Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
Images By Klaasend
Related Posts
Related Posts:
1,553 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Riverpearl,
I am not certain where you live, but I am continually amazed at how small OREGON really is. I won’t be very popular for saying this, but it is my observation that if you don’t know “someone”, you won’t make it here. It matters not about a person’s integrity, accountability, positive contribution, or intelligence. In fact, based on my direct experiences, these traits and actions can be detrimental to a person’s livelihood. And I can say this based on experiences elsewhere.
Clearly, this is not 100% in all instances, but it IS based on every single experience I have had in this state with respect to trying to survive. It actually make me very sad.
riverpearl says:
October 23, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Is this “ALL’ standard in divorce proceedings ?
———————
Well, I don’t know about that, but I’m sure we agree there isn’t anything about this case that could be called “standard”.
My fields are counseling psychology and education, although I have learned a lot about the law in Oregon and how to research it from the needs of clients and family and myself as well as BOC. I find the law part most fascinating in relation to how people (without attorneys) think about and use it, interpret and misunderstand it, and try to get around it.
Here’s what strikes me most about this latest motion and the observations such as your comment: “I recently had asked how TMH could “have it both ways” ie. seeking & being granted an abatement while stating ANY questions would be answered w/ taking the 5th & than turn around & ask for “change in FAPA/RO visitation”.” My response goes back to a previous link I provided to a news station’s video about who Stephen Houze is.
A colleague said that Houze knows a case is won before you ever set foot in the courtroom and that he does his homework (working extra hours even by attorney standards). Houze is apparently a man of few words outside the courtroom, but he is obviously involved in every detail of what Terri and the divorce attorney do. His main comment was, “It’s the law.” He has said he just expects people to follow the law exactly, and he has won some of his cases using details others might have thought minor. I think he’s a successful attorney because the word “minor” is not in his vocabulary and a lot of other big words and ideas are.
If you look at what appears to be a double standard that Terri wants for herself in determining visitation, I’m surprised Houze let her ask for visitation at all, unless they are thinking it will look best if she seems to go after it, then “has to” withdraw because Kaine and the judge and lawyer are expecting too much of her. Then no one can say she didn’t try. I can’t see him allowing any of the things Kaine’s attorney requested, but they are certainly not unreasonable given the circumstances. My experience has been that family court does not have to rely on whether you have been proven guilty before the judge orders these things when a child is at risk.
I think Kaine and attorney are absolutely right to ask for these things before she is considered for even supervised visits, however, I know the kind of timeline needed for serving proper notice, agreeing on who is acceptable to do the psych eval, determining what questions are to be specifically answered by the psychologist, getting it scheduled and the report submitted, making financial reports, completing evaluations, etc., plus how many holidays are coming up. I would be amazed if it was done and a court decision made before March. If the case were to be wrapped up in January as some think, who knows what direction we would be going by then.
side note: If a psych eval ordered by a family court is done, that does not mean it is of any use in a criminal case. The purpose would be different, the specific questions answered not comprehensive enough, and an acceptable evaluator might not be the same since many psychologists have their own specialties and I would expect Houze to have his own list of professionals he would agree to as well.
I wondered at first if Kaine just wanted to stretch out the timeline for the visitation decision, hoping the criminal case would catch up – but I don’t think so. If it was my kid at risk, you can bet I’d want every possible safeguard I could think of – heck, she’s not even our kid and we all think that way anyway. (Tip: A wise parent will start a very specific log of any behavior changes after each visit ends and have additional verification if need be. Not saying there would be any.)
Terri may be a natural redhead, but she could also have a bit of grey creeping in – do you ever wonder who did her highlights before June 4th?
Elsa Mejia doesn’t look like Elsy to me. Are you thinking she might be a relative?
@Kimberly says:
October 23, 2010 at 12:13 pm
So while snooping around agaainnnn, lol, I checked AV myspace page, seen he had a friend listed with the Initials of DL, clicked on him, found a friend with the last name of sanchez, clicked on it and found someone with the last name of SOSA, Lastly , clicked on her and found
ELSA MEIJA
Link is below
http://es-la.facebook.com/people/Elsa-Mejia/100000643103724
PS. to “DDS/cousin” posting~
“cousin” posts a rather long “call-out” to “who wishes to remain nameless” except “cousin” uses “the name”.
Let’s just summarize “cousin really goes off on ‘nameless’ “.
Yup, after “cousin” posting “DDS” “words, “cousin puts a lot of words to ‘nameless’ “.
Oh, “DDS/cousin” also post she “isn”t really ‘listening/ or doing’ what her attorney wants now” … and she spends “most of her time @ SM” but “sometimes reads up @ where ‘he’ posts for her”. The SM “friend” of DDS is now posting @ times when “cousin” posts.
IMO ‘all the postings’ could be the same person & yes,” cousin” again is both “finger pointing @ other posters as being TH, DDS (even though “he claims she is living where there is NO computer or cell service”), KH, JW etc” while also “declaring those people have a life & wouldn’t be on-line”.
The “interesting aspect” to “DDS/cousin” posts is the other posters have become “less agreeable” to his “enlightenment posts”.
JMO -Yes, “they” just cannot “stop themselves”.
JMHO … questioning.
puzzled says: “This is just going to get uglier and messier … I’m not sure I get why Kaine is so hell bent on this divorce action now … if he is so sure that TH is responsible for Ky’s disappearance, why not let the criminal case move forward first and the divorce issue will be a given???”
I wondered too. I can think of some possible reasons. One reason is whether it might help with discovering anything related to the criminal case, but we have seen that is not easy – Houze is very good at “legal volleyball”. It may not have helped much in getting information out of her, but it has certainly kept her available and more visible than she would have had to be otherwise.
Another is more of a question – if they stay married for awhile and her legal bills pile up and serious mental health care is needed if she turns out to have a serious mental health problem, and who knows what else – how much more financial responsibility for her could Kaine end up with as her husband?
And – perhaps he simply wants to be able to make decisions about family and property without having to consult her or consider her interests. And – if he hadn’t filed, I imagine he knows she would have at some point when it didn’t “look bad” for her.
Just some thoughts.
I am not surprised at the wording of KH response to TH request for visitation with her daughter. I’m not sure what people thought he was gonna say….”TH is a meanie”….just doesn’t grab a judges attention. I’m not a legal eagle, but I bet this doesn’t surprise the ones here that are educated in the legal system. Anxious to hear their input on this.
The thing of it is, Kyron is still missing. I’m not so sure the divorce couldn’t have waited until Kyron is found.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
@31.justice23 says:
October 23, 2010 at 12:14 pm
jan says:
October 22, 2010 at 9:49 pm
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/05/second_mayor_sam_adams_a
lyla, did anyone notice here that Adams drives a white pickup?
————————————————————————
jan, I did. It is mentioned in one of my responses to lyla after she posted the link. Not only that but also his pants were unzipped and unbuttoned. No offense to any of you locals here, but you Portlanders sure have one heck of a mayor, lol. Wonder what skeletons are hiding in Mr. Adams closet? How did he ever get elected? He would definitely be an interesting dinner guest for sure, lol!
———————————————–
Skeletons for sure: Here’s a clip from Willamette Week:
“Sam Adams, Portland’s Mayor Sam Adams, has been cleared on Monday, June 22. Attorney General John Kroger said he won’t prosecute Sam Adams for his relationship with an intern who was 18 in 2005. Kroger said he had investigated Adams on 5 statutes. Kroger found there was no basis to file criminal charges against Sam Adams.
Adams’ political career as the Mayor is far from safe. Adams faces a recall campaign in July.
Jan 20 2009
Willamette Week Sam Adams & Beau Breedlove
The Willamette Week, a newspaper, showed Portland Mayor Sam Adams, some evidence that he was involved in a gay relationship with a male teenager, Beau Breedlove, in 2005. As late as last week, Sam Adams had denied he had a gay affair with Beau Breedlove.
However, on Monday, Jan 19, Sam Adams reversed his stance and admitted to a gay relationship with Beau Breedlove on his webpage. This was soon after Willamette Week published the story on Sam Adams on its website.
Sam Adams apologized to Beau Breedlove, who is now 21. Sam Adams apologized to voters and colleagues for lying. Adams said he did not admit his relationship about the Breedlove because he was afraid people would believe the rumors about him breaking the law by having sex with a minor. Adams supposedly said he had sex with Breedlove after he became 18. (Source)”
Can you guys believe out mayor? He also wanted to change a street name to “Caesar Chavez”, the street that runs right into Portland’s China Town? You can imagine how that went over with the Asian community. Yep, “Keep Portland Weird.”
@Kimberly!!!!
riverpearl says:
October 23, 2010 at 1:29 pm
@Kimberly says:
October 23, 2010 at 12:13 pm
So while snooping around agaainnnn, lol, I checked AV myspace page, seen he had a friend listed with the Initials of DL, clicked on him, found a friend with the last name of sanchez, clicked on it and found someone with the last name of SOSA, Lastly , clicked on her and found
ELSA MEIJA
Link is below
http://es-la.facebook.com/people/Elsa-Mejia/100000643103724
________________________
Okay, so the world is small !
Just how many degrees of separation in there in Kyron’s case?
This simply blows me away. WOW–just WOW.
JMHO
———————————
Just how many degrees indeed. Kimberly, I couldn’t follow with you from the DL page because I couldn’t bear to go through 21K+ friends to find the Sanchez.. you must’ve had a better trick or I picked the wrong DL.
What freaked *me* out was that the Elsa Mejia you found went to Beaverton High (right in the middle of our case area) and *where she is now*… in the state of Oaxaca Mexico. They are not in cities near to each other, but there is another target of interest in Oaxaca.
Still, AV didn’t go to that high school, and he’s a couple of years older than most of the people I tripped over. Connection or coincidence???
This is O/T but a very heart-warming article …
“Portland woman wonders if giving away $100 a day can change lives, and changes her own”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/portland_woman.html
“caused unimaginable harm.” The sheriff almost in tears — “we know things we wish we didn’t know.”
Knowing what he knows — KH “strongly” believes…
Whatever role TH played in this — and I think she’s absolutely central — she knew what happened to Kyron. Something that would make a sheriff almost cry. Something unimaginable.
What was TH doing after she brought such a fate upon this small child who called her mom? She was worrying about her hair. She was texting friends. She was hitting the gym. She was sexting someone she just met.
justice23 says:
October 22, 2010 at 6:23 pm
Justice-
Thanks to you and your husband. I live in a Navy town and have seen over the years that when something goes wrong heads do fly and commanders are held accountable even when they’re not directly involved.
To be fair to this commander, he was relieved on Aug. 25 and the Pacific Rim exercise ended Aug 30. The ship was in San Diego so they were clearly through with their part of the deployment. But it does sound like he was relieved of command soon after arriving in port.
He went from commander of brand new destroyer to a staff position with Naval Surface Force, U.S. Pacific Fleet. That doesn’t sound like a promotion to me. I haven’t been able to find much on him other than that. Not even a picture. And he doesn’t rate high enough to be listed on the NSF web page.
Thank you MockingbirdSings.
I have totally “gotten” Houze to the point I have questioned why KH does not have @ the very least a “2nd chair that is a defense attorney” (with his divorce attorney) -or- at least one on retainer.
IMO It just appears that both the FAPA/RO & divorce filing were not “worded correctly” & a defense attorney would “look @ wording differently”. It is not like the DA’s office would “proof read” someone’s filings.
The FAPA/RO filing & the divorce filing have put DA/ Kyron’s case square in the middle of the divorce. Doing so, IMO has given Houze possible access to DA’s case prior to “the reading of an indictment before a Judge”.
Oh, your post “Terri may be a natural redhead, but she could also have a bit of grey creeping in – do you ever wonder who did her highlights before June 4th?” makes me hope that KH subpoenas whoever THAT person is. Could be a WEALTH of information just “itching” to tell.
JMHO … questioning.
Cbickel says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:13 pm
The thing of it is, Kyron is still missing. I’m not so sure the divorce couldn’t have waited until Kyron is found.
————————-
Cbickel — Kryon will never be found. Never.
Could the divorce wait until after the trial? I’m not sure why they are pushing that. Do they think it is a way to get info from her that LE can’t get?
2.MockingbirdSings says:
October 23, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Elsa Mejia doesn’t look like Elsy to me. Are you thinking she might be a relative?
*********************************************************************
Hi Mockingbirdsings,
No I think she does look like our Elsy, same age range, just that the Elsa on facebook has makeup on and hair down. It may be a pick prior to delivery of her youngest baby. Idk, I just think they are one of the same appearance wise.
“Mother Hen says:
October 23, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Riverpearl,
I am not certain where you live, but I am continually amazed at how small OREGON really is. I won’t be very popular for saying this, but it is my observation that if you don’t know “someone”, you won’t make it here. It matters not about a person’s integrity, accountability, positive contribution, or intelligence. In fact, based on my direct experiences, these traits and actions can be detrimental to a person’s livelihood. And I can say this based on experiences elsewhere.
Clearly, this is not 100% in all instances, but it IS based on every single experience I have had in this state with respect to trying to survive. It actually make me very sad.”
Although I could contribute a fact-based diatribe in agreement with all you’ve said, I try not to go there anymore. My view has softened and I’ve worked hard at seeing the good in Oregon. My life changed completely a few years ago by following the advice I am about to offer to you. Move North. You will never regret it.
riverpearl says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:00 pm
PS. to “DDS/cousin” posting~
“cousin” posts a rather long “call-out” to “who wishes to remain nameless” except “cousin” uses “the name”.
Let’s just summarize “cousin really goes off on ‘nameless’ “.
Yup, after “cousin” posting “DDS” “words, “cousin puts a lot of words to ‘nameless’ “.
Oh, “DDS/cousin” also post she “isn”t really ‘listening/ or doing’ what her attorney wants now” … and she spends “most of her time @ SM” but “sometimes reads up @ where ‘he’ posts for her”. The SM “friend” of DDS is now posting @ times when “cousin” posts.
IMO ‘all the postings’ could be the same person & yes,” cousin” again is both “finger pointing @ other posters as being TH, DDS (even though “he claims she is living where there is NO computer or cell service”), KH, JW etc” while also “declaring those people have a life & wouldn’t be on-line”.
The “interesting aspect” to “DDS/cousin” posts is the other posters have become “less agreeable” to his “enlightenment posts”.
JMO -Yes, “they” just cannot “stop themselves”.
JMHO … questioning.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
I agree someone is trying to make themselves look better in the court of public opinion. But why? If this person feels they will be exonerated when the matters of this case are finally legally settled. Who are they really trying to convince?
I’m sure many of you have already watched this, but thought I would post a link anyway. In this Dateline episode entitled “Little Boy Lost,” TY discusses his observations of TMH in the days after Kyron disappeared:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38420266
@Idahogal:
@beejay: You referenced someone with a military connection. I only want to know about the one person that we cannot name anymore. I can’t find anything, give me a clue or link, please. TIA.
_______________________
You so smart! I don’t think it’s worth pursuing, but some folks here do, just on a general weirdo basis.
@Idahogal: Oops. You wanted more info?? How can I direct you in code?
I know nothing more than what another researcher posted. The bare facts. I don’t know what you’d be able to do with it, anyway.
Would it be of interest to you if you discovered that someone in the public eye in this case served 4 years in the military at Ft. Lewis? There’s apparently public access to those records; someone sleuthed it and published it on SM and their own site, I do believe.
NelMel- What is being “motion inducing actions” is for the FAPA/RO. The FAPA/RO served to TMH on 06/26/2010 along WITH the divorce papers.
The FAPA/RO papers came with paperwork explaining TMH rights & the time span she had to contest/appeal.
I will re-post a segment I posted on October 15, 2010 at 10:09 pm :
THIS FORM MUST BE ATTACHED TO ALL COPIES OF THE RESTRAINING ORDER
TO RESPONDENT: A RESTRAINING ORDER HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE COURT WHICH AFFECTS YOUR RIGHTS. THIS ORDER IS NOW IN EFFECT. You have the right to contest this Restraining Order as set out in the paragraph(s) checked below.
http://www.courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/forms/2010FAPAUpdate/Packet1/NoticeReqHrgPacket-3-10.pdf
A REQUEST FOR HEARING must be made within 30 days after you receive the order. You must include your address and telephone number with your request for a hearing. The hearing will be held within 21 days, or within 5 days if you are contesting a temporary custody provision (not parenting time). At the hearing, a judge will decide whether the order should be canceled, changed, or continued. If you do not go to the hearing, the restraining order may be upheld (continued) and all matters decided against you.
If no hearing date has been set already and you do not request a hearing within 30 days after you receive this Restraining Order, this restraining order will continue in effect as issued.
______________________________________
Case No. 1006-66086 ENTERED JUN 28 2010
RESTRAINING ORDER TO PREVENT ABUSE (Family Abuse Prevention Act)
Kaine Andrew Horman v. Terri Lynn Moulton Horman
Pg #2 of 8 RESTRAINING ORDER TO PREVENT ABUSE
3.This order involves minor CHILDREN Judge’s Initials
B Existence of other orders concerning the minor children involved: 3B KM
[X] CUSTODY/PARENTING TIME MATTER PENDING: No child/ren custody, parenting time, guardianship or juvenile dependency proceeding has been commenced in Mult. Co. Oregon divorce proceeding (State/Tribe/County)
http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/08/Restraining_Order.pdf
______________________
As you can see TMH had 30-days to respond from date being served. She has let that come & go w/o nary a word. Retained defense attorney prior to divorce attorney. She is “trying to get it both ways”.
Abatement of divorce including parenting time & custody issues while “seeking change of FAPA/RO of parenting time/ visitation issue”.
Does that clarify the “motion” filed ?
JMHO.
_____________________
NelMel says:
October 23, 2010 at 2:30 pm
“In my state child custody is always a separate action from divorce” …
@MockingbirdSings:
You said “Terri may be a natural redhead, but she could also have a bit of grey creeping in – do you ever wonder who did her highlights before June 4th?”
TH is goodbuddies with her hairdresser & hairdresser’s spouse; they own the salon she used and seem to have been social friends as well. They are featured in several of her FB photos (incl Kitty’s first haircut).
@riverpearl: I’ve wondered if they haven’t already been to the Grand Jury.
Personally, I stopped coloring my hair that flaming color of red around TH’s age.. the gray was too much to keep up with. TH’s hair certainly looks a few shades darker than it did in June.
@ malty’s “I read some place lately that Terri will probably have brown hair sooner or later as it would be better in court”
I would not be surprised.. I have a professional friend who just went from blonde to brown on the advice of a business consultant, so she would be taken more seriously.
PS: meant to add: posts are coming up in strange order for me (can not make the RSS thing work correctly!) but I encourage everyone to check the previous page for new posts.. I found several today.
riverpearl says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:51 pm
The FAPA/RO filing & the divorce filing have put DA/ Kyron’s case square in the middle of the divorce. Doing so, IMO has given Houze possible access to DA’s case prior to “the reading of an indictment before a Judge”.
~~~
Exactly .. your post got me thinking, why would they do that … unless Kaine has reason to believe that announcement of arrest/s may be sooner rather than later .. and this is a stategy to delay a judge’s decision to let TH have any time with baby.
@riverpearl
we must travel the same road
I read the same about nameless and laughed
ref# 4 post
those 2-3 do get intertaining
@kimberly: Public Works Director Jaime Estrada–I looked into that a good while ago, but never found anything to suggest that “our” Jaime had ever served as public works director. If you want to pursue it, try to find a photo online of the PW Director; then compare him to Jaime Estrada, owner of Clean Factor (google it to pull up his website; his photo is there).
Kim: and thanks for the name of the ex-Leo on Sauvie; that’s the guy. He’s stepdad of the father of the Pumala kid who spoke on TV I think.
_________________
@melissab: I think you asked about all the relatives, roommates, etc. of Skyline staff, etc. being sleuthed. I haven’t done it. It’d be like a needle in a haystack without someone to target. And how would we what we were looking for?
Blink still maintains that Rudy and his associates are who we need to be looking at. I keep hoping a Skyline parent or neighbor will tell us who worked for Rudy. He had a crew of 3. A parent hired him under a grant and we know who that is.
I also wish someone would tell us whose name the UCC filing in Wash. State is under for the truck Rudy drove.
@ Kimberly says:
October 21, 2010 at 11:24 pm
I know it’s going back what seems so far (a day, lol) but here is a photo of your Jaime Estrada: http://www.cityofhubbard.org/public_works/public_works_staff.html
After all this, TH still isn’t considered a suspect or a POI. Do investigators really have anything more than just suspicion? If they do why don’t they show cause why Terri shouldn’t have visitation rights? I have a feeling this will all be worked out in the “court of public opinion” especially if they never recover Ky’s body. Without any closure it’s sad for everyone involved and the “perps just keep on “perping”. God bless Ky’s little soul…
riverpearl says October 23, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Correction: … The FAPA/RO served to TMH on ***06/28/2010*** along WITH the divorce papers …
Sorry for the date miv-up.
Thanks
Maty~ Thanks for info on “darken strands”.
I had not heard “that”.
But by the last “photo-op” of TMH it looks like the hair could be “going that direction”.
I guess a “girl gotta do what a girl gotta do” & “only her hairdresser knows for sure”.
JMHO … questioning … waiting … hoping that today is the day Kyron is returned to his momma.
===================
@Malty says: October 23, 2010 at 1:53 pm
I read some place lately that Terri will probably have brown hair
sooner or later as it would be better in court
I think it was on some blog
maybe you saw it also
I kind of brushed it off
as an opinion
red vs brown LOL
Would you explain Panda— Why do you think “-Kryon will never be found. Never.” ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RE: panda says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:52 pm
-TO-
Cbickel says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:13 pm
The thing of it is, Kyron is still missing. I’m not so sure the divorce couldn’t have waited until Kyron is found.
————————-
Cbickel — Kryon will never be found. Never
Bringing this over from the Hinky Meter:
“Terri made her bed…she has to drop the quarter to get the magic fingers…not Kaine.”
-AND-
“It doesn’t look like Terri Horman’s decision to sit back and protect herself is going to work well in family court.”
~Valhall
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/
panda says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Cbickel says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:13 pm
The thing of it is, Kyron is still missing. I’m not so sure the divorce couldn’t have waited until Kyron is found.
————————-
Cbickel — Kryon will never be found. Never.
————–
I know it’s strictly your opinion only, but I’m very interested in why you think so. I would really love to put together kind of a spreadsheet of everyone’s theories of what they actually think happened to Ky if I even remotely had the time, which I don’t. But I think it would be really interesting to get an idea of all the campsites we’re all in fact in. I think I’m probably not even in the campground yet with everyone else … my questions/theories seem to change hourly with this one and usually I’m pretty steadfast in my ideas regarding cases such as these. Can LE secretly waterboard TH and make her tell? Ugh, this entire case is really starting to peeve me off!
panda says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Cbickel says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:13 pm
The thing of it is, Kyron is still missing. I’m not so sure the divorce couldn’t have waited until Kyron is found.
————————-
Cbickel — Kryon will never be found. Never.
Why do you say he will never be found? Today, after watching my son play a very exciting football game (thinking of Kyron, would he have liked football?) I came home and watched “Cry in the Dark”. Remember, “the Dingo killed my baby” No one could believe or comprehend such a thing. I actually really believe that now. 5 years later they found the sweater in a dingo den. Dingoes have killed a number of children since then, provable dingo killings… I did a lot of googling after the movie. I pray the world keeps getting smaller and Kyron will be found, Morgan’s killers caught, the list goes on and on.
I think TH is very involved, just based on her not responding to RO and now refusing to talk even to increase her chances of seeing her daughter. Walking out on the poly, refusing to answer anymore questions. Screaming some kind of knowledge. That’s where she shows guilt. But I hate the “she went to the gym”. So did Kaine, why is that never said? Also being on facebook; when my sweet college daughters don’t answer the phone or text me back, I get on facebook and stalk them. Amazing the things I learn really quickly. That doesn’t mean guilt either. We all would do that,IMO.
Blink, is it true that the sexting wasn’t really sexting, just a picture that we all have seen of her body building? Vilify TH for her real shenanigans, but don’t for the things that Kaine did too. The whole family is off. If you really sit and ponder, the whole family is just off. No other way to say it.
I pray for the family (my birth family is weird and kind of off too) and Kyron, that someday, someway, something is found to bring peace.
I realized my “birth family” statement could be misread. I am not adopted, what is the term for the family you were born into? mom, dad,sister,brothers…we would never stand up to internet scrutiny. But my family; husband, me, kids…we are perfect;)!!
@Cbickel — Kryon will never be found. Never.
What is this statement? Why do you say that?
@Kimberly says:
October 23, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Oy vey, Kimberly! Well done…now we have what to do stew! The connection to Oaxaca is freaking me out…holy cow.
I’ve been circling that “nameless person” like a shark this past week, just holding it in so as not to fan the flames. I just don’t believe all of these are coincidences. Does anyone else suppose “nameless” and TH were acquainted? $50 million a year, that would be a big step up in her mind. I will have to finish my notes and submit to Blink. I got my eyes dilated this afternoon so I can’t see, dang…will have to work on it later or in the morning.
Go KH! Rackner is a smart, good attorney and she is not afraid or backing down. I would do the exact same thing, actually I probably would of done something much worse a long while back. Damn that red squirrel, anyway.
justice23 says:
October 23, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Has anyone seen this?
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/08/05/shades-of-the-kyron-horman-case-in-a-separate-washington-mystery/
***************************
Snipped from article about murder of 17 year old Mackenzie Cowell-article dated August 5, 2010:
>>Here, Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton has so far been a team player, declining to give details of the investigation even when cornered by the press. But up in Wenatchee, Chelan County Sheriff Mike Harum has gone rogue.<Harum made waves this week telling the paper that investigators believe Cowell was murdered by someone she knew.<
*******************************
This is interesting Justice23. I live in WA, this case has recently been solved-and Sheriff Harum was correct. Ms. Cowell's alleged killer was a fellow student at the hair academy they were attending.
Christopher Wilson, 29-there is a lot of evidence against him-her blood in his apartment, his DNA on duct tape that was on her body, etc. Here's a KOMO news article with some really scary things about this guy said by friends and acquaintances. I know that makes it hearsay, but if all this turns out to be true, he may have killed before. And the really scary part? A whole lot of people are sticking up for him and saying what a nice guy he is! Charming, like Ted Bundy….
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/104495859.html
@11.panda says:
October 23, 2010 at 3:26 pm
“caused unimaginable harm.” The sheriff almost in tears — “we know things we wish we didn’t know.”
Knowing what he knows — KH “strongly” believes…
Whatever role TH played in this — and I think she’s absolutely central — she knew what happened to Kyron. Something that would make a sheriff almost cry. Something unimaginable.
What was TH doing after she brought such a fate upon this small child who called her mom? She was worrying about her hair. She was texting friends. She was hitting the gym. She was sexting someone she just met.
———————————————
Re: TH, I think a motive has been established. The difficulty here is charging her with a crime…there is no body. Circumstancial evidence, probably. The reality, this may never come to trial unless there is a confession from the party/parties involved and/or a plea deal. Meantime we fumble through legalities of TH’s visitation rights with Kiara. We do not know and may never know what role TH played in Ky’s disappearance so we can’t assume her guilt or innocence. It’s up to law enforcement to present a case against her and/or others involved. For now the visitation issues will be in the foreground. Kaine gets the publicity because he talks and acts. This has to put pressure on TH who on the advice of her Attorney is told keep her mouth shut. The focus needs to remain on the missing child investigation.
Some are asking why Kaine is not waiting to get a divorce. If I felt my husband had kidnapped and perhaps murdered my child, the divorce could not happen soon enough. Simple as that.
This is PART #1 of 2
These “random comments from ANOTHER case” could very well describe Kyron”s case.
Could this be what happen ?
These are “random” Dr Van Zandt comments NOT made in Kyron’s case.
JMHO … questioning.
=====================
Comments made in 2009 3y/o male child kidnapping~
“Unfortunately, it is becoming a weapon of choice. When people aren’t getting money from the people working for or against them, they choose to kidnap a family member to threaten that person,” Van Zandt said.”
“This search … for the 3y/o appears to mirror … the 6-year-old Las Vegas boy who was believed to have been taken in retaliation for his Riverside grandfather’s massive drug debt to the Mexican Mafia, Van Zandt said.”
“Van Zandt said Mexican drug cartels are responsible for the majority of the 200 abductions reported in Southern California each year that didn’t involve family members.”
“”We’re going to see more and more cases in this country,” Van Zandt said.”
“One of the gunmen threatened to take …the 3y/o to Mexico and kill him. He warned … the mother not to call the police.”
“Family members usually know the captors, Van Zandt said.”
“The search for a kidnapping victim usually starts with the family, Van Zandt said. Investigators plead with family members to divulge anything in their past that could point to the captors and lead to the child’s safe return.”
“Unless the family knows who did it, the challenge is going to be to identify someone with knowledge or willing to indicate they have the child,” Van Zandt said. “It’s going to take city, county, state and federal coming down like a bag of bricks on anyone, using arrest warrants and cross-border activity.”
“You just try to bring every resource you have available to bear,” he said. “Because you don’t have a lead, you can’t presume anything, so you just start backtracking. You don’t know if it’s somebody who knew the victim; you don’t know if it was a stranger. You’re just trying to cover every base.”
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_kidnap07.40c6f72.html
PART #2 of 2
more Dr. Clint Van Zandt comments~
” … two assailants fled the home with stolen cash and other family possessions, to include a cell phone, taking ,,,the 3y/o … with them. As they left, one of the kidnappers shouted, “I’m going to take the kid to Mexico and I’m going to kill him,” further telling … not to call the police. As the kidnappers are not believed to have left a ransom note, the stolen cell phone may be the only means the victim’s family and authorities have to contact the men holding the 3-year-old.”
“This case brings to mind the October 2008, home invasion and kidnapping of six-year-old … from his Las Vegas, Nevada home, one done under circumstances similar to that of … 3y/o. …. home was also ransacked and its residents were tied up before the assailants kidnapped the young boy. In that case investigators quickly identified … the… grandfather, alleged at that time to have stolen millions of dollars from Mexican drug dealers, as the likely motive behind … the kidnapping, an act that was believed to be a direct message from the “south of the border” drug cartel to grandfather, i.e., “give our money back or else.” In that case investigators believed methamphetamine the drug of choice that was being moved across the local international border by the drug cartel members and that grandfather was a money man for the cartel. … the 6y/o… was recovered alive at a downtown Las Vegas bus stop some 87 hours after his kidnapping. His kidnappers probably released him due, in part, to the pressure being placed on the local illegal drug community, with dozens of search warrants served and many arrests made in the search for the kidnap victim. It was a simple cost-benefit analysis for the kidnappers, “too much law enforcement pressure to obtain the release of the boy, therefore release him and reduce the pressure on them.”
“Many cities in the U.S. have experienced an increase in Mexican drug cartel-related activities, to include kidnappings. The use of kidnappings for ransom and even for revenge purposes has caused Phoenix, Arizona, to be second only to Mexico City as the kidnapping capitol of the world…”
http://www.livesecure.org/kidnapping-of-3-year-old-california-boy-may-be-related-to-mexican-drug-cartel/
” … the clock is ticking against investigators and once again the life of a young boy hangs in the balance. If drugs and drug cartels are involved, there may be secret negotiations going on between family members, the authorities, and the cartel members to bring about the safe release of young 3y/o. ”
“It appears, however, that Mexican drug cartels are here in the U.S. to stay, and kidnappings such as these are just the tip of the ever growing iceberg that looms across the southern part of America, slowly encroaching, like the ice age, across our entire country.”
http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/05/06/2782877-kidnapping-of-3-year-old-california-boy-may-be-related-to-mexican-drug-cartel
Post Script~
The 3y/o was found alive in Mexicali, Mexico. The boy had been dropped off @ a government bldg in border town Mexicali. His head was shaved but he was safe. The boy’s hair had been shoulder length brown curly hair. He did not seem to be afraid or traumatized.
http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/05/06/3-year-old-kidnapped-boy-still-missing/
@Panda….what a horrible thought, to never find Kyron, but you could very well be right. As for getting info from her, I personally think they have gotten all they are going to get from her. We don’t really know if she’s talked to LE thru her lawyer or not, that’s not something that LE would leak, and seems her atty. runs a pretty tight ship so I doubt he’d leak something like that either.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
@ Mother Hen says:
October 23, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Riverpearl,
I am not certain where you live, but I am continually amazed at how small OREGON really is. I won’t be very popular for saying this, but it is my observation that if you don’t know “someone”, you won’t make it here. It matters not about a person’s integrity, accountability, positive contribution, or intelligence. In fact, based on my direct experiences, these traits and actions can be detrimental to a person’s livelihood. And I can say this based on experiences elsewhere.
Clearly, this is not 100% in all instances, but it IS based on every single experience I have had in this state with respect to trying to survive. It actually make me very sad.
———————-
Interesting. I have re-read your words a few times. I don’t know Oregon at all — have never been west of Chicago — but many people in the many places I’ve seen, including seven countries, could have the same assessment of their world and would echo your observations.
People are not the same wherever you go. I have never liked that cliche. People are different. And if you are the newbie, they will make sure you know you aren’t one of them. This is common, but I think people in our society try to tell themselves that it’s not.
I see TH this way. All I’ve read of her — while trying to discount some purely spiteful comments about her — tells me that she did not feel she “fit in.” She tried to fit in. And she didn’t, and she became possibly a bad person for it. She had very pool social skills and everything was fluff and appearances to her.
I sense she was a hovering, overcompensating wife and mother who tried too hard, and people didn’t respond to her well.
A person like that can become bitter, or worse, feel the need to lash out and do it in a big way. “Getting even.” All the slights, all the pressure to be perfect, all the hints that other people weren’t really on board with her personality. Did she just always feel very unliked? No excuse for becoming either a careless fool who might have cost a boy his life, or a murderess. But people can become so self-absorbed, when they feel they are rejected by others, that they make that one big huge fat mistake.
Where I live – for over 30 years — I still am very aware that I am not considered a “local.” It’s funny how people have different views of their environment. I would call my region a closed, unfriendly place where you need generations of lineage and connections to have a social life. Others, born and raised here, would say that this is a warm and friendly area. Yikes! Two very different perceptions.
Terri Horman, I fear, is straight out of that Ken Kesey novel, “Sometimes a Great Notion.” That was one of the most depressing books I ever read, set in Oregon. She’s the person who discovered her true place among a tight-knit community, didn’t like her place, and simmered over that for years. I think she’s going to be revealed as a very damaged, inept woman who failed to understand that you cannot force people to like you, and that you can’t punish others for that. She punished many with her unsavory behaviors, which, had they not led to this crisis with little Kyron, would have probably just had Kaine divorcing her at some point and having her retreat to yet another hurried relationship. But she made a terrible decision at some point, I think now, because she cannot communicate her frustration over being not adored.
Some people adapt to an unfriendly world. Others do not, and Terri Horman did not adapt. G-d help her if she hurt Kryon on purpose, and G-d forgive her if her associations, as she tried to fit in, caused Kyron harm.
Panda-
Just curious here. Why do you think Kyron will never be found? Can you elaborate on that please? TIA
Blink,
I know you’re busy. Your response to my last post was re:the difficulty LE has when changing direction/suspect. Your position is that Kyron didn’t leave with Terri, but did leave with someone he knew and felt comfortable with, IIRC. O.k., we have a boy leaving with someone he knows and trusts, who can fly under the radar, and has encountered a fate that makes a seasoned Sheriff nearly lose his composure at a Press Conference. Human Trafficking/Pornography rank at the top of my list, what could be worse? Do you think “the things we wish we didn’t know” refer to TH or to the mystery kidnapper? TIA
NelMel,
You are entitled to your opinion. I don’t agree with most of it. Where I come from, it is far different than Oregon. Period. I did quite well for myself and did it all without dropping names. Didn’t need to do that. In fact, that sort of thing is looked down upon — and if it does happen, people are not bragging about it. It is more a sign of weakness than true success.
I know how Oregon operates. Thank you.
Idahogal-
Remember the Roloff Pumpkin Patch w/ “KHFundraiser” & there were people that had NOT heard/seen ANYTHING about Kyron ?
And for those not from Portland or familiar with the area, the Roloff Farm is NOT way out in the the boonies.
I was amazed that could even be possible.
So there is no true measure of how many people “know” or have “seen/heard” -fliers/billboards/TV/newspapers/newscasts etc of/about Kyron.
NelMel,
I’m sorry you have lived in a not so friendly place for 30 years. There must be something pleasant that keeps you there.
My overall thoughts about living in the United States are:
We are all free to live anywhere we want to. We all have the right to pursue happiness. The thought that people would try to make life difficult for another person, simply because they can or think they can, is rather sickening to me. I also find it abusive and immature. Perhaps I see so much wrong with that mind-set is because I am polar opposite. I go out of my way to help others, not hurt them.
I remember going to New York when I was about 8. I remember being absolutely horrified seeing a elderly bag-lady in the gutter. I said to my mother…”Does ANYBODY know about this!!!???” In my mind, it was unthinkable and in so many ways, it still is.