Isabel Celis Breaking News: Child Services Removes Sons From Sergio Celis Care and Placed With Mother
In the latest development in the April 21st disappearance of missing Tucson child Isabel Celis, her father Sergio has been stripped of his physical custodial rights of her brothers.
There has been no confirmation from Tucson Police about the children’s removal and placement, and CPS has only confirmed the boys have been placed with one parent.
Sources inside the investigation have confirmed to www.blinkoncrime.com that evidence gleaned in the investigation has warranted alternative placement of the couples oldest children in the wake of the disappearance of their daughter, Isabel.
The boys, whose names have been reported previously elsewhere but are being intentionally withheld by www.blinkoncrime.com have been placed together, not separately.
Check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for details.
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I have a question for anyone out there able to answer it:
On the statements made to the media by the Celises: Do the police listen to them and consider them? Can they be used as a basis for questioning the couple if, say, the statements made to the media conflict with what they’ve already told police? OR–are their words in public off limits to police since they are not getting them “sworn” or “written down” like in a police statement?
Just thinking about this because I read on another blog where the writer illustrated some statements he viewed as conflicting by SC. If police could indeed act on this, I would have thought SC, at least, would have been brought in for more questions.
Would be interested in some views/insights on this question:-)
Every syllable the Celis’s make are open to analysis and scrutiny by LE. To my knowledge, SC has cooperated with every LE request for meetings to date.
Has anyone pulled up any recent permits for work on the Celis home?
B
The neighbor who heard the dogs barking at 6:30 am was pretty certain of the time and from what I’ve read she’s a reliable source. SC didn’t call 911 until approx 8:am so the dogs couldn’t have been reacting to relatives searching for Isa. The dogs were barking approximately an hour and a half before she was reported missing. Does this sound correct or has the timeline of the 911 call Sergio placed changed?
thank you Pueblo Dweller and WPG for the links yesterday
Thanks for your appreciation World Girl
After watching the Press Con. IMO a person can come away with two very different interpretations.
One is just as Blink wrote (Or close)- LE are not sure what happened and have essentially started from square one- clueless- and seem to be focusing on RSOs which seem to point towards their moving away from a direct family member-
Interesting that Copies of search warrant will remain sealed.
In reading on WS a posters brought up an interesting point in the previous PC- LE stated (pp)” It’s not what we know or don’t know it’s what we can prove in court ” AND ” we have a great deal of information, we just need something to tie it together…
–
So how can they be clueless and know alot but need to tie it together?
Pure speculation but could some family member be involved but still also have an RSO tie?
IDK- I am clueless for certain
I was very disappointed that LE has still not made contact with a # of people/houses in the neighborhood and it also shocked me that they have not watched all of the tapes/video yet.
A lot concerns me… like this thought
- if they believe ISa was taken by someone who was sexually motivated- RSOs & pedos and they are limiting their search- that could be bad -as the man that took Polly Klaas was not an pedo RSO he was a rapist- and he is now considered to be in the category of an opportunist pedo-
meaning the sicko just happened upon the situation and little Polly and decided hmm she’ll do-
Sad and scary
If this is the case here, then LE will miss the perp- and it could be the case because as we know there are businesses and a club IIRC in the area of the home.
Just thinking out loud…
Praying for Isa and her family and her community and LE
AJMO
Peace
Has anyone pulled up any recent permits for work on the Celis home?
B
_______________________________________________________________–
Ahhhhhhhhhh…. good thought.
Just did a quick check. Only thing showing for work permits are the build of the house 2004.
Unfortunately for me, I had an issue with a dishonest contractor a few years ago, so I know there can be more info on this site. It is not entirely intuitive to the user:-( I wil look around it more when I get home later.
http://www.pimaxpress.com/research/results.asp
***If anyone is looking around this site, the house is in Tucson on drop-down menu; not Pima County
P.S: So sorry if this is redundant as I posted a few minutes ago and then my computer began to “spin,” so I don’t know if my post went or not! I don’t see it, though.
Mosaic and Blink make a very good point-
Could LE be ready to “move” and be “tying it all together” by making sure any defense tactic of “you only focused on our client” argument falls flat?
Here I go again making a connection to the Casey case-
but this happened in Caylees case as well despite the fact that it was obvious that LE followed up and pursued every conceivable lead and angle.
Pueblo Dweller your post also brought up the Anthony Trial for me too- and I am starting to think Monkey Bunny could be right perhaps I keep making the connections because they CAN be made-
The Anthonys always made statements like when Shes home and safe then youll know the story —we know but cant say still all questions will be answered when shes home…
–I am still working to give the benefit of the doubt
but some statements and actions do concern me greatly-
and yes one of them was Sergios use of the word “abducted” that struck me too guys- but in truth he could just be one of those well read people who uses the seldom used less common language…
Oh Isa what happened to you where are you?
Praying for Isa and for all those who need it.
Blink,
Did the BAU ever have a change of mind regarding interviewing the family/parents?
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18578727/police-to-question-more-neighbors-near-celis-home
Police to question more neighbors near Celis home
Posted: May 21, 2012 11:27 PM PDT Updated: May 21, 2012 11:27 PM PDT
By Carissa Planalp – email
TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) -
One month into the search for Isabel Celis and police are beginning to retrace their steps. Tucson Police announced Monday they are going back to the neighborhood near Broadway and Craycroft to interview more residents.
“We have been downloading all the information for them,” says Rick Moore who owns Moore Security Solutions which is near the Celis home. “Giving them an idea what cameras are looking at what, what is the degree of separation of some of the angles they’re looking at.”
Moore says police have stopped by his store a few more times to grab surveillance footage.
“Previous days, extra days, extra time and we were able to help them out with that information.”
(snipped, more @ link)
40. moxiemom says:
May 22, 2012 at 12:01 am
From my sister:
Quote from BC at the candlelight vigil May 18 ………… ” At the end of the day, when she comes home, everybody’s questions will be answered.” Did anyone notice that her first words were “at the end of the story”, then she changed it to “day”? This brought back memories of Balloon Boy when he said, “We did it for the ‘show’”! Interesting!
Nancy in Colorado
I posted that here and at SM immediately, yes, I did notice it and yes, I do believe it is noteworthy.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink, I caught it immediately, and I have to admit Balloon Boy came to mind. I have no doubt LE is listening to every word that comes out of the mouths of these parents. Not pointing a finger at either parent, but find some of their choices of words odd. Could it be a native language thing…absolutely.
pueblodweller says:
May 22, 2012 at 11:35 am
Quote from BC at the candlelight vigil May 18 ………… ” At the end of the day, when she comes home, everybody’s questions will be answered.” Did anyone notice that her first words were “at the end of the story”, then she changed it to “day”? This brought back memories of Balloon Boy when he said, “We did it for the ‘show’”! Interesting!
________________________________________________________________
This idea has been put forth by the Celises since their first TV appearance: I have heard on more than one occasions this concept of, “all the questions will be answered.” and “we are confident the truth/story will come out,” etc. Do you all recall BC and/or SC making these references? It has bothered me from the first time I heard them because it makes me think they have a secret and “we will all find out”–surprise!
I cannot wrap my head around why BC would use these words in this way under these circumstances……it makes me suspect of her.
I remember that Jose Baez once used those very same words.
Tucson Police will interview or re-interview and will leave flyers with these questions
The flyer includes the following questions:
1.Did you observe anything that struck you as unusual or out of the ordinary at anytime prior to the incident or since the incident?
2.Were there any delivery people or solicitors in your area two weeks prior to this incident or since the incident?
3.Has there been any construction in your area prior to or since the incident?
4.Were there any yard sales, parties or other large gatherings prior to the incident?
5.Did you notice any unusual vehicles or vehicles that you did not recognize in your area prior to the incident?
6.Do you have surveillance cameras in use at your home?
7.Do you know if any of your neighbors have surveillance cameras in use?
“Police will be passing out a flyer to people “residing in, visiting, or having business in the neighborhoods and other areas in the general vicinity of the Celis family home,” as stated in a news release.”
They also intend to narrow the RSO investigations to perps with “proclivities” toward children under the age of 10.
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18575838/tpd-scheduled-briefings-will-end
I meant to mention that Sgt. Pacheco and Blink’s questions about work permets pair up well and he asks “has there been any contruction in your area prior to or since the incident.”
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18575838/tpd-scheduled-briefings-will-end
I don’t know about the rest of you but I’m coming down with a case of the cold chills.
@ pueblo
As we all learned from the C***Word case, lying and deceiving anyone and everyone isnt necessarily a problem…
I will also never forget that not long after President Clinton got himself in hot water for perjuring himself on the stand, Chris Rock had Johnny Cochran on his HBO talk show and asked him about Clinton. He asked something like, “He lied on the stand, isnt that a big problem for him now?” Cochran answered simply, “not necessarily…”
“At the end of the day, when she comes home, everybody’s questions will be answered.” (BC)
What’s strange to me about this comment is that it implies she has insider’s knowledge.
Can I suggest a theory?….I think she’s been duped by her husband. We heard how frantically worried she was during the 911 call. He ends his part of the call by saying he’s got to go because his wife just got there and she’s “freakin’ out.”
But then, at the next press conference, they are both calm and appear to be unified. What changed for her between the 911 call and that first press conference? Instead of becoming MORE vocal and worried she seems to be much calmer and secure. Her forehead shows absolutely no tension. But her daughter has been missing for many nights!
I think Sergio has a “story” that he’s told her. I think she buys his story, whatever it is.
Just a theory based on their behavior. My opinion only.
Is it at all possible that Isabel is not Sergio’s bio-child? Are the 2 boys Becky’s bio-sons? Can this be an intrafamilial custody feud?
It’s positively sickening that little children are so easily removed from their supposedly safe surroundings.
Mom 3.0,
I’ve been thinking about you all day, since the press conference regarding the arrest in the Sierra Lamar case in Morgan Hill, CA. I saw Sierra’s mom on Nancy Grace and came away from the interview believing that Sierra’s mother was covering for her boyfriend. Nancy asked Sierra’s mom what time her boyfriend left the house on the morning of Sierra’s disappearance and she said that he had been cleared and she didn’t want to take the focus off of Sierra. I understand that she would be sick of these questions because of her ex-husband being an RSO, but that threw up a huge red flag for me. It is not looking like he is involved. My point is, my gut was wrong. I’m not going to be too hard on myself because Bethany Marshall picked up on the strange answer right away and advised Sierra’s mother that she needs to be loyal to her daughter and not her boyfriend. Nancy also flared up. So, just because someone says something that seems odd, doesn’t mean that that person knows something they are not telling. Not everyone watches Nancy Grace and Jane Valez Mitchell every night and reads Blinkoncrime like it’s the Bible like I do. That said, I still think something is very rotten in Denmark when it comes to SC.
Paula says:
May 22, 2012 at 7:19 pm
Is it at all possible that Isabel is not Sergio’s bio-child? Are the 2 boys Becky’s bio-sons? Can this be an intrafamilial custody feud?
It’s positively sickening that little children are so easily removed from their supposedly safe surroundings.
—————————
In my opinion, Isa favors SC more than she favors her mother. I think all three children are this couple’s biological children. JMO.
In response to one of my own earlier questions, I have found one somewhat more recent performance of Sergio with the Arizona Opera. He was Guisseppe La Traviata in April 2008. Not named in the cast lists for either the 11-12 or 12-13 performances.
Just trying to follow up on how he spends his time.
Hi Blink and All – I sheepishly agree that I may have some come-up-ance due me in regards to judging BC too harshly on her DUI, but the more I hear of this case, the more I feel there is something going on with the parents in that household and that they’re covering up. I do not dismiss their prior legal problems. Perhaps it’s because of my job. Everything in an inmate’s past (from traffic violations, misdemeanors, to A-1 felonies and violent felonies) on a rap sheet, create a picture for us to better understand the person we’re dealing with within the prison system. We do make judgement calls for the safety of all.
There are many scenarios that would have caused a LEO to cite BC for a DUI and endangering the welfare of a child that day, and we’ll never know why the judge dismissed the case. And SC – he is no stranger to the courts by any means. Anyway, I’ll leave it at that at this late hour. I love you all and find you all to be a class act with much to lend to this terrible story. I am humbled and awed by the intelligent expertise of those who contribute to this site.
@Paula says:
May 22, 2012 at 7:19 pm
Anything is possible if the parents (BC & SC) are lying. However, they have both responded publically to this question, confirmed and explicitly stated that all three children are their biological children.
=============
My thoughts on why LE has not yet spoken to everyone they intend to at this point is because they had leads they felt were more important to follow-up on to date. Since none of those leads have panned out, it seems they are doing a good job of following up on the loose ends in hopes of eliminating those questions/doubts and possibly obtaining more substantial leads. I can say after hearing the press conference today I am feeling better about this case being solved as it appears LE plans to check, re-check and triple/quadruple check every aspect and potential connection. So many cases are not done even half as well and it’s years before progress is made…when some fluke of luck brings in a break and often the perp was someone spoken to in the beginning and left out of the follow-ups years ago.
Prayers for Isa.
lawkat & mosaic, I so agree. Something is just not right with BC saying:
“At the end of the day when Isabel comes home, everybody’s questions will be answered.”
It doesn’t seem like the appropriate thing to say if your child has been kidnapped by a stranger. I’m back to being suspicious of both her and Sergio.
I have a hunch LE has DNA and will be asking everyone they speak to to voluntarily offer to provide their DNA in order to clear themselves. The one who is unwilling to do so, will be the one…or possibly they would be turned down by someone who knows they could be linked to another crime, but my gut tells me this case will be solved when they have obtained DNA from every possible POI or suspect or when they are told NO to voluntary submission. MOO.
Prayers for Isa.
@Sue
Very open and kind response. This is a teaching blog dear friend, exactly what it is meant for. Thank you.
B
Just a quick thought. The neighbor hears dogs barking at 6:30. RC says she left for work at 7 but something doesn’t add up about that. Most hospital shifts are 7to 3 then 3 to 11, then 11 to 7, repeat.
Wouldn’t she have had to leave for work before 7 to get there on time? She is a pediatric nurse right? So the dogs would have been barking right at the time she left. I don’t believe she left for work at 7 it had to have been earlier. Does anyone know what hospital she works at and how far it is from their home? As far as I know those shift times stand for hospitals everywhere.
I don’t believe Isa was abducted by a stranger. Something catastrophic happened in that house within the family. One or both parents didn’t pass the polygraph, hence the CPS involvement.
Maybe I should explain assumption LE has DNA in this case.
1. LE conducted several intense searches (follow-ups more than once).
2. SC has not been charged…assuming there is an unkown DNA sample
collected.
3. LE has not ruled out stranger abduction.
4. LE has dedicated more resources to following up and searching for
stranger abduction than internal/family/friend/known perp
scenario.
5. LE having collected an unknown source of DNA from Isa’s room would
be the only reason I can fathom SC has not been arrested to-date.
MOO. Prayers for Isa.
Last post on this tonight….I guess I should also conclude that TPD, like in Sierra LaMar’s case, is trying to fool SC into believing he has gotten away with it and has him under every kind of surveillance imaginable in hopes he will lead them to Isa. I personally believe if SC did this, he had to have help. Could be LE is merely biding their time in hopes a phone call, meeting, or other digital or monetary transaction will be the final hook needed to obtain a conviction and will arrest him.
The thing that has me puzzled is the dogs/neighbor at 6:38 am. If SC is responsible, he had help…who would help him disappear a child? If the uncle is involved, I can only come to the conclusion he did this without SC’s knowledge and may have gotten help. I guess I just can’t “buy” the uncle helped SC hide this…I don’t know why, but I just can”t…while I could believe he did it on his own, I can’t “buy” he helped SC. MOO.
Prayers for Isa.
mosaic says:
May 22, 2012 at 5:53 pm
“At the end of the day, when she comes home, everybody’s questions will be answered.” (BC)
What’s strange to me about this comment is that it implies she has insider’s knowledge.
Can I suggest a theory?….I think she’s been duped by her husband. We heard how frantically worried she was during the 911 call. He ends his part of the call by saying he’s got to go because his wife just got there and she’s “freakin’ out.”
——————————————————————–
Mosaic, I agree that something is very wrong here with her change in attitude. The only explanation I have for him NOT freaking out is that men tend to deny things when it comes to severe situations whereas a mother has her radar up almost all the time and will be the first to “freak out.”
When I was 3, my mom put 2 and 2 together and told my dad, concerning me, “I think she’s diabetic. She has all the symptoms.” I can still remember my dad’s response-”No, no, she isn’t diabetic. She has some kind of infection or something.” My mom was right, my dad surprised. I was a type 1 diabetic and mom got it while dad denied it at first.
I am not saying Sergio is innocent or that his response wasn’t questionable, just that moms and dads react differently. None of this is adding up. All JMHO
Off Topic
Mom3.0
I will try again to clarify the issues you have with what I write.
Did you not catch the fact that some women who filled jobs while guys were in the military during WWII were hired as temporary replacements? By law employers had to “hold” a job for a returning GI.
One thing I did not mention was the fact that many jobs were necessary because of the need to provide equipment to the military. Aircraft manufacutrers had no reason to keep building military aircraft by the hundreds. Many of those jobs were being done by women. One of my friends, a woman, lost her job teaching GIs how to operate the turrets and machine guns on B-29s. It was expected by all who worked in areas of military procurement that those jobs would cease a some point in time. This was not an attack on women.
What is difficult to understand about identical skill sets and training being a criteria for pay? I could turn that on its head and say if a man and a woman were doing identical work and the woman had additional training or a skill set that would allow her to temporarly do work at a higher level, then she should get more money than the man.
We do have a problem with overweight children and young adults. That was what Blinkette was addressing in her power point presentation. There are major health issues often associated with anyone that is carrying 20 percent or more weight than normal. Many years ago a study was done with women to determine how overweight affected the hormone system. It was a real suprise to see how many glands ceased to function when body weight was out of limits and how they would begin to function again when weight was reduced.
Many companies will not hire people who are overweight because the insurance companies will add them to the pool of extra cost people. Why hire an overweight person that costs you extra money when a person is available that can do the work and they don’t have that problem.
An overweight person will require a more expensive chair than a regular weight person. Businesses are not charities. Everything they do is based on cost and performance. This may not be considered to be fair by some, but other than pure health reasons these are some of the things that young people need to know. These are some of the implied areas in my statement regarding weight control. I could fill pages of examples, but I chose to keep it short. Anyway it was not my presentation, it was Blinkett’s. We don’t know how she approached it.
The issue with young women in the military is not about whether they should have a particular job and be given equal pay. The issue was the fact that women are simply not as strong as men. Studies show that muscle fibers in women are half the size of those in men. These same studies show that upper body strength of women is only 52 percent of a man while lower body strength is 66 percent. These are averages. There will always be exceptions.
Your statement about self defense was the issue. I know what happens in training. The DI’s could bust out the women for not being strong enough to carry a 60 lb. pack for 10 miles. They don’t because they know the women will never be in combat units. The same is true for defensive training. The level of work required for the men is two or three times that for women in the defensive training for the same reason. In addition, they do not allow women to participate against the men in defensive training.
Some of the guys will gripe about having to carry their pack and share carrying one of the women’s. The DI will just laugh and tell them to do it.
The British tried to create a program that treated women the same as the men. Few could complete the work and those that did had major injuries from the training. They lost a lot of women who could have done good work in other areas.
When I write about a subject, I try to keep it to reality. The reality I know from experience.
I know you are a smart woman and have a great gift for analysis. You are also much more sensitive to fairness than some. However, fairness is relative to ones knowledge and experience. Therefore, your idea of fairness will be different than mine.
Please do not build a “straw man” argument if you do not agree with me. Just say it straight out. My feelings will not be hurt.
Hello Everyone,
I have been following Isa’s case from the beginning and read here everyday- I look forward to everyone’s input and am amazed with the dedication each of you put in….I have not posted here yet (and only a few times on a couple of other pages), but I truely do value the various ideas/thoughts everyone offers.
That said, I have something that has been in the back of my mind that I finally thought I’d throw out there- I’m sure there are a million reasons why this theory can be thrown out, but so far it answers a few of my questions…
What if the Celis’AND LE know more than they are leading on to the public…what if they have a POI(s) and are just trying to get enough to arrest them? FOr some reason when it was released via a press conference that SC could no longer have contact with the boys (voluntarily), I almost felt like this was some sort of tactic-as if they were using the media to get this info out to a certain person(s). This would answer why SC is not fighting to get back to his family, but also could explain BC’s strange statement about everybody’s questions being answered when Isa comes home (paraphrased). I believe someone even stated that it sounded like BC started to say “story”-well, maybe she was talking about a story-maybe this is all a set up (after the fact, not the actual abduction) inorder to get Isa home safely. I am not a mother yet, but I have to believe one would do anything if they thought it would help save their child-even “leave” their family at the advice of LE. Not sure if I’m even making sense, and I can’t really think of a reason why SC being seperated from the boys might “out” the POI, but who knows….
I guess this theory might only fit if Isa’s abduction was due to something SC did and was some sort of threat or payback to him (something along those lines, like I said, I can’t really put it all together-just brainstorming).
I know this doesn’t answer every question like the previous CPS visit in December (but maybe that was a misunderstanding, or maybe it was due to the uncle/cousin living with them and his drug habits)-and that’s why the sister said that SC had never talked to CPS previously….
Maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part… but for some reason whenever a child goes missing, I have a hard time looking at the parents as the culprits-maybe I just don’t want to see it b.c it’s too hard for me to grasp,(one exception is Baby Lisa-sorry off topic)
Anyways….back to reading for me, just wanted to get a feel of what others thought and then maybe I can cross this theory off my list- I’m sure there is something I’m forgetting that would easily dismay this : )
I am coming to the conclusion that Becky is an abused spouse and is suffering with all the symptoms.
Sergio belittling her in the 911 call. Becky correcting her words and looking down or sideways.
The more I watch her the more I think Sergio abused her.
Still cannot get past the, imo, discrepancy from the redacted 911 tapes provided by LE along with the the dispatch calls played on JVM, on what Isabel was last seen wearing – - pink tank top vs blue tank top.
The TPD in their first news release dated April 21, the same day they responded to the 911 calls – - within the first critical 24 hours – - stated “There is no information available regarding what she was wearing at the time of her disappearance.”
I could have sworn the
http://bringisahome.com/
front page had under “Circumstances” the description of blue tank top and navy blue shorts, but I don’t see it there now. They still have, though, RC left the home at around 6:30am – - the first place I had EVER read about the 6:30am:
“Circumstances
Isabel Mercedes Celis’s parents put her to bed on the night of Friday, April 20th around 11pm. Mom woke up before everyone else, got ready for work and left around 6:30am. Dad woke up shortly after and went to wake the children. It was around 8am when he noticed Isa was not in her room. At that time the police were notified. A screen from one of the windows was compromised, the blinds had been shoved aside.
Isabel is a light skinned Caucasian or Hispanic 6 year old female. She is 44″ tall and weighs approximately 44lbs. Her hair is light brown and her eyes are hazel. She was last seen with her hair braided into two long braids. She is missing two of her front teeth, one at the top and one at the bottom.
Please call 911 or 88-Crime if you have any information that can help us to bring Isa home.
Thank you.”
** However, the very last flyer pdf on the page
http://bringisahome.com/fliers/
states: “She was last seen wearing a blue tank top and navy blue basketball shorts.”
Don’t know where the website got the info on the 6:30am, because the redacted 911 calls had not been released yet. Same with the blue top . . . neither the dispatch calls nor the redacted 911 calls were made public.
Was hoping someone at this last scheduled presser would have finally asked for clarification.
* To clarify and add:
The redacted 911 calls did not contain the 6:30am information.
Sorry . . . to continue on Isabel’s tank top:
Hypothetically, if the 911 operator that spoke to SergioJr and subsequently RC did in fact ask for the color of Isabel’s top or RC offered it without a prompt from the operator and the color was given as “blue” AND this portion of the call was redacted by LE, then I would interpret the parents each LAST SAW Isabel at different times . . . taking into consideration also that it has been written that Isabel like to change her clothes multiple times a day.
@OSU fan
If the Celis’s believe they know who has Isa, and le is either in agreement or playing along, that theory would make sense to me. In fact from the celis’s seemingly calm demeanor since the 911 call it would not surprise me .
That said, if the BAU Kors not to interview the parents after a case briefing, I am certain that strategy is based on their experience with the 9 out of 10 rule.
@ SouthernMom says:
May 23, 2012 at 12:34 am
The thing that has me puzzled is the dogs/neighbor at 6:38 am. If SC is responsible, he had help…who would help him disappear a child?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still can’t seem to get answers to questions like:
“how did they get over that high wall (NG producer had a hard time with that one), get fortunate & pick the correct bedroom where Isa was sleeping, get back out of the house carrying a sleeping 6yr old, get back over that high wall carrying a sleeping 6yr old (one person, two, three), then get away (walking, driving, flying etc)” ? No one has mentioned hearing cars in that area that night/morning the neighbor only mentioned barking dogs.. So how did they all get away ? There had to be some car noise because BC went to work & I assume drove a car for that & didn’t she leave around the time of hearing the barking dogs..
If these questions have already been answered I apologize & will go back to read mode only..
There could be some problem in what she was wearing if they found those articles of clothes left in the house and may not be able to determine what she left the house wearing.
Blink, what is the “9 out of 10 rule”?
Thank you.
9 out of 10 times a suspected crime occurs within the home of a child- a parent, guardian, or other family member, or someone with access to the child within the home is involved.
It is sadly the same statistic for overall domestic violence although I think it drops to 8 out of 10 when you include domestic partners or romantic interests.
I am very, very curious about what bio evidence may have been found in Isa’s room, and if any weapon was used to subdue the female victim of the sex assault that occurred in Tanque Verde.
B
True, Ode, very possible.
I didn’t think of that, thank you.
Generally speaking and I may be way off target, so please correct me if wrong. Doesn’t a sexual offender usually wait until things cool off before he/she strikes again? It seems that the timing between ISA and the victim at Tanque Verde is very tight.
Cindy- way to general of an assumption my friend, it depends on many, many variables and profiles.
B
I can’t seem to wrap my head around Isabel being taken by a stranger at the time the neighbor heard the men talking and the dogs barking (6:38 a.m. I believe). How would a stranger know that Isabel was alone in her room? How would a stranger know that no one else in the house would be awake (even if they had watched the mom leave for work)? How would a stranger know which room was Isabels?
Then I start thinking that maybe the men talking and the dogs barking at 6:38 a.m. (as reported by the neighbor), was the father and others looking for Isabel. But if that were the case, why would a 911 call not be placed until 8:00?
I can’t believe that a stranger would kidnap/abduct/remove a child from their bedroom at that time of day. So I’m left with either Isabel was removed much earlier in the night or my suspicions have to fall on the father being involved or at least knowing more.
OFF TOPIC
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A Texas Grandfather says:
May 23, 2012 at 1:13 am
Off Topic
What is difficult to understand about identical skill sets and training being a criteria for pay?
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Blink, thanks for letting this off-topic discussion progress. Or, if you don’t, I understand and no problem.
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Mom3.0, I was working on a reply when you responded, so I deleted and let yours stand. But now I’m going to give it my own try.
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ATG, here’s my straight response (as best I can without identifying information). Two “skill sets and training” are never “identical” in the eyes of someone whose mind is cluttered with prejudices or stereotypes. There is always SOME difference, even if it is objectively irrelevant to the job at hand. Somehow those differences are often (yes, often) exploited, whether consciously or subconsciously. I write here about gender, but, in my opinion, many of the same factors play into employment discrimination due to other factors as well.
If one has not been subjected to this, or seen someone close to you subjected to this, it is hard to understand or believe. I have personally been subjected to both hiring and salary discrimination. I’ve been the first woman to receive a certain fellowship, the first to get a specific degree at an institution, and the first woman to hold a specific position with an employer. I was the first woman in my research field to be tenured at a university in the United States or Canada. I was, for example, the only woman to speak at a large international conference in Europe, taking the podium on the last day of a 3-day event (but the female translators were most supportive). I’ve been the only woman in more classes, labs, meetings, business trips, etc, than I count. In more recent years, I’ve also been the person-in-charge of a significant number of otherwise-all-male groups.
Not a single one of those accomplishments happened without significantly exceeding the bar of having an “identical” skill set, yet I’ve had to fight the perception over and over and over and over and over and over and over again that I’ve been given special dispensations and exceptions “because I’m a woman.” The assumption has typically also been that I must have been a strident feminist out to cause trouble or make a point to even go into this field, when the truth is that I blindly followed my abilities and interests, not knowing the sexist quagmire into which I would step.
I’ve had a man paid in excess of 50% more for doing the same job, and only found out from an outraged accounting clerk who found a legal way to enlighten me without violating confidentiality. When confronted with the “identical” education and experience records, the program director would only say “he didn’t see me in the same light.” I was paid less for another position because my colleague had “a wife and children to support.”
I was denied an interview for an entry-level position in favor of one of the male students in my class whom I was tutoring. (The reason given was that, down the line, in 10 years or so, the position MIGHT require international travel, and who knows that MIGHT be to a country where women couldn’t operate effectively as professionals in my field. That was when I first began to realize that I was likely already living IN such a country.) And the worst, most discrimatory or harrassing, experiences I withhold here, as they would assuredly uniquely identify me.
I am doggedly persistent, resourceful and resilient. When I got tenure, a senior male colleague told me that he had to respect me, because I had accomplished that “despite his best efforts.”
Some don’t hold it against me that I’m a woman; their problem is that I am NOT a man. Two examples of that: 1. I was once told very specifically and seriously that the qualification that made my “skill set and experience” less suitable for an opportunity was nothing to do with my gender, but that I had not played high school varsity football. (Outrageous? In my opinion. Anomalous? In my experience, unfortunately, no.) 2. I was excluded from a professional boating field trip, because I couldn’t “pee over the side of the boat.” I pointed out that there was simple equipment that would enable that, if really necessary, but was told my presence would also make it hard for the males to pee over the side when needed. (It took a few years, but by the time he retired, that senior colleague was well-reformed, lol, and I had risen significantly in his estimation.)
Much has improved (and I take miniscule credit for some changes), but much has not. Those who would not engage in such subjective thinking and behavior have a hard time believing that so many of their friends did and still do. And some others do it themselves at times, and don’t even know it.
Thank you for listening, to anyone who made it this far.
I sincerely appreciate everyone’s thoughts on these very important issues, one of which, I started as an example of the proactive curriculum our children are tasked with today. My bad, although good discussion by all. I see one post yet from Mom3.0 and then I am going to ask that we get back to topic so those who are more lurker than poster do not keep sending me PM’s because they are reading on their phones, lol. Again I apologize, I started it, I appreciate your understanding and in no way am I minimizing anyone’s thoughts on the issue. In fact, I could contribute significantly, but will simply moderate until such time I write on something germane.
correction:
discrimatory ^ discriminatory
Off Topic-
TGF,
I am not trying to create a strawman argument
When I disagree I say so- when i have an opposing view I share it as do you.
I know we disagree on many things TGF, and this will just have to be another one-Disagreement is healthy.
I know words can be misinterpreted as well as tone – I was trying to illustrate how easy it is to misinterpret some of your statements.
I never claimed that is what you meant- yes TGF I understand the facts- your point -the history.
I dont disagree with the facts TGF I merely expanded on them.
I am glad you took the time to try to better clarify what you meant with each statement and no I dont have a hard time understanding your point of view- what I was trying to convey is that often times your point of view comes across as showing only on side of an issue.
TGF, obviously you have your style of writing and I do not take issue with any of that I appreciate every posters style.
What I disagree with in any post- no matter the poster, is
statements that I view as unfair or chauvinistic, youre right I am sensitive to fairness.
TGF My posts are based in reality and facts and stem from experience and research same as yours.
Your arguments on the workplace and assumptions made over the health care cost of overweight persons can be construed as discrimination. What makes a company assume that a thinner person is healthier and will cost less? Perhaps they are closet junkies or have cancer, a tapeworm or will die soon from a heart condition brought on by anorexia. Treatment of each will cost the employer.
They seem to be assuming that overweight people are at a disadvantage -that their differences are disabililities and These disabilities would prevent them from performing as well as the men.
snipped:
Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 prohibits federal contractors and subcontractors from discriminating against and requires affirmative action for qualified individuals with disabilities in all aspects of employment. Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in programs and activities that receive federal financial assistance and in federally conducted programs. Section 188 of the Workforce Investment Act of 1998 (WIA) prohibits discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities in any WIA Title I-financially assisted program or activity. This law is enforced by the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP).
Title I of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) prohibits employers of 15 or more workers, employment agencies, and labor organizations of 15 or more workers from discriminating against qualified individuals with disabilities.
Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) prohibits state and local governments from discriminating against qualified individuals with disabilities in programs, activities, and services.
The Vietnam Era Veterans’ Re-adjustment Assistance Act (VEVRAA) prohibits discrimination against and requires affirmative action for qualified special disabled veterans, as well as other categories of veterans. This law is enforced by the OFCCP.
Section 188 of the Workforce Investment Act of 1998 (WIA) prohibits discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities who are applicants, employees, and participants in WIA Title I-financially assisted programs and activities, and programs that are part of the One-Stop system. Section 188 also prohibits discrimination on the grounds of age, race, color, religion, sex, national origin, political affiliation or belief, and for beneficiaries only, citizenship or participation in a WIA Title I-financially assisted program or activity. This law is enforced by the Civil Rights Center.
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Operative Word- QUALIFIED
Women were once thought to be unqualified for the jobs of men as were African Americans once thought to be unqualified for the jobs of whites– the assumption was wrong-
Accommodations are sometimes necessary. Whether they be for women in active duty or for employees in the workforce. This accommodations are investments in a QUALIFIED worker and must be made whether it be installing a womens bathroom, or a special chair for a pregnant lady or for an older employee or an overweight person or a physically disabled veteran.-
TGF, thanks for sharing your thoughts and for reading mine-
Lets put this to rest- your thoughts are factual and have merit as do mine.
Waving the Swiss flag as a sign of Peace
AJMO
Manudge, as my Grammy used to say. I started this, albeit accidentally, so for that I apologize. If it is ok with ATG, I would like this to be the close of the off topic, as I just moderated one for lizzy as well.
I will say this, coming fresh from a Mom’s perspective who just assisted (in the power point and grammer function only, no content, but I read it) on Blinkette’s presentation.
I know exactly what ATG meant. He was saying IN REALITY, not necessarily what is hanging in the Human Resources Supply closet as “best practices.” You are both right. While in cases where a person is otherwise qualified outside of an obesity issue it MIGHT be a form of discrimination, and IT IS wrong, but in fact like it or not, it is also true. However, obesity is not in any form considered a disability as a civil rights violation.
You are about to see how sorry I am for starting this when I share what I feel obligated to because I don’t want anyone to think this is not an important issue for another time and another place so to speak- but after herniating discs in my lower back last December, I was all but incapacitated with the exception of regular daily activity that required frequent rests. Outside of a torn miniscus and a concussion a few years back, this was a severely painful and debilitating injury that had me on my azz for real until some progress last month. At my doctor visit, I had gained about 10 lbs in 4 months, and was assessed as overweight in the BMI “code”. Am I obese or even close, no- but I am completely and utterly uncomfortable with my level of fitness, my self image as a result, and the knowledge that I am going to have to work almost as hard at my patience levels as I do the right exercise regimen or I will re-injure and start all over. It is excruciating for me at this age, I admit it.
I also admit my new crush on Dr. Oz. Wellness feeds every part of us, and every part of us differently, but it starts there.
I can remember after having my babies what it felt like to try and fit into my old duds, this is different when your bundle of joy is already 3 inches taller than you at 13, lol.
It is not about discrimination for me because I have yet to ever hear an obese ( I mostly refer to morbidly here) say if they had one wish it would be a pastrami on rye double decker. Everyone I have ever heard would wish to be thin, thinner, or to lose the weight. For whatever reason, whether that be ultimate health, body image, to fit in, etc.
My concern, which I should say is now the first lady’s primary platform, is childhood obesity.
I am very concerned that not addressing the very real issues associated with obesity we are discussing or sugar coating them will result in inaction. Those kids are at high risk and deserve to know both the REALITY and the PERCEPTION issues and decide, together with their parents or guardians, that a lifestyle choice is appropriate and immediate. It is so prolific in fact, that courts are REMOVING custody of children in some circumstances where the parents have refused to act or acknowledge the needs of a child in that situation.
So I confessed to being overweight in this post, I acknowledged everyone of you that commented on my O/T obesity issue and how proud I am to be among people that care enough to do so, and I am apologizing for anyone reading this that is just trying to advocate and not add issue to their plate, (ba dump bump) pun intended.
Heart u all, back to topic.
B
Monkeybunny says:
May 22, 2012 at 8:31 pm
Thank you for giving me a different perspective
OSUfan says:
May 23, 2012 at 7:42 am
Quite plausible I can see this being the case.
Blink wrote:
I am very, very curious about what bio evidence may have been found in Isa’s room, and if any weapon was used to subdue the female victim of the sex assault that occurred in Tanque Verde.
B
Yes Blink the search warrant sealed – that is perplexing too did they find something that prompted them to specifically search for something? Are they working on a theory of a perp based on evidence found in either case or both?
Perhaps the two cases are connected and thats what LE was referring to when they said (PP)there is a lot of evidence we just need to tie it together…
Prayers for Isa and all
AJMO
Remember in the 911 call made by Sergio ?
Operator: What was she wearing ???
Sergio: Before she went to bed ???
What does he mean by before she went to bed?? As opposed to what ? Ater she went to bed ?? His owns words continue to make him suspect to LE…
Tarheel says:
May 23, 2012 at 12:29 pm
I can’t seem to wrap my head around Isabel being taken by a stranger at the time the neighbor heard the men talking and the dogs barking (6:38 a.m. I believe). How would a stranger know that Isabel was alone in her room? How would a stranger know that no one else in the house would be awake (even if they had watched the mom leave for work)? How would a stranger know which room was Isabels?
Then I start thinking that maybe the men talking and the dogs barking at 6:38 a.m. (as reported by the neighbor), was the father and others looking for Isabel. But if that were the case, why would a 911 call not be placed until 8:00?
I can’t believe that a stranger would kidnap/abduct/remove a child from their bedroom at that time of day. So I’m left with either Isabel was removed much earlier in the night or my suspicions have to fall on the father being involved or at least knowing more.
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My thought is that the men were Isa’s relatives and wanted to make sure she didn’t just wander off before calling 911. But, I could be wrong.
I think Isa was taken while it was still dark outside, long before the neighbor heard the men in the alley. Predators can and do enter homes they haven’t cased before, and burglarize or abduct children when there are others in the home. The tragic case of Polly Klaas comes to mind, but there are others. Polly was having a slumber party and her mom was home, but the predator intimidated the other girls into not telling the mom that Polly was abducted for a significant period of time, iirc.
Still praying and hoping for Isa’s safe return.
Bingo, Florida Girl 5/23 at 1:32pm. I’m glad you mentioned that exchange between the operator and Sergio Celis because I think it points to guilt and foreknowledge.
Isa may not have ‘gone to bed’ at all. I’ve wondered why her attire has been mentioned as shorts and tank top–excepting for her brother’s thought that she would be wearing green or pink pajamas, as usual–because she would have taken a shower and not put on the dirty clothes she had worn to the baseball game.
It’s rare to let a child sleep in their playclothes, in my opinion, if there is any oversight at all by the caregivers.
Even Becky, in her 911 call, describes Isa as last being seen in playclothes. BC sounds convincingly frantic in her call, but I feel confused about the clothing.
If Isa didn’t shower, had her hair braided, and was told to put her pajamas on, did anyone check on her, kiss her goodnight, tuck her in?
Could be.
The comment on the 911 call regarding the clothing. It was one of many slips he has made in this case. I’m certain LE and or FBI caught it immediately. As Blink indicated before, LE is hanging on every word. It is almost in the same category as an excited utterance and LE loves those…
I think that’s why there is confusion regarding the clothing and it is important..
@Tarheel says:
May 23, 2012 at 12:29 pm
I can’t seem to wrap my head around Isabel being taken by a stranger at the time the neighbor heard the men talking and the dogs barking (6:38 a.m. I believe). How would a stranger know that Isabel was alone in her room? How would a stranger know that no one else in the house would be awake (even if they had watched the mom leave for work)? How would a stranger know which room was Isabels?
Then I start thinking that maybe the men talking and the dogs barking at 6:38 a.m. (as reported by the neighbor), was the father and others looking for Isabel. But if that were the case, why would a 911 call not be placed until 8:00?
I can’t believe that a stranger would kidnap/abduct/remove a child from their bedroom at that time of day. So I’m left with either Isabel was removed much earlier in the night or my suspicions have to fall on the father being involved or at least knowing more.
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A neighbor reported the dogs barking at approx. 6:30am. SC stated he did not check on Isa until approx. 8:am when he found her missing and called 911. Something caused the dogs to bark at 6:30am which leads me to believe that could be when the child was taken. I’m not convinced she was taken through the window tho because the abduction may have been staged.. “things aren’t always what they appear to be”.
wpg says:
May 23, 2012 at 8:21 am
Still cannot get past the, imo, discrepancy from the redacted 911 tapes provided by LE along with the the dispatch calls played on JVM, on what Isabel was last seen wearing – – pink tank top vs blue tank top.
******
I have gone over this in my head all day. It leaves me with a sick feeling. It would be understandable that either the mom or dad could make a mistake, in a time of urgency, on what Isabel was last seen in. If her pink top is gone but the blue one still there that would help answer the question or vice versa on what she was wearing. Even if both tops were not there she could have both on and the public should know on the Missing Poster. If both tops were found wouldn’t Mom or Dad know what clothes were missing? Wouldn’t they say possible wearing such and such… Did she leave that house with no clothes on? I just don’t even want to think about that being the case. Did the abducter bring clothes or was she just taken in a blanket. If that is the case it does not sound like a hoax of any kind to me. JMO
Ode,
Yes, I’ve been thinking more of the clothing scenarios, too.
If both tops were eventually found in the house by LE, then for me, the calm behavior of the parents, their lack of urgency, and the number of times they have been “public” out of the 30+ days their daughter has been gone is even more “bewildering”.
The baseball fundraiser where a white-plastic-frames-sunglassed SC laughed with the it’s fun comment was also inappropriate to me . . . hugely so.
There is a reason/are reasons why the parents have not been cleared by LE, imo.