The West Memphis Series Part II: Guilty By Plea And Have Been Set Free
Jonesboro, AR- In a shocking development, four days following the first installment of the West Memphis Three on www.blinkoncrime.com, on August 19, 2011 Damien Echols, Charles Jason Baldwin and Jessie Miskelley, through an Alford plea, were convicted of three counts of first degree murder following an agreement made by Prosecutor Scott Ellington and their respective defense attorneys for the murders of eight year old boys James Michael Moore, Christopher Byers ( Murray) and Stevie Branch.
Judge David N. Laser agreed to and imposed suspended sentences for time served to Echols, Miskelley and Baldwin; all were released and immediately declared their innocence during the ensuing press conference.
In Part I of our series, we touched briefly on the development of new evidence and possible murder weapon, the blue handled- mountain ice axe, which inexplicably was never presented at trial. It had been admitted into evidence after being retrieved from its owner, following it’s return by Jason Baldwin’s, younger brother Mathew.
Requests to confirm whether or not the ice axe was maintained in evidence at West Memphis Police Department were non-responsive at the time of this publication. Part II continues first with what the jury never heard. A podcast of my interview on the case following the release of the WM3 can be found here.
Premature Illumination
One of the larger points of contention in the murders was the lack of blood evidence at the scene. The lack of blood or blood spatter at the scene with such gruesome injuries spawned the defense theory the ditch was a dump site or secondary crime scene. This was largely due to the fact that the jury would never hear about the results of luminol tests; it was suppressed by motion of the defense In both trials.
Luminol enhanced chemiluminesence (LCL) technology in 1993 was geared toward examining items of evidence in a lab under black light for optimum photographic results, or its secondary application for use in an enclosed environment which can be manually darkened and a portable black light ( we now call this an alternative light source or ALS) brought to the scene.
LCL when sprayed onto a surface containing remnants of blood, or more specifically the iron in blood, will create a glowing reaction when iron, invisible to the naked eye, is present.
In 1993 under Arkansas law, Luminol testing was considered new, novel, and not accepted as scientific evidence.
While the methods for collection, testing and controls have advanced significantly since 1993 and LCL testing is widely used in criminal case work, analysis of the findings in the instant case flatly dispute the notion that there was no blood associated with the crime scene along the ditch bank of Robin Hood Hills.
Contrary to the misconception that there was no evidence of blood at the scene, the results of two consecutive days of luminol tests at the scene were enlightening.
As Kermit Channell and Donald Smith, from the Arkansas crime lab could not bring the “outside in” they were forced to set up shop in the woods along the banks of the ditch. Also present for testing both days were WMPD Detectives Mike Allen, Tony Anderson and Bryn Ridge.
Donald Smith’s report below in it’s entirety below, The other reports can be found here.
STATE CRIME LABORATORY
P.O. Box 5274
Number 3 Natural Resources Drive
Little Rock, Arkansas 72215
REPORT OF LABORATORY ANALYSIS
Investigating Officer / Agency / Address
Sgt. Mike Allen
West Memphis Police Department
100 Court Street
West Memphis, AR 72301
Laboratory Case Number: 93-05717
Date Received in Lab: 05/07/93
How Evidence Received: M E / Matthew Elliott
Agency Case Number:
Suspect (s):
Victim (s):
Steve Edward Branch
Date of Report; 06/10/93
FIELD INVESTIGATION. WEST MEMPHIS TRIPLE HOMICIDE. MAY 12 and
MAY 13. 1993 LUMINOL:
This analyst and Kermit Channell, Serologist responded to request to perform luminol on
a potential crime scene area on May 12, 1993. We left that afternoon, arriving in West
Memphis at approximately 6:30 P.M., proceeding to the Police Department.
Officers Tony Anderson, Brian Ridge, and Mike Allen accompanied Kermit and myself
to a swampy area in the northern edge of West Memphis where the victims were found.
A general survey of the area in the daylight hours was conducted. Approaching darkness
fresh solutions of luminol reagent were prepared. When the area became dark, using
flashlights for light support, the part returned to the area and proceeded to spray and
locate areas of luminol light emission activity, a presumptive test for the presence of
trace quantities of blood. The following observations were noted:
(1) At a trail along a stream bed an approximately 11 foot high bluff overlooking the
stream positive reactions were noted on either side of a tree with more reaction noted to
the right side of the tree, facing the stream bed.
(2) An Area with used plastic sheeting west of the trail and the bluff gave more positive
reactions were noted.
(3) At the west bank of the stream bed, to the right of some trees, an area gave positive
reaction. It was explained by the Police Department that this was where two of the
victims were placed when they were recovered from the stream bed.
(4) In the stream bed, below the described (at one time) water line, positive luminol tests
indicated where one of the victims was found in the water as related by the West
Memphis Police Department.
(5) On the east bank of the stream bed were a pile of sticks and a depression in the soil
where luminol tests showed a concentrated area of positive reaction.
[PAGE 2]
(6) North of this point luminol tests gave positive reaction to a large area of
concentration (described by West Memphis Police Department where the third victims
was placed upon recovery from the water).
(7) North of the point #6 near some tree roots, another large area of concentration of the
luminol reaction was noted.
(8) Trace amounts of positive luminol reaction was noted on the slope west of the area
where two of the victims were recovered and placed. (reference area #3). The areas north
and south of where the third victims had been placed (5) and (6) were unaccountable
known activity by the Memphis Police Department or rescue / recovery operations.
From these areas of noted luminol reactions for the presumptive presence of trace
amounts of blood the following opinion is rendered:
The traces of presumed blood detected along the trail (2), and at the bluff (1), and one the
slope (8) appear to be transfer of blood by the rescue and recovery teams.
Reaction in the areas where the recovered victims were placed is the apparent result of
trace blood transfer from the victims (3) and (6).
The area below the water level on the west side of the stream was accounted as where
trace amounts of the victimís blood diffused into the mud in the stream bed.
The areas (5) and (7) indicate activity prior to recovery of the victims and relate to
activity to the victims when perhaps they were being attacked.
It should be noted that the luminol testing was performed some days after the discovery
of the victims and at least one rainfall had occurred. There were no visible signs or
indication of blood at any of the locations that we investigated.
[PAGE 3]
Upon the group returning that night to the police headquarters Inspector Gitchell and his
staff were advised of our findings. It is our opinion the crime had taken place where the
bodies of the victims were recovered. Inspector Gitchell was further advised of the
inability to document the luminol reaction of the evening because of the light leaks from
stars and the back scattered light from West Memphis. To document the luminescence
Inspector Gitchell was advised that we would have to place tenting over the areas of
interest and to block out all stray light possible.
The luminescence requires near total darkness to document luminol reactions in the open
field.
It was decided that Kermit and I should stay over the next day perform the tests again
and photograph them.
The morning of May 13, Inspector Gitchell provided us with equipment, supplies and
manpower needed to document the areas of positive luminol reaction. A test with plastic
covering over the canvas was erected and photographs were taken of the positive areas
noted of the previous evening again with fresh luminol application.
Because of the limitations due to some light leakage, physical activity in the area
destroying some of the reaction, the weather conditions of some light rain the night
before and the originally low concentration levels in the areas on the bluff (area #1), along
the trail (area #2), where the victims were placed (area #3), and the area in the stream bed
where the body was recovered (area #4) and the area above the recovery area (area #8)
we were not able to document photography as we observed these areas the evening of
May 12.
The tented area over the areas where the victim’s body was placed (#6) and the
questioned area (#5), subdued the light to a degree that a less than perfect photograph
could be obtained. These photographs still documented the areas of interest, showing
luminol reaction in respective areas. These photographs were without the benefit of flash
painting application to reference the areas photographed. A still photo of the questioned
area from the original camera tripod location does reference the questioned area. The
photographs were processed revealing the luminol reaction at areas where the victim was
place (#6) and the questioned area (#5)
[PAGE 4]
The tent was moved and photographs were taken of the questioned area by the tree root (#7). Photographs of the areas (#4, #5 and #6) with surveyor flags mounted were taken to reference those areas tested and photographed. All photographs were left with Inspector Gitchell.
[signed] Donald E. Smith, Criminalist
Soil samples were submitted on May 14, 1993, but for unknown reasons not tested until 4 months later, and did not react to the luminol.
The result was considered inconclusive as it was not likely to detect blood from a four month old soil sample in the first place.
Although the luminol reaction results were not admissible in the trials, for analysis purposes, it tells an irrefutable story. The obvious counter-argument could only be that investigators were new to the technique, some of the initial testing was unable to be photographed, or to any conspiracies, that detectives simply made up results for some purpose.
However, as none of the investigators present had the autopsy results prior to the testing, and most certainly did not have Jessie Miskelley’s “account” to draw from, outside of the known injuries and other more circumstantial evidence in this case, these findings certainly further support there were multiple perpetrators in this crime- and that it all went down right there.
In 1998, Damien Echols filed a Rule 37 hearing for causes of incompetent counsel and due to his “actual innocence.” Jessie Miskelley lost his appeal to overturn his conviction also in 1998, but It was not until 2008 that Baldwin and Miskelley filed their Rule 37 petitions. For purposes of evaluation, I am including affidavits , exhibits and testimony excerpts from some of the expert witnesses at all three hearings and subsequent related appearance spanning from 1998- 2008.
Brent Turvey, of Knowledge Solutions, LLC trained under renowned blood spatter expert Dr. Henry Lee, did not consider any of the luminal reports when hired by Dan Stidham in 1998 for his expert opinion in his representation of Jessie Miskelley requesting a new trial. Turvey’s report found (here) was largely the impetus for future defense experts for all three defendants to “weigh in”.
While Turvey’s work was largely unsupported once his infamous “bitemark” was debunked and he bought into the “Baldwin knife” which has since been abandoned by all subsequent defense experts, as the first guy up at bat so to speak, his testimony demonstrated the burgeoning direction to the CSI Effect the West Memphis Three would take toward their ultimate freedom.
I explore Turvey’s initial observations taken directly from his report, in the beginning of each unique victim’s autopsy segment, followed by updated relevant expert information and my subsequent analysis.
Autopsy By Coroner- Autopsy By Proxy
In the interest of brevity, I intend to focus on the dissenting views of the experts, and I stipulate that in no report that I have reviewed, was there evidence of sodomy or object penetration of any of the boys.
While I believe Dr. Perretti’s prior experience with cases that involved same did form his opinion on the possibility as it relates to some of the injuries, I do not believe that such testimony should have been permitted at trial, nor would it be permitted today.
Memphis Triple Homicide May 5, 1993
James M. Moore #ME-329-93
Steve E. Branch #ME-330-93
Chris M. Byers #ME-331-93
LOCATION: On May 6th, 1993, all three victims were found, bound wrist to ankle with shoe laces, in the water of a drainage ditch, in a heavily wooded area called the Robin Hood hills, behind the Blue Beacon Truck Wash in West Memphis, Arkansas. An equivocal forensic examination of all available crime scene and autopsy photos, crime scene video, investigator’s reports, witness statements, family statements, autopsy reports and numerous other sources to be listed as referenced in the endnote section of this report. The purpose of this preliminary examination was to competently assess the nature of the interactions between the victims and their environments as it contributed to their deaths as indicated by available forensic evidence, and the documentation regarding that evidence.
James M. Moore
James Michael Moore autopsy found here.
The following forensic information is taken directly from the official autopsy report filed by Dr. Frank J. Peretti of the Arkansas State Crime Lab, Medical Examiner Division, dated 5-7-93, Case No. ME-329-93 and/ or from The official coroner’s report filed by Kent Hale, Crittenden County Coroner, dated 5-6-97.
The purpose of this section is not to present an all inclusive, detailed account and explanation of every piece of information in these reports, but rather to explore these reports, with the corresponding photos, for consistency, possible omissions, and to review injuries or patterns that this examiner deemed to be significant to the case.
Wound Pattern Analysis
This victim received more traumatic head injuries than any of the other victims in this case. Dr. Peretti states that defense wounds were present on the victim’s hands. These wounds were very few, indicating that victim was incapacitated quickly after the attack began. So the nature of these head injuries, and the limited defensive type wounds, combine to indicate sudden, forceful, and repeated blows that resulted in abraded contusions, multiple lacerations, and multiple skull fractures.
There is an unexplained directional pattern abrasion just below the victim’s right anterior shoulder area.
This unexplained injury does not correspond with any of the physical evidence collected at the location that victim was discovered. It is furthermore inconsistent with any of the naturally occurring elements that exist in that environment. The best conclusion that this examiner can reach is that this pattern abrasion was created by forceful, directional contact with something that was not found at that crime scene, whether it be a weapon, a surface or something else capable of creating that pattern.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did not leave deep furrows, and also did not leave abrasions. This indicates that the victim was not struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much unconscious when the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiners opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
When compared to the other two victims in this case, who were found at the same location, bound nude with shoelace ligatures in the same fashion, the most striking discrepancy is the lack of injuries suffered by this victim. In the crime scene and autopsy photos made available to this examiner, there were no readily discernible bite marks visible, the genitals have not been visibly disturbed or molested, and there are no discernible stab wounds. This lack of attention is very telling, and will be discussed in the Offender Characteristics section of this report. There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Analysis: I find the statement that he had the least amount of injuries, yet the most severe head injuries in dire conflict, as he died from multiple injuries, and drowning. The fractures to his head and lacerations to his left and front right skull were enough to cause his death within minutes on their own, and there can be no doubt that he received them while he was already unconscious because of the lack of injury at the ligature sites. There is very little hemorrhage involvement with the open lacerations, and all lacerations were abraded; one with a dovetail and upside down L producing an ovid fracture. In Jesse Miskelley’s confessions, he says one of them was moving as he was put in the water while he was leaving. I believe the reason he never mentioned that Michael Moore was beat about the head with an instrument of some kind is because he never saw that. Michael was located in the ditch just below the oak with the exposed root that had the luminol result “shaped like a V”, which would be consistent with him struggling to get out of that water, on that bank, with a cast off or blood spatter pattern consistent with someone beating him toward the bank and in front of that tree.
Mosquito bites: Only females take a blood meal, so that potentially reduces the population by 50%, and at no time will they bite a deceased person. They are attracted mostly by carbon dioxide, released from a breathing person. Both Dr. Haskell and Dr. Goff agreed to this ultimately.
What is further curious to me, is that while Turvey was hired by Miskelley, who confessed at least three times by the date of the generation of this report, does he not note the obvious discrepancy for the placement of Mike Moore upstream, or that he was found on his right side with the left side surfacing when in effect dislodged by Det. Mike Allen. Moore was also hogtied differently, with different knots than the other 2 victims, with ONE black shoelace. There is a reason that Turvey was not given Miskelley’s updated confession following his conviction, and instructed to disprove it; he would not have been able to.
Steven Edward Branch
Stevie Branch autopsy found here.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s face and head, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti, however, does not note the presence of extensive defensive wounds.
This indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The constellation of wounds are very similar to those inflicted on James Moore, however they are much more intense and include the victim’s face.
This level of attention paid to the victim’s face, in terms of depersonalization and rage, is indicative of familiarity and that will be explored later on in this report.
Furthermore, there is the existence of patterned injuries all over this victim’s face that could be bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis. [note: Dr. Thomas David, board certified forensic odontologist, has confirmed the wound as a human adult bitemark and excluded Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley as the offender using bite impressions obtained from the men in prison] Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting.
Another unidentified pattern compression abrasion can be found on the back of Steve Branch’s head. The source of this injury caused a 3? inch fracture at the base of the skull with multiple extension fractures that terminate in the foramen magnum (that’s the hole at the base of the skull where the spinal cord connects to the brain). Upon close examination, this pattern injury is consistent with compression made from footwear. Again, without better photos supplied to the examiner showing a variety of angles, it’s very difficult to make a positive identification of any kind. But the pattern is consistent with a footwear impression, and would require a footwear impression expert to analyze and make an informed, competent determination.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles. We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, as well as in the victim’s mouth, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts, again, suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiner’s opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
There is again a lack of evidence to support any sort of strangulation. Dr. Peretti states that his examination of the neck of this victim revealed no injuries, and the photos that this examiner has seen support that conclusion.
Analysis: He missed the wound to Stevie Branch’s penis entirely. While not contained in his formal autopsy report, it was proven during the trial that Dr. Peretti’s colleague was called into evaluate what Turvey was calling “bite marks” and was ruled out. The fact that bite impressions did not match Echols, Baldwin or Miskelley was in no way exculpatory, and I will save you the bite by some animal with a rough tounge report nonsense I had to read .
The 3” fracture at the base of the skull, which “spiderwebbed” into subsequent fractures, also very likely severed his spinal cord, so one must assume this injury was also quite perimortem.
Steve ‘s left face was found to be abraded on the entire left side, and is consistent with someone either stomping on right side of his neck and fracturing it, with an obvious boot print, if the left side of the face was on the ground.
The gouging wounds- likely had to be inflicted following the fracture due to the lack of hemorrhage in comparison to the severity of the wound, and all experts agreed the injury was likely perimortem. So the question becomes- why?
Seems like a very important question, second only to what caused the trauma, based on the constellation of terminal injuries already inflicted on him. Wouldn’t the only thing left to do at that point be to submerge him?
It is my theory- therein lies the problem. Byers was put in the ditch first, and we know he was already deceased, therefore, he sinks. Stevie Branch is placed in the water next to him, and he either begins moving or floats and the suspects thinks he is still alive, and uses an implement to force him into the ditch bottom until he succumbs and stays submerged. I will leave out the specifics of the gouging wound as to why I think that resulted in the usage of the other end of the ice axe on Michael Moore. The luminol result, found in the ditch bed itself, after it was drained, slightly downstream from Byers and Branch, but still upstream from Moore could also support this theory. We know that Byers had already bled out, but Branch was still alive when he was put into the water and the only significant bleeding wound on his person capable of leaving blood evidence in the bottom of the ditch to survive it simply being washed away in the creek, there is a high degree of probability he bled directly into the dirt. He was found face down.
Christopher Byers
Christopher Byers autopsy found here.
It should be noted that this victim’s injuries were the most extensive, most violent, and most overtly sexual of the all the victims in this case. The nature and extent of this victim’s wounds indicate that the assailant spent the most time with this victim.
Additionally, this victim’s toxicology report revealed non-therapeutic levels of carbamazepine in the blood. All of these differences are very important, and will be explored in the later sections of this report.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s head, specifically to the base of the skull. There was also evidence of the violent emasculation of the victim’s sex organs, extensive lacerations and bruising to the victim’s buttocks, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti also noted that there were numerous healed injuries of varying nature on this victim. Dr. Peretti, however, did not note the presence of defensive wounds.
Again, this indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The general constellation of wounds to this victim is more advanced, more extensive, more overtly sexually oriented and includes the use of a knife.
This knife was used not only to inflict multiple stabbing and cutting injuries to the victim’s inner thighs and genital area, it was used in the emasculation process. There is, unmentioned in either the ME’s or Coroner’s reports, what appears to be a clear impression of the knife handle on the right side of the large gaping defect left behind after the removal of the victims penis, scrotal sac, and testes. This was impression was created when the knife was thrust full length into the victim by the assailant, during the process of emasculation. This indicates forceful, violent thrusts. The nature of this emasculation, as indicated by these wounds, is neither skilled nor practiced. It was a rageful, careless, but purposeful act carried out in anger.
It is the opinion of this examiner that this injury would have resulted in massive, uncontrollable blood-loss, from which the victim could not have survived without immediate medical attention.
It should also be pointed out that the nature of the stab wounds inflicted on the victim’s genital area, separate from those received during the emasculation process, show marked irregular configuration and pulling of the skin. This indicates that either the knife was being twisted as the assailant stabbed the victim, or that the victim was moving as the blade was withdrawn.
The second set of injuries is described as five superficial cutting wounds on the left buttock (pictured on the left in this photo at the right). It should be noted that these injuries are actually lacerations, as indicated by the bridging between the open tissue, and the irregular edges. Both indicators are apparent upon close examination of the photographs. It is the opinion of this examiner that this set of injuries is most consistent with the parental whipping given to Chris Byers by Mark Byers. It is further the opinion of this examiner that after having received this set of injuries, which tore open the skin and would have resulted in some severe bleeding, the victim would have been unable to walk or ride a bicycle without incredible pain and discomfort.
The third set of injuries is the multiple linear superficial interrupted cuts on the right buttock region (pictured in the photo above on the right). These injuries are not consistent with having been made by a belt as they are cuts. The edges are not irregular, and the cuts are interrupted, again indicating movement by the victim or the assailant during the attack.
Furthermore, there is the existence of bruised ovoid compression injuries all over this victim’s inner thigh that could be suction type bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis.
Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints and positively identify a suspect. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting. The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that this victim did not drown, that is to say that no hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, or well in the victim’s mouth. This indicates that the victim was already dead when he was placed into the 2? ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills. This is, again, very different from the other two victims in this case.
Dr. Richard Souviron forensic odontologist: all mutilation is peri and post mortem, no knife was used.
On a final note, Mr. Hale states in his supplemental report on Chris Byers that there is a stab wound on his head. This is actually incorrect, and rectified by Dr. Peretti who states in his autopsy report of Chris Byers that the same injury is a 1¼-inch laceration to the left parietal scalp.
There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Additionally, unlike Steve Branch, there is no overkill present in this victim’s face. That is to say that this is another of the marked differences between the killings of Steve Branch and Chris Byers which is very important to note, and which will be explored more thoroughly in this report.
Recommendations
It is apparent from the physical evidence in this case that Chris M. Byers was attacked with sudden, violent force from which he defended himself in only a limited fashion. It appears as though this attack took place, at least in part, while his cloths were off and while the shoelace ligatures restrained him. He was sexually assaulted (an assault of a sexual nature, to areas of the body considered to be sexual, that does not include sexual penetration), and associated stab wounds indicate that he may have been conscious during several phases of the attack.
Analysis: How does he miss that the dosage of (car) was sub therapeutic, meaning below the level at which he was described and confuse it as non-therapeutic, in his estimation, as a possible means to subdue him. He completely missed the fact that it is likely that the level, found in his blood, was greatly reduced because there was very little blood volume left in his body. AND, it was a prescribed medication. Turvey does not mention the other factors that support Byers died first, and he died quickly and violently. While he did have stomach contents, he did not have any urine in his blatter and there was substantative evidence his bowels had evacuated at the scene, commonly a result of an immediate violent death.
Consensus or Conundrum- Depends Who You Ask
Regardless of which expert one believes, within the confines of each report, is the absence of the belief with any certainty that the “Baldwin” serrated knife was used. What they all agree on, is that the gouging injuries to Branch and Byers were very similar. They all agree that there was evidence of blunt force trauma, significant curvilinear fractures, what is commonly referred to in Forensic Pathology today as “chop wounds”, other sharp force trauma.
Thoughts onPost Mortem Animal Predation
I agree it is possible that snapping turtles could have caused what looks to be possible claw marks and at least one possible bite mark. I am emphasizing possible because I don’t think one can rule out animal predation 100%
Bryn Ridge himself testified he has seen snapping turtles in that area, some time ago. That said, there was not so much as a crawfish found in that creek as it was being pumped out, and that included a screen.
Dr. Spitz went as far as to suggest that somehow a carnivore of some kind was the cause of the animal predation although all oter evidence suggests that the boys were completely submerged, as well as their clothing, and there was obviously no animal tracks or other artifacts at the scene that would make that theory sound anything remotely believable. Thankfully, he stopped short of suggesting that a new breed of homicidal carnivores with a cleaner crew who could walk upright was responsible.
Fortunately I Dressed For Bushwhacking
Starting with one of the most important parts of the autopsy evidence, is the very fact that detectives knew VERY LITTLE about it outside of the cause of death, until late May at the earliest. So little in fact, that Gary Gitchell, Lead Investigator, wrote a list of follow up questions to the crime lab on May 26. (need link here)
Frank J. Peretti, MD preformed all three autopsies on May 7, 1993, and filed reports on May 10th for cause of death only. Those causes of death btw, were all listed as homicide by multiple injuries, period. Nobody knew that two boys died from drowning, and not all three. This is particularly concerning because the first conversation that Steve Jones and Det Sudbury had with Damien Echols was on May 7th prior to autopsy and in his subsequent interview with Det Bryn Ridge on May 10, when asked by Ridge how he knew about that, Echols told Ridge that Jones told HIM that whoever did this “urinated” in the mouths of the boys.
Urine was found in the stomachs of 2 of the victims, but that information was given by phone only to Gitchell, and not before May 16th, 1993. There is no possible way Damien Echols could have had case- specific information unless he was there or knew someone that was that told him what occurred, as the detective interviewing him at the time was clueless to that fact during the interview.
There are certainly many statements by both Echols and Miskelley prior to arrest that indicate they had prior knowledge of the murders, but I have been able to ride the see saw on those for the most part, like many.
The fact that Echols knew that there was urine in the stomachs of two victims, when it was intentionally ommitted from the report can only mean he was there, or knew someone who was, and in my opinion, both.
To be continued, West Memphis Three Part III
Sources:
Crime lab Index: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/crimelab.html
Chris Byers autopsy:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html
Michael Moore:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autmm.html
Stevie Branch:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autsb.html
Turvey Report: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/b_turvey_profile.html
Related Posts
Related Posts:
1,388 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
30. Mom3.0 says:
September 23, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Graceinhills- hey I just wanted to say I appreciate all of your posts.
I found that link on temps ect to be very informative and I also wanted to say thanks for voicing your common sense opinions/facts- very interesting- please keep them coming.
AJMO
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mom3.0: Thank you for your kind words. I have always found your posts to be an absolute joy to read. Like Blink, you only express your opinions after painstaking research and careful, thoughtful analysis. Very, very impressive. I look forward to hearing more from you on all the BOC cases you are following.
Mom3.0 and other posters here at BOC: If you haven’t read this filing you may find it interesting:
http://wm3org.typepad.com/files/echolsmisconductbrief.pdf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: DE’s psychiatric records–I have read through all of the records contained in Exhibit 500. A quick observation: Some of the records contained in that exhibit are duplicated copies of the same hospital admission. Not sure why this is, but it resulted in an inflation in the number of pages in this exhibit.
Some of you, in your opinions, are under the impression that DE was diagnosed with a psychotic disorder or Bipolar Disorder. The records in this exhibit reflect that he was diagnosed by his treating psychiatrists with Adjustment Disorder during one admission and with Depression and/or Dysthymia during others. I did not see any evidence in these records that any psychiatrist ever diagnosed him with psychosis or Bipolar Disorder. He was never discharged on any antipsychotic medication, but was consistently treated with imipramine, an antidepressant commonly used around that time.
@Morgan: According to the records, DE was not treated with Lithium, Tegretol, Depakote or Zyprexa. Zyprexa was not introduced to the market until 1996, and Depakote was not indicated for the treatment of mania until 1995. Regardless, these medications are not prescribed for any patient unless there are clear indications for them. According to these records, there were no indications that would lead a psychiatrist to prescribe these medications for DE.
12. Ragdoll says:
September 22, 2011 at 4:33 pm
@ GraceintheHills says:
September 21, 2011 at 11:27 pm
Ragdoll says: I always found there to be a few grains of truth to his confessions. He’s not a text book witness but I don’t see how LE could right him off either. He did offer information that only the perps would know (running after one of the boys).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Ragdoll, good to hear from you!
In my experience, LE never writes off anyone who confesses to a crime, and they shouldn’t. But, I also strongly believe confessions should corroborate the evidence and known facts of the case. Confessions should also answer our questions regarding the details of why and how the crime was committed. In this case, JM’s confessions leave me with more questions than answers. Could it be that he is so intellectually impaired that he cannot give a more detailed statement? Perhaps. But, I did not get that impression when I listened to the audio recordings of him speaking with LE.
Irt JM knowing something about the crime that only one of the perps would know: It is my understanding that when LE speaks of this, they are speaking of something that can be corroborated by the evidence. For instance, if JM witnessed DE rip the top button off MM’s Boy Scout shirt prior to hitting him, and LE subsequently determined that the top button was indeed missing from MM’s shirt when the shirt was recovered at the scene, this would be a detail only the perp would know.
Thanks Krayon for bringing over the link and mentioning Joseph’s comments. I had read them sometime back . It appears to me that for 1993 there was plenty of forensic evidence in this case. I just hate that I spent 10+ years believing all the hoop-la. That’s also why I am grateful to have found this website. Unbiased research at it’s best! Thanks Blink!(:
Morgan says:
September 24, 2011 at 7:53 am
I got the impression that Damien’s parents thought he was a fragile child, both emotionally & physically. When Damien talks about his childhood, he gives off the impression that he was aware of his parents failures from early on and learned how to survive within his parameters. He knew they were simple minded & found them easy to manipulate.
(From “Almost Home”…timeframe was only a couple of years before the murders and was in reference to him wanting to go to Catholic Church)
“I knew Jack was the one that would have to agree to it, and I knew I had to tell him in a language he’d understand. So, one day I informed him that I felt I had a “calling” from God, and that I needed to find the place I was supposed to be. In the type of churches he attended, to say one had a “calling” meant that you were directly hearing God’s voice or feeling his presence, and that it was compelling you to do something. What they refer to as a “calling” could be looked at by the rest of the world as anything from intuition to a psychotic episode. Still, he understood, and if I felt God was telling me to do something, then Jack Echols would be the last to interfere. He may not have respected me, but he would
respect what he perceived to be “God’s will.”
When he asked where I wanted to go I knew I couldn’t just blurt out, “The Catholic Church,” because he would have looked at that suspiciously. Instead, I told him I thought it best if I went to different places, and that I’d know the right one when I found it. He nodded his head, and that was the end of the conversation.”
I’ve read the documentation about him having hallucinations, etc. from early on, but I’m hesitant to put much stock in that info as most of it came from Damien. I think this whole “mental illness” thing is just a card that Damien keeps in his back pocket to play when needed. Actually, I think the anti-depressant drugs he was getting (mixed with alcohol) helped cause the murder because he was taking them recreationaly when they weren’t necessary.
NOW…wow…where he’s at NOW is a different story. The murder, publicity, fame, the perpetuation of the lie. He’s a whole different animal now.
@Morgan
About the medication… Apparently he was on Imipramine (50 mg) at the time. http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/062.jpg
I don’t know anything about psych meds, but I’ve seen people state several times that Imipramine wasn’t the best medication for Echols’s disorders.
Krayon,
Echols would’ve had to be a damn good actor to fool all those mental health professionals. And for what, to be stuck in a hospital? How likely is it that he’d go to all that trouble for such a non-reward, and also have the acting chops and determination to pull it off, multiple times? I think going with Occam’s razor is the safest bet here.
I’d definitely like to hear from people who know this stuff about any possible side-effects or counter-effects of Imipramine when taken by a person with his particular disorders. But he definitely needed to be medicated with something.
Lucy says:
September 24, 2011 at 6:35 pm
That same medication Imipramine (aka Tofranil) was mentioned in this document (reference to Chris Byers)
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/b_turvey_profile.html
“On page two of that report, Dr. Eastmead gives three diagnosis’ of Chris condition: Encephalopathy demonstrated by Attention-Deficit Hyerpactivity Disorder; Intermittent Explosive Behavior; and Conduct Disorder (it should be noted that the onset of conduct disorder before the age of 15 is one of the primary requirements of the Anti-social Personality Disorder). Dr. Eastmead also states: ‘Chris is certainly a difficult child who may require in-hospital treatment to gain control of his behavior. I am increasing the medication and changing it to Dexidrine 5 to 10 mg morning and noon, 5 in the afternoon, as well as adding Tegretol (Carbamazepine) 50 to 100 mg t.i.d. Tofranil caused visual hallucinations, and this will not be tried.”
Caused visual hallucinations? Great. (kinda sounds like Dr. Eastmead already tried it huh?) How do you think it’d work taken with alcohol on a few teens with a weapons?
Hi, you say that it was Damien who gave the Police Jason’s name but my understanding from reading the docs on the Callahan site is that Damien’s response to the question about who could have done it referred to Jason Baldwin as opposed to Charles Jason Baldwin. There is an arrest record for that Jason Baldwin on the site and the height, weight and age are more consistent with the Jason Baldwin described in Damien’s questionnaire response than to his friend (Charles)Jason Baldwin. Very interesting and look forward to Part 3. Kind regards. Cindy
That is correct Cindy, that WAS Damien’s intent, but for reasons I can only surmise were related to either Juvie officer Steve Jones or Jerry Driver, the description on subequent notes matched Charles Jason Baldwin, who was with Damien and Domini at his Mom’s trailer on the 9th when Gail Grinnell ordered detectives off her property. Regardless, whether he meant to or not, it was the first time the name came up.
B
Does anyone know where Vicki Hutcheson’s son, Aaron, is today? His comments of being there and witnessing the crime were quite disturbing. If he could be found, maybe he could help with al of this. Just a thought.
As for the person who mentioned money helped these murderers walk away, I couldn’t agree more. Money can buy anything on earth. I believe the release of murderers was bought, I believe Byers was bought (sold out his son, which is deplorable), and no telling who else was bought in this money trail. When I think of the injustice of all of this, it is a comfort to know that money won’t help them when they meet their maker. This is when true justice will be served. Not to be all “bible belt” on my opinions, but I think most people do believe in a just God, whether it’s in the bible belt or not.
I agree with you Lisa, and I considered interviewing him, but it is my policy unlike MSM if I have seen evidence of emotional instability, I really am not comfortable approaching someone like that for obvious reasons. I considered doing the same with Matt Baldwin, but he was incarcerated in AZ at the time.
B
there is a recent interview with aaron, he says he cant remember exactly ,and he still wonders himself. i’ll find it.i dont understand,if anyone was paid for the documentary ,imdb, credits jessie as starring in part one and jason starring in part 2 ,so are they members of screen actors quild .the 10 million was collected for a defense fund ,but they used a pro bono lawyer for the plea? .how does son of sam play into any money?wouldnt they want to try to pay jessie off for his silence?
http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/they-messed-with-my-words/Content?oid=964537 ,here it is , i was wrong its not that recent ,2004, and he thinks john mark byers did it.
Blink, I posted info on Imipramine last night. Granted, it was late and I was tired, did I mess it too badly to post?
Lucy says:
September 24, 2011 at 7:56 pm
Damien was sent to the mental hospital at a time he’d thought he’d finally broke free of his surroundings and got away. He was literally ripped from the girl he loved, locked up & had no idea what they were doing to her. There’s no question in my mind that he was batsh*t crazy about it. That would make any guy look crazy but Damien and Deanna were into the occult so heap that up into the mix.
It would take Damien a while to gain his composure and play the game in order to get released. He does it tho. He makes it through, and what’s the first thing he does upon release? Call Deanna. He’s been sick with worry about her all this time. He’s still in “let’s run away” mode, he’s still on his mission, he’s still in love.
What’s Deanna do when he calls? Nothing. She’s done with him for good.
Yeah buddy…..fade to black…that was the day Damien completely died inside. Seriously, am I the only one who sees this? I find that hard to believe.
6. Lucy says:
September 24, 2011 at 7:56 pm
Krayon, Echols would’ve had to be a damn good actor to fool all those mental health professionals. And for what, to be stuck in a hospital? How likely is it that he’d go to all that trouble for such a non-reward, and also have the acting chops and determination to pull it off, multiple times? I think going with Occam’s razor is the safest bet here.
I’d definitely like to hear from people who know this stuff about any possible side-effects or counter-effects of Imipramine when taken by a person with his particular disorders. But he definitely needed to be medicated with something.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree, Lucy. DE was civilly committed to the hospital at least twice: once for suicidal ideation, and once for threatening his parents. IIRC, his other admissions were voluntary. He may have also had a short ‘hold’ at the hospital in Oregon, as well. I see no evidence of malingering (feigning mental illness for secondary gain) in the medical records. In general, patients who malinger feign psychotic symptoms, and the doctors’ notes make it clear that he did not manifest any psychosis. He did have fairly typical signs of depression. Also, his chaotic home environment was a focus of attention, and family therapy was started while he was hospitalized. Apparently things were bad enough at home that the court transferred custody of him from his parents to his paternal aunt, Patricia Liggett, on 9/14/92.
This post will be a bit long, but I want to try to answer your questions. Imipramine is a tricyclic antidepressant that was introduced to the U.S. market in 1959, so psychiatrists are quite familiar with it’s efficacy, safety profile and potential side effects. Prior to the advent of SSRI antidepressants like Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil, the tricyclic antidepressants were very commonly prescribed for signs and symptoms of major depression. According to the records, DE had symptoms of depression, and his psychiatrists chose to treat him with imipramine. If you look carefully at the record you previously referenced, Lucy, you will see that he was prescribed a dose of three 50 mg tablets each night at bedtime, which is a fairly standard dose for treating depression.
Contrary to what some believe, the antidepressants do not affect the brain or an individual’s behavior in the same manner as many recreational street drugs do. Usually, when patients receive their first dose of imipramine, they become drowsy and fall asleep, so they are directed to take it only at bedtime. Combining imipramine and alcohol would likely induce fatigue, overwhelming drowsiness and sleep, not erratic or dangerous behavior. It does not induce a ‘high’. The most commonly experienced side effects of the tricylics are drowsiness, dry mouth, and blurred vision. IMO, the most worrisome potential side effects are changes in heart rhythm and the possible exacerbation of suicidal thoughts/behavior.
A valid question would be: why was he not treated with Prozac or Zoloft? Both of these SSRI antidepressants were on the market by 1992, and both have superior safety profiles to the tricyclics. Only his treating psychiatrists can answer this question. Cost of the medications may have played a part.
The bottom line is: DE was diagnosed with depression and was treated with the appropriate class of psychotropic medication. There is no evidence in Exhibit 500 that any other type of psychotropic medication would have been indicated.
kathy I guess we were both submitting our posts at the same time yesterday.
Please no need to apologize again- no worries
- JFTR I do not think Steve Jones set Damien up to take the fall, I think he, like so many here, bought into the whole “evil” fascade…and he actually had himself believing that their was a witches cult that was satanic based in the area.
SJ thought he was capable of this crime- why? What in the 500, undoubtedly points to DE becoming Ted Bundy or to him committing a ritualistic murder? Nothing but hearsay- and IMO bad counselors ect- that were put off and afraid of DE’s “persona” and bad boy facade.
KIM not all the doctors were scared not all the doctors thought he was evil or the next TB they were actually connecting and helping Damien by giving him guidance and understanding. He responded well to treatment, not because he was a devious criminal mind “facking it” but because there were Dr.s and counselors there that broke down his facade and gave him boundaries and goals.
I think like Gitchell- SJ and Driver- some of these counselors had themselves believing that DE was a cult leader into black or gray or evil magic…. and some of them thought his smiling evilly and looking off into the distance and “listening” were signs of hallucinations when the others merely saw them for what they were a ploy and a scare tactic by a teen that enjoyed freaking people out..
Where everyone else seems to see the 500 as a testiment to DE’s mental instability, I see it as a flawed record of a typical teen in the mist of a tormentuous first love, wanting someone to listen, at the same time, fighting to push everyone away, full of angst and depressed and these problems causing him to make a set of poor choices which led him to be arrested and sent to a hospital – he was most guilty of trying to scare people away- through his music, through his attire -through his drawings -through his intelligence, and through his twisting religious journey- all used as a defense mechanism by DE
To those that say DE was all about power and control and manipulation
Youre right.
I would like them to show me any teenager that is not all about power and control and manipulation- any parent of a teen knows that these are the greatest wielded weapons in their arsenal…
They are fighting for power and control- that is their job and they learn to manipulate inorder to try and achieve it- -
it is our job as the adults to see through the manipulations, to give them guidance and support and boundaries- NOT to be too afraid of them or to buy into their sob stories of “all my friends get too” or “you just dont understand” or if you dont back off I’ll….(insert threat here).
IMO DE threatening his parents with violence is no different from another teen threatening to run away or threatening suicide- yes they are all scare tactics yes they are all manipulations, all deserve intervention, without intervention they may act out, but each are ploys for power and control.
Again there is a reason why juvenile files are sealed- it is because juveniles make poor choices- which do not undoubtedly show what type of adult they will ultimately become-
Cont
AJMO
Yeah GraceintheHills- thank you for your September 25, 2011 at 12:26 pm post- I am learning so much from you. I cant express how much I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us. Invaluable IMO
BTW- thanks for your earlier posts- as well. I also took note of the “500″ actually being less than that, aduplicated pages ect. along with varying descriptions of the same event ect- so thanks for sharing your thoughts as I was starting to think I may have imagined it all.
AJMO
cont-
Back again Kathy- Hi
You wrote that one of the biggest reasons you wanted to bring over that post was to get our thoughts on the reasoning behind the prosecution bringing up the attire and the music ect as Character evidence
Well I find this to be quite bogus reasoning-
Heres why- DE’s 14 black shirts ect or JB’s concert shirts or DE reading tastes -were not used to show lack of character-
they were used to imply these kids were dabbling devil worshipers-
What about Jesse? what was his character flaw in the way of clothing or musical tastes or reading materials?
For all intents and purposes he was a “jock” or a hick wrestling- babysitting- dressing in anything but concert shirts…
What does clothing or musically or reading tastes have to do with whether or not a persons character is one that is so depraved that he/she will commit the crimes for which they are accused?
Afterall a molesting priest dresses in his priestly frocks and listens mostly to chapel music and Gregorian chants and reads the bible- None of which actually goes to show he is capable of such atrocities as raping and silencing his victims.
Look at Ted Bundy he was a well dressed mild- mannered, up and coming lawyer and young republican – who had girlfriends and all the rest- his character was not shown through his attire or his musical tastes- although he did claim after all was said and done that pornographic mags led to his sickness- but that IMO is a cope out- and his last chance to place the blame elsewhere except squarely on his own shoulders and blood stained hands.
Look at Michael Skakel his attire and money,and reading materials tv watching- which that night was Monty Python- had nothing to do with his deplorable crime- he was outwardly seen as a fine young man- his actions ect were what told the real story of what was behind the facade…
AJMO
Sorry for all the spelling errors ect in previous posts-
Morgan thanks for being so nice- I await your next posts.
graceinthehills- Hi again- I was unable to open that link to the pdf- I appreciate you bringing it over, could you please summarize the important points, if it isnt too much trouble? Ps thanks for the compliment.
susanm- thanks for finding Aarons interview- I found some interesting interviews too Ill bring em over when I get more time.
AJMO
Enjoy the rest of the weekend guys.
From Damien’s book “Almost Home” (in reference to calling Deanna once out of the mental institution)
It’s hard to describe what had changed. Ever since walking through the doors of that mental institution I’d felt like an old man shuffling his feet along the halls of a nursing home. Talking to her sent a wave of energy through me that shook the rust off and I felt ready to get moving again. That all ended in less than sixty seconds.
“Do you still want me to come for you?”
If she said yes, I would leave right then, even if I had to walk. She didn’t say yes, though. What she said was, “I don’t know.” Never had I hesitated when it came to her, and never had I doubted. To do so never crossed my mind, but I could hear it in her voice. She was hesitating, uncertain. The magick was broken. The last thing she ever said to me was “I have to go now.”
She hung up the phone and we have never spoken again to this day.
Up until that point my life had at least had a purpose, a direction, some part of me still had faith that it would all work out. That was now gone and I was infinitely tired. I’d put all my energy into this relationship and now had none left. I sat on the edge of the bed and stared at the wall for a very long time, not knowing what else to do.
————————————
GraceintheHills says:
September 25, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Grace, iirc there was another psychotropic that Damien was administered but I can’t for the life of me remember what it was. D Might know what it was? Also, wasn’t he administered as much as 150mg of Imipramine at one point?
Also, after reading the following warning, I wondered if Imipramine might not have exasperated his depression.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000667/
AHFS Consumer Medication Information [Internet].
Imipramine(im ip’ ra meen)
Last reviewed: September 1, 2008.
Warning
A small number of children, teenagers, and young adults (up to 24 years of age) who took antidepressants (‘mood elevators’) such as imipramine during clinical studies became suicidal (thinking about harming or killing oneself or planning or trying to do so). Children, teenagers, and young adults who take antidepressants to treat depression or other mental illnesses may be more likely to become suicidal than children, teenagers, and young adults who do not take antidepressants to treat these conditions. However, experts are not sure about how great this risk is and how much it should be considered in deciding whether a child or teenager should take an antidepressant. Children younger than 18 years of age should not normally take imipramine except to prevent bedwetting, but in some cases, a doctor may decide that imipramine is the best medication to treat a child’s condition.
You should know that your mental health may change in unexpected ways when you take imipramine or other antidepressants even if you are an adult over 24 years of age. You may become suicidal, especially at the beginning of your treatment and any time that your dose is increased or decreased. You, your family, or your caregiver should call your doctor right away if you experience any of the following symptoms: new or worsening depression; thinking about harming or killing yourself, or planning or trying to do so; extreme worry; agitation; panic attacks; difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep; aggressive behavior; irritability; acting without thinking; severe restlessness; and frenzied abnormal excitement. Be sure that your family or caregiver knows which symptoms may be serious so they can call the doctor if you are unable to seek treatment on your own.
Your healthcare provider will want to see you often while you are taking imipramine, especially at the beginning of your treatment. Be sure to keep all appointments for office visits with your doctor.
The doctor or pharmacist will give you the manufacturer’s patient information sheet (Medication Guide) when you begin treatment with imipramine. Read the information carefully and ask your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions. You also can obtain the Medication Guide from the FDA website: http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/UCM096273.
No matter your age, before you take an antidepressant, you, your parent, or your caregiver should talk to your doctor about the risks and benefits of treating your condition with an antidepressant or with other treatments. You should also talk about the risks and benefits of not treating your condition. You should know that having depression or another mental illness greatly increases the risk that you will become suicidal. This risk is higher if you or anyone in your family has or has ever had bipolar disorder (mood that changes from depressed to abnormally excited) or mania (frenzied, abnormally excited mood) or has thought about or attempted suicide. Talk to your doctor about your condition, symptoms, and personal and family medical history. You and your doctor will decide what type of treatment is right for you.
_____________
Having read other such warnings I can understand, a bit, how some might believe that Imipramine wasn’t the correct drug for Damien, especially if it worsened his depression.
Thanks in advance for your opinion.
Grace, the other med I was thinking of was Trofanil, which is the same as Imipramine. That solves that.
(more from Almost Home in regard to how he got sent to Mental Hospital #2)
I became more lethargic and lackluster by the day. I no longer cared about anything. My mother expressed concern that I would harm myself, though I never seriously considered it. Everything exploded one night over a simple misunderstanding. I had some Kahlua and planned to drink it in milk. I’ve never been a big fan of alcohol of any sort, but this stuff had a nice chocolaty taste and helped me to sleep. I poured it into the milk and stirred briskly. My sister went and told my mother that I was in the kitchen, “doing something sneaky.” Of course I was being sneaky, I was trying to spend my dole money on the pint without being caught!
My mother didn’t bother to come and ask me anything, she went behind my back and called a local mental hospital. As I was walking back to my room I heard her talking very quietly on the phone, so I stopped to listen. She was telling whoever was on the other end that I had been depressed and quiet lately, and feared that I may commit suicide. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. This was the lowest thing anyone had ever done to me in my life. This was betrayal of epic proportions. You must understand my mother to be able to really understand why she did this.
If you don’t know her you could easily mistake her action for the concern of a caring parent. In reality it was the action of a drama queen. My mother loves to create drama, as I’ve already said. She still does. Every time a reporter comes around she can’t keep her mouth shut and goes into her “poor mother” routine, complete with a copious amount of tears. I’ve seen it too many times. I continued on to my room and listened to the radio for a few minutes, knowing she had set an unalterable chain of events into motion. Within a very short time, someone knocked on the door, and I opened it to discover a police officer. He asked if I would talk to him, so we took a seat in the living room. I couldn’t believe the difference between the police in Oregon and the police in Arkansas. This guy was ell-groomed and in shape, very polite, and could speak proper English. He treated me like a human being, and I may have even liked the guy under other circumstances. I agreed to go down to the place my mother had called because in the end I really had no choice. The cop left, and I got in the car with my parents.
The place turned out to be a small wing of a regular medical hospital, and I took a seat in the waiting room after we arrived. I sat there waiting to see a doctor and wondering why the hell this was happening to me. My mother has made more than her fair share of stupid mistakes, but I believe this one was the most ridiculous. My relationship with my father also changed this night.
It’s been so many years that I can now no longer even remember exactly what was said, but it was something along the lines of, “You need to straighten up and fly right, I’m tired of you moping around all the time, blah, blah, blah.” He followed it up with some kind of threat. He was trying to be a hard ass because I refused to speak to either he or my mother. I had nothing to say to them, not after doing this to me. I listened to his whole angry spiel without saying anything, but every word he spoke changed the way I saw him. It was as if I had a realization. Suddenly I saw my father not as a man, but as a boy. He was a child who had never lived up to a single responsibility in his life, and he had failed me in every way conceivable. He had abandoned me, left me to live in poverty and squalor with a hateful, religious zealot of a stepfather and a mother who wouldn’t raise a hand to protect us from his tyranny. I saw him as weak, knowing he wouldn’t have survived the despair of a life like he had left me to. I didn’t want to hear anything else from him. With absolute contempt I spat the words, “I’d eat you alive.” The prosecutor during my trail tried to say that I meant these words literally—that I was a cannibal lacking nothing but a bone to put through my nose. Of course I meant nothing of the sort, and only someone who was intellectually challenged would have dreamed up such an allegation. What it meant was that I realized I was stronger than my father, that I had survived a life I knew he would have crumbled beneath the weight of. I had survived without him, and he was doing me no great favor by being back in my life now. I was disgusted by his childishness.
When I finally saw a doctor he admitted me to the hospital and I was given a room. This place was nothing like the hospital in Little Rock, it was more like an asylum. There were no group therapy sessions, no interaction with staff, no scheduled routines, no anything. The patients spent all their time wandering the hallways, looking out the windows at the city below, or whispering among themselves. I didn’t understand the point of being there.
My parents came to see me the next day, and my mother behaved in her typical fashion—as if all was now forgiven and we’d go back to being friends. Not this time. I was fed up with her. I told her that if she didn’t check me out of this place immediately, then I never wanted to see her again. Her only response was, “If that’s what you want,” and they left. It was too much to ask that they stay away, and they returned once again the next day.
I was taken into an office to see a doctor, and my parents were sitting on a couch inside. I was in no mood to make friends, and behaved quite boorishly. The doctor finally asked me, “What is it you want?” Perhaps this is a question only a medical doctor has the intelligence to ask, because my mother and father certainly never did so. I no longer trusted my parents and could see only one option—“I want to go home.” I didn’t mean “home” as in an apartment in Oregon. When I said home I meant Arkansas. I didn’t believe there was a chance in hell of it happening, so I was stunned when my parents agreed to it. Arrangements were made for me to be discharged the next morning, and I would take a bus back down south.
There wasn’t much sleep for me that night. I went to bed but mostly just tossed and turned. I kept trying to form a plan of what I would do once I got to Arkansas, but couldn’t keep my mind on it. I didn’t even have a place to go once I got there, but I didn’t care. I knew it would all come together in time. All that mattered now is that I would soon be back home. The month I’d been gone seemed like years.
At daybreak I showered, dressed, and ate breakfast. A security guard lead me downstairs and out the front door, where I saw my mother and father standing on a sidewalk next to a cab. My suitcase was sitting at their feet. My father handed me a bus ticket and the money left over from my last paycheck. I hugged him goodbye, but his body was stiff and rigid, as if he was reluctant to touch me. He didn’t say much. Same with my mother. I put my suitcase in the cab and climbed aboard for the trip to the bus station. I was nervous, I was excited, and I was on my own at the age of seventeen.
Morgan & Grace
While we are speculating on the possible problems with the drugs imipramine and trofanil regarding Damien. In doing some research on these drugs, I find that alcohol will increase the effects of this drug. This means to me that if you have a tendency to become sleepy from the imipramine and alcohol is added to the mix, the result is likely to be the need to sleep.
If this drug does not make one sleepy then some of the side effects of imipramine in alpha order are: actions that are out of control, agitation, anxiety and hostility.
Adding alcohol to the mix would increase the behaviors listed above.
Most of us have heard of the the term “a mean drunk”. This is a person that looses control when consuming alcohol and it is expressed in anger.
Damien was IMO a strong candidate for being BiPolar.
If any of this is true, then we have the possibility that Damien was having an “eposode” brought about by the alcohol in combination with the drug.
The thing that makes me mad about this whole epasode, is none of these teenagers were of age to purchase and consume alcohol. Someone was the enabler. We know where MissKelley obtained the whisky, but have no information on the source of the beer for Damien and Jason.
IMO the enablers should have been charged with supplying alcohol to a minor. All of these guys were off the normal scale in one way or another. The alcohol only made it worse.
Morgan says:
September 25, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Also, after reading the following warning, I wondered if Imipramine might not have exasperated his depression.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Morgan, I could find no evidence from the medical records that imipramine worsened DE’s depression. The records did show that DE did not always follow-up with the recommended outpatient treatment. In other words, he was not consistently taking imipramine once he was discharged from the hospital. This may have been one reason for the transfer of custody to his aunt.
The following is a link to an excellent NIMH article that addresses concerns about the risks of prescribing antidepressants for children and adolescents who suffer from depression:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-mental-health/antidepressant-medications-for-children-and-adolescents-information-for-parents-and-caregivers.shtml
GraceintheHills and Morgan,
thanks for the info and thoughts on Imipramine!
Mom3.0, you write: “What in the 500, undoubtedly points to DE becoming Ted Bundy or to him committing a ritualistic murder”
I’d just like to point out that something doesn’t have to “undoubtedly” point to someone being a murderer for LE or people trying to assist LE to find it compelling enough to investigate that someone in a murder case. “Suspicious” is quite enough to merit a further look into that someone.
“Where everyone else seems to see the 500 as a testiment to DE’s mental instability, I see it as a flawed record of a typical teen[...]”
I understand (and respect) that we see Echols very very differently, but I just can’t see how he can he be considered a typical teen? Even if one doesn’t see him as a potential next Bundy or Manson, there was just nothing typical about him. I was once a teenager (and socialized closely with tens of other teenagers), I work with teenagers(among others), I have teenagers in my family, as family friends etc. etc. – I have never ever personally known a teenager like Echols. His type of behavior is rare, ie. not at all typical.
“Heres why- DE’s 14 black shirts ect or JB’s concert shirts or DE reading tastes -were not used to show lack of character-
they were used to imply these kids were dabbling devil worshipers-”
Are you referring to DE’s and JB’s shirts that were used to be compared with fibers being investigated?
This here remindsme so much of The WM3 murders! This scumbag had supporters and was loved by the public even tho his past he had raped some women before and kidnapped also. In fact he was escaped from jail the night the little girls were murdered.
Hope i`m not going to off topic but just to show how thoughtless supporters can be to victims families and also it`s been a lot of blood money made from these 3 girl scout murderers from documentaries media and bs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75q8Z2gzmTE&feature=related
@mom 3.0, thanks for your understanding, and follow up comments. I want to clarify something. What interested me from the other post was that the prosecution “had” to highlight the satanic ritual information because it could not bring in any of Damien’s mental health history (not about what tshirts he wore). A history which included that he was a harm to himself and others, and his admitting to witchcraft, demonology, drinking blood of others,etc. We may disagree how relevant these documents are as they relate to Damien’s character – as you pointed out that lots of teenagers hate life, want power etc. in your previous post. I understand your point.
I am going to attempt to link a few mental health records (from exhibit 500) that the prosecution had, but couldnt use, and which may have resulted in the satanic expert testimony.
This first links should be from discharge notes from Damiens stay at charter hospital in Sept 1992. Damien states he is a witch, said he sucked blood from someone in order to get into a gang. It also states a provisional diagnosis of psychotic disorder and depression.
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/082.jpg
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/083.jpg
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/084.jpg
the next link is from an initial assessment from the east arkansas mental health center dated 1/5/93 and it states that Damien hates the human race, that he has been involved in witchcraft for 8 yrs and talks about trying to steal peoples energy in order to influence them.
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/042.jpg
Another assessment dated 1/20/93 refers to Damiens previous three psychiatric hospital admission which were due to his thoughts of killing others and himself and one on 1/25/93 he states he gets power from drinking the blood of others, he denies being involved in satanic rituals but calls what he is into “demonology”.
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/051.jpg
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/exh500.html
mom 3.0, these are examples of documents that the prosecution was wanting the jury to somehow know but could not use, (thus the satanic expert).
I hope I clarified my point from the other post, although I understand you may not consider these records as true indicators of Damiens character.
I agree with you totally that how someone is dressed is not an indicative of character! I know you addressed other issues, including your thoughts on Steve Jones, Driver and Gitchell and I do think they believed there were cults, rituals, etc., going on. We agree on this , too, however their “heightened” concerns may have had truth in them.
Thanks for the discussion.
the next link
@Morgan: Oops, forgot to add: Yes, DE was treated with 150 mg of imipramine, at times.
Mom3.0 says:
September 25, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Great post. I can tell you that I would have never been picked to sit on that jury. I remember clearly the near-hysteria about Satanism that crept through so many Southern states in the late 70′s and 80′s. Even my sweet, sainted grandmother told me at one point that several of her friends had told her that a coven of devil worshippers in her small town were sacrificing animals. And, wouldn’t you know, all these ‘worshippers’ were always known to wear heavy metal t-shirts and listen to Ozzy Osbourne. Sheesh.
By the way, the link I provided was to Damien Echol’s Brief on the Admissibility of Evidence of Juror Misconduct. I found it through Google. It is a long, long read–40 pages total–but worth it if you ever have some time. I would be happy to summarize the relevant points for you, but there is SO much information that my post would be several pages long!
I just finished watching the rerun of the West Memphis Three – Free on the ID channel. Unfortunately no evidence linking them to the crime was presented so it was a biased portrayal of innocence. I prefer to have all the facts and make up my own mind.
I guess if you scream the same theme enough it becomes true.
Also noticed Lori’s facial expressions belied her true thoughts about some of Damiens’ responses. Could there be trouble Lost in Paradise ?
O I caught that, and it was in reference to their physical relationship, and wrt to the continuing investigation.
My opinion and observation only of course.
B
@ A Texas Grandfather says:
September 25, 2011 at 6:18 pm
From my experience with mental illness, these drugs wouldn’t help someone who’s manic depressive. The drug used to treat DE is intended to treat a specific type of depression, not mania. It’s also used to treat panic disorders as well.
Lithium is the most common drug used for bipolar b/c of it’s ability to balance both the mania and the depression episodes. I don’t recall reading DE ever being on Lith or any other bi polar type meds.
I just wanted to throw in my 2 bits b/c this is an area I’m all too familiar with. I also have an uncle who suffers from bipolar disorder. He’s been on Lithium (voluntarily and involuntarily, off and on) for the past 22 years.
JMHO
@ Morgan says:
September 25, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Trofanil is a brand name for Imipramine. There’s a gaggle of other brand names for this drug, as well. XO
…also…
Fluoxetine aka Prozac would not have been offered to DE b/c the risk for suicidal side effects in children, teens and young adults was still question at that time. It was shown to be highly effective for adults with depression, not young’ns. Now, it’s becoming a more acceptable med for this demographic in small doses.
GraceintheHills says:
September 25, 2011 at 6:19 pm
Thanks, Grace, for the link. I am not yet convinced that Damien did not suffer from a more severe form of depression, and clearly recall that in some of the documentation BPD is suggested, though I am not sure if I read this at Callahan’s and will look again, for clarity, and post the links as I find them. In the meantime I borrowed this as it is packed full of information regarding Damien’s repeated hospitalizations prior to the murders.
A Texas Grandfather says:
September 25, 2011 at 6:18 pm
ATG, please note the areas marked *** I agree with your comment, finding it quite probable that the mixture of 150mg of Imipramine and alcohol could have had quite an adverse affect on Damien had he taken the med and consumed alcohol. I hope I got the bolding of the text right!
http://www.downonthefarm.org/wm3hoax/board/index.php/topic,4625.0.html
5/7/92. E. Arkansas Mental Health Center: Client admits to having been suspended seven times this past semester for initiating fights at school and starting fires. States in one fight he almost gouged out the victim’s eyes.
Clinical report based on psychological tests: The behavior of this youngster is characterized by impulsive hostility…the desire to gain power and demean others springs from animosity and a wish to vindicate past grievances. This teenager believes that past degradations may be undone by provoking fear and intimidation in others. Cool and distant, this youth demonstrates little or no compassion for others.
5/19/92. Damien arrested for breaking into a trailer with his 15 year old girlfriend, Deanna Holcomb. Suicide pact if they couldn’t be together. Damien threatening to kill police officers and Deanna’s father when picked up. Convicted of second-degree burglary and sexual misconduct.
5/19/92 to 6/1/92. Craighead County Juvenile Detention Center.
Damien voiced suicide plan to folks at the center. Staff reported that Damien and Deanna planned to have a baby and sacrifice it. Damien knocked a peer to the ground, sucked the blood from the boy’s wounded arm and rubbed the blood on his face. No remorse. Deanna is hospitalized at Mid-South Hospital in Memphis.
Joyce Cureton, Juvenile Director, reported that “it is our opinion that Damien needs mental health treatment.”
6/1/92 to 6/25/92. Charter Hospital of Little Rock. Immediate hospitalization due to suicidal intent.
Admits to a history of violence and attempting to scratch out the eyes of a classmate. There were major concerns that Damien was exhibiting disturbed thinking. He has a history of extreme physical aggression toward others. It was felt that he needed to be temporarily removed from his environment to provide protection for him and protection for others.
Damien states, “I burn myself with lighters. I have huffed gas and paint, used speed, marijuana, glue, and alcohol.”
Progress Notes:
Damien stated that he got ahold of a police officer’s gun, and that if Deanna’s father had acted aggressively, “I would have blown him away and the next time I will eliminate that person.”
Denies having a conscience or feelings of regret.
Stares into space and shows no emotional response to any kind of stimuli.
Verbalized concern that there are surveillance cameras behind his mirror and under the desk in his room. Quite paranoid; he definitely bears watching.
Still drawing witchcraft symbols & continues to speak of bizarre and unusual practices.
Makes an unusual sound with his mouth that sounds like a cat purr.
States that visit with parents didn’t go well, but would not elaborate.
***Damien’s mother concerned about her son “not learning to deal with anger and rages.” Thinks Damien is responding to outside stimulation. Voiced fear that “son may be crazy.”
6/25/92. Damien discharged to mother with instructions for continuing care. Family moving to Oregon.
***8/13/92 Home Visit Evaluation by Calvin Downey, Oregon Juvenile Counselor:
***Damien indicates he did spend approximately 30 days in a psychiatric hospital via court order, because he was suicidal. He feel his prior depression has improved greatly. Denies use of nonprescribed, controlled substances or alcohol.
***Mrs. Echols indicates there are no family conflicts with Damien, that he gets along well with the family, that she does not believe he has a behavioral problem & that she does not need any services from this state.
***9/1/92. Officer Ortez is called to the Echols’ apartment in Oregon. Damien transported to St. Vincent’s Hospital.
***Emergency Room Report: The patient denies suicidal or homicidal ideation. However, in talking with family members, they state that he made it quite clear that he had thoughts of harming other people, i.e. was going to cut mother’s throat, and also made verbal threats to his father here at St. Vincent’s.
***Parents state that he has sniffed propane, glue, gasoline and almost any other drug that is possible. Parental concerns regarding satanism, devil worship.
***Admission diagnosis: Suicidal/homicidal ideation.
***9/4/92. Discharged from St. Vincent’s. Because of Damien’s threats, both parents do not feel that they wish to have him return to their home. They are frightened of him and what he can do, not only to them but to the other children who reside in the home (2 others). Damien is to return to Arkansas by bus.
***9/14/92 to 9/28/92. Readmitted to Charter Hospital from Juvenile Detention Center. He admitted to sucking the blood out of a peer’s neck while in the Center. The other peers were afraid of him. Threats to kill both parents (slash throats, eat alive).
Presenting problem: Homicidal and psychosis. Alteration in thought processes evidenced by delusional thinking and inappropriate social behavior.
***Progress notes: Belief in devil worship, has agreed to threatening to “kill” others. Bizarre behaviors. Stated he had attempted suicide before and “wasn’t worried about trying again, because I know I can come back.”
***Says he’s going to eat father and that he needs to be locked up or he will hurt someone.
Peers complaining of Damien making growling sounds at them.
Continues talk of satanism. Possible deprogramming needed. Could be a danger to others.
Continues laughing strangely and getting peers to feed into his satanism. Tries to keep staff from seeing him do anything other than what’s appropriate according to unit guidelines. Depressed mood, bizarre behavior.
Said he was “happy to be here because otherwise he’d be in jail and this has to be better.”
Spoke with Jerry Driver re: Damien’s discharge to stepfather Jack Echols. Said this was “ok”.
***Diagnosis: Psychotic Disorder NOS and Dysthymia. Prognosis: Poor.
1/5/93. Mental Health Center reopens case: Reports self-mutilation, cutting self with knives. Will “trance out” since 5th grade – doesn’t have to deal with what’s going on. Says he thinks a lot about life after death–”I want to go where the monsters go.” He admits being caught with satanic items, but denies cult involvement.
Is interested in witchcraft for the past 8 years. He has tried to steal energy from someone else and influence others’ minds with witchcraft. Describes self as “pretty much hates the human race.” Relates that he feels people are in two classes–sheep and wolves (wolves eat the sheep).
1/13/93: Damien reports that he’s very angry with family members and with other people who have “let him down”. He discussed issues of power & control. He states that he could make things happen. Affect and mood was flat.
***1/19/93: Reveals history of abuse as he talked of how he was treated as a child. States, “I just put it all inside.” Describes this as more than just anger – like rage. Sometimes he does “blow up.” Relates that when this happens, the only solution is to “hurt someone.” When questioned on his feelings he states, “I know I’m going to influence the world. People will remember me.”
***1/20/93: Damien is an 18 year old, recently discharged from Charter Hospital. He’s had three psychiatric hospitalizations. Each has been associated with anger, thoughts of killing others, and thoughts of killing himself.
1/25/93: Speaks of rituals, drinking blood, more involved in demonology. Damien explained that he obtains his power by drinking blood of others. He typically drinks the blood of a sexual partner or of a ruling partner. This is achieved by biting or cutting. He states, “It makes me feel like a god.”
Damien describes drinking blood as giving him more power and strength. He remembers doing this as far back as age 10. He wants very much to be all powerful. He wants very much to be in total control.
Damien relates that a spirit is now living with him. The spirit was put inside him last year. He indicates that a month ago, the spirit decided to become part of him and he to become part of the spirit. This is reportedly a spirit of a woman who was killed by her husband. In addition, he also reports conversations with demons and other spirits. This is achieved through rituals.
He denies that he’s satanic, seeing himself more as being involved in demonology.
Affect and mood today continued to be bland, although there was more emotion when talking about drinking blood.
2/5/93: Damien is noted to have cuts on his right arm and hand. Related that he cut himself as a way of permanently marking his skin. Related feeling very angry yesterday when running into previous girlfriend. “I controlled it – I can do anything.”
***5/5/93: At times he is impulsive and does things that may be harmful to him. He has impulses to do strange and harmful things.
5/5/93: Christopher Byers, Steve Branch, and Michael Moore are murdered.
By Mary
______________
ATG, please note the stark change in the attitude and opinion of Damien’s mother between 8/12/92 and 9/4/92. In the 8/12 report Damien’s mother says that there are no problems at home with Damien, but then as soon as 9/4/92 she states the family is afraid of him, fearing he may hurt one of them, and wants him out of the house. It’s curious, isn’t it?
I absolutely agree that Damien’s psychosis involved more than simple depression.
Just to let everyone know, the WM3 will be on Piers Morgan Tonight on Thrusday. I know I’m repeating myself, but I really wish their 15 minutes would just finish already…
@Krayon, thanks for the excerpts from “Almost Home”. I want to read the book but refuse to give any money to Damien Echols. I just can’t get over how cocky he is. You can just see how all his childhood trauma is building so much anger inside himself. I believe so much of that rage was taken out on those boys. The little boys unleashed his anger he had built up because they represented his unhappy, traumatizing childhood. He wanted power and to be in contol. Torturing and killing those boys gave him that. If you add the antidepressant mixed with alcohol to all of the other factors, you have a walking time-bomb! He says several times he felt he would hurt or kill someone. He was totally psychotic! That corroborates with all the observations at the hospital, how he has no feeling of compassion or conscience of things he might do to hurt others. It doesn’t affect him at all. These are signs of a psychopath. I believe he was a narcissistic psychopath because he’s totally in love with himself. Why supporters can’t see all this is beyond me. What about when he says he could hurt someone and the next thing he says is I know I’ll be famous, people will remember me. Sounds like he is pairing those two things together. How can one overlook all his hospitalizations the year prior to the murders. In my mind, this all fits together with the murders. As for Mr. Bojangles
Cont’d from my last post…as for Mr. Bojangles, I think he was an unfortunate person who stumbled upon these murders and got away after he was injured by the murderers and pooped his pants…the term “scared the s*** out of me” comes to mind here. That would explain the blood, mud, and defacation, not to mention the dazed state he was in.
Also, wanted to add how Damien perfected his Oscar-worthy act of proclaiming his innocence during his 18 years of prison. I might go as far as him totally believing he didn’t do it. His mind is so twisted, I could see him being able to do this. Also, he is so manipulative so that helps in his act as well. The article by Billy Sinclair entitled “Lying Eyes” really matched how I’ve always felt. When I look into Damien Echols eyes, I see a killer.
Now, I know all my theories wouldn’t secure a guilty verdict in a court of law. However being found innocent of a crime in the eyes of the law, doesn’t mean they are innocent. One of the jurors in the Casey Anthony trial said she believed Casey murdered Caylee, but following the jury instructions and the law, she had to find her not guilty.
Lucy says:
September 25, 2011 at 10:40 pm
Just to let everyone know, the WM3 will be on Piers Morgan Tonight on Thursday. I know I’m repeating myself, but I really wish their 15 minutes would just finish already…
***************************************************************
Thank you Lucy for this information.
So now the dog and pony show begins with the Hollywood spin cycle.
I will for sure be in front of my tv with the peanuts and popcorn for the Thursday tell all.
I can only hope that Jessie is permitted to sit in the presence of greatness and maybe some loose lips are greased.
For those interested. I have bolded text from the preface that pertains, I believe, to the WM3, and in particular, Damien. I am not advertising the book but only directing attention to those similarities between what is written here and the murders of Christopher, Michael and Stevie. Though the subject matter of the book deals primarily with repressed childhood memories of ritualistic abuse, the author lays out some key points common ritualistic practice, and these are the points I wish to present here.
Satanism is real. Its victims are more often than not the most innocent and pure. The children.
http://www.rossinst.com/satanic_ritual_abuse_book.html
Preface
Satanic ritual abuse was a topic unknown to most people in North America as recently as ten years ago. Since then Satanic cults have been the subject of countless media reports, of which about five hundred are listed in a bibliography by Linda O. Blood entitled Satanism and Satanism-Related Crime: A Resource Guide (1989). When I saw my first case of apparent Satanic ritual abuse in 1986, I had never read a book or article on the topic; heard any mental-health professional mention such a case; or been to a lecture, workshop, or seminar on the subject. Since then, two academic collections of essays on Satanic ritual abuse have been published (Richardson, Bromley, and Best, 1991; Sakheim and Devine, 1992), the Journal of Psychology and Theology has devoted a special 1992 issue to Satanism, the Journal of Psychohistory has devoted a special 1994 issue to cult abuse of children, and The New Yorker has published a major two-part article on Satanism, in the 17 and 24 May 1993 issues (Wright, 1993a; 1993b). Additionally, dozens of conferences and workshops dealing with Satanic ritual abuse have been held throughout the United States and Canada.
Personally, I have had clinical contact with about three hundred cases of multiple personality disorder (MPD), now officially renamed ‘dissociative identity disorder’ (American Psychiatric Association, 1994), in which the person had memories of involvement in a destructive Satanic cult. In about eighty of these cases, I have had considerable direct involvement, as a therapist or attending physician, and in the rest I have been a participant in consultation or in group therapy. In none of these cases has the reality of the memories been objectively verified, and in several of them collateral history has proven that patient claims of Satanic ritual abuse were false. I did not seek verification beyond the level of usual clinical history-taking because that is not my role and because I have not had the available resources or expertise. The patients cite the remoteness of the events in time, fear, and lack of resources as the reasons for not pursuing objective verification of their memories.
In order to understand this troublesome topic better, I began attending workshops on Satanism and talking to colleagues; I also began to read the available literature, and noticed that it had several peculiarities I had never before encountered in my professional reading. For one thing, as is evident from the references in this book, the literature on Satanic ritual abuse comprises more books than journal articles. Usually, in the professional literature dealing with mental-health subject areas, the reverse is true – articles far outnumber published books.
The second peculiarity I noticed, both at professional meetings and in my reading, was an extreme polarization of opinion. Despite the dearth of scientific or empirical literature, strongly worded views were expressed at both ends of the continuum, which ranged between firm belief in the reality of Satanic ritual abuse memories and skepticism about the truth of any of those memories. The reality of Satanic ritual abuse did not appear to be a subject of debate in any serious sense, and seemed, rather, to involve believers and skeptics speaking from preconceived, ideologically driven positions. Discussion focused on whether such cults really exist, which is a reasonable starting point, but had no context and seemed to be conducted in a historical, anthropological, clinical, and law-enforcement vacuum, with little or no organized data to provide a foundation.
The books I read tended to fall into one of four categories: case-studies (Feldman, 1993; Marron, 1988; Mayer, 1991; Smith and Pazder, 1980; Spencer, 1989; Stratford, 1988; Terry, 1987; Warnke, 1972; Wright, 1994); books written from a fundamentalist perspective (Brown, 1987; Bubeck, 1991; Cooper, 1990; Larson, 1989; Michaelson, 1989; Passantino and Passantino, 1991; Schwarz and Empey, 1988) or a twelve-step perspective (Ryder, 1992); and journalistic treatments (Blood, 1994; Hicks, 1991; Johnston, 1989; Kahaner, 1988; Lyon, 1988).
Although these books contain a great deal of useful information, they are limited in so far as they discuss a small number of cases from a single-case perspective or tend to be contaminated by the ideological biases of their authors. In none of this literature did I find a comprehensive context for thinking about the problem of Satanism. Realizing that an adequate discussion would have to be grounded in detailed knowledge of the clinical reality of ritual abuse cases, I sought in vain for a comprehensive study of such cases. The case descriptions tended to be brief, vague, or skewed by the biases of the authors, and none exhibited adequate psychological depth.
Similarly, in searching for a book that placed Satanic ritual abuse in a historical context and provided scholarly discussion of the history of known destructive and human-sacrifice cults, and secret societies, I found no single work that contained what I was looking for. Additionally, I was unable to locate a history of Satan that brought theological and cultural knowledge to bear on discussions of contemporary Satanism. It seemed to me that several indispensable contexts were absent from much of the discussion of Satanic ritual abuse, and that, without these contexts, the ungrounded, unprofitable, and polarized debate was likely to continue. Finally, and most important for my clinical work, no sufficiently detailed discussion of how clinicians can treat Satanic ritual abuse cases was available in the literature.
In deciding to write this book, I saw the necessity of correcting the contextual deficiencies but was also aware that I am not qualified as a theologian, historian, expert on non-Satanic cults, or anthropologist to the degree that is required for the task. Dealing adequately with the complex subject matter in the first section of this book would require a Ph.D. in three or four different disciplines, an achievement far beyond the grasp of any single individual. Nevertheless, background reading completed, I set out to write a book that would provide a context sufficient for the clinician’s needs. I try to do one main thing in this book: to establish that good clinical work requires a balanced perspective, free of the limitations imposed by adherence to either end of the ideological continuum. Such a perspective acknowledges that, while there is no evidence of a widespread secret network of Satanic ritual abuse, it is possible that a certain percentage of Satanic ritual abuse memories are historically accurate, or contain accurate elements.
Within the limitations of our current knowledge,no one can measure with any factual accuracy the extent of organized Satanism. It is my opinion that many of the Satanic ritual abuse memories described by the patients I treat are confabulated and comprise things that never actually happened. However, I am cautious in this opinion because I cannot know for sure that it is correct. I assume, for the sake of discussion, that 10 percent of the content of such memories could be historically accurate and based on distorted recall of childhood participation in small Christian cults; small, isolated groups of Satanists; deviant elements of the Ku Klux Klan; pornography; or other forms of abuse that a child could misinterpret as Satanic.
In this book, I describe a treatment method for Satanic ritual abuse survivors with MPD in which the interventions can be used regardless of what percentage of the memories are real. Satanic Ritual Abuse has a clinical focus, and the necessary non-clinical background it provides is unavoidably incomplete. Writers from other disciplines should consider producing scholarly works on the history and anthropology of Satanism and destructive cults that would adequately explore the material reviewed in the first section of this book.
The objective reality of Satanic ritual abuse memories is primarily a sociological and law-enforcement question and cannot be answered by clinicians. Nonetheless, clinicians treating this population need guidelines that will encourage grounded, helpful therapeutic interventions, free from the extremes of belief and skepticism. To this end, Satanic Ritual Abuse endeavours to reduce the unproductive polarization of debate about Satanism within the mental-health field, and in society, at large, by criticizing both extremes; to provide a wider context for discussion; to suggest specific research studies that are required; to correct key conceptual errors in the field; and to describe the clinical reality of Satanic ritual abuse cases.
In this book, I provide clinicians with guidelines for how to recognize and treat such cases. Because my clinical experience is limited almost entirely to Satanic ritual abuse survivors with MPD, I deal predominantly with those patients. This focus is consistent with clinical needs because most patients who report such memories have MPD. (I use the abbreviation ‘MPD’ in this book, rather than the new term ‘dissociative identity disorder,’ because the former term is still more familiar to most readers.) However, the clinical focus also addresses the broader debate, establishing a context that is too often absent or distorted by misinformation. In describing a balanced clinical treatment of Satanic ritual abuse cases, the clinical material creates a way of understanding and treating these cases that can be effective regardless of what percentage of the memories are real, and this strategy also reduces the polarization into opposing camps of believers and skeptics.
Throughout this book, I set contemporary Satanic ritual abuse in a context of Judaeo-Christian culture: my perspective on Satanism is rooted in themes of dissociation, dualism, and projection, which are at the heart of our history and which are within my expertise as a psychiatrist. I see the sociology of the controversy surrounding Satanic ritual abuse as a contemporary enactment of the myth of Satan, which is the deepest myth of Judaeo-Christian culture.
(*Note: No, I do not, and not by any stretch of the imagination consider God and Satan a “myth”. I just had to say that.)
The question of the extent to which the symbolism and mythology of Satan are being acted out in Satanic human sacrifices in North America in the late twentieth century is not answered in these pages, and cannot be. As I said earlier, at least 10 percent of the reported memories could be real: no one knows where the actual figure falls, and no benefit can be derived from making premature estimates. Similarly, no attempt is made in this book to produce a formal definition of Satanic ritual abuse. There are too many forms and levels of Satanism for one definition to be all-encompassing, and, when it comes to the most extreme form of Satanism – multigenerational orthodox Satanic cults – it is clear what we are talking about. These cults, if they exist, are secret, highly organized, and devoted to human and animal sacrifice, sado-masochistic ritual sex, child abuse, and other crimes, which are committed during ceremonies involving pentagrams, robes, chanting, Satanic theology, candles, goblets, daggers, and other paraphernalia.
(*Note: did you get that? There’s your ice axe, Blink, and at least one of the knives in question, along with that pesky blue candle wax, pentagram with the drops of blood upon it and the trench coats in place of the robes, perhaps?)
As initial reading about Satanic ritual abuse, I recommend The Satanism Scare (Richardson, Best, and Bromley, 1991), because I find it to be the best collection of essays written from a skeptical viewpoint, and Out of Darkness: Exploring Satanism and Ritual Abuse (Sakheim and Devine, 1992), which is the best collection of essays from a believer perspective. For law-enforcement information and a governmental perspective, I recommend Satanism and Occult-Related Violence: What You Should Know (Langone and Blood, 1990); Report of the Virginia State Crime Commission Task Force Study of Ritual Crime (Gray, 1992); the Office of Criminal Justice Planning, State of California, Research Update6/1 (Winter 1989-90); and the report on Satanic crime prepared by Kenneth Lanning of the FBI, entitled Investigator’s Guide to Allegations of Ritual Child Abuse, (1992). Information for ordering these materials is provided in chapter 12.
Special issues of three academic journals contain papers on Satanic ritual abuse: Journal of Psychology and Theology, 20 (1992); Child Abuse and Neglect, 15 (1991); and the Journal of Psychohistory, 21 (1994). Academic papers by Ofshe (1992) and Nurcombe and Unutzer (1991), and the paper by Young, Sachs, Braun, and Watkins (1991) are worthy of attention, as is a popular article by Whitley (1991).
Those who are skeptical that Satanic ritual abuse could be real should read Dzeich and Schudson’s book on how U.S. courts deal with child sexual abuse, entitled On Trial: America’s Courts and Their Treatment Of Sexually Abused Children (1991). Dzeich and Schudson describe a non-Satanic case which resulted in conviction. The Country Walk case from Miami, Florida, resulted in a prison sentence without chance of parole until the year 2150 for Frank Fuster. Dzeich and Schudson write: ‘The victims, predominantly infants, toddlers, and preschoolers, were subjected to sexual abuse and pornography; to being drugged and terrorized by sadistic games, disguises, and animal slaughter; and to having to drink urine and consume excrement. Authorities estimated the couple [Frank and Iliana Fuster] had access to as many as fifty children; but by the time the case reached court, only eight were able or permitted by parents to testify’ (p. 78). Fuster’s wife corroborated the children’s stories under oath.
The fact that Frank Fuster was convicted for acts that include all the alleged activities of Satanists except human sacrifice proves that such acts can take place and have occurred in North America in recent years. Though there is no evidence that he belonged to an organized cult, Frank Fuster had prior convictions for murder and child molestation, though these facts were not admissible in court and not known to the jury.
Other media sources provide hints but no proof that actual Satanic ritual abuse may be occurring in the Western world today. An article in The International Herald Tribune, 30 December 1993 (Anastasi, 1993; Blood, 1994), describes the arrest of a group of Satanists in Greece. Four soldiers in their twenties and an eighteen year old woman confessed to the ritual murder of two humans during Satanic ceremonies: the victims were a fourteen year old girl and a twenty-seven year old woman. According to the charges, the group carried out ‘rituals in tribute to a satanic god, rituals that mostly involved drinking and sex orgies. They would then restrain their victims with chains and handcuffs, torture them, and in two cases put them to death with daggers and a gun.’ The arrests occurred because one of four girls being prepared for sacrifice on 25 December 1993 ‘broke down and reported the rituals to police.’
Although this case has not yet gone to trial, charges include premeditated murder, torture, conspiracy, arson, and illegal possession of firearms. Depending on its outcome, this case suggests that some memories reported by Satanic ritual abuse survivors in treatment in North America could be real.
In their book Missing Children: Rhetoric and Reality, Forst and Blomquist (1991) review the statistics on missing children in North America. The authors’ intention is to counter the fear that thousands of children go missing every year in the United States; although they are committed to the view that the number of cases per year indicates that the problem is not widespread, and their bias is against hysteria or exaggeration, their figures are none the less alarming.
In 1983, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services estimated the number of missing children in the United States at 1.5 million a year. The vast majority of these children were only technically missing, since they returned home within a few hours or days, with or without police assistance. A disparity in estimates is apparent within the narrower category of kidnapping: in 1985, the executive director of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children estimated that between 4,000 and 20,000 children are kidnapped by strangers in the United States per year; in 1981, the FBI investigated only 35 child kidnappings, and, in 1986, only 57 cases. We have no precise accounting of the number of children who go missing permanently in North America per year.
The National Statistical Survey of Runaway Youth estimated that 733,000 youth ran away from home in the United States in 1975, and the figure was set at one million per year by the commissioner for the Administration of Children, Youth, and Families in testimony before a U.S. Senate subcommittee in 1990.
In contrast to the number of children who potentially could be kidnapped into multigenerational orthodox Satanic cults is the figure of confirmed cases of children having been kidnapped and murdered by a stranger in the United States: this figure ranges between 52 and 156 children per year, according to Forst and Blomquist – conservatively, about 5,000 children since the end of the Second World War. The figure the authors derive for the percentage of kidnapped and missing children who are murdered is 2.8 per cent, a remarkably precise estimate, given the amount of noise in the data.
Forst and Blomquist describe the study from which the estimate of 2.8 per cent is derived: the study was done in Jacksonville and Houston and examined 1,299 cases of child kidnapping by non-family members in those two cities, as detailed in the 1986 report of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Inexplicably, only 211 cases were included in police records, but of these 211, 54 per cent involved sexual assault, and 2.8 per cent murder.
If the 211 cases in police records were a representative sample of the 1,299 cases, then 36 children were kidnapped and murdered by strangers in two U.S. cities in one year, compared with a total of 57 kidnappings with all outcomes investigated by the FBI in the entire country in 1981. One must conclude from these figures that estimates of the number of children who are kidnapped and murdered per year in North America are imprecise; by extension, one could also conclude that it is logistically possible for a number of undetected ritual murders to be conducted per year in North America.
Note: ( I forgot to note it) MADE TO DRINK URINE.
But you didn’t miss that one, did you?
imo, Damien wasn’t sick because he was an occultist; he was an occultist because he was sick. The question remains, is he still?
Ragdoll says:
September 25, 2011 at 9:43 pm
Good morning beloved friendly! I am so grateful for your post and would like your specific opinion then on whether you believe Damien received adequate/proper evaluation and treatment. I believe he did not. I believe he’s at least bipolar, but what the heck do I know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOuEo1ouDOk&feature=related
Krayon, thanks for bringing those excerpts over- very enlightening. Do you have a link to more?
Lucy, nothing in the 500 points towards DE being a canidate for a suspect in these murders either. He thought about killing himself, and he voiced bodily threats towards his parents-
SJ did not immediately think HMMM who do I find suspicious? He thought O my gosh these are definitely ritualistic satanic murders -and the only one capable of such atrocities is DE, the kid that I have been fixated on for the last 3 years- the one I am certain (despite no evidence)is the leader of this satanic cult, along with a man called Lucy or Lucifer, who of course was never found.
Yes DE must have done these murders in a satanic fit- even though he has never committed another crime since running away with his girlfriend, which wasnt satanic in nature, just stupid, borrowing supplies from his family, breaking an entering in an abandoned house, and being caught having sex…and of course contemplating shooting the father of said girl inorder to protect his girlfriend from a possibly abusive father…
Yes, we see Damien in totally different ways, Lucy. Perhaps the reason is because you can not see his attitudes and behaviors as typical, because you are comparing him to a couple of teens you work with- and your family members and once upon a time friends who are/were nothing like DE.
Well, I can assure Lucy, that it is just not my opinion that he seems like just another teen, seeking attention, feeling ostracized, distant, in the midst of his first love- where everything can seem so overwhelming and all consuming- Typical teens are often times immature, insecure, impulsive, argumentative, belligerent, moody, seemingly devoid of compassion and common sense, confrontational, aloof, over the top, overly dramatic, crass, sad, depressed, beyond reason, spiteful, arrogant, manipulative, they think they know it all, and therefore often times make very poor choices.
Most people wouldnt see this side of the typical teen, certainly not in work places, they are on their best behavior, or at least try to be, usually the “worst” side of a typical teen, is reserved for their teachers and their parents or gaurdians. LOL
Are all teens exactly like DE? No of course not, as I said before, each is different and unique- but again they are more than any one diagnosis, and they are more than one file, regardless of the # of pages, and as illustrated within the 500, it depends on who is doing the counseling and the write ups what is written and how it is written- and certainly who is reading it -in other words it is all highly subjective- and in no way an actual bluprint to committing a triple murder or becoming the “next Ted Bundy” or even remotely becoming a suspect of these crimes – and it certainly does not mean he or other typical teens, who may be going though much the same set of circumstances ect, as Damien was, are soulless “evil” devil worshiping murderers.
AJMO
cont-
Mom 3.0- I am correct, many posts I approved, which showed moderated successfully are here in pending. If I had to guess, it may be my wp app on the droid timing out. Never the less, everything is where it is supposed to be, and will all be up momentarily. All fixed, phew. Apologize to my neighboring guests if any of y’all heard my potty mouth.
B
I started looking closely at Damien’s alibi, taking notes on what each person said, and trying to verify some things.
I believe that Damien Echols was at the Sanders’ house the night of the murders.
Michelle said that she went with her mom and dad to pick up Damien and Domini at the Laundromat about 3:30-3:45. She said they dropped Domini off at home then stopped at the pharmacy to get Damien’s meds, then went home. She said they all went to the Sanders’ house around 20 of 7, and stayed about 30 minutes (the Sanders were at Splash). Only their daughter, Jennifer was there. They got home around 8 and Damien talked on the phone to Holly and then Jennifer. Then he talked to Jason from about 9:30- 10:00. Then he talked to Domini and they fought.
Michelle’s response when stating that her parents were watching TV at the Sanders’ that night:
MICHELLE – I MEAN, IT WAS NOT LIKE . . . THEY DON’T USUALLY WATCH THAT, THEY WERE WAITING ON RANDY AND SUSAN TO GET HOME.
(Jennifer Sanders was watching 90210)
Jennifer Sanders (age 11) said that Pam, Joe, Michelle and Damien came by the house that night. It was around 7pm, and she knows this because 90210 was just about to come on.
Stacy Sanders (age 18) was across the street that night at her cousin Meredith’s house. She said Meredith told her the Echols were at her house, and she looked out the window and saw Pam, Joe and Damien going into her house. She said only Jennifer was home, because her parents were at Splash. She knows it was Wednesday, the 5th, because it was the first Wednesday in May, and 90210 was coming on. She said it was a special show, one of the last ones of the season, and she thinks it was the Prom of 90210. The show comes on at 7 pm. She said the Echols/Hutchisons left halfway through the show, and she watched them leave. There was a fourth person in the car with them, but she couldn’t make out who it was. (Michelle)
Meredith McKay lives across the street from the Sanders. Stacy Sanders was with her that night. She saw Pam, Joe and Damien going into the Sanders house and told Stacy the Echols were at her house. She knows it was the 5th because they were going to watch 90210, and it comes on on Wednesdays at 7 pm.
Debbie McKay (Meredith’s mother) said she was off that night, so it was a Wednesday. They were watching 90210, and she saw the Echols go over to her sister’s house across the street. Although, she only knew of Pam for sure, and didn’t know who else was with her.
Susan Sanders was at Splash that night when the Echols/Hutchisons came over. She knows it was the first Wednesday in May because her husband gets his disability check the 3rd of the month, and they took some of that money and went to the Splash Casino.
Now, when LE went over the sign-in sheets at Splash with Mr. DeWitt, they decided because there was a 2 (for 2 guests) crossed out, and a 1 put beside it for the night of May 5, that it must have been only Mr. and Mrs. DeWitt that went that night. They say that it must have actually been 5/9/93 that the Sanders went to Splash with the DeWitts, because that day has a 3 next to it.
The problem I have with that is, 5/9 was a Sunday. 90210 was on on Wednesdays, and a number of people agree that it was a Wednesday night, and they were all watching 90210.
I looked up the original air date of the Prom episode for 90210:
http://www.crazyabouttv.com/beverlyhills90210.html
77. A Night To Remember (5/5/1993)
Well, that and the fact that Pam Hutchison changed the date that Joe alledgedly left her, two months later, after adjourning a deposition in favor of being represented by Damien’s counsel ( who did not represent her in the end anyway).
Her original statement was that Joe left her the night of the murders, which I believe. So how could they both be there on the alternative night she said joe left her, and was also his birthday.
B
33. Morgan says:
September 25, 2011 at 10:13 pm
GraceintheHills says:
September 25, 2011 at 6:19 pm
Thanks, Grace, for the link. I am not yet convinced that Damien did not suffer from a more severe form of depression, and clearly recall that in some of the documentation BPD is suggested, though I am not sure if I read this at Callahan’s and will look again, for clarity, and post the links as I find them. In the meantime I borrowed this as it is packed full of information regarding Damien’s repeated hospitalizations prior to the murders.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Morgan, I have read everything over at Callahan regrading DE’s records. His doctors DID feel his depression was severe enough that it warranted treatment with an antidepressant, but he progressed through each hospitalization and the doctors did not hold him any longer than they felt they had to. As Mom3.0 noted, the documentaton shows he made progress in each hospitalization, and was ultimately released because the doctors and team felt he was no longer imminently dangerous to himself or others.
Also, BPD is “suggested” only once by psychological testing performed by psychologist, Dr. Bracy, who saw DE during the June 1992 admission to Charter Little Rock. Testing alone does not a diagnosis make. On that same date, Dr. Bracy also quite oddly diagnosed DE with a concurrent depressive disorder. Bracy should have picked one or the other as giving both diagnoses concurrently is not accepted practice. In other words, BPD *is* a depressive disorder, so one would not list Depressive Disorder in addition to BPD. This calls into question his level of expertise, IMO. BPD is not a diagnosis any of the psychiatrists ever gave him. The diagnoses given at every discharge, after he had been carefully observed and monitored by his treatment team and doctors, did NOT include Bipolar or any psychotic disorder. I guess one can sit and try to second guess what these professionals actually observed in DE at the time, but, IMO, in particular for me, it is totally inappropriate to speculate and disregard the facts of the case.
ATG, please note the areas marked *** I agree with your comment, finding it quite probable that the mixture of 150mg of Imipramine and alcohol could have had quite an adverse affect on Damien had he taken the med and consumed alcohol. I hope I got the bolding of the text right!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is this you, Blink, doing this bolding? Normally it is, so I just wanted to be sure. If it is not, it is a bit confusing, as most of us assume it is our dear Blink when something is BOLDED.
Not me, and it is showing bold for me, and I do not have any open strings, or everything would be bold, I would not even know how to bold it, so I am guessing she may be copying her posts from a word doc ( common, so they do not go poof if one’s system refreshes or whatever), and copying them directly.
Morgan, if you are reading this, would you mind not bolding, please? Had I caught it I would have mentioned sooner, it is confusing to readers as I am the bold in response (literally and figuratively, lol)
B
I just realized my above post is confusing. The note to ATG about BOLDING was written by Morgan. My response is underneath.
cont-
Lucy, Hello again- you asked IRT a snippet of my post:
Are you referring to DE’s and JB’s shirts that were used to be compared with fibers being investigated?
MP snipped- “Heres why- DE’s 14 black shirts ect or JB’s concert shirts or DE reading tastes -were not used to show lack of character-
they were used to imply these kids were dabbling devil worshipers-”
—Lucy thanks for asking for clarification, I was responding to kathys post IRT the prosecutions closing arguments-
I was referring to the clothes taken into evidence yes, but not entirely for fiber comparison- I was specifically talking about the closing arguments
such as these comments:
snipped:
“.. The defense would say, in and of itself, would this motivate somebody to kill? In and of itself? No. Question after question. In and of itself, would this item of evidence cause somebody to kill? No. In and of itself, does the fibers mean that these are the killers? In and of itself? No. In and of itself, does the knife found behind Jason Baldwin’s trailer, in and of itself, mean that he’s the killer? No….
This satanic stuff–satanic picture in and of itself does that mean they’re Satanists or anything like that? No. This mean in and of itself, Satanist? No. But, why present it? Why present this stuff? And by the way this doesn’t have anything to do with Wicca, doesn’t have anything to do with it. The reason to present it, is that to try to inflame you all and make you all so angry because it’s something different–because it’s something different and something we don’t understand? Is that why we would present it? No, not at all……
I think you’ll understand why the need to put on this evidence. It’s not something made up, it’s not something dreamed up, it’s not a figment of our imagination. And it doesn’t matter whether I believe it, or the defense attorneys believe it, or you even believe in these concepts. The only thing that matters is what these defendants believe. That’s the only thing that matters, in relation to motive.
The testimony in this case was that these murders — when you take the crime scene, the injuries to these kids, the testimony about sucking of blood–and do you remember there was testimony about that–in the satanic areas, that blood is a life force, there is a transference of power from drinking of blood — when you take all of that together, the evidence was that this murder had the trappings of an occult murder. A satanic murder…..
No, ladies and gentleman, each item of this, in and of itself, doesn’t mean somebody would be motivated to murder–not in and of itself. You look at it together and you get–you begin to see inside Damien Echols. You see inside that person. And you look inside there and there’s not a soul in there. Not somebody that could commit this murder. And you see what is really there by his own writings –by his own hand…..
Now what shows all this? Anything wrong with wearing black in and of itself? No. Anything wrong with the heavy-metal stuff in and of itself? No. The book of shadows anything wrong with that in and of itself? No. But when you take the all-black, sucking blood, the tattoos–interesting thing about the tattoos, he testified he used a razor blade dipped in ink and tattooed a pentagram on his chest, an Egyptian ankh on his chest, I believe it was a cross on his hand–upside down depending on how you hold your hand. I submit to you it takes a certain degree of skill, and something else, to be able to take a razor blade and dip it in ink and do that to yourself.
Said something interesting here in his testimony. The reason he wore all black, said two things. One, he’s real self conscious in about how you looked, and he got a headache. Wore all black all the time didn’t matter, he got a headache. Well, if that cause him a headache not to wear black he must have an infernal one right now, cause he hasn’t worn black during this entire four weeks of trial. He says he wears it to keep people away. Yet, he wears that black in a big overcoat during the hot part of the summer. Does he keep people away? Or at softball fields, where all his little groupies getting up around him–these young people getting up around him, wanting to see what this guy is all about. Scary, that is what it is, scary.
And then you think about, why did he change his name to Damien? Why he studied to be a catholic priest. Remember when the testimony was that that occurred? About when he was sixteen. When was that in relation to the murders? He’s eighteen at the time he was arrested. About two years before the murders. When did they say he started dressing in black? About two years before the murders. When did he say–tell ya that he wrote all this stuff? ’91–’92, about two years before the murders.
—and there you have it-
The knife behind JB’s trailer had nothing to do with these murders, the drawings and writings of Damien from two years prior, had nothing to do with these murders nor did his self-made tattoos or his trenchcoat, or any their clothing, all black, metal shirts ect
It wasnt character evidence, it wasnt evidence at all- it went to show that these murders had “the trappings of an occult murder” “a satanic murder”
As for the fiber evidence, cotton/polyester blend is rather common so is rayon- and any # of cheap tshirts/robes bought from walmart would have matched- and I doubt all were bough and owned by these 3 teens.
So, all this “scary” evidence was brought up for what? As the prosecutor said- in and of it self it means diddly squat, but taken all together you can begin to form a picture of a scary witch who wants to be “in the middle” but can change sides at a moments notice…a soulless satanic leader who is capable of murdering 3 little defenseless boys….and then brag about it.
Yep- thats the ticket- its a much more believable picture than LE got it wrong, this wasnt a satanic ritualistic killing nor did it have the “trappings of an occult murder” nor does any of this show it was DE and his satanic witches cult, who committed these murders and this cant be proven even if you believe DE was just ” being confused because you got Wiccan, which is the good, and upside down crosses which is satanic”
LE got it wrong and should have NEVER brought up any of this as a motive or character evidence – and if these murders were wrapped up in occult trappings it is only because LE and the prosecution were determined to paint them as such, to go towards motive- they were wrong.
All this has NOTHING to do with these murders- the totality of the evidence is that LE doesnt know why these boys were murdered- and they dont know what was used as the murder weapons,- and they dont know when the murders occurred- or in what order ect-despite having had “confessions” which IMO was a bunch of meandering statements from a proven liar who is possibly “slow” and was definitely scared, & who was friends with Vicki, who lied on the stand and was determined to put herself inside the investigation,, who had a child that just like Jesse, admitted to being there at the time of the murders and admitted to participating, but both got most, if not all, the details/facts wrong…
and of course LE had Damien Echols and his “scary” behaviors and attire and reading materials and his questionable past, that was immediately brought to light by SJ and JD- as was the whole -its a satanic ritualistic murder bs- and then they had Jason B, proven to be Damien Echols Best friend -thats it- all the rest is he said she said-
AJMO
JFTR again, I am not saying that DE and company didnt commit these murders- IDK-its possible, so many scenarios are…but I am saying that to use their clothing or reading or music tastes or knife collecting, or the 500 as evidence of proof of their guilt or as character evidence is wrong– because none if it proves anything-
AJMO
kathy says:
September 25, 2011 at 7:44 pm
This first links should be from discharge notes from Damiens stay at charter hospital in Sept 1992. Damien states he is a witch, said he sucked blood from someone in order to get into a gang. It also states a provisional diagnosis of psychotic disorder and Depression:
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/082.jpg
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/083.jpg
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/084.jpg
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Kathy, Just wanted to point out that DE did not receive Psychotic Disorder as a final diagnosis during that hospitalization. A “provisional” diagnosis is what a doctor believes *might* be going on with a patient at the time of admission, before s/he gets to know the patient better. Final diagnoses are given at discharged, and are based on what signs and symptoms the doctor observed during hte course of the hospitalization. If you had included the final page of this discharge report, you would have found that during the course of the hospitalization the doctor did not observe DE to have any psychosis, and, as a result of those observations, s/he gave DE a final Axis I diagnosis of Dysthymia, and Other Specified Family Circumstances:
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/085.jpg
Oops: Sorry for the typos. Had a long, busy night, and I need a nap.
Kathy-
Hi, you wrote their could be some truth to the occult angle- yes I agree it is the truth that LE thought these were satanic ritualistic crimes, and it is true that DE had tattoos and wore black and trench coats and listened to metal, and knew A.crawleys writing code, and that he said he was a witch, ect ect-
But since LE was wrong, why do so many still put so much stock in it?
I understand your point Kathy- but whether or not you agree with the prosecution tryingto sneak it into show DE mental history ect, is not the issue- the issue is that they used his reading materials his name his drawings, his poems ect ect has evidence to show motive and that these were murders which were committed by someone who was confused between satanic and wiccan beliefs- in other words, used as proof that they were satanic murders or murders wrapped up in misguided occult trappings- and THERE IS NO EVIDENCE of any of that.
Again Kathy whether or not he “admitted” to being a wiccan or drinking blood from willing partners or wishing his parents dead -or wanting to commit suicide- ect ect ect does not go to show that he committed these murders nor does his depression or anything else in those 500 pgs.
Thanks for the links- you too Morgan, it seems that pertinent information was left out and other information underscored. A summation- clearly does not encompass the complete picture.
AJMO
Morgan I read that- in my research- but thanks for bringing it over anyway.
It is his opinion and his opinion only and he is trying to sell a book and the FBI disagrees with him, as do other pyscholgistsect- and most of these survivors remember this abuse in therapy involving memory guidance ect- which is highly questionable you nknow repressed newly found memories- and many of these patients later recant – and often times there is no evidence to back up their claims at all…\
and I am not sure what it goes to prove, as it has already been established these werent satanic ritualistic crimes nor did they have the trappings of an occult murder.
—
AJMO