Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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I’m glad Kaine didn’t attend court. It was a slap in the face to TH, good for him. How stupid to wear her wedding ring. Playing the innocent, heart broken wife are we? She makes me sick. I hope she goes to prison, then she will know true suffering, if she doesn’t get killed first.
I have an unresolved feeling about Wishert’s ethnic origin. Somehow he looks a little hispanic to me, but I am not an expert in this area. So, just for fun, I did a little lookup of name origins from ancestry.com.
Bellin Name Meaning and History
German: habitational name from any of several places in northeastern Germany named Bellin.
French: variant spelling of Belin.
Welsh: Americanized form of Belyn, from the personal name of a shadowy Welsh hero who died in 627.
Wishart Name Meaning and History
Scottish (of Norman origin): from the Anglo-Norman French form, Wischard, of the Old French personal name Guiscard. This
was formed in Normandy from the Old Norse elements viskr ‘wise’ + hard ‘hardy’, ‘brave’, ‘bold’ (or possibly the Old French suffix -ard). Compare the French cognate Guiscard
Sorry, we couldn’t find a name meaning for the Wishert last name. Try using an alternate form of the name, or a different last name
Sanchez Name Meaning and History
Spanish (Sánchez): patronymic from the personal name Sancho.
Spicher Name Meaning and History
German (Rhineland): habitational name for someone from any of various places named Spicher (Rhineland), Spichern (Lorraine), or Spich (Rhineland).
Kisiel Name Meaning and History
from kisiel ‘fruit jelly’, perhaps applied as a nickname for someone with a passion for this type of confection or some perceived likeness to it.
topographic name, a variant of German Kiesel ‘gravel’.
http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Wishart-family-history.ashx
I feel like I am missing a very important surname ???
starshadow says:
August 26, 2010 at 1:10 am
“Thing is, there ARE people that make a habit of parking as far from the doors as possible – especially those who are into exercise or have been told to make every step count.”
I also thought this may be a reason she parked so far away from the door. We don’t actually know where she parked, since the pics shown by LE were not actual photos of her June 4th trip to Freddy’s. Another reason I thought of for her to park so far away could be the size of the truck. Those trucks are a bitch to pull in and back out of parking spaces (unless you are a semi-driver). She may have always parked it where it would be easiest to get in and out. I do when I drive a friend’s truck.
“Seriously, if people are going to make up their minds, please at least make sense? Sorting out the ping-pong balls as blatant contradictions bounce back and forth is giving me a headache.”
This is both easy and difficult to do. For almost two months, the immediate guilty verdicts that people reached effortlessly were impossible for me to comprehend. I felt they were based on biased gut instincts and prejudices against step mothers in general. But I worked hard to come to the conclusion that Terri must be guilty of disappearing or killing Kyron and was able to eventually see that side clearly. Based on recent information and Blink’s responses, I am now back believing TH is not directly responsible, but a “catalyst” as Blink says. Ping ponging from one theory to the other was an extremely enlightening intellectual process and I have learned soooo much from Blink and contributors I will be forever grateful.
#
newsatfive says:
August 26, 2010 at 2:31 am
“Methinks the reporter just doesn’t get out much.
“The question remains as to why Terri Horman came to the hearing. She certainly had the right to do so but said nothing in court, nothing to the media, and her presence, legally, wasn’t necessary.”
Easy answer: She showed up because her presence tells the court that she cares and that she is not some criminal on the lam. Her presence and presentation shows that she is an upstanding citizen and not trying to jerk around the court by asking for an abatement.”
Totally agree, News. My first reaction to reading this was why didn’t they tell us if she had belly button lint or not. A bunch of non information that backs up her attorney’s claim that this is a witch hunt and that there is so much scrutiny she cannot be treated fairly in divorce proceedings. I think wearing a long sleeved suit when it was hot, and it was HOT in Portland at that time yesterday afternoon, didn’t necessarily show she is a self-centered, manipulative narcissist. It showed she has some sense about how to dress respectfully for a court appearance and that she is not necessarily a monster.
FLGirl says:
August 26, 2010 at 2:51 am
I’m sorry but I have to respectfully disagree, S.
Thanks for your response. I probably won’t change my mind about the school’s role or lack thereof. My past experience with rolls and absenteeism in school was that you either marked AWE or EA for Absent with Excuse or Excused Absence when you knew a child was not going to be in the classroom that day. These designations were entered into the rollbook when a teacher had been notified by the office or parent and KNEW this was the case. You would have NEVER marked a student absent because you “thought” that student was someplace or other. IMHO, the lackadaisical method of his teacher gave the perps a 7 hour jump.
One of the first things I found completely incomprehensible was the fact that TH left a 7 year old unattended for what was to be more than an hour. Since that time, I’ve spoken with a Skyline parent who explained to me that school did actually start at 8:45. Formal classes were not starting until 10:00, but students were to report to their classrooms at the usual 8:45 to be divided into groups to tour the projects.
Poor little sweet Kyron was hurt by some evil people, and was failed by the many adults in his life.
I personally think that one of the reasons TH showed up at the divorce hearing-didnt have to~! (probably advice of attorney(attorneys) to present a more normal looking persona to everyone~ After all she has time to collect herself ~ get off substance abuse (for a while) lose some weight(she knows how to quickly cuz of body building) ~ dress like a grown-responsible appearing person~! She has put certain stress behind her, for instance(walking daily past the areas in the house where continually she would be reminded of Kyron)~ plus she is in her special place~men opening doors for her and in her fav position~ manipulating the men who are there to help her~I imagine she has presented to them a very wronged soft female but also a strong -intelligent side of her~ The story should read ” The turning faces of Terri” I surely hope that justice is served soon~ Her attorneys probably dont want the divorce to go through right now because she might have to answer some criminal
questions pertaining to the missing Kyron and dont forget , there is a $350,000 “if true” retainer that Kaine is asking to be split if it is part of marital assets, through the divorce . I imagine , hmm that would drastically affect a high cost attorney like Houze represnting her.
People have been clamoring for TH to say something, anything … All the public knows about TH has been influenced by what little is known in this tragic case. Maybe TH’s divorce hearing was her attorney’s attempt to begin rehabilating her public image.
Remember, there’s three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth.
@newsatfive:
You’re right, I will start spelling out ‘Secret Service’…
As for the location of the cell phones in relation to the owners, IMO, LE probably asked TMH if her (primary) cell was on her person in the very first interviews they conducted and she affirmed that it was (probably believing in err that if it was turned off she was safe).
MOO
I say this because of the amount of attention that investigators are rumored to have put into tracking pings and the fact that early on in the investigation TMH was subjected to numerous and lengthy interviews plus 3 polygraphs. At the point where all communication with LE ceased, and Houze was brought on board, I do not believe investigators had uncovered the ‘bat phones’, and therefore would not have been able to question Terri about where it was located on June 4th…
Obviously, this is JMO.
By the time they interviewed DeDe and then subpoenaed her to testify before the GJ, IIRC, she seemed to have caught on to the cell phone tracking capabilities and *conveniently* claimed or implied that for a number of hours on June 4th, her cell phone was *not* on her person.
In the interview with her ex-boyfriend, he alluded to this claim, and thought it was strange, because, to his recollection, DS was practically glued to her cell (and reachable by it) every second of the day when he knew her.
So, I don’t think LE can *necessarily* rule out that DeDe’s phone was *not* elsewhere than on her person, based on her statements, despite what they may suspect.
But, I think TMH probably verified *for them* that her primary phone *was* in fact on her person all day on June 4th….
As for whether or not a *court of law* would put much weight into Terri’s physical location being considered the same as to her tracked cell phone, in light of any previous statements made to LE, I admit, I have absolutely *no* idea!
‘Newsatfive’, I must say that I look forward to reading your posts!
Thanks for sharing your legal insights with all of us here at BOC…
Many of us do not have any kind of professional background or expertise in law, and it really helps to have things broken down into plain English!
Try not to lose patience with us…
We may be coming from a place of general ignorance… but most of us are voracious learners on this blog, and are paying attention!
Stephen Houze knows exactly what he is doing. Having an outstanding reputation amongst the criminals you represented and the Law Enforcement and Prosecutorial communities is no small feat.
B
~~~
Read this from blink after my post, where I was going to suggest that Houze has a strategy and his defense of TH has begun. Stay tuned.
Also will suggest at this juncture that Houze has conducted his own investigation of the where’s and when’s of TH before and after June 4th. Given that neither an arrest or an indictment seem imminent and that there is not currently an on-going ground search, perhaps all that can be known at this point in time, is known. Just my perspective.
Ok, I have to confess of some incredibly selfish thoughts that go through my mind periodically while researching what may have happened to sweet Kyron and looking for any updated information. I fully admit I’m being irrational and selfish here, and inappropriately off our tragic topic, but I wonder if anyone out there shares this feeling with me from time to time, which is:
Can’t they do frickin’ ANYTHING in Oregon at 8 or 9 in the morning???? Why does frickin’ EVERY hearing or press conference have to be done at 4 in the afternoon????? It’s frickin’ IRRITATING (!!!!) to wait all day on pins and needles for any scrap of new information on Kyron until what’s now evening time in the rest of the country. Are you all frickin’ teenagers out there, rolling out of bed at 1 in the afternoon and lolling into work at 3??? I mean, come on!!! Help us out on the other side of our fair land once in a while, will ya???? Geesh!!!!
Whew. Thanks, I needed that. Admonish away, I deserve it. And Kyron’s still gone. Crap.
16.MockingbirdSings said:
August 26, 2010 at 12:32 am
Phyl and kozyotb – I thought about online gambling, but I didn’t know if Terri’s “online business” was verified as true or not. I’m surprised I haven’t seen gambling discussed (or I missed it). Online gambling is very addictive and is popular especially with women who don’t want to be seen gambling, have kids and can’t go to an adult gambling place, etc.
—————————————–
@MockingbirdSings,
I know of a woman who won about a hundred thousand bucks on a scratch off ticket. That high she experienced from winning, set her off on a destructive pattern of spending large amounts of money on more scratch offs so she could re-experience that high. Needless to say, she blew through her winnings and is now very deep in debt and is still battling her addiction. I couldn’t believe it!! Scratch off tickets? They seem like such innocent fun to me. But you are right about addiction. Now I don’t know if TH had a gambling problem, I’m just trying to ask different questions and look at this case from many different angles. But her reported patterns of alcohol and stimulant abuse seem to point to addiction, and many people who are addicted jump from one substance or activity to another in order to experience a huge dopamine rush. I think I read that the rush one gets from a gambling addiction is similar to a cocaine addiction. I need to find that link.
The first thing I did when I read TH appeared at court was to comb through all the pics of her at court to see if there was evidence of weight loss. Some posters seem to think she has lost weight but honestly I couldn’t find one pic that showed TH looking slimmer. She’s in a black suit and dark colors tend to make us appear thinner. I point this out only because one would think in her situation food would be a last thought. I understand that we all handle stress differently but I hoped to see a thinner TH because in my mind it would mean that she IS under stress. As to her appearance and demeanor, you can bet Houze told her to get her crap together, throw on a nice dark suit, and a pair of heels and keep her trap shut. He certainly wanted the public to see a well put together person after the public witch hunt. You can also bet your A__ __ he told her to wear that wedding ring because why would a woman who set out to murder her hubby still be wearing it. It also tells me if she is convicted in the MFH plot she’s going to plead NOT GUILTY. Just MHO.
@S, Thank you for clearing that up for me. I hope LE is scouring through the teachers planners and personal dayplanner, looking for notes and patterns. Teachers are trained to be prepared. Not that all of them are all the time, but that’s the ideal right? Especially a first year teacher! She most likely would have had a plan of which adults committed to being there that day to lead these mini groups and which students she had assigned to them, as well as having a back up plan. Was Kyron assigned to anyone then crossed off?
S said:
“One of the first things I found completely incomprehensible was the fact that TH left a 7 year old unattended for what was to be more than an hour. Since that time, I’ve spoken with a Skyline parent who explained to me that school did actually start at 8:45. Formal classes were not starting until 10:00, but students were to report to their classrooms at the usual 8:45 to be divided into groups to tour the projects”
@zinnia says:
August 26, 2010 at 8:34 am
http://www.ptypes.com/obsessive-compd.html
http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Obsessive-compulsive-personality-disorder.html
Zinnia, these two sites may help explain your grandmother’s need to control. OCPD is different than Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. With OCD, people feel compelled to perform certain rituals even though they know they are irrational. But with OCPD, the person thinks that everyone should conform to their rigid rules of orderliness and morality.
Your parents reactions to your grandmother describe what happens when my mother-in-law comes to our house. LOL She even lived with us for seven and a half months when I was 25 and had two kids under two. That was a lot of fun.
@S says:
August 26, 2010 at 11:04 am
“This is both easy and difficult to do. For almost two months, the immediate guilty verdicts that people reached effortlessly were impossible for me to comprehend. I felt they were based on biased gut instincts and prejudices against step mothers in general. But I worked hard to come to the conclusion that Terri must be guilty of disappearing or killing Kyron and was able to eventually see that side clearly. Based on recent information and Blink’s responses, I am now back believing TH is not directly responsible, but a “catalyst” as Blink says. Ping ponging from one theory to the other was an extremely enlightening intellectual process and I have learned soooo much from Blink and contributors I will be forever grateful.”
Well said! This is pretty much how I feel about this case. I couldn’t understand how someone could “just know” by hearing the words step mom or by seeing Terri in the presser. But as more stuff came out, scenarios began to form in my mind and I could see how she might have done it.
Re Terri at the hearing yesterday: She looked confident – head up and striding boldly. Maybe now she is finally in control of herself again and her attorney feels like she can handle public exposure.
i agree about why kaine did not go to court. i have often thought about how difficult it must be to not go wanna drive to roseburg and rip her a new one. i have a friend who was witness to a drunk driving accident that took place right in front of him on his way to work one morning. a baby was killed in the accident and he held the baby and tried to stop bleeing EMS arrived. some many months later he was called as a witness to the drunk driver’s trial. he said the guy had a smart ass look on his face that he could not tolerate. he went up over the railing to the defendant’s table after this guy at one point and was thrown in jail over the weekend for contempt. he missed a wedding he was supposed to be a best man in the next day. this is a really nice guy…so look, i can’t imagine kaine holding it together in this situation. again, so hard for everyone to stand on the sidelines and judge. put yourselves in this guy’s shoes. i said it lonnnnnng before TH was being called out, he looked enraged wayyy back. he….and the other 2 parents..they must be effing enraged.
In the spirit of trying to figure out what happened at the school that morning and who was involved, I still think this is important. From KGW news in Portland on August 9th:
PORTLAND, Ore. — KGW has learned that investigators are trying to determine the identity of a person who was seen sitting in the truck Terri Horman was driving the day Kyron Horman disappeared.
According to several sources in the Skyline community, including people who have spoken with investigators, the person was seen by at least two witnesses while Terri was in the school with Kyron.
Here is the link:
http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/2nd-person-seen-in-Terri-Hormans-truck-100301534.html
I’m not trying to be a pain in the butt here. Perhaps this has already been discussed and dismissed? I would just like to know, because for me it goes a long way in establishing an abduction theory.
halfpint says:
August 26, 2010 at 11:52 am
“Can’t they do frickin’ ANYTHING in Oregon at 8 or 9 in the morning????”
I’ve thought about this too. LOL A while back they had the presser at 2:00 pm to announce the $50,000 reward and I thought “Ooh, people are going to be pissed that this is preempting Days of Our Lives.”
On line gambling was 1st brought into the conversation here as an example of what sort of online business Terri might have had. On line gambling or poker playing is not generally refered to as a business. Yes, there are professional poker players and for them it is considered a business. But, professional poker players are not secret about it.
@Flgirl: Ouch. That hurts. I’m not sure about the laws in your state but I do think that here in NJ, your brother would inherit his share and as long as he kept your sister-in-law’s name off the account, it would remain his. The entitlement some people feel is unreal. I believe these issues should be discussed before committing into a marriage, but sometimes we are just so blindsided by love. I too have seen families torn apart over inheritance issues. Thankfully not mine. My brother died leaving a wife and a 2 year old little boy. But one of his retirement accounts that he had with the police department was left to me amd my Mother. I can’t remember the exact amount but it was over 400,000. Let me tell you, I had the devil on one shoulder screaming “yippee!!!” and an angel on the other telling me “it must have been a mistake – She needs the money to raise his son.” I would be lying if I told you that I didn’t want to just flick that angel right off my shoulder and justify why he’d leave me that money. I knew in my heart it had to be a mistake or oversight when changing beneficiaries, and my Mother and I decided to sign it over to my sister-in-law. I have never regretted that decision. She’s a wonderful mother and I can sleep well at night knowing in my heart that I didn’t let my brother down. Maybe I would have decided differently if they didn’t have a child. Probably. Each situation is different. I’ve seen too many families torn apart by inheritence issues. It’s sad, but so complex.
Flgirl said: “Sadly, this does not surprise me whatsoever. I can speak from personal experience. My mother recently retired and sold her home; my sister-in-law immediately started calculating how much inheritance was “owed” her and my brother. How she thought/thinks she is remotely entitled to any of my mother’s money, is a mystery to me. If anything, the share goes to my brother. However, my mom had to take early retirement due to health issues, and she needs the house money to help sustain her in a (albeit scaled-down) apartment.”
@ halfpint says: August 26, 2010 at 11:52 am
Hey man, can you hold it down? I’m just waking up out here & haven’t had my coffee, lol. Sheesh, now you want me to go to *work*?
FWIW, the online gambling is an interesting diversion; I hadn’t considered that, but it could be a likely way for people with not much ‘stuff’ to be ‘spending money like water’. Unfortunately, I watched my neighbor do exactly this on the video poker, to the point of losing her house.
@christy – good points. We really don’t know exactly what time TH left the school, could have been ANY time after 8:15 which would give her PLENTY of time to get to her first alibi of Starbucks/FM and the 9:12 receipt.
I am mesmerized by the comment of shelbar previously that the reason TH didn’t make sure LOTS of people saw her when she left the school is that perhaps she WAS the one who took Kyron and didn’t WANT lots of people to see her. She thought just being seen early and leaving Kyron’s stuff there was enough. The story about last seeing him at 8:45 is probably baloney. And the doctor appointment thing, that’s SO lame. I bet the teacher she said that to just wants to scream, “I DID NOT MISUNDERSTAND HER. SHE CLEARLY SAID KYRON WAS GOING TO A DOCTOR APPOINTMENT. I AM NOT HARD OF HEARING.”
I’m thinking TH probably knew to the minute what time the school would be getting busy – probably 8:30 – so if she made sure to get out of there by say, 8:20, she would have had plenty of time to take him to meet another vehicle somewhere, and then floor it to FM. Just drop him off quickly and turn up at FM without him, looks like she came straight from the school, witnesses saw her with the baby and without Kyron so soon after she supposedly left the school. Whatever happened, how could a reasonable person NOT believe that there was POSSIBLY some planning and deception going on here, probably down to the last minute or so? I guess my only problem here is, if TH did plan this, then taking Kyron out of the school with her seems like a bad idea, because all it would only take ONE PERSON seeing her leave with him to blow her cover. So if she left with him, she would almost certainly have had him go out to the truck ahead of her, or at least to go outside where someone could have taken him. I wonder if she did “dry runs” previous to June 4th? Kryon usually rode the bus, but I wonder if a couple of times just prior to his disappearance TH took him to school in her red mustang and then drove straight to FM just to time it, showing up there early in the morning? Possibly circling the parking lot but never actually going in? Wouldn’t prove anything but would be interesting to know. MOO
That old trick of dressing up a person who’s coming to court in order to project an innocent, fine-upstanding citizen image to the “court of public opinion” – we all know that’s most likely why she showed up, complete with the wedding ring (although I don’t think TH decided on her own to do all this, it was Houze who advised her and he probably even picked out the clothes or had someone help her), but holy cow, so many people are onto this trick these days… To me, she looks like she’s dressed as a “defendent” already (even though she’s not one at this time). This dressing up and making an appearance trick has not been successful in fooling jurors for YEARS. MOO
I think Houze had Terri go through the hearing yesterday as practice for the next one, for one thing. He knows she can stay silent, but he should be coaching her on facial expressions – probably will if a jury trial happens. I saw one fleeting glance that reminded me of the first press conference, but generally she was poised. The one thing I have never seen in her face was the “you guys are all wrong and I’m gonna show you I didn’t do anything” look (we’ve all seen it, at least in the movies). I’m sure she got instructions from Houze re what to wear.
Interesting double standard I’m imagining. If Kaine comes in a black suit and tie, he will be perceived as a well-to-do, powerful man, which may not help his case. He just needs to look like “Daddy”, IMO.
Another thought – People have speculated that maybe Terri only sent her past bodybuilding pics to MC and that LE called that sexting. Well, I’d be amazed if MC hadn’t seen at least some of those already online and/or around the house. She could have had a file of pics she made for Rudy or others and sent from that, but I think the game of manipulating someone this way would require something extra, up to date and personal, and some feelings of risk and response.
Could you attract someone enough to do favors for you by sending pictures of yourself as you looked years ago when you won a contest, and then hinting of “the real thing” being available, when the guy actually knew you didn’t look the same now?
Maybe – if, as my 4 year old grandson said this morning when I told him rubber bands are made from rubber trees, “You’ve got a GREAT imagination!”
I have also heard it said that maybe MC found her phone while he was at the house and sent himself the pictures. I have a camera phone, but even with extra storage, I don’t store years of pictures on it – I don’t even have the same phone 5 or 6 years in a row.
I think the whole sexting thing says a lot more about Terri than it does MC, and that LE has more than her bodybuilding pictures – JMO.
Not trying to hog all the space here, but random thoughts are popping in today, so just one more comment.
I too watch all the crime shows, but when they show actual footage of suspect interrogations or post-conviction jailhouse interviews (not reinactments), the guilty person ALWAYS tries TOO hard to point to their alibis, and sentences always start with something like, “Why would I…” TH was practically screaming her 9:12 a.m. Fred Myers receipt alibi to everyone, to the point she had to send an e-mail pointing it out, along with other detailed explanations of events (methinks thou doth protest too much). Another classic (OJ Simpson style) – “the killer is still out there” – isn’t that what DD said?
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I’m not sure about the Multnomah County courtrooms or Oregon courts in general, but generally arraignments take place in the AM so judges and courtrooms are busy with those procedures so other types of hearings and cases are scheduled for later in the day. This is more convenient for jails and it gets those arrested after hours up for bail and release if that’s the case. This may explain the reason for the late afternoon appearances in the Hormon divorce.
I could be totally off base here, so just moo.
Re James’ comment using the word “hysterical”
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/hysterical
behaving in an uncontrolled way because you are extremely excited, afraid, or upset
reacting to something in an unreasonable way
suffering from the medical condition of hysteria
SPOKEN extremely funny
(I don’t think he meant she was being funny.)
We need to remember James is a teenager and his interactions with his mother this past year have not always been the best. I took it to mean she was acting in a way he didn’t think fit the situation and that seemed unreasonable to him. I doubt if he meant it was directly about Kyron. He may have used the same word with a friend after he had a fight with her and considered it to be unfair and her behavior unreasonable and out of proportion to the situation.
I think he was right, especially when you compare it to what the other adults said and quoted her as saying. Teenagers sometimes say a lot with just a word or 2. It’s a hard thing to be asked about your mom this way – I hope he isn’t contacted by any more reporters.
S says:
August 26, 2010 at 11:04 am
—
Easy answer: She showed up because her presence tells the court that she cares and that she is not some criminal on the lam. Her presence and presentation shows that she is an upstanding citizen and not trying to jerk around the court by asking for an abatement.”
…I think wearing a long sleeved suit when it was hot, and it was HOT in Portland at that time yesterday afternoon, didn’t necessarily show she is a self-centered, manipulative narcissist. It showed she has some sense about how to dress respectfully for a court appearance and that she is not necessarily a monster.
———–
MOO – it showed coaching from Houze. In light of the fact that he appears to be telling her what NOT to do, I am sure he is coaching her on what he wants her to do in order to appear as A, B, and C.
Sorry but I can’t give her that much credit – I CAN give it to him. He is playing it very tight to the vest and that could aptly describe the way she was dressed – conservative and proper as heck.
And JMO – I have zero issue with Kaine not being there… and who cares how he dresses – who are we to decide how someone should grieve – and until I have walked a mile in that man’s moccasins, well I don’t have anything but compassion for him. And it might have been very smart that he wasn’t there – were it me, I would want to tear her limb from flippin limb for not opening up her mouth and telling what she knows instead of letting this agony drag on…and on…and on…
Ok Ok I never thought or said Terri was gambling online. I just wanted to know what kind of business she had online (which I still don’t know). I also said “IMO I think she crossed the wrong people in a business deal and Kyron was a payment for her debt.” I believe this is why she isn’t talking as to not incriminate herself in Kyron’s disappearance and her illegal activites.
about those pings – wouldn’t they also have her phone records with the details of the numbers who called her and whom she called? I get them every month. The pings are one thing, but comparing them with her incoming and outgoing calls at the same time would tell quite a lot more.
If she turned her phone off, she would have answered no phone calls, but she also wouldn’t know if the school or Kaine called (even if she didn’t want to answer) until she turned it on again. They wouldn’t have had the number of any other phone even if her friends or accomplices did. That would mean the school or Kaine would know she was somewhere with phone off, not temporarily without signal or just busy or she would have called right back.
IMO, she either would have left her phone on or had the bat phone in advance. I can’t imagine her leaving herself without communication that morning even if she acted totally alone which I don’t think she did. She would have to be reachable in case something went wrong or to get information about a meeting place. (In the movies, people who don’t trust each other or are afraid of being seen don’t agree on the meeting place until the last minute, right?)
I believe Terri did not have Kyron alone with her (and Kiara) after the point in time when he was incapacitated in some way. Until then, he thought everything was fine, and if seen or stopped, she was protected by whatever story she wanted to tell. That point could have been right outside the school, down by the access road, in a store parking lot, or someplace during the “driving around” time.
It makes me want to get a bunch of you together with a truck(s) and our cars and go try to reenact the whole thing to see what works and what doesn’t – especially if LE would give us the ping locations and we could time it all in different ways. Probably take a whole weekend, but I’m not good at visualizing 3-D things (loved algebra, hated solid geometry), and I feel like it would help me a lot!
I must admit when I saw the video of Terri striding through the courthouse yesterday – protected and flanked by her high-priced attorneys and law enforcement, and afterwards being wisked away in a waiting car – I was angry. Angry because she is the very person who failed to ensure the protection of defenseless seven-year-old Kyron.
Even if you subscribe to the fact that TH had nothing to do with Kyron’s disappearance, she alone made the decision to place him in a dangerous and vulnerable position by not ensuring he was safely in the hands of an adult before she left the school. She alone, as a parent and teacher, made the decision to leave this precious seven-year-old alone and unsupervised – even if only for a short time.
Granted, we have all made poor decisions. If a child went missing on my watch because I had left him/her alone, however, I would feel completely responsible, inconsolable; the guilt and anguish would rip me apart. I would do anything and everything in my power to help locate the child for as long as it took.
Terri, however, chose to blame the school for Kyron’s disappearance. Her email sent the day after he vanished stated she felt she had left Kyron in “safe hands”. Since she chose not to place Kyron safely in the hands of anyone the morning of June 4, however, I fail to see exactly whose “safe hands” she was referencing.
Kyron, I pray that wherever you are you are happy. You have made such a profound impact on the lives of so many. I pray for you, those you love and those who love you. I hope that all persons responsible for your disappearance are eventually held accountable.
I work evenings so I don’t do 8 in the morning LOL
maybe we have a larger work force evenings here than other areas
I think Terri looks somewhat better
but has a ways to go
being a woman myself, I would like to see her looking heathly even if
we send her away
I have to respect Houze for that
I can imagine the conversation in my head. Houze says to TH, “what do you plan to wear in court?” TH says, “oh i’ve got it all picked out (the little planner that she is) my red dress and pumps to highlight my red curly hair.” Houze goes ballistic and sends his assistant to take her shopping. I’m sorry I just couldn’t resist.
@Ahnnie – Agreed Houze coached her. As for where KH was, hopefully relaxing with a cold beer.
@FL Girl you said “Or perhaps she has a benefactor/sugar daddy, like Casey Anthony”.
Maybe she’ll know the lucky mystery person from Milwaukie who has until 5pm August 30th to claim their 2.2 million dollar Megabucks ticket…lmao!!!
I am sorry! Just making light of the sugar daddy comment.
@OTB, Got it. But your post inspired another line of thought. I think both thoughts, yours: “what kind of business did she have online, if any?” AND ours: “Was she gambling on line?” have something in common: debt and coming in contact with the wrong people. I don’t think we can rule either of those out yet.
10.Kozyotb says:
August 26, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Ok Ok I never thought or said Terri was gambling online. I just wanted to know what kind of business she had online (which I still don’t know). I also said “IMO I think she crossed the wrong people in a business deal and Kyron was a payment for her debt.” I believe this is why she isn’t talking as to not incriminate herself in Kyron’s disappearance and her illegal activites.
and the saga continues, when will it ever end?:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/082510dnmetabduction.86c86aa4.html
I would like to say if any of us were impressed with Terri’s appearance and demeanor yesterday, then we were impressed with the expertise of Houze. From her hairstyle, clothing, ring on left ring finger to the manner of posture, walk and facial expressions were all calculated choices based on psychologically manipulating the public’s perceptions of who this woman is and what she may or may not be capable of doing involving an innocent child. This woman had to have been advised and coached to the inth degree before her debut. Were we impressed?
It is possible, given what little we do know, Terri was the architect of a plan to disappear Kyron but not to irreparably harm him. As it turned out, the person(s) whom she involved in this plan had another plan. And who would have thought that someone willing to be involved in a crime would not follow the game plan/rules as Terri had designed? Answer: Terri who thought she was clever but in reality naive when it came to navigating criminal elements and enterprise. Criminals always follow the rules of the game, right? Wrong. Living outside the rules is what makes them criminal. Terri should have known that. Perhaps she did and did not care. Stupid or darkhearted?
Given the reports of her meticulous attention to detail and controlling nature toward perfection, she must have spent a good deal of time on this disappearing of Kyron for profit plan — and I do believe it was for profit as the revenge would be secondary but rewarding for her as well. Was she shocked and become befuddled when her co-conspirators made revisions to her plan without her prior consent?
There is a reported incident nagging at me. The man who reported seeing a redheaded woman sitting in a white truck idling at the end of the road at 3 pm and then again at 2 am. Since his report we have learned there is more than on redhead close to this case.
Terri is reported to have stated Kyron was staring into space and wandering in and out of rooms. Was the initial plan to have Kyron missing and reappear somewhere at the end of that road the same day or early the next morning? Did she drug Kyron and then ask someone to take him, hold him, then release him at the designated spot where he would be found? Somewhere near the end of that road?
If Terri left with Kyron and then transferred him to someone else at one of the Freddie’s parking lots then it is very possible it is the Rudy and associates Blink leans us toward.
But — in addition to the outline of her personality drawn for us and who might she have involved in this cockamamie caper of hers — there would have been attention to the smallest of detail in this plan and the laying of groundwork for Kyron’s fateful morning. Then nothing she does in the preceding days is random. What social activities did she plan for Kyron and which friends were invited to participate? What other family members did his little friend have that Terri was familiarizing Kyron to? Someone who Kyron would have accepted and been comfortable around — enough to follow to his abduction?
And of course, I am not attempting to besmirch the innocent and all the preceding is just my contemplative opinion. For simplicity,it could be Terri took him from school, Terri harmed him, and then Terri involved equally naive or psychopathic close friend(s) to cover for Terri in Terri’s version of events true or not. Or Terri simply handed him over and said she did not want to know the details — she wanted him gone. How and where were not her concern.
The multiple plans where only one of the architects of the two plans knew there was more than one plan seems most likely. I don’t know why, but I don’t think Terri thought this would go on past the first 24 hours. Everything she has done beyond that first 24 hours seems adlib.
My heart hurts for the innocent trust Kyron had that morning for whomever took him from the school, whether Terri or landscaper, leading to the harm he suffers or suffered.
Gambling online can incurr debt if the gambler dips into a line of credit on their credit card.
Online gambling doesn’t put you in touch with the wrong people, as in, you owe them money. Nor can they find you. In online poker, for example, the gambler is playing against real people but through the poker site. Other players only know you by your online name, like TexasFat, or whatever.
To play online, the player pays money to the site with a credit card; let’s say $1000, for example. That’s the amount the player has to use in the game(s). They can draw from the thousand to put into their stack at the online table and reload the stack as needed between hands. If they lose the whole thousand then they can’t play anymore unless they make another credit card payment to the site.
Conversely, money won at the online tables adds to the amount the player has in their site account which can be cashed out at any time and goes back onto their credit card account.
Annals said: “Online gambling doesn’t put you in touch with the wrong people, as in, you owe them money. Nor can they find you.”
@Annals: I respectfully disagree with you. But I will give you that some gambling sites are much safer than others.
Hi Phyl. My knowledge of online gambling is from playing poker online. It works the way I explained in my post; players are never in debt to other players.
Are there online gambling sites which function in other ways; wherein players can become known to one another as anything more than their player names? Where they become indebted to one another through the site? Can you describe how it works?
DE says: August 26, 2010 at 3:33 pm
“There is a reported incident nagging at me. The man who reported seeing a redheaded woman sitting in a white truck idling at the end of the road at 3 pm and then again at 2 am. Since his report we have learned there is more than on redhead close to this case. ”
That was neighbor Jim Kelley, who lives with his girlfriend in her house, more or less across the main road from TH. One of Kyron’s friends lives back in the same small section of houses; he is one of the children whose photo TH posted on her own facebook acct shortly before June 4.
The report was ‘a woman in a truck’ (no hair color mentioned) but that report is significant IMO. I drove to JK & his neighbor’s (she reportedly loosed her hounds at the 2am incident) and it is not the sort of place one ends up at accidentally.
I’m glad others are still remembering that report.
Annals, research online gambling and the luchese crime family.
Some guy named Joey baggadonuts would be happy
to bust a head for an unpaid gambling debt wagered on
one of their sites.
Lucchese. 2 c’s. They’re not the only ones.
Scary business. I’d stick with party poker.
Evidently the Luchese family was running an online gambling site and that’s illegal; as are other of their activities; murder, protection money extorsion, bribing police…
I remain uneducated about whether one can have an unpid gambling debt to the operator of a site. Owners of online gambling sites make money without extending credit to the players.
I have never run across any online gambling sites which extend credit to the gamblers. Do you know of any? How does it work?
@ChiaPet517
You say, “Occasionally I’ll put in a thought or a ramble, but I usually get slapped down by someone for my opinions so then I just retreat and go back to reading.”
I ChianMe (not your doppelganger but named for my little dog Tai Chi & me) say you are good at thinking! I stopped reading after your second comment, so I haven’t seen what followed yet (watching the Florida primaries too – don’t get me started). I like the logical way your mind works. Don’t sit back and let others do all the posting. We all get a little slap once in a while. Keep thinking. Please.
I owe you an apolly, but I have no idea why- your posts were not in spam, they were in pending, but this is the first I have seen them, so I am at a loss. First time I have ever seen this- will turn it over to IT. Changing the times you posted so they can be seen. Again, sorry and thank you for bringing it to my attention.
B
And @ Eloise – as I see it, you nailed the motive:
“I think in the end we will find that TH is a spoiled, bored housewife who has had years of insecurity issues along w/ substance abuse. DD a lonely, unemployed woman w/ issues. They needed each other and their activities led to these cesspool people who stole Kyron for their disgusting needs.”
Disgusting needs could have been satiated by DD and TH’s online business. There’s lots of $$$ in the nasty stuff.
On my way to work today, I was thinking, because of an abusive situation I was in many yrs ago, that given the nature of the cycle of abuse “beast” and I honestly think they have been involved in this ~ It just escalated (it always does) far more than they had thought it would…!! I really think they are beginning to miss it~
yes, kaine too~ in the weird way this cycle works~ Just not totally sure as to who is the abuser (could be both) or who is the victim(could be both) They both strike me as awfully contolling individuals
Anyway they might just be missing one another about now (no one said the cycle is normal)and timewise are ready for the Honeymoon stage~~~~ ~Just thinking
I know this sounds strange but even perfectly sane people sometimes step backwards & seek contact & kind of miss the cycle of abuse-honeymoon because that has been the format of their relationship.
The trouble is friends & family are drawn into this too, sad
The abuse-honeymoon phenom is very real, and very, very toxic. Good Point.
B
Link to NEW Blink Kyron thread:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/08/26/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-attorneys-call-her-a-suspect/comment-page-1/#comment-1616353
Thank you riverpearl.
B
Blink, I don’t know where to send this but wanted to get the word out. I believe you have many readers from the Portland area. Hopefully LE will find him soon.
http://www.kptv.com/news/24777153/detail.html
WTF is this guy doing on parole in the first place?
B
@evie says:
August 26, 2010 at 6:54 pm
“The report was ‘a woman in a truck’ (no hair color mentioned) but that report is significant IMO.”
I attempted to trace back where I heard that the woman in the truck had red hair. In googling I cannot find a news site that quotes Jim Kelley as indicating the woman in the truck had red hair. However, there is a moderator of a forum following this case who did reference the woman as having red hair. So I apologize for the error of adding a fact that I may not be able to support. If I ever do, I will return with that information. While Blink is leaning us towards landscaper RS I have stopped to ponder (given some of the odd pieces like Jim Kelley’s sightings that day) if Terri’s accomplice(s) might be closer to home.
Blink, that is a very good question!
DE and evie,
I keep coming back to the truck sightings as well…
29.Annals said:
August 26, 2010 at 7:48 pm
“Evidently the Luchese family was running an online gambling site and that’s illegal; as are other of their activities; murder, protection money extorsion, bribing police…
I remain uneducated about whether one can have an unpid gambling debt to the operator of a site. Owners of online gambling sites make money without extending credit to the players.
I have never run across any online gambling sites which extend credit to the gamblers. Do you know of any? How does it work?”
———————————————————
@Annals,
“I remain uneducated about whether one can have an unpid gambling debt to the operator of a site. Owners of online gambling sites make money without extending credit to the players. “
Good morning. I’m not too knowledgeable about it either Annals. I learn from reading the news and hearing about it from a few of my own sources who’ve had experience from both sides of the law, and I know they would not appreciate their names mentioned. But you don’t know me from Adam, so I respect your questioning. I don’t expect you to take my words as fact, but I hope they resonate with you and others when you are researching different online gambling sites you think you’d like to play on and while communicating with other players on those sites. Hell, thoroughly research all sites you give your personal information to. I know someone who recently had her facebook page hijacked and held for ransom by some person over seas. He/She/It had her password, knew so much of her personal life, was writing on her facebook page, writing to her friends, posing as her asking for money. UNREAL! Anyway, please let me add just one word to your statement to make me happy.
Owners of LEGAL online gambling sites make money without extending credit to the players. (I’m just talking about players who are US citizens, I don’t know how it works in other countries.)
And even the legally run gambling sites are very risky to those who have addictive tendencies (as I believe TH’s behavior suggests), as there are criminally minded predators in the wings just waiting to advance them some money via “personal loan” in order to help them out. I think they are still called loan sharks.
I volunteered counseling addicts for a while and I got quite an education from a man in recovery who spent most of his life in prison. He told me that when he was dealing drugs he would go to NA (Narcotics Anonymous) meetings and take orders. Before prison and while in prison. So I don’t find it too far fetched that predatory loan sharks would spend their time making friends with people on a gambling site. Food for Thought.
But I think it is common knowledge that criminals, predators from all over the world, have flocked to the internet to tap into this fairly new and abundant resource. Now they have easy access to vulnerable people in their own homes. Members of organized crime, gangs, etc. go where there is a lot of money to be made. I’m not much of a gambler. When we go to the casinos, I’ll take some money and buy something (shoes, purse, nice dress) a sure win for me, or just maybe play a few slots. My husband is really good at the craps table and he plays poker too. He has played the online poker games you refer to and he enjoys them, but he just does it for fun now and then. But I too know of people who got in over their head and lost more than they bargained for. What’s the saying, “click your mouse, lose your house?”
How did I get here? Oh, by speculating if TH may have been doing some gambling on line (she spent a lot of time online.) If she got herself deep in debt through gambling (either through an illegal gambling operation usually spread via word of mouth or by borrowing money from a ruthless character to play on a legally run one. KH said she was spending a lot of money.) And wondering if Kyron was used to pay off a debt or to scare her into paying one. Again, pure speculation. There is so much we don’t know yet. I don’t want to lead anyone here in the wrong direction, but I did want to answer your question.
I really enjoy reading everyone’s well-thought-out comments and opinions. And, thanks to mockingbird for explaining the LS situation/Craig’s list, etc. And, chiapet, I completely agree with you. How could TH have planned to do this by leaving the school WITH Kyron that morning? It would take just one person to see her and she’s busted. I still cannot figure out how that sweet boy left the school, but he evidently did… I’m sure this has been covered, but I haven’t read about it recently. We are sure that TH did not have the baby with her when she went into the school that day? If that is the case, I would think someone was definitely in the truck waiting for her. Who would leave their baby alone in a vehicle? On the other hand, who would do something awful to their SS? My own opinion, of course.
I dunno about everyone else but I am headed to the other thread on this case.
See you over there.
Hi Phyl, thanks for the input. I love online poker, but have not played it for a couple of years. I diverted my poker bankroll and have not replentished it.
A minor correction; there is NO LEGAL internet gambling in the US. It’s illegal to set up a site here. And LE can sieze US players funds on deposit in internet gambling sites; that happened to some in NY state. Some US Senators (and states) have introduced bills to legalize it, unsuccessfully to date. It’s legal elsewhere, England, for example.
My point about internet gambling is; because of the way it works, I just don’t see how indebtedness could occur through the sites. Any debt related contact with bad guys would involve extra steps in the brick & mortar world.