Jodi Arias Trial Verdict IS IN: GUILTY Of MURDER In The Slaying Of Travis Alexander
Image courtesy Arias
Phoenix, AZ- In the 4 month long trial of Jodi Ann Arias for the murder of her brief boyfriend Travis Victor Alexander, the jury deliberating since last Friday has arrived at a verdict in her case. Arias was found guilty of the pre-meditated murder of Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008.
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@ Ode says:
June 16, 2013 at 8:02 am
I absolute love and adore you heart. You have the ability to see the goodness in people. It’s something we all have to work at, but, you seem to come by it so naturally. God’s gift to you!
I’m so happy and BLESSED our paths crossed. I appreciate your kindness and encouragement, more than you could ever know. My heart spills over with joy as I write this. God bless you my dear dear friendy….and you’re daddy, too xo xo xo
May I?
This day is so bitter sweet for me. My dad before he could meet his daughter and son in law and his grandchildren. They would have been over-the-top spoiled with love, wisdom and child like fun.
I miss him too much. My life and my future wasn’t what I thought it would be…BUT…I am so grateful for the time he was in my life. I am so grateful to God, to have a father who was involved in his children’s lives. I’m grateful to God for being a Father to the fatherless.
God bless all father’s, mentors…anyone who’s a father figure to some appreciative heart, young or old.
Happy Father’s day to all the BOC daddies and granddaddies, out there! WE LOVE YOU <3
I couldn’t have said it better…
http://thedailycougar.com/2013/06/17/jodi-arias-not-worth-tax-payers-dollars/
lyla says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:40 am
—–
Lyla, great link. Very objective point of view.
IN GENERAL
It is REALLY interesting to me at how the perspective on this case is morphing now that there is no daily coverage.
Without the barrage of talking heads weighing,the case becomes more symbolic and in a way, less personal…
I am kind of hoping that there will be no more camera coverage, but that the transcripts will be available….
Hey, Rags, you missed my long ago “I love you!” and I just wanted to tell you that there are hundreds of people who read here and don’t comment. (I know cuz one time I looked, well, more than one time, behind the curt.tin. where Blink keeps her webby informashon. I talk like I’m smaller because it was pretty scary and fun.)
Ahem! …Some of us comment once in a while and sometimes feel shut down a bit, but we know that the greater good is worth more than our pride or our feeling of being included, even when we (I) get feelers hurt. So I hope you’ll keep on trooping here and take breaks where you want and need. Blink on Crime needs your bright light, Ragdoll!
I appreciate all those who are experts in their fields who share with us and those who share from personal experience (the greatest teacher?). Their voices ring with integrity! As for me, I am more of a “Jack of all trades, Master of none.” (the original Elizabethan era phrase may not have been as impuning, though, as we think today: the Renaissance was still a happenin’.)
And so as a generalist, I travel. As I meet others, I hope to share advocacy for victims and to be a clear voice to counter and shutdown the Jodi Arias’ of this world. Travis’ friends were trying to ice her out, but there has to be an earlier signal/command that she take her ‘crappe’ elsewhere. PRN.
We’ve got to recognize evil and call it out–promptly and consistently.
O/T:
B
Lyla, thx for the article on the cost of a death row inmate. I read two comments following it and wanted to post one point of view.
“Becky writes:
My father was murdered by two men. One of the men received life in Texas and the other received the death penalty. I can only speak for myself, but it was much, much harder on me having to go through all of the years of appeals and then the grieving process resumed when the date of his execution was set. He was ultimately executed by lethal injection. I rarely even think of the man serving life. I believe it would be wise to lock Jodi Arias away for the rest of her natural life and that it would be much easier on the Alexander family and the tax payers. Justice has already been served. She was found guilty.”
Thanks for the bolo tie Ode. It is the one type I did not have.
Praying for MOM3.0′s father and the doctors. May he get well soon.
Didn’t check this thread often enough. Master William Gage didn’t meet his delivery schedule and it took an emergency “C” section to save his and his mother’s life. We were all busy during that time. Having personally helped to deliver his maternal grandmother, I can appreciate what the doctors were doing.
Thanks to all for a happy fathers day wish.
I started thinking about Blink and her dad on Saturday, hoping that she and family were making arrangements to make his day special.
1. Blessings for the health of Master William Gage and his Mother, your grand daughter in law. Young Will is making sure he earns his name- you have to know that is the finest of entrances. Expect big things of this fine baby.
2. A better Father’s Day I do not recall- thank you for thinking of us. During Mamere’s/ Gra Mere’s illness over the last year- her prized roses passed with her, unfortunately. We spent the day replacing them, and other important landscape architecture maintenance that was stressing my Daddy – as it was Mom’s baby- which he also takes great pride in.
That said, there is nothing like spending the day in the dirt with one’s Dad- even at my age. I recommend it highly.
B
@ Word Girl says:
June 17, 2013 at 8:13 pm
My day has NOT started off well. Then I see your beautiful message and I feel joy! Thank you sooooo soooooo much for your love and friendship. I feel the same way about you. I pray you know that in your heart.
I wish I could give you a hug. I do thank God for you, WG, and who you are in this world. I appreciate you, heart and soul.
God bless your dear heart, xo xo xo
PS….and thank you for keeping the truth in perspective. I lose sight of it now and then. A good nudge from you did the trick
PSS….never been called a ‘bright light’. From you, that is a compliment of compliments. *tears* <—– grateful ones
@ A Texas Grandfather says:
June 17, 2013 at 11:40 pm
welcome MWG to the world! Better late than never. God bless his wee heart now and forever xo xo xo
Blink, what can we expect to happen during the June 20 hearing in the JA case? Will it be a lengthy hearing? Will the Alexander family be in attendance? Will it still be JM prosecuting this case if a new jury is to be seated?
If I am understanding you correctly, you believe that a new jury will be selected. Will Wilmott and Nurmi still be JA’s lawyers for the duration of all legal matters right up until she is sentenced? Does one get different lawyers for appeals process?
Sorry for all the questions, but I really am trying to prepare myself for the next episode of the JA show.
My heart goes out to the Alexander family and I wish for them to be able to come out the otherside of this still standing strong.
They will meet to discuss status, and I presume they will formally decide on the plan to empanel a new sentencing jury or ask Judge Stephens to rule on the matter as to LWOP or LWP. She will have the same counsel and Juan Martinez will stay the prosecutor for the State, unless there is some decision through the AG I am not aware of.
I know everyone feels very passionately about this, and so do I, but I absolutely believe it is a wasted exercise and a waste of tax payer money to empanel a new jury in this case. This case has enough appellate issues as it is.
B
O/T: I am fortunate that I share my Mother’s love of all things gardening. My Sweet Daddy’s only flora and fona obsession is his lawn, lol. I am not going to lie and I apologize to all reading this o/t but without question this has been the hardest year of my life and I had the blessing of being able to say goodbye.
I function on grief’s clock a bit; I know that and have accepted it and all that entails. I concede I am not going to win the grief obsolescence race after 11 months of that being my goal. No dice. I equate such loss with the feeling of thinking you know everything until something happens to make you realize you know nothing with the birth of your first child. How ironic it really comes full circle.
Here’s the rub- because this is very germane to Holly’s case or most cases I write about or work on- all losses are not created equal. Someone taking the life of someone you love is an entirely different set of grief circumstances. Someone choosing to take their own life is not something I understand outside of the academics and the ability to analyze one from a criminalist perspective.
It is critically important this family and Holly’s friends get the answers they need. It is not just about the “who dunnit” or the “who mighta dunnit”.
Thank you ATG, as always.
XOXO
B
@Blink
Grief is hard and it has got me in bed a lot , nothing seems important with out my husband so we share this hard year
But I hard a hard time in 1996 when my mom died and also in 2006 when my daughter died and then my grand daughter
One day I woke up and things were Ok again so I know it gets OK some day
Your blog has carried me threw a lot I so enjoy the talk on cases here I think my taking part here
Has done a lot to heal
Thanks
O/T
O/T Malty- I am humbled by your kindness and resiliency. I am motivated by your thoughts on healing. We all carry each other, imo, and especially those that bring us together in the first place. ( Ky)
B
I am concerned for the Alexander’s also 5 yrs of sorrow
Is a long time
Bless them
Also is it me or what it seems like kids are missing everywhere this week and some woman is accused over drugging kids.
re “….I absolutely believe it is a wasted exercise and a waste of tax payer money to empanel a new jury in this case. This case has enough appellate issues as it is.”
there is the media motive in the prosecutor’s office. Lots of autographs yet to be signed on the Courthouse steps.
& interviews (or book) yet possible for Defendant. Publicity trumps the public purse. & victim’s survivors’ preferences afford prosecutor motive cover.
And on it goes:
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/jodi-arias-update-prosecution-wants-judge-to-deny-arias-request-to-push-back-trial
I read the motion that Nurmi put forth to postpone the penalty phase til January. He cites the constitutional right to submit all mitigating evdidence, and says basically that his schedule and Willmot’s schedule are full, and that they will need that time to get witnesses.
As a layman, I have simple questions.
1. Why didnt Nurmi put forth this issue as soon as the penalty phase was announced to begin July 18th? Was he thinking that Martinez or Montgomerey would offer a plea bargain, and this new motion is a response to the fact that State did not ?
2. Nurmi chose to call NO witnesses in the penalty phase, but now is apparently saying that he needs tome to find them. What changed his mind?
3. Is there anything like a ” staute of limitations” regarding bringing forth witnesses during a trial? In other words, would his request be more in keeping with a formal appeal?
4. When a lawyer tries to get off a case so many times, and puts forth so many motions, does that affect how a judge will perceive these motions? Nurmi has a history of putting forth reasons he cannot continue on the case, and then saying okay If I have to stay on, I need this this and this.
5. Why don’t Nurmi asked to be recused from other cases they have on their docket?
I keep getting the feeling that the defense is using loopholes and legal maneuvering, though I am trying to stay open minded.
O/T
My sincere thanks to all who are keeping my Dad in your thoughts and prayers.
Blink/Christina thank you ever so much for your kindness. I once told you that no one is alone or a failure who has friends…
I am grateful for our friendship, and the camaraderie that exists here on your blog.
My Dad is still in the hospital- they solved part of the problem with changing meds but he may require further surgery.
If its not too much to ask please continue to keep us in your thoughts and prayers.
May my Dad have a full and speedy recovery Amen
I hope everyones Father day was good-
Thank you Peace
It is not, and he is, as you and your family are.
B
more thoughts on mitigation witnesses for Arias:
It occurs to me that it has been a minimum of SEVEN years since Arias was involved with anyone outside of Travis’s sphere.
It also appears that Arias did not have any closely involved relationships during her time of fixation on Travis.
So if they cant get anyone who has known her well in the past seven years to offer mitigation,what does that leave the defense with? People from her childhood, people who say she was a good waitress or a good student in art class?
I am not trying to be facetious, it is just bewildering that the defense is saying they need so much time to find someone to testify in the penalty phase, when they have been on this case for 5 years. If there were truly irrefutable mitigating factors that could come into play during the penalty phase, why hasn’t the defense been aware of them from the get go?
may have gotten the timeline off in my previous post-
according to Daryl Brewer, Arias was meeting with mormons in the spring and summer of 2006, and was getting involved with Pre Pid Legal at the same time.. According to Arias she met travis in september of 2006 and was introduced to mormonism through him. So, apparently six or seven years at this point since she had any relationship wholly independant of Travis.
RE: whodunit
Keep in mind Darryl Brewer was waiting in his hotel to be called to testify the day Nurmi pulled his last stunt i.e. we don’t like the court so we’re not playing ball. Also from what I’ve read AVL was originally to be a mitigation witness if need be. As a paid expert witness for the defense and he can still call her anytime (more like a subpena from what I understand regardless if she wants to or not). Also JA’s entire family was here that day, and the Aunt obviously has had time to come to court in the past.
It appears JA doesn’t have any friends, aside from Brewer, from the time she stopped communicating with her old childhood friend, they parted ways around the age 20. Given the difficulty people with BPD have with relationships, one of the main criteria, it’s not at all surprising to me she most likely focused exclusively on whoever her boyfriends were at the time (not just TA).
This is by no means an excuse not to proceed, in fact I think it speaks volumes as to evidence of mitigation…that she has none.
Beth says:
June 20, 2013 at 8:24 am
This is by no means an excuse not to proceed, in fact I think it speaks volumes as to evidence of mitigation…that she has none.
————-
if she has no mitigation witnesses in time for the JUly 18th re trial of penalty phase, how can the defense put that problem to the court as a motion to postpone? Wouldn’t they at least have to show exactly who they intend to call and why, and also why they cant be prepared by 18th? All they said in their motion was that they had conflicting schedules and needed time to find witnesses- they were not specific as to whether those witness were mental health people or what. When will it end ( lol)
n response to the questions raised by whodunnit; an attorney speaking about the case on Fox cable this morning raised the same questions. His solution was to search Mars for someone to help JA and counsel.
This woman has no one other than family and maybe DB that could testify on her behalf.
Counsel for JA are IMO attempting to punish the court for keeping them on the case. This is why DB was not called previously.
Sociopathic behavior destroys relationships on a continuous basis so a person with these problems will have only one or two people who are friends in spite of the behavior.
Today’s hearing:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-jurors-attend-status-hearing/story?id=19443669
Ragdoll, I want to thank you for keeping the truth in perspective.
It’s so very important to accept the truth about yourself–no matter how beautiful it is.
Pax Domini
A Texas Grandfather says:
June 20, 2013 at 1:51 pm
snips from ATG post:
n response to the questions raised by whodunnit; an attorney speaking about the case on Fox cable this morning raised the same questions. His solution was to search Mars for someone to help JA and counsel.
and
Counsel for JA are IMO attempting to punish the court for keeping them on the case. This is why DB was not called previously.
——————-
Thanks ATG for the chuckle about getting witnesses from Mars.
And you have confirmed my fear that the defense was pushing legal boundaries simply for the purpose of doing so. Dissapointing.
Congratulations A Texas Grandfather on your grandson Master William Gage. How precious. Grandchildren. Or as I more commonly refer to the Grandparents “Oldies with Goodies” haha!
Malty says:
June 19, 2013 at 12:48 pm
Also is it me or what it seems like kids are missing everywhere this week and some woman is accused over drugging kids.
—————————————————————-
Malty, you are right. Now it’s baby Elaina. This case reminds me of Lisa Irwin (whatever happened to her?. Where would we be without the media (less hyped out I guess). Now, how many more months before JA gets her just rewards. Also, really, what is the definition of a (“speedy trial?”).
Blink, thanks for mentioning Ky.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/13/missing-baby-elainas-mother-arrested
blink, can you please explain what, if anything, happened today in court and what does it all mean?
I wasn’t sure what is going on because I don’t have cable right now so unable to watch the shows to find out what happened today?
My caseload is winning the battle for updates today tiberious- anyone?
B
@lyla
Glued to baby E. another case with so many characters I am trying to figure it out
I thought Jodi looked relaxed and great in stripes LOL.
@ iberious says:
June 20, 2013 at 10:59 pm
The sentencing phase is delayed, but IIRC, a date has not been set.
What took place in that court room was freaky. Arias came into court, in prison gear, belt around waist, with wrist and ankle shackles. I caught it before it was even mentioned…..she looked ‘dark and evil’.
As it turned out, she had a staring contest. 2 of the jurors were present, to support the Alexander family. You could tell Arias was having a stare down match…but from the angle of the camera, it was impossible to tell with home.
Juror # 17, Tara Harris Kelley was on the receiving end. It was the first time I’ve ever noticed her eyes were black and cold/empty. The REAL Jodi Arias made herself known today. She is definitely someone to fear.
-snipped
Arias was in court with her lawyers to settle several issues, but Judge Sherry Stephens did not set a date for a new trial on whether Arias should get the death penalty.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-back-court-striped-prison-jumpsuit-shackles/story?id=19443669#.UcPqTfnVCSo
@ WG
LOVE LOVE LOVE, my sister friend!
@ Mom3.0….. prayers will be said for a speedy recovery. God bless you and your family, sweet friendy.
They extended the STATUS hearing until July 18.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IA1x4KGrxA
July hearing set to decide on Jodi Arias sentencing retrial
“As part of the process to resolve the mistrial in the penalty phase, Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Sherry Stephens met with lawyers behind closed doors on Thursday. The judge scheduled a hearing on July 18 for arguments over whether Arias should face a new jury to decide on the death penalty or life in prison.”
http://news.yahoo.com/july-hearing-set-decide-jodi-arias-sentencing-retrial-184129781.html
Btw, Linda Kenney Baden and other defense attorneys on HLN were discussing the affects of the DP (should it be pursued) on the Alexander family. Because of the appeal process which could go on for years and years, it could mean more frustration for the Alexander family. I know they want her dead but the emotional affects could be devastating because of the appeal process and media coverage. I also think a plea deal may still be in the works..jmo.
From OregonLive regarding Gary Haugen who killed two people and was given the DP and wants to die but our Governor who is a physician will not allow him to be executed.
“Let’s get rid of the death penalty entirely and place those dollars in programs that really do work to reduce violent crime and save young children from taking the unfortunate path that Haugen was placed on. We encourage Gov. John Kitzhaber to appeal and uphold his right to declare the moratorium on executions. We encourage all Oregonians to engage in the debate and learn the facts about the death penalty. It is a failed public policy that is very hard to defend.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/08/death_penalty_shouldnt_stand_a.html
Thank you Ragdoll and NaNa for you thoughts about MWG and his arrival.
Next weekend we plan on making a visit. Because of the “C” section, his mom was kept in the hospital for six days. We will get to hold him instead of just looking.
About the only time I felt comfortable with the DP was in WA state and Westly Allen Dodd
And he requested it hanging. 1993
But not everyone sees things the same
@Malty
Westley Allen Dodd…absolutely horrific crimes. I didn’t realize the DP was by hanging in WA State. He wanted to die. Can you imagine the impact of his evilness on his family and the families of the deceased…excruciatingly painful.
I don’t think there will ever be programs that will reduce violent crimes. Violent crimes will be committed as long as the world stands. Violent people will always find a way to commit the crimes, and some people cannot be helped by any program. I believe the best way to deter crime is,once the death sentence has been given, stop all appeals and carry out the sentence. JMO, and I don’t mean to sound cold and hard hearted, I just think once the sentence is given, get it over ASAP.
In a way, this is off topic, but I am looking at the trail now in terms of a possible penalty phase, so have been going back to Arias interviews that would illustrate her frame of mind at time of crime….
The link I am including will be very frustrating for those that beleive Arias was acting in fear for her life. This is from the post verdict interview.
Bears watching , especially in the context that there is so much consideration being given to her mental state, which is the basis for her claim of self defense. In this recounting of the crime, Arias puts forth a slightly different scenario than she did on the stand. She says Travis and her were engaged in ” idle chit chat about the photos- which ones to keep, which ones to delete, yet we know that none of the photos of him in the shower were saved. She says that the threat of ” I’m going to kill you ” from Travis ” evolved.
Having said all this, I guess it does show she is nutty, if thats how you wanna look at it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=1fH3B2Ym2NA&NR=1
Lifetime is going have the movie about Jodi to night and I wonder if that is a great idea I don’t get lifetime since I dropped down to a cheaper membership so I will miss out
But it seems to soon to me IMO
@malty: I remember the westley allen dodd case very well, as it happened only 15 miles from me. He was so evil, but interestingly
enough, he knew it. I sure was relieved when he was caught.
hello all-
My dad is hopefully on the mend and i still would appreciate everyones prayers i do believe in the power of power. so thank you from the very bottom of my heart
I am taking a break from the stress of my real life- and rejoining the conversation- I hope you are all willing to pick up where we left off- again i apologize for abruptly leaving.
I hope to respond to everyone soon, but i wont be at full BOC frce for awhile…
Great posts since i have been gone- as always you are all very insightful.
TGF congrats and take care.
Blink thanks for everything.
power of prayer not power geez
see i told you im not at BOC force yet..
RE Sue says:
June 10, 2013 at 5:19 pm
Mom 3.0 – I wish I had a dime for every convict in prison who has BPD or anti-social personality disorder, or any other personality disorder on record.
_
I hear ya, and i agree
But again not all people who have these conditions commit crimes…. is there a common denominator that we are missing in those that do? Perhaps we can figure out what that may be so we can better treat them so they dont become criminals and tax our system to the breaking point.
____________
Sue:
The courts don’t recognize these disorders as leniency in sentencing.
-
No they do not- but I am not just speaking directly toward leniency i am speaking to the jury being privy to all information which may help them to weigh facts and circumstances info that could fill in a piece of the puzzle- If JA does suffer from BPD especially with severe dissociation then THAT info could have been very important to the jurors deliberations – the same as it is to consider all evidence to connect dots to prove premeditation and heinous cruelty
Remember this case was never about the who only the why and how so as to impose the most appropriate sentencing
Did She premeditate the killing or did she simply go off the grid inorder to better keep up the agreed upon secrecy of their liaisons…
Was she a cold, calculating cruel murderess or was she simply going to meet up with Travis to sedate her appetite and his -was it a crime of passion, or perhaps a form of self defense brought on by some unforseen set of circumstances to which she blacked out due to a mental health disorder and has no recollection to her murderous actions… Or?
IDK
AJMO
cont part 2
RE Sue says:
June 10, 2013 at 5:19 pm
They are dangerous traits to have depending on many factors, and there are no passes given, even if there are mitigating circumstances. Many times they are not even brought out in trial.
-
Yes, I see your point and it is true these can be dangerous disorders with devastating characteristics it would seem for those who receive no treatment or meds especially.
I am not talking about a pass Sue, i am talking about a court of law presenting the facts, all of the facts which may help a jury reach a fair and just verdict…
not based on smoke screens and theories but instead on verifiable evidence regardless if that evidence includes mental health diagnosis, blood evidence, testimony or other.
__________
Sue:
A killer is a killer, and many jurors would be confused or distracted in this being brought up in trial. It could even work against the defendant.
-
Yes the complexity of any info may confuse or distract the jurors and this is certainly so for a complex truth-
as Alexis De Tocqueville once opined-
(pp) It is easier to accept a simple lie than a complex truth
But just because its easier, doesnt mean the complex info/truth should not be presented at trial I think for the most part jurors take there duty seriously.
A killer is a killer? No— a killer is not a killer, its not as simply as that – theres self defense, war etc
And then it gets even more complicated Hence our system where we have First degree Second Degree…. Third degree murder
“Murder is one of several crimes which is prosecuted with respect to degrees of severity.”
AJMO
Cont part 3
RE Sue says:
June 10, 2013 at 5:19 pm
Hey Sue, thanks again for having this discussion with me/us- i hope you are still hovering about and willing to cont- as i do look forward to further discussion.
You wrote;
Being in a dissociative state is difficult to prove
-
Yes this would be so for most cases
______________
Sue;
and in JA case the jurors had their doubts about her fog.
-
Yes they did and i think this was due in part to the defenses poor showing,
but also due to the prosecutions wrong assertions which opted to go with the simple lie that was/is the fog/dissociation PTSD was a joke simply absurd all based on typical memory and the length of the gap… DESPITE the fact that the prosecutions own diagnosis BPD can include such characteristics
________
Sue:
It is a long shot of a defense, especially when you have good evidence.
-
Yes true as is for any defense in such a case where the defendant has confessed to such a gruesome crime… . it would be a longshot as most jurors/bystanders seeing the graphic horror would want someone to pay regardless of the circumstances and that someone is already known with out a doubt all thats left to figure out is the degree of severity IRT sentencing- AND the Truth which I believe we can obtain thru careful review off all facts and info regardless of the complexities.
Good evidence? Well again they did have a confession…. they did have blood evidence, and a palm print, fiber evidence, receipts, texts, journals, and interviews, all of which wasnt presented in full. In addition They had camera/ photo evidence which wasnt presented in full and which i emphatically state does not reflect what the Prosecution claims and the defense agreed upon.
In truth at its simplest- All of it is highly questionable due to chain of custody issues, or failure to secure info and evidence or follow up on testing etc… all questionable due to contradictory witness testimony and so on
So yeah, I beg to differ as to it being good evidence.
What was presented at trial was sorely lacking from an investigative standpoint a CSI standpoint as well as a presentation standpoint on BOTH sides
And had the State and LE had done its best i wouldnt have any of these concerns over the evidence – i would be able to follow the evidence and conclude a job well done… ALAS i can not
and if JA had the very best in defense teams or even one that was a thorough and wise as Jose Baez & his team of pro bono experts like LKB, Andrea lyon etc I assure you this would have been a HIGHLY defndable case
JA was never innocent she admitted to killing him All that was left to decide was the sentence…
So where is the truth? So much wasnt brought to light and so much more was brushed over…
Where is the justice in that?
__________
Sue:
It is almost too convenient and has to be proven beyond a shadow of doubt and other serious MH condition(s) usually have to accompany in order to be believed.
-
Well, as to other conditions being present, there were findings which seem to suggest as much we have BPD which often accompanies PTSD, abuse, then we have talk of DID and anxiety disorders, and PS not otherwise specified, and Demartes thoughts on possible adjustment disorder.. so yeah there may have been more … we cant know as it wasnt presented fully.
Convenient? Actually IF it is the truth of the matter, it isnt convenient, if true JA was not served by the defense presented and truth and justice werent served either
For if JA did suffer from BPD and all that condition can entail, then she may have blacked out totally and cant remember the lead up the attack nor most of the cleanup..
and as you yourself have pointed out- this defense even if the truth would be a hard defense to sell..
Still IMO this would have been a far better defense than what was presented at trial-
Sue,
facts and/or evidence do NOT have to be proven Beyond a SHADOW of a doubt- it is to to be proven beyond a REASONABLE doubt — i think that is a huge difference- but one which I think trips up many a juror.
AJMO Cont Part 4
RE Sue says:
June 10, 2013 at 5:19 pm
You went on to write;
In the case of JA, if you were the defense attorney, how would you have presented a convincing argument in regards to her dissociative state of mind during the act of murdering TA?
-I am not trying to play her defense attorney, but it seems to me that her defense presented part of this information already through Samuels –
The dissociative fog, the PTSD, it just was wrapped up in a very flimsy theory of DMV and a time magazine article along with extreme info regarding the hippocampus… to include pedophilia- and the Law of Attraction etc
How convincing would it have been to present a dissociative disorder in conjunction with BPD? i can not say but i can say IMO it would have been alot more believable than what was presented by Nurmi and Wilmott.
i know this from stumbling upon the info through research, which led me to one question than to another which if the jury was given the same info MAY have led just one to entertain reasonable doubt as to the degree and severity..
_____
Sue:
How would you set up the scenario? Knowing what you know about BPD, and some of the negative characteristics of this disorder, how would you have presented this as a causative effect in the murder of TA and a possible find that it would or could reduce some of the responsibility in her actions?
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Again I am not her defense team but if i were then certainly I would have researched and crossed Demarte and found better experts to speak to BPD and all I have only touched upon here at BOC…
As i have already said, If this is the truth of the matter, than it could go to the argument that Travis murder was not eligible for first degree premeditated but possibly Second degree murder or third degree…
We cant know which degree was most appropriate IMO, because this info was not brought to light
cont part 5
ajmo
RE Sue
Sue, Taking all emotions out of it- stepping away from the brutality what did the prosecution present as the facts, what was missing?
what if anything presented by the prosecution seemed to bolster the defenses case?
what went to disprove the defense ?
What did JMs 2 week case prove?
What did the defense case attempt but fail to prove?
we know the who the jury was decide the degree/severity and the sentence
the jury weighed only that evidence which was presented which IMO was not complete
As I have attempted to illustrate, if the defense would have countered Demartes testimony by exploring the disorder to the fullest then the prosecutions own star mental health professional WOULD have been turned into a defense witness or at the very least would have been called out on her lack of knowledge and candor which may have brought into question her ability to hide and distort facts and info to serve the prosecutions theory instead of her Hippocratic Oath
———
RE Sue says:
June 10, 2013 at 5:19 pm
Sue;
Do you think jurors would believe this disorder could lessen her accountability in the savage attack on TA OR contribute to it?
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I dont know what the jurors would think- but I am all for presenting the facts and allowing them to make informed decisions..
IIRC they had question after question for JA and her fog and the surrounding circumstances around the attack and its aftermath…it seems to me they were working hard to fill in the holes the defense left and the prosecution failed to address.
______
SUe:
And would you want to take the chance by making this your sole argument in defending her?
_
First I am not suggesting this be the “sole” argument just part of the information presented and weighed… and it seems to me that IF all the facts of BPD were delved into, then the truth, as it it were, may in fact prove to be far more complicated than what this jury was lead to believe by either side— and could have went to answer many of those questions they asked over and over of JA of Demarte of Samuels of ALV
______
Sue:
would you want to take the chance ?
-very good question Sue, and i’ll answer it this way- THIS defense bolstered by the prosecutions own MH expert, and by key info presented by the defenses own experts, told a story part of a story what if all info regarding this disorder to include possible comorbidity such as DID etc, was presented, what would have been the story would it be more complete?
To me it seems like a far better chance than the one this defense banked on.
AJMO
Cont Part 6
RE Sue says:
June 10, 2013 at 5:19 pm
You wrote;
Keep in mind, a prosecutor will be waiting to argue against you and bring on the best specialists to counter your strategy.
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True, and again, why didnt the prosecution do this?
why didnt they hire better experts then just the county coroner or Demarte?
Why didnt the defense argue against these experts better?
Why didnt they supply better experts to counter ?
IRT Demarte, why didnt they follow up with any of this info in questioning her on BPD and what that might mean for their client in relation to if she was telling the truth…on the PTSD and all the rest?
why wasnt any of this info brought forth by Demarte or the defense ?
About those experts I ask you, how good were the experts?
I know ALV and Samuels fell very short..but again Samuels did bring up DID and he brought up PTSD and dissociative amnesia along with other disorders that werent followed up.. and it seems a # of the jurors did believe there was some DV perhaps to include physical…
So had the defense done a better job in countering the prosecutions expert witnesses could they have succeeded ?
I believe they may have saved her life, yes
But what of JMs experts?
Demarte She had to have known everything I presented here on BOC – yet she sat up there as an expert discussing BPD on the stand spewing watered down malarky about typical memory, too Huge of gaps, definitely no PTSD and so on…she failed to even scratch the surface of the disorder and how it most definitely can exhibit these characteristics and more, which in all truth go to bolster the defenses case rather than the prosecutions…
.
And then we have the ME Dr Horn- who IMO fell far more short as an expert truthful witness than Samuels, Demarte or even arguably ALV did..
more on this in Part 7
AJMO
You wrote:
I ask this today, because I am awed by the passion of your arguments, and they are good arguments and ones that defendants like JA could use.
Thank you, I am passionate about holding people accountable I am passionate about presenting the facts and evidence all of the facts all of the evidence and letting the jury weigh and decide based on a complete set of facts and evidence every defendant is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt-
How can we do this if all the facts and evidence is not presented?
You said, I think you would make a great defense attorney-
thank you, but the truth is i would not, for I could never defend someone who I believed to be guilty and I am far too opinionated to leave my emotions and sense at the door.
perhaps I could be a jury consultant, pointing out the holes/flaws for the defense/prosecution to address fully? You and Who and all of BOC could join me, i think wed be great.
AJMO cont part 7
Part 7
The prosecutions case or The testimony of Dr horn
As many have pointed out before Dr horns testimony IRT the gunshot,
most definitely being incapacitating or soon fatal is less than truthful
it is very possible that someone shot in the head with a 25 would not be incapacitated and may not have succumbed instantly in fact the person may not have realized they were shot
Horn took the stand and testified;
Horn: The trajectory is this way and the cheek is in this location, so the bullet ends up here. So you can see that it enters the skull here, and why we have a larger fractured exit point is because the bullet has begun to tumble and deform, and you get a larger exit as the bullet is deformed by the bone.
Martinez: So it isn’t a situation where the bullet then goes down in this direction, but it actually keeps going this direction, is that ..?
Horn: Yes, it goes down below the skull into the face.
Martinez: And if it goes down in that direction, do you have an opinion as to what would have happened once that shot struck Mr. Alexander in the front portion of his face?
Horn:If it had been the last wound nothing, because he was already dead. If it’s the first wound and it’s passing through his frontal lobe, that bullet is tumbling and deforming and it’s causing a large temporary cavity which is involving areas of brain, even away from the frontal lobe, that this person would have collapsed.
Martinez: Is there something to a bullet involving, for example, concussive affect, in other words , it’s not just the item that is going through, but is there any sort of, for lack of a better term, radiation of energy that goes from there?
Horn: A bullet as it passes through something soft like brain, will create what is called a temporary cavity, and you see that in ballistic gelatin when you test fire a bullet through gelatin. You see it in the ballistic labs. It’s the same concept in the brain. You get a very large open area that squashes the brain around it into the skull around it, and then that will collapse back down … and you may be able to see a wound track, but in this case, we don’t. But it damages areas of the brain away from the frontal lobe, even only passing through that one part of the brain, other areas of the brain are involved and damaged.
Martinez: So if it was the first shot, what is your opinion as to whether or not Mr. Alexander would have been incapacitated?
Horn: He would have been incapacitated.
Martinez: And would this have been an immediate sort of reaction, seconds?
Horn: Yes.
Martinez: By seconds, how many seconds would you indicate?
Horn: A second or two. He would collapse to the ground and be unresponsive.
end snip
____________________
—Again Our research here on BOC goes to show that this does not HAVE to be the case- we came up with a # of cases where a small caliber bullet or other projectile, even to include large caliber bullets do not prove fatal or rapidly incapacitating- some of these cases are legendary…
yet Horn went on to testify:
Horn: I call it a temporary cavity, yes.
Wilmott: Okay, and so does that mean, in your opinion, any time someone is hit by a projectile in their frontal lobe, they will automatically be incapacitated due to this shock wave?
Horn: I’m talking about my experience with similar cases, yes.
Wilmott: So just in your experience?
Horn: Yes.
Wilmott: Okay. So you are not familiar with any research then?
Horn: Not explicitly today, no.
Wilmott: Okay, so you’re not familiar with research that talks about specifically people getting hit with projectiles in their frontal lobe and not being incapacitated. Are you aware of that?
Horn: No.
Wilmott: So you don’t do that extra research as a part of your job?
Horn: No.
Wilmott: And you don’t keep up with the current research that tells us about projectiles and brains?
Horn: I have read articles, but no, I can’t quote any articles to you today.
Wilmott: Okay. And so, based on what you’re telling us, is that every time the right frontal lobe has a projectile go through it, regardless of the calibre, it’s going to immediately incapacitate?
Horn: That’s been my experience with these cases, yes.
Wilmott: And that’s been your experience, but not looking outside your experience, right?
Horn: Well, my colleagues cases as well, similar cases that we’ve investigated.
Wilmott: And not any research?
Horn: Not any independent research, no.
End snip
_____________
Why didnt Wilmott cross Horn on his glaring lack of knowledge why didnt they present there own expert to counter Horns outlandish assertions??
With careful review of Dr horns autopsy report I believe it becomes apparent what Blink has always stated-
Dr horn’s findings bolster Flores earliest assertions and the defense sequence of events-
Cont part 8
AJMO
O/T: Nice to see you friend and glad to hear your Pop is better. My sweet lord how I can relate to your journey.
The only reason i can come up with that Wilmott and Nurmi did not challenge Dr. Horn on that issue is that they were precluded from doing so based on the defense assertion the State came up with a new theory after the fact, in fact, after the aggravators hearing. In a death penalty case, it cannot be multiple choice fill ins.
Alternatively, Willmott may not be particularly savvy in forensics, and as an observation I believe that was the case- but I would say the same about Martinez.
Don’t make me whip out my cycle of the blowfly schematics, lol.
I believe strongly this is grounds for a new trial- and to my knowledge we have one pending interlocutory filing.
It does not mean I agree with it, as you point out I am on record, but as a “standard” or precedent under our constitution we need to have our jurisprudence functioning on all cylinders.
The ME in a homicide case changed his tune years after the fact. This needs further exploration, imo.
When I say this needs further exploration it pisses me off. As I said, this is coming back, and I feel the outcome is less than desirable.
B