Blink On Crime Feature Previews For Next Week: Josh Powell, Jerry Sandusky, Pat Brown
Princeton, NJ- Taking a break in observance of The Easter Holiday, www.blinkoncrime.com previews next weeks featured articles. Comments always open; joyous and safe celebrations to all.
The Joshua Powell Backstory Even Susan Did Not Know
Part 2 of the backstory on Josh Powell. Blink analyzes the analysis that should have prevented the horrific murders of Charlie and Braden Powell. Part I featured Here.
Sandusky Pretrial Begins- Curley and Schultz To Plead The 5th.
At a pretrial hearing Thursday afternoon, defense attorney Joseph Amendola told the court if called, former Penn State Administrators Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, currently facing perjury charges, will invoke their fifth amendment rights.
Sandusky, through Amendola expects to refile a motion to dismiss all charges against him when prosecutors add to the thousands of discovery documents they have already been given. Follow the Nittany Nightmare Series Here.
Blink Reviews Criminal Profiler and Psychological Mystery Author Pat Brown’s New eKindle Book: Only The Truth
Pat Brown, criminal profiler, true crime author and frequent national guest expert releases her first fiction work.
Blink reviews Only The Truth, eKindle version of Pat Brown’s latest release.
Related Posts
Related Posts:
52 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Blink, your ADHD is showing, busy aren’t you.
Have a great Easter weekend Blink.
Get your mind away from all the evil you fight on a daily basis. Give your family and especially your mom a big loving hug from all of us. Tell her that she, like you, is loved by many that she does not personally know.
ATG, I thank him for the blessings often, not nearly as often as I should I fear, but my sincere thanks for your kind words.
It is by his grace I will get to have a meal in celebration with the people I love most in this world.
I pray for that for everyone. And to remind us that if those we love most are not sitting at the table, when they sit in our hearts they are there just the same.
Love and Peace to You and Yours.
For those that share my faith, and in celebration of those with faith in general: He has risen.
B
@Ode
Uhoh. What did I do now?
Wanna ride bikes?
Lol
OMG Blink I am making you paranoid. I will only ride bikes with you if we can do it with night vision goggles, in our bathrobes at noon. Look forward to all the new stuff.
LOL LOL. That was my fave ADD joke, but your idea sounds like a plan.
B
Have a wonderful family weekend and a Happy Easter!
To you and yours, and especially lizzy jr this year. He is my kinda little dude.
B
Happy Easter B and all your loyal Blinksters! Looking forward to updates when you can make them happen! May the Bunny be Good to All! I love this holiday because somehow the Reeces eggs are better than the CUPs MOOO!!!! LOL!
I know you are busy but I just need to say “What is up with Florida?” The Zimmerman fiasco just keeps building. Where is Jose Biaz these days? This man is dissing his Attorney’s to the point they quit yet still proclaim his innocence. What? And I heard the UN wants to get involved? Human rights issue. I just shutter at what will be the outcome of this. You need only to look at the 2 shooters in OK this week-end. National TV producers are taking liberties and then loosing their jobs. What is going to happen next and I fear fear fear it will not be pretty.
Ode
Your bike riding at noon description had me laughing so hard my rib (intercostal) muscles hurt.
Mr. Zimmerman is in trouble with his attorneys because he did not follow their advice about not speaking with the press.
When people who make decisions about news stories take sides and make it an agenda to the point of making false statements, things are really in trouble.
IMO Mr. Zimmerman as a security captain for his subdivision was doing the right thing in trying to find out what Trevon Martin was doing in his community. Trevon, while wearing a hoodie in the warm Florida climate, invited scrutiny. Many, many crimes are committed by persons wearing a hoodie. Anytime I see such behavior, wearing a hoodie, they will get scrutiny from me.
Trevon actually attacked Mr. Zimmerman as reported by the EMS people. They cleaned up most of the damage prior to taking him to the police station. This day and age, when you attack someone you take the chance that they may be armed and you could loose your life.
Texas and Florida have similar laws on the books about the use of deadly force when protecting yourself and your property. I hope the appointed special prosecutor will do the right thing and close this case without charges.
A Texas Grandfather,
I would so love to have you along on the bike ride…It would be a YouTube hit I am sure…LOL
As far as Zimmerman, I’m so in agreement with you in that as reported there is every possibility that Trevon may have attacked first. That is why I was so surprised to see Mr. Zimmerman handle his attorneys the way he did. I get it if you do not want to be represented by someone but should you not let them know that. It was as if he was taking the law in his own hands in regards to his treatment of his attorneys. Not great when that is what he is being accused of. This case is a true SNAFU…situation normal all (f) up.
Ode
I’ll take the bike ride, but only if I can wear a top hat and tux with tails. LOL
I think Mr. Zimmerman is afraid for his life and family members. Political pressure is being applied from the WH to the local level.
Trevon was not tweleve or thirteen years old as depicted in the early photos in the media. He was seventeen and stood 6’2″, larger than Mr. Zimmerman.
I don’t know what the real story is with the lawyers. They could be claiming lack of cooperation as a reason to withdraw when there could be other reasons.
Blink will probably put a stop to this, but it seems like a good OT area for now.
WHWB, WWB–Wearing Hoodie(in the rain) While Black and Walking While Black is the issue.
Trayvon Martin was profiled. George Zimmerman had a choice to wait for the police to come to the scene after he made an appropriate phone call to authorities based on his suspicions, regardless of his biases. I have made the same choice a number of times, unaware of how my biases were affecting my very valid phone calls.
I believe that Martin was concerned about being followed by an adult male of Hispanic descent. Trayvon was biased, based on socialized and observed behavior, as well as alarmed that this person was a threat.
Martin foolishly chose to confront the threat and attacked Zimmerman.
Zimmerman could have used his phone or his fists or his running feet to protect himself.
Has anyone noticed how, in the police station video, he chooses to slump against the wall (in the garage, for which he was immediately corrected by the LEO) and chooses his own path around the motorcycles (instead of following the two officers in front of him)? Does anyone see him walking off to the side instead of following in line with the others as they make their way through the building?
Zimmerman and his family chose to disobey his lawyers admonition to not talk to the media under any circumstances. Did his lawyers also tell him to put up that ridiculous website depicting the ‘real’ G. Zimmerman–backdraped with our precious flag, as if he deserves its protection and promise?
George Zimmerman has been rescued by his family for his past crimes and problems. (Assaulting an officer in a bar where he is making an arrest for under-age serving and he gets no time in jail?)
I think charges should be brought against Zimmerman. He fired his weapon and killed a teenager because he was losing a fight against him.
Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Texas Grandfather. I don’t post often and realize I’m a stranger to you, so it probably doesn’t mean much to tell you that I respect the hell out of you. But I have to disagree, and I’m so disturbed by some of what you said that I had to sign on and respond. Even though I’m leaving for a business trip in a few hours, lol. Especially this part:
“IMO Mr. Zimmerman as a security captain for his subdivision was doing the right thing in trying to find out what Trevon Martin was doing in his community. Trevon, while wearing a hoodie in the warm Florida climate, invited scrutiny. Many, many crimes are committed by persons wearing a hoodie. Anytime I see such behavior, wearing a hoodie, they will get scrutiny from me.”
I think I get where you’re coming from, ATG. I know from your posts here that you are a good man, very principled and very protective. But the attitude expressed in the above paragraph chills me. Being vigilant and protective and scrutinizing suspicious behavior is one thing; taking the law into one’s hands is quite another.
This kid, TRAYVON, was unarmed, and he DIED. At the hands of a private citizen who had NO AUTHORITY to pursue the kid as aggressively as he did. I assume you’ve heard the 911 tapes, because you reference reports “from the EMS people” that Zimmerman was attacked. Did you look any deeper into that, or did you stop there? Because I have looked into the details, and it’s not as simple as you seem to think. Did you hear the tapes of the police specifically telling Zimmerman to NOT PURSUE the suspect?
I don’t want to go on too much because I know it’s OT, and I don’t want to seem like I’m just trying to pick a fight. I agree that people should be vigilant. However, Zimmerman went WAY over the line. Suspicious behavior should be scrutinized, sure, but it is not OK to assume the role of police officer when you don’t have the legal authority to do so. No matter how frustrating it is to be a private citizen in this increasingly amoral and violent society, it is not OK for people to run around in public wielding guns for “protection,” and it’s not OK to shoot someone just because you are suspicious of them. This isn’t the 1800s Wild West. It’s frustrating, I know, because it feels like the bad guys get away with everything nowadays. But taking the law into one’s own hands is not the answer. Not in a case like this, anyway.
Anyway, hope you take these comments in the spirit they were meant in–for the highest good. You may not agree with me, and that’s fine. I just had to say something. Peace to all.
Lilah- I have not covered this case as you point out, but I have to say I sincerely appreciate your respectful opinion.
ATG is my benchmark also.
B
Word Girl
There are always back stories to any event. If I had a 6’2″ teenager walking through my neighborhood with a hoodie over his head he would get all the scrutiny that Mr. Zimmerman gave him. I probably would NOT call 911. However, I would have approached Trevon and inquired as to his ID and where he was going or where he had been.
The next move is then up to Trevon. He could politely answer the questions or he could decide to run, in which case I would call 911. Or, Trevon could do exactly what he did and attack Mr. Zimmerman. At the point of attack you are then forced to make a split-second decision as to how you will handle it.
You say Trevon was profiled and I agree with you. He was profiled because he was walking with the hoodie up over his head providing concealment, Mr. Zimmerman at that time did not know his skin color or his race.
You, as a citizen of Florida or any other state, have the right to decide ,if you are assaulted by another, the way you are going to resolve the altercation. Mr. Zimmerman chose to use deadly force to end the assault. We were not there nor could we know what Mr. Zimmerman was thinking.
Blink, have you been looking into the Sierra Lamar disappearance?
@twinkle
Yes. Privately engaged and for now cannot comment.
My prayers are with Sierra and her family.
B
Blink,..its Friday
. I have been checking daily for the three updates. Still coming?
Monday and Tuesday with a radio interview Tuesday evening.
Kids Spring Break and Powell Case alone was 800 new docs- I appreciate you checking Starsky.
B
ATG-i completely agree with you in regards to the Trayvon case. Thank you for presenting your opinion in such an eloquent way as I have been trying to find the right words to state my opinion on that case but I was fearful I would be completely bashed by people. I wonder if his attorney will ask for a judge to decide instead of a jury?
Sunshine, I’m glad you spoke up. And I thank blink for allowing discourse. A great thing about this blog is respect shown. Lilah did a great job expressing disagreement.
I always wish I could be Switzerland (Mom 3.0).
ATG, I live in a suburban town on the West coast, fairly near a high school. On any day or night at 61 degrees, I can see many teenagers with hoods up, especially if it is raining.
If an elderly man politely asked my hooded 6’4″ son for ID and explanation of his whereabouts, I’d tell h to get away from him as fast and directly as possible, without any answers. I’m sure Gavin deBecker would agree.
Lilah
Thanks for you post and your opinion one that I would defend with the last breath I take. However, with experience in a neighborhood of upper middle class people where we were forced to have first a neighborhood watch and then hire a county sheriff for 24 hour patrol in order to protect our property, I out of necessity was forced to learn to suspect anyone that was in the neighborhood that didn’t seem to fit.
I have stopped plenty of people that I thought did not belong and held a conversation with them. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this. Yes, many times I was carrying a weapon, but those I spoke with never knew it nor would I threaten anyone.
Please read the last paragraph I posted to Word Girl. I don’t think any of us have factual information as to the reason or sequence of events.
Here is a thoughtful article about the Zimmerman-Martin case. I only wish the author would have explained that we US citizens don’t need to carry ID or identify ourselves to anyone but a peace officer and certainly not to an person following us who has not identified himself. We don’t need to provide ID, nor start running, when asked to identify ourselves. However, I never leave home without it.
http://nucleargrrl.com/2012/03/24/racism-didnt-kill-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-did/
Blink – it’s obvious you work extremely hard to be the voice for so many victims. While we all anticipate your next article, informational comments, your words, or rather “nuggets” of wisdom, so we are checking in here throughout every day. I personally believe we all know you try to keep us updated as much as you can.
I think I can speak for the majority here and say we are willing to wait. Your hours of investigation, fact checking and double checking put in prior to releasing an article would baffle most I’m sure. I know when I’ve been waiting anxiously for a particular update or promised article, I’ve never been disappointed. Actually, more often than not, I’m amazed at what you put together for us.
You impress me most by your ability to keep the case sensitive knowledge you have confidential. Many bloggers don’t have that self control. Blink, you should be commended for that…often.
800 pages????? That seems almost ludacris, but I’m sure it’s not the first time. Thank you!! Thank you!! THANK YOU!!!!!
While these cases are all of interest to me, right now, I’m praying to hear if LE is continuing to make progress in solving Jennifer Kesse’s case as well.
Again, many thanks for all you do for those in need…still, I pray you take care of you and your family first!
Thank you so
B
Thanks for the link Word Girl
The article delves into some things the writer believes to be true. I don’t know what her experience with peoples of other cultures has been.
I have had black friends and playmates while growing up in the South prior to desegregation. It is not the color of one’s skin that is important. It is simply your attitude about someone’s behavior. Bad behavior will get you in trouble no matter who you are.
One never knows just how young people will behave. In my previous post I talked about a subdivision I lived in thirty years ago. I had no white hair and mine didn’t turn until I was past sixty-five. People in Texas do not go around waving a pistol in the air when things don’t go like they believe they should. An old west sterotype apparently still is extant in some quarters.
That subdivision was made up of professional people that were white, black, yellow and brown. Properties in that subdivision were in the price range of two hundred to three hundred thousand dollars. They would be worth twice that today.
There was a black family who lived across the street and down the block a ways. They had two teenage sons. One afternoon we observed the sheriff make an arrest of the oldest boy. He had followed a woman from a grocery store to her home in a nearby subdivision. He assaulted her in her driveway and draged her into the dwelling and proceeded to rape her for over two hours. He was seventeen.
His parents were good people. None of us could figure out why this took place. He had a good home with caring parents. They spent everything they had trying to defend this child. In the end, he was convicted and given life without parole.
We will probably never find the real reason for the altercation in Florida. This is going to take a while to resolve. If Mr. Zimmerman initiated the assault and it is provable, then he needs to go to prison. If Trayvon decided that Mr. Zimmerman was impinging on his freedom and personal space and he would make him pay with a “beatdown” then Trayvon made a serious mistake and he paid for it with his life.
Sorry for the post, B. It was offside, as a ref would call it in hockey.
Take care of you! XO
Blink,
Hello, I hope you dont mind me sharing my thoughts and perspective on The Trayvon Martin/Zimmermann case-
I appreciate all of your perspectives.
I hope you will take the time to read through my perspective as I think it is a shame hat The media and others in this case are trying their best to further the expanse of the divide for all Americans who really in truth- agree on so much more than they realize.
If we allow them to, they will turn us against one another, against the truth and against justice- its easy – when they can tap into fear-
Dont allow them to use us in this manner- to further an agenda- any agenda
-We are all in this world together.
We all want the same things for our children our loved ones, our communities and our country.
We want responsibility,
We want accountability
We want our laws to work for all of us equally
We all want, or should want everyone- regardless of age, wealth, size, gender, race, or orientation -sexual, political or religious to be safe in our neighborhoods, in our towns-
Accidents happen- bad things happen to good people -Mistakes happen
Poor judgment- by good people can lead to the worst outcomes despite the best of intentions….
But once the worst Has happened ( a death, an accident, a murder ect)- we have a system in place that is there to uphold our laws, our rights, our safety.
A thorough investigation needs to take place- and not just in the media- regardless of whatever first impressions the responding officers had- a young man was dead-
Since when is it okay to just decide there was no wrong doing before an investigation has even concluded or started for that matter?
-
How can there be justice if there is no investigation-
How can there be a victim if it is not clear who was victimized?
How can there be answers if none is asking the questions?
A young man is dead. How, why? Was it self defense? Was it an accident? Was it murder?
Poor Judgment and fear led to this tragedy.
Our fear and a rush to judgment can only compound this tragedy.
For just a minute step back and think-
Our system is set up with a series of checks and balances to safeguard all from harm and to prevent us from taking the law into our own hands.
We all want safe neighborhoods
We all want to be safe- we all want to protect our loved ones and our belongings and ourselves.
We want to be proactive- and helpful.
We do our best to ensure our safety and that of our family, friends and neighbors.
George Zimmerman did nothing wrong when he helped to form a neighborhood watch.
George Zimmerman did nothing wrong when he became the head of his neighborhood watch group.
George Zimmerman did nothing wrong in taking his position seriously.
Could it have all lead to his taking it too seriously?IDK
George Zimmerman did nothing wrong In calling and reporting to law-enforcement his concerns.
George Zimmerman was an adult. He was frightened and called 911 to alert LE to the suspicious individual in his neighborhood He did the right thing.
Despite being an adult and carrying a loaded gun- George was afraid of the unknown 6’2 man in the hoodie.
Both were scared- there is nothing wrong with a healthy dose of fear it keeps us safe and alert-
but when fear leads to poor decisions and killing then we all need to take an accounting.
Trayvon did nothing wrong when he ventured out to the convenience store that night.
He was sixteen years old and felt comfortable and safe in the gated community-
Trayvon did nothing wrong in deciding to wear a hoodie- nor did he do anything wrong in deciding to wear the hoodie over his head-
Despite being 6’2 he was a 16 year old kid-
He was frightened by the stranger, a man, following him throughout the streets of his family’s gated community- It doesnt matter if George was shorter or smaller than him- Trayvon was just a kid still frightened by the stranger following him.
Trayvon used poor judgment when he decided to confront the man- which led to a physical altercation. He did not kill him, he did not beat him senseless.
Was this because George Zimmerman protected himself via a gun? IDK perhaps- but we will never know the whole truth until an appropriate investigation takes place.
George was an adult who was afraid- and he used poor judgment when disregarding the 911 operators directives. Was he justified in using lethal force to shoot and kill Trayvon a tall physically fit 16 year old? IDK without an investigation and trial how can we know?
George Zimmerman had a right to be patrolling the neighborhood that night.
George Zimmerman had a right and a duty to alert LE to any suspicious persons or behavior.
George Zimmerman was listening to his gift of fear- he called 911- He thought Trayvon was a bad guy doing something bad- he wanted to help catch and stop a bad guy-
He was right to do that- he was wrong to take it any further- he was wrong Trayvon was not a bad guy-
George Zimmerman had a right to protect himself- He had a right to carry a gun – but who can say what happened exactly without an investigation/trial? Would George have needed protecting from Trayvon if he himself did not pose a threat by following the lone 16 year old?
Trayvon had a right to be walking in that neighborhood that night.
Trayvon was listening to his gift of fear- he was being followed- he had a right to protect himself.
Should he have called 911 ? Yes
Would it have stopped the tragedy from happening ? IDK
Should he have tried to protect himself from the man following him? Yes- We teach our children to never talk to strangers to scream to fight- Was Trayvon following these long held “rules”? He may have been 6’2 but he was a 16 year old….Should he have run instead? Would this have led to his being safe? perhaps- perhaps it would have only incited George further in his pursuit…
Trayvons age, his fear, his pride and his poor judgment should not have led to his untimely death at the end of a gun from a well meaning citizen
George Zimmerman should not have been following any suspicious individual. He should not have took it upon himself to investigate or interrogate anyone – he should not have took the law in his own hands
Just because he was appointed as head of the neighborhood watch ass. does not mean he is an LEO- Georges fear, his pride, his poor judgment should not have resulted in the shooting of a 16 year old kid.
We call it our gift of fear- but in this situation it seems to be a curse.
AJMO
My prayers to the families and to the communities-
Peace to all
I do not, although this is a rare O/T situation of a case I am not covering to date, this thread announcing upcoming features by regular contributors to BOC is fine for the conversation.
My apologies to all that I cannot cover ever case i would like, as this is absolutely a critical one.
B
Thanks Blink-
I appreciate the go ahead-
I know you would like to cover them all – I understand there is not enough time or cyber space for that matter…Keep up the good fight Blink- we know you are doing your best.
___
TGF,
Hi-
You gave me much to think about and I hope my response to some of your thoughts will give you much to think about too-
With the utmost kindness and respect I offer you my perspective to weigh as you see fit-
TGF,
You wrote in part:
IMO Mr. Zimmerman as a security captain for his subdivision was doing the right thing in trying to find out what Trevon Martin was doing in his community.
++
TGF- George Zimmermann was putting himself in harms way by trying to do the job of LEO-
It is not the job of mere citizens, even those who hold the highest title in the neighborhood watch groups to take it upon themselves to investigate and or question or interrogate or follow any person whether they feel they are suspicious or not.
Even if George felt justified in this course of action does not make it right-
It doesnt matter if he was the head of the NW or not- TGF he was wrong and kid paid with his life over nothing more than a misunderstanding based on mistaken fear.
You wrote:
Trevon, while wearing a hoodie in the warm Florida climate, invited scrutiny. Many, many crimes are committed by persons wearing a hoodie. Anytime I see such behavior, wearing a hoodie, they will get scrutiny from me.
++
TGF, you know I respect you- but whether or not a person is wearing a hoody or baggy pants or a wife beater or a concert shirt or a tube top, or a a Burqa should not invite an armed man – to pursue them based on a mistaken belief that they are suspicious and possibly up to no good-.
As to whether or not young Trayvon invited “scrutiny” by wearing a hoodie is neither here nor there- BTW it rains in Florida too, perhaps Trayvon was wearing the hoody just in case…. George Zimmerman alerted LE to a person he felt needed further scrutiny by LEO- after calling, he should have “stepped off”-
Each life unharmed, no misunderstandings leading to violence of any sort.
You wrote:
Trevon actually attacked Mr. Zimmerman as reported by the EMS people. They cleaned up most of the damage prior to taking him to the police station. This day and age, when you attack someone you take the chance that they may be armed and you could loose yourlife.
++
TGF- – you seem to be forgetting why Trayvon would “attack” this man.
This man was following him, scaring him- according to most accounts he thought of Trayvon as a “punk” a hoodlum, why? because of his hooded jacket?
He was a kid- according to most accounts, he tried to get away from him to no avail-
What if Trayvon turned out to be another adult NW member, who had his own gun- what if this other member pulled the gun on George?
What constitutes an attack vs self protection?
“Scutiny” TGF- does not mean trailing anyone with a loaded gun –
By your account, George did not see his face- so could not “profile” him due to race or other…-
HMM, then it seems Zimmerman couldnt possibly know whether he was following one of his own neighbors or perhaps an undercover LEO- or a 32 year old man with Down syndrome who may have been deaf-….he just didnt know, right? So George Zimmerman felt this individual- unseen was suspicious since he was walking alone at night, while wearing a hoody?
This unseen individual was enough of a neighborhood threat that George Zimmerman felt justified in stalking him despite being told to let police handle it?
George Zimmerman head of the neighborhood watch, carrying a loaded gun was a tragedy waiting to happen.
You wrote:
Texas and Florida have similar laws on the books about the use of deadly force when protecting yourself and your property.
++
TGF- correct- but wasnt Trayvon protecting himself? For all you know Trayvon may have thought George was trying to kidnap him or mug him… the only difference is Trayvon tried to protect himself with his fists not a loaded gun.
You hold self protection in high regards- yet you are so sure that George was in the right and Trayvon in the wrong, how can that be ?
You wrote:
I hope the appointed special prosecutor will do the right thing and close this case without charges.
++
TGF- I dont know whether or not George killed in self defense or not- but Trayvon is dead because he confronted the man who was following him- the man George thought he was suspicious- and if wearing a hoody is all it takes along with height and weight, and possibly skin color, then sadly there are going to be alot more killings based upon fear and poor judgment- especially if everyone feels justified in protecting themselves by using a gun and it matters not if people die because of a misunderstanding brought on by misplaced fear and a propensity to take the law in their own hands
You wrote:
Political pressure is being applied from the WH to the local level.
++
TGF- I disagree- there are many ordinary everyday citizens calling for a complete investigation and trial-
To say this is politically motivated is just buying into the BS of the media which you seem to realize is BS-
The family wants answers- to politicize this is not helpful anymore than chalking it all up to a clear case of racial hate is not helpful-
You wrote:
Trevon was not tweleve or thirteen years old as depicted in the early photos in the media.
He was seventeen and stood 6’2″, larger than Mr. Zimmerman.
++
Youre right TGF- but George Zimmerman couldnt know what age Trayvon was- or what, if any threat he imposed- George was the head of his NWA and he was aware of what was the best course of action- and if not- he was informed on what to do by 911-
Yet, he went on about this sad course of action which led a scared albeit, tall and physically fit teen to react in fear- Fight or flight—
Flight or fight…a choice that young Trayvon made, which led Zimmerman to act in fear – and shoot and kill this unarmed kid-
A young man whose only offense was to spike Zimmerman’s “suspicious” meter…
for whatever reason-
Sad-
You wrote:
There are always back stories to any event.
+++
Yes there are- and unfortunately we are not privy to Trayvons version of events -as his voice was silenced forever- perhaps if he was not killed he would have confessed to making the wrong choice IRT Flight or fight… perhaps he would have confessed to overreacting and hitting George- we will never know- especially if this never goes to trial… still a 16 or 17 year olds overreaction which resulted in blood, and bumps and bruises is far less severe than a hole in the chest and death, as result of an adults overreaction is it not?
You wrote:
If I had a 6’2″ teenager walking through my neighborhood with a hoodie over his head he would get all the scrutiny that Mr. Zimmerman gave him. I probably would NOT call 911. However, I would have approached Trevon and inquired as to his ID and where he was going or where he had been.
+++
TGF- you keep equating George Zimmermans actions as further “scrutiny” justified by the teens height and hat-
First- Georges actions far exceed just “scrutiny” –
Second- if you encountered a suspicious male 6’2 wearing a hoody- and were concerned why wouldnt you alert 911 why would you put yourself in danger and the unidentified male in danger and any bystanders in danger by confronting him and interrogating him?
TGF there are terrible lessons to learn from this sad case.
We must not be prisoners to fear- we are not here on Earth to stand in Judgment of fellow human beings simply taking a walk- no matter their attire… these persons do not owe us an explanation for taking a walk in the dark-
If we are alarmed by an unknown person who peeks our hinky meter- for our safety, for their safety- the best course of action is to call the non-emergency LE # and report them-
Third- TGF most teens do not carry ID- and most teens do not and should not present their identification to anyone other than LEO- for their own protection-
TGF it is none of your business where this person you think deserves scrutiny has been or where they are going or why-
and it wouldnt be your business even if you were the head of your neighborhood watch group either-
Trayvon did not owe any explanation to George- and regardless of how suspicious George felt Trayvon was- it wasnt his job to engage in any way-
There is a reason why these matters are best handled by well trained LEO
My goodness this was a neighborhood which Trayvon had a right to be in…this isnt about turf or a bridge in which the troll decides who crosses and who doesnt….
If there is a concern about a “stranger” alert LE- to do anything more is just wrong and unsafe for everyone, for LE for the neighbors for you and the stranger- especially when a gun is in play.
You wrote:
The next move is then up to Trevon. He could politely answer the questions or he could decide to run, in which case I would call 911.
+++
TGF 16- 17 year olds do not always make the best decisions having said that,
What if this teen has a potty mouth TGF? And begins to egg on the situation…. what if he got in the face of a hot tempered adult male who felt justified in protecting himself and his neighborhood what if this adult did not have your wisdom and patience??
What if this adult did not listen to directives and safeguards? – would the next course of action be to “protect himself” with that gun instead of running or calling 911-? Afterall he was bigger than him and was hiding his face, wearing a hoody, and could beat him up….and was in his neighborhood acting “suspiciously”
You went on to write:
Bad behavior will get you in trouble no matter who you are.
I agree TGF- you are so right- exactly what bad behavior got Trayvon in trouble and what about George?
Thanks for making me think TGF I hope I did the same for you.
Peace to you my wise and kind friend
AJMO
Mom 3.0 you are such a gem. TGF I have nothing but respect for you and would love to have you as my Grandfather. Both of you make us think about all sides of human behavior. Both of you want our world to be a better place. Mom you hit the nail on the head with your insight regarding Media. You made a home run in speaking about the fear that both George and Trevon must have felt. I pray that race was not an issue in this mess. The saddest part is that a 16 year old boy lost his life and an adult man has to live with that fact. Who was wrong, probably both. Hopefully we will learn something from this. You can not make a decision on what is reported in the media, but then again if not for the media an investigation would probably not been done.
Thanks for your input Mom3.0 and yours too Ode.
Having been in just such a position as Mr. Zimmerman regarding a neighborhood watch, I can tell you from experience that there is a proper way to approach anyone without making it a confrontation. Our watch was given training by sheriff’s officers. This was way before there were cell phones. We did have walki-talki radios with limited range.
Yes, I meant every word about hoodies and concealment. When you are faced with as many as six break-ins in a week, you do not allow anyone that apears to be in the subdivision without reason to have a free pass.
My little five foot two wife sometimes worked the day patrol in her car. One day she watched a black kid break into a closed garage and steal two bicycles. He rode one and pulled the other. She followed him in her car and reported to the base station about the theft. They called the sheriff’s office. Women were trained to never approach anyone, but to observe and report.
We now have a well thought out opinion from the woman’s prospective and that of a no nonsense man with some actual experience with such a situation. Both have merit.
Maybe someday soon we will have enough actual facts to understand what really took place.
Dear Ode,
Thank you very much for your kind remarks.
I too hope this wasnt about race.
We have neighborhood watch groups because we want to have safe neighborhoods- we want for our children to be safe walking to the neighborhood store for candy and a drink- Trayvon’s Dad wanted the same things-
and it was his neighborhood watchmen, George Zimmerman, who made this neighborhoodhood not a safe place for his son- infact it killed him.
Trayvon had a sweet tooth, he went to the 7-11 and bought an Arizonia iced tea and a bag of Skittles- –
He did not venture out without his jacket- we as parents remind our children to dress for the weather- heck we teach them to take their jackets “just in case”- IT WAS RAINING
-
Trayvon had his phone- we teach our children to always have their phone- and we teach them, to run away from strangers- to scream, to fight when necessary-
Trayvon Martin had money- he BOUGHT the candy and tea- we teach our children to carry money
Trayvon Martin did not venture out close to curfew -
Trayvon left his home with money to buy candy, dressed for the weather, with his phone and was back “safely” in his dads neighborhood by 7:00pm- He was so close to home, yet so far away
Trayvon hadn’t made it very far, at all into the neighborhood when George spotted him and made the 911 call sitting in his dark SUV-
Snipped call-
Zimmerman-
We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.
This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about.
911 dispatcher:
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman:
He looks black.
911 dispatcher:
Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring.
911 dispatcher:
He’s just walking around the area, the houses?
Zimmerman:
Now he’s staring at me.
911 dispatcher:
OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Zimmerman:
That’s the clubhouse.
911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.
911 dispatcher:
How old would you say he is?
Zimmerman: He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens
911 dispatcher:
Late teens?
Zimmerman:
Uh, huh Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.
He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is.
911 dispatcher:
Let me know if he does anything, OK?
Zimmerman:
OK.
911 dispatcher:
We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.
911 dispatcher:
OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?
Zimmerman:
Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.
He’s running. [2:08]
911 dispatcher:
He’s running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman:
Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood.
911 dispatcher:
OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?
Zimmerman:
The back entrance.
911 dispatcher:
Are you following him?
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that.
-
911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? 2:34
Zimmerman:
George. He ran.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, what’s your last name?
Zimmerman:
Zimmerman.
911 dispatcher:
What’s the phone number you’re calling from?
Zimmerman:
407***-****
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman:
Yeah.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, where are you going to meet with them at? \
Zimmerman:
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. 3:10
911 dispatcher:
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? 3:21
Zimmerman:
Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address.
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, yeah, I live here.
911 dispatcher:
OK, what’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman:
It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman:
Yeah, that’s fine.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …
Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]
911 dispatcher:
OK, that’s no problem.
Zimmerman:
My number … you’ve got it?
911 dispatcher:
Yeah, I’ve got it. (confirms #)
Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.
OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]
Zimmerman:
Thanks.
911 dispatcher:
You’re welcome.
Call ends 4:07
–
In this initial call, George does not seem scared, He seems mad- perturbed- and he seems to want to make sure this “real suspicious” “punk” “asshole” does not get away- He describes Trayvon he never says his face is “concealed” by a hoody- he says the guy is acting like he is on drugs….What? He is walking, looking at houses…okay.. most people do not walk thru a neighborhood, even their own without looking at the houses… so what exactly placed this “kid” which George does acknowledge that Trayvon is a kid- in the “real suspicious” “asshole”, “punk” category- and what gave him the right to assume that this young man was part of a group that always “got away”?
Please keep in mind Trayvon was a teen 17- and was aware of a man, a stranger, eyeing him up…talking on a cell, from a dark SUV- This man, was following him, this man frightened him and he ran away from the man-
Any kid would do the same.
What gave George Zimmerman the right to chase after Trayvon-?
If my teen, any teen, would have found themselves in the same situation they too would have ran- and IF this stranger, chased after them, and caught up to them- what choice would a teen in the midst of “flight or fight” have but to defend himself from the man who is stalking him?
George never identified himself to the 911 operator as a neighborhood watch head- when he couldnt, or wouldnt supply an address, the operator, asked him if he lived there…Trayvon did not get the same courtesy- George never identified himself to Trayvon before he took it upon himself to chase him down
George Zimmerman was not a policeman- -
If his record had not been expunged- he would have never been allowed to carry a concealed weapon-
He did not seem frightened by Trayvon- he claimed he was suspicious, but I can not see why… he held the power a gun- he had protection the gun along with the assurance from 911 that officers were on their way- and the LEO had Trayvon- “on the wire”
What power did Trayvon have? What protection? What assurance?
A stranger- a man in a dark SUV was chasing him- THAT is suspicious and scary-
Trayvon Martin could have easily been one of our own children alone, on a walk back thru a nieghborhood from a candy run … confronted by a man- with a gun, from a dark unmarked SUV -wearing no uniform- stating no reason for chasing them-
Since when do our children regardless of their height or skin color, or mindful appropriate weather related dress- need to fear death by the neighborhood watch?
AJMO
Hi TGF,
Yes I have no doubt that you and your wife followed protocol while volunteering for your neighborhood watch detail. i am glad that you were given appropriate training from LEO- and I am glad that you followed the training-
Can the same be said for George Zimmerman?
TGF- George Zimmerman described the shirt Trayvon was wearing- he was close enough, while on the 911 call to see his shirt- he knew the color of his shin- he knew he was a teen- He never once during that phone call made any attempt to speak with Trayvon-
a simple Hello, sir I am the head of the local neighborhood watch, and I havent seen you around here before, i am speaking to an officer now, if you wouldnt mind could you tell me what home you are tryng to get to- and I will assist you on finding it- or perhaps I could have the officer call home for you, to get a ride since it is raining?
Instead george Zimmerman did not identify himself to this “kid” and he did not do so for the dispatcher either- and he claims trayvon was “staring” at HIM- if anyone was staring it would have to be george as he described the shoes and cloths etc…
He never told the 911 operator that he was armed he never told why he thought Trayvon was suspicious, why he though he was on drugs- NOTHING-
All he said is we have had breakins and this “real suspicious guy”
is walking looking at houses/…
He was wearing a jacket with a hood WHILE it was raining- HOW does that equate to suspicious behavior?
TGF- you wrote-
“Yes, I meant every word about hoodies and concealment. When you are faced with as many as six break-ins in a week, you do not allow anyone that apears to be in the subdivision without reason to have a free pass.”
–
Again Trayvon was wearing a jacket it was raining- thats suspicious? A strange man was eyeing this seventeen year old boy up- Can you blame the kid for trying to hide and become less noticeable from the strange man?
I dont care how many breakins there were TGF- Trayvon was not a thief- he gave NO indication of being a thief- … he wasnt dressed as a cat burglar- he wasnt in a van full of stolen goods- he was a kid on his way back from a candy run- PERIOD-
According to what you wrote,You shouldnt allow anyone who “appears” like they dont belong in the subdivision a free pass? HUH? What made George Zimmerman ASSUME that Trayvon Martin did not “belong” in the subdivision, TGF? Besides- it is a proven fact that this assumption was proven wrong as poor Trayvon had every right to be there His Father lived there-
Having said that, you could be right- it is always best to err on the side of caution – when in doubt alert authorities…and if so George Zimmerman DID NOT GIVE HIM A FREE PASS- he called 911…
THE LEO were on their way -they sadly arrived one minute after Trayvon was shot dead-
IF George Zimmerman had followed protocol Trayvon would be alive-
and thats the truth TGF
You wrote:
Maybe someday soon we will have enough actual facts to understand what really took place.
I agree and I am glad you feel this way too, you have come a long way from your earlier statement of:
“I hope the appointed special prosecutor will do the right thing and close this case without charges.”
–AJMO
Peace to you again TGF-
My apologies but the earlier snippet from the 911 call- does not have this info-
Not sure how that happened
but here is the missing part:
911 dispatcher:
How old would you say he is?
Zimmerman:He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.
911 dispatcher:
Late teens?
Zimmerman:
Uh, huh.
Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.
He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. (1:20)
911 dispatcher:
Let me know if he does anything, OK?
Zimmerman:
OK. .>
911 dispatcher:
We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman:
OK.
These assholes. They always get away.
When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.
911 dispatcher:
OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?
Zimmerman:
Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.
He’s running. (2:08)
911 dispatcher:
He’s running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman:
Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]
911 dispatcher:
OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?
Zimmerman:
The back entrance.
911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? (2:24)
Zimmerman:
Yeah. (2:25)
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. (2:26)
Zimmerman:
OK.
—
According to phone records Trayvons g- friend called him again at 7:12
She told him to run from the guy who was following him-
she heard a “scuffle” until the line went dead. Her four-minute call ended at 7:16.
Remember according to George’s 911 call:
At 7:13, two minutes into Zimmerman’s call, he tells the police operator: “S***, he’s running.”
A beeping sound of a car door opening is heard. George was chasing Trayvon then George is heard out of breath, muttering profanities.
“Are you following him?” the operator asked.
“Yeah.”
“Ok, we don’t need you to do that.”
George then cont with the call he spoke for app. two more minutes offering directions to the dispatcher. He said he’d meet police by the mailboxes and then, just before hanging up, he interrrupts the operator, and says instead:
“Actually, could you have him call me, and I’ll tell him where I’m at?”. At 7:15, he hung up.
then
Police arrive
The police arrived at 7:17. Trayvon was lying dead.
AJMO
I think George Zimmerman had good intentions from the start, in calling 911, in persuing Treyvon, in protecting his neighborhood. Sadly, he already in his mind figured Treyvon was the guilty party in the break-ins. He made a terrible mistake I’m sure he regrets. I don’t know what the right answer is in handling this case, but feel certain George Zimmerman meant no harm to an innocent child. This is one of those head scratchers that everyone wishes had played out differently. George Zimmerman should be penalized for his mistake by a sentence of serving the public in studying “profiling” awareness and learning how to teach neighborhood watch groups. He could then be sentenced to teach others to make the phone calls to 911 and authorities, and reinforcing the importance of allowing the police to handle situations such as this.
This way, more good can come of this horrible situation than bad. I don’t mean to belittle the death of a promising young man in any way, but we should always try to make something good come from tragedys as this one. It would honor Treyvon’s memory and force persons to take a good evalutation before being faced with this type of situation with: “What Would You DO?”
For sure…this message could save an innocent life. Furthermore, there is always room for more acceptance in our world and I feel George Zimmerman could be a great spokesperson (with experience) to convey that message.
We have now learned that Trayvon was on a forced leave from his school for ten days due to an anger management problem and his lack of proper respect for authority.
There is also information appearing on some blog sites that Trayvon was arrested several days prior regarding theft of jewelry. This may have zero basis in fact. We will have to wait for this to be proven.
This young man apparently had some problems behaving himself. Although our legal system does not recognize adulthood to begin until age 18, age seventeen people need to be behaving in an adult manner.
Mom3.0
The problem with this whole issue is lack of proper training for Mr. Zimmerman in approaching a person that he is suspicious of. If it were done in a proper manner the chances are that none of this would have happened.
In addition, Trayvon ran away and then decided to attack Mr. Zimmerman
if the 911 tapes are actually correct. We will have to wait for additional clarification. It also appears that the entire indictment of Mr. Zimmerman is based just on information from Trayvon’s girlfriend.
Alan Derskowitz in his position as a professor of law is saying this indictment will never pass the required test for evidence in a court.
SouthernMom
The only real good that may come from this case is that maybe the State of Florida will take a hard look at how the neighborhood watch programs function and how they are trained. Florida should have standard proceedures for interaction with individuals and reporting to LE. In Texas, neighborhood watch programs do not report via 911. They have a local PD or Sheriff’s number to call.
I cannot say this gently. Mom’s out there, in this man’s eyes a seventeen year old is Not a kid. He is quite capable of doing everything an adult can do. At the turn of the 20th century, sixteen year olds were considered adults. If we keep sliding back the age of responsilility we will soon reach thirty.
I want to remind you of the seventeen year old that shot and killed Eve Carson after abducting her at gunpoint in North Carolina. She was not his first victim. He also killed another student, at age sixteen, that was from India. Because of a North Carolina law, a seventeen year old could not be tried as an adult in a murder case with capitol punishment.
Fervently waiting for more articles and details…I don’t think this is a good site for me right now, so I will sit back and send eager, energy beams Blink’s way!
During my years in Corrections, I have worked amid scores of young people from all walks of life. When I worked ‘the line’, I used to request working with the kids so I could make sure they were kept busy at least during my shift. I would get out all the cleaning supplies, and have a few of them at a time come out of their cells and clean certain areas of their living quarters. When that group was finished, I would send them back to their cells, and let another small group out to clean another area and so on and so forth. Believe it or not, they loved it and they got to feel proud that they accomplished something – even if only for a shift. I spent many a shift with them and I had more patience for them than most of my co-workers. I guess you could say I found much good where others didn’t have the patience to look. Yes, some of them were cut throat killers and they had to be handled differently, but they could still be supervised to clean their own cells without mingling with the other, more vulnerable kids. Running their dorm wasn’t always a walk in the park, but I learned a lot about the young male culture.
When I first heard about the Trayvon Martin case, my first thought was that Zimmerman was a wanna-be cop who hunted down an innocent young man. I’ve known a lot of wanna-be cops and it’s a dangerous mind-set. To make a long story short, I’m sure to any trained law enforcement officer, Trayvon’s demeanor that day was not threatening. He was talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone and he was eating and carrying candy and a drink. He was alone and walking back to his dad’s house. No cop would have even stopped Trayvon as his body language was that of any other kid just walking along. Kids that age are more of a threat if they’re in a group. That wasn’t the case.
Zimmerman was an amateur in so many ways. He didn’t have the skills to go along with the responsibility of watching over people who lived in the condo complex. He was the threat because he was carrying a gun, and he had grandiose ideas that he was “something” of a lawman with little or no training. He didn’t have years on the job to confront a stranger and be safe himself. He ignored the guidelines of the NHW rules and regulations because he pursued Trayvon physically. He killed a young man whose father lives in the complex because he didn’t ‘read’ the situation right. He disobeyed instructions to let police handle the ‘suspect’ because of his dangerous mind-set. He wanted to be a hero of some sort, and his actions caused the death of another human being. He made decisions that he was NOT qualified to make and he didn’t let the pros do their job. The NHW rules and regs are designed to protect those on duty as well as those who are suspect. Zimmerman was a wild gun making up his own rules. The result was the unnecessary death of one of our young who went out to buy Skittles and Iced Tea.
It could have been any of our kids or grandkids. Zimmerman wasn’t trained nor authorized to go as far as he did that day. He pushed the envelope and made his own rules and ignored the protocol. He violated a lot of rules that day and Trayvon paid the price.
You are 100% right. I am not writing on this case because I am of the firm belief that this case is NOT RACIAL. It is many things, but I promise you, there is no set of circumstances where racial profiling is in play.
Wrong and criminal is wrong and criminal, there are no colors.
Mr. Zimmerman has many things to be accountable for. And imo he will be.
FTLOG, it is a neighborhood watch, not Swat.
Why is it when folks put a racial label on it- it is not good enough to be tried in a court of law?
God rest your soul Trayvon.
Word Girl,
I hope you have not took offense to anything I have written.
I know you complimented me earlier, by calling me Switzerland- it meant alot to me- and I hope I have not let you down. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this heart wrenching case.
Sue, excellent post- thank you for sharing your insights and experiences- much appreciated.
Blink -thank you for sharing your thoughts as well- I am glad you voiced them loud and clear-
Southern Mom- you are kind hearted soul- thanks for weighing in
I have to agree with Sue here, I think George had a major case of a wanna be cop-
I think his actions were driven by his need to live out his dream of being a cop.
He may have had good intentions when he called 911- but when he didnt heed the dispatchers directives all good intentions flew out the window- I have no doubt that he regrets killing an innocent young man –
But nothing after the call the chasing the catching- the killing- had anything to do with “protecting” his neighborhood
Im sorry, Southern Mom, but this is not a childs hockey game where an overly aggressive player gets sent to the penalty box-
This wasnt just a “mistake” a kid is dead- George KILLED an INNOCENT barely 17YEAROLD boy
His “penalty” should not be to “study” profiling awareness and then teach neighborhood watch groups.
That would be awarding his sick need to be in authority- to be seen as someone in power- someone who deserves respect and all eyes and ears upon him.
To me it seems as though George has no problem in disrespecting authority or protocols – He has a problem with anger management as well-
He hit a police man He threw a woman-
and as for disregarding things he has learned- he has a problem with that as well
HE WAS TAUGHT THE PROTOCALS – He chose to disregard them
snipped:
Wendy Dorival, Neighborhood Watch organizer for the Sanford Police Department told The Miami Herald she met Zimmerman in September 2011 at a community neighborhood watch presentation. Dorival stated she gave a warning in regard to vigilante behavior at that meeting:
“I said, ‘If it’s someone you don’t recognize, call us. We’ll figure it out. Observe from a safe location.’ There’s even a slide about not being vigilante police. I don’t know how many more times I can repeat it.”
–
Southern Mom I agree that we must all find a way to learn the lessons but George Zimmerman shouldnt be awarded the position of teaching them–at the very least he should never be allowed to carry a weapon ever again- nor should he be allowed in any position which is authoritative in any way- no more bouncer jobs -no more volunteering for neighborhood watches etc -and he should take anger management classes as well- as for what his sentence should be for taking a human life- I can not say- as I do not know all of the facts nor am I on the jury.
Peace
AJMO
Dear TGF,
With much respect I have to tell you I am shocked by your latest post.
TGF, you seem to be trying to justify George Zimmermans actions by attacking the character of the victim-
Please stop TGF and think – this is not right-
you know that this isnt right.
You were one of the strongest advocates for Chris George, – when Blink covered the story-
You never lessened his victimhood by questioning whether or not he was a perfect upstanding citizen- You recognized that even though he was an adult who had committed criminal acts- He was no less of a human being who deserved to have justice and be mourned .
TGF please take a moment and think, you are talking about a BARELY 17 year old kid- who regardless if he was suspended from school, and regardless if at sometime in his short life he had committed a crime whether it was stealing, or smoking weed- it matters not for HE WAS INNOCENT of everything George Zimmerman feared he was guilty of-
Trayvon was WRONGLY thought to be a bad guy- he was wrongly thought to be trespassing- or up to no good- he was WRONGLY chased down and he was WRONGLY GUNNED DOWN
TGF you wrote:
The problem with this whole issue is lack of proper training for Mr. Zimmerman in approaching a person that he is suspicious of. If it were done in a proper manner the chances are that none of this would have happened.
–
TGF- George Zimmerman had proper training- He was taught NOT to engage NOT to pursue only to OBSERVE and REPORT from a SAFE distance-
Besides this training-
George Zimmerman was directed by the operator to not Follow Treyvon- He agreed with this directive when He answered with “ok”
He then told the dispatcher that he would meet the officers at the mail boxes- yet instead at the last second he decided Nope, on second thought- Ill tell em to call me and Ill let them know where I am- Why? At that moment He knew he wouldnt be at his car at the mail boxes at that second it seems George Zimmerman thought he would do one better and “pursue” the “real, suspicious, punk, asshole” all to prevent his “getting away” “always”
And he did so with a loaded weapon- For a second think why would George want LE to alert him to their arrival so he could tell them his location?? Could it be that he didnt want them to mistake him- as the “real suspicious punk asshole” roaming the streets, and mistakenly shoot or apprehend him? IDK
I do Know If George Zimmerman had followed what he was taught, and what the dispatchers directives were- none of this would have happened-
What happened TGF whether it was an accident, manslaughter, second degree murder regardless George Zimmermann is at Fault- if he had not chased down Treyvon, none of this would have happened.
You wrote-
In addition, Trayvon ran away and then decided to attack Mr. Zimmerman
if the 911 tapes are actually correct. We will have to wait for additional clarification. It also appears that the entire indictment of Mr. Zimmerman is based just on information from Trayvon’s girlfriend.
–
TGF, This BARELY 17 yearold- kid ran away from a strange man who was CHASING HIM staring at HIM – He “attacked” George in SELF DEFENSE-
TGF, You make it sound as if you actually believe Trayvon did something wrong in running- or in then fighting when he felt he had no other choice… Why when You yourself have given this same advice – I remember one instance quite well- as I took your advice to heart-
See here–You once advised:
A Texas Grandfather says:
December 15, 2010 at 9:20 pm
Christy
“I want to point out the scene on video at the Panama City school board meeting where the gunman shot at the superintendent. The female board member was allowed to leave the room, but she wanted to stop the man so she returned and tried to disarm him by hitting his gun hand with her purse.
She had a good heart, but no training in confronting an angry man. In four seconds she was on the floor with the gun pointed at her head. This guy was large about twice her weight. In an event like this, it is the same thing as two vehicles colliding with one another. It is a mass-force relationship and the big mass always wins.
If you are going to carry a knife, find some help from a professional in how to use it. The same goes for a gun.
Blink is right. The best thing to do is to run if you can.
I am going to add one more thing to your safety arsenal. When you park, scan the area for other people prior to exiting your vehicle. When you exit the store, stop just outside and scan the parking lot for people in the vicinity of your vehicle. The point is to be aware of people so that you don’t accidentally walk into a bad situation.
Stay safe ”
—
It seems Trayvon may have once had a person in his life who advised him in much the same way-
It was good advice TGF but sadly Zimmerman was hell bent on not letting him “get away” and was carrying a gun- and it seems he was not using his best judgement
Trayvon was though- he scanned his area- he was afraid- he ran- he was confronted and he stood his ground- but George took it upon himself to “justifiably shoot because he was afraid- even though he was the one that was chasing and shooting-
Tragic
Ps TGF- Trayvon Martin was a kid- and I dont care what other kids have done criminally- Trayvon had every right to be there- and regardless of his size or attire he did not deserve Zimmermans suspicion and fear, nor did he warrant his pursuit or bullet.
And by your way of thinking TGF a kid should also be allowed to carry a concealed weapon- – and we all know that isnt a good idea- even George will agree with this- for had Trayvon been allowed by law to carry a gun to stand HIS ground- George Zimmerman would sadly likely be the one dead-
Peace TGF AJMO
I want to thank Blink for allowing us to have this conversation, and I want to thank you all for talking with me and sharing your perspectives.
I would also like to offer my prayers to the families and to the community-
I leave you all with this snippet of this article which quotes Dennis Baxley , author of the Stand Your Ground law:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/15/2750993/stand-your-ground-may-yet-survive.html
Dennis Baxley is an author of one of the nation’s most notorious gun laws, Stand Your Ground.
And lately, he’s relieved.
When a special prosecutor last week charged George Zimmerman in the Feb. 26 killing of Trayvon Martin, it was a political public-relations indictment of those who said Stand Your Ground gave the shooter blanket immunity.
“I’m sort of happy about this guy being charged, on the political front, because I’m able to say: ‘See, I told you, it doesn’t say you can’t charge the guy,’ ” said Baxley, a Republican state representative from Ocala.
A person who “initially provokes the use of force” isn’t justified in responding in a deadly fashion unless he meets two criteria: If he has reason to believe he’s about to be killed or seriously wounded and if he has “exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant.”
According to the facts assembled by Corey’s office, Zimmerman looks like an aggressor. He “profiled” Trayvon, says the probable-cause arrest affidavit, which details how he pursued the teen. The document twice points out that Trayvon wasn’t committing a crime and was unarmed.
Baxley, informed of the “use of force by aggressor” statute by The Miami Herald, said “this is exactly what I have been saying. There’s nothing in here that says, ‘You’re covered to pursue, confront and provoke. And then if you get a scrap going, we’ll cover you.’ No, it doesn’t really say that.”
Peace and
Good night
AJMO
“Sue says:
April 16, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Blink replied:
“You are 100% right. I am not writing on this case because I am of the firm belief that this case is NOT RACIAL. It is many things, but I promise you, there is no set of circumstances where racial profiling is in play.
Wrong and criminal is wrong and criminal, there are no colors.
Mr. Zimmerman has many things to be accountable for. And imo he will be.
FTLOG, it is a neighborhood watch, not Swat.
Why is it when folks put a racial label on it- it is not good enough to be tried in a court of law?”
Blink, I understand that you do not think Zimmerman’s actions were motivated by race. However, do you also think there was no racial element in the initial reactions of LE to this killing? How would you convince the African-American community of that? That the decisions would have been the same if the two individuals had been switched in their roles?
I am strictly speaking of Zimmerman’s actions. I believe he would have done exactly what he did regardless of Trayvon’s race, and regardless of his own. This crime was not racially motivated in my opinion. Zimmerman was a wanna be cop who had no business in his role, no business carrying a weapon and no business following a kid and was told to stand down.
As far as the reactions of LE, I would ask exactly which reactions you are referring to and by whom specifically before I could give my opinion on them.
B
Mom 3.0,
Thanks for your note. I felt I couldn’t read here on this topic, but saw there were more comments and that Blink had weighed in, so I’m back, but just for a minute.
I am glad you cited Texas Grandfather’s post about safety around your parked vehicle–good advice that I tend to practice.
No, I felt very confused, disappointed and, yes, a little shocked at the statements ATG made, despite his personal experience with six burglaries in one week in his “neighborhood of upper middle class people” who “were forced forced to have first a neighborhood watch and then hire a county sheriff for 24 hour patrol in order to protect our property.”
ATG, I don’t know if you have law enforcement experience and have learned how to approach a suspicious person (and maybe you taught your 5’2″ wife those skills for her patrolling), but you seem to be a congenial older man who may appear harmless and approachable. Still, I would personally and teach my people to say to you, “sorry, ‘can’t talk now–byebye.” Cuz it’s not my habit to respond to someone questioning my law-abiding behavior. Period.
You have a lot of life experience at your age. You held a professional position and you have a host of other qualities you hold dear.
However, my experience has taught me things, too. It especially has taught me that I don’t know everything.
That alone, tells me that George Zimmerman thought he knew it all and could be a vigilante in his neighborhood. In the end, he murdered a child and he should be punished for that. I hope, very much, that you, A Texas Grandfather, never make the same mistake.
I would just like to say that I am proud of the way that we can be congenial and disagree with each other.
B
Word Girl
While I don’t agree with some of the arguements that Mom3.0 puts forth, she has her heart in the right place and we can respectively disagree. She or I nor any of us were actually there to observe.
After eight decades on the planet, I have learned a few things. Moms are going to be moms no matter what. It is a part of their genes. And, old grandfathers are not always right although they are by nature a lot tougher on young people than moms.
We are gradually learning a few facts that will change how we view the entire case. I just want the judicial system to do the right thing regarding Trayvon and George.
I have developed, with reason, a suspicious attitude regarding people wearing hoodies. Several of my coats have them hidden in the collar and that is where they remain. If it is raining, I wear a hat or if it is cold, I wear a Navy watch cap so my face may be seen.
We now have information that Trayvon had items in his school backpack that included women’s jewelry that seemed to have no reason to be there, some “mary jane” and tools that a burglar often carries.
George had no knowledge of this. However, it is possible that he witnessed Trayvon wandering from house to house rather than just walking towards a destination. None of this is known.
Trayvon’s father supposedly lived with his girlfriend in the complex. He was not the primary tennant. Treyvon was visiting his father and perhaps had persmission to spend a few days.
Someone made the comment that George was perhaps a wannabe cop. That is certainly possible as well. If that is the case, the neighborhood watch members should have noticed and made certain that he did not patrol alone.
And Mom3.0 reminds me of one of my dear friends whom I have known for forty years. She too likes to take the less obvious side of an issue and examine things in a meaningful way.
I just heart u.
B
Mom3.0
I just want you to know that your scene description of a proper approach is exactly the right way to do it. One is friendly and straight forward. Never confrontational.
Harris County,Texas has a no solicitation ordnance. That helped with talking to those who didn’t seem to belong. You could always ask if they were with a group going house to house. If they were, they would be told of it and asked to leave the area.
George Zimmerman is not a policeman. He did not have the authority to exercise ‘probable cause’ to search Trayvon even if he – GZ suspected Trayvon was casing the place. That is what cops do. GZ should have kept Trayvon in his sights (within reason) for his own safety, and then informed the police of Trayvon’s whereabouts when they arrived.
If Trayvon’s father was not the primary tenant in the complex then so what? No one is safe when a wanna-be-cop is on the loose pre-judging people’s intentions.
If in fact Trayvon had misc. items of jewelry in his backpack, GZ didn’t know this at the time. If police had been able to handle the situation and questioned Trayvon and then felt that probable cause dictated a search of the backpack, the police would have taken him in and questioned him. They would have called his father and Trayvon would have been charged with possible burglary. I have not heard anything about this yet, but guaranteed, Trayvon would still be alive had GZ followed proper procedure and let the police handle everything.
I find it difficult to believe that members of a NHW are ever encouraged to confront possible suspects under any circumstances. Is it not advised to call it in to the sheriff’s office or local police?
Zimmerman did, he was told to stand down, and he did not. No NHW should ever have the power to do anything but deter by the very concept, and inform LE as necessary.
B
Word Girl. thank you for acknowledging my note and I understand your frustration. Dont let it get you down- keep on keeping on.
TGF,
I too know your heart is in the right place, although we disagree on quite a few issues in this case.
You are so right, neither of us were there, so we can not possible know, and sadly we may only have to rely on George Zimmermans word for what happened, due to the poor initial investigation and for me, that is not enough to know and thereby give him a pass on his actions.
TGF, I feel the need to bring something to your attention, and I hope you will not take offense to my comments as I offer them only in the hopes you may benefit in some small way. I dont think you mean to, but your age and mom/woman comments are a bit patronizing.
I know with age comes wisdom and you have us all beat in that category …age not wisdom LOL- having said that, my wise friend- my opinions are no less valid then yours – again I dont know if you meant to be condensing or not – I hope not, but this is how some of your statments are reading…
TGF just for the record, I am not basing these opinions on my being a mother, although some of that does help to shape my thoughts.
I am not more apt to give a criminal a pass simply because someone is a kid- if the facts dictate that they are at fault I will hold them accountable the same as I would anyone-else.
I think I have proven this time and time again.
I do not think a grandfather, father or any male is any more or less “tough” on young criminals than a woman simply because they are a man. Nor do I think a woman in any capacity is any more or less compassionate or empathetic than her male counterparts simply because they are female
Although I understand your experiences have led you to be suspicious of those wearing hoodies, my experiences have taught me otherwise-
TGF 98% of all law abiding citizens have worn hoodies- especially those who are under the age of 30- they have worn them from a young age- growing up, thru their teens and on into their twenties and thirties- –
Its common place TGF- and it has been the style for quite a while- especially for those who go running or walking in all weather most assuredly for those who have MP3players or phones with earpieces-
Trayvon was not hiding his face TGF. George in the 911 call states that Trayvon is “staring” at him- in order to “stare” one has to use their eyes, right? in order to take note of it, the eyes must be seen right??
Besides whether or not George had the same suspicions as you about hoodie wearers IDK – but whatever the reasons for his suspicions- he did the right thing when he called 911 to report his concerns-
This isnt really a case of was he justified in calling- one should always call when concerned- (usually non emergency #)-
this is a case of was he justified in disregarding his NW training and the 911 dispatchers directives- the directives he agreed to heed when he answered OKAY
TGF- Trayvon was not carrying a back pack that night- so what bearing does that have?
By your way of thinking anyone who has ever been suspended or who has committed a crime or has been THOUGHT to have committed a crime (he was never arrested for these things) better not ever wear a hoody or go for a walk- that means anyone who ever comes in contact with them at a later time is justified in following them and chasing them and shooting them?
You keep bringing up Trayvons “runins”- but you seem to not take issue with Georges past— Why? I would think the shooters history is most important in this case- not the kid who was only carrying a cell candy and tea…
TGF although alot is not known, the general time line seems to be- Trayvon was not that far into the subdivision before George spotted him and called- and again, just because any person is walking looking at houses does not mean they are casing the joint.
I agree we must all wait for more info, but we can begin to get a picture can we not, from the info that has been released?
Ill say it again, George had every right to voice his suspicions to 911 and then stand down & let LE handle it- what George did not have a right to do is ACT on those suspicions- He didnt have the right to confront or follow or chase or detain Trayvon- and if he wasnt trying to do the job of an LEO Trayvon would be alive today.
According to reports TGF, he other members of the NW didnt realize that George was carrying a concealed weapon- it is my understanding their training was to carry NON lethal weapons like pepper spray etc- and they all agree their training was to ObSERVE only then REPORT not pursue confront and shoot
TGF, I would be honored to be your friend and I would consider myself lucky to have that friendship for 40+ years-
But I do not feel like I am taking the less obvious side of this issue- LOL
I do appreciate hearing your perspective and I learn alot from debating with you
Peace TGF
AJMO
Heart u Mom 3.0.
Gotta call out the 98% hoodie reference, lol. That is a non-statistic.
B
A bit of history. Today is the 70th aniversary of General Dolittle’s raid on Tokyo, Japan. One of my good buddies step-father tried out for the raid. He was a B-26 pilot. All twin engined Army Air Force pilots could try out.
My friends step-father did not make the cut. The B-26 bomber had 400 more hp. than the B-25. They had to be able to take off with a full load of fuel and bombs in 525 feet. My friends step-father told us he was just too chicken to rev the 2,600 hp. engines as high as required. He thought they might blow up. The contest was held at Randolph field in San Antonio.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/19/dispatcher-in-powell-murder-suicide-reprimanded-1175310381/
Thought you all would be interested in this.
Ha HA so true Blinky— I pulled that # from… thin air-
In all seriousness, Im sorry if anyone thought that was an actual statistic- I tried to make it obvious that I was speaking only of my experiences- Thanks for calling me out Blink.
Heart u too
Thanks Sue for weighing in with your thoughts- just so you know trayvon was not carrying a back pack that night-
The instance TGF is referring to took place in the Fall- according to reports Trayvons back pack was seized and school officials found
some pieces of womens jewwlry, and a flat headed screw driver.
Police were alerted and they ran the jewelry to see if any of it had been repoted as stolen- it wasnt-
I wish I had a link but I dont- sorry-
Trayvon had just been suspended from school for 10 days because his backpack was found to have a pipe and an empty baggy with traces of marijuana.
I am with you as to this information not having any bearing on Georges actions that night-
To me, it doesnt matter if Trayvon was smoking a joint in front of George or had been carrying a bag of stolen goods that night-
It was still never George Zimmermans job to assume the role of a police man to follow or chase detain or question Trayvon-
George Zimmermans actions put everyone at risj that night- innocent bystanders LE himself and ofcourse Trayvons-
Observe and report-then stand down and let police handle it-
AJMO
Peace
sorry for all the typos- old key board- and Im rushed
Mom3.0
I don’t know your life’s experiences. You may be someone who works in the criminal justice system or you could be in medical services.
The facts are simple regarding my take on moms. Women and men do not think alike. I have spent a great deal of my life trying to really understand how women think. I have a twin sister, so I got an early start on this.
Things that mom’s allow to happen without putting a stop to them or they try to soften the impact for children and young people are far different today than the times that I grew up.
I am sorry that you thought my remarks to be condesending. And I will stand by my opinion that you often take a contrary position that is not in line with normal events. That is not necessarly bad. Sometimes it is what is needed in order to solve a problem. I intended the statement about my friend to be a compliment, but apparently you didn’t take it as such.
I stayed out of the first exchange I read with Mom 3.0, although I wrote a response once or twice and decided you are both fantastic and contributing advocates so I should butt out and let y’all speak your minds with no input from me.
I do believe Mom 3.0 took your response “patronizingly” and you never intended it that way, as it relates to the way Mom’s or women and men think differently many times in situations.
The men are from mars women are from Venus philosophy started long before any of us where on the planet, lol.
To that end, different women, non-mothers, and different men and non-fathers think differently as well, but I think it is a fair statement to say that in a general sense, at the “root” women and men have many diversities in purview.
Additionally, I swear this all stems from how I named myself blink in the first place. It has everything to do with the way we as people, process information. He probably owes me an endorsement fee of some kind by now, but reading blink by Malcolm Gladwell absolutely helped me understand this and how relates to how folks see us and how we see ourselves.
You form an opinion based on all the things that make you “you” very quickly, almost as if you are running more processors and RAM than you are aware of.
Mom 3.0, is one that needs to consider all the details, read the ingredients to the mental recipe carefully, check the measurements, taste each one as they go into the stew, then taste as it simmers, consider other people’s experience in it’s creation similarly, and only when she thinks it is ready will you have her opinion stew.
( MOM 3.0- please do not take the cooking reference as sexist, it was the only analogy I could think of, and I love to cook and create dishes for my family, but it is sometimes a point of contention between Mr. Blink and I because so does he, and he is “in my hair” when I do wanting to know exactly what I am doing and offering “helpful” suggestions which mostly result in his being barred from the kitchen, lol. It is fun to watch him cook with My Mom because she lets him think he is running the show).
I agree that a contrarian opinion is helpful in cases, but I am not sure that is the right word for Mom 3.0 in this scenario, I think she is trying to avoid stereotype and sympathy for Zimmerman based on Trayvon’s real or perceived threat, and on that point I agree with her that I do not care if that young man was robbing people blind, Zimmerman was actually putting “the neighborhood” at additional risk by acting out, he protected nobody and a 17 year old is dead.
I realize I want to believe every street kid is the next Michael Oher ,and I have no doubt that you, Mom 3.0, and everyone on here have that in common.
The fact is we care and take a stand instead of being bystanders, regardless of whether we agree on everything all the way.
On the hoodie- neither of my childrens schools allow children to wear sweatshirts with the hoodie up, anywhere on the campus or inside the buildings. What I have taught my children, and what is recommended in all my training is that if an individual gives off a vibe that concerns you, or hits your satellites as you have heard me refer ad nauseum, then one must train themselves to listen to it without fail and remove themselves from that person’s presence if possible, or be vigilant to the situation without provoking until you can. That is gender and race neutral advice, 100%.
On racebaiters- I cannot abide that behavior. I refuse to be drawn into it, enough said.
ATG, I smiled at this:
“I have spent a great deal of my life trying to really understand how women think”
The fact that you took the time to do that, puts you way ahead of the curve, but you already knew that I am certain.
B
On racebaiters- I cannot abide that behavior. I refuse to be drawn into it, enough said.
*****
This is now one of my favorite statements you have made. This just summed up my feeling about this tradgedy. This story is so sad and did not need race to fuel the fire as I believe firmly that race never played into this at u. I cried for happy the day that Obama was sworn in. I did not vote for him and will not in the next election either but that is only because of politics not race. My family thought I had gone crazy but I was so proud of our country that day.
Such an eloquent point Ode-
I have always made it my practice to vote, and to openly speak my preferences.
I have also made it my practice to never publicly condemn the elected leader of our country once they are in office whether I voted for them or not. I have a dear friend and colleague that I tease all the time because he is a political savant and every conversation always ends up political. We agree on most, but he feels the need to be very vocal in his lack of support where I do not.
I did not vote for our president, but while he is in office he has my support as an American citizen.
So I won’t get into the political policy differences we have.
That said, I was moved to tears at the HBO documentary about him and I completely agree with you that I am proud of the progress, and more proud of the youth taking a stand in the counties future than I have ever been.
B
mom3.0
I still love and respect you and your way of stating things. I think after the many years spent making quick experienced based decisions, it is hard for me to do the careful analysis you are able to regarding events and people.
Thanks for the lively exchange and thanks to Blink for her input as well. The cooking story about her husband and mom is typical for when a guy thinks he has things going his way, he may be unknowingly manipulated. Made me chuckle. As my attorney friend Max who has three daughters says “Women in control mode are devious”. He says that to the girls and his wife with a big grin.
ATG-
You said-
I think after the many years spent making quick experienced based decisions, it is hard for me to do the careful analysis you are able to regarding events and people.
What a fantastic thing it is to be your age and be open to others as a different way of thinking.
I so appreciate that.
B
B