Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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And what was all that talk about Dee is here and I am only wearing a thong? Was that supposed to be sexy? Ew, ew, EW!
PPPPPFFFFTTTT!
B
Notice the comments made by Lt. Mary Lindstand in one of the bottom paragraphs:
When asked if Kristian Horman’s child molestation conviction in Seattle, Wash., was part of the investigation in Kyron’s case in Portland, Multnomah County Sheriff’s office spokeswoman, Lt. Mary Lindstand, said, “Yes, I can say that it is part of the investigation.”
http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/kyron-horman-update-details-emerge-about-kyron-s-uncle-charged-child-molestation-case
@ mockingbirdsings
I agree with your post #31
can’t Terri try to get visitation later on when she gets her life
stable
@Valkyrie says:
October 27, 2010 at 9:54 pm
With regards to the claim that we don’t know who is on the other end of MC’s text messages: Terri texted PHOTOS of herself. These transcripts are not some LE conspiracy to sully a poor housewife’s good name.
****
@Valkyrie.
Appreciate your viewpoints.
Agree that LE knows exactly what and when TH was texting. At times it almost seems like TH is taunting LE to “catch me if you can” with various things she says and does, b/c she misguidedly thinks she can out smart them all.
I have full faith and confidence LE on this case. They know so much more than we are privy to (as it should be) – and TH’s day of reckoning will be come.
____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____
@cd says:
October 28, 2010 at 11:05 am
Also i thought that the 2 pictures associated with the texting did not include TH’s face but were of other body parts. Since I have never seen the pictures I could wrong.
Does anyone have info on what was in the photo’s other then various body parts.
****
@cd …
I have no info about what exactly the pictures were … but it certainly looks like TH sent more than 2 pics that night.
I went back and looked over the MC/TH texts that were released and it looks like there were many more than just “2″ pictures that TH sent.
*Looks like TH was busy sending 10 pictures of herself in the span of about an hour of sexting MC.*
Each date/time listed below show what was most likely a pic sent from TH.
If you open up two windows – and line these date/times up along side the log of texts that were released – TH was very busy multi-tasking.
There are comments from MC after each of these logged text times where he says something that refers back one of multiple pics that TH had sent.
These are times in the MC/TH text convo when messages were logged as “sent” – but no verbal comment is noted at that time. (I suppose it *could* be a redacted comment during that time – but highly doubt it, b/c the reply comment right after each of these times is a comment from MC about liking what he just received.)
6/30 – 23:48:10 – picture
6/30 – 23:55:52 – picture
7/01 – 00:07:44 – picture
7/01 – 00:14:44 – picture
7/01 – 00:16:01 – picture
7/01 – 00:43:27 – picture
7/01 – 00:47:38 – picture
7/01 – 00:49:36 – picture
7/01 – 00:50:22 – picture
7/01 – 00:55:30 – picture
Ewww. I can’t believe I really went back and looked at that sexting log again to gather the info above.
Pass the brain bleach please.
Just seemed to me from the flow of conversation from MC that TH was sending him quite a few pics.
____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____
Bring Kyron Home. God Bless KH, DY, and TY. Strength to persevere to all of LE working this horrible crime.
Is it possible TMH ever had some kind of fling/affair w/KH’s brother Kristian in the past? Interesting the comment by the Lieutenant in that last article. If so, that would in fact link them both and also make Ky’s potential disappearance “isolated” because of the family connection. Things that make you go “Hmmm ….”
I’ve read here and on other websites the occasional question concerning why Kaine, and not Desiree, had primary custody of Kyron.
There are tons of reasons that occurred, and many of those reasons would not reflect Desiree’s desire and drive to have primary custody.
There are in most states simply a focus on a child’s existing circumstances. Is the child settled into school and in a good home when another parent, such as Desiree, has been seriously ill and unable to care for that child? Was Desiree trying to get Kyron back, or have joint custody, or was she financially able to handle a custody petition to change Kyron’s arrangement? Did Kaine simply have Kyron so settled, with all things looking great for Kyron, and a judge simple considered that Kyron was in a good place and should not be relocated back to Desiree? Too many variables. We don’t know what happened.
Desiree did not “let” another woman raise her child, I believe. I sense she wanted Kyron back, or much more time with him, and any parent can walk into Family Court fired up to get the decision they want. A judge ultimately makes the call.
I also give weight to the idea that Desiree, being a good mom, saw that Kyron was at one time happy and settled in his life, and did she want to unsettle it? It is often a matter of the parent seeing that their own needs should be second to the needs of their child. Plenty of fathers do not have primary custody of their children, but want it. They “settle.” We ought to treat mothers and fathers equally when we see custody arrangements that irritate us.
There is also this to consider, and folks, it still exists in our society — there are men who simply believe that a son should be with his father. I know men like this. I’ve heard them discuss their custody brawls. They want “my son” to live with them. They have money. They hire excellent attorneys. They have weight that their ex-spouse does not have financially. In my county, if you petition for custody, you must hire your lawyer out of pocket. You do not qualify for pro-bono representation. If you are the Respondent — e.g., Desiree files for custody years back and Kaine is the Respondent — if you are financially able, you hire a first rate lawyer. If as the Respondent you are flat broke, you have to petition for pro-bono, and you don’t always get the best lawyer. Desiree would not have that option as the Petitioner for custody in my state. I do NOT know Oregon law on this at all. I don’t know Kaine and Desiree finances if they engaged to change custody at any time.
I just wish that as I speculate and everyone speculates on why Desiree “let” Terri Horman raise her son, that there is every chance she did not “let” that happen. She just had to accept the decision of a judge, or, it’s possible that Kaine simply outgunned her legally. We might never know those details.
In the meantime, I really hurt for Desiree now. She knows so much about Kryon’s life with Kaine and Terri that must be brutal for her to accept. And that being the case, Tony Young has his hands full being as supportive as he can be for her. This is ugly and this is not what any parent wants to learn about their child’s life.
I’ve seen women lose custody in my state only because they could not afford to pay a lawyer, and were assigned an indifferent attorney pro-bono who just went through the motions. That’s a fact of life for many parents, male and female, in many states.
Remember the case about a man who took his daughters to Florida and raised them there? He apparently had the money to pull that off. The mother did have problems, but also should have had the ability to get a fair hearing and her day in court concerning custody. These situations happen, and sometimes, people like Desiree Young opt to look at the immediate situation — perhaps she believed that Kyron was happy with Kaine — and due to all sorts of reasons, decided that a prolonged custody war would not be in Kyron’s best interest.
We should cut her some slack on the custody arrangement, I think. She’s in major pain right now for it.
For everyone asking where James now lives, apparently from various news articles, he moved out of his grandparent’s home and in w/his father, RT. It looks like this happened sometime back in June or July right before TMH moved in but there was no explanation given (interesting at best, IMO). The comments about James in the Willamette Weekly won’t post because the link no longer works at the moment, but here is one of the other ones that also mentions it.
James, Terri’s son, moves out of the Horman home and in with his grandparents. He now allegedly lives with his father. There has been no explanation as to why he moved out of Kaine and Terri’s home.
http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/kyron-horman-update-family-turmoil-two-911-calls-saturday-at-horman-residence-dad-moves-out
This article for the Examiner was dated July 1st.
I finally found the actual text exhibit for the case and I reread the comment by Valkyrie and your post made sooo much more sense! Very well said.
@Mosaic: I totally agree with your assessment of Kaine.
@Midwest Mom (sorry if I did not appropriately credit the words, but this was within your post):
I am sure that LE has the disposable phone that was used in the texting.
It doesn’t surprise me he was writing KH an e-mail, MC is KH friend. IMO not my type a friend and someone I would not let around my child. What could of been the reason for LE to turn over these texting to KH? Was this needed to convince the courts that Kiara was in danger?
~~I wonder if that disposable phone was the one they were looking for off Cornelius pass or some such. I kinda want to go back and compare timelines again, now that we know more of the content of the texts. Obviously this isnt just her body building pictures. In fact it seemed more like there were probably about 8-10 pics sent. (I would have to go back and re-count the empty texts that likely had a picture included.) I think its possible that MC was trying to help law enforcement and turned over his phone but that it likely wasn’t something LE suggested to him. It does show at least that he knew about the “bat phones”. When *did that come to light? (disposables)
From MCs ex according to the toxic relationships site she said he was: hiding large sums of cash from me <interesting revelation if you are Terri looking him up on the web.
Could the $350K come to fruition due to the "meeting manana w/ u and the girls"? Some "fundraising" idea spearheaded by TMH, DDS, KSR, and MC? Would a "fundraiser" be "not a maritial asset and not a gift"? I would think so! Was there a funneling of money from the fundraisers that KSR and MC were working on-a diversion of funds so to speak? (I must look over time line again.) Some paypal account set up for supporters of TMH?
I could only speculate and of course ALL of this is mere speculation and MOO but, why would LE show these to Kaine? Because for one, it shows that TMH was hiding things. A LOT of things, including "batphones", collusion (over what we don't know yet), the indifference to Kyron and Kiara being gone, etc etc. Very telling of her overall mindset.
Malty, OMG this cracked me up. I think you have coined a new phrase. lol "Nuttybutter". LOL TFF
You said and I whole heartedly agree:
and knew he was a player so both of them were in on the sexting
and the nuttybutter
the two of them not worried about Kyron at all , just having a fun time
yuck
Hmm, funny too that TMH didn't seem too bothered by a long email to Kaine. Or, was that just TMH's way of trying to bypass the restraining order and get to Kaine via MC? Did he write a letter pleading on her behalf? How many of you actually thought that she went over to MC house to "talk"? "I just want to make sure we are good" definitely sounds like either sex or premeditated plan. I wonder if LE followed her to MCs, found out about them via listening devices, and then THAT brought on the subpoena for his phone revealing all?
The plot thickens.
Saddest of all, where is Kyron?
Okay … now the link works … here is the other one regarding James residance.
Tarver said Terri Horman had sent James to live in the southern Oregon town of Roseburg last March because the boy’s grades at Lincoln High School in Portland were dropping and he was acting out at home, including butting heads with his stepfather, Kaine Horman. Tarver said James was living nearby with Terri Horman’s parents but frequently visited Tarver’s home.
With the latest news that Terri Horman relocated over the weekend to her parents’ home in Roseburg, we wondered whether James is still living in that same house. A judge has placed a restraining order on Terri Horman telling her to stay away from Kaine Horman and their 19-month-old daughter, Kiara.
Reached by phone today, Tarver tells WW James moved out of Terri Horman’s parents’ house and into the Tarver house sometime in the past month. Tarver declined to elaborate on when the move happened or why, but he said it was before Terri Horman moved to Roseburg over the weekend.
“This was all before that,” Tarver says. “He’s been with us for quite some time.”
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/tag/ron-tarver/
@Idahogal: Thanks for links.
@”Did DDS sleep in the wet spot?” is another classic for the day IMO.
Re: KH and Rackner putting the sexts out there, and “less is more”. I am not a legal eagle and would love to her a chiming in. I recall the initial introduction of the sexts and the 350K were done at the same time. Several here discussed a possibly folly in that because Houze could push for discovery. The motion by TMH for parenting time (I cannot recall if the money issue was mentioned for them as well but) was an attempt to push up the timeline. The timeline was set for BOTH issues in January.
It could be that Rackner and KH pulled out some stops to make certain that there was no parenting time granted before those safety procedures were in place. I think they did a good job on that point. I also noted the disjointed texts and I am guessing there were many more pages of texts to MC and others that were not relevant to the divorce case and LE has them all. I think Rackner only showed the cards she had to to prove KH point about TMH being unstable to some degree.
The “legal folly” I mentioned, the idea of Houze pushing for discovery. Well, now this particular action by Rackner will mean that Houze has what he would potentially push for. Kind of nipped in the bud any need for discovery beyond that directly relevant to the divorce case. Sure, Houze got a heads up.
Anyone else wonder if he was just now finding out for the first time that TMH did NOT follow his SPECIFIC DIRECTIONS by meeting with MC? Or did he know about that months ago?
Any legal guys want to chime in as to whether this was a good pre-emptive strike to keep Houze from knowing any more than they want him to know at this time relevant to the divorce?
TIA and MOO
24.mosaic says:
October 27, 2010 at 11:09 pm
LinTN,
I’m curious and I hope you don’t mind me asking…you commented that “Truthfully, Kaine is the one with the narcissistic personality.” You state that you do not live anywhere near the area otherwise I would have assumed that you live in Portland and know Kaine personally. But since you don’t live there, which of Kaine’s actions or behaviors lead you to believe that he is narcissistic?
From what I’ve observed in his public appearances he appears to be very focused, he speaks plainly and logically and he’s unconcerned with his appearance. He seems to keep his emotions in check and at the same time he’s transparent about his motivation–finding his son.
None of his actions indicate to me that he is someone who is self-absorbed or craving attention for himself.
*********************************************************
Well if I am going to post, I guess I need to provide reasons for what I state…if not I will be guilty of an opinion with nothing to back it…but yet these are just my observations that put up red flags to me. And again, many of these would be consider hearsay, and may have no merit. Kaine’s action to make me come to the narcissistic conclusion: 1) August 2002 Divorce paper. Desiree cited irresponsible differences. She also sought a restraining order against Kaine. At the times she had a 7yr old from a previous marriage. Young said she feared Kaine Horman would “remove our children from their residence”. It was also stated somewhere that after Desiree received medical treatment that she tried to reclaim Kyron but Kaine had reneged. 2) Terri’s son (James) has suggested not getting along with Kaine. (Again, teenagers are not suppose to get along with father’s all the time…yet I wonder if there are truths to these home dynamics.) Terri gets yard work done secretly…because Kaine would have not allowed it. Terri texting MC that “Kaine doesn’t even know what blanket or toy his daughter liked”. (These are all from Terri’s perspective…along with other complaints to friends about control issues with money and parenting). Some type of breakdown in their communication occurred…Could it have been that there was no compromise on his part? 3) Kaine’s actions since Kyron disappeared are aggressive…for him and Desiree to be so hell bent on TMH to talk, their actions would sure push me to get a lawyer and keep quiet. Let’s say that Terri is indirectly responsible for Kyron’s disappearance through association (maybe lovers she has exposed him to). I believe if it were about finding my son, I would put my new found knowledge to the side and say..Ok now, I know you haven’t been completely honest regarding an affair or affairs, but can we put that aside for now and you give LE all relationship information that might lead to Kyron? I just do not believe MFH thing until I see more than just accusations from LS. 4) The whole slander Terri method being used by Kaine and Desiree…MFH sting gone bad…RO against daughter…MC and texting made public….No financial assistance…No supervised visitation. Saying flat out that you believe she is responsible (and that is what the police think too) to the media….It would be a cold day before I would speak, not because I did not want to help find Kyron, but flat out fear of what was going to happen next. Gosh I sound like a TMH supporter but I’m really not…I just believe that all of the dynamics are not as visible because Kaine is controlling what is visible. And yes he comes across as very emotionally in check. That in itself can be a red flag. I am not saying that Kaine is responsible for KY’s disappearance either. I’m just saying there are more than TMH ‘s dysfunctions going on in this household. They obviously do not have the evidence to back up their claims or she would be charged with murder. So this is starting to look like a big battle of wounded egos instead of all about Kyron. I don’t know that all narcissistic personalities crave attention but just often are about power and prestige… grandiosity. I really do not know where LE are going with this case…I just hope they are being a little more open-minded to other possibilities than what Kaine and Desiree are leaking to the media. I just don’t buy it. If there was ever a chance that TMH would talk…that all disappeared when the Sexting tapes were released to the public. That was unnecessary to do to his daughter….more damaging than any supervised visit. And unless charges are made she will have a relationship with her daughter again.
Midwest Mom says:
October 28, 2010 at 12:49 am
IDK, Am I the only one that fears, that when LE reveals what happened to Kyron, that they are going to say …
~~~
I get what you’re saying … it’s obvious now that the early assumptions re: what happened, stem from the bad behavior of TH and her cohorts. What changed to cause LE to suspect someone else?
Question?? why would a divorce attorney have evidence in a criminal investigation and will they have to turn the sext/texts over to respondent in discovery?
I haven’t posted for awhile but have been following as closely as possible so I may have missed some things in the last few weeks.
That being said, so far this is what I have surmized and I think Blink has offered her opinion on some of these points:
Kyron left school with someone he knew (not Terri) and most probably it was Rudy or an associate of Rudy’s.
Terri was blindsided by his abduction.
It was treated as a ransom initially.
A ransom note was received and Kyron’s glasses.
LE changed their initial investigation that the abduction was for ransom.
Kyron’s abduction was a sexually motivated crime.
Terri’s and Dede’s whereabouts are unaccounted for part of the day on June 4th.
Kaine has said through recent court documents (not just interviews) he believes Terri caused Kyron unimaginable harm and Kiara may have witnessed this act.
We don’t know where Kyron is.
I have questions to Blink or anyone else. This may have been addressed already.
After Kaine’s statements in the new court documents do you still think Terri was blindsided on June 4th?
Are Rudy’s whereabouts accounted for on June 4th?
Blink,
Is there any possibility that Kyron is still out there somewhere alive and waiting to be found? As a mom, I so want to believe this, but w/all the little details coming out recently, I really don’t know what to think anymore. I had 100% hope until LE scaled back their investigation and started searching Sauvie Island, allegedly for bones. Is there anything at all you can tell us? The not knowing at least that much is brutal.
I think Kaine’s motion about what “unimaginable acts” may have occurred has to be rooted in some form of information.
It is in stark contrast with the concept he is being “secreted.”
B
@enumclawrose says:
October 27, 2010 at 10:51 pm
“Evie 10-27 4:43pm
I think you picked up on the crux of the motive as outlined by KH, however, I am having trouble reconciling it in my mind. How does TH’s sexual actvities translate into a seven year old child disappearing?
There has been speculation that Ky found out about her activities, or that she may have been having an affair with an opportunistic peodophile, but otherwise, I can’t see the connection.
What we read in exhibit 1, has to be the tip of the iceberg, because vulgar as it was, it wasn’t material to cause murder or abduction. There has to be more than sexting to qualify a sexual motive. What is it?”
——
e-rose, that’s what I am stuck on as well… NONE of this is embarrassing *enough* to continue this silence by TH. What on earth could Kyron have witnessed (disgusting, according to Desiree) sufficient to abduct/murder? I can not get my head around a motive no matter how many speculations I read. Divorce was *a* solution to the KH problem, if she didn’t want to be married anymore. I can see money being at the root of solving that problem. But a little kid? Even if he ratted on her, she could have concocted a denial.
KH references TH’s activities **after** moving out of the house.
I wonder what else he might be referring to?
Running down the timeline and I hope it helps someone:
6/28 OL: By 8 p.m. Monday, at least four friends had driven up the gravel driveway at Terri Horman’s blue, two-story house set in woodlands in rural northwest Multnomah County to console their embattled friend after learning of the divorce.
Now, more than ever, I wonder who the “four friends” are.
6/30 OL: TMH mom is with her now. Possibly dad too? MC was quoted by OL as saying he has had contact with KH. When did reporter of this story asked MC about KH as quoted in the article if he was out all day with his son?? Oh thats right, when he drove up the driveway at 4pm with supplies for TMH and friends/family. RO was still sealed at time of the article. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/terri_moulton_horman_focus_of.html
Later that day on 6/30 TMH and Houze come and go: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/terri_moulton_horman_retains_p.html
Here they report more on MC and his list of supplies: He parked among the 10 or so news vehicles hugging the shoulder on Sheltered Nook Road, dropped off a cooler filled with beverages — an olive branch to the cameramen and reporters — then drove up to the home and dropped off 12-packs of Coca-Cola and 7-Up, bottles of Arrowhead water, Hefty kitchen garbage bags, Quaker Chewy granola bars and catfood.
I wonder if he just hid the booze? Clearly Dede was making drinks for TMH by then. Note the time on the texts where she says “Dede made me a drink about an hour ago”. Funny, that is right around the start of the text messages (at least the ones we are shown. Part of an earlier text is cut off).
7/1 Restraining order still closed.
(Launching post now so it isn’t lost).
They obviously do not have the evidence to back up their claims or she would be charged with murder.
I should have written that she would have been charged with MFH.
7/2 Restraining order still closed. 7/12 date set in court to open it up.
Texts jump to 7/3 where TMH discusses “clean phone”. Dirty phones and flashing are discussed.
7/4 texts reference ugly story by the Oregonian, which I assume is the revelation of the MFH plot. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html
A few hours later as texts are turning to sexts: TMH makes references to bugs and lack of safety outside the phone. TMH makes references to meeting tomorrow (7/5) at 6 and he said he should be home by then but mentions the fact that her place isn’t safe to meet. Also that she only had 1 hour of sleep the might before.
7/5 Texts: had meeting with Houze in AM, DDS to be there at 4 despite the supposed 6 pm rendezvous. TMH has something to tell him in person. The texts are cut off at this point/date.
7/5 Presser with KH and DY asking TMH to cooperate fully.
Launching so it isn’t lost.
And sorry if I am being redundant.
@Mosaic: Thank you. There are so many times I want to comment, but feel it fruitless. There are people who will do any amt of gyration/machination to blame KH. Baffling, to me.
Does anybody else now think this may all be Terri and Terri alone? Doesn’t help Kyron, I’m just wondering. Also, having grown to in an alcoholic parent family… don’t even consider blaming this on Kaine… an alcoholics ability ti lie and manipulate is unfathomable unless you’ve experienced it. I loved my mom; but it is a miracle I’m even semi normal. Love to Kyron.
evie says:
October 27, 2010 at 4:43 pm
I just read this post on WS from user Shadowboy that made me go ‘huh?!’: “In re-reading yesterday’s filing, I noticed this:
“16. As noted above, I obtained a restraining order on June 28, 2010. Respondent’s behavior following her removal from our home and separation from K are highly unusual and suspect. In my opinion, Respondent’s subsequent acts reveal extreme emotional disturbance and ***provide insight into the motives behind Kyron’s disappearance.***”
So KH is pointing fingers at a sexual motive too?
______________________________________________________________________
This is the crux of TH’s motivation according to KH. So how does TH’s sexual activities translate into a little boy being abducted? I think the statement is true, I just want to know what we are missing here.
7/6 Text banter about seeing him later. More details are released in the news about the MFH.
7/6 Letter sent to judge saying that RO does not need to be sealed anymore via news reports that come out next day. End of day texts “hoping we are in a good place”.
7/7 Media release of DA telling the judge that the orders no longer need to be sealed.
Text banter says that TMH asked MC to lie about seeing her cuz her lawyer would be pissed. St. Michael said he didn’t want to lie and said she shouldn’t either. :cough: Last text on the exhibit was around 8:40 AM on the 7th but clearly some was cut off.
7/8 KH requests that judge ask TMH to move out of the house. Judge officially lifts seal on RO. KH and DY have official presser asking TMH to cooperate with LE.
7/12 Rackner files to hold TMH in contempt for showing RO to MC and seeking KH whereabouts. Media reports that the sexual overtures were similar to those between TMH and RS.
7/14 Even though hearing to push TMH out of house is set for 7/22, Rackner requests expedition.
7/15 Houze requests time for TMH to get out of house citing threats to her well being and logistics, in front of a judge. Judge states he will decide on 7/16.
7/16 Meeting with judge cancelled and TMH agrees to be out Saturday afternoon (7/17.)
7/17 TMH moves in with Mommy and Daddy and is not heard from in public save the divorce hearing.
Hope that helps someone by pulling it together.
28. GraceintheHills says:
October 28, 2010 at 12:17 am
4-Kaine seemed *particularly* bothered by the fact that TMH told him SPECIFICALLY she needed his truck that day to pick up Ky’s diorama, but she didn’t stay around at the school or go back at 10 AM to pick it up when she knew the projects were set to be released. Listening to him talk about this suggested to me that he believes she used that truck for something much more sinister.
********************************************************************
Hi Gracie -something that always nagged me about this was why was the fact that they both casually went down to meet him at the school bus, instead of her having arranged to pick Ky up AND the project after school. Kaine probably assumed at the time that the project was already home. I can understand if she did not want to stay at the science fair another hour plus, but to me, her lack of just planning to pick him + project up after school, coupled with her sending an email to the teacher about it shows that 1) she knew he was not at the school, 2) it was an alibi establishing (CYA) maneuver to email the teacher (so she could tell Kaine, “I emailed the teacher earlier but she didn’t get back to me yet about when to come back and get it!”
Idahogal says:
October 28, 2010 at 8:29 am
@Rich M- Here are links to the court docs from KOIN.com. Read them while you can, they may disappear like so many others:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/a/4/6/a466434a-e631-4fef-96c5-8162118cb371/petition.pdf
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/f/1/2/f12d5e9c-5f4f-4cb5-8d93-0979d33f4120/redacted_text_messages.pdf
****************************
fwiw, you can actually save the document to your computer…
I try very hard to maintain my decorum. I have been working my bippy off on another case and just had the oppty to read these in total.
That woman is a skank.B
@GraceintheHills says:
October 28, 2010 at 12:17 am
11-As I pointed out before, Desiree reminded us that women suffering from PPD do not engage in the type of behavior TMH allegedly engaged in. **At this point, Desiree seems to slip and reveal that they are aware that TMH was SCHEMING TO HARM PEOPLE at or around that time.** I think this is a very important revelation.
*******************************************************
I am not sure what you mean, why you say this? Can you explain? To me it sounds like she was referring to the alleged MFH plot…that supposedly happened around Nov 2009, a year after baby was born… TIA
@Malty says:
October 28, 2010 at 1:40 pm
I should read first as you guys catch everything
but it bothers me that Kiara was in the house
while Terri and DeDe were having fun and
this sexting was going on
and maybe that is the reason it is out there
***********************************
DDS staying with her and this texting occurred AFTER Kaine and baby left the home with an RO….
anyone else “see” RH a Dominatrix who is role playing over a blackberry rather than a computer? Would explain her interaction with RS as well as MC. I have always speculated that TH was involved in a sexting game, business, group enterprise .. that was the web that caught MC. I still believe that RS was one of the conquests and he was “showing” the texts to his “associates” and somewhere something went terribly wrond with Ky paying the ultimate price.
@justice23 says:
October 28, 2010 at 3:35 pm
For everyone asking where James now lives, apparently from various news articles, he moved out of his grandparent’s home and in w/his father, RT. It looks like this happened sometime back in June or July right before TMH moved in but there was no explanation given (interesting at best, IMO).
**********************************************
J’s stepmother (wife of RT) wrote herself on her FB wall that J had moved in with them in January or February…and he has been there since, as far as I have gathered.
puzzled says:
October 28, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Midwest Mom says:
October 28, 2010 at 12:49 am
IDK, Am I the only one that fears, that when LE reveals what happened to Kyron, that they are going to say …
~~~
I get what you’re saying … it’s obvious now that the early assumptions re: what happened, stem from the bad behavior of TH and her cohorts. What changed to cause LE to suspect someone else?
********************************************************************
I must be having comprehension probs today…did I miss something? How do we know they suspect someone else? Or is that not what you meant…?
Oy vey, Blink, Skanola ola, LOL…
@Rich M – I’m so glad you’re back!
Hi~ Don’t you wonder why Kaine didnt put his daughter to bed while Terri was passed out drunk on the sofa~!? (night after night-according to Kaine) He states his daughter was up all hours while Terri was drunk & passed out ~! my goodness I would have put my baby to bed if the other parent was all messed up~ obviously unable to care for herself let alone a lil one~I dont get that ~ It is in the most recent court docs~He said it a couple of times ? Seems like two people didnt have their heads on straight? or maybe both were messed up ~ How the children suffer when we as adults are not responsible
my own thoughts….
Back to the search for Ky. Did LE have good reason to believe @ June 14-15 that Ky’s body would be found containerized in the area Blink was told? Or were they just grasping at straws? If they knew back then, how did they know? They must’ve known who did it (is that what RS is a material witness to?) Why have we drifted from that? That container could be somewhere, just not found yet.
“Continuing today, divers have been spotted along Sauvie Island being instructed by a Geospatial analyst. A source inside the investigation speaking to blinkoncrime.com on the condition of anonymity has confirmed the team is being guided by the aerial images taken from the National Guards Black Hawk Helicopter this past weekend. The team has been advised they are looking for a large container, possibly a suitcase or duffle bag, within the shore line.”
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/15/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-john-walsh-on-today-show-media-will-solve-this-case/
I seriously can’t put all the blame on Terri~ Seems like Kaine should have a bit of the responsibity as far as what he saw was happening… protect the lil one who couldnt protect herself or for that matter Kyron too ~ from a woman that he says was in a drunken stuper night after night~!
I’ve read several posts about MCs txt response that he was writing a long email to Kaine, and some wondering why TH wasn’t bothered by that. I can’t be sure because I wasn’t privy to any of their actions that night (THANK GOD) *but* my best guess is that MC was just teasing TH and should have added an LOL to that statement (maybe he didn’t know we’d all be reading his sexts someday). Sort of like the way I tease one of my good friends that I will tell her mother on her (we are both Southern, and even at our ages, we still wouldn’t want our mothers to know too many details
)
And I know this is petty in light of everything, but good heavens, the thought of TH & DDS prancing around in various states of undress with nutterbutters in hand! 260 calories a pop and solid fat/sugar/carbs. Not only will I never be able to eat a nutterbutter again, but this may taint all peanut-butter foods for me!
B: I’m going with “heartless, nasty, trashy, hateful skank”
@Roller Monkey:
Does anybody else now think this may all be Terri and Terri alone?
———————————–
Yes, I believe Terri herself put this plan in motion. She may have manipulated other(s) into assisting with Kyron’s abduction and/or death, but I sincerely believe it originated with her.
@Roller Monkey:
… don’t even consider blaming this on Kaine… an alcoholics ability ti lie and manipulate is unfathomable unless you’ve experienced it.
———————————–
Agreed. In addition, Kaine lost his only son and is current fighting to protect his only daughter and remaining child. I am sure he spends every waking moment blaming himself for not protecting Kyron from the vampire(s). For others to pile on the Kaine blame game is insensitive at best, in my opinion.
And for that matter poor James was caught up in whatever lifestyle his parents had going ~ what was he to do~! too young to take care of himself , feeling loyalty for his mom & whoever she had in her life
I feel really bad for him~ seeing his mom who he loves drunk (if it is true) all the time going out with kaine to bottomless clubs (& for sure cuz of those court docs)-he knows now for sure all Terri’s dirty underwear ~ really sad, for sure
@ puzzled says:
October 28, 2010 at 8:46 pm
I still believe that RS was one of the conquests and he was “showing” the texts to his “associates” and somewhere something went terribly wrond with Ky paying the ultimate price.
__________________________
I can’t tell you how much I’ve thought about that. I also considered not that something went wrong, but that a pedophile “associate” also had TH pointed out to him at school, with Ky in tow and targeted Ky. Or maybe was shown, along with her graphic photos, her Facebook with Ky’s photos on it and stalked Ky from there (at school, where the associate conveniently worked).
Maybe RS is a pedophile–who knows? And tolerated her sexting to get closer to Ky.
I think it’s totally possible that TH’s main sexual activities are virtual rather than skin-to-skin. I don’t know that she’s a pro; she didn’t seem all that skilled to me. More a hobbyist.
If you are not living right ~things will turn around & bite you in the BUTT & I fully believe the parents of the Horman family Kaine & Terri neither have acted in the best interests of thier precious children & sometimes it reminds me of something Jerry Springer would have thrived on~ my own opinion …
Dee in a thong- The wet spot on the sofa- The nutter Butter Party -The sucking a golf Ball through a garden hose- The naughty pics
All these images conjure up one thing- PETER SALT- the kind that actually will work.
In all seriousness-
What really keeps going through my mind- is even worse than any of these images- it is Blink’s quote stating that there is a sexual aspect to this crime, that and Kaine’s statement of unimaginable acts-
What happened to that poor little innocent boy? What did he see? What did he know? The thought makes me ill.
tmh wants to be a teacher? i kept thinking about that as i read the disgusting sext messages. i have always had a nagging suspicion that tmh was molesting kyron. does anyone else think this?
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1010/25/ijvm.01.html
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, stunning new developments in the Kyron Horman case. Nearly five months after Kyron vanished, his father, Kaine Horman, is determined to keep Kyron`s step-mom, his estranged wife, about to be divorced, Terri Horman, away from their young daughter.
In court papers, Kaine Horman says he believes Terri, quote, “abducted and may have caused unimaginable harm to Kyron.” Strong words. No wonder he doesn`t want Terri near their little girl. Little Kiara is almost 2 years old now. She hasn`t seen her mom in months. Her mom is Terri Horman, the step-mom of Kyron, who took him to school the day he disappeared, and she has been under a cloud of suspicion ever since.
The big question tonight: can Kaine Horman keep Terri away from their daughter, since she has not been charged with a crime and not even officially named a suspect?
Joining me now, Bruce McCain, attorney and former captain with the sheriff`s office investigating Kyron`s disappearance.
Bruce, what do you think? Can they keep Terri away from her baby girl?
BRUCE MCCAIN, ATTORNEY AND FORMER CAPTAIN WITH SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, Jane, actually, I think it`s going to be very difficult for the court not to approve some type of limited, perhaps case-worker-supervised visitation.
I can only speak as a lawyer here in Oregon, but Jane, the law in this state — this is not about Kaine`s rights or Terri`s rights. The first statutory priority the court must look at is what is in the best interest of the child.
And believe it or not, we have case-supervised visits occurring all the time in the state in which a government employee takes the child or children, goes to a public place, not overnight visits, and has the other non-custodial parent sit down and visit with those children in the best interest of the children.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.
MCCAIN: I think that`s ultimately what`s going to happen here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let me just say this. Now Kyron`s father believes that Terri — this is what he says cops told him — hired a hit man to try, or tried to hire a hit man to kill him, Kaine, her husband. So she hasn`t been charged with that. That`s the problem. She hasn`t been charged with anything. She`s not even officially considered a suspect. Why not?
MCCAIN: Well, Jane, you know, you hit on a really important point, because the very next sentence after that unimaginable harm sentence, he does state unequivocally, with no conditions, that Terri hired a hit man to murder him.
The problem is, he may have to prove that in court, and that`s going to create a nightmare for the district attorney and the sheriff`s office, because that`s all based on hearsay.
So if Terri`s lawyers are smart, they might say — they might call Kaine`s bluff and say, “Your honor, we`re not going to listen to hearsay. Bring those investigators in. Bring their notebooks. Bring their tape recordings, their wiretaps.” That`s the last thing investigators want to have happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.
MCCAIN: So this whole divorce discovery process could blow up the other way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Very briefly, here`s my big issue. What the heck happened? I mean, we had all of these new leads. We had the search of Sophie (ph) Island. We had the grand jury. We had Terri Horman. We had DeDe Spicher, her friend. We had police saying, did you see these two in this car? But nothing has come of anything. What happened?
MCCAIN: Well, Jane, frankly, to borrow the president`s analogy about driving this into the ditch, this investigation has been in the ditch for some time now.
The Sophie (ph) Island search was basically a P.R. gig in order to get 200,000 and something thousand dollars in overtime, which worked ,by the way. But right now there`s no criminal suspect. As you know, there`s never been a physical criminal crime scene here. Right now, there`s a million dollars in the hole. There`s nowhere to go.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it there. Bruce, thank you.
~~~
uh-oh
Yikes.
As Blink Jr used to say as a 5 year old- Is that for serious?
B
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
“I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.””
——————–
Could it be that releasing the texts was Rackner’s way of aiding in reciprocal discovey?
38.Mother Hen says:
October 28, 2010 at 10:20 am
Montana Mom,
I don’t want to be rude and ignore you but I don’t want to be off-topic. There was plenty discussed on the matter. You can go back and read a variety of posts by others as well to try and undertand better if you would like.
Have a nice day.
Mother Hen–thanks for the reply. I did read the other posts before I posted.
On to more important stuff…I do agree with you that people in powerful and/or influential positions should be held to a higher standard. I am a teacher, and I believe I have an obligation to be honest, trustworthy and a good role model both in school and in our community. That is an important part of my profession, just as it should be for LE. So TH wanted to teach? Well maybe one reason she failed to gain employment was because of her behavior outside of school (although her substitute teacher experiences could not have helped).
Dee-I agree that her texts seemed forced and fakey. That was my first impression–even before my head was saying “DISGUSTING,” the word “LAME” was popping in. I was really struck by how contrived it was. MC seemed to be making himself respond; I felt he was pretty disinterested and it made me think maybe he was doing it on behalf of Kaine. Actually, his responses seemed almost tortured, but maybe he was afraid of being blunt in text. Overall, very odd.
@29.Mom3.0 says:
October 28, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Dee in a thong- The wet spot on the sofa- The nutter Butter Party -The sucking a golf Ball through a garden hose- The naughty pics
All these images conjure up one thing- PETER SALT- the kind that actually will work.
In all seriousness-
What really keeps going through my mind- is even worse than any of these images- it is Blink’s quote stating that there is a sexual aspect to this crime, that and Kaine’s statement of unimaginable acts-
What happened to that poor little innocent boy? What did he see? What did he know? The thought makes me ill.
———————————-
TH is the sexual aspect. She’s a manipulator and thru the sexual venue she attracted unsavory characters to do her bidding. MC was not one of them. Ky obviously witnessed something before his ultimate demise. Ky was the one who was “blindsided”. moo
Pretty lousy PR stunt, considering the search mostly pissed people off, as far as I can tell from the oregon live comments.
I’m thinking this McCain guy is a bit of a publicity whore.
26.Madilu says:
October 28, 2010 at 8:28 pm
@GraceintheHills says:
October 28, 2010 at 12:17 am
11-As I pointed out before, Desiree reminded us that women suffering from PPD do not engage in the type of behavior TMH allegedly engaged in. **At this point, Desiree seems to slip and reveal that they are aware that TMH was SCHEMING TO HARM PEOPLE at or around that time.** I think this is a very important revelation.
*******************************************************
Madilu, after listening to the entire audio interview, and taking everything that was said in context, I believe the scheming to which DY referred likely involved Kyron’s disappearance as well as the MFH. I was also very surprised at KH’s candor and his willingness to divulge information about TMH. I was particularly struck by his description of her lies about their first two years together, lies he described as “her myth.” Why would she feel compelled to concoct a myth regarding their first two years together?
I cannot help but think that everything we are learning about this woman is a tiny but important piece of this puzzle.
My opinion only…..
@Madilu
…it was an alibi establishing (CYA) maneuver to email the teacher (so she could tell Kaine, “I emailed the teacher earlier but she didn’t get back to me yet about when to come back and get it!”
————————
Agreed. TH would know full well a teacher can’t read/respond to emails while teaching. Even if the email was sent during the teacher’s plan time, there would be no guarantee emails would be read during that time.
Montana Mom,
I’m not sure how Terri Horman came into the subject. I was commenting on a statement regarding LE. Nevertheless, as long as we are talking about teachers and Terri Horman, perhaps you have read the little arrangements made for very bad teachers in Oregon who have done things far worse than Terri Horman, including raping students. Some still have jobs.
I have posted the information on this site. You are free to Google for it if interested. It is a 2 part Oregonian series and I believe it was published during the latter part of 2008. Include in your potential search “Passing the Trash.”
Montana Mom says:
October 28, 2010 at 10:17 pm
38.Mother Hen says:
October 28, 2010 at 10:20 am
Montana Mom,
I don’t want to be rude and ignore you but I don’t want to be off-topic. There was plenty discussed on the matter. You can go back and read a variety of posts by others as well to try and undertand better if you would like.
Have a nice day.
Mother Hen–thanks for the reply. I did read the other posts before I posted.
On to more important stuff…I do agree with you that people in powerful and/or influential positions should be held to a higher standard. I am a teacher, and I believe I have an obligation to be honest, trustworthy and a good role model both in school and in our community. That is an important part of my profession, just as it should be for LE. So TH wanted to teach? Well maybe one reason she failed to gain employment was because of her behavior outside of school (although her substitute teacher experiences could not have helped).
@Cassie S
Hi~ Don’t you wonder why Kaine didnt put his daughter to bed while Terri was passed out drunk on the sofa~!?
——————————-
It states in the motion that when he would try to do so, TH engaged in altercations with him. Perhaps he did not want to upset his daughter further.