Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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should have said “not on the bus” rather than “missing” at that point
Wishing you all a safe and very Merry Christmas.
Prayers for Kyron.
Let’s just say if all else fails, call the underwriter
Thank you, Blink. Again, you are an apt teacher to those of us who wouldn’t know the route to take.
Thank you, I commend the Mom who did not want to let it go, as she was told.
B
Idahogal says:
December 22, 2010 at 2:56 pm
IF there is even a remote chance that a SO took KyH, then how is it okay for LE to keep this information to themselves? That doesn’t make sense to me at all unless they KNOW WHO IT IS and are looking for this person, or they KNOW IT IS TH and are just building a case.
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Good point Idahogal. I’m a local and can tell you that if it is determined later that LE kept information about an SO to themselves there will be heck to pay.
The overwhelming feeling around here currently is that LE knows who it is and they are meticulously building a case, not only because Houze is involved but because there is enormous pressure to get justice for Kyron.
Whoever took KH would have certainly had to have been close to people in/at the school, parents and the children to have gone unnoticed. To have been able to lure KH outside the building to a truck, the guy would have had to have felt comfortable enough to know his plan could fail and he could explain it away. WTH could that be? I would suppose he also knew the lay of the building and grounds. This is just too frightening.
2.evie says:
December 22, 2010 at 3:14 pm
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Just different driveways,
and it shows only a 1 minute time difference
in pick up and drop off.
Just FYI, the bus number is 145
you have it posted as 146!!!
I don’t think the fact that they no longer list Kyron’s house as a stop is concerning.
Each year the school districts adjust their routes accordingly to the children they will or won’t be picking up. Some families move over the summer and the new occupants may not have children who go to school, or no children at all. It then frees up a stop and possibly makes room for a stop that is new somewhere down the line.
Obviously they knew in advance that Kyron was no longer at his home, and they would not need to schedule routing stop for the year until notified otherwise.
@ Blink,
Do you believe SZ is still in Oregon?
Yes.
B
45.Nancy says:
December 22, 2010 at 2:53 pm
********************************
Does the PPS schedule list the bus arrival at 5 minutes prior, or did PPS state that the bus arrived 5 minutes prior at that particular bus stop on that particular day?
If it is the scheduled time, buses often don’t arrive on time; sometimes early, sometimes late.
*************************************************
True, but how would he know it was going to be early or
late on that particular day?
PPS didn’t state anything, it was Kaine’s statement As I had posted
and the PPS website states the bus schedule times.
@NelMel says:
December 22, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Backtracking…
(snipped) “The company we keep….including the people we email. Sexual predators among us, including our best friends who hear us whine about our unloved stepsons.
Did TH flap her lips to a male aquaintance who is a pedophile?”
—————————————–
To me that’s a definite possibility following along the line of letting “the vampires in” theory. I think TH has an idea who it is especially if she truly was pointing fingers at RS.
I was just thinking about Desiree mentioning Kyron being outside by Kaine’s truck (with possibly a man there), and why he shouldn’t have been outside in the first place.
TH said she left Kyron in the hallway going to his classroom at 9:00 (later changed to 8:45). Therefore it is unlikely he was spotted outside by Kaine’s truck (with another person) after she left – because she and the truck would have been gone by then.
I am assuming he had to have been seen near Kaine’s (or a similar truck) earlier in the morning.
Since Kyron was under TH’s watch earlier in the morning, therefore, he could not have gone outside unless she approved it. Even if she did, though, she claims to have connected with Kyron later in order to leave him in the hallway to his class. This means, according to TH, Kyron could not have been abducted at the time he was seen outside next to Kaine’s (or a look-alike) truck.
This spotting outside by the truck would have no bearing then unless Kyron was actually taken from the school earlier than the time TH claims to have waved goodbye to him in the hallway. She may have stayed at the school until 8:45-9:00 but I wonder when the last time was that anyone actually saw her and Kyron together that morning?
What is the purpose for all the veiled, vague hints here Blink. If you have factual information to report then how about you just spell it out and report it?
Seems a lot more like games are being played, the game of “what outlandish tidbit can I drop today to get more hits on my page”.
There are a lot of things you are claiming as facts here that have NOT been established as facts. I urge people who read here to use common sense, and don’t run off on far-fetched sleuthing benders every time Blink drops one of her “bombshell” hints. Blink has made a point of presenting this forum as a “news” site and herself as an investigative journalist. So hold her to that standard and the next time you read some “hint”, hold her accountable to spell it out and source it.
Ask yourself if it is typical for any investigative journalist or news site that you know of to play “I know something you don’t know. I’ll drop a hint and see if you can figure out what I am hinting at” games.
If Kyron Horman is the true focus for the readers here, how does it benefit him to play these hint and guess games? If someone had factual information coming from LE that could help in Kyron’s case, wouldn’t they just spell it out for you instead of hedging and hinting? If you had a child missing would you like to see people playing “guess what the moderator is hinting at today” games?
Here’s a thought-
Respectfully, the next time you want to call out an investigative journalist, you may wish to “bring it”..
As in, report the facts of the case you disagree with, and supporting resources.
What is misinformed? What is right? What is your hypothesis?
Haters, this case, does not need..
I am fine about being wrong, and if I am, call me out, there is a child we are trying to find. My ego is absent.
Otherwise, your the driveby poster that does not like the direction of conversation.
B
Nora, your comment on the 22nd os right on the money. It’s exactly how I feel. Terry started this ball rolling. There WILL be justice for little Kyron. Poor, sweet Kyron. Praying for him daily. Love always to Kyron.
Idahogal says:
December 22, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Help me out here, folks, because I am beyond concerned. IF there is even a remote chance that a SO took KyH, then how is it okay for LE to keep this information to themselves? That doesn’t make sense to me at all unless they KNOW WHO IT IS and are looking for this person, or they KNOW IT IS TH and are just building a case. Otherwise it isn’t possible to assume that other kids are safe, and the general public needs to be aware of this. I’m freaking scared and I want some answers! WTH is going on with LE on this case? Is this just going to have to happen again before any warning is put out?
***************************************************************************************
@Idahogal.
Sad that some in the Skyline community would actually think having the Wall of Hope present is a bad thing.
Kinda like sticking your head in the sand. (not you personally)
That wall is actually a great teaching opportunity for parents and children.
Now more than ever.
I admire you and other locals here that are able to dig deep, look at all possibilities, leave no stone unturned to find out what happened to Kyron.
I guess it’s only natural to take it personally when it seems like the world is picking on your hometown … but certainly that is not what is meant by anyone here.
This could happen anywhere – unfortunately it does.
When the people of Skyline/Portland stand up with a loud voice and ask the tough questions … they are not only helping to find Kyron, they are also protecting their own children and all children — b/c whoever is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance is still walking free somewhere.
How can a few folks really think they could ever “wish this all away”?? (rhetorical question)
Sheriff Staton has said he feels there is at least one other person involved in Kyrons disappearance.
He also said that a failed MFH took place in this town.
Since no one has been arrested and charged with those crimes (that we know about) – then that evil person/people are still walking around somewhere.
I hope this sounds right. I’m trying to say that the things that have happened in Portalnd can + do happen everywhere.
We all feel for you b/c the spotlight seems to be shining on the city you love.
But that can’t stop people from voicing their concerns and worries … b/c solving Kyrons disappearance means EVERYONES children will be safer.
pdxgirl says: December 22, 2010 at 11:50 am
“Blink obviously wasn’t the only one interested in that blow-by-blow. But, what does/can it tell us? We have no further information about it, so far as i know. What else could the bus driver tell us other than ‘Terri was acting funny’ (indicating she was probably involved) or ‘Terri was horrified and freaked out’ (indicating she was probably taken aback and not involved)?”
If Terri Horman was on the outs with her husband before Kyron disappeared (and according to Mr. Horman, they had not been getting along), a major crisis is only going to make the relationship problems worse.
Add to that an ex-wife that blames you for breaking up her marriage, and now “losing” her child, and what you get is three against one.
The word “losing” is mine, not a quote of anyone else. Given the circumstances, it would seem likely that at the very least, the parents blamed Ms. Horman for not ensuring Kyron was in class and under his teacher’s watch rather than roaming around the science fair unaccompanied.
~~~~~~~
pdxgirl says: December 22, 2010 at 11:50 am
“But, we haven’t heard anything other than ‘bus drivers have been interviewed multiple times,’ have we?”
Nobody disputes that Ms. Horman drove Kyron to school the morning of June 4, 2010.
The school has no record of Kyron showing up to class following the science fair at 10 am.
Given these facts, why would law enforcement expect Kyron’s afternoon bus driver to have any information about the fact that Kyron disappeared from school earlier that morning?
That law enforcement interviewed a bus driver (or bus drivers) “multiple times” suggests law enforcement believes that the bus driver(s) have information that would be helpful to the investigation.
Does anyone know the name of the bus driver, and whether s/he was at the science fair?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jden says: December 22, 2010 at 1:08 pm
“FLGirl – you believe KyH was ‘lured’ out by TH. Yet Blink states emphatically she believes KyH did NOT leave with TH and that SZ (predator) is involved. Unless a witness was inside of the vehicle TH was driving, how can anyone state with certainty that KyH was not with her?”
If Terri Horman was in another location (i.e. Fred Meyers) when Kyron was last seen, then someone else removed Kyron from school. Three different people reported seeing Kyron at the school after Ms. Horman left, and at times that would not have been worked for the verified times that she was at the Fred Meyers stores.
A witness gave a description of a male suspect who was present at the science fair (“suspect zero”). As noted by Blink, there is only a description of the suspect.
This set of facts does not exclude a second person being involved in the abduction. However, it does not rule out that the man last seen with Kyron acted alone.
The question I had was about the attempted child snatching that occurred prior to Kyron’s disappearance. Stranger abductions are pretty rare.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here’s the statement given by Kaine Horman:
“Hi. I’m Kaine, Kyron’s father. I want to thank the community, the parents, the children, bus drivers, and all of those who are being interviewed multiple times now to find Kyron. Thank you. We as the family know how difficult and stressful this is, but your memories of statements can help us find Kyron. We will never be able to thank you enough for that help. Finally, we would like to thank the media. If it was not for you showing Kyron on every newscast, printing his story in the papers, his face would not be known to everyone. People from around the nation have seen his picture. This helps tremendously. Please help us bring Kyron home.”
http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/06/family_of_missing_kyron_horman.html
Mr. Horman uses Kyron’s name five times. He uses the word “thank” or “thanks” and the word “help” four times each. He uses the “find” only used twice.
Mr. Horman use of auditory, kinesthetic, and visual sensory-specific descriptors mirrors neuro-linguistic programming theory and may suggest that law enforcement prepared the statement for him. As such, the words themselves contain far greater importance than the overall theme.
Together with the varied sensory descriptors, the specific repetition of Kyron’s name, and the words “thanks” (or “thank you”) and “help,” indicates that this was no impromptu statement. This is carefully drafted language using law enforcement techniques to humanize the abducted child.
Why are bus drivers named? Was there a concern about a specific bus driver? Or did a bus driver hear something (“memories of statements”), perhaps from a child or teacher? Did law enforcement want to put a specific bus driver on notice that s/he was a suspect?
The claim “your memories of statements can help us find Kyron” suggests that law enforcement may have believed someone heard something.
The wording “known to everyone” is also an interesting choice of words. Is this a message that the perpetrator would be wise to release Kyron, for fear of being discovered and arrested?
On the other hand, the word “help” could be directed at a specific audience. Might law enforcement be seeking a “helpful” person — maybe someone in profession oriented toward “helpful” type people, i.e. teaching, coaching, bus driving — who has relevant information but is being intimidated or threatened into silence? Or is subject zero someone who works in a “helpful” profession who would likely have inner conflict over the abduction?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jden says: December 22, 2010 at 1:08 pm
“DY stated earlier that KyH saw it all and was involved – what did she mean by that? DY also stated that a very credible witness saw a man by (Kaine’s truck) in the parking lot and I think she mentioned KyH being spotted as well, further saying that there was no reason for KyH to be outside the school at that time. What time was that, do we know?”
Desiree Young’s words “Kyron saw it all and was involved.”
Taken with “your memories of statements can help us find Kyron,” the words “Kyron saw it all and was involved” means that Kyron knew his abductor. It also suggests that Kyron saw and was involved in something prior to his disappearance that he might have disclosed to others.
If Kyron was being sexually molested by his abductor prior to his disappearance, then his words and behavior may have given clues as to this. Under that scenario, Kyron’s “spacing out” or acting withdrawn becomes a symptom of having been molested.
As a teacher by training, Terri Horman would have specific training to recognize the signs of sexual abuse. For that reason, it would seem strange for her to point out that Kyron was exhibiting signs of sexual abuse if she was the person behind that abuse.
I have gone from thinking that TH did this…to thinking someone else did this with her help…to thinking someone else did this and she was blindsided…to thinking she probably did do this…to thinking I just don’t know nothin’ bout’ nothin’ no mo’!!!
Thanks to everyone here for all the hard work, ideas, thoughts, opinions, and dogged determination on behalf of a beautiful boy that we have never met. I sincerely wish all of you a wonderful Holiday.
Blessed be.
TH already laid out that KY went to the bathroom without notifying anyone. She noted it in her 11-09 class picture. The teacher thought he was in the bathroom on 6/4. Did TH get frustrated with Ky for his bathroom breaks while they shopped and he knew her impatience with his requests. Did TH, before leaving the school, tell Ky to go to bathroom before continuing on with the SF? Was the vampire waiting in the bathroom waiting for Ky to follow THs orders since this was part of the arrangement for his abduction?
cd says:
December 22, 2010 at 2:18 am
Following is an interesting answer about the DR.’s appointment
Was Kyron supposed to be out of school the following Friday for a doctor’s appt.?
“There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain.”
——————————————————————————
I would have thought he would have called to doctor and found out all about the appointment by July.
Story Published: Jul 6, 2010 at 5:15 PM PST
http://www.katu.com/news/local/97904344.html
*****************************
So since Kaine said:
“There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain.”
He does NOT say there was never a scheduled appt, he says “it was unknown exactly WHEN the appt was scheduled”
Does that mean the family KNEW that a doctor apt. was coming up for Kyron, but just didn’t know the details (exact date, time etc.). The words “some discussion about the appointment”–did that pertain to the family possibly talking about Kyron’s need to see a doctor, and was that discussion between Kaine, Terri and Desiree-or what? Did Kaine and Desiree know that Kyron had been possibly exhibiting behavior that would warrant a trip to the doctor?
Or is he saying there was some discussion between the family and LE about the alleged appt?
I am really curious about what he said concerning the doctor appt. The way he said it makes me feel that he and DY knew it was coming up, but didn’t know when, etc. So if they knew about the upcoming appt. for Kyron, did they also know what it was about (Kyron’s supposed mini seizures)?
It would help us to know if Kyron was truly suffering from some undiagnosed problem (or a problem that had been “helped along” in some way, that made it easier for him to be abducted (by whomever).
Portland Police searching for a sex offender.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Portland-police-renew-hunt-sex-offender-112345889.html
Scarey dude, but unrelated to this case. He needs to be located..
B
Hit the submit button too soon.
Veromi people directory has Winklebleck listed as living in the area
of some other familiar peeps in this case.
Winklebleck, Paul Evans
43 Lake Oswego, OR
Milwaukie, OR
Oregon City, OR
Portland, OR
West Linn, OR
Available Get Details…
Winklebleck, Paul
Milwaukie, OR
Portland, OR
Available Get Details…
Winklebleck, Paul E
Portland, OR
Available Get Details…
Winklebleck, Paul E
Portland, OR
Available Get Details…
Winklebleck, Paul E
Gladstone, OR
@nora
“Bravo!” is right!
@FLGirl
You are NOT the only one. I couldn’t agree more. Thank you for saying what I’ve been seeing and thinking all along. This case isn’t as complicated as we’ve heard. The investigation MAY be because they have not recovered Kyron but what probably happened isn’t complicated.
I’m with you. I still believe TH planned (not well enough) and did this mostly by herself and with the help of one other person. The most likely scenario, imho, is that TH and Dodo did it together. The unaccounted for time is the biggest and most obvious lead.
TH either did this or she is the unluckiest person in history.
I DO have an alternate motive for them using the truck as opposed to the car: it’s simply bigger. It wasn’t anything deep about “blending in.” The truck could comfortably accommodate TH, Dodo, Kyron and the mystery container LE is looking for. The lie/excuse was the SF project.
Thank you for your well-written theory/post. I believe it will prove to be very close.
if a pedophile- and a serial one at that abducted Kyron after Terri left, I still want to know why the school apparently did nothing to find him or at least call home to verify the absence. When my son stayed home with my mother (He was sick with a cold and I told him he was well enough to go to school) when he was 8, the school called me at work to tell me he didn’t get on the bus. My mom didn’t know that you had to call the school. If Kyron disappeared why was it not followed up? What don’t we know about this that LE isn’t saying? Ther is something about this they are not talking about
This is to me the most important fact in knowing how/why kyron disappeared. Does anyone here know the reason?
Why did the school/office/teacher not seem to care that Kyron was not there?
Blink,
I know you give no cred to CL, so feel free to edit as you wish.
Do you know if SF was advertised via email list merge blast to community &/or PPS, as poster claims?
Today’s CL text here instead of link, since post disappears after a week:
portland craigslist > multnomah co > community
Serial Killer At Skyline School/ PPS? (Portland, Oregon)
Date: 2010-12-22, 12:52AM PST
Reply to: comm-tkhx7-2125040603@craigslist.org
The world is round and in the news lately with serial killer school teachers like this one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/6975001/Teacher-believed-to-be-Belgiums-latest-serial-killer.html and one in India. Is there a serial killer at Skyline school or was there one there the day that Kryon Horman dissappeared?
The stepmother story seems to lack a lot of evidence of any kind and original reports are conflicting first saying others saw kyron after the step mother left the school and then later after her drug running gang drug runner associate tryed to pin a hit of her husband on her the police started putting the pressure on making her automatically the last person to see kryon before he dissapeared.
Suspects should include various people working at the school who happened to be on probabation by the school district including a speech therapist and the science teacher and the guy who likes little boys who wear glasses too much who put together the skyline website featuring young boys all wearing glasses and few girls wearing glasses.
Something more maybe or maybe not over looked by police is that the science fair was announced in advance maybe by email to names on a mail merge internet list? I would like to see that list and who is on it in the PPS system . Why was the science fair open over an hour before school classes officially opened that day? Is’nt there time for 7 year olds to do science fair presentations / set up durring the regular day. The curriculum for 7 year olds is not so incredibly rigorous. The whole affair is fishy that the school was opened early for something like a baby science fair. there is more to the story than being reported.
following the kyron updates from the beginning there is no report of how the school sent out notice that the science fair was going to be a school event. Where is the notice ? what times does the notice give such as for set up and for display and for show and tell? was a mail merge email sent out giving notice to the community and internally in pps too? who is on the email/ mailing list? something big is missing from the story.
There are the i-5 drug pipe line gangs , the mexican gardner gangs and the school that seems to be lying about what they know about kryon because the time line is weird considering that kryon knew to come to school so early before the school officialy opened.
I think the mail lists should be released and espeically the internal pps email mail merge addresses…are there people who go to science fairs when ever one opens at a school in the district?
“There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain…
*****
Or it could be claimed that an appointment was made but never divulged as to who the doctor was that the appointment was made with and when conversations were shut down that information became a unknown due to TH’s silence.
puzzled says:
December 22, 2010 at 2:52 pm
“I’m not so sure if there was a serial pedophile loose in the neighborhood. fwiw”
~~~~~~~~~~
Now I am curious. Would you care to elaborate? (please).
Sorry my response December 22, 2010 at 7:45 pm
was to:
6.zeus says:
December 22, 2010 at 6:08 pm
So since Kaine said:
“There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain.”
“There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain
My sincere thanks to everyone for keeping this discussion going. I haven’t posted for some time because I just don’t have any new ideas. I wholeheartedly agree with comments above that this is just what it appears to be. I’ve learned from many experiences in my life that second guessing one’s self is almost always a mistake, and I’m afraid thats what we’ve slipped into is just endless second guessing, with the best of intentions for sure. I hope LE has something but I don’t have a lot of faith in that. Its gonna have to fall in their lap. I live literally walking distance from where Coulton Harris Moore crashed the plane that he stole and flew back here to WA state. We heard all the sirens and later learned that he had slipped through their fingers. Maybe TH will move to the Bahamas…….
I think about Kyron every day and check in here to see if there’s anything new. I saw the video of the girl wrapping presents and donating the money for Kyron, bless her heart. Thank you all for caring. TH must have slipped up somewhere, somebody knows, I still have faith that will be known somehow.
I know Blink has said she doesn’t believe Kyron was molested prior to his abduction…but–what if Kyron was, and his spaciness was a result of being troubled about SZ abuse? And what if SZ found out about this doctor’s appointment, feared getting caught, thus prompting the abduction of and harm to little Kyron?
I have come a long way from my initial belief that TH is behind all of this. I’m really not so sure anymore.
I doubt there are any public documents that would allow us to find out who was Kyron’s bus driver, but that would certainly be interesting information (especially in light of the Oregon City school bus driver bust).
I believe “First Student” is one of the major school bus contractors around here. I see them all around town, especially on the west side, where Skyline Elementary is located.
7.Kimberly says:
December 22, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Hit the submit button too soon.
Veromi people directory has Winklebleck listed as living in the area
of some other familiar peeps in this case.
Winklebleck, Paul Evans
43 Lake Oswego, OR
Milwaukie, OR
Oregon City, OR
Portland, OR
West Linn, OR
Available Get Details…
Winklebleck, Paul
***
Kimberly,
What did I miss? Where did he come up?
48.MockingbirdSings says:
December 22, 2010 at 3:10 pm
At that time, there was a study done (and I cannot remember where it came from) that showed that children can be told to yell and scream, but many will not – the lessons of respect for adults, don’t be too loud, etc., are very, very strong and children do not recognize the degree of danger. Just telling them is often not enough. They must practice. There were news reports of elementary classrooms going to the gym with a “stranger” to practice yelling and screaming. I don’t know who promoted this as an training exercise for kids, but I remember seeing it done.
Kids would line up on one side of the gym. The “stranger” (a man) would attempt to grab the first child in line who would be encouraged to yell, scream, kick if necessary to pull away, then run to the teacher(s) on the opposite side of the gym and say “Someone tried to grab me!” Everyone would cheer for the one who got away and the next turn would come up. Some kids could do it, but many had trouble and the last child was no more likely to find it easy to yell and scream than the first – they all had to practice.
My children were not in a class that did that, so I had them practice at home. It was hard because their father was strict about how “young ladies” should act in public and they couldn’t understand anyone would want to hurt them. But we did it.
Does anyone remember this program? It was so simple, and didn’t cost anything at all. Does anyone still do it?
—————————–
Welcome back Mockingbird. Missed you on Sunday. I think the program you are menitoning is Listen to Kids.org. It is a Portland based program that teaches children personal safety. I am going to contact them to see about doing a presentation – or even what it would cost for our school. I know many nonprofits in particular DV/SA are hurting since lots of federal/state funds have been cut over the past few years.
http://listentokids.org/about.html
I hope it is okay to post the link of this important nonprofit.
Portland police renew hunt for sex offender [PHOTOS @ Link]
“Paul Evans Winklebleck, 42, has warrants out for kidnapping, criminal impersonation, assault, attempted rape and robbery, child sex abuse and failing to register as a child sex offender.”
“Winklebleck is about 5 foot 11 with a stocky build. He has short, thick, reddish brown hair and a thick goatee and mustache. He was last seen wearing a camouflage top matching hat. He also has a tattoo on his upper back “Combative for God.”
Portland police were offering a reward through Crime Stoppers of up to $1,000 for information that leads to an arrest. Call Crime Stoppers at (503) 823-HELP (4357), leave a tip online at http://www.crimestoppersoforegon.com, or text 823HELP plus your tip and send it to CRIMES (274697).
http://www.kgw.com/news/Portland-police-renew-hunt-sex-offender-112345889.html
Th’s silence makes me want to scream. What does she know? Is her silence more important than an innocent 7 year old that never had a chance to show the world what he could contribute. I can not get past this. I can understand that she did not directly take Kyron from Skyline, but I can not get past her silence or her actions.
Info @ America’s Most Wanted :
Airing Dates 12/18/2010 & 09/25/1010 & 06/19/2010 & 06/12/2010
Paul Evans Winklebleck
Aliases: Paul Evans Sullivan, Paul Rose
Sex: Male
Race: White
Current Age: 43
Height: 5’8″
Weight: 200 lbs.
Hair (Color, Description, Facial Hair): Red
Reddish-brown hair but mostly bald
Bushy goatee
Eyes:Brown
Scars and Tattoos: Both arms tattooed with dragon, bulldog and heart
Neck tattooed with “Combative for God”
Last Seen: Aumsville , OR
Other Possible Locations: National
Click on **More to read FULL REPORT/ INFO & Click on The Full Story**to read about his last known attempt on two young woman leaving/ abducted @ Roseland Theatre in Portland 03/05/2010.
The photo of him in car/ looking back was taken by one of the alleged victims AFTER he got them in the car.
“Cops learned Winklebleck was already wanted on a felony warrant for child sex abuse and failure to register as child sex offender. He was recently released from prison after serving seven years for forcible sodomy on a girl under the age of 14.”
“After AMW first aired the story on Paul Winklebleck, a state trooper in Montana called the Hotline and told an operator Winklebleck’s pickup truck — not used during the crime — could be located at a tow yard near the Montana/Wyoming border.”
“The tipster told AMW the truck was originally abandoned by the side of a highway a day before the attack in Oregon.”
“The truck had been at the tow yard since March 8, 2010. In June, Portland detectives drove to Montana to investigate the tip and confiscate any evidence inside the vehicle for analysis.”
“Unfortunately, evidence collected from the truck did not get detectives any closer to catching Winklebleck, so they’re still looking for tips. Detectives believe Winklebleck could still be anywhere in the United States”
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=71863
The LINK BELOW has 5 articles written about Winklebleck :
**Note HIS cell phone was found/located in Clarkston, Washington 03/11/2010 & reported 03/12/2010
“The U.S. Marshals Service said the driver received a call from someone on the phone who said that it belonged to Winklebleck and that Winklebleck was wanted.”
“The Portland Police Bureau said that despite the development, Winklebleck’s whereabouts are still unknown, and he is still wanted at this time.”
” The Marshals said they believe Winklebleck is no longer in the area.”
http://outside.in/portland-or/tags/Paul%20Evans%20Winklebleck
@iodizedseasalt says:
December 22, 2010 at 7:11 pm
This is to me the most important fact in knowing how/why kyron disappeared. Does anyone here know the reason?
—————————————–
(snipped) “Taken with “your memories of statements can help us find Kyron,” the words “Kyron saw it all and was involved” means that Kyron knew his abductor. It also suggests that Kyron saw and was involved in something prior to his disappearance that he might have disclosed to others.”
———————————-
If the suggestion turns out to be true that Ky saw it all and was involved and he did disclose or threaten to disclose to others, he, in essence was “silenced”. I would not be surprised to see some very familiar names on LE’s list of suspects if and when the case wraps up.
A smash-up of clips on perp/perv~
WANTED: Paul Winklebleck!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AR4d2LIxfs
Man, what I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall when Houze’s PI gives his/her reports to his boss. I would think that if he/she found any evidence of a serial pedophile or of hinky behavior from anyone, including TH (like hiding behind the stairs) that the evidence would be turned over to LE ASAP…would I be correct in thinking that? I really have no clue.
As for the doctor’s appointment, I’ve said this before…I think one of the first things that LE did was confirm that doctor’s appointment. They didn’t need TH for that; one call from KH (the dad) to the office would be all it would take if there were HIPAA issues. If all else failed a subpoena wouldn’t not have been hard to get.
I think that if Kyron didn’t have an appointment for the following week that LE would have leaked that information to the public to put more pressure on TH. There would be nothing for LE to gain by going public with that information if they found out that Kyron’s appointment really was when TH said it was.
**********************************************************************
My state, Kentucky, has one of the highest child abuse death rates in the country, if not THE highest, we’ve had two children die at the hands of abusers in my city just in the last week… like the skyline community, I don’t want to be judged, or have my community judged in a negative way due to the actions of these monsters. I can’t pretend it doesn’t happen though, and I can’t NOT look at my neighbor’s children and pretend to myself that everything is “really” ok anymore.
For those of you in the community that think are living this nightmare, please know that you are in my prayers. If I say something that offends you I am truly sorry and that is not my intention. I’d say it’s pretty safe to say that’s how we all feel, but I would never take it upon myself to speak for anyone here other than myself.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends, classmates and community.
@Essay Kaye
As Lea Conners said: Stranger abductions are pretty rare.
What’s the probability … not possibility or likelihood … but probability of a guy, unrecognized and unidentified, driving a white truck, attending a once a year event at a rural elementary school, parking at a not so accessible entryway, secluded out of sight of 200+ adults coming and going, luring a child, ( from a family with multiple hinky co-winky-dinks ), within moments of his stepmother leaving him in the hallway, ( without being seen or heard ), removing the child from the school, ( without being seen or heard ), securing him in the white truck and driving out of the schoolyard merging with the rest of traffic, turning left or right (who knows) and going over the horizon … without anyone noticing?
@31. e-rose. The 2 at-home dads are kessinger & vonk. May be more; haven’t looked at family situation of all males yet.
Simplest explanation is 2 girls were students like Kyron & man was a chaperone, or supportive dad. Cant recall vonk’s kid’s sex, for example, may be female.
A classmate may have tagged on with any dad there with his daughter.
If an SZ was present, he didnt voluntarily put himself on The List.
SZ could be someone on PPS leave who popped in briefly and didnt look out of place.
About the bus drivers being interviewed several times. Several reasons possible why that was necessary and routine and I see no reason to look to bus driver interviews as being a sign of something highly suspicious. It would be routine to me to interview all of them immediately regarding June 4. They talk among each other. They witness and memorize routines. Many drive both a.m. and p.m. routes and would see all activity both shifts among students and parents and staff entering and leaving the school. They have to stick to a strict schedule, so if that schedule was breached by anything odd, they’d remember that. They can i.d. the parents who are lousy drivers, the ones who stand and chat with staff in the morning, the teachers or other staff who race into the building versus the ones who wave and chat with people, the people who micromanage their child at the bus stop both a.m. and p.m. so the bullies don’t get to him. So speaking with them multiple times strikes me as both routine and as very necessary to get a feel for what was going on that morning at Skyline. I would think they’d be a huge pool of reliable information for LE regarding June 4.
Well, if he “saw it all” in a school parking lot, around here that would be a drug dealor in business
I have a nitpick about the Kaine transcript from the first PC.
The link to the video is here. http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Kyron-Horman-family-speaks-publicly-for-1st-time-96171744.html
I just read this transcript while listening to the audio and I think it is accurate. Note that the phrase Kaine uses is
>>>>”your memories and statements can help find Kyron”<<<<
I also don't interpret it as 'bus drivers were interviewed multiple times' specifically.. he mentions that all of those people (community, parents etc AND ALL…) have been interviewed multiple times.
At -53 in the video clip:
Hi. I'm Kaine. I'm Kyron's father.
We want to thank the community, the parents, the children, the bus drivers, and all of those who are being interviewed multiple times to help find Kyron. Thank you. We as the family know how difficult and stressful this is, but your memories and statements can help find Kyron. We will never be able to thank you enough for that help.
Finally, we would like to thank the media. If it was not for you showing Kyron on every newscast, printing his story in the papers, his face would not be known to everyone. People from around the nation have seen his picture. This helps tremendously. Please help us bring Kyron home.
—
This is totally unrelated to Kyron, but I thought I would share this tragic story from my hometown. I can’t even imagine what this poor mother is going through. She needs all the thoughts and prayers she can get to help her through this.
http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/Three_Children_Killed_in_Fire_112152729.html
@19. Pdxgirl. You are saying PPS Distr CONTRACTS OUT school transportation, and bus drivers are not county PPS employees? If so, IMO BOE has gone too far in cost cutting. In my county, 12 yrs ago perhaps, I was a founding member of a parents’ coalition(now a dog, taken over by splinter group) that worked to bring change to BOE at the polls where it counted, and did, successfully.
If bus drivers and janitors are contracted out, may I humbly suggest a parents’ coalition to focus on and eval BOE & CountyExec Council might be considered. Why would Kyron and cohorts be entrusted to nonCounty trained & evaluated drivers? with County employees, there are still enough troubles here on buses.
Blink,
Back to Carpet Connection:
Who was the TH carpet cleaner in July 2009?
Who did her roof and gutters?
We know the Landscaper for flower beds, eh?
On Terri’s FB, she posted:
“Terri Moulton Horman Carpets cleaned. Check. Roof and gutters done. Check. Flower beds and blackberries killed. Check. 2 trips to the dump for said blackberries. Check. Kaine needs to get his ass home. I’m tired.
Terri Moulton Horman Went for a 2.16 mile run pushing a stroller….whew! Harder than I thought.
July 15, 2009 at 12:00pm
See additional clues: http://caseview.us/topic/3505258/1/
26.Kimberly says:
December 22, 2010 at 1:45 pm
24.Midwest Mom says:
December 22, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Blink,
On the MCSO website, they have Tonys statement in the press conference, NOT Kaine’s, the site states that it is not available. So either the transcriber did not get around to typing it or it was not a authorized statement by the sheriffs office. My opinion it is the second, it was not authorized.
A written statement made by Kryon’s father is not available for this release
**************************************
So he went against what was recommended!
why?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Kimberly: Not sure what you mean when you say “he went against what was recommended.” A family’s/victim’s statement does have to be “authorized” by LE, but I would think the author of a statement would need to give permission to have his/her words posted on the MCSO’s website. KH may have requested they not post his words, or the family may simply have preferred to post TY’s words.
Idahogal says:
December 22, 2010 at 5:34 pm
I have gone from thinking that TH did this…to thinking someone else did this with her help…to thinking someone else did this and she was blindsided…to thinking she probably did do this…to thinking I just don’t know nothin’ bout’ nothin’ no mo’!!!
Thanks to everyone here for all the hard work, ideas, thoughts, opinions, and dogged determination on behalf of a beautiful boy that we have never met. I sincerely wish all of you a wonderful Holiday.
Blessed be.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have been on the same carousel. And I share in your good wishes.
editorial: My instincts just won’t let me believe a person can invest so much time and energy raising a child only to be done with him.
~~~~~~~
question: Doesn’t at least one time line allow for Kyron to have actually left the school between 9 and 10? And wouldn’t that allow for fewer eyes on the departure as things were settling down from the SF.
~~~~~~~~
comment: To the locals….I have learned so much about your area and the people, traced so many aerial photos hither and yon and even researched some Oregon history..had a dream I bought land there….(jeesh I’m ate up)….it seems like a great place to live and raise a family. Reckon we all have snakes in our gardens and I would welcome all help to chase them from mine,,:)…….just fwiw…
6.Kimberly says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 22, 2010 at 3:57 pm
***********************
Blink, it still says have 3 In moderation
all around the same time.
Your up
B
@34.Rose says:
December 22, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Well, if he “saw it all” in a school parking lot, around here that would be a drug dealor in business
I agree…it’s been my opinion from the get-go that drugs play a key role. Money. Part of the US-Mex connect. Excitement. Importance. Underbelly.