Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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On the list: Hernandez-Avalos/Solis, Maria
on peoplesmart there is a Maria Teresa MEJIA a/k/a Maria Mejia-Hernandez
Coincidence? or does she know our Elsy?
http://www.peoplesmart.com/psp.aspx?_act=detail&_tab=PeopleSmart&_sea=PeopleByName&FirstName=maria&LastName=hernandes-Avalos&City=portland&State=OR&PageNumber=1&PageSize=50&_st=PeopleByName&NumResults=178&pid=001116977687&pfn=Maria&pln=Mejia&pc=Portland&ps=OR
What do we think it means that the time the task force is interested in is 8-12?
1) ANY INDIVIDUAL (to include a minor child), other than a Skyline Student, who you have reason to believe was on campus between 8-12 on June 4 but is not on the list.
2) ANY INDIVIDUAL who is on the list but who you have reason to believe was not on campus during that time.
Since minor child is included with TH on the list, then could they be looking for #2 in regards to Kiara. I hate to even bring this up as we thought we finally had something answered, but what if people say they saw TH but NO she did not have the baby with her. Could that be one of the things they are looking for?
Do they think someone left the school and came back? Kind of seems like it. If that is the case, wouldn’t a parent kind of stick out after 10? And why would a parent come back by 12? Then the focus seems to lean towards the staff.
I should have stated that the name I entered was:
MARIA HERNANDEZ-AVALOS
23.enumclawrose says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 11, 2010 at 11:58 pm
On the list: Hernandez-Avalos/Solis, Maria
on peoplesmart there is a Maria Teresa MEJIA a/k/a Maria Mejia-Hernandez
Coincidence? or does she know our Elsy?
http://www.peoplesmart.com/psp.aspx?_act=detail&_tab=PeopleSmart&_sea=PeopleByName&FirstName=maria&LastName=hernandes-Avalos&City=portland&State=OR&PageNumber=1&PageSize=50&_st=PeopleByName&NumResults=178&pid=001116977687&pfn
@ Barista says:
December 11, 2010 at 5:03 pm
@beejay says:
December 11, 2010 at 10:12 am
Thanks
@Idahogal says:
December 11, 2010 at 10:50 am
Hearsay information surfaced that was bothersome enough that authorities notified. No follow-up, so assuming hearsay is unreliable.
If this is far-fetched, please excuse:
Did LS / RS connections ever live in North OR Coast area or Ashland, Oregon (about 3 years ago) or have relatives, friends, one perhaps named Jake?
Story told that abusive offender was released after 3 years around time Ky went missing. Claims this person could have connections.
Even if hearsay, authorities notified.
@8. Amy’s Sister said “perverts can become obsessed with a particular victim” ( so payment rather than simple abduction is suggested).
Who in Kyron’s penumbra (cloud of contacts) could have developed such an obsession so that TH was approached with an offer? And why not approach one of the parents?
@13. “Yes I agree” B.
This rules out a random predator unconnected to Kyron’s cloud of acquaintances.
Kimberly and Beejay, aka super sleuths, did we ever discuss the Ubaldo here?
http://www.leg.state.or.us/thatcher/ICElistNov08.pdf
1120 YAMH SANCHEZ UBALDO 12306654 7/4/1976 Rape OSP
***
Birthdate 7-4-1976.… I know I have seen that date before other than….
.The United States Bicentennial was a series of celebrations and observances during the mid-1970s that paid tribute to the historical events leading up to the creation of the United States as an independent republic. The Bicentennial culminated on Sunday, July 4, 1976, with the 200th anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence.
I read the comments on Kgw.com’s report on the letter and list to Skyline Parents. I noticed one, and after reading it a few times, I am still not sure what the person means by stating “Look at the #2 item on their list.” The #2 item on the list?? Is the writer referring to the 2nd name on the attendance list? Or, is the writer referring to the NO. 2 on the letter, which reads “That you are calling in response to the Skyline School Project.”
The posted comment I question is as follows:
“This isn’t abstract. This is actually quite important and should have been a primary part of the investigation right after he went missing. They ARE verifying the alibis of those 2-3 people you’re referring to. Look at the #2 item on their list. They are flat out asking if someone is lying about their alibi as in, someone wasn’t at the school when they said they were. I get that you’re angry but you need to read into what they are trying to ask people without coming out and, you know, saying… They can’t walk people into saying someone is lying…”
If I can be at the lunch meeting, someone please grab me from wandering around the restaurant aimlessly. I’m a medium build, graying female. Rather than a rose in my lapel, I’ll be wearing a white neckscarf with appliques of a bluejay (the bird). (“B. Jay”)
Not at all sure I can be there at the designated time, since I have several travel companions and have to accommodate to their fluid schedules. If any are with me at lunch date, they’ll be happy to sit separately if anyone wishes. One is bilingual (spanish, english) in case you need any documents translated. She’ll be with me most of the time. The huge guy is a trusted friend, retired fed agent, and “personal bodyguard”. (He’s harmless)
I have an electronic device I’m trying to master as my lifeline to BOC, but I’m iffy on it. So, everyone have a wonderful holiday with your families.
After today, te veo en el otro lado!!
Oh, Eddie is the Youngs’ dog. I found it.
@beejay – looking forward to meeting you and your friends. I have an idea for getting us all together that you will recognize.
“I did count,and only came up with 213 names, not 490. Could someone shed some light on why that would be? Thanks”
Because the slightly less than 300 students were left off.
@amychika: Regarding the emails sent by TH that expresed extreme hatred of Kyron, Desiree stated in a press conference that LE had shown them to her and Kaine.
@MidWest Mom …
Gonzalez, Teresa Anna and Hernandez-Avalos / Solis, Maria
~~~
nothing else pops out.
@ Amy’s Sister says:
December 11, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Thanks so much,
I always look forward to seeing your words here. You always bring such heart and soul to your posts.
(I suspect that you’ve got some “gifts,” if you know what I mean?) I love that BOC is very cerebral, but I give a lot of credence to intuition too. I always look for your “feelings” in your posts. Something tells me that you are going to be spot on, when all is said and done. Thanks for all your hard work here!!
@39.Whaazupwitchu says:
December 11, 2010 at 8:41 pm
TO who has access to the list of names who were at Skyline on June 4th
not meaning to be racist, but are there any Hispanic names there?
—–
I have the same list that was posted with the link that is missing some names. And yes there are some surnames of Hispanic descent. Although I live in the area, it is probably well known that Skyline probalby isn’t the most diverse school in the area. The homes are up in the hills with a view unlike where I live on flat land in Beaverton with no nice scenic view of the valley.
justice4kyron says:
December 11, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Could you please re-post the link to names? Only a few letters of some names are visible even if cut & pasted.
Thanks!
Prayers for Kyron.
——————————————————————–
J4K …
You probably already have the link by now.
But just in case you’re still looking – this link takes you right to the list of names (just scroll to the bottom of the page – no copy/paste required)
http://www.incitynews.net/portland/2010/12/list-of-names-sent-to-parents-in-kyron-case/
@8.beejay says:
December 12, 2010 at 9:58 am
If I can be at the lunch meeting, someone please grab me from wandering around the restaurant aimlessly. I’m a medium build, graying female. Rather than a rose in my lapel, I’ll be wearing a white neckscarf with appliques of a bluejay (the bird). (“B. Jay”)
Not at all sure I can be there at the designated time, since I have several travel companions and have to accommodate to their fluid schedules. If any are with me at lunch date, they’ll be happy to sit separately if anyone wishes. One is bilingual (spanish, english) in case you need any documents translated. She’ll be with me most of the time. The huge guy is a trusted friend, retired fed agent, and “personal bodyguard”. (He’s harmless)
I have an electronic device I’m trying to master as my lifeline to BOC, but I’m iffy on it. So, everyone have a wonderful holiday with your families.
After today, te veo en el otro lado!!
——————-
I hope to meet you! Well my greys are covered up by hair dye. But I think I may try to wear my pink Minnie Baseball cap.
@Ode: I don’t recall discussing your Ubaldo. Enumclawrose might.
____________________
@PDX: 213 names represents all visitors, minor children who were not Skyline K8 students, and (apparently) Skyline staff. To reach 490: add all Skyline K8 students who were present on June 4. They were intentionally omitted from the list.
____________________
@Enumclawrose: Of course, they could be looking for everyone to cast their vote as to who saw/didn’t see Kitty there. Jeez. As to the expanded timeframe, I did see one volunteer (parent?) say she had signed up (in front office I believe) because she planned to be there after the 10am visitors-over time. And maybe just to net more info they want everyone who was there after 10 (staff were; they’re on the list) to say who they saw/didn’t see in that expanded timeframe.
Maybe somebody came back; maybe somebody showed up after the approx. 9:45 departure of Ky and was seen; maybe somebody who should’ve been there after 9:45 and WASN’T needs to be identified. So many possibilities. I can’t believe this is a final tying up of loose ends; looks like a continued investigation to me.
______________________
@MockingbirdSings: this is my last day I will reliably be reading at BOC before the lunch date. That’s why I said how to scoop me up out of the crowd. I have this notepad type computer thingie, but jeez, I’m an idiot with these new devices. Also, I’m forced to work around several others’ schedules to accomplish what I need their help doing; so I won’t know till last minute what my schedule will be. I have their help through their graciousness. Hope to see you!
__________________
About the link to the list that I posted above (courtesy of Klaas at SM): it’s working for me. You have to follow the instructions to copy the article, paste it into your word processor in order to see the complete list.
@Zeus—Thanks for the info that the family was into CSI—I recall taking our boys to Universal Studios years ago and you could get any size shirt for any show. Oh, the irony…indeed.
FWIW: The timeline revisions are intriguing. It would seem like a daunting task to verify so many different “stories” and look for threads that might lead to Ky. Going all the way back to the school, the SF, and the cell pinging from SI—all seem like they are spinning their wheels. However, I can see that rechecking stories, they’ll find some that changed. Knowing what they now know about the Horman household, they have a better idea of who knew whom. Who introduced who to whom. Who had the opp, the motive, the means to take Ky. IMO, LE is cleaning up details they and they alone know. Anyone can seem guilty, but facts speak for themselves. (Thinking Dragnet Sgt. Friday…Just the facts, ma’am). Any time, now. Praying for the resolution to this case.
Further to List of Names Sent to Skyline Parents
In the for-what-it’s-worth category:
@ GraceintheHills says:
December 11, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Beejay says it makes it seem like a parent or staffer is being looked into.
@ Blink: “I will not read there (CL) under any circumstances. I would find more credibility in restroom graffiti.
B”
I know Blink does not like Craigslist, but July postings (around 7/12, 7/13) stick in my craw just now–poster insisted that one Skyline person at school that day had not responded to original MSCO request for info, claims this person is awol.
Likely same poster also commented on many Skyline website photos of boys with glasses. IIRC seemed to have it out for school/PPS protecting someone? Saved some links but text gone.
CL stuff went on and on. with obvious ax to grind. I ignored following Blink’s credibility advice, so take with a grain of salt.
Below sample CL post around 8/13?:
“Rumor has it that a person working at the Skyline school may have confessed and police either don’t take it seriously or want to cover it up as part of the Portland jobs saving program for union public employees and as a strange coincidence one of the main Mexican drug lords of Portland who runs the Marijuana “gardeners” who harvest and distribute the Oregon crop including along skylkine blvd and the west slope areas happens by coincidence to have the name “Caesar Chavez”. Chavez maybe the dude that gave the city commissioners including the Mayor and Amanda the $138,000 walking around money in exchange for renaming 39Th street after Caesar himself. Caesar is a prime suspect because he is most likely the one to kidnap Karon and get out to Forest Grove or to Guadalupe Mexico with a return cash shipment going across the Calexico border. Was it a dope dealing teacher who confessed or a typical Portland public schools pedophile? Look at the Oregonians map of Terri Horman’s truck movements the hours after kyron was lost and figure out how or where she would have disposed or dispatched kryon with so many stops. Looks like she had a drug distribution route of her own and that was getting the Mexican drug lords angry. Her truck pathway crosses the Caesar Chavez drug delivery routes into Beaverton. No wonder the father is practicing shooting his gun off frequently . He wants to be ready if the gang turns up at his isolated home in the country there. Looking at the Oregonian map diagram , it does not seem that Terri had much time to do anything other than go to all those places …and why two separate Fred Meyer parking lots? That is what drug delivery people do . Hell I meet people at Fred Meyer parking lots to exchange money for craigslist sale goods too! It still seems Terri Horman was in a hurry to dump the kid at the school and then go back to her jobless schedule where she could amass millions of dollars in cash she kept in the freezer and under the mattress for all practical purposes $350,000 it that went to an attorney to represent her faster most people can wink she got that money. So the father is furious that she took money that could have gone to pay the ransom to Caesar Chavez good friend of Adam Smith and that left kryon in Forest Grove or Guadalajara Guadalupe which is why so many people close to the investigation say they know kyron is still alive? Have you looked at the car the Terri / the hormans were driving? a big open pick up. What for? Marijana Bud delivery under a tarp on occasions? The stuff grown up along skyline is called “Oregon” and is prized on the east coast as a high potent type of marijuana. Much of it is grown in basements and not just outside the homes . The police should be doing an electric/ water check of usage up in that area including the Horman home to see if they had irrigation or not for cultivation. Caesar Chavez , now that he has a street named after him can never be arrested! pay back he gets. He had been deported for various crimes in the past up to 20 times. He just comes back on his Cessna into Hillsboro airport registered in someone else’s name. Kyron could have gone by the same plane or by money truck across the border.
How come you never heard about this in the local news media: Skyline School was one of the portland public schools teaching sex education starting in kindergarten that the school hires these complete perverts to teach and that teacher maybe the one who confessed to something to do with Kyron.
@Ode: Always go to the link. I didn’t before I answered you about your Ubaldo Sanchez. I thought his name included YAMH. Went back to your link; his conviction was in Yamhill County. So, MockingbirdSings on Sept 15 at 5:09pm brought up your guy. Go to this link and scroll down to her post. (I imagine from a 2008 ICE roster he’s either still locked up or deported. Although, he might have returned.) Sorry, that’s all I can point you to.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/comment-page-11/#comments
Skyline Parent…having said all that if I had children and after reading BOC for the last few months I would be tempted to outfit them with GPS (without them knowing of course) My hypocrisy has no shame!!
Beejay, Mockingbird, TBZ, et al, looking forward to next weekend. I’ll be the one in the heaviest jacket with the I’m-not-from-here umbrella.
@puzzled says:
December 11, 2010 at 2:57 pm
saw somewhere in my news search this AM that a blue container has been seen floating on/near SI and SAR were headed that way. Went back to find and post link … it’s gone. So don’t know if story is true or not.
——————————————-
Whoa!!!!! I’ll keep searching for the link. There’s been a lot of flooding here the past few days so anything could wash up.
Amy’s Sister says:
December 11, 2010 at 2:03 pm
KGW.com Kaine Horman & Desiree Young 8/27/2010 Part 2;
http://www.kgw.com/video?id=101688128&sec=547987
Thinking about this….
Kyron was out by the truck, possibly with someone else (besides Terri, maybe Dede) was in it. The timing of this being witnessed indicates it contradicts the timeling Terri put forth to LE.
Desiree points out the Kyron saw it all, even played a part in ‘it’. She indicates ‘people’ helped Terri, not a person, multiple persons.
The witness is very credible, which means most likely an adult.
Desiree essentially confirms Terri’s timeline is bogus, Kaines truck was in the parking lot with another adult in or near it, something went down and Ky witnessed the entire thing, and multiple people are involved.
Kaine quickly shuts the conversation down. Any theory put forth should involve these facts if we are to believe what LE shared with Desiree is true.
**************************************************************
Honestly, in reading Amy’s Sister’s details here, something just recently hit me. Okay, bear with me and be gentle because I’m about to put a possibility out here that will probably not be popular and have me laughed right off BOC for mths to come so please be gentle, k? It will seem “conspiratorial” for sure, but there has always been something regarding Kaine’s Intel memo (specifically addressing “legal”) to all his employees right off the bat that has made me question certain things. Now along with these comments from Amy’s Sister above, I am seriously wondering if maybe these things specifically, i.e. “Something went down and Kyron saw it all”, “Terri’s timeline is bogus”, “Multiple people are involved”, (witness is credible, likely an adult) and “Kaine quickly shuts the conversation down” point to something involving some kind of int’l spy ring scenario involving employees past/present from Intel. I only say this because it seems whoever planned/carried it all out really knew what they were doing because we are 6 mths in and still no arrests and the case on some levels seems to have MCSO baffled and thrown off guard.
Okay, before y’all throw tomatoes at me, just think about it for a minute. All these things above, coupled with Stanton’s earlier comments of, “we will think back on it later and question some things”, “we know things we wished we didn’t know” and “some things will surprise you (us)”, I am really starting to wonder if there isn’t/wasn’t something potentially hinky/illegal going on involving possible Intel information/knowledge/technology that TMH was somehow involved in, TMH/Kaine both blackmailed regarding, or something of the sort. Maybe Kyron overheard or saw something as well and was ready to tell DY and TY on his next visit to Medford and TMH and/or bad accomplices were aware of that. I remember reading awhile ago that MCSO had answered a question about where leads had been coming in from and they admitted there were leads from all over the world (international connection?). And I know that Intel does in fact sometimes work on very sensitive gov’t-related projects … technology and information that I’m sure would be worth a lot of money to some roque person, group or country w/less than positive intentions. Or to a precarious, greedy, narcissistic red-headed step-mom who wanted it all but didn’t know how to get it on her own.
Recently, bloggers have seemed to be looking more into Becky from Intel that was connected to Kaine, the one who wrote the first PR, who seemed to be sticking up for Kaine, etc. It was acknowledged later that not long after the investigation had started that she was transferred to Intel in CA. Don’t have a link at the moment on that, but I know I rememered reading it. Kaine’s faster than lightning memo to his employees at Intel made the red siren go off immediately. A little odd IMO because who even thinks about addressing work-related issues and their employees in a memo when your only son has just gone missing?! That is … unless there was some sort of serious informational leak or something regarding serious government-related company secrets that had just gotten into the wrong hands along with a potential kidnapping somehow tied into it that the company and/or it’s employees wanted to keep under wraps?
The FBI and other curious far-reaching agencies were called in rather early IIRC. The Dept of Justice was the one that really got my attention personally. What did that have to do with Ky’s disappearance specifically? Is it possible this all actually ties into Intel somehow and that’s the part that will maybe surprise us? The part that we might be shocked about and that we’ll look back on later and question? Is that why Kaine was so quick to write a memo (damage control?), why Becky was so quick to come out of the woodwork appearing in Kaine’s defense? Was the potentially “bad people” and “illegal and questionable activities” we have all suspected TMH of at some point related to her selling sensitive company information from Intel? Was that possibly part of the motive for the alleged MFH plot? Maybe someone else wanted Kaine gone as well and TMH was somehow in on conspiring to help make that happen? I know this all sounds crazy and I myself am not even sure I believe it, but like all of us, the elusive truth escapes me, but this would potentially tie into so many of the other unanswered questions and things that “don’t make sense” that has driven us all off the deep end and fried our brains for the past 6 mths. An Intel connection somehow …. fact or fiction? Okay … the tomato throwing may now begin … go ahead …. I’m ready.
I am interested in reading minds. Wish I could.
One thing that I wonder about is: what was the one thing that sent TH over the edge of the cliff — that made her decide to hire Houze?
And, why head straight for such a big time hot shot lawyer?
Apparently she was referred to the top defense lawyer in Oregon– by someone who used his services and knew his reputation, either as a satisfied former client of Houze, or as someone who just knew about the guy in general terms? Why Houze? Houze living on the planet does not mean that other lawyers in Oregon are incompetent.
In most cases, I will guess that a person who has no funds to pay for a top defense attorney is not going to call that defense attorney first — other lawyers will be contacted first?
So…TH has someone refer her to Houze. Houze is the Big Dawg.
Why did he take her case?
I read this Oregonian article 12/08 & found it interesting because the “fake” business used to launder money was/called “Portland Garden Supply LLC”. I realized the “ethnic group” is wrong but this “operation” shows what many of us have questioned about “all those” businesses RS/LS, family & Associates are involved in.
“Four Portland-area men charged with running marijuana operation, laundering money through Forest Grove business”
“Members of Portland’s Drugs and Vice Division, the Special Emergency Reaction Team and a regional drug interdiction task force on Tuesday raided about eight addresses in Multnomah, Washington and Clackamas counties.”
“Law enforcement said the “Portland Garden Supply” store in Forest Grove was little more than a location where delivery trucks would come to drop off grow equipment.”
“Authorities suspect the men were producing the marijuana in Oregon for sale elsewhere, possibly on the East Coast where pot can be sold for up to $8,000 per pound, versus $3,000 a pound here. Law enforcement has identified other suspects and expect further arrests.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/forest-grove/index.ssf/2010/12/two_portland-area_men_charged_with_running_marijuana_operation_laundering_money_through_forest_grove.html
29.skyline parent says:
December 11, 2010 at 6:42 pm
Thank you, Lizzygoat. When I say it, it just sounds defensive, so I’m glad you said it. I’m actually VERY proud and happy that Skyline has not succumbed the pressure to turn into a prison.
*****************
As the mom of a third grader I’d like to agree. Our Harvest Party is always great fun with lots of kids playing games and parents all over and the older siblings just outside the gym playing basketball. While there, I recognize I am responsible for my child, not the school, as the festival is after hours.
Of course, during school hours the school is responsible but I don’t feel the need for camera monitering. Just common sense that adults shouldn’t be wandering the halls who don’t have volunteer badges or are well known family members of students.
Moving forward, all newly built schools should have a lot of exterior windows and the main entrance doors should lead directly past the office with interior windows facing those doors so everyone coming and going can be seen… lots of exposure.
Our principal is a common fixture throughout the school walking the halls, monitering the parking lot, and visiting classrooms.
The only thing Skyline/Ms Porter could have done differently, assuming she didn’t already do this, is take attendance at 8:45 then again at 10:00. If Kyron had in fact gone missing during that time I’m hoping that she firmly considered it to be an excused absence and that he was with his stepmom. The fact that she’s still teaching tells me her actions were in all likelihood appropriate.
Tanner’s interview is the only thing that makes me go “hmmm” but for some reason I didn’t totally buy what he had to say.
Oh, another thing Skyline could have done differently was ensure that all non volunteering parents and visitors were no longer on site when school officially started at 8:45 so the school could have more control over the welfare of the students. Again, I’d like to assume they did do this.
Even if they didn’t, there’s no way they should be sued for negligence as Terri is most certainly the one who set this whole thing up and SHE is the reason Kyron is no longer with us, not the school.
Sorry, I am neither an attorney nor LE.
IMO an “electronic communication” could be used as “evidence” BUT it would depend on how it (electronic communication) was obtained -chain of custody.
Per Wikipedia~
“The idea behind recording the chain of custody is to establish that the alleged evidence is in fact related to the alleged crime, rather than having, for example, been planted fraudulently to make someone appear guilty.”
“An identifiable person must always have the physical custody of a piece of evidence. In practice, this means that a police officer or detective will take charge of a piece of evidence, document its collection, and hand it over to an evidence clerk for storage in a secure place. These transactions, and every succeeding transaction between the collection of the evidence and its appearance in court, should be completely documented chronologically in order to withstand legal challenges to the authenticity of the evidence. Documentation should include the conditions under which the evidence is gathered, the identity of all evidence handlers, duration of evidence custody, security conditions while handling or storing the evidence, and the manner in which evidence is transferred to subsequent custodians each time such a transfer occurs (along with the signatures of persons involved at each step).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_of_custody
There is more insight into chain of custody @ Wikipedia. Hope this helps clear your confusion.
JMHO
_____________________________
Jamie says:
December 11, 2010 at 4:39 pm
@ riverpearl thank you for the clarification. I misunderstood who’s post was who. One thing that I’m still trying to understand; can electronic communication be used as physical evidence? I guess I’m trying to be clear on the statement “theres not a shred of physical evidence”
familythx says:
December 11, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Here’s my biggest red flag of all: She expressed EXTREME HATRED for Kyron in emails. EXTREME HATRED!! By a woman who tried to have her husband knocked off.
She is sick and got sicker after Kiara’s birth. She could’ve been overwhelmed with motherhood on top of her depression. I’ll grant her that. She could be addicted to her own adrenaline and needs to stir up chaos and drama. I’ve treated a lot of women like that. Alcohol undoes any good anti depressants do – cancels them out.
Does anyone watch Discovery ID, the cable station? It’s back to back true crime stories about people who kill other people. Some seem perfectly normal, with full lives, social circles and great families. But they kill. It’s shocking always. I’m not surprised by anything she might have done. She’s shown us she didn’t want to get her own hands dirty with Kaine, but she certainly could have escalated by June 4th.
———————————————————————————
@family … my husband and I both watch Discovery ID on a nightly basis .. or as much as I can stand without a break I should say and I must say, I completely agree with you. Shocking how perfectly “normal” some of these people/families appear to be on the surface. Underneath however often lays a wolf in sheep’s clothing and/or serious mental illness/instability/greed. Some of these shows have left me with nightmares for nights on end … the most recent one regarding teenage sociopaths (all the main cases involved teenaged girls who killed schoolmates of all things!) made me re-evaluate even watching the show anymore because it was just so graphic and violent! How one’s anger can get so far out of control and fester into full-blown rage which creates a cold, calculated, narcissistic killer at such a young age just chills me to the bone! No remorse whatsoever … none! And the one was only 15! I have often looked into TMH’s eyes in various photos and in media appearances and I swear there is nothing there but dark shadows lurking. If the eyes really are the “window to the soul” as they say, then TMH’s are very scary indeeed. JMO of course.
13.puzzled says:
December 12, 2010 at 12:37 pm
@MidWest Mom …
Gonzalez, Teresa Anna and Hernandez-Avalos / Solis, Maria
~~~
nothing else pops out.
**************************************
Teressa Anna Gonzalez is a teacher there,
21.enumclawrose says:
December 11, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Great work from Puzzler at SM. If you go up thread, you can find out even more information.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9000.380
From Puzzler @ SM
Skyline Elementary School Staff for the 2009 -2010 year
Ben Keefer – principal
Susan Hall – principals sec.
Scott McBeth K/1
Mrs. Easter Matthews K/1
Mrs Linda Cole K/1
karen Hanson 2/3
Kristina Porter 2/3
Melissa Ritter 2/3
Jessica Bostick 4/5
Vivian Covin 4/5
Jill Kooning 4/5
Brian Gardes lang arts/soc studies 6/7/8
Katrina Frischmann Math/Sci 6/7/8
Paul Mastin math/ lang arts 6/7/8
Mrs. Skach lib/tech
music = tba
pe= mrs Joanne Romanaggi
ms. stephanie Cox – counselor
kenny Moylan head custodian
vickie Ibarra Evening custodian
Diane jones= cafeteria manager
Lou Terrones= resource teacher
Amy Kasch lang. pathologist
Nancy Yates – school psychologist
Mark Valeske – occ therapist
Alayna Pettingill para educator
Tersea Gonzales para educator
Robert Salvia para educator
Deborah Meskimen para educator
Ok Wait a minute,
I thought Salim Masic was the last custodian to leave the school??
Am I reading this wrong?
Comparing last years list to this year…
Teachers that are no longer on the list include:
Paul Mastin math/ lang arts 6/7/8
Mrs. Skach lib/tech
music = tba
ms. stephanie Cox – counselor
kenny Moylan head custodian
Nancy Yates – school psychologist
Alayna Pettingill para educator
Robert Salvia para educator
************************************
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #37 12/5/10 –
« Reply #385 on: December 11, 2010, 11:25:17 AM »
*I wonder if this is the S, Bautista I have been researching?
anybody?
***************************
@Ode,
Yes, I believe it’s the same one I tossed over to Beejay last week
to see if she could play with!
She played hot potato and tossed him back to me! I haven’t come up with anything new, but, have been trying for address, etc.
I had to let daughter home from college use the car, more important than me meeting Blinkers
Darn!
The list –
There seems to be agreement from various people who have the list that there are 213 names on the list which does include staff. Therefore, we probably have the complete list as it was sent out. I’m not sure where the 490 comes from, but 490 – 213 = 277. My guess is that the 277 would be the number of students PRESENT on June 4th .
I would assume that LE would use the attendance printout to make sure who was absent and to verify and count students who were actually there on June 4th. If LE used the attendance computer printout and verified those names were or weren’t there, the list would not include Kyron as “present” since he was marked “absent”. Of course they know Kyron was there, but he was not on the computer attendance record as “present”, so if Kiara was there, and Kyron was marked absent at 10, then technically (sort of) they should have listed 2 minor children with Terri Horman. Seems like a small detail, but if ever a case depended on small details, this is it. Kyron was either there “in the care of” Terri or there “with/as part of/in the care of” the school. I can hear Houze asking – “So, which is it?” and pushing to show he was the school’s responsibility.
If some people are sure Kiara was there, and some are sure they saw Terri without her, then Terri had to (1) leave her in the truck for part of the time, (2) take her somewhere fast (DeDe?) and come back, or (3) have someone else to hand Kiara to in order to be seen both with her and alone. I can see some very good reasons for this list because anything that isn’t already explained or offered by the prosecutor will become huge for Houze. LE has to show that ALL the witnesses are correct or it seems to me you could conclude you can’t tell which are or aren’t accurate, so you must have reasonable doubt.
@ode, and Jan,
Sanchez, Ubaldo
34 Portland, OR
Available Sanchez, Gomez Ubaldo
Get Details…
Sanchez Bautist, Ubaldo
Possible Aka’s:
SANCHEZ, UBALDO
34 Astoria, OR
Available Sanchez, Bautista Ubaldo
******************************
It was driving me nuts, lol, I knew when I grabbed the SF list
I had seen that “Bautista” name before,
14.pps_mom says:
December 12, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Many sweet and joyful blessings to you for your kind words.
Jan–I’ll match your strange posting and add that maybe the nut who posts youtube videos by the name of ‘musicworldnewstoday 1′ may be the CL poster! I dunno but this lady said that Ky was also sold to a person/pedo/freakazoid who loved little kids the wrong way! Oh, it also said she was a drug dealer. If you haven’t seen the vids, do yourself a favor and watch them. Ignore the googlemap shots but just read the text. Weird but you can make some things fit just like any other things!
@skyline parent: Well, another thing on my to-do list. I originally read something in either the school newletter, I think, telling parents they could use the before school care for some event at school. But they needed to contact the director in advance, since this would be a one-time drop off use.
I just now found the PPS school district’s list for this school year, showing onsite before/after care at Skyline. Provided by what I believe is a new (licensed) provider as of this year–maybe last?? IDK. But I do know in prior years that Linnton Community Center, which has struggled financially, did provide onsite care at Skyline.
Take a look at this link for the current school year. It’s all I can find at the moment:
Skyline
11536 NW Skyline Blvd.
On-site
7:00am-8:45am
3:00pm-6:00pm
[provider contact info below]
KidsPlace, Portland Jewish Academy
Contact: Jennifer Merrill-Sordelet
Phone: 503-535-3546
http://www.portlandjewishacademy.org
link to PPS webpage. Scroll to second para; click on “click here”:
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/departments/kindergarten/1578.htm
@21. E-Rose. Haven’t looked at ’10-’11 list lately, but new stadf additions are missing. A husband-wife pair, for example, moved in–at least in an Adaptive PE teacher in addition to regular PE. I thought this couple odd for two reasons: usually OTs and adaptive PEs are “traveling” and cover more than one school, serving as consultants to the IEP team and service provider, rather than much direct service. A fulltime adaptive pe teacher staffing hints then at a large non-inclusion population of severely disabled–that a special program serving out of boundary kids was at Skyline. Third, how often does a husband/wife get paired at a small school? I thought they were undercovers.
I see an important staffer not on the list I hopefully cut and pasted accurately….the Special Educator. You’d think he’d have been supporting those kids that morning. Maybe he had an offsite IEP meeting at hdqtrs, swine flu, or a family matter….
So, if he was supposed to be out of the bldg, did anyone see him there briefly? Came from Calif about 3 yrs prior and was removed from his 3-year new employee probation the same time as Mrs Porter. In the summerI found urls re him–a Calif running club (a race entry), his Calif teaching license, had id’d his Calif area, etc. Yesterday I could find none of the info I’d previously found (re races), though veromi had a possibility who’d lived in several Calif cities.
Kyron’s dog in Medford (w/DY & TY) — Ernie.
_________________
beejay says:
December 11, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Ode: Of course, Quinn! I was just thinking about the children who lived full time in the Horman household. Maybe I’m overly sentimental, but I won’t rest till I do another ornament tomorrow and ship it out via overnight carrier on Monday. Ky loved Bootsie, his cat, and wasn’t there a dog at the Young’s house? Will have to look that up.
Another ornament with names: Kyron, Kitty, James, Quinn, Bootsie, and (dog’s name TBA).
TY, Ode.
Remember Skyline Community List ~
ask you to examine it and inform us of:
1. ANY INDIVIDUAL (to include a minor child), other than a Skyline Student, who you have reason to believe was on the campus between 8-12 on June 4 but is not on this list; and
2. ANY INDIVIDUAL who is on the list but who you have reason to believe was *NOT* on campus during that time.
“K” may NOT of been w/TMH. Just because ON list does NOT “CONFIRM” her -or- ANY ONE ELSE WAS there.
JMHO
That strange and bizarre Alternate “Dimension” blog writer posted the list of names on her site and FB…HOWEVER, she “added” a name…Kim Horman….wonder why? Start trouble/more rumors/just crazy? She is out there.
I’m sorry if I missed this but, I can’t wrap my head around why the class volunteer would say that one student was missing or Kyron was missing after the class tour (sorry I don’t have an exact quote) unless Kyron was with her group at the beginning of the tour?
Rose says: December 11, 2010 at 10:07 am
“I am curious (@ any recipient family) about the time email was sent out by Principal Keefer. Was it about the time of school release in Friday? That would be deliberative timing by a public school system in info mgmt mode amongst its parent/teacher body in the school. As opposed to, say, a weekday morning.”
What do you mean by “info management mode”? Is that to say that it’s Friday, and the school thought email was the best way to reach people at the last minute, going into the weekend?
Some question that I had for Skyline Parent and others who received the email:
1. Is the email HTML format?
2. If the email was HTML format, were any other files included in the email that would automatically opened by the email client, or code that would be executed by the email client? Note: These files would not be noticeable, but rather something that the email client would open automatically as part of the HTML email.
3. What is the full header information on the email? Does the IP of the sender match the usual IP address used by that person? Or, was the email sent from a different server, and if so, does that server trace back to any particular agency or person?
4. Did all of the emails come from the same server, and contain exactly the same email, or did all the emails simply “look” the same? (What I’m getting at is whether some — or all — emails contained code or files that would report information about the email recipient.)
5. Did the emails include the other recipient email addresses, i.e. were other recipients listed in the “to” or “cc:” line? If so, did law enforcement include a previously undisclosed email address, i.e. an email address used by the kidnapper or to correspond with a person of interest?
The timing of the emails is curious, too. Did something break on Friday, or is law enforcement deliberately trying to elicit responses by email?
There could be multiple goals here, i.e.: 1. to obtain the stated information about who was present and who was not present, 2. obtain information about the recipient, 3. obtain information about others who later receive the email, and 4. put someone on notice as to information that law enforcement has learned.
Hypothetically speaking, email can contain code or files to track information about the recipient, i.e. the email contains code that reports back information about the recipient and recipient’s computer, perhaps even a Trojan horse.
I looked at the list again and the numbers. It appears to me that if you start with 490 and subtract the list of 213 that was sent to parents, you have 277 students attending on June 4th.
Then take 29 staff plus the turf tech plus one I know is PPS admin/IB so that makes 31 from 213 (the list) and you have 182 “visitors”. Of those, 15 including Kiara, were children (assume not school age), leaving 167 adults including TH. If most of those adults followed the visiting times for the SF, then there would be a lot of people walking around – and before the 8:45 bell, the students who arrived early would be included. This would vary some depending on when the schoolbus(s?) arrived.
If my numbers are correct (please feel free to check them), it gives us a better picture of what the SF was like. Some would have gone to the gym, some to the classrooms, and some in the halls at any given time so you would be unlikely to see the 167 adults and the children and students all in one place at the same time.
It could seem “chaotic” to some – if you recall, Terri was said to have had her students (when she subbed) walking quietly through the halls in straight lines.
Had I known 2 birders were attending, might have sprung for a trip. Only thing better would be a cairn terrier fan. (a contributor’s email?) Good luck. Be safe and full of ideas you pass on. Take minutes!
@1. ERose. Thanks for letter copy.
These folks need communication 101 ( forget bureaucratic “have reason to believe” etc)
1. Did you see someone we don’t have listed?
2. Do we have someone down you never saw, and you think you’d have seen them if they were Really There?
@ GLP making connection of Andrea Leckey as NOT only TMH “friend” BUT DDS (was DDS nail tech 2yrs ago)
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1170793/pg1159
@skyline parent: I’d need to do a cache search for last year’s school newsletters and don’t have time right now. Perhaps someone else can. But for this school year, from the Sept 13, 2010 newsletter, here’s the before/after school care reference I mentioned in my earlier post. And then the link:
“I want to remind parents that there is no adult supervision of children prior to 8:35. Teachers and staff are busy preparing for the school day. The office opens at 8:00 and there is much to be done in the mornings in order to be ready for students. If you do need to drop your student off early you can contact Jolene Williams, who is with our on-site daycare facility. She does allow drop in students if it has been arranged in advance.”
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/09_13_10issue.pdf
I’d like to know where on the skyline school campus this is housed.