Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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@17. Re school parents. I believed the profile was a serial predator pedo who takes & kills, rather than a garden variety pedo. I dont think the former would chose a child in his own school where he visits regularly. I see him traveling, coming to the area episodically. And, usually sublimated. Maybe the time of year, close of school year had meaning. Perhaps someone taking classes that meant a lot to him, cant handle finals pressure, threat of failing. Maybe had a business failure. Maybe divorcing. Perhaps a close parent died then
a garden variety pedo I think would have ongoing acting out, to me, in the same location, ie scouts, church. I knew one in ’75 as a youth director–always had the camping overnights when I was away. he was allowed to resign and go teach at a denominational el ed.
I like the idea of someone who did traveling work at the school, or a transient staffer, but not a parent.
jan says:
December 18, 2010 at 11:31 pm
The AUMC church FB photos are beyond creepy. Leapfrog with adults, places for boys to hide-sand pit, barrel… notice where youth leader “B” knee is touching the boy in the group shot.
The ppp photos – two different shots of the KyH look-alike in the same, very abnormal position – I noticed those the moment I searched and opened up the site. And apparently the owner of the ppp likes to consume alcohol beverages during the family days.
Between the two sites, we see an over-abundance of young boys in crouched positions. Very strange, indeed.
It seems to me, in retrospect, LE’s initial focus–find the boy–was a search mission of the physical landscape, not a search for a taker. Then LE shifted to investigating TH rather than the physical search. I dont see where any focus went, then, to a serial predator. Right quickly, as well, there was the divorce brouhaha. The possibility of a SZ seems to have been lost that first evening.
We have been told that TH wanted Ky with her to tour the SF, then she left, according to her at about 8:45. There were two Skyline students that have publicly said they saw Ky. TP passed him in the hall when Ky was going to see the “cool electric one.” A seventh grader saw him in the gym. According to DY, someone saw him near the truck. According to TH’s email, someone must have seen him with a man and two girls. LE has said that TH was the last person to see KH. It has also been stated that a student saw him at 9. Although we do not have time frames on these statement, LE does, so they must have some idea, how and when Ky moved through the school, and where and when he disappeared.
My question is after seeing him with TH at the science fair, and then having him absent for not only class, but the talent show, what did the teacher think was going on? There must have been something in her mind that made her think his absence was planned, otherwise it would have been reported. If the teacher did report the absence, then did the office drop the ball on this? Perhaps no one at the office saw Ky that morning and thought nothing of it that he was not at school. Did they call the Horman home, not get an answer, leave a message? What went wrong?
“She is either involved and waiting for the boom to be lowered.
OR
She is guilty of being a cruel step-mom who had it out for a 7 year old, with a broken moral compass, and may have wanted to off Kaine for as yet unknown reasons, and she has no idea what happened to Kyron.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Option 2 (above) would make Terri a statistical anomaly.
What is the chance that a mother writes a hateful email about her stepchild and within a short time, a pedophile chooses that particular child to abduct?
Equally odd, and statistically unusual––what is the chance that in a mainstream suburban American family, the father becomes the unknowing target of a murder-for-hire arranged by his wife, and that in this *same* family the father’s child goes missing, possibly abducted by a pedophile, and the wife has no idea what happened to him?
It defies logic. Although technically, it is possible that a mother could despise her child AND she could unsuccessfully plan to have her husband murdered AND her son could be the random victim of a predatory pedophile but wouldn’t logic tell us that those occurrences are related?
43.Rose says:
December 19, 2010 at 9:19 pm
It seems to me, in retrospect, LE’s initial focus–find the boy–was a search mission of the physical landscape, not a search for a taker. Then LE shifted to investigating TH rather than the physical search.
~~~
sounds about right
Kimberly says:
December 19, 2010 at 8:23 pm
What is your opinion on what or where the RS issue goes
or not?
~~~
unless he’s a serial pedophile .. no where. Had this been another classification of pedophile .. I would have thought LS Associate would fit the bill.
Opportunist Sexual Predator Pedophile- Highly organized offender, serial … is very precise!!!
@Rosey …
I know, it’s all so very disturbing. The public does not now have the right information to identify and locate this offender. LE doesn’t have the right information. That’s the problem.
People are still trying to stuff a square peg (information previously known) into a round hole (the now reality) and wondering why it doesn’t fit.
@Graceinthehills: true about profiling.
I’d also add that while “the serial pedophile does not act in collusion with a hoochie mamma to select his victim”, if there were others involved and depending on the bizarre circumstances that may have led to this, there could certainly be some collaboration re: the timing. I think the 6 hour lead time and no concern from the new and hearing-impaired teacher point to something other than “opportunity” on the part of the abductor.
Blink, your source re: the face that Kyron didn’t leave with TH–this is an impeccable source who knows with certainty (like evidence or eye-witness or both), true? That’s the impression I’ve gotten, esp since you didn’t correct my earlier post re: this, but I don’t want to assume.
Also, while I’m asking, Blink, do you have the feeling that LE is switching to random, opportunistic abduction mode? That doesn’t seem to fit with what Staton said in the Dec interview about progress & wrapping it up. Just trying to make some sense here. Val’s comments at Hinky are opposite this, and while I know you two don’t have to agree or compare notes
I’m just plain confused at this point about where the investigation stands.
No electronic footprint, but has masterful IT skills
~~~
something else to think about … this guy is not yahooing on the world wide web as you and I know it. Probably has a data farm outside the US and his own web.
@puzzled says:
December 19, 2010 at 11:36 pm
No electronic footprint, but has masterful IT skills
~~~
something else to think about … this guy is not yahooing on the world wide web as you and I know it. Probably has a data farm outside the US and his own web
—————————————-
Something to think about. What if the “perp” turns out to be a gal and not a guy…would you be surprised?
@enumclawrose says “As I read on, neighbor qualifies the statement”
You can skip the middle man. I am here. Nothing to add though.
puzzled says:
December 19, 2010 at 11:32 am
I do believe she had enough bad behavior .. The behavior showed up .. coincidently, and only because her stepson disappeared …
The rest of TH’s behavior becomes fodder for divorce court … still yet to be determined.
the evidence and witnesses went before (according to B) 3 GJ, who did not indict .. anyone. This is a critical point. There was no direct evidence to indict TH for the disappearance of KyH. This and the MFH were the only potential crimes of TH that they were tasked with determining if indeed a crime had been committed.
MCSO .. who was running the show .. had no reason to suspect a serial pedophile. That came from FBI.
———————————–
I would like to respectfully address areas where there may be misunderstanding.
–Of the hundreds of Portlanders I have spoken with over the past few months who believe TH is guilty of the disappearance of Kyron, what is not included in the equation are her supposed divorce-court type behaviors: possible affairs, sexting, drinking, etc.
Included in the equation, however, are the known words and actions of TH that directly relate to Kyron’s disappearance – words and actions so numerous, inexplicable and suspect that it is difficult to discount each and every one as mere coincidence.
–According to local news reports there is one grand jury, not three, who has met for at least three sessions and will likely continue to meet sporadically for months as the investigation continues.
In addition, there has been no public information released regarding what the GJ has been tasked with, whether or when the GJ has/will be asked to vote to hand down indictment(s) or what crime(s) are even being considered – since it is unknown by LE whether Kyron is dead or alive.
Sheriff Staton stated there is no direct “physical” evidence, which may or may not indicate that no direct evidence exists. I do not believe anyone, besides the DA and members of the GJ, can state with certainty the totality of testimony the GJ has heard – or even who the suspect(s) are at this point.
–It would make sense that LE’s initial reaction was that Kyron wandered from school, considering TH’s accounts of his wandering and seizures occurring at that time. However, we are not publicly privy to if and when the FBI provided a serial-pedophile profile.
Sheriff Staton stated recently that the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance had become so wide that he directed the task force to narrow it down. If Staton is to be taken at his word, the focus has not been singularly on TH, and other avenues have indeed been explored.
–It is my belief that we lack adequate knowledge or evidence at this juncture to state absolutely the guilt or innocence of any of the player(s), some of whom may be presently unknown.
While we each hold our own personal opinions regarding this case, I believe our ultimate desire is to see all person(s) guilty of Kyron’s disappearance brought to justice – whether or not we correctly predict the outcome.
Blink,
Thoughts:
1. The List – The Cool Electric
Ky went to look for the SF “cool electric one,” as reported in news.
Here is what is strange:
The child that spoke to news, a 7th grader, TK, told reporters, and FBI, that he saw Horman truck in parking lot.
Could he have been coached as to what to say by his parent(s)?
News reports state that K-family was present at SF. So, Ky went to see the “cool electric one.” Cool SF projects were done by older children; TK had a project on antimatter.
I believe that Ky met the Suspect Zero, at Ground Zero, the “cool electric one” and that is where they intersected to be together and to eventually, be alone together. Student TK was with his family; Ky was not with family, he was alone at “Anti-Matter” SF project, but with K-family.
Is JK listed on the “list,” was he there or not? Why do they say K-family, and not just “the mother” of Tyler? I think it is because dad, JK was there.
2. Ky in Bathroom, also a SF 6/4/10 comment
Could TH have been planting “wandering”-seeds since at least Nov around MFH time?
Look at TH FB caption under Ky’s (Ms. Porter’s) class picture in November 12, 2009:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=861618&id=1264414625&fbid=1284531314426#!/photo.php?pid=866720&id=1264414625&fbid=1286441922190
TH: “Where was Kyron do you ask? Yeah, he went to the bathroom without telling anyone, sigh”
Another link option: scroll to #51 here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8203.40
3. No Evidence
Can local video shops info trace who’s seen Guy Ritchie movies around months leading to incident?
Film producer, Guy Ritchie warns about pig farmers in movie scene:
http://wn.com/snatch__brick_top_warns_about_pig_farmers
It is said that a pig can devour a human body in a manner of a few hours, no evidence, no trace.
School took cafeteria saved scraps to feed to pigs. Who are the pig farmer recipients?
S.I. has pig farms; known S.I. family posts about pig roasts.
If one were to feed a human to a pig, then that is the end of the trail, because there is no more evidence.
This case is so disturbing.
18.puzzled says:
December 19, 2010 at 11:32 am
“In reading the FBI profile, I can tell you that a serial pedophile does not act in collusion with a hoochie mamma, to select his victim. This type of criminal personality is keen on recognizing and taking advantage of vulnerable situations.”
———————————-
puzzled says:
December 19, 2010 at 11:26 pm
People are still trying to stuff a square peg (information previously known) into a round hole (the now reality) and wondering why it doesn’t fit.
——————————-
I may be misreading this, but the comments about the “FBI Profile” and “now reality” seem to be stated as fact, not opinion. I am confused and must have missed new information on Kyron’s case.
.
Has the FBI determined that a serial pedophile took Kyron from the school? If so, when was this reported?
What is “the now reality”? How do we know it is reality? Was this part of the FBI report on Kyron’s case.
I am so confused my head is spinning!!
Blink,
jan says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 19, 2010 at 6:42 pm
If Skyline families come together, could you be moderator?
This comment awaiting moderation: Feel free to edit if I’m pushing the envelope.
Keep up the good work you do.
I am not local, so I would say that counts me out.
B
Jackie Bauer says:
Val’s comments at Hinky are opposite this, and while I know you two don’t have to agree or compare notes
I’m just plain confused at this point about where the investigation stands.
——————————–
Klaasand at SM also believes TH is the mastermind – which is simply to say that even moderators of crime websites can’t agree!
Of course we do not always agree, but we always respect each other’s opinions. We have different sources, and different networks, and yes, sometimes think differently.
TH may be the mastermind, but until I see evidence of that, and not opinions, or every other possibility can be excluded, imo, we run the risk of missing something critical to the case.
Logically she is involved, but logic is not evidence.
B
mosaic says:
December 19, 2010 at 11:15 pm
It defies logic. Although technically, it is possible that a mother could despise her child AND she could unsuccessfully plan to have her husband murdered AND her son could be the random victim of a predatory pedophile but wouldn’t logic tell us that those occurrences are related?
—————————————-
Agreed.
Rose says:
December 19, 2010 at 9:19 pm
It seems to me, in retrospect, LE’s initial focus–find the boy–was a search mission of the physical landscape, not a search for a taker. The possibility of a SZ seems to have been lost that first evening.
———————————
This is sadly so correct Rose.
With TH’s focus on Kyron’s wandering, unfortunately LE was looking for a child who had wandered off rather than a perpetrator who took him. Just as planned, in my opinion.
Coincidence that Kyron supposedly started wandering just two weeks prior to June 4? Coincidence that it was so bad TH made a doctor appointment just the day before? Coincidence that TH mentioned it to people at his school but not his parents? Coincidence that TH was the only family member who noticed it?
@ enumclawrose says:
December 19, 2010 at 10:39 pm
————————-
Really, your points are important. It seems at least 3-4 versions of “where was Kyron” in the school that morning, and who saw him and where they saw him, are massively inconsistent from too many people.
Didn’t make it to class? Made it to class and got into a SF tour group? Didn’t get into a group? Was in a group for just a few minutes? Was in the group for the full tour but didn’t make it back to class after the tour? Never seen by TH in the hallway as she stated? Did a student and adult or teacher really stand around waiting for Kyron to get out of the bathroom? Did that adult say “Ok, I’m leaving” because someone else confirmed Kyron was absent? What teacher or adult chaperon would just walk away from where a young child was missing and “assume” ANYTHING about his whereabouts??? What? WHAT???
Does LE not know the answers to the above? Does LE know the answers? Are they working on a Ground Zero fixation on the June 4th timeline? Did LE decide to not release confirmation of any of the above rumors or claims on who saw Kyron and when they saw him in the school, because by withholding that information from the public it truly helps their investigation?
And one more thing. I know of no parent, or myself, over 23 years of being a parent and dealing our school district, who would not have to sign a child out of school to take him to a doctor’s appointment AFTER that child was physically present in the building, even for five minutes. Thus I do not believe that Kyron ever had a doctor’s appointment, and neither did Kiara, and for some reason, LE has determined that it will not help their investigation to confirm to the public any of this.
Don’t know why they think this, but if they do, fine, it’s their decision. It’s painfully easy to confirm if a doctor appointment existed for either child. Whether that’s been confirmed or determined to be untrue, we just don’t know.
Should we know? Should the public know more to help shoot this case’s progression forward?
Not to move away from the most likely “door opener”, but what about someone “drawn to” the Senior Horman family constellation (stepfa, grandfa) via the internet? On or about the time of this incident senior hormons advertised on line a spate of homespun childrens’ books. IT “experts” at step-fa & grandfa levels aren’t they? Then last Dec was the untoward activity publicity of brother. Would be easy for a perp to research this family system online with pics, once drawn to it. Wonder if either senior got new regular online admirers in last year.
I agree with you mosaic-TH may not have masterminded the plot but with someone like Dede to help her plan it- remember Dede is the planner- the meticulous one -by her own comments on various social networking sites. The person that abducted Kyron may be a pedophile but it was not random-in my opinion also the reason that the profiled suspect has no electronic footprint is because they have expert IT skills- many people do and are not professional IT people- I’ll bet Terri had very good IT skills- we know Kaine does. maybe it is someone from Intel or that lives close to the house or is from the gym.
I always forget something- also from reading- it seems that Terri got around town quite a bit during the day, people knew her and Kitty-it could have been many people. I wish I lived in the Portland area -maybe go sleuthing. My best friend lives there and almost all of my sisters in laws live in Portland metro area but I’ve only been there twice. I’ve posted before that my friends husband is in the gym scene I’m going to quiz her what the buzz is about all of this is.
I am with Mosaic here – TH’s actions would be an incredible coinkadink
if she wasn’t involved or even related (MFH and negative actions with Kyron).
But if the profile has been around for along time, why did the parents do things (I’ll focus on KH as maybe slightly less emotionally bent out of shape – no criticism meant at all!) like enroll Kyron for school again. Are you saying the FBI didn’t tell them the profile. Also they kept saying, including TY, that they thought TH was involved.
So the profile is a very experienced professional – what about RS et al and the theory I posted that they sold him to someone, supplying some of their knowledge.
See this: http://www.oregonlive.com/forest-grove/index.ssf/2010/12/forest_grove_man_admits_to_putting_photos_videos_of_his_underage_girlfriend_on_craigslist.html
FOrest Grove man puts video of his girlfriend (underage) on Craigslist.
How does a 20 yr. old even get this idea? Name is Jesus Hernandez btw. sicko
12.puzzled says:
December 19, 2010 at 11:36 pm
******************************
Which makes even more pieces fall into place for me!
IE, the parallel investigations, On one of Blink’s
podcasts with Dana Pretzer, she mentions the parallel investigations
and what their substance is.
As for RS, two things I hope for,
1* he is deported when all is said and done.
(remember B. said he has an immigration issue?)
2* I have NO facts, but believe IMO that he is tied to the
other parallel investigation, (Drugs) and with all the recent
USM Holds, and arrests for Herroin, I truly hope this has made
our streets here in PDX somewhat safer.
@18. Nancy. This JQPublic member thinks the mobilized physical search well and advisedly conducted. Am only wondering if an equal parallel track ruling out a predator rec’d same resources immediately. I didnt connect the search impetus with Terri’s concerns re possible absence seizures, which to me dont connect with wandering. It’s enough he was 1st grade age, known to be inattentive, curious, on a chaotic school morning where kids went out to play unsupervised. I remember early posts womdering if he went to find a frog. Maybe they found his glasses on the playground, dropped in a snatch but thought to increase his likelihood to wander at the time
For my own clarification …
Is this a generalized profile of a pedophile or is it specific to the KyH case? makes a difference
Would LE monitor known child porn sites to garner all available info on perps and children…or shut it down immediately upon discovery?
In most cases, they monitor it initially while awaiting warrants, which depending on jurisdictions and logistics, can take 60 days or more.
It highly depends on the architecture of the site and the file sharing mechanism.
B
Dee Dee Spicer is not a suspect. How do I know this? Because of who her attorney is. He’s a personal injury guy who’s function was an advisory position. He was the attorney of record and available for the interviews and had the interview turned into an investigation of criminal activity, he would would have advised DD to stop talking and hire a criminal attorney.
Same with RS … he does not have an attorney, that we know of … he’s not a suspect.
Seeing this link to TH’s photo of Ky’s class in Nov 09 strikes me strange and gave me a sinking hinky feeling. If I was at my son’s school trying to take his class’ picture and relized my son wasn’t present (in the bathroom), I would have waited to take the picture until he returned. I wouldn’t have taken it and then posted it without Ky. But that’s how I work and reinforces what I believe TH felt about Ky; Kiara was her priority. IMO, TH was referencing Ky’s ‘wandering off’ back in Nov 09 as part of her ground work plan as reason for his eventual disappearance.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=861618&id=1264414625&fbid=1284531314426#!/photo.php?pid=866720&id=1264414625&fbid=1286441922190
@dee
I have not seen the e-mail that now has labeled TH at cruel to Kyron. DY has been pretty consistent on stating that LE keeps them updated as far as how many leads are coming in and how the investigation is going, however makes it clear that the information that they receive is limited so not to put them in the position to answer questions that they can not answer. This is very different the KHs statements of what he knows from LE.
I will have to go back and listen to the interview again to see if she specifically states that the e-mail she is referring to, was shown to her by LE. DY has also has made it clear that a lot of the info she receives comes from the media and the internet.
Knowing that, it makes me wonder if she may have read something generally and took it as fact. For instance val at the hinky meter posted a letter she found on another forum from a step-mother. It is cruel what this mother said. If DY was to read this, WANTING to connect-the-dots, and find a motive, may convince herself that it is terri and that it is factual. JMO
Here is what Val had to say
Then within that thread I’m going to be discussing a specific post. I want to say upfront that when I read it there was enough that made me fear it COULD be Terri Horman that I did, in fact, submit questions to a contact who I asked if Kaine Horman could answer in order to determine if it could be Terri. Kaine’s answers to those questions led me to believe this is NOT Terri Horman, but I can’t help but point out that somewhere out there is some child in a dangerous situation. And if the person who posted this comment takes issue with my opinion on that….they can go suck eggs.
Link
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/07/29/kyron-horman-case-considering-motives/
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But then knowing that KH changed his mind on whether TH has a drinking problem or not, have changed his mind and now says its TH. I don’t know.
_______________________________________________
Dee says:
December 19, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Has anyone read Terri’s e-mails that stated how much she hated Kyron? Desiree mentioned these in an interview about two months ago but I have never come across the actual e-mails or excerpts of what they said. I would really like to know who the recipient of these e-mails was. Perhaps that person, or a friend of theirs, decided to take Kyron off Terri’s hands.
At our schools, (Portland suburb) we have a designated phone line to call in an absent day. We can also call in an “absent day” ahead of time. If we know our child is going to be at the doctor on a certain day we can notify the office/teacher ahead of time, or call the absent line. Maybe the Miss Porter told the office the day before Kyron had a doctor appt? Kyron’s, name would be on the absent list the next day without a phone call that morning from parent. Office staff would have no reason for a call home to check on Kyron, he was already marked excused.
@jan- might kyron have actually been the one that was half cut off the pic???? you know she could have written the caption much much later
Blink says:
TH may be the mastermind, but until I see evidence of that, and not opinions, or every other possibility can be excluded, imo, we run the risk of missing something critical to the case.
—————————-
Completely agree. Regardless of our personal opinions on whether or not TH is guilty, I believe it is imperative that LE explore all options with an open mind. It would be horrific for an innocent person to be convicted or a guilty one to roam free.
On LE’s radar screen:
#1 TH
#2 her accomplice; the person who abducted Ky
#3 the person(s)the abductor handed Ky over to
The more people involved the more complicated the case becomes. This could explain parallel investigations. Without a body and scanty circumstantial evidence LE may have to put the case on hold until new evidence is developed , i.e. a body is recovered or a suspect(s) give under pressure and “talk”.
Nancy says:
December 20, 2010 at 2:17 am
I may be misreading this, but the comments about the “FBI Profile” and “now reality” seem to be stated as fact, not opinion. I am confused and must have missed new information on Kyron’s case.
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Did some research and answered my own questions. LE/FBI have not stated that Kyron was snatched by a serial pedophile. And the “now reality” is not based upon facts or evidence provided by LE/FBI.
You are correct, and it is my opinion that Kyron was abducted/harmed by a serial pedophile. The FBI has never and likely will never discuss their profile in this case, it is against their policy.
I don’t suppose I could get you to take my word for the fact that part of the profile is very “spot on”?
B
Hope you don’t mond me bringing you over, I thought what you has to say is important. As for “qualifying your statement,” I did not want to misrepresent what you said. What do you think it all means?
11.neighbor says:
December 20, 2010 at 1:13 am
@enumclawrose says “As I read on, neighbor qualifies the statement”
You can skip the middle man. I am here. Nothing to add though.
Correction..what you have to say is important!
45.GraceintheHills says:
December 19, 2010 at 5:31 pm
I think we also have to keep in mind the limitations of criminal personality profiling. The erroneous, if you will, criminal profiles of the BTK killer, the Olympic Park Bomber, the Beltway sniper attacks, as well as others come to mind.
~~~
you are absolutely correct!!! that’s why it’s important to keep an open mind and recognize that when new information surfaces it influence the morphing of the original profile.
Jeff D says:
December 20, 2010 at 11:44 am
Would LE monitor known child porn sites to garner all available info on perps and children…or shut it down immediately upon discovery?
In most cases, they monitor it initially while awaiting warrants, which depending on jurisdictions and logistics, can take 60 days or more.
It highly depends on the architecture of the site and the file sharing mechanism.
B
~~~~
Thank you B. I wonder then if we have any feel for how much the recent nationwide bust re: child porn (I believe a number of perps local to Portland were rounded up…as well the safe recovery of a number of victims)….may have had on the change of direction by LE regarding Kyron case.
I read that post on hinky some time ago and it upset me
I have never been a step parent
I would think some one with IT skills could locate where it was posted
from
so I have waited
Jan, Brett’s profile is currently unavailable.
I think I must have TV Criminal Minds perspective on missing children. When we are told out of the gate that this is isolated, we have to have faith that all avenues have been explored and the evidence supports a statement like that. It cannot just be an assumption, right? We cannot tell LE how to run an investigation, because everything is confidential. We think they are out gathering videos, taking statements from anyone at or near the event, the family is being investigated, searches are conducted, SO’s are tracked down, EVERYTHING is taken into account. Are we wrong to expect that level of work? Did that level of work take place? For the amount of agencies and the money, it is hard to believe it did not. If not the above, what was going on?
jan says:
December 20, 2010 at 2:11 am
@jan, re TK family, Father on the list, mother is not on the list unless she goes by a different last name.
Sorry that’s all the information I got. If any skyline parents know any different, they need to be calling MCSO and letting them know. JMO
There is a note under one of the pictures (for Kyrons baby sisters 1st birthday) that talks about “gaming time”, is that referring to on line gambling?
The fundraiser for Ky at Walgreens in Medford
http://www.localnewscomesfirst.com/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=431&task=videodirectlink&id=6971
Malty says:
December 19, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Question to anyone
would not Houze have had Terri take LDT tests privately when he
took the case
I have no doubt in my mind he did.
B
————
Whoa. No doubt in your mind? Are you using your best guess based on your knowledge and experience, or do you know for a fact that Houze administered a test? This is quite an interesting tidbit… and might change a few things in my thinking.
I admit, I am doubtful of this (or maybe surprised). I do transactional law, not litigation – but in my 20 years working in the legal field, I have never heard of an attorney using a LDT on a client as a way to determine guilt/cooperation/confirmation of anything. Most lawyers I know hate LDTs because they are just not reliable. Is this really soemthing that is done in the criminal realm?
And if it was in fact done in this case, the way presented and answered (i.e., Houze administered one to TH and was satisfied enough with the results to accept her case, if I am reading correctly), what does that show us? Wow. Blink, I think you just dropped a striped cane into our stockings early!
It is my opinion, having a trained polygrapher on staff, who routinely examines potential clients for his boss, that Houze would use this as a regular practice in a case like this.. I am told in the criminal defense arena, this is not uncommon, but I am stating my opinion, I cannot confirm that.
B
Just slightly OT:
>>Man who wrote ‘how-to’ for pedophiles arrested.<<
This was Phillip Greaves that we talked about a while back, and many of us did a lot of emailing, calling, etc. to Amazon to get them to pull this book: ("The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure: a Child-lover's Code of Conduct"). Justice is sweet. Now we need some for Kyron.
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Pedophile-book-author-arrested-112205939.html
***************
I love what Sheriff Judd said: "What's wrong with a society that thinks we've gotten to the point that we can't arrest child predators and child pornographers for writing a manifesto of how to rape a child? Well, we did, because it's against the law," said Judd.
Malty says:
December 19, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Question to anyone
would not Houze have had Terri take LDT tests privately when he
took the case
I have no doubt in my mind he did.
B
*************
Great question Malty! I never thought to ask that!
JMO Kyrons clothes and glasses.
I apologize in advance if this is ground already covered by Blinksters.
If Kyrons clothes and glasses were found on Sauvie Island it would explain so much of LE actions also LE’s and the bio parents belief that KY was alive and being held somewhere.
It would explain why the SI phone pings were so important to LE, and why LE thought that maybe DS was somehow involved. It could also be a reason why LE focused on TH so early on and were reluctant to change their focus. I noticed in the display of KYs clothes that the cargo pants appeared to have been washed and not new from the store. Maybe they had mud on them from being discarded on Sauvie Island.
If KYs clothes were changed on SI after he was taken then it could mean that whoever took him was going to transport him somewhere in public where other people might see him. It would also imply that whoever took KY knew what size clothes to bring to change him into. So the SZ would have to have been watching KY or had seen him in order to guess the size clothes he wore, or maybe TH told him what size to bring. If KYs clothes and glasses were found on SI then I understand why LE keeps searching the Island.
If the above is true the thing that makes me curious is why would LE then display the clothes and glasses on in a presser. Whoever changed KYs clothes already knew where he discarded them, and if KYs clothes were changed then he would not be waring them anyway.