Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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Wordweaver,
Really enjoyed your post and AGREE that we do need facts. This is driving me up a wall.
This could be completely unrelated, but the timing of these communications (emails) comes a couple of weeks post Blink and Lea’s big time article, which was mentioned on local media. Perhaps after months of sitting on these — all of a sudden we have Dateline, Today Show, Presser, etc., after quite a long while of hearing nothing aside from divorce and custody issues.
Going crazy here.
=================================
I am NOT discounting all that awfulness poor Desiree is going through. She’s been betrayed every which way from Sunday. But I would caution that we need to put everything through the filter of perception, orientation and circumstance and try to make our conclusions based on facts — of which we have very few right now.
As of 4:45 EST today, MCSO says that THEY still have AS-S in MCIJ. Idahogal, somebody’s records are wrong. It’s happened before with him. Oh, to be so popular that everybody wants to claim you….
***********************************
Anybody got MSM links stating that LE released the emails to DY, KH last Friday? That’s what I thought Today reporter said. But 2 local articles didn’t say that.
There is more to that conversation I promise you. It makes no sense. Terri and Desiree BOTH wanted Kyron to live with Desiree, but Kaine wouldn’t hear of it? WTH is that about? File for a custody modification and let the court decide- I am at a loss on that one.
B
_______________
Hate to say this, but it seems to me like she thought he had something on her, something she could not go up against. But if your baby was crying and wanting to come live with you, would you at least try? What could be so bad that she wouldnt even fight it in court? IDK alot about custody issues, thank GOD, but dont they even try meddiation first, and if no comprimise then court?
B-If you feel this is inapprop, plz dont post, I just dont understand what could be so bad that she wouldnt fight for him?
My heart is heavier than usual today. There is so much I don’t understand about this world in which we live. I have many opinions on TMH’s lifestyle, on Kaine’s allegations that he never thought Ky was in danger, etc, but for now, I think I’m just going to add my prayers that Kyron be found soon.
mosaic says:
November 15, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Hatred of a seven year old? Wow, that is profoundly sad on so many levels.
I know, my question is, who the hell was she comfortable enough to write something like that to?
I fear I already know.
B
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
I would just like to say that if the emails from TH expressing hatred of Kyron came for Dede, it would make me very suspicious of Dede’s motives/involvement in the disappearance of kyron. JMO
Blink one more thing, do You think these are new e-mails that LE just discovered, or do you think this is old evidence? It would make more sense to me if it were new/just discovered recently. Why hold out on it until now if its old evidence? If it is new evidence then that says to me, with the new searches, they are getting close,at least close enough for a arrest.
Spilling beans
well if you did
a mother got hurt
Okay, just got off the phne with Wash. Co. Sheriff. AS-S is not in Wash. Co. jail, or out on the streets. He is in federal custody and is now back in transit. The sheriff lady said community supervision means the inmate is in custody of and being supervised by that community. She does not know WHY he was showing up in Wash. Co. but assures me he is NOT is Wash. Co. at this time. Further she says inmates on federal holds get moved around a lot due to overcrowding, court appts., and she doesn’t know what else. So I don’t know if I feel better or not, lol. At least we know he is in someone’s custody and is still not scheduled for release until 2015.
ICE prisoners/USM holds do not get moved to county, although I know she told you that, she may not have viewed his full record. They do however, move for court dates, but everytime he has been moved, there was no pending court date.
They would also be moved for access for interview potentially. I addressed this some time ago. US Marshalls went ex parte to the presiding Federal judge in his criminal case, although he is represented. He appears to be released to MC Jail, his lawyer files petition for w/d afterward. This guy is cooperating in something, there is no other explanation.
B
BTW, I have stopped aplogizing for my typos, even though they drive me nuts! We all make them and I am not wasting posting space anymore saying I’m sorry. Ya’ll know that I can spell, it’s the fingers!
I’m calming down now. And I would like to see the emails before I believe the conclusions that have been drawn and served up to us. I’m a raw data person. I’ll massage it myself.
DY has concluded: “It’s very clear from Terri’s horrible words that she had a severe hatred towards Kyron,” Young said.
KH stated: “She’s a master of deception and misdirection,”
source: http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx
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Objection, your Honor; hearsay.
_______________
Let’s recall TH’s court filings in which he described her slurred speech, affected gait, passing out several nights a week after drinking. And more. And today’s statement from the same link I gave above:
“Her (Terri’s) relationships with the children in general were not acceptable,” he added.
********************
OK, now. I know when an argument is internally inconsistent. KH has said he didn’t realize it at the time. He saw that behavior, and failing to provide structure for Kitty during these drinking episodes. But he only later realized these were a sign of an alcohol problem? And only now decided that her relationships with the children were not acceptable???
Nope. His recall has been affected, to be generous here. And memory is a fluid thing (Houze will find expert witness to educate us about the current understanding of memory; he will be correct.)
That emotionally-altered recall makes him a shakey witness.
I am so sorry for Desirre, this morning’s interview was hard for her. All have been hard but it was different today, she was different today. I am sorry she has to deal with the pain, almost betrayal she now feels for Kaine. I still have a protective feeling towards Kaine. I live in a glass house. Desirre has every right to feel as she does now. She is Kyron’s mother. I think Kaine was just trying to fix things in his analytical way and keep his first child close because he does love him dearly. He had no idea how far TH was off of her rocker. His world is destroyed. He does not have TY to cry to. He is a man of grief, of sorrow, of hindsite blame. He is going to do what ever he can to not loose his daughter. I think he would flee to protect Kiara from TH at this point. Many have with far less reason to. I cringe when I hear angry words about Kaine.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Kaine-Horman-Do-I-hope-she-had-an-accomplice/UqWuD4ezC0e1_mFyo7wuaA.cspx
KOIN has KH’s presser from this morning up on it’s site now, but the video keeps skipping and cutting off halfway thru the 30 min or so he spoke with the press. (he spoke longer and answered more questions than I’ve ever heard from people in this case)
Both KATU and KGW have only small sound bites from his talk – but the their pages say they will have more video of KH up later today.
I hope so, Kaine spoke for quite a long time, gave a lot of info and a lot of insight into TMH.
He speaks a lot about how he has been/still is receiving little bits of info from different people that TMH told varying “stories” to (various lies, but that’s MOO), and how he is still trying to put it all together.
He sounds adamant that Kyron is still alive and the baby K witnessed something horrific June 4th.
“”We’re dealing with someone who is a master of deception, misdirection, and she’s bringing it forward in spades,” (KH speaking of TH)
Desiree this morning and then Kaine this afternoon – both were heartbreaking to watch.
Kaine in tears talking to the press today: 30 lbs lighter, 20 years older, and looking like a lost soul.
@ Evie…. Other half says Adobe may mess with the operating system on our lap top ‘puter so will wait to discuss with the technical expert… my pop. You’re very thoughtful, thank you.
11.Jesse says:
November 15, 2010 at 1:36 pm
You know, I have to admit that TMH is not acting like an innocent parent. What is keeping her together all this time when going through a missing stepchild, a divorce AND no contact with her baby daughter? Her resilience is almost inhuman. She seems so void of emotion and in that way capable of of harming Kyron without a conscience.
@Jesse
What is keeping her together? Apathy…side effect of depression. jmo
@Rollermonkey- You don’t chime in often, but when you do I really listen. I know you have 20+ years of experience in criminal justice, which I thank you for!, and I value your opinion. Do you think DDS was also involved in Ky’s abduction?
It has never sat well with me that DDS happened to be “working” so close to Skyline that day AND left her cell phone in her care AND disappeared at the same time that TH was pinging away on her cell phone and they both ended up without an alibi for the time frame. Toss in the likely possibility that DDS knew RS prior to June 4th, and I’ve even said perhaps she introduced TH and RS. So if it turns out she was involved I will not be surprised.
When Blink has said this crime was sexually motivated I always considered not just a child predator but also RS or DDS or some other person sexually involved or enamored with TH as a possibility. Well, which is it? Is it a sexually motivated crime because TH hurt someone that “loved” her OR was it revenge for a MFH that was cancelled OR was it just a crazy TH that snapped? Is it just simpler than we have been led to believe or concluded on our own?
Chances are we will not know until some charges are filed and arrests are made. I am hoping that this is coming soon, because I know how awful I feel and it is NOTHING compared to what Kyron’s Momma and family and friends are feeling. And the kids at Skyline, this is such a horrific thing for them to have to deal with and try to process. A thousand prayers and love for all affected.
@beejay- I love you to bits. Thanks for the autism info. Me thinks we’ll have to stay in touch somehow after this is over.
@Idahogal: Re: “Last seen with” and “Man chaperone”. I totally follow your reasoning and agree-if TMH heard from someone else there was male chaperone, than she was not the last one to see him. I personally think she made that up.
Today I saw Kyron in the Sunday redplum coupons, on the back cover. It made me sad but at the same hopeful because I see his face out there even here on the East Coast.
Hope I am not being redundant but re: Sparks v Sparks/pleading the fifth (contract murderer for hire is not mentioned specifically) as explained in another case:
One of the cases relied on by the Commission in affirming the dismissal was Sparks v. Sparks, 768 S.W.2d 563 (Mo.App. E.D.1989), in which a wife asserted the Fifth Amendment in responding to interrogatories and reasserted the privilege at a hearing on her request for temporary allowances. There the appellate court noted that the reason some form of judicial response is appropriate following the invocation of the privilege is “to eliminate any undue advantage which might flow from the ability to conceal pertinent evidence.” Id. at 567. The Sparks court also noted, however, that a court has discretion in fashioning an appropriate remedy, including prevention of the testimony of the party seeking relief who relied on the Fifth, “deferral” of the request for relief, “or other appropriate action, to prevent the disadvantage and unfairness inherent in compelling [the party defending the claim] to proceed without full disclosure ․” Id. It specifically refused to hold that the assertion of the Fifth mandated a dismissal of pleadings or denial of a claim. Id. There the husband had filed a motion, prior to the hearing, to strike wife’s pleadings because of her reliance on the Fifth. Id. at 564. http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mo-court-of-appeals/1215589.html
LE seems to now be playing media/DY against both TH and KH. We all sit here and ponder “HOW” could KH have left Kyron in that enviornment for up to a year while BOTH TH and DY requested that Kyron go live with his mother.
KH said “no way.” Thus, KH also has some explaining to do as far as I am concerned. At least, we know by DYs words today that, at the beginning and over the past year, TH attempted to ‘do the right thing by Kyron’ if indeed she was having serious issues and/or alleged hatred for the lad. It was KH who nixed that opportunity to do right by Kyron.
Remember the chat about the red mustang speeding around Sauvie Island that morning? Who had the red mustang that day? KH did. Have we confirmed that KH actually WAS at work all morning and during the alleged Sauvie mustang sighting timeframe? Have we confirmed that it was Terri’s, and NOT KHs cellphone that pinged on sauvie Island that morning?
Remember LE said there was a lot more to this story that they had learned? Stuff that would shock us? Perhaps a KH involvement instead of a TH involvement? With his control issues, perhaps it was a matter of “you can’t have my child … ever” coupled with opportunity to have Step Mom go down as the fall guy for the whole scenario and be rid of the both of them? Kyron certainly would have left the school with his dad too.
Skyline parent said people would not recognize KH as he just wasn’t involved with the school activities (Terri did all that). Perhaps KH was the unidentified male chaperone that others apparently saw Kyron with?
Perhaps, all this time, LE has been publically putting the word out about Terri so that KH would feel comfortable … perhaps comfortable enough to slip-up.
And, the alleged MFH … what motive would Terri have for that? Other than hatred for Kaine?? Terri’s attorney’s have mentionned that Dec 26th 911 call and their inability to get a transcript of it “due to the ongoing criminal investigation” — I wonder why? What did Kaine do that day to cause Terri to call 911? After that, Terri moved her own eldest son OUT of the enviornment and attempted repeatedly – along with Desiree – to get Kyron living with his mother instead … WHY!!??
That, I believe, is a critical question. I also believe that this recent revelation by LE to Desiree is indeed to prep her for the worst, but also to reveal that KH is not all he cracks himself up to be either.
“There are things in this case that will shock you” … that would shock me.
____________
40.beejay says:
November 15, 2010 at 12:15 pm
I’ve listened to Desiree’s Today show interview 3 times, and went to another site even (!) to see a transcription.
My biggest question: how/when did Desiree learn of the TH emails in which TH expressed what is said to be her intense hatred of Ky?
My tentative answer: sounded like the reporter indicated that on Friday LE showed Desiree emails Terri had sent to friends describing her marriage to Kaine and her feelings about Kyron.
Last Friday LE gave Desiree those emails? You are kidding me. LE?? Last Friday??
If that’s correct, some games are being played here. And as a law and order defender, I find this totally unacceptable to work the family in this way.
Having utilitzed Kaine previously. OK, with Kaine’s cooperation (at least on the Cook cellphone thing–maybe even KH started that one). But now we’re not only playing TH against KH, but KH against Desiree??? Not acceptable to me ethically. Unless Desiree is in on this; and that I have no way of knowing. And if LE is using this strategy, it tells me one of several things:
Has it been established that Kiara was actually seen at the SF with Kyron and Terri? Skyline mom has said Kiara was seen at the school with Terri but she did not mention the names of those who saw the three together.
44.panda says:
November 14, 2010 at 3:59 pm
“she then refused on self-incrimination grounds to answer respondent’s interrogatories concerning her relationship to a contract killer who attempted to kill the respondent.”
For clarification, if it was not caught already – That quote in panda’s post was from a precendent case, not THIS case. It was used as a case cite, and does not refer to the parties in this case. They will argue that THAT case is similar to THIS one, etc.
from Oregonian “Kaine Horman says he never thought Kyron was in danger around boy’s stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman”
compare that to the filed court paperwork (drunk respondend, on the couch, etc.)!
My take is that the emails were shown to Desiree to either prepare her for the worst or because LE was recently made apprised of them. Of all the players in this saga, best guess is they were sent to Dede, the same person who likely assisted Terri that fateful morning. I have always believed Terri and Dede did keep in contact after Terri’s 40th birthday, in contrast to what they claim.
A red mustang was possibly spotted on SI… they couldn’t take Dede’s vehicle as it had to be left at her place of work, so they went to Intel and picked up the ‘stang. Terri had enough sense not to want Kitty to be near during some part of that morning. (I believe the PTA lady commented that Kitty was with Terri and Ky during the SF)
The emails don’t surprise me in the least. Terri’s FB pictures with her posts under them always seemed to be slightly derogatory towards little Ky. When he was being a boy, super cute with his truck Easter basket on his head, the beauty of that innocent silliness was completely lost on her.
When asked if she still felt Ky was alive, Desiree met a mental crossroad, right there on national tv. Poor, poor lady. She attempted to go down that path but found she could not, not without proof that her baby, a very part of her, might no longer be alive. I don’t blame her one little tiny bit.
beejay – your candidate is extra creepy. I am cautious of what we say here, but my goodness, someone really needs to take a look at that guy – if not in Kyron’s case, just in general. He admits an interest in teen girls (among other things) in his MS blog (and that is certainly evidenced by the MANY photos), and seems to be just waiting for (and maybe trying to set up) a chance to “act inappropriately”. Says all his friends are teenaged girls because that is who he relates to. Wow, scary – hope he is on someone’s radar.
IMO and paraphrasing from his blog.
Who is the “we” that Kaine so commonly refers to when he speaks?
Him and Kiara????
Does the fact that DY got to talk to the Today Show to air her latest thoughts vs. KH holding a one man pc by the Wall of Hope only seem a bit odd to me?
Off topic, but still important. What happened to ‘futureman’? I’m thinking we’re going to be needing someone of his comic relief in the coming days.
44.Sammy says:
November 15, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Both Desiree and Kaine were briefed by LE on Friday about TMH’s hateful emails.
Was able to watch KH’s solo presser today … the poor man looks like a shell of the man we saw 5 months ago.
KGW ran KH’s conference live, hope they post the video later today.
————-
What I’m getting from the reports is that Desiree was briefed on the emails and their contents by LE last Friday. Not the both of them. I’ll quote Desiree’s statement from the article (Kaine was already aware of them), but held info from her. This has the added effect of LE now playing Desiree against both Kaine and Terri (vice just Terri). Question is: “Why does LE want to do that” fishing another “target” now perhaps??
(The following exerpt posted under the fairdealings provisions of the copyright act …:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/40192620/ns/today-today_people
“United front?
Young’s interview on TODAY Monday was her first appearance on the show without her ex-husband. She is angry that Kaine apparently knew about the messages obtained by police, but never told her about them.”
Seems to me that these emails were not “news” to Kaine on Friday. Yet, he never mentions them – not even in his divorce or RO filings.
beejay says:
November 15, 2010 at 10:22 am
There are two things I’d like to know as to the suspect:
1) Is there any known evidence that RS and/or his associates perpetrated a crime against Ky?
(Blink has never said if her continued that we look at them is based on evidence she’s privy to or is her own opinion. It would help a lot to know which. We wouldn’t need to be told what that evidence is, just if she is privy to it.)
2) Whether or not Elsy’s missing kids are the correct ages/gender to be Rudy’s children. (We could go from there, without feeling we’re wasting our time).
~~~
I’m so far behind in my reading … lots happening last 24 hours.
I’ve dismissed RS as being directly involved because if he were, this case would be further along. Still suspicious of him, but not in the disappearance of Ky.
I don’t know if Elsy and children belong to RS, but I strongly believe they are connected to him. Suspicious of their disappearance for other reasons, just not related directly to Ky.
I am still suspicious of the Associates and who saw what between TH and RS. Explains the stranger danger scenario and the connection to TH’s activities. If suspect is a LS and has working knowledge of SI, he would know how to navigate the area and not been seen. Would also know how to disappear himself.
Problem with this theory, there’s been no leaking of searches of area nurseries where RS and Associates would have access. Also, no media investigations into RS and Associates or Elsie and children. Really, really bizarre.
I know this is of no help .. clear as mud!
Didn’t the press say emails were to an “extended family member?”. Mom, dad, son….that’s all, isn’t it?
A weak support system. Gym members do not a support system of an older mom with diverse responsibilities, challenging illness (if Pps true) and detached dad make. I feel, sorry, Kyron had special needs unrecognized by all to the extent he required, additionally stressing this weak family. But, murder? To her credit she got James out and tried to get Kyron out. I remain puzzled. Still 30,000 myself but wondering why no one went to bat for Kyron — heck if I were in the social system (teacher, coach, friend), I’d have formed a DY/TH coalition and gotten the ladies to do an end-run around Kaine. Only reason TH didn’t do so IMO was she feared an ugly divorce w/KH — no doubt in their times of trouble, he’d threatened her with loss of Kitty ….. ubiquitous SAHM issue–no money vs real money. I would say if he’d yelled at her enough he’d take Kitty in a divorce, might have precipitated MFH in unstable woman.
lyla says:
November 15, 2010 at 12:41 pm
I cannot understand why LE would release incriminating investigative information to Kaine/Desiree. Can someone clue me in? Trying to poison a potential jury pool? TIA
~~~
very good point! I too am having difficulty understanding why LE is using the parents and now the MOM to influence public opinion. If TH is ever charged, LE has severely tainted the jury pool; and if she is never charged, they have left themselves wide open for lawsuits by the dozen. Plus, I agree that it is just plain cruel to use the parents’ raw emotions the way they are being used.
Why not just come out and ask for the public’s help in certain areas where LE needs answers? The public is chomping at the bit to help in any way they can, if they were only asked. Someone, somewhere, knows something.
I also question why LE and DA are allowing KH and his attorney to use criminal evidence as evidence in a divorce proceeding.
Either this case is really mucked up or things are not as they seem.
Jesse says:
November 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm
So, is the popular opinion that TMH asked DeDe Spicher to watch over Kiara that day so that she could get rid of Kyron?
~~~
No
I too, was wondering whether these newly revealed e-mails had been held by LE all along (and what the rationale might be for sharing them with DY at this time) . . . I asked my computer expert son who said that not all e-mail is readily available/accessible on home computers or devices. There are so many options for online e-mail accounts these days, it may have taken LE this long to discover any/all TH’s e-mail account(s). (Then the providers would be subpoenaed for records, though that component would probably be quickly done in a case like this.)
This appears to be the link to the entire Kaine Horman press conference today:
http://www.kptv.com/news/25797873/detail.html
Did the person(s) she wrote the e-mails to take Kyron to make it look as if TH was the culprit? If this person had a vendetta against TH, then (s)he could have set TH up. TH would then know how and why it went down, but she doesn’t want to implicate herself and that is why she has lawyered up and is remaining silent. She may not know where Kyron was taken, but she does have other details.
“Kaine Horman told reporters today that he never thought that his son Kyron was in danger around his estranged wife in the months before he disappeared.”
and how bizarre is this statment made by Kaine at his press conference today.. complete contradiction to what he said in the divorce filing.. maybe it’s me, am I nuts??
Kaine in his presser today:
What kind of relationship did Terri have with Kyron?
I think that it was relationship that was similar to the relationships she had with her other children. I think that there was a lot of pressure put on, I think there was a lot of situations created that were created by her, problems that were created by her and she was ultimately the person claiming the credit for solving those particular issues. Issues that at the time didn’t really know where they were coming from, and again now looking back things coming into focus, pieces of information being provided, it’s, it’s very evident that, you know, the relationship between them was strained, and the relationship was strained to the point where, you know, I saw it straight away at least a few months out and her and I were getting into arguments all the time about her, her relationships just with the children in general and how I wasn’t finding it acceptable…so her and I had many arguments. I’ve talked about the ups and downs of our relationship and that’s where we had many of our arguments…was there are certain ways to deal with the children and in a lot of cases she wasn’t doing it.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I found these statements by Kaine to be rather interesting -it does appear to be some sort of Munchhausen…essentially that she creates the problem, then she is the hero… The other thing that I find interesting is that he says there are certain (correct, in his opinion) ways of rearing the kids, and, “she wasn’t doing it.” -in other words, she did not do what HE wanted her to do. Do others interpret that like me? TIA.
Interesting that KH is driving around her car. That’s a bit odd… I mean, just that he has possession of it…it was a gift to her from him. Wonder how he managed to retain -probably in his name?
Why drive it?
KH: “I want people to see em both…. just in case they saw it around the week or two before, the week or two following… hopefully it’ll jog someone’s memory -did they see it in that particular time frame, did they see it the weeks leading up to it, if they did and it was in a weird place where was it…anything we can do to help people think back….”
Desiree’s interview this morning broke my heart. She was so unaware of what Kyron was going thru in his home. She would have moved mountains to get full custody of Kyron had she known. So many people on here speak about how they love their step children as their own and so on but there are many out there that truly don’t like their step children. I had what I refer to now as a “step monster”. My dad married her when I was 7 and I lived with my mother. I hated visiting him as she was clearly jealous of my relationship with my dad and she felt “threatened” by my mother.
I was 11 when my mother died and had to go live with my dad and she made my life a living ****. She also hid it very well from my dad. She would yell at me, say the meanest things to me and then tell me to “go wipe up your tears before your father gets home from work”. She would tell me that I thought I was better than everyone else and that I was below them, she would make dinner for her and her kids and not let me in the kitchen, she would tell me to “stop crying and feeling sorry for myself” only months after my mom died, I was 11 for crying out loud!
I could go on and on but the point I am trying to make is that there are step parents out there that hate their step children, they feel threatened by them, feel that they get too much attention from the biological parent. If TH felt that way, sure she could have done something or gave him to someone, maybe she thought that it would bring her and KH together. KH may not have known about her true feelings toward Kyron or maybe he minimized it because it was easier at the time. I just wish that he did give Desiree the sweet little boy before it got to this point.
This is a very interesting press conference, IMO.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108250924.html?tab=video
FWIW…I once had a marriage counselor tell me and my now ex wife (yep..didn’t help) that a woman grieves some months prior to the end of a marriage as she knows it’s soon over…the man tends to be emotionally detached and ‘surprised’ when he discovers things are not going so well. So…I can see why KH may have said some of the things he said early in this ordeal. Sadly, his denial may have indirectly contributed to this awful end….
I am certain that Kyron has forgiven them all from his place with our Lord.
(Psalm 27:10)
Y’all please read this comment. Non-judgemental and spot on, imo.
As I say frequently, in many cases I cover, can we please take a moment to reflect on what we have learned to apply to our own frailties to improve they way we love, parent, and live? I feel Kyron deserves that action from us in his honor.
B
My opinion about who these emails went to: We all compartmentalize our friends, and would not say certain things to certain friends… I think she chose her recipient/target audience carefully -she would have said this to a close friend, not an acquaintance from the gym or surely not within the Skyline Elementary community, someone with no kids and no family of their own, someone who will be most likely to empathize and even chime in, feigning support…someone like…someone like…well, could be someone who likes organic plants, for example. The same person she tried to get to scope out a suspected girlfriend of KH.
ah geeze, its hard to hover at 30—- feet after watching Desiree today. In my mind, she could have known about those e-mails a while ago, perhaps LE didnt want her to tell the media directly what was in them. But we can all tell she is seething inside, I have wondered how long it would be before she showed her true emotions regarding anger and frustration. I’m not so sure that she wouldnt, at this point, have a press conference unbeknown to LE. jmo, of course. With regard to Kaine’s obvious attempt in both of his relationships, to keep the children he had fathered, it could be he just really loves his children alot. Or, on the other hand, it could have just been foolish pride. who did th trust?? who has unaccounted for time? the other child hating redhead. God bless Desiree, and give her strength.
I personally think “as I had commented before” LE is giving all the key players enough slack rope & in the end the guilty party or parties will “hang” themselves~~! I feel as though Kaine falls under that famous saying “To be a successful & good liar, you have to have a good memory”… only reason Terri doesnt need a good memory is she has remained ~silent~! As for Desiree, I think she has been drawn back into a life through the disappearance of poor lil Kyron, she had left Kaine & divorced him for~ I have a gut feeling that all the control issues that have been pointed at Kaine are all so true… We will see… One does wonder where all the fundraising money is & why it hasnt been accounted for?….?
Sorry if my opinion doesnt meet with everyone’s opinion but I do have the right to my own gut feelings & thoughts~ Through the yrs . my intuition hasnt been off the mark too many times.
Okay…the news reporter just said TH sent the emails to AN EXTENDED family member. Now I will try to find a link for what I know I heard.
Yay, found it:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Exclusive–Kyron-Hormans-Mom-Talks-About-Disturbing-Emails–108170584.html
Sources told KGW that the emails were sent from Terri to an extended member of the family in the weeks just before Kyron’s disappearance.
puzzled says:
November 15, 2010 at 3:31 pm
LE knows who was on the receiving end of these latest emails.
*****************************
http://www.kgw.com/news/Exclusive–Kyron-Hormans-Mom-Talks-About-Disturbing-Emails–108170584.html
Sources told KGW that the emails were sent from Terri to an extended member of the family in the weeks just before Kyron’s disappearance.
____________________________
Definition of extended family:
>>A family unit which consists of relatives by blood and by marriage as well as two parents and their children.<>extended family – a family consisting of the nuclear family and their blood relatives<<
______________________________
Who was Terri venting to in the weeks before Kyron disappeared. Who did she feel comfortable enough with (by blood or marriage) to confide something as momentous as hating her stepson?
From what KGW said that sources told them-this person who received the emails was not a friend or associate-but an extended family member. That person has got to feel like crap right now.
Sadly, people do not often take things as seriously as they should This person may have just thought TH was ranting as usual—-or this person may have told Kaine that he/she was worried and Kaine also kept that to himself.
It was just reported on the evening news that the emails were sent to an “extended family member” KGW 6:20 pm
Prayers for Kyron
Grace said:
“Does anyone still believe one can look at pictures of a child and think all is well in a home? Forgive my bluntness, but when I watched Desiree on the Today show this morning I thought my blood was going to boil. I cannot bear to think of what Kyron must have gone through during his last days. It sickens me”
I am one of the ones that looked at the pictures of the kids and state that I did not believe they had been sexually abused, I didn’t say things were ok in the home. I’m not looking at their smiles, I’m looking at their eyes.
That aside, I, like everyone here, just want this boy home and those responsible be held accountable. All of those responsible!
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
Regarding the mfh plot–I remember early on in the investigation it was mentioned quite a few times that many people in the Skyline community didn’t realize Kyron was not TH’s biological son; could have been the same for RS. Would explain–if Kyron was taken because TH backed out of mfh deal–why he was taken and not Kiara.
I’m feeling that she wrote those hateful emails to DeDe and LE showed them to DY and KH before they become public as a courtesy, if you will.
How does the release of evidence work, anyways? Can LE show something to Kaine, but not Desiree? How is it decided what is shared with only Kaine and Desiree and not the public?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html
I just watched the interviews with Kaine (link above), and Desiree (link below).
http://www.nbc.com/news-sports/today-show/mom-stepmom-had-severe-hatred-for-kyron/
____________________________
I couldn’t get through either of them without crying. Watching Desiree was painful, and I truly felt her desperation. Watching Kaine break down today, speaking about Kiara and how she used to sit and read with Kyron, and now he does that with her–was heartrending…
puzzled says:
November 15, 2010 at 1:29 pm
“I personally have learned of information lately that has disappointed me in Kaine’s choices in his behavior. I just can’t stand by and support the choices he is making.”
~~~
“this “information” is the other shoe dropping I have referred to before. While I do not believe KH had anything to do with his son’s disappearance, I firmly believe he was aware of the environment that made it possible for Ky to be taken. Just saying …”
I can’t be completely sure Kaine was aware of the environment. If Kaine is a control-freak as many have diagnosed, then there is nothing easier than keeping a control-freak calm by making them believe they have everything under control. Terri appears to be a master at deception and pathological liar. She was darn good at keeping up appearances.
Poor little Kyron may have grown up under constant threats from and the resulting terror of Terri Hormon. This could be the reason he was so shy. He spent his life walking on eggshells or faced ???? Having to be perfect every day at school is just one example. I can see why he would be a chatterbox at school and have some fun, he could actually breath there. It would make sense that he never told Dad or Momma because of her threats and abuse and mind f-ing. I really think what Terri did to him and how she treated him are the things LE wishes they did not know. I think showing Desiree the emails were to prepare her for what she is going to have to hear about at the trial.
None of the people involved or known appear to be the helper, imo, if there was a helper. If TH hated Kyron, it’s not very likely that she planned a kidnapping for money. After all, she would not actually do too badly in a divorce and it would definitely be better than prison. If she planned to kill Kyron because she hated him and wanted to hurt Kaine, there are thousands of other ways for someone as crafty and sneaky as she is which would not entail so much drama. Sorry to have to write these things, but she could have “accidentally” run over him, he could have eaten all of Daddy’s pills from the medicine cabinet, fell down the basement steps, etc.
I’m back to contemplating my initial reaction after the first 48 hours. That this poor little boy, did some kid thing, like forget his lunch, the signed paper for the teacher or peed his pants. He got a Damn it, Kyron, go out that door and I’ll pull the truck around so not everyone sees what a f’in baby you are. She beat him in the truck, went home, finished silencing him, bagged him up, drove around trying to figure out what to do and what to buy and eventually dropped her problem and him somewhere in the water at SI or ??? I know this sounds sick, because it is, but it eliminates all those “others.” At one time I believed RS was a key player, but I can’t believe he was directly involved and got full immunity either. I don’t think there were killers for hire stalking her or lovers waiting in the shadows to aid in the killing of a child. Terri Hormon could do all of this, all by herself.
I think LE believes she murdered him. I think they and the DA have used the GJ to find out everything they possibly could. I think they had hoped to find Kyron’s body. I do understand the importance of evidence in bringing charges against TH. I’m sure the DA wants the list to be verrrrrry long, so if there’s a plea, she will still do some hard time.