Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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@In short, he was deported improperly, so he is not guilty of illegal re-entry, etc.
B (December 16, 2010 at 3:52 pm)
Is there any more you can post about this, or somewhere else I can read it without getting a PACER account?
Also, any info on his current deportation? (if it is the previous removal that was done improperly). Does this suppose that he somehow entered legally the last time? With Inspection?
Just a quick note to Oregon visiting Beejay.
The weather isn’t “always” so wet nor tornado generating.
We’re in one of those “Pineapple Express” rain events from Hawaii & La or El Nina – whatever -
It just makes the whole weather a “crap shoot”, so to speak.
Hope y’all are able to enjoy “dry spots” that break through.
JMHO
The rhetorical statement from TY, “If not Terri, then who” attempted to show that there is only one viable suspect for Kyron’s disappearance. Terri Horman is the only feasible suspect. Tony Young was not looking for another answer to his question. This was a rhetorical question. Kyron’s family knows precisely who is responsible for this crime.
NelMel says:
December 16, 2010 at 12:09 pm
The time period that LE questions — that 90 minutes of her aimlessly driving around with a sick child —
——————-
I have never believed that Kiara was in fact “sick” as TMH had originally stated to LE. I simply believe because an earache (that’s what I remember reading it was anyway) isn’t “visible” and when she came across AL that day at FM, she could easily lie and AL wouldn’t have had any reason to question it or that TMH was there getting her medicine for it.
I have always thought the whole “Kitty was sick” comments were a complete ruse and just good for TMH’s alibi. Why? Because Kaine stated that Kitty went with him when they all walked to the bus stop to get Kyron. A 2 yr old that’s so sick TMH had to allegedly “drive her around on side roads to try to get her to go to sleep” because she didn’t feel well going outside and walking on her own merits down their long driveway to go get her brother off the bus?
http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html
I don’t know about anyone else, but if my child is sick enough that they might have to be driven around for awhile to calm down, fall asleep, etc not to mention having an earache that needed medication, then I am not going to do any of the things TMH alleges she did that day, i.e. take my daughter to the gym with me or let her go outside to the bus stop to meet her brother. According to Kaine, Kitty was obviously well enough to even walk on her own merit as he put her shoes on and they walked down to the bus stop together. Doesn’t sound a bit like the “sick” child initially described to LE to me. FWIW
(snipped)
Q: Was Kaine working from home the day Kyron went missing? If so, when did Terri get home from the school?
A: KAINE – No, I was in the office that day until about 1:45 and arrived back home a little after 2pm. Terri was already in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived. I kissed Kiara, grabbed some food, and worked from my home office until about 3:30 at which time I put shoes on Kiara and we started walking down toward the bus stop.
I don’t know, but this has always been on my mind…Kyron took the bus to and from school most every day like most kids, right? Who would know what vehicle someone had or didn’t have on a certain day? Or, if he wasn’t going on the bus?
Interesting stuff about Terri’s facebook.
The camera’s installed at skyeline, are they specific to just that school or is this the recommended camera for all schools across the country? Anyone know?
@Midwest Mom
Midwest Mom says:
…“As for her actions after the 4th, according to interviews with KH on june 26th, he and TH, gave access to their home many times without a search warrant, turned over cell phones, had their truck towed by LE without a warrant, had hours of interviews with LE, took two polys, per FB made fliers available to be distributed AND let a flyer with her pic and truck be distributed locally and nationally in an effort to find Kyron and was done with her consent…”
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She failed 2 poly’s.
The flyer featured photos of Terri, Dede and a white truck. The flyer states that residents in the area are being asked if they noticed any of the people or vehicle featured on the flyer on June 4th between 9:45 and 1pm. The flyer (in pictures I’ve seen of it anyway) does not feature Kyron. If Terri, Dede and the white truck are not missing, and claim to have no knowledge what happened to Kyron that day, what do you think the purpose was in featuring them on the flyer?
To answer your other question “What would it mean to you if TH were completely innocent?…” —- If they found who did this and it turned out not to be TH, I would be relieved. Relieved that they found who did it, and also that the person who did it wasn’t someone who Kyron probably loved and trusted.
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@KRFox
Thanks for the laugh! I’ll probably carry on spewing absurdities and being completely unreasonable though…
Laurel Canyon says:
December 16, 2010 at 6:05 pm
snip
She failed 2 poly’s.
The flyer featured photos of Terri, Dede and a white truck. The flyer states that residents in the area are being asked if they noticed any of the people or vehicle featured on the flyer on June 4th between 9:45 and 1pm. The flyer (in pictures I’ve seen of it anyway) does not feature Kyron. If Terri, Dede and the white truck are not missing, and claim to have no knowledge what happened to Kyron that day, what do you think the purpose was in featuring them on the flyer?
__________________________________________________________________________________________
I have always thought that maybe the purpose of having DS and TH on the same flyer was so that potential witnesses could differentiate the looks of TH and DS so they could identify which one they saw.
Since they both had the same hair color and were somewhat overweight. JMO
Betty says:
December 16, 2010 at 5:18 pm
….Kyron’s family knows precisely who is responsible for this crime.
Why do you think they know this? Do you have an idea about who it is you think they think it is? Why would they know?
Not disputing your contention, just want more meat to go with it.
@Marci …
Is it your position that TH did not have a cell phone on her person in the days leading up to, including, and beyond June 4th?
11.TBZ says:
December 16, 2010 at 6:25 pm
I have gone back to look at some earlier info. One of the websites I relooked at was the Eyes for Lies. Relook at this website and the analysis on the first press conference.
http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2010/06/kyron-hormans-father-speaks-out.html
Intersting comments about KH. Although I don’t believe he had anything to do with his son disappearing…just wondering if some things that he want kept private was the reason for his nervousness…MOOO
Jden says:
December 15, 2010 at 9:46 pm
As per my comments above, does anyone know if this location (pumpkin patch) is in the vicinity of Cornelius Pass and Skyline that LE was asking for any information about a white truck in the area?
******
Yes, very close to Skyline on Old Cornelius Pass Road. About a minute’s drive. I have to say the connections on this guy are astounding. Sauvie Island Lavendar Farms, Pumpkin Patch, Electrical Engineer, Intel, Child at Skyline.
17.Laurel Canyon says:
December 16, 2010 at 10:58 am
Kyron may have ended up in the hands of a pedophile but I don’t think a pedophile kidnapped him. It will end up to be someone in TH circle of friend/acquaintences.
***
Perhaps the two are not mutually exclusive.
kjf says:
December 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm
I don’t know, but this has always been on my mind…Kyron took the bus to and from school most every day like most kids, right? Who would know what vehicle someone had or didn’t have on a certain day? Or, if he wasn’t going on the bus?
———————————
Only those acquainted with the Hormans would be aware of that information beforehand.
puzzled says:
December 16, 2010 at 6:53 pm
@Marci …
Is it your position that TH did not have a cell phone on her person in the days leading up to, including, and beyond June 4th?
**********************************************************************
Hi Puzzled.
Hope you don’t mind my 2 cents on the subject.
To me, the point is ….
We just don’t KNOW.
Like just about everything else in this case – the question of whether TMH had her cell phone in her possession that WHOLE day on 6/4 is an unknown to us.
She could have given it to someone else for a few hours on that day.
It’s possible, if TMH was more deeply involved in Kyron’s disappearance than just being someone who let the bad/dark people in their lives … then she may have planned details like this ahead of time.
She could have purposefully given her cell phone to another person so that she would not leave a trail of her true whereabouts that day.
Then, the trail left for LE to track would not show where TMH really went during that time period.
I personally feel TMH is involved in this somehow.
She has screamed GUILTY to me since the very first time I laid eyes on her.
But how much is she involved?
No clue.
A little?… she met some evil people who blind sided her – and they did everything from there.
More? … she helped plan and tried to cover her ass with small things like giving her cell phone to someone else so drive around with for the day?
Or more involved than that?
I just don’t know.
She doesn’t strike me as the mastermind of whatever happened June 4th. I think she had some help.
But TMH giving her phone to someone else so they would leave a false trail doesn’t seem like that would take much thought.
Blink says:
Respectfully, I have noticed that if people were of the mindset that TH premeditated what happened to Kyron no amount of evidence to the contrary is being absorbed.
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I am sincerely unaware of any known evidence that contradicts the possibility that TH premeditated Kyron’s disappearance – whether or not he was taken from the school by a different person.
Ok, understood, what evidence are you aware of that proves she premeditated so much as buying a loaf of bread that day? Evidence is a name for a physical/direct or circumstantial fact relevant to a possible violation of criminal code.
Opinions or rumors are not evidence.
B
puzzled says:
It is emotionally safer to blame one person as the evil-doer who let the vampire in rather than address the bigger issue of pedophilia. Characterizing someone a sociopathic psycho means we’re not like them, so “this” couldn’t happen to my family.
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It is not either/or, in my opinion. One can have a keen awareness of the growing problem of pedophilia while simultaneously believing TH is responsible for the disappearance of Kyron.
I live in Portland. We have online access to addresses of every registered sex offender in every ZIP code in the city. In addition, there is a vast awareness that growing numbers of child predators lurk within our neighborhoods who have never been identified.
It is this very awareness that prompts parents and grandparents to never allow our children/grandchildren to be out or walk anywhere alone (not even next door), and to never take our eyes off of them when out in public.
I realize fully that being victimized by a pedophile could “happen to my family” if any of us let our guard down. However, this awareness is exclusive of my belief that TH is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance, an opinion based solely upon her words and actions.
TBZ says:
December 16, 2010 at 6:58 pm
I read that same site. I agree KH has tried to keep a sense of privacy amid all the mayhem. Depending on what info the public and media would have a field day with, some issues still seeped out.
kjf says:
December 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm
I don’t know, but this has always been on my mind…Kyron took the bus to and from school most every day like most kids, right? Who would know what vehicle someone had or didn’t have on a certain day? Or, if he wasn’t going on the bus?
———————————
Terri and Kaine
Or maybe some people she talked to when she took the project to the school on June 3.
Marci says:
December 16, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Deductive reasoning does not make indisputable facts.. Not trying to start something at all but that is a big claim to make about facts when LE has been very tight lipped about all of this..
For instance do we even know if Terri had her phone on her? Did a friend have it? Maybe people have stated there isn’t even towers on SI so how could they know within feet where she was??
I think we have to be careful in what we think is JMO and what are truly facts…
________________________________________________________________________________________________
I for one believe that LE knew where TH was at at ll times on June 4 because of the following statement made by Blink.
They know within feet where Terri was the entire day. What they need to know, is where Kyron was.
B
Correct.
B
@Sammy …
you’re 2 cents are welcome anytime … the point is not TH’s phone, it is “a” phone. If TH had in her possession “any” cell phone with GPS, LE confiscated it and knows where that phone was at all times. In fact, LE confiscated all the cell phones, bat phones, friends phones they could and they have been systematically analyzed over the last 7 months.
Turning off a cell phone does not disable the GPS. The battery has to be removed. If you recall, part of the suspicion of DDS was because her phone was left in her vehicle that day and did not travel on her person leaving her without a verifiable alibi.
It is possible TH did not have a cell phone on her, however it was reported that she showed a picture of Ky from the SF that AM to a witness at FMs and it is reasonable to assume that was her cell phone. Hence she had the cell phone at Skyline and with her at FM, an hour after leaving the school.
You are correct when saying we just don’t know. However, there are some basic assumptions that can be made based on what little we do know… and one is, if TH had a cell with GPS on her that day, LE knows where she was.
Blink said:
Respectfully, I have noticed that if people were of the mindset that TH premeditated what happened to Kyron no amount of evidence to the contrary is being absorbed.
————————————–
Nancy said:
I am sincerely unaware of any known evidence that contradicts the possibility that TH premeditated Kyron’s disappearance – whether or not he was taken from the school by a different person.
————
Blink said:
Ok, understood, what evidence are you aware of that proves she premeditated so much as buying a loaf of bread that day? Evidence is a name for a physical/direct or circumstantial fact relevant to a possible violation of criminal code.
Opinions or rumors are not evidence.
B
———————-
Blink, I agree with you about the term “evidence”.
You mentioned above that there are those with the mindset that TH premeditated Kyron’s disappearance who are not absorbing “evidence to the contrary”. I replied that I was unaware that evidence to the contrary existed, and I meant that sincerely.
I have stated (not in this comment, but in others) my “opinion” that TH is responsible for the premeditated crime of Kyron’s disappearance, based upon her words and actions. However, I do not and did not claim to have “evidence” she did so.
Fair enough and well said.
B
cd says:
December 16, 2010 at 9:36 pm
kjf says:
December 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm
I don’t know, but this has always been on my mind…Kyron took the bus to and from school most every day like most kids, right? Who would know what vehicle someone had or didn’t have on a certain day? Or, if he wasn’t going on the bus?
———————————
Terri and Kaine
Or maybe some people she talked to when she took the project to the school on June 3. I should also add Kyron’s teacher.
let me amend my comments to Sammy.
If TH took the battery out of the cell phone after the 2nd FM and then headed into never never land, the cell phone GPS would not be tracking. Sammy and Marci are correct in this point.
I made an assumption that the cell phone remained operational while TH traveled around for 90 minutes.
Sammy, you are correct. We do not know if this is what happened and it would add to the suspicion as to what TH was up to and who with for 90 minutes.
I concede. Good thinking … high five
Seriously, if LE has a description, why in the world have they not shared that information with the public or at least, the Skyline community? I need a straight logical answer, not a imaginative theory, since I can concoct those aplenty.
On the face of it, none of TH’s behavior since Kyron’s abduction exemplifies a person completely shocked that her step-son was snatched.
If I were a Skyline parent with the understanding that LE was purposely withholding information about a horrid person who brazenly yanked a child from the safety of an elementary school my child attended, believe me, I would be getting some answers.
So all along, LE has really been trying to identify and find a seasoned pedo who conveniently is connected with TH in some disgusting way? And all the MSM attention to her icky lifestyle is a ruse to embarrass her into talking about the pedo? And they are not arresting her for the icky side of her life, which is no doubt, illegal, because…………………???? If they don’t believe she is culpable in Kyron’s disappearance, then what was all the focus on her in the million plus dollar investigation?
But logically, TH is no Keyzer Soze.
B
****
That’s for sure
Did run across another “Kiecer” while researching TMH’s extracurricular activities. I get the Russian signs now. UGGH.
Possibility: Terri’s movements and actions on 6/4/10 could be nothing but “noise” either intended to distract or just indicative of the nutbag she is.
Sad Reality: The lack of a suspect or any physical evidence may not necessarily indicate that the perfect crime was committed. It may just indicate that the crime(s) went unnoticed for long enough for the perpetrator to cover tracks and move on.
Ask yourself this – Which is more believable for a woman with Terri’s track record: 1) An airtight logical alibi with no physical evidence, or 2) A chaotic yet indisputable alibi with no physical evidence?
Here is a thought out of the ordinary. The gardner friend of Terry’s would have access to fertilizer that can decompose a body in no time. Her disappearance from work for a certain amount of time on the day that Kyron disappeared could certainly open the door for questions regarding her whereabouts and an inventory of the lawn products she has access to. It appears that she and Terry keep in very close contact and she is (ill)advising Terry. Any thoughts on this?
Nancy says:
December 16, 2010 at 8:20 pm
kjf says:
December 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm
I don’t know, but this has always been on my mind…Kyron took the bus to and from school most every day like most kids, right? Who would know what vehicle someone had or didn’t have on a certain day? Or, if he wasn’t going on the bus?
———————————
Only those acquainted with the Hormans would be aware of that information beforehand.
****************************
….Or someone who could see them drive by and would recognize TH’s red hair as she went past in either the mustang or the white truck. Any neighbor in that vicinity of her Skyline route was capable of seeing her drive past-especially if they knew the time she usually went by and maybe had a good pair of binos. I’m sure that TH went to Skyline on occasion, maybe more often than we realize. So if she drove by at the normal time for Skyline to open, then someone would know she was most likely taking Kyron to school, no matter what day it was. JMO
Also, if suspect Z was friends with TH on facebook and maybe in real life too-they may have been messaging each other and he would know her schedule easily. Especially if he was a Skyline parent. I picture messages like:
TH-Are you going to the SF?
SZ-Of course, how about you?
TH-Yep, will see you there then.
SZ-Cool, the exhibits should be awesome.
TH-For sure, see you there.
My ideas only, above.
If another Skyline parent was suspect Z those conservations would seem perfectly normal. But as messages, only TH and SZ would be aware of them. No red flags out there for anyone else to see, except for LE when they reviewed her electronic trail.
@justice4kyron
justice4kyron says:
December 16, 2010 at 8:09 pm
17.Laurel Canyon says:
December 16, 2010 at 10:58 am
Kyron may have ended up in the hands of a pedophile but I don’t think a pedophile kidnapped him. It will end up to be someone in TH circle of friend/acquaintences.
***
Perhaps the two are not mutually exclusive.
—————————————
Laurel Canyon didn’t say the above – that was iodizedseasalt. But I do agree with you.
Blink,
Any clues in Skyline Ridge Neighbors Newsletter & website photos / minutes (oddly no 2009 or 2007) but go to this year, start after June 4th.
http://www.srnpdx.org/2008-summer-gathering
S-KY Ridge News site is filled with info and pictures of peeps that live in that area. Some pictures may look like PPP guy (jk).
Aside: Anyone find it odd that his ppp website tells SCHOOL buses exactly how to find him. So, JK does have a small electronic footprint. What about those plastic people containers people are riding in, see PPP site. White big plastic barrels, are made into little cars and then hooked to a train like thing pulled by a farm tractor
That made me think of a container easy to weight down and toss to sea.
Click on You Tube video from web site–there are many Plumber Pumpkin videos. Odd?
In the S-KY-line Ridge Neighbors News September minutes, three police people came to meeting, have been present ever since.
Here is why: MCSO gave 4 deputies plus 3 detectives for 753 square miles, from Rocky Point Rd. to Lake Oswego, full time duty to watch the area. Why? What are they watching for?
Any strange activity, loud noises or disturbances, strange vehicles in area, anything out of ordinary. Call 911 to report any and all strange activity.
Was TH instructed perhaps the same early on, so did so during sting?
Deputy attended several of Board meetings, held at Brooks Hill Historic Church.
From pictures it seems this is where “Gathering” is every year.
One picture on site shows sign 2008, Skyline School Sign, “STRANGERS WELCOME” how ironic!
http://www.srnpdx.org/2008-summer-gathering
Is it possible that below-radar perp name is not on list?
You cannot tell me that MCSO put full time detectives/deputies in area if they do not think perp is close to school. MCSO is on case like flies on sh*t! I think they’re watching and watching.
Have S-KY families gone through shoeboxes of photos? I would bet a picture of perp is at one of these functions. Perp had to have had access to KY and to TH.
Ky, come out, come out wherever you are.
I think MCSO is in a most unenviable position. Honestly, were I to be asked what I recommend in the parental community of that school?
I would start a support group, and I would get the parents talking about whether they had a creep factor about “who” that day, and any other day, and have a trained and certified child therapist monitoring should they need to “takeaway” issues to discuss at home.
Town Hall format, private to parents, with security support.
I am just not comfortable with the “isolated incident” designation.
We have all heard that although it seems Kaine and Desiree feel strongly Terri is involved, and she certainly may be, I have also heard them profess adamantly she had help. If that’s true, you have an individual with everything to lose should they be caught walking around your community.
One of the things that shocked me when the list of attendees came out, was how very few adults were there.
If everyone had been identified, what would be the point of that correspondence?
I would bet money suspect zero was back at that school after the incident to avoid suspicion.
B
FrannieT says:
December 16, 2010 at 3:45 pm
While checking out the link http://www.123people.com/s/jim+kessinger
which was in a prior post above, I saw something disturbing as well. There’s a photo of people riding a mini-train. Enlarge it…sure looks like Kyron in the sleeveless blue shirt, riding with a man and woman!! Please look! Is there any way to find out when and where the photo was taken??
——————————
This is a collection of pictures from various people with the same or similar name. If you look at the local Jim K’s FB page it does not show all these pictures. I believe the train picture is taken at Shady Dell in Molalla although there isn’t much to identify it.
http://www.pnls.org/ (includes a slide show)
I do not think the child is Kyron.
There is no live steam related “like” on this Jim K’s FB page either. There are a few farms around here that have children’s train rides, but to my knowledge, none of them have a setting like the one I linked to above.
I hope this helps.
Hi, most highly esteemed Blink and Blinksters.
This is TOTALLY FWIW and MYO: My hit upon reading TK’s description of seeing Kyron by the white truck (through the walls of the gym) was deep and to the gut, then when I saw the FB photo of JK, I felt even more sick to my stomach…in our house we call it “the creep-ometer.”
Imaginary statement by JK: “I saw Kyron talking with someone by TH’s white pickup when I was leaving the parking lot. You can just tell [LE] that you saw him there, too. You don’t want the farm’s name to come up; it’s our LIVELIHOOD, and people need to feel safe to bring their CHILDREN there.” Dissociated dependent tween’s response: “Oh, yeah.”
FWIW and MYO to the hundredth power, but from one who’s “been there”…
I need to type with my brain, not my fingers! “those conversations-not conservations! Geez…
So if LE did have a facial recognition scan of a perf then they could run it against say the DMV database to get an ID match much like a fingerprint? Was there any video taken by a parent at the SF? and can this software be used on a video image? Does anyone here know.
snip
Since July 1, 2008, Oregon DMV has been using “facial recognition” software, a new tool in the prevention of fraud and identity theft. The law, created by the 2005 Oregon Legislature, is designed to prevent someone from obtaining a driver license or ID card under a false name or under multiple names.
Possible, I guess, but I would think they would have to have a named suspect to cross databases for a warrant.
B
In regards to recent comments made about those of us who are trying to make sense out of a senseless tragedy please let me remind you that while we may disagree about a subject we can disagree respectfully. There is a certain “tone” that is coming across now from a few people that makes me wonder what exactly their purpose here is. I, for one, refuse to take the bait and banter back and forth to make this blog look like OL or GLP.
We are a group of people that are trying to figure out what in the hell happened to a little boy who went to school one day and never came home. Most of us that are looking for “more” than just TH are NOT doing so because we don’t think TH had something to do with Kyron disappearance, but because we want every sleazy asshole that participated in this to be caught and held accountable.
Please don’t come back to me with demands of my evidence, that would make me have to come back to you with a demand for yours and THAT’s when this board’s level of intelligence drops to the level of OL and GLP.
This board has a monitor and her name is Blink, I’m pretty sure she will keep us on track and not as “all over the place” as some would think we are. Personally I like her “roll and scroll” mantra and suggest we all (myself included) start doing more of that and less ridiculing others ideas, suggestions, or work. One more thing, before you jump me for saying this last paragraph let me add MOO and IMOO. (Sorta like sayin’ “bless his/her heart” after you’ve said something someone may think is mean)
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
My first post, so please go easy! Reading here and at SM everyday, and I have a “what if?” to offer for thought. I wondered what could be the reason that TH moved out, gave up house, visiting rights with daughter and stopped talking: what if someone has enough personal info/material on her to make her do those things? What if someone threatened to release info/photos/damaging material, etc., unless she moved out, went away, gave up visitation, stopped talking? Someone, perhaps, who doesn’t want info she has to get out? Just wondering…
Ms. B….Would the chain of evidence issue regarding the sexting..i.e. who had whose phone…create a problem for LE when trying to connect TH to Sauvie Island on 6/4?…
No, not if that is where she was. I am confident the Secret Service portion of the program, among other possibilities is their proprietary software that triangulates trajectories, if GPS enabled, runs both through a topo grid (intentional oversimplification) and depending upon the location of cell towers and satellites, could tell you within yards where her phone was, assuming it is/was on her person.
B
I would bet money suspect zero was back at that school after the incident to avoid suspicion.
B
Interesting. Blending in because he/she’s a familiar face? In a small school, “the big people” stand out. Volunteer? I bet with the SF there were few needed to set up/take down tables, clean up, etc. Could this be the “until 12″ timeline adjustment mentioned a week ago or so?
TMH’s smartphone use/GPS info is intriguing. I have never removed my batt, but that could be a possibility if there is unaccounted for time with TMH that LE still doesn’t know where she was. Maybe the GPS at SI was the last signal?
The thot plickens…
Blink says, “One of the things that shocked me when the list of attendees came out, was how very few adults were there.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I did not see the list, nor do I want to, but are you saying, Blink, that most of the 200+ individuals on the list were children?
No, some, but over the time period, given the layout of the school, and the different classrooms it encompassed, it would not qualify for me as “chaotic” or unmanagable.
@ Zeus and
@ kjf says:
December 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm
I don’t know, but this has always been on my mind…Kyron took the bus to and from school most every day like most kids, right? Who would know what vehicle someone had or didn’t have on a certain day? Or, if he wasn’t going on the bus?
_________________
Almost anyone who cared to listen in on her electronic communications, it seems–i.e, any PEDO who was stalking Ky and was tech-savvy. Also, a wireless range-extending device would be easy to place on the Horman property, if needed to extend one’s ability to do surveillance. Remember our discussion about keyloggers? IIRC, I posted the name of one manufacturer. And everyone who she sent several email msgs everyday–ie, Desiree, Tony. Kaine.
Who else??? Well, another entry point is the school district itself.
Did you read at the PPS links I posted yesterday? PPS district is going wireless with their network, containing everything about students, families, the FACILITIES. Wireless is SO easy to hack. Look at all the PPS depts that are on the network! OMG
Ok, understood, what evidence are you aware of that proves she premeditated so much as buying a loaf of bread that day? Evidence is a name for a physical/direct or circumstantial fact relevant to a possible violation of criminal code.
Opinions or rumors are not evidence.
B
Honestly this is getting outrageous. You say people who believe Terri premeditated this crime are unable to absorb any other evidence and I contend that people who feel she didn’t are unable to absorb evidence to the contrary. Whether people want to admit it or not this site has become biased to the theory that Terri isn’t responsible. Anyone who believes otherwise is insulted and belittled I have seen it happen time and time again. On the other hand as long as you believe she’s not responsible feel free to throw any wild theory out there. I think those of us who are not in law enforcement are going on simple logic here.
First she claims to drive around for an hour and half with a sick child but then proceeds to go on with the rest of her day as if the child is perfectly fine. Who takes their sick child to a gym day care?
After Kyron goes missing she proceeds to send out emails defending herself with no concern for Kyron. Also no one will ever make me belive Kyron was having those so called mini seizures and she didn’t tell his mother. Where was her concern for Kyron in those emails, or anywhere for that matter?
Then she goes on to the sexting. I couldn’t care less whos phone it was on, she was sexting while her son was missing. Once again in those text messages WHERE IS THE CONCERN FOR KYRON?
She loses custody of her daughter but refuses to fight for her because she doesn’t want to incriminate herself. Incriminate herself for what??? What could be so bad that she would not fight for her daughter? Not a simple affair.
Lastly, I have said it before and I’ll say it again; Kaine and Desiree 100% believe Terri is responsible and I’m sure they have reasons we aren’t aware of. These parents want their son back they aren’t at all interested in setting Terri up. You can’t get any closer to the case than they are so if they tell us she’s responsible I believe them.
This list doesn’t even cover everything it’s just a few of the common-sense reasons people believe she is responsible. Some of us are just normal everyday citizens living life. Mothers and Fathers who know what is and isn’t the normal behavior for a grieving parent.
Respectfully, you are apparently not following my comments because I have never discounted that TH may be responsible, in fact, I have stated in some form of complicity, she is.
This is exactly my point, nobody is belittling anyone who believes he is involved, logic dictates she is.
However, logic also dictates, as does the known evidence in this case, that she could not have acted alone as KYRON DID NOT LEAVE WITH HER.
We need to stop the collective mentality of Camp TH or Camp Kaine/Desiree and focus on Camp Kyron.
Say we all agree Terri is responsible to some degree, or to the nth degree, right?
YOU STILL HAVE AN ACCOMPLICE OUT THERE. Er go.. if you want to nail her, you need to nail who Kyron actually left with. Placing 100% blame on the woman, is also contradictory to what Kaine and Desiree have said. That is what LE is focused on, I promise.
I do not know what your logistics are, but I am in touch with several families right in the middle of this, and not one of them, who has kids at the school, thinks TH, if she is involved, perpetrated this on her own.
B
@jan: you said, “MCSO gave 4 deputies plus 3 detectives for 753 square miles, from Rocky Point Rd. to Lake Oswego, full time duty to watch the area.”
I’m so happy to hear that. And just on the off-chance that Timur is active again, they’re watching the area where he’s living now. Whether involved with Ky or not, I’d be so happy for Timur to have LE eyes on him.
My last comment, promised. If I miss the weekend lunch date it’ll be because I can’t make it back from CA in time. (Gotta pick up a friend.)
My tech friends are gonna take the use of my electronics away from me for awhile. Ya’ll keep up the good work!
jan says:
December 17, 2010 at 1:04 am
@jan and Blink – regarding both your posts – WOW! I had to read twice to absorb it all. I wonder if the correspondence was meant to rattle someone they are watching – they are hoping that SZ will slip up.
@ Blink we will have to agree to disagree on one thing. The people who believe terri is responsible (and by responsible I mean more than blindsided) are constantly belittled and talked down to.
I do not agree with that, so we will have to agree to disagree. I think in general people feel that way when others may not agree with them and it is natural. It happens to me as well.
I really have to say, I see very little opinions or comments that think TH is innocent, so I have to admit that part of your comment is puzzling.
I will say this, I will keep my eye out for that, and will correct it if I see it.
There should never be a situation where a difference of opinion, presented respectfully, belittles another.
B
YOU STILL HAVE AN ACCOMPLICE OUT THERE. Er go.. if you want to nail her, you need to nail who Kyron actually left with. Placing 100% blame on the woman, is also contradictory to what Kaine and Desiree have said. That is what LE is focused on, I promise.
Also I don’t place 100% blame on her, I 100% agree she had an accomplice. But as you said logic dictates she is involved; I think what we may not agree on is her level of involvment.
I guess my point was, just because I may believe she’s involved all the way up to her eyeballs that doesn’t mean I’m narrowminded and unable to absorb knew evidence. I have tried to make this point here before and can’t seem to get it across but I firmly believe that the people who don’t believe she’s involved are just as narrowminded but they are never called on it…
Unless you are aware of something I am not, and I feel pretty strongly about my resources in this case, your comment about her level of involvement is what I mean, and I say that with respect, not to belittle, but to point out that I think that opinion , and you have every right to it, is premature.
I think the issue you are having when you say, “I have tried to get it across before”, is that the very notion you are so convinced makes it seem that you are not open to the possibilities that have not been excluded in this case. It is as if you feel you failed at getting your point across because others continue to have a different opinion.
Again, I say with much respect, I learn more from posters that think differently than I do, than those that do, on any given subject.
Unless I missed it, I could probably count on one hand in over 4000 comments anyone that believes she is 100% innocent.
I hope I have addressed this issue to your satisfaction and readers continue to be respectful and stay focused on the task at hand, which is not “being right” about our critical thinking pathways, but being supportive and focused on the facts at hand, and s they become known.
Lastly, I can assure you if there is a poster or posters that do believe 100% in TH innocence and are not open to the possibility, they will/would be called out in a hearbeat, and have been.
B
I don’t think it is far fetched to think that SZ could have been an intelligent adult who belonged at Skyline Elementary, that day. How many kids go to Skyline again? 290? According to the statistics, approximately 29 kids at that school may be vulnerable at the hands of a family member, acquantance, relative, friend, teacher or stranger. TH may have been friends with one of those people and not aware that she was handing Kyron off to a Pedo. Maybe she was aware and didn’t care. Either case, it seems apparent to me she just wanted Ky gone. See below link for the shocking statistics and info about this sickening truth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Statistics only come from reporting, so we don’t have accurate, objective numbers. But based on the reports we have, it’s believed that 1 in 3 girls is sexually abused, and a general consensus of 1 in 5 to 1 in 7 boys is sexually abused.
http://www.allaboutcounseling.com/sexual_abuse.htm#sa3
Blink to your knowledge was Kyron seen outside of the school with the perp?. I know Desiree made a statement that Kyron was seen outside by a white truck but have any of your contacts stated this?
Or was someone only seen removing a container of sorts?
Where did Kyron’s scent end?
Did he actually leave the school?
Could he have been removed later when parents were loading/picking up projects?
Case sensitive, sorry.
B