
——————————–
Amy’s Sister, you’ve raised an important point about Kiara. In addition to finding Kyron, of utmost priority is for Kiara to have a healthy daddy to care for her.
Kaine’s therapist has undoubtedly informed him that unreleased guilt will destroy him – and bring further harm to Kiara by extension. For Kiara’s sake, Kaine must remain as strong and mentally healthy as possible – which can only happen if he is not consumed by guilt and forgives himself for not seeing the disappearance of Kyron coming.
45.amychika says:
November 20, 2010 at 4:25 am
not related to Kyron, but had been discussed here earlier and both perps (father & son)have last name of Moulton;
from katu: http://www.katu.com/news/local/109139539.html
“The grandfather of an 8-year-old boy who was attacked in a bathroom stall says he worried his grandson was going to be raped or killed.
**********************
@amychika- Good catch! So…how do we know that these Moultons are not related in any way to TH or her parents?
Idahogal says:
“@NelMel- Wow. That is some serious thinking…I’m stunned. I just can’t wrap my head around it. (snip)”
—
I can’t wrap my head around anything either. What I find myself doing is entertaining all the ideas and urges that LE might experience in a case like this. Then I just ask myself a million questions, based on what has happened (for example) in missing/murdered child cases in my area.
What does LE decide to study? None of us will ever know everything that police chose to study or consider in any case. We often just find out only the break in the investigation, any case, which might be what we thought all along, or, we see that another suspect is arrested and charged. But we never find out all the details of the investigation. Even famous books about famous cases, such as “In Cold Blood,” can never give us every detail.
Missing child cases in my area have produced a few shocks. Who the public in my town pointed the finger to, in the case of a murdered 15 year old boy in my town in 1992, was absolutely NOT the killer.
In 2008, Erin Maxwell (Oswego County, NY) was murdered in her home. Prior to this, CPS had investigated the sick cesspool of a house she lived in…with her stepmother and her father and a stepbrother. They claimed later, after she was murdered, that they did not at the time see cause to remove her from the home. It was a decision that was Erin’s death sentence, and indeed, the house was unlivable, a putrid world. CPS in that county, since then, was publicly trashed, and for good reason. In the adjoining counties, workers would have pulled Erin out of that home and that’s a fact.
Initially in Erin’s case, after her murder, the issue was the horror of the house. She literally was eating food out of school cafeteria garbage cans because she wasn’t being fed at home past 1/2 of one meal that she was “allowed” to scarf down in 3 minutes. Why didn’t CPS get her out of there? They had visited the home! Erin slept among animal feces. Her parents locked her in her room every evening and the latch lock was outside the door. They would then conduct their life, Erin-free, all evening, including visiting neighbors or friends. They had guests over (who would want to go there, I don’t understand) and kept Erin locked away. This was a cave! And that little girl still managed to go to school and smile. The focus, by the public, was the parents. Why were the parents abusing and neglecting this beautiful little girl? And yes, the “evil stepmother” stories occurred. Teachers reported her situation. At least one neighbor called CPS. People knew that Erin was suffering.
The problem is that Erin was murdered by her stepbrother.
Her stepmother is truly a monster, and treated Erin horribly, and Erin’s father was a spineless loser who wussed out and let it happen to his own daughter. But it was the stepbrother!! — in his late 20′s — who initially appeared to be intellectually “slow” — who turned out to be filled with so much rage toward Erin that he strangled her. Why didn’t anyone see that coming? The focus had been on the two parents who everyone agreed were monsters for how they treated Erin. Truly, their behavior was the worst of the worst. But they were not killers — they were idiots, they were selfish, lazy, had no ethics, and were so dense they saw nothing wrong in how they treated Erin. That quiet young man in their house, who people felt sorry for, who flew under the radar as “slow,” was a killer. Turns out, he wasn’t slow after all. I view him, as others do now, as a lazy, spoiled, self-absorbed little boy who’s mother (Erin’s stepmother) let him sit on his butt all day doing nothing but surf a computer and eat the food she wouldn’t feed to Erin. Hindsight about him now is only a lesson that a community and a county agency failed to learn on time, and Erin’s dead.
Did police know this would happen? Did CPS know that the stepbrother was such a risk? Was he being looked at? I think, tragically, that because CPS made the mistake it made — not removing Erin from the home — that the classic case of lousy parents, and “working” with the parents on a limited CPS budget, was all they saw. Police were then not involved until after Erin was murdered.
In my mind there has to be, in Kryon’s case, a group in LE who are not limiting their ideas to just nailing Terri Horman’s butt to the wall. That they are looking at EVERYONE…because they know it’s not all about Terri, it’s all about Kyron, and to hell with offending anyone over what they’re trying to discover or prove now.
I believe, for Kyron, “anything is possible.” Look at everyone, even the nice guys who were set aside in June as nice guys. I am not the least bit concerned if someone is offended if LE looks at him/her now. Or looks again, in a different and “offensive” way. I don’t care who’s offended by LE’s attention. Kyron is the only offended party here!
Reposting info. on Dave Stensen: Here are links and snippets from KATU:
Aug 12, 2010
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html
PORTLAND, Ore. – A groundskeeper who works at Skyline School says he never saw the white pickup truck on the access road investigators say it may have been parked on during the morning Kyron Horman disappeared.
He said he cut the grass on the soccer field between 7:45 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. the morning of June 4 and never saw the Hormans’ truck on the road.
Investigators are talking to Stensen and checking his information against what they’ve gathered. They say they find him credible
Aug 13, 2010
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html
PORTLAND, Ore. – A groundskeeper, who was mowing the soccer field at Skyline School the morning Kyron Horman disappeared, clarified his timeline to investigators Friday morning and it differs slightly from what he told a KATU News reporter earlier in the week
He met with two detectives and a deputy district attorney at Skyline School early Friday to go over his timeline in detail.
Stensen told a reporter earlier in the week that he cut the grass on the soccer field between 7:45 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. and never saw the truck on the road.
Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. or 9 a.m., which means he could have missed seeing the Horman truck being in the two spots investigators are interested in, especially since he spent his time and attention at the school mowing the soccer field.
Honestly, I just don’t think this is our perp.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-speaks-out-about-vicious-legal-battle-109227234.html
“Kaine Horman speaks out about vicious legal battle”
Please take note that this is a news STORY. This is not the recording of an interview with Kaine Hormon. We do not know the questions or in what context they were answered. I hate media manipulation and this is a prime example of it.
I don’t have training in the psychological health sciences so don’t attempt to understand Kaine’s statements or behaviors through those eyes. I will venture to say here, based on my gut reactions during interviews shortly after he moved and filed for divorce and the RO, and the sting, that Kaine Hormon loved Terri Hormon. I felt that his words and actions toward Terri in interviews did not show a vicious or seething anger toward her, which is more like what I would have expected. His reaction was more like everyone who found out someone they loved wanted them dead, sent sext messages to an old acquaintance and may have hurt your small son. When someone you love does something vile to you, you hurt terribly and try to figure out what happened.
Can I believe Kaine had no idea, from whatever cause, that TH hated him, etc.? I can. Upthread, a commenter related how men often act at the end of a relationship. They had no idea it was coming. They are blindsided and in disbelief. I have seen this very “wtf” reaction in several men among my friends and family during the saga of ending a long term relationship. To hear that it is an identified behavior acknowledged in the counseling world affords me the courage to say, if you take everything you read and hear and keep in mind he loved TH, and I mean real love, then it does not sound weird or not right.
It’s our nature to seek understanding of something by trying to understand it’s cause and that’s a wondrous quality in humankind. But, we are also hardwired to continuously test both objective and subjective hypotheses. Because of these human qualities, we tend to identify cause where it often really does not exist. I don’t possess a learned opinion about Kaine’s clinical psyche behaviors so all I have is my gut feeling. I do not believe that whatever Kaine’s diagnoses are, they somehow caused TH to try to have him killed or possibly abduct and harm his son.
Although, I like to read the comments, diagnoses and opinions about Kaine being controlling, or abusive, I don’t see them as relevant to Kyron’s abduction. I don’t believe they caused the ill fate Kyron has met.
However, I can see it’s possible that his personality coupled with her personality brewed the perfect storm with this horrendous outcome. I prefer to give Kaine the benefit of my doubt. To me his behavior shows a typical human male’s reaction to a painful break-up, ON TOP OF the gut-wrenching, terrifying reality of a child missing. I don’t see an intrinsically bad or deceitful person. I don’t believe he is the epitome of moral perfection, but as Blink has reminded us, we all live in glass houses.
Malidu –
Kyron was seen at the school.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html
Parent Gina Zimmerman said she last saw Kyron in the morning, when he posed in a classroom in front of his “red-eyed tree frog” science project. She said her daughter is one of Kyron’s best friends and she knew him well.
Zimmerman said that Kyron was not the type of child to wander off. “He knows ‘stranger danger,” she said. “He’s a really good kid.”
A little about the side taking-issue: There used to be two sides, Terri’s and Kaine/Desiree’s but now there are three different viewpoints to support: Terri’s, Kaine’s and Desiree’s. If you completely support Desiree’s current version of things, you can’t help but be critical of Kaine.
What I see Kaine doing is minimizing Desiree’s disappointment in him. Oh, she’s just worn out and upset right now, she’ll get over it by the holidays. This reminds me of his answer to the question of why the searchers were on Sauvie Island: because the family had spent a lot of time there. A disconnect with reality. Desiree is reacting exactly as I would expect a normal person to react in these circumstances. If anything, I think she has been more than considerate of Kaine, looking to him in interviews before speaking, etc. I don’t blame her for one bit for not supporting his choices. Some people really don’t think anyone will call them on their bullshit.
But what this really has me wondering is if he didn’t minimize Terri’s expressions of feeling trapped, overwhelmed, and angry. He says looking back now he could see the signs: she was staggering, passing out; they were arguing about her inappropriateness with the children. This was Terri’s behavior of deception? A normal person would say it again louder until their partner hears them or leave, like Desiree did. However, a person who can’t feel anything but her own hurt is too dangerous ignore and diminish.
Kaine shows me he has not learned his lesson with his current minimizing of Desiree’s completely appropriate emotions. I pity his suffering and would never wish it on him, but apparently he has absolved himself from guilt in this situation because he was an unwitting victim of a con-woman. And nothing anyone says besides what he wants to hear matters to him. Sure he is an engineer – so is my husband and he acts the same way. Doesn’t make it healthy.
I think this is the way Kaine controls. When Desiree asked him to switch custody in 2009, he wouldn’t hear of it. He gets his way by not “hearing” the needs of others.
But we can learn from this situation. Terri was showing the signs of someone about to snap. Gwen Rabe called her exhausted, unstable, struggling, and unhappy in her marriage. I guess the lesson would be not to ignore the signs.
mosaic says:
November 18, 2010 at 2:14 pm
“You (twinkletoes) started off by saying, “I suspect he [Kaine] is… a little off center emotionally himself (like attracts like, right?).” Twinkle, does that mean Desiree is off emotionally, too? At some point Kaine and Desiree were attracted to each other. And then that would make Tony “off center emotionally” too, because from all appearances, Tony is attracted to his wife (one can safely assume). To label someone “off center” because their spouse is emotionally off just doesn’t fly.”
Desiree may have been attracted to Kaine but when his behavior showed her she couldn’t trust him, she filed for divorce. And then she found a good man. She went a different path than Terri.
Does anyone know if KH had another vehicle he could have driven to work that day 6/4? Not the Mustang (RDSQRL)—but another set of wheels that would have left the Red Mustang available to someone else to use?
S says:
November 20, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Well said S. I second that opinion. I think Kaine was blindsided.
Rose says:
November 19, 2010 at 7:33 pm
unless Terri worked at Bottoms or morefar flung outliers (porn or more), even 3 marriages & one DUI dont make her a Borderline, much less a Sociopath. Sorry, I’ve known them in my jobs; she ain’t it. Lots of manipulative moms in PTA America, neighborhoods, in corporate life–doesn’t interfere w/social functioning–just irritates husbands/girlfriends–not a mental illness
~~~
Thank you for the above … people use the “S” word like a scarlet letter. My observation of TH .. based upon the recently released e-mails .. is she was under a tremondous amount of stress and pressure in her marriage and didn’t know a way out.
41.Madilu says:
November 20, 2010 at 2:01 am
Food for thought: Did it ever occur to anyone that Ky was not even actually at the SF on June 4th? Some inside sources say that he was NOT placed there. The famous picture was perhaps taken on June 3, when they set up for the fair…Lighting can determine this… I know this sounds, “old school” at this point in time. But really, what evidence is there to actually back up the fact that he was actually present on that Friday morning? A kid’s testimony, that is potentially jaded? (Given that kids will tell you what they think you want to hear…) We do not know what the teachers say. We know what Daddy says… or do we? Call me crazy, toss tortillasw, but…And if so, would KH be complicit, and knoing all along… and at this point is a stand-off between the pair of them? Hate me if you will…juz thinkin’ here. And is this what will, “surprise us, make us think back, reflect…” (paraphrasing…)
@Madilu
It seems like we don’t know anything for a “fact”. But, that would mean TH wasn’t there also and her truck wasn’t there. So she left home with Ky and Kiara and went where? I also saw a copy of TH’s Facebook Page..she was playing some game and the time was June 4 9:01 am which is different from your timeline of 8:01am. Also a while back Skyline parent said Terri was seen with Kiara at the school. Surely someone at the school could verify this.
Maybe Skyline parent can fill us in
NelMel says:
November 19, 2010 at 9:37 pm
I’ve just re-read my prior post about Kaine’s comments, and once again…this keeps happening to my poor ol’ head…I am sent back to the September sheriff’s press conference.
Think.
Staton referred to a surprise. WE would be surprised.
~~~
NelMel are so on the same wave length. I said in August, when the billboards were coming down, wall of hope was being removed, last press conference … that it “appeared” this case was going dormant … for a reason … to flush someone out.
Who are we seeing in public this week, making sure their message is getting out?… not TH. She may be all kinds of things … but she is definitely being quiet.
Cbickel says:
November 19, 2010 at 10:26 pm
OK, I just watched KH’s video and I call bull-shit (can I say bull-shit?) Why does he expect DY to talk to him over the holiday’s if Kyron isn’t there?
~~~
my first reaction was .. “is she bringing the green bean casserole”? … WTF … they’re going through a really difficult patch right now, but she’ll get over it????
Serious denial … SERIOUS denial of accountability. red flag
NelMel says:
November 20, 2010 at 11:23 am
In my mind there has to be, in Kryon’s case, a group in LE who are not limiting their ideas to just nailing Terri Horman’s butt to the wall. That they are looking at EVERYONE…because they know it’s not all about Terri, it’s all about Kyron, and to hell with offending anyone over what they’re trying to discover or prove now.
~~~
Remember … there is a profile of the “perp … and there is a profile of TH … and others.
NelMel says:
November 19, 2010 at 8:59 pm
I found this comment by Kaine in a transcript of his interview today a bit…er…astonishing and not in a good way.
Discussing the idea that some people considered his claims about TH in his custody case as “mudslinging,” he disagreed with that assessment. But then he said:
“Even the judge has stated that this is all about finding Kyron and bringing him home,” Kaine said, “and there should be nothing that prevents that or deters from that. This is definitely not deterring from it one bit.”
A Family court judge who is not reading court documents about Kyron’s custody, but Kiara’a custody, is stating that “this is all about finding Kyron?”
?????????????????????????????????
~~~~
red flag …. NelMel, I’m going to stop posting and just cut and paste your comments!!
Kat says:
November 20, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Does anyone know if KH had another vehicle he could have driven to work that day 6/4? Not the Mustang (RDSQRL)—but another set of wheels that would have left the Red Mustang available to someone else to use?
~~~~
so it is possible that the red mustang was out and about that morning … just not being driven by KH.
MOO Consider — Terri is very vocal, Terri shares her feelings with lots of people, apparently indiscriminately, and I think we can safely say she uses her sexuality to manipulate, to get attention, and to feel good about herself and powerful — maybe especially in situations where she feels especially powerless.
Who is to say there wasn’t some other “admirer” of Terri, who she was provocative with, who she may have also vented to, and maybe even said things like “my husband is so horrible to me, i wish he was dead,” and “my stepson is absolutely driving me crazy and sometimes i wish he was gone” — whatever — the point being, someone could have thought:
1. He was going to solve Terri’s problems and “win” her by taking Kyron — and perhaps she was notified of this (note on the day of the kidnapping), freaked out, and then everything went wrong, which she initially withheld so as not to implicate herself but has since come forth with
2. After doing all kinds of things to “win” Terri, and perhaps being spurned after feeling he was “promised” something (as RS is supposed to have claimed — but I’m not talking about him in this scenario), this person decided to get even — and maybe let Terri know (with the note or whatever, again prompting a lot of action on SI)
and, perhaps one or the other scenario went even more wrong and as plan B a ransom was presented, and then that fell through too — because LE advised Kaine to not play along, or there is no money, or whatever
and again — initial plans changed, Kyron is not returned and LE is trying to find out what happened to him — which Terri really doesn’t know.
I don’t know how the MFH fits in other than it may have been RS’s ticket out of any liability and something he turned into more than it was — perhaps just a lot of complaining from Terri.
So — I think she did have something to hide initially — about that day — and it could have been some other illegal activity she was involved in or Kyron’s disappearance — and so she is culpable either way to criminal prosecution, but has by this time told LE everything she knows, she just doesn’t know enough to find Kyron.
That means we look to who else she had in her life, how close they were to Skyline, and their motivation — sexual if it was to “be with” Terri, but not sexual in relation to Kyron — and whatever the plan was, it went wrong — the perp did not get their intended result, and maybe they are long gone by now with no clear evidence as to what happened to Kyron.
As far as Kaine and Desiree and all their meetings with the media, I have no idea whether this is condoned or directed by LE or if LE cringes every time they do or say something. Why they recently shared emails with them? Don’t know — what is the purpose — unless to help flush someone out.
@WriterintheRain: Great perspective. I could hug and kiss you for the validation. You wrote far more eloquently than I, but yes, exactamundo… the sociopath who found me only showed his true colors if he no longer needed his “source” for his “supply”. And figuring out the lies took some real work, but damn, I managed and it was worth it. Anyway, loved what you wrote.
@Zeus: I’m not an expert, so my guess is worth nada, but I’m going to say I don’t think so. I think that he’s repeating “couch” words from therapy. Again, only my guess, not even my hard and fast opinion.
RE; lyla says:
November 20, 2010 at 10:29 am
Snipped; “Do you know for a fact Mr. Stensen has been ruled out or anyone for that matter?”
—————————-
No, I don’t. Not in general, nor specifically. But in this instance, according to Anna Canzano of KATU; “He [Dave Stensen] met with 2 detectives and the lead prosecutor in this case. They all went up to Skyline School early this morning [Fri Aug 13] to review the groundskeeper’s timeline.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html?tab=video
What this tells me is that LE verified for themselves whether his statement is accurate as to what could or couldn’t be seen from the field. Could he have seen “children come out the back door” & “looked at some plants in a raised bed”? I don’t know, but I feel assured that LE knows whether it’s possible, because they bothered to go to the school rather than conduct a more convenient interview by phone.
Here’s a comment I was refering to when I said, “If we’re going to attack the statements of people who were at Skyline the morning of June 4th (almost all of whom are innocent) please get more accurate information first.”
Kimberly says:
November 18, 2010 at 10:44 pm
So while I watched this video with the link ccane provided, I had a couple of thoughts!
GK, Dave Stensen said, IIRC something to the effect that he seen a group of a few kids come outside to look at a garden , they were with an adult.
When watching this video, I cannot see the soccer field he was mowing, from the location of the garden, AND, the slope.
To me , it was physically impossible for him to see the garden area!
Thoughts anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUujGloz4eE
——————————————
Perehaps Kimberly reviewed the news videos of Dave Stensen before posting and is simply wondering if LE caught him in a lie as to what was visible from the field. If so; my bad. But she does inaccurately quote him as seeing an adult with the kids, which led me to conclude that she hadn’t reviewed accessable information before posting.
———————————
Re; lyla says:
November 19, 2010 at 11:06 am
Snipped; “Stenson arrives at 8:45 and leaves at 9am.”
———————————
This is inaccurate to Stensen’s statements in the the KATU reports. Again, I know I’m nitpicking but in this blog we are pointing fingers at a lot of folks, by name, and I am sensitive to that.
I am asking that when we point fingers, let’s please review the relevant information available before posting, so that our posts don’t contain inaccuracies which may be repeated later down the line. Inaccuracies which may (now or later, as inaccuracies are echoed) paint mere witnesses as more sinister than not.
Please forgive me for picking on these 2 posts, lyla & Kimberly. They are not unusual as to small inaccuracies posted here. They stood out to me only because back in Aug when KATU reported on the groundskeeper it caught my attention and I researched him at the time. I am expressing my own discomfort at our posted suspicions of so many people, all of whom are innocent except for 1, 2 or 3. And no, I certainly don’t know who, exactly, are innocent; only that the proponderance are. I hope we will give them all the minimal respect of making sure that, when we name them as suspicious, we don’t misquote them nor change reported information relevant to their circumstances as witnesses.
annals says:
November 19, 2010 at 9:14 pm, snipped;
I would not like to see any Kronking in this case.
I used the made-up word ‘Kronking’ (a term I did not originate) to mean witnesses who become the accused; as in Roy Kronk the meter reader who discovered Caylee Anthony’s remains. He who was dragged through the mud by the Casey Anthony defense team, attempting the creation of reasonable doubt. I appologise for using an obscure reference which is far from an accepted term.
NelMel says:
November 19, 2010 at 9:37 pm
NelMel,
All you had to say is not odd, but very observant. What Staton had to say at that presser remains at the front of my mind. When I think shocking, I don’t think of TH because she has already been dragged through the dirt and tied to the stake.
When I think shocking, I have thought of:
KH
LE involvement
Political figure
School / County / City Employee
When Staton said that things were causing the investigative team seriuos stress (not exact words) I thought of LE involvment. Things they wished they did not know.
Good post.
Kaylee says:
November 20, 2010 at 12:24 pm
A little about the side taking-issue: There used to be two sides, Terri’s and Kaine/Desiree’s but now there are three different viewpoints to support: Terri’s, Kaine’s and Desiree’s. If you completely support Desiree’s current version of things, you can’t help but be critical of Kaine.
@Kaylee: respectfully, I disagree. I can support both Desiree and Kaine, and I do. IMO, there is no “side” there to take; there are just two deeply hurt, scared, angry parents doing their best to muddle through this, and it’s no surprise that they have two different perspectives on some of what went on because they are two different people, with two different experiences with TH, and yet they share an immense love for their son.
********************************************************
I may be *very* wrong on this, but I think some of the Kaine “analysis” comes from projection and previous experience, and that is why the opinions can be strong and oppositional. JMOO.
two wild cards that I can’t explain … Sauvie Island searches and WHERE is Kyron?
As tightly wrapped emotionally Kaine is, I can definitely see him passing a LDT test… and TH as emotionally unstable as she has been portrayed, of course there was deception in a couple of areas. STILL, she did answer truthfully to she didn’t take Kryon and didn’t know where he was.
Why the repeated intense search of SI and not the surrounding open countryside? IF SI is the “disposal grounds” it had to have been by someone who knew exactly where they were going and what they were going to accomplish. The early “tip” of a container was a ruse maybe … and subsequent searches have been to find other “evidence” and/or said container.
The countryside is the most obvious place, to me, for a burial ground. Would take an indefinite amount of time to scour and locate remains.
So it comes down to “where is Kyron”? Personally, I think he was removed from the area … and Kaine has said as much… is he still alive? IDK
Also … any renewed curiousity about MC? didn’t appear before the GJ last we heard.
Idahogal,
Not interested in debating another person’s experience of pain. Unfortunately, it is what it is. I promise you, I was not seeking to have the last word. I was more hoping to hear what you had thought about my latest post.
I say this in the friendliest way — Just as you did not like having a net cast over you with respect to alcoholism, I equally don’t enjoy having a net cast over me. I can tell you that I did not need to make any conscious decision to break a cycle of abuse. I am naturally repulsed by all forms of abuse. It is not part of my make-up.
When I have the stomach for it, I will try and read what you have presented. I have worked in a position of having to read about abuse cases first hand. Makes me want to vomit.
@MotherHen- I could tell you about a lot of pain, but you would probably want to debate me on it, so I won’t, lol. Obviously you are not repeating the cycle, that is good! I will give you a nugget of wisdom here that I have learned, woman to woman, mom to mom, friend to friend: Having the last word does not win friends or influence people. Just be your own beautiful, smart, confident self and appreciate the wisdom and experiences of others for what it is. XO
Prayers for Kyron. Let’s find Kyron. Thinking of you today Kron and everyday sweetheart.
Kaine and Desiree still share the opinion that Terri is responsible for the disappearance of their son. Even with their recent falling out, Kaine and Desiree still share this opinion. What does this tell you?
I just went in search of the last name Masic for origins. I could not find the name listed on any surname searches, however I did see a lot of searches that led me to the Balkans.
I said I would not mention it again, but in may vision the old man on the boat could very easily have been from the Balkans, was definitely not hispanic, so I was not at all surprised that LE posted signage in Russian. I wonder if Salim Masic resides here with his father and, if so, what his father looks like?
@NelMel and @puzzled- It seems you are both hopping along the same rabbit trail, I’m still thinking because it is so bizarre to me. What on earth would be the motive?! Argh, I just can’t even go there, ya’ know? The one thing I can say is I’d be thrilled beyond measure to think that Ky was safe and well cared for somewhere. Also, if this were even close to what Blink already knows or thinks is true, she wouldn’t post it. Right? Again, she is my compass and I always think about that.
I’m still pretty hung up on RS, Elsy and associates. And wondering again where AS-S has crawled off to with the US Marshalls and ICE and Lord knows who else drags him about for whatever they are doing.
Mother Hen- I’m not sharing any more of my “pain”, this is not a therapy blog, lol. Keep you chin up and enjoy you weekend with your wonderful girl!
I think that is one of the biggest problems in this case- It tends to make us want to take sides- there are NO SIDES- There is no Kaine’s side -There is no Terri’s side- There is no Desiree’s side-
We should all be looking at it from noone’s side- but from an objective point of view that will /can be swayed with facts and evidence. So far it has only been their SIDE of the story.
I am on Kyron’s side- there are days when I want to take Kaine’s side or Terri’s side or Desiree’s side-but I try not to because it is ALL a distraction from the truth- each one has contributed to the family dynamics-each one of them as made mistakes- What should matter is weeding thru the BS and uncovering the truth of what became of Kyron-
Value judgments and disdain for choices right or wrong- sleazy or unsleazy- selfish or unselfish shouldn’t matter- We should try to stay objective until we know where the real blame lies. No sides exceptprosecution and defense and always and forever Kyron’s side.JMO
Cbickel says:
November 20, 2010 at 9:51 am
“You know what I wish the family would do? I wish they would take the money from that “fund” and hire a PI. I think Beejay was jumping up and down on that idea from the beginning and she was right, they need to get a PI and maybe somebody to help them with press releases.”
****************************
I agree with you and Beejay-100%!
AS-S released from MCIJ 11-19 to US Immigration; as yet unsentenced. US Marshall’s hold “disposed.” Whoa???
Fed BOP shows “in transit” today
http://www.mcso.us/PAID/BookingDetail.aspx?ID=TDjDdNWwsj0BwR/cef3zjA==
http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingMoreList=false&FirstName=anselmo&Middle=&LastName=Sanchez-sanchez&Race=U&Sex=U&Age=&x=71&y=12
I was watching a recent Kaine Horman interview video at KATU today when I saw a link to another news story that caught my eye. It was the story of an 8-year old boy who was attacked in a bathroom stall by 21-year old Steven Moulton in Morton, Washington. The attack happened on June 28. I don’t know why this story wasn’t published until now. http://www.katu.com/news/109139539.html
The story jumped out at me because of the alleged crime on a child by someone with the last name, Moulton. Steven Moulton is the son of Michael Moulton, a Morton school teacher who served jail time for fondling students.
Forgive me if this was already covered here, but I had to wonder whether Michael and Steven Moulton had any connection to Terri Moulton Horman.
Jackie Bauer
says:
November 20, 2010 at 1:58 pm
“I may be *very* wrong on this, but I think some of the Kaine “analysis” comes from projection and previous experience, and that is why the opinions can be strong and oppositional. JMOO.”
Jackie, I fully expected you to respond, as you have long been Kaine’s biggest champion. We have long respectfully disagreed on this, though I think the statement above is a little lacking in respect, respectfully. I think it’s fair to say that some of the “analysis” comes from personal experience, if we can also say some of the support for him and condemnation of Terri comes from similar projection.
Many on this blog have attested to losing a child being a life-changing event. However, Kaine has not changed in response to Desiree. He minimized her concerns a year ago, and he is doing it now. This is verifiable by his actions and words – no projection needed. MOO
@Amy’s Sister: Salim Masic sounds like a Bosnian name to me. While the ic ending is Balkan, the first name is a Arabic name. Bosnia-Herzegovina is a predominately Muslim country.
Actually, Kaylee, I’m not going to debate you re: “November 20, 2010 at 1:58 pm
“I may be *very* wrong on this, but I think some of the Kaine “analysis” comes from projection and previous experience, and that is why the opinions can be strong and oppositional. JMOO.”
It wasn’t directed to you, and it was my opinion only, an observation. I don’t mean it to be disrespectful at all, merely food for thought.
just a note: The ********** line was to separate what was addressed to you, and what wasn’t specifically to you. Also, if you will look back at my earlier posts from June and July, I *did* question Kaine, his brother *and* his parents, but LE seems to have fully vetted them. I don’t consider myself a Kaine-defender by any stretch, but I obviously do see things from a different point of view, and I don’t think mine or yours are 100% accurate because I don’t think the truth works that way.
oh, that last post was for Kaylee again. Forgot to add that.
@beejay says:
November 20, 2010 at 3:58 pm
“AS-S released from MCIJ 11-19 to US Immigration; as yet unsentenced. US Marshall’s hold “disposed.” Whoa???
Fed BOP shows “in transit” today”
Maybe it is actually all over for him.. ICE has him & it’s most likely he is in transit to Tacoma. Note the change in the last name.. the space has been added back in.
https://locator.ice.gov/odls/searchByName.do
ANSELMO SANCHEZ SANCHEZ Mexico 1982 In Custody
Current Detention Facility: Call Field Office
PS: don’t expect any joy in calling the Field Office aka District Office (the number provided is for Tacoma anyway). Currently, ICE detainees are held locally in a county jail for their x-fer north.
But I might call on Monday. : )
@beejay says:
November 17, 2010 at 12:13 pm
beejay, regarding the Russian connection to “your candidate” (aren’t you glad he’s yours! lol).. mine turns out to be Ukranian (if you want to split hairs) and he is in Hawaii. I didn’t see anything familiar from your link. However, I seem to have accidentally, and in more than one case, tripped over arms dealing, ala the hapless RTS (candidate). Makes me wonder about the world we live in these days.
——————————–
@beejay says:
November 18, 2010 at 6:16 am
“@evie: I think you had asked about how to follow someone’s case (“my candidate”?). Well, my paralegal skills are really rusty, but you have to find out about the court structure–what cases get tried where–unique to each state first.”
Thank you so much for your generous explanation and post. I’ll try to put it all to good use. Thank you!
PS: I think everyone should go back to that post and copy it for future use.
Okay, I have a question. Does anybody know if anyone else besides TMH and DDS have hired lawyers related to the criminal investigation?
I should have said “in response to” the criminal investigation.
29.Mom3.0 says:
November 20, 2010 at 3:56 pm
I think that is one of the biggest problems in this case- It tends to make us want to take sides- there are NO SIDES- There is no Kaine’s side -There is no Terri’s side- There is no Desiree’s side- We should all be looking at it from noone’s side- but from an objective point of view that will /can be swayed with facts and evidence.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well said, Mom3.0!
@ evie says:
November 20, 2010 at 5:13 pm
____________________
U R very welcome!
Still want to see my “candidate” media coverage. Anybody got a link? TIA
@evie: you call the Field Office
I swear, if i can get there I’m going to visit. This case needs feet on the ground. ICE info:
Name: ANSELMO SANCHEZ SANCHEZ
Country of Birth: Mexico
Year of Birth: 1982
Status: In Custody
Detention Facility
Call Field Office
Visitor Information: (206) 835-0650
Idahogal,
Anyone with a slight amount of intelligence can see how you operate. I don’t think you are capable of having a fair discussion.
It is your way, or the highway, even when you are proven wrong.
It is nothing short of slander to continue the way you are.
Truly disgusting.
Ok. Enough. I mean that.
Respectfully, I have tried unsuccessfully to keep you out of your own way.
Everything is not personal, requiring a defense response, or a return lob over the net.
You seem like a very bright, introspective, compassionate and charismatic individual.
I have no idea why you would wish to walk around in a cactus suit, but you seem to enjoy it.
You are out of line and attacking wrt Idaho girl, who I have been watching since I approved your earlier response comment.
That was also out of line as she has tried to disconnect the direct conversation by complimenting you, but I wanted to see it play out as I have felt this way more than once where you are concerned.
You have no right to refer to anyone who contributes here in such a manner that is beneath me, you, and us.
I have no doubt this is not the first time anyone has told you this, or the 500th.
It would be my pleasure to invite you to contribute without the broom handle or similar metaphoric symbol uncomfortably lodged.
Respectfully submitted but rapidly aquiring a decorum defficiency-
B
If this type of garbage is allowed on this site, I am done.
Idahogal,
Please don’t address me again. Ever.
I wasn’t going to post your meltdowns over nothing that led to my response, but I think in fairness readers need to understand what pushed me to the point I got to with this nonsense. One can have opinions and share them without having to attack others all the time. I do not have the time or inclination, let’s move on.
B
Scuttlebutt has been that ICE agents have been extremely frustrated with their new leader (2009) John Morton. They’ve felt more than ever they can’t do the job ICE is supposed to be about.
Putting politics aside for a moment, all the fed agents I know have a real sense of responsibility to enforce the laws as they stand. Is everyone aware that in June the ICE employee union wrote a letter of no confidence?
I didn’t know til August. Long time fed agents I know were stunned that it happened. Stunned. (thought it was great, though).
Quick media ref I found starts off this way:
“In an unprecedented move within the Department of Homeland Security, the detention and removal officers and agents responsible for and sworn to enforcing our nation’s immigration laws issued an exhaustive, scathing letter simply titled “VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN ICE DIRECTOR JOHN MORTON AND ODPP ASSISTANT DIRECTOR PHYLLIS COVEN” on June 11, 2010.”
link: http://www.cis.org/kephart/ICE-mission-melt-1
Stensen told KATU that he recalls the day of the science fair and does not remember it being “particularly chaotic” that morning.
“It seemed like just a pretty normal day… It was kind of damp and wet,” he said. “It had been wet for a while and the fields were hard to mow. [I] noticed that there was some children that came out the back door, and I thought, ‘please don’t come down and play soccer.’ But they came out and looked at some plants that were in the raised bed.”
*****************************************
My bad on the adult, that is why I specifically
said, “IIRC”!
Please keep in mind that he (Dave ) changed his story
twice, that I know of, and the Katu link you have
and others that can be found on google can provide this for you
if you would like to dig deeper.
42.beejay says:
November 20, 2010 at 5:45 pm
************************************
Beejay, it was on our 10pm news
and haven’t seen it since.
it was on Fox 12
cannot locate it now.
http://www.kptv.com/news/index.html
When someone says, “With all due respect” that I am incorrect when I offered my own opinion, is out of line. When that person continues to engage and then they don’t like the response, that is not my fault or problem.
When this person can claim a net cast over them, but nobody else can, that is a biased perspective.
I have done nothing wrong, whatsoever. What it appears that you don’t like is that I stand up for myself when someone implies things that are false.
I don’t agree with you, at all. And that is my right.
I am done with the double-standards.
==================================================
Ok. Enough. I mean that.
Respectfully, I have tried unsuccessfully to keep you out of your own way.
Everything is not personal, requiring a defense response, or a return lob over the net.
You seem like a very bright, introspective, compassionate and charismatic individual.
I have no idea why you would wish to walk around in a cactus suit, but you seem to enjoy it.
You are out of line and attacking wrt Idaho girl, who I have been watching since I approved your earlier response comment.
That was also out of line as she has tried to disconnect the direct conversation by complimenting you, but I wanted to see it play out as I have felt this way more than once where you are concerned.
You have no right to refer to anyone who contributes here in such a manner that is beneath me, you, and us.
I have no doubt this is not the first time anyone has told you this, or the 500th.
It would be my pleasure to invite you to contribute without the broom handle or similar metaphoric symbol uncomfortably lodged.
Respectfully submitted but rapidly aquiring a decorum defficiency-
B
Mother Hen-
Good Point. I had not considered that. Excellent suggestion and thanks for pointing it out.
To the people in this atmosphere:
There is never a winner when arguing with an individual happily marooned on the island of right. They eat any “Wilson ” bloody palm print and all.
Wish them a happy rescue and move on. Like This.
B