Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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From my earlier post above: “Does this mean that the account you’ve heard re: Kyron leaving the school with someone else (SZ) may not have been Kyron at all? And Kyron could still have left with TH? Or are you still firmly convinced about how/with whom Kyron left?
Firmly convinced.
B”
Hmmm. Then this tells me your intel must be SOLID, which leads me back to my original question about why this info hasn’t been released to the public to ID the SZ. There must be a reason and there must be a reason the media isn’t all over this. Odd, odd, odd. One possibility that popped into my mind as I was typing is that LE knows or suspects that the SZ has the personal finances that would allow him to disappear himself if they let it be known, but that still doesn’t make sense because if they know that much about him, then wouldn’t they have a good idea *who* he is … odd, odd, odd.
OK, waiting for my ride, but I gotta put one last thing in.
Rich M: We can see that Kim Holm is not camera-shy. I guess she has no reason to be??
I don’t know why Blink feels that the Ky-grabber would need to have superior IT skills. So, I continue to rustle up electronic sources of student info. Apparently till Portland Youth Soccer Assn changed its policies at their June 1, 2010 meeting, they were putting the kids’ names in a database. Here’s the link to the minutes from that meeting (Kim H. was absent). There might be some data archives worth drilling into in other meetings, as well. I don’t have time right now.
link: http://www.portlandyouthsoccer.com/doclib/PYSA BOD 6.1.10.pdf
The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print.
B
@Dee, re: your statement: “As I think more on Kyron, I feel that he might have been lured into a service closet, knocked out and removed in a trash bag within a trash can, rolled up to a truck and unloaded into it, then driven off. I just can’t figure out any other way that he could have left without being seen by anyone.”
Plausible, but Blink says that he was seen leaving with someone else. And she is firmly convinced that the evidence/witness is solid.
enumclawrose says “Neighbor, Do you see this as a legit visit to the school, or is it unusual for a parent to miss the main event and show up later? (ie. Is the socceer coach in and out on a regular basis?) Also, what do you make of the time line? The talent show being at 1 pm is completely left out. Which begs the question, if Ky was not missed before the talent show, then certainly by the time the talent show started, red flags, right?”
—
Kim is often present at school. Judging from some of her older kids FB profiles, she probably has her hands full at home.
IMO the 8-10am open doors makes Ky absence fuzzy. While I would sign my child out when leaving before school started (8:45am), I can also imagine people not doing so and just shooting a “my child has a dr apt” email later.
This has no bearing on the case, but I did find it odd that Kyron’s BF that starts with K went bowling for the first time this year, and he is older than Kyron.
B
The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print.
B
Blink obviously knows way more about this topic than she can say. It seems like an important point she’s made more than once or twice. Almost like a clue. Another hmmm for me.
**********************************
@Beejay: re: your statement “I could separate a whole family into different consult rooms and come out of each one with an entirely different slant. That’s why I ALWAYS go to totally unrelated sources and compare their tales and put it in the context of all other facts. Truly, I’m not that easily taken in, nor are the retired fed agents I know. But since you don’t know me, I don’t see how I can be of much use to you.”
I wasn’t saying that you were that easily fooled, either. I was just elaborating on what you said about learning things by listening, seeming sympathetic, etc. And as for not knowing you, well, that is true, but I think you’re input has still been useful to me, and I’ve learned from it.
Re: the bus stop, I don’t think that there was any hoopla surrounding the bus stop either. What I think is that your original question, the way it was phrased, made it sound as if there were. I included the Seamus link because he has quite a different analysis regarding KH and what you state are his “ideal self-notions”. It’s just another perspective on the words, and I don’t think any POV is gospel.
And re: this: “Go back to Blink’s original comment about wanting to hear the bus stop blow by blow from Kaine, and her “lol”. There’s a lot of subtlety there.” Again, I interpreted that a bit differently (you & I are probably different Myers-Briggs types
) . I personally didn’t think Blink was questioning KHs version, but was stating that there was probably far more to it. That was my own interpretation, certainly not speaking for Blink here.
3.beejay says:
December 28, 2010 at 2:23 pm
… I as a clinical psychologist I could separate a whole family into different consult rooms and come out of each one with an entirely different slant.
~~~
that’s credible enough for me!! I’m pretty good at following bread crumbs out of the woods.
The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print.
B
~~~
we’re really banging our collective heads against a brick wall. We are not gonna find this guy via his e-print.. his tracks are too deeply hidden. Which sends me right back around the loop to online child pornography.
The problem I have .. and yes I have many .. with TH is her lack of connection to SZ. She does not have superior IT skills so who does she know who does?
beejay says “I don’t know why Blink feels that the Ky-grabber would need to have superior IT skills. …”
B says “The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print.”
NO E-PRINT might refer to so many things. Untraceable internet activity; untraceable cell phone; use of aliases; and probably even avoiding CCTV (traffic) cameras altogether. This no only around the time of the crime, but more as a lifestyle.
I will not list examples, but it does not take great skills to anonymize your Internet presence. While there are many legit uses (i.e. Chinese dissidents), by participating in such a ring you risk being used for less honorable purposes.
Thank you for your responsible post.
You said eloquently what I failed to do, subtley.
B
@puzzled says:
December 28, 2010 at 3:16 pm
The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print.
B
~~~
we’re really banging our collective heads against a brick wall. We are not gonna find this guy via his e-print.. his tracks are too deeply hidden. Which sends me right back around the loop to online child pornography.
The problem I have .. and yes I have many .. with TH is her lack of connection to SZ. She does not have superior IT skills so who does she know who does?
————————————-
SZ
Puzzled says on 12/28/10 @ 3:16 pm – “She does not have superior IT skills so who does she know who does?”. Does Michael Cook? In the beginning he did set up a web site for Kyron. I wonder if he does.
Jackie Bauer
says:
December 28, 2010 at 3:06 pm
The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print.
B
*********************
I saw something to this effect posted here before; “that the school district the Hormans’ live in is full of PHD tech people.” I agree. I would say a huge concentration of “geeks,” some children are even are very good with this kind of thing. My daughter home from college is showing me all kinds of stuff she has learned from other’s in the dorms. OMG, I was was shocked. I don’t think she would have to look far for a person like this.
It could be a parent she met through James, (is his name allowed?) Someone from the gym, (Intel people all over that gym.) Anywhere. Someone who was possibly also angry at Kaine from Intel. Endless list, guess this isn’t worth posting, lol. Locals, this weather is taking a toll on me, when will the rain stop?
By the time the talent show started, no one (teachers, students, office personnel, administrators, etc.) thought anything of the fact that Ky was not there. There had to be a reason for that.
I agree with your statement. I’m by the book, I have family members that are what I would call casual. I say “rules are rules” and I am told “they are guidelines.” People are different.
I do find it interesting the way the recent letter is worded, in that the focus could easily be on the 10-12 time frame that someone “shows up,” however there is good arguement out there that this is just the DA’s way of assuring no surprise witnesses. I am not sure why someone returning or showing up to the school after Ky left is significant unless it is someone who belonged there all along.
I think that the posters of Portland have it right. TH is into this deep and the most recent (12/27) move on her behalf says she has a lot to hide. I think Blink has been trying to say that there is someone else involved and we can’t keep focusing on TH to find this person. Question is, where to look?
_____________________________________________________________________
5.neighbor says:
December 28, 2010 at 3:03 pm
snip>
IMO the 8-10am open doors makes Ky absence fuzzy. While I would sign my child out when leaving before school started (8:45am), I can also imagine people not doing so and just shooting a “my child has a dr apt” email later.
As I sit waiting for my Alaska Airlines flight from San Diego back to Seattle I can’t help but think of you all and check in. I don’t post often but read for an hour every night for an hour before bed. Sitting directly in front of me is a nice looking family of 5. One of the children, a boy about 8-10 looks so much like Kyron its hard not to keep looking at him. I know it isn’t him, but know if DY were here she would fall apart. So sad. I think if SZ has excellent IT skills he/she visits here often.. Best to you all.
@ nate0419 says:
December 28, 2010 at 1:52 pm
What was the reason Kim Holm cancelled benefit/celebration for Cat…
@ enumclawrose says:
December 27, 2010 at 11:38 pm
…I’ve done some research on Villlarreals in past, asked same question about motorcycle accident, LOL.
See FB: Avery Villarreal Add as Friend
Villarreal spelled with both one R and two. Note Avery and Cameron FB pages with 2. Obit may have been a typo?
Pure speculation:
Had Kaine met an untimely MFH death, would it have appeared an accident?
Canceling Cat’s celebration…did C.V.’s glasses suddenly appear in family mailbox?
Who knows more about Kim, her friends, associations? There are Sky parents on list at soccer organization, as fellow Board members.
If media says Kim wasn’t at SF, then she was in fact on list, was there question as to when exactly Kim at school or SF, after 10:00AM? Did window of hours cause a change in her name to then be list status.
Was Kurtis at school early as was Ky? How did he get to school?
@ Blink,
Do you know in which sequence SF exhibit photos were taken? Was it Ky with exhibit, then Kurtis with his exhibit and then Ky exhibit alone? Were TH photo media chips kept as evidence; did TH snap them all?
I always wonder what puts a Blink comment into longer moderation.
jan says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 28, 2010 at 1:19 am
…MM similarity with FB DL
jan says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 28, 2010 at 2:35 am
…Envelope in left pocket
Can’t stop wondering about the tweeted guy.
I speculate that he could be left-handed.
Further to possible “note in left pocket” theory, it seems it would be awkward to do this with left hand, unless one were left-handed. If he received with left hand, then left hand would dominate. Putting something in left breast coat pocket would be easier with right hand, unless right hand is non-dominant.
Speculation for the hopper.
Jackie Bauer
says:
December 28, 2010 at 2:47 pm
@Dee, re: your statement: “As I think more on Kyron, I feel that he might have been lured into a service closet, knocked out and removed in a trash bag within a trash can, rolled up to a truck and unloaded into it, then driven off. I just can’t figure out any other way that he could have left without being seen by anyone.”
Plausible, but Blink says that he was seen leaving with someone else. And she is firmly convinced that the evidence/witness is solid.
_______________________________________________________________
Now I’m really confused. I thought there was absolutely no one who saw Kyron leave the school. I know that he may have been seen outside the school next to a white truck with someone other than Terri and I know that Blink says there is a profile of a Suspect Zero but I did not read anywhere that Kyron was seen leaving with someone and I have gone back ten pages in this blog. I am sorry if I missed this crucial piece of evidence. Could someone please tell me where I might find this?
@puzzled says:
December 28, 2010 at 10:41 am
I have seen non-public images of some of the kids at the SF that day, and from the back, I saw at least 3 that could have been mistaken for Kyron.
B
~~~
fwiw … wonder what the chances are that there are other children with a similiar profile as KyH and could have equally been a target for abduction?
———————————————
Hmmmm…SZ is “faceless and nameless”, and, I’m assuming at this point the credible witness who saw Ky by the truck is still faceless and nameless”. And..from Blink: “I have seen non-public images of some of the kids at the SF that day, and from the back, I saw at least 3 that could have been mistaken for Kyron.” B
So, are we back to square one with TH? oye vay!!:)
The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print.
B
Blink, do you mean by this that the individual will have advanced encryption skills to hide any connection with online child porn? Or, do you mean that this person has no personal data available about himself electronically– i.e no email accounts, credit card accounts, SS#s, employment records, driver’s license, etc? If that is the case, then this person is able to enter data bases (motor vehicles) and delete information, or has falsified id’s. Can you tell us in what respect “superior IT”?
The body of a burned child has been found in Houston and there is speculation that it could be the body of Jonathan Foster who has been missing since Christmas eve. It was burned somewhere else and then dumped at that location. The only problem is that the body is only 3 feet tall and Jonathan was nearly 5 feet tall. Wondering if this could be the body of another kidnapped child.
This makes me ill.
I am not in a position to cover that case, but honestly, I feel it will wrap up in 36 hours or less.
1. How many gifts were purchased and wrapped for this child under the tree?
2. Why is a 12 year old, minutes from his home, with a babysitter rather than his stepfather on Christmas Eve?
Y’all know where I am going with this.
B
Without footprints IT
you need to be able get info from people
around Kyron and that is a problem
Blink talks of the bowling great idea to find out more
I want to know about the bus stop in the mornings
and the gym
anytime Kyron was not with his parents
who was around that took an interest in him
so how can we find out
seems hopeless almost
@Dee: re: this:
“Now I’m really confused. I thought there was absolutely no one who saw Kyron leave the school. I know that he may have been seen outside the school next to a white truck with someone other than Terri and I know that Blink says there is a profile of a Suspect Zero but I did not read anywhere that Kyron was seen leaving with someone and I have gone back ten pages in this blog. I am sorry if I missed this crucial piece of evidence. Could someone please tell me where I might find this?”
I understand the confusion! You may have to go back more than 10 pages but if you piece together the questions re: Kyron leaving the school, and Kyron being seen with SZ and a witness, and you read Blink’s responses in bold, you’ll Blink clearly states that she has definitive proof that Kyron left the school with someone other than TH. She even states it again above, when I asked if someone could’ve seen one of the children from behind and just thought it was Kyron, and she said no, she is “firmly convinced” they saw Kyron. And even if (horrible thought), the witness saw someone put Kyron into a plastic bag and be rolled out, there would still be a witness to how Kyron left the school.
A number of posts back, I even made a list of the questions I had re: this, and I’m trying to answer them one at a time.
43.puzzled says:
December 28, 2010 at 11:50 am
at the risk of starting a run of the bulls … why is it when someone bumps up against “Kaine” they immediately back off with “I’m assuming Kaine has no involvement”?
Statistically speaking, parent involvement is more likely than stranger abduction. Since the “obvious” parent has been under a continual microscope and no direct link (that we know of) can be made to the abductor, why are we not suppose to look at the other parent? At least to the extent of lifestyle involving both parents. Why is it ok to desecrate the step-mom because of the inconsistencies in her story and not look at the dad and his?
OK … I’m running
************************************
Right behind ya Puzzled, thank you for speaking my mind.
@beejay says: December 27, 2010 at 9:30 pm
“Interpreting facts is hard, but here’s my take–as of today: I don’t see the changing presentation as an intentional deception. I believe he was trying to create an image of a “good” and involved father. One who put his daughter’s shoes on and strolled to the bus stop routinely as a family. Something we might expect him to do several afternoons a week (when he worked at home).
“…It’s just the kind of detail that makes me look critically at other statements someone makes.”
beejay says: December 27, 2010 at 9:33 pm
http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Raw-Kyrons-parents-talk-about-bus-stop-97168909.html
@enumclawrose says: December 27, 2010 at 3:51 pm
“Beejay, It would make a HUGE difference to me. I don’t consider meeting the bus on the day your son disappears, a detail. BTW, what other details was he wrong about?”
@puzzled says: December 28, 2010 at 10:28 am
“It’s HUGE to me also. The problem I’ve had all along is the story line we’ve been spoon fed. I may not be the brightest bulb in the lamp, but there’s still a 40 watt bulb that’s on and provides enough light for even me to see that things do not add up.
“The mystery is not longer just about who took Kyh and where he might be … it’s now clear that the investigation is not all it should have been. Cover up?”
Kaine Horman’s story about what went on with the bus changed after he filed for divorce. Mr. Horman’s later story about what went on at the bus stop is far different from what he told KGW in June, and key details were changed, with the later post-divorce version portraying Terri Horman as a detached, uninvolved parent and step-parent.
Prior to filing for divorce, Mr. Horman claimed in an interview with KGW that he walked with Terri Horman and their daughter to the bus stop to pick up Kyron, at which time they learned from the bus driver that Kyron was not on the bus. In the June 25 interview, Mr. Horman asserts that he had turned to walk up the driveway when he heard Ms. Horman talking to the bus driver, who in turn called the school and said, “He hasn’t been there all day.”
In early July and following his divorce filing, Mr. Horman discussed the bus story in a joint statement with Desiree Young in response to written questions. In that version, Mr. Horman claimed that he arrived home from work at 2 pm and found Ms. Horman “already in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived.” Mr. Horman asserted that he put on Kiara’s shoes and walked her to the bus stop while Ms. Horman lagged behind, which is different from his prior statement in which he claimed to have joined Ms. Horman and Kiara in walking to the bus stop.
Later, in a September 16 interview with Oprah Winfrey, Mr. Horman claimed that he, Kiara, and Ms. Horman met the bus together, and that as soon as the bus driver called the school and told them that Kyron wasn’t at school, he grabbed Kiara and ran back to the house to get the car while Ms. Horman lagged behind. That story also differed from the prior two versions in that Mr. Horman claimed they met the bus together. In the Oprah version of the bus story, Mr. Horman omits any mention of Ms. Horman talking to the bus driver or the bus driver responding to Ms. Horman by calling the school.
In his October 25, 2010, affidavit to the court, Mr. Horman claimed that Ms. Horman was a disinterested, uninvolved parent who spent an excessive amount of time on the computer, and whose “alcoholism, coupled with depression issues, significantly affected the manner in which she cared for Kiara and greatly affected Kiara’s attachment to her.” Affidavit of Petitioner at page 3, lines 6-7. “When Respondent was home, she spent an unhealthy amount of her time on the computer on internet sites for social networking such as facebook, body building sites, or on e-mail. She spent more time on the computer than caring for the children.” Affidavit of Petitioner at page 3, lines 19-21.
The following is a transcript of Kaine Horman’s video interview with KGW.
“Raw: Kaine also was at bus stop to pick up Kyron”
by KGW.com
Posted on June 25, 2010 at 9:47 AM
Updated Friday, Jun 25 at 10:02 AM
Kaine Horman: “I was there, yeah. I was, I was home from, uh, work. I was work from, working from home in the afternoon, um, and walked down with her to the bus with our daughter to go pick him up. So I was there when the bus driver said he hadn’t been on, he wasn’t on the bus, and, uh, started to walk back up to, figured he’s probably just waiting at school for us. It was Friday after the big day. We, you know, we were talking about meeting at ice cream after school. It was kind of a special treat for the science fair. Um, so we just figured well, he might have just waited up after school, because he thought we were going to pick him up. So we started to walk up, and I heard her, uh, talking to the bus driver, and the bus driver called to the school. And I just heard the comment of ‘he hasn’t been there all day,’ and then we started to run. ”
Reporter: “Physically run?”
Kaine Horman: “Yeah, yeah. Up to the car to come up to school and see what was going on. So, yeah, I was, I was there when the initial news came.”
Reporter: “And did you immediately think something is definitely wrong here? Or did you figure maybe he went with a friend, or?”
Kaine Horman: [cross talk, interrupting] “I, I , yeah. No idea. Just panic of not knowing where he was.”
In an interview with Oprah Winfrey that aired on September 16, 2010, Mr. Horman reported that he did not see Ms. Horman’s reaction to the news that Kyron was not on the bus, because she was lagging behind Mr. Horman:
Oprah Winfrey: “And how was she when the discovery is revealed that he’s not on that school bus?”
Kaine Horman: “I didn’t first-hand see her response, her emotional response. The three of us — my daughter, Terri and I — had gone down to the bus that day to pick him up, and as soon as the bus driver called up to the school and they had said that he hadn’t been at school for the day, I immediately grabbed my daughter and we turned and started basically running back up to the house to the car to get to the school. And she was behind so I didn’t actually see her face.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/live_blog_kaine_horman_and_des.html
Excerpted from “Kyron’s mom pleads with Terri to do ‘what is right’”
Story Published: Jul 6, 2010 at 6:15 PM PDT
Story Updated: Jul 7, 2010 at 7:26 AM PDT
Reporters: “Trying to clear up so many reports that have been out there: ‘Was Kaine waiting at the bus stop for Kyron to get off of the school bus?’”
Kaine Horman: “Yes I was. I walked Kiara down to the bus stop about 3:35 with Terri following close after we left. We all arrived down at the bus stop together and waited as the bus came to the stop.”
[Reporters]: “Was Kaine working from home the day Kyron went missing? If so, when did Terri get home from the school?”
[Kaine Horman]: “No, I was in the office that day until about 1:45 and arrived back home a little after 2pm. Terri was already in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived. I kissed Kiara, grabbed some food, and worked from my home office until about 3:30 at which time I put shoes on Kiara and we started walking down toward the bus stop.”
[Reporters]: “Was Kyron supposed to be out of school the following Friday for a doctor’s appt.?”
[Kaine Horman]: “There was some discussion about the appointment but it was unknown exactly when the appointment was scheduled so we cannot comment for certain.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/97904344.html
See also “Kyron’s Parents Field Questions By E-mail”
POSTED: 9:56 pm PDT July 5, 2010
UPDATED: 6:26 am PDT July 6, 2010
http://www.kptv.com/news/24151901/detail.html
From Headline News on July 9, 2010 (excerpt of Natisha Lance’s interview of Kaine Horman):
Natisha Lance: You said Terri was home. What was her demeanor?
Kaine Horman: Working on her laptop when i got home. Nothing out of the ordinary.
Natisha Lance: Had on the same clothes as earlier in the day?
Kaine Horman: Yes. Still had gym clothes on.
Natisha Lance: You went to the bus stop, waiting, child after child getting off the bus.
Kaine Horman: Only one child gets off at our stop and that’s Kyron.
Natisha Lance: What did you think when he wasn’t there?
Kaine Horman: The bus driver looked at us and told us he wasn’t on the bus today. We figured he must be waiting for us at school. We talked a special treat for the science fair and his project and everything else, thought maybe he’s waiting up at the school. So she called the school on her cell phone. That’s when we found out he hadn’t been there all day. That’s how it all began.
http://www.livedash.com/transcript/hln_news/5100/HLN/Friday_July_9_2010/250687/
It is not clear who Kaine references as “she” in the sentence, “So she called the school on her cell phone.” Unless the bus driver was male, the “she” would be Terri Horman. If he is saying Ms. Horman called the school, this would be a major difference from his prior interview when he claimed the bus driver called the school.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
says: December 28, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Jackie Bauer
“Here’s a link to Seamus ORiley blog where he does some statement analysis that includes the bus walk/cat. His take on the “shoe” incident is different:
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/07/lying-and-murder-theme-continued-in.html
“For those who haven’t read Seamus before, he nailed the family problems and TH frustration with Kyron long before we’d ever heard a peep about it. I didn’t believe at the time that he could be right, but that changed.”
The Seamus O’Reiley analysis is of Kaine Horman’s statements post-filing for dissolution, and of his statements to Natisha Lance of Headline News. Seamus O’Reiley did not consider the pre-divorce filing statement given by Kaine Horman in his interview with KGW.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
neighbor says: December 28, 2010 at 3:03 pm
“Kim is often present at school. Judging from some of her older kids FB profiles, she probably has her hands full at home. IMO the 8-10am open doors makes Ky absence fuzzy. While I would sign my child out when leaving before school started (8:45am), I can also imagine people not doing so and just shooting a “my child has a dr apt” email later.”
Blink says:
“This has no bearing on the case, but I did find it odd that Kyron’s BF that starts with K went bowling for the first time this year, and he is older than Kyron. B”
I thought Kyron’s classmate with the initials TP was his best friend? Or does Kyron have two best friends?
See “Classmate: ‘I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back’”
http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html
Kurtis is his BF, not TP
B
43.puzzled says:
December 28, 2010 at 11:50 am
Statistically speaking, parent involvement is more likely than stranger abduction. Since the “obvious” parent has been under a continual microscope and no direct link (that we know of) can be made to the abductor, why are we not suppose to look at the other parent? At least to the extent of lifestyle involving both parents. Why is it ok to desecrate the step-mom because of the inconsistencies in her story and not look at the dad and his?
45.beejay says:
December 28, 2010 at 12:03 pm
As to your other thoughts about the investigation and coverups and such, IDK. I believe that Kaine has tried to control the information flow, as well as to present things in the best light for him–as ANYONE normally would. He has other concerns here, one being his entire financial future; custody of Kiara. What divorcing parents don’t fight with each other through their children? (A few saints aside, they all do.) Let’s remember to TRY to tease apart these various issues. Very complicated. Lots of “data” and very little “info”.
***********************************
Which is relevant to the fact its possible that TH’s thumbs up moment
when the truck was towed may have been her way of providing an image , Similar to what Kaine is doing.
We tend to forget that the only person we hear from it him, and we take his words as truth, when we should be looking and hearing them with an open mind. I have no doubt that if TH were talking we would all be comparing stories, vs, believing everything one sided as the truth.
Just for clarification,
I am NOT camp TH or Kaine,
Just open for Kyron.
Blink says:
“Kurtis is his BF, not TP[.] B”
Got it.
Back to your prior statement, “This has no bearing on the case, but I did find it odd that Kyron’s BF that starts with K went bowling for the first time this year, and he is older than Kyron. B”
I’m not sure what the “normal” age is for kids to start bowling.
Kurtis is 9, if I recall correctly, and one year older than Kyron.
Is bowling a normal activity for most kids, or is your comment directed at the fact that Kurtis is Kyron’s best friend, yet they had never gone bowling together?
Personally, I went bowling for the first time when I was 23. It wasn’t my thing. The idea of rented shoes freaks me out.
My collegiate activities aside, as a parent, there are limited birthday party settings for young children.
As I would rather play dunk tank in my septic than have one at a Chuckie Cheese, there are only so many options, bowling being one of them.
That said, your point is well taken if it is a logistics thing.
A window to my mania, I carry kiwi shoe blast deoderizor for such an occasion.
Blinkette gave me away this year when I would not allow her soccer cleats in the car.
B
“It is not clear who Kaine references as “she” in the sentence, “So she called the school on her cell phone.” Unless the bus driver was male, the “she” would be Terri Horman. If he is saying Ms. Horman called the school, this would be a major difference from his prior interview when he claimed the bus driver called the school.”
I think this s/b “if the bus driver was male, the “she” would be Terri Horman. If the bus driver was female, then it could be either Terri Horman or the bus driver.
12.lyla says:
December 28, 2010 at 4:42 pm
So, are we back to square one with TH? oye vay!!:)
~~~
oye vay is right. I’m playing Clue and y’all are playing … well, I don’t know what, but something else!
Jackie Bauer
says:
December 28, 2010 at 6:03 pm
“It is not clear who Kaine references as “she” in the sentence, “So she called the school on her cell phone.”
———————————-
Kaine says here, “…and as soon as the bus driver called up to the school and they had said that he hadn’t been at school for the day.”
So I am assuming the bus driver is a she.
Kimberly says:
December 28, 2010 at 5:33 pm
@43.puzzled says:
December 28, 2010 at 11:50 am
at the risk of starting a run of the bulls … why is it when someone bumps up against “Kaine” they immediately back off with “I’m assuming Kaine has no involvement”?
Statistically speaking, parent involvement is more likely than stranger abduction. Since the “obvious” parent has been under a continual microscope and no direct link (that we know of) can be made to the abductor, why are we not suppose to look at the other parent? At least to the extent of lifestyle involving both parents. Why is it ok to desecrate the step-mom because of the inconsistencies in her story and not look at the dad and his?
OK … I’m running
************************************
Right behind ya Puzzled, thank you for speaking my mind.
—————————————————
Yes Maam…don’t run off too far…there’s more to come, I’m sure of it.
Blink, totally OT, but I’ve been reading about the “feet” here in the NW. LE is keeping it casual, lots of reasons feet might just come washing up on beaches, but there have been seven in BC and two in WA state. What seems a little odd is that, with one exception, they seem to be mostly right feet (only one left from what I’ve read). Also, one in BC appeared to have been severed, not just naturally separated at the joint. I don’t know if you can say or not, but I’m interested in your opinion if you can voice it. Do you think these are just random feet, or do you think there’s something more sinister at play here?
Not random.
B
Lea Conner says:
December 28, 2010 at 5:33 pm
“…Kaine Horman: Only one child gets off at our stop and that’s Kyron.”
*****
Why did the bus driver even stop if no Ky aboard?
Did the driver only stop because it’s on the route and he saw family group waiting?
Whoops. Forgot to do the @Lea in my post above.
@Nancy: re: your post below, my post was in reference to Lea’s statement above.
Lea wrote: “It is not clear who Kaine references as “she” in the sentence, “So she called the school on her cell phone.” Unless the bus driver was male, the “she” would be Terri Horman. If he is saying Ms. Horman called the school, this would be a major difference from his prior interview when he claimed the bus driver called the school.”
I then commented that I think this s/b corrected to say: “if the bus driver was male, the “she” would be Terri Horman.” IF the bus driver was female, then it could be either Terri Horman or the bus driver.”
And of course, that would be a big change, if Kaine’s story changed that much, but if the bus driver was a “she”, then it’s just confusing and this is confusing enough already. And there’s more to come on this, I’m just certain. But alas, I’m leaving for the coast this week, and I will miss all the fun.
Nancy says:
December 28, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Jackie Bauer says:
December 28, 2010 at 6:03 pm
“It is not clear who Kaine references as “she” in the sentence, “So she called the school on her cell phone.”
———————————-
Kaine says here, “…and as soon as the bus driver called up to the school and they had said that he hadn’t been at school for the day.”
So I am assuming the bus driver is a she.
Small world. Terri’s birth place (Grass Valley, CA) and Cat Villareal’s (Auburn, CA) are not far from each other.
Blink,
Thank you for making this a “teaching” site.
Several comments are in still moderation, others around same time before/after are up; so I think, “huh?”
Help me understand if I could be hitting on something sensitive, long-shot, left-field or pushing the envelope.
Direction welcomed.
Keep up the good work you do.
Lea Conner says:
December 28, 2010 at 5:33 pm
One of Kaines complaints about TH was that she would have multiple versions about the same events which kept changing.
methinks we may have a case of
“The pot calling the kettle black”
That’s what my Grandmother would have said anyway.
Testing…testing…my posts keep disappearing in space.
I must be under siege!
Lol, they are up unless you are openly accusing someone.
B
Post privately to me, let me sift through it, we will go from there.
B
Puzzled, I will put this out there again FWIW. Maybe not a cover up, but a sort of kid gloves approach. Could this all revolve around a parent and a minor? Could that explain the way this is all being handled? The letter specifically requests for any information including minor children. I could see a possibility with the “man chaperon and two girls” falling into this inquiry, of which there was no man with two minor children on the list.
____________________________________________
@puzzled says: December 28, 2010 at 10:28 am
“It’s HUGE to me also. The problem I’ve had all along is the story line we’ve been spoon fed. I may not be the brightest bulb in the lamp, but there’s still a 40 watt bulb that’s on and provides enough light for even me to see that things do not add up.
“The mystery is not longer just about who took Kyh and where he might be … it’s now clear that the investigation is not all it should have been. Cover up?”
“Kaine Horman: Only one child gets off at our stop and that’s Kyron.”
Curious. If there was no Kyron on the bus that day, why did the bus driver go by the Hormans’ house? I am assuming it went up Sheltered Nook Rd.? I.e., it sounds like the Horman home is not far from the bus stop.
Trivia FWIW
My son’s 8th B’Day was at a bowling alley and yes Blink, I agree about the venue with the “lice covered balls.” Gag. Skating, bowling, amusement parks, swim parks, lazer tag, rock climbing venues, we hit them all.
Most of the bus drivers in our are are female.
I have a confession to make-
I sssssoooo hate that place, but when my blinkettes were little and invited to a b-day party to a preschool friend they absolutely wanted to go to…
I told them on the way there that they found dirty diapers and rancid bottles in the ball pit and the tube climby thing.
We spent the mandatory 2 hours in the game area, lol.
Sorry, I realize it is my issue..
B
Something led to life exploding in the faces of the Horman and Young households on June 4, and I’ll be damned if I’ll shut off any theories merely because one of them might not reflect well on “the good guys” in the story.
I’m going to point out that while TH has been raked over the coals by the public for behavior that at times has been very much over-analyzed, with other behavior clearly stamped with a big “Oh, ICK,” I have not seen any indication that friends, associates, coworkers, acquaintances and other who know KH, DY, or TY or their older children are in any way issues considered. From the beginning of this case’s evolution into a criminal investigation, TH was the suspect — called one publicly by LE or not.
I will not be surprised at all if TH is arrested at some point and shown to be involved in Kyron’s disappearance.
However, as another person here noted, whenever KH is mentioned, some have already crowned him a saint.
I have to suggest that KH know a lot of people just like his wife does.
In their community and in their lives a couple, it is not impossible that KH made an enemy somewhere.
This is not about Team KH or Team TH. It’s about finding Kyron, and I personally do not care who turns out to be the culprit behind this boy’s disappearance.
I would suggest that as a lot of the public has felt free to analyze everything TH has written or done, as if her very breathing is suspicious, that this has not been done to any one else.
Why?
If TH is labeled selfish and manipulating, a greedy sex-obsessed women who is sacrificing her stepson’s welfare for her freedom, fine, I get that. Certainly she’d at least a whacko in her personal life.
BUT….at the same time, why is KH’s strange personality (I think he’s strange — I know a LOT of strange people) literally never studied or viewed in the same way as TH’s?
Why, for example, does no one suggest that KH has sacrified the effort to find his own son in favor of maintaining his privacy?
Basically, I believe that a parent who needs to find his or her child will sacrifice his/her own reputation and privacy in order to do so.
Anything hinky about TH has been thrown out there over and over again.
Why has KH been spared this? This is about Kyron’s location at this point, and does KH know anybody, for any relationship in his past or current life, that would hint at a vampire? Someone out to get him, not his wife?
My final comment — if a person wanted to send a message to you by kidnapping your child, that person probably opts to kidnap your child. Not your stepchild.
KH is more hurt by losing Kyron than is TH.
I don’t care who did it — I just want Kyron found and the person who took him hung up by their heels in a commercial meat closet and allowed to slowly freezer burn. And that person might be in KH’s social circle, not TH’s.
BTW, I tried to always have at least one adult per two children. We had eyes akimbo on those kids. Most of the parents returned in kind.
“…Meanwhile, Kyron has been missing since June 4th and these ladies (TH and DS)have lawyered up instead of assisting in finding him, if they aren’t involved what’s with all the secret cell phones? Who really thinks the Grand Jury is working side by side with the Sheriff’s Office on a “witch hunt” just for fun? Are they serious? Terri tried to have Kaine murdered for Chrissakes, flags have popped up all over the place in this case and we can only hope that they are mounting an investigation that leads to an arrest.
For the Terri defenders I would say take a good close look at the facts presented so far and try to look at them logically. Terri has not done a single thing to assist in this investigation, she has only hindered it, then hired a high priced lawyer so she can remain clammed up. ” this was clipped from Who is Terri Horman blog. and I agree. Why aren’t these women out searching for Kyron if they had nothing to do with his abduction? Why lawyer up to clam up? One only does that if there is something to hide in my opinion. God Bless this little boy I pray every day he is found.
After reading all of the recent comments here, I am left with a vague and uneasy feeling that both TH & KH may have opened the door for the vampire. Perhaps one of them was more willing to entertain such a guest, but the other went along with it–guilty by association.
I am still thinking about the photo of BOTH Terri and Kaine leaving the gym together just days after Kyrons disapearance. I am still wondering about the letter Kyrons father wrote to Intel that seemed so odd. I wonder about that facebook account. How many photos and “notes” are put there just for the reason to direct investigators or others into a direction. What other clues lie there in the postings leading up to his disappearance. This staged exit for Kyron was scripted. Everything was played out exactly how it was planned. Except for Kyron running into his friend on the way out the door. There must be more mistakes.
I thought the main reason TH used Kaine’s truck on the day Kyron went missing was so she could bring his science fair project home (or pick it up) which she obviously didn’t do. So, what was her reason for not picking it up or bringing it home?
Did the Horman’s have Life Insurance on Ky or Kiara?
Regarding….
@puzzled says: December 28, 2010 at 10:28 am
“It’s HUGE to me also. The problem I’ve had all along is the story line we’ve been spoon fed. I may not be the brightest bulb in the lamp, but there’s still a 40 watt bulb that’s on and provides enough light for even me to see that things do not add up.
“The mystery is not longer just about who took Kyh and where he might be … it’s now clear that the investigation is not all it should have been. Cover up?”
****************
****************
I think kaine has worked to cover some things up, as others have suggested. Maybe nothing nefarious, but from the beginning he stressed that in the effort to keep the focus on Ky, please stay away from their personal lives.
I thought part of the reason Kaine kicked the 2 newspapers out of one of their early news conferences was because the papers were digging too close to personal details; not to his liking.
I too believe in the beginning he was painting a portrait of a very happy family, staying away from details that would expose the truth……not really lying, but not being fully forthcoming. The details he left out could be very interesting now.
Kaine’s circle of friends, colleagues, etc, etc, would mostly be known to Terri, and she may have been in cahoots with someone, another poster has mentioned Kaine could easily have an enemy or two…….Not saying that that someone could be a SZ, but, once or twice removed….
ALOT of normal families have dysfunctions, just imagine what kind of skeletons remain in the Horman closets?
25.Lea Conner says:
December 28, 2010 at 5:47 pm
Is bowling a normal activity for most kids, or is your comment directed at the fact that Kurtis is Kyron’s best friend, yet they had never gone bowling together?
**********
Or is your comment because bowling was not the original activity that was planned for that outing?
lea says…….
In early July and following his divorce filing, Mr. Horman discussed the bus story in a joint statement with Desiree Young in response to written questions. In that version, Mr. Horman claimed that he arrived home from work at 2 pm and found Ms. Horman “already in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived.” Mr. Horman asserted that he put on Kiara’s shoes and walked her to the bus stop while Ms. Horman lagged behind, which is different from his prior statement in which he claimed to have joined Ms. Horman and Kiara in walking to the bus stop.
****************
OKAY, one thing that has always stuck out to me, in the above, is where Kaine states that Teri was “ALREADY” in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived.
If my husband last saw me in the early morning, he knew I was going out, driving child to school, possibly working out, ………fast forward to that afternoon, and if my husband was asked about me, I do not think the normal response would be that I was “already” in the house…
It almost sounds to me that Kaine knew that Teri was out and about shortly before he got home. My own opinion, moo