Jodi Arias Trial Verdict IS IN: GUILTY Of MURDER In The Slaying Of Travis Alexander
Image courtesy Arias
Phoenix, AZ- In the 4 month long trial of Jodi Ann Arias for the murder of her brief boyfriend Travis Victor Alexander, the jury deliberating since last Friday has arrived at a verdict in her case. Arias was found guilty of the pre-meditated murder of Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008.
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A pertinent quote from the foreman:
“Zervakos said the most difficult time of the entire trial was hearing directly from victim Travis Alexander’s family as his brother and sister tearfully explained how his killing has shattered their lives.
“There was no sound in that jury room for a long time after that because you hurt so bad for these people,” he said. “But that wasn’t evidence. That’s what made it so hard. … This wasn’t about them. This was a decision whether we’re going to tell somebody they were going to be put to death or spend the rest of their life in prison.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/arias-trial-jury-foreman-says-death-decision-unfair-for-12-average-people-who-arent-lawyers/2013/05/24/04681a78-c4d0-11e2-9642-a56177f1cdf7_story.html
Sometimes it is hard to remember that this trial was not for “Justice for Travis”, not for “Closure for the family”, but simply a trial to determine if Jodi Arias was guilty of the crimes with which she was charged, and if so, how she should be punished.
This statement illustrates one of the issues I have with “penalty phases.” The criminal should be tried and sentenced based solely on their own actions. The fact that TA has brothers and sisters who loved him and miss him makes his life no more worthy, and his death no more brutal, than if he was a singlet. The fact that JA’s family went visiting the Grand Canyon should have no bearing on her guilt or punishment.
This penalty phase required when the Supreme Court allowed executions to resume has created great drama, but not great justice. The penalty phase should be eliminated, and the appeals process expedited. From a prospective viewpoint, false conviction should be rare due to the wide availability of DNA evidence, and the hesitance of juries to convict without “CSI-type” evidence.
Blink, I am not certain I understand your logic. You are saying that those who are wrongly convicted and later exonerated via DNA evidence usually have past criminal records anyway, that no one just gets railroaded into jail without there being some kind of evidence, and that that justifies their sentence in jail because they would have been in jail for something else anyway, given their criminal record? So because a guy has an auto theft on his record, he deserves a life sentence? Not sure I see justice there. The punishment needs to fit the crime, otherwise you have prisons bursting at the seams. I ask you then what you think of the Central Park Five case. Juveniles with no criminal records other than some normal delinquency who were coerced into false confessions.
It is certainly easy for us to see this from the position of white privilege. My family’s only past experience with the CJ system is as cops. I understand you come from a victim-centered position of advocacy, as do I. But there are millions of other people in the country that have a different experience with the system or day to day experience with police. I think it behooves us to see it from their perspective. I have been more aware of it since dating my boyfriend for the past 2 years, who is black. He is also an educated, successful engineer who lives in a decent neighborhood and has no criminal record – he has always been law-abiding, does not even get traffic tickets. However, he was once targeted by the cops when he was driving through a part of the city where there had been a shooting and the suspect had fled and was said by witnesses to be a black male. He suddenly found a cop car behind him, the cop gets out, throws his door open, forcibly pulls him from the car, throws him up against the hood of the car, searches him. When he tries to ask what is going on, his head is slammed on the hood. He has also been followed by security guards for no reason. It is within his experience, despite being a law-abiding young professional who does not give off any kind of “thug” persona, that the only experience he has had with the CJ system was an arbitrary target for no other reason than being a black male. It can and does still happen today, and has a definite track record of happening a lot in the past.
Latest from jury foreman. He thought since they were deadlocked Judge Stephens would sentence her. Says Juan Martinez was merciless.
Really, did the Judge and/or this jury do their job?
Posted: 5:30 PM
Last Updated: 8 hours and 11 minutes ago
By: abc15.com staff
“PHOENIX – The foreman in the notorious Jodi Arias trial is speaking out, explaining the group’s confusion as Judge Sherry Stephens declared a mistrial during the penalty phase on Thursday.
Juror 18, foreman Bill Zervakos, explained how, in the end, the trial for Arias ended up with a hung jury when deciding on life in prison or death.
“None of us knew what would happen if we were unable to come up with a verdict,” Zervakos admitted.
Zervakos told ABC15 the jury believed Stephens would decide whether to give Arias life in prison or life with chance of release.”
According to Zervakos, the jury believed their instructions were ambiguous and they had no idea the judge would declare a mistrial.
“We were not abdicating our responsibility, yet we feel like people believe that.”
Zervakos says he can’t speak for the other jurors, but after almost 14 hours of deliberation it was the two sides of Arias that swayed him.
“I saw two Jodis; before June 4, 2008 and Jodi after June 4, 2008.”
When asked if he believed Arias’ claims of domestic violence, Zervakos admitted he did believe some of her allegations.
“I believe she was verbally and mentally abused by Travis. I think she has a mental problem.”
Zervakos also opened up about his personal feelings about Arias, and whether he “liked” and believed her during her stint on the witness stand.
“I tried to keep my feelings as neutral as possible,” he admitted.
But his feelings on Juan Martinez are not as neutral.
“He’s merciless,” Zervakos said of the lead prosceutor on he case. “I don’t like being talked to like I’m stupid and I feel like that happened a few times.”
Despite the outcome of the actual verdict, murder in the first degree, Zervakos says he and his fellow jurors regret they could not agree in the sentencing phase.
“Do we feel there was unfinished business? Do we feel like we didn’t complete our task? Yeah.”
Looking forward, Zervakos hopes the Alexander family can heal, but also had a final thought about Arias.
“The only thing that I can hope for her is that she comes to peace with herself, that she comes to grips with herself.”
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/jodi-arias-juror-interview-foreman-speaks-out-about-trial-trouble-in-sentencing-phase
Translation: Martinez offended the jury, and it cannot be excluded as a factor in their deadlock. To their credit, it obviously did not seem to interfere with the guilt or aggravating phase.
B
GeorgiaDad
I agree with the last two paragraphs of your post. The penalty phase of a trial has become an emotion packed time that IMO often distracts from the task at hand.
I don’t think anyone could describe the real damage to a family in such a setting. Emotions should not be a part of such a consideration. The facts of the crime should be all that is considered.
Ragdoll says:
May 24, 2013 at 10:35 am
GraceintheHills says:
May 24, 2013 at 1:03 am
God bless your Uncle, dear friendy! Blessed is the man who lays down his life for a friend. Big big hugs and love to you! xo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Ragdoll, Thank you and God bless you, sweet friend!
@GeorgiaDad. good points.
It is the State putting to death.
Therefore it is State Legislatures that mandate
or not death sentences & their criteria, or alternatives.
MD has just eliminated capital punishment. I imagine
it’s a legislative issue most votes don’t turn on.
Well said ATG….
for clarification I would beg for mercy for my son if he faced the DP. The point I make is with regard to perspective….If my child is a victim I would be hard pressed to forgive the offender. If my child were the offender I would beg mercy.
Alternate juror #17, now identified as Tara Kelley is speaking out via Twitter. She was the juror who asked: “After all the lies you have told why should we believe you now?” She said: “I really wanted to see if she could answer that with a good response.” She also said that she asked about 75 questions and all of the ones about ‘No jury will convict me’ were hers. She mentions she still had to go to court when she had migraines, a reference to Jodi canceling court for her migraines.
With regard to the toughness of the prosecutor she said: “…I loved Juan!!! I knew he was very passionate for the Alexander family. His reaction to the hung jury said it all. He was Travis’ voice.” About Jodi’s comment that the jury ‘betrayed’ her: “What a bunch of crap! Of course she feels betrayed, she really thought we were all fooled by her!” When asked about the comments from the foreman: “I am very disgusted with what our ‘foreman’ has said! Please know that we didn’t all feel this way!!!”
Tara is scheduled to be on the Dr. Drew show Tuesday and a Twitter interview with Wild About Trial on Wednesday.
https://www.facebook.com/Justice4Travis?hc_location=timeline
*******
Now editting EXCLUSIVE 1 on 1 interview w/ #JodiArias juror 6 you’ll see @ 10 on @12news & later on @azcentral. #TravisAlexander
Chris Williams @chriswnews 54m
I’m sitting with #JodiArias juror number six and she’s willing to take a question from you. What do you have?
*The gas cans were key
*There was no gender trend
*did they buy her “tears?”>They noticed and it seemed disingenuous
*How does she think JM did?>She was very impressed
https://twitter.com/chriswnews/status/338479890036838401
for last post
lyla says:
May 25, 2013 at 6:36 pm
“But his feelings on Juan Martinez are not as neutral.
“He’s merciless,” Zervakos said of the lead prosecutor on he case. “I don’t like being talked to like I’m stupid and I feel like that happened a few times.”
Blink says:
Translation: Martinez offended the jury, and it cannot be excluded as a factor in their deadlock. To their credit, it obviously did not seem to interfere with the guilt or aggravating phase.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink, I think he is speaking for himself, but we will know for sure when some of the other jurors give interviews on Tuesday. One of the female alternate jurors is praising Martinez on her twitter feed. This same alternate feels that Jennifer Willmott may have scored points in the penalty phase.
Understood Grace, we will learn much in the coming days.
B
@Blink. Zervakos & Brewer seem
on the same page, as 2 up close
& personal real time observers.
I would simply add they both agree Arias should not be in society.
B
The State proved, and Jodi Ann Arias was convicted of “First Degree Premeditated Murder”. Did the jury not understand the meaning of “Premeditated”? The jury did not do “due diligence” in their deliberations. As always, jmo.
not sure i was watching the same trial either. why did judge tell jurors ,this was not a typical trial, it had better of been typical for them ,they werent to be exposed to any outside info, that’s what was atypical. i cant understand the reason for the death penalty in this case, she confessed , and was willing to plea,. beth cesares qouted a former la da who says this would not have been a death penalty case in la,only 12% of the murder cases are,and even those arent always tried for capital punishment.i have taken myself to task ,as to if i have gender bias , but i dont think i do , society has gender bias, for a good reason.i see appeal issues all over this case. i can understand the death penalty in the realm of – she killed a peace officer’s brother-. i heard it said that martinez himself knew getting death would be difficult. i thought nurmi took him down two pegs in his closing statement. martinez closing was so confusing to the point of hilarity for me,he jumped back and forth on the time line(of the whole relationship) ,i couldnt follow him ,i now realize that was on purpose ,he didnt want you to think there was a real relationship between them. the backspace button-what was that? she killed over a stuck back space button,(i ve emailed google about their _kill the page button- , are they trying to bring on a mad max death culture , get frustrated with a frozen web page and kill it,my mom didnt allow the word kill in her house) was it mutiple choice on the motive. and de marte ,she said jodi was found -hiding- behind the xmas tree,i heard the mean girl ,tell the story , she told jodi to leave, that she wasnt invited, later jodi was sleeping under the xmas tree,how did it go from sleeping to hiding , i’d hide from those chicks ,i dont think jodi did. i heard his friend say ,”the minute ,i saw travis talking to that girl ,i asked what are you doing ,we arent looking to attrack bimbo’s”,hello that’s every girl in la. jodi was ostrasized by alot of his friends. and the hughes ,please. what were they doing up at 4:00 am all the time ,telling jodi tavis mistreats women,then being scared of HER,when she’s at the door at 4:00 am, listening to them talking about her, imo ,hughes’s fear was her duplicity being revealed, what were they doing up at 4.00 am talking about jodi behind closed doors, creepy.i’d listen at the door also. jodi should have run fast from these people.is this when her crazy eyes started, you can create a stalker if you dont break up with someone properly,and i think you can bring out the evil in a person ,if they have a proclavity for it and you play them hard. travis played with fire.i dont think he deserved it. travis was dumped by three women from wealthy families ,he wanted to marry them.are the women out there in the public square fist pumping for death, the mothers of the girls beating each other up for justin bieber, i dont want a death culture.martinez won me over on the 3-4 sec premedition. this has helped me define my feelings on the death penalty,some cases ,yes, this one ,no!good job from the jury ,imo.
Thanks Rose for the PPL site
I was under the impression these were some young people trying to get it off the ground
Also I thought Travis was having money problems
Grace writes :
( re: possible DID)
And, remember, JA does not have amnesia for the killing.
—-
Dr, Samuels did offer his opinion that the intruder story could have been an example of a type of transference that allowed Jodi to separate herself from the experience- attributing the crime to another entity as a way of processing the trauma without associating herself with it.
And it appears that in DID there are varying states of awareness of ” other personalities”- that those with DID experience black outs if they have no awareness of the other personality that is in control at that time.
The pitch , cadence and phrasing in her voice on the sex tape was different, her vocabulary was different, and the way she expressed her personality was so completely different from the way she presented herself on the stand – let alone the physicality- it really was like it was another person. And she made every effort to convey that in fact “it wasn’t really her” and she didn’t mean it, was faking orgasm etc. when asked to explain her comments to Travis.
The person that she was in the pre trail interviews ( 48 hours etc.) was yet another personality- compassionate, chaste, smiling, engaging, relaxed posture, yet lively. Speaking briskly at times and very responsive, cooperating fully with the interviewer.
On the stand, holding herself still and erect, speaking slowly and methodically, at times being non responsive to Nurmi or obstreperous to Martinez, she said that she lied in those pre trail interviews because she was ashamed. But there was no appearance of shame when she gave those interviews. So who was ashamed? The person who did the pre trail interviews or the person on the stand?
The post verdict interviews , I still don’t understand what she was trying to accomplish- only that some part of her had not been heard from and needed to speak out.
There is such a disconnect between all of her presentations it seems to go beyond lying into some other stratosphere.
But having said all this, I feel as I write this that I can’t blame the jury for not being able to agree what to do with her. I think the real problem is they just could not come to a conclusion about what she is- cold blooded lying murderer or DV victim who believed it was kill or be killed- because she does not have a stable persona that can be identified.
Bottom line,defense didn’t plead insanity. Whacha gonna do?
I brought up the DID issue following my review of her LE interviews, iirc. I saw that and some possible spectral issues NOS (non-specific). I noted while she repeatedly lined up her waters, faced them in the right direction, placed the pencils across the top, etc. I am cautious about saying that because it can certainly be a symptom of anxiety, deferring one’s mind from fear and determining that in an adult at this stage and set of circumstances is really difficult and probably futile.
There is no doubt in my mind that the reason there was not a mental defense is because evaluations of her concluded she did not qualify for the burdens associated with that for a judge to approve the plea in the first place. That said, I am not sure at all that the complex psychiatric concepts and legal standards were not beyond the assets of her defense team either. It looks like this jury believed ALV however, which is compelling and I say again, JM treatment of her did not help.
Rose, Grace and although she has not posted in a bit, Mom 3.0 would be what I consider the more experienced in the field commenters than I in the field- but I think we all agree that in-patient observation and other specific conditions would need to occur before anyone would ever really know wth is up with her. I also suspect there is traits she has that even in a controlled setting most evals would miss.
B
B
Martinez’ job as a State employee is to secure for the residents of AZ a conviction on crime charged (he did) and to secure the legislative remedy. At least one of the remedies is in hand at the present time, judicial sentencing (and I have no doubt it would be lwop). To accept it would offend the Alexanders, who seek death, put perhaps benefit them broadly.
Alternate juror 17 seems to fit definition 2 in url below. I am not sure but what this attitude would not also be behind Martinez retrying. http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/media_whore I’d feel better if he had a strong apolitical supervisor publically involved. As long as society is permanently protected, punishment is severe, and State legislation is implemented, what more is there where jurors differ? This jury did its job. An open social question is should the State afford treatment resources to the mentally ill in the general prison population?
Here is the beginning of his interview- you know- they are going to drag it out for the ratings
http://www.azcentral.com/video/2410041098001
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/jodi-arias-jury-members-experience-19259344
3 jurors-
An ER nurse, A 911 Operator and a Banker
More insight from 3 other jurors
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/t/video/jodi-arias-jury-members-experience-19259344
The jury foreman’s position of disliking JM and his approach to handling the witnesses apparently was paramount in his decision making. He became angry at JM and decided that even though Jodi fit the criteria for the charges, he would convict her of those, but not give JM the victory for the death penalty.
This is a case of punishing the public because you disagree with the method chosen to deliver the message. Being a juror is not an easy task. However, one should never base a decision on the dislike of how something was presented. I agree ATG, but it is also incumbant upon the prosecutor to know how his behavior will potentially effect a jury.
B
@Blink re “we all agree that in-patient observation and other specific conditions would need to occur before anyone would ever really know wth is up with her. I also suspect there is traits she has that even in a controlled setting most evals would miss.”
You betcha. I don’t think even inpatient with experienced forensic team would be definitive. What is the purpose of diagnosis anyway? To me it’s usefulness is twofold: as a guide to treatment, especially medications. Secondly in the case of a homicidal (or suicidal) person, to protect other persons (and themselves). I hate to sound callous, but If she’s permanently imprisoned anyway, you’ve achieved the latter. And if she’s permanently imprisoned in virtual solitary anyway, what good is the former (except to her)? So once she’s sentenced, I don’t think it really matters except to advance understanding generally of such potential crimes.
my husband left last week for his second job with the military (he served in iraq and is still employed by the army)..he will be home in 10 weeks. One of the things he joked about with me as I was very upset about him being gone for so long, was that he was happy he wouldn’t have to hear anything about Jodi Arias, or look at JVM’s “racoon hair” as he calls it, any longer. Little does he know, when he gets home it might be time for the second penalty phase. The reason I’m telling this story is because I’m wondering blink, if you have an opinion on how long it’s going to take for the second penalty phase to take place, and where you think they might get a potential jury from. I believe the state will want to go ahead with a re-do of the penalty phase. I am also wondering if the DT will motion for not only a change of venue, but a change of judge. I just see this dragging out for months.
Sunshine- will you thank your husband for his service for me/us please?
I will be surprised if the state chooses to empanel another jury and not request Judge Stephens decide the life portion. If they do, they will seek a change of venue. Personally, I think it is a waste of taxpayer funds and an unfair application of civic duty.
Considering the jury did not realize that a deadlock resulted in this option in the first place, I think Judge Stephens should render the sentence and I think JM should be counseling the family about the fact that death was not the only win.
B
No idea of this woman’s credentials beyond Mom, but she has some helpful lay language:
http://www.carolgiambalvo.com/coping-with-triggers.html
Dissociative states are common in cult members.
I can truly see Nurmi not wanting (or having the $ or competence to) to take on PPL’ member induction & maintenance, nor a religion’s.
I did see a psych case presentation of a DID long ago at a hospital arm of NIH. While I can’t say I was persuaded, the teaching psychiatrists were true believers. One resident was so impressed, she decided to specialize. Can’t say I was.
Thinking of young females I’ve known on the spectrum (for example my son befriended a diagnosed Aspergers girl in a spec ed school summer camp who visited socially for a couple years), others I knew from schools, these girls fit the profile of very quiet, appearing shy, as Arias. Yet their parents do walk on eggshells.
1. whodunnit says:
May 26, 2013 at 4:19 am
Grace writes :
( re: possible DID)
And, remember, JA does not have amnesia for the killing.
—-
Dr, Samuels did offer his opinion that the intruder story could have been an example of a type of transference that allowed Jodi to separate herself from the experience- attributing the crime to another entity as a way of processing the trauma without associating herself with it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Who, I don’t think I explained my opinion in the last post, so let me try again. I am basing this opinion on the evidence presented at trial, her parents’ interviews, and her interviews, nothing more. I can understand how some laypeople might look at JA and think she has several personalities and not realize her different presentations are more likely to represent traits and aspects of one personality. Every one of us has a multidimensional personality that consists of many different traits. Whatever traits are being manifested at one time depends on the situation, environment, and one’s current emotional state. For example, most of us will show certain traits and emotions when we are arguing with our spouses and other traits and affect when we are giving a presentation at work. The two presentations can look dramatically different but are still part of one’s core personality. Samuels testified that in his opinion JA has dissociative amnesia, not DID or TGA. But, we must remember that he is relying “self report” from JA with no evidence of objective data to validate his impression. Again, after hearing her talk about the two ninjas and what she claims she saw that day, she provides strong direct evidence that she does have memories from that time as her account aligns with the physical evidence. That is key info to a forensic examiner.
Btw, if Samuels used the word “transference” in this context, he misused the word.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who says, “The pitch, cadence and phrasing in her voice on the sex tape was different, her vocabulary was different, and the way she expressed her personality was so completely different from the way she presented herself on the stand – let alone the physicality- it really was like it was another person.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Who, the change in JA’s inflection, pitch and cadence during the sex tape did not sound natural and suggests to me that she was
acting a role in order to get Travis to have phone sex with her so she could record him. Changes in one’s inflection, cadence and pitch do not indicate a separate personality. It those did, most of us would have hundreds of personalities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who says, “The person that she was in the pre trail interviews ( 48 hours etc.) was yet another personality- compassionate, chaste, smiling, engaging, relaxed posture, yet lively. Speaking briskly at times and very responsive, cooperating fully with the interviewer.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Who, I can’t imagine that a defendant charged with first degree murder would not want to present herself as possessing the traits you must mentioned. At that point, imo, there was a lot of secondary gain for Arias if she could convince some of her potential jury pool to believe her lies. Again, this is likely part of her core personality.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who says, “I think the real problem is they just could not come to a conclusion about what she is- cold blooded lying murderer or DV victim who believed it was kill or be killed- because she does not have a stable persona that can be identified.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Who, I think all of the jurors were savvy enough to realize that Arias was lying to them and (as one juror said last night) “playing” them. We will hear more from them in the coming days. JMO. Hope this information helps.
@ Eloise says:
May 25, 2013 at 11:19 pm
Thank you for posting this!
This is so fascinating to me….. Each juror is revealing their psyche against each other, as time goes on. I hope more speak out. I felt there’d be 12 different, unique perspectives about how this trial played out before the jury’s eyes. I don’t agree with the foreman, but it’s his reality and how he processed the information. I’m GRATEFUL this jury did their job and took it as seriously as they did. It proves (imho) the c-word’s jury was a grand fail. When approached with respect, a jury CAN perform their civil duty with integrity and grace while seeking for the truth like a needle in a haystack. They knew this case and the details.
Respectfully posted xo
Quote
Rose, Grace and although she has not posted in a bit, Mom 3.0 would be what I consider the more experienced in the field commenters than I in the field- but I think we all agree that in-patient observation and other specific conditions would need to occur before anyone would ever really know wth is up with her. I also suspect there is traits she has that even in a controlled setting most evals would miss.
B
==========================================================
I’m going to be honest about my feelings here. There are a few here that ‘get this aspect’, not because of schooled education but b/c of life education. I KNOW I posted great insights about this perspective and never got an acknowledged. Fine. I respect the professionals and how they gained their knowledge of the complexity of the brain.
There are few others that offered opinions based on personal experiences that are just as note worthy….
ATG,. I personally don’t need the accolades but are we going to champion posters, implying some bring more level of importance than others? That blows, big time.
I’m severely disappointed and know it’s a knock to those that keep BOC from being an elite forum that has been expressed, in not so many words, in the past. Well, the message got to me, loud and clear, anyways.
People aren’t posting for their health. They’re posting b/c they believe they’re helping…advocating.
My apologies (and please forgive me) for being abrupt and abrasive but this elephant in the room needed to be acknowledge for a very long time.
Peace and light.
Ragdoll, my sincere apology. I was referring to experience with evaluations in a clinical setting and related my own lack of field experience of same. Observatory and personal experience commentary are invaluable to insight, If you feel I have been remiss in stating that, than I owe you and anyone I inadvertantly offended an apology. Again, I was speaking in terms of clinical evals.
You are one of the spiritually strongest, thoughtful, critically thinking posters I have the pleasure of contributing here, I want you to be clear about that.
Heart & Hugs FriendLY
B
http://tinyurl.com/owsr638
Yes ma’am, and thank you for doing so.
B
blink writes:
Rose, Grace and although she has not posted in a bit, Mom 3.0 would be what I consider the more experienced in the field commenters than I in the field- but I think we all agree that in-patient observation and other specific conditions would need to occur before anyone would ever really know wth is up with her. I also suspect there is traits she has that even in a controlled setting most evals would miss.
B
—
Blink, thanks so much for your response. Arias is a cunundrum wrapped in an enigma at this point. ugh.
——
ATG-
Again I am dissapointed in the imbalance of judgement in this case.
Leniency to Arias, none given to Martinez.
In foreman’s eyes, Arias behavior is ultimately excusable, Martinez’s is not.
Arias found guilty of premed murder with aggravating circumstances, Martinez inncoent of charges of prosecutorial misconduct.
Foreman has no right to judge Martinez. Clear jury instructions to avoid emotionality. Foreman shirked his duty.
ATG, I agree with you that I think sometimes gender is a factor in determining the DP. Women are supposed to be the more caring, compassionate sex supposedly; people don’t like to think that they can be capable of as much violence and anger as a man (though I actually read somewhere, I don’t have the source, that female officers can sometimes be more brutal/use more force than their male counterparts in an effort to prove themselves. And that they are also harder on other females than male officers. Don’t take my word on this as fact – I don’t have the source on me). I would also be willing to bet money that, contrary to popular belief, those who voted DP were women, and those that didn’t were men. Women know what other women are capable of, and could be resentful that she tried claim she was a victim of DV when there are real DV victims out there. (this is just my own opinion).
I just came across this essay: Confessions of a (female) Sociopath. It is chilling to say the least. (I think we’ve all worked in an office with at least one person like this at some point.) I definitely saw Casey Anthony to a tee in this. Still wondering if it really fits for Jodi though…
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath?src=longreads
Fascinating and frightening, indeed.
B
Ive been really busy w/ graduation celebrations-
I am a very proud Mom3.0
Sorry for the length ive been gone for awhile.
I read all of your thoughtful posts, and Blinks insightful responses-
great job one and all
I also took the time to read some thoughts on other sites/news comment sections via the links which you all so graciously brought over.
As always the interviews with the jurors are very interesting.
First let me begin by saying,
after following the CA trial and becoming emotionally involved I understand how some are angry and feel so strongly, so deeply for the Alexanders that a mistrial in the penalty phase seems abhorrent.
And I can also understand why some are questioning the jury foreman’s thoughts.
It is easy to become so emotionally invested in the outcomes that we lash out from time to time.
Having said that
I do not understand why so many (not on BOC) are so angry with the jury foreman that they would call him names like scrotum head or compare him to ALV or threaten him or wish him to die and rot in Hell or merely twist his words into some kind of pro Jodi fanfare when clearly this was not the case.
The man seems intelligent and yes he came into this believing the same as most did, the same as the other three jurors did
Jodi, the defendant- at first glance does not seem capable of such a heinous crime and certainly not when you look at her size compared to Travis’- we have all said this at one time or another so how is it that this man is being vilified for answering this question truthfully?
He thought JA was emotionally and verbally abused by Travis not that she was physically abused but verbally abused- there was some evidence of that was there not?
That is not to say JA did not give as well as she received and clearly the jury was not privy to alot of info- can we fault them for that?
Another thing that someone brought up is this foremans somewhat dislike of JMs style, as if that swayed him – again this isnt the CA trial- where some liked Jose more as he was more personable, which helped to tip the scales…this jury, this man -weighed all the evidence, and found JA guilty despite JMs shortcomings…
Having said that, I sincerely hope we dont come to find that there were some jurors who appreciated JMs style and hated Nurmi and Wilmott to the point that it was a factor in their deliberations…
The jury was to go in believing JA was innocent and they were told when in doubt the benefit must sway toward the defendant…and they were told to base the verdict only on the evidence presented at trial…
IMO they did their jobs.
What troubles me – IRT the jurors, the ones who have spoken out, they seem to know more than they should almost as if they have seen media accounts JMO .. I do not think it can ever be proven this happened before the verdict howerever, so we may not have to worry about that aspect
But what of the juror who apologized to the Alexanders after the penalty phase will that come up in appeals?
This jury, this man, found Jodi Arias guilty of first degree murder they found that it was especially cruel- yet so many seem to be so gungho for the death penalty that they can not see past this “loss” to give credit to this jury to include this man for a job well done.
Why is everyone so angry? This isnt the ca verdict– the murderer WAS found guilty she WILL be held accountable– she will not walk free- guilty of just lying, she was convicted of first degree murder
Again I ask why are so many so angry? Cant they tell when they have won?
It reminds me of a clip from the movie “From Dusk till Dawn”-
warning graphic language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U12bWXqxgXM
Learn to take a win and celebrate it
since when is having the satisfaction of sentencing a person to death the only means of true justice?
I understand it is what the family wants- and they may still get it
I understand for the family it is personal but IMO it is wrong to vote for death based upon feelings for the family alone as Blink so rightfully wrote;
“The jury is not supposed to be thinking of Travis’s family in it’s deliberations and it is unfair of anyone to task them with same.”
No one should be voting for death to try to lesson the family’s pain and anguish nor should it be a vote to give them vengeance even if it is their sincere hope. I really hope that this was not the case.
Furthermore, IMO
We, the public shouldnt be latching on to the families turmoil their pain, and anguish to feed into their sense of loss over this non-verdict in the penalty phase-
We should be helping them to move forward and to see past this stumbling block to enable them to better see it as a stepping stone
A stone that allows them to move closer to embracing their “win” of guilty of premeditated murder in the first degree..
If we can help them reach that stone,
then perhaps we can aid them in reaching the stone which will allow them see that no matter what happens from here.. whether it is offering LWOP or a new jury to determine DP or other- the ultimate outcome will still be a stepping stone to justice.
and perhaps then the family will be able to find the next stone which will lead them to peace– regardless of the final sentence.
I hope they will overcome the stumbling blocks to build a firm foundation upon each and every stepping stone they utilized on this sad journey to justice.
AJMO
Peace
Remembering Travis’ words on this Memorial day weekend :
I will love, and then love more. I will serve and serve more. I will forgive and then forgive more. I will not let these thoughts fade but instead remind myself of them daily and spend time visualizing myself in accomplishment of them until the day that my thoughts become reality…..
“The difference between a stumbling block and a stepping stone is the character of the individual walking the path.”
RIP Travis
http://www.azcentral.com/video/2411704415001
Thanks E-
Juror #6 answers some tweet questions. Very sharp lady.
B
good post, 3.0.
Only a glance (all I give) @ JodiisInnocent finds bizarre thinking on both sides.
Fruit of Borderlines, imo, and imo usually more than one in such a polarized case, ie Kyron’s-
-not suggesting Travis or Alexanders tho. Can be followers.
re ” again this isnt the CA trial- where some liked Jose more as he was more
personable, which helped to tip the scales…” If you read his book, he made a
deliberate decision to present himself personably. A trial techinique outside JM’s repertoire.
@Ragdoll. Your wealth of experience & knowledge always comes out.
You are always read, and valued. Warmly…
Ragdoll
Your comment about championing various posters is not what I am about. I don’t think anyone is one whit smarter than another. Some have a lot more experience or knowledge about a particular subject than do others. This is the teaching part of this blog.
The old Indian saying of “you cannot know another well unless you have walked a mile in their moccasins” is true. Those that have walked the path have gained valuable insight into the realities of a situation.
The subject under consideration was the lack of a verdict in the penalty portion of the trial and the possible behaviors that made such a decision happen. This is how society makes progress. We must make the attempt to see the possible reasons of something happening and that with more knowledge or a different approach could be improved.
Mom3.0
It would appear from your post that congratulations may be in order for one or more of your children. A reaching of a worthy goal of graduation.
I take it those are the quotes from some of Travis’s writings. This reminds me of the work of Napoleon Hill, a man who was sponsored by Andrew Carnegie of U.S. Steel to motivate his people. His concept was that “thoughts are things” and that thoughts must become reality at some point after much work towards the goal was done.
While the penalty phase of a trial must be done under law, the concept of punishment is or should be for the protection of society as a whole and not for the emotional act of “revenge” for a family’s loss. Society cannot bring back a lost loved one. Your post expressed this very concept.
Mom3.0
I’ve missed your posts…thanks for keeping me grounded.
GraceintheHills says:
May 26, 2013 at 1:59 pm
—
Thanks for clarifying, Grace. My thoughts about Arias having DID are an attempt to rationalize rehavior I cannot comprehend, and justify the lying she has done.
After reading your post, I realize that in fact, with all my proselytizing about the wrongness of ” abuse excuse”, I was looking at DID as an an excuse for her behavior. But your well written post illustrates that regardless of her mental/emotional problems, she STILL was and is capable of discerning right from wrong in so far as the legal requirements to stand trial. So again, thanks for illuminating the path I was following and pointing out the rabbit holes!
————————————————–
In Arias post sentencing mistrail interview, she stated that if she was ever free again she would act very very responsibly, ” unless you abuse me or threaten to kill my life” Odd wording aside,she is saying that she had a right to murder Travis , and has no remorse. This is just one of the statements that the foru jurors who voted against the death penalty will be exposed to.
If those four now see information that they were not given during the trial, and STILL don’t feel she has met the penalty of DP, I would think it is because they were unable to take the mammoth responsibility of imparting death to another person put when it came down to it -something they didnt realize when they filled out their questionnaires initially.
In the same way that it is so hard to fathom Arias behavior, it is equally hard to feel what the jurors must have felt. We have a larger degree of emotional objectivity because of the ” support system” of checks and balances on this site and have always had a wider access to info.
As far as the vivtim impact statements, I undertsood from the jury instructions that those statements are offered in the penalty phase for the jury to have a deeper understanding of the crime and, in telling how the crime affected the victim’s family, it gives a larger context to the defendant. The defendant has the opportunity to speak to her own value, and bring witnesses to speak to the value of her life, good deeds etc, in an offering of mitigationg circumstances.
The purpose of the penalty phase is to weigh the mitigation against the crime and choose life or death. So although one cannot ask the jury to ” give the DP because they feel bad for Travis family”, they can be asked to judge Arias in terms of whether or not the damage done to the family, because of the death Arias has caused, outweighs the good she has done or will do if allowed to live.
If for example, Travis had dependents, children who would never know their father, a company that would fold due to his death, we would be looking at a more quantifiable loss than presented. I do think that both sides were less than compelling inthe penalty phase and that caused a ” wash out” effect.
I do think that ultimate decision of DP or Life sentences should be in a judge’s hands.
Blink said: “Considering the jury did not realize that a deadlock resulted in this option in the first place, I think Judge Stephens should render the sentence and I think JM should be counseling the family about the fact that death was not the only win.”
B
******************
Blink – I pray for all concerned that this is the case. To have to regurgitate what was so vile and offensive in this case would be too insulting for Travis’ family and friends to sit through again. I know that the family wants the ultimate sentence, but I believe she will wind up with LWOP if the judge sentences her and she will be in a living hell for the rest of her days on earth. Yes, she can still manipulate or try to, and she may even make a friend or two in her new home, but her new friends will NOT be unsuspecting, vulnerable, people who she likes to take advantage of. If she ever tries to do this, she will be making a huge mistake. And prison or not, there is payback. You all watched the YouTube of Angela Simpson? Well, I rest my case.
One more note. Perryville Prison is 100 yrs. old. Life there will not be comfortable. I have toured and worked in old facilities and it ain’t a good environment for inmates or staff. It WILL be hell on earth. And conveniences are nill. No A/C, not enough heat and old rusted showers just to name a few. She is in for a rude awakening and there has never been anyone so deserving of what she gets for what she did. I think death will be too much of an easy out for her. JMO
Rose says:
May 26, 2013 at 1:53 pm
No idea of this woman’s credentials beyond Mom, but she has some helpful lay language:
http://www.carolgiambalvo.com/coping-with-triggers.html
Dissociative states are common in cult members.
I can truly see Nurmi not wanting (or having the $ or competence to) to take on PPL’ member induction & maintenance, nor a religion’s.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Rose, Do you think that PPL and the Mormon religion are cults?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rose says, “I did see a psych case presentation of a DID long ago at a hospital arm of NIH. While I can’t say I was persuaded, the teaching psychiatrists were true believers. One resident was so impressed, she decided to specialize. Can’t say I was.”
@Rose, DID is exceedingly rare, but it is possible that someone possibly suffering from DID would be seen in an arm of the NIH or NIMH. I suspect the psychiatrists were ruling out other disorders, as well. DID is particularly difficult to validate with objective observations and testing, and the diagnosis is usually only given after observing the patient for an extended period of time (not just one inpatient hospitalization). I will say that my colleague who did a fellowship at NIMH says he saw all types of rare disorders there, but this was not one of them.
Dissociation is a real phenomenon that almost all of us experience every day (e.g., while driving, watching television, etc.) It is only when these dissociative episodes/symptoms cause significant distress or impairment that they rise to the level of a disorder.
For those who were extremely pro-prosecution, I don’t see that you have anything to be disappointed about-just because she didn’t get the death penalty. Come on! Someone on TV said to Nancy Grace who acted disappointed”Is death the only viable option?” I thought that was really funny. Martinez won big-time getting an M-1 conviction. That was the main thing. I thought it was interesting in an interview what the jury foreman said”Something just doesn’t wash” about this case. I get the same feeling-there’s something missing here.JMHO
Lyndsay, thx for bringing the Psychology Today article over.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath?src=longreads
Fascinating and frightening, indeed.
B
I feel I know this patient and I feel that somehow the darkness of that soul is also within me. I think everyone would misunderstand if I claimed that we are all capable of evil without the grace of the universe and without the self-protecting stops we have within us–some call that a conscience. I also believe that there are some who have fleeting contact with that universe or God and either have not formed a conscience or cannot access it under all circumstances. (Under the duress of pain is such a good example because filters are off and ‘fight or flight’ is fully active.)
If we believe the sociopath is completely egocentric and all actions made are for self-gain, we have to be honest with ourselves and our fear of others around us.
That’s not a very clear statement in itself. I’m thinking of how we socially nod, smile, accommodate, so that life’s interactions go well. Sometimes we do this because we are happy to be with others and are enjoying the experience (riding the bus, eating in a restaurant, getting directions, buying a newspaper at the convenience store). Regardless, our ego is involved.
Deeper then, how do we really feel? Do we judge and label and blame? I recently found myself with opinions of neighbors, retail workers, nurses, kids walking down my street. I told myself that I must do this for my own protection, so that I know the good people from the bad people, those who would hurt me and those who would not.
Yet, opinions of others tend to reflect the opinions we have of ourselves. If we make unfair comparisons, why do we even care that much to categorize others? If others are sloppy, dirty, undisciplined, dangerous, what does that make us? Better!
I am not speaking of the times when our self-protective intuition tells us to get out of a dangerous situation, or warns us we are entering an unsafe zone. That is not something to ignore or minimize.
When the jury foreman gave his views, I found myself picking apart his age (too doddy), his lack of experience with ‘fake people’ and his lack of detachment when it came to the work of the attorneys. I wanted him to be sharp, articulate, wise, non-judgmental, and accommodating to all, without emotional reaction. Tall order. But I seem to believe that I (capital ME) could do it!
Because I follow crime and punishment? Because I know a bit about the law, because I’ve studied psychology and forensics? Because I’m a good (in my view) researcher? No, because I think I’m better. That’s the sad truth of it.
Where my work begins is with myself and my own manipulative behavior. I need to examine my own blaming, labeling, comparisons, catastrophizing, ‘the tyranny of the shoulds,’ and so on. If “to mine own self be true” does not involve deep reflection and honesty, I will be less than I could be in this life.
For me, I am responsible for my own life, my own happiness. I make choices and decisions that can affect that state. I am not responsible for the happiness or feelings of others. In some ways I try not to let their feelings (in work/public situations) affect me, although I am aware of their expressions of them. I can’t fix people or make them okay but I can respect their ability to overcome and accept their own pain, make their own decisions, and maintain control of their own life.
I am only speaking about the person is who sitting in the jury box and evaluating the defendant and providing sentencing. When they know themselves and can balance the information presented to them and can see a situation for what it is, they will make the best decision.
It’s just occurring to me that this missive is growing longer by the second. I’m aware that I don’t feel that I get the credit I deserve in life and that I am often misunderstood or undervalued. That’s good to realize so that I can focus more on who I am and how I want to spend the rest of my days.
Apologies to character Abileen Clark in The Help: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H50llsHm3k)
I is kind.
I is smart.
I is important.
Thank you!
I don’t think I will be able to properly articulate how much your post made me think about “me” , so I will simply thank you kindly for sharing it.`
We all need to be thinking about “me” as we endeavor to think about advocacy in particular.
Brava Wordy Girl
B
Rags, I love you.
Yes Jeni something is missing here and it’s called the death penalty! The jury foreman also said that he could not vote to give her the death penalty. Nobody is GIVING her the DP she earned that title herself, when she butchered Travis Alxander. Mr.jury foreman you were expected to abide by the law of the state of AZ and you failed to do that. That’s my opinion, which is not worth very much.
@GraceintheHills. PPL is nationwide, I believe. Perhaps different areas have their own recruitment & retention culture. But imo I concur with Matthew that the system Matthew describes ( http://www.pinktruth.com/2007/08/pre-paid-legal-religion-pyramid-schemes/ ), while a legal pyramid scheme, has the indicia of a cult, one centered on finance. It sounds like the group & methodology both Arias & Alexander experienced was similar to Matthews’ description. I believe the retention part, which he does not describe, was as important to Alexander & Arias psychologically as the recruitment part. And all of it demanded an upward flow of fees to support the lifestyles at the top. People at the top of the pyramid frankly made their money as much from the Travises as the Jodis. Imo both were victims. Use of personal sexuality appears to be a recruitment tool per Matthew. This is consistent with other PPL participants’ stories on the web. As far as Mormonism, long ago I was introduced to the beliefs of that religion in a book Kingdom of the Cults & their own sources. There are many stories on the net, again, of those who experienced the active proselytizing wings in certain areas of the country (remember Sean Cruz, Aaron’s law) as cults. At this time I respect the belief systems of all, and am in an area where this group, even in close contact, does not actively proselytize. But if you read the descriptions of cult features on the net, and I just included one in simple lay terms, Arias herself imo experienced intake into this local church as being taken into a cult in my opinion.
@GraceintheHills.
Margaret Singer, Michael Langone & others write on commercial cults in which some MultiLevelMarketing orgs are included. In part it depends on if they’re selling the product or a place in a distribution scheme as well as other cult indicia. Like Blink, this now 90 yo (if still alive) respects her guns too http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/PSYCH-SLEUTH-Margaret-Singer-has-made-history-3306807.php
@GraceintheHills
illuminative. I suspect these events & speeches are scripted countrywide.
http://youtu.be/f0gHVyPD8v0
http://youtu.be/-IO7LQjOJWI
I recall it was said negatively of Arias how excitdd she was at PPL dinner when Travis spoke. Imo this
irrational exhuberance seems to be the culture practiced by most in the room.
These social institutions & their impacts on Arias & Alexander seem to have been known throughout the trial.
So I don’t understand why Nurmi had a DV theory of the case with ALaV rather than a cult theory with a PhD psychologist expert witness from Singer’s (now dead) colleagues/associates.
@Jean – You are so right in what you say. And I agree that this evil girl needs the death penalty, which was warranted by the State of Arizona for the cruel, heinous, horrific murder of Travis Alexander. I work in the criminal justice field and if I tell you how many violent criminals don’t get the sentence they truly deserve, it would weigh you down. There are more plea bargains than trials and the sentence doesn’t meet the crime. Then there’s such a thing called ‘good time’ and if the inmate meets certain criteria, he/she can get out earlier. The sentence is reduced. Many get out, only to re-offend and leave more victims.
For me, in this case, the jury found her guilty of Murder 1. I commend them for that. They got the picture. For some reason, their emotions got the better of them in the penalty phase and they didn’t follow instructions – or couldn’t follow instructions because they are human and by that I mean they couldn’t condemn her to death. She will get a do-over for the penalty phase and she will be sentenced to either LWOP or she will be sentenced to death row. I doubt she will ever be executed. A do-over will come at a high price for the taxpayers, but the State has the right to finish this. If another penalty phase is best handled by letting the judge sentence her, then I feel she will receive LWOP by this judge. She knows the odds of JA ever being put to death. It is not likely to happen.
Sometimes we have no control over someone else’s fate. What will happen to her is already written and we have to let go and trust that this evil person will no longer walk free again. It wasn’t the will of the jurors to sentence her to death yet. It was the plan of a higher power perhaps. Maybe He was in control of that decision. Her time will come. We just have to be patient. I don’t mean to sound like I’m preaching, but when things don’t go the way we want, sometimes it means there’s another plan. I have learned this many times over in my line of work.
Thx, Blink. I’ll try to be less Wordy.
Sue, Q. for you. Is an LWOP inmate on higher security, until they earn less supervision? I posted the matrix for behavior and priveleges here before, but now can’t find it.
I just had a blinding thought: what if she escapes?
Perryville Prison stats.
Warden Judy looks like my kind of girl.
http://www.azcorrections.gov/prisons/Prisca_Prisons_Perryvil.aspx
jeni says:
May 27, 2013 at 3:42 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Jeni, I think when you take the jury foreperson’s comment “something just doesn’t wash” in context, he appears to be referring to the stark contrast between JA’s calm, diminutive appearance in court and the sheer savagery of this murder.
His comment about reaching out Arias, is very unusual, imo. Why would a male juror want to reach out to a convicted capital murderess, especially after viewing her work-product in all those horrific autopsy photos? It reminds me of the boundary issues that Samuels and LaViolette had with her.