Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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Riverpearl,
It was part of an eventual off-topic discussion. But I was implying that merely being born someplace should not hinder others from living where they want to live and prosper. This is the US. My daughter was born in Oregon, but I hardly think that makes her a native.
You can scroll back if you want, but don’t want to be OT.
Amy’s Sister I so agree with you. Yates was left alone despite EVERYONE knowing what was going on with her! I think KH’s docs kinda sorta prove that TH has been coming apart at the seams since Kitty was born. Agreed there was always something wrong with her but I think it esclated after she gave birth. KH pretty much said so. This man is a twit! I’m sorry, yes I so feel for him but to put it on paper that you let your child stay in the care of a passed out woman and not get help or prove that you actively sought help for her makes him look not so good to me. No, this doesn’t help find our little Ky but KH brought it up. With the texts so graphic and James prolly computer literate I think I would have asked the judge to put a gag on this or parts of. Better yet, I woulda sent a little note atty to atty saying if you don’t drop this I’m going public with the texts and other things. I know in the back of DY’s mind somewhere she is saying karma’s a bit–, ain’t it Kaine? (In reg. to him NOT cheating on DY with TH) Ya know, KH and TH have been together more than five years, how do you not know someone in that time? If I couldn’t get to know that person in that amount of time I would be highly suspicious of something. My baby is the most important thing on this earth to me and my spouse is gonna act like he should or he’s gotta go! Mine is perfect so we’re okay! I’m so lucky!!!
This is all sounding like such a seriously dysfunctional family, with all the trimmings. Enabling, acting, drinking, partying, going through the motions, lying….yikes. G-d, I just want that little boy FOUND.
Our experience @ other PPS schools has been different from other schools & similar to others.
Elem’ Sch/ grades K-5: Classroom “volunteers” (parents) were never “back ground checked/finger printed. It eventually got to be that they asked parents to sign in /out just so they could “keep track” of parent volunteer hours, which were bragging rights for teachers but there was never mandatory checking in. Field trips were few & far between but they always asked for parent volunteers (& there were no back ground check/ finger print requirement). IF the class was going on a field trip that require parents to drive you needed to show proof of insurance. There was suppose to be 1 un-locked entry (main doors) but there is a side door that is constantly left propped open &/ or children will let people in @ that door.
Middle Sch/ grades 6-8: The kids are kept on a tight schedule. Basically like a high school schedule-changing classrooms for each subject. Not really parent volunteers in classes much. Parents could come & go in building. But an excellent school & staff are very attentive to who is in school @ anytime. When they went on a cross country trip, the teacher did it after school let out & parents volunteers were needed (pay you & students way) but there were no background checks/finger prints. I know IF a parent did anything during school involving driving w/students in car, again had to show proof of insurance. Most of the time the teacher will use mass transits & will ask for parent volunteers to chaperone (again no bk grd/finger print). Only 1 open un-locked door (main doors).
High Sch/ grades 9-12: Teachers use mass transit to field trips. And as kids get older, many drive themselves. But it is common for parent volunteers/ chaperones to drive w/ proof of insurance. They are very TIGHT w/ signing in & out w/a ID sticker gotten in main office @ ck in, visible on your clothing.
There is a person, non-teacher who stands in the middle of the main hallway in front of the main doors that is like a drill sgt. w/ students, parents & visitors about going DIRECTLY to office when you step into the bldg. This tighter “security” is do to the influx of transfers from “rival” schools & has caused issues w/ possible “gang involvement” but the school will never “admit” to that. Only 1 open door (main doors) but the teacher side door to parking was usually ajar, as well another back door but they all feed to main hall & the “drill sgt.” is ALWAYS on duty.
I feel the Sheriff could of been very shocked @ the “security” through PPS, the “ease” of access to children in school, not just Skyline.
I have really had to re-consider “wide-open” means of entry/exit from school buildings & the blatant disregard for my children & others safety with exposure to to a “whole lotta unknown” people in the schools. I am every day “freaked” @ all the possibilities. I still believe this “whole” school access to children & the ease of entrance will be one of the “issues” that come out of Kyron’s disappearance.
JMHO
_________________________________
@Kimberly says: October 25, 2010 at 12:53 pm
@Justice Question for the locals. Do parent’s have to be fingerprinted/background checked in order to chaperone at major Skyline events such as science fairs, talent shows, field trips, etc?
I read the documents – thanks to those that posted them.
I agree with those that say that Kyron’s home was not as blissful as it should have been. But then again- if one was to focus on anything negative- it could be said for most homes/marriages could it not?
As for Kaine painting Terri as up all night drinking- ect and not giving Kitty stability…
They are in the middle of a divorce- I see nothing extraordinary in his negative depictions of Terri or her parenting- It seems run of the mill for an ugly divorce/custody battle- I do believe him based on Terri ‘s behaviors before during and after Kyron’s disappearance. Yet, I do not know that his accusations are in fact true.
IRT Terri’s total lack of concern over Kyron’s disappearance. THAT is what I find mind blowing-How can she have raised that sweet, innocent loving, little boy- and NOT show ANY concern over his welfare?
As for Dede, she does not seem to be a good friend. JMO How does a good friend supply an alcoholic with alcohol? Terri clearly has a problem with drinking and perhaps she would be thinking more clearly NOT sexting if she had been sober.
Those texts are very pathetic. Terri is clearly trying desperately to engage Cook in something he doesn’t seem too thrilled about- yet she keeps going father and father in her attempts to get him to ‘play’ along.
Terri came off as a very emotionally disturbed, over sexualized, self absorbed woman. And her constant yapping about her strength and benching prowess,coupled with her drinking- is VERY concerning in regards to Kyron and what may have happened to him and what Terri may or may not be capable of having the physical strength to pull off.JMO
One of the most important points IMO, that Kaine made in these motions, is making note of Terri’s unwillingness to aid in helping the police to find Kyron. His underscoring Terri’s lack of concern over kyron and her self absorbed needs also highlighted for me, a very emotionally disturbed person.
When you put all that together with the fact that Terri wants to have visitation, but refuses to sign documents or be evaluated- I am VERY concerned for Kitty’s well- being. Given the fact that she is a recovering- yet, off the wagon alcoholic- I think Kaines concerns are well founded. JMO
KH is still trying to get blood out of a turnip, and using his perceived-best leverage at this point (and, as divorcing parents so often do, using the kids to continue the parental fighting, as well as for leverage to get what they want. Buck up, little ones, a divorce is not about you–MOO.)
Right out of the gate, in his second point of the latest Affidavit, he says:
“Until Respondent begins answering questions about the events of June 4, 2010, I cannot support any contact between her and Kiara, even if supervised.”
Found @ lines 23-24 of the Affidavit:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/a/4/6/a466434a-e631-4fef-96c5-8162118cb371/petition.pdf
__________________________
SIGH. That, Blink, would be Kaine’s answer, I suppose, to your question about how this helps with Ky. IMHO, not at all.
P.s What makes this not a run of the mill ugly divorce is the fact that Terri was trying to kill Kaine- and was willing to do what ever it took to hire a hitman to do it. That and the fact that an innocent little boy, Kaine’s son, who was last seen by the respondent is now missing and presumed dead- Makes this so much more then just two adults in the midst of an ugly divorce. JMO
My prayers for the children and for Kyron , and his family.
In going over the docs, I think I have taken things differently then some other posters. I don’t believe that KH is saying that he WAS Kiara’s primary parent, but that being home most afternoons and evenings meant he was a co-parent. He is stating that he is currently her primary parent, unlike Bunch stated court when he said it was TH.
My other half works in IT and depending on the company, working from home that often is not at all out of the ordinary. Notice he didn’t say he was home all day with them but most afternoon and evenings. That gives TH anywhere from 5 to 7ish hours a day to go about doing what she does. Although my other half often works from home, he does not know the daytime schedule of our children, their appointment times or what we do when he is at the office. Unless of course I tell him.
What strikes me as unusual though is that if she was drinking as often as he states, why was TH allowed so much time around Kiara? If poor Kyron stayed in his bed until he was told he could come out, how come his toddler sister was out and about and up til all hours.
I am not saying he is lying, but I think it is not right to put all the blame on TH for that. And that is HUGE for me to say because I am not even near the fence in this case.
As for how these filings help find Kyron? If TH is now so intent on getting time with her, then I believe that LE and LR have guided KH to release this info to put pressure on her. To have her fight back and get in the court room and do what she needs to see her daughter.
But as a man desperate to know what has happened to his son and worried what could happen to his daughter, I am sure he is at a point where he’ll do anything.
evie says:
October 25, 2010 at 6:31 pm
@ TBZ says: October 25, 2010 at 2:49 pm “You should be able to go to this website to look up UCC filings. http://www.filinginoregon.com/ucc/index.htm ”
Why is it that when I look at the latest UCC filing from Rodolfo (3/16/10) the address that comes back for the Secured Party also comes back almost exclusively to a big bunch of Klamath County building permits?! Maybe they were just financing/investing in that new mini-mall. That address appears to be another spider’s nest of related companies. It was just the Klamath thing that seemed so odd.
_________________________________
Remember DDS is from K-Falls, so your “spider’s nest” of related companies “may” have connections…JMHO
MockingbirdSings says:
October 25, 2010 at 2:30 pm
This link says page not found when I try it. I will try other ways. Has it been removed or can others still find it?
—————————————–
Try this one. I believe the other one got cut off.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000645197805&ref=search
Interesting comment by Staton back in Sept found in Portland Tribune article. Is this what Blink may have meant by Ky’s case was “sexually motivated”? Other cases are likely to result from the investigation? Interesting. But terribly sad.
http://portlandtribune.com/news/story_2nd.php?story_id=128456956976042700
Staton said the investigation has so far produced a large stack of six-inch binders full of information on the case. “He suggested that a number of other cases were likely to result from the investigation, but did not elaborate on them.”
This is Avery’s sister’s post on FB back in Aug/Sept of last yr. Hmm … pretty sad when you’re celebrating the death anniversary of your own father. What’s up with this family?!
http://www.facebook.com/crazy4high?v=wall
Cameron Villarreal Party at my house for my father 1 year passed away on Sunday the 19th
enumclawrose says:
October 25, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Justice23,
In one of your posts today, you asked about Elsy Mejia.
————————————————–
Thanks, enumclawrose! That helps a lot. Can I ask another question now after reading all of that? So basically, are we assuming there’s some kind of “person disappearing” ring operating in the area which somehow connects all these people? RS, AS-S, BP, LP, AP, AV, etc? May I ask what the alleged “theory” is on the connection between all these people and this specific area based on everything you just detailed? Still a little fuzzy on that part, but I get everything else.
Looking down farther in KH’s Affidavit, he said that LE has told him that more than one circuit court judge has determined there is probable cause to implicate TH in both Ky’s disappearance and in the MFH plot (lines 22-24 of the affidavit).
So, if only one circuit court judge were involved, I’d think he could mean the female judge who’s presiding over the GJ.
Now, KH could be trying to buttress his claims, saying “more than one.” But, IF it is true that at least two cc judges were involved, who would that be?
1) could be 2 (or more) cc judges, each of whom issued arrest search warrants. But aren’t search warrants for evidence? And they don’t name a suspected perp who is tied to that evidence? If that’s right, then LE or KH would be making that deduction based on what/where the search warrants were for.
2) could be 1 judge who is presiding over the GJ. Plus 1 (or more) cc judges who issued the search warrants.
OK. How’m I doing? Corrections? Additional possibilities..#3, #4, etc…???
Blink,
Is there an expiration for indictments? Are they good
until or is there requirements to keep them active?
@justice23 & Kimberly – Regarding “satan’s spawn”, I don’t think he is involved in this. If you go throughout most neighborhoods, somebody will have someone connected to someone like this. Noted…evil and unusual, but just coincidence I think. MOO
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Cbickel says:
October 26, 2010 at 6:22 am
I’m pretty sure, and this is MOO, that the plan with this action is to make TH talk. I’m thinkin’ KH and his attorney along with LE, think if they slam TH on her mothering skills, especially in regards to Kiara, she will have to speak up.
As for the sexting…all I can say is this woman needs some serious help, if it’s true. Personally I don’t believe anything ANY of them say anymore.
All I know is now everybody is going to be focused on TH’s va-jayjay instead of finding Kyron and that infuriates me.
~~~
Cbickel, you are so right. Let me just add .. if Kaine participated in Terri’s sexualized lifestyle, that will come to light.
Blink asks, “And how does it help locate Kyron?” and I don’t know — other than giving us a more detailed view into Terri and Kaine’s life and their personalities. Amy’s sister does a very nice summation of the situation — and I have to agree, where was Kaine in all of this? Why was he not a more active parent? And it’s easy to call the kettle black and amplify things in a divorce hearing. After all, Desiree filed a restraining order against Kaine when THEY were separating.
Prefacing everything I’m about to say with MOO — All the above aside, there are three sides to every story and somewhere in all of this messy mess is the truth and as the truths emerge HOPEFULLY thy will lead to finding Kyron — whether simply through further pressuring Terri in her “hot spot” of wanting to be viewed as the perfect mother or through the continued detailed investigation and turning of stones.
There are NO adults in this entire situation who are blameless — in my opinion. And there are all kinds of explanations and excuses for each of them — including Terri, who MOO is certainly a very troubled person who needed some help and someone wasn’t paying enough attention or taking it seriously.
However — I’m still not convinced of her direct role in Kyron’s disappearance and I can only guess that whatever remaining facts need to be discovered to close this case are being protected by those in the know (Terri, RS, ??) out of fear. Otherwise we would see an indictment.
Edit my last post: remove the word ‘arrest’ from first line of my #1 possibility. I just meant “search warrants.”
So, per TH text’s to MC, she was using her original phone and then switched to a clean phone? Did I read those (freaking awful, can’t eat my breakfast now) texts correct?
@ kitjcat117 – I could not agree more with you about what KH was doing to help TH if he was aware of this “alcohol” problem. I am no TH supporter, but his statement about her drinking and him being aware of it makes me a little nervous about his parenting skills. Just my 2 cents.
Anniex9 says:
October 25, 2010 at 9:03 pm
New Documents Surface In Horman Custody Case – Good Day Oregon …
http://www.kptv.com/gooddayoregon/25509165/detail.html
Wow. Just wow.
Direct link to court documents.
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf
Strong stomach required.
——————————-
You’re not kidding, Annie! I’m speechless … completely. Wow doesn’t even begin to cover what I’m feeling right now. I am downright livid. Waterboarding, torture, whatever it takes to get this thing to talk. She is a disgrace to the human race. Disgusting … just disgusting.
Blink: You’ve suggested the Landscaper is the key (not actually quoting you) if I recall correctly. I’ve followed this from day one and usually read everyday.
After reading the court papers, reading the text messages and re-evaluating the things we do know (e.g. where LE has searched and questions LE has asked), I’m starting to wonder if Terri is actually physically responsible for Kyron’s disappearance.
I’ve always thought she was involved, but not necessarily in a “hands on” way. Now, I’m wondering if the evidence LE has and witness statements LE have received might actually suggest Terri DID get “get rid” of sweet little Kyron on her own.
If those texts actually were from Terri, her demeanor is severly innappropriate. She indicates she probably isn’t going to “get any” again. Why? Because she expects to be in prison? She obviously has no problem being less than truthful, even to her own attorney.
I know LE has asked about a White truck being parked below the school. Maybe Terri claimed she saw one… trying to blame this on Landscaper(s). Maybe LE wants to prove nobody else saw this white truck.
LE wants to know if anybody was seen around Terri’s truck in the parking lot at the school. Maybe she claims she found a note or glasses in her truck… LE might want to prove nobody else saw anyone around or in her truck.
At one point, Blink suggested the pings around the island might indicate somebody was in a panic. Maybe Terri planned this, but freaked out once she started.
We don’t know if the pings are from Terri or an associate, could be either. But, we know LE has focussed the searches for Kyron on the Island and at DeDe’s jobsite.
Kaine’s most recent court statement seems to read as though Terri may have done something to Kyron with Kiara as a witness. We don’t know if they just suspect this, or have some sort of proof.
I’m wondering if the sexual motivation is Terri being mad the landscaper (with whom she had a sexual relationship with). Could the landscaper be the key in that she told him she would get back at him for possibly rejecting her? She does seem to be crazy and crazy full of herself.
So, I’m asking you Blink, do you think if could be Terri? If you can’t, or don’t want to answer, I totally understand. I’m really just sharing my thoughts.
I hope Kyron is home soon
@ megan says:
October 26, 2010 at 11:20 am
_________________________
Oh, megan, don’t be nervous. KH was on top of things, as usual. Remember that he monitored TH, as her MD requested while she was taking prescribed meds during her postpartum depression. Or whatever it was; he didn’t seem quite clear about it. But, then, he said, that 6 mos. of his monitoring duties ended. And things were ok?
Oh, and, anyone familiar with the types of meds used for anything that was likely going on with TH knows that alcohol generally should not be taken with those meds. So, I’m sure KH was monitoring that and working with her MD, too.
Right? Oh, yeah.
RE:
@ puzzled says:
October 25, 2010 at 10:18 pm
IDK .. looks like Kaines losing control. He can’t be too concern about the future emotional welfare of his child if he’s willing to make public this kind of stuff. If any of it is true, let it come out in court .. not a public dump. Much of this is stuff the bloggers have been speculating about for months. Has Kaine just learned this about the woman he’s lived with for 8 years by reading the internet? Sorry to say, but this doesn’t pass the smell test for me. Waiting for the other shoe to drop.
-and-
@ riverpearl says:
October 26, 2010 at 7:11 am.
There is no words to aptly describe KH’s new motion.
IMOO It re-affirms what many of us have “guessed” that the “Shelter Nook home” wasn’t as “happy” as first professed to be.
JMHO The “ugly messy” has “officially” begun.
_________________________
And how does it help locate Kyron?
B
_________________________
Respectfully, Kaine’s pleading is not a new motion; rather, it is a Response (objection) to Terri’s motion to have the restraining order modified so she can have visitation with her daughter. When Terri filed her motion on an expedited basis, Kaine had to file an objection – otherwise, Terri’s motion would be considered unopposed and the Court would have little reason not to grant her motion.
Kaine’s Response was required to provide the Court with all of the grounds for which he believes the relief requested in Terri’s motion should be denied. The purpose of the Response is also to notice the Court and the opposing party what the issues will be for the hearing on the matter. Limitations of parental rights is a very sensitive issue with the Court, as it should be. Accordingly, there will need to be sufficient evidence on the record evidencing that visitation at this time is not warranted. Therefore, Kaine has no choice but to include all of the information and allegations in his Response if he wants to be successful in blocking Terri’s attempt to modify the restraining order.
I doubt Terri is going to reveal anything further concerning Kyron’s disappearance, regardless of whether she is allowed visitation with Kiara or not – so it probably does not further any effort to find Kyron directly. However, there still exists the slim chance that Terri will decide to testify in hopes of seeing her daughter again at the risk of incriminating herself (and some information regarding Kyron will be provided), and it does keep Kyron in the news and increases pressure on other people who may have information to come forward as it is clear Kaine is not backing down. Additionally, it might just prevent any harm to another innocent child. MOO.
Can someone explain to me where KH got the MC/TH sexting records?
Also, I don’t get MC telling TH during their texting that he was writing a long text to KH. And TH knew that??
If I may, I’ll bring over a post and response from another site where a verified lawyer answers a question (question assumes that LE gave KH the MC/TH texts):
” Originally Posted by pinktoes View Post
Oh, and why would LE have actually given Kaine the Cook texting records? Is that kosher to share with family during an investigation?”
“Heads should have rolled over that one. [My edit: lawyer's answer]
link: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108830&page=16
(Snipped from the desquire post @ 11:28am today)
IMOO, TH is a very disturbed woman, and sadly I suspect this will be a huge part of her defense. Her behavior is so very disturbing and again shows complete disregard for Ky, her daughter, LE, etc., etc,. Further, IMOO, she is a test book narcissistic sociopath. It would seem that MC may have been trying to assist KH and/or LE, and to some extent it worked. These phone records are very damning… unfortunately they may become inadmissible in the criminal trial to come and surely finding an unbiased jury pool will prove difficult. I certainly hope that KH and his attorney(s) are working with the DA on this, it seems they are walking a very fine line here. That said, this case is incredbly complicated and surely there is no guide book on how to proceed. IMO this one will go down in the law books.
******************************************
43.riverpearl says:
October 26, 2010 at 7:11 am
Blink’s response:
And how does it help locate Kyron?
B
Blink, I am compelled to ask what you would suggest that KH do? You said it would not matter if the reward money was $6 million, which I took to mean that in your opinion no one was going to come forth and talk. I think he is trying to protect his daughter and find out what happened to his son. I can empathize with his grief and frustration. This is such an extraordinary set of circumstances, and I would so appreciate your expertise in comprehending the implications of his actions here.
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40.Cbickel says:
October 26, 2010 at 6:22 am
(snipped) As for the sexting…all I can say is this woman needs some serious help, if it’s true. Personally I don’t believe anything ANY of them say anymore.
@CBickel- This was submitted under penalty of perjury. Do you think KH and his attorney made it all up? If so, please elaborate on how you think that would work out for them.
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Mother Hen says:
October 24, 2010 at 11:05 pm
“I DOUBT ANYONE on this board is a TRUE OREGON NATIVE. Please correct me if I am wrong.”
@Satori/Mother Hen- I don’t understand the point you were trying to make here as is applies to Ky’s case. Perhaps you could elaborate, or was it simply O/T based on your frustrations in your personal life? If so, please know that you are not alone in your struggles, I am in the same boat and there are days that I just want to scream…and I do. :<)
The task force is supposed to provide an internal assessment Nov 1 but it charged through Feb. I would so like to see some closure to this case. The family deserves it. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if this drags out a couple more months. I wonder what they feel they don’t know that can still be discovered. Perhaps it is a money trail. Where is RS?
I wouldn’t be that horrified by TH’s behavior if her son wasn’t missing. Such a lack of concern and remorse are so disturbing.
@Skyline – thanks for the info on the dogs and all the other details you provide. I thought it was strange but dogs are amazing creatures. Our new puppy has already figured out which shoes are dog walking shoes.
@Mother Hen — I think I qualify as an Oregon Native. Born there and both mom and dad’s families arrived in Oregon by wagon train. My parents left when I was a baby in search of better wages so I understand where you’re coming from.
Terri, for your sake, for your parent’s sake, for Kitty’s sake, for Jame’s sake, please tell the truth. Your fancy legal team can’t save you. You can only save yourself. Do you want more details like those that came out yesterday to be a part of the public record that will haunt your children for the rest of their lives? You’ve destroyed one of your children. You have two left. Show them that you love them more than you love yourself.
45.enumclawrose says:
October 25, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Kyron Horman is the first child in a long time to believe to be abducted. If Elsy met with foul play, then that makes four people missing. We add to that list Lisa (ex-wife) or Ann (sister) of Brian Pumala on of whom supposedly willingly left the area after Ky’s abduction and the list of missing people within three weeks in one little area is statistically staggering.
@erose- What makes you say that Lisa Fuhrer Pumala OR Ann Pumala are missing? IIRC Lisa moved to Bend and Ann moved to AZ, I haven’t seen them reported as missing anywhere. If they are indeed missing persons that would be beyond bizarre.
In regards to AV, I looked into him a long time ago, as did others here at BOC. His father, Kat, was killed in a motorcycle accident in Sept. 2009. I wondered if it was truly an “accident”, as in perhaps he was involved in something illegal with someone and it went awry, but I think that is a huge, huge stretch. While I find find AV’s apparent atheism and overall attitude disturbing and even frightening,to date I haven’t found anything that points to his involvement in this case. All IMOO.
FWIW, I am an alcoholic and I have been sober for 17 years. I promise you that no one could make me stop drinking except my stupid self. If an alcoholic does not want to stop snd get better they will not accept help, get help, or change their habits, period. There is not a damn thing their loved ones can do for them, it has to be the addict’s choice. If a DUII with child endangerment charge wasn’t enough to straighten her ass out then nothing else would, IMOO.
i agree with amy’s sister. terri’s narcissism is absolutely glaring. she definitely has emotional problems, most likely borderline personality disorder, and i suspect her overt sexual behavior has worked for her in the past, probably many times. i would be willing to bet she probably used the same sexual tactics to lure kaine away from desiree. imo, terri probably has had numerous texting “affairs” and has used the gym as trolling grounds for male victims of her voracious insecurity and duplicity. it is truly amazing how kaine could have believed he was the only man terri ever played these games with. terri is a selfish, self-absorbed, immature woman who, in the past, has not suffered many consequences for her behavior. i believe she is about to get a reality check from law enforcement and the courts. i wonder how wet the couch will be at that point.
@Megan – I’m with you on KH.
I really feel for KH but there’s always 3 sides to the story and it takes two to fail in a marriage.
Why would she sext with MC if she knew she was being bugged by LE?
It has been my opinion that someone was digging a hole for Terri to fall in and LE was waiting (marathon)for this “someone” to get so frustrated that he/she/they would go to extremes to push her in, then LE would make their move.
The latest motions are a big push. Does KH not realize that no one has been cleared as a suspect in the disappearance of Kyron? All the info we have received about terri has come from Kaine and Desiree. Desiree does not boast on things received from LE, she clarify’s that it is feelings, intuition or that it came from terri. KH does not seem to concern with messing up the investigation. KH repeatedly informs us, the public, that HE is in “the know”.
So the question is, is he in the know or is LE leading him to believe he is in the know. Giving him the rope so to speak?
Since LE has not officially cleared anyone as a suspect, isn’t KH opening the door to bunch and houze to request mental evaluations, history ect of KH? Wonder how he would react?
I have been waiting for a time when someone questions him about his life and who he knows, and his response isn’t “it is part of the investigation” The first question I would ask is do you know rudy sanchez or rudy sanchez by any of his aliases? KH response of he didn’t know they had hired a landscaper is a little general to me.
@Melissab: you wrote “Ya know, KH and TH have been together more than five years, how do you not know someone in that time? If I couldn’t get to know that person in that amount of time I would be highly suspicious of something.”
I can answer you on that: a sociopath can be quite hard to catch. It took me awhile to catch on with the one I knew, but the other woman with whom he was living, the other woman he was promising to marry, and the one who is now supporting him in another country never caught on. For those of us to whom this has happened, it makes sense. Lovefraud can give you a decent overview. I figured it out, but it took some doing. And after seeing just how much one person can hide, I admit that I’m very hesitant to trust again/
Omg…I want to puke. Reading the texts…she doesn’t even mention her daughter until she is using her to try to manipulate someone. What a piece of work.
Regarding Kaine…while it’s easy to bash him for not doing something about Terri’s behavior while this was going on, he may have actually tried and thought it was fixable. My take on the newest details is they are significant highlights that can be extracted and used for this specific purpose. My guess is this was not a nightly event for months on end. I imagine KH woke up on numerous occasions to finding TH asleep on the couch (deep sleep from overindulgence of alcohol) and chastised her for her irresposible behavior. I’m sure she would abstain for the days or week following and slip up again…again, saying she would not do this or be more careful. My guess is she was basically usually not drunk, but did so more often than most. She was functioning as a wife and parent most of the time and I’m sure she worked hard to make ammends and cover up her tendencies. I don’t think he let this slide, I just think it was something they were working on “NOT happening” again, however, in light of all that has come to pass, he is using this behavior to his advantage (and hopefully Kiara and Kyron’s advantage as well). Scary to think of the dangers they were put in when Terri did pass out from overdrinking.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
This new information regarding Kaine working from home 3-5 days a week, makes me wonder if Terri was under investigation (maybe through child services) before Kyron went missing.
It’s just a matter of time. They are coing to get Terri. Prayers for Kyron today and everyday. Love you little guy. You are always in my heart and thoughts. I believe Kyron will be found and possibly soon.
@beejay – probable cause to implicate is lesser than probable cause to indict or criminally charge.
I would say that any reasonable district judge under ordinary circumstances would probably feel that LS statements to LE regarding the MFH plot would be sufficient probable cause for even an indictment. However, these circumstances are far from ordinary, and it would appear that LS has illegal issues of his own to contend with, which could compromise his credibility.
Enough probable cause to “implicate” could also mean her involvement at a lower degree.
LOL well now I know stuff I didn’t want to know
but none of it leads to Kyron
I hope none of this is a shock to Desiree That poor mom
reading this stuff
Prayers for Desiree and Kyron
and those elderly Moultons
megan says:
October 26, 2010 at 11:20 am
@ kitjcat117 – I could not agree more with you about what KH was doing to help TH if he was aware of this “alcohol” problem. I am no TH supporter, but his statement about her drinking and him being aware of it makes me a little nervous about his parenting skills. Just my 2 cents.
—-
Hi – it is not always easy to come to terms with someone that has a drinking problem- Really, unless they want to get help- you can not force them.
Even if Terri had gone to rehab before- or stopped cold turkey whatever- there is/was always a chance that she could relapse.
One other thought- Kaine worked from home ALOT- was this for convenience- or because he was trying to watch over the house and his children and his wife? Was it a safety concern? Was he doing his best?
How can we be sure that Kaine wasn’t trying to get Terri to see that her behaviors/drinking was destructive? Perhaps he was doing everything in his power to save his family,his marriage, and Terri- Perhaps he was trying tuff love- and Terri resented him for it- and for always looking over her shoulder…
Perhaps Terri wasn’t ready to give up drinking- maybe she hadn’t hit rock bottom. Perhaps her love of drink was more than her love of self and family and Kaine…Maybe Kaine gave her an ultimatum? Thereby her love of drink ect- sent her down the road of ‘must kill Kaine’ ect ect ….
All just my opinion nothing more.
Somehow my last post got lost in cyberspace – it happens. There was a lot of tsk-tsking and judgments leveled at Kaine a couple of pages back for making documents public, to prevent TH from access to Kiara. I just want to point out that marriage is a legal contract and it’s only recently in history that people married for love. Historically, marriage was about money,property and inheritance. I cannot fault him at all for wanting to be out from under the huge onus of being legally tied to that mentally unbalanced woman. She is a loose cannon. I have posted several times as to what I believe her psychopathology is. I’m now adding that she is very likely bi-polar. That would account for the hypersexuality, particularly if she were in a manic state, as I believe she was when she took Kyron. Manic episodes can escalate into temporary psychosis. Whether she was or wasn’t psychotic remains to be seen. More likely manic/sociopathic. Regarding her alcohol abuse: it’s sometimes hard to see the magnitude of a drug/alcohol problem in a family member. Many people (women in particular) hide their drinking. He might have been so used to her “falling asleep” (passing out) on the couch that he didn’t notice it was out of the ordinary. We can live for years with an addict and be in the dark. It’s a progressive disease. I’m so sad for all their children. Poor James right now…
I should have said a Prayer for James also
that kid is in HS
I am not so sure those text should have ever
been on line
No
Whoa … my mid had not wandered quite this far into depth of the vulgar and aggressive sexting that occurred between TH and MC.
And … from what we’ve read, the sexting TH engaged in with RS was of the same sick ilk.
In these Sexts – TH comes across as VERY experienced in this type of activity.
She’s not just flirting or acting coy with MC in these examples of her sexting.
This activity is not new for TH.
TH is downright aggressively down + dirty … and has no shame of her actions/words.
MOO
So … my mind wanders to this question: Was TH participating in some form of the porn trade before sweet Kyron disappeared?
TH’s seems professional and aggressive in her communications with MC (and probably RS too).
If TH was a “working-girl” in the porn trade – who knows what kinds of creepy + illegal activities she may have been in to?
AND … who knows what kinds of creepy and prone to illegal activity other people TH may have been associating with?
Perhaps the type of people that would be involved in little Ky being gone.
And maybe this is where some of the $$ for her high priced attorney has come from.
She may have been “working” for years- and had a tidy little stash of funds hidden away.
MOO MOO
**My eyes and brain are forever grateful that only the text portions were released.
No amount of brain-bleach could have ever removed the gross images if the sext-pics had also been released.**
7.Mom3.0 says:
October 26, 2010 at 10:21 am
P.s What makes this not a run of the mill ugly divorce is the fact that Terri was trying to kill Kaine- and was willing to do what ever it took to hire a hitman to do it. That and the fact that an innocent little boy, Kaine’s son, who was last seen by the respondent is now missing and presumed dead.
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I think that pretty much sums this up, Mom3.0. Totally agree. Kaine has every right to do what he needs to do (or say) to protect his daughter. MOO.
12.justice23 says:
October 26, 2010 at 10:38 am
This is Avery’s sister’s post on FB back in Aug/Sept of last yr. Hmm … pretty sad when you’re celebrating the death anniversary of your own father. What’s up with this family?!
http://www.facebook.com/crazy4high?v=wall
Cameron Villarreal Party at my house for my father 1 year passed away on Sunday the 19th
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This is actually AV , and Kurtis’ brother, not his sister.
Just fyi, so there is no confusion.
Okay, bat phone and ‘clean one’ & making phone calls in the context of “those” texts… YIKES.
Back away before the next “flash” & proceed to nearest anti-bactarial hand wash STAT … LOL
I can only imagine phone calls asking questions of “neighbors” … may involved “witness protection” afterwards … Thanks for the levity
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beejay says:
October 25, 2010 at 11:51 pm
@beejay says:
October 25, 2010 at 10:46 pm
___________________
WHOA. Not endorsing calling strangers for any reason, and certainly not promoted here.
I am hoping your kidding.
B
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Blink: your response to me is correct. Again, my bent sense of humor–trying to bring in the bat phone thing. No, I wouldn’t encourage anyone to involve themselves in this way either.
OTOH, I’m sure some PI with cahunas has been there, done that.
MockingbirdSings says:
October 25, 2010 at 6:44 pm
“ Even if it were possible to train such dogs, a building full of kids and teachers would have lots of strong emotions. Can’t imagine what a dog could tell us about who had what emotion after everyone was gone,”…
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MockingbirdSings, It might be there was an “isolated location/spot” that a child should NOT be that “caused an alert/hit” ?
@beejay,
I am with you all the way on your post,
But; I must say, I am sitting here with a huge
lump in my throat and half way covering my eyes.
14.beejay says:
October 26, 2010 at 10:59 am
Looking down farther in KH’s Affidavit, he said that LE has told him that more than one circuit court judge has determined there is probable cause to implicate TH in both Ky’s disappearance and in the MFH plot (lines 22-24 of the affidavit).
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This statement and others KH has made worries me.
I think it puts the notion out there that KH is being
made privy to alot of information and the defense/respondent is not
As were statements from Bunch at the last hearing(IIRC). This could get ugly
and tricky and end up biting him in the behind.
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I know KH is desparate to find Kyron,
I also know I would not want to be around
the person I believed harmed my son.
However: this divorce thing would benefit
both KH and TH if an abatement were ordered
The fighting and drama of the divorce alone,
does nothing than distract from the true purpose!
Very very sad.
Do you think he’s (KH) hit the anger stage of grief
and is venting it this way? (affadavits and not willing to
give until he gets?)
I just can’t wrap my head around the need to hurry this (divorce)up
and the right now mentality,
My god, there is a child still missing,
it’s obvious at the very least a divorce needs to happen
here, BUT, set the priorities!
Very, very awful situation here.
iodizedseasalt says: October 25, 2010 at 1:21 pm If Rudy Sanchez is an alias,does anyone on Blink have privy to his real name? I’m just wondering if “Sanchez” could actually be Cook? I’m new here and was just mulling this around.
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Per “DDS/cousin” postings on glp “alias RS is AS-S” but that is in the “un-vetted pile”.
But, if you go from that “comment/post” than there are @ least “two known” RS’s.