Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Kaine Horman Points A Finger Directly At Terri Horman
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“I believe respondent (Terri) is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010”
The grim words of Kaine Horman as they appeared in the restraining order filed against his estranged wife, Terri Moulton Horman, were unsealed yesterday.
It was the start of developments beginning to weave a portrait of Terri Horman, from the eyes of her husband and Kyron Horman’s biological Mother, Desiree Young.
“I thought the marriage was doing pretty well,” Kaine Horman said during a one-on-one interview with The Oregonian, “until we had our daughter, Kiara.”
Declining to elaborate, rumors of Terri Horman suffering from bouts of post partum depression following the birth of the couples 19 month old daughter have been swirling since the case began.
Yesterday’s press conference with Kyron’s parents, Kaine and Desiree left no doubt they believe Terri is involved with Kyron’s disappearance, and confirmed what has been reported exclusively on blinkoncrime.com previously:Terri Horman failed both polygraph tests administered during the investigation.
“I have known Terri a long time, and I know she is lying.” She went on to say she had her suspicions from the onset of the phone call she received alerting her that Kyron was missing.
Curiously, famed Portland attorney Stephen Houze, retained by Terri Horman June 28th, known for his Public*Relations*Prowess, would not comment on the divorce, custody, or criminal investigation involving his client.
Although Terri Horman had 5 days to respond to object to the restraining order which denies her any visitation with the couples daughter, there was no response filed on her behalf in family court.
It is this editors opinion that was a calculated move on her part NOT to have to answer to the allegations of Kaine’s petition which could then be used against her in a criminal proceeding.
Last evening, an amendment was filed to the restraining order to force Terri Horman from the marital residence, which was purchased in Kaine Horman’s name in December 2006.
Speaking to blinkoncrime.com on the condition of anonymity, sources inside the investigation have confirmed that the detectives sting on the grounds of the Horman home, where a landscaper believed to have been in a romantic relationship with Terri Horman requested $10,000 for an alleged murder for hire plot, may have impeded the investigation.
“The climate was one where their hand was forced. They had the guy saying one thing, and when they said “prove it”, they felt they would be arresting her on at least the solicitation charge.
Did it backfire? Uh, yes, in a way, because for one– nobody gets paid ten grand for killing a live guy.. For two, she did not flinch, and between the two of them at the time she called 911, she looked more credible. It was an uncomfortable situation for detectives to have to explain to the patrol.
I think they are desperate to resolve this case, but I do not think Terri will be the first to be arrested, I think the landscaper may be arrested tomorrow. They are going to need a pretty solid case to get him to flip if she was involved, which it looks clear that she was. Our prosecutors use a grand jury in lieu of a preliminary hearing almost, so I would bet that is going on behind the scenes..”
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I hope this doesn’t seem a silly question, but if Houze is indeed working up a mental health defense, wouldn’t he have a more difficult time proving it if there was evidence of motive and premeditation? It wouldn’t be as though she snapped one morning and did something crazy, right?
I saw a comedian once who joked that breaking into someone’s house and doing all their ironing was really the only crime that was truly insane! I hope that helps you all crack a smile today.
Blink,
I’ve been a long time lurker but up until today, have never posted. First of all, God bless you for all that you do!
After scouring every detail of this case, I am saddened to see that TH has not cracked in some way. I am truly starting to think she believes her own story. As embaressed as I am to put this in print, my sister is, in my opinion, a narcissist. TH reminds me of my sister in so many ways. Like TH, my sister is a SAHM, has her own, younger child, spends her days shopping, hitting the gym, etc. Her entire world revolves around her other child. She see’s the step-child as a burden and though from the outside, looking in, they appear to be the perfect family, that is not the case at all. The step child is treated so differently from her “baby”. It’s to the point now, that the “baby” even treats the step child poorly. To look at her FB pictures and read her FB posts, you would almost be envious of the perfect family life they appear to have. My point is, no matter what is said to my sister about her behavior towards this child, she whole-heartedly believes the problem lies within the child, not her self. She refuses to discuss the option of the child living with her bio-mom because of course she feels she can “fix” the child and bio-mom is just as “troubled” as the child. None of the grandparents are allowed to be involved in any of the childrens lives because they spoke up and told my sister she was wrong. Instead of re-evaluating her self, she cut them off and now is convinced they are all “troubled” as well. It’s a horribly sad situation and my heart breaks for this child, daily. Anyway, my point here is that knowing my sister they way I do, and seeing the similarities in TH, I firmly beleive TH truly beleives she has done no wrong, she is the victim, and she is smarter than everyone involved. She is not going to help LE or the family with anything, because again, in her mind, she has everything under control…just the way she likes it. Meanwhile, poor Kyron has fallen victim to her devious ways and that is the last thought on her mind.
I pray for a happy outcome to this story. Ky reminds me so much of my son when he was that age. Hadn’t quite grown into hinmself yet. Shy and timid and still leaning on mom. I think of Ky all day long and pray for him each night and every morning. Please let this one turn out different.
Keep doing what you do Blink! Love the site!
IMO the photos are the “proof” that Kiara wasn’t with TMH at school on the fateful day. Did you notice that the video of the bridge report that Ky gave had a wiggle in the middle and then you see Kiara moving around in front of the camera? How about the picture of TMH teaching the plant class with Kiara on her lap? It doesn’t appear that she could go to the school without her attention magnet. However, it was TMH’s choices of photos that she uploaded on FB so who knows if she deleted the ones with Kiara. Too bad she didn’t take the time to crop those of Kyron and the exhibit with the unknowns in the background. Those are the places I look for clues.
Blink, If in fact Terri has a problem with depression, if she was involved with the disappearance of Ky, if she has lost her husband, her child and her home, what are the chances that she might commit suicide and take all her secrets with her?
Ah, I took a “day off” form here and the story yesterday and wow, a lot happened, a lot of posts to read.
First, I will say that those interviews were heartbreaking. I think that their initial silence and now coming out into the pulic has actually worked in their favor in getting the pulic so interested and invested in this case.
Second, most of these posts are about TH and KH and opinions about the two. I just have to give my 2 cents. Firstly, I don’t fault KH. He married her, they obviously had their own reasons for being together. They were intwined together and shared a home, a life and children, you want to see the best in your partner. Not to mention when having a partner/friend/family member that is suffering from mental health issues/drug addiction et al., they don’t always accept your help. KH can’t be blamed for TH’s lack of “progress.” Based on the interviews and KH stating that things “got bad” (not a direct quote) after Kiara, I still think perhaps TH felt their relationship was in jeapordy, and obviously having no control, this is how she sought control. I also noticed the the house was solely in KH’s name, another factor in what I believe to be TH’s very conscious efforts of maintaining her own security. Additionally, I will say that I still feel strongly that TH suffers from some sort of personality disorder which is nearly impossible for people to diagnose and treat because people with a PD don’t believe ANYTHING is wrong with them. It is usually after those suffering from a PD get into trouble that they get a diagnosis. I am convinced (through my own counseling) that my mother has a PD and she always points the finger elsewhere, she is always the victim, she can’t let any wrongs go. She has empathy for others but it’s more of a show, to talk about how something affects her or to prove how “compassionate” she is. To the outside world she is this wonderful and caring person, but behind closed doors she is spiteful, sefl-centered, depressed, ego-centric (always spending money on herself, talking about her accomplishments, etc.)…anyway, I am not a clinician, but I see some real parallels here. My mother is, unfortunately, not the only person I know that suffers from a PD also. The fact is, (from my experience!), those that are close to someone with a PD suffer most, always walking on eggshells, not everyone sees it, so it’s incredibly difficult to deal with. And you often feel like you are the crazy one, because at times the person seems so normal and everything gets twisted back to you. So, it’s just like being forced to play a game where the rules are always changing. I have children and even with my children my mother is “crazy,” she favors whoever like her best that day and makes snide remarks and sweeping generalizations about the ones that “reject” her. And personally, whenever I have tried to “confront” my mother there is always an excuse, her hormones, work…yada, yada, and I don’t understand, I am attacking her, so, I just emotionally vacate, which could also account for KH’s demeanor. Maybe it’s in his DNA or maybe it’s also that he’s had to emotionally shut down to deal with her. Anyway, if that’s the case KH’s actions don’t surprise me at all. Besides, who would dream that someone you loved and you believed loved you would do something like this?! KH is the victim of TH here. No one has to like the guy, but I certainly feel for him and can’t imagine how both him and DY feel at this time.
The other thing I will say is, I agree with many that feel irritated by the sudden “empathy” for TH based on a belief that this could have to do with PPD. Perhaps she suffered from this but I think her actions suggest this was not a singlular mental break down, she has been plotting for months! And it’s like with domestic violence, people want to blame such behavior on drugs, alchohol and other problems, but most people do not exhibit violent patterns; people with power and control issues do. I think this is the case here. If TH hadn’t have been plotting a MFH set-up 7 months ago, maybe I’d feel a little more for her. But, like many fellow posters have said, there’s just no excuse! I think that TH is self-important and was feeling threatened and acted consciously. But I also think it’s a moot issue, it’s not like she is going to walk into court and say “I had PPD, it wasn’t my fault,” and a judge and jury is going to say, “Oh, ok, well, get some treatment and hope you feel better soon.” No, I think that TH has proven that she is a threat and is willing to do the unthinkable to “save” herself. That formula never works.
Lastly, I am not discounting that TH needs help or needed help, or that there weren’t factors in her life that led to her decision. But ultimately it was her choices, including not to find a more viable solution to her problem. I just hope that the part of her that has functioned in society, has cared for children, has some respect for herself will come through and help LE to find Kyron. I am just afraid that she is so far into this and her own denial she doesn’t believe that she need to or feels like she can’t now, as though just denying it long enough will prove her innocence. Unfortunately, it just doesn’t work that way. The only way out of this mess for TH is to tell the truth and I surely hope that she does.
I apologize if this has already been covered, but I know that they’ve confiscated her car twice to search it. Have they confiscated her computer yet, or searched the family residence? Can they do that before TH is officially a suspect? Thanks!
For all of the speculation here about the possibility of PPD, or other form of psychosis, being a factor in TH’s antisocial behavior, if she is in fact involved in step-son’s disappearance, please keep in mind the simple fact that with both Kaine and Kyron out of the picture, she would be free of those demanding relationships, and, in all likelihood, be entitled to all of her and Kaine’s joint assets, as well as Kaine’s individual assets; she and Kiara would undoubtedly be beneficiaries of Kaine’s company, and any other, life insurance policy/plicicies and retirement benefits. This is a woman with a known history of lying and manipulative behavior — good grief, she was able to get her second husband to adopt her son, continue to pay child support long after they were divorced even though he hasn’t seen his adopted son for six or seven years!
According to The Oregonian article of June 20th, (the one with admittedly false information about Terri’s purported long-term friendship with Desire), “Terri was thrilled when Kiara was born in December 2008. Tarver (Terri’s first husband, and father of her son James) said she had always wanted a girl. Terri’s enthusiasm spilled onto her Facebook page, which has dozens of photos of the cherub-faced carrot-topped girl with blue eyes. She also flooded Tarver and other acquaintances with photos and e-mail updates of the baby’s progress.
“He thought that was unusual because he wasn’t close to her family.”
OK, maybe this was Terri’s way of putting up a good front to hide her PPD, but it would seem to have taken quite a bit of energy and investment in her role as Kiara’s mother, which I’m not sure would be typical of someone with depression. Also, sending pictures and updates of your new family to an ex-husband strikes me as pretty vain and insensitive. Perhaps it was just an oversight that he was on her e-mail list, but it could also fit with a picture of someone who is unusually self-absorbed.
Mme. C
Hi Blink
I’m re-posting a post on Hinkymeter. Just food for thought:
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/07/08/kyron-horman-case-desiree-says-about-terri-i-know-shes-lying/#comment-46690
Major Depression, psychosis?
Post-partum psychosis Some women with post-partum depression develop psychosis. Psychosis causes the woman to lose touch with reality. It takes place in combination with an underlying psychiatric disorder, such as bipolar affective disorder, schizophrenia, or major depression. In some women, a part-partum psychosis is the only psychotic episode they will ever experience, but, for others, it is just the first indication of a psychiatric disorder. Only 1 to 2 women per 1,000 births develop post-partum psychosis.[1]It is extremely rare, though often treatable. However, much media coverage of post-partum depression has focused on psychosis, especially following the Andrea Yatescase.
h ttp://www.lumrix.com/medical/psychiatry/postpartum_depression.html
Relationship Between Personality and Post Partum Mood Disorder Research appearing in the August 2007 issue of Comprehensive Psychiatry revealed that women with Avoidant, Dependent, and Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorders are more likely to experience post-partum major major depression (PPMD).
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2186167/relationship_between_personality_and.html
Previous Research on Depression and Personality Disorders
Earlier studies have shown an association between personality disorders and major depression (Brieger 2003, Farabaugh 2004) More specifically, Avoidant, Dependent, and Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorders were the axis II diagnoses most commonly associated with depression (Farabaugh 2004, Rossi 2001).
Although this new study on PPMD had a relatively small sample size, the data provides more specific information on the relationship between personality disorders and PPMD, and may help in the early identification and treatment of women who are at increased risk of developing post-partum depression (Akmana 2007).
http://sites.google.com/site/psychologyprofonline/personalitydisordersandpostpartumdepress
http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/personality_disorders_and_ppmd
Re: a PPD or any other type of “mental state”-based defense, if I were a juror it would be difficult to sell me on that because, based upon the facts of which I am aware from media reports, Terri seemed perfectly able to look after Kiara’s well-being. Was she able to function at normal capacity for one child but not for the other? I would have trouble accepting that, especially since Kyron was the older of the two children and theoretically would require less hands-on care from his parents. At this point, from where I’m standing Terri Horman is in an indefensible position and would be very smart to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in an attempt to bargain for a lighter sentence. It is really her only hope.
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/08/kaine-horman-kyrons-stepmom-suffered-post-partum-depression/
From this link concerning Terri’s PPD: “Horman said he’s not sure what type of medication his wife was taking or when she stopped taking it. ‘I was just supposed to watch her closely for a six-month period, which I did do.’”
I’d say “watching her closely” should have included knowing what meds she’d been prescribed and noting when she stopped taking them. Not to blame Horman or excuse Terri; I’m just saying that I can imagine how hard it must have been to be suffering already with the PPD and then having to deal, on top of that, with a partner who is that disconnected from my suffering. I can imagine the pull to turn to a sympathetic someone outside of the marriage for comfort. I think things just really spun out of control for Terri, and I just feel badly for this whole family all the way around.
Hoping, as always, this sweet child is found alive and Desiree gets custody of her son.
[Sorry--prior post should read "feel bad"--not "badly."]
Why do so many people think Terri can be convinced to “tell what she knows”? She is under suspicion–for something–and has hired a good attorney to defend her. The innocent, unless they’re idiots, do just that in her situation. And then they keep their mouths shut. Yes, even if they’re innocent; that’s what they’ll be paying the atty. the big bucks for. To know what to say, when, and to whom. Especially when they’ve already been convicted by the public, including some of their family.
Now, Mother Theresa, maybe she’d talk.
What if Terri were innocent? She has 2 other children to consider. If she were innocent, she might have a hope of someday getting to parent or visit them. AND, if she is guilty, and the big-bucks atty. gets her out of this, then she still might have a chance of getting back with her 2 other kids. And with Kyron, if he’s still alive.
Also, suppose she didn’t disappear K, but was told about it after the fact and was told (and believes) that he’s dead. Why talk then? She still has to defend herself now because of all that has occurred.
I have no faith that TH will be talking anytime soon.
I am going to do as Blink asked…to send love and supportive thoughts to this family today.
We, across the US, have adpoted Kyron and we want nothing but the best for him and his family. We have just fallen in love with this little boy and we pray that he will be returned to you safely and quickly. May your faith continue to comfort you.
I am not completely sold on PPD- Terri seems to be reasonable about not implicating herself in hiring a hitman as well as any association with Kyron’s disappearance. Andrea Yates didn’t hide behind attorneys or lies she called LE to report what she’d done- The fact that Terri is protecting herself right now leads me to believe she is mentally healthy, but maybe not stable. I believe Kiara’s whereabouts on June 4th are key to this investigation. Do you think LE knows where she was Blink?
I am thinking now, that James is the key. I believe strongly that he has no involvement/knowledge of Kyrons disappearance yet I find it puzzling that after many years he was sent to live w/grandpparents then bio-dad and then have a scheduled visit with Mom the day after Kyron should have been with his Mom for the weekend without any overlap. This gives Terry a rock solid alibi for James (James was camping w/family). I believe it is a electronic media device (phone, computer, etc) that most kids his age carry with them that she utilized/s when James was at school, friends, sleep, etc. I do not think that LE would think to look through his gadgetry since he was not/had not been there for quite awhile. Also, Terri is not cracking, like she is waiting for someone. Could it be that she made contact with the accompliance through James’s elec. media? The last visit we know of ended abruptly.
Wow, I know it’s crazy to say, since in the beginning we were all frustrated by the lack of information coming out; but now the interviews are coming fast and furious and I can’t keep up!
Is there some way we can arrange a list of known facts? Just in searching a few sites, I know there is no way I can possibly read each and every interview!
H. Olsen: you asked “Have they confiscated her computer yet”.
Unless she is voluntarily turning over her personal belongings, cars titled in her name, computer, cell phone, LE must have a search warrant. It’s not hard to get one. So, that’s for LE to know and us to find out. Or Blink to tell us from her “sources”.
For 30+ years I have followed missing person cases hoping we can develop systems/procedures that create a dragnet using every resource we have to bring the missing home safely. As I read this article I am struck by the contrast between the investigation for Kyron Horman and Alisa Meier. Granted the Portland officials got a late start and the weather was horrible but I can’t get past the way NO ONE stood up like the police chief in the tiny hamlet of Louisana Missouri during those first hours. Maybe it was because he has children the same age? Maybe it was because he just used his common sense and understood the enormity of the task and he set in motion very avenue of help he could? The parents of tiny Alisa were reeling and it was Grandpa who took center stage in front of media cameras to implore everyone to help locate his little granddaughter. He spoke directly into the camera and asked the person who had her to just drop her someplace. And that is exactly what the man did! The community rallied. The whole town practically turned out for a prayer vigil the second night. Kyron had no advocate did he? And we can’t get those critical hours back, can we?
I can understand how this happened to a point. Desiree and Kaine were reeling. Kaine’s brother had his own woes. And maybe the family was fearful if they stood centerstage before media cameras Kaine’s brother’s woes would muck up the effort. Then again, maybe Terri’s medical woes played a role? Just now, over a month since Kyron vanished, Kaine is going before the media and talking about Terri Horman’s medical difficulties after the birth of their daugther. I have to wonder if these folks just had too much on their plate. I geniunely feel so sad right now when I think of what could have been set in motion.
Desiree’s sister issued some sort of letter to the media fairly early on but no letter could possibly create a galvanizing effect today in our comunities, could it? We are truly the digital age. Why didn’t officials help this family navigate this better? Were the officials in Oregon using digital technology to their advantage or hiding from it? Writing press releases without facing the cameras was counterproductive wasn’t it? Many folks were turned off and suspicion grew as the hours ticked by when no one stepped forward. It’s ironic Kyron’s dad works in the computer industry yet Kyron is most visible on sites like this one. It’s ironic that his stepdad is a policemen yet the case drags on. How could so much go so wrong in this particular missing person case? If it went right, Kyron’s whereabouts would be known by now.
We make wills, buy insurance policies, and use planners to organize our and our children’s lives. I think Kyron’s case really screams for each of us to make sure we have some idea who we could trust to help us use the media should we ever face this horrific circumstance. It isn’t all CHILD ID kits. It is really so much more in my opinion.
We have to understand it may not be comfortable. And there may be personal details made public that really shouldn’t (of course I hope the media exercises good judgment) but the real simply question was and is, WHAT WILL HELP BRING THIS PERSON HOME? If it increases amplifies and radiates the effort, do it!
Right now Terri Horman’s medical condition seems to be front and center, before that the rumored murder for hire scheme and the couple’s divorce, before that was Terri’s polygraphs, WHEN WILL KYRON BE FRONT AND CENTER? Sadly I believe the moment’s lost. Time waits for no one. Choices were made and they can’t be undone.
I for one hope that whoever is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance understands that there will be no avenue for peace until Kyron’s whereabouts are known. Peace is only available to those who live honestly.
I’ve been lurking on this site for quite awhile – this case has grabbed my attention as I used to live in a suburb of Portland and I have a son almost Kyron’s age. B, you run a tight ship and I do appreciate the level of commentary on this site.
One thing about what was said about Houze working solely for TMH has been nagging at me. My husband used to be an attorney in Oregon and had to go through extensive training on the reporting of child abuse per the Oregon State Bar, which is why I remember it. He is a patent attorney so he used to bellyache a lot about having to attend these sessions since none of his work involves children. So I asked him about it today and he replied,
“If the child reasonably is at risk of “abuse” or “endangerment” as those terms are defined in the Criminal Code of Oregon, then the lawyer MAY reveal the confidential information.
RULE 1.6 CONFIDENTIALITY OF INFORMATION
(b)A lawyer may reveal information relating to the representation of a client to the extent the lawyer reasonably believes necessary:
(1) to disclose the intention of the lawyer’s client to commit a crime and the information necessary to prevent the crime;
(2) to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm; …
I would guess that criminal defense attorneys, as a rule, don’t go around releasing information that would incriminate their client, but under the state bar rules, they are ALLOWED to breach client confidentiality if it pertains to child abuse or endangerment.
Grace says:
July 9, 2010 at 2:40 pm
—————————
Thank you so much for your post. That took courage to first acknowledge the situation with your sister and then to post about it. I have a similar situation in my life. It’s a difficult scenario to live with and seemingly not many options. CPS won’t remove a child from a situation where from appearances everything “looks” normal and the child belongs to a family of apparent means.
I chose a route to deal with my similar situation in a way that is probably atypical. I chose to befriend the best way that I could the “culprit” in an attempt to stay as close as possible to the child “victim”. It’s a hard road but I’m allowed access that most individuals aren’t. My hope is to give the child small respites of normalcy until that child can identify and speak up for themselves. Is is working? I don’t know, time will tell, it feels like the only alternative for now.
Hi Blink,
Thanks for all of your dedicated and quality work. Reading the latest today, I almost started vomiting. I don’t know how you do this case after case.
Is LE still actively physically looking for Kyron? Have they relooked through the newest landscape areas at the school?
louise gato says:
Is Terri Horman mentally ill? Of course she is.
——————————————————–
Louise, at this point, it may not necessarily be fair to assume such a scenario. Her mental condition, and the specifics of it, may only be substantiated by a licensed professional. We are most likely not going to learn her official documented mental state unless she stands trial.
The defense would have a tough road, however. Even if she has a documented case of PPD (postpartum depression), PPD and PPP (postpartum psychosis), resulting in harm to a child is quite rare and difficult to prove that the said harm was the result of such. Some Counties (not the US though) will only recognize PPD and PPP as a valid defense if the child is under 12 months old, which isn’t the case here. The defense would have a better shot, however, if they are able to prove that there was no motive, or no preceding pattern of abuse existed. A homicide without a justified reason is much easier to defend.
This is all impulsive thought though, the only proof that a crime has even been committed IS the missing child. Although it may appear she is responsible in some fashion, the truth is we really don’t know of any proof at this point. Due to lack to proof, I personally believe that it may be too soon for LE to press charges at this time regarding the disappearance.
Excellent post V. I too agree that many opportunities were lost early on however we aren’t privy to all the information LE had before them. We all knew that Alisa was a stranger abduction and her brother actually saw the man and the car involved. No such witnesses appear to have come forward for Kyron, at least none that we know of. My gut tells me that somebody saw something at the school but LE has kept that info close to the vest in an attempt to entrap the perp. My gut also tells me that they did not make direct appeals to the public early on because they felt that they knew who had him or at least knew who knew who had him. That person, however, has failed to talk and now we are faced with Kaine and Desiree asking us to search for Kyron because they have no idea where he is. I feel that LE thought they had this more under control than they really did, similar to the attempted sting that didn’t work out. I greatly admire the self-control of Kaine and Desiree. If it were me, I would do whatever it took to make that suspect talk.
This is rather far-fetched (and has a few things wrong with it) but do you suppose Terri gave Kyron (willingly or unwillingly) to someone such as LS in an attempt to get a ransom from Kaine? The glasses being delivered were then part of that scheme to show that someone did indeed have Kyron? And after getting the ransom ($10,000 pre-payment), have that person do the real intended deed of taking Kaine out, thereby getting the house, the life insurance, etc? I’m wondering if this was somehow a plot gone awry (in more ways than one) and Kyron was the bait and became the unintended real victim.
Or do you suppose that Terri was just wanting to get rid of both Kyron and Kaine (for whatever reason, ppd, etc) and it had nothing to do with money? just thoughts going through my head…
Okay I haven’t read any of these posts yet and don’t think anyone has had my thoughts yet BUT! and I mean a big but! Does anyone know if it was ONLY Teri at the school? or was KYRON there for sure? this just smacked me in the head just now so don’t get all mad, I really want to know this.
I mean she could have showed up and put his things and his display up even if he WASN’T there and if she didn’t have him with her it would make more sense to me… I just cannot figure out why she would take him to the school and then take him and do something to him> Blink help me out here huh?
Ummm excuse me I just watched Desiree on HLN and she said that Teri probably didn’t act alone, as she didn’t take the hit out on her husband alone? woah nelly, what now? crap!
Hello from Austia and sorry for my not perfect English,
as far as I understood from media reports TH and KH waited for Kyron at the bus stop. When the boy wasn’t on the bus, they phoned the school to learn that Kyron wasn’t there either. Would it not be the next logical step to immediately phone his mother and her husband and ask: “Did you pick Kyron up from school and maybe forgot to coordinate your plans with us? Is he with you?”
I believe I read they phoned DY not before the evening to tell her the boy had gone missing. But maybe I understood it wrong.
Also Kyrons dad just said Kyron NEVER showed up at school that day? maybe this is why LE is taking so long with this one. this kid was never at the school after all….. just his things and maybe this is why they are asking if anyone saw her and the truck at the school…??? Oh geesh let it not be true.
where is the arrest warrent? anyone please and dont give me the whole Hog Wash about not enough evidence, this monster set this shizza up and knows ezzzactly what is up….hence the silence…i am sick of the laws protecting the somewhat accused WHAT ABOUT THE INNOCENT? they don’t have a chance in hell…until one angel comes forward…still waiting or that it will happen….I will always wait
On Depression, post-partum & otherwise
It seems to me that our attempts to quantify PPD are doomed to failure…we and even the experts who write the APA’s DSM (the “bible” psychologists & psychiatrists use to diagnose patients) are just trying to label and explain things that are not that simple. ie there is likely no “time limit” on the effects of PPD, and if there is one clinically, then it is one that has been artificially imposed by psychiatrists/psychologists in their attempt to understand the disorders. The DSM is constantly being revised; it is not “FACT.”
I think it very likely that TH suffered/suffers from extreme depression, ppd or otherwise. If someone thinks they have been extremely depressed but have never considered harming themself and/or someone else, then that person has been lucky…he or she has not been as depressed as it is possible for a human to be. That is not to say that all extremely depressed people must commit acts of violence, but medical help MUST be received in order to avoid these things.
Re: the comment above about antidepressants and inter-family violence, I can only say **thank God for antidepressants**, and I expect they have resulted in less violence than they have caused. The problem is that “mentally ill” people are not stable, and the meds cause further brain chemistry change. It takes time to get back to normal brain chemistry levels. This is why I wonder if more people should be treated as inpatients….outpatient dispensing of powerful neurochemical-altering drugs seems rather irresponsible, although no doubt there are downsides to inpatient as well.
That said, I am interested in DY’s comment that TH has not told the truth in 7.5 years. Compulsive lying is more indicative of psychopathic/antisocial behavior as opposed to depression. Of course, the combo of these illnesses would be like the “perfect storm” in terms of violence.
(I also believe that psychopathic people likely have a large physical component behind their behavior, and I think this will become more and more apparent with more scientific research. For example, I believe that males with XYY chromosome abnormality are significantly more likely to be perpetrators of sexual homicide.)
I don’t mean to excuse behavior resulting from physical/mental illness, but it does raise questions regarding punishment. Hopefully as we gain more knowledge/raise awareness about these illnesses, we will be better able to prevent related crimes.
From Blinker Jackie Bauer’s ABC news link on previous page:
“This gal seems to have anti-freeze in her veins. I mean she’s under a lot of pressure,” retired Portland police captain C.W. Jensen told ABC News. “I mean the investigation, the family turning against her, the community turning against her, a divorce a separation from her child — all these that’s a lot of pressure but it seems that she has the hubris so far to push herself through.”
These are not the characteristics of someone currently suffering from PPD. It is conscious, deliberate, and calculated behavior. She’s reminding me more and more of Casey Anthony, Scott Peterson and dozens of other killers who lack conscience. Personally, I believe anyone who can take a life, especially those of innocent children, suffer from some wiring gone wrong. But these people are generally high-functioning otherwise and we rarely see an Andrea Yates-type disorder. There are people walking this planet that have dark souls. Call it evil, call it mental illness, they are still culpable and I don’t consider it a mitigating factor.
I don’t post much but read every word and think about Kyron during most of my waking hours. I just wanted to thank Twinkletoes and Minima for their thoughtful posts. Sadly depression and mental illness are frequently misunderstood in our society. I don’t know of TH’s situation beyond what KH finally revealed, but obviously something had gone very wrong considering the change in her appearance over the past months.I sincerely hope she gets the help she needs, especially if that will help her tell what she knows about Kyron’s disappearance.
Blink – has your belief that Kyron is no longer alive changed at all?
Sadly, no.
B
@ NancyS says:
July 9, 2010 at 4:38 pm
They have pictures of Kyron taken at school that day & teachers there have stated they saw him & TH at the school that day.. Unless the teachers are wrong..
@ dee says:
July 9, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Once they arrest someone the Speedy Trial Act’s little clock starts ticking & the prosecutors need to be able to indict within 30 days & go to trial within 70 days of the arrest is what I am led to believe from reading this..
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00628.htm
@ V says:
July 9, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Great post..
t.z. #24:
“I believe I read they phoned DY not before the evening to tell her the boy had gone missing. But maybe I understood it wrong.”
In the video interview from yesterday, Desiree Young said that the school called her at 4:25 PM and said she was listed as the emergency contact (which I find odd, considering Kaine is the custodial parent – but probably both parents are listed) – and was told by the school that Kyron was missing. She asked if Terri was there and the response was “yes”. She said she then called Terri.
RE: 28.NancyS says:
July 9, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Also Kyrons dad just said Kyron NEVER showed up at school that day? maybe this is why LE is taking so long with this one. this kid was never at the school after all….. just his things and maybe this is why they are asking if anyone saw her and the truck at the school…??? Oh geesh let it not be true.
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Where did you see/read that Nancy? I haven’t heard that.
@ T.Z. Good point! I also found it interesting that the school was first to contact DY…as she was the emergency contact…it does seem odd that neither KH or TH called DY; I feel like that is the first thing I would do, even with the distance between them, I would in blind faith and hope call, thinking, please, please, please let him be with…But on the other hand it wouldn’t be a call I wanted to make and I would imagine KH was consumed with paralyzing panic.
Muse/Jackie Bauer:
I so agree and thank Muse for bringing over the JackieB statement–
“There are people walking this planet that have dark souls. Call it evil, call it mental illness, they are still culpable and I don’t consider it a mitigating factor.” (I might have to put that in calligraphy on my story board.)
Chilling. They *are* culpable and that is what matters. Fact-finding, evidence, indictment, conviction, will serve legal justice, but moral justice will always be waiting payment.
Beware quoting or encouraging Chuck Jensen’s, “retired Portland Police captain, C.W. Jensen”‘s interest in the case. If you explore his background, you might find more than the quotes, at face value.
NancyS, you said: “I just watched Desiree on HLN and she said that Teri probably didn’t act alone, as she didn’t take the hit out on her husband alone”.
What? I’d love to see and hear that! Where can we? And, meanwhile, did Desiree say why she thought Terri didn’t act alone?
sending hope and love to you Kyron from Upstate NY
Hi, Blackbird, and thank you for the post. I had posted this same information re: Rules Of Professional Conduct early this morning on another of Blink’s web articles at Blink On Crime and had thought about re-posting it on this one. This is important reference material for all of Blink’s readers, including Terri, to digest. Sometimes there really is no place to hide, not even behind a high-profile criminal defense attorney.
Muse–not sure if you or Jackie said this, but your comment gets me thinking:
“There are people walking this planet that have dark souls. Call it evil, call it mental illness, they are still culpable and I don’t consider it a mitigating factor.”
—————-
I totally agree. Whatever excuse she may have should not keep her from being locked away forever or even put to death if she harmed this sweet innocent baby.
The only way I can find some way to sleep at night with this case going on is to frame it in terms of karmic conditioning. Regardless of whether she is arrested and charged and eventually prosecuted, she may go to her grave with the truth. But under the view of karmic conditioning, ultimately Terri is going to have to face her role in this AND work her way toward a higher existence. It is kind of the Zen Buddhist version of “Hell” but replace eternal damnation with hundreds of reincarnations until she has worked off the ill effects of her misdeeds and realized a better way and repace Angels with Boddhisatvas that vow to work to liberate all sentient beings–even her. I stake no claim to enlightenment, but I am really trying hard to live in a way that negates suffering. I do have to say she really pisses off my inner Buddha.
Doesn’t this case get stranger by the minute? Every time we hear something new, I realize more and more how little we actually know about Terri Horman and I agree with you that more and more she does appear to be an icy, tormented, dark soul. If she is truly so far gone, how on earth did she function among us for so long without people knowing and how many others like her are there out there?
Nancy S: “Also Kyrons dad just said Kyron NEVER showed up at school that day? maybe this is why LE is taking so long with this one. this kid was never at the school after all….. just his things and maybe this is why they are asking if anyone saw her and the truck at the school…??? Oh geesh let it not be true.”
___________________________
Where did you get this info? Cite please. Thanks! If true, this is bad, bad, bad for our dear Kyron.
Blink, I’ve been under the impression that the landscaper didn’t voluntarily turn himself in but was tracked down by LE. Do you know how they came to find him?
Nancy S., it was my understanding that LE confirmed Kyron WAS AT THE SCHOOL that morning.
Blink? Help? Is there something new or not?
I have though all along that the older son played some part it the cover up. He can’t be that fond of Kaine or Kyron. Has the LE checked out his electronic gizmos, Blink? Do you know? They have to have a court order to seize them, right? How do you get a court order for a gizmo that belongs to a teen? Is probable cause there if they are related to the step-mom and/or the plot about MFH could have started when the son was still in the house, therfore, that computer could have been used my step mom? That was a really good suggestion, fellow poster. And tonight, in and out of Oregon we will all be praying for the safe return of Kyron. Miricles do happen!
NancyS says:
July 9, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Also Kyrons dad just said Kyron NEVER showed up at school that day? maybe this is why LE is taking so long with this one. this kid was never at the school after all….. just his things and maybe this is why they are asking if anyone saw her and the truck at the school…??? Oh geesh let it not be true.
I thought that the President of the School Board or the Parents Association said that
she had seen Kyron and Terri that morning!!!!! I can not find it right now..will continue
looking. OMG
Blink,
Were Kyron’s actual glasses found and delivered to his house? Found by whom and where? Thank you.
This thread only confirms what I’ve long suspected. Insanity is seriously underrated. Jump in, folks–the water’s fine!
Probably stating the obvious, but …
Having a mental illness does not excuse criminal behavior. Legally speaking, the only potential defense is “insanity” – a declaration that the person could not tell right from wrong. (Oversimplification, but generally accurate, I think.)
One could argue all criminals are mentally ill, but very very few are legally “insane”.
Also, it is very hard to successfully argue for “insanity” (the popular notion that it is a frequent finding is false), and … those who are declared not guilty by mental defect (or whatever the lingo is) don’t get it easy. They are still institutionalized, often for a longer period and without parole.
Let TH use the PPD defense; if she does, she’s at least helping in the recovery of KY.
Thoughts?
So, I am confused on this heavy hitter lawyer. Thanks to those that posted the Oregon State Bar requirements…so, if a child is endangered then a lawyer is a person that is required to report this, correct? AKA: Madatory Reporter.
My questions are these, and I know there may be no answers, but theories and best guesses will due because I just can’t even contemplate it and I want something to wrap my brain around…please.
I am very surprised that there has not been a single statement made by the lawyer, save for “no comment.” It seems we all agree that if TH was totally innocent that they would be fighting tooth and nail, si?
* BLINK: Here’s a question for you, this lawyer is probably working pro-bono with it being such a high-profile case, he’s banking on the publicity, interviews etc, correct? So, is he keeping quiet b/c he doesn’t know what to do with TH himself? Is TH so far into denial that she is lying to the lawyer too, and he can’t “work with her,” issue statements, make a defense? What I mean is, could it be that she’s being just as elusive to him, just spouting the same info she’s given all along? How would a lawyer move forward if this were the case? Would he walk away at some point or try to convince her to come clean?
*If Kyron was deceased, and TH knows this, would he be required to report this to police, considering he’s a minor?
*If Kyron is “alive” and TH handed him over to someone, but TH says he’s in good hands, would a lawyer have to report this?
*If TH gives some story like, (for arguments sake) this “guy” was stalking me, I think he could have taken Kyron, etc. etc. would the lawyer have to report that to authorities? And if that is the case, (that she’s saying something like that, not that it’s true) that would become a part of the investigation, right? And that would mean that TH was cooperating? Does anyone know, if TH and Houze have been talking with LE AT ALL?
I just don’t understand this…anyone have any imput?
How long can this go on? When will the authorities say she is a POI? This is nuts! Why aren’t they saying that? And if they did would that change anything, or is it just semantics?
Argh!
AH, one more question for BLINK: In your honest opinion, if you can answer, just hypothetically speaking…if Kyron was turned over and being held by someone, what is the likelihood that they haven’t come forward thus far? It seems so remote of a possibitly to me, but I don’t know anything about these things. So, do you think, best guess, hypothetically speaking, if someone had Kyron is it likely that they would have come forward by now to save themselves, or is it possible they would still have him in “hiding?”
I would like to know how Terry is making it these days. How are the bills getting paid and all that. What the hay she does all day. I would think she is being watched constantly. Anything she does will be known until we find Kyron, Right??
I still can’t get myself to believe someone else has him..
What would that person be doing with Kyron? Has to be someone all alone without family. How else would you keep a child? Can’t drop him off somewhere because can tell all.
I really feel Kyron is somewhere in the vicinity of their home or the island. We all want to believe that someone else has him, but to be realistic I feel the Lord has him now.