Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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looky here
http://www.kval.com/news/local/112506339.html
Terri withdraws request to see her daughter
Story Published: Dec 27, 2010 at 9:14 AM PST
As an aside, Terri’s Nov. 2 filing of this document comes the same day that a site that looks into disappearance cases raised questions about the sender and recipient of those messages.
referring to Blink On Crime?
Yep.
B
Just wanted to put minds at ease. The paroled offender noted previously was captured on 9/1/2010. Hoping he has remained in custody now but not certain.
http://www.kptv.com/news/24844743/detail.html
Your up, I have intermittent power outage in the new snow belt, lol.
B
Juat watching nancy grace, in a hotel room, the only time i can see TV. Listening to report of jonathan foster.
a caller asked if there could be jealous step siblings. The Sub for Grace responded, that’ls like the Kyron Horman case: jealous step siblings could be a motive for murder in that case as well.
Now, that’s a strange response. At least Jonathan has an Amber Alert. I’ve learned from Foster, a vehicle or abductor description is not required. Too bad Kyron didnt.
I dont recommend driving thru 2 blizzards, as I did to get to this TV. but thank Blinkers who recommended driving with blankets & down, as it might have been important.
Re Louis, thanks beejay. I had done a “peoplefind” & had relatives & prior residential cities, nothing more online Myquestion is what prior employment in those cities, other youth coaching, etc. No electronic footprint re past activities.
Your Glee research vis a vis Brian is sad re view of young women being objectified. Viewers likely appreciate hot teen girls & relationships. Maybe he’s moving on to run a gym.
47.enumclawrose says:
December 27, 2010 at 8:36 pm
Your up, I have intermittent power outage in the new snow belt, lol.
B
*********************************************
LOL,
Quick someone toss Blink a sled!
48. Delete “for murder”. Grace’s Sub probably just said “a motive”. (step siblings thing)
re Holm. I think she’d be on List if she just drove her son to school, or stopped in office to clean out pta box neddnt have attended Fair rooms to have set foot (or car) on property
@ enumclawrose says:
December 27, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Beejay, It would make a HUGE difference to me. I don’t consider meeting the bus on the day your son disappears, a detail. BTW, what other details was he wrong about?
_________________
E-rose: Let’s just talk hypothetically here. Let’s suppose that some sources are saying that the bus stop events occurred a little differently than Kaine initially presented them (i.e., that the 3 family members were standing together when the bus arrived).
Going from there, I did find one taped interview where he sort of talked all around it and backed away from that earlier statement that they were all 3 standing together at the bus stop. I’ll link that backed-off video below, so you can see how it hits you. (Now, we know that memory is a fluid thing, the mind recalls it afresh at each memory retrieval occurrence. So, we have to allow for that–for everyone.)
Interpreting facts is hard, but here’s my take–as of today: I don’t see the changing presentation as an intentional deception. I believe he was trying to create an image of a “good” and involved father. One who put his daughter’s shoes on and strolled to the bus stop routinely as a family. Something we might expect him to do several afternoons a week (when he worked at home).
I don’t know if his recollection has evolved further. I can’t find a relevant statement by Kaine AFTER the sting and subsequent events. But if this ever goes to trial, any inconsistencies between witnesses WILL matter. They bother juries; and they bother defense attorneys. I’m assuming Kaine has no involvement in Ky’s disappearance, so it’s unimportant in that sense. And, of course, I have no idea what statements were made to the grand jury.
It’s just the kind of detail that makes me look critically at other statements someone makes.
@ Jackie: Sorry, I can’t give you my sources. I’m just trying to give you an independent confirmation of what Blink joked about earlier (the blow by blow account). My sources are not “inside” the investigation–i.e., not LE. But you’d be surprised what you can learn with feet on the ground and ears attuned, and sometimes a sympathetic ear.
http://salem.katu.com/content/marion-county-missing-sex-offender-has-potential-re-offend
Quite the round up going on here these days.
Sorry, e-rose; I forgot the video link:
http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Raw-Kyrons-parents-talk-about-bus-stop-97168909.html
Revisiting another thought. LE asking people if they observed anything that didn’t look right ,or caught their attention in the parking lots of Fred Meyer? What is that about? Is it another piece of the puzzle or not?
puzzled says:
December 27, 2010 at 7:29 pm
looky here
http://www.kval.com/news/local/112506339.html
Terri withdraws request to see her daughter
Story Published: Dec 27, 2010 at 9:14 AM PST
——————————————————
The story by KVAL looks like the same story published by KATU Story Published: Nov 3, 2010 at 11:39 AM PST Story Updated: Dec 27, 2010 at 10:17 AM PST although it does say KATU updated this story on Dec 27.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/106634729.html
I wonder why KVAL is just now running this story
@Blink et all between outages:
Witnesses (including DY) say Kyron was by a white truck with someone in it. Does LE think this is the someone that took KyH? WOuld this then be fairly certain? So if the description matched someone, that someone could get a Lie detector test and hopefully that would =SZ. It still seems to me that the description and the probability this SZ has been around the school and the lists, should help them narrow down who this
is. Course if the witnesses only saw a tiny bit or if the witnesses were 5 yrs. old, it would be tough.
Do they have an artist rendition? Is it possible or highly possible they are watching a suspect?
How does old RS relate to this SZ, if he might have been a tradesperson? It seems there are dots…
Snipped from here: http://www.kval.com/news/local/112506339.html
Terri’s lawyers have said they believe it is cruel to continue to deny Kiara the right to have contact with her mother but at the same time *****they concede that Terri cannot possibly fight for custody without stating her case, which could jeopardize her right against self incrimination***
.
An observer of the legal fight, family law attorney Drew Bobzien, said Terri’s lawyers had to pick their poison between halting the divorce and handcuffing their fight for visitation. ****He says Terri picked her right to stay silent over her desire to see her daughter.****
Personal information at issue: “…Further, Petitioner chose to attach to his affidavit deeply personal text messages [WARNING: These texts contain explicit content] between Respondent and a mutual friend of the parties.” As an aside, Terri’s Nov. 2 filing of this document comes the same day that a site that looks into disappearance cases raised questions about the sender and recipient of those messages. *****This new court filing seems to confirm Kaine Horman’s contentions.*****
My comments re: the above excerpts:
The asterisks are mine and I can’t help but wonder WHAT she could’ve done that was so awful that she’d rather give up her fight to see Kiara than risk self-incrimination. It must really be something, not just a little afternoon prostitution or phone sex.
Also, the statement re: the new court filing supporting Kaine’s contentions, does that mean that the Blink piece was possibly considered re: tampering, but this new filing supports that the sexts are legit and did come from TH & MC and no problem with them?
plz chang my name to safehaven I did not realize my actual name would post thanks
I did, but I cannot post your comment, it is an outright accusation, sorry.
B
We may have to chip in on a generator, or relocate Blink in to the sunbelt for the winters.
6.Kimberly says:
December 27, 2010 at 9:00 pm
47.enumclawrose says:
December 27, 2010 at 8:36 pm
Your up, I have intermittent power outage in the new snow belt, lol.
B
*********************************************
LOL,
Quick someone toss Blink a sled!
last sentence snip>
This new court filing seems to confirm Kaine Horman’s contentions.
http://www.kval.com/news/local/112506339.html
26.beejay says:
December 27, 2010 at 2:02 pm
BTW, would it make any difference to anyone if Kaine had remembered some details wrong about that aftn, and he didn’t exactly meet the bus with TH?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Beejay, and welcome back! Is this a hypothetical, or do we have any sources that indicate KH wasn’t being truthful when he said he, baby K, and TMH went down to meet the bus that afternoon? I would think that the school bus driver and the other children on the bus would be reliable witnesses regarding this encounter. But, I haven’t heard that any of those witnesses are talking. Are they?
Neighbor, Do you see this as a legit visit to the school, or is it unusual for a parent to miss the main event and show up later? (ie. Is the socceer coach in and out on a regular basis?) Also, what do you make of the time line? The talent show being at 1 pm is completely left out. Which begs the question, if Ky was not missed before the talent show, then certainly by the time the talent show started, red flags, right?
48.neighbor says:
December 27, 2010 at 6:56 pm
PDXRichie says “Odd it is said about half way through in this interview with Kim Holm that she wasn’t at the school. But her name is on the list that law enforcement released as being there… ..”
The time window expanded from 8-10am to 8-noon
Kimberly says:
December 27, 2010 at 9:00 pm
47.enumclawrose says:
December 27, 2010 at 8:36 pm
Your up, I have intermittent power outage in the new snow belt, lol.
B
*********************************************
LOL,
Quick someone toss Blink a sled!
+++++Knowing our dear Blink you will also need to send a helmut with chin guard and mounted light, elbow and knee pads and the sled better have bumper guards and brakes! Be safe my dear and goodnight all.
You got that right sista.
I am having bumpers sewn into my new trapper hat, lol.
B
Idahogal, Blinks comment makes me think you are on to something. Wanted to check on spelling of names. Obit has Catarino VILLAREAL (one R) and JMV has 2 L’s and 2 R’s. Can we verify if they indeed have the same last name (spelling). TIA.
Obit for Catarino Villareal
http://www.srnpdx.org/sites/default/files/RR1009_color.pdf
35.Idahogal says:
December 27, 2010 at 5:18 pm
jan says:
December 25, 2010 at 6:15 pm
(snipped)
Blink,
Let’s go further back in the timeline.
The TH MFH plot was being cooked up in Winter 2009.
Who else was TH in contact with around that time? Any other MFH plots going on in area? Do locals know more about Cat Villarreal; was his untimely motorcycle death really an “accident?”
Any relations to JMV?
———
@Jan – I’ve done some research on the Villlarreals in the past and asked the same question about the motorcyle accident, LOL.
It didn’t go anywhere for me. Blink said AV is a hot mess and needs an intervention, LOL again. I will say that I would definitely like to know if the above referenced JMV is related to the Skyline clan. Maybe someone with a veromi account like beejay or kimberly could do a check on that? It would be much appreciated, because if they are related that could be a potential new lead for us.
At this point I’ll take anything new we can stumble upon, I’m just desperate here.
I definitely give you points for tenacity, can anyone that is not me help her out?
B
Idahogal, After that post, I noticed that the obit spelled his (Cat’s) last name both ways. Wish we could pin that down for sure. It would help.
rollermonkey says:
December 21, 2010 at 5:44 pm
I do remember in one interview Kaine personally described Terri as deliberately lagging behind him and Kiara when going to meet Kyron at the bus. In the interview he described how he had to put Kiara’s shoes on. If I recall correctly, Kaine said he and Kiara were waiting at the bus. It stopped and Kyron did not get off. Kaine asked the bus driver about Kyron and was told he wasn’t on the bus. The bus driver contacted the school on the radio and was advised Kyron had been absent that day. In the interveiw Kaine said he just remembers running up the driveway… he also mentioned something about Terri speaking with the bus driver at that point… Don’t know that this make a difference, but I do remember this interview.
I think we should probably have a link for this, respectfully, I do not think is accurate.
B
————–
Blink … actually, I read the same thing in an interview Kaine did where he described walking to the bus stop to get Kyron w/Kiara and Terri and according to him, he was walking with Kiara with Terri somewhat behind them walking to the bus stop so I was always under the impression that Kaine was first and TMH was lagging behind. But on the Oregonian site, they do in fact say that Terri went to the bus stop to get Kyron and he wasn’t there, but no mention of Kaine at all in that article, so not sure what really happened. However, in the article here, Kaine himself is giving the interview, and this is in fact what he describes to the media … that he and Kiara walked down to the stop w/Terri slightly behind them. If that’s true, then at least to me, it would make more sense that Kaine was actually the one to talk to the bus driver, although I suppose it could’ve been both of them.
Here is the link regarding Kaine’s interview:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/97845894.html
(snipped)
KAINE
Reporters: Trying to clear up so many reports that have been out there:
Was Kaine waiting at the bus stop for Kyron to get off of the school bus?
Yes I was. I walked Kiara down to the bus stop about 3:35 with Terri following close after we left. We all arrived down at the bus stop together and waited as the bus came to the stop.
Got it, thanks, I think that covers all the versions and finally the accurrate one.
B
TVD – Boy Scouts
James is said to have been camping with Boy Scouts and his father RT, when Ky went missing.
@ Idahogal
At this point I’ll take anything new we can stumble upon…
****************
If you’re in the mood for a circuitous FB route from Ron T. to Portland Van Dyke clan, click through 7 degrees of separation:
Ron Tarver:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000705881954&sk=friends&v=friends
to Jennifer Tarver Nicholson, then Danny Nicholson, to Jake Decker, to Shawn Cox, to:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=719795979
aaron raven, finally to Jason Van Dyke.
Which brings us back to Beejay, Kimberly or a veromi account:
Is predator TVD possibly related to Portland VanDyke clan?
Submit Comment button didn’t take all links, so just click through FB posted accounts.
Timur’s last name is Van Dykes, with an S.
B
@Blink,
“I think it is a stretch to call her a “likely player.
B “
Not with her face on an LE poster it isn’t.
“I will be glad to advise.”
Thanks.
By the way, it’s “retort.”
K
You mean the poster they publicly backed off of?
Thanks for the spelling lesson, I find I learn all kinds of things when I disagree with someone.
B
#
iodizedseasalt says:
December 22, 2010 at 7:11 pm
This is to me the most important fact in knowing how/why kyron disappeared. Does anyone here know the reason?
#
iodizedseasalt says:
December 22, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Why did the school/office/teacher not seem to care that Kyron was not there?
———————–
The 1st thought that entered my mind after reading your question is the same thing that has been in the back of my mind silently for awhile because it seemed too outrageous to actually post w/o someone else first mentioning it. Even now, I hesitate to write it here but the only thing I have ever come up with is, “is it possible that someone in the office who would’ve been responsible for alerting Ky’s family that he was absent is potentially involved somehow w/SZ and/or were part of the plan? Do they themselves have connections with SZ that no one knows about? I really don’t know, but even the thought of that gives me chills down my spine. I just can’t come up with any other logical reason that no one seemed to be alerted to the fact that he was “missing” for so many hours with not even a finger being lifted to locate him, see if he was in fact “in the bathroom” if that were honestly the case, etc. Why didn’t anyone actually check on his alleged whereabouts? Why didn’t the office call his home? WHY WHY WHY????
The interview in which Desiree Young references Kyron outside the school states that he was seen near a third party and a white truck. is not clear whether she is responding to a question about Kyron being seen near “a white truck” or “Kaine’s truck.”
Desiree Young asked what Kyron was doing outside the school? The only reason that would be a question is if he was outside after the time frame when Terri Horman reportedly told Kyron goodbye in the hallway and left the school. That means that Ms. Young knows of a sighting of Kyron after Terri Horman left the science fair. (Ms. Young believes that also Ms. Horman left the science fair, she had not yet left the school.)
More important, Ms. Young puts Kyron near a white truck — perhaps even “Kaine’s truck” — outside the school and with a third party, but not Terri Horman.
Ms. Young calls the witness “very authentic” and agrees that the report is credible.
Ms. Young’s assertion that Ms. Horman is involved seems to indicate that she believes Kyron was near “Kaine’s truck.” However, it is possible that the witness is confused and Kyron was last seen near a white truck, but not “Kaine’s truck.”
This is just my opinion, but if there were any evidence that conclusively placed Kyron in “Kaine’s truck,” then surely Ms. Horman would have been arrested and charged.
Just as an aside, and I do not think this has been discussed, but it is also entirely possible that what is/was considered an authentic witness account could have been a different child as well.
I have seen non-public images of some of the kids at the SF that day, and from the back, I saw at least 3 that could have been mistaken for Kyron.
B
Dang-nibbity!
BEEJAY, you’ve got the words.
Everyone else…you’re dogged and on the trail with passion.
Thanks to all of you for continuing to spel it out.
And BeeJay, I might have to give up the WordGirl persona to you…
I think it’s strange that LE ask KATU to air any footage of witness accounts that they have on Dec 27.
http://www.katu.com/home/video/98647489.html
I get the feeling that all of the stuff they revealed were things that people following the case already knew, or had heard of.
——————————————————————
Story Published: Aug 11, 2010 at 10:23 AM PST Story Updated: Aug 11, 2010 at 5:48 PM PS
A witness or witnesses have come forward and provided us with information about a person or persons associated with that pickup truck. … By associated we mean in or in immediate proximity to that truck,” said Rod Underhill, Multnomah County’s chief deputy district attorney.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100455014.html
——————————-
Story Published: Jul 21, 2010 at 8:32 PM PST Story Updated: Jul 21, 2010 at 8:37 PM PST
And the teacher said, ‘I thought he left with his mom,’ because they thought they had a doctor appointment,” Kim Holm said. “And then at lunchtime – Kurtis ate lunch with him every day – he wasn’t there at lunchtime. And then I got a call at 4:30ish, saying he didn’t get off the bus, I guess. And Kurtis said, ‘Oh yeah, I knew he was already gone all day, Mom.’”
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98987454.html
—————-
Story Published: Jul 14, 2010 at 10:05 AM PST Story Updated: Jul 14, 2010 at 5:23 PM PST
One person who has been asked again about what he saw is Skyline seventh-grader Tyler Kessinger, whose science fair project was on antimatter. He said investigators came back to interview him last week at his home.
“I just saw him (Kyron) in the gym, and I saw the truck out in the parking lot,” he said Wednesday. Kessinger said Kyron was looking at other students’ science fair projects, seemed happy and was with friends.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html
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There is also this new report from Kval dated Dec 27 that looks like re print of a story KATU aired in November.
Story Published: Dec 27, 2010 at 9:14 AM PST
http://www.kval.com/news/local/112506339.html
Story Published: Nov 3, 2010 at 11:39 AM PST Story Updated: Dec 27, 2010 at 10:17 AM PST
http://www.katu.com/news/local/106634729.html
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So why are all of these older interviews/stories being re reported all of a sudden. Is it because The January divorce trial is comming up and LE/News reporters want to remind everyone about these interviews?
How do we know that LE requested this? I thought it was odd coverage as well.
B
puzzled says:
December 27, 2010 at 7:31 pm
As an aside, Terri’s Nov. 2 filing of this document comes the same day that a site that looks into disappearance cases raised questions about the sender and recipient of those messages.
referring to Blink On Crime?
Yep.
B
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Yep indeed. This link in the article goes straight to BOC. So…we know for certain that have readers from the TH camp here. Isn’t that just peachy? Biting my virtual tongue…
Snipped from TH Nov. 2nd filing: Link to BOC Nov. 2nd post by Blink and Lea:
Personal information at issue: “…Further, Petitioner chose to attach to his affidavit deeply personal text messages [WARNING: These texts contain explicit content] between Respondent and a mutual friend of the parties.” As an aside, Terri’s Nov. 2 filing of this document comes the same day that a site that looks into disappearance cases raised questions about the sender and recipient of those messages. This new court filing seems to confirm Kaine Horman’s contentions.
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Back to my tenacious self here: I did a drive by of the JMV SO…his residence is within 1/2 mile of an elementary school. Said school is slated for demo and new school built due to security concerns. Said school is a “security nightmare”, quote from local school district officials. This residence has all drapes closed, plastic blocking garage windows from the inside, shed back yard with plastic blocking windows. Makes me wonder WTH is going on behind “closed doors”. We need more stringent laws in regards to these repeat offenders to ensure the safety of our kids. Seems like they all just get a short jail term and are out again, free to assault more victims. I’m effing sick of it. Examples of SOs currently trotting around freely in the Portland area provided by beejay via this link:
http://www.sunschools.org/Public/EntryPoint?sort=sex-offender-sex-offender-zip&ch=1d09d146a590c010VgnVCM1000003bc614acRCRD
I noticed a few familiar names such as T Van Dykes and N Kelly. Makes me want to puke.
Also, just an FYI, another child porn arrest of a 10 year teacher in Dayton, OR., SW of Portland metro area:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Dayton-teacher-accused-of-having-child-porn-112481404.html
How do we know that LE requested this? I thought it was odd coverage as well.
B
The KATU news reporter says that they are sharing information because of the sherrif’s request at the begining of this video
http://www.katu.com/home/video/98647489.html
“The sherif’s office has ask media outlets to share interviews done about Kyrons disappearance.”
They actually did not still have footage of some of the interviews, so they did some re-interviewing. The only news I heard or at least it was news to me was that Kim Holme said that Kurtis heard that KY was at a doctors appointment from the teacher and not KY. JMO
Ok, I think that is what was misleading. LE asked for that interview footage, back then, to be shared with them, they did not request it on the 27th or request it be re-released.
B
Blink says @ 7:18am
How do we know that LE requested this? I thought it was odd coverage as well.
B
********************************************************************
Blink.
http://www.katu.com/home/video/98647489.html
In this clip the KATU news anchors and the reported are discussing how detectives have asked them for any recordings they have of people they’ve interviewed that said they saw Kyron after 8:45am on June 4th.
Also of note is the news anchors detailed comments at the very end of the link – she says that they wish they had more saved taped/stored interviews, but that they don’t always “save” everything they record.
The anchor holds up a flash drive and talks about what they save and what they don’t have storage space to save.
It sounds like they only save the stories that make it to air on their channel on 4GB flash drives b/c of the space that would be needed to store everything they record.
http://www.katu.com/home/video/98647489.html
http://www.katu.com/home/video/98647489.html
The reporters comments about LE asking for any recordings that the media may have are at the very beginning of this link – and then at the very end the news anchor explains that they don’t have storage space to save everything they have ever recorded (usually only clips that have made it to air).
Inbetween are the interviews with Tyler and the odd (MOO) interview with Kim Holm.
@justice23: you said, ““is it possible that someone in the office who would’ve been responsible for alerting Ky’s family that he was absent is potentially involved somehow w/SZ and/or were part of the plan? Do they themselves have connections with SZ that no one knows about? I really don’t know….”
_________
Of course, that’s a possibility, too. But sometimes things are just eff-ups–ya know? busy day, teacher’s memory played tricks on her; school didn’t follow their own absence reporting policies; perp who grabbed a kid gets a bonus time frame to run. But I’m with you–nobody is cleared in my mind yet.
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@Word Girl: TY very much. Usually I’m known as the too-many-words-girl.
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Blink: this is KATU’s OLD video, with the reporter’s introductory remarks that LE had requested their video interviews of witnesses (back then–not now). Anita Song explains whey they didn’t comply initially.
Other portland media are doing rehashes, Top-10 stories of 2010, etc. Happens where I’m from during holidays when staff takes time off. Maybe there are other explanations, though. This is the run-up time to the Jan 6 divorce events (which I think might drive me totally nuts).
Just as an aside, and I do not think this has been discussed, but it is also entirely possible that what is/was considered an authentic witness account could have been a different child as well.
I have seen non-public images of some of the kids at the SF that day, and from the back, I saw at least 3 that could have been mistaken for Kyron.
B
________________
Now, THAT’S the most interesting thing I’ve heard in a long, long time. But it could blow our treasured theories out of the water. We will all sit back and think awhile on that, I’m sure. TY, Blink!
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@Idahogal: I don’t have a veromi account; you don’t need one. The world of people databases is your very own oyster!!
Just google “veromi” or “radaris”. Here’s a link to veromi:
http://www.veromi.com/NameIdxL2Pg000000007.aspx
EmGee says: I still can’t picture a sexual motivation involving Kyron but trying to remain at 25,000 ft. Sorry, I can’t get 30,000 ft. away from SM.
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It’s not that much of a stretch if you consider what type of person would be willing to assist in the disappearance of an eight year old boy. Stepmom has the motive, but so does her accomplice.
11.beejay says:
December 27, 2010 at 9:30 pm
@ enumclawrose says:
December 27, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Beejay, It would make a HUGE difference to me. I don’t consider meeting the bus on the day your son disappears, a detail. BTW, what other details was he wrong about?
~~~~
It’s HUGE to me also. The problem I’ve had all along is the story line we’ve been spoon fed. I may not be the brightest bulb in the lamp, but there’s still a 40 watt bulb that’s on and provides enough light for even me to see that things do not add up.
The mystery is not longer just about who took Kyh and where he might be … it’s now clear that the investigation is not all it should have been. Cover up?
I have seen non-public images of some of the kids at the SF that day, and from the back, I saw at least 3 that could have been mistaken for Kyron.
B
~~~
fwiw … wonder what the chances are that there are other children with a similiar profile as KyH and could have equally been a target for abduction?
puzzled says:
December 28, 2010 at 10:41 am
I have seen non-public images of some of the kids at the SF that day, and from the back, I saw at least 3 that could have been mistaken for Kyron.
B
~~~
fwiw … wonder what the chances are that there are other children with a similiar profile as KyH and could have equally been a target for abduction?
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I would say the chances are none as I believe Kyron was specifically targeted.
11.beejay says:
December 27, 2010 at 9:30 pm
I don’t know if his recollection has evolved further. I can’t find a relevant statement by Kaine AFTER the sting and subsequent events. But if this ever goes to trial, any inconsistencies between witnesses WILL matter. They bother juries; and they bother defense attorneys. I’m assuming Kaine has no involvement in Ky’s disappearance, so it’s unimportant in that sense. And, of course, I have no idea what statements were made to the grand jury.
~~~
at the risk of starting a run of the bulls … why is it when someone bumps up against “Kaine” they immediately back off with “I’m assuming Kaine has no involvement”?
Statistically speaking, parent involvement is more likely than stranger abduction. Since the “obvious” parent has been under a continual microscope and no direct link (that we know of) can be made to the abductor, why are we not suppose to look at the other parent? At least to the extent of lifestyle involving both parents. Why is it ok to desecrate the step-mom because of the inconsistencies in her story and not look at the dad and his?
OK … I’m running
Jackie Bauer
says:
December 27, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Snipped from here: http://www.kval.com/news/local/112506339.html
Terri’s lawyers have said they believe it is cruel to continue to deny Kiara the right to have contact with her mother but at the same time *****they concede that Terri cannot possibly fight for custody without stating her case, which could jeopardize her right against self incrimination***
.
****He says Terri picked her right to stay silent over her desire to see her daughter.****
JackieBauer says:
The asterisks are mine and I can’t help but wonder WHAT she could’ve done that was so awful that she’d rather give up her fight to see Kiara than risk self-incrimination. It must really be something, not just a little afternoon prostitution or phone sex.
**************************************************************************************
Exactly Jackie.
That statement from TMH’s lawyer always bugged me — boo hoo poor Terri denied her rights to see her daughter.
That’s Terri – always painting herself the victim.
I got news for you TMH – this is NOT all abut you.
There is an innocent little boy that deserves to be found, and Desiree deserves to have the peace of knowing where her beloved son is.
Tell the truth for a change Terri.
The fact that Terri Moulton Horman is not willing or able to fight to see her daughter because she needs to worry about self-incrimination says it all to me.
What did TMH do/what does TMH know that would cause her attorneys to “concede that Terri cannot possibly fight for custody without stating her case, which could jeopardize her right against self incrimination”?
TMH is not able to open her mouth to try to see her daughter b/c she’d incriminate herself in something that is key to finding Kyron.
Either she knows what happened to Kyron or she knows details and/or names of people that could help LE to find out what happened June 4th.
Terri Moulton Horman is obviously more worried about trying to save her own ass.
I have faith that good will triumph over evil eventually.
Sorry for the rant this morning.
It just makes my blood boil that TMH is sitting at Mommy + Daddies house and refusing to help in anyway.
.
I’m outta here for awhile; hoping for more TSA groping–and by a male.
I’ll be able to read but not post for awhile. Ya’ll keep up the great work. (I hope the perv/perp is on a list somewhere, but I fear he isn’t–yet. Let’s get him on one!)
***************
@puzzled, you said: “fwiw … wonder what the chances are that there are other children with a similiar profile as KyH and could have equally been a target for abduction?”
__________
Now, that WOULD be interesting, wouldn’t it? What IF he grabbed the wrong kid? (If so, everyone’s gonna have to trash their Terri-did-it stories and, as Blink said, start over.) Here’s another possibility: a perv who liked slender blond boys and found where there were gonna be several (hey, we all have a “type” we’re attracted to…) I’m open to all possibilities.
As to your other thoughts about the investigation and coverups and such, IDK. I believe that Kaine has tried to control the information flow, as well as to present things in the best light for him–as ANYONE normally would. He has other concerns here, one being his entire financial future; custody of Kiara. What divorcing parents don’t fight with each other through their children? (A few saints aside, they all do.) Let’s remember to TRY to tease apart these various issues. Very complicated. Lots of “data” and very little “info”.
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@GraceintheHills: I’m not ignoring your question to be annoying. Please believe that my first loyalty is to the LE investigation of Ky’s disappearance. It’s heart work for me; a good retirement project. I have long-term friends who’re retired LE, mostly feds. They’re way too young for shuffleboard. They’ve gone into the private sector in computer forensics, or private practice as PIs, etc. I’ve managed to engage the interest of several of them in this case. They have contacts in lots of places, they have free time, and we all love both kids and the law. (Oh, and none of us are shy.)
I assume we all know/learn some things that we won’t be fully disclosing here, and that Blink would not publish if we did. And we all get annoyed with each other because of that. So, sometimes we’ll be talking “hypothetically”, yes?? It can stretch our thinking, at least.
Something that struck me about Kim Holm’s interview is her comment that her youngest son was allowed to go bowling with Terri and Kyron Horman days before Ky’s disappearance. She followed that up by saying she is very careful about who her children are allowed to go with, implying that she is a very careful and diligent mother.
Then I click on links to the FB and MySpace pages of her children and am shocked at their level of developement and social outlook on life. One child was asked by a cousin if he would be at his mom’s for a holiday (Thanksgiving or Christmas, not sure which) and he replied he doesn’t like being around his mom. They are opposed to law enforcement. They support satan. Drink in abundance. Are in trouble with the law. Just general misfits, or worse. Their only enjoyment seems to come only from drinking, smoking ganja, and avoiding the popo.
I’m not judgemental and understand kids can rebel, be covered in tatoos, listen to metal, etc… and still be good kids, but the level of ‘ick’ speaks pretty loudly. Children don’t get that way on their own and certainly not if they have diligent parents.
May or may not have a bearing on Kyron’s case.
Rose says:
December 27, 2010 at 7:05 pm
@21. Cd. Despite Fair, school began at the second bell (845?). Buses would have followed regular drop off times. That schedule should be published & available from PPS.
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Well, now I’m confused. I know that we have been around and around about the communication with TH and the teacher. It has been stated that Kyron was marked absent at 10:00. I never questioned that because of the late start time. If the buses with the children arrived at the same time that they did everyday then they would have had to take roll at 8:45. They wouldn’t allow all the children who rode the buses to run around freely until 10:00. now I am having a hard time finding where that information originated from that he was marked absent at 10:00 and is that accurate?
From the information provided by the earlier poster, and TH’s e-mail, TH and teacher agree that TH was going to look at the exhibits.
Any help? Puzzeled my 40 watt must be flickering after to much egg nog, or maybe too much rock band hero LOL!
Kyron, where the heck are you little guy? You should have been home by now…
Kyron’s bus driver most assuredly supplied independent information to LE regarding whether or not Kaine met the bus that day, how the conversations with the driver went, who spoke to the driver first and last, who ran to the car, who suggested calling 911 etc.
Since the public is not privy to the bus driver’s testimony, in my opinion there is no foundation to assume wrongdoing on the part of LE or that they are covering for Kaine.
Prayers and love today and everyday for Kyron.
Another boy has mysteriously disappeared…on Christmas eve in Houston. His name is Jonathan Foster and he resembles Kyron, although a few years older. I wonder if there could be s transient kidnapper traveling around the country taking kids with a certain profile/look a la Jet Duncan.
As I think more on Kyron, I feel that he might have been lured into a service closet, knocked out and removed in a trash bag within a trash can, rolled up to a truck and unloaded into it, then driven off. I just can’t figure out any other way that he could have left without being seen by anyone.
Here’s a link to Seamus ORiley blog where he does some statement analysis that includes the bus walk/cat. His take on the “shoe” incident is different:
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/07/lying-and-murder-theme-continued-in.html
For those who haven’t read Seamus before, he nailed the family problems and TH frustration with Kyron long before we’d ever heard a peep about it. I didn’t believe at the time that he could be right, but that changed.
@Beejay: re: your statement “… My sources are not “inside” the investigation–i.e., not LE. But you’d be surprised what you can learn with feet on the ground and ears attuned, and sometimes a sympathetic ear.”
Beejay, I wouldn’t be surprised at all! Often I get good intel from those who know unofficially and sometimes they don’t even know what they’re telling me is relevant. But it’s also how I’ve gotten led astray by some big rumors and I’ve been played that way, too, from someone baiting me, or someone who knew I was seemingly sympathetic, so I’m wary.
In this case, after listening again to KHs accounts of the bus stop and reading his written response (links are above), I personally, JMOO, think that it would be erroneous and unfair to call Kaine’s stories misrepresentations, or misleading. Maybe your source has an ulterior motive and tried to twist KH’s lack of detail in the one interview to fit the story they believe? Maybe they were just trying to get your attention? I don’t know.
After re-watching the videos and re-reading the questions, my answer to your question “BTW, would it make any difference to anyone if Kaine had remembered some details wrong about that aftn, and he didn’t exactly meet the bus with TH?” is that from what I can tell, he *did* meet the bus with TH and there were some details not included in one of his statements, but that doesn’t mean he remembered them “wrong”. Also, at trial, I would think Kaine’s sworn statements to LE would be the focus although if there were any meaningful misses, then he would be questioned about those. Again, jmoo and I’m sure others will take your question and interpret differently.
I’m going to be in Portland this weekend, so it will be interesting to hear the different stories from friends’ POV.
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Blink, given your statement that
“I have seen non-public images of some of the kids at the SF that day, and from the back, I saw at least 3 that could have been mistaken for Kyron.
B”
Does this mean that the account you’ve heard re: Kyron leaving the school with someone else (SZ) may not have been Kyron at all? And Kyron could still have left with TH? Or are you still firmly convinced about how/with whom Kyron left?
Firmly convinced.
B
“Jan says
December 25, 2010 at 6:15 pm
(snipped)
Blink,
Let’s go further back in the timeline.
The TH MFH plot was being cooked up in Winter 2009.
Who else was TH in contact with around that time? Any other MFH plots going on in area? Do locals know more about Cat Villarreal; was his untimely motorcycle death really an “accident?”
Any relations to JMV?”
For me, the question surrounding Cat Villareal is not whether or not his death was an accident (as events relate to Kyron) but what was the reason Kim Holmes cancelled the benefit/celebration for Cat? Cat dies 09/19 service to be held 09/25. 09/21 message from skyline ridge neighbors goes out requesting donations to help the family w/expenses; account set up under Avery and lets everyone know about a benefit/celebration for Cat on 10/03. On 09/22 a message goes out that the 10/03 celebration had been cancelled at Kim’s request. http://catvillarreal.blogspot.com/
I have always wondered if Kim/Avery found out something after Kat died. Kat was not there to question and they would only have their imaginations to fill in the blanks. The old Skyline ridge neighbors web site also had a article that stated Kim Holmes did not want anyone approaching her/children w/condolences
@Jackie: yes, I understand what you’re saying. Believe me, as a clinical psychologist I could separate a whole family into different consult rooms and come out of each one with an entirely different slant. That’s why I ALWAYS go to totally unrelated sources and compare their tales and put it in the context of all other facts. Truly, I’m not that easily taken in, nor are the retired fed agents I know. But since you don’t know me, I don’t see how I can be of much use to you.
Anywho, I don’t think it matters at all about the bus stop because I don’t think any varied recollections by Kaine were anything but that. Or, at worst, colored by how his ideal-self notions. I do, however, think there’s a bit of spin we need to watch out for–from all parties.
Go back to Blink’s original comment about wanting to hear the bus stop blow by blow from Kaine, and her “lol”. There’s a lot of subtlety there.