Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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Guess what the landscapers are back , they are
trimming trees up the street
I live right in the area where the Sanchez are
but these guys have different names
on my way to work I saw lots of them
I am going look closer
LOL
@ beejay that posse sounds fun but I can see
lots of landscapers as soon as they get
nearer right here at home
did you ever see Ridgeway in person
with all these sex offenders out and about
I think maybe one got Kyron
But every day I think something different
S 10-20 6:33 pm
You said a mouthful in your last sentence. (I tried to post it). It seems the more bold people are willing to become, the more they get away with.
Beejay 10-20 10:45am
Thanks. Pondering…
I see two camps here tonight. Camp #1 – TH did it herself. Camp #2 – There is a third person involved.
I think TH could have done it herself, but for those that think that way, I have a few questions. Why issue the flyer with TH and DDS? Why would DY and KH plead to her for information and not plead to her for the return of Ky? Why does LE consider this an unusual case?
I think there could be another person involved, but for those that think that way, I have a few questions. Did TH and RS and a third person all cooperate in this abduction? Did RS and a third person conspire for pay backs against TH? Was TH unaware and RS was teaching her a lesson and someone took advantage of him and took off with Ky?
I have been following Zahara’s case and I can’t believe how despicable someone would have to be to hurt that little girl much less murder her. She has the brightest smile, she is so vulnerable and yet such a fighter and so optimistic looking despite her disabilities. The evil in her case is so clear, her own family is so obviously responsible.
Some children are murdered by their own families and it hardly makes the news. Ky’s case somehow stands apart from Zahara’s case and others. Not one more important than the other, so why such headlines and national attention for some and not the others? Is it because Ky was taken from a school, or is it because we have not identified the evil? What are we missing? When LE says they know things they wish they didn’t, I think they mean either pillars of the community are involved including their own, or something more deviant than we can imagine, which in this day and age leaves WHAT?
Satori, A few weeks ago when we all grilled you after a comment you made, did you really have it all figured out after all, and that is why you haven’t posted lately? Are you at 30,000′?
familythx….I’m pretty sure one of the reasons for the questionnaires that LE passed around not once, but twice, was to check handwriting. That is speculation on my part, but it sure makes a lot of sense to me.
Beejay…I am installing jets to my scooter in order to chase the bad guys with you, I’ll let you know when I’m ready to join the troops!
Shouldn’t be to much longer now, wonder what the cost of rocket fuel is these days?
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
Enumclawrose,
I chnaged my handle and did not think I would respond to any posts for “Satori” but I have decided to.
As I have said before, a couple of comments from Blink and posts from Newsatfive hit me like a ton of bricks and I made a post relative to the information provided by Blink and Newsatfive instantaneously without even giving it much thought at all. It flowed from my head to the screen.
I have no clue if I am properly positioned at 30,000 feet. I am whipped around by so many aspects of this case. But I will say THIS — Was the Mayor’s TWEET a proper form of communication concerning his question to the public? I don’t TWEET myself. I find it sort of a Hollywood-ish form of communication. That is just my opinion, of course. Nevertheless, I don’t think that TWEETING a serious inquiring was appropriate and stood out big time to me. As limited as the communication was concerning the man in the photo, it made it larger-than-life to me in the scheme of things.
The sudden urge to identify the man in the photo, coupled with the end result being that the identify of this man would not be disclosed, makes me want to know who this person is even more. For me, this brings even more attention to the “man” and perhaps a different intended purpose for the TWEET.
enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:34 am
Satori, A few weeks ago when we all grilled you after a comment you made, did you really have it all figured out after all, and that is why you haven’t posted lately? Are you at 30,000′?
@ Malty says:
October 21, 2010 at 3:21 am
____________________________
You live near some of the Sanchez clan we’ve identified here? So, have you ever seen any missing child posters for Jamie and Ubaldo?
If not, think you could see if any local stores would let you put one up–Walmart, local carnicerias, etc.??
Mother Hen — When you identified the man in the photo, did you wonder why his picture went up on Facebook as soon as TH got home?
@riverpearl: thanks for the school coach links.
I did, incidentally, read a newspaper article naming the Elgin teacher as a member of the local school board. But, let’s not assume THAT has anything to do with it!
A blinkism that makes one go hmmmm.
“I am not sure if the average person is aware how difficult it is for LE to switch gears when they lock in on a “suspect”.”
B
(just a friendly bump)
I am not sure if the average person is aware how difficult it is for LE to switch gears when they lock in on a “suspect”.
B
____________________________________
Yes’m. I do. It’s like turning an oceanliner around. Further complicated in this case by tight resources; careers that could be impacted when a change of suspect becomes known; and the ensuing manpower that will be taken away from actual case-work by the high level of accountability indicated in Staton’s “business plan”.
That plan was depressing to me, except for bringing in some “new eyes” and some case review. I read mostly bean-counting and meetings and going through proper channels. And not so much finding evidence.
Which made me want to scream: “a really good PI can move ever so swiftly, unencumbered by all that bureaucracy.”
Blink – do you still think there are sealed indictments and/or warrants in this case? You have been pretty quiet lately about such things.
@Mother Hen aka Satori- I’m glad you are posting again, don’t stop. IMO the Mayor’s tweet is not relevant in any way. He was posturing in a sad attempt to be included in this case. He should have made a heartfelt public statement about Ky given the fact that a child was abducted from a PPS. I can’t wait until he is out of office. FWIW I do not believe the man in the photo is involved in this case, period. I give MCSO more credit than that.
*************
FWIW-There is a person that shall go unnamed at this time that is really ringing bells in my head. I have attached a link and snippet about paraphilia aka sexual perversions, it is not pleasant to read but IMO quite informative. I want to see if this info. raises any “antennae” for some of you. I have very strong suspicions and theories, but will not post them at this time. As always, I may be way off base, and all of this is speculation on my part.
There is very little certainty about what causes a paraphilia. Psychoanalysts generally theorize that these conditions represent a regression to or a fixation at an earlier level of psychosexual development resulting in a repetitive pattern of sexual behavior that is not mature in its application and expression. In other words, an individual repeats or reverts to a sexual habit arising early in life. Another psychoanalytic theory holds that these conditions are all expressions of hostility in which sexual fantasies or unusual sexual acts become a means of obtaining revenge for a childhood trauma. The persistent, repetitive nature of the paraphilia is caused by an inability to erase the underlying trauma completely. Indeed, a history of childhood sexual abuse is sometimes seen in individuals with paraphilias.
However, behaviorists suggest, instead, that the paraphilia begins via a process of conditioning. Nonsexual objects can become sexually arousing if they are frequently and repeatedly associated with a pleasurable sexual activity. The development of a paraphilia is not usually a matter of conditioning alone; there must usually be some predisposing factor, such as difficulty forming person-to-person sexual relationships or poor self-esteem.
The following are situations or causes that might lead someone in a paraphiliac direction:
• parents who humiliate and punish a small boy for strutting around with an erect penis
• a young boy who is sexually abused
• an individual who is dressed in a woman’s clothes as a form of parental punishment
• fear of sexual performance or intimacy
• inadequate counseling
• excessive alcohol intake
• physiological problems
• sociocultural factors
• psychosexual trauma
Source: The Gale Group. Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine, 3rd ed.”;
Read more: What are the causes and symptoms of sexual perversions? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/464273#ixzz130HRawTZ
enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:24 am
I see two camps here tonight. Camp #1 – TH did it herself. Camp #2 – There is a third person involved.
@enumclawrose
Hi enumclawrose, good post.
I think there are actually 3 camps perhaps:
Camp #1 – TH did it herself.
Camp #2 – TH didn’t do it herself but planned for it to happen (via a third party).
Camp #3 – TH didn’t do it or plan for it, but it happened via a third party, somehow because of something she was involved in.
And I guess there could also be a Camp #4 – TH had nothing to do with it whatsoever and is just a victim of a bizarre number of circumstances and coincidences that happen to make her look very very guilty of something or other.
35.familythx says:
October 20, 2010 at 10:19 pm
I Care says:
October 20, 2010 at 8:30 pm
“Terri (in my opinion) could have absolutely pulled this off all by herself. ”
I totally agree with I Care:
I have believed from the beginning that Terri acted either alone or in concert with one other person, but motivated by her…The only one looking guilty here is one Terri Moulton Horman. This is moo for what it’s worth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@familythx: Well, she certainly is the one with the most powerful attorney, isn’t she? This has always spoken volumes to me.
And before anyone throws tomatoes, YES, I would definitely have hired Houze if I were in her shoes. No doubt about that.
Did she do it? Who the heck knows? Could one person have pulled this off? Of course, it happens all the time. I would think if one wanted to make a child disappear one would involve as few people as possible. Like Madilu and many others (including those in LE), I am a huge fan of Occam’s Razor.
I am still sitting on the fence as to who may be the actual perp here.
BTW, regarding moms with narcissistic traits/PD: These types of mothers generally do much better with infants and toddlers (i.e. children they can more readily control). Once the child gets a bit older, and develops a mind of his/her own, the fireworks begin. It can turn into a disastrous battle of wills with the child on the losing end.
enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:24 am
Some children are murdered by their own families and it hardly makes the news. Ky’s case somehow stands apart from Zahara’s case and others. Not one more important than the other, so why such headlines and national attention for some and not the others?
@enumclawrose
That is a good point.
I believe the short answer IMO is that in most cases when a child is murdered by a family member, we immediately, or shortly thereafter know what basically happened, how they were failed, and who is responsible. The news is reported, we are all saddened and disgusted (yet again), but there is little more to report on from that point if a person is arrested quickly in the case.
In the case of Kyron, there is still so much mystery around the disappearance and so much unknown to the public, that we can not stop following it until we get the answers we are seeking. Even though there are no real answers in any of these cases, we are able to move on a little more once we know the perpetrator has been arrested and is going to be held accountable for their actions in some way or another.
In Kyron’s case no one has been arrested and so I think people keep following, and following hoping for that one day when they turn on their computer, or pick up a newspaper, and get to read that SOMEONE SOMEHOW has been arrested and will be held accountable.
@ Mother Hen says:
October 21, 2010 at 8:45 am
You said, in part:
The sudden urge to identify the man in the photo, coupled with the end result being that the identify of this man would not be disclosed, makes me want to know who this person is even more. For me, this brings even more attention to the “man” and perhaps a different intended purpose for the TWEET.
_________________________
Any ideas about what that different purpose was? And would it be helpful in Ky’s case?
I Care says:
October 20, 2010 at 8:30 pm
“Terri (in my opinion) could have absolutely pulled this off all by herself.”
I think it would have been the easiest for Terri to pull this off all by herself. There definitely would have been less risk. My question is, then, was it something she planned or was it an accident covered up or did she hurt/kill him in a fit of rage and felt she had to cover it up. I think if she planned it based on her whereabouts shortly after the SF, then drugs were involved to render him unconscious or she killed him prior to her errands. Originally I believed she hurt him in a rage (either from steroid use or personality) and then disposed of him to cover her ass. The hows and whys of him going out of the school to leave with her are huge unknowns in this scenario and from what we do know it appears that he was not seen leaving the school with her. I do believe if he was, there would have been an arrest by now.
puzzled says:
October 21, 2010 at 12:53 am
Cbickel says:
October 20, 2010 at 9:23 pm
“Layla I would add this to the unknown list: Do we know for fact that TH and KH lifestyle TOGETHER play no part in what has happened to Kyron?
When all is said and done we really don’t know the answer to this question.“
I think the answer to this question will fill in many of the blanks.
MockingbirdSings says:
October 21, 2010 at 1:44 am
“I did not intend the predictors to lean toward TH – any event that might give us a hint or a push in another direction is fine.”
I did not mean you were intending that predictors lean toward TH, but the predictors listed did anyway. It’s more likely they did, because they are things we know as fact. I share your frustration about separating fact from rumor and I’m sure that you find it just as difficult as I do to remember which is which at times. I thought I read somewhere reliable (don’t remember where and don’t have any links) that Terri was to drive Kyron to the specified place to pass Kyron to Desiree for the weekend.
There are so many things we don’t know and if we did, those facts would be added to the list, i.e. are any parents at Skyline pedophiles, was Kaine having an extramarital affair, who else TH was playing with, was it a male or female seen close to the truck, who did the other white truck belong to, etc ad nauseam. A question which still bugs me is why so much scrutiny of DeDe? Was it just because she stayed with TH, got phones and whispered outside with TH after Kaine left? These circumstances combined with her proximity to Skyline on the morning of June 4th raised enough questions to LE that her picture was published in flyers! I’m beginning to have a difficult time believing LE used these easily explained circumstances to try to tie her to a heinous crime. Lately, I’m starting to wonder if the impetus for LE to believe she may be involved was her previous close tie to a certain individual who wishes not to be named. Was it from DeDe’s tie to that individual LE learned things they wish they did not know?
enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:24 am
“I think there could be another person involved, but for those that think that way, I have a few questions. Did TH and RS and a third person all cooperate in this abduction? Did RS and a third person conspire for pay backs against TH? Was TH unaware and RS was teaching her a lesson and someone took advantage of him and took off with Ky?”
These are the sixty four thousand dollar questions! I can see just as likely a scenario where a parent, grandparent or whomever at Skyline lured Ky to their vehicle, molested, killed and disposed of him. Active pedophiles are not necessarily known. There are many skeletons in many family closets. If it weren’t for TH’s totally weird behavior following Kyron’s disappearance, I would lean heavily toward something like this happening.
Mother Hen says:
October 21, 2010 at 8:45 am
“Was the Mayor’s TWEET a proper form of communication concerning his question to the public? I don’t TWEET myself. I find it sort of a Hollywood-ish form of communication. That is just my opinion, of course. Nevertheless, I don’t think that TWEETING a serious inquiring was appropriate and stood out big time to me. As limited as the communication was concerning the man in the photo, it made it larger-than-life to me in the scheme of things.”
I have to agree that the Mayor’s actions in this particular instance were completely “off.” (I won’t mention his many other off actions.) Why not another peep (or tweet)? What I find most compelling is that it was reported that the man had been identified and cleared, but now that report has vanished.
Do we know if the GJ has recessed or are they working on preparation of a True Bill? Or not.
Thank you Blink and everyone here who refuses to give up on finding Kyron and bringing those responsible to answer for their crimes.
We have been up and down that, but lemme see what you have and let’s go from there, k?
B
lyla says:
October 20, 2010 at 7:54 pm
@16.puzzled says:
October 20, 2010 at 1:36 pm
——————————————–
Puzzled..so right. Ok..there are more unknowns than knowns. Let’s start a list of unknowns.
1. Did Ky have Drs. appointment June 4?
2. Was Ky last seen walking toward the South exit?
3. Was Kiara seen in the school with Terri?
4. Is it fact Terri left the school without Ky?
5. Has GK been ruled out?
6. Did Kaine know about Ky’s “alleged” doctor’s appt?
I am adding to the list (#6), because I was thinking just last night about the doctor’s appt. Wouldn’t this be fairly easy to know/find out for sure by asking Kaine? Wouldn’t Kaine have in fact known if Ky had a doctor’s appt that day or the following Fri? My point is, my husband knows in advance about every doctor’s appt our children have and I would assume maybe Kaine had heard something about it at some point or another before hand, although maybe not. If so, is what TMH told him and the teacher the same … or something different? I would think that could potentially be significant. Why lie about something as minute as when a doctor’s appt is unless you’re planning something devious and don’t want anyone to know about it?
I’m not saying all dads are in the know about things like that, but I would imagine there might have been a convo at some point in time before it was to have happened that Ky had one. TMH made it sound as if she told the teacher it was the following week but the teacher made it sound as if it was the day of the SF which is possibly why she didn’t think anything of Ky being absent. And IIRC, didn’t Ky himself allegedly tell one of his friends (TP?) that he had a doctor’s appt that day? If so, then that brings up a whole different hinky-ness in my mind because TMH KNEW when Ky’s SF was, the times, etc. She allegedly helped him work on his project and also would’ve know how important it was to him to be there for all of it. Why would any parent purposely schedule a doctor’s appt for their child on the day of a really big school event knowing their child would have to miss it??? Hel … loooo … ooooo! Bells and whistles go off all over in my mind right there. My opinion is that no loving and innocent parent would … unless of course said parent had a personal agenda of their own which was not in the best interest of said child.
If TMH told the teacher one thing (part of her plan to avoid anyone thinking Ky’s absence was unusual so she or whoever mystery person is could lead him undetected out of the school), but told Kaine another, wouldn’t that automatically signify a lie and set off some suspiciousness? I don’t remember where I read it, but I thought I remembered reading in one of the news sites that TMH said that Kiara had a doctor’s appt (for her ears, hence not Ky). If that’s true, then does it change everything completely? My personal opinion is that whatever the deal was w/the doctor’s appt that TMH was specifically trying to create confusion among all the people she supposedly mentioned it to and why would someone do that? I mean, really?
Do any of us know whether Kaine knew anything ahead of time about the actual date of the alleged doctor’s appt? I don’t think I’ve ever read anything about that part. Does LE know?
#
1. Did Ky have Drs. appointment June 4?
2. Was Ky last seen walking toward the South exit?
3. Was Kiara seen in the school with Terri?
4. Is it fact Terri left the school without Ky?
5. Has GK been ruled out?
lyla says:
October 20, 2010 at 8:03 pm
6. Has DDS been ruled out?
7. Has RS been ruled out?
8. Was there a reliable witness(es) who saw someone other than TH near the truck that morning? Was that someone M or F?
9. Does LE have anything other than cell phone pings to indicate TH may have been on the island?
lyla,
I too would absolutely LOVE answers to all of these questions. Blinksters unite! Does anyone know any of them for sure as facts?
I just can’t believe several adults would help TH kidnap and kill Kyron. We make guesses at her motives…but what would be theirs (RS & Assoc or other 3rd parties)? Even ‘bad guys’/'thugs’ don’t kill kids ‘as a rule’ and not just because some redhead asks.
It’s more beleivable for RS and Assoc to do this…they had their own motivation. If we are to believe RS at all, he wouldn’t agree to MFH…wouldn’t kill or arrange to have killed the husband of his lover…but would kill a kid for her? Doesn’t make sense…kidnap/kill her kid to pay her back…I can believe that. I still say TH really enraged RS when she called 911 in May with his wife and kids present. Personal revenge is a higher motivator for something like this. I could see RS being able to get help for his cause…can’t see TH getting it for her cause if it were to disappear Kyron. MOO
Blink – I recently watched a crime show on kidnappings of children. Is there enough evidence to conclude this could not have been a stranger/sex offender crime?
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Let me say it this way. It cannot be excluded, no.
B
Jeff D says:
October 20, 2010 at 8:30 pm
What would the police know that they wish they didn’t? Seems to me they would want to know about ANYTHING illegal. Assuming so then they know of something that effects this case the is LEGAL…..but…perhaps unsavory…or immoral….I propose it is something that could effect their ability to get a conviction in a court of law….just enough about one of the people in this sad saga that has suffered loss but is not a suspect…and just enough to cast doubt in the minds of jurors about the actual suspects guilt…hmmmm
—————————————————–
Jeff D
I’ve thought about your comments and I agree with most of it, except what in your opinion is that answer? Honestly … what could possibly be “legal” that LE would NOT want to know about that would render an innocent little boy in danger and in harm’s way since LE labeled Ky’s initial disappearance as an “endangered missing” case? What “legal” thing would include a little boy getting kidnapped and potentially harmed as a result? What “legal but immoral” thing could warrant the case being upgraded to a “criminal case” after 10 days? If it’s legal but immoral that says to me a crime possibly wasn’t actually committed then, but I wholeheartedly believe it was. Why was LE looking on Sauvie Island in ponds, fields, etc? I’m not sure there was anything “legal” about this case the more than we hear.
I agree something really strange must’ve been happening in regard to Ky’s family or people they knew for an MFH plot to have allegedly been planned and for us to even be here discussing this right now, but what could possibly be in the “legal” but immoral category at the same time that would involve a little boy going missing as a result of it? Honestly … I have a few ideas, but I wouldn’t consider any of them legal. Immoral yes, but legal, definitely not. Please explain what you might be thinking … you have my curiousity piqued as I believe you might in fact have the golden question but what’s the answer?
Blink.
Not sure what is happening with posts of mine. Multiple times they never show up.
Last night is latest example: I posted @ 8:30 pm 10/20, but I never saw the usual “Your post is awaiting moderation”appear. When this happens (every few days it seems), if I attempt to RE-submit my post your system does say that “You’ve already submitted this post”.
So my posts seem to go into exile somewhere – Am I doing something wrong?
Trying again …
@enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:24 am
I see two camps here tonight. Camp #1 – TH did it herself. Camp #2 – There is a third person involved.
I think TH could have done it herself, but for those that think that way, I have a few questions. Why issue the flyer with TH and DDS? Why would DY and KH plead to her for information and not plead to her for the return of Ky? Why does LE consider this an unusual case?
@enumclawrose … I have gone back and forth between Camp #1 + Camp #2 myself.
Mainly because in Camp #2 the abduction of a child at a school would seem like it would be more difficult the more people that were involved. Maybe ONE other person along the line somewhere, but it’s hard to believe that a whole group of 3,4,5 people could continue to keep this huge secret so long. People talk ( to spouses or inadvertently mention some detail to a friend, etc) and eventually some info gets out. The more people involved – the bigger chance that someone would spill something by now. MOO, of course.
Now Camp #1 and your question of why KH + DY plead for info. I believe that although TH could be the sole one responsible for Kyron’s disappearance (her desire + her idea for Ky to be gone) – that she had help after the fact from ONE other person. In that case, chances are TH may really not know where Kyron is now. So KH +DY plead for anyone to come forward with anything they might know. They think TH may have possibly told different friends each little pieces of the mystery – but that these people don’t realize how big that little piece could be to filling in the big picture.
I specifically remember one news conference when KH + DY said that TH would often tell one person a little bit of a story and another person a different little part of the story. They thought that perhaps people that know TH may have each heard little seemingly trivial little tidbits from her about Ky that these people might not think mean anything in the big picture.
BUT … if all those people with little bits would speak up – then it might help fill in a much bigger puzzle.
Lord help us find Kyron,
God Bless KH, DY, and TY. I honestly cannot imagine how they make it thru the pain and sorrow of each day.
(and now I’m crossing my fingers that this post will make it thru the system and not be lost in cyber-space)
@ enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:24 am
“I see two camps here tonight. Camp #1 – TH did it herself. Camp #2 – There is a third person involved.”
AND @ Cbickel says:
October 21, 2010 at 6:46 am
“familythx….I’m pretty sure one of the reasons for the questionnaires that LE passed around not once, but twice, was to check handwriting. That is speculation on my part, but it sure makes a lot of sense to me.”
I have been doing a lot of ‘back to the beginning’ reading as well, independent of the recent comments. It’s good to know that’s an on-track thought.
As outside parties get considered more and more (or less!) I went back to the flier too. The fliers were released ‘for a specific audience’. They were fairly limited in their distribution. If you were an Average Joe in Portland, not a Skyline neighbor, not a big news follower, you likely would not have heard about the fliers or seen them. So, that is a pretty narrow group the fliers were distributed for.
If LE were trying to make an ID of someone and they had no idea of that person’s identity, wouldn’t they broadcast those pics/fliers to as many as possible (ala Mayor Sam drawing attention to one photo)?
If LE did not do that, who would they be looking for without knowing their identity already?
There have been so many good posts the past couple of days.. I’m sorry I haven’t been able to contribute and call out every good post.
Additionally,
Was the action a token acknowledgment (short-lived) for a viable public inquirty through limited media only minutes after WW story posted. Was this truly effective, or was it potential CYA actions at that present time and/or in the future? WHO identified the “man?” Was the identification a result of the TWEET? Would be nice to know.
IMO, there is quite a bit to ponder here.
Malty says:
October 21, 2010 at 3:21 am
with all these sex offenders out and about
I think maybe one got Kyron
~~~
this is way O/T … but I had a dream last nite …
**Disclaimer** .. I know there is therapeutic value to dream analysis, but I don’t do dreams … however, last nite I had a very vivid dream, … someone I know was involved with a man (named Richard) who I then read in the paper had been arrested in the kidnapping of Kyron Horman and was a pedaphile. (short version)
I tried to remember the details (longer more involved) to write down after waking up, but .. I’m not a psychic and I dont’ make predictions and hardly ever remember dreams ..
I am not sure if the average person is aware how difficult it is for LE to switch gears when they lock in on a “suspect”.
B
————————————————————————
Blink,
Are you hinting that maybe TMH is not in fact the golden suspect LE originally focused on and now are having to switch gears to investigate someone else who might have originally flown under their radar? Am I missing something? This case has me going in circles. I can’t even tell you how much I want an arrest in this case … but one that will also hold up in court mind you of whoever is responsible. I’m at a loss for words of how much emotion I’ve experienced with this case. It’s so hard waiting with still so many unanswered questions! I want LE to do their jobs, dot their i’s and cross their t’s, but at the same time, I just really want Ky brought home! He needs to be home!
@Mother Hen
Regarding our Mayor: No, it was not a proper form of communication. Read on:
http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/index.ssf/story/portland-mayor-adams-sometimes-a-no-show/afae9904f0344056bf57c5b095b41549
I am not sure if the average person is aware how difficult it is for LE to switch gears when they lock in on a “suspect”.
B
~~~
just like it is for us …
everything that can be known about TH, RS, DDS is known .. we don’t know it all, but LE does ..
there very well may be other agencies running investigations in the area, but any info they had that directly impacts this missing child, would be known by LE.
I know it’s the easiest to keep coming back to TH .. but there would have to be physical evidence linking her with this crime. Just tossing out ideas that she did this or went there … there has to be corroborating evidence to support the theory … and if there were, simple enough, Terri Horman would be in custody.
disregard TH as the prime suspect .. and look at what’s left??? an unknown third person who has not been identified or found.
Mother Hen 10-21 8:45 am
Like the new handle. To be clear, we talking about the photo of the plaid shirt with the child, not the photo of the man who resembles one of the janitors. Yes?
enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:24 am
Did TH and RS and a third person all cooperate in this abduction? Did RS and a third person conspire for pay backs against TH? Was TH unaware and RS was teaching her a lesson and someone took advantage of him and took off with Ky?
~~~
Rosey .. I think this has been one of the prevailing theories, at least on the blogs, but take TH out of the equation and these questions fall away. There is still yet a different theory out there that involves multi agencies, someone under investigation prior to June 4th and the capability to disappear a small child so that there is no trace of where he is.
A bored unsatisfied rural housewife is not this person.
Cbickel: I agree with what you said about LE passing around questionaires to get handwriting samples. Very possible.
In my humble opinion, there is probably one person who matches, unless TH got someone else to write it for her. As far as Kyron going off with a stranger, I think a crime of opportunity would have left clues, because it would have been more haphazard. This seems to me to have been well planned. I go back to Stepfather TY, who said from the very beginning Terri was defensive and hinky in her behavior. I tend to trust his judgement, as I’m sure he’s interviewed many suspects in his career. I really hate saying this, but… a lot of parents drug their kids for their own convenience. My DH is a well known addictions expert and I do work in that area myself. You’d be floored at the adults who tell us that their parents drugged them as kids- cough syrups, benedryl, ALCOHOL (!), to keep them quiet, often while the parents drank or did whatever… I also keep going back to steroids… they can make sane people crazy. I wouldn’t be surprised if drugs and drinking combined with post partum depression made Terri periodically psychotic in her thinking. She projected her own feeling onto others, particularly Kaine. (Projection is when we think our own feelings are someone else’s feelings ie: I’m really pissed at you but think you’re mad at me.)
So, sorry if I’m rambling here, but I keep coming back to Terri and her complex, manipulative sociopathic personna. As always, just moo.
Ispy- Both Desiree and Kaine admitted they had recent issues with Kyron in terms of listening/authority at school. In fact, they went on to say they had concern that those very discussions with him may have caused him to leave with someone he would not normally follow (para).
I am not sure if the average person is aware how difficult it is for LE to switch gears when they lock in on a “suspect”.
B
————————————————
@Ispy
I think Blink is telling us LE’s top suspect is not TH. Ohhh, then who is? Someone we don’t even know of…yet? I am “puzzled”.
Mother Hen says:
October 21, 2010 at 8:45 am
But I will say THIS — Was the Mayor’s TWEET a proper form of communication concerning his question to the public? I don’t TWEET myself. I find it sort of a Hollywood-ish form of communication. That is just my opinion, of course. Nevertheless, I don’t think that TWEETING a serious inquiring was appropriate and stood out big time to me. As limited as the communication was concerning the man in the photo, it made it larger-than-life to me in the scheme of things.
The sudden urge to identify the man in the photo, coupled with the end result being that the identify of this man would not be disclosed, makes me want to know who this person is even more. For me, this brings even more attention to the “man” and perhaps a different intended purpose for the TWEET.
———————————————————————-
Gee … where is everyone this afternoon? It feels like I am the only one here. Just noticed that all my comments are appearing in a row, one right after the other without any other comments in between. Did I scare everyone away or something? LOL Okay, back to being serious.
Mother Hen ~
Hmm … now I get it. I think maybe anyway, but I’m almost afraid to if I think I even have any idea what you’re alluding to. Higher-ups potentially a little too closely connected in this case possibly? But if so, how and why? Wow, is this my overdose of caffeine from my morning coffee talking? I can’t even believe I just wrote that! After reading your response more closely, I agree with you however. It does in fact seem a little odd considering although maybe I’m just missing something. Mayors normally don’t “tweet” or use social networking I wouldn’t think in their jobs “to the public”.
It may not be exactly what you’re saying, but at least for me anyway IMO, using social networking sites in that manner, under that circumstance, and considering the possible seriousness of it all comes across as kind of personal and too attached for my comfort level. People tweet their friends, family, etc about personal matters … not the general public and everyone in between, especially if you are someone in public service. Unless of course, the tweet was potentially to give an indirect heads up to someone paying attention. All speculation of course, but oh my gosh where the mind will go thinking about the possibilities of that even being an issue. I don’t even want to go there.
I have heard of things like this in the world and don’t in anyway deny they sometimes happen, but it scares me to even think about the realm of what this could possibly mean to the case and how big it may in fact really get if there is any truth whatsoever in it. Maybe my husband’s right … maybe it really is time for bleach to be poured into the gene pool if this is what our species has become.
Peace be with you Mother Hen.
RE; MockingbirdSings says:
October 21, 2010 at 1:44 am
Midwest Mom says:
October 20, 2010 at 2:19 pm
@Mockingbirdsings
I believe one of the predictors prior to June 4th is Kyron was scheduled for visits with DY and TY every other weekend. What weekend those were scheduled? However,when Kaine was asked the question if he knew that Kyron was supposed to be going to Medford on the June 4th he stated no that he did not. This leads me to believe that there was a change from the normal weekend visits.
And I don’t recall it EVER been mentioned if Terri was “in the know” of the visit to medford. anyone???
if not, then that poses a whole new set of questions.
——————
[MockingbirdSings' response]
Every other weekend is a common visitation practice but did anyone say that was the agreement for Kyron? I remember hearing that Terri often drove him to Eugene to meet Desiree halfway, because I suggested in a post that perhaps she delivered something else to Eugene as well, and some people said why didn’t Kaine do it. I don’t remember hearing Kaine say he didn’t know about it for June 4th – we did say maybe Kaine came home early for ice cream because Kyron had to go to Eugene, but I think that was a guess.
I suppose I need to go back to the beginning interviews and see what was actually said about the weekend exchanges – anybody have it on your dry erase board at home?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When I read the comment from Midwest Mom yesterday, I also couldn’t remember reading that Kaine was unaware that Kyron was to go to the Youngs on June 4th. I delayed asking about it before looking into early interviews. But, now I do seem to have a shadow of a memory of contemplating whether Kaine’s confusion as to that night’s visitation transfer was intentionally fostered by Terri. And if so, why & how might that play into the abduction?
I got as far as re-listening to the NBC Dateline program, Little Boy Lost. I had only seen parts of it soon arter it aired. Now it appears that the whole of it is online. (No mention of the the visitation rotation in it.) For those who are interested here’s a link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38420266/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/
This thought of mine comes back to me time & time again;
A ransom note was planned to have been read by Kaine earlier than the end of the school day. The assumption (of the abductors) being that Terri would/could convince him to respond wthout the involvment of LE. Something went wrong and Kaine didn’t get the note/glasses before the bus arrived and then the plan further unraveled when the school got involved; notifying LE and Desiree.
IF;
1) Kaine received a ransom note before the arrival of the bus;
2)Terri were to have convinced him to act upon the note without the involvement of LE (including Desiree with her detective husband);
3) Kaine wasn’t compelled to contact Desiree because, as far as he knew she WAS NOT expecting to see Kyron that night;
THEN;
Kaine & Terri would have lots of time to respond, as instructed in the note, inprivate. [It takes Desiree 2+ hours, after work to get to the meeting place between Portland and Medford.]
P.S. According to Desiree, She and Terri had exchanged a number of (uncharacteristically short, for Terri)emails. Terri must have known Desiree was planning on getting Kyron that night, in my opinion.
In my last post I proposed that TH knew Elsy with the 2 children through RS. It may be that she was introduced to Elsy by DDS, who probably knew Elsy through her landscaping connections. Like Madilu, I’m trying to remember Occam’s razor, but it’s hard applying a simple theory when there are so many random pieces that just don’t seem to fit together. I believe DDS was involved in some capacity. I believe TH & DDS did their best to establish alibis during the time in which they KNEW Kyron would disappear. DDS really didn’t think she’d need an alibi b/c everyone would suppose she was at her worksite the whole time, but then maybe things took longer than she anticipated, so she wasn’t back in time for lunch. TH went out of her way to establish an alibi up until a certain time; as pointed out earlier in the case, no one can be two places at once, so TH could not have planned a better alibi unless she found someone willing to lie for her. I just don’t believe RS was involved b/c the little evidence we have points to TH’s involvement, and I highly doubt she & RS were on friendly terms after the May 911 call.
enumclawrose asked, “When LE says they know things they wish they didn’t, I think they mean either pillars of the community are involved including their own, or something more deviant than we can imagine, which in this day and age leaves WHAT?” The most horrible thing I can think of today is the Mexican drug cartels, which have begun to infiltrate the U.S. If LE has information to suggest that Kyron was handed over to someone involved in a drug cartel, they know it will be very sticky business attempting to get Kyron back alive, especially if he has been taken to MX. The drug cartels have no regard for authority; they have killed many LE agents who try to intervene in their “business” matters, and even kill innocent women and children to intimidate.
I’m not sure where Elsy fits in since she and her children were already missing on 6/4, but she may have had a role in getting Kyron to MX, or even a more active role in Kyron’s abduction if she had been in hiding and everything was planned well in advance (remember the funeral for the police officer that morning, too). She may be involved in a drug cartel.
Just MOO
#
I’ve thought about your comments and I agree with most of it, except what in your opinion is that answer? Honestly … what could possibly be “legal” that LE would NOT want to know about that would render an innocent little boy in danger and in harm’s way since LE labeled Ky’s initial disappearance as an “endangered missing” case? What “legal” thing would include a little boy getting kidnapped and potentially harmed as a result? What “legal but immoral” thing could warrant the case being upgraded to a “criminal case” after 10 days? If it’s legal but immoral that says to me a crime possibly wasn’t actually committed then, but I wholeheartedly believe it was. Why was LE looking on Sauvie Island in ponds, fields, etc? I’m not sure there was anything “legal” about this case the more than we hear.
I agree something really strange must’ve been happening in regard to
Justice23 says
Ky’s family or people they knew for an MFH plot to have allegedly been planned and for us to even be here discussing this right now, but what could possibly be in the “legal” but immoral category at the same time that would involve a little boy going missing as a result of it? Honestly … I have a few ideas, but I wouldn’t consider any of them legal. Immoral yes, but legal, definitely not. Please explain what you might be thinking … you have my curiousity piqued as I believe you might in fact have the golden question but what’s the answer?
#
~~~~~~
Justice23
I don’t presume there is a connection between the immoral info and the crime, other than, now that it is known, casts an ugly shadow on someone other than the POI. Someone close enough that a good defense attorney can squeeze ‘reasonable doubt’ into the jurors deliberations.
lyla says:
October 21, 2010 at 1:36 pm
I think Blink is telling us LE’s top suspect is not TH. Ohhh, then who is? Someone we don’t even know of…yet? I am “puzzled”.
~~~
high five to Lyla from puzzled
Say TH is innocent…Then why wasn’t she out screaming about Kyron missing, going to the school re tracking every foot step, willing for any number of poly’s, why need bat phones,e mailing about Kyron, if she felt anything for kyron, the sexting would be the last thing on your mind, when a child is missing!I think the 2nd and 3rd person is Terri’s other personalities…Drugs,sex,unhappy with Kaine,to many partners, male and female..makes for one mean woman that loves money! I still think some one at that school was having a fling with her, she might have told them Kyron was being abused,etc. They got sucked in, and now…fear for their life.FRED MYERS X 2 = LANDFILL..LIKE ZARA
MOO
I’m a little confused about who said what, but I’m referring back to the comment under:
36.annals says:
October 21, 2010 at 2:32 pm
RE; MockingbirdSings says:
October 21, 2010 at 1:44 am
Midwest Mom says:
October 20, 2010 at 2:19 pm
@Mockingbirdsings
I believe one of the predictors prior to June 4th is Kyron was scheduled for visits with DY and TY every other weekend. What weekend those were scheduled? However,when Kaine was asked the question if he knew that Kyron was supposed to be going to Medford on the June 4th he stated no that he did not. This leads me to believe that there was a change from the normal weekend visits.
And I don’t recall it EVER been mentioned if Terri was “in the know” of the visit to medford. anyone???
TARHEEL COMMENT: I don’t think it likely that neither Terri or Kaine knew about the planned trip to Medford. Desiree doesn’t seem like the type of person that would just show up unannounced to pick Kyron up.
I have always thought that MCSO had tunnel vision and overlooked the possible real perp. Wouldn’t it be horrible if LE convinced KH that that TH had a hand in…MFH, possible kidnapping of Kyron or part of a plan to, or maybe murdered him and none of it was true? I can still see the MFH either stupid pillow talk or totally made up by someone not wanting to be deported. TH better be guilty cause LE has had the public trusting them. No, they didn’t say she was guilty but you always know when they a looking specifically at that person. IMO the court of public opinion says TH is guilty. A child is missing without a trace and maybe the correct suspect has gotten away with it all by now, a marriage is broken, another child has been ripped from her Mother, and DY and KH are surely feeling guilty cause everyone said TH is the monster and they think they should have known and protected Kyron. This is my opinion, my feelings on the situation. I admire and respect LE but I think they have fumbled somehow. Let’s hope I am completely wrong(as usual)and what we don’t know is leading to arrests and Kyron being found. If I am even remotely right, I hope LE changes gears super quick and starts peddling faster. I don’t want Christmas to come without this child home. Heck, I want him home yesterday!!!
Annals…wasn’t it DY who said in the interview that after she got off work June 4 she would meet whomever was bringing Kyron, I think it was gonna be TH and KH, also she switched out her other son at the same time. Am I right or wrong guys?
Taken from the press release from MCSO re: task force:
task force will complete an assessment of the investigation to include a review of leads that have been completed, pending leads and important historical/biographical information of persons involved
******The important historical/biographical info of persons*******
I believe that LE is looking at this crime as involving multiple persons. In my own opinion Kyron was taken by one adult, transferred to another adult and transferred, again, to a third adult. That’s why this is complicated.
What is going to surprise us is the identity of the third adult. What they know that they don’t want to know pertains to the third person.
Person #1 is known to LE and is probably talking
Person #2 is known to LE and is not talking (at least not the truth)
Person #3 is probably known to LE but this is why the case continues to drag on — they want to nail this person
I gave some thought to P#3 being the mayor. June 4th was during the Rose Festival and I think it would be difficult for the Mayor to be gone on a Friday during the festival without someone knowing.
What was happening re: festival June 4? It was Fleet Week. There were several Coast Guard ships and two Navy ships that participated. Sauvie Island can be reached by boat in the area that was recently searched. Anyone educated at the Naval Academy would be trained in boats.
It would certainly be surprising and upsetting for a Naval officer to be the one who harmed Kyron. It would also explain why DOD was a part of the investigation.
enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:24 am
I see two camps here tonight. Camp #1 – TH did it herself. Camp #2 – There is a third person involved.
———————-
@enumclawrose – I’m still looking for a campsite.
I have written scenarios with TH doing this alone, TH doing it with help, TH causing it by association with an unknown (to us) angry lover, an unknown (to us) other lover of Rudy who was angry when he dumped her for TH, a pedophile who took advantage of TH to get to Kyron, someone who wanted money and used or collaborated with TH. To my mind, in the way I wrote them (without additional evidence being found) any of them work, so I can’t commit and say I believe any one exclusively.
I try to think up possibilities to help figure out what happened, but also to see what might be brought up to show reasonable doubt. To me, there is reasonable doubt floating through everything we say, like fog over the pumpkin patch. I hope LE has a clearer view.
In addition, I have thought of and ruled out a staff member, a jealous person who wanted Kaine, an organized crime “get even” with TY or TH situation, DeDe and/or someone she knows, an angry hit man who didn’t get paid, an alternate personality belonging to TH, a real kidnapping for money, and a few others. I suppose they aren’t impossible, but they seem very unlikely either because the person(s) would be too removed from the school environment to make it work or because the target would more likely have been TH herself. (The personalities idea just doesn’t fit any mental health issues I see, but I only see her through a small window of media and family reports.)
I guess I will keep wandering.
Oh, yes, was driving through Lake Oswego yesterday and saw a white van with a trailer. On the van was printed “Sanchez Landscape Maintenance Service”. Alberto Sanchez Lopez (Woodburn) registered for the name in Sept. of 2009. Rudy gave up registration of the name “Rudy Sanchez Landscape Maintenance” in 2007. The state won’t let you use a name too close to another name (in their opinion). Rudy registered the “R. S. Landscape Maintenance” name in January of 2008 so it looks like he could have renewed his original business name if he had wanted to – just an observation.
justice23 says:
October 21, 2010 at 12:47 pm
I am not sure if the average person is aware how difficult it is for LE to switch gears when they lock in on a “suspect”.
B
——
puzzled says:
October 21, 2010 at 3:48 pm
lyla says:
October 21, 2010 at 1:36 pm
I think Blink is telling us LE’s top suspect is not TH. Ohhh, then who is? we don’t even know of…yet? I am “puzzled”.
~~
MMO – What if LE is switching gears on a different suspect? Maybe RS? I think they must feel that TH is still involved. If LE had changed their focus away from TH, wouldn’t they have contacted Houze? If LE concluded that Terri wasn’t responsible in any way, why would they leave her in a situation whereby she cannot/will not testify in a custody hearing to see her little girl? She’s still not talking. Unless there is a lot going on behind the scenes right now, LE still has Terri on their radar. It’s the other players that may be changing.
@evie:
You said, “The fliers were released ‘for a specific audience’. They were fairly limited in their distribution.”
___________________
IIRC, those flyers were distributed mostly on a geographical basis? I thought that LE knew a white truck was on the roads of interest, and wanted to find witnesses. To help ID the truck and, if possible, its occupants. As it turns out, there are several white trucks that could’ve been on those roads at that time.
FWIW, if I were a witness I couldn’t have told you the difference between one model and another. White truck’s a white truck.
Darn — lost my long post. So I will make ths a less formal and shorter version. Sorry.
@Panda – I was not noted for identifying or really making note of him. I only commented on the oddness behind the way he was identified. Also, I did not consider that picture being posted on Terri’s FB account. Very interesting if this was a ploy to give rise to the person in the photo and take all eyes off of her.
@Idahogal – Thanks for the post. I am not trying to take credit away from MCSO. Not at all. But, I consider Blink’s recent thoughts about the difficluty involved with LE changing focus in an investigation. I think if a change in focus is needed, then it should be acknowledged immediately with changes made or pondered. Admitting when mistakes are made OR simply the direction taken is incorrect shows incredible leadership and integrity. It happens. Not saying it has happened. We are still in the dark!!
@Beejay — IIRC, you hit on one potential scearnio in speculationville, which is a CYA for the school. Bring attention to, conceal particulars regarding identify, and move on. If this opinion / option were true, it would be helpful in knowing. I think it is at least potentially helpful to realize that the true identity of the man was withheld and as “S” has stated, the story on the identity of the man is now missing.
The problem is, and as you will recall, I am FULL of questions. My suspicions are put-forth in question format. I simply do not know, but as imaginations have run wild with other possibilities, I think we could all do that here. I could go so far as to wonder who really knows who, why, and how. Think of any time you were amazed at who knows who. Acquaintances resulting from a host of reasons. And I can’t tell you how many times I have wondered who so-and-so’s DADDY is based on the way things play out. I think of favors. I think of blackmail. These are just my thoughts based on strange communication and end results.
@S – Yes, Mayor Adams has some strange behaviors. And it is really compelling that the report is now missing.
@Lyla – Thanks for the interesting read on the Mayor. He certainly seems to lack some social graces. In the heat of the moment, nobody seems to know where he is (or what he is up to) but it seems that later they learn we is ill from working so hard or Tweeting……
@enumclawrose – we are talking about the picture that the Mayor referenced, which had a circle around the man’s face. I do believe it was one who resembled one of the janitors. But then we may as well as if they already knew who the other man was with the children.
Justice – As I stated previously in this post, I pose many questions because I want answers. I really don’t have any answers. I have alluding to some things that can go a number of ways. It is OK to speculate as you have. Many stranger things have happened!!!! We, the public, have been left wide-open to speculate. But that speculation has been mostly geared toward one person. But as we wait, and wait, and wait, we STILL do NOT have sufficient answers. Do we? I feel I am past the point of crazy now!
@19.justice23 says:
October 21, 2010 at 11:13 am
—————————————
On one of the news interviews with Kaine he said he was not aware of any Drs. appointment for that day> I’m sure LE has checked out the Dr. appointment scenario.