Former UVA Cop Charged With Rape: Sean Michael Horn Faces Bond Hearing Today
Charlottesville, VA- Sean Michael Horn, 42, current Albemarle County reserve deputy and former police officer for the University of Virginia as well as the Albemarle Sheriffs Office was arrested last evening for rape. The arrest follows an extensive investigation conducted by the prosecutors office.
While there has been no specifics released, and it is the policy of www.blinkoncrime not to identify alleged victims of sexual crimes, we have learned that a complaint of rape against Horn was received in the Fall of 2011.
The arrest follows what can only be described as a series of chaotic incidents and events affecting Albemarle county law enforcement officers since 2009 at a minimum.
Following the death of 18 year old Greene County resident Colby Eppard on New Years Day 2010 by police gunfire, 7 Albemarle county officers were either suspended and/or demoted. Caleb Marden, a decorated sharp-shooter who served in Iraq was fired. Denise Lunsord, prosecutor for Albemarle county and North Garden resident, cleared all officers of any wrongdoing from the incident.
Eppard allegedly stole a neighboring Greene County patrol car and traveled almost 60 miles to Albemarle county. Although off duty Greene Sgt Randall Snead was out of his jurisdiction, Snead was among the officers in pursuit of Eppard and participated in the ambush to stop the teen. Snead’s former mentor and Sherriff, Willie Morris, committed suicide on January 28th.
Although he was on desk assignment pending the investigation of Eppard’s death, Snead responded to the scene of Morris’s home where he was located and rushed to the hospital. Morris was removed from life sustaining efforts without ever regaining consciousness. A suicide note blamed his tinnitus condition.
In a recent election, Steve Smith won the Sheriff slot running against Snead, and has since met with controversy after releasing nearly all of his staff. An email criticizing Smith was received by several news outlets from a previously fired Albemarle County Lt. Scott Cox, then a Greene county deputy who has since been released. Horn has Sheriff Smith listed as a friend on his facebook profile. Cox was among the Albemarle County Officers who was demoted after 18 years of service in the scandal.
Albemarle county is also the home of The Anchorage Farm, where murdered Virginia Tech student Morgan Harrington was recovered after exhaustive searches of the areas surrounding the JPJ arena, UVA campus and private LE searches failed to locate her. Harrington disappeared from a Metallica concert at the John Paul Jones Arena on October 17, 2009 after being refused re-entry by security. DNA evidence has linked the Harrington case to a suspect in an unsolved rape in Fairfax, VA in 2005. Former lead detective now retired, Lt. Rader, has only indicated that forensic link means that Morgan came into contact with that individual prior to leaving Charlottesville.
Efforts to confirm whether Sean Horn was working the event as a UVA officer that evening have not been returned.
Corrine Geller, public information officer for the Virginia State Police, whose agency leads the probe into Morgan’s homicide responded to our inquiry as to whether or not Horn was a target of their continuing investigation this morning:
“The investigation remains ongoing at this time. I’m not able to comment on who our agents have or have not looked into during the course of their investigation.”
Horn lists Virginia Tech among his educational credentials on his facebook account, where Harrington was a junior at the time of her disappearance. It is not known if the two were acquainted.
Horn is being held in the Albemarle Regional jail pending his bond hearing today.
Check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Related Posts
Related Posts:
1,151 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Hi all-
bp3- thank you VERY much or your response as it will allow me to elaborate Mike some of your questions will be addressed in this post too (Mike notice Morgan at one time was reported to have been walking on both sides of the bridge….)
bp3 please notice in my response I wrote it SEEMS as if this is bad reporting- and also I added I STILL wonder (about video especially IRT multiple attempts of reentry)
I know exactly which Rader quote you are referencing-
Rader
“we dont know what happened from the time she left her seat in sec 312 until the time she wound up outside… so we dont know if she was slipped a drug…we know that she probably fell…based on the abrasion… it didnt appe…it wouldnt appear to be a serious head wound but… we dont know that… & then certainly we know outside the venue, she was fumbling thru her purse… had dropped her purse and spilled its contents..and that uhh would be inconsistent with someone who had their wits about them.”….
didnt wouldnt….
Were you here for Observers posts bp3? I am going to be referring back to those- –
Hindsight is 20/20 If you go back and review her posts it seems she knew things- most of what she opined could be the narration for the Dissappeared Show or for any news briefing.
Was she 100 % accurate? No but she was very intuitive and could still teach us a thong or two
FTR she cautioned:
snipped:
Observer says:
November 12, 2009 at 6:38 pm
based on reading and considering different theories that have been put forth thus far by various parties. [Plase note: I am not a member of LE but am instead a member of the general public. The things I have shared are my theories and are based on no first-hand knowledge from LE or any other sources.]
——
— In the Disappeared show Rader and Cap are very careful in their wording when discussing video –
Surveillance video-.
Capuzzo says:
“None of the video footage that we reviewed revealed any evidence of what happened to Morgan- nothing”
Rader says ” I felt certain we would have found at least a 2 or 3 second shot of Morgan Harrington outside the venue but that just did not happen-I cant explain it… I can only tell you, of all the video we have, there is nothing relevant to Morgan that we are aware of..”
This below snippet and those to follow in Part 2 are from the thread
http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/11/10/morgan-harrington-case-lack-of-leads-frustrates-search-efforts
I began with Observers first post inorder to introduce her- please keep in mind these posts are from very early on and I am posting them inorder to show the comparisons to what she thought then and whatis known now- and to illustrate why it is I STILL think it is very possible they have footage but that the footage is most likely of one of her attempts at reentry possibly at the ticket booth and that is probably grainy and ultimately as Cap said- in no way reveals any evidence of what happened to Morgan-
Observer says:
November 12, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I apologize in advance for the length of the following commentary.
I work in very close proximity to the JPJ arena and have been following this case since its inception. I have not commented earlier but instead have been reading the posts, following the media, and trying to piece together the puzzle of Morgan’s disappearance. In that vein, I offer the following observations:
1. Keys – One of Morgan’s friends drove Morgan’s car from Harrisonburg to Charlottesville. It is easy to assume that this friend held on to the keys when the group arrived at JPJ. This is why, when Morgan left the arena, she was unable to get into her car parked in the adjacent UHall parking lot. It’s easy to understand why, when she did talk by phone w/ one of her friends, she did not ask for someone to try to “pass” the keys outside to her, as she’d told her friends she’d find a ride home. [Whether “home” was rendezvousing back in Harrisonburg on Sat. evening after the concert or on Sunday morning is unclear. What is clear, however, is that Morgan intended to eventually end up back in Harrisonburg one way or another, where her car would end up after having been driven back by her friend after the show. Morgan’s only way back to Roanoke from Harrisonburg on Sunday (and her roommate’s only way back to Blacksburg on Sunday) would have been in Morgan’s car. [Remember: Morgan and her roommate originated their trip to the concert by leaving the Blacksburg area together in Morgan’s car.]
2. Only three options remain open:
a. Morgan planned her departure at the concert and intended to leave behind the life she’d known. I think this scenario is highly unlikely for several reasons, not the least of which is that, for all intents and purposes, her life was stable and going well. There is no evidence at this time of a reason why she would want to “leave everything and start over”. Given the closeness of the family, it’s also unlikely she would intentionally continue to put her family through the horrific trauma they are now experiencing as a result of her disappearance.
b. Morgan was abducted and is alive somewhere being held against her will. Again, I think this scenario is unlikely, as most abductions result in the victim’s murder. There are two recent exceptions to this scenario: Elizabeth Smart and Jaycee Duggard. Both of those victims, however, were very young when they were abducted. Victims who are abducted who are older—as in the case of Morgan—are extremely difficult to manage, control, and manipulate for any significant period of time. This is especially important in Morgan’s case, as she is by all accounts a very bright, independent, and capable young woman. An abductor would have a very difficult time holding anyone but a very young victim against their will for anything more than a brief period of time, after which time they would resort to murdering their victim. They could not simply allow their victim to go free, as the victim could identify his/her abductor and provide LE with a mountain of clues to lead them to the abductor.
c. Morgan was abducted and subsequently murdered.
3. Did Morgan know her abductor, e.g., had she met someone on-line earlier who she believed was a good person and planned to meet him IRL at the concert, or was she the victim of a random assailant that evening? This is actually immaterial—unless, that is, LE can identify and track the digital footprint of this individual through Morgan’s computer, e.g., IM’s, Facebook, email, and cell phone records—all of which have assuredly been well-scoured by LE by this time. Had LE been able to identify a person of interest, they would have this individual under constant surveillance and would have made every attempt to determine if he was either holding Morgan against her will or had murdered her. If LE has been able to ID a POI, they are intentionally (and wisely) keeping such information confidential. They would not want the POI to know that they were being surveilled as it could lead to their “going to ground” (going into deep hiding) and/or the POI could intentionally lead them away from wherever Morgan is—dead or alive. LE is maintaining confidentiality of certain information and not releasing it to the general public for a reason, not the least of which is the a POI would be monitoring all the websites and media coverage of Morgan. Perpetrators of such crimes are often compelled to “watch their own press” and maintain an avid interest in the media flurry surrounding such an abduction.
4. Why did LE allegedly wait three weeks to initiate a volunteer ground search? LE appropriately began their ground search for Morgan almost immediately upon the realization that she was not a walk-away. An air and ground search was initiated for the immediate area in an attempt to obtain any evidence that might lead to finding out what happened to Morgan. I believe that LE called off the search because they have every reason to believe that Morgan is no longer in the Charlottesville area. I believe that LE held that a continued or wider search would be a wasted effort that could be better re-directed to find and return Morgan. LE later supported the Harringtons’ desire to use the Laura Recovery Center, however, to effect a larger-scale volunteer search for these reasons:
a. It allowed understandably frustrated community members to engage actively in helping to bring Morgan home, providing an appropriate outlet for their frustration, energy, and desire to help.
b. It allowed the Harringtons to be comforted in the knowledge that a much broader area had been searched.
c. It allowed LE to underscore their earlier belief that Morgan is no longer in the CVille area.
d. It provided LE with the additional and extensive manpower necessary to recover any trace evidence that might still be in the area.
e. It allowed this missing person’s case to remain in the media and in the forefront of everyone’s mind.
5. Flyers – While posting flyers around the country is an admirable effort, I believe it will not prove fruitful. A flyer might remind someone if they saw Morgan; however, I do not believe that the abductor at any point allowed Morgan to be seen by anyone, nor do I believe that Morgan was taken to an area outside of a 25 mile radius of Charlottesville. The Charlottesville community has been inundated by flyers and media coverage, so if anyone in that area had seen Morgan they would have reported it by this time.
6. Friends – Blaming Morgan’s friends is another futile exercise. Anyone might second-guess the friends and their choices and behaviors that evening. All the speculation in the world and blame targeting Morgan’s friends will do nothing to advance this case.
7. Purse and cell phone – Many have asked why, if Morgan was purportedly seen on the Copeley Bridge, would her purse and cell phone be left or found “behind” her at the Lannigan Field RV lot? Some conjectured that she dropped it there earlier, by mistake, before heading down to the Copeley Bridge. It may be worth considering this scenario: Morgan left JPJ. She walked through the UHall parking, and into the Lannigan Field RV lot–all with purse in hand (or, on her back if it’s a type of “backpack-purse”). She then proceeds to Copeley Bridge. [She is reported to have been seen on both sides of the bridge—both walking with traffic headed toward Ivy Rd. and on the other side—the only side with a sidewalk—walking facing traffic that was headed toward JPJ and the UHall area.] If the abductor is headed toward JPJ, he stops, convinces Morgan to get into his vehicle (remember, it is misty, dark and 42 degrees outside and Morgan is only wearing a tee-shirt; no jacket or coat), drives directly to the Lannigan RV lot (only feet away), disables her, discards her purse out the vehicle window, and leaves the area with Morgan. If Morgan’s cell phone was in her purse (her mini-skirt probably did not have pockets), the cell phone battery could easily have fallen out on impact. This logic also prevails given that the individual who found the items on Sunday morning and turned them in—both purse and phone—found them closely adjacent to one another. The very small size of a cell phone battery could be easily overlooked, especially if it fell in the RV lot where vehicles after the concert would run over it when departing the lot. Other than a meticulous visual search of the area, the cell phone battery might only be found by using a metal detector. To date, no one has made mention of use of a metal detector in an attempt to local the missing battery. As stated by the VSP in one of their earliest news conferences, the absence of the cell phone battery is not considered material to this investigation.
To those who might question how an abductor might cajole Morgan (or any other victim) into a vehicle, it is enormously easy for a charming and otherwise skilled person. It would not be difficult to gain Morgan’s trust by offering a quick ride, e.g., back to the JPJ area, indicating that it is not safe for a young woman to be walking around by herself at night. An abductor can gain the trust of his victim by focusing on the danger she might otherwise be in without his “help”. Serial murderers are masterful manipulators who target their prey just as animals do in the wild. If Morgan was at all under the influence of any substance that made her an even greater—and easier—target not only to abduct, but to subsequently subdue.
A final cautionary word to all: Beware of believing all that you read—including my own conjecture above. Given the media storm and cyber coverage of this event, massive miscommunication is occurring daily. This serves only to cloud the investigation and waste LE’s time having to pursue purported “leads” that are little more than loosely-connected pieces that do not actually fit. Everyone’s heart is the right place; we just have to exercise good judgment as we each attempt to assist LE and the Harringtons in successful resolution of this puzzling and most disturbing case.
Observer- welcome to blinkoncrime and you certainly make an entrance. I would ask all reviewing this case to read this post. I can tell you first hand there are things in it that the general public would not know. Observer, I appreciate you pointing out the immediate search activity on behalf of LE. It is my understanding thermals were also generated quickly.
B
cont Part 2
AJMO
Part 2
Observer could still teach us a thing or two
Observers Posts and released info known/unknown info and speculations over possible info
These are from the same thread and may or may not be the entire post- I urge everyone to go back and read
snip
Observer says:
November 12, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Following is more conjecture on my part–again, based on reading and considering different theories that have been put forth thus far by various parties. [Plase note: I am not a member of LE but am instead a member of the general public. The things I have shared are my theories and are based on no first-hand knowledge from LE or any other sources.]
I do not believe that Morgan’s friends contrived or concocted this story to cover-up for any wrongdoing on their part. There are far too many friends involved. The greater the number of individuals involved in a conspiracy, the greater opportunity that one will slip up and reveal the truth.
These are college-age women, not seasoned criminals. Their ability to mastermind something nefarious would be very limited. It is also easy to assume that LE has used all methods available to them in an attempt to dissect the stories given idependently by each of Morgan’s friends and identify any inconsistencies therein.
I find it neither revealing nor surprising that Morgan’s friends have shut down their FB pages. It is easy to imagine that they have been inundated with commentary–some of it vitriolic–about their alleged responsibility for Morgan’s disappearance. If I were they, I would do the very same thing.
I believe that the public, in their sincere quest to find Morgan, are drawing at straws and creating connections where none exist. Likewise, I believe that basketball players mentioned earlier are not involved in Morgan’s disappearance.
We all want answers and in our collective frustration we rush to one judgment or conclusion or another. We are inpatient because we all realize that as each day goes by, the chances of finding Morgan and reuniting her with family, safe and sound, lessens.
I don’t have the answers; I just have conjecture like everyone else. I do, however, trust LE implicitly. These are the individuals who are the experts–unlike someone like myself–and are trained to unravel these mysteries. Godspeed to them in their efforts.
Snipped
Observer says:
November 13, 2009 at 11:09 am
I second B’s last comment and am unsurprised that Morgan’s body–if, in fact, she was murdered–has not yet been found. Albemarle County (which surrounds the city of Cville and the University proper) is the fifth largest county in VA covering approx. 744 sq. miles. Much of the county is very rural; the number of back country roads is significant and the population density in the outlying areas is very low.
It would be enormously easy for an abductor to drive down any one of these myriad back roads and deposit a body just a bit “off the beaten path”. The ground cover of leaves alone at this time of year makes this even more plausible. There would be no need to attempt to go to great lengths to hide a body, e.g., dig a shallow grave, etc. and the odor of decomposition would go unnoticed.
I do not believe that the fact that Morgan’s body has not been recovered to date is an indication of whether or not Morgan’s abduction was pre-meditated.
In response to an earlier question, re: the 25 mi. radius, I believe that research will reveal that in most abductions that result in murder of the victim, the victim’s body is found within a 25 mi. radius of the location where the victim is last believed to have been seen. For a variety of reasons, an abductor who kills his victim is not going to want to drive a great distance and/or for a long period of time with a victim or body in his vehicle. Regardless of whether or not a abduction is pre-meditated, the assailant will want to deposit the body relatively quickly–ergo, the 25 mi. radius referred to earlier.
Remember: Morgan is an adult victim, not a young child. If at first temporarily disabled by her assailant, it would only be a matter of time before he would be faced with trying to again overcome Morgan, possibly while still driving. There would not be ample time to drive, for example, far out-of-state.
Even if a victim is completely disabled initially by the assailant, he again would be disinclined to drive a great distance with a victim in his vehicle. He would want to discard the victim or body as quickly as possible in order to avoid the possibility of being discovered.
The VSP and local LE conducted an intense ground search of the area immediately adjacent to JPJ, UHall, Lannigan Field, and the Copeley Bridge. When that and the aerial search revealed nothing, LE suspended the search. They did not and do not have the manpower to effect a 25. mi. radius ground search grid. [Note: The volunteer ground search did not include the outlying and rural areas of Albemarle County.]
Here is a suggestion I’ve been mulling over for the last couple of days: Engage all the local hunting groups–local to Albemarle County and the six adjacent counties of Louisa, Greene, Nelson, Fluvanna, Buckingham and Augusta–to keep their eyes open for any sign of Morgan. My sincere belief is that Morgan’s body is located in far reaches of one of these counties and the best opportunity of finding her is a hunter coming across her while trekking through the woods. This is hunting season and these hunters may be LE’s best chance of finding Morgan.
Snipped
Observer says:
November 13, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Re-entry attempt(s): As of yet there has been no announcement of footage verifying Morgan’s entry or exit from the JPJ venue. Even absent that evidence, I am of the mind that Morgan did indeed arrive safely in Cville, did enter the JPJ arena, and exited same. [I believe many people are under the mistaken assumption that video footage would provide a very clear and distinct image of Morgan's entry and exit. I submit that such footage would be grainy at best and clear and definitive identification would be challenged by the number of people entering the arena prior to the event. There are literally hundreds of concert-goers who are being simultaneously shepherded through the portals. To pick any one individual out of a crowd would be no easy task. This is not like the CCTV cameras that are trained on customers as they approach a bank teller's window or individual passengers passing through airport security. Instead, imagine a camera farther away from the point of focus, capturing hordes of bodies moving relatively quickly in a confined area.]
Snipped
Observer says:
November 16, 2009 at 1:20 pm One final note about the camera surveillance: One of the earlier VSP reports (paraphrased) mentions MH being seen outside near one of the ticket booths. [I believe this was made in conjuction with MH's re-entry effort(s).] It would be reasonable to assume that the ticket booths–like bank teller booths–would offer the very best images of any concert-goers attempting to purchase a ticket. Video surveillance and monitoring at this particular site would be critical to arena security in the event a BG attempted to rob or hold up a ticket booth attendant. It may be that LE has a clear(er) image of MH at this location.
Snipped
Observer says:
November 14, 2009 at 7:35 pm
I do not believe and have not believed that at any point LE has been able to make a positive video identification of Morgan inside the arena. [Emphasis on the word "inside".] I still believe that LE has every reason to believe that Morgan did, in fact, enter the arena, exit it at some point prior to Mettalica taking stage, and make at least one attempt at re-entry. I share that view but would be remiss to comment further.
Snipped
Observer says:
November 15, 2009 at 9:17 pm
The overriding challenge in the case of Morgan’s disappearance is, quite simply, the lack of hard evidence upon which LE may base a conclusion at this time. Outside of Morgan’s found purse and cell phone, there is no evidence per se–at least none that LE has deemed appropriate to release to date. This is exactly what LE announced in their first press conference, e.g., “We have a purse and we have a cell phone. We have a missing girl,” said Lt. Joe Rader.”
Absent any other hard evidence upon which to base a theory regarding Morgan’s disappearance, LE is working diligently to confirm through verifiable eyewitness accounts Morgan’s activities that evening. They have provided a possible timeline based upon certain of those witness accounts. As additional witnesses come forward LE must ascertain, among several other things, if the account given is consistent with other accounts that have been previously verified. The process is tedious and time-consuming. Eliminating witness accounts is likewise critical.
further snipped:
re: re-entry attempts on the part of Morgan. I believe that LE has aptly concluded that Morgan did, in fact, attempt at least one time to re-enter JPJ. [More on that below.] Even absent conclusive video evidence to support same, interviews by JPJ door/security staff and telephone convo(s) between Morgan and one of her friends inside JPJ would support this assertion.
The electronic “guns” used by LiveNation to scan tickets as ticket holders enter the arena should have a time stamp.
The video cameras inside JPJ may likewise bear a time-stamp. Cross-referencing both, however, would be complicated by the three challenges mentioned in one of my earlier posts regarding JPJ security cameras: 1) the questionable quality of the images; 2) the distance from camera to image(s); and 3) the very large number of individuals moving through the portals and inside lobby area of JPJ during any given screen shot. Therefore, even if the time stamp of Morgan’s ticket is identified, and the same time is identified on the JPJ video, LE may still not be able to offer substantive proof that Morgan entered JPJ at a specific time.
However–and this is the big “however”–I believe, as does LE, that Morgan indeed entered JPJ. When there is reference made to LE having Morgan on surveillance video, there is a distinct possibility that the video in question is of Morgan attempting to re-enter from the outside of the arena–not of Morgan’s original entry into the arena.
That is, LE may have in their possession video footage of Morgan attempting to RE-enter (as they assert repeatedly) because there would be far fewer individuals moving within a given screen shot after the majority of the concert-goers had already entered JPJ earlier. In addition, cameras trained on the area immediately on or outside of the portals may provide more accurate footage based upon their location from the target focus—as opposed to video images taken inside the otherwise congested lobby area.
Ergo, LE may well have documented video footage of Morgan attempting to re-enter, while they are not in possession of documented video footage of her original entry into the arena. If her ticket was scanned, LE might rightfully conclude that she entered and exited at some point. As mentioned above, accounts from security personnel and the cell phone conversation(s) between Morgan and one of her friends inside JPJ would support this theory.
cont part 3
Observer was a a very smart poster,she was correct about alot of things and wrong about others…. her conjecture may turn out to be correct about more- but then again, it may not.
AJMO
cont part 3
Observers posts-
Observer says:
November 16, 2009 at 1:20 pm
One final note about the camera surveillance: One of the earlier VSP reports (paraphrased) mentions MH being seen outside near one of the ticket booths. [I believe this was made in conjuction with MH's re-entry effort(s).] It would be reasonable to assume that the ticket booths–like bank teller booths–would offer the very best images of any concert-goers attempting to purchase a ticket. Video surveillance and monitoring at this particular site would be critical to arena security in the event a BG attempted to rob or hold up a ticket booth attendant. It may be that LE has a clear(er) image of MH at this location.
Observer says:
November 16, 2009 at 3:55 pm
B: A couple of random points:
Last week I met twice with the security consulting firm that is on contract with the University. [This was not coincident to or as a result of the MH investigation; the meeting had been arranged far in advance of MH's disappearance. Rather, the scheduled meeting was in response to our acknowledged need to re-evaluate and re-vamp the existing security protocols at the specific facility where I work.] At those meetings we intentionally did not discuss the MH case. Our focus was on meeting and managing the security needs of our faculty, staff and students.
B, I would submit that, while your efforts to review blue prints, bid specs, etc. of the surveillance system of JPJ are notable, I would not rely on them alone. While it’s clearly not feasible in this instance, I would rely instead of first-hand knowledge of the placement and functionality of the video surveillance system. Absent that first-hand knowledge I would be reluctant to comment definitively on the level of sophistication or functionality of said system, and the related appropriateness (or not) for a venue of that size serving a wide variety of audiences and events.
Observer says:
November 17, 2009 at 9:45 am
snipped
My observation of this unfolding case is through two distinct lenses: criminal investigation and legal implications. That is, I am observing this mystery as it unfolds as if I were the lead investigator and, at the same time, my perspective if I were either the prosecutor or counsel for the defense. [Criminal investigators and LE are well-advised to take the long view when attempting to effect resolution to a case. It is not enough to focus alone on identifying suspect(s), M.O., means, motive, etc.] In the case of Morgan Harrington, making effective use of all three perspectives may be helpful in coming to the appropriate conclusion and bringing to justice the party or parties responsible for her disappearance.
—
So
Observer was basing her conjecture on released info then way back in November before dear Morgan was even found- -
I am not claiming Observer was an insider what I am claiming is she was very adept at deducing info she was smart- and you know what?
it is very sad that here we all sit going over the same info that Observer had way back in Nov-
The Disappeared show and the walk-thru gave us no more or less than Observer’s intelligent thorough conjecture did then
AJMO
Just for further emphasis I leave you with these next observer posts
Cont Part 4
Part 4 snippets of Observers posts
Observer says:
November 13, 2009 at 6:24 pm
My perspective is that we are witnessing again what we have been witness to often over the past almost four weeks now: the public’s understandable thirst for more information and greater detail. The public is frustrated by their desire to assist in resolution of this case and simultaneously feels thwarted when information is made public in only a piece-meal fashion–as is the case in many investigations.
I repeat my earlier cautionary note: none of us–myself included–should jump to conclusions. We need to methodically take each piece of the puzzle as it is revealed to us until we have assembled a complete picture upon which to base a conclusion. Any action otherwise is misguided and ill-advised.
Observer says:
November 15, 2009 at 9:17 pm
The overriding challenge in the case of Morgan’s disappearance is, quite simply, the lack of hard evidence upon which LE may base a conclusion at this time. Outside of Morgan’s found purse and cell phone, there is no evidence per se–at least none that LE has deemed appropriate to release to date. This is exactly what LE announced in their first press conference, e.g., “We have a purse and we have a cell phone. We have a missing girl,” said Lt. Joe Rader.”
Absent any other hard evidence upon which to base a theory regarding Morgan’s disappearance, LE is working diligently to confirm through verifiable eyewitness accounts Morgan’s activities that evening. They have provided a possible timeline based upon certain of those witness accounts. As additional witnesses come forward LE must ascertain, among several other things, if the account given is consistent with other accounts that have been previously verified. The process is tedious and time-consuming. Eliminating witness accounts is likewise critical.
The above is only one of several reasons why LE has released what information it has, when it has. To the public’s eye, LE is willfully withholding information. To an extent, that can be accurate. In other instances, it is not. I am certain that in Morgan’s case–as in similar cases–LE is using a combination of efforts and strategies to engage the public’s assistance in bringing this case to a successful resolution. [Bear in mind that the term "successful resolution" may be recovery of Morgan's body and identification of the party or parties responsible for her disappearance.]
Sadly, there is little “proof” to be had thus far regarding Morgan’s disappearance. This is what is most frustrating to LE and hampers their efforts to further the investigation. This is precisely why LE appropriately turns to the public for their assistance.
—
So- after reading Observers comments I have to ask
Has LE finally rethought their strategy regarding releasing of info?
Perhaps with the newest release in the coming weeks -the public will finally get more of the pieces and might be able to call in with the tip that completes the puzzle-
AJMO
sorry for hogging the board-
Redly you wrote:
Mom — you and I just disagree over how much emphasis to put on certain words and one piece of testimony.
Perhaps Redly but I am not going off only one witness account or word or- NP report or national show- I am basing my thought on all of them and pointing out the contradictions in each and questioning each -
Are you going off what would seem to be pure conjecture?-
I ask because the released info via the first Hook piece and the walk thru piece amd the disappeared show never brought up anyone seeing Morgan after the bridge sightings although they did ask for someone anyone to come forward… why would they say she disappeared off the bridge if Curstsy duo last saw her near the porta potties?
You wrote:
You seem to be relying a lot on the exactness of the bookkeeper hook statement and on your reading of what that statement meant. That the players were described as converging in a lot (which they obviously did as their cars were there) does not, in my mind mean that the bookkeeper necessarily would have seen them all in a big group surrounding morgan during her drive by at approximately 9:15 (however long that took).
redly- what are you basing your thoughts on?
BK accounts again seem to back up the BBP accounts and LEs accounts and the Hooks accounts all the way up until the point of convergence-
She is quoted – yes quoted as saying the lot was empty that Morgan was gathered around with same group of men- and they seemed to be getting ready to party-
You wrote:
She easily could have been standing near the 4-5 she walked with while they were getting into a car or cars,perhaps then asking for a ride to the nearest party, while the others were getting into their own cars or leaving.
Redly
According to the QUOTE it was one vehicle- but yes this is entirely possibly as BK did not know their intentions nor did she ask- but it would seem that her thoughts on “going to party”- would be based on her observations which I can surmise would mean that Morgan and said group of same men were still getting along and protrayed their outward behaviors in such a way as BK thought they were happy – probably because they didnt have alarmed or scared or sad or mad expressions-
so I would deduce that
1
Morgan hadnt scared this group yet
2 she hadnt asked and been denied a ride yet-
and it seems to me thru deductive reasoning and critical thinking skills I can surmise that BK was right in her accounts
she saw the same group – in empty lot
and probably observed this group of 4 BBP smiling waiting with/ NOT WITH Morgan for the rest of the 10 to converge- and this occurred around 9:15
which means the other 10 players hadnt converged yet- nor had Morgan scared them off yet nor had they all sped away in their vehicles yet-
as I would think that set of actions would make Morgan Harrington sad Mad – and not happy, and I can also surmise that the same group of 4 wouldnt have been happily waiting around with morgan seemingly getting ready to party – they would have took the other players departures as – yikes this girl is scary lets exit stage right…
You wrote:
The snippet in the hook said nothing about other cars or people not interacting with morgan when she drove by.
Redly, No it didnt but specific language was quoted by BK and she was with her husband and friend when they parked and I would think their observations could also be used – and also it is not just her accounts Redly it is the Hook reporting on LEs thoughts during the walk thru piece the first piece where curtsy duos interaction is reported.
and the language of (PP) except **) *AFTER* the “students”= BBP, *depart* Morgan makes her way along the fence where Curtsy duo see her- while driving up Massey road…. and why think it is strange for a woman in the rain to curtsy…she does not flag them down…why would that be strange if there are still BBP in the lots perhaps she would have gone back to ask for a ride again…why would she flag them down if she were not suddenly *alone* and desperate- and about to hightail it to the bridge to HH?
You wrote:
I am not going to rely on that hook report of what the bookkeeper told them to decide that there were only 4-5 people in the entire parking lot at that exact time.
Redly, Again it is not only the bK account and even though i agree others would be in the vcinity- the BK was- and MV and who knows who else- the fact is BK made no mention of thanyoneelse- and again if she was not suddenly alone when CD entered the picture why would it be strange that she didnt desperately flag them down?
You wrote:
She then could have made her way back to the port-a-potties at 9:17 or so while they all drove off.
redly anything is possible- but I submit that 14 players getting into 14 vehicles and driving off would have took longer than two min from the BK sighting at app 9:15 and I surmise that CDuo traversing that area in their cart and departing themselves would have added more
You wrote:
It is tight time wise (as everything in life is by definition when you look back after the fact) but there is time for it to happen unless you are trying hard to make it not work.
Redly respectfully – I am not trying hard not to make it work the facts as we know them, are right in front of your face- all I am doing is questioning the timeline that LE says they DONT have-
Morgan Harrington had to be on the bridge by or before 9:20-
and if she did make it there in the allotted time then one of the witnesses named or unnamed seen her make her way to the bridge- people departing do not teleport to a spot- it takes time and those witnesses would at the very least be able to back up the others accounts just like BK earlier account was backed up-by kickee and probably the 4
You wrote-
As an aside, it is obvious the bookkeeper was wrong about at least one thing as the group was not gathering in the lot to party before going into jpj.She made that assumption, and it is a fair one for someone who is going to a concert to make, but it was simply wrong and it likely colored her interpretation of what she saw. We process information with certain experience driven assumptions in mind and sometime adjust what we see to fit those assumptions. That is one reason why police look for multiple witnesses to piece together what really happened.
—-
Ummm redly just for the record we dont know she was definitely wrong and I agree she may have been but We dont know why she made assumptions if she did… what was going on? perhaps they drank a beer together or looked like they were drinking something together but in actuality it might have been Gatorade….we dont know. Maybe Morgan was smoking a cig and offered one to the guys- and BK wrongly thought it was a joint- we dont know-
and as I said above BK may have jumped to this conclusion because it is the only thing that made sense to her – as to why a group of seeming happy joking people she saw earlier, would be in the lots outside a metallica concert happy- and not happily INSIDE enjoying the show,
Not waiting to party but in actuality they were happy waiting on their friends to converge.
DG account is open to interpretation just as every other account is agreed- that was my point Morgans drinking or not and intoxication or not is open to interpretation, even to her friends-
I do agree to disagree and I do think you could be right and I do hope that you can see your way to thinking I may be right in my thoughts also- after all sadly it IS ALL open to interpretations at this point.
AJMO
Peace Redly
From everything I have read Morgan apparently conversed with the BBPlayers for ten minutes. That is quite a long time. Longer than merely asking them for a ride to the next party.
I hope in the civil suit the content of that conversation and interaction is released. Also video requested.
Redly, I doubt it could work:
You say:
“She then could have made her way back to the port-a-potties at 9:17 or so while they all drove off. It is tight time wise (as everything in life is by definition when you look back after the fact) but there is time for it to happen unless you are trying hard to make it not work.”
9:17 she is at the porta-potties
9:18 duo appears–she curtsies
9:19 she RUNS to the bridge
9:20 she is standing on the bridge, thumb out
Now, Dad and Daughter were on the bridge before or at 9:20 because they made the trip to the dorm and Daughter walked in the door at 9:23. I drove from the bridge to the dorm last year in approx. 4 minutes, so it’s tight time-wise. I need to check the time again, I had a definite idea of the time it took with and without traffic.
BUT a good question might be: if she did make haste to the bridge (frightened or worried?), was it to get away from the duo?
redly says: June 7, 2012 at 10:55 am
Finally, my reading behind the lines of what Dan G said is that he thought morgan was acting messed up in his brief interaction with her after parking next to the car — more than the others in the group. He did not see them actually drinking and of course had not been with them in the multiple hours leading up to them arriving at the parking lot.
———
How could the cousins have parked next to each other at JPJ if they had not been together prior to arriving? Unless they met close to JPJ and waited to park next to each other.
Why didn’t the other Morgan go to the concert as she was supposed to?
Thanks Blink. Here is the link provided in you previous article regarding the report.
http://blinkoncrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/policelog1.jpg
What I meant when I said that my theory no longer applied regarding the theft was that I assumed the implication was Morgan needed to borrow a phone due to not having her bag due to “theft”. When I saw the time frame which the theft occurred it no longer fit as we know Morgan did have the phone between the time of the theft and the suspension. Frist-time came to the same conclusion as me regarding Morgan trying to get into her car that night perhaps after losing her phone battery and not being able to reach her friends either because she found no cell to borrow or did borrow one and got no response. Does thatmean there was never a theft and she just wanted access to her and tossed out a random time frame car or are frist-time and I still lost? Actually pretty sure I’m still lost.
We don’t know if it was Morgan making that call, it’s all speculative.
B
I haven’t had time to completely read all the recent posts and they look fantastic, but one thing I wanted to address: Hummingbird’s comment that Morgan interacted with the BBP for 10 minutes. In my estimation it was more like 15-20 minutes. The bookkeeper saw Morgan and 4 of them cross Massie at roughly 9:05; (the BBP had exited JPJ at 9:00) then saw them again in the RV lot at 9:15. They say they left at 9:20 but I’m inclined to think it would have taken at least 3-5 minutes for all 14 players to exit the lot. Even if there were 4 players per car there would have been at least 4 cars. Just my opinion though.
Olivia, There are dorms closer than the ones you drove to (if it took you 4 mins).
Alexandra — I don’t understand the questions — sorry.
Mom — Of course you could be right and the duo saw her after the dad/daughter not before. I have said that numerous times. You are the one that seems to say that the timeline cannot possibly work. I just think you are wrong to say that. It can work or it could be wrong.
The bookkeeper quotes I can find are as follows:
“It was right about 9pm when we were driving down Massie Road with JPJ to left,” says a Richmond bookkeeper/musician whose late arrival prevented her from hearing opening acts Gojira and Lamb of God–- but got her there in time to spot a “wobbly” blonde woman step in front of the car.
With the blonde were four young, white men–- a conspicuous group, says the witness, because of the direction they were headed: away from the Arena.
In addition to a black miniskirt, tights, and a black shirt, the young blonde was wearing distinctive high-heeled boots, says the witness, a mother of two who spoke on condition of anonymity over concern for getting “pulled into the fray.”
Until now, the missing woman’s boots have been described as “knee high,” but this witness insists they were “over the knee.” (Through a spokesperson with the Harrington’s recently hired PR firm, Gil Harrington says the boots she saw Morgan try on prior to the concert were not above the knee.)
The men, says the witness, were allegedly laughing.
“I thought, ‘That girl should have no business going off with those guys, walking into an empty parking lot when the concert is getting ready to start.”
The blonde, however, did not allegedly seem distressed and even, seemingly as a joke, shook one leg at the men, also clad in black. The witness estimates the time at 9:05pm since she placed a phone call to a friend a minute later while still on Massie Road.
news-findmorgan-bridge-memorial-insetMorganPolice say the last confirmed sightings were on both sides of this bridge around 9:30pm.
It wasn’t the last time the Richmond woman saw the young blonde. After she, her husband, and friend parked near U-Hall, she says, she saw the same group of five gathered around a vehicle in the RV Lot, or Lannigan Field overflow parking lot–- the spot where Morgan’s purse and phone were found and one of the last places police have officially placed her.
“I figured, ‘They’re going to party before they go into JPJ,” says the woman, who estimates the RV Lot sighting as 9:15pm. When she learned about the disappearance on Monday, October 19, she says, she immediately relayed her information to police, who have interviewed her as many as five times in the past three weeks.
____________________________________________
I don’t see the quotes from the husband and the friend you are relying on and I also don’t see any quote that indicates the RV lot was empty nor anything that would lead me conclude one way or the other that she knew if other people were in the lot getting into cars or not. She saw her in the RV lot after parking in the UHall lot and I don’t know what she did or could have seen other than morgan with the boys she had been walking with by one car. What if the 9:15 were really 9:12, would that challenge your certainty that the timeline cannot possibly be right?
The timeline does not work – not because of the 9:15 sighting by the bookkeeper – or even if it was really 9:12. It does not work because according to law enforcement, the players left the lot en masse at around 9:20 and Morgan was still in the lot. BUT…the father/daughter duo saw Morgan on the bridge at around 9:20 – could have been 9:18 or 9:22 but still – she’s on the bridge at the time they are said to have left the lot – with her still in it. That’s a problem. You can add or subtract 5 minutes from every time given except the door stamp key which was 9:23 and it still does not match the statement that the basketball players left Morgan alone in the lot. Does not compute.
I don’t think LE says the players left en masse at 9:20. It doesn’t make sense that they would. I think its possible some were gone before the bookeeper even saw her for the second time (after driving along massie, circling back to the uhall lots and parking). Also, the port a potties are in the lot.
Redly-
I never said there was a quote from BKs husband nor the friend
heres what I wrote:
she was with her husband and friend when they parked and I would think their observations could also be used –
You know what the problem is Redly?- the problem is that there were so many hands in the pot so many agencies- we just cant be sure about any thing not the timeline the shirt find- the statments nothing-
We sont know when Rader and company got around to interviewing the witnesses themselves and unfortunately we cant know if the witnesses or their accounts were tampered with even innocently – by a reporter or by the witnesses own second guessing- or a news account, or a rumor or by the first agencies questioning, or by a lawyer,or by a family member a helpful parent, friend, or coach, or girlfriend, husband we just cant know
We all know that witnesses even under the best circumstances who give their accounts immediately can error- then you take ALL these outside factors and the fact that most of the witnesses except for Norma Parsons were reluctant to come forward .
UVA PD did the initial questioning redly this is a fact – and it is a sad fact why? Because even though Im sure they did their best their own fears and biases most likely found their way into the questioning process-
You take a reluctant witness – one who only has a time estimate and then that estimate doesnt sit well with the timeline which thankfully allows a missing woman to be with not with the BBP and off campus when she was abducted- but wait she wasnt really abducted she most likely willingly got into a vehicle and was thankfully off of said campus by her own choice – despite the fact noone saw her enter a vehicle and she could have doubled back and been attacked and thrown in a vehicle never to be seen alive again, and then you add on to this that LE have said that Sketch met up with Morgan sometime at charlotessville before her death and the police have said they have no suspects, and no timeline and no video then what do we have?
Nothing- but speculation and interpretations
So given that they are time estimates someone could have inadvertently nudged the witness into changing a time or at least nudged them into allowing for a larger window for estimated times…
Hence the police have said they have no timeline and so it would seem they themselves understand that the timeline as we know it right now is nonexistant- meaning they understand it doesnt fit- but its what they have- and I would think with the civil case we may all get to understand this more fully or hopefully the gaps will be filled in…
yes redly as I have said anything is possible it is possible that MH timeline is just as they have said- she was here in the lots from this time to this time and CD saw her while BBP were leaving and they were each others collaborating witnesses – yeah we left and she was there alone we were gone by 920 -then she makes it to the bridge- FD + see her and then dont yeah its possible-
]
and my whole point of saying the timeline is questionable is because LE has Morgan Harrington entering a vehicle willingly between F/d passes- HH and then she is gone—-
They cant know that redly- which means the whole scenario is faulty and they are closing themselves off to a myriad of plausible scenarios and making this case harder to prosecute- Why? because they are willing to paint Morgan Harrington as a girl who made all the wrong choices and somehow met up with Sketch- and juries will be judging Morgan on the info they have read the info that has been released and they will judge her on her attire and on her possible inebriation on her wobbliness on her walking with not with and with her propensity to “hook up” and leave for a day or two- with her behaviors scaring the BBP away– with her “strange” curtsy- with somewhat aggressive kick- and with her “lets go” and “it wasnt long before she found another group of men to join” and it was 3:45 in the morning and I was like what is she doing out here with these guys legs out mini skirt…and with she dropped her purse and cell and emptied her purse and didnt have her wits and her having to lean on cars for support…all the rest-
and that is NOT fair to Morgan Harrington LE have done Morgan Harrington NO favors with their choice of wording and there choice of releasing info and all we have to go on is these releases and most of it is filtered thru reporters who are guilty of using the same kind of language because that is where we got the info from which by the way seems to go towards protecting others not MH-
and that is a shame
AJMO
Peace
well researched and sound- as you do. As an aside, there is never a time I do not read your entire posts. I may be pressed for time on occasion ( lol, is can’t remembering the last time you went to the bathroom in a day an excuse, ugh) but I will hold and read, because I know, there may be a perspective I or we missed, and that would be our loss.
Hugs and “good on you”
B
PS – I just reread my post and I want to make clear that I am not questioning the BBP involvement I am only questioning the language and released info of with not with and off campus etc-
The BBP were told they could speak out if they wanted to they didnt which is just fine- I probably would have done the same thing0 but in LE and others giving them the okay to speak I would think that LE could easily take it upon themselves to make the timeline more workable by clearing up if CD and the BBP left at 9:20 or before if they were in the vicinity before or after if Norgan was last near the porta potties or in the lot or near the grassy knoll or if they saw he walk toward bridge…
Redly-
Hello the first and only official timeline released has the lots encounter from 9:10 to 9:20-
I am not certain about anything Redly so please continue to challenge me-
so your asking me if BK sighting moved to 9:12 would help me see the timeline as feasible/workable?
I have already said its possible Redly but my problem with the timeline is 1 LE says they have none- and
2 I do not see how it is possible for a girl who was wobbily holding herself up on cars etc and a group of 10 players converge after 9:12 have a scary encounter
deny ride enter CD leave in separate vehicles then/or CD enter- Morgan curtsies then they leave and Morgan becomes desperate goes to bridge is seen by F/D then is seen on other side and maybe back to opposite side but is thought to have willingly HH entered vehicle – gone by F second pass- and must have HH not simply walked back to the lots to wait for her friends and sit by her purse and cell where the cell goes dead at 9:30 but Morgan is still on bridge at 9:30
AJMO
Peace
B- the local media picked up the recent activity regarding the case we discussed privately. I just got off the phone with a reporter who told me that they have to be careful & not do too much reporting on it because they don’t want to desensitize the public. That they only do new pieces when there is *new things to report.
I was speechless. Shouldn’t the goal be to reach possible witnesses & to encourage them to come forward? I think all news reporters covering missing persons, kidnapping or murder investigations should take a class in marketing & PR. I don’t think they should nancy Grsce it but there should be a happy medium. Assuming most local news outlets follow the same mind frame of this girl.
My dearest, that is bs, but you knew that. However, no, a reporter reports.
That is all about editorial, not investigative journalism.
B
Redly you said “He did not see them actually drinking and of course had not been with them in the multiple hours leading up to them arriving at the parking lot”
and then, what I was trying to say is that I do think they were together during the multiple hours prior to arriving to the parking lot at JPJ because the driver Dan C and others in the car next to Morgan’s car, are cousins, from New Jersey. How would they just so happen to park next to one another unless they left where ever they were beforehand, together?
I’m not saying that I think any of Morgan’s friends or aquaintances had anything to do with Morgan’s murder. It’s just that something happened after 2pm. Their plans changed. Morgan and her roommate had a spat and Morgan’s evening just kept going from bad to worse and then the worst thing happened to her. I know she was so happy to be going to see Metallica.
Redly,
I live in C’ville. I know where all the the dorms are. 3 minutes minimum.
9:20-9:23 is tight, possible, but tight. It means there was no conversation at the dorm–just “See ya.” So Dad/Daughter were on the bridge at 9:20 or before as we have been saying.
Mom3.0
Thanks for all Observer’s comments. Interesting to look back on.
Tango
What if the BBplayers left her alone in the lot just three minutes before 9:20, as Redly suggested? It could work but unlikely. They could have left her “alone” in the lot AS the CD was appearing on the scene. She, back by the potties, curtsied and then high-tailed it to the bridge by 9:20. But this requires that we ask WHY did she high-tail it to the bridge? We had all assumed that the BBplayers had seen her ON the bridge, remember? Then we found out about Dad and Daughter.
So BBplayers saw her in the lot, according to reports, at about 9:20–yet Dad/Daughter ALSO saw her at about 9:20 on the bridge. I have wondered here before if the CD threatened her at all. She might have made her way quickly to the bridge when she saw headlights coming, stuck out her thumb, then quickly made her way off the bridge when she did not get a ride. Whoever was threatening her may have followed her to the parking lots where 10 minutes later Granny saw them arguing.
All Best
Leelee says:
June 8, 2012 at 5:59 am
Thanks Blink. Here is the link provided in you previous article regarding the report.
http://blinkoncrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/policelog1.jpg
—-
looks like there was an arrest at JPJ at 9:02PM that night too. So UVA police dept were outside the arena and made an arrest. Did I see that correctly?
Alexandra — I thought that Dan c was there with his cousin but that was not someone in Morgan’s car. He didn’t know Morgan’s group before parking next to them. Perhaps I am wrong though.
The Park, where the purse theft was reported, is not close to where Morgan parked if she was in the uhall lot.
Incorrect.
B
@alexandra are we certain Dave Gardner was a cousin to Dan C. or was that just speculation at some point? Anybody? If it’s true it’s extremely interesting, especially given the NJ trip by the North Garden firefighter after Morgan’s body was found.
Unrelated to anyone in this case as stated, and an overall nice young gentleman.
B
I may be mixing up the Dans. I am talking about the Dan who parked next to Morgan who was quoted as saying he saw no signs of drinking, but, to my reading, was implying Morgan was acting diferently from the rest of her group before the show.
His name is not Dan. It is Dave. And there was no interpretation outside of his direct comments that I saw.
B
Alexandra you read correctly and there appears to have been at least two Arrests at JPJ that night and maybe even 3 but the date isn’t visible on the last one.
tango says:
June 8, 2012 at 9:17 pm
@alexandra are we certain Dave Gardner was a cousin to Dan C. or was that just speculation at some point? Anybody? If it’s true it’s extremely interesting, especially given the NJ trip by the North Garden firefighter after Morgan’s body was found.
Unrelated to anyone in this case as stated, and an overall nice young gentleman.
B
—-
The trip to NJ by the NGFD group had nothing to do with the cousins from NJ driving Morgan’s car and parking next to Morgan’s car.
B- totally agree that it is bs. She did tell me that she calls the police dept everyday for updates. She cares. But that dept aint sayin shat.
Anyhow, those reporters are worked to death for little pay and when you’re a newbie- you pretty much do what the news director tells ya. They don’t have the luxury of reporting on things that they really want to. I think I just described every journalists dislikes of their job.
In regards to recent discussion about Morgan- I may be over simplifying things but here are my thoughts:
1. WITNESSES WHO CAME FORWARD:
I pray their contact info has been kept along with details of what they said they saw.
Even if LE -at the time- could not corroborate it.
Things change and it’s important that they review the statements periodically to make sure they can still not be corroborated.
Possible blunder- if they failed to reinterview witnesses after Sketch was released.
I hope they did it earlier bc now- chances of them recalling that person- less likely.
Video footage: my thoughts
It may be
- Crappy- doesn’t show crap that will help them
-it may show sketch (highly unlikely) & they still can’t identify him. As they cannot with the composite.
CIVIL CASE: I hope is partly in regards to RMC & other JPJ outsourced/contract employers – being ordered to provide a list of employees working that night. In a perfect world- a list of all employees- (in case someone who worked for them happened to be in the area & arrive their NOT to work- but to pretend like they are or were that evening
SECURITY/Event staff Angle-
My gut feeling from day 1- that if it were me in Morgan’s situation-
young (i would’ve been drunk) but incoherentish as she’s been described-
•In the cold drizzle
•Pissed at my friends, getting denied reentry
•That I didn’t know anyone to catch a ride with
•I was alone
—-I would’ve trusted someone in a security vehicle who pulled over & asked me if I was okay & needed a ride.
In college, I accepted a ride to the dorm w/ a police officer. Why? you’re supposed to trust them. He could have done anything- thankfully he’s a good guy.
I just can’t shake the feeling that she accepted a ride from someone who she thought she could trust. In a car…or A GOLFCART! (not accusing)
I’d definately accept a ride on a golf cart when I was young.
Frankly- IMO there are only three scenarios possible
-she accepted a ride from someone (security, cute guy)
-she was so disoriented to decided to accept a ride from anyone (hitchhike…still think thats bs)
-she was attacked from behind (like FFX) and instead of taking her into the woods as he did in FFX- he could’ve learned that it’d be best to grab her & throw her in a car.
Key issues not to forget
TSHIRT PLANT!!
Possibilities:
1. Someone found it, didn’t want to identify themselves & hand it over to LE – bc they didn’t want to become a suspect. You know if someone turned it in- they’d be a poi instantly…especially if they had a criminal record that’d raise LE attn bc of background
2. The perp left it there to either
Taunt LE
Or
Keep them searching in that area- not outlying areas
Anchorage Farm:
Whoever did this- whether Sketch or accomplice- knows AF, like the back of their hand
If the civil suit requires LE be provided a list of employees-
Investigate WHO has a connection to AF.
–this could be the accomplice!
I would investigate that angle hard!!
VFF’s
I hope that LE has investigated each of them and a possible relation to AF OR who’d have been in the FFX area at time of other attack.
Unfortunately we do not know what witness’s have been reinterviewed.
I pray that the sec angle has been top priority- but I think hands may be tied without access to their names.
I don’t think at this point:
Her friends have anything to do with it.
CODIS:
It is a fact that there is a backlog in many states- not sure about VA or surrounding states.
Possibility- sketch has attacked in other states and DNA hasn’t made the database yet.
Or there has been other matches not publically disclosed.
I hope that they have or will-
Ask all LE in surrounding states if they have any unsolved rapes, murders whose DNA is in backlog.
If there are- putting a rush on getting that DNA entered- in hopes they have another case to tie him to.
Recap:
Need to reinterview witness with sketch composite
Obtain list of contract employees
See if any connections to AF
Dig in trash and get DNA sample
Dig in golf carters trash for DNA
Obtain bball players DNA
Contact other states for cold cases not entered in CODIS
Start working with FFX LE!!!
Sorry for long post. But been meaning to get all that out.
Mom3.0, Redly, tango everyone- please let me know your thoughts
J4M
DP
WOW it’s good to see all this fresh energy! You guys are wonderful.
I just had an epiphany. The 9:20 time that the players left the lot was not provided by the players. They said they left Morgan in the lot and LE knows the time F/D saw her on the bridge was 9:20 – so their leaving had to have been by 9:20. The bookkeeper saw her in the lot at around 9:15. With this tight of a timeline, it’s just my opinion there’s no way Morgan could have gone to the bathroom, curtsied, and then be on the bridge by 9:20. I think she must have gone back to the lot after hitchhiking but she may not have been alone at that point…it’s at that time she loses her bag/phone and that’s about the time Granny sighting happened.
Yes ma’am. She turned around on the bridge and went back, which has always been my belief.
If the timeline has holes, as any good investigator will tell you, then so does the theory.
B
How could he snatch her from the tree lined area and get her in a car? Unless he attacked her from behind, like he did before.
How did this SOB stay unseen? I don’t get it.
Where did the golfcart duo see Morgan go? They were watching her so closely that she curtsied? They had to keep watching her after the curtsey. Some people would have raised a middle finger….Morgan curtsied.
A really BIG and really LOUD add on Fox News …. Judge Jeanine — tonight!!! “Have they solved the Morgan Harrington case?” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well in the name of all that is holy, what was the “vague” description” Granny gave?
MORE on Fox … This hour!! All about Morgan! Somebody’s doing good … Ummm … Blink!
PS: My time is 4:00pm. Central Time.
so if the granny sighting is correct, then morgan was headed back to the arena at 9:30 ,so she is abducted in the u-hall lot or accepts a ride?why would she be headed back to the arena?because now she realized she needs to access her car and will make an attemt to get help doing that?so ready for the civil suit to shine some light on these questions, was she told to vacate the premises ,cops would be called? you guys keep saying ,she was offered help but refused it, who offered and what kind help did she refuse? i missed it, i remember some talk that someone asked her if she needed a ticket and she said no, but what other help was she offered that she refused?i highly suspect that the security personnel are very guilty of smarmy protocol ,with how they dealt with morgan.
i hope the next girl scrapes his dna with her ring as she gets away.
What about this possibility:
As you say, Tango, what if the BBplayers did NOT leave the lot at 9:20? Dad/Daughter saw her at that time on the bridge. But what if she “hitched” while a few players were still in the lot? They all left (or all seemed to). They might be the other witnesses. Perhaps she tried to gain their sympathy that way. She then headed to the porta-potty where she was seen by the CD. After that she headed to the big lots, presumably followed by someone–one of the CD or a stray BBplayer (or friend/relative) or someone else…
@ Mom3.0 says:
June 8, 2012 at 4:36 pm
Brilliant post my misty mountain friend!! Olivia your take on Morgan going to the bridge to try to get on of the BB players to stop makes sense to me /then porta potty / and she heads back to the big lots presumably followed by some one ….one of the CD , stray BB Player ( or friend or relative ) or someone else waited for an opportunity to attack morgan when she was finally alone in the lot
Good work everyone excellent collective thinking going on here at BOC.
So happy and relieved so many of us have stuck around and continue to care about finding justice for dear Morgan and her wonderful family.
I just watched Justice With Judge Jeanine.
LOTS OF THINGS I WANT TO POINT OUT!!!!!!!!
Will soon!
Dr. Pepper,
I just watched JJJ also and my head is spinning. I do not know what to address. I will begin with my heart breaking again for the pain the Harrington’s have had to suffer yet remain so strong and kind. This couple display a true gracefulness and support of each other. They need closure on this. They both touch me as one of those people that truly are only trying to do the right thing always.
Then there is the blood on the T-shirt of a rape suspect from Fairfax…..Say what?
And the statement of fact that entry was made thru the gates to place Morgan’s body in the hay field. And the failure to understand what Mr. Harrington was saying about the timing of the sketch before school was out resulting in possible loss of witness forever and the danger the student’s were left in. Someone may have seen sketch that night, before that night or after that night. They may have graduated, transferred or just quit school and are now gone forever.
Thanks for reading my posts Blink -sorry for the length and for the spelling & typos…
I appreciate your feedback and the hug I needed it-
Some days its just so frustrating….
Hummingbird Olivia and all thanks for the responses-
Keep up the good work guys
I missed the show so I hope Dr.Pepper, Rose7- or someone will share thanks-
AJMO
grannies story must have gained creedence,when morgan was found with her gold earrings,if it was morgan ,she would now, have last be seen in the uhall lot,headed toward the arena at 9:30.even worse for rmc jpja,if she was even closer to the arena,last seen in a main lot ,and then just gone,that would lead me to believe she accepted a ride,rather than abducted,that many people in the u hall lot,and no one sees her again?? .gil states ‘morgan’s black arm’, surely gil wears it on the left arm ,as it was found. would a nearly skeletized ,be black ,or is that a clue that morgan had bone injuries on her left arm/shoulder.
I missed the show too. How can I access it after the fact? Is it worth seeing?
someone asked how the killer could have abducted MH in the parking lots. I think it is plausible that the killer came from under the copeley bridge, grabbed Morgan at the U hall end of the bridge and took her back down (there is a large area underneath with a grass covered slope leading to the end of the bridge with vegetation growing near the end where Morgan’s memorial is today. The killer had cover and concealment. There is parking on the level area near underneath the bridge. This is an extension of the U hall parking. AT that point he and MH would have been pretty much out of view. I think then he got her into his vehicle. I do believe that he had help. Does anybody think that the fairfax abductor had help?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU9BP_uzf8k&feature=related
I missed the show too and I can’t find anything on the internet.
What did they say???
Ode, re the show last night: which gates? and: Sketch’s blood on t-shirt?
My takeaways:
Jeanine does not think that the DNA was found on Morgan’s body. She discusses with the Pathologist about decompesition, skeletonized, lack of tissue
-He basically confirms to her that there is likely no forensic evidence on the body.
(I think that is total boo honkey)
She referred to the shirt being found with Sketch’s blood on it….to the Harringtons and they did not chime in and say- it could also be from the body.
HOLD. THE. PHONE.
say whaaa???
Sketch DNA/Blood on tshirt and not the body? I wa floored.
Jeanine is acting like she knows there was no forensic evidence found on the victim.
??
Mark Fuhrman-
interesting opinion to hear-
He thinks this guy is a career criminal etc.
The location of the body—doesnt tell him that this was planned.
They might have been familiar with the area but they didnt plan it because now
they know the body will be found within a period of time-its a farm-that’s absolute.
It also shows him that it was not an intentional homicide, that mabye the victim fought and it was the outcome of the rape. It wasn’t intentional- he got rid of the body.
(that was almost basically a direct quote.)
Dan also said Morgan did not call anyone from her phone. She received one call from friends inside the arena and she told them that she would find a ride home….hours away.
B- Jeanine would love you- she is irate they waited until they did to release the sketch. She’s livid.
O if you could have seen the emails and PM’s I got that day- Honestly I appreciated the Harrington’s speaking about the fact they wanted the sketch info released as well, because I did not know that until I informed them in advance when I was publishing it. I met Her Honor a year ago at Fox Studios. I am saddened to report she is as radiantly beautiful in person as she is on TV, lol. Razor sharp.
I should also say that my source gave me that information (NOT the Harrington’s or anyone associated with them) out of the concern for safety of others. I knew a few weeks before that the DNA evidence was in (sketch) and the profile was a “shock” to LE, but it was not until the source was sure it was the intention of VSP to hold it that I got that information.
I would do that again, and will if I am ever faced with that dilemna in a heartbeat.
B
B
B- very, very, very interested to hearing your thoughts about that show.
Jeanine did take umbrage when Mark Furhman said it was not an intentional rape by indicating Morgan had suffered broken bones, ribs before she died,IIRC.
I meant an intentional murder, not rape, in my last comment. Sorry