Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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@26. Justice/iodized. Please don’t read this as critical of Kyron or el ed teachers in general.
My son’s 2nd, 3rd gr teachers would have been totally unquestioning (sorry) on a busy, chaotic morning/day of any adhd or add boy ( not just him but there were about 7 boys in class of the same ilk) not there if they could write any vague reason in their minds. With a busy day, no reason necessary for ms porter’s “take”.
@22. Conner, whose blow by blow of pre vs post divorce filings I admittedly havent thoroughly read, and @ 45.beejay’s comment — what divorcing parents don’t fight through their children?
One thing which calls into question Kaine’s judgment for me, and also I will never see his attorney as a child advocate due to, and what I feel is off kilter for LE even with Some evidence, is the entire preclusion of supervised visitation by Kiara with mother.
I have read and re-read the various versions of Kaine’s bus-stop accounts the day of June 4. Sorry, I see no inconsistencies. Each account is not verbatim, some have more details than others, but each account says the same thing:
Kaine came home from work around 2:00 and TH and Kiara were there.
All three walked to the bus stop. Even in the version of TH lagging behind, Kaine says she caught up.
They were all at the bus stop together when the bus driver stopped and told them Kyron was not on the bus.
Kaine thought Kyron was still at school, mistakingly thinking he was going to be picked up due to previous talk of getting treats after school.
Kaine started up the drive in order to pick Kyron up from school.
TH continued talking with the bus driver, who called the school and Kaine heard the bus driver say Kyron had not been there all day.
Kaine picked up Kiara and ran to the house.
Because TH had stayed to talk to the bus driver, she was behind him and Kaine did not see her initial reaction.
Last statement should read: Kaine (and Kitty) started up the drive in order to pick Kyron up from school.
“Blinking” has officially become a verb in our house. I’m the only one that does it but my guy knows when he wants some space he says “Blink”. LOL!
That works at my house too!
B
Jackie Bauer
says:
December 28, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Whoops. Forgot to do the @Lea in my post above.
@Nancy: re: your post below, my post was in reference to Lea’s statement above.
——————————–
Thanks for the clarification Jackie.
….Whether because of a learning disability or because of poor education, family situations or immigration, illiterate adults struggle to hold jobs, use computers, pay bills and accomplish other tasks that skilled readers take for granted.
…..Most illiterate adults say they primarily rely on context clues and a photographic memory.
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/washington/news.aspx?id=138333
Blink has said with conviction that she believes this is a (sexually motivated crime). We have seen on social medias that people living in very close proximity to the H home and to the school are involved in satanic worship which would lead one to wonder if they are involved in ritual abuse. I have always thought this is key in KyH’s disappearance. And now Blink states above that she believes the washing ashore of feet is (not random).
This would certainly explain Staton’s statement that they know things they wish they did not.
If KyH was truly wandering alot, using the bathroom facilities excessively and exhibiting other strange behavior, it could be a result of being subjected to RSA (ritual satanic abuse).
How open and obvious are people who involve themselves in this? We have seen that satan worshipers are bold enough to display their views on their social media sites. Where else and how much deeper would that trail take us? Does anyone know what the incidence is between actually worshiping satan and becoming involved in the abuse?
“Unfortunately in life, often it’s not the strangers who we have to fear, it’s the people we know that probably pose the most danger to us, and that can be friends, neighbors, whatever.” ––Sgt. Brian Harris, Houston PD
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7356276.html
Since today’s comments have included several suggesting Kaine may be involved in Kyron’s disappearance, I thought I would share a couple of interesting comments on SM today regarding criticism of Kaine for (early on) asking his Intel co-workers not to speak to the media and for kicking out the Oregonian and Willamette Week at an early presser.
************
Comment 1:
“about the Williamette and Oregonian being excluded from the ONE presser…
they were excluded because they already had information on the MFH Plot…they were asked by LE as in LAW ENFORCEMENT and the FAMILY OF KYRON to NOT break the story so that they could do their investigation THEIR WAY…you know their JOB? and those 2 outlets REFUSED TO MAKE THAT AGREEMENT…they were turned away for “not being team players” because their scoop was more important to them than Kyron… the Oregonian withheld the story and went back and apologized and were included in EVERY OTHER presser after that…the Williamette went forward and posted their scoop…which forced LE’s hand putting them in a now or never situation with the sting that they werent ready to pull off…just to beat the press…for one I believe that they wanted some time to pass so that TH could get more comfortable before they did it…so that they would have a chance at it…but no, thats not how it happened and we all saw how that DIDNT work out…
Kaine does NOT have the power everyone wants to pretend that they think he does…and there are reasons that arent always so clear (even if they should be) for some things and they arent trite…
To set the record straight on the situation with Kaine and the media in this one situation.”
*************
Comment 2: “Don’t know anyone involved in this or any case.. But I do work at a mid-sized software company and have received emails similar to Kaine’s email to his fellow employees. A newly hired person went missing and then was found days later (accidental drowning) and we were told not to speak to media. In our company its stressed that any media inquiries go through the proper channels. Since they work at a well-known company with him, anything they say could be misrepresented/misconstrued as an opinion of Intel.
Not speaking to the media is not impeding this case.. it doesn’t mean they can’t (or haven’t) spoken to the police. He states its an email in response to inquiries about what can be done to help and also gives information/description and asks to spread the word.”
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9159.280
Blink says:
“My collegiate activities aside, as a parent, there are limited birthday party settings for young children. As I would rather play dunk tank in my septic than have one at a Chuckie Cheese, there are only so many options, bowling being one of them. That said, your point is well taken if it is a logistics thing. A window to my mania, I carry kiwi shoe blast deoderizor for such an occasion. Blinkette gave me away this year when I would not allow her soccer cleats in the car. B”
It’s not a logistical problem. There are several bowling alleys that aren’t too far from that part of Portland. The photos I see of Kyron and family out and about are with other family members, not friends. There are friends at the house, but not the children’s friends at the venues outside the house. This did not surprise me that much, given that Terri Horman is good at planning parties.
Mere mortals, such as myself, leave that sort of thing to the experts.
As far as Chuck E. Cheese goes: The Wall Street Journal had a splashy page A1 feature on “Food, Fun and Fights at Chuck E. Cheese” in December 2008. The article detailed the problems with the grownups who do more than play Whack-a-Mole at Chuck E. Cheese.
http://blogs.wsj.com/juggle/2008/12/09/food-fun-and-fights-at-chuck-e-cheeses/tab/print/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122878081364889613.html#printMode
I wasn’t too surprised at the article, given that some parents use Chuck E. Cheese as a venue for residential exchanges. What better way to greet your ex than soused up with booze, and working on a migraine from all the noise, lights, and crowds?
~~~~~~
Blink says: December 28, 2010 at 3:06 pm
“The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print. B”
Falstaff says: December 28, 2010 at 3:50 pm
“I saw something to this effect posted here before; ‘that the school district the Hormans’ live in is full of PHD tech people.’ I agree. I would say a huge concentration of ‘geeks,’ some children are even are very good with this kind of thing. My daughter home from college is showing me all kinds of stuff she has learned from other’s in the dorms. OMG, I was was shocked. I don’t think she would have to look far for a person like this.”
And you thought pot, booze, and premarital sex were your biggest worries when your child moved away to college?
I believe that MANY of Kaine and Desiree’s statements were “prepped” by LE – they were given parameters, items to avoid and items to emphasize… I believe that this is why some of the accounts seem a bit disjointed, or there are inconsistencies on minor points, or vague about some things because LE asked them not to be specific..ie the doctor’s appointment, whether Kitty was a the school, etc.
I think that Desiree had a more difficult time with this than Kaine did – she was more likely to “react” to a question, and he was more likely to filter the question through the specific guidelines that LE had given them. When all comes out, I believe we will find that LE direction was at the heart of most of what has been disclosed up to this point, and that Kaine and Desiree did their best to follow those guidelines. I think we will be able to re-review a lot of what has been disclosed in light of specific LE information, and understand why it didn’t feel genuine or coherent. They (Kaine and Desiree) have been put in a very difficult position – advocating for their child, and trying to elicit specific responses from those involved. JMO, of course.
Bad news…LE believes the badly burned child’s body found in Houston may be Jonathan Foster, 12, who has been missing since Christmas Eve. Turns out his mom lied about him being with a babysitter…he was all alone at home on the afternoon of Christmas eve. How incredibly sad. She and Jonathan had just moved into an apartment by themselves after some problems with the stepdad. I guess we can figure out where this is going. It is beyond hearbreaking that someone could do this to a young boy on Christmas. God bless his soul.
Sadly, I am not surprised and emailed the blinktank the stepdad was involved. Jonathan and his family are in our thoughts and prayers.
B
@lyla #46 thats MY question too! did anyone just recently take out insurance policies out on Kyron, Kaine, Kiara? Great question
@whoever
I am glad we are reveiwing Kaine
I don’t want to be mean but just looking at the things he has
said one more time can’t hurt
he is not a Saint in fact I see alot of common traits between Terri and Kaine
Pace says:
December 28, 2010 at 11:00 pm
When all comes out, I believe we will find that LE direction was at the heart of most of what has been disclosed up to this point, and that Kaine and Desiree did their best to follow those guidelines
———————————
Agreed. In addition, regarding Kaine’s change in attitude toward TH pre- and post-divorce proceedings:
Who among us – after being informed by LE that our spouse was involved in harming/murdering our child and an attempt on our life – would maintain the same attitude toward him/her? Given these circumstances, who among us would not do whatever was in our power to ensure this monster would never be allowed to victimize another of our children?
I would have done exactly what he did, provided the evidence presented to him was verified.
B
Beejay, I know you are only reading for awhile, but the bus stop hypothetical has me thinking. I believe that the bus driver would stop if the family is standing near or at the bottom of the driveway. I am guessing the driver is a female. I wonder if Ky’s house (stop) is before TP’s house (stop). TP must have gotten off 1st or he would not have had to wait to hear of Ky’s disappearance later that evening from his Dad. (BTW, was he at his Dad’s house when he heard the news because it was Friday night and he spent weekends with his Dad? If not, why was Dad at Grandma’s?)
I took Blinks earlier remark to mean that the bus driver was the person to deliver the devastating news that Ky was missing and the first person to observe the reactions of the parents. The facial expressions and subsequent questions and movements must have been reviewed with the driver by LE over and over and over.
Because the bus driver was the first person to become involved with the family, I can see why KH might thank the bus drivers for their help. If the bus drivers were witnesses during the morning, as we have speculated, this could also explain that comment and why they were the subjects of such emphasis.
What the family did and how they got there seems fairly consistent in his accounts, however, when people are traumatized, they seem to re-live things EXACTLY how they remember they occurred. I would think that this horrible experience would play over and over in his head like a nightmare. What DID you find out, feet on the ground?
43.beejay says:
December 28, 2010 at 12:03 pm
I assume we all know/learn some things that we won’t be fully disclosing here, and that Blink would not publish if we did. And we all get annoyed with each other because of that. So, sometimes we’ll be talking “hypothetically”, yes?? It can stretch our thinking, at least.
@40.NelMel December 28, 2010 at 7:32 pm, says:
1. “This is not about Team KH or Team TH. It’s about finding Kyron, and I personally do not care who turns out to be the culprit behind this boy’s disappearance.”
2. “Basically, I believe that a parent who needs to find his or her child will sacrifice his/her own reputation and privacy in order to do so.”
3. “…if a person wanted to send a message to you by kidnapping your child, that person probably opts to kidnap your child. Not your stepchild.”
4. “I don’t care who did it — I just want Kyron found and the person who took him hung up by their heels in a commercial meat closet and allowed to slowly freezer burn.”
>>>>>> NelMel, excellent post! i mentally sign under those 4 points you have made, especially under the last one.
I think we will be able to re-review a lot of what has been disclosed in light of specific LE information, and understand why it didn’t feel genuine or coherent. They (Kaine and Desiree) have been put in a very difficult position – advocating for their child, and trying to elicit specific responses from those involved. JMO, of course.
——————————————————————————-
JMO But what if there is no huge plot to hide Kyron and there is no “those involved”. How can LE be still so sure that this was some kind of plot that involved a careful plan and multiple people, some with seemingly no motives. I would think it would be very rare (in fact I have never heard of it) for an entire group of people to plot to kidnap a child and then have all of them able to remain silent for this long. IMO I think that the perf that abducted Kyron is long gone and not affected by any staged media releases.
IMO If LE thinks they know who did this then why not just arrest the bad guy(s). Why would they not have enough evidence after 6 months and millions of dollars.
I also think it is unfair to use the parents as voices to the media for LE with staged speeches etc..
BTW I will quite willingly/gladly eat these words if it turns out LE knew all along who the perpetrators of this crime were, and could prove it.
Ah, insomnia.
Blink, do you believe that LE will make an arrest sometime in January?
I think if they are indeed at that phase, it will happen prior to February 1. It is my sincere belief they will need to recover Kyron to prosecute this case.
They do not have a shred of evidence Kyron is deceased, and they know he did not leave the school with TH.
Imo, they have a suspect zero they know he left with, but they either do not have his name, or they have no link to TH or both.
They have forever linked the mfh allegation with Kyron’s disappearance whether they are “in fact” linkable, so I am not sure they can just charge her in the mfh plot, separately, at this point.
Prosecutorially, this is a mess, and Kyron Horman, bless his soul, is still missing.
Houze will rupture any case against his client that is not bulletproof, and in doing so, he could very well effectively destroy the possibility of anyone ever paying for what I believe is a heinous crime against a child. Rod Underhill knows this better than anyone. He has Houze to thank for his job you may recall me writing about some time ago.
To those of you that want TH head on a stick, I say again, if she is responsible, so do I, but if they cannot prove that beyond a reasonable doubt, imo, they will not charge her with jaywalking.
Again I say, arrange a private, town hall style meeting with the parents and attendees that day, and get them talking to each other about their memories of that day, their exchanges, who saw what, what did their kids say, etc…
The reason they have not done this to date, imo, is because they know they will be asked this question:
What are the reasons you feel confident this is an isolated incident and there is no further danger to our children from the person or persons responsible for Kyron’s disappearance?
B
Not seeing that, no.
B
I know I sound like a broken record here, but I’m gonna say it again. “We” have no idea if TH has or has not talked to LE via her attorney, for all we know she could be singin’ like a bird in order to strike a deal…we will not know that until the time comes for somebody to be arrested.
Now having said the above, let me follow with this: in order to arrest somebody there has to be evidence of the crime, at this point I think LE needs a confession or a body. The MFH plot has to be proven, and with the failed sting I’m afraid any hope of an arrest for that went up in smoke with the sting. (Not to mention that to ME the whole MFH plot sounded like somebody making a story up to get attention taken off of themselves for some reason.)
At any rate I digress…what I really want to know is this: The description of SZ. Is there an actual physical description of this person or is it a worded profile of what KIND of person would do something like this? The reason I ask is that I can’t imagine any reason not to release an artist sketch if there was a physical description. Maybe nobody saw a face…then why not a description of clothes worn, height, race…you get the pic.
PS…bowling isn’t just for fun! My nephew got a full scholarship to college for bowling! Tuition, books and housing.
Life is good in KY
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
LE seems to be closely guarded with information and appears to be keeping the public in the dark about alot of the information they may have regarding this case, revealing little and only asking the public to look for Kyron. Why?
There is a credible witness description, yet details not revealed. What did the credible witness see occurring outside at the truck (Kaine’s truck, as stated by DY) and what time of day was that? DY stated it does not fit the timeline that TH gave.
“I think that there will be things that come out of this investigation that will surprise you. That you’ll think about later on after it’s over. These are things I will tell you, when you ask me about the stresses that my staff is under and the other detectives and agency representatives are under, is that we have a knowledge of things that we don’t want to know about. … “We have knowledge of things we wished we didn’t.”
Knowledge of what things? What will surprise us? Unsettling.
I have to imagine that LE is watching and waiting perp(s) now known to them, or attempting to narrow the individual(s) or group down given the profiles revealed and do not want the perp(s) to know how close they are. How on earth do the parents of children attending SES relax with a child missing and such little information? I would be demanding a community meeting, more information from LE, some kind of assurance for my child’s daily safe keeping in a public venue.
There appears to be a predominance of alternative lifestyles in the SES vicinity. I am not aware of any satanic worship or rituals, wiccans in the area I live. Not to say it doesn’t exist here, but not to the extent that it is public knowledge. The incidence of known sex offenders in OR is high:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127235597
Therefore, it appears to me that if one were to wish assistance in making someone disappear, whether it be MFH or disappearance of an unwanted child – one may not have to look long and hard to find a partner.
I also feel that the older child, JM, moving away just months prior to KyH’s disappearance is somehow directly related to the June 4th occurrence, whether he was moved to preclude another possible witness to the event or just that his move is an indication that there were more serious things going on in the marriage/household/family than stated.
Nancy says:
December 28, 2010 at 10:47 pm
about the Williamette and Oregonian being excluded from the ONE presser…
they were excluded because they already had information on the MFH Plot…they were asked by LE as in LAW ENFORCEMENT and the FAMILY OF KYRON to NOT break the story so that they could do their investigation THEIR WAY…you know their JOB? and those 2 outlets REFUSED TO MAKE THAT AGREEMENT…they were turned away for “not being team players” because their scoop was more important to them than Kyron… the Oregonian withheld the story and went back and apologized and were included in EVERY OTHER presser after that…the Williamette went forward and posted their scoop…which forced LE’s hand putting them in a now or never situation with the sting that they werent ready to pull off…just to beat the press…for one I believe that they wanted some time to pass so that TH could get more comfortable before they did it…so that they would have a chance at it…but no, thats not how it happened and we all saw how that DIDNT work out…
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Nancy.
Thanks for bringing this over from the SM site.
I had heard this explanation of why the family set-up the rather strange ground rules for that presser before – and it makes perfect sense.
The Willimette Week and Oregonian were both initially going to go ahead and print the info about the MFH plot BEFORE law enforcement had time to make their plans to try to get a sting in place.
Just so they could get the news scoop. Damn the investigation – they had a big scoop!
Like you said, the Oregonian did back down and agreed not to print the MFH story right away (work with LE) – and were allowed to stay at that presser and every other presser since that time.
But the WW would not agree to hold the news of the MFH for a little while – having that scoop was more important to Wilimette Week than allowing LE time to put a sting in place that just might have gotten some valuable info.
Thus, the WW was asked to leave.
Makes sense to me. Totally ties into the comments about some news agencies “not being team players” – and being asked to leave.
This also explains why the sting that LE had to rush to put together FAILED. (b/c of uncooperative press LE had to rush and didn’t have an air tight plan in place).
Too bad really.
LE only had that one chance to set-up the sting perfectly – but they had to rush to put a plan in place before the story of a MFH was all over the front page of the Wilimette Week.
I don’t know if this story is true or not … but I’ve heard this version of what happened before.
I also agree with the the comments the SM poster wrote about. Kaine is not some uber-exec at Intel.
He does not have the power to control the press.
He has a decent job there – but he is not a President or even upper management at Intel.
He is one small spoke, on just one cog, in the many wheels that are involved in running a huge international company such as Intel.
Thanks for bringing this version of events over from SM Nancy.
I remember reading a similar explanation of the events surrounding that news presser months ago, but had forgotten about it.
Note to readers: Not a syllable of this account has been confirmed, and since I know for a fact that Kaine did NOT KNOW about the mfh plot until the morning of the 26th at the earliest, I do not even see how this is possible.
The mfh plot was The oregonian’s scoop, Max Bernstein to be exact, so the timing does not work either.
The “sting” failed because:
1. They believed their witness after confronting TH and she denied it, so in essence, she had advance knowledge that they knew about her involvement with Rudy Sanchez.
2. It was executed on an open channel, she knew her house was bugged, and since I have seen the transcript of the “sting”, there is some possibility she may have seen some of the “friendly’s” in position on her way back to the house..
3. They did not count on TH calling the police on the guy who says she tried to hire him to kill her husband- who would do that if they had something to hide, and then follow it up with calls to MCSO about custody.
4. It was born from the perspective that TH knows where Kyron is, and with no evidence he was not alive, they acted, they felt, prudently to effectively “rescue” him. For that, I will not condemn the action, but there is a reason the DA took over this investigation.
5. Repeat- Yes, that is correct, the agency who she now knew was treating her as a defacto suspect, she called them for help 3x in one day.
All the above being said, I would not let this woman near my toddler (Kiara) until she was cleared of any involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, or the extent of any complicity was known and evaluated.
B
“The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print.
B”
Yesterday I had 2 Michaels on the brain & I responded w/Mr. Cook. I should have said Michael Roten. This is a snip from Blinks “Terri Horman Hired Landscape Lover”
“Blinkoncrime.com Editorial Analysis
It cannot be a ko ink y dink that this information was leaked to the largest paper in the state, following the snuff by Kaine Horman. The landscaper lover was well known amongst us media folks, but not the plot part.
Where is started to go cattywampus for me was where we see the new John Deere tractor aquired by the Horman’s recently, would seem somewhat unnecessary if they had contracted a landscaper/lawn service.
Another oddity which could be completely unrelated, stays with me.
Intel colleague and Horman family friend Michael G. Roten, was arrested last August on suspicion of menacing charges in Clackamas County the day after an Intel bag with a Sony computer, prescription Gucci glasses was taken from a vehicle on Country Club Rd. It is not known if the 2 incidents are related. Roten posted on Terri Horman’s facebook offering any help they could, a few days after Kyron’s disappearance was made public.”
Could Michael Roten be involved?
Testing again…unable to post since yesterday…at seizure onset…
You have nothing pending my friend, all posted.
B
Perhaps paranoia is setting in with this addictive case, but I have read and re-read messages on 12/28, #25 with blink comments so many times that I am seeing connections that seem to fit with a capital F. (don’t I sound like Blink? lol) What keeps me from jumping out of my computer chair is the fact that I have felt this way before and nothing panned out. But THIS time I am certain…KH comes to mind…
@17. Whether or not she can be successfully prosecuted now, it doesnt seem to me TH is clearable until Ky is found and the links in his chain of abduction established by LE.
@25. Nate. Roten has a big googlable eprint, or did last summer. Someone mentioned Cook set up the kyron site. KH’s stepdad did per incorporation
@27. Socks. I looked back @ yr 12/28 reference and cant connect birthday kid parties, Chuckie’s, bowling & KH. However, reading other 12/28 comments, I finally googled the eprint thing and Finally Understand Blink isnot referring to personal info on line a smartie could erase, but to having one’s internet traffic (activities) unseeable/untraceable .. And what puzzler meant about off shore. It’s cheap, too. Is it legal?
One thing’s for sure, TH’s such a blabbermouth, she’d never think of this. Ditto for Villarreals and others who let it all hang out. It would be used by a secretive personality
http://www.metropipe.net/tunneler_pro.php
Re the absolutely necessary (in my mind) facilitated “community meeting” of the Skyline parents & The List. I looked back in june/july to identify who the “community orgamizer” was. Becky Anderson Owens was organizing support, prayer vigil, skyline neighbors, etc. Does her maiden name mean she’s Glen’s sister? She was id’d as Kurtis’ mother & on the bowling venture (ithot he was a holm). She’s Kaine’s & Cook’s friend, so wouldn’t organize this without Kaine’s direction. Perhaps she would WITH his direction. On the other hand, if school pta organized grants, landscaping, cafeteria utensils, and pig slops, why not this? Very frustrating. Is it fear of crossing LE?
I am referring to a meeting conducted and facilitated by LE, and Kaine was not at the school that day, is the Father of a missing child, and a material witness and should have absolutely no involvement or appearance. For a myriad of reasons, the last thing LE needs is accounts that could potentially be influenced in any way.
This is to be used as an investigtive tool to progress the investigation, while I support all other efforts for the community to support each other and itself, I am specifically referring to a meeting to progress leads in this case.
I hate to sound so clinical, but it is in fact, just that. Being more specific would divulge some common investigative techniques I choose not to publicise.
Let’s just say for the sake of this exercise, everyone’s “intel” goes into the funnel, and what LE uses as a baseline, comes out.
They need new funnels and they need more baseline.
B
These people were all interviewed individually, inspiring dialogue collectively is prudent, imo.
33.Rose says:
December 29, 2010 at 10:05 am
Finally Understand Blink is not referring to personal info on line a smartie could erase, but to having one’s internet traffic (activities) unseeable/untraceable .. And what puzzler meant about off shore. It’s cheap, too. Is it legal?
~~~
outside US jurisdiction. look up man/child love organization
I’m sure there is an “e-print” of the suspect zero. He uses an alias. His IP address may be actually a friends computer- a library computer a business computer, some computer other than his own….. LE just hasn’t been able to identify it yet. They will. Praying for Kyron.
“The agency who she now knew was treating her as a defacto suspect, she called them for help 3x in one day.” B
I think this is important.
No one expected her to call 911. But yet that was her first reaction to feeling threatened that day. There’s more to the story. We’re not seeing everything.
someone commented that TH is such a blabbermouth but I think she is only when it serves her best interest cause she sure ain’t talkin now.
@chickel I think if TH struck a deal, we would have Kyron by now.
Blink says:
Houze will rupture any case against his client that is not bulletproof, and in doing so, he could very well effectively destroy the possibility of anyone ever paying for what I believe is a heinous crime against a child. Rod Underhill knows this better than anyone.
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I could not agree with you more, Blink. With Houze as legal representative, the DA’s office knows first-hand what it will take to prosecute TH if in fact they continue to believe she is guilty.
In addition, if LE is seeking indictments for TH and possible accomplice(s), the accomplice(s) will have the indirect benefit of Houze’s representation as well – because as part of his representation of TH, Houze would attempt to negate the relevance of any actions between her and accomplices as they relate to Kyron’s disappearance. Therefore, the DA must have, as Blink says, a “bulletproof” case.
The most horrific outcome would be if the guilty are never held accountable for Kyron. I agree with Blink that the DA knows they run this risk if they move too soon or without enough evidence.
It could be a long, long time before there is any sense of closure or justice in Kyron’s case. Ultimately though, in my opinion, it serves Kyron best if the DA takes their time to ensure innocent person(s) are not convicted or guilty person(s) are not allowed to walk free.
NelMel says:
“I don’t care who did it — I just want Kyron found and the person who took him hung up by their heels in a commercial meat closet and allowed to slowly freezer burn.”
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The quote of the year. Agreed and thank you!
Blink says:
All the above being said, I would not let this woman near my toddler (Kiara) until she was cleared of any involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, or the extent of any complicity was known and evaluated.
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Agreed. I believe the courts must error on the side of caution whenever a child is involved, particularly in this case where a sibling has gone missing under suspicious circumstances.
If we know SZ has no electronic footprint it is because we can’t find it, which suggests we have had knowledge or reason to look for it… why? Has SZ attempted contact? If so, before or after little Kyron vanished? Who did SZ contact? Kaine, Terri, LE?
interesting read …
http://astargazersnotebook.blogspot.com/2010/09/piercing-horman-veil-part-1.html
Update on the O and WW booted from press conference.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9159.460
The sting was 06/26
ro/divorce filing 06/28
first news article I can find; http://www.kgw.com/home/9-1-1-calls-made-from-Horman-home-Saturday-97516269.html
Posted on June 30, 2010 at 1:02 PM
Horman family press conference booting ww and oregonian 07/01/2010
Because you need to demonstrate it’s relevance to the case.
B
Blink,
I will resend two posts from 2 days ago that haven’t come up.
I remember having trouble having them “take” so split them up from one long post into two.
Sounds like Idahogal had similar issue?
Idahogal says:
December 29, 2010 at 8:35 am
“Testing again…”
Thanks
I was reading some old posts and it occurred to me that I read somewhere that DeDe had a white truck similar or the same as KH? Does anyone know?
@mosaic that was her MO- she called the police right away for everything. It made her the victim. I know people that call the police constantly for every argument disturbance etc…
Nancy.
Sorry if my post above made it sound like the comments about the press conf. and Kaine were YOUR thoughts/feelings/theories on the subject.
You made it clear that you were simply sharing some interesting posts from SM site.
I thought it was an interesting conversation at SM and also I’ve read/heard this before elsewhere.
I snipped the part of your post that contained the idea’s from posters at SM, and then expounded with my own thoughts on the subject … and got firmly spanked by Blink for it.
I just didn’t want your name tarnished along with mine for exploring this ground.
Hope you understand.
Again-
Can we be grown ups and treat dissenting opinions with respect, and not describe as punishment?
Here’s why-
I took the time to specifically address a post, that was conjecture and erroneous, and backed it up with fact, and what I would consider a sound opinion. You disrespect me to call it a spanking.
B
I get the impression this person does not have much confidence regarding the investigation thus far and Dan Staton. Interesting take, see what you think.
http://www.truenelson.com/
Blink,
Back to 6/4 SF photos:
Other Mystery Man at SF with plaid shirt, bigger guy with girl, was he ever identified or on list?
As we don’t get definitive name or answer on corner Mystery Man, whether his name on list, maybe he’s possibly same one seen with Ky? Could he know someone who knows tweeting mayor; what in the world tipped Mayor off to tweet?
Magnify SF photo corner
guy: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1365626&id=1264414625&fbid=1489640002015#
It looks as if Mystery Man (MM) left hand may be putting business-sized envelope or folded paper into his left brown jacket breast pocket. Did someone just hand him an envelope or note? Does he have a note ready to hand to someone?
MM is likely left-handed. It would be awkward to do left pocket maneuvering with left hand, unless one were left-handed. If MM received something handed to him with left hand, then left hand would dominate. Putting something in left breast coat pocket would be easier with right hand, unless right hand is non-dominant.
Mystery man is not focused on SF tree frog exhibit photographer, an activity in an otherwise seemingly quiet room.
He’s watching something. It would seems a flash may draw notice to look toward photographer, even for a second and since so few people in the room. But, no. He’s thinking about this piece of paper and something else.
If he were more aware of the photographer, would he have tried to get out of the field of focus?
Where is Ky at this point in time? Mystery man head and eyes are focused slightly down and right. At who or what, a conversation with a child maybe? At Ky, who is not in exhibit-only photo? Where is Kurtis, whose photo was taken shortly before or after?
Locals to school,
What is in his field of vision from that classroom vantage point, a side door or exit? Was there for example a “cool electric” SF project directly in front of him? What takes a man back against the wall to the far side and back of other SF exhibits (behind another green exhibit), under a TV; it seems he is really tucked hidden in a far corner. There don’t seem to be others in the room, besides photographer (TH?) and perhaps someone with whom he is speaking –someone he knows? Something else has his attention. What would bring a person to stand backed up almost under a classroom corner TV — out of earshot for conversation? One could gauge his height from TV wall-bracket. He certainly blends in, professional enough, middle-aged, brown sport jacket, rounded neck dark sweater or shirt, groomed graying beard.
Are we certain that TH snapped photo or could she have handed camera to an older student, like Avery V., maybe? In which sequence SF exhibit photos were taken: Ky with exhibit, then Kurtis with his exhibit and then Ky exhibit alone? Was media card kept as evidence; did TH snap them all?
Has Kurtis said who took his photo? Does Kurtis remember a guy standing under the TV? He wouldn’t be immediately obvious to someone new entering the room. Who saw him that day?
And then the mayor tweet.
Hidden in plain sight?
iodizedseasalt says:
December 28, 2010 at 11:37 pm
@lyla #46 thats MY question too! did anyone just recently take out insurance policies out on Kyron, Kaine, Kiara? Great question
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We talked about insurance policies a long time back. I didn’t go back and find the posts, but generally speaking, since that sort of information tends to be private, I don’t think we can find out unless it comes out in the investigation. I suggested Kaine probably has some option through work which may include family as well. Many group policies allow you to insure children but usually not for very large amounts. Either or both parents could have had an additional policy, of course.
If someone thought they would get life insurance money from Kyron’s death, they would have to have proof (death certificate) he is deceased or wait a very long time, and don’t insurance companies do an investigation of their own, especially when something is this much in doubt as to what happened?
It is an interesting question, but didn’t get us anywhere before. High insurance on an adult is not unusual if there are children who will lose future support, but more than a very small amount of insurance on a child would be a huge red flag, IMO (if even available), and therefore, too great a risk as a motive.
Is there any link to the story that is being passed from site to site as to why Kaine banned those two media sources from his PC’s? Just saying it is because they would not hold back on the MFH story does not make it so. I’ve read some very indignant posts about how this should not be blamed on Kaine, etc. but have not seen a single link backing it up.
@B4.
“It was born from the perspective that TH knows where Kyron is, and with no evidence he was not alive, they acted, they felt, prudently to effectively “rescue” him. For that, I will not condemn the action, but there is a reason the DA took over this investigation.
5. Repeat- Yes, that is correct, the agency who she now knew was treating her as a defacto suspect, she called them for help 3x in one day.”
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Blink, is LE still operating on the assumption TH knows or has info where Kyron is? I’m trying to visualize just where this investigation is going and I’m seeing “clouds”. Do you think we will eventually have info on an identified accomplice instead of nameless, faceless, SZ?