Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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IMO – Skyline School students are safe from the person who took Kyron, particularly with their increased awareness and security improvements (although nothing is ever 100%). However, if he is enjoying his success and gets some thrill out of having outsmarted an entire school, etc., I would expect him to consider taking another targeted victim from a different school at some point in time.
We all MUST help. I may get arrested someday because I do follow any small child I see wandering in a store with no adults in sight – did it just yesterday. When I see them reconnect, I go my way. If not, I contact a store employee. Unfortunately, I could have walked out with several in the last few years by saying “Let’s go find Mommy.”
@idahogal
your sense of humor is so like mine so you think we can let the Pope
off the hook LOL
Thanks for all the times you have made me laugh in this sorry
situation
I hope we get a lead on where Kyron is soon
How about LE knows this perp travels and makes a hit and moves on
would that be a reason to lead others to believe their kids are safe
still thinking and thinking
I have always thought women who are after money married some
old sugar daddy with one foot in the grave
not a guy younger than they are with a child to raise
Anna N Smith type
but what do I know
@Midwest Mom says:
December 15, 2010 at 1:41 pm
re:enumclawrose says:
December 15, 2010 at 11:52 am
“IT guy. Someone TH & KH know. Someone from Intel?”
Mom & e-rose, Mrs K is also ex-Intel.. there are actually quite a few connections leading back to Intel. I’m not concluding anything, other than Intel employs over 8000 people in Washington County. But it is eerie when the type jumps off the screen at you.
Does anyone know who the man in this photo is???
Kimberly, his name is at the bottom. Why are we posting that my friend?
B
No electronic footprint, but has masterful IT skills
I think that this part of the profile has to do with the SZ having the ability to spoof the originating IP of emails to make it look like emails were sent from TH’s computer. That would require IT skills. I hope LE realizes that the spoofed email creator could also just be a (nut case) blogger who convinced of TH’s guilt created some fake emails and sent them just to hurry along her conviction. JMO
Maybe Ky was acting strange. Maybe because TMH had already let the pedo in. Maybe that is why she could not let him go to DY and TY’s. And why she mentioned the behavior to the teacher, then used that to fumble the dr’s appt’s and cause confustion.
6 mos. prior she had tried the MFH, got rid of J and asked DY to ask KH to let her have custody. Why have KH killed? insurance money? Did she owe someone? I think she did. I think she owed for drugs or gambling debt or something.
This entire plan changed when the MFH didn’t pan out. Maybe the person she owed then bargained for the boy, and she allowed abuse to come in. Maybe that is why Ky was punished to his room. So he wouldn’t talk. Maybe she threatened him into being quiet about what was going on and yet knew she couldn’t control it once he was at DY’s, so in order to save herself, she set up the disappearance and let him go.
I Seriously hope not. God bless KY and let him come home now.
foobros says:
December 14, 2010 at 9:35 pm
panda says:
December 14, 2010 at 7:37 pm
One name on the school list:
Male
Has a child @ the school
Was at the Science fair in ‘Electric’ area
Attended SF without a spouse
Has IT skills, possibly masterful
Functions well in community
Foobros &/or Panda,
Can you give initials pls.
44.Cbickel says:
December 15, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Ok I’m totally confused…who’s SZ?
~~~
suspect zero (SZ) is the name of the suspect before they actually have one.
B
Has anyone considered the possibility that Terri took Kyron and his friend to the bowling alley as a way for suspect zero to size up the victim?
@29. G-Dad. Great analysis
@27. “what about me?” Queen of Diversion perhaps will get her gratification from BINGO (answers, success).
Unfortunately, sometimes the only gratification we get is the ability to help find a person, or what happened to them, and at times, makes this a really difficult job. As I would say in my old profession, not a big share.
B
I read here everyday and see folks try to make a connection or to implicate any number of innocent/private people in the disappearance of Kyron based on conjecture – albeit conjecture based on some small tidbit released by the task force. Not meaning to be disrespectful b/c I know we are all thinking, thinking, and constantly thinking about this case. It’s like we’re going around in circles. Blink – I know you won’t upstage LE – nor would we want you to – but is there any investigative journalism you can proffer here? The latest with the release of the list of names is really LE wanting to double-check that they’ve interviewed everyone and we are all here, trying to find the suspect among them. Please LE solve this case and bring peace to Kyron’s family.
I have been doing just that for 2 days. That’s all I got.
B
jan says:
December 15, 2010 at 3:50 pm
@jan — see below:
Midwest Mom says:
December 15, 2010 at 1:41 pm
@Midwest — same last name
Hi, all. I’ve read every day, but haven’t posted lately until today. Can’t believe he is still not here. I can’t believe a lot of things having to do with this case actually….
Kyron, wherever you are, may God be with you. And may you feel the warmth of all the love and hugs and well wishes that are sent your way every day. You are in the hearts of many, always.
HATS OFF to Blink and the rest on here who give so much of your time and dedication to helping in your own way to find Kyron. You guys are amazing!
Idahogal –
BTW I have larengitis, which has made the hubby so happy! However, it looks grim as of now for the lunch date. Perhaps a note pad and sign language would do? Sigh…
————–
Please come if you can – I would really like to meet you even if you are quiet.
beejay says:
December 15, 2010 at 12:10 pm
I kinda think any clever PEDO would not be reading here or anywhere else for awhile. Your average internet user who knows just enough to get themselves in trouble/be vulnerable, however, might well be reading here. JMHO.
He does not need to develop them, he already has them.
B
Blink – You seem quite firm on this point, I’m wondering why? I’m feeling quite dense again.
Blink says: (snipped)
Doubtful it is a drawing, they would need an image. The image could be scanned to scale from a drawing I suppose, but in general this software is state of the art to match points on a person’s face and person unique to them.
Blink – are you hinting that LE has a photo of this SZ obtained from SF pictures given to them OR from other cameras, such as traffic or stores?
Just thinking…IIRC, TH had over 500 friends on FB, which IMO is downright ridiculous, unless you are a celeb. Further, her FB page was not secure, everyone could see everything on there. Pretty damn easy for a predator to gain knowledge about a family and make plans. It’s even possible that the perp is/was a FB friend of hers.
At any rate, IMO she doesn’t know who took Kyron, and she didn’t assist in any way. All of her behaviors in the days after he disappeared made her look really bad, and it seems doubtful that if she were involved she would have made such stupid comments on FB, or sent emails to the media, or sent nasty emails about Ky to someone before he disappeared. I really think she has told LE all she knows about Ky via Houze. Maybe I’m naïve, but I’ve always felt that if Houze knew she was responsible, or even the where or who about Ky, he would have advised her to spill it and cut a deal. Is that ridiculous on my part? Probably. I do think she is keeping quiet about other things, like a MFH plot, which has a good chance of landing her butt in prison. All IMOO, just pondering this sorry mess.
@beejay- You know I am three quarters German,LOL. Thanks for sharing that story, IMO justice served on a platter, if you will!
@Malty – My father-in-law (RIP) once told me that a gal can love a rich man as easy as a poor man. I just wish he’d told me that BEFORE I married his son, LOL! I’m definitely considering this perp, if it was a random SO, could be the type that moves around a lot. That would not surprise me at all.
Apologies Blink,
The page for whatever reason did not show his name when
I was looking at it, I looked several times.
@Puzzled….oh duh….thanks! Sometimes I get a little overwhelmed with all the letters! lolol
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
Maybe this is how SZ would be using his masterful IT skills
From 2007:
The international investigation was groundbreaking in three main ways:
1) It dismantled one of the largest (more than 400,000 images and videos were posted, traded, and trafficked) and most sophisticated child exploitation rings we’ve ever come across. For example, the group used powerful encryption tools to keep the operation secret and a multi-layered system to vet new members. “These people went to a lot of trouble to keep from being discovered,” said Steve Tidwell, the FBI Executive Assistant Director who oversees our national criminal programs. “They had a level of operational security that we’ve not seen before.”
Speaking of employment, MS-13 members typically work for legitimate businesses by presenting false documentation. They primarily pick employers that don’t scrutinize employment documents, especially in the construction, restaurant, delivery service, and landscaping industries.
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008/march/innocent_images030608
Today:
Federal authorities announced Tuesday they dismantled an international child pornography ring that allowed its 35 male members to trade thousands of images and videos of boys in sexually explicit situations through a website.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/14/california.child.porn/
14. panda. Yeah, that’s what I thought you meant
Going way back here, because this Blink quote just rang my bell. I don’t know if this is what Blink was thinking at the time or not.
June 17, 2010 at 10:05 pm
“Let me be clear in my communication with all readers:
I will stake my professional reputation on the fact that this is a sexually motivated crime.
If we agree on that, how is one getting to the SM?
B
Electronically. Someone that got access to TH and her family via computer systems. Doesn’t have to be a stranger, but could be. That would surprise everyone, yes? I got an email offer the other day for a degree in legal hacking, seriously. I know people on FB that are constantly posting via cell phones, where they are, what they are doing, who they saw, what the kids are doing, on and on. IMO never a good idea to put that info. out there, but TH did just that every day.
That could easily give a perp access to everything. Look at what Weeds dug up for us awhile back, you know? Where are you, Weeds? You are our resident computer scientist, how easy is it for someone like yourself to gain access to all kinds of personal info.?
IMHO, this opens up a lot of possibilities, a whole other can of worms for me. Chat rooms, dating sites, etc. Just trying to think outside the box here. All just IMHO. Any thoughts? I hope someone answers me, cuz’ Blink never answers me anymore, boo hoo!
This “suspect zero” stuff seems pretty kooky to me. I have a hard time believing that LE would not release this info to the public – both as a safety precaution to protect other kids in the area, and to enlist the public’s help in identifying this person.
The whole “letting the vampire in” thing doesn’t work for me either. If TH let a vampire in, it’s likely because she invited them to her house with a scheme of her own design already in mind, opened the door and began plotting with the vampire how to get rid of Kyron (and Kaine).
When it was learned that TH failed LDTs – there were a lot of excuses made for her – such as maybe she was up to something else she wanted to hide unrelated to Kyron.
When the MFH stuff came out – that was questioned as not being for real – probably something a vindictive landscaper made up.
When the sexting stuff was released – that was made to appear as if Kaine and MC might have “cooked” that up themselves to frame TH.
We’ve had alleged kidnapper notes, vampires, suspect zeroes, vindictive landscapers, the TH was blindsided/framed theories – a lot of “suggestions” to minimize TH’s role. I do not understand this.
TH has unaccounted for time on June 4th and DDS has the same unaccounted for time. Neither of them are cooperating. LE showed DY emails from TH to her friends that DY said showed TH’s severe hatred for Kyron, and DY said she feared that TH could have harmed him “in the worst possible way”.
Idahogal says:
December 15, 2010 at 5:59 pm
(snip)
Electronically.
IMHO, this opens up a lot of possibilities, a whole other can of worms for me. Chat rooms, dating sites, etc. Just trying to think outside the box here. All just IMHO. Any thoughts? I hope someone answers me, cuz’ Blink never answers me anymore, boo hoo!
*********************************************************************
@Idahogal.
Electronically.
That seems to fit in with all the bread crumbs along the trail that B. has been leaving for us.
From Blink:
“Let me be clear in my communication with all readers:
I will stake my professional reputation on the fact that this is a sexually motivated crime.
If we agree on that, how is one getting to the SM?
B
What link could we make from SM (TMH) … to “this is a sexually motivated crime”?
Electronic connection along the way with the wrong person.
Knowingly or unknowingly … she let the vampire in.
Your earlier post today mentioned that TMH had 500+ Facebook “friends”.
Her wide open settings allowed for anyone to view her (and her FAMILY) entire life.
Her daily coming + goings, her personality, her dis-satisfaction with life, etc.
With Facebook alone, she exposed herself (and her FAMILY) to anyone + everyone who cared to look. (complete with a zillion pics of them all)
Plus all the other electronic communications TMH was probably doing.
Chat rooms of strangers, dating sites, possible porn sites?, alternative lifestyle sites? etc.
That would count as “TMH letting in the vampire” to me.
Shoot, Desiree told us that TMH would usually email her 3-5 times EVERYDAY with long details of her life.
Who talks with their husbands ex-wife that much?
If she’s talking to Desiree that much … imagine how much she is spilling her guts to everyone else.
Especially some stranger (a man) that lent a sympathetic ear to listening to her babblings.
TMH left herself (and her FAMILY) an open door to some dark person with other (evil) intentions.
Poor little Kyron.
snip
Idahogal says:
December 15, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Electronically. Someone that got access to TH and her family via computer systems. Doesn’t have to be a stranger, but could be. That would surprise everyone, yes? I got an email offer the other day for a degree in legal hacking, seriously. I know people on FB that are constantly posting via cell phones, where they are, what they are doing, who they saw, what the kids are doing, on and on. IMO never a good idea to put that info. out there, but TH did just that every day.
That could easily give a perp access to everything. Look at what Weeds dug up for us awhile back, you know? Where are you, Weeds? You are our resident computer scientist, how easy is it for someone like yourself to gain access to all kinds of personal info.?
IMHO, this opens up a lot of possibilities, a whole other can of worms for me. Chat rooms, dating sites, etc. Just trying to think outside the box here. All just IMHO. Any thoughts? I hope someone answers me, cuz’ Blink never answers me anymore, boo hoo!
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
I think that is why it is a good idea not to enter your real address, phone number age etc into your facebook profile. I use my cats name and picture for my facebook ID, and no address. My friends know my real name and and can find my facebook, strangers do not need to know about me. A lot of people when they see a internet site that asks for name address and phone# will just enter it. I never use a real name or enter an address unless there is some reason that that site will need to contact me like Amazon, and I have considered getting a P.O. box address for sites where I must enter an address. FWIW
Idahogal
I agree Terri had a high risk open FB for all to see
I have no doubt she went to chat rooms telling it all
over the Internet
living a soap opera life for all to read
lots of drama
this is why I really don’t think she could mastermind anything without
leaving clues
how smart is it to write emails hating Kyron when you have a plan
or any of the drama she kept going for months
And really for years she has been messing up her life
anyway this is how I see things
and you know those 500 friends have 500 friends WOW
25.Idahogal says:
December 15, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Electronically. Someone that got access to TH and her family via computer systems. Doesn’t have to be a stranger, but could be. That would surprise everyone, yes?
~~~
Someone who had access to just one account via their smartphone could, theoretically, hack into all other accounts, i.e. text, email, fb. TH was all over the place on everything… and everywhere she went was accessible to whoever was tracking her.
People had asked about a possible camera being mounted on the top of the little church across the street from Skyline.
Someone posting at SM (a local) has said that the camera was installed at the church AFTER 6/4 by LE.
Potentially there are other camera’s in that area now too.
They also mentioned that when the Wall of Hope was vandalized – LE was able to ID who it was b/c of the camera that is now mounted at church + aimed toward the school.
but is there any investigative journalism you can proffer here?
I have been doing just that for 2 days. That’s all I got.
B
~~~
I thought you gave us plenty to chew on for at least … 2 or 3 days. lol
Malty says:
December 14, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Blink
I can relate to your post about some one counting steps and watching
everyone and figuring out how to pull this off
watching the bathrooms using a stopwatch
this makes sense
I wonder if Kyron was the target or if he just was in the wrong place
what does IT skills mean
——————-
“IT” is the acronym for “Information Technology” … like a system administrator for a school/company that takes of all the computer-related responsibilities, i.e. computer problems, networking, server issues, etc.
Blink,
Costa and Dougal. Could these NW Portland men’s recent arrests be related to the Kyron Horman investigation? T
mosaic says:
December 14, 2010 at 7:51 pm
The cameras that were installed this Summer at Skyline have a facial recognition mode. Nothing stupid about that question.
B
——-
But Blink … the cameras being installed would’ve been “after the fact” of the SF in June when Ky was taken so how could any facial recognition cameras be of help to get a “description” of the SZ when they were installed after it had already happened? Along with many Blinkers here, I too still don’t really get how LE could stand by their comment that Ky’s disappearance was an “isolated” incident after hearing about some of this new proposed information on the perp. Do you know if LE still stands by their earlier remarks or have they officially changed them and just not enlightened the Skyline community? If I were a Skyline parent, I would definitely want to know this!
http://www.plumperpumpkins.com/index.html
Notice on “pumpkin patch” and “birthday parties” pages and see what looks identical in pose – and I might add quite an odd pose – of a little boy who looks as if he has poor vision or does not have his glasses on. Again on “fall field trip” it is a somewhat similar shot but not as odd as the two other pages. Is this TK?
So this is the place owned by JK – who was at the SF with his son (project on antimatter), works at Intel and is IT literate.
As per my comments above, does anyone know if this location (pumpkin patch) is in the vicinity of Cornelius Pass and Skyline that LE was asking for any information about a white truck in the area?
abc123 says:
December 15, 2010 at 8:06 pm
Blink,
Costa and Dougal. Could these NW Portland men’s recent arrests be related to the Kyron Horman investigation? T
*****************************************************************************
@ abc123.
Whoa.
Coata is the scary dude that gave me a shiver up my spine yesterday when I posted about looking at this site:
http://pdxmugshots.com/charge/usm-hold-u-
That’s the guy is the second row of the PDX mugshots with USM hold on him – that I was looking at, that gave me the heebie-jeebies.
Below is my post from yesterday and also some of Kimberley’s additional info about Costa. (he works with semi-conductors, single male, US Marshal hold)
Sammy says:
December 14, 2010 at 9:22 pm
Kimberly says:
December 14, 2010 at 7:18 pm
Can someone refresh my memory as to what exactly a “USM HOLD” without it being an immigration issue be for?
The reason I ask is because my radar became sensitive to an
individual currently being held at MC jail, his linkedin profile says
he works with semi-conductors, and he appears to be unmarried. His parents are listed on the USA People search and also on Veromi public directory.
MCSO has him as 52 years of age???
Anyone? I’m just not use to seeing a USM hold without immigration being involved.
TIA
************************************************************************************
@Kimberly.
You got my interest piqued about the USM holds so I did some googling.
First entry that shows up in a google of “USM hold” – was this page that lists “Multnomah Counties 75 most recent people booked on a USM Hold”.
I was surprised at how many there are in just the past month in just this one county.
Holy Cow!
http://pdxmugshots.com/charge/usm-hold-u-
I took a look across that whole page of pictures, and I do believe my radar pinged at that same face as you’re thinking off.
Out of those 75 pics – something about the face/eyes of one guy ran a chill up my spine as soon as I saw him.
(nope, not claiming any psychic-spine abilities. lol)
I then checked a little further, and see that his age is the same and the semi conductor thing does match up + sounds like it’s the same guy that made your radar sensitive.
I hesitant to post any names here – I understand B’s wish that names be vetted off BOC, but this guy gives me the creeps.
Wonder if it’s the same guy that caused you to take a second look at him?
Without mentioning any names … if you go to that link I posted above – the guy I’m looking at is in the second row.
As for your question about USM Hold.
I’m certainly no expert, but to me that is a US Marshall Hold and could be for MANY things besides immigration.
I would think it a USM Hold would not be for your run of the mill small time crimes … but fugitives that the Federal Govt has a stake in getting their hands on.
A quick look at Wikipedia desribes the many types of crimes and other duties handled by the Marshall service.
The Costa / Dougal arrest:
http://www.oregonlive.com/washingtoncounty/index.ssf/2010/12/director_of_community_relation.html
Both men shown as US Marshall Hold on PDX Mugshots.
@jden says:
December 15, 2010 at 9:03 pm
http://www.plumperpumpkins.com/index.html
I too got a strange sense from pictures of children, seems many boys, look like Kyron, weird. Red-shorts boy pics repeated on several pages.
What struck me most is that pipe:
a boy sliding down what looks like a bendable sewer pipe; another page features just the long pipe tunnel opening. Someone knew where to buy, move, use such a pipe.
JK FB interests: Krueger’s Tree Farm, OSU Extension Service: Washington County, Edge Foundation, Aloha United Methodist Church, ReKindle Corporative Youth Ministry,Oregon-Idaho Conference of United Methodist Church,
Wallowa Lake Camp,
Ascend Elevator,Custom Cakeworks, Sauvie Island Lavender Farm,
Plumper Pumpkin Patch, Maize Quest Fun Park,Microbrew Media, Shortcake Photo,Tri-County Farm-Fresh Foods, Kink.fm
Okay, thinking about the IT Skills thing, possibly someone TH knew, had interactions with, etc … here’s something I remember reading awhile ago.
A blogger on another forum who appeared to one of TMH’s friends and was making excuses for her posted on another board that when TMH couldn’t account for so much of her time on June 4th, it was simply because she was “meeting some guy” and she didn’t want anyone to know who he was. She implied that TMH had possibly been seeing someone and didn’t want that info to come out which is why she was evasive regarding her full whereabouts that day.
This person didn’t seem to think this was such a big deal … talking as if the reason TMH didn’t want to cooperate fully was simply to avoid having this info and this man’s name come out into the open because of an alleged affair.
When Blink posted the details recently about SZ it made me start thinking … many speculate that TMH does in fact know the identity of the guy in question it appears LE is looking for and have wondered how if at all she is connected to him. What if everything this alleged friend was saying was true but it was more than just a potential affair? Could this alleged secret mystery man TMH had some kind of connection with is the one LE is indeed trying to find? Could he be Ky’s disappearer? I have began wondering about this post again recently since the new info has come out and wondering how it might in fact fit in. The man LE is searching for does in fact seem to be quite the ghost … is the man TMH was supposed to see on June 4th after the SF the same one we’re all speculating about? And if so … how does it tie in and what could it possibly mean to the case?
Like I said earlier … no one lives in a vacuum … everyone lives among others, etc. There has to be a trail if even only a faint one or someone that knows at least SOMETHING somewhere out there that may add to this case. Who is the guy TMH was going to meet that day that she didn’t want anyone to know about? I just have this overwhelming feeling that somehow that ties in because the timing can’t be coincidental, can it?
Kimberly says:
December 15, 2010 at 11:21 am
Facial recognition software is similar, but to my knowledge has a loaded database interface.
B
———————————
Blink … I’m assuming the faces the datebase is loaded with are arrested/convicted criminals? If that’s the case, it doesn’t specifically help me with this case, because what if our SZ is someone who has never yet been arrested/convicted of anything? In that regard, his face would never show up in the database and he could go undetected right under LE’s noses for yrs, even if the cameras pointed right at him. Is this how it works or am I misunderstanding.
I used to work with AFIS fingerprinting files/images indirectly where I used to work yrs ago … quite amazing how that technology actually works, but don’t know much about the facial recognition arena, so please pardon my ignorance on that part {:)
I always wondered if somehow Ky was taken out to the deep blue sea Pacific.
Back in Long-Shot Category, thinking every angle:
AV is FB friends with Devin L (of Portland), who removed Sanchez-friend that ultimately connected to A. Sosa (Portland) then E. Mejia:
http://es-la.facebook.com/people/Elsa-Mejia/100000643103724
After hearing gruesome news that a child’s foot washed ashore in WA, I remembered Tillamook photos (taken 5 months ago) on DL’s FB Wall that shows Pacific fishing.
And maybe a very slight, slight resemblance photo of Mystery Man tucked in far corner of SF exhibit photo.
Compare:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1235237901477&set=a.1235237301462.28350.1845103510
and
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/22/kyron-horman-update-man-spotted-in-photo-from-stepmoms-facebook-page/
Remember a dark truck sighting off of Hwy 26 (towards North OR Coast) when Ky first went missing; one can’t help but notice containers in bed of DL Wall pickup truck photos.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1235234701397&set=a.1235233421365.28349.1845103510
What prompted DL to remove FB Sanchez friend? Work backwards from Elsa M. FB, for a few other Sanchez connections.
Javier S. works for Olmsted Transportation, flatbed services serving lower British Columbia, Wash., Ore.; dispatch computerized, integrated with direct communication to all trucks.
Oh, Ky
Where are you?
My first reaction when reading Blink’s and other comments on the “masterful IT skills” and “other outlets to suppress urges” is that SZ was into downloading child pornography.
This also connects to some of the discussion a few months ago on this and other sites about parallel investigations into child porn / illegal drug rings. We were all wondering if the perp somehow brought Kyron into these worlds, but I’m thinking now LE might have been trying to track down the perp by locating/arresting consumers of online child porn focusing on images of young boys. (Remember that series of local area child porn busts in the early fall? The “ositoazul” social networking group? http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Clackamas-man-arrested-for-child-porn-103641464.html)
SZ’s “masterful IT skills” could be his ability to access these sites as an “outlet” without being detected or traceable.
If you google face recognition camera security or some combination of that you can read volumes of stuff regarding FRT (face recognition technology) and it’s various benefits and downsides.
Basically, a school (or a district on a wide area network) will take digital photos of students and workers and store them in the new camera system. When a camera spots a face in a school that it cannot match to a stored photo, it will alert security. These systems can also detect suspended and expelled students and fired employees or even RSO’s… so the potential is just starting to be fully explored.
It’s used all of the time right now in casinos and airports and gov’t buildings.
Excellent Point about it’s other use, I forgot that mode, your right.
B
What if RS and SZ are acquainted because RS did lawn work for SZ too? If TH and RS had any type of “extra” relationship, at all-then maybe SZ learned of TH and family from RS. If SZ is super IT, then just maybe he did work at Intel at some point, or still works for them. He may also know the Horman family through company parties and other work related functions.
Maybe SZ had a long standing plan to take a child like Kyron, and the busy Science Fair day just presented him with the perfect opportunity.
Or maybe he heard from RS (or someone else, or just his own research) that Skyline would be an easy place to take a student from (no cameras), and it all combined into a perfect storm. Or maybe he followed TH’s facebook and read about how Kyron would sometimes go off to the bathroom without telling anyone, and felt he would be easy to single out because of that.
Others have said that if Kyron wasn’t taken from Skyline it would have just happened elsewhere. That may be-but security cameras often deter people from doing something that they know they have a good chance of being caught at. Anything we can do to keep children safe is worth it. I’m glad that Skyline now has security.
I can see a super IT skillset predator who couldn’t have picked a better school, or day to take a child. It was maybe almost too easy for him. If this person is random-it’s going to happen again, and I desperately hope he is caught before another child has to pay with his/her innocence or life.
23.Idahogal says:
December 15, 2010 at 10:02 am
to Idahogal: When I see kids walking down the road alone I often think the same thing, sometimes very young kids out on our country roads and I wonder how their parents are comfortable with that?
It is so important to teach our children to maintain boundaries and that it’s okay to say no to an adult you don’t know or trust. At the end of the day we have to teach teach our children well, protect them when they’re in our care, and pray that God protect them when they’re not because we can’t always be there.
Hate to burst the person’s bubble (sorry I forgot who) who said only celebrities have 500+ people on their FB. (Remember in the few days that Kyron first went missing, lots of people jumped on and became TH’s friend to give her support so that greatly escalated her numbers)
However, I have several people who have over 500, they seem to be on a lot and like to post and comment and have lots of interests and a lot of that goes international too. Only some of that may be indirectly promoting their own businesses, advancing their belief systems, another way of socializing etc. The article I just read (see below) on FB said over 70% of FBers are non-American. I went to some training and they said it was easy to hack into FB, lots of kids could, no big deal.
Everyone saw Mark Zuckerberg, founder of FB, as Time’s person of the year, right?
Back to SZ: VERY sophisticated in terms of crime, experienced as well, this is scarier than some little landscaper who is a run of the mill perp. Part of a big crime network of some type, perhaps hidden in plain sight and using these IT skills on some conventional job, yes to that guy just arrested too possibly- The article on the Costa arrest talked about the level on encryption being very sophisticated. So maybe TH had some very shady dealings herself, poking around in some dark places with very dark people. Again, just her present behavior screams GUILT! RS could also have been someone else’s landscaper or just criminal getting bigger. Someone told me that someone close or in LE told them that the Mexican Mafia is behind a lot of the drugs in the area. Someone is running these shows, they are not all your stereotypical drug dealers (movie:traffic and Ms. Zeta-Jones look). Look at that guy they arrested from a cartel who was an American citizen, some name like Barbie. I wonder if LE have some possible ideas to pursue regarding this very evil dude. He is active SOMEWHERE, though perhaps no arrest yet or not for quite awhile. But WHY was he in Skyline before since this could not have been his first time? I would think he would replicate this as some other school, but they say they are grooming for a long time to carry this out sometimes.
Hooray, BeeJay came to Oregon to see it in person! It seems if you wanted to earn money doing investigative stuff you could.
I’m sure some of you have read this, but I think it is very helpful in understanding child pornography on the internet and the varied characteristics of those who do, plus computer uses and how to deal with the problem, etc.
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e04062000.pdf
excerpts (there is a lot more):
“There is no one type of Internet child pornography user, and there is no easy way to recognize an offender. Having a preconceived idea of a child sex offender can be unhelpful and prove a distraction for investigating police.”
“It is not known exactly how many people may access child pornography on the Internet without ever physically abusing a child. Before the Internet, between one-fifth and one-third of people arrested for possession of child pornography were also involved in actual abuse. However, the Internet makes it easy for people who may never have actively sought out traditional forms of child pornography to satisfy their curiosity online and this may encourage casual users. Looking at the relationship from the other direction, those convicted of sexually abusing children will not necessarily seek out or collect child pornography, with one study putting the number of offenders who do so at around 10 percent. The term child molester covers a wide variety of offenders, from serial predators to situational offenders who may not have ingrained sexual interest in children.”
“Physical abusers: Offenders who sexually abuse children and for whom an interest in child pornography is just part of their pedophilic interests. They may record their own abuse behaviors for their personal use, in which case, from a legal standpoint, the possession of pornography is secondary to the evidence of their abusive behavior that it records. They may or may not network. By definition,
a physical abuser directly abuses victims and his security depends upon the child’s silence.”
“Producers: Offenders who record the sexual abuse of children for the purpose of disseminating it to others. The extent of their networking varies depending on whether they are also distributors. Again the producer’s direct abuse of the victim compromises his security.”
“Distributors: Offenders involved in disseminating abuse images. In some cases they have a purely financial interest in child pornography. More often, offenders at any of the above levels who share images may be classified as distributors. Thus, the extent of a distributor’s networking, his level of security, and whether he engages in direct abuse of children depends upon the level at which he is operating.”
Almost 2 years ago, following an arrest of a subject, we discovered what appeared to our blinktank to be a “faux” site, which was really a portal to encrypt child porn. It was turned over by me personally to Drew Parenti, and to date, is STILL being investigated. For obvious reasons that is the extent of info I can publish about it.
My point is, these investigations take a very long time, cross multiple countries and agencies, and they tend to take their time to make sure they catch as many in their net as possible.
B
Some small thoughts –
I would be surprised to find SZ on the list of names. If his name is on there, I would expect it to be an alias. I understand people wanting to check out the names on the list, but I’m sure LE has done that very thoroughly already. It is my understanding that visitors did not sign into the SF so that the list of names would come from (1) staff who regularly sign in, (2) pictures where everyone is carefully identified, (3) video identifications, (4) people’s memories, (5) car and car license identification.
If SZ wanted to personally check out the school, the easiest time would be on Thursday afternoon when the exhibits were set up and few or no pictures were being taken. Lots of people would be carrying things in and out. Until the set up was at least partially done, it might be hard to see the best routes, the areas where one’s view would be blocked by the exhibits, etc., even if you had been in the school before. I would like to see a list of who was at the school on Thursday afternoon, but I think it would be hard to have gotten a complete list.
If SZ dated or worked with or befriended Terri to get to Kyron, it seems like too direct and obvious a route for a guy who is so careful unless she agreed to it and made sure it was more secret than her other relationships. I don’t view her as being afraid of anyone, but it’s quite possible someone has something that would implicate her in this and/or other illegal activities and she knows it. It’s entirely possible that she may not know his real name or his real background.
If SZ dated someone else related to the school or gym to have a connection (even slight) to the Horman famiy, and if he used an alias, then there would be no name on the list that people could accurately match with him – only his description. My guess is that he also avoids being identifiable in pictures – he wants to be visible only to kids.
Who is the most invisible person to adults? I think it is someone in a uniform. The uniform draws your eyes away from the face. Mailman, transportation of any kind, fireman, clergyman, workman, mechanic, military, security, etc.
Some big thoughts –
How did SZ choose Kyron?
a) a pedophile who knew SZ’s preferences suggested him – apparently there are chat rooms where this sort of thing is discussed
b) accidentally found him on TH’s FB page by searching the internet – or met them camping or traveling and had no difficulty finding Terri on FB and then in person – or heard a relative or friend talking about Kyron and family
c) saw him in person – a waiter at favorite restaurant, trainer at the gym (assuming Kyron spent time in childcare with Kiara – Kaine and TH used different gyms), athletic events (someone mentioned bowling too), etc. – possibly met him at school
How much of a relationship did SZ have with Kyron before June 4th?
How long does it take to gain the trust of one unhappy child who is said to be shy and timid?
What proof of a man’s “trustworthiness” would a child quickly accept to move him out of the “stranger” category?
So – it is possible for SZ to have targeted Kyron, made contact, become a familiar face, and checked out the school – all without Terri’s help. But HOW could he be sure that Terri would not walk Kyron into class, and that Kyron would not be placed in a small group with a “drill sergeant” volunteer leader who would even stand outside the bathroom door and wait while counting heads over and over, and that his teacher wouldn’t go look for him or send someone else to do that at 9:45 AM?
Even if he only needed 1 to 3 minutes, they had to be at the perfect time to avoid being caught. Unless Terri helped him – how would SZ set up that part that he was not in control of? Perhaps he would have walked out the door and waited for another day? How long could he continue setting up opportunities and waiting it out? (School would be out.)
Would it have been enough to have a prearranged “secret plan” with Kyron? Kyron was 7, not a teenager. Is this guy so skilled that he could depend on a child so young remembering and acting on a plan of some sort? I don’t think so – I think it would require help or visual contact or time to physically act. It was a school day that was even more interesting than usual and Kyron was expecting a great weekend – I don’t think you could con him with a “let’s leave school and go do this” story – it would have to be just “to the parking lot before the bell rings” with no time to think it over, or something similar.
I don’t know anything about the Skyline bathrooms. I have been in lots of schools. Some schools have kids’ bathrooms, but they also have a staff bathroom(s) that is just for one, is ADA approved, and has a key that works with staff room keys. Usually, there are a few extra keys for volunteers to borrow. If you went in unnoticed, you could come out however and with whatever you wanted – even with changed appearance or a container. Some bathrooms have windows that open and some don’t. I assume LE would have asked whether witnesses noticed anyone around the bathrooms, but chances are good that no one did, and who takes a good look at people as they exit a bathroom? MOO – Skyline may not have this sort of arrangement.
Re checking out people who have been recently arrested –
I did look at the mugshots link. The 2 who have been mentioned didn’t catch my attention as much as some of the others, but not in relation to Kyron. I thought about what kind of “look” would appeal to Kyron to set him at ease. There is one guy who resembles Kaine a bit – hairline, ears, facial features, body size. NOT saying that connects him at all, but having a “familiar” look could be a plus for SZ – a resemblance to Kaine, or Grandpa Moulton, or ? Maybe.
This thinking stuff is not fun, but I don’t know any other way to try to figure things out.
justice23 says:
December 15, 2010 at 9:03 pm
mosaic says:
December 14, 2010 at 7:51 pm
The cameras that were installed this Summer at Skyline have a facial recognition mode. Nothing stupid about that question.
B
——-
But Blink … the cameras being installed would’ve been “after the fact” of the SF in June when Ky was taken so how could any facial recognition cameras be of help to get a “description” of the SZ when they were installed after it had already
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
I think that LE may have a picture of a suspected perf maybe taken by a parent at the SF, and that they used the facial recognition software on this picture.
Facial recognition cameras, are a device used with a loaded profile or scan of individuals they wish to identify on site, period.
Now, I do not know exactly what type of software they are using and imo, nobody should, but it can also house a security feature such as recognition to gain access, etc.
I cannot say this enough. They have at least what they suspect is an image of a POI in that system.
B
E-Rose: U and M’s info verified on the tax record I sent you way back when. Also, the last info pertaining to them B posted, which leads me to believe is relevant. I ran across an arrest record of U , also recent arrest of R on sex related charges. Makes me say HMMMMM…
Loislaw Federal District Court Opinions U.S. v. SANCHEZ-SANCHEZ (Or. 11-18-2010)10-CR-73-BR.November 18, 2010
This matter comes before the Court on the Motion (#27) to Dismiss Indictment of Defendant Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez. For the reasons that follow, the Court GRANTS Defendant’s Motion…
cannot access further info…
Is their a seal order? I have the entire docket so if there is, it is recent.
B