Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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Such good thinking here today. I’m too emotional now to think and that’s a place I try to stay away from; it makes me less than helpful to anyone. Yesterday I found the legal jousting interesting in a detached intellectual way. Today I think the modern world has created a number of overly complicated systems we think can address the pain that comes with living.
I’d like to see the people who hurt Ky put away so that they can never hurt another child. Other than that, “justice” just reads like so much angry revenge we adults think will make us feel better about the loss. There is no “justice” for Kyron. What could that even mean?
The photos of yesterday’s Sauvie Island search have fed into my mood. I want to bring all those SAR people indoors, put them in dry clothes, and feed them thick, homemade vegetable soup and cornbread. I want to feed the dogs very special treats and get someone to examine them for scratches and fluff up bedding in a quiet corner so they can rest their paws.
I want to get people who know something about horses to brush them and dry them (if you do that with horses) and feed them apples. And then I want to tell the SAR people how special they are and that I think Kyron would want them to go home now and realize they’ve done enough. More than enough. And there’s no defeat in that.
Link to search photos:
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/10%2009%202010%20SEARCH%20KYRON/
And the rest of it can take care of itself. I’m so deeply sad.
I am curious as to how Houze discovered that Rudy Sanchez is an alias. I assume that LE knows about the alias and it may very well be that Rudy himself told LE. Is it possible that the District Attorney told Houze that Rudy Sanchez is an alias? As a professional courtesy? Something like; ‘I’ll give you a tiny break, save ya some billable hours from your PI, Rudy Sanchez is an alias, nope, can’t give you his real name.’?
Beautiful post beejay. <3 to Ky and his family and bless all the searchers and the animals.
I think the concern for Kiara’s welfare in seeing her mother rests a lot on what Terri’s eventual fate is. I think to reintroduce Mom back to Kitty..then Mom goes to prison…that’s not in Kiara’s best interest at this age. A psychiatrist needs to weigh in on all that, of course, but I think those factors keep the topic in limbo. Also hard to judge when we don’t know Terri’s role in this mess, who is still on the loose and possibly seeking more revenge…and on and on. If Terri wants to see Kiara, she can do so by coming clean so everyone knows what in the hell is going on. It seems hard for the court to rule on so many unknowns. Certainly Terri is innocent until proven guilty, but they still have to look out for the safety of Kiara.
Love this site -especially the NAME inasmuch as after reading everything I can about this case, I am back to square one. My first reaction: Terry looks scared silly. Her husband: bah!! Full of himself. Also noticed that Terry almost pushed his hand away when he put it around her shoulder. She does despise him. To me, Terri looks fabulous right now. This tells me she is getting her act together and also that she truly was miserable with Kaine. My opinion. And of course all this factors into Kyron’s disappearance. sigh
@beejay: Your warmth spread across the country to me so I am sure the SAR people and Kyron felt it as well. Be well.
@42.GraceintheHills says:
October 10, 2010 at 12:54 pm
24.enumclawrose says:
October 10, 2010 at 5:07 am
GraceintheHills 10/09 1:37am
RE: The Ransom Note (My MOO)
There is no proof of a ransom note.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@E-Rose: Thanks so much for your post. I agree that this could have been staged to appear as if Kyron were kidnapped, but I am wondering if the note/indication of kidnapping came AFTER LE searched the area around Skyline. It just seems that, with all the initial intense searching of the area around Skyline, LE treated it as if Kyron had walked or wandered away from the school. I guess the other scenario would be that LE may have suspected the alleged “kidnapper” left/held Kyron near the school.
———————————-
The question: Who staged the supposed kidnapping?
TH.
The why?
To throw off investigators and cast suspicion on someone other than herself (finger pointing at RS). Her short marriage to Kaine was failing, Ky was a thorn in her side, she wanted to punish Kaine for losing James, she figured a divorce would ensue, she would take Kiara and get child support from Kaine plus accumulated marital assets. In her mind she fully expected to get away with the plan.
The how?
Paid someone she knew to take Ky. Possibly someone who was willing to do it to support a drug habit. Possibly called someone from a pay phone on the 4th to confirm, meet and make payment. Didn’t want to and doesn’t know where Ky is and obviously does not care considering her behaviour from the beginning. I expect she will never talk..not in her nature.
Beejay, sending you a big hug today! There is something in the air today, especially around Skyline (just got back from that area). Gloomy doesn’t even begin to describe the mood. Hoping for a better day tomorrow, one with some peace for Kyron’s family and the rest of us who have adopted him into our hearts.
Lemonhead says: October 9, 2010 at 7:46 pm
“Blink, a few days ago, one of your posters mentioned the video of someone asking Terri if she was pregnant. I thought fluff, but later found a pic of Terri holding her abdomen. It was distended a bit probably nothing, but perhaps something to watch. I certainly don’t want to start a rumor mill.”
This is very interesting. I just assumed that Terri was having weight issues. However, morning sickness would explain the weight loss.
Still, I’m not about to take seriously a reporter who yells “Terri, are you pregnant? Terri, where’s the body? Where’s the body, Terri? What have you done with Kyron’s body?” at someone exiting the courthouse. (Who is that reporter, anyway? I did not recognize her.)
Editors and producers ask reporters to run out all sorts of ridiculous leads and rumors. Local TV and tabloid reporters tend not to think twice about asking rude or “gotcha” type questions, regardless of wether he or she believes there is any basis for the inquiry.
IMHO, the reporter may have been trying to get Terri to flash anger, or at the very least look over at her
On the other hand, there have been several news reports that Terri and her then-husband Ron Tarver tried unsuccessfully to conceive a child. Terri stated on Facebook (which is, as we all know, a great place to discuss private matters) that she believed that she was infertile, but subsequently conceived James.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
The Oregonian article also discussed Mr. Tarver’s belief that Terri was unfaithful to him. There is nothing in either article to suggest that the problem in conceiving wasn’t Terri, but rather Ron Tarver, however. It’s just an odd pairing of facts.
Kaine was also surprised by Terri’s pregnancy, because he “thought they were not going to have children.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
This is different from Terri’s prior claim that she could not have children.
After having Kiara, Terri made statements in January 2010 that suggested she was infertile: “…I think Kiara broke the mold. We can’t have anymore and I think of it as ending on a happy note.”
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2050152&http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2018853&id=1264414625
Terri’s statement does not state she is incapable of having children, only that “[w]e can’t have anymore [children].” Terri does not state why they are not having more children (infertility, surgical sterilization, money issues, etc.).
Given the alleged December 26 9-1-1 phone call, it would be very interesting if it turned out to be not only a domestic violence incident, but also related to an argument about getting pregnant, all of which is very hypothetical.
Regardless , I’m sure Kaine would be very surprised to learn Terri was pregnant again, given her January 2010 statements all but stating she was infertile.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Annals says: October 10, 2010 at 4:24 pm
“I am curious as to how Houze discovered that Rudy Sanchez is an alias. I assume that LE knows about the alias and it may very well be that Rudy himself told LE. Is it possible that the District Attorney told Houze that Rudy Sanchez is an alias? As a professional courtesy? Something like; ‘I’ll give you a tiny break, save ya some billable hours from your PI, Rudy Sanchez is an alias, nope, can’t give you his real name.’?”
IMHO, the DA is not going to jeopardize its (allegedly) star witness by hurrying along Stephen Houze’s hunt for him.
This could be a situation where Houze made a “reasonable” effort to locate the witness by checking the phone book and trying to call the guy’s last-known number.
Houze may have elected to stop short of more extraordinary efforts if he had any reason to believe that locating “Rudy Sanchez” would not be helpful to his client. This does not mean that Houze reached this conclusion based on his client’s statements, however.
Criminal defense attorneys hear from many clients who profess their innocence but later turn out to be guilty as sin. This is not to say that Terri is guilty of anything. Rather, based on her divorce lawyer’s statements, she is concerned about being charged with some sort of criminal act.
Law enforcement and Kyron’s other family members have made allegations pertaining to Kyron’s disappearance that suggest a a wide variety of criminal charges.
I think we can all agree that someone may eventually be charged with custodial interference, kidnapping, and/or murder.
IMHO — and also very hypothetically speaking, there could be other charges as well, such as: obstructing governmental or judicial administration (ORS 162.235), tampering with a witness (ORS 162.285) — suggested by Desiree, Kaine, and Tony Young’s statement, tampering with physical evidence (ORS 162.295), hindering prosecution (ORS 162.325), initiating a false report (ORS 162.375), etc.
__________________________________
Riverpearl says: October 8, 2010 at 7:46 pm
>#1. States: “TMH ONLY income for 2010 was unemployment that ended June 2010″.
>ANSWER: TMH HAS RECEIVED over $500.00 in CHILD SUPPORT EVERY MONTH since her
>divorce from 2nd husband who adopted her son JM from her 1st marriage.
>
>#2. STATES: “There is no language in ORS 107.095(1) that authorizes the court to order a person
>who is not a party to a divorce to pay suit money, especially when that person is a lawyer who is
>hired in a different matter.”
>ANSWER:The PERSON that PAID suit money IS a LAWYER (SH?) who was HIRED in a different
>manner.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/c/0/9/c09a8c35-dbaa-4b10-860f-4487d00f3637/Memo_suitmoney.pdf
IMHO, the motion regarding suit money is trying to get at one of the following issues (all hypothetical):
1. Terri was not employed and had no means to access funds of any sort of significant amount, yet she allegedly claimed to have paid $350,000 to attorney Stephen Houze. Kaine has no idea where she got the money, and given the timing (following Kyron’s disappearance), he wants answers.
2. Kaine and/or Terri had money or item(s) of value that Kaine believes Terri conveyed as payment to her attorney. The parties both know what those items are, but neither is going to talk about them in court for whatever reason (i.e. under the table earnings, drugs, etc.). Kaine wants Terri to return the money because he views it as “his,” or in the alternative, return his share of the money.
3. Kaine believes that the money Terri paid her lawyer has something to do with Kyron’s disappearance. (This could be very interesting if it later turns out that the family paid a ransom.)
4. Kaine knows Terri is lying about the amount she paid her lawyer, and he wants her to admit that she’s lying so that he can use that to discredit her. (This could have everything to do with the alleged December 26 9-1-1 call, as Kaine may be trying to paint Terri as a pathological liar.)
5. Kaine has no idea where she got the money, but he believes that the money is “theirs” not “hers” and wants to take his share of it.
Of course, all of this is hypothetical. The only people who know what are going on inside Kaine or Terri’s head is that person him or herself.
As a former caseworker, I know that even criminals have a right to visititation. Is there any chance she could get supervised visitiation in this case?
Yes, I think what people are missing is what is in Kiara’s best interests. She is just a baby, who spent all her time with her Mommy and now missing brother. Aside from her Daddy, she has not seen people that she loves, are part of her world, and like it or not, even as a little one, that hole needs reassurance to the extent it can right now.
That said, I would never grant her anything but supervised visitation for the foreseeable ever-
B
Blinksters-need your help. While I have a distinct feeling about the man in Mayor Sam’s tweet and his possible ID, I have been digging through all kinds of past info and posts from multiple sources(some of which was incorrect and studiously and politely corrected by fellow posters). It has been a very valuable exercise, and I recommend it! Even with all the Sanchez name permutations, multiple marriages of all parties involved,and conflicting info,there is a fairly clear picture that emerges.
I still have further questions that nag…why has there been no info on Lisa Fuhrer Pumala-Cruz? Why does Gram Pumala seem to have more contact with her former son-in-law than her first-born daughter? Where was Mom Pumala on June 4? Why no interview? Tanner states he didn’t know our sweet Kyron was missing until he watched the evening news with Dad. Why is Dad living with his former in laws? Where was Lisa? Why would Gram go against LE? I think this is very telling.
Wishing peace for this young soul and his family.
Prayers for Kyron.
Beejay-
In my post @ 6:51am that you comment to, I said: “I know KPTV said they would make correction from Medford to Roseburg but I find it hinky those two cities names would be in error.”
I made my remark due to many posters asking WHO &/ or WHY TMH would move to Medford.
I realized the comments cited by many posters that DY is the ONLY person to live in Medford, is in fact, inaccurate. Because there was indeed another person living there, Lisa Fuhrer Pumala.
Further along in my comment, I remarked that LFP would be just as familiar w/ SI as BP & has a likely connection to Horman’s because her son TP claims to be Kyron’s best friend. I also asked IF LFP could have been w/ TP @ the SF & IF she would know A/K/A “Rudy”.
Additionally, I asked if anyone w/ Facebook access had seen any “friending”/ photos etc between TMH & LFP.
In all, it is JMHO questioning.
Regardless WHERE TMH lives, it occurred to be BP is NOT the ONLY person who has connection to SI + TP + Kyron/Horman’s.
All my own opinion.
Seriously no need to come for me out here unless you want to sight see. Be well.
PS. But if you want to sleuth someone else- there is always LFP.
__________
krowdkat-
Could TMH be in her OWN residence? Could this be the way for TMH & attorney to”show” the court (& DHS if involved) that she is a “fit” & “capable” mother for Kitty. With (again) having JM living w/ her, in her own residence (no g’parents etc). To show that she can “support” JM & herself but that the court will “see” she “needs” more $ (from KH) to provide for Kitty. Also, “this” would “show” the court she would need “spousal” support because she is (&has been) a stay @ home mom w/ 2 minor children, one that is a 2y/o.
Is this all about “rehabilitation ” for the court ?
================
beejay says:
October 10, 2010 at 9:13 am
@Riverpearl:
Terri has NOT moved to Medford.
Don’t make me come out there
++++++++++++++++++
krowdkat says:
October 9, 2010 at 8:41 pm
I’m beginning to wonder if TH’s parents didn’t refinance their home to rent and/or down payment a place for TH and James. Probably wouldn’t be to hard to find out, no?!? I feel for them in their elderly years.
Why Medford, INDEED??? Who besides DY and TY could TH know there. Too weird.
@beejay
that post about SAR , dogs and horses touched my heart
it expresses how I think and feel so well
this weather is such a bummer
I am always amazed at the work these people do year round, they
are heros to me and the dogs and horses also
thanks for the post remembering them today
@pps…I went to that link and read something that made me sit straight up…the comment about what was “missing” in the that first news conference, the answer was “anger”, and that is sooooo right on the money! Thanks for that link, it was very interesting!
@beejay…sounds like your havin’ a bad day, you need a hug, go get one! (I’d do it but I’m way over here in Kentucky….I can send ya some bluegrass for those horses if ya want)
@mom… yep I see now that sleuth has an “e” in it. Not an excuse, but I tend to type the way I speak and I speak a whole lot like Ellie May Clampett from the Beverly Hillbillies. Hard as heck to correctly spell something that looks entirely different than the way it’s said. Vowells seem to be my biggest problem, all of ‘em.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
Brandon’s comment from the last thread has an interesting twist.
->RE-POST~
Bradon says:
October 9, 2010 at 10:55 pm
In MHO, TMH had discussed her life with RS and how much better it would be if Kyron were out of her life. The MFH is a LE decoy. RS said he could find some one to kidnap Kyron and make it look like a sex crime case. Agreement was that TMH would never know when Kyron would be removed from her life. When the day occured she would be given confirmation with an item, ie Ky’s glasses, to confirm they have Ky. The morning this occured, according to other posts, TMH panicked and wanted to change her mind. She tried to find Ky with the help of a friend. At some point she may have been told that he would be on the bus home, she would just have to be calm and not tell anyone. No one would ever know he went missing if she did what she was told. When Ky was not on the bus, according to reports she lost her composure and became hysterical. The bus driver calls the school to let them know that Ky was not on the bus. LE gets involved and Ky must be sacrificed. Just another theory to add to the list.
Blink,
I keep going back to the beginning, perplexed.
There are so many discussions online: media comments, Facebook and blogs since June 4, including wierd troll comments. Do you think TH (or DDS) planted clues in comments somewhere, esp. before MFH sting?
Does LE save these, can ISP computer be traced back?
I scroll and roll but can not find anywhere what Brian Pumala’s record is.
Here is info on search/ searchers today.
================
“Our crews noticed searchers focusing on small bodies of water on Sauvie Island, going over the same areas several times with different teams. Many of the ponds were adjacent to gravel roads, not main roads on the island.”
There is video & still photos @ link
http://www.katu.com/news/local/104675229.html
=============
“About 80 degrees last weekend, the weather was dry and comfortable. This weekend, it was wet and soggy. Still, dozens of people showed up. Most of them are volunteers who gave up their time to help find Kyron. They came from eight different counties.’
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Volunteer-searchers-comb-Sauvie-Island-again/T-JY1_LLgUKEhZeFQ0pxWw.cspx
=============
“Sunday’s effort included 80 searchers from eight counties, again focusing on the eastern side of the island along Rentenaar Road.”
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine–Terri-Horman-due-in-court-for-divorce-hearing-104487169.html
================
“A total of 80 searchers returned to Sauvie Island today for the second day of the second consecutive weekend in the search for Kyron Horman, the missing boy who disappeared four months ago.”
“… searchers on the ground, horseback and with dogs were on the island despite the wet weather.”
“They have the appropriate rain gear,” Lindstrand said. “It just makes it a little more miserable.”
“Today’s search included 12 organizations from eight Washington and Oregon counties, including Clackamas, Yamhill, Polk, Marion, Deschutes, Wasco and Clark counties. Lindstrand said it was not clear whether search and rescue crews would return to the island next weekend.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/searchers_continue_to_comb_sau.html
What about Ky’s backpack and coat? I thought Kaine said he and Terri went to the school after they learned Ky was marked absent and picked up the SF project and his backpack and coat. According to his statement I’m assuming the backpack and coat were in the Horman’s possession by the time LE first arrived at their home. Did the family provide the backpack and coat to LE for a scent? I read LE asked for an item with Ky’s scent and Terri told them she washed all of his clothes…?? Another unknown factor.
I am a very occasional poster only, but I am a daily lurker. I am icredibly impressed with the insight of you amazing people! Beejay and Idahogal, I feel the same deep sadness today that you write about. It’s the rain. June 4 and 5 were such wet miserable days, but it didn’t keep searchers home. They slogged through the wet underbrush, determined to find Kyron. Here we are months later, and the rains have started. Again SI is crowded with wet determined searchers, but still no Kyron. It feels almost like we have come full circle–back to June.
I keep getting hung up about the two Fred Meyers and (possibly) an Albertson’s all in a short amount of time. It seems to me that Freddy’s is a lousy place for an exchange to take place. Way too big, way too public. Definitely on camera. Fred Meyer is known locally for “one stop shopping”. They have a little of everything, including banks. All FMs, and at least some Albertson’s, have a Chase bank inside. I know when I’m looking for a quick ATM, I head for Fred’s. Maybe Terri did too.
What great thinking has been shared today and throughout the weekend here on BOC.
Something I read today triggered a new idea as a possibility…and I apologize if this has already been theorized here before.
FWIW – I am of the “camp” that believes Terri’s lifestyle, actions, etc. invited this horrible crime to Precious Kyron…but, I also believe Terri is NOT directly involved nor do I believe she planned for this to happen in any way.
That being said…I’m not closed minded enough to read and ponder and NOT accept other theories as possibilities. So, while reading this evening LE had not yet discovered anything on SI, but still kept searching, makes believe they feel at some point…after the abduction, he was there.
Then, this thought occured to me…if Terri or accomplice only was near or on Suavie Island just briefly for a hand-off/transfer…and Kyron was taken away…NOT left on SI…how would/could that work?? First of all, based on timeline given thus far, Terri would not have had time for much more than a “transfer” if she is in fact involved. She barely had time to get to SI and back to the gym based on what has been reported…although, from what I understand, it was “doable”.
So…going with the “transfer” theory, I was thinking that anyone who was introduced as a “friend” and promised they would be taking Kyron to rendevous to meet/visitation swap with his mother, Desiree, would certainly be accepted by Kyron.
I, myself, caught many a ride as a young child 9-12 (not as young as Kyron) to go back and forth the 3 hours separating my parents for visitations. Literally, I rode with “friends” of parents who were headed in direction already, but they were NEW people to me. Honestly, and kinda sadly, I admit I never questioned it. I was sooo happy to be seeing/visiting my parent, I didn’t care who brought me.
Anyway, this was just a thought that occurred to me. Unfortunately, I still feel they will not find Kyron. Sadly, I believe if he is ever found, it will not be anywhere near SI, Portland and likely not in Oregon. I sincerely pray I am wrong…it’s my greatest wish I am wrong on this.
Prayers for Kyron and his family and the volunteer SAR workers everywhere.
evie says:
October 10, 2010 at 1:24 pm
@ enumclawrose says:
October 10, 2010 at 6:08 am
RE:Idahogal 10/08 11:10 RE: MONEY SUIT
“There is one federal agency that has taken down some of the most notorious criminals of our time and before our time. The employees of this agency don’t carry guns, they wear suits and ties and they wield their power with a pen and calculator. Any guesses? How about the IRS.”
e-rose, you’re brilliant. One of my favorite immigration attorneys likes to remind us that Al Capone wasn’t done for all his bad deeds… they got him on tax evasion.
————-
brilliant – agreed! This is why I said one or more threads ago that I think Kaine has a right to know where the money came from beyond the potential criminal issues. If Terri had any assets he didn’t know about, anything hidden away, any sort of income (even if not legit), he’s going to need a tax attorney to straighten it all out since I’m sure they must have filed joint returns. If they go back and file separately or whatever, he will end up owing money most likely. I think he has a right to know if there are any income tax issues related to where she got the money.
@Idahogal – are you saying that might be “Rudy” – He certainly looks at least somewhat like other photo (could die hair black and grow goatee) and is around the right age and size
AND I have hated it when people start jumping off on someone looking like someone else and I don’t usually see the resemblance or the ages and heights are different, etc. Interesting
A common reason parents need supervised visitation is due to their substance abuse and is probably the # 1 reason in DHS cases. Since you can’t trust them to be clean and sober, they are not safe with the child and of course other past behavior as well. Flight risk? Didn’t it come out, which would have to be a leak, that DHS is involved?
What is an USI hold? doesn’t the Marshall hold cover immigration as well.
Hi, Beejay,
I’m wondering if you’ve got time to elaborate on your comment regarding those with contacts in LE and their ability to get things ‘pulled’ from their records. I find this very interesting and would like more information.
Beejay said:
“Note: a lot of people with contacts in LE are able to get records of things pulled so that it never shows up in a criminal records search.”
Tia!
I’m back in comment limbo? It keeps not even going to moderation, then says I’ve already said it. I’ve looked back to Oct. 8 just in case, but I actually tried to post this on Oct. 10th. I’ll try again with this new paragraph at the start and see what happens.
**********************
Snipped from:
puzzled says:
October 8, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Just maybe .. and here is where I’ve flipped .. it’s TH that has been under investigation for some time prior to June 4th for drug sales, MFH .. maybe the MFH sting was more than an entrapment (handy that a DEA agent was available) ..
______________________________________
That rang a bell with me, as I was wondering yesterday about an old statement from Sheriff Stanton I just re-read. This is the statement he made that caught my eye.
*****************
“During this investigation Terri Horman has been cooperative and there have been other times she has not,” Staton wrote. “We cannot speak to specifics regarding this issue.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/mcso_progress_continues_in_sea.html
******************
This is how I read that statement:
“During “THIS” investigation Terri Horman has been cooperative and there have been “OTHER” times she has not,” ….
********
I read that yesterday and for the first time, after reading that statement many times before, I went “huh”?
So, could this mean that truly, during “THIS investigation,(meaning the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance), that TH has cooperated? But during some “OTHER” investigation, (possibly starting before Kyron disappeared, involving drugs, porn or whatever), TH was not so cooperative?
i think it would be a crime in itself to allow her any visitation with her daughter when she is publicly stating that she will not speak because she will incriminate herself.To me, thats her accepting some culpability in a yet unknown crime/crime’s, but in essence she’s saying to law enforcement you can’t touch me. She’s essentially admitting (by not admitting) to bringing harm to a child and asking for access to another child. God, i hope they find something on the island to further incriminate her. i am so proud of law enforcement not calling her a suspect as of yet sothey don’t have to turn over their intel. Houze has zero rights to any information collected on his client because she is not officially a suspect. the cat and mouse game will continue here, but the message is clear terri your heading to jail.
lyla says:
October 8, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Thanks Idahogal…one more question..(or two)..Is this about revenge, an unpaid debt and the biggie….your opinion..why was Kyron disposed of? What satisfaction/reward did the individual(s) receive for participating in his demise?
This is a maybe a stretch and strictly MOO, but after thinking about your question of Ky’s demise and who would potentially get any reward out of it, is it possible that Ky might have knew/saw things relating to TMH and/or her friends/associates that TMH didn’t want known and this was her motivation for getting rid of him? Could it really have been revenge against Kaine, protecting herself in some way or a combo of both? I wish I knew, but whatever issues TMH had w/Kaine, there was no need to involve an innocent little boy in the battle. But again, I am referring to how normal people think and act and I get the impression that TM is anything but that.
What is LE doing in between the Sauvie Island searches to protect their building a case and any possible evidence Sauvie Island might in fact hold? I mean … they search on weekends but that’s it, so that technically leaves 5 days in between for anyone who might have something to hide there to go rearrange, move or destroy evidence hidden there. Anyone know if LE might have some 24-hr stakeouts around Sauvie (or the entrance … only one way on/off the island, yes?) to potentially ID any possible evidence bandits? The island is pretty large from what I understand and if they don’t really know where or even IF Sauvie has what they are looking for, then how would they even begin to stand watch to make sure no one tampered with possible evidence? That would be a major undertaking considering the area and all the unknowns with this case … that is, unless …. they have an idea of what they’re looking for and the general area it’s in and just aren’t telling the public that.
SouthernMom says:
October 10, 2010 at 11:56 pm
Unfortunately, I still feel they will not find Kyron. Sadly, I believe if he is ever found, it will not be anywhere near SI, Portland and likely not in Oregon. I sincerely pray I am wrong…it’s my greatest wish I am wrong on this.
I somewhat agree with you, SouthernMom. Not really sure what to think about this Sauvie Island business, but just because there was a cell phone ping (I believe this has recently been corraborated in the news and will find the link in a minute) on Sauvie, doesn’t mean Ky is still actually there. It only means it’s likely at some time he was. He could easily have been transferred or handed off to someone right away. The Sauvie Island searches don’t really make sense to me only because it seems LE keeps focusing there even though they haven’t allegedly found anything yet to keep them there. But maybe they have and it’s being kept close to the vest. Still … I wish we knew why they seem to be focusing there only and not really investigating anywhere else. Is it really possible they know what they are looking for is definitely there? Otherwise, these Sauvie searches just seem like an awful lot of time being potentially wasted.
Blink … you mentioned in earlier post above that Ky was deceased (unofficially) so I’m assuming your sources have credible info to believe this is the case? Is there any possibility whatsoever that Ky was taken and handed off to someone and still alive “out there” somewhere? I’m guessing not, but just had to ask because as sad as it makes me that he might be truly deceased, the idea that he might still be alive and out there somewhere being abused, molested, used and hurt by some unknown assailant gives me nightmares at night.
Sources: Search for Kyron Horman Focuses on Step-Mom, Cell Records
4:52 PM June 17th, 2010
–snipped–
WW has learned that federal, county and city law-enforcement officials say the reason for the search of Sauvie Island is that cell-phone records reveal Kyron’s step-mother, Terri Moulton Horman, may have been on the island the day he disappeared.
This information comes from five separate law-enforcement officials from agencies at the city, county and federal level. To our knowledge, none is directly involved with the investigation.
But several said they’ve heard the same or similar accounts from multiple officials in the law-enforcement community. All agreed that Terri Moulton Horman has become a main focus of police attention because of problems with her story.
Four of the sources say they’ve heard Horman’s story doesn’t jibe with her cell-phone records from June 4
From the above article I had assumed that TH’s cell phone had pinged the towers around Skyline School and LE was able to triangulate a spot on SI where they believed TH to have been the morning of June 4th.
Since I know the time it takes to drive from FM2 to SI and then back to the gym, I had a difficult time seeing where she would have had the time to do anything more than meet up and talk with someone for a few minutes before heading back to the gym. Then a short while ago Blink said LE had her on video at the Albertsons much farther away. I have not been able to reconcile this with the known timeline and her even being able to meet anyone on SI.
Just this morning, I was smart enough to go back to the original article and had an “Oh Duh” moment. The article says “cell-phone records reveal Kyron’s step-mother, Terri Moulton Horman, may have been on the island the day he disappeared.” MAY HAVE BEEN is not saying she was on SI for certain. Now it sounds to me that the questions asked the LE officials were “was she there?” “could she have been there?” And the answer, since these officials were not directly involved in the investigation, was, “maybe.” I’m thinking now that it was not her phone that pinged and placed her on SI, but while she was running from one FM to the next and then who knows where, she received a call from someone who was actually on SI.
margarete miller says:
October 10, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Love this site -especially the NAME inasmuch as after reading everything I can about this case, I am back to square one. My first reaction: Terry looks scared silly. Her husband: bah!! Full of himself. Also noticed that Terry almost pushed his hand away when he put it around her shoulder. She does despise him. To me, Terri looks fabulous right now. This tells me she is getting her act together and also that she truly was miserable with Kaine. My opinion. And of course all this factors into Kyron’s disappearance. sigh
Nah, you can totally tell that she was PO’d Kaine didn’t believe her when she said she had nothing to do with it. Kaine looked to be in shock to me and processing the fact that his wife could have actually had something to do with his sons disappearance. KH is not involved in my opinion.
S says:
October 11, 2010 at 10:21 am
I’m thinking now that it was not her phone that pinged and placed her on SI, but while she was running from one FM to the next and then who knows where, she received a call from someone who was actually on SI.
—————————————-
That’s a very good point. LE would have to know who called her that day. Have they interrogated this person and they’re getting nothing?????? After all this time? Argh.
GraceintheHills says:
October 10, 2010 at 12:36 pm
@S: IMHO, TMH’s legal team may “appear” nonchalant about RS’s possible testimony, but, believe me, they are concerned. I just don’t buy that they could not “find” him.
I definitely agree that it is rather suspicious that they could not find him when, per Blink, she and OL found him with little difficulty. I’m not very good at interpreting the law or attorney posturing. What happens when attorneys subpoena someone to court who does not show? Don’t they get into trouble? Did they attempt to subpoena him and the papers could not be served? I really wonder about this one.
When an inmate going in for booking can not at that time be identified, their booking sheet usually uses John Doe. If a person was being booked in as a material witness, unless told otherwise, it’s possible he’d be booked in as John Doe.(alias). Try finding John Doe in Oregon or Washington jails. Chances are there are as many John Doe’s as there are variations on Sanchez/other names.
I think Houze and Bunch were using Rudy as a big bluff. Like you have MC…we have Rudy and guess what!!
RE; newsatfive says: October 10, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Thanks, Nwesatfive for responding to my question;
(Snipped from my last post; Annals says: October 10, 2010 at 4:24 pm)
“I am curious as to how Houze discovered that Rudy Sanchez is an alias. I assume that LE knows about the alias and it may very well be that Rudy himself told LE. Is it possible that the District Attorney told Houze that Rudy Sanchez is an alias? As a professional courtesy?
Newsatfive’s responce to me; also snipped;
IMHO, the DA is not going to jeopardize its (allegedly) star witness by hurrying along Stephen Houze’s hunt for him.
This could be a situation where Houze made a “reasonable” effort to locate the witness by checking the phone book and trying to call the guy’s last-known number.
Houze may have elected to stop short of more extraordinary efforts if he had any reason to believe that locating “Rudy Sanchez” would not be helpful to his client. This does not mean that Houze reached this conclusion based on his client’s statements, however.
—————————————————
I agree, they’d at least try to locate him whether or not they actually ever intended to subpoena him in the divorce proceedings. And as you say once a cursory, unsuccessful pass at finding him was made, that bolstered their argument that facts in the MFH plot are not discoverable for them.
Not a great sleuther here but I admire those of you with the wherewithall to pursue the truth for this little boy. My only contribution is that of a fan in the stands cheering on our brave blinksters. Thank you to Blink and the unblinkables.
I once commented I saw resolve in the face of TH. The most recent pic in front of the courthouse (posted here above)has me perplexed. After all my years on this planet I feel I can read body language, facial expressions and I look for the unsaid in any statement.
This face seems treed. Like a cornered cat she is currently safe and desperate for a way out. Not unwilling to fight but thinking the tree is her best option at this point. I see a distant gaze indicating some guilt. She would gladly confess to a history of stealing cookies from the cookie jar if only she could prove it was not her who knocked the jar off the counter, sending shards and broken cookies all over the kitchen floor. It is a mess no cleanup can hide, for the jar will always be missing.
With regard to the ache in your hearts, in today’s vernacular….I feel ya. All the way from Kentucky and with a fathers love I bid you peace young Kyron.
10.Whaazupwitchu says:
October 11, 2010 at 12:41 am
@Idahogal – are you saying that might be “Rudy” – He certainly looks at least somewhat like other photo (could die hair black and grow goatee) and is around the right age and size
AND I have hated it when people start jumping off on someone looking like someone else and I don’t usually see the resemblance or the ages and heights are different, etc. Interesting
**********************************
@Whaazup- I’m not sure which photos you are referring to, so I will just answer as best I can. What I am saying is this: The two men in the background of the SF photos taken by TH are IMO unrecognizable. One is a “headless lumberjack” or perhaps a chubby or pregnant woman in a flannel shirt, and the other appears to be a tall, older white man that could be Santa Claus for all I know, the pictures are just too blurry. @Panda put forth a theory that perhaps RS was indeed at the SF acting as a chaperone with 2 little girls, and further that maybe RS lured Ky outside with these 2 girls and took him away. I believe Panda was thinking that perhaps one of the girls was the missing Jamie Mejia, which MIGHT be RS’s daughter, and perhaps this is part of/or the entire reason that Jamie Mejia and Ky are both missing. This would tie into the TH email of June 5th in which she claims that Ky was seen by others at the SF with a man chaperone and 2 girls after she left. See link and snip below:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html
“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic – had to been 300 people running around – no coordination …”
I’m on record with my theory that RS is the one that lured Ky out of the school, so this part of Panda’s theory was another angle for me to consider. It is all speculation, and sadly I don’t think any of us will know the whole truth for a long time. I would LOVE to think the Ky is stashed somewhere and will be found, but that is my heart talking and not my head.
It sure seems like things are heating up behind the scenes. Blink, can you sense some movement? Could there actually be an arrest soon?
Kaine Horman, full of himself? WTH is that supposed to mean? Kaine Horman looks so incredibly hurt in every photo taken of him. They are coming to get Terri. It’s just a matter of time. She doesn’t look fabulous. She looks stressed and cold as ice!!!!!!!
Idahogal,
I think you’re close but I would challenge you to ask the question — why is the lumberjack headless. I’m not sure you and I agree on that. If you come to the same conclusion that I have come to, it will be a serious AHA moment.
Why do I think the lumberjack is RS? Because of things Blink has hinted at. Because he is headless. Because RS body type and lumberjack body type match.
Why do I think the girl is Jamie? Because she totally could be, based on looks, though the resolution is poor. Because shortly after this picture was taken the child disappeared. Because the day that she was listed as missing was the same day the reward was doubled.
Does anyone know if this person is related to Anselmo? I can’t seem to pull up a picture. I don’t know if I’m just not finding the right button or what?
I can’t get info on when he was arrested either.
SANCHEZ-SANCHEZ, JUAN CARLOS
Victim Notification (VINE) for this Inmate:InfoSign upSex:M”Race:WDOB:1976-09-20Height:5′ 07″Weight:170JID:PO********MNI:245076FBI:SID:18622977ST:ORBooking Charge/Orig OSB Case Court Arrest Agency Security Scheduled Release
In Custody — Last Listed Location — Facility: OA
1012331 000.002 / HOLD ICE 2010-09-08 HBL
1012331 475.884 PCS COCAINE / UNLAWFUL POSSESS COC OR81247231 C101684CR WCC 2010-09-03 HBS 2011-02-05
1012331 475.890 DCS METH / UNL DELIVER METHAMPH OR81247231 C101684CR WCC 2010-09-03 HBS
@ Beejay. That is exactly right. My bad. I should have said IMO.
I will try to remember.
Whoops, left the link out, man I am having serious brain farts the past couple of days,,,, Calgon, take me PLEASEEEEEEE!
http://www.co.washington.or.us/Sheriff/Jail/who-is-in-custody.cfm?alpha=S
It is possible to go to court and have your own particular records sealed – such as an arrest record that shows charges that were dropped. Some employers (particularly some government jobs, don’t know who else) look at arrest records, not just convictions. Sometimes this seems fair to me, sometimes not. This (sealing) does have to be approved by a judge. If this is done, it is not supposed to show up in a criminal record search.
I’m not sure, given all the different departments, recorders, paperwork, computers, attorneys who get copies, etc., how someone in LE would be able to “pull” records or something from records. I don’t know how the witness protection program works, for example, but I still doubt that any individual LE officer or official could legally make “adjustments” to records. Perhaps the key word is “legally”. And if not legally, then you might never know when something would show up again.
———————-
Word Girl says:
October 11, 2010 at 3:06 am
Hi, Beejay,
I’m wondering if you’ve got time to elaborate on your comment regarding those with contacts in LE and their ability to get things ‘pulled’ from their records. I find this very interesting and would like more information.
Beejay said:
“Note: a lot of people with contacts in LE are able to get records of things pulled so that it never shows up in a criminal records search.”
This just in from KVAL:
“A spokeswoman for the Multnomah County sheriff’s office says a second straight weekend of searching on a Portland island turned up junk piles and deer bones.
But Lt. Mary Lindstrand says she knows of nothing new in the search for the boy who disappeared last June from his school.
Lindstrand said Monday no decision has been made yet whether the volunteer searchers would return again this weekend as part of the ongoing investigation.”
losing weight cuz you’re pregnant? now there’s a twist. i suspect i’d be losing weight if i were in her shoes too. no big mystery here, i’m afraid. it’s called the stress diet. they’re all showing signs of it. terri’s face no looks like her duii mug shot. she’s attractive thinner.
“Yes, I think what people are missing is what is in Kiara’s best interests. She is just a baby, who spent all her time with her Mommy and now missing brother. Aside from her Daddy, she has not seen people that she loves, are part of her world, and like it or not, even as a little one, that hole needs reassurance to the extent it can right now.
That said, I would never grant her anything but supervised visitation for the foreseeable ever-
B”
With the risk of being “put to task” I’m gonna correct you on this one Blink, as far as Kitty is thinkin’ she doesn’t have just one missing brother, she has two. James was the first of her brothers to “disappear”. (Yes I know where he went, but she was barely over a year old when he left…to her I’m sure it’s like he disappeared)
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
While I agree James is important of course, I was speaking from a legal argument perspective, in terms of Kiara’s “constant enviornment” she saw everyday.
B
5.margarete miller says:
October 10, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Love this site -especially the NAME inasmuch as after reading everything I can about this case, I am back to square one. My first reaction: Terry looks scared silly. Her husband: bah!! Full of himself. Also noticed that Terry almost pushed his hand away when he put it around her shoulder. She does despise him. To me, Terri looks fabulous right now. This tells me she is getting her act together and also that she truly was miserable with Kaine.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, I think this begs the question: Why would TMH look so fabulous and put together with her beloved stepson still missing?
If one truly is miserable with one’s spouse, there is another option. It is called divorce.
PS to my previous post about sealing or pulling things from records – in Oregon, at least, if you are convicted of anything (even something different), my understanding is that you have to wait 10 years to apply for having records sealed. (This information does not deal with juvenile records.) Therefore, if something was there and then pulled and it has not been 10 years (unless there have been no convictions at all, ever), I would be suspicious about how that was done.
I hope this helps.
Does anyone else feel totally disjointed in their thinking on this case? Just seems that there is so much to ponder, I can’t think straight. Due to my inability to focus on one area, I decided to review some posts and scroll for bold. I went back to Blink’s comment regarding the Albertson’s that S referred to above.
Stars says:
October 4, 2010 at 9:20 am
August 29, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Yes.. Kiara. I am not convinced she was with Terri at the school, or at any time up until the gym. I am not saying it is not possible, but as an analyst, I could not put that on my “verified” list. B
Blink,
Do you know now if Kiara was at the SCIENCE FAIR?
Thank you…..
She was holding her in her arms at the Fred M when speaking to a witness, so that is all I can verify 100%. I do have some knowledge there is video of her with Kiara that day, but I heard it was Albertson’s.
B
————-
This led me to focus in on timeline for a little bit. According to TH’s timeline, she was at FM1 and has a receipt from 9:12 am. Then we have Andrea Leckey who says she saw TH at FM2 between 9:30 and 10. Now the very first timeline put out there in the news was one that said she had gone to one of the FM’s and then Albertson’s (or vice versa-was not clear which was first), then started her back roads tour at 10:10, gym at 11:39.
This Albertson’s has always thrown things off for me. There is no reason that I can think of for her to go to that particular store for shopping purposes. Many closer options. The only reason I can come up with for her to go to that particular store is to meet someone. But when I take into consideration B’s comment that there is possibly video of her there, it would seem that the person she was meeting would be on video too.
This just brought up more questions for me. Was there someone else besides Kiara on video with her? Was the person that took Ky calling her and leading her from place to place on a wild goose chase all morning? It would be tough to reach all 3 stores in the timeline from 9:12 @ first FM, between 9:30 and 10 at second FM (according to Leckey) to leaving Albertson’s at 10:10, but I suppose if you are just running from one to the other (and Leckey saw her closer to 9:30) it could maybe work. If there was this goose chase, what was the purpose of it? Maybe to buy time, but why if TH would have thought he was in school. Then of course we have to fit DD’s disappearance in this somewhere.
From early on in this case I have felt that TH had a hand in planning, but I have slowly begun to see the idea that she was somewhat blindsided by it. The main reason I can’t fully move into the “blindsided” camp is the big question of – Why all of the deception from TH if she didn’t plan it?
Sorry for all of the questions thrown out, just hoping that putting them in writing will help clear my mind, and I would love to hear others ideas on them. Sometimes I wish we could all sit in a room together and brainstorm this out loud.
Cbickel says:
October 10, 2010 at 9:00 pm
I hope you know I wasn’t giving you a hard time C- I find Ellie Mae’s way of talking quite sweet and Granny always reminded me of my own Grandma- tough as nails but a heart of gold- Spelling is not my strong point either so – I hear ya. LOL
IRT Terri’s visitation, I understand everyone’s feelings- but even if Terri goes to prison for something she would possibly still have the right to visitations- Correct? I mean she would be supervised, and she wouldn’t be able to run with Kitty right? IDK -Such a horrible situation.
Its always the children who suffer the most.
Will we ever now the truth of what happened to Kyron? God I hope so. Prayers for Kyron and his family.