Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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7.jan says:
December 12, 2010 at 8:41 pm
@ Kimberly says:
December 12, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Kimberly,
Long shot, but thinking:
Could this SANCHEZ, UBALDO
34 Astoria, OR
Available Sanchez, Bautista Ubaldo
maybe have a friend named Jake (Jacabo?)
The Mom’s on this case may be the one’s who’re going to help figure it out
*******************************************************
Jan, I don’t know, but I hope what I gave you
helps with what your hoping to figure out.
If you get something vetted, let us know.
*******************************************
16.evie says:
December 12, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Evie, I’m a little confused? the information I was referring to was for the Ubaldo Sanchez I listed and wasn’t referring to anyone on the list with that particular post.
However; once I did see the list, I seen the last name of Bautista and started sleuthing, I’m not sure if this is the name you are referring to? I’m interested in the facebook info you are referring to, is it from Bautista? Sanchez? who is the school bus driver?
29.riverpearl says:
December 13, 2010 at 12:47 am
**************************************
The name came up as shown, I typed in Ubaldo Sanchez
and seen the relationship to the “Bautista” name I had seen
from the SF list. I had seen the Bautista name before the list when
I have been sleuthing, but can’t remember where!
Here’s my post from ages ago. It seems we are coming back to things we have already done. A poster at SM listed all the names at the PO Box used by RS. I checked to see who they really were and whether they all belonged to Rudy. In a more recent post, I suggested the PO Box might belong to a service that collects and sorts mail for people without an office and sometimes provides a phone answering service. Of course, it is possible they all know each other and pass around the PO Box number, but everyone who is supposed to get mail at a box is supposed to listed with that post office and I think they frown on people avoided paying for their own box if someone is just passing around the number. I originally thought about money laundering, but it seems rather foolish to put all your connections in one easy place to find like this.
LE has probably checked that out by now. Sorry I don’t have the date of my original post but I think it was toward the end of August.
—————–
previous post from MBS:
I tried to follow something on SM about this and I have trouble with all those overlapping boxes – I lose things. So I copied some of it. I’m not sure where the information came from to get to SM, but I looked up every business name that was supposedly using the same PO Box and that is not the case. I can’t ask anyone on SM and I don’t know if that topic went any further. MY NOTES are after each name in the list with a # at each end. I think you can tell they are not part of the SM quote. I couldn’t figure out a better way to do it.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8379.760
Scandi with reply from Blonde – August 19th
I’m wondering how we first got the name Rudy Sanchez? I can’t remember the link where we learned about the school landscape project and her meeting him there. Maybe that is where his name came out. If it stated the name of the LS firm and these 2 guys worked for him {since neither of their names were Rudy} – well I am confused about that and need to figure it out. xox
I got it from here – these are all listed at the same PO BOX as Rodolfo/Rudy Sanchez/Estada (sp.) the landscaper.
347 PO BOX CANBY, OR 97013
RUDY SANCHEZ LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE Canby, OR
Clackamas, OR
SANCHEZ, RODOLFO
(CONTACT)
ESTRADA’S
R S LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
ESTRADA’S
Canby, OR
Oregon city, OR
ESTRADA, JAIME S
(CONTACT)
GRAMA’S CARPET AND UPHOLSTERY CARE LLC # began 6/27/2005 and the dissolution date is 9/29/2005. The registered agent was Christopher Boyajian who was in Iraq in 2004 and before (don’t have timeline). Not sure how he got connected to this list. He is listed as from Molalla and also has an Oregon City address, I believe. http://hi5.com/friend/photos/displayPhotoUser.do?photoId=51885935&ownerId=1642419&albumId=8006742 #
RUDY SANCHEZ LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
INNOVATIONS BY GLORIA JEAN # Franchise company for coffee started in Australia – maybe someone sent for information? #
MARTIN INSPECTION SERVICE #? to many “Martin’s” to tell, not PO Box though #
ABSOLUTE SPARKLE BY ANASTACIA #SW Bertha BV address for beauty and barber shops #
EQUINE BODYWORKS # no PO Box – has street address (farm) #
STILLER CONSTRUCTION # different PO Box – 2001-2003 lapsed license #
R S LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
HAHN BUILDING DESIGN LLC # address in PDX and Oregon City, not Canby #
R S LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
Canby, OR
Portland, OR
SANCHEZ, RODOLFO
(CONTACT)
RUDY SANCHEZ LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
ESTRADA’S
ESTRADA’S
Canby, OR
Oregon city, OR
ESTRADA, JAIME S
(REGISTRANT)
ESTRADA, JAIME S
(AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE)
IRISQUILTS # company that sells quilts East Coast and prob online? #
RUDY SANCHEZ LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
Canby, OR
Clackamas, OR
SANCHEZ, RODOLFO
(REGISTRANT)
SANCHEZ, RODOLFO
(AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE)
ESTRADA’S
R S LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
R S LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE Canby, OR
Milwaukie, OR
SANCHEZ, RODOLFO
(REGISTRANT)
SANCHEZ, RODOLFO
(AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE)
ESTRADA’S
RUDY SANCHEZ LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE
—————————–
37.justice4kyron says:
December 13, 2010 at 4:41 am
E-Rose and Kimberly-
Have you found a connection to Ubaldo from either the Amaya-Sanchez, Flores-Sanchez or Sanchez-Flores families?
I think ***Mieja-Amaya***Amaya-Sanchez***Flores-Sanchez*** are family. I also found Anselmo Flores-Sanchez in K-Falls, age 35. I think Rudy, Anselmo, Jamie, and Roberto are cousins.
Roberto Sr. and Maria G. multiple addy’s connect to Ubaldo. Is Roberto Ubaldo’s brother or Ubaldo? (alias?)
Also found another alias for Rudy.
PS I know there was a previous connection to this country that was discounted, but I think Elsy IS from Honduras.
************************************************************
I can’t say that I have , but, I also can’t say I haven’t. LOL if that
makes any sense.
What I mean by that, is I have found that there are several continual names (first names) that appear with a ton of different and variational of different last names of the hispanic origin that we have all been looking at.
What I feel makes it difficult and a perfect example is the Oregon Department of Corrections Offender search, shows an offender with either one or two alias’ or even numerous. Some are similar to the REAL name of the individual and some are generic common alias’ used by many. Even Caucasian individuals try to get away with using hispanic names, (blew my mind) !
So, with all of the alias’ the only thing I have found very convincing to me is that , there appears to be a group (certain group)
with the same first names, being used and then a host of generic last names, with a spin or twist or slightly added to, just enough to make a person or people question their identity and not be able to validate any of them for certain. (I’m not saying LE can’t) just the general public for the most part.
I have no firm knowledge other than what has been vetted here or by LE
of any TRUE connections to anyone at this point. For all I know the LS Real Name could be John Doe!!! lol
@puzzled says:
December 12, 2010 at 8:53 pm
lyla says:
December 12, 2010 at 1:55 pm
don’t want to send anyone on a wild goose chase after wrong information … I haven’t seen this posting since Sat AM, so am guessing it was false.
———————————–
It was posted on GLP December 11 regarding a blue box found floating near SI and firefighters responding.
BWT u and me anything posted on GLP is BS and a waste of time. jmo
@justice23 says:
December 13, 2010 at 1:09 am
“BP was actually mentioned in this post but I don’t really get what he’s saying.”
justice23, I SO appreciate you monitoring that thread; it’s just too much for me to keep up with, but for some reason I had tuned in over the weekend and followed it from the “three-way” accusation (for those who didn’t read, DDS’ cousin is saying that DDS, TH & KH had a sexual relationship for a while).
However, in that post + context, I believe BP = British Petroleum and that sentence is about climate change conspiracy.
————-
@justice23 says:
December 13, 2010 at 1:26 am
“Nail techs are a dime a dozen in Beaverton, but Estilo Salon in that area was registered to the same mailbox as The Landscaper.”
beejay … where are you??? Can you check this out?? Blink?”
I can confirm that for you. Estilo Salon was registered under the RS PO box. The shop location is Oregon City though, not Beaverton etc.
The attendance list sent out to Skyline parents by LE contained instructions on what responses should include.
One of those items was “any individual” including a “minor child” who is or is not on the list and was or was not there.
Since this case offers a trillion potential resolutions, I’ll ask this: Is LE looking at an older child being involved in Kyron’s abduction? Is LE thinking that accomplices were perhaps not adults?
How easy is it to have a child pop up someplace in the corner and say “Hey, Kyron, over here! Look at this project!” Kyron like a lot of his classmates would head for another student when beckoned.
A student/child would not seem threatening.
The student/child would not know that a kidnapping was the goal. That student/child could have just been a decoy — a kid who was called in sick that day? The accomplice has his/her child excused for the day already, but how would Kyron know that?
DeDe’s friend’s name is Jaimee MacKinnon. She was on the Early Show and is actively defending DD on facebook. I have seen her confirm more than once that Tom from glp is her cousin and his information is legit. During that time he was defending her so I’m not sure how they’re going to feel about this latest twist.
puzzled says:
December 13, 2010 at 10:52 am
justice23 says:
December 13, 2010 at 1:26 am
“Nail techs are a dime a dozen in Beaverton, but Estilo Salon in that area was registered to the same mailbox as The Landscaper.”
~~~
Seriously??? a nail tech at this Salon and mailbox address could be the “wife” of RS … not feeling Elsie as wife … also, could be how TH and RS met.
——————————
I don’t know puzzled … I copied that quote last night from over at GLP where Tom Jones had quite the posts in recent days it seems and people were kind of commenting on his latest admissions/comments and then someone posted this alleged “finding” not long after. No idea if it’s actual or not, but I kinda flipped out as soon as I saw it and thought it was at least worth posting here. Maybe beejay and some of the other Blinkers that have more time than I could maybe make heads or tails of it through more research, which is why I posted it. The things TJ has been saying lately (Tom Jones … DDS’s alleged cousin and previously went by the name of jonesr over on GLP) really do seem to pass the smell test but really no idea if he truly knows the things he has recently been told by his ex-wife. Some of the bloggers on the FB page and a few from GLP themselves I guess contacted LE about his recent postings because they were afraid TJ wouldn’t himself so if they did, LE at least has it all now. They were encouraging TJ to go to LE with the information he just recently received, and he said he finally did call them, but got a machine so he left a message w/name, etc. But people were telling him to actually GO to MCSO directly because he would probably be taken more seriously that way.
If this is all true about the nail tech in Beaverton, etc LE may in fact have that final loose end they can’t seem to tie up any other way as it allegedly involves a nail technician in Beaverton (not AL after all, but a different nail technician TJ’s ex-wife had gone or goes to that said she knew DDS and that 2 yrs before all this, DDS had been spewing info about TMH, their relationship, and various other details that LE may or may not already have). The things he was saying his ex-wife had told him about the nail tech, DDS, TMH and even KH did seem to finally help some of the craziness make a little more sense. Read the links/posts I mentioned a few pages back … even BP was mentioned in one of his comments, which seemed a little cryptic to me but all the people we have questioned over the many mths researching this case did seem to have some kind of a connection according to the impression I was getting when reading through his details. Very interesting stuff … I only hope this might truly be the final evidence and/or connection LE has been looking for. I just want Kyron found! Some of it was in fact shocking as well … just like LE said it would be. Suspicion over at GLP had been that DDS and TMH were in fact “involved” (with each other) which does seem to help questionable pieces make more sense now. Don’t know for sure though … but FWIW, I want every stone left unturned.
clarification to my last comment in my previous post … can’t type today, ugh! I want every stone overturned, not left unturned, duh {:)
“but FWIW, I want every stone left unturned.”
I just have a bad feeling today that I can’t shake. Lots of terrible thoughts going through my mind. Hoping Kyron is found very, very soon. This has gone on long enough. Love to Ky.
Here’s what I find curious about the Canby PO boxes … the actual business address for the POB holders is somewhere other than Canby … as in Beaverton, Woodburn, Oregon City … all close and enroute to Canby, but these cities/townships all have their own post offices. Why Canby post office in particular?
@Kimberly says:
December 13, 2010 at 12:20 pm
“However; once I did see the list, I seen the last name of Bautista and started sleuthing, I’m not sure if this is the name you are referring to? I’m interested in the facebook info you are referring to, is it from Bautista? Sanchez? who is the school bus driver?”
Yes, got it now, sorry about my confusion. The Bautista from the list is who I am referring to, with the FB comment. The google name + oregon search will give you his myspace and you’ll easily see which FB page is his (photo).
One thing that got me hyper when I first looked him up is his myspace nickname: weightlifter610
In his FB there are several references to driving a school bus (for excursions?) and a photo of a First Student bus.
I’m not clear on what he was doing at Skyline on June 4; he lives in Gresham (far, other side of town).
Justice23 What kind of stuff is being said? I can’t get into that site here at work. Thanks
Estillo salon, there are 2 different addys I’m getting, both in Oregon city, one listed on 7th and one listed on Washington st. Both say the registered owner is Estee. Godinez! The address on 7th also lists it as a piano shop, but advertises it in spanish! Info from veromi
I’ve been reading the local PDX media about all the heavy rains the past few days.
Today on KGW … reports that part of NW Newberry Rd (between Highway 30 and NW Skyline Rd) was closed due to a mudslide onto the road.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Mudslide-blocks-NW-Portland-road-after-heavy-rain-111788394.html
Back in June (15-16th i think), MCSO had put out a request for any pix or video footage people may have had of a list of 15 roadways around Skyline school on June 3rd and 4th.
The roadways listed were:
“Video footage: The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office is seeking video of traffic on 15 Portland roads taken June 3 and June 4, the day Kyron Horman disappeared. Call the search tip line and leave your contact information and the location or street address where you took the footage. The streets: Northwest Cornelius Pass Road, Northwest Germantown Road, Northwest Logie Trail Road, Northwest Rocky Point Road, Northwest Skyline Road, Northwest 185th Avenue, Northwest West Union Road, Northwest Springville Road, Bethany Boulevard, Northwest Newberry Road, Northwest McNamee Road, U.S. 30 between Northwest Rocky Point Road to Northwest Germantown Road, Northwest Kaiser Road, Northwest Thompson Road, Northwest Laidlaw Road.”
No new earth shaking theories here with this info.
But … NW Newberry Rd between Highway 30 and NW Skyline Rd where this particular slide of debris down to the roadway occurred – is smack dab in the middle of the area’s LE has been searching.
I’m sure the ground all around that hilly area of Portland is shifting a bit, and the rain and run-off may just help to uncover something back in the brush along any one of those roads that’s been hidden since June.
Those roadways that LE was searching in back in June must look a lot different these days.
Maybe this rain/mudslides might just help LE in finding some evidence they’ve been searching those particular area’s for. (not just that one particular mudslide in the article – but probably most of those areas around there that they’ve been searching, now having excess rain pushing things around and possibly exposing them)
I guess just some wishful thinking that maybe all this rain might help find some evidence by uncovering/dislodging things.
Perhaps something like a smashed pay-as-you-go bat phone that has been disabled and then tossed off the side of one of those roads back into the thick brush so the culprit could get anything incriminating out of their possession.
If disabled, it would have long stopped pinging, but there could be some interesting info about who was calling/texting who in those crucial days on a bat phone like that.
I always had a feeling that LE/SAR were searching for a discarded bat-phone or two during the many searches along these roads and also during their Sauvie Island searches when they stated they were looking for ITEMS.
Here’s what I find curious about the Canby PO boxes … the actual business address for the POB holders is somewhere other than Canby … as in Beaverton, Woodburn, Oregon City … all close and enroute to Canby, but these cities/townships all have their own post offices. Why Canby post office in particular?
———————————————————————-
Can’t help ya with this one puzzled. Regarding how RS, RS & Associates, Ubaldo, Elsie, AS-S might possibly fit into any/all this, I have no clue. I have been “puzzled” (LOL) on all these people somehow fitting together ever since we started looking into them. Still don’t see the connection, but I don’t have the time to research and delve into it either like beejay and many of the others tracking them. Wish I knew … but maybe something important, who knows.
ESTRADA, HECTOR M
Available(2) Available BEAVERTON, OR
HILLSBORO, OR
PORTLAND, OR
WOODBURN, OR HECTOR ESTRADA CONSTRUCTION LLC General Contractors-Single-Family Houses
HECTOR ESTRADA CONSTRUCTION, LLC
************************************************
ESTRADA, ROBERT GARZA
Associated names:
ESTER, ROBERT G
Available(3) Available AURORA, OR
CANBY, OR
MOLALLA, OR
SALEM, OR
WOODBURN, OR HAIR EXPRESS Manicure and Pedicure Salons
HAIR EXPRESS
HAIR EXPRESS
RGE SERVICES
RGE SERVICES
*****************************************
15. SANCHEZ, ESTRADA ELIZABETH
Associated names:
ESTRADA, JAIME S
SANCHEZ, JAIME
Available(1) Available CANBY, OR
OREGON CITY, OR ESTRADA’S
ESTRADA
******************************************
. ESTRADA, SANTIAGO HERRERA
Associated names:
ESTRADA, HERRERA S
ESTRADAM, SANTIAGO
HERRERA, SANTIAGO E
Available(4) Available ALOHA, OR
BEAVERTON, OR
CANBY, OR
CORNELIUS, OR
FOREST GROVE, OR
HILLSBORO, OR NORTHWEST FOODS LLC Supermarkets and Grocery Stores with Substantial General Merchandise
NORTHWEST FOODS, LLC
NORTHWEST FOODS, LLC
OREGON CONSULTING, INC
OREGON CONSULTING, INC
OREGON CONSULTING, INC
(there is that Santiago name, just don’t know if it’s relative to
the SF list under Bautista)
***********************************
ESTRADA, JAIMES
Available OREGON CITY, OR CLEAN FACTOR Lighting Maintenance Services
*************************************
37. ESTRADA, ROBERT G
Available(1) Available WOODBURN, OR HAIR EXPRESS
HAIR EXPRESS
HAIR EXPRESS
HAIR EXPRESS
HAIR EXPRESS
and etc, from veromi
10. SANCHEZBADILLO, ANDRES B
Associated names:
BADILLO, ANDRES S
SANCHEZ, ANDREZ
SANCHEZ, BADILLO ANDRES
SANCHEZ, ANDRES B
SANCHEZ-BADILLO, ANDRES
Available(6) Available ALOHA, OR
BEAVERTON, OR
PORTLAND, OR
TIGARD, OR SANCHEZ LANDSCAPING
SANCHEZ LANDSCAPING
**********************************************
22. SANCHEZ, ALEJANDRO
Available OREGON CITY, OR SANCHEZ BROS TRANSPORT
SANCHEZ BROS TRANSPORT
**********************************************
62. SANCHEZ, J JAIME
Available(2) Available CLACKAMAS, OR SANCHEZ PAINTING CO Painting and Paper Hanging
*******************************************
whoops, all above posts courtesy of veromi
@kimberly says:
December 13, 2010 at 2:42 pm
“Estillo salon, there are 2 different addys I’m getting, both in Oregon city, one listed on 7th and one listed on Washington st. Both say the registered owner is Estee. Godinez! The address on 7th also lists it as a piano shop, but advertises it in spanish! Info from veromi”
kimberly, I think she simply moved. Estee has been in biz since 2002. Google maps shows the piano store name still on the awning but the salon name on the door & salon supplies visible in street view, on 7th.
The Washington street building now has a Curves in it, on google street view.
I don’t even know what to say anymore about all the rest of the names! Except: Good work. : )
Regarding theories from other sites…
Someone posted that there is an elementary school on Sauvies Island, implying that if a school employee was at Skyline for part of the day and then went to SI for the other part of the day, it could explain a few things (ie. the recent email request, TH’s pings, third person).
I would love to know what the alias is that you found on Rudy.
There is an Ubaldo R and an Ublado F and now a possible third Ublado in the mix. Ublado R is a relative of RS. Jaime (male) is RS’s brother. Rudy’s family should pop up as Sanchez-Estrada’s, although with all of the aliases, who knows.
Elsy got into the mix because of the Sanchez last name and the timing her and her children disappearance. Because her daughter is named Jamie (female) and her son is Ubaldo and RS has two relatives with that name, it seemed like they could be related.
Some think that she is related to the 955 Hwy address in Woodburn, but I have never really got a straight answer on how we confirmed that address and that Maria G and Ublado F Sanchez.
I did post a name yesterday from the SF list that I thought was interesting with an a/k/a of Maria Mejia.
37.justice4kyron says:
December 13, 2010 at 4:41 am
E-Rose and Kimberly-
Have you found a connection to Ubaldo from either the Amaya-Sanchez, Flores-Sanchez or Sanchez-Flores families?
I think ***Mieja-Amaya***Amaya-Sanchez***Flores-Sanchez*** are family. I also found Anselmo Flores-Sanchez in K-Falls, age 35. I think Rudy, Anselmo, Jamie, and Roberto are cousins.
Roberto Sr. and Maria G. multiple addy’s connect to Ubaldo. Is Roberto Ubaldo’s brother or Ubaldo? (alias?)
Also found another alias for Rudy.
PS I know there was a previous connection to this country that was discounted, but I think Elsy IS from Honduras.
http://pdxmugshots.com/clackamas/mug/william-santiagobautista-1
Sorry my last post should not have stated in custody but failure to reg. as SO …. or something like that.
Months ago someone on Oregonlive posted in defense of Mr. Rudy Sanchez, saying the poor landscaper was not involved in this whole mess, blah blah blah….the posters screen name was “ohmygoodness”.
When it was brought to Blink’s attention…she said it was the landscapers wife.
Perhaps I am totally off topic here cause I don’t know Rudy’s wife;s name, but wouldn’t it be a coincidence if Godinez was it? Hence “Ohmygoodness” -screen name???
evie says:
December 13, 2010 at 4:13 pm
I don’t even know what to say anymore about all the rest of the names!
~~~
I don’t know whether I’m coming or going …
Steven Fuhrer is on the List.
Was he there?
Steve or Steven
Here is a man, who’s family has been talked about extensively. Blink even wrote about several family members in the a fact or fiction article,however he was omitted.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/
Or was it the younger Steven fuhrer that was at the school?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-Mathew-Fuhrer/100000376120596
Puzzled, Kimberly, anyone I missed-
Where is this name search going exactly and how does it tie in?
I need that information vetted or I am not going to be able to post.
TIA-
B
Old notes for @enumclawrose says: December 11, 2010 at 2:28 am
“Apologies in advance, I do not Facebook. I did find a picture of a white pickup truck with a child in the bed on a “Michael Roten” search. Just wondering if anyone with FB can vett this.”
e-rose, that MR’s facebook is not open but his employment says he is an auto tech in Burlington, NC. Sorry for the late reply.. I missed a couple of days and have just been so busy that I can’t get re-connected. I will just peck away and offer what I can.
Also for you, and kimberly, and beejay and all the others following the name trail. It’s so frustrating to be so close, and yet not able to know if we are right/close/whatever.
kimberly, I have an answer to you still stuck in moderation, so look for it at December 13, 2010 at 2:22 pm.
Also, I am seeing a new/unrelated PO Box for Estilo Salon *now*. She did share one with the RS household previously.
This could be something as simple as people house sharing, or as nefarious as you can dream up.
justice23 says:
December 13, 2010 at 3:21 pm
Regarding how RS, RS & Associates, Ubaldo, Elsie, AS-S might possibly fit into any/all this, I have no clue. I have been “puzzled” (LOL) on all these people somehow fitting together ever since we started looking into them.
~~~
I can’t figure out if we’re looking at 20 people with the same 5 names … or 5 people with 20 different names … lol
Blink …
connecting names to addresses to familial relationships. Sorry if not appropriate.
Not unless it is case relevant, no. That work needs to be vetted off-board prior to posting it here.
I am sure you understand, and thank you
B
enumclawrose says:
December 13, 2010 at 5:00 pm
There is an Ubaldo R and an Ublado F and now a possible third Ublado in the mix. Ublado R is a relative of RS. Jaime (male) is RS’s brother. Rudy’s family should pop up as Sanchez-Estrada’s, although with all of the aliases, who knows.
Elsy got into the mix because of the Sanchez last name and the timing her and her children disappearance. Because her daughter is named Jamie (female) and her son is Ubaldo and RS has two relatives with that name, it seemed like they could be related.
Some think that she is related to the 955 Hwy address in Woodburn, but I have never really got a straight answer on how we confirmed that address and that Maria G and Ublado F Sanchez.
~~~
Blink … what E-Rose said.
e-rose.. no time to match the names on the list right now, but the (very small) staff at Sauvie elementary is here: http://www.scappoose.k12.or.us/node/226
@Shelly says:
December 13, 2010 at 5:47 pm
“Perhaps I am totally off topic here cause I don’t know Rudy’s wife;s name, but wouldn’t it be a coincidence if Godinez was it? Hence “Ohmygoodness” -screen name???”
Clever, very clever, you. As with several of these players, I have to wonder at their fluency for making jokes in a 2nd language (if Spanish is her first). I know it’s very difficult for me to do in other languages.
But now you’re making me think.
Midwest Mom says:
December 13, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Steven Fuhrer is on the List.
Was he there?
Steve or Steven
Here is a man, who’s family has been talked about extensively. Blink even wrote about several family members in the a fact or fiction article,however he was omitted.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/
Or was it the younger Steven fuhrer that was at the school?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-Mathew-Fuhrer/100000376120596
——————————————————————–
@Midwest Mom.
Yep, Steve Fuhrer was on the list, along with Wendy Fuhrer.
I assume that is Tanner’s Grandma/Grandpa, right?
I think I have that right, but …
If I have all the Fuhrer-Pumala relationships to Tanner mixed up – someone please tell me.
I just took a quick look at the Facebook page you linked … and listed as friends of Steve’s is LISA PUMALA. (Tanner’s Mom)
He has 121 friends – so you have to scroll way down to the “see more friends” to see Lisa Pumala name.
One of Blinks comments that keeps pinging at me is when she said something like …
“It’s all right there is the fact-or-fiction piece”
And then listed as “Priority Lead #1″ in the Fact-or-Fiction piece is Tanner/Fuhrer/Pumala family info.
Hmmm….
No idea where to go with that … but I must have read the Fact-or-Fiction piece at least 12 times recently trying to figure what B. meant by … “it’s all right there”.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/
http://www.incitynews.net/portland/2010/12/list-of-names-sent-to-parents-in-kyron-case/
Forgot to add …
Also in the “Fact or Fiction” piece — there is mention of a WHITE Truck (with pics) parked on the Fuhrer property.
So many white trucks.
Blink,
I believe I am one you may have missed.
SORRY…I was trying to figure out the associates of RS.
I am sure we don’t want to plaster the most recent list of names on this site and start random inuendo on innocent people. Can we do a PRIVATE post if we think we are onto someone and you decide whether to post?
Blink says:
December 13, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Puzzled, Kimberly, anyone I missed-
Where is this name search going exactly and how does it tie in?
I need that information vetted or I am not going to be able to post.
TIA-
B
13.evie says:
December 13, 2010 at 2:22 pm
TY for the MR info. RE: your post, there is discussion on SM about the BD. He posted on FB everyday EXCEPT Jun4-Jun6. http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9000.580
read sassifras #589
@Kimberly says:
October 23, 2010 at 12:13 pm
…link to Avery V myspace page…had friend listed with Initials DL, clicked on him, found a friend with the last name of Sanchez, clicked on it and found someone with the last name of SOSA, Lastly , clicked on her and found
ELSA MEIJA
Link is below
http://es-la.facebook.com/people/Elsa-Mejia/100000643103724
Mexican news had political connection unsolved killings eg, on May 3, Fidel Bautista Mejia.
Kimberly,
Devin L’s (of Tillamook) FB page no longer shows a Sanchez, as you had noted. It was there once. I wonder why it’s gone?
“I think suspect zero in this case has a description, but that’s it. I pray I am wrong.
B
**It is a commonly used investigative term when there is no suspect but a profile.
B
**
Blink, can you please share suspect zero’s description/profile with us?
Prayers for Kyron
Opportunist Sexual Predator Pedophile- Highly organized offender, serial.
No kids of his own, possible divorce.
Possibly dated someone with kids in the area.
Skills or resources to go underground quickly and for sustained periods of time.
Able to function undetected in the community, but familiar enough to fit in.
No electronic footprint, but has masterful IT skills
Has had access to Skyline prior to 6/4/10 possibly through work, which I would guess is construction/electric/plumbing related.
Before you ask, yes, I believe Kyron ran into him in the “Cool Electric” Science Fair displays.
I have no idea how he might be connected to TH or RS, and neither does MCSO or they would have a suspect.
If he is profiling low risk kids (in his opinion) it would be his MO to have been around his victims and have a level of understanding of their family dynamic. In other words, he has assessed in advance
Imo, that is the missing link. I believe they have a physical description of him, thus the facial recognition portion of the cameras and the statement it was an isolated incident. That is the only way that statement does not sound irresponsible to me.
He will set off some people’s “satellites”, but with no obvious justification. An example-
one day Blinkette and I were walking through the parking lot at the mall somewhere and a guy passed us on my left. I do not know why but since my kids were born, I have always put myself between them and a stranger in every situation. If we are walking down the sidewalk and one or both is on my left and I see someone approaching ( does not have to mean that they are suspect, could be a perfectly lovely elderly lady) I always move to their left- I was not even really aware I did it without fail until this incident in particular.
Anyway… Blinkette says Mommy, that guy is a bad dude and a creep, I mean, like a perv, really bad.
I was like, really, what makes you say that? She answered, I don’t know, I just know he is, it was a vibe, he creeped me out.
I tried to press her for exactly what had “spooked” her. Did he look at her in an inappropriate way, etc? It was odd to me that she would pick up on that and I did not, my mommysense is forever in overdrive, how can this be?
The simple answer is that children pick up things we do not. The most important piece of advice I could ever impart to a parent is to teach your children to L I S T E N to those little messages without compromise. Teach them, and REWARD them for telling you about them and your communication with them will stay open.
Most importantly, do not ever doubt them when they share it with you, regardless of your personal assessment of it.
The exercise is to teach them to be responsible for their personal safety and to develop intuitively.
Conversely, when they are old enough, share with them when your satellites go off in their presence-
Example: The other day Blink Jr, Blinkette and I were shopping for materials for a project for school. Blinkette as usual is off in the store 50 yards away as soon as we enter, lol.
There was a Man that crossed my path, I had already heard his raspy overly loud voice and on-sight it had me stop what I was doing and gather Blinkette by our side. The funny thing was he was their with his teenage daughter, who was wearing a uniform from one of the most expensive prep schools in the area.
As I got a little closer to him, there was no doubt in my mind he was high on something. His eyes were red and bloodshot and wide open as if someone stuck toothpicks in them vertically, his mannerisms and gait were off, and he was oddly picking up items and just putting them back in weird places.
I gave Blinkette the “eyeball” and we went to the other side of the store, and I heard the girl say to her Dad-
“Dad, what is your deal, if you yell my name like that one more time, I swear.. what’s up with you today?”
They left, we finished our business, and when we got in the car I discussed it with the kids.
It is really our only way of arming them as best we can against a predator.
B
27.enumclawrose says:
December 13, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Hernandez.
Ubaldo’s mother’s name Amaya
Maria’s father’s name Flores
Ubaldo’s father’s name Sanchez
Maria’s mother’s name Mieja
Remember when Terri’s mother said this (see quote below) the day after Kyron went missing? It seems, IMO, to go against the direction Blink and LE have been pointing, but, still, it made me wonder if (a) a slightly older child was instructed to lure Kyron outside for abduction, or (b) an accident occurred while with this other child and his/her parents scrambled to “help”, or cover-up the accident.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html
Terri’s mom:
“He’s not real adventurous,” she said. “He’s a little timid. But if a friend wanted to go outside and look at something, he would follow the friend. He has a friend who he regularly gets in trouble with in the classroom because he talks too much.”
There are some parts of Kyron’s disappearance I am “stuck on” and can’t get unstuck, even knowing they’re probably irrelevant. Perseveration, fer sure! That said, the sci fair project below is labeled a challenging project for an 8th grader:
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Music_p005.shtml
A cool, electric one?
A quick look at Oregon law made it seem unlikely for a stun gun project to be part of a K-8 science fair. However, the law does say possession is permitted in certain educational situations; it doesn’t seem to address “outside the city limits”, yet it seems to require the possessor of a stun gun to be 18. Still, I doubt it would be allowed in a school with young kids; maybe just in college or post-grad experiments? What do you all think? So, if there was a stun gun it was probably there unrelated to the science fair?
http://www.portlandonline.com/auditor/index.cfm?c=28514#cid_15439
14A.60.030 Tear Gas and Stun Guns.
A. For the purposes of this Section, the following definitions apply:
1. Tear gas, mace, pepper mace, or any similar deleterious agent: a sternutator, lacrimator, or any substance composed of a mixture of a sternutator or lacrimator, including, but not limited to chloroacetophenone, alpha-chloroacetophenone, phaenylchloro-methylketone, orthochloro-benzalmalononitrile, oleoresin capsicum, or any chemical or combination of chemicals, whether in liquid, solid form, or gas capable of generating offensive, noxious or suffocating fumes, gases, or vapor capable of producing temporary discomfort, permanent injury, paralysis, immobilization, tears, nausea, or other illness.
2. Tear gas weapon: includes but is not limited to any shell, cartridge, or bomb capable of being discharged or exploded, when the discharge or explosion will cause or permit the release or emission of tear gas or oleoresin capsicum, mace, pepper mace or other similar deleterious agent.
3. Stun gun: an electrical device that transmits an electrical charge designed to incapacitate humans or animals.
B. It is unlawful for any person, corporation, or association to offer for sale, sell, furnish, transport, carry, possess, or use, within the City limits, any tear gas weapon or stun gun. This Subsection does not apply to:
1. Police officers in the performance of their duties;
2. Members of the armed forces of the State of Oregon and the United States in the performance of their official duties;
3. Manufacturers, distributors, or commercial sellers when selling tear gas to any governmental agency for official use;
4. Manufacturers, distributors, or commercial sellers when selling tear gas to any person, corporation or association when such sale is not in violation of this Section;
5. Persons involved in the bona fide scientific, educational, or industrial use of tear gas;
6. Persons, who have not been convicted of any felony, who possess or use tear gas, provided that it is contained in a device that is commercially manufactured to dispense tear gas from an aerosol tube as a self-defense weapon, and is designed to contain not more than 4 fluid ounces per device;
7. Persons, who have not been convicted of any felony, and who are 18 years of age or older who possess or use a stun gun for the purpose of self-defense.
C. Exemptions numbers 4., 5., and 6. of this Subsection, above, do not apply to devices that project tear gas by means of firing any type of cartridge by powder discharge, spring action, compressed air, or any other means.
D. It is unlawful for any person to use, or attempt or threaten to use tear gas or a stun gun against any person known to be, or who should reasonably be known to be, a police officer engaged in the performance of official duties.
Blink and the editors were “thinking out loud” to show us their process here:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/23/new-clues-in-kyron-horman-search-fact-or-fiction-you-decide/
Having little new to offer, I’m still focused on what the editorial group said. Why did TP talk to the media when his guardian was told (BY THE FBI!) to not do that? What would the real purpose be, since Kyron’s name was being kept in the public eye by other means? Did LE check to see what science fair projects involved electricity? Were there any? Is TP, a self-possessed and heart-breakingly angelic-looking boy, the “talkative one” Terri’s mother refers to in this article below?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html
TP seems like such a bright and articulate boy. It’s worth rethinking what the editors here asked: How did TP not notice Kyron failing to returning from the bathroom? Didn’t TP think it odd that Kyron’s gear was in the classroom and Kyron never returned for it? Maybe, as a third grader, he just figured Kyron was at the doctor’s and anything relating to his backpack and outerwear was just “adult” (i.e., boring) details. As the editors said, you’d think that at some point during the day, or on the bus, a desk-mate might ask, “Where’s Kyron?” I really hope some unnamed person isn’t using TP for his/her own purposes.
Hoping for some answers soon. Bring Kyron home!!!!!!!
no school in their right mind would allow science fair projects using stun guns,tazers or anything near that. At least not in anything but possibly high school and even then there are restrictions. I was in charge of all school science fair in Michigan for five years. K through 8th grades
There was probably a project using a light source or lighting.
I just have to say that about 30 yrs ago I lived in Idaho Falls ID and there was a murder. The rumor was that the murdered man’s two son’s did it. Well it turns out that many people knew the sons did it because they went to a party with the father rolled up in carpet in the back of the pickup and bragged about it at the party. A woman that lived behind me said she was at the party and knew this was true but told the police she knew nothing because she didn’t want to get involve. I was blown away by this… the man’s body was later found in a cabin where a bear had pulled it out and the son’s confessed. I wonder how many people really know about what happened to Kyron and are not speaking?
Blink says:Opportunist Sexual Predator Pedophile- Highly organized offender, serial.
No kids of his own, possible divorce.
****
Blink-Is there a physical description for this monster?
Not publicly, no.
B