Jodi Arias Trial Verdict IS IN: GUILTY Of MURDER In The Slaying Of Travis Alexander
Image courtesy Arias
Phoenix, AZ- In the 4 month long trial of Jodi Ann Arias for the murder of her brief boyfriend Travis Victor Alexander, the jury deliberating since last Friday has arrived at a verdict in her case. Arias was found guilty of the pre-meditated murder of Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008.
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Re Blink-
I am getting the feeling there is some confusion between the digital camera and the Sony camcorder. What is critically important (outside of the fact that in the States custody 100% of their e-evidence has been altered or compromised).
This is once again referring back to my piece on the matter, and that the SONY camcorder (again, I own one) only used SONY duopro- that format is NOT interchangeable with any other SD card. I know this because without paying attention once I put it in my laptop and had to have the geek squad remove it, lol. The camcorder also has a small internal hardrive which can be set to record to first- and then use the card as needed, or bypassed directly to the card. In the thousands of documents we reviewed we found no notation of the intake of the camcorder being taken into evidence whatsoever. I recall having that conversation with an editor specifically. Bottom line we have evidence that was submitted with knowledge that it was altered, compromised, possibly unusable under forensic protocol and not one State asset alerted the defense as to it’s interpretation ( because under law it must be perceived as favorable to the defendant) as exculpatory. I strongly suspect if I were to string the dates together as to when this occurred, there could be no doubt the State was aware and the question to Martinez once again as to why he threw the camera in open court the way he did is entirely in order.
B
—Blink I know you have written extensively on the duopro matter as well as going on the record that in the States custody 100% of their e-evidence has been altered or compromised…
About that forensic protocol as it pretains to your concerns IRT the camera evidence-
I went back and reviewed I am no where near finished- but several things jumped out at me- on this one day alone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mJ9A39cWyQpocket pc phone
link to Melendez testimony
regarding the camera it was not previously damaged other than the button was loose…BTW this is the same day as the infamous camera drop- which Martinez insists shows no impropriety as the camera was already tested… but interestingly enough it comes after Wilmotts question concerning the “deleted photos and Melendez agrreement that there is no way to tell when these items were deleted..
IRT the cameras”memory stick”- sim card as it turns out Blink- There was no protocol- —
First take note- he says this card was in the camera but then seems to say that he rwas the one that removed it from its “cover” Blink is the duopro in yr camera inside a sleeve or cover? IDK…he goes on to say that he at first attempted to follow safeguarding protocols but …somehow they fall by the wayside once he is unable to get the card to read on his forensic computer machine- He ends up plugging it directly into the card reader …Huh without writeblocker without safeguards…then ALL of those images AND times could have been altered AND in fact no where is there proof that that card was usable in the camera or taken from the camera AT ALL-
as he at first plugged it into card viewer that takes multiple different size cards and reads them….
See below- Please KIM
all times testimony typed to best of my ability-
A- 9IRT) what was found directly on camera via images: No items nothing saved on internal memory
Q what was the condition of the camera- –
A I was able to turn on able to
Q any parts of it broken?
….Abutton to take pic loose
Q any items off of it like the cover in the back/
A no it looks exactly how it looks now
sim card question 350
Qif u put water on it would that effect it capabilities…if it worked
Ait can
Qbleach?
A yes
Qwere u able to look at the camera and see where this sim card was?
A yes I was 418
Qwere u the first one that actually removed it?
Ayes421
Q tell me a ..bit about it safegurds in terms ofprotection from moisture:
427where was the sim card located?
A 429 uuuh the sim card well its not a sim card its a memory stick..Im sorry
..Qdifference?
A its …both are its a similiar type of storage device sims are more used for phones
449
A cont
The memory stick from my recollection it had like a little cover on it…. and then it was in the camera itself inside the area of the camera where u put the memory card in… 459
Q…was it protected from water and that sort of thing
602 Acould have been yes
A shows Memory stick exh # 215
Q Its small isnt it?
A 514 holds up bag yes
….
Q 529 u now have this camera its plugged in what do u do next-
Answers-
after I was done with the camera itself then I went on to the uh actual card
541Q To the what
A to the memory stick media device
Q what did u do w/that? I know that previously u said well i would normally make a mirror image…550use that for the analysis.did u do that here or no?
553 answers:
not exactly the same way …no
Qno,why?
answers 557
what happened is that I connected the..a card to aa card uh viewer…
603 basically u can uh connect multiple different size of cards to it and that is connected to the computer via a usb 609
612
that also i have a usb write blocker which I use ..that gets the a viewer gets connected into the usb blocker which is uh connected into my a forensic computer machine622
623 when i uh tried to bring up the card it wouldnt..it wouldnt uh come up.625
I checked updates on my hardware blocker626 make sure i was completely updated on all the new updates i was… 630 I uh resarted the computer…which is what we typically do in thecomputer world when something doesnt work637 we restart the computer to see if it works..639 tried it again it didnt work
639 I tried it on my other computer cause i had two 642 itried it in my uh partners computer it didnt work
at that time the only alternative I had
645 to try to uh get an image of it was to actually uh stick it into.. 650.used a card reader and actually connected the card reader into my machine
Q were you able to get some results with that?
A at that time659 it did come up and I was able to see it in the computer…701
Cont…. But I stopped there as I was so floored that despite reading yr pieces and watching the trial…I still didnt get just how messed up the evidence collection and preservation was…
Please let me know if I am misinterpreting Melendez testimony …but I think his testimony negates any safeguarding and makes the camera shots memory sticks useless- in fact it seems Jodis questions to Florez that day were pretty close to what MIGHT have happened- we cant know but it seems that concerns over evidence tampering are justified…
AJMO Peace
—
Agreed Mom3.0- absent refuting evidence.
B
Blink I think Ive got more and please let me know if u already noted this and I missed it BUT during this same days testimony
Wilmott asks Melendez about the photos specifically questions on timestamps-
and whether or not his forensic program imbedded the red color stamps on SOME of the pics or not– KIM some of the timestamps are blurry and others crystal clear… and it seems the program doesnt add the color stamps nor did Melendez…again please reel me back in but is meldenez saying the photos stamps were added by someone other than he and if so doesnt that again call into question who and why on some and not others and why unfocused on some-
and doesnt this also call into question the “direction” of the pics took- say that bloody travis pic or the hallway pic..for all we know up may be down and down my be up- is that the floor or the blackness of a doorway- is hat Travis laying on the floor or is it somethingelse?
And didnt Florez already tell Jodi in that video that they had to manipulate the color- and thats why the stripe was blue and not white on her pants?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mJ9A39cWyQ
10200
Q only some of those were timestamped right
A from what i recall yes
Qwhen i say timestamped i mean only u were able to get information from the forensic program u used to get those pictures right?
A right from the dat that the camera imbedded in the file
Q right so inotherwords the info that is on those photos the red writing that actually comes from yr forensic program 10223
A not the red writng itself the information does…
Q oh did u put the red writing on it?
A No
Q somebodyelse did then?
A shrugs shoulders 10231 I dont know little shrug I didnt put the red writing on there
Q alright do u disagree that is the time..in those pictures?
A .. no that is the accurate time 10238
—
Huh if he didnt put the times there and he cant say when pics were deleted how is it he is sure that all is accurate?
AJMO
Peace
As I said then and I will say now- he cannot say any of that with certainty. It is my belief that the reason some are timestamped and some are not is because 2 different programs or devices were used to take or transfer them.
The State in this case is absolutely unqualified to address the evidence origins and interpretations in the matter, period. Add to that in their possession they have tampered with and altered forensic evidence- and never disclosed same to the defense. This is not a hide and seek or shell game discovery issue- like, let’s see if their experts can figure out what we don’t tell them- they presented altered evidence without utilizing proper forensic protocol in the first place. This division should be under investigation.
B
Wanted to include the clip of the camera drop for those who may be wondering what you are referring to Blink-
Unfortunately I am starting to believe there is no other way to look at martinezs actions other than to say he willfully damaged the camera…and this mkes me question his motivations for doing so- just as u have highlighted Blink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mJ9A39cWyQ
at 117 Wilmott asks if Melendez has ny knowledge of when the deleted photos wee deleted he answers No
Martinez up for redirect asks how much time between last shower pic and ceiling pic 45 seconds-
Then the infamous camera drop-11836
AJMO Peace
Not done yet- Hope yr still with me Blink-and all
re Blink
then where the eff are the videos in evidence? Where’s the camcorder?
It is true that a prosecution can choose not to present evidence but they cannot omit or willfully withhold it’s existence from a defendant.
B
—Idk Blink Wilmott seems to be saying that at the time they never had a look at the video camera- -
No sure what vids Numeister was able to pull up- But Im definitely wondering why Defense was not given via discovery and what happened to the tape that was “forced” out? – It seems they could have gottten the tape out by other means then what appears to be “smashing” it?
Idk-
IRT to the discovery and yr comment of:
It is true that a prosecution can choose not to present evidence but they cannot omit or willfully withhold it’s existence from a defendant.
Nurmi tried unsuccessfully to hold them accountable for withholding discovery evidence on the same day of trial:
KIM this testimony may again be pertinent to the question regrding missing simcrds in latest evidentary hearing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mJ9A39cWyQpocket pc phone
Melendez is questioned about the pc phone- and specifically what texts info he was able to see or view-
19822
Q- Talked about pocket PC=phone
yes
Q you were able to look at it
A Yes
Q U were able to power it on?
A Yes
Q because u were able to power it on u were able to look and see if there were text messages and other things on there right?
A Yes
Q but u said u were unable to extract anything off the phone? 10848
Acorrect
Q when u say extracted thats a forensic word right…
A yes
Q so in other words u couldnt plug it into anything to download what was on the phone onto somethingelse?
A correct
Q10856 But u could have taken pictures of everything that was on the phone right?
A It depends
Q well if u had a camera which Im sure MPD does you couldve snapped photos of each text message if u wanted to right?
A my recollection is therewas over 15thousand text messages on that phone 10916
Q so thats quite a few
A yeah not quite a few PLenty
Q10819 ok but there was nothing stopping u from reviewing that an taking pictures of the textmessages?
A If I had 8mnths to do just that..maybe
Q Ok but physically its possible isnt it?
A 10934 yeah if i was given 8mnths to do it yes
mistrial motion- pros. misconduct
Nurmi- 121 50
In prior pleadings when Ms Arias requested copies of the text mess. The states constant refrain in these things was we were asking for things that didnt exist….
Discovery denied-
Nurmi says its the cumulative effect of these actions inactions-
–
Blink first Could Melendez powerup or look at Texts without simcard?
and it seems the prosecution is skirting discovery rules by way of semantics technically the texts did not exist in paper form.. and Melandez didnt have 8mnths…..was the phone offered up to defense to view in light of this? Was Nurmeister the first to examine the phones and couldnt – no simcard..
AJMO Peace
thanks for thinking this all thru with me Blink and Co.
1 By converting to Travis’ Morman religion this is nearly the equal of marriage for it signifies commitment. Yet Travis flip flopped on her and simply disavows this most important step so far in Jodi’s life.
2They were a couple in love and dating for 8 months and Travis suddenly goes astray and begins talking to other women.
3 There is a major effort to be chaste while at the same time he is involved with what many may describe as deviant sex especially to a Mormon. Being both virgin and participating in anal sex at the same time is a rather bizarre and advanced form of hypocrisy on a scale few can claim to equal.
4 He orders her away from him while asking her over for sex at the same time.
5 Travis even presents himself as both financially secure and broke
at the same time.
6 He doesn’t just begin dating other women he dates young virgins right in front of Jodi as if to reveal to Jodi that there is no way Jodi can ever be the woman Travis will marry. Travis was setting a metaphorical bar so high Jodi could never clear it.
7 Travis was enamored with the sex he has with her but it is the sex he has with her that invalidates Jodi as a future wife.
8 Travis literally flip flops good and evil on her.
Thus a woman with no criminal pastor violence in previous relationships loses touch with reality and right vs wrong and murders Travis. He might just as well have conducted public instructional classes on how to get ones self murdered in a relationship for all the hypocrisies this man displayed.
These logical in
@William. I don’t think his behavior with Jodi was unusual at all
for a young male with no strong internal moral values. Well, if true,
porn viewing and sodomy were deviant. And sodomy would not be to
“stay virgin,” it would be a sexual preference.
One is also like one’s mentor friends who often encourage
& validate sexual partner acting out when it is
found. I expect some of his friends engaged in similar behaviors.
Water seeks its own level. I know a young woman who exclusively
dated a remarkable boy with all the right attributes & a perfect family who was a
practicing Catholic to the ne plus ultra. Due to her youth, on parental advice, she tried to break up a
couple times and he talked her out of it. Planned to marry her. Came under the influence
of older college men who encouraged sexual experimentation. When he began to
describe to his sexual feelings on hugging another girl, after3 years she
just hung up the phone. Moved on. Murder wasn’t necessary. The problem
was Travis ever engaging with an unstable personality, and as Blink pointed out
reflects a lot on his upbringing.
also, in my opinion if it wasn’t Travis, it would’ve been another man.
Might’ve easily been within marriage when she got angry.
Then she could’ve claimed domestic violence more successfully.
Mom3.0 and y’all…
I haven’t plugged in for lack of anything signiffy to offer…..BUT…I’m sure encouraged by the power, knowledge and strong, professional opinions within the posts. I sincerely hope both pros and def are reading here. They would be reading with egos deflating and tails between their legs. It’s shameful they cannot put their personal feelings aside and focus on what is right in front of them. I don’t believe any tricks are required to put this killer behind bars.
One of my fave quotes ….. “The truth is like a lion; you don’t have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself.” – St. Augustine. The link below gives a GREAT analogy of this quote. No tricks or deceit required! So why the second guessing of your experience and lack of faith in the evidence, Mr. Martinez?
http://www.raystedman.org/new-testament/timothy/how-to-defend-a-lion
-Let every heart prepare Him room- xo
Love that FriendLY
B
@Ragdoll. do you bring back memories with the Stedman link.
The Calif Jesus Movement pastor at PBC
responsible for the 60s OK to wear jeans to church.
Back at ya http://www.raystedman.org/about-ray-stedman/passing-the-torch
In the 60s Stedman was a beautiful expository writer, & Ron Ritchie (mentioned
in the link) who resided in my town was a mentor to high schoolers.
I outgrew the subculture but not the beliefs.
I found it fascinating when I read a couple years ago he retired to
Grants Pass OR, was in & around Medford, & probably rubbed shoulders
with some Kyron case figures (Porter iirc).
william writes:
He might just as well have conducted public instructional classes on how to get ones self murdered in a relationship for all the hypocrisies this man displayed.
———-
According ti the statement you make many of our politicians, clergy, and social leaders are courting death.
What i like most about this site is that facts are presented with references that corroborate, and opinions are predicated on background of expertise or similar experience, and stated as opinions.
It concerns me on a personal level that moral judgments of a homicide victim’s alleged and unproven behavior alleviate and mitigate a sentence. That is one of the reasons that I watch this trial.
I see our culture as a whole dealing with new platforms of media that hev brought this trial into world view, and put all of us in a position of being a juror, even hough we are not among the twelve who will decide the fate of a confessed murderer.
What i like most about this site is that facts are presented with references that corroborate, and opinions are predicated on background of expertise or similar experience, and stated as opinions. There are very few ” flares” of a mob mentality that shows ” confirmation bias”- that act of forming an opinion not predicated on fact FIRST, and then seeking to confirm it when looking at evidence.
Regardless of what was presented as Travis Alexander’s immorality, the jury found her guilty to pre mediated murder. That verdict may be affected by the current exploration into the computer evidence, and it may not.
I think the most positive thing that has come out of this trial is that hopefully, people in a relationship that is problematic will spend their energy on freeing themselves, move on,instead of exacting revenge.
Here is the latest filing DEFENDANT’S
SUPPLEMENTAL;MOTION
TO DISMISS ALL CHARGES WITH PREJUDICE
AND/OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE
TO DISMISS THE STATE’S
NOTICE OF INTENT TO
SEEK THE DEATH PENALTY
DUE TO RECENTLY
DISCOVERED PURPOSEFUL
AND EGREGIOUS PROSECUTORIAL
MISCONDUCT
http://thetrialdiaries.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/58979601tau0p2r3usdlzahhlins1eia.pdf
—-
Also it has been tweeted :
Just in: COA ruling on #JodiArias testimony “if Arias began to testify in a closed proceeding, those transcripts shall be unsealed.” #abc15
—
Dr Geffner testified yesterday continues today- so far the defense seems to still be going with PTSD finding and not BPD— The testimony isnt too indepth yet…so Ill try to keep Yall updated-
But so far- it seems lacking…JMO
Ragdoll- great post-
I hope it all turns out to be a misunderstanding- and the truth was never obscured…
Here is the appeal memo:
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2013/03/14/07-99001%20web%20-%20corrected.pdf
Like I said, looks like this case is going to get a review from the State Atty and likely the DOJ. Nearly identical issues- if the defense does not have them already, I submit they will also be reviewing the personnel files of those who testified in this case. Two of which could be impeached by a drinking straw wrapper at this point.
B
Geffner referring to ” Wheel of Power and Control” in court today.
There is ongoing debate about the duluth model of testing. This is a link to a VERY long article about it. pros and cons:
http://www.theduluthmodel.org/pdf/theoretical%20and%20research%20support.pdf
cutting to the chase, here is a snip:
The Duluth Model can be characterized as a gender-based cognitive-behavioral approach to counseling and/or educating men arrested for domestic violence and mandated by the courts to domestic violence programs. The curriculum first helps expose the behaviors associated with a constellation of abuse and violence in what is referred to as the “Power and Control Wheel.”
RE whodunnit says:
December 11, 2014 at 10:02 pm
question
are there any other death penalty cases in which computers were integral to the investigation?
I ask this because it occurs to me that even just 6 years ago, the regard in which personal computers were held, and the potency of their value for investigative purposes, has changed radically – and we are truly in a new day.Is lack of experience, lack of expertise the same thing as misconduct? I am not trying to provoke, I am really wondering.
Six years ago, computer forensics simply couldn’t be as developed as it is NOW,because it is a new playing field technologically. It was pointed out today that protocol for handling computers was updated as of 2013.
But like the way that blood evidence was once identified only by type, but now can be identified by dna, It is absolutely valid to re examine the computer situation, the protocol, the contents.
also wondering if it was Arias who found porn on Travis computer during her hacking expeditions, and if she fabricated the masturbation story to get the info out there, without having to say that she had gotten into his computer without his knowledge.
—
Who,
I apologize yr post got lost in all my ponderings- yr questions are sound
I am sure there are other death penalty cases where computers played an integral part…
One I followed was Casey Anthony
I disagree that the potency of PC value for investigative purposes, has changed radically even in the last six years-
The value as potential evidence has always been important- although I do agree that lack of experience, lack of expertise has been an obstacle in some earlier cases as well as the lack of thoroughly deconstructing all evidence all search engines etc.
This oversight came back to haunt the prosecution in the Anthony case..
You asked:
Is lack of experience, lack of expertise the same thing as misconduct? I am not trying to provoke, I am really wondering.
—
Well Id have to say that yes it can be – it seems it might be for this case. And IMO having a written Protocol even an updated one does not refute a total disregard for commonsense for preservation of evidence – nor does it negate common sense safeguards which anyone not just an expert should understand and utilize-
One need not be a full blown expert to know that dropping a camera may break it- and one need not be an expert to realize that to attempt to alter evidence even that evidence which is already been admitted is a big no no-
One need not be an “expert” to realize that a certain “card” even if found “in the area” of a memory stick compartment- may not “fit ” the camera”
One need not be an expert to know that having 2 evidence collectors state there was at least one other “card” in the washer may put the thought to be cameras “card” in doubt… Handle with care moving forward… common sense
Melendez need not be a competent expert to realize that narrowing his examination of the computer using only his “preference” of tools/etc has the very real effect of narrowing the findings.
Florez need not be an expert in computers to realize that his NOT immediately calling forensics to have actual experts advise him may have an adverse effect on his decision to handle evidence at scene w/out their expertize///
Common sense should have told him bringing the computer out of sleep mode has real potential for ruining evidence-
Smith a “real” expert testified in all his time he had only did so once at the crime scene-
Florez need not be an expert to know that wOut a writeblocker pluggiing in turning on and allowing the defense to rifle thru the pcs would result in damage- he said as much but allowed it anyway- further damaging evidence
Florez need not be an expert in video cameras to realize that to allow Melendez to force open and extract tape would result in irreparable damage to the camera and to the tape-
Who you wrote:
But like the way that blood evidence was once identified only by type, but now can be identified by dna, It is absolutely valid to re examine the computer situation, the protocol, the contents.
YES Who you are correct but
In those older cases with blood evidence or computer evidence – all evidence was turned over to both sides during discovery-
all evidence is preserved/kept/safeguarded- all testing practices and safeguards etc were utilized and noted-
not disregarded- not damaged not withheld
that way many years later- it can ALL again be revisited retested-
- Defense in this case- (it seems) was denied discovery etc
Prosecution it seems in this case lied outright about PC evidence no porn no viruses-
Can a lab years from now go back and lookat the blood evidence? those cameras those cards those pcs those phones those pics and either authenticate or prove false the prosecutions findings or possibly build upon them with newer better more advanced testing?
It seems not and it appears that is because of LEs mishandling and or disregard for evidence protection -and prosecutorial misconduct
So for me right now- it seems it not so much a question of newer more advanced protocols lack of experience, lack of expertise but more a question of misconduct
AJMo Peace
There are multiple failings across multiple disciplines from evidence collection practice, interpretation, use as an interviewing tool, withholding and again, as a “fact of evidence” that it qualifies for use in the first place to name a few.
I can’t even believe we are discussing this in this way when it was flagrantly obvious to me that this was the case months ago at trial. I can recall getting antsy with a BOC editor that I was adamant that my findings would absolutely show that what was presented at trial was impossible and did not match protocol, reporting, or submission standards I was so incensed ( she was doing her job correctly, she got there but not without demanding I prove out the theory at every turn). This is misconduct, pure and simple and if Stephens does not want the DOJ up her robe she had better rule accordingly.
It truly pains me to say this- but I absolutely believe Martinez tossed that camera into the podium willfully. As I recall, Melendez led some of his SIM testimony that he put the card into a system that did not have a write blocker and it did not work, or vice versa- but these idiots knew. I get to say idiots because at this point they are making good investigators look bad. WTH?
B
Thank you, dear FriendLY xo
Rose, I absolutely agree with you….if it wasn’t Travis, well, it would have been some one else who rejected her/ betrayed her by moving on with another woman. Personally, I believe that’s what really set her off. She was easily and quickly replaced…..and going on HER trip. JMHO
I sure do wish you all a very Merry Christmas! I pray the true Spirit of the season is with you and your families. God bless y’all dear friendlies and friendLY xo xo xo
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/16/jodi-arias-sentencing/20470471/
What about the defense’s misconducts? Does this not weigh in….and even if they did, is it going to keep killer locked up or set free? Regardless of misconducts, a verdict needs to stick. Was Debra Milke found not guilty? Milke should have been retried, with new prosecution. Misconduct should not mean freedom unless the hidden evidence PROVED she did not kill or conspire to kill her son. Again, that needs to be determined in a court of law. How can this process be completely side stepped? I could be wrong ,but I don’t recall learning this evidence exonerated Milke, completely.
……and has it been clearly proven WHO deleted files from Travis’ computer, yet? I guess a google search is needed on my part.
That is all :p. AJMHO
Yes- it has. The files were deleted on 2 occasions, one allegedly at the residence by Smith and again while the computer was in custody of the State, being reviewed by the State. However, the State never told the defense that they had a master file anyway so honestly, that just makes the states actions look willful all the more, to be honest.
There is no evidence against Milke outside of an alleged unrecorded confession from a cop with years of allegations of lying and misconduct- which the prosecution withheld in discovery. The prosecution is seeking an appeal but it is all for not- the ruling is prejudiced. Nobody is overturning that, imo, especially when the only witness intends to plead the 5th and neither convicted person will testify against Milke even if it would reduce their sentence.
I don’t know if Milke is guilty- but I do know that no person should ever spend 26 years in prison when their is fabricated evidence or none at all.
I respectfully disagree that misconduct has to bear the burden of proof- that is what the intention and burden of the State is to begin with. If they cannot sustain that within the limitations of due process they cannot make shit up.
There is a presumption of innocence in our country and I strongly support it.
The reality is if I am to compare this case with the Anthony case as a general response – I will say this. In BOTH cases the prosecution did not evaluate the strength of it’s evidence under the clear and convincing standard ( dont go there on Brady but yes, that too) and one lost it’s case as a result and the other is about to get overturned or will eventually, imo.
So for me, I want to know what gets heads out of asses already.
I am intentionally biting my bottom lip because I have a much more colorful and inflammatory supplement to this response because once again, there is no doubt in my mind that both these defendants are guilty of killing another under the law. That law I am speaking of applies to all of us- including prosecutors and LE. Thanks for letting me rant on the bottom of my response to you FriendLY
B
- snipped
A pending defense motion asks the judge to take the death penalty off the table on grounds that police detectives deleted pornography files from Alexander’s computer. The prosecution denies police did that.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/16/jodi-arias_n_6332664.html
What is the problem, here? Is Martinez completely daft, not to take the death penalty off the table? Would this not keep her behind bars, or am I misunderstanding due process? I understand his commitment to the Alexander family and God knows how I feel for them. I don’t mean to be insensitive. At some point, keeping her off the streets should be the focus. I wish the Alexander’s could see how much is at risk if they keep pushing for DP. Again, jumbo.
PS….sorry about previous posts. iPad issues… I hate it.
In a word- hubris. He is never admitting a wrong, and it is not his decision. His decision was made several times over when, imo, he bet the farm none of it would come out. He should be relieved of his charge, imo.
B
Ragdoll says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 16, 2014 at 2:29 pm
B, after reading other posts and your response to Mom’s post, please feel free not to post this particular one. It’s redundant. So sorry for inconveniencing y’all. Either way, I trust your judgement.
Sorry, just posted with my response and I wanted to personally, it’s up.
B
TY for all your hard work 3.0, & WDIt as well.
Computer evidence, and camera evidence, imo is
neither integral nor necessary to this conviction.
A red herring.
But, having seized said computer, camera, & video,
the 2 issues are a LEA handling it as forensic evidence
with integrity according to their own agency policy. That is not esoteric
nor difficult; and, secondly, testifying truthfully about said evidence.
Rose their is a picture of him in succession of being murdered- I am hard pressed to think of another similar case outside of one of those FB idiots and even then- the digitals in this case in the converse would have sealed her intention as to why she was there and what ensued- they just had no clue wtf they were doing and frankly how to properly use their tools and analysis.
B
Rose, I never heard of Ray Stedman, but sure did enjoy his devotional (link). I’ve book marked his site. Thanks for the background. It makes him very endearing, indeed!
Thanks B, for responses. It’s all good…and hubris. That is becoming a new word in my vocab, thanks to you
How unfortunate that it only serves one purpose….his own. Thank you for clarifying the proof a out evidence. I googled but I still appreciate your hard work and commitment. You’re a prophet in the world of judicial misconduct, FriendLY. You really have been knocking your predictions (based on thorough research and study in your field) out of the park. Rant on…I share your sentiment. If you’ve said it once…… xo
Mom3.0….you humble me, as always. Simple google was aIl. I found a link which contains on the recent docs from the trial. Hope y ‘all find it handy, if you’re not familiar to it already.
http://www.courtchatter.com/p/jodi-arias-court-docs.html
Now, back to reading your posts. These are gems, blinkers xo
Last post….promise.
http://www.courtchatter.com/2014/12/jodi-arias-defense-files-another-motion.html
- snipped from pg.3
“Thus, the state at the time they were making allegations against Mr. Nuemiester, knew that they were false”
Unlike Milke’s case, I can’t foresee JA getting her case dismissed with prejudiced. The alternative…..maybe. Then again, Casey Anthony is living la vita belle, after all. I won’t bet on the outcome.
No chance her case will be dismissed with prejudice and I would point out this was a result of a habeas petition, heard in 2013. The 9th circuit had no choice because they knew there was no actual evidence against this woman and what they claimed was evidence ( imaginary confession without any corroboration) was the subject of the misconduct so that was never coming in anyway.
What truly cheeses my grits on Arias case is that from what I can tell- all of this nonsense was a complete waste of time had the forensics been analyzed properly- it would have made their case bulletproof. This misconduct on top of extremely poor practices in forensics across the board are going to make this a defensible case. I know people act like that is a dirty word- but I promise you, verdicts that stick come from those. Reasonable doubt can be found under a chair in this case as it is.
B
I know this is kind of keeping my head in the sand, but I am still ” watching” the penalty phase trial- albeit via twitter.
Thanks to the posters who have informed and educated me- it’s a sorry bet to make that you, Blink, are correct in believing this case is going to disintegrate based on improper gathering of evidence. And yes its a shame because with a confession of guilt and all the forensic evidence waiting there, whispering AND yelling to be regarded properly,hubris has reared it’s head, roared it’s head- as we saw in The OJ Simpson Trial, Casey Anthony and … this one.
HAVING SAID THAT
I know this is kind of keeping my head in the sand, but I am still ” watching” the penalty phase trial- albeit via twitter.
And with the reports of the twitter reports of Geffner’s testimony, I keep looking at it not as mitigation, but as the elements that all have gone into Arias becoming a criminal.
In the guilt phase, there was emphasis put on the concept that this behavior was out of the ordinary and the ” snap” passionate response to an emotionally abusive relationship. But in the pen=alty faphase, apparently gaffer is saying that all these horrendous experiences of being exposed to an abusive family, held at knife point,abused by Juarez, and then Travis- to me, it just supports the idea that this woman was forming a criminal mindset from a very young age, and was a walking time bomb that attached herself to Travis, compelled by her past to correct those past injustices by making him bear the responsibility for ALL of her past, ALL of her ( as tested ) repressed hostilities.
The accusations about Pedophilia have been couched in allegations that Travis was abused as a child, and was repeating what he had experienced. If Arias was abused as a child/teen, why then wouldn’t it hold that she was acting out her own psycho dramas on Travis as ultimate victim?
As I understand it ( and appeal to posters who have psychology as an area of expertise), people will go into the same problems areas again and again until they are resolved. The defense is saying that Arias was compelled to stay attached to Travis because of her own psychological make up that was triggered by Travis…… but seriously, it wasn’t Travis who shot and stabbed Arias, and isn’t that the bottom line ( inevitable mistrial aside)
Arias is a sociopath, and has every marker down the list for that diagnosis that I am aware of with the possible exception that her conduct disorder phasing was not noticed until after the age of 15. I don’t believe someone in her situation is capable of self-report for any of the standard Axis’s to apply, imo.
If the conversation starts with – Oh, I need to see a psych professional to assess whether or not I should live – I tend to be skeptical. I trust verifiable history.
B
sorry for all my typos, my computer spell check has a mind of its own. But I know you get the drift- will type slowly the next time around, please pardon me!
@Blink, while that is true, with pics nailing the coffin, in the pre-digital
pic era, she’d have been convicted without those pics–fingerprints at the
scene, motive, & so on. This case is an example of keep it simple & convict
to me.
wrt “. The defense is saying that Arias was compelled to stay attached to Travis because of her own psychological make up that was triggered by Travis……”
Imo crap. The majority of children who experience severe childhood trauma go on imo
to fit and adjust within social conventions & the rule of law.
And, if their troubles (ie sexual or physical abuse, family violence, extreme poverty) follow them,
most reap the diagnosis of Adjustment Reaction rather than shooting & butchering lovers.
She cannot repeat such an antisocial act in prison, so imo if Marrinez were a responsible prosecutor
acting within his State job description, he’d have left this at lwop long ago.
Here’s a question for y’all (snipped from the link below). Not sure if this case if familiar with any of you, but in Canada….it was a heavy presence felt from one coast to the other.
Anyhooooo…..
-snipped
“Is a personality disorder a disease of the mind as a matter of the law?”
http://globalnews.ca/news/1731759/jurors-at-magnotta-trial-enter-2nd-day-of-deliberations/
IMHO, this is such a grey area with asymmetrical boundaries. There needs to be a clear protocol in place for such cases….where the bottom line is….the public is safe and the defendant is either being treated or institutionalized for life. Again, MHO.
In US law- ( I mention because I am unfamiliar with the contrast to law in Canada) there is. What I want to point out is that the defendant in that case had paranoid schizophrania- which he was diagnosed with years earlier. I am familiar at length with criminal cases where this was the diagnosis and while it is clearly a mental defect and I would argue renders a defendant with a mental defect without the ability to form a mens rea and therefore actus reas- it is an absolute defense. That is NOT a given- there are very specific diagnostic requirements that must match the evidence in the crime and defendant, etc.
HOWEVER. When discussing whether or not a personality disorder on it’s own, as an example any of the cluster B as categorized in the DSM V- an individual CANNOT be diagnosed with them if the behavior leading to the diagnosis occurs when one is schizophranic or psychotic. In other words, it would mean the jury would be responsible for deciding the possible separation of a clinical diagnosis they would be wholly unqualified to make so that specific issue would be addressed before the courts (likely in hearing outside of the jury) and stipulations as to the judge’s instruction. In effect- it must be underscored that jurors are NEVER to be considered “experts” under the law. For that, we apply the reasonable man- not expert test.
As y’all know- I have never been comfortable that JA’s youth history has been properly researched and corroborated through collaterall sources and interviews but if it had, I strongly believe she suffers from antisocial personality disorder- specifically sociopathic designation. In my view, and I just presented a guest lecture contrasting ASPD with concentrations on psychopath and sociopath with Bernard Madoff and Casey Anthony as my subjects. Outside of the fact that she never had a child- Arias and Anthony are so startlingly similar it is shocking. Where the major difference bends in the road here is obviously with the heinous and brutal murder of Travis. I have always said that one of the scenarios is true- Travis was murdered by a paranoid schizo ( trust me, I have seen enough of these crime scenes to see many markers) or there was a violent confrontation between 2 people that fought to the death.
In my work, there have been times where I have had to say- I may never know exactly what happened. I may never be able to do more than use my evidence and knowledge to provide a most plausible scenario. I don’t believe that had to be the answer in this case and would not have – had it been investigated correctly.
B
rose writes:
if Marrinez were a responsible prosecutor
acting within his State job description, he’d have left this at lwop long ago.
——
At this point I amy be acting like Pollyanna, but I still don’t believe that Martinez is a dog on a bone about the death penalty per se, I believe that the family and law itself are dictating his path of pursuing death penalty. The question is, and always has been :can he get there from here.
The fact that Defense has put forth in every motion that alternative of just lifting death penalty illustrates, to me at least, that the defense would be against the death penalty in any case, every case, as a philosophical position. The defense is well aware that executions have been put on hold pending an investigation into the drugs used to exact the death penalty- This was information that was disseminated on Nov 26, 2014. It MAY well come to pass that Arizona may abolish the death penalty, like other states have done
here is brief link:
http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2014/11/26/arizona-death-penalty-put-on-hold-pending-investigation-of-botched-execution/
more info on arizona executions being put on hold:
http://tucson.com/news/local/crime/lawsuit-over-arizona-s-execution-secrecy-on-hold/article_bf18e360-74d9-11e4-93db-87606c11a6cb.html
@Who. I have not followed Martinez closely enough to form an opinion on his litigation choices.
wrt ” I believe that the family and law itself are dictating his path of pursuing death penalty.”
I defer to yr always reasoned opinions. In terms of this grieved family, imo they
have needed structure & direction during this trial which they have not received.
In terms of the law itself, imo prosecutors choose the laws they
will apply in the course of charges & trial. The crime itself dictates much of that.
But if the penalty or sanction sought post-conviction and recommended to the Judge
or jury is not in a prosecutor’s hands, in whose hands is it.
Imo it is the job of any defense atty in a
capital case to always fight the DP,
philosophical beliefs aside.
What do you think of today’s Geffner?
rose writes
But if the penalty or sanction sought post-conviction and recommended to the Judge
or jury is not in a prosecutor’s hands, in whose hands is it.
Imo it is the job of any defense atty in a
capital case to always fight the DP,
philosophical beliefs aside.
What do you think of today’s Geffner?
———-
Agreed on all points. I guess I am feasting on the concept that Defense outs forth serious motions, but at the sam-me time implies that if the death penalty off the slate, nevermind about the other stuff. They have sated n more than once ‘ as an alternative” to take away DP.
as far as gaffer:
hard to make a judgement call on what impact he is making on the jury, and the twitter accounts I read seem to be definitely biased, – so there are already certain levels of interpretation to go through when you just get the posts from court side.
From what I gleaned today, Geffner is taking phrases and then immediately saying- here this means this and this means that. This builds up a lot for the State to rebut, and who knows how bored the jury is by now, and how much they can retain as important.
I will never get over this analysis of Travis behavior when there is really no one that can testify to what he really meant, when at the same time, Defense has experts who can clarify same for Arias.
In light of the leaked emails from Sony, where interoffice emails are really damning to the character of the execs that have written them, we are seeing immediate apologies and explanations and acts of contrition. But Travis can’t do any of that. One thing is absolutely certain- we have NO WAY of knowing if Travis ever intended for his every text to be picked apart and analyzed.
If Travis was such a secretive person, and was so secretive about his relationship with Arias, it really stands to reason that he would never have left a trail of his discontent. I honestly think that what he says in texts and emails speaks more to his own naiveté, in keeping with a man who was a novice sexually, and inexperienced in handling problematic women. The defense constantly refers to his moral struggle, and in that context, his emails reflect that – MUCH more than the wheel of power thing that Geffner is using.
That particular assessment tool ( wheel of control and abuse or whatever its called) is created and used for men who have been charged with or even convicted of domestic violence-( I posted that link earlier)
So to my mind, placing a dead man on that scale- a person who was never charged with a thing, no proof of a thing except writing words that show an immorality out of context, who has no way to explain anything from his point of view, no way to say ” hey that was in response to THIS”- its junk in junk out.
I hope the sidebars towards the end today, and Stephens calling gaffer, nurmi and martinez in had to
do with foundation. The simplest answer for all of his testimony about Carl, Matt Daryll etc is that when fighting the death penalty ANY evidence is permitted for mitigation. It looks like a throw it all against the wall style of defense, create a pervasive atmosphere of contempt for the victim, and the murderer looks better by comparison.. or something. To me,Geffner’s testimony, as per the tweets, still hasn’t mitigated the murder in the way it was committed, but I know more than the jury does and I don’t have the pressure to decide anything.
I believe that Arias is guilty of premeditated murder ( which by legal definition can occur in a moment, as long as you know your actions will kill), and because of personal beliefs against death penalty, i think LWOP with no chance of pardon is appropriate. But in light of whats going on in the entire scope of the case have to agree with Blink that chances are gutting slimmer by the minute that stabbing a person 27 times, shooting them, attempting to obstruct justice by cleaning up crime scene ( in part) lying for years, will be met with direct eye for an eye type justice.
@Who “junk in, junk out” sounds like a
pretty good summary for Def
psychological mitigation witnesses.
Thank you Blink, I do believe you are referring to Luke Magnotta, when you say defendant in this case.
He may have had schizo, BUT, he did flee to Paris and Berlin. I personally believe he knew right from wrong enough to run after the murder. I can’t get past that and as a juror, that would weigh on me heavily. He was also caught on an Internet cafe, reading up on his notoriety, In the media. He also has a colorful criminal history, including fraud, theft
I’m not sure the diagnosis is correct and as we know, this is not uncommon in the world of psychology, psychiatry and criminal minds. Psychopath for sure….. This is interesting..
-snipped
The Crown argued it was important to watch because during the audition Magnotta does not appear to show disorganized thought or behaviour. It was filmed at the same time he was complaining to psychiatrists about hallucinations and other symptoms of schizophrenia.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/luka-magnotta-trial-what-the-jury-didn-t-see-or-hear-1.2874042
Anyway, agree with Arias and Anthony being too similar…and eerily enough, being interrogated in a room on the same day, month and year. You mention you’re not comfortable that Arias’ youth was not properly researched or corroborate. The same could be said for Anthony, too, IMHO.
Thank you for weighing in….. So many variables to these cases, which you highlight so easily, which makes it far more complex for us process without (speaking on my behalf only) over thinking. Lack of training and knowledge is a problem, too. LOL. Really digging the posts, and responses.
Would LOVE to see a live Blink lecture.
Ragdoll- I was referring simply to what I took at face value- that there had been a finding of para schizo and an ensuing jury issue as to how to apply or reject further personality disorder. Your last link tells me that clearly is an issue before the jury- AND… brings me to another difference in the US/Crown’s justice system with just my brief read. This was a mental defense. The US has very specific criteria it must meet before a defense can be mounted for a similar crime here.
B
PS….you are confident that Arias is a sociopath. You also once say you were troubled with the BPD, because of the suicide characteristic. IIRC, you felt she showed a narcissistic disorder (which I also believe Anthony posseses).
Still feel the same….if you’re up to answering?
Yes. I do. It is also common for a multiple diagnosis or for similar traits of multiple cluster B to present as a tendency. Meaning- it may not be present always as an influence to the chief diagnosis- Then there is the whole “spectral” conversation.
B
It occurs to me you could in one fell swoop you could do away with this interpretation of the diary- that Arias only wrote in keeping with laws of attraction- as being a document that is evidence of her obsession with Travis There is very little about anything else other than Travis!
It may be simplistic of me to state this, but IMO, This is a diary of a murderer, a diary that is the accounting of her daily obsession with Travis Alexander. The texts are a document of contact between a woman obsessed ( shown by dairies) and the object of her obsession,
Her obsession led to murder.
Further, if we are to believe that the laws of attraction prevented her from writing about physical abuse, why would she be applying those same laws of attractions rules to the good stuff, his wanting to marry her etc.
typo, as usual for me-
in previous post meant to say ” why WOULDN’T she be applying the same laws of attraction rules to the good stuff ( she writes in her diaries ), like that Travis loves her, asked her to marry him etc .”
Re Blinks response:
Mom3.0 says:
December 16, 2014 at 1:43 pm
There are multiple failings across multiple disciplines from evidence collection practice, interpretation, use as an interviewing tool, withholding and again, as a “fact of evidence” that it qualifies for use in the first place to name a few.
– I totally agree Blink- For instance why werent the original untouched pics entered into evidence-? why didnt the defense(although I think we Know) argue to have the manipulated questionable evidence pics thrown out? Also why was the banister wet- why wasnt all the blood evidence collected typed- etc? why did neither side call the roommates- the friends who found TA?
Why didnt the defense argue that they “focused” on Arias and Arias ALONE from the get go- potentially cutting off other reasonable avenues for investigation?
Keeping in mind Arias at least once if not several times hinted to “meeting up” w/unknown party- unknown party may have helped her rent car- get rid of evidence and may have helped in killing… the blood evidence could have told the story as well as who knows how many other bits of info that wasnt pursued tested collected dropped or obscured -never given over during discovery?
You wrote:
I can’t even believe we are discussing this in this way when it was flagrantly obvious to me that this was the case months ago at trial. I can recall getting antsy with a BOC editor that I was adamant that my findings would absolutely show that what was presented at trial was impossible and did not match protocol, reporting, or submission standards I was so incensed ( she was doing her job correctly, she got there but not without demanding I prove out the theory at every turn). This is misconduct, pure and simple and if Stephens does not want the DOJ up her robe she had better rule accordingly.
–
Blink I read each of yr pieces I thought I “got it” at the time- but I admit I missed just how much questionable police and Prosecutorial actions and inactions there were. In re-reading yr pieces-(i suggest a must for all) it becomes OVERLY apparent just how much you had right- JMO
Blink, Nobody wants to jump on a band wagon of corruption- misconduct- etc-s– but honestly A review of yr articles the trial, plus a review of The National Registry of Exonerations has me wondering just how prevalent a problem it is-
and believe it or not it has me rethinking my whole stance on Terri Horman and her insistence on remaining silent- even as her child was missing- And that scares me Blink because GOd forbid any of us find ourselves in such a predicament- will our fear and knowledge of these cases prevent us from willing talking with LE to help our child or someoneelses if our lawyers(if we are lucky enough to have rep) advise us to remain silent? I know now that I can never fault someone for doing so- –
You wrote
It truly pains me to say this- but I absolutely believe Martinez tossed that camera into the podium willfully. As I recall, Melendez led some of his SIM testimony that he put the card into a system that did not have a write blocker and it did not work, or vice versa- but these idiots knew. I get to say idiots because at this point they are making good investigators look bad. WTH?
—–
Yes Blink- I really think you are right- you speak often of Martinez’ hubris and his inability to admit any wrong…Arizona best take “the prosecutor” in hand because if not now -then when will it end? he may end up embroiled in a case such as these (below) which had me asking Did Blink write these- did she know the judge-: ?
http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=4270
snipped
In reversing the conviction, the appeals court noted that the “entire case” against Baker turned upon Ramirez’s credibility and accused the prosecution of playing “a game of hide and seek.”
……“The state attempted to keep relevant information from (Baker) through the use of semantics or a play on words,” the court said. “The evidence that the state failed to disclose went directly to Ramirez’s bias, credibility and motivation for testifying.”
and
http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=4551
snipped:()by me
The judge held that Carbone (the prosecutor)was “repeatedly dishonest with the court in an attempt to conceal his misconduct.”….
…. “The prosecutor engaged in a pattern of pervasive misconduct throughout the proceedings, culminating in the improper meeting.” The court held that even after J.L. admitted he and Carbone watched the hockey game and discussed the questions that would be asked, Carbone “continued to deny any wrongdoing. The prosecutor’s disingenuous responses served only to exacerbate the misconduct.”
– Again I agree with u Blink :
these idiots knew. I get to say idiots because at this point they are making good investigators look bad. WTH?
AJMO Peace
re blinks response in part
to Ragdoll says:
December 17, 2014 at 1:30 pm
respectfully snipped:
As y’all know- I have never been comfortable that JA’s youth history has been properly researched and corroborated through collaterall sources and interviews but if it had, I strongly believe she suffers from antisocial personality disorder- specifically sociopathic designation. In my view, and I just presented a guest lecture contrasting ASPD with concentrations on psychopath and sociopath with Bernard Madoff and Casey Anthony as my subjects. Outside of the fact that she never had a child- Arias and Anthony are so startlingly similar it is shocking. Where the major difference bends in the road here is obviously with the heinous and brutal murder of Travis. I have always said that one of the scenarios is true- Travis was murdered by a paranoid schizo ( trust me, I have seen enough of these crime scenes to see many markers) or there was a violent confrontation between 2 people that fought to the death.
In my work, there have been times where I have had to say- I may never know exactly what happened. I may never be able to do more than use my evidence and knowledge to provide a most plausible scenario. I don’t believe that had to be the answer in this case and would not have – had it been investigated correctly.
B
—
Blink I am again agreeing w/you-
I see the similarities w/CA and I agree noone is really giving us an indepth analysis of JAs youth history-
I think there is another big difference- people felt sorry for CA- her counsel at least the( “old codger”) w/the most experience liked her- he went to bat for her- and went over and beyond for her
what you said once long ago about noone really “liking” Arias is true- noone feels much if any sympathy for her
Noone cares to follow-up on any concerns over selfdefense or even a mutual brutal attack- most disregard TAs horrendous treatment of JA and really ladies in general- most disregard his sex life his vices – they continue to see him as almost virginlike a newbie- when clearly he was not. if truthful most of us even though we are TAs “side” would never want TA to be our own daughters choice- none of us would be ok w/his treating our daughters the way he treated Deanna nor JA …
The defense may be doing their best but the fact that her counsel seems to hate her it has to effect their ability to really “fight for her”
What I mean is they are failing to humanize her…they are not portraying her in a sympathetic light-
IMO if you read JAs lifestory compared to CAs life story who should be the most sympathetic character via youth history- job history, relationship history?
JA is after all a girl who was essentially given away by her family at the age of 15- they didnt fight to get her back they didnt enlist LEs help to remove her from an OBVIOUSLY bad situation-
The guy was 19 the guy was abusive and even though she was acting grown up and even though she was playing house – She was 15 years old- She was in essence at his mercy-
He was her lover her mentor her role model her landlord her keeper
For anyone with a daughter- even one that is combative-or what have you- could you as her parent just let her go without any safety net without calling for LEs help or a family counselors help Something anything?
People wonder why she had a pathological aversion to abandonment ? Why she was so reluctant to end relationships with Travis or others w/out a “new safety net” Well Duh- her family abandoned her and her first Boyfriend she had to stay -she had to make it work for as long as possible
what was her other choice? to return to those who didnt seem to care where she was what she ate- that she went to school that she was “safe”-
as a teen to admit defeat to return to a home that wasnt “there” – I ask even in the best of circumstances- what teen will be contrite- will admit their failures what teen would react in that way- make the first step- give up the “grown-up” world free of constraints even if it is hell- especially if they know it will be “held against” them?
We all know from our own experiences that it is easy to lose yrself in yr first few “loves” to mold yrself after them…
For JA with her age with her MH problems with her family I think it was even harder not to “become” essentially she was raised in her most formative years by a dark and brooding wannabe vampire killer- who enjoyed being the be all end all for a 15yrold girl
Her first relationship defined her in every regard-
You wrote:
In my work, there have been times where I have had to say- I may never know exactly what happened. I may never be able to do more than use my evidence and knowledge to provide a most plausible scenario. I don’t believe that had to be the answer in this case and would not have – had it been investigated correctly.
B
I Get it Blink- and I find yr possible scenarios more plausible and for the life of me if TRUTH and justice is supposed to be what we ALL seek -why didnt they investigate collect-safeguard ETC ETC
if they had we would ALL know the undeniable truth-
as it is now we have a woman who admitted to killing him but is at risk of walking because of all the rest
PS I would have liked to hear your lecture Blink- I bet it was great.
AJMO Peace
Thank you and kindly Mom 3.0
B
Got it…and did some googlin to learn more about cluster b personalities. Dr. Caroline Leaf is a neuroscientist (and Christian). She’s opened my world to understanding the brain…and that without the mind, it’s essential useless. I highly recommend her books and viewing her interviews. She’s covered a wide range of issues concerning the brain, injury, mental disorders, etc.
http://drleaf.com/
If the neuroscientific interest is your thing- ( in terms of research- or in this case a great blend of psych and biopsych, really) I recommend James Fallon.
B
When she calls me Ragdoll, I liken that to my momma calling by my first, middle and last name…LOL
Blinkster, I wasn’t trying to provoke you nor disrespect your experience and knowledge. My apologies if it came across as though I was challenging you. If anything, I’m in awe of your growth and progress since I came to BOC (little Caylee). As a result, the posts on BOC have become more detailed oriented, focused…. I see Mom, Rose, Who….et al, have become more educated and refined in their knowledge of the system, the cases themselves, the processes…. It’s been really cool to witness the cultivation of great minds on BOC.
I know I am way out of my league and perhaps don’t have much of a right to be posting, but I feel humbled y’all humour me…and respond to my posts from time to time. The victims and their loved ones comes first. That’s the most important aspect of this site.
Merry CHRISTmas and the peace of the Spirit be with you all, throughout the season and the New Year. Salvation is born!
FriendLY- I adore you as you better know- I respect you and love your faith and contributions here. You did nothing whatsoever to offend me or my knowledge/training in any way and I understood your query to be an excellent one of a fairly complex legal/psychological issue. Personally, I wish I had more time to research cases of interest than I do and I love that you brought that to BOC’s attention.
B
@Ragdoll. You are right, we are all works in progress constantly
on the upward way.
If one doesn’t get a paranoid schiz speaking on their specific delusions,
they can present well if not too chronic. Many are quite secretive & do not easily
divulge the voices (hallucinations) or delusions. Maybe concommitant personality
disorders are real but in my day treating the schizophrenia was challenging enough
standing alone & imo suffices to explain murderous behaviors (ie like Hinkley).
That is, why get to the PD before treating the PS?
From the court of appeals opinion, the defense can use anything presented in the guilt phase of the trial to serve as mitigation, if I understand it correctly.
see paragragh 16 in this document posted on court chatter:
http://www.courtchatter.com/2014/12/jodi-arias-court-of-appeals-opinion.html
ugh. That could extend this even more, right?
Blink- PLEASE if you consider it innapropriate to offer a link from court chatter, I won’t be offended if you don’t post this.
That was always true who- I am unsure of your question. In case the issue is whether or not the 9th found that Arias was within her rights to seek and have granted the right to present mitigating testimony on her own behalf- NO.
She took the stand in the guilt phase with the press there- so presented no “clear and present danger.”
I personally would have presented her 3rd party tweets and solicitations for art sales and donations as evidence Ms. Arias is quite used to- and functioning well in the public domain.
B
Rose says:
December 21, 2014 at 9:29 pm
Thank you for your response. I really appreciate your knowledge and experience on such a complex issue. I have to admit, I have a soft spot for people with horrendous disorders such a schizophrenia, psychosis, (cluster b’s….etc). It’s easy and common, to identify the person AS the illness, as it appears to us…evil. Does their act make them evil? That is something I have pondered over for years…and have had many intense conversations about. Where Arias is concerned, I have flip flopped from compassion, to resentment, to praying for her. My feelings are unstable and I can’t seem to stick to a certain perception (for lack of better words). As a Christian, I KNOW it’s about praying for others, ‘judge others less you be judged’ and love as I have loved you (beloved words in red). As a human, I’m conflicted. Another story for another time….
I don’t believe Arias has been efficiently, convincingly or effectively diagnosed. She’s a trickster…of that I’m certain. The rest is beyond my scope of knowledge, such as yours, Miss Rose. This is where I humbly step aside and acknowledge my limited understanding.
quote
I personally would have presented her 3rd party tweets and solicitations for art sales and donations as evidence Ms. Arias is quite used to- and functioning well in the public domain.
B
unquote
Justice exemplified. Is anyone, who is on this case, beyond their own hubris/ignorance to think of this for themselves.
..and my head continues to shake.
@ Who
I’ve referenced the court chat site myself. It has all the docs related to Travis Alexander’s murder. Makes for easy searching
Blink-
Thanks for response
my only question was if I was interpreting the opinion correctly- that Arias could access evidence from PREVIOUS trial and present evidence from previous trial for mitigation purposes. To me, this looks like an open door to a LONG road of almost doing the guilt phase over again- if for mo other reason that the cross exam necessary….
I do think that Stephens ” erred on the side of caution” initially, and allowed the closed courtroom to avoid appellate issues if Arias did not clearly waive her rights. I also believe it was truly wrong of defense to even press this issue, based as it was on arias claim that she would not be able to speak clearly if people were watching or some such nonsense. At least it saved the State from having to go to COA on that issue.
and BRILLIANT Blink- citing Arias use of social network to engage the public as proof that she is indeed functioning in the public domain. She has blogged her opinions often, commented on the jail and Arapaio etc. Most profoundly, she engaged in televised interviews, and in those interviews made the statements that have resulted in incendiary reactions.
QUESTION:
will this jury see the flores arias tapes with the ninja story or the televised in-depth interview where she denies knowledge of anything? What has to happen to get that stuff before this jury?
Both sides still look like hooligan punk court jesters. It should never have gone this far to begin with, eh?!
Can’t post that FriendLY- all unverified- but to your point- no it definitely should never have resulted in this- Pure Hubris, imo.
B
OT
Hope all enjoyed the holidays and are off to a happy new year-
I need to ask for well wishes and prayers for My Dear Dad- he has fallen ill with pneumonia – and is working hard to come back healthy
Id really appreciate it guys-
—-
On JA Trial
I see that Ragdoll has been keeping up to date on the trial- Its frustrating isnt it Friendly?
I think the defense is doing a good job of laying the foundation for possible misconduct and appeals-
It is maddening that it seems that the prosecution and LE mishandlings/possible misconduct has made their job easier….
Judge stevens deferred her ruling on releasing the transcripts of the ‘secret witness’ opting to wait for the supreme courts ruling-
She said Bet PP thru tweets:
This matter is before the Supreme Court. My concern is that if I release the transcripts, potential damage cannot be undone. Since the response was filed yesterday, I believe the Supreme Court should be given time to review and decide. This court asked that the transcripts of the sealed testimony be prepared so there will be no delay once there is an order. However, because the Supreme Court has had this issue only since Monday and because this issue is so important and can affect the outcome of this case, it is inappropriate to release them. If the Supreme Court does not rule on the stay by next Friday, Jan. 16, the judge will hear additional argument at 8:30 am”BK:- Martinez is arguing. Hard to hear him. … Nothing in the registry indicates that TA made visits to porn sites as they allege. Right now, we’re not arguing the porn; we’re just contesting the misconduct allegation. Regarding whether there were any keystrokes by TA for certain terms, … we went to a lot of these and just clicked on it. It seems to the state that there isn’t anything this person can offer.
end
I do believe that this was a good decision and her reasonings are sound-
Not sure that i can say that for her decision to hve the witness testify in secret to start though….
Judge Stevens has ruled to allow the testimony of ‘John smith” a self described- data scientist-’
marinez wished to preclude this experts testimony- thru tweets:
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
Juan is arguing to preclude witness- The defense computer expert says nothing was in registry saying Travis went to porn sites. #jodiarias William Pitts @william_pitts 35s35 seconds ago
“@TrialDiariesJ: Juan says during the hearing he was contesting the misconduct not the porn. #jodiarias ”
MaryEllen Resendez @maryellenabc15
#JuanMartinez argues against #JodiArias computer tech testimony-says offers no reason 4murder just a smear campaign #TravisAlexander
—Nurmi says in argument:
@TrialDiariesJ: Nurmi says he is scrambling with his witness to go over the hard drive. He wants more time. #jodiarias ” en’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
This goes to the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde we have put forth to the jury #jodiarias #3tvarias
MaryEllen Resendez @maryellenabc15
#JodiArias defense also claims testimony proves #TravisAlexander was a Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde with porn — #abc15
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
Travis said in the sex tape he wanted to make legit porn and Fonseca testified to his unusual sexual proclivities #jodiarias #3tvarias
Steve Krafft @SKrafftFox10
Defense asks for mistrial for umpteenth time accusing prosecutor of not turning over computer evidence. #jodiarias
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
My witness hasn’t had time to find more porn. If he had more time he would find more. This goes to Ms. Arias speaking the truth #jodiarias
Michael Kiefer @michaelbkiefer
Nurmi says testimony will show Alexander looked at porn night and day. Calls him Jekyll and Hyde. #Jodiarias MaryEllen Resendez @maryellenabc15
#JodiArias defense once again asking 4 Judge 2declare mistrial claiming prosecutor #JuanMartinez didn’t turn over computer evidence #abc15
Judge Stevens rules to allow testimony stating pp:
due to melendez testimony of no porn no virus/S she will allow this witness to testify
Cont part 2 the testimony
AJMO peace
Mom 3.0- I just said an arrow prayer for your Dear Dad. My Mum used to call them that when she said she had a prayer that had to go straight to GOD without the switchboard. LOL.
This decision looks like writing on the wall for Martinez, imo.
B
Part 2
“The state had an opportunity to review Mr. Smith twice this week. In reviewing my notes, the state elicited testimony from Melendez on Oct. 21, 2014 that he found no porn on the computer. Based on this witness (Smith) and MF, the court will allow the witness to testify”.
—
Witness has only had 3 days to look over 2008 data- others from 2009 were modified the 2008 is best but still not “pristine”
MaryEllen Resendez
#JodiArias computer tech expert John Smith called to stand by defense. #abc15
Michael Kiefer @michaelbkiefer 22s22 seconds ago
Pseudonym is being called John Smith for the purpose of testimony. He calls himself a data scientist. #Jodiarias
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
Smith has a high level of knowledge in this field. #jodiarias #3tvarias
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
He works with big corps when they’ve been hacked #jodiarias #3tvarias
MaryEllen Resendez
#JodiArias expert John Smith says he likes to be called a data scientist. He seems a bit nervous testifying #abc15
j
Wild About Trial @WildAboutTrial
There’s a taped sign outside of courtroom doors instructing witnesses to stay outside. That’s a fun new development. #jodiarias
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ 1
Mr. Smith worked in computers his whole life and he’s from San Jose, Cali #jodiarias #3tvarias
CBS 5 News @CBS5AZ
Defense witness does not want his identity made public. Concerned about backlash. Calling him John Smith. He is computer expert.#jodiarias
Wild About Trial @WildAboutTrial
Nurmi suggests through questioning that Smith can decrypt data intentionally hidden in a malicious nature. #jodiarias
Wild About Trial @WildAboutTrial
Witness states his biggest concerns were, “Drives had modification dates after they were taken in to evidence.” #jodiarias
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
Nurmi also getting out Mesa PD didn’t use a write blocker when computer was turned on twice #jodiarias #3tvarias
Steve Krafft @SKrafftFox10
Defense computer expert says evidence of modifications on Travis’s computer while in custody of Mesa Police. #jodiarias
Wild About Trial @WildAboutTrial
Smith is listing when there were modifications made on the computer post murder. Numerous. #jodiariasWild About Trial
@WildAboutTrial
June 19 2009 files modified 2,379. #jodiarias
Carolyn Sung @CarolynSungCNN
Smith says about 288 files were modified on the June 10, 2008 image he’s looking at. #jodiarias
Wild About Trial @WildAboutTrial
According to Smith… June 10 2008 – How many files modified? Answer: 288. #jodiarias
Nurmi asking questions re: if TA intentionally visited them himself vs. pop ups. #jodiarias
WildAboutTrial @ WildAboutTrial – Smith says it was human interaction.
Can verify with other files and activity on computer that TA visited those sites. #jodiarias
Steve Krafft @SKrafftFox10
Porn on Travis Alexander’s computer was put there by humans, not some computer-generated virus, defense expert says #jodiarias
Michael Kiefer @michaelbkiefer
Smith says the alteration to the computer could not have been caused by virus. #JodiArias
Michael Kiefer @michaelbkiefer
Nurmi asks how to tell if the porn came from virus or was sought out by a user. #JodiArias
—- ME-
Martinez is objecting left and right- lack of foundation thee were several side bars-
Nurmi brings up question regarding prosecution/LE tampering w evidence- Martinez objects saying Defense did it not them Judge asks jury to disregard question and Martinez’ interjections
—
tweets
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
OK some of it’s gmail to Reegan Housley (sp) #jodiarias #3tvarias
WildAboutTrial @ WildAboutTrial –
Witness just referred to Travis Alexander as “The Victim.”
Who wants to bet that, that won’t happen again after lunch? #jodiarias
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
OK Nurmi brings up the computer being used while TA was deceased. Smith says the email was just refreshed it was never sent #jodiarias
Jen’s Trial Diaries @TrialDiariesJ
OK now we have EBOK time…haha this sounds like testimony for Trekies #jodiarias
Michael Kiefer @michaelbkiefer
A long discussion of what Smith can learn from the cookies on Alexander’s computer. #jodiarias
—Lunch recess-
So it seems there is little doubt as to whether or not there was porn and virus/s and how it got there and by whom- it seems Melendez was wrong as were others but If defense is correct the 2008 mirror drive was held from them- and Martinez knew about TAs computer history- hence why on earth would an “expert” ever testify they dont look at the cookies” because it aint their preference….
Sigh what a horrible travesty- had LE and the prosecution been upfront- and had they safeguarded the evidence- they could have easily have overcome this “breaking news” TA wasnt perfect and Ja wasnt all evil…still clear who victim and murderer was…yet now as it stands it has to leave most wondering why hide it- why destroy it why lose it-
Many left asking who is bigger liar- bigger ‘hider’ of “truth” JA or JM and LE?
UGGG
AJMO Peace
oops this was not what Judge stevensruled regarding release of transcripts::
”BK:- Martinez is arguing. Hard to hear him. … Nothing in the registry indicates that TA made visits to porn sites as they allege. Right now, we’re not arguing the porn; we’re just contesting the misconduct allegation. Regarding whether there were any keystrokes by TA for certain terms, … we went to a lot of these and just clicked on it. It seems to the state that there isn’t anything this person can offer.
but instead was Jm argument against computer experts testimony- I accidently included it in wrong place
Sorry for confusion
@michaelbkiefer: AZ Supreme Court denies stay of appeals court order to release transcripts of #jodiarias testimony.
So frustrating…..dear friendy Mom3.0, & Blinkster. If only protocol was followed to the TEE from the beginning! The truth could have spoken for itself. This would be over, no doubt. Justice served, whether death or LWOP…which is just as victorious. Keep that killer out of the public!!!
That word, friendLY….hubris. It’s the enemy.
Love to you both xo xo
In my view, this was about winning, not administering justice- there is a very big difference. I do not like this defendant and I believe she is where she belongs and should be there forever- HOWEVER- breaking the law or acting willfully negligently in one’s duty ( you almost never see prosecutors sanctioned but in this case it is so egregious I am hoping to see an exception) was the only way to put her there?
There was more physical and direct evidence in this case than one nearly ever sees in a homicide and shoddy LE and forensic practice couples with Prosecutorial hubris of an EASILY prosecutable case (if one follows the evidence appropriately). As an analyst- my business practice is that no report leaves my office without peer review. There is no way I believe that happened in Arias and it is a capital case ftlog.
It would not be fair if I did not offer my opinion that the defense was not well read in forensics going into this case either unless it was a strategic gamble on their part to overturn the verdict on appeal- but that would require Arias’s “buy in” so to speak and I do not see that happening- she is far too unstable.
There was no witness prep, no mock trials, the prosecutors office was back and forth with witnesses that should have been invoked- in my view Martinez is a hot mess in this case. If this gets dismissed or overturned mark my words- there will be a special prosecutor assigned and the evidence allowed at trial will NOT include any of the e-evidence without stipulation by both parties and this becomes a very defensible case for Arias. A first year Law student could defend this case if they studied the transcript and case file there are so many holes in it. Where’s the justice in that?
xo
B
No justice in that!
Been reading Mom3.0,’s posts (the social media circus from JSS to the killer herself). I can’t believe the lack of basic bar ethics in this case (or Caylee’s murder). Now that we’ve all got a good look at how it works against all levels of justice, it needs to be banned. Our country’s system is certainly not without major flaws…but I do know the use of social media on any judicial level, from municipal to Queen’s bench, would not be tolerated. Repercussions. Consequences. Certainly no inmate access to web or twitter to sell cheesy, pre K art. The whole shat show would be promptly shut down. New trial. New players.
I only recognize the misconduct of the state because it’s been so widely confronted, outed and revealed with details.
Anything else I add is only repetitious blathering….but may I add how much this frosts me?!!!!
xo