Morgan Harrington Case: Virginia State Police On New Search
Charlottesville, VA– Virginia State Police are searching an area of route 64, between mile markers 112 and 114 today in their efforts to locate missing VT student, Morgan Harrington.
Located approximately 4 miles west of Charlottesville, VA, the stretch of highway leads up to an early area of interest, Crozet, VA.
VSP PR Manager, Connie Geller says the area is not being searched based on any new tip.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for this developing story.
Update #1. Jim Hanchett, Newsplex, reports the search has ended for this area today, and is awaiting any news of other possible search areas.
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Waldrop at #1743. St. Anne’s is across a non-pedestrian friendly highway and is now, in any case, a huge construction area.
I’m thinking — for today, at least — that she was in contact with a male acquaintance in the Charlottesville/Albemarle area in the run-up to the concert, that she was willingly intoxicated and left the concert by mistake, that she then contacted him after failing to gain re-entry, and that’s who picked her up near the Copeley bridge. I think death through misadventure is more likely than from violence.
Fish, (yet to frontal) LOL!
I believe that most of the accounts are from outside arena. However, they is a sighting of her falling inside, and also the bathroom, someone reported that she was crying,but no mention that she was impaired.
Evidently LE is confirming the sightings of Morgan dropping her purse, aurguing, and even perhaps the kicking incident.
I wonder if LE is basing this recent confirmation that Morgan was frinking based on the sightings and reports of witnesses, or possibly the friends may have finally admitted that they had been drinking or may I rephrase that, that Morgan was drinking.
I think we could probaly for the camera in there for good measure too. Perhaps the release so late with the camera came from one the friends that may have started chatting a bit with LE, or they have known about it and witth held it from the public for strategic reasons.
I dunno.
“But if she was picked up by a perp or forced in someone’s car on the bridge – as investigators contend – how would this person/people know where to “toss” her bag? *If* her bag was tossed/planted, she would have had to be in the RV lot with this person/people at some point, and that doesn’t match LE’s current timeline”.
J2K – Please expound on this. The timeline has her in the RV lot with people, then the purse is found there. Why does that not match the current timeline?
Fish:
So sorry about the typos in the above post. was typing fast. Basically, I think that LE has come out and confirmed to the public that Morgan was drinking. I am not sure what they are basing that on, could be the friends that have no started talking, or it could be that they have known, and have kept it from the public until now.
I believe same with the camera.
#1738 -Lee “…her impaired state left her “wide open” to someone not normally inclined to be enticed to take advantage of the situation”.
Ladies and gentlemen, for any of you studying this site for psychology/sociology purposes…HERE is a social problem for you. Because Morgan was 1) drinking, 2) dressed somewhat provocatively some might think, 3) hitchhiking, she left herself “wide open”, meaning, it was her fault she went and got herself abducted, possibly raped and murdered. Bull crap, hell to the no, this really pisses me off! It took me YEARS, yes i say YEARS to finally forgive myself for walking out of that party in a skimpy dress and getting myself raped. Yeah, that’s really how I wanted the night of my 10 year high school reunion to end up! It took a counselor who literally had to holler at me and shake me to make me realize that no matter what, I DID NOT DESERVE TO BE RAPED. The reason they never found the guy who did it was because LE treated me like crap and I said forget it, it’s not worth the hassle. The only reason LE got involved was because I was afraid I had a broken jaw and went to the ER and they called the cops because they thought my boyfriend had done it. AAARGH! (kicking a chair, shouting obscenities).
Okay, I’m okay, you all are okay. It’s gonna be fine. We’re gonna find Morgan and Susan Powell and other women who have somehow managed to leave themselves “wide open” to being victims. (Several deep cleansing breaths). I’m in my happy place. I’m in my happy place. Wow.
Mary-
I am so heartily sorry that happened to you. Have you read the Gift of Fear? Your story could be in it my dear lady.
I do not believe anyone here is projecting Morgans situation. I dare say we know rape is a crime of violence and rage here, nothing else.
B
Finally, in reference to J2K’s most recent post, forgive me I am just too tired to go back, if I’m not mistaken, LE said they were “confident” she was hitchhiking, not confident she got in a car, although I believe she did in fact get in a car (or truck or RV). I remember back on one of the earlier threads Blink said it so well and I’m going to have to paraphrase, “like LE is saying yeah, we believe you, now tell us more”.
and, y’all are forgetting that morgan’s ‘friends’ stated they would be staying at uva that night.
who knows what they did that night or where they were? let’s put these pieces together….
i think it all happened between morgan seeing the bball players, argument with bg in parking lot, the medical assistance call on west lawn, the newspaper woman’s sighting on west lawn,the pocketbook being found the next day, the friends stalling and mis-information re: car (who drove, who was in it, what car was it)… it all connects a pretty specific triangle
and, the biggest clue of all…
no pictures
and, no offense to fish, but that’s some fishy !#$%
one of you guys, more sleuthly than i, please put together a “latest timeline/ factline/ rumorline that correlates….
and, really! isn’t there someone out there that has a good insight into morgan? the find morgan fb page is filled with strangers. where are her friends????
No Blink, I know no one here is projecting and I’m sorry I let my emotions get the better of me there for a minute. It’s just the statement attributed to LE that set me off. I’m very sorry if I gave the impression I was berating anyone here.
I did not think you were berating anyone friend.
I understand.
B
Okay I swear to God this is my last post (tonight). #1757 – awa
YES!!!!! to everything you said.
mjh — I see what you’re saying, that the simple explanation might go back to the friends accepting that she was going to find a ride. And that acceptance just is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.
If we apply the same it-is-what-it-is logic (nothing more, nothing less) to the rest of the evening then things might be exactly how they appear….that she did indeed try to find a ride. And that trying to find a ride involved asking people for a ride, texting people for a ride and/or hitching for a ride.
And that ultimately she found a ride, and entered a car on that bridge.
I am a little confused about “the answers are in Charlottesville” comment…could this indicate a zeroing in on a POI….like you said, maybe a friend in the area.
Mary-
My heart goes out to you. No woman should have to suffer as you did. You must always remember that the only blame goes to the one who commits such an ugly act.
And I agree, that a statement by LE that Morgan left herself “open” to this is both out of line and just plain stupid. Does this mean all “impaired” woman on the UVA campus are at risk? Not to mention if she was so impaired, stumbling, dropping things, irrational…where the heck was security?
And before anyway accuses me of being anti-law enforcement — really I like cops, I even married one! But that doesn’t mean they’re infallible. They are very human.
@#1732, Josie: Thanks for Scott L.’s report, which had I read it previously, would have convinced me that just two had ridden back to JMU. sheesh – no wonder it’s confusing sorting out facts.
@# 1740, fish: yes to your entire post, and I still wonder; why not simply say three rode back, from the outset?
J2K — I interpret LE’s confidence that she entered a vehicle on (or near) Copeley Bridge as meaning they received absolutely no witness sightings of her after 9:30 from anywhere. (Not necessarily meaning that someone actually saw her get into a car). If she would have continued walking along Copeley she would have reached Ivy which is heavily traveled and would have been seen by many more people.
(Of course there’s always the possibility they have a witness that saw her enter a car)
comment posted Yesterday by RickF at http://www.findmorgan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1752
Before you read any further, I know that Morgan didn’t have her cell phone on her. However, there is a good chance that her abductor did have one. And it is my understanding that the cell tower protocol involves control mechanisms that maintain contact with your cell phone as you move about the city – even when you are not on a call. In the WiFi world, this is called “association”.
The attached is a suggestion that I already sent to the VA state police, but I did not get any response. Maybe they’ve looked down this path, or maybe it is not feasible for some other reason. But I think the reasoning behind it is sound. Are there any telecom gurus out there that can comment?
Attached Images cell tower trace.pdf (16.9 KB, 41 views)
I could not access his attachments
I am having a bit of trouble posting this. Could someone please with knowledge of this check out All Ricks info and see what you think.
Limo driver musings. Limo drivers have sometimes set off my hinky meter radar big time. I used to travel alone quite a bit for business, and the three most nerve-racking rides were in Madrid, Chicago and D.C. I’ll keep my story to the D.C. experience.
In Arlington, VA, one dark, misty and cold January evening (estimated 11 to 14 years ago), a group dinner engagement ran over, and I had to leave my party behind for an important meeting and presentation at a D.C. hotel. Needed a cab, and the one the restaurant had called for me hadn’t arrived after 10-15 minutes. I’m sure I looked visibly agitated pacing outside. A strrreeetttch limo pulled up and the driver asked if he could give me a ride.
Hinky meter and destination desperation conflicted. Asked him if his boss wouldn’t mind. Said his clients were at dinner next door, and would be an hour or two yet, and that he would be back and they would never know. Asked him how much he would charge; he told me nothing–he was bored. Hinky meter rising. Told him that I was going back inside to tell my friends; went in and waited a few baits, then went back out and got in the limo. (Those were the days of pagers, not sleek little cell phones.) He talked on the way (and I know the city well enough to know it was the right way and made sure he knew that) and told me he owned the limo. Said he would give me a ride anytime I needed one when I was in the city, if he wasn’t booked. When we arrived, he gave me his card. I paid him what I would have paid for a cab for the ride. Made quite an entrance for my meeting, arriving in that stretch, lol.
Kept the card for years, but never called again. Hinky meter was still high, and I kept the card sort of as a just-in-case I read about anything in the news, you know? Threw it away just a couple of years ago.
Still seems strange today. The driver was well-spoken, well-dressed, and tall-dark-and-handsome. Seemed more likely as a limo passenger, than a driver. (How many stretch chauffeurs own their own limos? I have no clue.) Very nice new limo.
Was it my lucky day? Or my narrow escape?
Going back to D.C. to meet with some of the same people next week. The recent limo driver posts brought this back to mind.
They did thoroughly check out the limo driver and his clients, right? Seriously. A limo driver waiting at 9:30 would have had at least 90 minutes before his clients would have noticed he was missing, right?
Lizzy- thank you for profiling your intuitive responses that never accessed your fear, although you were ready for it.
It is important to note that we may or may not be validated in these situations. Sometimes your gift of fear is simply running a systems check, you know, an emergency test signal. What is critically important is your “atune” to it.
Re the limo driver, somewhere on this site, was the parking directives for limos and when they needed to be in place, iirc, he was not that early, and furthermore, he could have been directed to be in place by the client. This limo driver and his boss were interviewed at least 3x that I am aware of. I dare say his gift of fear for Morgan may have been atune as well.
B
mary & B -
I may have confused you, as I definitely befuddled myself playing a mental game of Twister in an attempt to reconcile people’s disbelief MH would drop/lose her purse before hitching on the bridge, with LE’s contention that she entered the car of a potential perp on/near the bridge (“Investigators also believe Harrington got into a car after her last sighting on the Copeley Street bridge on UVA’s campus.” – from Dec. 30 presser recap: http://www2.wsls.com/sls/news/state_regional/article/morgan_harrington_was_drinking_night_she_disappeared/71414/)
My main point was: if these two notions co-exist (MH had purse/got in car on bridge), how did her bag end up in the lot (after, as some of you contend, she and her phone were immediately disabled once in vehicle thus the 9:30 shutdown)? How would the swift perp know where she had been prior to entering his vehicle?
(For the record, I don’t believe these two scenarios *do* co-exist; I was just exploring their feasibility.)
Then again, she could have been picked up by a car heading eastbound away from Ivy as she walked along the sidewalk. The driver would likely have pulled off into the RV lot/rear of UHall lot(?) to allow her to get into the vehicle. To all of you locals: is this possible – i.e., to turn off into either lot right after the bridged portion of Copeley heading toward the arena? If so, which lot would there have been more likely for such a vehicle to veer off the roadway into? Would police or security been posted throughout that area around 9:30? Cabs/more limos?
Personally, this right-foot-yellow-left-elbow-blue scenario is giving me a cramp. It’s hard to match what seem like realistic actions a person would take in MH’s boots with LE’s model of the night up ’til 9:30. “Irrational” or not.
jen (re: #1723)
Good post, but I’m not seeing anywhere that notes MH planned to meet up with a specific friend or party *in* Cville. This was my initial line of thought on this case, and it makes the most sense, yet I still can’t find the references you noted mentioning she was headed local/Cville (may be way down the threads). Would you mind copying and pasting them here? The only comment on the matter I saw from Tarheelplaya said the Friends explained MH was meeting someone she knew (no location noted), before he cryptically elaborated “or else they’d be ashamed”… which sort of negates the source-based “info” he posted anyway. (Which is it, playa?)
Also, if we believe OYE’s report on MH being told “don’t get drunk at that party” – she *did* get drunk at that party. Well, a party: the party/drinking sesh before they left for Cville later in the afternoon with a DD at MH’s wheel.
And, if she was trying to head somewhere local, why did her friends in the arena claim she said she’d find a ride home? The most obvious answer is they lied/are lying to protect someone, but wouldn’t the truth have been smoked out by now? They’re kids – and not particularly sharp ones at that. Plus, the only person LE has stated MH was texting with before her phone kapooted was “60 miles/minutes away” – in Harrisonburg, (imo).
Of course, we only know what’s been released to the public at this point…
lee (#1736) – thanks so much for posting about your conversation with UVA police.
dew (#1742) I share your skepticism about the safety of young women in Cville with what *sounds like* a mystery part-time predator roaming the area. MH’s behavior that night could not have been *that* unusual on a college campus – LE’s either dealing with a known entity, or they seriously believe (without knowing who picked her up/no POI) that MH’s circumstances (drunk, walking alone, not thinking clearly) were completely unique and unlikely to be repeated by other young women.
Mary,
Thank your for your story. I felt the same way when Lee told us of his conversation with UVA LE.
WTH? They said “well, she left herself wide open” for attack because she was impaired? Wow. I was stunned by that.
Yes, we know it is true that we are vulnerable when we don’t protect ourselves, but this was NOT her fault in any way shape or form. And I know you know that for yourself. (Is it too late to procecute your prepetrator?!)
Thank you for sharing and know that you’ve got a major-tough army of women behind you!
Does anyone remember this?
I could be mistaken, but, I thought I remembered that there was a post on some website, possibly a game website(?), around the time of the concert. I think, the poster asked the other person, a male, *something* like, ‘What happened to you last night?’.
The person being asked, if I recall correctly, and I may be wrong, might have been a med tech / security who attended the concert.
RE: #1755 Comment by mary
TY for writing that. I am so sorry you went through what you did. But to say “…her impaired state left her “wide open” to someone not normally inclined to be enticed to take advantage of the situation”. made my blood boil also. No one deserves to be taken advantage of no matter what state of mind they are in or what clothes they are wearing. This is almost saying that the perp had every right to do what he/she/they did…..hell to the no as you said!!! In this day and age where fashion seems to be “anything goes” Morgan (or anyone else for that matter) did not deserve this, and neither did you Mary!
For the parent (I think it was Lee) that got this reply….That to me, as a parent, would have sent up red flags. That to me is saying that “If something happens to YOUR daughter on their property, it was something she caused and it was her fault.” I would be seriously thinking about that statement on choosing that college.
I was thinking about the RV lot and Morgans purse. I wonder if there was someone who saw her interaction with the BBP and once they left struck up with Morgan and gave her that ill fated ride to where ever…..once he did what ever he has done, he returned to the RV lot and tossed the purse to throw everything off, make it look like the BBP were the last to have contact with Morgan…..
I also think that if I were the Harringtons I would have been screaming at LE by now. This whole case sounds like alot of information has been lost because of the lack of. I don’t know what responsibility the friends are now sharing in Morgans disappearence and I am sure they are living with their own demons and will for the rest of their lives, but if they were my daughters BF and all this was going like it is in this case I would be shaking them until they rattled off everything. I know for 10 days or so Dr. Harrington did not even know his daughters car was at JPJ, now why didn’t the friends share that with them right from the start? Little things like that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm…
I don’t post often but I am here everyday reading all of your wonderful posts. Skyler, Chad, Fish, J2K and everyone else, I feel like I have gotten to know you through your souls from your writings. And Blink, I admire you for being the voice of those who can no longer speak. Thank you for that and TY for allowing us to be a part of all this.
Dew, while maybe not well worded, I think LE sent a good warning to young people everywhere, anytime. Don’t assume you are safe, no matter where you are. In other words, don’t leave yourself open to unseen or unexpected danger. I have thought and believe I have posted before that in my view the first line of defense begins with the person and the people she/he are with. Dan has been spoken of by many as a designated driver. If he was in actual fact a designated driver, meaning these young people made the decision that the rest of them could drink, that he would not, they made a wise decision at least in the beginning. Being under-aged, in a perfect world they would not have been drinking, but are any of us perfect? It is POSSIBLE (emphasis, not yelling) that Morgan stepped outside of the net of safety provided in numbers once she reached the arena. We do not know what happened. There is the possibility she was drinking, either before she arrived, inside the arena, or even outside the arena with someone in the parking lot. There is the possibility she perhaps tripped and suffered a head injury. Very easy to trip, even stone sober, when lights are dimmed during a performance or when stairways are packed. There’s some hint, even by LE, that maybe she was drugged, but not by her own doing. In all of these possibilities, the two actions she and the rest of her group had absolute control over were drinking too much and looking out for each other. If Morgan’s only impairment was drinking too much and loosing control of her own situation because of that drinking, then yes she did leave herself open to something bad happening. If in an alcohol haze, she wandered outside of the arena, she did indeed leave herself open to a bad situation. If her friends, through an act of I don’t care, I’m not missing the concert, left her alone outside, then they contributed to leaving her open to a bad situation. All of this being said, no matter what her condition, should she have come to evil, ABSOLUTELY NOT (yelling and emphasis this time.) Assuming she left the vicinity of the arena at the hands of an abductor, is she in anyway responsible for what happened once she met that individual, ABSOLUTELY NOT. The person who took her away is at fault. What I mean, and I hope LE was trying to convey by using the word “open” is that everyone has to be aware of their own safety at all times. Unfortunately, sometimes it’s possible to do everything right and still come to harm, but it does sound like there was some breakdown of basic self-safety awareness by these young people. No matter their actions and seeming lack of concern for one of their party, if Morgan disappeared at the hands of someone for now unknown, that person is the one responsible, and hopefully, will be made to pay in the very, very, near future.
Comment by mosaic — January 6, 2010 @ 12:46 am
Re: entering someones car.
I read somewhere the week Morgan went missing that she (or someone matching her descrpition) was seen speaking to someone in an dark colored SUV stopped on a road with no lights on. (She on foot and the SUV stopped on the shoulder)
I cannot find this info anywhere now but do remember this as I cannot believe no one has spoke much of this sighting.
Does anyone about this info, if the sighting ever checked out?
B: I’m confused–not an altogether infrequent state of mind. [It may be that a combination of too much snow and too much Cardenal Mendoza sherry over the holidays has addled my aged brain.] Please email me to refresh my memory on the reference you were making above. TIA.
Now, attempting to make up for lost time over the last few weeks of a welcome holiday break, following is another reading-glasses-length post. [I realize readers would expect no less—and understandably chide me if I’m otherwise brief and intentionally cryptic in my commentary.]
As the investigation into the MH disappearance is well into its third month, I offer the following:
RE: the BB players: Not to beat this proverbial dead horse yet again, I repeat: the BB players–specifically and including Jamil Tucker–are not suspects in the MH disappearance. LE has thoroughly and separately interviewed each of the BB players, including Tucker, and corroborated the accounts given.
Because the BB players were the last people to have reportedly spoken to MH does not implicate them. [The operative word in that statement is “reportedly”.] In the same vein, because a specific eyewitness, e.g. the limo driver or granny, was the last person to have reportedly seen MH does not imply that the limo driver or granny is complicit in her disappearance.
The preceding statements are not presented as part of a defense of UVA, the BB players themselves, the UVA BB team, the UVA Athletic Department, the UVA PD, the limo driver, or granny. [I repeat: I am not now nor have ever been a defense attorney--although I am familiar with several, none of whom are associated with this case.] Neither are my statements a not-so-thinly veiled attempt to deflect attention from these individuals and re-direct it elsewhere.
There is information unavailable to the general public that substantiates these statements. Because certain information is not released for public consumption, i.e., is intentionally withheld, does not negate the existence of the information or its applicability in this investigation.
I repeat an earlier manta: During an active investigation–especially one as challenging as the MH disappearance–the public receives only limited information from LE for a reason/s. The public’s greatest challenge: to accept and trust those reasons. In the most general of senses, those reasons may include but are not limited to:
a) successful corroboration of witness accounts (an apt poster here has already noted this in an earlier post); and/or
b) later, successful criminal prosecution.
I would be remiss to comment further on this except to suggest that readers pay very close attention to reason (a) listed above.
Beyond the above, J2K wisely notes: “LE deserves more credit than to be out-witted by some college athletes who, if they were involved in her disappearance, would have perpetrated the crime/cover-up fairly spontaneously that night. They were the last people seen with her outside of a mystery vehicle she allegedly flagged down, and many locals are clamoring that a “typical UVA coverup” is occurring in regard to their involvement. If LE did not believe something happened to her other than an ill-fated night with a BB player she purposely approached on her way to Copeley Road, there would be some serious heat on one or all of these dudes. In other words: LE has known for quite some time what the interaction between MH and these guys consisted of that night.”
Two words: They have. [And well done, J2K.]
RE: the Copeley Rd. bridge: It is believed–with very good reason—that MH entered a vehicle on/near the Copeley Rd. bridge. This belief is based on three data points:
1) the last known sighting of MH was between 9:20 and 9:30 on/near the Copeley Rd. bridge;
2) the bridge is where the tracking dogs last identified her scent; and
3) independent eyewitnesses report that MH was seen hitchhiking on/near the bridge.
[Note: It takes less than 30 seconds to enter a vehicle; 15 seconds is not unreasonable to open a vehicle door, get in, and close the vehicle door.]
As J2K aptly stated: “For whatever reason (and I bet it’s a good one), LE states MH flagged a car down on Copeley Road, near Ivy Lane. They have not moved the proverbial cheese from this dairy shelf. This activity, directly before she’s off the grid, has somehow been substantiated or it would not be repeatedly stated by LE.”
Let us assume for just a moment that the above scenario is not accurate (although I believe it is.) If, in fact, MH fell off the bridge, she would had to have:
a) intentionally crawled up, on, and then over the three railings on the side of the bridge; or
b) crawled under/between the railings.
In either case the reasons would clearly be unfathomable. Perhaps—but equally unlikely:
c) MH was pushed up, on, and then over the railings–again, for reasons unfathomable.
At the precise moment that MH fell or was pushed up and over the railings, then:
a) a railroad car would had to have been going underneath the bridge on the tracks below; and
b) her body would had to have fallen directly into/on the car below; and
c) her body would had to have fallen not just near or next to the car.
[Note: The dominant use of the rail line running under the bridge is the westbound return of coal and grain cars returning from Tidewater ports, although the line is also used for the three-days-a-week run of the Cardinal (Amtrak) passenger train.]
Bear in mind that the areas adjacent to the railroad tracks below the bridge were already searched multiple times, first by the LE teams using helicopters with thermal imaging and ground search teams with trained search dogs on Oct. 21 and 22, and again later by volunteer searchers on Nov. 6, 7 and 8.
If MH’s body did fall into a railroad car at precisely the moment the car was moving under the bridge, her body would have long ago been visible when the car was emptied. The body of a very fair-skinned, young woman with long, blond hair would stand out against virtually any landscape or background and would not easily be mistaken for coal or grain. Her black mini-skirt, boots, and Pantera shirt would stand out clearly against grain, and her fair skin and hair would stand out clearly against coal.
The above scenarios make MH’s purported fall/push from the Copeley Rd. bridge appear highly unlikely.
What makes all of the above even more implausible and nigh to impossible: LE has already confirmed that there were no freight trains running at that time on the evening on October 17, 2009.
RE: the purse: I repeat for the sake of clarification: I do not believe the purse was intentionally “staged” in the Lanningan Field/RV lot by the perpetrator of MH’s disappearance, nor do I believe that MH willingly left it there. Young women MH’s age do not knowingly part with their purse, their cell phone, their make-up (especially in MH’s case), etc. One of my earliest posts posited the following scenario, re: the purse:
“Many have asked why, if Morgan was purportedly seen on the Copeley Bridge, would her purse and cell phone be left or found “behind” her at the Lannigan Field RV lot? Some conjectured that she dropped it there earlier, by mistake, before heading down to the Copeley Bridge. While that could indeed have occurred, it may be worth considering this scenario: Morgan left JPJ. She walked through the UHall parking, and into the Lannigan Field RV lot–-all with purse in hand (or, on her back if it’s a type of “backpack-purse”). She then proceeds to Copeley Bridge. The abductor/assailant/perpetrator is headed toward JPJ, stops, convinces Morgan to get into his vehicle (remember, it is misty, dark and 42 degrees outside and Morgan is only wearing a tee-shirt; no jacket or coat), drives directly to the Lannigan RV lot (only feet away), disables her, discards her purse out the vehicle window, and leaves the area with Morgan. If Morgan’s cell phone was in her purse (her mini-skirt probably did not have pockets), the cell phone battery could easily have fallen out on impact. The very small size of a cell phone battery could be easily overlooked, especially if it fell in the RV lot where vehicles after the concert would run over it when departing the lot.”
I do not–repeat, do not–believe that MH’s purse is irrelevant to this investigation. [If I’ve indicated otherwise, please point out in what post I stated that I believed MH's purse was not relevant to this investigation.] Indeed, I believe it is extremely important to this investigation. I do, however, believe that the report of a purse stolen from a car is not relevant to the MH investigation. I believe that these are two separate, distinct, and unrelated issues. Easily confused? Certainly–as are many things about this investigation, with great frequency. Different issues, however? Yes.
In closing, I urge readers to pay close attention to a scenario described by sherlock–“Something goes wrong and we have abduction/murder, possibly by someone completely outside the circle of known people. At this point, the “trail” of friends, BB players and other known people becomes an obsolete dead end because they lost contact prior to the perp abducting her, and she entered a “zone” of action for a period of time where she was among strangers or one stranger, thus “off the radar”–and another astute observation by J2K: “LE is *not* debating whether she attended the concert – they believe/have proof that she did. Keep in mind, we are privy to half of a fraction of what they’ve learned through interviews and other means in the course of their investigation.”
Emphasis (mine) on “…we are privy to half of a fraction of what they (LE) have learned through interviews and other means in the course of their investigation.”
O-
I need to re-read after fetching my glasses, I was fairwarned, thanks.
But seriously, I would like to get others reactions to your post before I weigh in. I am admittedly “leaning” and I would like to see a cross-section as objectively as possible.
B
I just wanted to chime in here that the statement made to Lee by the Uva police also brought my blood dangerously close to the boiling point.
I agree the officer gave this statement as an implicit warning along the lines of: Morgan’s abduction was the direct result of her drinking/altered state.
No, no, no! Her drinking did not cause her to be abducted–the behaviors of the abductor are what caused her harm! Yes, we should all educate our kids about personal safety and to never let down their guard, but they are kids and still learning!
If anything, the campus police need to take a much more pro-active role in teaching students about personal safety and self-protection. They also need to be present at events like the concert, not just to maintain peace, but to protect our children. Where exactly were they that evening, and what steps were they taking to keep the concert goers safe? That’s what I would like to know.
OK. I am going to go there.
There is a pervasive preconception among some members of UVA PD, that has spilled over to civillians who they have spoken to about this case, that Morgan Harrington was drunk, believed to be on a hallucinagenic and was obnoxious and combative ON THE WAY TO JPJ in the car.
I am not saying this because it’s a rumor, I am saying this because this was said to me personally by a confirmed source.
There is more I am choosing not to post because I am concerned it will “out” said source.
We have a fat lot of disjoints in information circling “within” an investigative agency. We have confirmation of the fact that on some level, UVA PD is blaming Morgan’s “impaired status” on what happened to her-
I call that a guess considering nobody knows where she is or who is responsible.
So I ask, if she were so flagrantly impaired as is alleged, why was she not arrested? I have provided the arrest logs from the JPJ arena that evening. There were plenty for drinking/underage drinking. Why hasn’t someone come forward from security stating she was asked to leave because of it?
I have an idea, can someone on campus do me a favor and pull the incident report on the stolen purse filed on 10/17 9:30PM?
Let’s just clear this up .
B
Okay…..
The following is a compilation of some of the ‘facts’ from LE, as I recall them. Anything inside these specific brackets [] will be opinions/theory/questions.
Please continue to add to this time line of facts, so, that we can try to walk in Morgan’s shoes that night, and be her eyes and ears.
*********
Was at/next to beer counter. (Witnessed by WT)
Drinking beer. [Who bought her beer> <Was beer spiked when bought for her?]
Kissed SS on cheek. [Was Morgan drinking beer when she kissed SS / Was she already impaired?]
Told SS she was going to BR or smoke or both?
Morgan seen falling. (Two concert witnesses)
Morgan seen with chin injury. (LE?)
Morgan seen crying in bathroom. (LE?)
Bathroom significant. [Did Morgan interact with others in BR]
Did not willingly take drug. [Did someone hold her beer /spiked beer while she was inside BR? ]
Morgan outside arena.
Morgan attempted to reenter arena (Witness)
Called SS and said could not get back in.
Told SS she would get a ride. [To home / Charlottesville party or JMU]
Texted young man 60 miles away. [Did young man tell someone in Charlottesville Morgan needed a ride?]
DH said young man is not suspect. [This young man may know identity of possible POI ]
Interacted with BB players. (Limo driver witness)
Walking toward Copely. (BB players witness)
[BB players probably could not see Morgan on the bridge from where they were due to trees]
On bridge with what appeared to be thumb out. (Female witness)
[Did Morgan spot her ride and playfully held out her thumb to him/her]
Morgan entered a vehicle. [LE probably has some description]
Not random. [Person known or seemed trustworthy to Morgan]
Driver took advantage of situation when normally might not have. (LE)
LE issuing no warning to locals.
Friends not suspects. (Eliminate SS, DC, AM) [I don’t think LE would have made a blanketed statement about Morgan’s friends; thus, LE was referring to the friends with her that evening at the concert]
Morgan’s car searched but not forensically processed (LE)
Purse found where she had been.
Purse dropped. (LE)
Purse not important (LE)
[If Morgan did not drop purse, then it had to be taken back to RV lot by someone who saw her there to know where to put it back.]
Necklace missing / Significant (LE)
Camera missing / Significant (LE)
THE ANSWER IS IN CHARLOTTESVILLE. (LE)
No POI (LE) [I don’t believe this. The LE seem very confident about certain details and that tells me that they do have a POI in their sights. ]
——-
[Person Morgan knew or contact of 60 mile male friend might have been driving toward Morgan to meet her]
[Morgan walking to meet person and person spots her as Morgan spots him and she jokingly sticks out thumb?]
—-
[Was beer counter near exit doors? ]
[Would it be easy for a person inside arena to view Morgan outside conversing with security/trying to get back in?]
[Could another person at concert, who might have first aid/med. Knowledge, offer to assist Morgan when he saw her fall. Then, offer to give her a ride. She would trust him, even if she did not previously know him. He might have said to meet him where he parked his car, which might have been closer to Copely/Ivy. He might have had knowledge of general areas of where she had parked/walked and taken purse back – if she had not already dropped it].
—–
TO THE PERSON WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEMISE OF MORGAN. IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME. LOOK BEHIND YOU. I CAN HEAR THE LE SAYING—I’M ON THE FIRST STEP. I’M ON THE SECOND STEP….
Re: #1771 Comment by AtotheK
I remember that about the SUV being stopped on the road and someone matching Morgan’s description……..would that tie into what Skyler saw?
Observer, I neglected to mention to you that you are the first individual to actually acknowledge that Tucker was indeed one of the basketball players who was interviewed by LE.
Would you be able to confirm if Assane was the other, and if it was in the presence of an interpreter or counsel?
B
Roageo-At the Rockettes (yes there was beer sold there, surprised me) the ID table was near the main entrance. I believe the procedure is you show your identification, get a plastic bracelet, probably the kind that can only be removed by snipping or cutting, then you can go to designated concessions along the interior corridors of the arena to purchase the beer. Since I didn’t plan on drinking that night, I didn’t notice the limit, but I have heard it’s usually 3 or 4 beers. While they do seem very careful about checking ID and issuing the bracelets, there’s absolutely nothing to stop a legal buyer from passing the beer off to a younger concert goer, especially someone Morgan’s age, who just at a glance would raise no questions if she was seen with a beer.
B: I am unable to confirm any other information.
Thank you.
B
Comment by NYMom — January 5, 2010 @ 10:22 pm
…but it certainly suggests no one from another farther away place such as JMU.H’burg)), probably to a house/apt.
NYMom: facinating!
i had thought that the statement OYE made:
“Morgan was told not to get drunk at the party”, meant the party before the concert not a party after she was locked out of the arena. please do not fry me for missing this! remember i am not a professional! i would begin to believe that the bbplayers definitely, know more than they are saying.
who are the four players?
who are all of the friends at the cars, pre-concert?
dee’s and the new jersey guy?
who rode with him?
did someone come with dee’s group yet somehow hook up with Morgan after she was locked out?
do the bbplayers know something more?
or here’s another riddle…did the limo driver witness bbplayers tossing her around, flirting and such nonsense?
hense, her phone is tossed at “dead-stop time?!
am i suppose to believe it was the bbplayers said she was HH?
it seems to me that if they have a POI, and Morgan could have been at any one of those houses/apts., who ownes these places and could there be a search warrant based on anything (don’t know what i’m talking about) to get into a house/apt., from the person not wanting any trouble linked to their rental unit????
also, someone pays rent or a mortgage and the light bill, is it up to date? sure LE has all this covered. just needed to vent.
it seems that every male involved in Morgan’s case is protected by a veil of secrecy but every female, well, out they are!!! why is this? Morgan is missing and yet every guy is invisible?
J2K, i too am confused in my own mental game of twister and have a massive migraine now goin’ on due to lack of sleep and a head cold.
btw. hey chad, my typng is at tims, atrociouss and me thoughts make no sence but i am here anywasy. sory to you and J2K, Skyler, Dar, the Moms, Word Girl, Cvilles and such…
According to the crime report on the UVA PD web site, there was only one drunk in public arrest (by UVA police)at JPJ on the eve of Octoer 17th and no missing/stolen report. I know thre were many other reports around UVA that night, but these are the only ones on their site now.
DAILY REPORT #2008-291
10/17/2008
FELONY ELUDING – Jefferson Park Ave. 200801235/47
Reported eluding motorcycle
RPT: 0115 10-17-08 OCC: 0105 10-17-08 to 0109 10-17-08
CASE STATUS: Cleared exceptional
ASSIST AGENCY – UVA Hospital 200801236/37
Paper service for Page County Sheriffs Office
RPT: 0927 10-17-08 OCC: 0927 10-17-08
CASE STATUS: Transferred
NO REPORT TAKEN 200801237
LIQUOR LAW VIOLATION – Seymour Rd. 200801238/6
Arrest made
RPT: 2150 10-17-08 OCC: 2150 10-17-08
CASE STATUS: Cleared by arrest
DRUNK IN PUBLIC – John Paul Jones Arena 200801239/42
Arrest made
RPT: 2148 10-17-08 OCC: 2148 10-17-08
CASE STATUS: Cleared by arrest
Did you move into the early hours of the 18th, after the concert let out?
B
Hi Observer, I don’t have a clue as to how you know that the basketball players have been interviewed and cleared of suspicion.
Without knowing your professional angle and relation to this case, it is hard to believe your word. I am not questioning your integrity, but rather, your access to this information.
I think it is fair to ask you to please reveal how are privy to this information. I tend to think that this is more your opinion based on the fact that you somehow know that they were interviewed and have provided solid alibis. Is it even remotely possible that you simply are not privy to all of the information surrounding this investigation?
Thanks.
Sue- to clarify, and Observer is welcome to address as well, but she never said they were cleared. Miscommunication that has been cleared up.
No missing/stolen purse reports at all. There was a lost purse report on Oct. 18th, but it was reported at 9:30 PM and was at Scott Stadium (football field). There WERE, however, calls for medical assistance at 1:10 am on the 18th at Courtney Dorm and a call at 3:00 am on the 18th for medical assistance at Metcalf Dorm.
ASSIST CITIZEN – Courtney Dorm 200801240/57
Reported citizen needing medical assistance
RPT: 0110 10-18-08 OCC: 0042 10-18-08
CASE STATUS: Suspended
ASSIST CITIZEN – Metcalf Dorm 200801241/32
Reported citizen needing medical assistance
RPT: 0300 10-18-08 OCC: 0224 10-18-08 to 0315 10-18-08
CASE STATUS: Active
DRUNK IN PUBLIC – McCormick Rd. 200801242/32
Arrest made
RPT: 0530 10-18-08 OCC: 0446 10-18-08 to 0500 10-18-08
CASE STATUS: Cleared by arrest
Lol, guys you are suffering from New Year-itis. This was 10/17/09 – 10/18/09
B
Observer – so very glad you’re back. (Scratches to Maggie Magnolia!) I was concerned about the appearance of monopolizing the commentor real estate with my long-winded diatribes. Thanks for balancing them out with a well-thought-out assemblage of the facts/educated Observations. It’s easy for many of us to spin off into the realm of pure speculation, and important that you pop in to ground us when you’re able.
In regard to the BB players, I appreciate your emphatic clarification on these young men being thoroughly vetted by LE and cleared as suspects. The notion of their involvement was not, as you suggested, a dead horse here; rather, it was a zombie horse stumbling about the threads, rearing its withered legs and full of unsightly holes. Way to shoot that sucker to the ground.
And bonus points for pointing out the double-standard in regard to other eye witnesses that night:
“Because the BB players were the last people to have reportedly spoken to MH does not implicate them. [The operative word in that statement is “reportedly”.] In the same vein, because a specific eyewitness, e.g. the limo driver or granny, was the last person to have reportedly seen MH does not imply that the limo driver or granny is complicit in her disappearance.”
As far as the purse is concerned, you spotlighted your posit from quite some time ago:
“The abductor/assailant/perpetrator is headed toward JPJ, stops, convinces Morgan to get into his vehicle … drives directly to the Lannigan RV lot (only feet away), disables her, discards her purse out the vehicle window, and leaves the area with Morgan.”
This scenario certainly stands to reason, to a degree – perhaps a little more so than MH obliviously dropping her purse or it being (rather pointlessly) planted by the theoretical perp, who apparently still retained possession of her camera.
But it still raises a number of questions. I’m hoping you’re able to flesh out this theory based on your experience.
For one, if the a/a/p pulled over to offer MH a ride and she willingly got into the vehicle, why then *immediately* disable her in the obvious vicinity of LE and possible passersby/unexpected witnesses – it *was* Saturday night at the biggest venue complex in town. And, it would had to have been immediate, as (timing-wise) the purse likely hit the ground dislodging the battery and cover from her phone, shutting it down at 9:30, right when she disappeared. (I’m in agreement that the battery was likely mashed into the dirt and overlooked on Sunday morning rather than somewhere else.)
Further, if she got into the vehicle of her own volition – and it appears more probable than not that she did – than why not drive away from all of the activity/security and people before disabling her and tossing her belongings? Why lose control of her purse and its contents at all, for that matter? Was the a/a/p driving around with gloves on in mid-October, just waiting to abscond with someone? Wouldn’t this person be putting themselves at significant risk of exposure to attack a noticeable, able-bodied woman in his passenger seat on the side of a road bordering several parking lots, rip her purse away from her with his (assumed) bare hands, and hurl it out the window, giving no thought to his prints/DNA remaining on the discarded items? (as those moves would definitely indicate ill intent on the a/a/p’s part)
Just seems like a stupid, insane choice.
And, if that’s who we’re dealing with – a deranged half-wit – than why LE’s seeming lack of concern (in regard to MH’s victimization) for the female public in Cville?
Thanks again for your input, O.
J2k, unless I missed it, I did not see anywhere in Observer’s post that any bball player has been cleared.
B
I strongly agree that the location of the purse is relevant. It is reports from LE that seem to suggest that is was found where it was because she had the dropsies. If we consider that unlikely, then scenarios I can see include:
a. someone (whether a stranger or someone she was acquainted with) headed towards JPJ picks her up and goes straight to that lot and disables her and immediately discards the purse, (as suggested by observer)
b. the purse was planted later, (agree with observer that this is unlikely for a whole host of reasons, including that it would have been risky)
c. someone she had just spoken or argued with or been brushed off by pulled up in a car, and said something like “okay baby, i’m sorry, you made your point, get in and stay warm until the concert is over; i’ll go park and wait with you” and then drives back to the lot and continues with scenario a
what options are missing?
fish: “it seems that every male involved in Morgan’s case is protected by a veil of secrecy but every female, well, out they are!!! why is this? Morgan is missing and yet every guy is invisible?”
observer: RE: the BB players:”Not to beat this proverbial dead horse yet again, I repeat: the BB players–specifically and including Jamil Tucker–are not suspects in the MH disappearance. LE has thoroughly and separately interviewed each of the BB players, including Tucker, and corroborated the accounts given.”
Blink: Comment by Blink — January 6, 2010 @ 12:47 pm
“Observer, I neglected to mention to you that you are the first individual to actually acknowledge that Tucker was indeed one of the basketball players who was interviewed by LE.
Would you be able to confirm if Assane was the other, and if it was in the presence of an interpreter or counsel?”
B
observer: “While that could indeed have occurred, it may be worth considering this scenario: Morgan left JPJ. She walked through the UHall parking, and into the Lannigan Field RV lot–-all with purse in hand (or, on her back if it’s a type of “backpack-purse”).”
fish: “so just when was Morgan Dana Harrington, walking with the bbplayers? before UHall or did they pick her up after UHall and did LE ask ‘jtuck’, to corroborate WHAT or are we just to know that LE questioned him about stuff?
also, if we are to believe that ‘jtuck’, was interviewed and if you know this than how is it that you know not one other name? if he was not the interviewed by LE, i would suspect he could be pretty pizzd’ at you for falsely outtin’ him and not his team mates that may or may not been with him in any lot(UVA). i would be mad at you anyway for droppin’ my name from your lips. i would even be mad at my mother, cousin, sister or auntie for doing this!
also, not to be picking on anyone but if Morgan was in that bad of condition and outta control, shame on her friends! but atleast she provided them a ride, right!!!!!
shame also on UVA’s part, why did Morgan get a pass on being outta control that night? i thought that security, police or even a ticket-taker would take their jobs a tiny bit more seriously, that letting a 120 pounder wander their campus, out of control? i am just questioning this?
please, where was the village that night?
blink, forgot to tell you, i am right there with you on your response to 1774. where was the arrest?
DAILY REPORT #2008-291
10/17/2008
FELONY ELUDING – Jefferson Park Ave. 200801235/47
Reported eluding motorcycle
RPT: 0115 10-17-08 OCC: 0105 10-17-08 to 0109 10-17-08
CASE STATUS: Cleared exceptional
ASSIST AGENCY – UVA Hospital 200801236/37
Paper service for Page County Sheriffs Office
RPT: 0927 10-17-08 OCC: 0927 10-17-08
CASE STATUS: Transferred
NO REPORT TAKEN 200801237
LIQUOR LAW VIOLATION – Seymour Rd. 200801238/6
Arrest made
RPT: 2150 10-17-08 OCC: 2150 10-17-08
CASE STATUS: Cleared by arrest
DRUNK IN PUBLIC – John Paul Jones Arena 200801239/42
Arrest made
RPT: 2148 10-17-08 OCC: 2148 10-17-08
CASE STATUS: Cleared by arrest
DAILY REPORT #2008-292
10/18/2008
ASSIST CITIZEN – Courtney Dorm 200801240/57
Reported citizen needing medical assistance
RPT: 0110 10-18-08 OCC: 0042 10-18-08
CASE STATUS: Suspended
ASSIST CITIZEN – Metcalf Dorm 200801241/32
Reported citizen needing medical assistance
RPT: 0300 10-18-08 OCC: 0224 10-18-08 to 0315 10-18-08
CASE STATUS: Active
DRUNK IN PUBLIC – McCormick Rd. 200801242/32
Arrest made
RPT: 0530 10-18-08 OCC: 0446 10-18-08 to 0500 10-18-08
CASE STATUS: Cleared by arrest
Question and, this may have been addressed already, I am at work and can not check back. Why are both incidents of purses now gone? On the 18th the report of Morgan’s purse being found is now gone too.
RN.
Wrong Year
B
Blink — my reaction to Observer’s post of earlier today is that it is an excellent overview of the likely facts and plausible scenarios with respect to Morgan’s disappearance. It does not rely on the unlikely or overly-imaginative turn of events.
There is a lot of concern among the posters because of the dearth of information on this matter; I share the frustration, but think that may be attributable to a couple of things: police know more than we do, which is wholly appropriate; or police don’t have as many leads as we wish because the BB players and friends are dead ends (as Observer describes above).
Many of the things that are being discussed and analyzed on this board are interesting, and may play a part in her disappearance, but I think are largely red herrings. Observer’s post brings us back to a more solid set of facts that I find credible.
I completely agree, and I have the utmost respect for Observer. My issue, and I have shared this with O, is that there is conflicting information within the own investigating agencies of this case.
In my experience ,when that happens, it means there is a conflict in theory or strategy somewhere, and that is frightening to me.
B
B
Hi all,
Just want to say thank you guys for your kind words regarding my situation many moons ago. I have GOT to move over to the new thread cause this one takes so long to load at work!
I do want to say that it is an honor to be on this board with every single one of you. Ya’ll are the very best and it makes me feel good to know there are people like you out there, all over the world!
See ya on the new thread.
Re: wanttohelp, 1/6, 11:46am:
I could not agree more with you/other posters who are outraged by anyone, regardless of position, who might imply that MH’s disappearance is her fault.
MH did not choose her fate that evening. Her alleged drinking that evening did one thing and one thing only: made it easier for the individual who perpetrated this crime to commit evil, either by intent or ill fate.
This is tantamount to a detective I once worked with who opined that the victim of a particular sexual assault “asked for it” by virtue of the way she was dressed on the evening she was assaulted.
Let us say that I shared with him, with vehemence and passion, my thoughts on that perspective. We never exchanged words about it again, so I might assume my feelings were quite clear.
To your other point, re: police presence: You indicated that the “…the campus police need to take a much more pro-active role in teaching students about personal safety and self-protection.”
The UVAPD–like most large campus police departments–takes every measure possible to ensure the safety and security of the students they are charged with protecting. Their attention is not focused merely on maintaining building security and directing traffic during major athletic events.
To wit: Please see the two links below, the first one for the myriad resources made availble by the UVAPD to students, faculty, and staff, with particular emphasis on educational seminars and rape aggression defense (“RAD”) classes. [Friends of mine were some of the RAD instructors. I remind readers again, no, I am not now nor have ever been an employee of the UVAPD.]
http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/resources.html
and the second link on crime prevention. [Click on any of the links under "Safety Tips", inc. "Residence Safety", "Campus Safety", and "When Walking Alone". The second item listed under "When Walking Alone" begins with "Trust your instincts."]
http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/prevention.html#Walking
I offer the above information and links to address concerns that the UVAPD has been remiss in their attempts to protect the students, faculty, and staff at UVA.
B – (re: your comments on #1773)
Thanks for the insight. I too wonder why it has not been acknowledged that MH was asked to leave the arena – or not allowed back in – due to her visible impairment/intoxication. I can only venture to guess that the VSP asked UVA for the same gag-yourself courtesy it solicited from everyone else involved in this investigation.
If anything, MH’s violation of their rules regarding underage/excessive alcohol consumption would go a long way toward absolving UVA/JPJ security from the public’s perception that the poor girl simply made a wrong turn, ending up outside, and was mercilessly turned away at the door to face the proverbial wolves on a cold, wet night due to some draconian policy on re-entry.
That said, isn’t VSP heading the investigation? Why would UVA’s internal preconceptions about MH’s “impaired” status upon arrival (and possible ejection) have a significant impact on the current investigation?
I regard to the report of a stolen purse that night, are you saying that either A) MH’s purse was stolen (possibly unrelated to her disappearance – just some punk) and *that* is why it ended up scattered and stripped of cash(?) in the lot?
Or B) That MH purposely dropped her purse in a hidden area so she could claim it was missing from her car and gain entry (as you previously speculated in re: #1725)?
As her car was supposedly in the UHall lot – diagonally across from the RV lot, she wouldn’t have needed “a ride” to her car (thereby giving someone the chance to leave the area with her), and I’m not understanding what her plan would be once she got to her locked-up coup. She’d have no ID on her, and there’d be no sign of forced entry. Do you think she would have assumed LE would break into a car at her request?
Just trying to work out these theories… rather than, um, work. (This case/blog is seriously reducing my productivity.)
It is my understanding that VSP is heading the investigation and her case does show as transferred on the UVA PD site.
I have no information as to whether that was a request by UVA or a jurisdictional issue at the behest of VSP.
WRT the purse stolen report, I have no idea for sure if it is connected. I am suggesting a look at the incident report will certainly tell us. I do not know where you are getting confirmation that Morgan’s car was parked in Uhall, I have not seen it confirmed whatsoever where her car was parked.
If I missed that, my apollies and I will reach for the thinking goblet. My point is, we have a complaint of a purse and content stolen from a car parked in THE PARK called at the exact moment (ish) that Morgan’s battery is dead. No vehicular break in. The call is suspended.
Here’s the thing , the PARK is noted as a 20 minute round trip accessibility on the UVA site, the occurrance below:
10/17/2009
LARCENY FROM VEHICLE – The Park 200901369/22
Reported purse and contents stolen from vehicle
RPT: 2130 10-17-09 OCC: 1738 10-17-09 to 1755 10-17-09
It states the theft occurs between 5:38 PM and 5:55PM. Remember that Dan dropped the girls off and parked the car? That is the only lot far enough away that would need for him to do that and the range is correct. Who gives a range of when it was stolen? A person making an accusation as to who stole it and their opportunity to do so.
Was she stating her friends had access to the car during that time and it was stolen to get them out of the arena and hand over her keys and she was intercepted by someone she knew on the bridge intended to meet the PD at the car?
Le asks if anyone loaned Morgan their phone while she was outside the arena.. So they are stating there is a reason to believe she borrowed one prior to her last sighting at 9:35, if to be believed. Blue phone?
Morgan’s purse appears in the Cage Lot the next morning “insides strewn about” with no battery, which was not recovered and removed the prior evening at the same time of a stolen purse report.
If someone could dispel the connection and put me out of my misery I would be forever grateful. It is my nemisis.
I say this is Morgan trying to get into her car and locate her purse in a crisis.
B
“J2k, unless I missed it, I did not see anywhere in Observer’s post that any bball player has been cleared.” ~B
B – I took the following submission from Observer to mean that the BB players had indeed been cleared (which I equate to “not suspects,” though, I could certainly be misreading her semantics in that regard):
“RE: the BB players: Not to beat this proverbial dead horse yet again, I repeat: the BB players–specifically and including Jamil Tucker–are not suspects in the MH disappearance. LE has thoroughly and separately interviewed each of the BB players, including Tucker, and corroborated the accounts given.”
How else could one take this? We also have been told there are currently no POIs, so this would make them simply eye witnesses, no?
From Observer:
Comment from Observer: ” RE: the BB players: Not to beat this proverbial dead horse yet again, I repeat: the BB players–specifically and including Jamil Tucker–are not suspects in the MH disappearance. LE has thoroughly and separately interviewed each of the BB players, including Tucker, and corroborated the accounts given.”
There are 3 classifications in LE. One is either:
1. witness
2. suspect
3. victim
Observer is correct, there is no known POI/Suspect.
A quote from a friend of mine with 30 years in criminal profiling for the FBI: My suspect learns he is my suspect when I reach for cuffs in one hand, and the miranda in the other.
Now, in no way does that mean that is the case here, I am just simply suggesting that when we are talking about an ongoing case and preserving a successful prosecution, there are reasons for not stating publicly whether or not your investigation is leading you towards the same individual.
Lastly, both UVA AND VSP has the ability to say “WE have cleared the UVA bball players of any involvement directly or indirectly in the disappearance of Morgan Harrington, they are among many witnesses that have provided information useful to the investigation” .
They are NOT suspects.
They have been interviewed thoroughly.
They have been interviewed separately and their accounts corroborated. ( this is an important piece of information)
One of those interviewed was Jamil Tucker, recently released from the team alleging academic reasons.
The above are true and correct statements. Other than that, we have no idea what their status is until notified differently.
But I am abundantly cautious on the use of the word cleared in the context of an investigation. They have not been cleared.
B
Sorry Blink. On the UVA PD’s website, to get the report for the night of October 17, 2009 apparently you have to search under the year 2010. When I did the search under Oct. 17, 2009, the previous year came up.
Here is the correct report.
LARCENY FROM VEHICLE – The Park 200901369/22
Reported purse and contents stolen from vehicle
RPT: 2130 10-17-09 OCC: 1738 10-17-09 to 1755 10-17-09
CASE STATUS: Suspended
PROPERTY FOUND – Cage Parking Lot 200901379/45
Reported purse found
RPT: 0819 10-18-09 OCC: 0800 10-18-09
CASE STATUS: Active
There were five arrests at JPJ that night and one assault.
The report of Morgan’s disappearance was logged in at 1:40 PM.
MISSING PERSON – John Paul Jones Arena 200901381/45
Report of missing Virginia Tech student
RPT: 1340 10-18-09 OCC: 2048 10-18-09
CASE STATUS: Transferred
Yes, all 5 of those were alcohol related, they just all of a sudden do not say it.
We looked it up through an online source that has since also been changed.
B
RN.
Wrong Year
B
Oops still can’t decide what year it is and what year it was.
But, I think I’ll use the blonde card on this one!
In response to #1789, thank-you for your response and thanks for posting
those links to the UVAPD. I mean absolutely no disrespect to you or to your incredible body of knowledge.
That being said, the RAD classes sound great, in theory,–however, unless they dovetail these classes with the University’s orientation, I doubt many college students are going to sign up for a 12 hour safety class! No mention is made on the website as to how many times per year these classes are held, cost or when they are held. I just wonder how practical this type of learning situation would be for a college student. (But now that I am aware of these types of classes, I will definitely find something similar for my own daughter to attend.)
I also read through the safety tips, again it is very nice that they have taken the time to post these tips on the website–interesting that there is no mention about the dangers of hitchhiking (only a warning about picking up hitchhikers), or how alcohol can impair a person’s ability to protect themselves.
Again, it is great that the PD is taking those steps, just disheartening that it seems like such a tiny piece of what is needed.
Retrospective vision is always 20/20 of course, I just so wish there could have been an active police presence at that concert, safeguarding, guiding and educating the students. Sometimes that age group needs to be protected from their own naivete and impetuousness.
B – (re: #1790/location of MH’s car)
“WRT the purse stolen report, I have no idea for sure if it is connected. I am suggesting a look at the incident report will certainly tell us.”
You prolly know this, but just puttin’ it out there:
If anyone local (or via fax) can contact UVA PD and obtain/file an OPRA (Open Public Records Act) request, they will release the detailed incident report in question, with any personal info redacted.
B (to J2K): “I do not know where you are getting confirmation that Morgan’s car was parked in Uhall, I have not seen it confirmed whatsoever where her car was parked.
If I missed that, my apollies and I will reach for the thinking goblet. My point is, we have a complaint of a purse and content stolen from a car parked in THE PARK called at the exact moment (ish) that Morgan’s battery is dead. No vehicular break in. The call is suspended. …”
Certainly an intriguing coincidence, B. But, while not confirmed, I got the UHall-lot location of MH’s car during the show from Observer:
Comment by Observer — November 12, 2009 @ 3:43 pm (her first post!)
“…
1. Keys – One of Morgan’s friends drove Morgan’s car from Harrisonburg to Charlottesville. It is easy to assume that this friend held on to the keys when the group arrived at JPJ. This is why, when Morgan left the arena, she was unable to get into her car parked in the adjacent UHall parking lot. …”
I’ll leave it to Observer to clear up whether the lot she noted is speculation or fact.
(And stop hogging the Thinking Goblet!)
Lol, yes, I am aware and I put someone on it, but thank you just the same.
Your right, Observer is up at bat! I missed the confirmation it was parked at Uhall and it is obviously very important..
(Blink passes goblet sheepishly)
B
B, et al – (follow up to OPRA request suggestion for incident report)
Oop. Public records requests/acts vary from state to state. In Virginia, it’s referred to as the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), and it, of course, covers UVA.
From http://www.virginia.edu/foia/records.html:
How to Request Records from the University of Virginia
1. You may request records by U.S. Mail, fax, or e-mail, in person, or over the phone. FOIA does not require that your request be in writing, nor do you need to specifically state that you are requesting records under FOIA.
2. From a practical perspective, putting your request in writing may be helpful to both you and the person receiving your request. This allows you to create a record of your request. It also gives us a clear statement of what records you are requesting, so that there is no misunderstanding over an oral request. However, we cannot refuse to respond to your FOIA request, if you elect to not put it in writing.
3. Your request must identify the records you are seeking with “reasonable specificity.” This is a common-sense standard. It does not refer to or limit the volume or number of records that you are requesting; instead, it requires that you be specific enough so that we can identify and locate the records that you are seeking.
Your request must ask for existing records or documents. FOIA gives you a right to inspect or copy records; it does not apply to a situation where you are asking general questions about the work of the University of Virginia, nor does it require the University of Virginia to create a record that does not exist.
4. For example, if you are requesting records maintained in an Excel database, you may elect to receive those records electronically, via e-mail or on a computer disk, or to receive a printed copy of those records.
5. You may choose to receive electronic records in any format used by the University of Virginia in the regular course of business.
If we have questions about your request, please cooperate with staff’s efforts to clarify the type of records that you are seeking, or to attempt to reach a reasonable agreement about a response to a large request. Making a FOIA request is not an adversarial process, but we may need to discuss your request with you to ensure that we understand what records you are seeking.
6. To request records please contact Carol Wood or Elizabeth Wilkerson at the Office of Public Affairs:
Fontaine Research Park
400 Ray C. Hunt Drive
Second Floor
P.O. Box 400229
Charlottesville, VA 22904
Phone: 434-924-1400
Fax: 434-924-0938
Email:Carol Wood, Assistant Vice President for Public Affairs
cwood@virginia.edu
Email:Elizabeth Wilkerson, Special Projects Officer in Public Affairs
ewilkerson@virginia.edu
B – (re: 1793)
Must. Read. Before. Posting.
[J2K grabs Goblet from B and swigs with a wince]
Uhoh was that to me, or about me?
(It’s Observer’s Mendozza, I swiped it, try not to call attention to your *hiccup* self. )
blink — I don’t see how “UVA” could clear anyone of anything. UVA is not a police department, does not know what happened to MH (a non-student) and has no ability or right to announce who is or is not cleared IMO. VSP could do that — though I don’t think they do that very often as it would seem counterproductive. I know they did it with the friends, but I have to suspect Dr. H (or maybe one of the friends’ dad who has some sway in the VSP) asked them specifically to do that given the beating they were taking on the boards after the whooping it up pictures came out.
B,
To be cleared as a suspect do you first have to be named a suspect? I know no one up until this point has been named a suspect. IMO I believe that Ms Gellar is confident that the BB player/players would not comment on this case bc their atty told them not to. I believe their non-statement makes quiet a statement.
It is highly unusual for a person to be publicly or in interview declared a suspect and then cleared.
Being declared a suspect really protects and puts the subject on notice so that he/she can invoke their right to counsel at any time.
B