The West Memphis Series Part II: Guilty By Plea And Have Been Set Free
Jonesboro, AR- In a shocking development, four days following the first installment of the West Memphis Three on www.blinkoncrime.com, on August 19, 2011 Damien Echols, Charles Jason Baldwin and Jessie Miskelley, through an Alford plea, were convicted of three counts of first degree murder following an agreement made by Prosecutor Scott Ellington and their respective defense attorneys for the murders of eight year old boys James Michael Moore, Christopher Byers ( Murray) and Stevie Branch.
Judge David N. Laser agreed to and imposed suspended sentences for time served to Echols, Miskelley and Baldwin; all were released and immediately declared their innocence during the ensuing press conference.
In Part I of our series, we touched briefly on the development of new evidence and possible murder weapon, the blue handled- mountain ice axe, which inexplicably was never presented at trial. It had been admitted into evidence after being retrieved from its owner, following it’s return by Jason Baldwin’s, younger brother Mathew.
Requests to confirm whether or not the ice axe was maintained in evidence at West Memphis Police Department were non-responsive at the time of this publication. Part II continues first with what the jury never heard. A podcast of my interview on the case following the release of the WM3 can be found here.
Premature Illumination
One of the larger points of contention in the murders was the lack of blood evidence at the scene. The lack of blood or blood spatter at the scene with such gruesome injuries spawned the defense theory the ditch was a dump site or secondary crime scene. This was largely due to the fact that the jury would never hear about the results of luminol tests; it was suppressed by motion of the defense In both trials.
Luminol enhanced chemiluminesence (LCL) technology in 1993 was geared toward examining items of evidence in a lab under black light for optimum photographic results, or its secondary application for use in an enclosed environment which can be manually darkened and a portable black light ( we now call this an alternative light source or ALS) brought to the scene.
LCL when sprayed onto a surface containing remnants of blood, or more specifically the iron in blood, will create a glowing reaction when iron, invisible to the naked eye, is present.
In 1993 under Arkansas law, Luminol testing was considered new, novel, and not accepted as scientific evidence.
While the methods for collection, testing and controls have advanced significantly since 1993 and LCL testing is widely used in criminal case work, analysis of the findings in the instant case flatly dispute the notion that there was no blood associated with the crime scene along the ditch bank of Robin Hood Hills.
Contrary to the misconception that there was no evidence of blood at the scene, the results of two consecutive days of luminol tests at the scene were enlightening.
As Kermit Channell and Donald Smith, from the Arkansas crime lab could not bring the “outside in” they were forced to set up shop in the woods along the banks of the ditch. Also present for testing both days were WMPD Detectives Mike Allen, Tony Anderson and Bryn Ridge.
Donald Smith’s report below in it’s entirety below, The other reports can be found here.
STATE CRIME LABORATORY
P.O. Box 5274
Number 3 Natural Resources Drive
Little Rock, Arkansas 72215
REPORT OF LABORATORY ANALYSIS
Investigating Officer / Agency / Address
Sgt. Mike Allen
West Memphis Police Department
100 Court Street
West Memphis, AR 72301
Laboratory Case Number: 93-05717
Date Received in Lab: 05/07/93
How Evidence Received: M E / Matthew Elliott
Agency Case Number:
Suspect (s):
Victim (s):
Steve Edward Branch
Date of Report; 06/10/93
FIELD INVESTIGATION. WEST MEMPHIS TRIPLE HOMICIDE. MAY 12 and
MAY 13. 1993 LUMINOL:
This analyst and Kermit Channell, Serologist responded to request to perform luminol on
a potential crime scene area on May 12, 1993. We left that afternoon, arriving in West
Memphis at approximately 6:30 P.M., proceeding to the Police Department.
Officers Tony Anderson, Brian Ridge, and Mike Allen accompanied Kermit and myself
to a swampy area in the northern edge of West Memphis where the victims were found.
A general survey of the area in the daylight hours was conducted. Approaching darkness
fresh solutions of luminol reagent were prepared. When the area became dark, using
flashlights for light support, the part returned to the area and proceeded to spray and
locate areas of luminol light emission activity, a presumptive test for the presence of
trace quantities of blood. The following observations were noted:
(1) At a trail along a stream bed an approximately 11 foot high bluff overlooking the
stream positive reactions were noted on either side of a tree with more reaction noted to
the right side of the tree, facing the stream bed.
(2) An Area with used plastic sheeting west of the trail and the bluff gave more positive
reactions were noted.
(3) At the west bank of the stream bed, to the right of some trees, an area gave positive
reaction. It was explained by the Police Department that this was where two of the
victims were placed when they were recovered from the stream bed.
(4) In the stream bed, below the described (at one time) water line, positive luminol tests
indicated where one of the victims was found in the water as related by the West
Memphis Police Department.
(5) On the east bank of the stream bed were a pile of sticks and a depression in the soil
where luminol tests showed a concentrated area of positive reaction.
[PAGE 2]
(6) North of this point luminol tests gave positive reaction to a large area of
concentration (described by West Memphis Police Department where the third victims
was placed upon recovery from the water).
(7) North of the point #6 near some tree roots, another large area of concentration of the
luminol reaction was noted.
(8) Trace amounts of positive luminol reaction was noted on the slope west of the area
where two of the victims were recovered and placed. (reference area #3). The areas north
and south of where the third victims had been placed (5) and (6) were unaccountable
known activity by the Memphis Police Department or rescue / recovery operations.
From these areas of noted luminol reactions for the presumptive presence of trace
amounts of blood the following opinion is rendered:
The traces of presumed blood detected along the trail (2), and at the bluff (1), and one the
slope (8) appear to be transfer of blood by the rescue and recovery teams.
Reaction in the areas where the recovered victims were placed is the apparent result of
trace blood transfer from the victims (3) and (6).
The area below the water level on the west side of the stream was accounted as where
trace amounts of the victimís blood diffused into the mud in the stream bed.
The areas (5) and (7) indicate activity prior to recovery of the victims and relate to
activity to the victims when perhaps they were being attacked.
It should be noted that the luminol testing was performed some days after the discovery
of the victims and at least one rainfall had occurred. There were no visible signs or
indication of blood at any of the locations that we investigated.
[PAGE 3]
Upon the group returning that night to the police headquarters Inspector Gitchell and his
staff were advised of our findings. It is our opinion the crime had taken place where the
bodies of the victims were recovered. Inspector Gitchell was further advised of the
inability to document the luminol reaction of the evening because of the light leaks from
stars and the back scattered light from West Memphis. To document the luminescence
Inspector Gitchell was advised that we would have to place tenting over the areas of
interest and to block out all stray light possible.
The luminescence requires near total darkness to document luminol reactions in the open
field.
It was decided that Kermit and I should stay over the next day perform the tests again
and photograph them.
The morning of May 13, Inspector Gitchell provided us with equipment, supplies and
manpower needed to document the areas of positive luminol reaction. A test with plastic
covering over the canvas was erected and photographs were taken of the positive areas
noted of the previous evening again with fresh luminol application.
Because of the limitations due to some light leakage, physical activity in the area
destroying some of the reaction, the weather conditions of some light rain the night
before and the originally low concentration levels in the areas on the bluff (area #1), along
the trail (area #2), where the victims were placed (area #3), and the area in the stream bed
where the body was recovered (area #4) and the area above the recovery area (area #8)
we were not able to document photography as we observed these areas the evening of
May 12.
The tented area over the areas where the victim’s body was placed (#6) and the
questioned area (#5), subdued the light to a degree that a less than perfect photograph
could be obtained. These photographs still documented the areas of interest, showing
luminol reaction in respective areas. These photographs were without the benefit of flash
painting application to reference the areas photographed. A still photo of the questioned
area from the original camera tripod location does reference the questioned area. The
photographs were processed revealing the luminol reaction at areas where the victim was
place (#6) and the questioned area (#5)
[PAGE 4]
The tent was moved and photographs were taken of the questioned area by the tree root (#7). Photographs of the areas (#4, #5 and #6) with surveyor flags mounted were taken to reference those areas tested and photographed. All photographs were left with Inspector Gitchell.
[signed] Donald E. Smith, Criminalist
Soil samples were submitted on May 14, 1993, but for unknown reasons not tested until 4 months later, and did not react to the luminol.
The result was considered inconclusive as it was not likely to detect blood from a four month old soil sample in the first place.
Although the luminol reaction results were not admissible in the trials, for analysis purposes, it tells an irrefutable story. The obvious counter-argument could only be that investigators were new to the technique, some of the initial testing was unable to be photographed, or to any conspiracies, that detectives simply made up results for some purpose.
However, as none of the investigators present had the autopsy results prior to the testing, and most certainly did not have Jessie Miskelley’s “account” to draw from, outside of the known injuries and other more circumstantial evidence in this case, these findings certainly further support there were multiple perpetrators in this crime- and that it all went down right there.
In 1998, Damien Echols filed a Rule 37 hearing for causes of incompetent counsel and due to his “actual innocence.” Jessie Miskelley lost his appeal to overturn his conviction also in 1998, but It was not until 2008 that Baldwin and Miskelley filed their Rule 37 petitions. For purposes of evaluation, I am including affidavits , exhibits and testimony excerpts from some of the expert witnesses at all three hearings and subsequent related appearance spanning from 1998- 2008.
Brent Turvey, of Knowledge Solutions, LLC trained under renowned blood spatter expert Dr. Henry Lee, did not consider any of the luminal reports when hired by Dan Stidham in 1998 for his expert opinion in his representation of Jessie Miskelley requesting a new trial. Turvey’s report found (here) was largely the impetus for future defense experts for all three defendants to “weigh in”.
While Turvey’s work was largely unsupported once his infamous “bitemark” was debunked and he bought into the “Baldwin knife” which has since been abandoned by all subsequent defense experts, as the first guy up at bat so to speak, his testimony demonstrated the burgeoning direction to the CSI Effect the West Memphis Three would take toward their ultimate freedom.
I explore Turvey’s initial observations taken directly from his report, in the beginning of each unique victim’s autopsy segment, followed by updated relevant expert information and my subsequent analysis.
Autopsy By Coroner- Autopsy By Proxy
In the interest of brevity, I intend to focus on the dissenting views of the experts, and I stipulate that in no report that I have reviewed, was there evidence of sodomy or object penetration of any of the boys.
While I believe Dr. Perretti’s prior experience with cases that involved same did form his opinion on the possibility as it relates to some of the injuries, I do not believe that such testimony should have been permitted at trial, nor would it be permitted today.
Memphis Triple Homicide May 5, 1993
James M. Moore #ME-329-93
Steve E. Branch #ME-330-93
Chris M. Byers #ME-331-93
LOCATION: On May 6th, 1993, all three victims were found, bound wrist to ankle with shoe laces, in the water of a drainage ditch, in a heavily wooded area called the Robin Hood hills, behind the Blue Beacon Truck Wash in West Memphis, Arkansas. An equivocal forensic examination of all available crime scene and autopsy photos, crime scene video, investigator’s reports, witness statements, family statements, autopsy reports and numerous other sources to be listed as referenced in the endnote section of this report. The purpose of this preliminary examination was to competently assess the nature of the interactions between the victims and their environments as it contributed to their deaths as indicated by available forensic evidence, and the documentation regarding that evidence.
James M. Moore
James Michael Moore autopsy found here.
The following forensic information is taken directly from the official autopsy report filed by Dr. Frank J. Peretti of the Arkansas State Crime Lab, Medical Examiner Division, dated 5-7-93, Case No. ME-329-93 and/ or from The official coroner’s report filed by Kent Hale, Crittenden County Coroner, dated 5-6-97.
The purpose of this section is not to present an all inclusive, detailed account and explanation of every piece of information in these reports, but rather to explore these reports, with the corresponding photos, for consistency, possible omissions, and to review injuries or patterns that this examiner deemed to be significant to the case.
Wound Pattern Analysis
This victim received more traumatic head injuries than any of the other victims in this case. Dr. Peretti states that defense wounds were present on the victim’s hands. These wounds were very few, indicating that victim was incapacitated quickly after the attack began. So the nature of these head injuries, and the limited defensive type wounds, combine to indicate sudden, forceful, and repeated blows that resulted in abraded contusions, multiple lacerations, and multiple skull fractures.
There is an unexplained directional pattern abrasion just below the victim’s right anterior shoulder area.
This unexplained injury does not correspond with any of the physical evidence collected at the location that victim was discovered. It is furthermore inconsistent with any of the naturally occurring elements that exist in that environment. The best conclusion that this examiner can reach is that this pattern abrasion was created by forceful, directional contact with something that was not found at that crime scene, whether it be a weapon, a surface or something else capable of creating that pattern.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did not leave deep furrows, and also did not leave abrasions. This indicates that the victim was not struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much unconscious when the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiners opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
When compared to the other two victims in this case, who were found at the same location, bound nude with shoelace ligatures in the same fashion, the most striking discrepancy is the lack of injuries suffered by this victim. In the crime scene and autopsy photos made available to this examiner, there were no readily discernible bite marks visible, the genitals have not been visibly disturbed or molested, and there are no discernible stab wounds. This lack of attention is very telling, and will be discussed in the Offender Characteristics section of this report. There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Analysis: I find the statement that he had the least amount of injuries, yet the most severe head injuries in dire conflict, as he died from multiple injuries, and drowning. The fractures to his head and lacerations to his left and front right skull were enough to cause his death within minutes on their own, and there can be no doubt that he received them while he was already unconscious because of the lack of injury at the ligature sites. There is very little hemorrhage involvement with the open lacerations, and all lacerations were abraded; one with a dovetail and upside down L producing an ovid fracture. In Jesse Miskelley’s confessions, he says one of them was moving as he was put in the water while he was leaving. I believe the reason he never mentioned that Michael Moore was beat about the head with an instrument of some kind is because he never saw that. Michael was located in the ditch just below the oak with the exposed root that had the luminol result “shaped like a V”, which would be consistent with him struggling to get out of that water, on that bank, with a cast off or blood spatter pattern consistent with someone beating him toward the bank and in front of that tree.
Mosquito bites: Only females take a blood meal, so that potentially reduces the population by 50%, and at no time will they bite a deceased person. They are attracted mostly by carbon dioxide, released from a breathing person. Both Dr. Haskell and Dr. Goff agreed to this ultimately.
What is further curious to me, is that while Turvey was hired by Miskelley, who confessed at least three times by the date of the generation of this report, does he not note the obvious discrepancy for the placement of Mike Moore upstream, or that he was found on his right side with the left side surfacing when in effect dislodged by Det. Mike Allen. Moore was also hogtied differently, with different knots than the other 2 victims, with ONE black shoelace. There is a reason that Turvey was not given Miskelley’s updated confession following his conviction, and instructed to disprove it; he would not have been able to.
Steven Edward Branch
Stevie Branch autopsy found here.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s face and head, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti, however, does not note the presence of extensive defensive wounds.
This indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The constellation of wounds are very similar to those inflicted on James Moore, however they are much more intense and include the victim’s face.
This level of attention paid to the victim’s face, in terms of depersonalization and rage, is indicative of familiarity and that will be explored later on in this report.
Furthermore, there is the existence of patterned injuries all over this victim’s face that could be bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis. [note: Dr. Thomas David, board certified forensic odontologist, has confirmed the wound as a human adult bitemark and excluded Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley as the offender using bite impressions obtained from the men in prison] Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting.
Another unidentified pattern compression abrasion can be found on the back of Steve Branch’s head. The source of this injury caused a 3? inch fracture at the base of the skull with multiple extension fractures that terminate in the foramen magnum (that’s the hole at the base of the skull where the spinal cord connects to the brain). Upon close examination, this pattern injury is consistent with compression made from footwear. Again, without better photos supplied to the examiner showing a variety of angles, it’s very difficult to make a positive identification of any kind. But the pattern is consistent with a footwear impression, and would require a footwear impression expert to analyze and make an informed, competent determination.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles. We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, as well as in the victim’s mouth, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts, again, suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiner’s opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
There is again a lack of evidence to support any sort of strangulation. Dr. Peretti states that his examination of the neck of this victim revealed no injuries, and the photos that this examiner has seen support that conclusion.
Analysis: He missed the wound to Stevie Branch’s penis entirely. While not contained in his formal autopsy report, it was proven during the trial that Dr. Peretti’s colleague was called into evaluate what Turvey was calling “bite marks” and was ruled out. The fact that bite impressions did not match Echols, Baldwin or Miskelley was in no way exculpatory, and I will save you the bite by some animal with a rough tounge report nonsense I had to read .
The 3” fracture at the base of the skull, which “spiderwebbed” into subsequent fractures, also very likely severed his spinal cord, so one must assume this injury was also quite perimortem.
Steve ‘s left face was found to be abraded on the entire left side, and is consistent with someone either stomping on right side of his neck and fracturing it, with an obvious boot print, if the left side of the face was on the ground.
The gouging wounds- likely had to be inflicted following the fracture due to the lack of hemorrhage in comparison to the severity of the wound, and all experts agreed the injury was likely perimortem. So the question becomes- why?
Seems like a very important question, second only to what caused the trauma, based on the constellation of terminal injuries already inflicted on him. Wouldn’t the only thing left to do at that point be to submerge him?
It is my theory- therein lies the problem. Byers was put in the ditch first, and we know he was already deceased, therefore, he sinks. Stevie Branch is placed in the water next to him, and he either begins moving or floats and the suspects thinks he is still alive, and uses an implement to force him into the ditch bottom until he succumbs and stays submerged. I will leave out the specifics of the gouging wound as to why I think that resulted in the usage of the other end of the ice axe on Michael Moore. The luminol result, found in the ditch bed itself, after it was drained, slightly downstream from Byers and Branch, but still upstream from Moore could also support this theory. We know that Byers had already bled out, but Branch was still alive when he was put into the water and the only significant bleeding wound on his person capable of leaving blood evidence in the bottom of the ditch to survive it simply being washed away in the creek, there is a high degree of probability he bled directly into the dirt. He was found face down.
Christopher Byers
Christopher Byers autopsy found here.
It should be noted that this victim’s injuries were the most extensive, most violent, and most overtly sexual of the all the victims in this case. The nature and extent of this victim’s wounds indicate that the assailant spent the most time with this victim.
Additionally, this victim’s toxicology report revealed non-therapeutic levels of carbamazepine in the blood. All of these differences are very important, and will be explored in the later sections of this report.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s head, specifically to the base of the skull. There was also evidence of the violent emasculation of the victim’s sex organs, extensive lacerations and bruising to the victim’s buttocks, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti also noted that there were numerous healed injuries of varying nature on this victim. Dr. Peretti, however, did not note the presence of defensive wounds.
Again, this indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The general constellation of wounds to this victim is more advanced, more extensive, more overtly sexually oriented and includes the use of a knife.
This knife was used not only to inflict multiple stabbing and cutting injuries to the victim’s inner thighs and genital area, it was used in the emasculation process. There is, unmentioned in either the ME’s or Coroner’s reports, what appears to be a clear impression of the knife handle on the right side of the large gaping defect left behind after the removal of the victims penis, scrotal sac, and testes. This was impression was created when the knife was thrust full length into the victim by the assailant, during the process of emasculation. This indicates forceful, violent thrusts. The nature of this emasculation, as indicated by these wounds, is neither skilled nor practiced. It was a rageful, careless, but purposeful act carried out in anger.
It is the opinion of this examiner that this injury would have resulted in massive, uncontrollable blood-loss, from which the victim could not have survived without immediate medical attention.
It should also be pointed out that the nature of the stab wounds inflicted on the victim’s genital area, separate from those received during the emasculation process, show marked irregular configuration and pulling of the skin. This indicates that either the knife was being twisted as the assailant stabbed the victim, or that the victim was moving as the blade was withdrawn.
The second set of injuries is described as five superficial cutting wounds on the left buttock (pictured on the left in this photo at the right). It should be noted that these injuries are actually lacerations, as indicated by the bridging between the open tissue, and the irregular edges. Both indicators are apparent upon close examination of the photographs. It is the opinion of this examiner that this set of injuries is most consistent with the parental whipping given to Chris Byers by Mark Byers. It is further the opinion of this examiner that after having received this set of injuries, which tore open the skin and would have resulted in some severe bleeding, the victim would have been unable to walk or ride a bicycle without incredible pain and discomfort.
The third set of injuries is the multiple linear superficial interrupted cuts on the right buttock region (pictured in the photo above on the right). These injuries are not consistent with having been made by a belt as they are cuts. The edges are not irregular, and the cuts are interrupted, again indicating movement by the victim or the assailant during the attack.
Furthermore, there is the existence of bruised ovoid compression injuries all over this victim’s inner thigh that could be suction type bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis.
Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints and positively identify a suspect. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting. The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that this victim did not drown, that is to say that no hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, or well in the victim’s mouth. This indicates that the victim was already dead when he was placed into the 2? ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills. This is, again, very different from the other two victims in this case.
Dr. Richard Souviron forensic odontologist: all mutilation is peri and post mortem, no knife was used.
On a final note, Mr. Hale states in his supplemental report on Chris Byers that there is a stab wound on his head. This is actually incorrect, and rectified by Dr. Peretti who states in his autopsy report of Chris Byers that the same injury is a 1¼-inch laceration to the left parietal scalp.
There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Additionally, unlike Steve Branch, there is no overkill present in this victim’s face. That is to say that this is another of the marked differences between the killings of Steve Branch and Chris Byers which is very important to note, and which will be explored more thoroughly in this report.
Recommendations
It is apparent from the physical evidence in this case that Chris M. Byers was attacked with sudden, violent force from which he defended himself in only a limited fashion. It appears as though this attack took place, at least in part, while his cloths were off and while the shoelace ligatures restrained him. He was sexually assaulted (an assault of a sexual nature, to areas of the body considered to be sexual, that does not include sexual penetration), and associated stab wounds indicate that he may have been conscious during several phases of the attack.
Analysis: How does he miss that the dosage of (car) was sub therapeutic, meaning below the level at which he was described and confuse it as non-therapeutic, in his estimation, as a possible means to subdue him. He completely missed the fact that it is likely that the level, found in his blood, was greatly reduced because there was very little blood volume left in his body. AND, it was a prescribed medication. Turvey does not mention the other factors that support Byers died first, and he died quickly and violently. While he did have stomach contents, he did not have any urine in his blatter and there was substantative evidence his bowels had evacuated at the scene, commonly a result of an immediate violent death.
Consensus or Conundrum- Depends Who You Ask
Regardless of which expert one believes, within the confines of each report, is the absence of the belief with any certainty that the “Baldwin” serrated knife was used. What they all agree on, is that the gouging injuries to Branch and Byers were very similar. They all agree that there was evidence of blunt force trauma, significant curvilinear fractures, what is commonly referred to in Forensic Pathology today as “chop wounds”, other sharp force trauma.
Thoughts onPost Mortem Animal Predation
I agree it is possible that snapping turtles could have caused what looks to be possible claw marks and at least one possible bite mark. I am emphasizing possible because I don’t think one can rule out animal predation 100%
Bryn Ridge himself testified he has seen snapping turtles in that area, some time ago. That said, there was not so much as a crawfish found in that creek as it was being pumped out, and that included a screen.
Dr. Spitz went as far as to suggest that somehow a carnivore of some kind was the cause of the animal predation although all oter evidence suggests that the boys were completely submerged, as well as their clothing, and there was obviously no animal tracks or other artifacts at the scene that would make that theory sound anything remotely believable. Thankfully, he stopped short of suggesting that a new breed of homicidal carnivores with a cleaner crew who could walk upright was responsible.
Fortunately I Dressed For Bushwhacking
Starting with one of the most important parts of the autopsy evidence, is the very fact that detectives knew VERY LITTLE about it outside of the cause of death, until late May at the earliest. So little in fact, that Gary Gitchell, Lead Investigator, wrote a list of follow up questions to the crime lab on May 26. (need link here)
Frank J. Peretti, MD preformed all three autopsies on May 7, 1993, and filed reports on May 10th for cause of death only. Those causes of death btw, were all listed as homicide by multiple injuries, period. Nobody knew that two boys died from drowning, and not all three. This is particularly concerning because the first conversation that Steve Jones and Det Sudbury had with Damien Echols was on May 7th prior to autopsy and in his subsequent interview with Det Bryn Ridge on May 10, when asked by Ridge how he knew about that, Echols told Ridge that Jones told HIM that whoever did this “urinated” in the mouths of the boys.
Urine was found in the stomachs of 2 of the victims, but that information was given by phone only to Gitchell, and not before May 16th, 1993. There is no possible way Damien Echols could have had case- specific information unless he was there or knew someone that was that told him what occurred, as the detective interviewing him at the time was clueless to that fact during the interview.
There are certainly many statements by both Echols and Miskelley prior to arrest that indicate they had prior knowledge of the murders, but I have been able to ride the see saw on those for the most part, like many.
The fact that Echols knew that there was urine in the stomachs of two victims, when it was intentionally ommitted from the report can only mean he was there, or knew someone who was, and in my opinion, both.
To be continued, West Memphis Three Part III
Sources:
Crime lab Index: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/crimelab.html
Chris Byers autopsy:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html
Michael Moore:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autmm.html
Stevie Branch:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autsb.html
Turvey Report: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/b_turvey_profile.html
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susanm- what I am saying is there is no way to say why he confessed.
But I think it is not necessarily because he was there, or that he participated…knowing he first got major details wrong just like Aaron just like Morgan just like the town…I think his confession was just based on what he heard.
I think given the fact that he first denied his involvement, and he called in a tip about a scary guy, and he was friends with Vicki who had no problem in dragging him into a lie about a witches meeting and orgy while implicating herself as a possible cult member- and she wasnt even mentally handicapped-I have to say- I think all of her talk and her wanting to help get DE- and her problems with the law, I think given the fact that she had no problem supplying whiskey to this Kid, and having him spend the night more than once, and having him babysit her kid and “protect” her and Aaron-
I think she was hell bent on making Jesse help her do her dirty work- I think she fed this kid stories and rumors and scared the hell out of him and threatened not to be his “friend” anymore if he didnt go to the police and help her and Aaron out. Afterall, supposedly Jesse was crying at night over his girlfriend problems- could it have been becuase he knew what Vicki wanted him to do, and he knew if he didnt do it- their friendship would end? I think she filled Aarons head with rumors too- maybe not directly but surely in an overheard conversation, and I think his overhearing all this stuff was very traumatizing to him and I think it messed with Jesses brain too- and if he and his friends were scared enough to call in the tip on that guy – then I think he was scared enough to start having nightmares about the murders and damien- heck, LE was scared enough to have nightmares about Damien- one of the detectives said he had dreams every night of Damien standing menacingly at the end of his bed…
To me his confessions read like a bad murder plot from a scary teens slasher movie- not like someone who was actually there and actually participated- this “author” didnt even get the weapons right or the evidence right or the scene right.
Morgan- Hello- I dont know what happened anymore than any of you- I gueess it is possible that scenario is close to the truth- noone has looked into it though- right?
Sigh, I am NOT saying that Jesse did this alone or with Aaron or with DE or JB- I am saying that his confessions could be twisted to fit a myriad of different scenarios – depending on which details or which confession one wants to pick apart….all of which are just as feasible or just as “farfetched ” as he confessed to a crime he didnt commit, or that his satanic cult buddies killed these little boys, as he watched yet drunkenlily ran after a boy a beat him into submission and he confessed to their doing it but omitted pertinent details and facts or flat out got it all wrong ect.
I can come up with countless scenarios that could work in one way or the other…-
for instance:
Stevie’s bike had been stolen previously, he had- just 2 weeks before the murders, received a new bike from his grandpa- what if the bullies and thugs that stole the first bike were watching little Stevie inorder to steal his brand new replacement bike? and it turned really bad really fast?
Or what if Stevie and his friends found his bike and went to retrieve it- afterall Chris didnt take his skateboard or ride his bike- maybe it was because he was asked to ride Stevies stolen bike home? What if they went and they were beaten tied and left for dead by a punch of bike thief bullies and the castration and “knife wounds” were postmortem as some believe??
Who knows? anythings possible isnt it?
cont-
AJMO
Still evaluating all I can on this case, and still have not formed a firm opinion on guilt or innocence. One thing I read last night in Callahan troubles me. In Jesse’s Feb. 4, 1994 police car confession, he states that the three of them were in the water waiting for the boys, and that Echols and Baldwin submerged themselves. He states he did not submerge himself because of ear problems. In the coroner’s reports (also Callahan) it states the water was approximately 60 degrees when the bodies were found. Please forgive me for not embedding the citations but I cannot. However they are easy to find on Callahan.
I just can’t believe the accused were wallowing in 60 degree water. It gives me the impression that Jesse was making up details as he spoke, without thinking them through. Does anyone have thoughts on this? BTW I lean toward guilt, but this find is a stumbling block for me.
Morgan you wrote-
my comments with**
-General observations that I can’t work my way past in order to exonerate the WM3:
-The knife that was found in the lake behind Baldwins.
** Morgan this knife was proven not to have anything to do with these murders at all whatsover**
-The axe that seems to have vanished into thin air. I find it more -likely that the axe containing evidence would be removed from the scene than a stick which could have been easily lost among dozens of other sticks at the crime scene, whereas an ice axe would have been easily identifiable, and removed. ** interesting thoughts but why hold on to this murder weapon at all, especially since all the other evidence was taken care of or disposed of…bloody clothes, coats, knifes, beer ect ect ect and why return it to the previous owners,with the instructions- of someone may accuse me of something…**
Speaking of the axe, do we know if Damien wore a belt, and if so was there a place on this belt that would hold an axe close to a hip covered by a coat?- ** It wasnt damien it was JB and jesse never described DE or JB or himself as having worn any trench coat the night of the murders**
-DNA similarities to Stevie Branch’s blood and Jason Baldwin’s blood found on the necklace belonging to Damien Echols. I find this evidence much stronger than the fiber evidence. ** JB blood was the same as JB’s blood- and for someone like DE who was into cutting himself- or licking blood ect does this blood mean anything more than oops missed a drop? IDK**
-BLUE candle wax – exactly what are the odds of that? ** well blue candles are very common and if the little boys had a tree house/or club house is it so hard to believe that they also bkept a candle in the tree house for when or if the batteries on their flashlights went out…and boys who play in the woods and hobos use candles too, for warmth and light and even heating up food like canned sardines**
-3 kids, 3 different methods of tying the ligatures that bound them. This I find extremely compelling.** well not if the sole perp had one or two of the boys help tie up his friends.. before the BG tied him up…and not if it is dark when they are tied- and not if the Bguy is drunk or high**
-No alibi. DE and JB and JM’s alibis are no more or less corroborated than Tery Hobbs or Morgans or Aarons or Steve jones orJKM’s or thousand’s of other towns people and bums such as Bojangles or TJ’s- most are given alibis that are estimates of times and by their wives or family members or friends**
-Spotted in the area.- ** this sighting was by a sworn enemy of Domini- who placed her walking with DE not JB and it was dark and DE was said to have on black so how could they have seen muddy clothes..and not everyone in the car saw this….and as we know eyewitness accounts are sketchy at best- many that say they saw the boys that night- including the parents say they were wearing different clothes and shoes and even backpacks**
-Misskelly’s repeated confessions, especially those spoken after the fact.** already commented on previously**
-Damien didn’t completely deny having bragged at the ball park about committing the crime. imo he left it at, pretty much, “maybe I did, maybe I didn’t. If I did I was just kidding.” ** as I said I believe this was not a confession it was a taunt given by a callous self_absorbed narcissitic teen who was trying to be cool and was being bothered by a bunch of gossipy preteen girls- each account differs on facts and was given only after DE was arrested and the girls and their parents scared themselves into believing it was more than a bad joke**
Who kids about stuff like that but one who finds some sort of sick pleasure in taunting and traumatizing, and who would deserve then to be suspect? ** I person that gets off on negative attention…a teen that goes out of his way to mold a persona- a teen who licks his lips during his trial and calls himself the boogie man- a stupid insensitive brat.**
The question has often been asked why Christopher would have been more severely tortured than the others and I would suggest that after having been beaten so severely and repeatedly by Mark Byers, Christopher was a fighter, and he fought his assailant ** May be so- but Chris isnt the one with the extensive defensive wounds IIRC**
Lastly you wrote about unknown knowledge about the crime- What unknown knowledge?everyone knew details that they couldnt have possibly of known as shown by JKM’s interviews and Aarons and countless others and that testimony from the kid that JB supposedly confessed to, reads like just what it was a story garnered from a rumor- and his statement he says jason said they dismembered them and had more than one kids scrotums and penises in his mouth:
“he dismembered them, that he played with their penis’s, sucked the blood out of their scrotums, and put the balls in his mouth.”
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/carson2.html
Hope I gave you another perspective Morgan thanks for sharing your thoughts.
AJMO
Ok ladies, consider this regarding the ice axe. It did not require that someone carry it in their hands or arms. The handle could have been placed in a belt loop of pants or if the boys wore a belt, it would have been supported by the belt. If a lanyard had been made with rope, it could have been slung over a shoulder.
Someone mentioned how clumsey the ice axe could be. Clumsey based on what experience? Female shoulders and elbows are slightly different than those of a male as are the muscles. This diffenence is enough to make something that is easy for a male, much more difficult for a female. Watch how a female throws a ball or swings a bat prior to being taught properly.
Boys have pockets in their pants that they fill with various items. This is a possible way that candles could have been taken to the site.
This is similar to ladies purses. One never knows what is contained in a ladies purse. LOL
Your correct, of course, lol, it can also be carried under a jacket by the strap or lanyard if one were so inclined, like a purse.
B
@mjh
I believe Morgan is referring to the Hollingsworths reporting they saw Damien on the service road that night. I don’t know which statements to link here, just site search Callahans for “Hollingsworth”, there’s a few of them.
They claimed he was with Domini. The prosecution’s angle at the trial was that the Hollingsworths actually saw Damien and Jason, and confused Jason for Domini. Now, I do believe it would’ve been possible for someone to confuse Jason and Domini (similar built at the time, similar hair, jeans and black shirt etc.). But the Hollingsworths were family to Domini (in-laws, really) and knew her well, and they gave enough details of the clothes the person was wearing that I don’t think they could’ve confused who the person was.
I think that she went back there as well, and I think they were looking for the bag with clothes in it.
I will be the first to admit this is speculative on my part, but her reaction when she said “I don’t care nothin bout those kids or there parents” will stay with me.
I think the Hollingsworths really did see Domini with Damien that night. Maybe she came back and helped clean up, or came looking for Damien… I don’t know. But I think she was there sometime that evening. Which reminds me, there are still hairs found at the scene which don’t match the WM3, the victims, or any of the victims’ families. And I believe they’ve been determined to be Caucasian, so it can’t be Bojangles either. I say, test Domini.
Ragdoll
I have to agree with you regarding 48 hours. These are all shows that follow the thinking of a producer. There will be some truth and a lot of facts without backup.
Go back and think about what makes up propaganda. It is an improper premise designed to lead one to an improper conclusion. This can be done with video as easy as prose.
@mjh
Sorry, one thing I forgot… This isn’t anywhere in the official documentation, but the Moores believe they saw Echols in the vicinity of the crime scene in the early morning of May 6. If I remember correctly, Todd Moore says they didn’t recognize him at the trial with his “cleaner” look – new haircut, dressed completely differently. And that they only put two and two together after the trial, when they saw pictures of the way Echols looked before.
I don’t know much about this, though, and can’t remember where I read it, so if anyone knows more, please help me out or provide some links.
mom 3.0 ,i havent seen all of paradise lost, only the first 30 mins. ,so i dont know if gets biased as it goes along.i actually cant watch it,yet , cause i am afraid of it being biased,and i agree with mr. blink , but my from what i saW ,it didnt seem that the intention was to make a biased film,the public chose to take a biased view after celebs started sharing their view, that they were innocent. i am saying that from the perpespective of having heard about the film 2 days after its very first screening.the point my friend made, who saw it at sundance(the first time it screened), was that it was polarizing, she changed her mind 3 times ,as to quilt,as she was telling me about it.watching jason swivel in the chair,in that part of the doc. ,gave me a feeling of a shell game,i m not sure why.—————-mom 3.0,i think we agree,just getting different results. i think jessie didnt testfy because he is lying about who did what, and he cant bring himself to send jason or damien to the electric chair for something he did( or someone he might be protecting-far-fetched,imo) , i think he was handed the cool wand and given sophio’s choice ,and he blames “whoevers” notion that this was a cool thing to do ,for peer pressuring him.but that is just my opinion, and i have not seen half of the transcripts in this case or seen aaron’s videotapes. i havent finished responding to the vicki jessie reward money,i forsee many complications,on that road , i havent fully flushed it out ,yet.
mjh says:
September 18, 2011 at 10:56 am
mjh, here’s one link:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/cmorris.html
STATEMENT OF: Carrie Morris
***Hokiday Drive
DOB: **-**-** S/R **/W/**
DATE: 9-29-93
On Wednesday, May 5, 1993, I was going toward Barton we, when I saw Michael Moore walking about 3 house’s in front of Mr. Echols. Michael Moore was going home to get his bicycle to go trail riding with Steve Branch. This was at about 3:30 or 4p.m. About an hour later Michael, Steve, Chris came and ask my daughter (Tiffany Morris 8 years old) to go ridin with them. I told them no. We left to go to Memphis, when they were chasing my truck. This was about 4:30pm.
Damien & Michael were both walking South on 700 block North Wilson on the East side of the street. I know it was Damien Echols because I saw his picture in paper after he was arrested. I knew it was Michael from school and knowing his parents all my life & known Michael for about 3 years ever since they moved back from Florida.
CAM
3:45 P.M., on the 29 day of Sept. 1993
Doc# 003413
_____________
I made note of this one, so it was readily available, but will have to locate where I read that Echols and Baldwin were seen nearby.
CJinTX
Your questions regarding the actual memory of Jessie and others are IMO a valid ones. The reference to how GA was able to remember exactly what little Caylee wore was totally destroyed last evening on the Judge Jeannie show by none other than Mark Furman.
Mom3.0
You are still having difficulty understanding the use of the ice axe to perform the castration and the other blows to the body. My 22 oz. framing hammer has a 14 1/2″ handle. The claw section is at a similar angle to the blade of a ice axe. These claws are designed to be used in a rip mode as well as for pulling nails. All one would need to do to use it to create similar injuries to the castration would be to “Choke-up” on the handle and drive the claws into a body.
We don’t have a length of the ice axe handle. It could be as short as 26 inches or as long as 32 inches. It really doesn’t matter as to the total length. All one has to do is to place the hand on the handle in such a manner to control it as needed.
@Ragdoll, Johnny Depp’s cameo was from a previous 48 hours long before their release. They basically took that old 48 hours show and then added the new stuff about their release to it. I’m glad that Johnny Depp didn’t do an updated interview and hopefully it’s because he has doubts because of Blink’s work.
Morgan, I’ve seen Todd Moore say Carrie Morris’s statement was found to be a lie, and that she was out for attention.
http://westmemphishomicidesdiscussion.yuku.com/topic/5630
7. Fact- They were seen walking away from the crime scene area on the night of May 5 on the south service road. (I am attempting to locate who it was who saw them.)
ATG – I regret missing Judge Jeannie’s show. I like her and Mark Furman. Must set my DVR to record her.
Re the ice ax – I didn’t realize how big the ice ax really was until Krayon’s post on 09/11 at 2:46. Quite the formidable weapon. If Damien and Jason were wearing their dusters (which it seems I read they wore them even in warm weather), it could have easily been concealed and carried. I’ve never examined a duster, but would imagine it would have pockets (large pockets) and maybe a loop on the inside of the duster to insert it. Several cans of beer could also be carried in the pockets. I’m still undecided if the murders were premeditated or just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
“I am attempting to locate ….”
Someone other than Morris, that is.
Morgan,
it was the Hollingsworths (Narlene, Tabitha etc.) Just search the Callahan archive for “Hollingsworth”.
TGF- I appreciate you taking the time to explain your reasoning’s regarding your speculations on the ice ax-
Thanks for listening to mine
I am not misunderstanding this-
Jesse described the use of a knife and a stick- he said that Jason sat on the victim and held his mouth shut with a shirt and not only cut the face but cut off the penis- the speculation is that this was Jesse describing the use the ax –
These boys werent tied up yet- not according to Jesse- Jason Baldwin had to be able to not only keep one hand over the mouth- but wield the iceaxe in such a way, as long as it was, as hefty as it was, as akward as it was, with the double blades- and the shaft and the spike- and do this all without getting a speculated lanyard stuck inside a wound- or bloodied up- and without the victim sitting up- or moving his legs in such away to get more cuts and to create that castration not messily, not definitely pointing to use of an ax, but in such a manner that FOR YEARS some experts believed that it was done with such precision that only someone with great knowledge of anatomy and a scapel ect could have performed it- and again-JB had to make these cuts in such a manner that the wounds were not thought to be from an iceax- afterall for many years EVERYONE thought that a serrated edge knife made the cuts-
JB had no cuts on him- no knuckle wounds from beating the kids and hitting bones or teeth, no scratches- not from the iceax and not from the spike part either and not from the victims- He was supposedly sitting ontop of this little boy- and doing this ALL one handed and he supposedly did it all without leaving behind ANY DNA evidence no hair- no sweat- no saliva- no semen- no blood
all this done – by a scrawny 16 year old kid, who had been drinking and had mowed a lawn that day, and who had supposedly walked all day in a trench coat in the sun, in heavy traffic- this kid with the twiggy arms that couldnt fight his way out of a paperbag.
Sorry but I cant see it happening that way at all.
TGF- candles carried in pockets tend to break into unusable pieces..and lets remember according to Jesse confession- there was no mention of a candle blue or otherwise.
Blink Hi nice to have you back in bold-
I am glad you were the one to say that it is complete speculation on your part- Why would they go back to look for the bag with clothes in it? None of those clothes or the razors could be tied back to them at all- those clothes had no blood on them, or semen just mold- and a million people- transients included could have frequented road runner petro…. so I cant see DE taking his pregnant girlfriend back to the murder scene in the dark- risking being seen IN a trench coat- all to get rid of a bag of clothes.
Here is MMoores dad saying he saw Damien-
snipped:
we all seen him on the 7th st. bridge the morning we were looking for them around 7am or so but with so many transients coming thru WM with two major interstates running thru town no one gave him a second thought. nothing sticking out at all we were sitting on the side of the road on the small bridge discussing where to look next we thought they were still on their bikes but maybe lost and he just walked by on the other side of the street walking north and just kept on walking, nothing at all stuck out to make us question just another hitchhiker walking down the road like I said I-55 and I-40 come together and we have lots of them passing thru at any given time on any given day. It was a year or so later before it clicked who that was.
As far as him out that time of day maybe he was checking on his crime scene to see if anyone had found them yet so he was crusing the area or going from his home to lake shore to domini’s who knows… Not that it matters
http://www.downonthefarm.org/wm3hoax/board/index.php/topic,10683.0.html
—Please keep in mind that neither of MM parents brought forth this info until long after the trial- and as Mr Moore said- nothing stood out he thought it was just a HH or transient. I am not sure if after that time and after all of the horrendous details and dealing with their sons heinous murder if they may have in flashbacks, put dE’s face on the hobos body in their minds eye afterall he was the convicted murderer of their son and was said to have been the ringleader…
AJMO
Thanks for providing the link to Mr Moore saying that, Mom3.0!
@Morgan and Lucy –
Thank you. I’ve got it now. I knew about the Hollingsworth’s saying they saw Damien and Domini walking down the road that night.
I have also read the statement of Carrie Morris before, but I disregarded it. It didn’t make much sense and it didn’t really mean anything to me in this case.
I thought you knew of someone who had seen all three (Damien, Jason and Jessie)in the area that night.
Sorry, Morgan, I didn’t intend to make you search for so long.
I did not know that Todd Moore thought he saw Damien early the morning of the 6th. But, since it took him a year to realize it, I don’t know…maybe he just imagined that the person he saw was Damien.
in my theory, as to why chris bryers is worse, is because he took scouts honor and wouldnt drink the alcohol,like mm did,therefore he is a ,and doesnt deserve his manhood .so disgusted as i write that
Mom3.0
To add more to my speculation, I have always thought that the cuts to the scrotum were pure luck. A slash with the axe and pulling it back at an angle did the job. There was no precise knowledge involved.
Again we are depending on a description by Jessie. This may not have happened in the sequence he describes. As many confessions as he made, none were exactly alike and the time lines are all over the place.
There is no way IMO that these boys,as small as they were, are attacked and controlled by a single individual.
The comment by the father about the boys getting lost on their bikes is mostly wishful thinking. Boys in a group of three are going to talk to one another and notice the area where they are riding.
in the geraldo show linked the other day , ms hobbs says her and terry went to the crime scene,after hearing the boys were found,i wonder seeind’g as how lax the investigation was if he was allowed to get close enough to look and that is how his hair got there.
I’m sorry, OT….but I’m gonna get this thread off #666. I’m just a little TO country to be comfortable with that.
Lol, thanks for that.
B
Mom3.0 says:
September 18, 2011 at 1:53 pm
Good morning, Mom3. Thank you for your detailed response to my post. You have certainly given me cause for pause a time or two, and inspired me to dig a little bit deeper. I appreciate the time, attention and respectful consideration you show all who post, as well as I wish that I were half as discerning as you.
Having jumped from initially believing the WM3 to be guilty, to giving careful consideration to Mr. Bojangles, only to abandon him to John Mark Byers, the guilt of whom I’d have bet my best shoes upon, I feel that I’ve come full circle, however jagged a circle it is, for as stuffed as it is with a mountain of unanswered questions, one of them being that knife:
http://www.jivepuppi.com/jivepuppi_knives_2.html
The first to step forward was, yet again, Jason Crosby. On November 18th, the day after the discovery of the Lake Knife, Jason Crosby made a statement to the police wherein he said he had a knife stolen from him about one year in the past. He said he confronted Jason Baldwin about stealing the knife and said Jason told him he had traded the knife and a trench coat to a relative for a bicycle. The knife was in many ways similar to the Lake Knife. He described the knife as about 14 inches long, with a black handle and a screw cap and a small storage compartment. It was said to have a hump or curve in the blade and had the brand name “Fury” on the blade next to the handle.
Deanna Holcomb, the ex-girlfriend of Damien Echols, stated that Damien had owned a similar knife. “About E-169 that reminds me of a knife that Damien had was the ridge edge and the handle, the end part of the handle. The shape of the blade. Damien had it around October of 1991, in a trinch coat.” Deanna Holcomb statement, 2-14-94.
She went on to testify at the Echols/Baldwin trial:
Davidson: Now, let’s go back to this large knife. Where did you say that it was when you saw it?
Holcomb: In his trench coat pocket. [Echols/Baldwin trial]
____________
I know this knife has been discounted, but as yet I am not ready to abandon it completely, if only because it’s been stated that Damien’s trench coats went missing, as did the knife last seen in the pocket. Who’s to say it wasn’t Damien’s then? He even said he’d owned such a knife but of a different description. To further befuddle my understanding comes this, from the same write up:
“A recent twist in the saga of the lake knife has appeared in the recent court filings. In the 2008 Writ of Coram Error Nobim by the attorneys for Jason Baldwin, they state “… post-conviction investigation has revealed that at least two witnesses [Domini Teer and Garrett Schwarting] told the police that they were aware that a large knife was thrown into the lake before the murders. Also, one of the law enforcement dive team has indicated the officers were given precise directions on where to find the knife.” In this writ, the attorneys for the defendant argue that witholding this evidence comprised prosecutorial misconduct.”
___________
I haven’t dug into this to know if Domini (whose credibility I’d question regarding any knife) and Garrett identified who it was they saw toss the knife, before the murders – which I find curious – into the lake.
As for the axe? There’s not much I can say about that other than to stand gratefully corrected (JB not DE) and suggest that the owner of such a valued possession wouldn’t be anxious to discard it, but would prefer to clean all traces of evidence from it. Oftentimes murderers discard their weapons, and oftentimes they do not. As for returning it to the previous owners, well, that sort of reminds me of Byers giving his knife to the HBO guy, perhaps with the hope that no one would look there for it.
The trench coat: You’re right. Great detail was offered regarding what each of them wore, and I don’t recall that a trench coat was mentioned, though the absence of a trench coat wouldn’t discount the presence of an ice axe, would it?
The necklace: ** JB blood was the same as JB’s blood- and for someone like DE who was into cutting himself- or licking blood ect does this blood mean anything more than oops missed a drop? IDK**
Ew. DE into cutting himself – licking blood – feeling like God when he drank blood – so why not the blood from CB’s boy parts as was testified to?
Blue candle wax: Simply, candles come in many different sizes, some of which would have fit quite nicely into a pocket without breakage. The lower quarter or third of a twelve inch taper might well survive a pocket.
3 kids, 3 different methods of tying the ligatures that bound them:
I’m sorry Mom3, but I just can’t imagine this. Perhaps I just don’t want to for the horror it would have entailed. A terrified, trembling child would have had to be instructed on how to do what, and I do suppose that would have taken a good deal of time. No, I don’t even want to imagine this scenario. But then, neither do you, I’m sure. Then too, if there was only one perpetrator involved, how was it that this one kept any one of the boys from fleeing the scene, as surely one would have attempted to, and did, according to Misskelly.
No alibi. This is debatable, especially as it pertains to Hobbs. When I noted this I didn’t copy the link to Word, but will attempt to find it. Some of the links are provided in the post:
TERRY HOBBS TIMELINE
4:25-4:30pm – gets home from work (Pam Hobbs, Interview with WMPD, Exhibit 42, p. 157)
4:30-4:45pm – Pam and Terry wait for Stevie to come home. When he doesn’t, Pam suggests driving by the Moore’s house before having Terry drop her off at work (Pam Hobbs, Interview with WMPD, Exhibit 42, p. 158).
Terry confirms this in both his WMPD interview and videotaped depositions for the Pasdar lawsuit.
4:45-4:55 – Pam and Terry drive by the Moores. Dawn is the only one home and she says that the boys are riding bikes.
Terry discusses encountering Dawn at the Moores’ home briefly in his WMPD interview and in his depositions.
4:55-5:05 – Terry drops Pam off at work. He and Amanda return to the house. They maybe look around for Stevie, but most likely Terry went over to Jacoby’s for an hour because he figured Stevie would return on his own within about an hour.
5:15pm – Amanda and Terry arrive at Jacoby’s house. This timeframe is substantiated by David Jacoby’s statement to Rachel Geiser and in his declaration for the Pasdar lawsuit (Exhibit 10).
6-6:30pm – Terry leaves David Jacoby’s house to see if Stevie has returned home. Supported by David Jacoby’s statement to Rachel Geiser and in his declaration (Exhibit 10).
6:30-6:45pm – Dana pulls up to Terry’s home and asks if he has seen Michael. He tells her he is looking for Stevie. Terry discusses this in both his WMPD interview and in his depositions. Dana is never asked about when she spoke to Terry and so none of her statements reflect a time.
6:45-6:50pm – Terry follows Dana back to her house to see if Michael has been found. After Dana saw all three children on two bikes at 6pm (a time she never wavers on, even during testimony) she sent her daughter Dawn out to find Michael so he could come back to eat supper. Dawn was unsuccessful in locating Michael. Dana testifies about this in both trials. Dawn probably returned to the house to tell her mom she could not find Michael between 6:30-6:45pm (approx)
6:50-7pm – Dana and Terry are talking in Dana’s front yard and Mark Byers comes across the street to ask if they have seen Chris. They tell him no, but Dana says that she saw all three boys riding bikes earlier at 6pm together. At this point, all of the parents present know that the boys are with each other. Terry discusses this in his WMPD interview and in his depositions. He further states the following during his 2007 police interview:
Terry Hobbs: I mighta even called from there cuz i’m, I don’t remember that, but i’m, I member when we’s at the Moore’s house and I met Mark, I member telling Dana cuz they both said they was gonna call the police and I told one of, I said, tell them Stevie ain’t here too. So I think, I didn’t call, I didn’t make that call right then but I mentioned that to Dana.
7:00-7:10pm – Terry returns to Jacoby’s to ask him to help look for Stevie. Jacoby mentions this return in his declaration but does not give a time. He gives a time of between 7 and 7:30pm during his interview with Rachel Geiser. Terry confirms returning to Jacoby’s during his interviews, although he is evasive about it being a second trip because he is covering up the first hour he spent there when he thought Stevie would return on his own.
7:10pm – Terry and Jacoby search for Stevie near Mayfair as discussed in Jacoby’s statements. Terry says in his WMPD that he and Jacoby drove around at this time to look for Stevie.
7:30pm – Terry drops Jacoby off and leaves again, possibly to check back at home for Stevie. Jacoby confirms this in his declaration but does not give an exact time.
7:30-7:45pm – Terry checks back at the house, but his whereabouts for this short timeframe are unaccounted for beyond him leaving Jacoby’s house.
7:45-8:15pm – Terry comes back to Jacoby’s and the two drive around again, this time taking the same route twice and stopping by the pipe bridge. They entered the southern portion of woods at the end of McAuley but probably did not cross the pipe. The reason for them getting out and going into the woods is probably because it was during this second search that some children told them the boys had been seen going into the woods.
8:15pm – Terry drops Jacoby off at his home for good.
8:15pm-8:30pm – Terry goes home to see if Stevie has shown up. It is also possible that Officer John Moore stopped by the Hobbs residence closer to 8:30pm because Officer Meek made a statement that she told Moore that one of the stepfather’s whom she had not spoken to, Terry, was at his home and didn’t know where his child was either. If you look at the police logs it makes sense that Meek told Moore about this other stepfather during this timeframe (closest to 8:30pm). Moore was never asked if he had any interaction with any of the parents prior to going to Catfish Island and so there’s nothing else to substantiate it. He was only asked to testify about taking the missing person’s report and his activities after this. Logs:
http://callahan.8k.com/images2/logs/0505_3-11_05.jpg
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/logs.html
Meek’s Pasdar deposition contains the following statement:
1 A I was finishing the report for Ms. Moore when
2 Officer Moore came back and said that the mother was at
3 work and that the stepfather was at home and that he
4 didn’t know where his child was either.
5 So I asked Officer Moore if he would mind going to
6 the mother’s place of employment, which was I believe
7 Catfish Island, and take a report for the third child. And
8 I had already broadcast the information and descriptions of
9 the two children, but we needed further information for the
10 third child.
This is more evidence also that Terry had spoken to Dana and Mark BEFORE they made the police report and not AFTER Officer Meek left the home as Mark Byers says.
8:30pm – Dana tells the Byers’ that someone told her they saw the kids at the edge of Robin Hood (Melissa Misskelley testimony). Melissa stated that Brit, Patsy (Brit’s mom), Terry Hobbs, Pam Hobbs, JMB, Melissa, and Dana Moore decided to search that area (Melissa Misskelley testimony). Terry likely searched some part of the woods around this time before leaving to pick his wife up from work. Mark Byers substantiates this by saying that a bunch of people met at the woods and spread out, saying that Terry went in the direction of where the boys were found (Mark Byers’ May 19th police statement).
8:30-8:45pm Terry does the above, most likely hoping to find the boys before he has to tell his wife Pam that Stevie never came home.
9:10-9:15pm – Terry arrives at Catfish Island and calls the police to make an official report that Stevie is missing.
9:15-9:40 – Terry and Pam give Officer John Moore information about Stevie and file a missing person’s report
9:45 – 10pm – Terry and Pam follow Officer Moore to the woods. Officer Meek is there and she goes into the woods a short ways, but turns around because the mosquitoes were too much (Meek testifies about this at both trials).
NOTE: On page 162 of Pam Hobbs’ interview with a WMPD detective she stated she never knew the Robin Hood woods existed before that night, just as Terry would later say also.
10-10:15pm – Terry takes Pam home so she can change her clothes. He discusses this in his interviews and Pam tells the WMPD this in her interview as well (Exhibit 42).
10:15pm-10:30pm (approx) – Pam would later say in her police interview with the WMPD that Terry left her and she walked to Jacoby’s house to call her dad. Terry confirms that she went to Jacoby’s to call her dad, but does not say he left her and didn’t say where he was going. Terry was asked if he went back to the woods after Pam changed clothes and he said, “all night long”.
11:00-12am – (not sure of the exact time Jackie Hicks arrived at Pam’s, but Pam said he got there very quickly and he lived about 50 miles away). Jackie Hicks, Pam’s dad, came to help look for the boys. He searched with Terry and David Jacoby. This is substantiated in Blood of Innocents and also by various statements made by Pam. Terry said in his WMPD interview that they looked in the woods. At some point David Jacoby had to leave because he needed to work in the morning.
12am-3am – Jackie, David, and Terry searched the woods (Pam’s statements support this, Blood of Innocents, etc.)
3am-6am – Only vague information exists about Pam and Terry searching; however, Todd Moore stated that when he and Dana went to the Hobbs’ residence early in the morning both Pam and Terry were awake and ready to go back out searching.
http://www.wm3blackboard.com
_____________
Blink, I’m sorry this is so long, and will continue, but with a few points left to address.
I look forward to your take on all of this Mom3.
To be continued
CC from MI,
Hello- I appreciate you coming here to get our thoughts on that.
Heres mine FWIT;
Jesse statements, all of them IRT the creek descriptions and the events surrounding the creek bother me tremdesously- because each are different and contain details that are highly questionable.
IRT to that description- he also said that they were taking turns going down under that water -that filthy, gross, murky water- which according to Jesse was deep over his head deep- which we know wasnt true…implying that they may have been performing fellatio one one another- Somehow- I can not see Damien- narcissistic- in love with his looks Damien “playing” in that water and certainly not naked.
As for the temp of the water I agree with you- that would just had to the grossness- who knows what could have been in that water? snakes, beavers, snapping turtles, diseases- no I dont see Damien venturing into a disgusting drainage ditch-to skinny dip- I dont think JB or JM would have either- JMO i look forward to more posts CC.
susanm- Hi- thanks for clarifying about the documentaries- i cant bring myself to warch them yet either, and one of the reasons is because I want to have a clear thought process .
I think we agree on alot of things susanm- I think what we have proven with our debates, all of us, is that at the very least, the juries that convicted these three couldnt have possible looked at every angle- although they ofcourse were not privy to alot of infomation and denied access to other- and given some they shouldnt have had….
cjinTX- hello-I agree a duster may hide alot but Jesse said out right in EVERY statement that damien was not wearing one and jason wasnt waering any coat and JM said he wasnt either – and he also said the beer was a 12pk carried in a brown paper sack and he NEVER said anything about an iceax JFTR
susanm says:
September 18, 2011 at 8:05 pm
Susanm the kids drank alcohol? Say what? I am not sure I am understanding your theory did Jesse say Chris refused to drink the alcohol because of a scout oath?? JFTR all of the boys were scouts Aaron too- I believe as Vicky once said that Mike and Stevie asked her after school if Aaron could go to the scouts meeting, and she said no and it wasnt scouts night- probably another fabrication- but offering it up to illustrate all were scouts and meetings were on Thurs…
Ps Re- Hobbs hair- it is my understanding that the hair was found entwined in the ligatures not just lying about the area…
Morgan- Hi thanks for taking the time to write that up and thanks for the compliments- I will wait to read the next part to gather my thoughts and write a response-
Lucy- you are most welcome for the link.
AJMO
sorry for the typos- hope you all can decipher my mess.
TGF- Hello, sorry I missed your re to my post-
TGF- anything is possible and I agree we are all depending on the confessions of Jesse- which we know contain outright lies fabrications misremembrances and wrong details -
We are all trying to figure out if any truth was given and if so, where did this truth come from?- his actually being there and actually participating? or his imaginings and rumor based knowledge fed to him by LE, the town & Vicki, his friend, who was trying desperately to insert herself and Jesse into this mess- to the detriment of herself, her child, the community, the families, the victims, LE, and ofcourse to the detriment of truth and justice.
AJMO
atg, re: mike echols,well , damien was michael wayne hutchinson,&was adopted by stepfather jack echols, so his name before changing it to damien would be michael(mike?) echols, the thought did cross my mind that maybe their related,mike echols ,if there were a relation ,would be related to his stepfather,( wonder who is the abuser of damien and his sis?),yes the thought also occured that perhaps damien ran across his writings. but mostly i just thought it a weird co incidence. i was actually think,ing about about all the rumored or not sexual perv. stuff seemed to be abundant, which father was aressted for indecent or exposure,or what was it?just after the word nambla came up , i thought, that rotten smell in denmark ,could possibly be a nearby ,nambla clubhouse,ala aarons five men,woods are a known common (from town to town gay pick up spot). also ,i had just looked up the meaning of echols,and it means ,dweller near the church,and mike echols, with his biblical passage logline,and tony’s boys , in his bio , he was literally a dweller near the church,co- incidence , baglady , said michael changed his name to damien , cuz his was close to someone(his pastor? ,preist?) at church named damien , iirc. idont know if means anything in this case directly ,but in bigger scheme of things ,there are cases of sexual mutilation of young boys in the nambla files,ritual habitual.
Thanks Mom3.0. You do know the details of this case. I appreciate your very studious posts tremendously and I agree it is hard to see how an ice axe could be used to make the cuts on Stevie Branch. ATG’s explanation helps, but you still raise very good questions. Darn! You are good, very, very good. I am learning a lot from you. Thank you.
To Mom 3.0 and others:
Like most, based on the celebrity hoopla, I originally assumed the WM3 were innocent. Because of my respect for Blink’s analytical abilities, my opinion changed as I read Parts I and II. So many of her arguments are compelling and well documented. A few weeks ago I began slogging through Callahan in order to familiarize myself with the references made by Blink and other commenters. Nothing I encountered changed my acceptance of their guilt until Jesse’s Feb. 4, 1994 police car confession, in which he described their submersion in the 60 degree creek water. That rang a bell in my head, the same bell that rang when Susan Powell’s husband said he took the kids camping in a blizzard. I can accept DISCREPANCIES in Jesse’s confessions, given that he was drunk, frightened, ashamed, etc. The brown rope vs shoe laces to bind the boys is an example of a discrepancy I can live with. But the swimming in cold, dirty creek water just strikes me as a lie. It’s a lie he had no reason to tell. It prevents me from accepting the rest of his confessions at this point. And without his confessions we have precious little to go on in this case.
I am eagerly awaiting Part III, as my mind is not entirely made up. I still think it would require at least two perpetrators to commit this crime. The WM3 seemed to be antisocial, angry misfits who were capable of a thrill killing. Maybe there was a Leopold/Loeb dynamic going on.
@ Morgan….where did you find the “Terry Hobbs Timeline” ????
If the water temperature in the bayou was 60 degrees F. as reported, there is no way that any of the teenagers could stay in it over five minutes and not suffer thermal shock.
This is May 5 in the Northeast portion of Arkansas. The weather is not yet warm enough to heat the water very much. This makes me very skeptical of Jessie’s description.
ATG, if I’m remembering correctly, 60 degrees is the borderline value for potential thermal shock. So I’m not sure if we can say with certainty that they definitely would have suffered thermal shock after 5 minutes? Speaking as a total layman, of course…
In any case, I don’t think he says how long they supposedly stayed in the water, so conceivably it could’ve been less than 5 min.
When it comes to Jessie’s perception of the water (over his head etc.), I think we should take into account that he was totally wasted at the time.
I does strike me as weird that they’d go into the cold, dirty water but, again, wasted teenagers… I know I’ve done stupider things drunk. And seen lots of people under the influence do way stupider and more disgusting things too (and some people not under the influence, come to think of it).
Not that I’ve decided how I feel about this piece of Jessie’s confession(s). Like the guy with the briefcase, this is one of those things I still think about… So, basically, just speculating when it comes to this part.
Honestly, I simply took it as though he was blotto, and these actions were of the two cleaning up.
B
that confession is not a deal breaker for me, it has been doctored ,and re-chronicalled by the cops,and i bet he said sitting “by” the water,and he has said before that jason and damien are going up and down in the water , i took that were washing the blood off , in, out,quickly ,to get the blood off, a crime like that,the adrenalin,drunk ,i bet someone would jump in,out quick if they had to, the cop fell in, he didnt die. and jessiefelt like he was tricked into it,if it was a false confession ,truly , this isnt what he would be saying,he would be saying ,i wasnt there i lied ,i didnt have anything to do with it. the sex that he is claiming: dom, dam & jas ,and the boys rape ,jive talkin,bs ,ear candy for the cops ,what they want to hear,and revenge for being peer pressured,he is basicaly saying ,yea, they’re sick,and embellishing it to make it worse -they are real sick ,something has to be done. , ::
To: Inspector Gitchell
West Memphis Police Department
From: Clay County Sheriffs Department
The following statement is a narrative as told to Deputy James Lindsey and myself.****** This statement is not in chronological order as it was given by Jessie but has been put in order to the best of our ability with knowledge of your case*********. Your department may have knowledge of this in its entirety, if not, mabey it will provide a little insight as to what took place on May 5th 1993.
Xara says:
September 19, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Xara, I’ll look for it. So many times when I run across something interesting that I want to get back to, I’ll copy and paste it into Word and forget to include the link. For that matter, I can’t continue with the to be continued, until I have located another such link.
My bad; but I’m learning.
susanm- hello again- just wandering if you saw my question regarding drinking alcohol?
I wanted to jump in respectfully, to give my two cents…Damien took that name when he entered the catholic church- many followers tend to take a saints name as their own when being baptized or confirmed- or even when “joining”
JM did not say sitting “by” the water and he didnt say it was for under five minutes he said that they were playing in it, splashing one another, throwing things at one another- and he described this happening BEFORE the little boys came- not after the murders…
big red flag-wouldnt he have known the water wasnt over his head deep, if he was actually there and recounting the events? – because DE and JB would have had to float or tread water in the times they were taking turns going down under the water…
Heres the thing- why give JM a pass on certain wrong details or facts because he was drunk?- If you believe that he was so drunk to not know what happened then you have to believe his confessions are not trustworthy or reliable in anyway- and there is no evidence that he was totally wasted or blotto he afterall supposedly did the crime- then still had whiskey in the bottle which BTW was covered in another brown papersack- and then walked all the way home ate and went wrestling… The reason I bring up that brown papersack is to mention the fact that one of the reasons a sack is used- besides to keep it hidden,is so if the bottle breaks the pieces stay IN THE BAG and dont cut your hands- so I guess we have to believe that he took the sack off the bag before throwing it…
RE statement? Its a narrative? and didnt happen in the way Jesse described? WHAT?!!! “but has been put in order to the best of our ability with knowledge of your case” WHAT? it was doctored? Then how does this not lead everyone to dismiss it totally?
AJMO
CJinTX- hi- thank you so much for saying that i am learning from all of you too.- I had to laugh because your comment of “You are good, very, very good- reminded me of Dinero talking to Billy crystal in Analysis This-LOL
CC from MI- hello again- I too respect Blink and her work- and I still have not came to the conclusion that the 3 are innocent or guilty and I am waiting for Part3 also…
Thanks so much for sharing CC- you have made an impact here with one post- so keep them coming.
xara! There you are I was worried you went off to lurk forever- glad you are still here.
TGF- hi thanks for your thoughts- always keeping me thinking… so if the water was that cold- then the little boys could have succumbed to hypothermia too?
AJMO
Hi SusanM, Lucy and Blink. Re: what Jesse said about the three being in the water — it is clear he was talking about what they were doing before the little boys showed up. The quote from the police report is “After all meeting on the road, the three boys walked to the woods and were sitting in the water with Jason and Damion “going under,” Jessie said he could not go under because of his ear problem.” The next sentence is “The three young boys were seen from a distance when Damion told Jessie and Jason to hide. Jessie said they were hiding behind bushes when Damion grabbed Michael Moore.” It seems obvious to me that Jesse was describing the chronology of events leading up to the crime, and not the cleanup afterward. Is it logical that they would be lolling around in 60 degree water, completely submerging themselves, while fully dressed no less? (I assume fully dressed because in other confessions Jesse states that Jason and Damien unzipped their pants to assault the boys.) Like I said above, discrepancies in Jesse’s accounts don’t bother me. He was drunk, it was chaotic, he was frightened. But this does not sound like honest confusion to me. It sounds like a total fabrication. It is inherently unbelievable, and for me taints the rest of his confessions. Trust me, I have not become a WM3 supporter. But I am much more skeptical than I was before reading this particular confession. Awaiting Part III!
Hi Morgan- i know i said id wait till you posted part 2 but if its okay- I will give my thoughts now?
First, let me say that your post gave me much to think about and much to research- thank you very much for sharing the things that keep you from moving from guilty to on the fence or for that matter toward the innocence of the 3-
I think I may be able to at least get you to want to rethink some things- I know your post enabled me to find out some things I didnt know.
I am gonna try to break up my response, as I tend to go on and on-
so
Heres Prt 1- re: Morgan says:
September 19, 2011 at 8:19 am
- You wrote that you had considered Bojangles- I do not know what made you “abandon” him, but for me, the fact that the blood swabs were lost and never tested- makes me unable to eliminate him totally from any scenario– one in which he stumbled onto the crime scene or the murders to one in which- he may have committed them or took part in them with a group of drifters/transients or other. The question seems to surround whether or not a drunken and or stoned and or sick drifter would be able to commit the crimes- and why he would not wash off at the creek ect-
Well many a murder has been committed by a drunken person and many more have been committed while under the influence of a drug.
Besides no one knows what his demeanor was at the time of the murders- perhaps he was a heroin addict that didnt shoot up until close to or after the murders- or perhaps he committed the murders when he was in a blackout state- afterall many drug addicts and dry drunks, or mentally ill people are homeless/ drifters and do not take their meds- or go on a binge- ect.. and are the type that blackout drinking, drugging, or while not on meds… perhaps he murdered them in such a state?… then wandered off- only to “come to” covered in blood near the chicken place- and the sight of the blood and no remembrance of the hours before, made him sick and caused him to mutter to himself over and over and immediately seek out a restroom to wash up…Since he was never identified and the blood was never tested we’ll never know the truth of Bojangles.
I have not researched Mr Byers, so I cant really comment yet to give an informed opinion- other than to say- I did read that he had his teeth pulled and lied/or couldnt remember when -supposedly he also had several reasons for having them pulled…the one that I took notice of was reading that he said Tegretol caused his teeth to become decayed- well I happen to know for a fact- that Tegretol does have this side effect with some people.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts Morgan- and thanks for caring to want to read mine
AJMO
Cont in part2
Re: Mr Byers Teeth Extraction
Having worked with disabled adults receiving State Medicaid(Medicaid the insurance of last resort) I can attest that the only dental benfit provided was teeth extraction. My understanding is that if a person has severly infected or decayed teeth the collective bad bacteria can cause systemic sepsis, a blood poisioning.
http://www.advertisingcrossing.com/article/170042/Left-untreated-tooth-decay-can-take-a-life/
Thereby, if Mr Byers had decayed teeth, was receiving AK “Medicaid” due to low income or disability his only option to control his dental disease and save his health may have been extraction. Even with Company insurance most likely there was no dental plan, again, leaving extraction as the least costly and most viable option.
I agree, and I should note he has been on disability since before the murders. He was a paid informant for police for a time, and receiving methadone treatments, so it is a safe bet he had the usual teeth damage.
B
Hi Morgan- Here is Prt 2 my response to your well thought out and very thought provoking post-
THE LAKE KNIFE-
You linked to a pic of that knife and a quote from jivepuppy-
BTW that knife looks mighty awful-
The lake knife has nothing to do with these murders and Damien stated on the stand- just like Deana that he had a similar knife but not one just like that-
Anyway JB came forward with Domini’s statement because it proved that this knife was not the murder weapon- up till then the prosecution was saying it was…Domini BTW had a knife taken from her home also…
KIM Jesse in his confession he says that Damien didnt have a knife there, and that JB was the one to cut the face and the genitals- although he kept saying they did this they did that- and once or twice said I beat them…I think his confessions are just as CC said- “It gives me the impression that Jesse was making up details as he spoke, without thinking them through.”
Jason Crosby-
Heres the actual drawing of the knife that JC described noticed no serrated edge:
http://callahan.8k.com/images/j_crosby/knife_drawing_11-18-93.jpg
Now Jason Crosby there is a very interesting witness with very interesting things to say, to very interesting people, and with very interesting friends.
First for those that say Damien was a loner with no friends- it seems this boy was pretty good friends with Damien and Jason and even Jesse…. These boys- had sleep overs- and went to eachothers houses- ( sleepover says JB and DE together and not sure if Jesse was there those times- they met at a good neighbor group meeting. JC considered them friends- they once were almost jumped together- while walking home from a football game by a gang of thugs…
Yep seems damien and jason also went to football games-
All that changed though after his friends became suspects – he was over damiens 2 days before DE was arrested- with DE whole family in attendance. So it seems the rumors didnt scare him and he in his statements he says they werent devil worshipers- and he had a knife, the one which damien seems to describe during his testimony and Deana too- JC had it for over a year in his truck on the dashboard- left by DE one night after hanging out with JC and the girls… he didnt talk to his principle about that knife though, he didnt call LE about that knife either- he gave it to reporter Paul Morrison- and he and his mother said they would have no problem getting it back from the man, as they had become rather close and had his # readily available… as for that statement you linked to :
On November 18th, the day after the discovery of the Lake Knife, Jason Crosby made a statement to the police wherein he said he had a knife stolen from him about one year in the past. He said he confronted Jason Baldwin about stealing the knife and said Jason told him he had traded the knife and a trench coat to a relative for a bicycle. The knife was in many ways similar to the Lake Knife. He described the knife as about 14 inches long, with a black handle and a screw cap and a small storage compartment. It was said to have a hump or curve in the blade and had the brand name “Fury” on the blade next to the handle.-
——-
Its wrong Morgan-
according to the documents on callahans- Jason C- told the principal a totally different account- in June and gave his statements in Sept- KIM JC later said he never said these things to Principal- but his statement to the him- seems to quote much of the same language as Jesse —killed dogs and ate “the meat” and notice this statement is typed and not signed by JC and notice “satin” and Michael Echols- you know ME- But you know what else? JC says that JM stole his bike and he stole it back and JM wanted to beat him up because of it-interesting story.
http://callahan.8k.com/images/j_crosby/mjh_statement_06-04-93.jpg
In his statements to police he that damien and JB said a year before the murders while they wee walking that they would like to torture a bum- but also added that (PP)they often joked about offputting things it was their thing…
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/jcrosby.html
Why would this friend of DE and JB go to the principal and lie? and why would he make up the story about this knife behind the cabinet- that he actually got from a different friend- and in no way was this knife related to DE and JB or the murders- although there were fibers microscopically similar to DE shirt and JB toilet seat cover…I know it makes you rethink the whole fiber evidence debate huh? why make it sound like JB must have put the knife there? Especially when he gave an actual knife of damiens to the reporter you know the one that was on the Geraldo show the one that was fired or asked to resign or left cause they wanted to reassign him because he had got to close to the case?
heres some pics of the reporter and DE house–
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img2/d_echols_paul_m.html
Here are some of the other knives that were taken into evidence- along with a close up of the lake knife-
http://www.jivepuppi.com/jivepuppi_knives_1.html
AJMO cont in part 3
Fwiw, as you know, I do not believe Baldwin’s knife was used in this crime, and I also believe there is some missing informant information as to the intel that led to it, especially if one reviews the hand drawn maps.
I also believe Damien owned a similar knife, with a camo handle. Both are survival knives, and dual edged with a turned up point in the front. If anyone has ever had the extreme displeasure of reviewing lacerations vs. stab wounds, they are very different in appearance, and of course, in the wounds they inflict.
B
CC from MI says:
September 19, 2011 at 11:17 pm thanks for sharing your thoughts-
Morgan and all- part 2 PS
Im sorry I failed to include the statement from Carl Appling,the friend that actually brought the knife to school, and with JC placed the knife behind the cabinet- you know the one that JC was so worried about with the murders and everything and knowing the accused…
Here it is very interesting statement- IMO
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/appling.html
Morgan I will continue with my responses tomorrow- thanks again for asking for my opinions and for bringing so much to the discussion- I await your part 2
AJMO
Xara says:
September 19, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Xara, here’s the link to the timeline, finally! It was originally posted by one LisLis who I have found to be most thorough in his/her research.
http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=3542.0
Mom3.0 says:
September 19, 2011 at 11:22 pm
You up and did it again, Mom3! lol You caused me to look back upon all of the reasons I once believed the WM3 to be innocent! Mr. Bojangles was one of those reasons, and I have been meaning to do further research on him. I’m not so sure he wasn’t a transient who lived in the woods and who stumbled upon something he shouldn’t have, be it a Mark Byers or the WM3 and was thereafter accosted but got away. Perhaps there was a warrant out for his arrest which would explain his failure to inform authorities of what he’d seen and why he was bloodied. This makes sense to me, but as I said, I never got back to him but thought that more careful scrutiny of JMB’s timeline and his (Bojangle’s) appearance might produce something. There was a hair of a person of color found, iirc, as well as there was a red fiber found on that blasted Kershaw knife, that never made it into evidence nor was it tested, along with blood that was consistent with his own and Christopher’s. That knife that had not ever been used until it suited Byers to remember using it to trim venison and his toenails. I don’t take these things lightly and was torn by the preponderance of the evidence, on both sides of the fence, for a good long time.
As for Byers:
One of the things that impressed me the most was the way in which the boys were bound. All three of them, hand to foot. This scenario plays out over and over again in my mind. My father, along with many of my uncles, were/are hunters. They’ve hunted everything from pheasant to bear. Some still do. Having seen what I’ve seen I am vehemently opposed to hunting for sport, finding it egotistic and murderous. But, that’s just me. If my kids were hungry, I’d be the first one out there, for sure. Guns and knives and good old boys drinking it up in dilapidated hunting camps was a childhood norm. The deer never came to us splayed over the hood of a car or pickup truck, but bled, gutted and bound – bound, just as Christopher, Stevie and Michael were. My first thought then, when I saw the photographs was “the killer’s a hunter”. To affirm this suspicion not only did I reflect back on the past but searched the net for the various ways in which victims of murders are most commonly bound, and thereafter decided that it would make more sense for the boys to have bound hand to hand and foot to foot, rather than in the manner in which they were, which makes it easier for HUNTERS to transport their kill, and though at least one of the WM3 (Jesse Misskelly) may have accompanied his father on hunting expeditions, I didn’t find it likely that Damien did, nor Jason for that matter, so what would they know about how to dress and prepare prey for ease of handling and transport?
To make matters worse, as far as I was concerned, regarding Byers, he was always in front of the cameras, putting on his shows, making too much noise, and quite often in the background were all of the deer heads he took such great pride in, proving himself to be a quite competent hunter. Only a suspect (as JMB was) with a mental deficiency would relish the thought of being filmed with his kill hanging on the walls behind him, in my humble opinion. To further that point there are numerous videos of Byers brandishing his guns and like a madman. Then too, came the matter of the knife Byers insisted had not ever been used only to have changed his story once he became suspect.
Byers did a lot of things once he became suspect. He began to make a whole lot more noise, as one whose intention is to distract or deflect attention away from himself, going so far as to implicate Hobbs and align himself with the WM3, and let’s not even go into Melissa’s mysterious death that is to this day unresolved and still under investigation, as far as I know. It further troubled me that though so many could scream injustice when it came to Cword, most seemed to jump on the exonerate Byers bandwagon, though he had beaten Christopher bloody and was looking to beat him again, which plays well into motive.
Tegretol was the ruination of my brothers teeth. He’s in the process of having them pulled now. Due to a heart condition they can’t pull them all at once. He’s a good ole Alabama boy. Deep South laid back, seemingly hicky, but brilliant. His only draw back, he’s suffered seizures since being struck by a truck while walking home from a store several years back.
But which is it with Byers? Were his teeth knocked out as he has so often said, or was it the Tegretol? Would it be possible to make a mold of the teeth he had, gap included, from photographs in order to compare the bite mark to Byer’s original bite? I guess anything’s possible, but would such evidence hold up in court?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Jj7z7qACI
http://vanessawest.tripod.com/byersint.html
JMB: Ahhhh, the burglary charge when I was in the mountains was dismissed and dropped.
LG: There was a bite mark on one of the boys. The three teenagers were asked for dental impressions, as were you, they willingly volunteered. And you, as I understand, mysteriously had your teeth knocked out before you could give an impression.
JMB: No, I didn’t mysteriously have my teeth knocked out.
LG: What happened?
JMB: In 1990, when I was starting to have seizures and realized something was going wrong in my body, for 18 months they treated me for epilepsy. And the medication for seizures was Tegretol and Tegretol causes the [unintelligible] disease which eats your gums away from your teeth. I had been in a car wreck a year or so after that, my teeth were just, they were terrible. I couldn’t live with ’em and I had to have them all surgically removed. It wasn’t anything mysterious and I’ve never had anyone contact me and ask me to give any dental records.
The fact that Byers is such a liar didn’t help matters any. The lie detector test he passed wasn’t valid. He’d arranged that. Besides he was medicated to the hilt at the time so any result would be inconclusive. I could on and on about all of the reasons I had for suspecting Byers, and why I still would if I hadn’t, like you, suffered through Callahan8 and became engrossed in Blink’s assessments. I believe now that there was an occultist element to the killings, but not a sacrifice or anything really ritualistic. If there was candle wax, and I believe there was, it came as an afterthought. If there was blood letting and devouring, as I believe there was, it was routine rather than something ceremonial. I don’t buy the predation for the simple reason that not even turtles are so precise.
As always, I look forward to your response, but for the time being, my girls are demanding my attention and I do have to be at work by 3:00.
Enjoy your day.
If Blink doesn’t post part 3 soon, these comments are going to go into the 1,000 mark and the thing is gonna be analyzed over and over and my brain is gonna burst out of my cranium! Lol! (No offense to posters). So Blink, any estimation when part 3 will be coming?
No, but I promise to try, although we are really discussing portions of it upfront to a degree. I cannot discuss the why or the how or the what, but I was called into a case with a specifically convened grand jury and I have had to devote all my waking energies to it, I apologize. In this case, I am also mulling some alternative directions following conversations in the legal community who are considering throwing hats in the ring, so to speak, so my head is on a permanent spin cycle. Again, I apologize for being vague, I am under obligation to do so, and I regret I feel a bit like I invited everyone to the big party and am asking you all to leave early because I got a secret phone call in the den, lol. This is not the case, i promise.
Thanks for the patience
B
Thanks, Blink for the response and update. Your reasons for the delay sound very intriguing and I am looking forward to the next article and I will be patient. : )
mom 3.0, re: the alcohol , i did say “in my theory”, fact: mm ‘s tox reveals ,0.01% ethyl alcohol,ethyl is the drinking variety, pasted from the autopsy: The alcohol detected is probably the result of decomposition. note the word probably, i wish jessie had been asked alot of questions ,that he wasnt ,like if they offered the boys the beer , or if jessie’s idea of a good time messin with scouts was gettin em to drink, or if the .01% couldve passed from beer drinkin urine being introduced into the system. pss,mom3.0, i get it that your calling me out for ‘overly’ fully committing to me theories,like im sayin its gospel,i am actually open to any theories,lisa allen , iagree with something you said and wanted to respond as well , but i am a little behind and tryin to catch up. mom 3.0 i dont get the vicki conspired a confession with jessie angle though ,is her only testimony ,at jessie’s trial ,about the esbot,and meeting damien? nothing about a reward angle , except her friend ,who said she heard her say she wanted that reward. i just dont think it flies, i am not finding anywhere where she says she worked up a confession with jessie,she says jessie’s involment blindsided her and aaron,she had no idea. i am mulling over this and other variations .
http://www.jivepuppi.com/evidence_the_clothes.html here are photos of detective ridge in the water , although it is daytime and the sun is visisble on the water ,he is not wearing any special clothing and by appearance seems to be lingering in the water ,and not in any hurry to get out,what would the water degree change be from 7;00pm to afternoon?and when/how/where was the water degree ,reported?
Good Point actually, you just jogged my lagging memory, lol. Bryn Ridge was in that water for over 45 minutes straight up to his what-what.
B
Blink, Hello yes youre correct-
Thanks – for that info-
Damien did say he owned a knife like that at one time- camouflaged handle ect.
Seems there were any number of knives in that little town,- being traded and sold and bought privately and even at the flea market- and as JC said damien left behind a knife with him…so it seems like damiens knives like everyoneelses, could have been lost or traded or sold ect.
So who can say one way or another whose knife was the murder weapon- It does seem that JC was determined to cloud the knife issue though, by outright lying- about the one at school-
Jcs statement was very informative- he seemed to know them and like them- except for Jesse- so I dont understand his motivations- Especially when he did not seem to want to lie IRT other encounters…such as being there at the skating rink that night- when DE and JB were supposed to have been overheard saying they did it- He said that they did talk about the murders and that Damien was talking about being hounded by the police- and being suspect # 1 which seemed to make JB very sad.
He also knew Steve Jones and his description of him is very telling IMO the cop who over sees “the little people” and it seems Steve Jones was also quite acquinted with Jesse- in the years prior- regarding his truancy leading up to dropping out- which was new info to me…
Anyway- The knife/s
Everyone seemed to have a fixation about knives and seemed to collect them- IIRC an old knife was even found in the drainage ditch when it was drained?
No shortage of knifes as illustrated by the # LE confiscated and compared.
-But it seems all were discarded as the murder weapon. So what happened to it? IDK
I cant imagine how LE dealt with this- so many knives to consider…
Katt thank you for sharing that insight with us regarding medicaid ect.-
AJMO
Morgan Susan and all- I will try to get back to respond tonight= real lbusy- I apologize for leaving you hanging.
BBL
“Again, I apologize for being vague, I am under obligation to do so, and I regret I feel a bit like I invited everyone to the big party and am asking you all to leave early because I got a secret phone call in the den, lol. This is not the case, i promise.”
No, it’s like the phone call was from the caterer and we’re all drinking flat wine and warm beer, trying to decide whether to go home and order pizza or wait for the possibility that the good stuff is going to show up before we all get plastered.
But we like you anyhow.
LOL LOL. Like you back, I recommend a light plastering.
Kidding, thanks
B