Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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Not to be so bold as to speak for Blink … but people the “Question” is-
Was it NORMAL EVERYDAY for EVERYONE in the home to walk down & meet Kyron’s school bus ?
ie. KH,TMH & kH (& JT/E/M when he lived there) walk down to meet bus/Kyron.
-OR-
Did individuals & WHICH individuals (everyday) ?
-OR-
Did Kyron walk by HIMSELF up the driveway after getting off the bus ?
What was the “norm” for school bus/Kyron EVERYDAY ?
JMHO … to infinity & beyond FOR Kyron & FOR Desiree.
________________________
wc says:
December 21, 2010 at 6:15 pm
1. I would like the blow by blow of TH meeting the bus, and Kaine and Kiara bringing up the rear while TH is standing there talking to the bus driver..
B
——
“Was Kaine waiting at the bus stop for Kyron to get off of the school bus?
“Yes I was. I walked Kiara down to the bus stop about 3:35 with Terri following close after we left. We all arrived down at the bus stop together and waited as the bus came to the stop.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/horman_family_answers_question.html
——
I’d make a comment if I could think of one.
lol, was that typical?
As he was home frequently, who met the bus?
B
amychika:
Would you please refresh my memory w/ date & time of the below comment you posted I made ?
I do not remember the context “that” post was made.
TIA
__________
amychika says:
December 22, 2010 at 5:14 am
to riverpeal who said: “Hmmm….wondering if SZ has visited BoC, and somehow left no trace? I’m NOT suggesting, by the way, that any commenter here is SZ (gotta be careful what you say here!)….”
i must add, Let alone set up meetings with people that you have met here or any other web site!!!
@Scooby – I did read that article this afternoon. I will keep this family in my prayers and thoughts.
I would like to clarify a few things based on my experience and memory and with the understanding there can be variations, of course.
jan says:
“Suspects should include various people working at the school who happened to be on probabation by the school district including a speech therapist and the science teacher and the guy who likes little boys who wear glasses too much who put together the skyline website featuring young boys all wearing glasses and few girls wearing glasses.
Something more maybe or maybe not over looked by police is that the science fair was announced in advance maybe by email to names on a mail merge internet list? I would like to see that list and who is on it in the PPS system . Why was the science fair open over an hour before school classes officially opened that day? Is’nt there time for 7 year olds to do science fair presentations / set up durring the regular day. The curriculum for 7 year olds is not so incredibly rigorous. The whole affair is fishy that the school was opened early for something like a baby science fair. there is more to the story than being reported.”
———————————-
(1) So there is no confusion, every teacher new to PPS is on probation for 3 years which means they have to have evaluations done by an administrator each year and the Board must vote to renew their contract again. After the 3rd year (as with Ms. Porter), the Board votes whether to place them on tenure. The scheduling of evaluations changes as well as the process for termination, but not much else.
(2) Re the science fair – Skyline (K-8) is a candidate to become an IB World School which normally takes 2 or 3 years and is very challenging.
http://www.ibo.org/pyp/
To become an IB World School:
The authorization process is the same for all schools and has been designed to support schools in:
• making the decision to become an IB World School
• understanding the nature and requirements of the IB programme
• defining their readiness to implement the programme
• planning to sustain the programme in the long term.
Other notes from the program:
The five essential elements—concepts, knowledge, skills, attitudes, action—are incorporated into this framework, so that students are given the opportunity to:
• gain knowledge that is relevant and of global significance
• develop an understanding of concepts, which allows them to make connections throughout their learning
• acquire transdisciplinary and disciplinary skills
• develop attitudes that will lead to international-mindedness
• take action as a consequence of their learning.
The curriculum is expressed in three interrelated ways:
• the written curriculum—what do we want to learn?
• the taught curriculum—how best will we learn?
• the assessed curriculum—how will we know what we have learned?
My note: I do not feel it is fair to call it a “baby science fair”.
A science fair would be considered a way to exhibit what students have learned. Gardening and recycling and monitoring the economic results also are excellent ways to show the global significance of what you are learning.
I won’t go into all the reasons for wanting to be an IB school, but these schools do attract students and have many benefits. A PPS district IB administrator was at the SF (name on list).
Many other schools do have exhibits, although not always science related. Schools also have carnivals, festivals, field days, tournaments, Renaissance Fairs, Veterans’ Day Celebrations, plays and music performances, and many other kinds of public events. Anyone who was interested in visiting a school for any reason would not have to rely on a particular email list to find out what events are coming up.
“The learner profile describes a list of attributes that promote academic rigour and the establishing of a personal value system leading to international-mindedness. It is expected that PYP teachers will assess and report on individual student development regarding each of these attributes.”
Learner Profile:
inquirers—their natural curiosity has been nurtured and they actively enjoy learning
thinkers—they exercise initiative in applying thinking skills critically and creatively to solving complex problems
communicators—they receive and express ideas and information confidently in more than one language
risk-takers—they approach unfamiliar situations without anxiety and have the confidence to explore new ideas
knowledgeable—they have explored themes that have global significance and have acquired a critical mass of knowledge
principled—they have a sound grasp of the principles of moral reasoning and have acquired integrity, honesty and a sense of justice
caring—they show sensitivity towards the needs and feelings of others, and have a sense of personal commitment to helping others
open-minded—they respect the values of other individuals and cultures and seek to consider a range of points of view
well-balanced—they understand the importance of physical and mental balance and personal well-being
reflective—they give thoughtful consideration to their own learning by constructively analysing their personal strengths and weaknesses.
(I couldn’t help but wish TH had fit THIS profile.)
@ Lea Conner says:
December 22, 2010 at 5:26 pm
That law enforcement interviewed a bus driver (or bus drivers) “multiple times” suggests law enforcement believes that the bus driver(s) have information that would be helpful to the investigation.
*******
SCHOOL BUS DRIVERS
Bus driver news was coincidentally on TH radar end of May.
See comment she made on wierd School bus driver news incident on her FB (and another blog)
http://caseview.us/topic/3505258/1/
Terri Moulton Horman:
“I would have kept my mouth shut!
School bus takes wrong students on field trip – Weird news- msnbc.com
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/…ews-weird_news/?gt1=43001
May 20 at 2:33pm via MSNBC · Comment · Like”
Perp School bus drivers not uncommon.
http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-atlanta/ex-school-bus-driver-sentenced-for-collecting-distributing-child-pornography
**************
SF MYSTERY MAN
@ Rose says:
December 22, 2010 at 8:57 pm
@31. e-rose. 2 at-home dads are kessinger & vonk. May be more; haven’t looked at family situation of all males yet.
…a chaperone, or supportive dad…
SZ could be someone on PPS leave who popped in briefly and didn’t look out of place.
************
Yes, Rose!
…And knows schools!
PPS EMPLOYEES:
There are two (suspicious?) PPS teacher ID’s below with no names. One has to expect that MSCO has easy access to PPS files and is all over them. As well as bus driver backgrounds.
Note: teacher’s names (that are not renewed) not listed, nor reason:
But we all know there is a good reason:
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/files/board/030209_minutes_final_9_.pdf
“Based on the recommendation of the Superintendent of Portland Public Schools, the teachers listed below will not be re-employed. The Board of Education hereby instructs the Human Resources Department to notify these teachers that their employment is not renewed for the 2009-10 school year.
Employee ID No.
017876
013560”
Could one of these guys (or other PPS Employees) have been let go for something inappropriate-child- related, know schools, have an ax to grind?
SUBSTITUTE TEACHER:
Could some ex-teacher have dropped in claiming to be “a substitute,” however briefly and mentioned by an innocent student.
@ Rose
Have locals satisfied in their minds—said to have been ID’d as a parent. Is Mystery Man on the list?
Who is the Mystery Man in corner of SF photo?
Lea Conner says:
December 22, 2010 at 5:26 pm
“If Kyron was being sexually molested by his abductor prior to his disappearance, then his words and behavior may have given clues as to this. Under that scenario, Kyron’s “spacing out” or acting withdrawn becomes a symptom of having been molested.
As a teacher by training, Terri Horman would have specific training to recognize the signs of sexual abuse. For that reason, it would seem strange for her to point out that Kyron was exhibiting signs of sexual abuse if she was the person behind that abuse.”
—————————
Teachers do not get what they need to recognize the signs of sexual abuse unless they pursue learning more on their own. For years all that was done was to show a video and hand out a booklet about what to watch for and when/where to report. If this changed, it was after her original license.
I do not think Terri was a well prepared teacher when it comes to understanding children. She also did not seem to understand what it requires to get a job beyond substituting – as I posted about before.
I personally don’t believe she would have connected her spacing out/wandering story with sex abuse symptoms even if she knew that was happening. She certainly didn’t pick up on the bathroom issue and seems to have made it another of her burdens to bear (sigh). For some reason, I really don’t think she expected him to be around long enough to have any of these symptoms verified or diagnosed – MOO.
From TH FB page:
Terri Moulton Horman “Anyone else annoyed that we are required to fill out a census? I like to buck the system which is why when I make a phone call or text on my cell I go out and sit in my car.”
Wonder if that was the only reason? And why would calling and texting from the car be bucking the system?
I just still want to know why the school was not concerned about Kyron missing all day and not being in the program in the afternoon? Did the school call Terri or Kaine? Can you see what I’m getting at? His jacket and backpack were supposed to be left there yet no one in the school seemed to care that Kyron was gone? WHY? Were his jacket and backpack still there at the ened of the day? Can someeone enlighten me on this Thanks
There is no serial killer- how would you know if one was a serial pedophile if you didn’t know if there is more than one victim? That’s what “serial” means…If LE thought that, they would be obligated to let the parent know for the safety of their children.
I meant pedophile not killer
Cbickel says:
December 22, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Just wanted to say I’m thinking about you.
I grew up and started teaching in Kentucky decades ago – I do not believe the abuse issues are new and they certainly are not “popular” to bring up or deal with. I didn’t know what to do as a beginning teacher. When a dad told me he would beat a student with a belt if she got bad grades and to keep him informed, I gave her C’s. She knew why I did, and she tried her best to keep up.
So many things I wish I could go back and do again knowing what I know now.
@NelMel says:
December 22, 2010 at 8:59 pm
So right about the bus drivers, they know everything, including the family cars. And gossip, yep they know pretty much everything going on in the neighborhood, in the school, and on the bus. Years ago my oldest came home from first grade, I asked her “what did you learn today?” With a big smile, “Mom, everything I learn, I learn on the bus.” Truer words were never spoken on so many different levels.
@mac
I thought this was a learning site not a news site and
everyday I learn something here from someone
BOC is just fine
the posters are great thinkers and teachers
Blink is a great leader and teacher
I thought we worked as a team here
I can’t tell from the Lea Conner post above if it was Lea, Jden, or FLGirl who said this: “A witness gave a description of a male suspect who was present at the science fair (“suspect zero”). As noted by Blink, there is only a description of the suspect.” but Blink has not used the word “witness” and if she did, I missed it. She did say that it’s been proven to her satisfaction that Kyron left with SZ and I raised the “witness” question some time ago, but a number of my fellow posters didn’t think that a witness could exist who’s remained silent this long.
So @ Lea, Jden, or FLGirl: is “witness” confirmed? Do we have a witness who’s remained anonymous and quiet?
@Rose–I should clarify about contracting out bus services to First Student.
I don’t know for sure what schools in Portland use First Student to bus their students. It may be just the private schools, for all I know. But, I see them ALL over the west side on school mornings, full of kids on their way to school.
Could be PPS, could be the private schools, could be both–I don’t really know. Just want to be clear about that.
Lea Conner says:
December 22, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Given the circumstances, it would seem likely that at the very least, the parents blamed Ms. Horman for not ensuring Kyron was in class and under his teacher’s watch rather than roaming around the science fair unaccompanied.
————————
I agree.
It would be quite natural for Kaine and Desiree to blame TH for not ensuring Kyron’s safety that morning; most people would likely do the same at least to some degree if that had been their child.
It would also be quite natural for any of us in TH’s position to feel responsible and overwhelming guilt for not ensuring Kyron’s safety that morning.
Even though in this case TH has seemingly not expressed responsibility/guilt, it would still not be a natural progression for parents to go from blaming someone for allowing their child to be taken to blaming the disappearance directly on that person and ruling out a random abduction by a pedophile or other person(s). After all, parents of child victims want the real perpetrator(s) caught.
So what I am trying to understand is why Kyron’s parents have evolved into “TH has knowledge of what happened” and “she will be arrested”.
Since it was LE who told Kaine about the MFH plot and showed Kaine and Desiree the “TH hates Kyron” emails, it follows that Kaine and Desiree’s level of animosity toward TH has increased at least in some part due to information being supplied them by LE.
I am trying to understand why LE would share information with Kaine and Desiree that points to TH’s guilt if there is no foundation to do so. Is LE using the grieving parents of a missing child as pawns in a sick game to implicate an innocent person? I do not believe so.
@Jan
now that was a funny post about
Terri’s FB
Thanks I needed the laugh
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2010/12/cops_bust_major_marijuana_operation_in_portland_gresham.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/mexican_man_sentenced_to_25_ye.html
these are hot off the press about large drug busts on the eastern side of Portland, wonder if any of this links to our case
There were a couple guys with Estrada names in the Columbia Co. jail recently, if anyone is stil into looking
http://www.co.columbia.or.us/sheriff/inmates/index.php
RANDOM serial offender? So perhaps he didn’t even come to the school to get Kyron or he planed Kyron specifically a bit ahead of time?
What if TMH’s major crime with Kyron was leaving her FB wide open (and her very bad vibes about him?)
I can tell you if I was involved in Skyline School, I would organize those parents into some type of meeting, share and demand answers! There are supposed to be a lot of professional type parents in school community, I am surprised more isn’t done. Yes IT perp could be out of the country long ago, but it would be good to have a description of what we do know. When there was an attempted grab in St. Helens, not too far away, there was a meeting in the H.S. about how parents could protect their children, I saw a flyer. That program in the school Mockingbird mentioned looks great and necessary in this day and age.
Maybe stranger abductions are “pretty rare” relatively speaking, but they seem to be happening at an alarming increase. My understanding is that the Internet has fueled all these sicko desires. I looked but could not find again a survey done by a very professional trauma specialist that surveyed college students I think and the per cent who would do a child molest was high, if they could get away with it.Point is, many have the desire.
Blink, I thought it was great, simple, but profound to say, logic is not evidence, an important part of our training.
It’s hard to believe that the school hasn’t given LE/FBI/DA a list of all the companies they deal with and the companies wouldn’t have a list/record of all their employees.
@jan says “..Do you know if SF was advertised via email list merge blast to community &/or PPS, as poster claims?..”
It was not announced through Skyline Ridge Neighbors, what honestly surprises me given all the other school announcements. I scanned the 5/22, 5/15, 5/7, 4/23, 3/4, 2/27, 2/19, 2/14, 2/5, 2/1, 1/30, 1/23, 1/22, 1/15, 1/10 and 1/8/2010 Skyline Rural Watch Newsline emails.
12.iodizedseasalt says:
December 22, 2010 at 7:09 pm
if a pedophile- and a serial one at that abducted Kyron after Terri left, I still want to know why the school apparently did nothing to find him or at least call home to verify the absence. When my son stayed home with my mother (He was sick with a cold and I told him he was well enough to go to school) when he was 8, the school called me at work to tell me he didn’t get on the bus. My mom didn’t know that you had to call the school. If Kyron disappeared why was it not followed up? What don’t we know about this that LE isn’t saying? Ther is something about this they are not talking about
13.iodizedseasalt says:
December 22, 2010 at 7:11 pm
This is to me the most important fact in knowing how/why kyron disappeared. Does anyone here know the reason?
14.iodizedseasalt says:
December 22, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Why did the school/office/teacher not seem to care that Kyron was not there?________________________
I actually think the answer to the “why no phone call home” question is quite like Occam’s razor …
Because Terri was there, in person, at the school.
We already know that the teacher believes that terri told her, in person, that Ky would be going to the doctor that day. She marked him Absent when he wasn’t there.
Why no phone call home afterwards? Because Terri had physically been at the location, because the teacher believed his appt was that day, and ergo the belief was that the parent removed the child from the school to go to that appt.
Whether that was simply a tragic misunderstanding (or a set-up) remains to be seen.
What would a phone call from the teacher to the home have entailed:?? “Mrs. Hormon, I know you just left the school and said that you were taking Kyron out of class today to go to the doctor – and we haven’t seen him since you left … we just want to make sure you actually did what (I thought) you said you were going to do and take him.”
I simply don’t see any ill intent on the teacher’s part. It has been released that she and Terri have differing viewpoints on the exchange wrt the appt timing, but if I was the teacher and Terri stood in front of me and stated she was taking him to the doctor – I’d believe her. I would not consider that an “Unexcused Absence” … the parent having just physically stood in front of me and told me why he would not be there.
Hindsight is 20/20.
8.zeus says:
December 22, 2010 at 6:08 pm
cd says:
December 22, 2010 at 2:18 am
Following is an interesting answer about the DR.’s appointment
Was Kyron supposed to be out of school the following Friday for a doctor’s appt.?
“There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain.”
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I would have thought he would have called to doctor and found out all about the appointment by July.
Story Published: Jul 6, 2010 at 5:15 PM PST
http://www.katu.com/news/local/97904344.html
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So since Kaine said:
“There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain.”
I think they are well aware of what date the actual appointment was for and have been since immediately after Ky’s disappearance.
I think the comment is that “they were unsure of what date Terri actually BOOKED the appointment”. IE: What date the appointment was made (vice scheduled for).
Did she schedule the appt days prior to his disappearance … or the morning of etc?? Do Doctors staff even record the date someone calls to book an appointment? If not, this is possibly why they can’t comment … if the staff don’t record that, and they can’t remember the exact date/time she called to book it — then LE has no way of confirming/denying whether or not it was made prior to the critical time in question (Kyron last being seen).
Only my .02 cents worth.
iodizedseasalt says:
December 22, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Why did the school/office/teacher not seem to care that Kyron was not there?
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Multiple sources told KATU news, according to the link below, that TH told Kyron’s teacher she was taking him to a doctor’s appointment the day he went missing, which is why no one at the school was alarmed he was gone.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up?
That contradicts what multiple sources have told KATU News. In the days before the science fair, Terri informed Kyron’s teacher he had the appointment that day, June 4, which is why no one expected he would be in class and was marked absent.
Anyone that doubts Terri is involved needs to stand back and look again. It is SO obvious. She is cold, calculating and heartless. Looks as though she has never followed through with anything she ever set out to do in her life, except to rid herself of little Kyron. Prayers and love today and everyday for this sweet boy and with God’s help maybe he will come home safe. Love to Kyron. We WILL get justice for you. xxooxx.
Lorelei48, with all due respect, some of us (the minority, to be sure!) do not believe TMH was the mastermind, and a precious few of us even question whether or not she was involved at all beyond her lifestyle choices. Sometimes information is presented to lead to an “obvious” conclusion and to dismiss the possibility that there is much more to this than a “cold, calculating and heartless” woman (which I do not see, fwiw) is to enable another perp to continue to walk free.
My $.02 only; much love to Ky.
I’m not blaming the school at all I just think it’s a point of contention that TH claims not to have said there was an appointment that day but school officials seem to have believed there was an appointment. I’m just pointing out that the school was not alarmed that Kyron was missing but then if Terri did not take him with her (for appointment) WHEN and with WHOM was he to go to the appointment? Do you see what I’m getting at? and this is no offense to Blink- if there was an abductor, after Terri left- and Kyron was still at the school- but Terri said he had a doctors appointment so he should have been with her OR someone else??? What was the time of the appointment? Do you see where it doesn’t fit?
By the way- I’m a teacher on and off for many yrs Lately in a high school setting for the last 11 yrs. 10 yrs before that in private school
So I’m not against the school
Look (this is my last post today lol) I’m trying to focus on what was actually said by LE using the timeline- THINGS DONT FIT No offense to anyone but outlandish scenarios just confuse the issue. I also think that Kyron wearing the CSI tshirt is significant. Was it a way to identify Kyron to the person who abducted him?
I also think that Kyron using the bathroom a lot might be fear, nervousness – mention of him having to stay in his room-asking to use the bathroom he might have had to hold it for long periods of time. I remember seeing a pr of pants displayed that said were kyrons (not what he wore that day)and it had a huge stain that looked like he wet himself. I’d have to search on one of the sites or blogs.
Nancy says: “Multiple sources told KATU news, according to the link below, that TH told Kyron’s teacher she was taking him to a doctor’s appointment the day he went missing, which is why no one at the school was alarmed he was gone.”
But Kyron was still there after Terri had been observed leaving… so that leaves us hanging about the doctor’s appt doesn’t it? That’s the point I’m trying to make (last post)
Vern says:
Did she schedule the appt days prior to his disappearance … or the morning of etc??
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According to TH’s email of June 5 she scheduled the appointment on June 3, the day before Kyron’s disappearance.
8.Kimberly says:
December 22, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@ Blink,
Do you believe SZ is still in Oregon?
Yes.
B
Portland/Skyline area?
8.Kimberly says:
December 22, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@ Blink,
Do you believe SZ is still in Oregon?
Yes.
B
Possibly incarcerated/hold but lack of evidence or identification by witness(s)?
Jden says: December 22, 2010 at 1:08 pm
“DY stated earlier that KyH saw it all and was involved – what did she mean by that? DY also stated that a very credible witness saw a man by (Kaine’s truck) in the parking lot and I think she mentioned KyH being spotted as well, further saying that there was no reason for KyH to be outside the school at that time. What time was that, do we know?”
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@Lea Conner
Lea, if there is a credible witness who saw Ky and a man by the truck did that witness give a time of the sighting?
“jan says:
December 22, 2010 at 10:38 pm
@ Lea Conner says:
December 22, 2010 at 5:26 pm
That law enforcement interviewed a bus driver (or bus drivers) “multiple times” suggests law enforcement believes that the bus driver(s) have information that would be helpful to the investigation.
*******”
Law Enforcement interviewed everyone in the community multiple times, not just the bus drivers.
MockingbirdSings says:
(1) So there is no confusion, every teacher new to PPS is on probation for 3 years which means they have to have evaluations done by an administrator each year and the Board must vote to renew their contract again. After the 3rd year (as with Ms. Porter), the Board votes whether to place them on tenure. The scheduling of evaluations changes as well as the process for termination, but not much else.
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Exactly right MockingbirdSings. In addition, Oregon no longer really has tenure per se. Even those of us who have been teaching here for decades go through pretty much the same process you described for probationary teachers above.
iodizedseasalt says:
Why no phone call home afterwards? Because Terri had physically been at the location, because the teacher believed his appt was that day, and ergo the belief was that the parent removed the child from the school to go to that appt.
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Exactly!
MockingbirdSings says:
Teachers do not get what they need to recognize the signs of sexual abuse unless they pursue learning more on their own.
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Correct; the training is limited, if at all.
@ Blink,
Do you believe SZ is still in Oregon?
Yes.
B
Wow! My logic would be to get the hell out, far away and I know this is not about logic. Is this SZ (who has some type of intelligence, obviously not the moral kind) partly wanting to gloat over a clever crime so he (and others similarly) stick around to “admire” what they have done?
Kimberly says:
December 22, 2010 at 4:03 pm
True, but how would he know it was going to be early or
late on that particular day?
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Good question. When my children were picked up/dropped at the school bus stops their child care provider got there early every day in case the bus came early, as this was not uncommon. Likewise it was not uncommon for the bus to arrive a bit late on a regular basis.
MOO but for me the fact that a school mate knew about the appointment weighs in favor of Kyron’s teacher NOT misunderstanding or being confused about the doctor’s appointment.
—–
‘At the science fair preceding the boy’s disappearance, Terri Horman photographed Kurtis Holm with his science project. The boy’s mother, Kim Holm, said her son knew about Kyron Horman’s appointment, too.
“And the teacher said, ‘I thought he left with his mom,’ because they thought they had a doctor appointment,” Kim Holm said. “And then at lunchtime – Kurtis ate lunch with him every day – he wasn’t there at lunchtime. And then I got a call at 4:30ish, saying he didn’t get off the bus, I guess. And Kurtis said, ‘Oh yeah, I knew he was already gone all day, Mom.’” ‘
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98987454.html
“She thought I said I was taking Kyron with me to Kitty’s Dr appt, I said I was going to look at exhibits, how do you mess that up?”
Teacher must definitely have a hearing or comprehension problem. Not sure how you would mess that up.
Drove around for a few to get Kiara to calm down, no go, so off to the gym (paraphrasing)
Poor TH, constantly misunderstood. She was so concerned about Kiara’s health, she mentioned it to AL the day before, then on June 4th took her to an elementary school SF, at least three stores and then thoughtfully drove her around country roads before taking her to the gym daycare.
“Spacing out.” “mini-seizures” How sad that no other adults paid any attention to Kyron. TH even had a secret specialist Dr. to diagnose the mini-seizures over the phone before the appt!
MFH – just a little project of TH’s that never got completed.
Sexting – Hey, she was recently dumped by target of MFH and she was horney and needed a little fun. Kyron who? Not her problem anymore.
Since I have not seen an answer, let me reiterate this question:
“Have locals satisfied in their minds—said to have been ID’d as a parent. Is Mystery Man on the list?” (@Rose)
“Who is the Mystery Man in corner of SF photo?” (@jan on December 22, 2010 at 10:38 pm)
I have heard this time and time again, from people alleging to be parents of kids at skyline that this person has been Id’d and they have kidded him about it, etc.
Really? Since everyone’s name has been made public, why can’t any of those confirming him say who he is?
B
At 3:30 p.m., Terri was waiting for Kyron at the bus stop. When Kyron did not get off the bus she asked the driver where he was and the bus driver said he had not gotten on the bus that day. In a panic, Terri runs home to call the school, who told her Kyron had been marked absent that day.
http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/missing-child-alert-second-grader-kyron-horman-missing-from-school
Here is where I am having some trouble, maybe someone here can help me out?
Kaine’s statement said he was “maybe gonna take Kyron out for ice cream or play the wii after school”
There is also this statement, and I can’t find a news link for it, but did find it from Val Hall.
Valhall says:
July 6, 2010 at 9:56 PM
I note the following from this article:
Young also revealed that the day her son disappeared, his stepmother was supposed to drive him to Eugene to turn him over to his mother and stepfather to spend the weekend in Medford.
Tony Young said he was going to take the boy on a long-delayed fishing trip with the rod the stepfather had given him for Christmas.
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I live in Portland, and I can tell you that if I were the person doing that drive on a Friday, man oh man it would suck.
Rush hour traffic is horrible, and just to get out of town from the area the Horman’s lived is an I-5 South route and is easily an hours travel to go 15-20 miles.
We’re talkin 3 hours ONE way to Eugene and that is on a great traffic day. Then, 3 Hours back?
If I were making that trip I sure as heck would want to get out early and not be waiting around for a “special treat”! ( I think I heard one interview he said it was ice cream IIRC)
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/07/06/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-do-the-right-thing/
http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/4280195
@ Jackie Bauer
says:
December 22, 2010 at 10:53 pm
From TH FB page:
Terri Moulton Horman “Anyone else annoyed that we are required to fill out a census? I like to buck the system which is why when I make a phone call or text on my cell I go out and sit in my car.”
Wonder if that was the only reason? And why would calling and texting from the car be bucking the system?
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Her statements on the census and on hiding from the spies in her house when she uses her phone are interesting. No, I’m sorry, at the risk of insulting anyone, they’re hilariously funny. I haven’t really read too many of TH’s FB posts except a few strays.
I don’t want to insult anyone, sincerely, but a person who questions being required to answer a Census every 10 years is not very bright.
That comment of hers, plus thinking that texting outside her house is protecting her from something (what – spy cameras in her living room than can read what keystrokes she using???), tells me a bit more about her that I was trying to not consider being possible.
There are folks who live in my region who are fullbore conspiracy buffs. EVERYTHING is a sinister plot by the government. Is she like that? That could explain an inability to notice if the people she associated with as a social group included less-than-trustworthy folks. After all, one comment from some sympathetic soul on her FB about the lastest government plot could have her thinking she’s got a BFF for life, and that person winds up having committed tax fraud because “there’s no law requiring us to pay income taxes.”
Discretion choosing one’s friends might have never been one of TH’s skills, and thus her stepson suffers for it.
riverpearl says:
December 22, 2010 at 9:49 pm
wc says:
December 21, 2010 at 6:15 pm
1. I would like the blow by blow of TH meeting the bus, and Kaine and Kiara bringing up the rear while TH is standing there talking to the bus driver..
B
——
“Was Kaine waiting at the bus stop for Kyron to get off of the school bus?
“Yes I was. I walked Kiara down to the bus stop about 3:35 with Terri following close after we left. We all arrived down at the bus stop together and waited as the bus came to the stop.”
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To me what is odd about Blinks comment here is that it is a contradiction of Kaines description of how he and Terri met the bus on June 4. JMO
No contradiction from me, I was just asking. I am certain Kaine’s recollection is sound.
B
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she (TH) wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits. How do you mess that up?”
This got me to thinking:
The parents who came early with their children moved about as they wished. Prior to class starting there was no purpose in them sharing with staff their whereabouts or plans.
Why, then, did TH describe to Kyron’s teacher their upcoming movements if she planned to bring him to class on time that morning, as she claims to have done?
This lends credence to the earlier post that, according to the father of Kyron’s teacher, TH told Kyron’s teacher SHE was going to view the exhibits with Kyron instead of him going in a group.
If true, this seems to be another indication that TH ensured Kyron’s teacher did not expect to see him at 8:45 when class began (when viewing groups were formed) or for some time thereafter (doctor’s appointment).
Yet TH claims to have dropped Kyron off outside his classroom at 8:45, right on time or just a few minute after his class began, so he WOULD be part of the viewing groups.
In my opinion, something is very, very suspect about what TH did and said at Skyline Elementary on the morning of June 4, 2010, even according to her own words.
@Lea,
Can you elaborate on this?
I haven’t heard about this before?
TIA
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17.Lea Conner says:
December 22, 2010 at 5:26 pm
The question I had was about the attempted child snatching that occurred prior to Kyron’s disappearance. Stranger abductions are pretty rare.
42.puzzled says:
December 22, 2010 at 8:56 pm
@Essay Kaye
As Lea Conners said: Stranger abductions are pretty rare.
What’s the probability … not possibility or likelihood … but probability of a guy, unrecognized and unidentified, driving a white truck, attending a once a year event at a rural elementary school, parking at a not so accessible entryway, secluded out of sight of 200+ adults coming and going, luring a child, ( from a family with multiple hinky co-winky-dinks ), within moments of his stepmother leaving him in the hallway, ( without being seen or heard ), removing the child from the school, ( without being seen or heard ), securing him in the white truck and driving out of the schoolyard merging with the rest of traffic, turning left or right (who knows) and going over the horizon … without anyone noticing?
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After much research on the term of “probability”
I can say I am mathmatically hyper educated. lol
However; ZERO is the answer
Blink, do you also still believe that Kyron is somewhere on or near Sauvie Island?
“cold, calculating and heartless” woman (which I do not see, fwiw)
—Me either. I see much worse LOL.