Kyron Horman Missing: Case Review And Birthday Wishes To The Frog Prince
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On what is Kyron Horman’s 8th Birthday, the Skyline School, where Kyron was scheduled to begin the third grade, is buzzing with the start of the years activities without him.
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In response to the disappearance and presumed abduction of the bespectacled herpetologist; Skyline has implemented a myriad of mandatory safety features as well as a state of the art security camera system. While complete with facial recognition capability, one face it will not be recognizing today, is that of Kyron Horman.
Although missing since the morning of June 4, 2010, there have been no updates from the many State and Federal agencies participating in the criminal investigation of his disappearance since August 12, 2010.
Adding to the mounting concern about the status of Kyron’s fate are the words of his own parents, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young.
“The police will not stop until they find Kyron and the harder they have to search–the harder this will get for you,” wrote Young. “You will go to jail and whoever has been helping you will have to talk police or they will go to jail.”
It is clear from Kaine and Desiree’s comments that they believe Terri Horman, Kyron’s step mom, is at least partially responsible for Kyron vanishing. While they stop short of naming any possible accomplices, Rod Underhill, the chief deputy district attorney of Multnomah County, Captain Jason Gates, Detective Bob O’Donnell of the Multnomah County Sheriff Office have sought the publics help to flush them out. Multnomah County Chief Deputy District Attorney Rod Underhill said a witness, or witnesses, have reported seeing someone else by the Hormans’ extended-cab pickup while it was parked in front of the school between 8:15 a.m. and 8:45 a.m. on June 4, the day Kyron disappeared. In what was characterized as a slip-up, methinks that that Kyron’s Mom told us that someone was actually Kyron.
While Terri Horman is holed up at her parents newly refinanced home in Roseburg and under the mortgage-sized retainer protection of Stephen Houze; she is awaiting the September 21st contempt hearing for allegedly violating an order that she not disclose the “sealed” reasoning for, or contents of, the current restraining order in effect against her.
Accomplice, Witness, Opportunist or Collateral Damage?
Rodolfo “Rudy” Estrada Sanchez
When reached at one of the numbers records show is billed in his brothers name, Jaime Estrada Sanchez, who uses the name Jaime Estrada on his carpet cleaning business website declined to comment to blinkoncrime.com and the number has since been disconnected.
Speaking on the condition of anonymity, a close family friend who has since been interviewed by the FBI, has confirmed that Terri Horman is pointing her finger directly at Sanchez. She has also stated that she and Sanchez had an altercation after she attempted to end their relationship in May which ended in a 911 call and a visit from Clackamas County Sheriff Office in the presence of Sanchez’s wife and children. While it did not result in any charges, Horman told the source that the landscaper was furious with her because he is not in the US legally. While blinkoncrime.com has not been able to verify the date of the alleged 911 call, we have been able to verify that Terri called her Mother immediately following the incident and told her that Kaine had found out about the landscaper she hired to do what she referred to as “her yardwork” and when she informed him that she could no longer use him because Kaine was making her fire him, he lunged at her with Kiara in her arms. Kaine Horman denies the couple ever hired the landscaper as well as any previous information as to his estranged wife’s possible dealings with Sanchez.
It should be noted that Mr. Sanchez has not been charged with any crime in this matter and local references to his business are highly complimentary. In fact, Jean Ann Van Krevelen a friend and “mentor” of Dede Spicher has used RS Landscape Maintenance on a few occasions, leaving positive reviews on the ServiceMaster listing which deleted his business from the site on 6/21/10. Heather Walters, owner of Rosemont Farm,which is not West Wind Farm, where Dede Spicher was working the morning of June 4th and out of reach by phone from approximately 90 minutes, has never met Terri Horman or heard of their family prior to Kyron’s disappearance. When I asked her if she knew Rudy Sanchez or if she ever hired his firm to work at WWF, she replied “not that I recall, no, but we did have a blackberry clean up a few years ago so it is possible.”
Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez
Or has he?
Although records indicate that he was placed under post probation supervision by ICE on February 19, 2010, according to Mr. Sanchez-Sanchez Federal criminal docket after being “found in the US and apprehended” in August 2009” following a previous deportation in 2003, he was “administratively arrested” on February 23, 2010. A Federal Grand Jury’s subsequent indictment was issued on March 4 and he was immediately incarcerated.
Mr. Sanchez-Sanchez rap sheet includes convictions for rape, failure to register as a sex offender and a host of probation and parole violations prior to his deportation.
In what can only be categorized as a bizarre coincidence, Oregon BOP VINE network shows that on June 26, 2010, they very day of the “sting” involving Rudy Sanchez, Anselmo was transferred and released to “community supervision”. There is no record of either his transfer or his booking by MCSO July 8th on his docket. What is reflected on the record for June 21st, is the US Marshall Service requested a rescheduling of his plea hearing on July 1st - July 12th directly with the presiding judge outside of his Federal appointed defense attorney. Yep. Exparte. Mr. Sanchez attorney Allison Clark used the 7/12/10 court date to file a motion to quit the case. They have subsequently worked through their differences and were scheduled to appear yesterday, but a 4th continuance in the case was granted to reschedule for October 7, 2010. In that motion, Ms. Clark asserts that Mr. Sanchez has been in custody the entire time but that his records are difficult to retrieve so more time to prepare for trial is necessary. I’ll say.
Dede Spicher
Doppelganger. Organic Gardner. Jilted girlfriend and support network for Terri Horman.
Up until a few weeks ago, she was also very much the object of accusation by Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, as well as the investigators assigned to Kyron’s case. So much so, they released a flyer featuring the ginger ladies and the infamous white truck. LE has subsequently backed off of Spicher and publicly stated they do not believe it was her in the white truck in the lot of the Skyline School. Dede’s father is a semi-retired Klamath County Sheriff deputy. If it can be confirmed Spicher knew Kyron was missing on June 4th we have a very big problem.
Blinkoncrime.com is in receipt of a private post through a mutual friend of Dede’s in response to an article about Kyron’s disappearance from the school which was post on June 4th at 11:40PM
Spicher responded on June 5 at 7:44am: Holy Crap! I KNOW this boy!
Mutual Friend, June 5, 1:35PM: no way???!!! Really Dede?
Spicher: yes. My friend Terri is the step-mother mentioned in the article. It’s so shocking when something like this hits so close to home. < ?xml:namespace prefix ="" v />
Michael Cook
The source of both information for the contempt filing and hundreds of sexts exchanged between he and Terri Horman following Kaine Horman’s filing for divorce and leaving the marital residence as advised by MCSO, Michael Cook was a high school classmate of Kaine Horman.
Mr. Cook is also one smarmy dude if his former spouse Shannon has anything to say about it.
Oddly, blinkoncrime.com has learned from an inside source that Cook was not called before the grand jury to testify. In the instant action for contempt, Kaine Horman’s attorney Laura Rackner specifically references the “sexting” and the text regarding Houze’s fee as information provided by law enforcement.
So, was he acting as an agent for le or is he himself under investigation?
Jason Wishert
William Jason Wishert is undoubtedly wishing he had not interjected himself in this case. Apparently new to the blogosphere via a request from Maxine Bernstein of the Oregonian, Mr. Wishert took to what he saw as his *nuveau*cause*celeb* status with moxy.
That was until he announced his appearance on the scaredmonkeys.net forum to answer questions about the case and cry the blues when he accused the Oregonian of using his rough notes to skewer Dede Spicher. According to Wishert the “not a lot of kissing but plenty of telling” memo was not supposed to be published. About 3 minutes into his introduction to his “sleuthing public” Wishert was asked why he spelled his name incorrectly and if he was indeed the son of convicted child porn possessor William Kent Wishart. In a really bad move, Mr. Wishert denied the allegation and retreated with his tail somewhere on his person.
Kent Wishart, former CEO of Graphic Sciences, is in Federal Custody for the next 4 years for possession of child porn and engaging in a file sharing subscription for same. Jason’s brother Grant is an employee of GS. All three Wishert’s hold numerous active and inactive business licenses throughout Oregon and Washington. Graphic Sciences has a Mexican affiliate office.
Both Jason and his brother James Grant have had numerous legal entanglements (editor’s note: say it just like Chief Margie with the flat “a”) and our attempts to substantiate Jason’s claims about court appointed child advocacy certifications have yet to be confirmed.
However, with his Uncle John Kerr, Jason Wishert is heavily involved in the Friends of Pimpollo Charity which sponsors various children issues and an orphanage in Mexico. FOP is a verified charity with a 50% tax deduction rate according to IRS Publication 78 in good standing, but they are years behind in their annual reporting.
Birthday Boy and America’s Frog Prince
Today, Kyron Horman’s eigth birthday, may not bring us any closer to where our frog prince is, but we do wish to extend our thoughts and prayers in celebration of his special day to his parents, friends and family. There are 2 celebrations for Kyron today. The picture below is an image of the birthday invitation chosen by his Mom, Desiree Young, and designed by scaredmonkeys poster Brandi.
Images by Klaasend
Jason Mateos, Madeline Tanner, and Laura Cincaid contributing editors to this report
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@fitz says:
September 30, 2010 at 2:35 pm
“also, in his account of the morning of the 4th he implants the cat into his story, which is a common tactic when someone is fabricating a story because they are overworking the details and a domestic animal is a typical object to pump sympathy thru the audience. just my opinion, but its mine none the less.”
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Wow. I think he included the cat because he was reliving the last moment he shared with his son. I think over these last few months he’s probably relived every adorable, precious moment he ever shared with his son. Kaine doesn’t need to pump sympathy through any audience. The photos of adorable Kyron are enough to inspire sympathy and empathy from all but the coldest of hearts.
Foobros says:
September 30, 2010 at 12:06 pm
I’d also like to add that while Terri’s silence is due to instructions from Houze, Houzes’ silence in this matter speaks volumes. If Terri really was a victim in this crime, he would have at least issued some kind of statement.
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I respectfully disagree. Four points:
1. It’s not his style to try his cases in the media.
2. Many excellent defense attorneys do not issue statements to the media.
3. Once he saw that LE and KH-DY-TY planned to convict Terri in the media, he probably became even more resolute to let them do their thing.
4. He was quickly in a position to begin collaborating with civil litigators he has a good working relationship with, so they can assess the possibilities of pursuing the various parties in civil litigation down the road. That works better if you haven’t made public statement early on (as we are now in the criminal phase).
I think it’s just his strategy. And, IMHO, an effective one.
40.Satori says:
September 30, 2010 at 1:13 am
In regards to your Token of Trust comment, did you like his acknowledgement in the book, here is a snip-it:
“Test reading and story analysis were conducted in a college English class in Portland, Oregon by my daughter-in-law Terri.”
You can read quite a few pages of the book here:
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tokens-of-trust/10811243
@S says, in your 9:35 or so comment today:
__________________________
Yes, and thanks for the link to “Project Censored.” I wasn’t terribly amused at much of what they said. But, I agree with this about Ky’s case being overreported:
“…people would rather watch a soap opera about one very sad misfortune than think about systemic problems that have no easy solutions.” Also, Nancy Grace is a predatory succubus whose popularity is an indictment of Western rot.”
Well, I’m laughing about NG, of course. But they do have a point, and it’s just a reality of the business of the mass media. What sells? I’m sure many people would rather discuss that “ain’t it awful” aspects of Ky’s family, etc., than to talk about how this could happen to any child.
And I figure most people here, even, are bored out of their minds with my “larger context” posts. And that they scroll and roll. That’s ok; I’m not trying to make a living out of this; the MSM is.
************************************************
Oh, and I also contacted the reporter (J. Thomas??) at Portland Tribune who published that story about how sad it is that Ky gets all this attention and other kids, esp. in parental abductions, don’t. He quoted 2 well known representatives of missing kids organizations. One the Charley Project lady. One more well known.
I suggested to him that he follow up on Elsy’s kids and give them some deserved press. Never heard from him. And the people he quoted in his article stressed that kids abducted by their parents are in no way to be considered out of harm’s way.
Not sure if this guy is directly related to RS and associates, but at the very least, making people in the Portland area aware of him, can’t do any harm.
Joseph Sanchez
http://www2.co.multnomah.or.us/Public/EntryPoint?ct=89563e0c0f1c3010VgnVCM1000003bc614acRCRD
http://northwesttales.com/
Here is the link (not sure it will come through as a link) to all the information, including excerpts, from the book written by Kaine Horman’s father. This all really intrigued me early on, when I was (hopeful) that Terri was not the “bad guy” in this and was actually trying to protect Kyron from someone.
I’ve been lurking here and on SM since this first happened. I live in TX and the only way I know that there is a story or show regarding Kyron was because I religiously come to the these sites. In my opinion there has not been enough coverage regarding this little guy and the search for him.
You guys are doing a great job of sleuthing, it makes my head hurt when I try to think of the possibilities of what could have happened.
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fitz says:
September 30, 2010 at 2:35 pm
I want to agree with fitz in that the photo of Kyron that day seemed forced or that he was in a daze. Which makes me think of the email that TH sent regarding how her day went on the 4th and that she was taking him to the doc for mini seizures and all. I am convinced he was being drugged some sort of way. (excuse me if this has been addressed already – so much info here I cant keep it all in).
Nothing more to offer but prayers, hope and love for Kyron!
We all seem to have made up our minds about TMH’s character. Only once the true facts surface they may sway us.
What if the note said:
“YOU wanted a murder. I have Kyron. Meet up @ OUR spot.”
Now ‘our spot’ could of been numerous places, including back of parking lots, back-roads, SI, gym etc.
As TMH is driving/ parking/waiting- maybe a delivery to a mail box is made.
Fitz,
Thanks for your post. Although I have no idea what you are referring to when you mention “a fight on the night of the 3rd.”
Can you elaborate?
Thanks.
fitz says:
September 30, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Blink and audience: does anyone have info regarding a fight on the night of the 3rd?
Amy’s sister wrote: Kaine was distant, Desiree lived far anough away she was not available to give Terri a break, and Terri was expected to care for three kids full time. Couple that with her mental instability and possible involvement in local crime and voila!, recipe for disaster.
I second Amy’s post completely. Let me add as a local who knows many women whose husbands work for Intel that working for Intel involves very long hours. Yes, they pay “well”, but those who work for them do work LONG HOURS to earn that pay. Many Intel workers work 12 hours shifts three days a week plus Saturdays every other weekend. Others do not work Saturdays but routinely work 10 – 12 or 14 hour days five days a week, which indeed does leave their wives doing most of the work raising the children five days a week.
Many such women feel that they are like “single” moms during the week. They carry the main load of keeping the house up, raising the children, and taking the children to and from their various activities. They long for more meaningful time with their husbands but end up with only pieces here and there. What time they do have together is often spent taking care of what needs to be taken care of and, if possible, hubby getting some well-earned and needed time to “relax” from his labors.
I am no THM supporter, trust me, however, for someone with her mental health challenges, it just may have indeed been too much for her with too little help and support from Kaine. Not casting any aspersions on Kaine either, the long hours he worked at Intel are also what brings home that kind of money in this area.
It’s really a rather a golden trap: big “bucks” but with long hours required for the big bucks. And once one has “moved up” to a big house and two new cars and then the housing market “fell”, there is no way out but to keep working the long hours for the big bucks and pray that your job isn’t the next one “cut” by Intel. This is the gritty hard reality of good-paying Intel jobs these days. Thousands have been laid off. So even if Kaine wanted to “cut back” on his hours, he probably couldn’t.
@ alwayssunday – we would all be very interested to know what you uncover. And the pedophile possibility brings to mind something I read years ago about loser perverts who belong to the group called NAMBLA. The research indicated that members had a distinct preference for boys of about 7 to 8 years, and that they called these youngsters “chickens”. If this crime was indeed sexually motivated, and if we cannot see in RS’s background any sexual leanings of his own toward little boys, then I am betting Kyron was quickly handed off to a local paying “customer” for top dollar. I hate considering that, but if RS indeed wanted revenge against TH, a large amount of cash and TH being scrutinized by LE would sure scratch that itch. This is all just MOO, and I could certainly be wrong. Hope I am. Love & prayers to little Kyron.
40.Karey says:
September 30, 2010 at 3:34 pm
20.lyla says:
September 30, 2010 at 12:47 pm
I think TH was just arrogant enough to think she could handle the situation. I don’t think she ever really needed LE on the other two 911 calls, I think she was using them to prove a point to RS as to who had the upper hand. “You are the illegal, nefarious, landscaper and I am the child loving, teacher, married mustang driving, body builder. Who are they going to believe?” I think she wanted to avoid LE that day because if they dug just a little past her story, her image would be blown. She was smart enough to know that a child abduction would make them dig deeper. JMHO
Amy,
What a wonderfully encompased post. While I don’t necessarily agree with you on all fronts, I do on so many. Further, when any disagreement is based on a lack of facts / evidence (good to say “in my opinion, etc., at times).
I think I am in line with you on a parental role in that a child’s well-being comes first. If Terri Moulton Horman was KNOWN to be a SEVERELY mentally ill person who was allowed to be the sole provider for 3 children on a daily basis, perhaps there is an issue here. If there is a true diagnosis and other family members DID NOT help the situation…THE CHILDREN…..well….I am at a loss for words.
Thanks.
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Amy’s Sister says:
September 30, 2010 at 2:52 pm
The posters here are very intelligent, and sure make a person think, but I believe firmly that Terri is highly involved in this poor childs demise.
Did Kaine and Desiree fail Kyron by allowing a manipulating woman to raise him who may have had little love for him? I think so, as I surely would not allow another woman to raise my child, especially if I thought she was less than moral. Then to ignore my child crying that he didn’t want to go back to his stepmom? Not, never, no way. I do believe the ratio of pictures on Terri’s FB indicate how she felt about little Ky, especially in light of the comments she made about the few photos posted of him. ALL of my children are adorable to me, even my 21 year old, and ALL of their photos are scattered throughout my FB page.
Terri was tired of raising Kyron with little to no help from Desiree or Kaine, at least in Terri’s mind. Kyron felt unloved most of the time, and ignored by his parents, Kaine and Desiree. Why else would they say on national TV, not verbatim but essentially, “Kyron, we want to take care of you, we want to be with you”.
Kaine was distant, Desiree lived far anough away she was not available to give Terri a break, and Terri was expected to care for three kids full time. Couple that with her mental instability and possible involvement in local crime and voila!, recipe for disaster.
The note left at the Wall of Hope (Daddy, I love you Daddy…), if taken at face value, would indicate someone knew Kyron was in a destitute situation at home, and knew Kaine was ignoring it. It also makes mention of ‘special K’ which could indicate Kyron was being drugged, and that she ‘can’t hurt me anymore’…
What if Rudy tried to warn LE early on that Kyron was in danger? And LE ignored him? The number of ‘interesting’ characters in this loss of a child is astounding. From what Staton said, it could be far wider than we’re even aware of. I’m sure all of this has been hashed out before, but these are some of the important factors IMO.
Kyron was used, poor sweet baby, but his life had a purpose. The investigators have their hands full, but God willing the evidence will be clear and the public made to look straight on at issues that have been ignored and swept under the carpet for too long.
You know, child sexualization is a learned behavior, it’s passed down through the generations. Factually speaking a child relates touch to love, and their concept of love can then be twisted through abuse. The more abuse, the less soul contact there is from within, and the more likely a victim is to become an abuser. I usually don’t blame individuals, I blame the pattern of the act from generations past and the fear of facing this pattern by the human collective. Add to that the internet and greed and it’s just out of control, with people in positions of power who revel in the harming of children.
Pull the wool back, expose it, look at it, talk about it, protect our children from it, and move forward. There’s every possibility there is a child living on your street who is a victim, living behind a window box and a smiling mama who volunteers at your schools.
I’m ok with the possibility that TH has some involvement. But I personally don’t think Kyron looks drugged in that last pic. Possibly too many pics taken that morning, or forced due to wanting to be doing something else.
It just occurred to me about him not being allowed to leave his room (bed?) until he was gotten by his parents… he does have a little sister. He is a little boy. Possibly rambunctious. How many times do we tell an older sibling “be quiet and don’t wake them (the younger sibling) up!” I can see the parents saying, just stay in your room until we get you/get up. Possibly he was an early riser. Might not be so sinister. And if so.. then his dad is as much to be scrutinized over the possible ‘horrible’ treatment of him in the regard. Possibly more so. How many children have been injured/killed by a significant other and we vilify the bio parent for not ‘protecting’ them. Just my thoughts.
In response to some of the discussions lately:
In an early interview Kaine was asked about Terry and he mentioned her moodiness and some depression after Kiara was born. He also said they had some problems but he was under the impression things had been getting better.
It is not uncommon when people have relationship problems for one to come up with a personal “solution” without the other knowing. Whether the solution is leaving, MFH, finding an outside love interest, going to counseling alone, meds, or whatever, that person often feels a sense of calm and less invested in continuing the fights to the same degree as before if the solution is believed to be soon and workable. The other person may then take that to mean things are improving, and often feels blindsided when the “solution” is discovered. If MFH was Terri’s solution, I would expect a period of relief, followed by rising tensions again.
Kaine is a man (by which I suppose people are implying he is naturally not as good at relationships, although I disagree) and he may have an “engineer/computer guy personality” whatever that really is, but I’ll wager if you choose any 20 men, at least 19 of them would have a very difficult time figuring out how to get along with Terri past the initial physical attraction.
I doubt Terri’s women friends really have a more accurate understanding of her than Kaine. Women tend to give another woman the benefit of the doubt because they understand problems from a woman’s point of view. They can ask the “right” questions to enhance someone’s lie without realizing it, make the “right” assumptions to come to the conclusions the person wants them to believe, empathize with the exaggerations, and if someone is nice and fun to be with, they can enjoy the social contacts all at the same time. Women will say “have you thought about” or “have you read” or “something like that happened to me” and “call me if you need to talk.”
These statements are not all inclusive, and not intended as criticism – it’s just the way many of us are often socialized to react to others.
In my opinion, no matter what Kaine did, he was out of his league with Terri when it comes to manipulation and lying. IMO, she is somewhat of (but not entirely) a master at manipulation and at creating designer lies tailored to fit the person, the day, the time, the crime, the situation, and probably the weather, if need be. A “master” is someone who can change a lie on the fly, avoid getting caught most of the time, be truly convincing, and handle little, big, and little white lies – and if caught, make up a quick justification for avoiding the truth. Unfortunately, it becomes hard to tell the lies from the truth after awhile, even for her.
@Rose: I believe that pic was on here recently of Joseph Sanchez, but I am not sure if this was (look at his relative)
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&qf=joseph&qmi=b&qn=sanchez&qs=OR&trackit=74&focusfirst=1
Neighbor,
I have NOT made up my mind about Terri’s character, etc. I am OPEN. I am also clueless and OPEN about all other characters involved.
Thanks.
@33.fitz says:
September 30, 2010 at 2:35 pm
“Blink and audience: does anyone have info regarding a fight on the night of the 3rd? I remember reading somewhere that there was a blowout at the house on the 3rd and the project didn’t get delivered when it was supposed to (that night) which is why terri needed the truck on friday and also why they were at the school so early – setting up the project.”
————————-
I’m not aware of any blowout on the 3rd. I believe Kaine stated Terri asked to have the truck on Thursday the 3rd to take the project to school. She wanted the truck on the 4th to pick up the project which she did not do.
Rose, scratch what I just said about the relative…just realized it’s Jaymie as in female! Sorry
Blink,
Sorry about your weather. I phoned my Grandmother in California the day of record heat in LA (she lives close enough). It was 5:00-ish and she told me it was 110 in the shade on the back porch! Ouch.
THanks
That weather killed an associate of mine that was hiking there, brutal.
Winds and flooding here.
B
I’ve been going back over certain things that stuck out in my mind and thought I’d share.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98981009.html
July 21st (snipped)
Prior to his June 4 disappearance, Kyron Horman’s stepmother, Terri Horman, informed his teacher he had a doctor’s appointment on Friday, the sources said, and it was why there was no expectation Kyron would be in class after the science fair. Once class began at 10 a.m., his teacher marked him absent.
According to sources, investigators believe Terri Horman was vague about which Friday she was referring to when she gave notice to the school Kyron would be gone and only after he was missing did she clarify that the doctor’s appointment was on June 11, the Friday after the science fair.
To me this is an indication that LE had checked out the doctor appt. info. and IMO still have/had doubts about TH’s explanation of same.
Aug 10th (snipped)
http://www.kptv.com/kyron-horman/24581546/detail.html
PORTLAND, Ore. — E-mails written by Terri Horman and obtained by FOX 12 give insight into her reaction the day her husband moved out of the family’s northwest Portland home with their daughter.
Horman — the stepmother of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman — wrote an e-mail June 26 accusing her husband of illegally taking the toddler.
“OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don’t want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don’t hear from you in an hour I will call 911,” Terri Horman wrote to Kaine Horman.
Now, why would she say “I need to know that my daughter is safe?” IMO she was not afraid that KH would harm Kitty, rather that someone else would. We already know that DS said the same thing.
There has been some discussion about DY and TY lately. IMHO the media has dug into their lives already, and didn’t find anything salacious enough to bring forth. I think it would to foolish to believe otherwise in such a high profile case. I also think that if DY wanted to have Ky with her most of the time, KH would have had a fit and fought her tooth and nail. It would have gotten very expensive in court, I would imagine. It’s quite possible this was part of the reason for their custody arrangement. I also think that if DY knew about some of TH’s behaviors prior to June 4th, she would have gone to hell and back to get full custody of Ky. I do not fault her for going to Canada to get a non-FDA approved treatment. If I were very sick I would do the same. Further, when she said that Ky saved her life once, IMHO she was referring to when KH left her for TH and she was depressed for several months, but had to pull herself up to take care of her son. He made her want to live and carry on.
That’s just my take on it as a mother and a person that suffers from depression.
The fact is, at this point, that none of this is helping me figure out what happened to Ky, and that is why I am here. My thanks to all for the great posts and sleuthing you are doing. I desperately hope we are able to find some really solid answers, and soon.
Blink, I changed my ‘name’ as there seems to be 2 other ‘Kims’ that post.. in case that’s why I’m still in moderation. The other Kims leave insightful posts and I didn’t want theirs to get confused with mine!
@Kirby says:
September 30, 2010 at 3:41 pm
“4) However, I still SERIOUSLY DOUBT that THM could be posting to FB at 8:56am inside her home, and then within 16 minutes have a time-stamped receipt from the Fred Meyer on Cornelius Pass by 9:12am. I would more easily believe that *someone else* got the receipt from FM for her OR that *someone else* posted to her FB account for her from her home computer — so that it “looked” as if she were at home posting to FB. I base this on living here and knowing how long it takes me to get to that FM and I live far closer to it than THM does. Also, Cornelius Pass Road is a winding rural road near her home which you can often find yourself behind “slower moving” cars on. In which case you can only go as fast as they are agoin and simply have to “wait” for them to either turn off the road or pull aside to let you “pass” them before you can drive faster.
5) Another option is that someone “rigged” a fake receipt or knew how to rig the self-check out to print out a receipt with the “9:12am” time stamp. OR someone else got the receipt for her. Which would jibe with LE asking for videotapes to confirm that it was THM who actually received the receipt.”
———————————–
Or, as another poster wrote about a few days ago, she could have just picked up a discarded receipt at the FM with the time stamp of 9:12 on it. I’m sorry, I forgot who posted that, but she said that she had a colleague who routinely picked up discarded receipts and used them to claim expenses at their company. If this was the case, or if, as you suggest, Kirby, someone else got the receipt for TMH, that might explain the less than perfect timing. You’re right, this must be a part of the investigation.
foobros says:
September 30, 2010 at 3:00 pm
I’m blaming her for the rest of the weird stuff – doc appt., not retrieving project when that’s what she had the truck for, etc.
~~~
thank you for the info on the talent show that afternoon. As to the other weird stuff … in any good story that hooks the reader in the beginning, there are teasers … those pieces of information that seemingly contribute to the storyline, but in the end don’t really matter. That’s how I feel about the “weird stuff”. Just looking at the surface, there was nothing out of the ordinary for me. Even Kaine said that TH used the truck whenever she needed it. So I don’t know how the “weird stuff” affects the story, but it doesn’t lead to abduction/kidnapping for me.
Blink,
I am so sorry. How very tragic. My condolences.
———-
That weather killed an associate of mine that was hiking there, brutal.
Winds and flooding here.
B
TY
B
@ S says:September 30, 2010 at 9:35 am
“The Willamette Week has had something to say and no one is going to like this. (You will have to add the http in the front of the link in your browser. When I post links, my comments disappear.)
wweek.com/editorial/3647/14557/”
S, I just want to call out your comment.. I clicked through this morning but thought it was last year’s story, as I skimmed it over and I didn’t catch it until today. WW include Kyron’s story as on the 5 most over-reported local stories of the year.
While we are on the topic of WW and media this week, and the non-reporting by normally investigative journalists.. I’ve had the old story about WW and the O getting tossed from KH’s media conference earlier in the summer. The story is what we’ve read before, but this time I read all the comments. There are several journalists weighing in, and it is interesting to see the professionals response to the family selecting who they will report to and who they will not.
Like the Jim Kelley truck sightings, I haven’t figured out exactly how it fits in, but that event is part of the story somehow. What exactly was going on that KH et al did NOT want reported. Note that LE didn’t toss those reporters, the family did. They also let the reporters back.. some sooner than others.
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/01/kyron-hormans-family-boots-ww-and-the-oregonian/#comments
Yes and thank you
B
@Idahogal says:
September 30, 2010 at 6:17 pm
“Further, when she said that Ky saved her life once, IMHO she was referring to when KH left her for TH and she was depressed for several months, but had to pull herself up to take care of her son. He made her want to live and carry on.”
—————————
She actually stated this in one of the news interviews with Kaine, when asked about what she’d written in the note to Kyron. But it wasn’t a general realization that she had to pick herself up. She specified a moment. She said that after months of crying over the loss of Kaine, one day she looked at Kyron’s face, and it was the look on his face that told her everything would be okay, and then she was able to carry on with life. Sorry, I don’t have time to find the video.
@ Kirby says:
September 30, 2010 at 3:41 pm
5) Another option is that someone “rigged” a fake receipt … Which would jibe with LE asking for videotapes to confirm that it was THM who actually received the receipt.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kirby-
TMH could very well have PICKED UP another customer receipt:
A. A receipt left ON counter @ Starbucks
Numerous times I have seen receipts left behind as a customer goes over to p/u drink order
.
B. A receipt left @ FM SELF check- out.
More times than I can count my receipt is the end of long attached left behind receiptS-yes plural.
A person would have their choice of TIMED transaction w/o attracting attention-simply by taking ALL receipt w/ their OWN TIMED receipt.
Store video inside may prove a different time line than the time of receipt.
C. Option also to consider an EMPLOYEE @ Starbucks &/ or FM have access to receipts that a customer leaves behind, too.
FM has cameras inside their stores & I believe on the exterior of their bldg but not out in the parking lots.
Starbucks can be in some FM’s & other times attached to bldg exterior.
Now I have never looked to see what if any cameras are inside a non-FM/interior Starbucks.
It may be cameras from the exterior of FM cover the outside of Starbucks.
Just not sure what video would be available in a Starbucks if it was not inside the FM store.
As anyone who has been in a Starbucks, there are times that are so busy that an employee would say (if you were a regular) you were there but not know the ‘true’ time. Especially if asked about the time~
“oh, yes I remember them being here & it was around [fill in the time of normal rush] time.”
It would be easy to p/u an earlier receipt in the middle of a rush.
Especially if you are a planner & you know details matter.
JMHO questioning …
MockingbirdSings:
Would you bet the farm that everything LE, Kaine, Desiree, and Tony have had to say is true and 100% accurate — including NO DECEPTION?
Do you believe there is nothing substantial worth looking at with respect to all other parental figures?
You could certainly donate it to your favorite charity if you are wrong….
20.Idahogal says:
September 30, 2010 at 6:17 pm
TMH wrote to KH: “OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don’t want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don’t hear from you in an hour I will call 911,” Terri Horman wrote to Kaine Horman.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As I was reading this I was struck by the notion the TMH seems to relish calling 911, especially when it comes to dealing with the men in her life. Hmmm….
We may not know her (as some have repeatedly said) but we sure have some noteworthy clues regarding her personality style.
MockingbirdSings says:
September 30, 2010 at 5:26 pm
… IMO, she is somewhat of (but not entirely) a master at manipulation and at creating designer lies tailored to fit the person, the day, the time, the crime, the situation, and probably the weather, if need be. A “master” is someone who can change a lie on the fly, avoid getting caught most of the time, be truly convincing, and handle little, big, and little white lies – and if caught, make up a quick justification for avoiding the truth. Unfortunately, it becomes hard to tell the lies from the truth after awhile, even for her.
________________________________
Mockingbird-
Therein lies LE ‘mess’ to de-tangle and verify what IS the truth and what is mere smoke.
I think of the LE that had to question Casey Anthony & family… and just like LE now—
all LE want to do is find a lost child.
MockingbirdSings,
I forgot to ask — What is your opinion about Kaine’s decision to cheat on Desiree when she was pregnant? Is that just an acceptable “man thing” too? All Terri’s fault?
Thanks.
Tigi,
I never got to see Terri’s FB page when it was public…but
1) could the post have been made VIA her cell phone?
If she was at home: Facebook uses your “computer’s” time settings. Once you have adjusted these settings, log out of Facebook and then log back in. Your Facebook time stamps should be adjusted accordingly.
(Easy enough to change the time)
20.Idahogal says:
September 30, 2010 at 6:17 pm
“There has been some discussion about DY and TY lately. IMHO the media has dug into their lives already, and didn’t find anything salacious enough to bring forth. I think it would to foolish to believe otherwise in such a high profile case…”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well said, Idahogal. My heart simply breaks for Desiree, Kaine and Tony. I know all I need to know about them in this case. They are victims and are suffering beyond all measure right now. They deserve only compassion and support. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that they failed Kyron. I think they did the best they could with what they knew at the time. No one but the perpetrator could have possibly foreseen this horrific crime. One day that monster will be brought to justice.
Idahogal,
I totally hear what you are saying. Nothing would disturb me more than LE focusing on the WRONG thing in the early stages based on comments from family members, etc. It was and still is my opinion that they may have gone in the wrong direction at first.
Also, beyond comments that may not be deemed useful by some at this time, I think there are LARGE lessons to be learned here. It is up to each and every single person to choose what is digested and how. I know that I have learned so many things here. And I am grateful for it.
Thanks, Blink and all.
Evie,
Good eye.
—–
evie says:
September 30, 2010 at 6:42 pm
@13.MockingbirdSings says:
September 30, 2010 at 5:26 pm
“In response to some of the discussions lately:
In an early interview Kaine was asked about Terry and he mentioned her moodiness and some depression after Kiara was born. He also said they had some problems but he was under the impression things had been getting better….
———————————-
Good insightful post. Thanks!
Riverpearl,
I am HOPING that LE knows wbether or not Terri was there based on surveylance tapes provided by Fred Meyer. I was really HOPING that LE acted in time enough to gain such valuable information. I must believe that Fred Meyer and other retailers have serveylance inside their estsablishments as well as outside.
On a side note: I have been known to buy something small in order to use a clean restroom. You know the signs, “Customers Only.” I am not a gas station kinda gal and YES, I do follow the rules.
Just sayin’.
My first post. Have been reading you folks for a week or so. I have become attached to the Kyron case as it just strikes me as being vastly different from how all other missing-children cases have been handled in the media, and I’ve seen several cases locally produce tragic endings. I want to believe that Kyron is alive and is being used by adults and I will offer up some ideas with that in mind.
I hope to start a discussion as follows:
1. If someone wanted to ‘send a message’ to Terri Horman over money or actions, why would they target her stepson in a highly public place with tons of potential witnesses?
2. Would it not seem a better idea to scare the daylights out of her via a kidnapping of her children at home? Fewer witnesses. Easier access (no big parking lot with lots of people walking around). And how about taking her daughter, instead of her stepson? From what I can tell so far, Terri MIGHT have been very clear on Kyron being her stepson, not her biological son, to everyone. “The wonderful stepmom” routine? “Look at me, he’s not my real child but I love him so much?”
3. Why would anyone then create an elaborate plan involving a school building if it would be easy to go to the Horman house? Terri was there as a stay-home mother, alone with her daughter? So why not target the easy target?
4. Was Kyron taken not to spook Terri, but to spook Kaine? Except that Kaine works so many hours as a professional at Intel? Kyron is rarely with him during the day? Terri always has Kyron? She was just the vessel to work around?
5. So then why didn’t Terri call LE all day long if she knew Kyron was missing? In what I have read, there hasn’t been any indication that she avoided contacting LE before, or that she was a shrinking violet or wallflower?
6. Was Kyron due to participate in the talents how that afternoon at the school? If not, that’s one thing. But if he was, why did both parents, or at least one of them, attend that? Kaine came home early, checked in with the household, and went to bus stop? NO mention of the talent show, by him, as far as I have read. No mention by him that Terri was home? And why wasn’t SHE at the talent show? Was Kryon going to be in it??
7. The timeline for Terri being at the school, and then rushing about on errands, baffles me. I was a stay-home mom for each of my kids, who are five years apart. I know the drill. Strollers, diapers, supplies, car seats. It seemed some days to take me two years to get one of my children out of a car to enter a supermarket, lol. Not to mention finding a parking space, walking into the store, finding what I needed, checking on in a line filled with other people, etc.
8. I don’t think DeDe Spicher plays in this at all. Just a gut feeling. Can’t explain it (for now).
9. Desiree: I’ve walked moms and dads through child custody hearings in my county in my state through my previous job as a low-income housing manager. For example, a tenant would have a custody hearing pending, and that could determine if he/she could qualify for a 3-bedroom instead of a 1-bedroom apartment. A hearing to determine joint custody would prompt me to ask some serious questions — “are you telling me the truth, that you stand an excellent chance of having the judge determine joint custody, and thus you will need the larger apartment?” I know mothers who do not have primary custody. Many, many reasons for this, all honest and legit and focused on what’s best for the child…including health issues. Some women opt to let children stay with their fathers, even if they get well again, because the child is established at a school. This matters to kids. It matters to some mothers. Not something to pick at.
10. Kaine: From the work I did with low-income tenants, I also know that many, many men believe that “sons should be with their fathers.” Kaine might be one of those men. It’s not uncommon.
11. Considering this custody arrangement, Kaine could also be a father who sees things black-and-white with domestic issues. Women take care of children, not men. He has a wife and she will be at home. The court could have determined that Desiree missed much time with Kyron due to her serious health problems, and Kyron was thus settled in a home with a stay-home stepmother and a well-employed father. It happens, folks. Judges make decisions like that.
12. Desiree again — has accepted her lack of custody rank with Kyron, sees him on scheduled weekends and school breaks, and tries to deal with Terri being the primary female caregiver. Most likely she’s pissed off about it, but copes.
13. This complex family structure has Kyron settled into a routine at home with his father and with a stepmother who now has a daughter (half-sister) and her older son (step-brother). What a mix for a little boy! But other families cope with all of this. Was the Horman household one of those households I’ve seen — the father fixed on a very rigid set of roles? What dads do? What moms do? Was Kaine still ticked off that Desiree dumped him? (Guess what — men who move on to new women when their wives are pregnant can still be piss-pots if the wife filed for divorce — strange but true!) Was all this mish-mash of parents and step parents and step kids and half-siblings organized?
14. Keeping the idea in mind that the Horman household might have been pure chaos with an over-taxed stepmother/mother/wife (as Amy described so well!), we have Terri Horman about to explode with frustration? The old man is never home. She’s dealing with a teenage son. She’s had a baby. She has a stepson. She has to deal with the stepson’s mom, who’s not a fan. She knows that the stepson’s mom is married now to a cop….oooops!
15. Can you say “pissed off crazed female on post-partum hormonal warpath?”
16. So this mess is in place. And then Terri gets involved, WITH her husband, in unsavory adult activities. (Kaine is too edgy and too in control for me right now — I sense he’s hiding something, not about his son, but about himself). Perhaps Terri goes along with the ‘alternative’ stuff because….well…because you don’t say no to Kaine Horman?
I know guys like Kaine. They live life with caricatures. Women do this, kids do that, wives do this, ex-wives do that. There’s nothing really wrong with this, other than it often backfires on people who believe it. Kaine, it seems to me, had no clue what his second wife was like, what she needed, who she was. This is not a slam on Terri or Kaine. I’ve seen marriages like this. The man is utterly clueless about the wife’s entire life, and the wife is fuming mad because he’s clueless.
Now, with this toxic mess of Kaine assuming things and Terri not being able to tell him “uh, no, that’s not what I need,” and Desiree angry that Kaine calls the shots (have you watched those two during their public appearances? She looks to him for approval sometimes before she says something!) you have….(drum roll) TONY YOUNG!
Tony is a cop. I believe that he’s been told “stay out of the light, you’re a cop, this is a messy kidnapping, keep a low profile, like these scumbags who took Kyron want to see a COP in the family?”
Yikes. Poor Kyron! Born into the most whacked family dynamic I’ve ever seen!
Except….all the photos I’ve seen of Kyron? I have not seen a troubled, stressed, unhappy child. I’ve seen a happy kid.
Children are far, far more resilient to stress than we think they are. I have a hunch that Kyron and Terri got along. I think because Kyron was with her more than with his father, that any kidnapper decided to take Kyron to get to his father, not to his stepmother…that if someone wanted to send Terri Horman a message, they would have targeted her daughter, not her stepson. Because Terri seems to have made it clear to people that Kyron was her STEPson. If you want to punish a parent for something you feel they owe you, you go after THEIR child, not their stepchild. Whoever took Kryon was sending a message to Kaine, not to Terri? Terri was just in the loop?
Kaine is acting too weird. Too closed down, too controlling of media. I find that way too strange.
I recall clearly the 1993 abduction of Sara Ann Wood in upstate New York. In that tragic case (her body has never been found), the father was the point man to the press, and let ANYONE and EVERYONE report on his daughter’s kidnapping. Her dad had no ego — “talk about my daughter, and oh, by the way, talk about all these other missing kids too, while you’re at it.” All press was good press to Sara Ann’s father.
Ok. My rant is over. I’m still on the fence. I just think I see things in these adults in this case that bug the living hell out of me. I think that the media has to be far more aggressive. And that whichever LE is primary in this case now, they need to stop being so cryptic and vague.
Kyron is all that matters. Everyone around him dropped the ball after he was abducted. Egos have to be left at the door.
I’m not sure how the comments section works yet so forgive me if this is a duplicate.
Blink, what would be your best guess as to when we might see an arrest in this case. A month, by Christmas, next year?
In your opinion, do you think they are hoping to get her on the stand during the civil proceedings and get her to slip or something?
I just don’t understand why Blnk is the ONLY source doing any investigative reporting on this case. It doesn’t make sense to me – the story has sex, dysfunction, mystery… why is there so much silence???
Because your not going to see another lead come out of this case until an arrest.
B
@Satori “I have NOT made up my mind about Terri’s character, etc. I am OPEN. I am also clueless and OPEN about all other characters involved.”
The last day I saw the Hormans was on Jun/3. I am open to new *facts*. Let me tell you this: Like hundreds of other neighbors, I have agreed to multiple searches of my house, outbuildings and property. Do not take this lightly. We respect our privacy here. Like many others that were at the school that morning, I have spent many hours talking to LE about the sequence of events that morning. Everybody that I know has gone out of their way to help LE solve this crime. That is except one odd duck: Ky’s own stepmother.
If the plan was that Terri needed the truck to pick up the science project after school – seems like Kyron would have had the expectation he’d be getting a ride after school. There had to have been some explanation given that afternoon as to why Terri wasn’t going to pick up the project after all, and seems like Kaine might have asked her at that time, “Ok does Kyron know to take the bus or does he think you are coming to get him and the project?”
Was walking to the bus stop to meet Kyron something Kaine had ever done before at least on occasion? The bus driver, other students on the bus, neighbors etc, would know this. Something just seems off that there is this picture painted (some by Kaine himself) that he didn’t know what Terri did with her time during the days, marital problems, distance etc. – yet on that day they walked as a cozy family unit down to meet the bus. On a day that Kiara was said to be sick, and widely commented on that it was a rainy day.
RS and ransom note don’t make sense to me. The whole theory assumes that TH would have known upon receiving the note that it was RS, complete with instructions where to meet (FM) to exchange Kyron for money. She already called the cops on him before, so the idea that she would have kept mum and tried to handle it herself for fear of him exposing her for MFH plot doesn’t compute. Plus, on the one hand it’s being widely speculated that RS and associates are criminal masterminds running drug cartels and porn rings – and on the other it’s being assumed RS would be a complete dumba$$ going to a school to snatch a kid and leaving a ransom note knowing that she’d know it was him. Also, it is assuming that LE would be so inept that they wouldn’t have checked RS’s alibi for June 4th or given him a LDT and cleared him before using him in a sting and for testimony before GJ.
I like reading everyone’s comments. People obviously care enough to keep this little boy in their thoughts and Blink has created a great forum here.
@Malty – loved your squirrel observations
Kim S,
I agree that Kyron did not look drugged. If you were to see a picture of my sister on any given day, based on the way her eys are NATURALLY, many here would say that she is drugged based on her eye-lid in relation to the characteristics of her actual eye. It is the way she is.
I think you have pointed out something very important. Because WE are not privy to any defense statements really, it is entirely LOGICAL that Kyron may have been told to be quiet in the mornings as to not wake his sister. Some children are very early risers. My daughter has been an early riser for the most part, and she goes to bed and awakes with a smile on her face
We do not have a small one in the house. My daughter loves babies, however, and I could see her, out of sheer joy and love, getting out of bed to wake a little one up!
————
KimS says:
September 30, 2010 at 5:26 pm
I’m ok with the possibility that TH has some involvement. But I personally don’t think Kyron looks drugged in that last pic. Possibly too many pics taken that morning, or forced due to wanting to be doing something else.
It just occurred to me about him not being allowed to leave his room (bed?) until he was gotten by his parents… he does have a little sister. He is a little boy. Possibly rambunctious. How many times do we tell an older sibling “be quiet and don’t wake them (the younger sibling) up!” I can see the parents saying, just stay in your room until we get you/get up. Possibly he was an early riser. Might not be so sinister. And if so.. then his dad is as much to be scrutinized over the possible ‘horrible’ treatment of him in the regard. Possibly more so. How many children have been injured/killed by a significant other and we vilify the bio parent for not ‘protecting’ them. Just my thoughts.
@Blink
Blink said: That weather killed an associate of mine that was hiking there, brutal.
Winds and flooding here.
B
Sally Menke? I was sad to hear about her. I didn’t know her personally but I’ve seen her before on the Brush Canyon trail with her dog and she would give her dog water from her sports bottle. She seemed like a nice lady.
Lovely woman, and the best Editor in the Biz, imo.
B
Make no mistake about it***********is involved.B obtuse innuendo?/theory? what’s your take on that?
My take is that stalkers get arrested. Anything you have heard to the contrary is inaccurate.
Ask around.
B
19.Marci says:
September 30, 2010 at 11:42 am
“But Satori I think you have to look at the big picture… Look what she did AFTER her daughter was taken away.. Sexting shortly after her daughter and step-son were taken doesn’t do much for the character of this “lady”….”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I totally agree, Marci. We may not know much about TMH, but what wew do know gives us insight into how she operates.
Because your not going to see another lead come out of this case until an arrest.
B
Wow, and my big question is: Are there any leads good enough to bring an arrest?!?
Does LE know who Kyron went outside the school with? Or, did he go out alone? Does LE know what car/truck Kyron got into? Does LE know who owns/drove that car/truck? Did Terri know about a plan to abduct Kyron? Did she know before June 4th or find out June 4th via a note? Did she withhold information after June 4th which would have led to finding Kyron?
I just don’t want to believe that not one family member, friend, neighbor, ex-girlfriend or ex-employer of Rudy Sanchez would not give whatever information they may have to a member of the media who was looking for clues in the story and may have a few bucks to share, but just because I don’t want to believe it doesn’t make it so, I guess.
I don’t want to believe that not one bit of information will come from people who attended the science fair that day. How long will it be before parents of Skyline students begin to question whether LE has this covered and their children really are safe, in spite of the speculation that some hired hand and his minions may well have kidnapped a child from their midst?
I just wonder if the imminent arrest(s) will really have anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance or peripheral acts of criminality discovered by LE during this investigation.
So far, there has been no arrest in the MFH accusation. Even if it’s true, how will the prosecutor prove it? I don’t think RS’s word will mean much as Houze will make sure he’s in a holding facility or on his way back to Mexico before a trial begins. Really, how credible of a witness could RS be? There’s motive for him to lie about Terri, she called the police to his home a few months before! Maybe this is just me worrying too much that justice will not be served for Kyron.