Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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@Nancy…”To me the issue is not whether or not TH took Kyron to the doctor. The issue is that she claims Kyron was having seizures/wandering, she told acquaintances at the school but did not bother to mention the seizures/wandering to his parents. Supposedly TH sent texts to Desiree daily, but said nothing about Kyron experiencing very serious physical problems???”
Did you read all of what I said? We don’t “know” anything really about what TH did or didn’t tell Kyron’s parent’s. Here’s what I said…”I know there have been times when I’ve told my husband things that I thought were extremely important, be it about our children or life in general and when confronted at a later date with follow up of said discussion I would be met with a blank stare and the inevitable “you never told me that”.
There’s no way in hell any of us will ever be able to say that TH didn’t confront KH about what she thought was going on with Kyron. And I’m not even suggesting that KH was a bad parent, I’m just sayin’ “we” will never know.
@Blink…”Is anyone willing to believe me now as to the fact that they have no idea the identity, at least as far as a probable cause warrant is concerned, of who Kyron was removed by?
B” I’m pretty sure that you know that I believe that as well at this point, as do a few others, having said that I have to add this, where is Kyron?
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
Nerd alert, here. I think it’s downright fascinating what LE is doing with the list of names. They are checking and cross-checking in what seems to be a thorough, systematic, procedural sort of way. I would love to see the master chart once all this information is compiled.
I am not discouraged by what appears to be a lack of identity of the suspect.
@BeeJay: if mcso paid you for your research, they’d need 10 less in manpower.
Re “The (soon be notorious) List”. Terri undershot the chaos by 190 adults.
I am appalled for these reasons, off top of my head:
1) any active pta worker knows every principal knows all-school letters sent by email fall well short of reaching all school families. I’ve never heard of an important school communication not also sent by USMail if email was also used for timeliness. No principalin our county would send this by email only.
2) if mcso is serious about ruling this list of attendees in or put, that goal is impossible to achieve without public publication of the entire list–available to all media. Privacy is a red herring, and I bet pulling the list comes from Supt of PPS or BOE. But, investigators need employers/spouses and so on to see the list and say: X told me he was stopping at his son’s SF but he’s not on the list; or, Y told me he didnt have time to see J’s project, but his name’s on the list–why was he untruthful. MCSO/PPS is making the same ‘ol mistake by withholding information not critical to prosecution but necessary to truly achieve their stated objective.
3) By omitting names of students (which after all are in the school directory and in many PPS cites on line (even pictures), clear MCSO is not seriously evaluating possible role of older behaviorally disordered students. After all, if Skyline erred on Kyron’s attendance and was inaccurate, could have erred in attendance accuracy (and/or failures to notify homes of any other student. The student list could say “To the directory, please add the following students…, and the following students were not in attendance 6/4….. Then a parent could say: “Oh, I believed J to be at school, but they say he was not there for attendance.” Or rather than publish the student list, each parent’s hard cy mailing coild report the status of their child that day.
I am concerned the system (PPS’ communication methods) and MCSO’s information black holes, do not work inKyron’s favor.
BTW BeeJay, I think a predatory pedophile would most likely be one with a history of moving place to place, even no previous arrests. Like a staff member or pps employee or subK who’d worked in 6 different places in last decade or something
So LE told the parents it was an isolated case, but it still could be a stranger? That is scary to me. I heard many people did transfer their kids.
Blink said
Is anyone willing to believe me now as to the fact that they have no idea the identity, at least as far as a probable cause warrant is concerned, of who Kyron was removed by?
B
Maybe I am grasping for hope, but the clause “at least as far as probable cause” I am hoping that they have some guesses. Is that right? Guesses, but no evidence to move on? At least suppositions?
I thought before Blink meant there was some description of him (based on someone’s statement) but they didn’t know who that person was. The witness could have been a little kid too.
Many prayers that this will all work out SOON.
What does everyone think of MCSO’s timeline today of 8am to noon? They only want to know every person at the school(or NOT at the school) on June 4th, between those times. I wonder why no later than noon? Is there proof positive that Kyron and his abductor were gone by noon-and how would that be known for sure?
We were thinking that Kyron was taken from Skyline by about 10am. So how does noon figure in? And how does it change our perceptions?
*****************************
Here’s Skyline schools schedule:
Lunch and Mid-day
recess schedule:
11:30 K-3rd recess
4-5th Lunch
11:45 6-8th grade Lunch
11:48 Transition between K-
3rd recess and 4-5th
Recess
12:15 All Students Return to Class
******************
Just in case we need it.
A small child would fit in a guitar case…
And… If the murder for hire plot was true (which I suspect could have a lot to do with Terri’s silence) could be that June 4 was the day it was planned. Could be Kaine was going to be lured out (to be killed) by Kyron having been taken.
Meanwhile, while Kaine was out trying to find Kyron, Kyron would already have been returned to Terri and they would be on the way to meet Desiree for Kyron’s pre-planned trip to Medford (that Kaine seemed to know nothing about).
Terri’s supposed “suspicious” 911 calls could have been planned in advance to make it appear something strange had been going on just prior to Kaine being suspiciously killed.
Terri would have “proof” to back up the horrible event any reminding them that she had reported suspicious cars and things like that over the past 6 months. She would also have proof that she didnt hurt Kaine as she would have been in the car driving with Kyron.
Kyron could have been tased or drugged (quiet and no mess to trace). If she or one of her good friends was caught trying to take him from school in this passed out state, those mini siezures would have helped to explain it away… considering she had a doctor appt scheduled for him that very same day.
Something could have gone wrong with quieting him… then, somebody had to get rid of him somehow and somewhere…
I do not think she sold him. If she had, I think the money (or drug) trail would have been found by now. I think it is really hard for the average unsophisticated criminal to hide money or drugs when the FBI and DEA are breathing down his/her neck in a missing child case.
How did it go down that day? I vacillate so much on the who and why.
Maybe TMH wasn’t involved at all.
Maybe she let the presumed predator/vampire in, and is otherwise “clean”.
Maybe she is the mastermind.
We know when the MFH sting failed, that potential TMH criminal transaction was likely reduced to a he said/she said.
Yet, there are some things that stick in my craw, and ring true for me.
I believe that LE believes TMH wanted KH dead, and that the MFH plot may somehow be connected to Kyron’s disappearance.
I believe there IS a Suspect Zero, and s/he was there that day and removed Kyron from Skyline.
I think if Suspect Zero was a strictly solo act, a random predator, TMH would have no fear of talking. She would have no real need for Houze. She would still be in the house on Sheltered Nook Rd. with baby K in her arms. There would be no 90 minute hole in her alibi, no question about her cell phone pings, and those “hateful” emails and embarassing sexts likely would have never seen the light of day.
JMO. I am so hoping that I am proved wrong.
Prayers for Kyron and all who love him.
Why would LE say 490 people have been identified and then ask for those 490 people to then varify everyone. They also ask to identify people on the list if they didn’t see them that day, trick question? I wonder if they have someone saying they saw something but didn’t really see something, as in trying to help set up something or someone up? Also, the time of 8-12, why did they expand that? Are they trying to pin point when someone returned to the school who had earlier left that morning or perhaps left at a later time?
But if they identified 490 people, then what good does it do to ask those 490 people to then identify themselves? hmmm maybe they are hoping to jog someones memory by planting a name of someone?
This just adds to all of the mystery. Someday all of this will make sense.
Blink!
Wow! They decided to push the big red button! I can not believe it…this gives me so much hope that he will be found.
Prayers for Kyron
PRIVATE
Blink,
Sammy says:
December 10, 2010 at 9:05 pm
I do have the screen captures of the list of names.
Would it be okay for me to post the list of names here for other Blinksters that may have missed getting it before it was removed by KPTV at lightening speed?
Is there a “Jake” on the list of names?
Sammy,
Even if we don’t get to see it, I am glad YOU have it. Let us know what we can do to help.
42.Sammy says:
December 10, 2010 at 9:05 pm
snip>
BLINK …
I do have the screen captures of the list of names.
Would it be okay for me to post the list of names here for other Blinksters that may have missed getting it before it was removed by KPTV at lightening speed?
The fliers..it has been mentioned a couple of times lately about contacting the website and they will send out fliers, stacks of fliers. It seemed off to me because you can go to the website and print them off.
Then I was thinking about the power of suggestion, and how someone might want us looking in a specific direction when we should be looking in another place. I guess you could call it “misdirection”
The emphasis has always been on electronic correspondence, such as e-mail, text, phones,and iirc KH has stated that about TH from the beginning.
So my thought is, if there is another person that is involved, and has kyron secreted away somewhere, and the person may be someone close to the family member who helped them and they wanted to correspond with each other. It would be silly to do it utilizing a electronic device, but to correspond with someone via the shipment of a big stack of fliers might be overlooked by law enforcement…just sayin…
damn, list of people that were at Skyline is gone from kgw and only this remains “(The list below was redacted for privacy purposes.)”
hope ppl cached/took screen shot of that list.
Apologies in advance, I do not Facebook. I did find a picture of a white pickup truck with a child in the bed on a “Michael Roten” search. Just wondering if anyone with FB can vett this.
http://www.pipl.com/search/?FirstName=michael&LastName=roten&City=Portland&State=OR&Country=US&CategoryID=2&Interface=1
Intel colleague and Horman family friend Michael G. Roten, was arrested last August on suspicion of menacing charges in Clackamas County the day after an Intel bag with a Sony computer, prescription Gucci glasses was taken from a vehicle on Country Club Rd. It is not known if the 2 incidents are related. Roten posted on Terri Horman’s facebook offering any help they could, a few days after Kyron’s disappearance was made public. – BOC Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered Sources: Terry Horman Hired Landscape Lover
Wasn’t it established ages ago that Terri’s parents refinanced their home for $350k? (Or the actual Horman home was refi’d?)
So, screen capture geniuses, was a scholl or pta-contracted landscaper, or one of his employees, on The List? (hint: RSE, ASS)???
@14. E-Rose. The only interesting thing on him I found last summer is he is a “biker” of sorts–Pres of Ducati club in Calif and many posts on biker sites (re how to repairs things, order parts, preferred bikes, etc–as I remember. ) So, he may have found his way to a local bikers hangout on Sauvie, perhaps. If I were mcso, I might have taken his pic in there, with others, and seen if he was a regular.
I did see the list of SF attendees and TH and minor child was mentioned. I guess she did have Kiara at the science fair that day. That alone clears up one thing that has bothered me.
In this article…
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html
…a bundle seen by sonar in water on Sauvie was actually “just” a rolled up rug weighted down with rocks. (In section “Search and Rescue Hub”.) I’m aware the sheriff (para. 11) said no physical evidence has been found; but it seemed possible a carpet found in that particular location might be related to Kyron’s disappearance? There are easier ways to dispose of a rug! However, I have no idea how many discarded rugs weighted down with rocks are usually found in the water there. Anyway, I hope it’s being analyzed.
You can see in the photo of BP’s houseboat…
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/
…outside the houseboat next door is what looks like a pink rug or towel tossed over a chair. Although I’m not referring to that actual item, the photo made me think that a rolled-up rug (a firmer, maybe piece of wall-to-wall carpet) would be a “good” way to transport a small child, or transfer a child from house to boat. Does anyone remember if volunteers were fixing up part of Skyline Elementary in May 2010? And if so, what clean-up or renovation was done? Just some random thoughts…
@cbickel: Oh, lordy! You know I’m on track with you. You gave me a laugh with your comment about your DH. And I will second that personally and would like to add the names of about a thousand women who would say the same! About important stuff, too. Across the years I’ve been tempted to tape record conversations or require signed statements. As to Kaine, he’s a busy guy. If his child were diagnosed and being treatment, at that point I would expect he’d have a vague notion of those details. Your comment:
“Here’s what I said…”I know there have been times when I’ve told my husband things that I thought were extremely important, be it about our children or life in general and when confronted at a later date with follow up of said discussion I would be met with a blank stare and the inevitable “you never told me that”.”
IF a credible source really did see Kyron standing near a truck with a man in it, why haven’t they put out a description of the man? This makes no sense at all.
cbickel says:
December 10, 2010 at 10:00 pm
@Nancy…”To me the issue is not whether or not TH took Kyron to the doctor. The issue is that she claims Kyron was having seizures/wandering, she told acquaintances at the school but did not bother to mention the seizures/wandering to his parents. Supposedly TH sent texts to Desiree daily, but said nothing about Kyron experiencing very serious physical problems???”
Did you read all of what I said? We don’t “know” anything really about what TH did or didn’t tell Kyron’s parent’s.
———————-
Yes, I read all of what you said, and the specific portion I commented on was in agreement with you, that TH taking Kyron to the doctor should not be an issue, since Desiree lives so far away.
@GraceintheHills
“I think if Suspect Zero was a strictly solo act, a random predator, TMH would have no fear of talking. She would have no real need for Houze. She would still be in the house on Sheltered Nook Rd. with baby K in her arms. There would be no 90 minute hole in her alibi, no question about her cell phone pings, and those “hateful” emails and embarassing sexts likely would have never seen the light of day.”
Very good and well said. She could bargain for just about any charge short of kidnapping and murder if she didn’t do it and cooperated. Couldn’t she simply get immunity if she had nothing to do with Kyron’s disappearance? The fact is: there was too much that had to be planned by Terri herself for almost any theory to work. She had motive(s) and all but a few seconds of opportunity.
I am curious (@ any recipient family) about the time email was sent out by Principal Keefer. Was it about the time of school release in Friday? That would be deliberative timing by a public school system in info mgmt mode amongst its parent/teacher body in the school. As opposed to, say, a weekday morning.
If Blink has no objection, I’ll answer some of the list questions. The list is in public domain now, and should be available pretty broadly through personal connections. It’s available in the S.E. states already. And, of course, the Skyline school community has it.
@Jan: I don’t see a “Jake” on the list.
@Rose: Not on the list: RS or ASS. I don’t know the names of the other employees or daylaborers used by RS Landscape Maintenance. Stensen was on the list. (Thanks for your kind comments about my work here. And, agreed about the PEDO profile, although those guys can be insanely determined. Emphasis on “insanely”.)
(BTW, Ducati club is yuppie stuff, not even biker wannabes. They “do lunch” at trendy restaurants on Sun mornings here)
TO ALL: In case you’re interested about other persons we’ve discussed:
ON THE LIST: Wendy F and husband; a male adult Kessinger; janitor BT; mother of Holm student; TH and baby K; others we know already because of their public statements.
NOT ON THE LIST: Any Pumala names; AV; others I mentioned just above; Kaine; DDS. Also: anyone else on the school grounds between 8 and noon whose name is not known to those who developed the list.
BTW: there is before and after school daycare in the school all the time. IDK staff names.
______________
@Whaazupwitchu: IIRC, Blink said MCSO has a “profile” NOT a “description”. HUGE difference. I support that statement with Blink’s later comment that MCSO doesn’t know who Ky left with.
@Al Miller: Lea Conner found a refi of TH’s parents’ home, recorded in Aug 2010, IIRC. Not for $350. Research the real estate records; house wouldn’t handle that size loan.
@caracara: We learned later that BP and his sister Ann had lived on the houseboat long ago; not recently (unless visiting??). Their stepfather Steve Harmon now lives there.
@chefjagcc
Thanks for pointing out that the guitar in the “Fact or Fiction” pic was a video one and not a real one!
@cbickel
Yes, I sure have noticed the broad scope of theories here!
————————-
Would a school science fair project involving a stun gun be allowed? or even legal? I haven’t researched Oregon law, but I know I’d have go to an adjacent state to buy one! There are liability issues, I’d think. It sounds more like an item a student would sneak in to show off — or an adult would bring in to lure kids. LE would have them. JMO.
On a more emotional note: I read this week that the tree at the Wall of Hope had ornaments with the names of Kaine, Ky and Kitty. I moped and through tears purchased an outdoor ornament and with outdoor paint put these names: Kyron, Kitty, and James (the forgotten child, which is why I wept). Hope it survives shipping and is actually hung on the tree.
TH claims to have waved goodbye to Kyron in the hallway outside his classroom at approximately 8:45 a.m., the very time Skyline students were assembling in their classrooms to break into groups to view the Science Fair.
Therefore, at approximately 8:45 a.m. the halls outside classrooms in particular should have been bustling with the approximately 500 people in attendance.
In order for TH to be cleared as a suspect in Kyron’s disappearance it would take only one credible witness to confirm her account of saying goodbye to Kyron in the hallway outside his classroom around 8:45 a.m. It defies logic that not one of these 500 people witnessed TH and Kyron walking toward his classroom and/or in the hallway outside it during that time frame.
I too think about Kyron every day-but Blink,respectfully do you believe it’s coincidence that there are so many inconsistencies in TH stories – that she put up a fuss about not taking a poly graph – that she refuses or cannot account for her whereabouts on 6/4 AND a good friend WHO is working close by cannot account for her whereabouts AT the same time- with the fact that her stepson, who she seemed to dislike and a husband whom she tried to hire someone to kill- and on top of that, her stepson is abducted by a stranger and she’s not involved? too many coincidences for me. There are no coincidences in life….I just keep trying to process this and it doesn’t add up
15.jan says:
December 11, 2010 at 2:08 am
Is there a “Jake” on the list of names?
@jan- You have asked about this “Jake” before, long ago. IIRC you have asked about him and his whereabouts on behalf of his family? Could you please “refresh” my memory about this guy? TIA.
IMHO – Perhaps LE is trying to rule someone in or out as a POI or suspect, or verify an alibi, or establish the whereabouts of certain person(s) via witnesses? 490 people!! That is a lot more than I had thought were there. How does a school justify advertising such an event with signs out front, in essence allowing the “general public” to attend, while being so horribly lax in security for these children during this event?! It makes me furious. IMOO PPS should have their a$$e$ sued for this, I find it inexcusable. Most certainly this is one of the things I am looking back on and I am indeed very surprised/shocked and I see that things need to be changed and/or addressed. Any SO/predator was presented with a perfect opportunity to commit this crime, much less someone that was possibly seeking revenge or involved in a pre-planned abduction for whatever reason(s).
@ppsmom : Thank you for a poignant, heartfelt post. Yes, we were planning on going to the wall. I will miss seeing you – again my condolences for your loss.
“Now, because of a tip from Dede Spicher, the LE is searching Cornelius Pass Road. Maybe they should head back to Jim Kelley’s house(which is off Cornelius Pass Road)where the white truck showed up on June 4th (Around 3pm and again at 2am) and check his sheds, cars, and outbuildings.” Does anyone know about this? It was posted http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/
Who is Jim Kelly?
Have we completely discounted the theory that this is an elaborate reality show set-up? In play – TH and KH and friends – DDS and MC. DY unaware but when she found out about it, wants her son back NOW and states:
1) TH has Kyron stashed
2) Kyron was “involved” and saw it all. This has always struck me as a strange thing to say, that Kryon was involved. How else would this little boy be “involved”. I do not believe “involved” would infer that Kyron was taken unwillingly, rather that he took part in something.
3) TH needs to “fully cooperate” with LE. (Note: LE at the time stated that TH WAS cooperating) but DY kept asking her to fully cooperate.
This would also explain:
1) DDS reactions and appearance, her smirks. Her tweet that she would do it all again
2) TH sitting quietly at her parents’ house
3) $350,000 retainer
4) Kyron wearing the CSI tee-shirt on June 4
5) MC supposedly coming back into their lives after so many years, although living just a few houses away
6) Racing cars on SI – one that fits description of red mustang
7) James being sent away prior to June 4
8) TH and KH going to the gym together, was it the next day, after Kyron’s disappearance? They were filmed by TV crews entering their vehicle, ignoring the press. Who does that? If my son was missing and I was caught in public by anyone in the press I would stop and plead with them to FIND him!!!
9) TH calling 911 when the MFH sting went down
Possibly LE has uncovered some rings, violence and things they wish they hadn’t in the course of finding Kyron.
Maybe in the course of this scheme, Kyron was placed into hands of someone who is now not cooperating… or maybe something happened and they now do not know his location, or things were uncovered so that they are no longer aware of how to make Kyron re-appear without implicating themselves.
Watch the original PC with this in mind. The very first time I watched this PC I thought they were all in knowledge of something. Even TY looks more calm and knowing than I think he would have if an abduction had occurred; compare his reaction to that of Staton.
The PC did not occur until several days after Kyron’s appearance.
It all seemed staged to me and I have not let that go.
TH is definitely someone that likes to be “on stage”.
Maybe she believed it was no longer feasible to body build compete and KH was giving her stress about spending money.
We see that she had an interest in crimes. Do you think she came up with this elaborate scheme to become famous and make tons of money? If she didn’t like Kyron, he would be the perfect scapegoat.
Jamie,
It is un-clear to me, WHERE -or- WHAT comment of mine you are responding to (?)
I have included below one of my most recent posts in which I am responding to Justice23 & MockingbirdSings posts in regards to “alleged detail planning” , the “presence of such planning” & the “time” to do such planning/ evidence trails.
Justice23 questions “@ least some evidence &/ or witness” trail should/could be “left” behind.
I likewise state, “We know they are shifting thru/ reading hundreds probably thousands of e-mails.” and that there is one “M”(ain) “S”(treet) “M”(edia)/ MSM, that has declared TMH using different names to post @ their site. (“KATU2 has declared TMH used different “names” posting on their site alone.”)
Just the sheer volume of e-mails to read through prior to Kyron’s disappearance has to be time consuming but now there is even MORE to read since, ” To this day, there are people “claiming” to be TMH on-line &/ or posting for her.”
LE has a mountain of “evidence” just in e-mails & they are hampered by NOT knowing exactly WHAT TMH did w/ her “free time” & w/ WHOM she was with prior to 06/04 because, “KH has stated many times he did NOT know WHAT she did during the day.”
LE has not only the Skyline School “time frame” of Kyron & TMH on 06/04 to re-construct but now also have to piece together (w/o TMH’s help) her prior daily movements & interactions w/others because, “She had A LOT of time to speak to anyone in her home, @ the gym, in public —jeez’ sitting drinking coffee to plan-ANYTHING.”
All of these avenues generate “hills” of possible “evidence” for LE/DA to process (ie.e-mails/texts, interviews, printed communications, phone numbers-both ‘regular’ & ‘bat’ -records etc etc). This possible “evidence” has & is being generated w/ Kyron’s disappearance, KH/MFH as well, ANY other investigations going on prior to his disappearance & since.
It stands to reason IF a person was intent on any &/ or : abducting a child; planning a MFH; & other illegal endeavors, it would be “done” in “private” -BUT- “Yes, you would think private/secret but hey, what better way to plan a MFH of your husband but in plain sight ?”
From the beginning Kyron’s case was unusual & it has continued to have many twists & turns but that doe NOT guarantee the case (or ANY case) HAS to leave a “trail”. Likewise, my stating, “I do not think a person needs to leave a paper trail literally or electronically to commit a crime, I just hope they would.”, concedes that “fact” BUT HOPES that there IS EVIDENCE literally -or- electronically to connect BACK to crime(s).
It is MY belief/ opinion , which cannot be backed up w/factual proof @ this time, that LE/DA DO have a MOUNTAIN of EVIDENCE. All of “it” is scattered & is time consuming to separate, connect, compile to get to a finished & ready case or cases.
LE/DA would prefer to have “found” Kyron while they “tie everything together” but for now they continue to wade through the 63 4-inch binders they have filled to date w/ information etc.
I hope I have “answered” your post as it was one of the most recent one of mine that had anything to do w/ “evidence”.
JMHO … to infinity & beyond FOR Kyron.
____________________________________
Jamie says:
December 10, 2010 at 6:21 pm
@ riverpearl; in regards to your comment about the lack of physical evidence. You talked about there not being a trail of emails, texts and phone calls. I do recall the sheriff stating there’s not a shred of physical evidence but does that mean there is no trail of electronic communication? As I’ve said in the past I’m a social worker so please forgive my ignorance of the law. What exactly is considered physical evidence?
______________________________________
riverpearl says:
December 9, 2010 at 2:41 pm
We know they are shifting thru/ reading hundreds probably thousands of e-mails. KATU@ has declared TMH used different “names” posting on their site alone. To this day, theire are people “claiming” to be TMH on-line &/ or posting for her.
KH has stated many times he did NOT know WHAT she did during the day. She had A LOT of time to speak to anyone in her home, @ the gym, in public —jeez’ sitting drinking coffee to plan-ANYTHING.
Yes, you would think private/secret but hey, what better way to plan a MFH of your husband but in plain sight ?
I do not think a person needs to leave a paper trail literally or electronically to commit a crime, I just hope they would.
JMHO … to infinity & beyond FOR Kyron.
______________________
justice23 says:
December 8, 2010 at 9:25 pm
MockingbirdSings says:
December 8, 2010 at 2:53 am
I don’t know which way Kyron left the school, but if the window of time is this short, and the result this successful, IMO, it has to have been a professional who really knew what he was doing. Also, IMO, a professional is not a threat to other children in the same way a SO/predator is. A pro would only target someone with a direct reason for doing so. What this means to me is that Terri sold him or gave him away to get rid of him or used him to try to get money in some way. She brought in the pro.
The professional Suspect Zero may be nobody we know at all, but Terri has to have had a connection to find him. A professional that Kyron knew would be an amazing, surprising connection to LE and to us.
————————————-
mockingbird … this makes a lot of sense. But as much as we’ve all talked about all the alleged “details” of the planning we suspect may have gone into all of this before Ky actually disappeared if in fact TMH is involved and/or responsible, and most especially if there was some kind of “professional” person involved, what I want to know is where all this “planning” would’ve taken place???
If TMH had planned such an elaborate scheme ahead of time as many speculate, one would think this would take an awful lot of time/effort to plan, not to mention secret meetings/conversations taking place with whoever “Suspect Zero” and/or his cohorts are. That being said, why does there appear to be almost no physical evidence then aside of only a possible “description” of someone w/no name? Wouldn’t TMH have had to have met this person(s) in person to discuss the details of what was going to go down, where, when, how and what her role would be in order for no mistakes to be made?
So … assuming this is the case, wouldn’t there be at least some evidence or witness trail left behind of all the groundwork leading up to the alleged plan? I would think so but then where is all that evidence? Where are the phone calls, the texts, the e-mails, the IM’s, the chat session logs, witnesses who may have witnessed any meetings w/TMH and anyone interesting/suspicious at peculiar places and/or times of day, etc that any of this actually happened? I really don’t know how so much planning could go into something like this w/o at least some sort of interaction between TMH and whoever the bad guy(s) actually might be. Too risky to just wing it I would think.
Nefarious conversations and behavior are normally done behind closed doors, private places and/or busy places where the guilty don’t think they will be heard/seen by anyone who would find their behavior strange … they just kind of blend in. In regard to the alleged MFH plot for Kaine, where would someone go to look for such a person to carry out such a thing? I would think they would have to go online, call/text someone, or meet someone in person to set such a plan in motion, even if she already knew the person. Would a gym be a “safe” place to discuss such things? A school parking lot? Your own home when your husband is at work and kids are in school? How was this alleged MFH plot even set up to begin with? Same w/Ky if there was a plan to disappear him and have a 3rd party responsible for it.
Wouldn’t there be trails of all of this on her computer, phone, friends talking, etc? What about library computers? Is it possible TMH accessed the public library at some point for the MFH plot and/or plan to get rid of Ky thinking she would be anonymous there? I know it’s happened in other crimes and I don’t recall anyone ever mentioning video surveillence from any Portland library was ever looked into to see if maybe TMH had gone to one and gotten on any of their library computers. I know if I was thinking even thinking about doing anything stupid like trying to disappear anyone, and needed information or potential contacts for such, I would never be dumb enough to use my own computer or any of my friends … the more anonymous you can make yourself w/no trace back to you the better and libraries can often be very anonymous if you know how to do it right. TMH doesn’t strike me as a major mastermind, but maybe someone else that was helped her in what and what not to do?
29.Idahogal says:
December 11, 2010 at 10:50 am
15.jan says:
December 11, 2010 at 2:08 am
Is there a “Jake” on the list of names?
@jan- You have asked about this “Jake” before, long ago. IIRC you have asked about him and his whereabouts on behalf of his family? Could you please “refresh” my memory about this guy? TIA.
*******************************
Yes, please refresh mine too.
@Sammy: Thanks for the links to the photos. One thing that I found interesting is the one linked below where TMH first signed up on FB and it states her status is “Single”. Oh sure, it was probably before she really got it set up but it makes me go hmmm.
A few pics after this one is her “tagged.com” page. She signed up for that in 2008, prior to signing up on FB. She has “Burlington, OR” listed as location. Hmmmm.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/Kyron%20Related%20-%20Random/?action=view¤t=gymfromwebsite.jpg#!oZZ12QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs160.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft166%2Fubrmel%2FKyron%2520Related%2520-%2520Random%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dterrimyspace.jpg
Blink: maybe you’re the one who emailed the list to Klaas. Anywho, if you’ll permit it here, she posted the article and list. Instructions must be followed: you must copy the article and paste it into a Word document in order to see the list. This is Klaas’ post at SM:
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #37 12/5/10 -
« Reply #371 on: December 11, 2010, 10:51:35 AM »
I was emailed the list of names. I don’t want to post the list in the forum but for those that want to save it the names are at this link. If you copy and paste this article you can see all the names easier. Thanks to the person who emailed it to me:
http://www.incitynews.net/portland/2010/12/list-of-names-sent-to-parents-in-kyron-case/
For anyone who wants to play with the list and Skyline staff names, go to Puzzler’s 11:14 am today post at SM:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9000.380
You make a very good “what if” timeline…
Will have to ponder further.
JMHO
__________________________
rollermonkey says:
December 10, 2010 at 11:40 pm
A small child would fit in a guitar case…
And… If the murder for hire plot was true (which I suspect could have a lot to do with Terri’s silence) could be that June 4 was the day it was planned. Could be Kaine was going to be lured out (to be killed) by Kyron having been taken.
Meanwhile, while Kaine was out trying to find Kyron, Kyron would already have been returned to Terri and they would be on the way to meet Desiree for Kyron’s pre-planned trip to Medford (that Kaine seemed to know nothing about).
Terri’s supposed “suspicious” 911 calls could have been planned in advance to make it appear something strange had been going on just prior to Kaine being suspiciously killed.
Terri would have “proof” to back up the horrible event any reminding them that she had reported suspicious cars and things like that over the past 6 months. She would also have proof that she didnt hurt Kaine as she would have been in the car driving with Kyron.
Kyron could have been tased or drugged (quiet and no mess to trace). If she or one of her good friends was caught trying to take him from school in this passed out state, those mini siezures would have helped to explain it away… considering she had a doctor appt scheduled for him that very same day.
Something could have gone wrong with quieting him… then, somebody had to get rid of him somehow and somewhere…
48.beejay says:
December 10, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Is anyone willing to believe me now as to the fact that they have no idea the identity, at least as far as a probable cause warrant is concerned, of who Kyron was removed by?
B
________________________________
Beejay says, “And it’s been a long time since June 4. One thing, though, is it makes it seem like a parent or staffer is being looked into. And since everyone is already aware that Terri is, it looks like they’re looking at another “one of us”–the tight little Skyline school community, where everybody knows everybody.
************************
@Beejay: I agree with you. I have always felt the person who took Kyron had to be familiar with Skyline’s layout and routine, however, I would not rule out any delivery personnel or other contractors who may not have been “regulars” there.
beejay says:
December 11, 2010 at 10:30 am
On a more emotional note: I read this week that the tree at the Wall of Hope had ornaments with the names of Kaine, Ky and Kitty.
————————————-
Yes, so emotional. The tree also has a Toy Story (which Kyron loved) ornament at the top and bow in the shape of a K.
BLINK–are you going to let “THE LIST” be posted -or- ?
Thank you in advance.
I’m so many pages behind in reading but just had to say this regarding the newest media releases and Staton’s comments:
It is my personal belief, based solely on instincts and reasoning, that Staton and LE knows much more than they are letting on. I believe an important witness has come forward and they do not under any circumstances want this released to the public or the perpetrators.
IMO Staton’s words were measured and intentional. They weren’t lies, but they weren’t full truths either. Does LE regret the missing six hours? Yes. But, I believe they’ve made up for that time and are hot on the heels of those involved in Kyrons dissappearence.
No brick wall has been met at this point. They are progressing.
I hope hope hope Kyron will be found but even if he is not, I believe there will be convictions.
@Nancy…I just re-read what I wrote to you and I must apoligize for the “tone” I used! I didn’t mean it to read so nasty!! lol Thanks for not tearin’ me a new ….well you know!
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
27.Nancy says:
December 11, 2010 at 10:48 am
TH claims to have waved goodbye to Kyron in the hallway outside his classroom at approximately 8:45 a.m., the very time Skyline students were assembling in their classrooms to break into groups to view the Science Fair.
Therefore, at approximately 8:45 a.m. the halls outside classrooms in particular should have been bustling with the approximately 500 people in attendance.
In order for TH to be cleared as a suspect in Kyron’s disappearance it would take only one credible witness to confirm her account of saying goodbye to Kyron in the hallway outside his classroom around 8:45 a.m. It defies logic that not one of these 500 people witnessed TH and Kyron walking toward his classroom and/or in the hallway outside it during that time frame.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Nancy, excellent observation! If TMH’s account is true, witnesses should place her in that hallway, waving goodbye, and exiting the building. Perhaps, witnesses have already done so.
How does a stranger, with ALL those people around, manage to lure Kyron out of the building?
My instincts are telling me Suspect Zero is someone Kyron knew. I think it *could* have been another parent, a school worker, or one of TMH/KH’s friends. I think that list of people, which must have taken quite a while to compile, is very important. If Suspect Zero is on the list, I would think s/he is getting nervous right about now. Perhaps the list was generated, in part, for just that purpose.
This has been hard to find, off and on, at least for me. If you want the 2009-2010 parent/student handbook go to the link below. You can see things like the attendance policies and procedures (on pg. 3; attendance supposed to be taken twice daily for grades K-5); absences reporting requirements; alternative transportation notification; school day schedule. Lots of stuff. (Tells what SHOULD have taken place on June 4, 2010):
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/Parentand_StudentHandbook_2010-11.pdf
Idahogal-
Glad to see you back & posting.
Yup, I totally agree w/ PPS “problems”.
The “out” they (PPS) IMO are clinging to is children were NOT to be left/ dropped off -alone-EVER BEFORE 8:35am because, as stated in Parent/ Student Handbook, there was not staff to oversee student(s).
But with ALL these “changing” segments of SF viewing:
(1) SF open between 8-10am, open to parent(s) &/ or public
(2) Students w/ parents 8-8:45am
(3) Students in small groups touring w/ teachers -or- volunteers 8:45-10:00am
(4) Possible student(s) w/ parent(s) even during “small groups” ?
To me, these “segments” could be confusing to know who is w/ who & where any child could be “roaming/wandering” @ certain times. Because IF a student(s) came to school w/ parent(s), did the student(s) stay the “entire” time w/ parent(s0 -or- were they off w/ friends etc ? How “strict” were the “rules” & “time” segments adhered to ? How “forceful” were the “rules” stated ?
Talk about a can of worms —-People coming & going w/o accountability.
Looking back, may be the shocking revelation that a child/ student has not “disappeared” before in a PPS.
JMHO … to infinity & beyond FOR Kyron.
_______________
Idahogal says:
December 11, 2010 at 10:50 am
… IMHO – Perhaps LE is trying to rule someone in or out as a POI or suspect, or verify an alibi, or establish the whereabouts of certain person(s) via witnesses? 490 people!! That is a lot more than I had thought were there. How does a school justify advertising such an event with signs out front, in essence allowing the “general public” to attend, while being so horribly lax in security for these children during this event?! It makes me furious. IMOO PPS should have their a$$e$ sued for this, I find it inexcusable. Most certainly this is one of the things I am looking back on and I am indeed very surprised/shocked and I see that things need to be changed and/or addressed. Any SO/predator was presented with a perfect opportunity to commit this crime, much less someone that was possibly seeking revenge or involved in a pre-planned abduction for whatever reason(s).
Dee says:
December 10, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Welcome back, Dee! I’ve missed seeing you and reading your posts here.
30.familythx says:
December 11, 2010 at 11:01 am
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@familythx: I may not be able to join all of you up there, but I will be there with you in spirit.
Prayers for Kyron and all who love him.
AAAKKKKK. MY GOOF. The link I gave is to a 2009-2010 webpage, but they’ve already changed the school handbook. The link I gave is for THIS year’s.
Sorry.