Jodi Arias Trial Verdict IS IN: GUILTY Of MURDER In The Slaying Of Travis Alexander
Image courtesy Arias
Phoenix, AZ- In the 4 month long trial of Jodi Ann Arias for the murder of her brief boyfriend Travis Victor Alexander, the jury deliberating since last Friday has arrived at a verdict in her case. Arias was found guilty of the pre-meditated murder of Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008.
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Grace
I certainly do recall the case in 1996 about the stabbing of the two boys by the mother.
I am so sorry that the jury could not reach a verdict. My prayers to the Alexander family. They have experienced some very rough and tough things in their lives and overcome them. They are strong and will not let this stop them from being the best they can be.
I have not watched Dr. Drew to check JVM’s appearance. When you put enough hair spray into hair like JVM it looks like a helmet rather than hair. Then we have the false eyelashes that appear as small paint brushes. The entire HLN crew need to hire a quality appearance consultant.
This breaks my heart. If juries are subject to this kind of treatment after rendering a verdict (or non-verdict as the case may be) then our justice system is truly broken. How can anyone who finds themselves in a “high profile” case ever get a fair trial when the juries are under so much pressure? It’s really sad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhiT2X0J0Cc&feature=youtu.be
If they choose a new jury, it is very likely Arias will need to testify and not allocute as she did in this one, and I am not convinced as most are that as much as I hate this outcome, it is temporary.
B
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trying to understand!
do you mean that:
if there is a new jury, Arias will have to go under oath, as opposed to being allowed to speak ” freely” as she did when allocating.?
So is there a different procedure for the penalty phase when a new jury is put in place?
I am not clear what you mean when you say ” and I am not convinced as most are that as much as I hate this outcome, it is temporary”
please illuminate!
In the meantime I wil try to find some links expaling what arizona law says about procedures for second juries in penalty phase…
meant to say allocating, not allocating.. although frankly she allocates blame everywhere but herself!
allocuting. NOT allocating! darn autocorrect only works when I don’t want it to!
Rose says:
May 23, 2013 at 8:51 pm
Not to detract from events of today, but @GraceitHills, did you see this interview in full?
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/articles/20130520jodi-arias-darryl-brewer-interview.html
~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, drat! I typed a somewhat lengthy response, but in disappeared! Rose, you bring some good points, so I will try this again tomorrow when I am awake and can focus.
Hope everyone has a safe and relaxing Memorial Day weekend.
I will be remembering my Uncle Tommy who died in Vietnam on his 21st birthday.
We love and miss him beyond all measure.
I will say a prayer for Uncle Tommy and all our beloved past and present service members, thank you for sharing that Grace.
B
I have respect for this jury. they put in almost half a year and most accounts say they’ve been attentive the entire time. they asked questions of every witness, many very insightful questions as well. they weren’t fooled by Jodi, they conceded on what her deal was and what the murder was pretty quick.
then they were faced with the decision based on a lot more than evidence and facts applied to law. deciding death on a case with a murderer worthy of the death penalty, yet not the status quo. jodi killed one person who enraged her over time. death row is typically those who kill many, rape and kill children or kill strangers out of the blue, just for fun.
as i said before, what makes jodi more death qualified than her horrific act, is her…the lies and the way she acts. she’s as unlikable as ted bundy was likable. im sure when it got down to it, those 4 people didn’t feel the death penalty was for the right reasons. or maybe some felt that putting her away for life would just be the end of her- to the rest of us. death row would only make her more infamous, and more future media blitzes every few years she pops up with her appeal.life without parole, would just make her disapear into the system and end these proceedings for the family ….for good. that is what martinez should negotiate. it would be worth it for the family to not go through this again and just know she out of their lives..for the rest of her life.
taking the risk of posting this–a long interview with Brewer, present to testify in mitigation & what he would have said.
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/articles/20130520jodi-arias-darryl-brewer-interview.html
this is a gamechanger for me wrt Nurmi’s representation. He further says there were many others in Monterey ready to testify, some voluntered, & counsel made no effort. So why was the one person Nurmi sat strung out in Court & was gonna put out there an irresponsible junkie while he stalked this guy outside the courtroom? Imo Nurmi I can only speculate was seeking the lowest possible defense (thinking back to LaV & Samuels in that category as well). To be honest, after hearing this guy I was even thinking payola from a cult (and I don’t think the Mormons are the only cult involved). Or simply counsel wanted Arias to fry; don’t. blame him.
After seeing Brewer, he identified 3 strands that entirely changed Arias’ thinking (magical he calls it) & behavior in 18 months. First the proselytizing going in with Arias (and I don’t mean by Travis but by whoever he took her to) was unique I think to that geographic group. My middle/high schooler studied intimately with a Mormon, a classic one–big families & mission trips–and ge never tried to proselytize her. My personal belief is it’s a classic cult, but I was happy in high school she had a clean living role model for whatever reason, tho one of his professional work site peers cautioned me against him (lifestyle–megatithing, eating MacDonalds from Paris to Buenos Aires). Obviously Arias’ Mormon “youth group” didn’t share that abstemious lifestyle. Anyway, if Brewer is right, I think much of Arias’ behavior change & magical thinking came either from her own internal Axis I illness OR there is another as yet unidentified cult or cult figure revolving around this law of attraction magical thinking as Brewer calls it.
Last week I saw a slick new magazine “Law of Attraction” on my grocery store display. I didn’t have to pick it up & examine to surmise it emanated from some sort of New Age cult. I got to wonder so about cult impact on Arias (in which I theorized Travis came to represent to her psychotically all the negativity & feelings if evil within herself as well as all the “wrong” she felt she’d done, , I started looking up Patty Hearst, a young woman with “Stockholm syndrome” which differs, but immersion in cult thinking can lead to unnatural violent acts. Farfetched I know, but Hearst came out of it with treatment & a strong male attachment whom she married. And Arias’ mother in the arrest interview coukd’ve been talking about the very changed person Brewer discusses.
I am very glad Nurmi & Willmot are off. Anyone actually trying a mitigation case has to reach out to Brewer & the others he refers to in Monterey who were ready to testify. And as he says, “She needs help.” She needs a deprogrammer re the “law of attraction” cult-like belief system. She needs assessment for Axis I. And if they are true believers in DV, they need someone competent, but that’s a loser defense.
missed this in proofreading: “while he stalked this guy ”
Brewer used the word “stalled” outside the Courtroom
I just have to say…DBrewer gives me the heebie jeebies.
I don’t care if that’s not a real word. Thats all I can say.
Now where is MM?
I found him very truthful and very articulate so I have no idea why exactly, but I agree. I mean no disrespect, but I apologize if it is a guilt by association thing.
B
i am happy that the jury came to a verdict in the penalty and aggravating phase. it is disappointing that they couldn’t unanimously decide in the penalty phase but I can understand it. I think the ones who wanted life just believed maybe she was too crazy to be put on death row. I am wondering what the prosecutors office will decide in regards to the next phase, but IMO, they should go for it. The worst that could happen is LWOP and JSS deciding, and I strongly believe JSS will give her LWOP. Also, her post verdict interviews could be brought in. I think maybe they will change the venue to the Tucson area but I also know i’m getting wayyyy far ahead of myself. I have only been to arizona a few times and it was to visit friends at ASU, but I know a lot of the state is very conservative. I truly believe this woman deserves the death penalty, but then at the same time, in the long run I could see it being overturned on appeals and commuted to life anyway based on appelate issues during the guilt/innocence phase… sorry for the rambling post. prayers to the alexanders and travis. i thank the jury for handing down the proper verdict of first degree murder with an aggravator.
GraceintheHills says:
May 24, 2013 at 1:03 am
God bless your Uncle, dear friendy! Blessed is the man who lays down his life for a friend. Big big hugs and love to you! xo
After thoughts…
If the roles were reversed but the story was the same, Travis would have gotten the death penalty. I was angered (very) to learn, from CNN, that the foreman believed Travis was verbally and physically abusive. No proof…but the lies were bought. I don’t see justice in the defense….ANY DEFENSE being able to conjure up lies to save their client. There’s really stupid people out there that believe this. Baez was flapping his gums on HLN, last night (put on mute shortly there afterwards) how Casey faced the same possibility of having an impartial jury. REALLY? He’s gonna go there after she was acquitted of murdering their child?
I can’t stand it. Now these people will get on line and learn the truth.
It’s not fair Travis’ character was on the defense along with his killer. That’s gotta change. The ability to throw innocent people under the bus, especially without proof, needs to change.
Travis can’t come back to redeem his character b/c of the damage Jodi caused to save her life. I can’t put that aspect of this trial, to rest. It’s, of all things, unjust.
In some ways, Jodi won, just like c word….and they wonder why they’re despised. How did JA put it to a report….are you a hater too? Ah…YEAH. What you did isn’t exactly something to be glorified.
Send me the bill
@ATG
“I have not watched Dr. Drew to check JVM’s appearance. When you put enough hair spray into hair like JVM it looks like a helmet rather than hair. Then we have the false eyelashes that appear as small paint brushes. The entire HLN crew need to hire a quality appearance consultant.”
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Sorry, I just choked on my coffee….you all are waaaaay to funny!
After nearly five months in court I think the jurors were flat worn out with the offtimes repetitious testimony. Then in closing Willmott standing behind Jodi and touching her shoulders asking the jury “Do you kill her?” was a powerful statement because when it came right down to it some of them couldn’t. If the DP isn’t taken off the table I’m afeared history will repeat itself. The Alexander family may have to live with life (with or without) parole. It’s heartbreaking!
Jury Foreman speaks:
http://gma.yahoo.com/video/arias-jury-foreman-couldnt-allow-141202094.html
well, here is a article from Arizona press that refers to what can happen next.. including apparent quote from Willmott
http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/free/20130523jodi-arias-hung-jury-mistrial.html.
and here is an article from Findlaw, about the hung jury in Arias case.. Some repetitions of facts from the AZ central article but additional info. as well,
Between these two articles, seems like all bases covered as far as what can happen next.
http://news.findlaw.com/apnews-lp/7709f80dde5f4069b7afe9209bef1270
Hello, I am new to posting on this site but have been reading content and comments for a while now…I wanted to chime in on Rose’s comment above about Darryl Brewer. I did watch the entire interview and also agree he should’ve been used in mitigation. I believe him when he says Jodi changed. I also wonder why? The only thing I cant quite (what’s the word???…..) RECTIFY or RESOLVE is the HUGE age gap between them. To me, it seems VERY strange that a man in his late 40′s (if 52 now) with a young son and coming out of a divorce would get into a serious relationship with a very, VERY young woman. Jodi would have needed to be 21/22 when they began dating if they dated 4 years and she murdered Travis at 27 years old. It really makes me question HIS mental faculties (though he does appear to be quite nice albeit a little awkward, imo). He is 20 years older. It also provides insight for me into Jodi. I have long speculated that Travis was encouraged by Jodi to engage in the fantasy of the “young girl” talk on the sex tape. The braids she wore and such….To me, it is quite likely SHE introduced that context in their sexual relationship. Its clear she liked much older men. A beautiful, supposedly intelligent and responsible, articulate and charming young woman in her 20′s dating a man in his 40′s? I’m just saying it smells funny.
Sorry I am not as versed and articulate as so many of you:) But I DO love all of your insight! I do hope this okay to post.
Amanda
I feel this jury paid attention ,took notes ,asked questions
And still could not get a verdict on life or death
All threw this case it seemed something was missing to me
It was, and still is. How it goes from photo session to a heinous slaughter- I am still not wrapped around it.
B
As unpopular as it seems, if I were on the jury, I would have initially voted for life. I wouldn’t necessarily be a lone hold-out, but at least initially I would voted to save her life:
1) Based on evidence presented in court, I believe this was a crime of passion, Evidence not presented leads me towards a more complex scenario, but this information was not available to the jury.
2) No prior criminal record. Her first 26 years were not what any of us would wish for our daughters, but there was no pattern of violence.
3) As we say down South, “she ain’t right in the head”. She is not insane, she knows right from wrong, but she isn’t normal either.
4) The Alexander-Arias relationship was dysfunctional. Despite all the arguments made in the media and online, only 2 people know what the relationship was really like: one of them is dead and the other is a nut job.
I would have voted for Murder 1 and cruelty, but against the death penalty. The members of this jury did their jobs. I suspect both the “DP” members and the “life” members had rational arguments, and both sides stuck to their guns during deliberation. I find it very offensive when online posters insult the intelligence or integrity of the jurors.
JA’s interviews would not have influenced my decision.
I also suspect that Juan Martinez’s prosecutorial style may have worked against him in the penalty phase. He made an argument that would have been quite successful if prosecuting a gang member or drug dealer. Unfortunately, many people have a visceral negative reaction when a grown man verbally attacks a slight young woman. If he elects to retry the penalty phase, he will need to modify his argument and explain to the jury why she should be sentenced to death despite the fact that she looks mental but harmless sitting in the courtroom.
What bothers me most is that apparently there were many people willing to testify for JA in the penalty phase. DB’s testimony that JA changed significantly after being exposed to PPL might have been a game-changer in the penalty phase – we’ll never know. The DT strategy makes no sense, I guess it is better to be lucky than good.
@whodunnit, thanks for the links. Looks like Wilmott and Nurmi will be remaining on as her attorneys.
Also, Ragdoll, what I remember hearing was that the foreman did not believe physical abuse but did think there was verbal and emotional abuse. This I can understand from the text messages. Although, I would wager a sizable bet that there was undocumented provocation ie a phone call with her vileness shining through. I do not think for a minute there was any abuse.
Although the jury foreman doesn’t disclose his vote, I’ve heard he voted for life.
http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/6389-jodi-ariass-juror-opens-up-about-trial
Here is a link to the jury foreman. If they did not know a mistrial would be called when they could not reach a dicision, I wonder if there was just some confusion and they would have deliberated longer until they could be unanimous.
What I can’t understand is how the 4 that could not give her death, vote to say it was cruel enough to continue onwith the penalty phase including death Am I the only one that can’t make any sense of that.
Because I am so flummoxed by all the psychological diagnosis and references to same that have been discussed on this site, I have never joined in for those discussions.
And because this is late in the game to bring this up- and it may well have been brought up before-apolies up front… but..
did all the testing done on Arias rule out any possibility of multiple personalities? I feel silly even asking, but am thinking about the Daryl Brewer interview and the jury foremen saying that the Arias he saw on the stand “just didn’t wash” with the person who committed the heinous crime she was accused of, the change in her appearance, the way she initially ascribed the act to “the intruders”, her continuing claim of amnesia of stabbing, and her general dissociation…….
I am assuming DID has been ruled out long ago, and beg patience if this is a question that was considered and disregarded by those much more in the know than I, but I was just wondering!
Based on the information from an interview with the foreman, I believe that he was not able to apply an unbiased assessment of the law as it was presented. Many men cannot apply the same standards to a woman as they do to a man.
The 18 days Jodi spent on the witness stand, apparently affected the judgement of at least four of the jurors. The foreman passed this off as the law was too complicated for them to clearly understand. He further stated that “they were not lawyers”. This an excuse that they could not do their job.
It appears that the judge failed to make them understand their task. JM in his closing went over some of the same issues.
It appears that the State will try again with a new jury in July.
Maybe we need a new jury process regarding DP cases. Where the court spends some time explaining the penalty phase and asking questions of each persons ability to apply the facts regarding the case regardless of their personal views.
Darn, I tried to post a comment and it didn’t clear moderation I suppose? Bummer, I was curious to hear people’s thoughts.
I love this site anyhow!
Oh wait! There it is! Sorry.
ATG: don’t get me wrong, there are cases I can think of where I wanted to jump up and put the needle in the defendant’s arm myself. Cases involving children for example. Johnathan and Reginald Carr for example I would gladly have sentenced to death, or the guy that killed Jessica Lunsford. Certain forms of torture inflicted upon victims in their deaths haunt me, I chose to watch parts of their trial and it kept me awake for weeks, trying to imagine the torture inflicted upon those people and being unable to conceive of that much terror, fear and pain. It also really angered me when the Carr bros. attorneys tried to use their abuse as children as reason to save their lives. Though I know the statistics on children abused becoming abusers themselves, I would hope that one would have more compassion for others’ pain if they had experienced it themselves. (I also know plenty of people who suffered abuse and none of them went on to abuse others.) Maybe it’s that rape, and particularly severe or brutal rape, or murder of children triggers something more in me when it comes to the death penalty.
Having said that, I do think that if Jodi gets LWOP, she will be able to do more damage from her cell than she would on death row. I can actually see her trying to use her skills at manipulation against other inmates, perhaps to charm them, or against guards to seduce them. I could also see her having a lot of penpals and/or suitors/possible marks for her to prey on. (Although a death row suite doesn’t preclude this either – I believe this has been Scott Peterson’s main hobby since being incarcerated on death row).
whodunnit – my religious and philosophical views on the Bible and God are a little different from yours and continue to change as I get older and see more. I am open-minded but always changing my mind. I try to incorporate new evidence as it comes. I respect your views, and given what I just said about the Carr bros, certainly agree that there are cases where people do not deserve to continue to live. It is nonetheless never easy to make that call and I don’t envy the jurors’ position right now. The fact that they took the time to consider it so carefully and that there were some who would not move on their positions, and put the needle in her arm, to me is a good thing, it shows that no matter how much process or administrative rulemaking takes place, it’s ultimately humans making decisions about other humans, of that it is a hard decision to decide the fate of another human that should not to be taken lightly. I think I’d be more worried if they came back with a death vote after an hour. Though, (and forgive me I haven’t read the entire thread of comments), I thought that in DP states where DP is a possible sentence, potential jurors before they are paneled are asked if they would be able to or capable of voting for the death penalty if the find the person guilty. Maybe it’s not required in AZ?
John Evander Couey, and that case will haunt me forever.
B
(p.s. please forgive my lack of awareness/knowledge in this area – I have spent my life in a DP-free state, where the sentence for first degree murder is an automatic LWOP. The issue discussed here is primarily whether youthful offenders should be given LWOP).
A Washington Post article that sheds some light on the jury diliberations. This article is consistent with TG’s comments.
http://m.washingtonpost.com/national/arias-trial-jury-foreman-says-death-decision-unfair-for-12-average-people-who-arent-lawyers/2013/05/24/04681a78-c4d0-11e2-9642-a56177f1cdf7_story.html
Am I correct that the jury should have been focused on mitigating factors, those factors that would sway them from a death penalty to life? Can just anything from the trial be considered mitigating? I thought it had to meet certain criteria be mitigating. For example, Martinez argued that in her case age was not a mitigating factor because she was old enough to have proper judgement.
ATG
The 2011 revisions of instructions for the jury regarding the penalty phase are actually pretty confusing… They seem to say it is up to the individual in the jury to form his/her own conclusions from their own perceptions of what has been presented…. and that it is not neccessary for the defendant to present any mitigation for the jury to find mitigating circumstances…. it says they have a duty to talk to each other, but they don’t have to change their opinions… many of the instructions seem to contradict themsleves at first glance..
if you scroll down to the end of this document ( for the penalty phase) you will see what I mean.
http://www.azbar.org/media/58847/4-capital_case_instructions_revised_2011.pdf
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Could it be that battle fatigue set in, that those four jurors had a visceral reaction to Martinez aggressive style and identified with the mousy brown haired soft spoken near sighted girl on the stand?
Did THEY want their freedom??
http://www.azcentral.com/video/2407451853001
http://www.azcentral.com/video/#/New…/2407461515001
Seems to be missing parts?
The jurors could not give her death because she is an attractive young woman.if the defendant was male,had stabbed a woman 29 times and nearly decapitated her over a few nasty emails and a sex tape,what do you think the jury would do? Let’s be real here. If Jodi was unattractive, or a woman of color or from the hood, she would have gotten death.Jodi hid her mental illness and sociopathy for many years. It boiled over with rage when finally rejected by Travis. NO
woman of 27 years drives hundreds of miles and moves close to an abuser of any kind. It does not happen that way.She worked the jury for all those months.Side pony and wispy bangs, looking like a young, innocent girl. She was in shock when she was convicted,she said they “betrayed” her. Shows how nuts she is.But in the end she got what she always wanted,one more chance.
Lyndsay
This is not an issue regarding the age of the offender. It is the issue of applying the law of a particular state. Jodi was 27 years old when she committed this crime. Every state has their own set of laws as passed in the state legislature. Many are similar, but not exact in language. The law recognizes that a person is of legal age for most things at age 18. Therefore, it is also recognized that one of that age or more know the difference between right and wrong. The only exceptions would be if the person was so mentally damaged they would not be able to function in society.
There was enough evidence to convince the jurors that first degree murder and felony murder as set out in the law of Arizona were met.
The last task of this jury was the penalty phase. They did a good job up to that point.
There are some people who by their nature cannot order the death of another no matter how bad the crime. This jury had four that fit that description although in the beginning they stated to the court that they could do it.
The judge was absolutely stunned that they could not reach a verdict. She had to stop to gather herself before continuing the talk thanking and dismissing the jurors.
The state spent probably more than two million dollars conducting this trial. We the people of Arizona are the ones who pay for it. It costs about thirty-five thousand dollars a year to house an inmate in a state prison. Jodi could live to age seventy or more. That is another two and one-half million that the people must pay.
The costs alone should be sufficient to issue the death penalty. If I were making the law, there would be one automatic appeal to be completed within ninety days. If that appeal were found to verify the decision of the lower court, the person found guilty would suffer a public hanging five days after the appeal was overturned.
That may sound harsh, but I believe that all who kill another for whatever reason should be dispatched to meet our maker as soon as possible. The system isn’t perfect and sometimes an innocent is sent to death, but not often.
If it was found that an office of the law or court withheld evidence in a case that would have changed the verdict, that person or persons should be given the death penalty no later that five days of finding such an act happened.
We have a recent case in Williamson County, Texas where a County DA withheld evidence so he could put a star in his DA war-chest and receive an appointment to a district judge. He will get life in prison, but IMO he and those that helped him should get the death penalty.
ATG: please understand, I know that the DP issue in Arizona is not a matter of age. I was merely stating an example of what the prevailing criminal justice issue for debate in my non-DP state, because we don’t have the DP there are other matters that people concern themselves with. And also, why I am not as well versed in DP case procedures.
And you are wrong about innocent people not being sentenced to death often. To date there have been 307 post-conviction DNA exonerations, with the first one taking place in 1989. 18 of the 307 persons exonerated through DNA had been on death row. 16 more were sentenced for capital murder but did not receive the death penalty. Again, this is only since 1989 – the fact remains that we don’t know how many executed before then were actually innocent. Black men since the end of slavery received swift and severe punishments with none or suspicious evidence. You could basically say “I saw a black guy do it” as an eyewitness and someone would hang for it. Or, you would just be lynched. The Scottsboro case introduced due process for good reason. So I don’t agree with you, and I don’t think I’d want to live in a society that executes people by public hanging. It doesn’t matter what you think of the person who committed the crime – it’s still horrific and barbaric. It scares me a little that you would actually want to see this happen.
I cannot contest your opinion regarding wrongful convictions, in fact, I agree strongly.
A few years ago I was invited to work with “that group” that even I roll my eyes at that in 2008 claimed over 208 freed wrongly incarcerated individuals. For me, at the time, I held the position that for the most part, people don’t end up in jail for no reason, and if they were wrongly convicted they likely would have ended up there anyhow. I realize that probably seems very hard-line for me, but I can confirm 2 years of post-grad work with specificity in sexual predators, violent offenders, forensics and crime scene analysis and all the associated subcategories- has only served to harden my stance overall.
Let me be plain- there are some freaky, seriously ill and deviant people in our society that we are not aware of, do not catch in time to intervene or remove from society and there are almost no agencies tasked presently in the studies of same. The Behavioral Analysis Unit of the FBI (BAU) is almost completely reactionary or diluted for task force use on high risk areas like counter terrorism, gangs, mid-range domestic drug production, etc.
You have 3 young women, all abducted, found 11 years later in the home of a man a wrongly accused man gave them the name of who was never so much as contacted, apparently.
Is it a fair assessment to say that I am way more concerned about the danger to society over what is not given attention in my view, as opposed to what is being spent on DNA testing to free what is in many cases, persons with extensive criminal backgrounds who DNA exonerated post conviction of the instant matter. I completely get that my attitude would be different potentially if a friend or loved one found themselves on the opposite side of that.
This problem unfortunately has layers on it’s layers. It begins at the Social services level and the onion peels for all until it lands on the supreme court.
My opinion on the dp as I have stated previously, is that if I am convinced of guilt through my own analysis tools and inventories, based on the nature of the crime, and on a situational basis, I believe strongly in capital punishment, and I would like it to take a lot less time to be enforced. Clearly our due process is not structured preventatively nor is it learning from it’s errors- so in the end, I have to say that until it does, it remains somewhat of a collattarl damage issue for me…
UNTIL
You factor what I work strongly toward. Advocacy and prevention education and – all your and my gifts of fear. When wrongful prosecution occurs, it allows dangerous offenders free in our society to re-offend. Having just studied one of most eye-opening and frankly- frightening subjects of violent juvenile and sexually violent offenders I can tell you that criminals are getting smarter and the social services circuit, LE and criminal justice system as a whole are not advancing their learning curve in time, if at all.
We live in a country where the IRS is targeting conservative groups, but will not, will absolutely refuse- to provide the justice department a list of social security numbers of missing individuals that may have been used on tax returns- in many cases, by an abductor.
(please don’t anyone respond to the politics of that issue, I mention only in context of the egregious misuse and apparent disregard for it’s power)
The stats you should all be reading are here: http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245
I guess the question is really how we develop a hamster wheel that generates the combine connected to what?
B
p.s. those 307 exonerations only happened because it was still possible to test the DNA in the case. So you have to factor in the cases in which a person is innocent but can’t prove it because the DNA is no longer usable, wasn’t preserved, or doesn’t exist. I also rge you again to read up on the Scottsboro trial.
@who I do not believe any psychiatrist expert in multiple personality disorder examined her. I do not think a psychiatrist would diagnose that disorder based on a single exam.
Personally, I think we should respect both of this jury’s decisions, collectively and individually. Jurors can in the sight of outsiders err, but it is the nature of our jury system to take 12 people of varying backgrounds, intellects and experiences and accept the result.
After reading around, whether Arias changed dramatically over 18 months as Brewer states or not, there is no doubt in my mind during that time, which began before she met Travis, she became involved in not one but two cults–prepaid legal and a religion– both of which would have placed heavy financial demands on her. It is unfortunate she
moved in with Brewer & lost to the housing crash the $12,000 she’d worked so hard to save. I can see the age difference in a young woman of weak ego (also making her susceptible to cults). My father had 20 years on my mother and my neighborhood has many may-sept marriages. Propinquity in a work environment over time seems an influence with Brewer-Arias. He seems self-absorbed, not unusual forsingles his age.
While Mormons expect a 10% tithe, many give far more. My kid’s teacher’s family pulled in maybe $250k yearly and lived as if it was $60 K yearly. His peer told me he gave most to the church.
You can see from the urls below, PPL is a legal pyramid scheme. It remains to be seen if it’s also a ponzi scheme. I’m willing to bet on it. It seems motivational speakers, not just Travis, capitalize on all their fine attributes, including sex appeal, to draw in people like Arias looking for an organizing set of beliefs. Those two cults, and some Law of Attraction new age guru as yet unidentified, , and Imo in my opinion only, she’d slid into 3 cults.
If I were her mother with wealth, I’d have first hired the best deprogrammer, then the best of psychiatrists. She doesn’t need more testing. She does need intensive treatment. And a competent attorney, tho imo it’s too late now.
Triple kudos to Matthew Armstrong:
http://www.pinktruth.com/2007/08/pre-paid-legal-religion-pyramid-schemes/
TA in his role as a motivational speaker. I quit 1/2 way thru, as using singleness & sexuality for crowd bonding was too much 4 me. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=U5Y55ihmQdM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DU5Y55ihmQdM
http://www.marketwaveinc.com/articles/PPLConcerns.pdf
“What was not included in the article was Mr. Vu’s claim that there would be an all day training that Saturday and the “tuition” was $2,495. However, the first five people that went to the back of the room and enrolled as a PPL associate, for $249, would receive a “free scholarship” to the training. Of course, $184 of the $249 was the training fee, and there never was any $2,495 training. Later, another host reiterated that you would get “free training for $249!” He really said that.”
At the top of PPL’s pyramid:
http://www.teamrenew.com/the-hughes-brothers
Mormons, relocated to Utah now.
Dear ATG,
I am awed by the vast range of subjects and topics with which you not only have experience but a clear depth of knowledge. From weaponry and technology, legalities and statutes, through to geography and cultures.
So, please know, it is only with deepest respect that I ask for clarification regarding “all who kill for whatever reason should be given the death penalty” as it may pertain to military and law enforcement, or even citizens in self defense.
I ask this from the position of my personal conviction that nothing is black or white. All things come in ‘shades of gray’………i.e. If Travis were my son I would insist on injecting this evil woman myself, however, if she were my daughter I would beg for mercy.
Also I believe that the economic costs of ‘getting it right’ do not carry the same weight as ‘sometimes an innocent is sent to death, but not often.’…For me getting it right is a cost of our unmatched commitment to fairness, rights, and justice.
And I offer that my comments juxtaposed with yours is an example of what makes this the greatest system of governance and citizenry in history.
Again, all the above with sincere and deep respect…and of course IMO….(had to get an abbreviation in somewhere..:)
Hmm… Yea- I think the Foreman’s comments are a little troubling. I guess I can say he is stressed right now, has media in his face etc etc. But other than that- his remarks are a bit concerning.
*he wants to talk with Jodi-
*added physical size as a mitigator-
*he stated that she was normal for her first 27 yrs of life- (oh who said that? I have been waiting patiently to hear anything about that)
*he found her perfectly normal on the stand
* the public doesn’t understand-( well we have been watching listening and then some- so yes we do- despite the lock-up they have had- kudos for all of that)
I have to stop- too early in the day to cause me to cry- it is amazing to me how people can see things so differently. So differently. I have read that some could watch the video of her slitting his throat and there would be an excuse made for why that must be an accident and it wasn’t her fault of course. Maybe it the TV perspective, the up close view, watching her out of the jurys purview that allows us to see the psychopath emerge- she held that from them for the most part- that has to be it.
Also- we do this as a living, as a survivor, a hobby or a-what-not and have a familiarity with these sick people, this may be their first time, just trying to figure how one cannot see what causes so many to recoil through the telewaves and yet they cannot see 3 ft in front of them the manipulation and lies. I think they all believed Alyce.
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/jodi-arias-juror-interview-foreman-speaks-out-about-trial-trouble-in-sentencing-phase
Well I see that I did not include the link in my previous post. Sorry folks. It was the jury foreman being interviewed and saying that they were horrified that the judge called a mis trial. Because of that I felt there was some confusion. After reading through the instructions posted by Whodunnit, I can see where there would be confusion. Apparently the instructions they actually got included the option of not being able to agree in addition to the choice of life or death. I can see why they may not have known a mis trial would be called. In the instructions it says that they are to let the judge know if they cannot agree.
Blink, is LE sure, and did evidence show, pictures that day were taken with his camera and not hers? Arias was apparently in Hughes’ pod or whatever it’s called, as was Travis. This was a very enmeshed, closed system to me. I can see Arias taking her own camera and going to Travis for the purpose of taking sexual pictures to go on to show Hughes’ (not go to Ryan’s) as part of breaking out of this system and obtaining revenge on its members, and taunting Travis with that. Of course that’s outside the box of the fine “she snuck in, and they never had sex that day”, theory.
The best I can offer with my analysis is to say from the evidence presented, without the forensic chain of custody proof through extraction and analysis by an expert, there is no way what was presented can be construed as conclusive as to what camera was used, whether or not the card itself was loaded through another process available to it, or if some pics were taken with both cameras. A proper defense team would have likely had that entire card data thrown out. I would not say that theory is in contradiction to they never had sex that day theory- I don’t believe Travis knew she was taking those shower pictures at all until he turns and looks at her for whatever reason, and then sits on the floor.
She went there that day associated with whatever extortion she was up to regarding pics, Cd’s, fake stolen phones or whatever else this moonbat was doing to stay connected to this man. In her post conviction interviews, it seems she is sticking with the tryst story, and one can see why.
It was compromised, and I believe the defense tried to pull the dual-use strategy at the end but got shut down when JM agreed to the stipulation regarding the “iris” reflection. In other words, they needed her as an invited guest initially, but once the jury already believed that, how do we expose the errors to our benefit and unring just the sound of the prosecutions bell, not ours.
That said, as I have always said, and now recently a very prominent criminal defense attorney pal of mine has finally acquiesced, “I did not think so before, but I do believe you were correct that the strategy was appellate.” They are going to be lining up for this girl’s appeal.
B
Yes, the strategy was appellate, but so poorly executed
by Mr Nurmi, due to the penalty do over,
appeal will be limited & unsuccessful imo.
I believe a lot of money went from Arias to both
PPL & Church, and obtaining same back from Alexander & Hughes (probably
both were targets) was great incentive to explain extortion and revenge. She kept
good records, why wasn’t every dime put in the record by JM?
whodunnit says:
May 24, 2013 at 6:58 pm
Because I am so flummoxed by all the psychological diagnosis and references to same that have been discussed on this site, I have never joined in for those discussions.
And because this is late in the game to bring this up- and it may well have been brought up before-apolies up front… but..
did all the testing done on Arias rule out any possibility of multiple personalities?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Great question, Who, as even “Dr. Drew” initially wondered if this might be a possible diagnosis. No, there is no test for this extremely rare and controversial disorder, now called Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). DID is believed to be precipitated by severe, repetitive emotional and/or physical trauma. Although it is not that uncommon for forensic psychiatrists to see at least one malingered (faked) case of DID in their careers, no one I know has ever diagnosed it.
Remember the movie “Sybil?” The real Sybil came forward later and said she faked the different personalities to get more attention from her psychiatrist, Dr. Wilber. Many psychiatrists familiar with Sybil’s case now believe she had borderline personality disorder.
And, remember, JA does not have amnesia for the killing. If you have seen the interview with Det. Flores in which she is claiming that a male and female ninja killed Travis, she mentions Travis down on the floor on all fours, holding his right hand up to his head, and calling out for help. She also tells the detective that Travis told her he couldn’t feel his legs and that there was blood everywhere. Sounds to me that she was able to form memories during that time.
Well I do think that there were people wrongly convicted pre DNA. Many comments in fact say that it is the DNA that freed those that were wrongly convicted. IMHO, since there is DNA and advancements in forensics, the odds of someone being wrongly convicted now are diminished significantly. Although a good argument against death penalty or any other sentence for that matter, to me no longer applies. I wonder if there are any stats for people wrongly convicted post DNA and other advancements forensically.
Thank you Jeff D for your comments.
Sometimes writing versus speaking does not convey the exact message intended. The concept of taking the life of another person for selfish reasons or anger is the thing that this thread is discussing.
Yes, soldiers and LE personnel have to take a life to win a war or a battle as do those that protect us a best they can from those that would harm us or themselves. That is an entire different matter.
I believe you would beg for mercy regarding your daughter if she committed a crime as did Jodi. The problem is do we automatically create a class of people because of their gender that are not punishable as is another gender?
Some have a hard time with my concept of hanging as a method of delivering the death penalty. Society over the centuries has tried many methods. We have the ancient method of beheading, then the Roman method of crucifixion, the French method of the guillotine a method of beheading, hanging, the use of a firing squad, the electric chair and a mix of drugs that have been used as a legal method of taking a life for punishment.
Beheading whether done by the sword or guillotine creates a mess from the blood. In ancient times and not so ancient, this was done to demonstrate to those who might consider a bad crime that this would or could be their punishment. A firing squad creates some of the same problems of beheading and crucifixion was designed to make as much pain for the criminal as possible.
Hanging, when done correctly, is almost instant death because the nerve system is separated from the control section of the brain. The drug cocktail is much slower and we do not know if pain is experienced by those to whom it is administered. IMO hanging is the most humane of all.
Why do an execution in public? This is an opinion developed over many years. I did not come to this position quickly. While a hardened criminal may not be deterred from acts against society by such a process, there are some who are likely to be deterred by having witnessed such an event or having knowledge of it. The deterrence value is the reason for making it public. Can that be measured? Not by any method I know other than a poll of people. How accurate are polls? It depends on how the questions are arranged and interpreted.
Each of us develop a system of values over our lifetimes. This system of values often changes with age and experience. I am not asking anyone to take my values. They have been uniquely developed by me. Are they values that everyone could or should embrace? Of course not. We all have free will to choose for ourselves.
If the State pursues the DP and a new jury is empaneled for the penalty phase there is no guarantee a new jury won’t hang. I understand it then goes back to the Judge who will determine the sentence. For the sake of the Alexander family/Arias family I’m hoping the Gov and JM cut a deal so the families can have some closure and Jodi (hopefully) is secured behind bars for rest of her natural life. Obviously I’m not for the DP and of those previous jurors who said they could make that decision four could not and that is significant. Is it worth the time, expense, more anguish for the families to retry the penalty phase? I’d like your opinions.
John Kitzhaber is the Governor of Oregon. He is also a Physician. Gary Haugen is a twice convicted murderer who was sentenced to death and wants to be put death. He has waived all appeals. The Governor has a moral opposition to capital punishment and thus far refuses to put him to death. Read on:
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/03/gov_john_kitzhabers_reprieve_o.html
Lyndsay writes:
May 24, 2013 at 9:22 pm
whodunnit – my religious and philosophical views on the Bible and God are a little different from yours and continue to change as I get older and see more. I am open-minded but always changing my mind.
—-
@Lyndsay-
I am not aware of having conveyed my own religious views on the Bible or God, although I have noted that Arias appears to have referenced hers at various times during her testimony, and I have questioned what laws, religious, philosophical or legal, she holds herself accountable to.
This trial has brought up many philosophical issues for me.Most importantly, I question the concept of extending leniency to Arias for her acts, while witholding leniency towards Travis in judging whether or not he abused Arias.
It seems that the concept of Travis as abuser is the crux of at least the jury foreman’s opinion that Arias was just a normal girl until she met Travis, and therefore deserves more empathy than Travis. I don’t mean to be facetious, but apparently, he does not believe that Travis was affected by Arias in any way, aside from her killing him.
I posted the 2011 Arizona revisions which cite the rules for all phases of capital offense in my post here:
whodunnit says:
May 24, 2013 at 11:13 pm
This can give you the details of Arizona law regarding death penalty, which , though kind of confusingly worded, may help to clarify what specifically constitutes the penalty of DP. These rules differ from states that do not allow the DP , and from states that do not allow juries to have the” final say”. Because Arizona is one of only three states that allows the jury to participate in this way, it is even more difficult to use this trial as an example of the justice or lack of justice in implemenation of a DP.
————————————————————————
I feel that the larger subject of whether or not our society. or any society, should use the death penalty is certainly a topic worthy of debate, and logically must include the underlying socio / political/economic structure of that society itself, and that it is a far wider reaching discussion than the Arias trial.
The issues at hand with the Arias trial are many. ( and as Blink says, will have people lining up for appeals!)
At the moment, the most resounding one is that the first jury was unable to come to a unanimous decision in the penalty phase with the case as it was presented to them.
In hindsight, the defense spent so many days on Arias autobiography that we were all wondering ” when will we get to the day of the crime??” And Martinez didn’t really rebut much of her earlier life, he focused much more went on the few months before and after the murder. So perhaps the jury, as the foreman seemed to imply in his interviews, was given the picture that nothing was of much importance to note until around January , Feb 2008., thereby making it seem like Arias background had little to indicate that she would have become a murderer if she hadn’t met Travis. In this way, the State failed to present Arias as an abberant individual whose life choices culminated in murdering the fourth lover who betrayed her.
We have been able to track down all the minutia of this trial . Collectively we have had thousands of posts sifting through what she has said and done, evidence that has been offered and not offered etc etc. But the jurors were in the position of just going to court each day and following what was before them. They couldn’t go back and google the heck out of Bobby Juarez, Matt Macartney, pot grown on roof tops, dropping out at 15, Wiccanism, vampire hunting, camera operating manuals, mileage capabilities of her rental car, lost and found cell phones, knives and a gun in a car poised to leave Yreka the day she was arrested etc etc etc-let alone keep a score sheet of Arias’ lies contradictions.