The West Memphis Series Part II: Guilty By Plea And Have Been Set Free
Jonesboro, AR- In a shocking development, four days following the first installment of the West Memphis Three on www.blinkoncrime.com, on August 19, 2011 Damien Echols, Charles Jason Baldwin and Jessie Miskelley, through an Alford plea, were convicted of three counts of first degree murder following an agreement made by Prosecutor Scott Ellington and their respective defense attorneys for the murders of eight year old boys James Michael Moore, Christopher Byers ( Murray) and Stevie Branch.
Judge David N. Laser agreed to and imposed suspended sentences for time served to Echols, Miskelley and Baldwin; all were released and immediately declared their innocence during the ensuing press conference.
In Part I of our series, we touched briefly on the development of new evidence and possible murder weapon, the blue handled- mountain ice axe, which inexplicably was never presented at trial. It had been admitted into evidence after being retrieved from its owner, following it’s return by Jason Baldwin’s, younger brother Mathew.
Requests to confirm whether or not the ice axe was maintained in evidence at West Memphis Police Department were non-responsive at the time of this publication. Part II continues first with what the jury never heard. A podcast of my interview on the case following the release of the WM3 can be found here.
Premature Illumination
One of the larger points of contention in the murders was the lack of blood evidence at the scene. The lack of blood or blood spatter at the scene with such gruesome injuries spawned the defense theory the ditch was a dump site or secondary crime scene. This was largely due to the fact that the jury would never hear about the results of luminol tests; it was suppressed by motion of the defense In both trials.
Luminol enhanced chemiluminesence (LCL) technology in 1993 was geared toward examining items of evidence in a lab under black light for optimum photographic results, or its secondary application for use in an enclosed environment which can be manually darkened and a portable black light ( we now call this an alternative light source or ALS) brought to the scene.
LCL when sprayed onto a surface containing remnants of blood, or more specifically the iron in blood, will create a glowing reaction when iron, invisible to the naked eye, is present.
In 1993 under Arkansas law, Luminol testing was considered new, novel, and not accepted as scientific evidence.
While the methods for collection, testing and controls have advanced significantly since 1993 and LCL testing is widely used in criminal case work, analysis of the findings in the instant case flatly dispute the notion that there was no blood associated with the crime scene along the ditch bank of Robin Hood Hills.
Contrary to the misconception that there was no evidence of blood at the scene, the results of two consecutive days of luminol tests at the scene were enlightening.
As Kermit Channell and Donald Smith, from the Arkansas crime lab could not bring the “outside in” they were forced to set up shop in the woods along the banks of the ditch. Also present for testing both days were WMPD Detectives Mike Allen, Tony Anderson and Bryn Ridge.
Donald Smith’s report below in it’s entirety below, The other reports can be found here.
STATE CRIME LABORATORY
P.O. Box 5274
Number 3 Natural Resources Drive
Little Rock, Arkansas 72215
REPORT OF LABORATORY ANALYSIS
Investigating Officer / Agency / Address
Sgt. Mike Allen
West Memphis Police Department
100 Court Street
West Memphis, AR 72301
Laboratory Case Number: 93-05717
Date Received in Lab: 05/07/93
How Evidence Received: M E / Matthew Elliott
Agency Case Number:
Suspect (s):
Victim (s):
Steve Edward Branch
Date of Report; 06/10/93
FIELD INVESTIGATION. WEST MEMPHIS TRIPLE HOMICIDE. MAY 12 and
MAY 13. 1993 LUMINOL:
This analyst and Kermit Channell, Serologist responded to request to perform luminol on
a potential crime scene area on May 12, 1993. We left that afternoon, arriving in West
Memphis at approximately 6:30 P.M., proceeding to the Police Department.
Officers Tony Anderson, Brian Ridge, and Mike Allen accompanied Kermit and myself
to a swampy area in the northern edge of West Memphis where the victims were found.
A general survey of the area in the daylight hours was conducted. Approaching darkness
fresh solutions of luminol reagent were prepared. When the area became dark, using
flashlights for light support, the part returned to the area and proceeded to spray and
locate areas of luminol light emission activity, a presumptive test for the presence of
trace quantities of blood. The following observations were noted:
(1) At a trail along a stream bed an approximately 11 foot high bluff overlooking the
stream positive reactions were noted on either side of a tree with more reaction noted to
the right side of the tree, facing the stream bed.
(2) An Area with used plastic sheeting west of the trail and the bluff gave more positive
reactions were noted.
(3) At the west bank of the stream bed, to the right of some trees, an area gave positive
reaction. It was explained by the Police Department that this was where two of the
victims were placed when they were recovered from the stream bed.
(4) In the stream bed, below the described (at one time) water line, positive luminol tests
indicated where one of the victims was found in the water as related by the West
Memphis Police Department.
(5) On the east bank of the stream bed were a pile of sticks and a depression in the soil
where luminol tests showed a concentrated area of positive reaction.
[PAGE 2]
(6) North of this point luminol tests gave positive reaction to a large area of
concentration (described by West Memphis Police Department where the third victims
was placed upon recovery from the water).
(7) North of the point #6 near some tree roots, another large area of concentration of the
luminol reaction was noted.
(8) Trace amounts of positive luminol reaction was noted on the slope west of the area
where two of the victims were recovered and placed. (reference area #3). The areas north
and south of where the third victims had been placed (5) and (6) were unaccountable
known activity by the Memphis Police Department or rescue / recovery operations.
From these areas of noted luminol reactions for the presumptive presence of trace
amounts of blood the following opinion is rendered:
The traces of presumed blood detected along the trail (2), and at the bluff (1), and one the
slope (8) appear to be transfer of blood by the rescue and recovery teams.
Reaction in the areas where the recovered victims were placed is the apparent result of
trace blood transfer from the victims (3) and (6).
The area below the water level on the west side of the stream was accounted as where
trace amounts of the victimís blood diffused into the mud in the stream bed.
The areas (5) and (7) indicate activity prior to recovery of the victims and relate to
activity to the victims when perhaps they were being attacked.
It should be noted that the luminol testing was performed some days after the discovery
of the victims and at least one rainfall had occurred. There were no visible signs or
indication of blood at any of the locations that we investigated.
[PAGE 3]
Upon the group returning that night to the police headquarters Inspector Gitchell and his
staff were advised of our findings. It is our opinion the crime had taken place where the
bodies of the victims were recovered. Inspector Gitchell was further advised of the
inability to document the luminol reaction of the evening because of the light leaks from
stars and the back scattered light from West Memphis. To document the luminescence
Inspector Gitchell was advised that we would have to place tenting over the areas of
interest and to block out all stray light possible.
The luminescence requires near total darkness to document luminol reactions in the open
field.
It was decided that Kermit and I should stay over the next day perform the tests again
and photograph them.
The morning of May 13, Inspector Gitchell provided us with equipment, supplies and
manpower needed to document the areas of positive luminol reaction. A test with plastic
covering over the canvas was erected and photographs were taken of the positive areas
noted of the previous evening again with fresh luminol application.
Because of the limitations due to some light leakage, physical activity in the area
destroying some of the reaction, the weather conditions of some light rain the night
before and the originally low concentration levels in the areas on the bluff (area #1), along
the trail (area #2), where the victims were placed (area #3), and the area in the stream bed
where the body was recovered (area #4) and the area above the recovery area (area #8)
we were not able to document photography as we observed these areas the evening of
May 12.
The tented area over the areas where the victim’s body was placed (#6) and the
questioned area (#5), subdued the light to a degree that a less than perfect photograph
could be obtained. These photographs still documented the areas of interest, showing
luminol reaction in respective areas. These photographs were without the benefit of flash
painting application to reference the areas photographed. A still photo of the questioned
area from the original camera tripod location does reference the questioned area. The
photographs were processed revealing the luminol reaction at areas where the victim was
place (#6) and the questioned area (#5)
[PAGE 4]
The tent was moved and photographs were taken of the questioned area by the tree root (#7). Photographs of the areas (#4, #5 and #6) with surveyor flags mounted were taken to reference those areas tested and photographed. All photographs were left with Inspector Gitchell.
[signed] Donald E. Smith, Criminalist
Soil samples were submitted on May 14, 1993, but for unknown reasons not tested until 4 months later, and did not react to the luminol.
The result was considered inconclusive as it was not likely to detect blood from a four month old soil sample in the first place.
Although the luminol reaction results were not admissible in the trials, for analysis purposes, it tells an irrefutable story. The obvious counter-argument could only be that investigators were new to the technique, some of the initial testing was unable to be photographed, or to any conspiracies, that detectives simply made up results for some purpose.
However, as none of the investigators present had the autopsy results prior to the testing, and most certainly did not have Jessie Miskelley’s “account” to draw from, outside of the known injuries and other more circumstantial evidence in this case, these findings certainly further support there were multiple perpetrators in this crime- and that it all went down right there.
In 1998, Damien Echols filed a Rule 37 hearing for causes of incompetent counsel and due to his “actual innocence.” Jessie Miskelley lost his appeal to overturn his conviction also in 1998, but It was not until 2008 that Baldwin and Miskelley filed their Rule 37 petitions. For purposes of evaluation, I am including affidavits , exhibits and testimony excerpts from some of the expert witnesses at all three hearings and subsequent related appearance spanning from 1998- 2008.
Brent Turvey, of Knowledge Solutions, LLC trained under renowned blood spatter expert Dr. Henry Lee, did not consider any of the luminal reports when hired by Dan Stidham in 1998 for his expert opinion in his representation of Jessie Miskelley requesting a new trial. Turvey’s report found (here) was largely the impetus for future defense experts for all three defendants to “weigh in”.
While Turvey’s work was largely unsupported once his infamous “bitemark” was debunked and he bought into the “Baldwin knife” which has since been abandoned by all subsequent defense experts, as the first guy up at bat so to speak, his testimony demonstrated the burgeoning direction to the CSI Effect the West Memphis Three would take toward their ultimate freedom.
I explore Turvey’s initial observations taken directly from his report, in the beginning of each unique victim’s autopsy segment, followed by updated relevant expert information and my subsequent analysis.
Autopsy By Coroner- Autopsy By Proxy
In the interest of brevity, I intend to focus on the dissenting views of the experts, and I stipulate that in no report that I have reviewed, was there evidence of sodomy or object penetration of any of the boys.
While I believe Dr. Perretti’s prior experience with cases that involved same did form his opinion on the possibility as it relates to some of the injuries, I do not believe that such testimony should have been permitted at trial, nor would it be permitted today.
Memphis Triple Homicide May 5, 1993
James M. Moore #ME-329-93
Steve E. Branch #ME-330-93
Chris M. Byers #ME-331-93
LOCATION: On May 6th, 1993, all three victims were found, bound wrist to ankle with shoe laces, in the water of a drainage ditch, in a heavily wooded area called the Robin Hood hills, behind the Blue Beacon Truck Wash in West Memphis, Arkansas. An equivocal forensic examination of all available crime scene and autopsy photos, crime scene video, investigator’s reports, witness statements, family statements, autopsy reports and numerous other sources to be listed as referenced in the endnote section of this report. The purpose of this preliminary examination was to competently assess the nature of the interactions between the victims and their environments as it contributed to their deaths as indicated by available forensic evidence, and the documentation regarding that evidence.
James M. Moore
James Michael Moore autopsy found here.
The following forensic information is taken directly from the official autopsy report filed by Dr. Frank J. Peretti of the Arkansas State Crime Lab, Medical Examiner Division, dated 5-7-93, Case No. ME-329-93 and/ or from The official coroner’s report filed by Kent Hale, Crittenden County Coroner, dated 5-6-97.
The purpose of this section is not to present an all inclusive, detailed account and explanation of every piece of information in these reports, but rather to explore these reports, with the corresponding photos, for consistency, possible omissions, and to review injuries or patterns that this examiner deemed to be significant to the case.
Wound Pattern Analysis
This victim received more traumatic head injuries than any of the other victims in this case. Dr. Peretti states that defense wounds were present on the victim’s hands. These wounds were very few, indicating that victim was incapacitated quickly after the attack began. So the nature of these head injuries, and the limited defensive type wounds, combine to indicate sudden, forceful, and repeated blows that resulted in abraded contusions, multiple lacerations, and multiple skull fractures.
There is an unexplained directional pattern abrasion just below the victim’s right anterior shoulder area.
This unexplained injury does not correspond with any of the physical evidence collected at the location that victim was discovered. It is furthermore inconsistent with any of the naturally occurring elements that exist in that environment. The best conclusion that this examiner can reach is that this pattern abrasion was created by forceful, directional contact with something that was not found at that crime scene, whether it be a weapon, a surface or something else capable of creating that pattern.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did not leave deep furrows, and also did not leave abrasions. This indicates that the victim was not struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much unconscious when the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiners opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
When compared to the other two victims in this case, who were found at the same location, bound nude with shoelace ligatures in the same fashion, the most striking discrepancy is the lack of injuries suffered by this victim. In the crime scene and autopsy photos made available to this examiner, there were no readily discernible bite marks visible, the genitals have not been visibly disturbed or molested, and there are no discernible stab wounds. This lack of attention is very telling, and will be discussed in the Offender Characteristics section of this report. There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Analysis: I find the statement that he had the least amount of injuries, yet the most severe head injuries in dire conflict, as he died from multiple injuries, and drowning. The fractures to his head and lacerations to his left and front right skull were enough to cause his death within minutes on their own, and there can be no doubt that he received them while he was already unconscious because of the lack of injury at the ligature sites. There is very little hemorrhage involvement with the open lacerations, and all lacerations were abraded; one with a dovetail and upside down L producing an ovid fracture. In Jesse Miskelley’s confessions, he says one of them was moving as he was put in the water while he was leaving. I believe the reason he never mentioned that Michael Moore was beat about the head with an instrument of some kind is because he never saw that. Michael was located in the ditch just below the oak with the exposed root that had the luminol result “shaped like a V”, which would be consistent with him struggling to get out of that water, on that bank, with a cast off or blood spatter pattern consistent with someone beating him toward the bank and in front of that tree.
Mosquito bites: Only females take a blood meal, so that potentially reduces the population by 50%, and at no time will they bite a deceased person. They are attracted mostly by carbon dioxide, released from a breathing person. Both Dr. Haskell and Dr. Goff agreed to this ultimately.
What is further curious to me, is that while Turvey was hired by Miskelley, who confessed at least three times by the date of the generation of this report, does he not note the obvious discrepancy for the placement of Mike Moore upstream, or that he was found on his right side with the left side surfacing when in effect dislodged by Det. Mike Allen. Moore was also hogtied differently, with different knots than the other 2 victims, with ONE black shoelace. There is a reason that Turvey was not given Miskelley’s updated confession following his conviction, and instructed to disprove it; he would not have been able to.
Steven Edward Branch
Stevie Branch autopsy found here.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s face and head, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti, however, does not note the presence of extensive defensive wounds.
This indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The constellation of wounds are very similar to those inflicted on James Moore, however they are much more intense and include the victim’s face.
This level of attention paid to the victim’s face, in terms of depersonalization and rage, is indicative of familiarity and that will be explored later on in this report.
Furthermore, there is the existence of patterned injuries all over this victim’s face that could be bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis. [note: Dr. Thomas David, board certified forensic odontologist, has confirmed the wound as a human adult bitemark and excluded Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley as the offender using bite impressions obtained from the men in prison] Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting.
Another unidentified pattern compression abrasion can be found on the back of Steve Branch’s head. The source of this injury caused a 3? inch fracture at the base of the skull with multiple extension fractures that terminate in the foramen magnum (that’s the hole at the base of the skull where the spinal cord connects to the brain). Upon close examination, this pattern injury is consistent with compression made from footwear. Again, without better photos supplied to the examiner showing a variety of angles, it’s very difficult to make a positive identification of any kind. But the pattern is consistent with a footwear impression, and would require a footwear impression expert to analyze and make an informed, competent determination.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles. We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, as well as in the victim’s mouth, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts, again, suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiner’s opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
There is again a lack of evidence to support any sort of strangulation. Dr. Peretti states that his examination of the neck of this victim revealed no injuries, and the photos that this examiner has seen support that conclusion.
Analysis: He missed the wound to Stevie Branch’s penis entirely. While not contained in his formal autopsy report, it was proven during the trial that Dr. Peretti’s colleague was called into evaluate what Turvey was calling “bite marks” and was ruled out. The fact that bite impressions did not match Echols, Baldwin or Miskelley was in no way exculpatory, and I will save you the bite by some animal with a rough tounge report nonsense I had to read .
The 3” fracture at the base of the skull, which “spiderwebbed” into subsequent fractures, also very likely severed his spinal cord, so one must assume this injury was also quite perimortem.
Steve ‘s left face was found to be abraded on the entire left side, and is consistent with someone either stomping on right side of his neck and fracturing it, with an obvious boot print, if the left side of the face was on the ground.
The gouging wounds- likely had to be inflicted following the fracture due to the lack of hemorrhage in comparison to the severity of the wound, and all experts agreed the injury was likely perimortem. So the question becomes- why?
Seems like a very important question, second only to what caused the trauma, based on the constellation of terminal injuries already inflicted on him. Wouldn’t the only thing left to do at that point be to submerge him?
It is my theory- therein lies the problem. Byers was put in the ditch first, and we know he was already deceased, therefore, he sinks. Stevie Branch is placed in the water next to him, and he either begins moving or floats and the suspects thinks he is still alive, and uses an implement to force him into the ditch bottom until he succumbs and stays submerged. I will leave out the specifics of the gouging wound as to why I think that resulted in the usage of the other end of the ice axe on Michael Moore. The luminol result, found in the ditch bed itself, after it was drained, slightly downstream from Byers and Branch, but still upstream from Moore could also support this theory. We know that Byers had already bled out, but Branch was still alive when he was put into the water and the only significant bleeding wound on his person capable of leaving blood evidence in the bottom of the ditch to survive it simply being washed away in the creek, there is a high degree of probability he bled directly into the dirt. He was found face down.
Christopher Byers
Christopher Byers autopsy found here.
It should be noted that this victim’s injuries were the most extensive, most violent, and most overtly sexual of the all the victims in this case. The nature and extent of this victim’s wounds indicate that the assailant spent the most time with this victim.
Additionally, this victim’s toxicology report revealed non-therapeutic levels of carbamazepine in the blood. All of these differences are very important, and will be explored in the later sections of this report.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s head, specifically to the base of the skull. There was also evidence of the violent emasculation of the victim’s sex organs, extensive lacerations and bruising to the victim’s buttocks, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti also noted that there were numerous healed injuries of varying nature on this victim. Dr. Peretti, however, did not note the presence of defensive wounds.
Again, this indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The general constellation of wounds to this victim is more advanced, more extensive, more overtly sexually oriented and includes the use of a knife.
This knife was used not only to inflict multiple stabbing and cutting injuries to the victim’s inner thighs and genital area, it was used in the emasculation process. There is, unmentioned in either the ME’s or Coroner’s reports, what appears to be a clear impression of the knife handle on the right side of the large gaping defect left behind after the removal of the victims penis, scrotal sac, and testes. This was impression was created when the knife was thrust full length into the victim by the assailant, during the process of emasculation. This indicates forceful, violent thrusts. The nature of this emasculation, as indicated by these wounds, is neither skilled nor practiced. It was a rageful, careless, but purposeful act carried out in anger.
It is the opinion of this examiner that this injury would have resulted in massive, uncontrollable blood-loss, from which the victim could not have survived without immediate medical attention.
It should also be pointed out that the nature of the stab wounds inflicted on the victim’s genital area, separate from those received during the emasculation process, show marked irregular configuration and pulling of the skin. This indicates that either the knife was being twisted as the assailant stabbed the victim, or that the victim was moving as the blade was withdrawn.
The second set of injuries is described as five superficial cutting wounds on the left buttock (pictured on the left in this photo at the right). It should be noted that these injuries are actually lacerations, as indicated by the bridging between the open tissue, and the irregular edges. Both indicators are apparent upon close examination of the photographs. It is the opinion of this examiner that this set of injuries is most consistent with the parental whipping given to Chris Byers by Mark Byers. It is further the opinion of this examiner that after having received this set of injuries, which tore open the skin and would have resulted in some severe bleeding, the victim would have been unable to walk or ride a bicycle without incredible pain and discomfort.
The third set of injuries is the multiple linear superficial interrupted cuts on the right buttock region (pictured in the photo above on the right). These injuries are not consistent with having been made by a belt as they are cuts. The edges are not irregular, and the cuts are interrupted, again indicating movement by the victim or the assailant during the attack.
Furthermore, there is the existence of bruised ovoid compression injuries all over this victim’s inner thigh that could be suction type bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis.
Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints and positively identify a suspect. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting. The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that this victim did not drown, that is to say that no hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, or well in the victim’s mouth. This indicates that the victim was already dead when he was placed into the 2? ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills. This is, again, very different from the other two victims in this case.
Dr. Richard Souviron forensic odontologist: all mutilation is peri and post mortem, no knife was used.
On a final note, Mr. Hale states in his supplemental report on Chris Byers that there is a stab wound on his head. This is actually incorrect, and rectified by Dr. Peretti who states in his autopsy report of Chris Byers that the same injury is a 1¼-inch laceration to the left parietal scalp.
There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Additionally, unlike Steve Branch, there is no overkill present in this victim’s face. That is to say that this is another of the marked differences between the killings of Steve Branch and Chris Byers which is very important to note, and which will be explored more thoroughly in this report.
Recommendations
It is apparent from the physical evidence in this case that Chris M. Byers was attacked with sudden, violent force from which he defended himself in only a limited fashion. It appears as though this attack took place, at least in part, while his cloths were off and while the shoelace ligatures restrained him. He was sexually assaulted (an assault of a sexual nature, to areas of the body considered to be sexual, that does not include sexual penetration), and associated stab wounds indicate that he may have been conscious during several phases of the attack.
Analysis: How does he miss that the dosage of (car) was sub therapeutic, meaning below the level at which he was described and confuse it as non-therapeutic, in his estimation, as a possible means to subdue him. He completely missed the fact that it is likely that the level, found in his blood, was greatly reduced because there was very little blood volume left in his body. AND, it was a prescribed medication. Turvey does not mention the other factors that support Byers died first, and he died quickly and violently. While he did have stomach contents, he did not have any urine in his blatter and there was substantative evidence his bowels had evacuated at the scene, commonly a result of an immediate violent death.
Consensus or Conundrum- Depends Who You Ask
Regardless of which expert one believes, within the confines of each report, is the absence of the belief with any certainty that the “Baldwin” serrated knife was used. What they all agree on, is that the gouging injuries to Branch and Byers were very similar. They all agree that there was evidence of blunt force trauma, significant curvilinear fractures, what is commonly referred to in Forensic Pathology today as “chop wounds”, other sharp force trauma.
Thoughts onPost Mortem Animal Predation
I agree it is possible that snapping turtles could have caused what looks to be possible claw marks and at least one possible bite mark. I am emphasizing possible because I don’t think one can rule out animal predation 100%
Bryn Ridge himself testified he has seen snapping turtles in that area, some time ago. That said, there was not so much as a crawfish found in that creek as it was being pumped out, and that included a screen.
Dr. Spitz went as far as to suggest that somehow a carnivore of some kind was the cause of the animal predation although all oter evidence suggests that the boys were completely submerged, as well as their clothing, and there was obviously no animal tracks or other artifacts at the scene that would make that theory sound anything remotely believable. Thankfully, he stopped short of suggesting that a new breed of homicidal carnivores with a cleaner crew who could walk upright was responsible.
Fortunately I Dressed For Bushwhacking
Starting with one of the most important parts of the autopsy evidence, is the very fact that detectives knew VERY LITTLE about it outside of the cause of death, until late May at the earliest. So little in fact, that Gary Gitchell, Lead Investigator, wrote a list of follow up questions to the crime lab on May 26. (need link here)
Frank J. Peretti, MD preformed all three autopsies on May 7, 1993, and filed reports on May 10th for cause of death only. Those causes of death btw, were all listed as homicide by multiple injuries, period. Nobody knew that two boys died from drowning, and not all three. This is particularly concerning because the first conversation that Steve Jones and Det Sudbury had with Damien Echols was on May 7th prior to autopsy and in his subsequent interview with Det Bryn Ridge on May 10, when asked by Ridge how he knew about that, Echols told Ridge that Jones told HIM that whoever did this “urinated” in the mouths of the boys.
Urine was found in the stomachs of 2 of the victims, but that information was given by phone only to Gitchell, and not before May 16th, 1993. There is no possible way Damien Echols could have had case- specific information unless he was there or knew someone that was that told him what occurred, as the detective interviewing him at the time was clueless to that fact during the interview.
There are certainly many statements by both Echols and Miskelley prior to arrest that indicate they had prior knowledge of the murders, but I have been able to ride the see saw on those for the most part, like many.
The fact that Echols knew that there was urine in the stomachs of two victims, when it was intentionally ommitted from the report can only mean he was there, or knew someone who was, and in my opinion, both.
To be continued, West Memphis Three Part III
Sources:
Crime lab Index: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/crimelab.html
Chris Byers autopsy:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html
Michael Moore:
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cont part 2
Scott- you asked:
Mom, when talking about Jesse’s confessions, people love to speak of the lack of accuracy. By JM’s own admission, he was being deliberately deceitful in the initial confession. The “bible” confession took place 9 months after the day of the murders, could any of us remember exact details after that time period, I really don’t think so. How can you explain what Jesse did get right? How can you explain Jesse spilling his guts in he car ride immediately following the trial? I have always thought Jesse felt remorse for what he did, hence his own mother admitting he would wake up screaming and crying in the middle of the night for weeks after the murders occurred.
If the only confession Jesse made would have been his first, I could see not believing it. It’s just that Jesse’ confessions begin to point more toward actual involvement after the second, third, fourth, and fifth one. It is my opinion that those subsequent confessions, simply cannot be argued against.
___
Good points Scott, youre right, those that choose to disregard JM confessions/statements do so by pointing out the inaccuracy.
If I may for a second- get off the fence, lets for a moment say that I am squarely on the “nons” side-
As a “non I would NOT argue the “truth” of JM confessions as evidence pointing to their guilt-
Why not- because it is too easily disregarded- and unprovable
JM has only proven that he is willing to lie and change his lies as he sees fit-
1- the first confession-
- I am not going to factor it into evidence of their guilt- why?
because it was complete baloney-
JM had the times wrong
He had the names wrong
He had the occult witches crap in there-
and he had the bindings wrong-
2 bible confession
I would disregard it Why?
Because it was riddled with incorrect details on the area- on the boys -and on the details of the crime- AND it again still had occult BS in it-
The time span is inaccurate- there is no way that all of the events could have occurred in the time period it was said to have occurred- there is no collaborative evidence that JM gave that can point to his being there and participating- and what he did get right could be attributed to details he learned at trial
I have no problem as a “non” in not factoring JM’s confessions into the evidence of guilt- why? because of his willingness to lie and come up with new stories- and his total lack of remorse which points to his ability to commit these murders and blissfully go off and wrestle and eat dinner- it also proves that he is unwilling to show remorse or factor in his own culpability-
Once a liar always a liar- he is the worst one of the three because he has no problem relishing in his deed- he taunts Police by making a tip call about a strange man- he is thriving on the fear he has brought about in his friends- and the community-he torments Aaron, filling his head with scary devil crap. He eggs vicki on, filling her head with rumors and lies about DE- and he eggs her on in her dreams of solving the crime- he is getting off on staying with Aaron and Vicki to “protect them” he uses Vicki as his hold over DE and JB- he taunts JB and DE with his doings- and his going into the police-ect
He is the ring leader- he tells DE you better come and meet with Vicki or else- DE comes and is taped- JM knows there is no occult angle to this crime- he is getting off on stirring the pot with complete lies and innuendo and rumors- He is not crying at night he is laughing -it was never DE and JB as the main perps- it was JM the kid who loves to beat up people- and doesnt care how old they are- he loves to steal bikes- and is totally fine with backstabbing a friend to steal his bike and then holds a grudge on the friend when he steals it back from the girl DM gave it too…
I dont need JMs confessions all I need is the fact that he loves to confess to lies and get cheeseburgers and cokes and talk to his daddy and he likes to hide behind his “slowness” it tends to make people think he is incapable of hurting people with malice a forethought like Lenny in “Of Mice or Men”- he didnt mean to, it wasnt his fault…
If I were a “non” this is how I would see the confessions- I would disregard everything that was said in them and take them at face value only- JM knows what he is doing and he is fine with it all- even if it means spending his life in prison- hell its better then what his future holds in ARK right? Everyone always said he wouldnt amount to much anyway-
And what are JB and DE gonna do cry liar? – He did it! It was him! he made us! he started it and we finished it! We had no choice but to help? How would that play to a jury considering poor JM is a feeble minded kid who came forward and “confessed”?
Its all in how you look at it, right?
AJMO cont part 3
Real quick –
BLINK, thanks for the compliment regarding the link, but it wasn’t mine. I believe it was Mom3?
Grace (love the name) thank you for the information! I just can’t imagine not being eaten alive by a guilty conscience.
bbl
Okay Scott-
Sorry I had to break my thoughts up- now Ill answer your questions from my own point of view- You wrote:
Mom, when talking about Jesse’s confessions, people love to speak of the lack of accuracy. By JM’s own admission, he was being deliberately deceitful in the initial confession. The “bible” confession took place 9 months after the day of the murders, could any of us remember exact details after that time period, I really don’t think so. How can you explain what Jesse did get right? How can you explain Jesse spilling his guts in he car ride immediately following the trial? I have always thought Jesse felt remorse for what he did, hence his own mother admitting he would wake up screaming and crying in the middle of the night for weeks after the murders occurred.
If the only confession Jesse made would have been his first, I could see not believing it. It’s just that Jesse’ confessions begin to point more toward actual involvement after the second, third, fourth, and fifth one. It is my opinion that those subsequent confessions, simply cannot be argued against.
__ Scott, it seems to me that Jesse was being deliberately deceitful in ALL his statements and “confessions” not just the first one- and lets keep in mind that as a fact- Jesse at first denied knowing anything-
Next- We know he was either lying about the the events and the timeframe- or he was just wrong and didnt know the details and the times until they became known through questioning or rumors or trial or other…because in each statement it is different-
we know he was lying about the clothing-or at least his clothing because his description changes.And most nons think he was lying about the trench coats..
We know he was lying about what happened to the boys and how, and why, and in what sequence, because it changes frequently and his statements are riddled with “and stuff” and “then I left” and the statements are often times a jumbled mess where sequence couldnt have happened in that order- and often times he is prompted to go back and fix these statements- either by leading questioning or other.
He admits he is lying about the car, but sticks to the orgy lie, and we know he was lying about the eating dogs and boiling them in grease- but he does not admit he was lying about the DE doppelganger or the witches meetings or the devil talk, yet he does not bring up the candles ect- he admits he was lying about the briefcase, but does not admit to lying about the pic- he lies about drugs and coke in the baggies but then says he was drunk and they were drinking… when previously this had never been mentioned…he lied about the gun, but then it is never mentioned,in subsequent statements or it is glossed over ect ect..
He admits to being there, but he was never “there” he didnt see or couldnt see, yet the details he gives seem to be narrated in the first person…
He never says what any of the conversations were- what the little boys said ect – he never mentions the sheriffs star or the broken bike reflector- he gets the boys wrong and seems only to know MM for certain later, because he is the one in the boys scout shirt- he never describes any of the clothing of the other two boys and never calls them by their names, yet he most often describes “the blonde one-” and details regarding him, and Chris not MM….
Although he describes in detail, some gruesome details most of which are later proven false (anal rape ect) he never goes into morbid gruesome detail about any other detail- not the way the skull “sounded” when hit, not the spurting of blood or the gurgling of breath- or their pleas for survival- or the smells….ect-
For someone that was there, his confessions are devoid of any real details that surely would stand out and haunt someone that is crying out in the night and is full of remorse- and later wants “something done”
He is willing to place himself there, as more of an observer- happily pointing his finger at DE and JB but then refuses to testify…He does not recognize an actual map of the area but has no problem in detailing exactly where a person was at any given moment when asked…although he does give wrong details on the area throughout each of his confessions IRT the pipe the water depth and the surroundings..
Nons say his drinking clouded his remembrance ect and he was only there once- yet he recalls alot of non helpful details such as remembering who carried what to the scene- and the hiding before the boys came over, or the calling them over, depending on what version …he also recalls being mad at JB and DE for what they did, and breaking an Evan Williams bottle….
Scott, he didnt get very many details right, at least not the pertinent details right, and certainly not the details that were not already known or thought to be known- and the same question can be asked for Morgan and others who did get details right but were cleared….. as for his car ride confession, sorry- but I disregard this confession also- if you cant explain why he confessed wrongly the previous times surely you cant explain his need to confess wrongly after the trial- and as for getting further details right- well was each statement recorded- and what was said before each statement were details given- we know he was shown the newspaper clipping- which gave their names and descriptions-he is not incapable of retaining info- he can remember things- otherwise how could he remember anything ever?- he would be like Drew Barrymore in 50 First dates…right?- so this argument is moot- I cant answer why he would- just as you cant answer why he got so much wrong and he was willingly deceitful to LE and admitted to playing with them….. yet you say you think he was remorseful and that is why he “spilled” his guts- he didnt he lied some more—
and if you believe he did it, then he was not remorseful, nor did he take responsibility “He wanted something done” to the other two he didnt want to be facing LI Prison alone- and realizing this, one has to question if he pointed the finger at two innocent kids because he was incapable of facing what he did- by himself, or with other none named accomplices-
His confessions point to more and more involvement because – he already said what he did and what DE and JB did- what would he have confessed to, if he did not add details and “fluff” up the lies?
he had to give them more details and put himself “outthere” further- otherwise what good was his tall tales?
If you acknowledge that he was deceitful than how can you be sure that he is telling the truth about DE and JB- he may have offered them up to save the real perps and throw LE off on his culpability….You dont know and we cant be sure of any “truth” in the confessions.
We dont know why Jesse confessed or why he lied or why he was crying or IF he was crying- he never brought this “fact” up in his confessions-
Anything and everything can be argued in this case Scott- because everything is surrounded by doubt- even “nons” have more then one theory on the confessions and Bojangles and LE and Vicki and Aaron and all the rest- if you were all so sure- then there would be only one theory of why and how and when and it would all be backed up with evidence.
-
Trust me, Scott it is better just to disregard JM and his confessions as “evidence” while searching for the truth, none will be found there- certainly not enough to point toward the guilt of all 3-and nothing that can be taken as fact-
Thanks for asking for my opinions Scott- and I look forward to hearing more of yours.
AJMO
Respectfully Mom 3.0, the poignance of the bible confession is not the length of time it occurred after the murders, it is relative to the fact that it occurred with his counsel, who CLEARLY believed him, following his conviction, and with nothing to gain whatsoever, and no deal on the table, with his atty fighting to get him to listen to his appeal options.
Dan Stidham did not grab a bible for drama purposes, he asked for one in a cold sweat because HE KNEW Jesse would tell him the truth, he mentions it in the interview. This “confession” is tantamount to, HELL, it is work product, never to be heard by the public, because Stidham worked his ass off to try to get Jesse NOT to agree to a deposition. His first order of business following the “interview”?
They search for the whiskey bottle and THEY FIND IT.
All I know, is that if our task is to follow where the evidence leads us, and allow IT to tell the story, instead of theory, not one person can present a viable alternative scenario in the vicious murder of 3 eight your old babies that belies the three now convicted of this crime, actually murdered them.
I continue to wonder why if the other 2 are so adamant that Jessie is mentally retarded ( not my words) why they would not seek more support for him as an organization.
To date, Damien Echols is the only one of the 3 I am aware of, who has sought and in HIS Affidavits, proclaimed themselves to be incapacitated and incapable of employment for various mental afflictions.
Mom 3.0, I believe you said you reviewed the Piers Morgan interview, don’t you find it odd that given the fact that he mounted a several hundred page appeal based on his prior significant prior mental health issues and incidents associated with same, he stated the worst he ever did as a kid was “try to run away or something” at one time.
I was on the floor. Which is it for him? He petitions the Govt to pay for sustaining his existence because he cannot, or he is better all of sudden and the past is bullshit, whatever.
Why is he flat out lying about it.
Not cool, not indicative of innocence, imo.
B
Still trying to catch-up-
Blink I always listen to wisdom
cattail-
thanks for giving your thoughts on supporters(Johhny Depp) “silence”
Your thoughts are no more or less feasible than anyone elses its all conjecture at this point right?
Both you and Blink and others make good points-
Perhaps Mr. Depp is silent because he is not happy with the way things turned out either- I would think that he would have rather had the 3 exonerated and proven innocent- rather than the Alford plea and this Limbo- obviously he is a good guy- he was looking for the truth, and if it is as Blink hints- He or someone associated with him, came here to BOC and to her for her thoughts…
That says to me that he is not dumb, and his motivations are “good”
I would very much like to hear from Mr. Depp, as I respect him for searching out the truth, and for actually knowing the facts of the case- and not just relying on a documentary or two-
I feel I must point out, that even though Blink has posted her thoughts, and most of her analysis- much like everyoneelses thoughts on weapon or motive or the 500 or the 3 ect- her analysis can not be proven, but just like other expert testimony (except that Occult guy) her opinions/analysis must be given its weight.
Is Blinks hard work enough to prove their guilt? No,IMO, not at this time, so I would think Mr Depp is contemplating its weight and other factors ect.
I hope to hear from Mr. Depp in the future, almost as much as I hope to read Blinks part 3…LOL
AJMO
Instant Classic, ROTFL.. ( that occult guy)…. OMG thanks for that.
B
I know it is going to seem like I am being a board hog- I apologize for the many consecutive posts- but I dont know when I’ll have another free moment so – here I am-
RE-
CC from MI says:
October 2, 2011 at 8:39 pm
Hi CC- Thank you for voicing your appreciation on my posts. Im Glad to have you as one of the fence-sitters CC.
Piers Morgan- I agree, this interview was rather lacking- mostly PM marveling over much ado about nothing- I agree LOL-
I however, thought some interesting details came from DE and JB despite PM’s short comings.
CC- I can understand why you were bothered with DE’s admission IRT the lack of detail given surrounding his one arrest-but I do not blame him for not going into great detail with PM as PM seemed to not want to hear any long drawn out complicated responses… and I think in fairness, DE’s arrest and charges, all were in relation to that one runaway incident- as I have opined before-
Thanks for bringing the Bartoush statement over CC. I had read that before and its just my opinion that it doesnt ring true. Although I agree that it is shocking and gives one pause especially if taken as fact-
FWIW here are my thoughts-
Great Danes are large animals- and expensive animals- they are not mutts which roam about trailer courts. This breed of dogs are someones beloved and cherished pets. They cost alot of money. There was never any missing Great Danes reported, and no owner ever came forward to claim DE or anyoneelse for that matter, took or killed their beloved Marmaduke.
As for the details of this statement, it reads at first- as if Bartoush is acknowledging DE was putting a sick dog out of its misery-some people who can not afford a vet’s care -choose to handle things this way- they consider it putting their animals “out of their misery”and do see it as cruel.
As for the rest- DE stomping on the dog to “make its eyes pop out of its skull” well it seems to me, if DE wanted the skull as a mantle piece, which we are led to believe that he did- as he had a skull, right (only he says he found the dog dead already) the last thing he would want to do is damage the skull by stomping on it to make the eyeballs “pop out” and as for gutting it, and “pulling out the intestines”- nope, I dont think it would have happened that way either- especially if DE had damaged the dogs ribs ect with violent “stomping”- I would think its hard to pull intestines free once a corpse is smooshed- and sorry to say- but alot of the insides would have came out its rear end/mouth ect- as anyone that has ever seen road kill can attest to… IMO
And remember rumors were flying- later this story became part of DE wore the intestines around his neck ect- is it so hard to believe that a mercy killing of a stray sick mutt morphed into a tale of DE killing and gutting and wearing intestines of a black Great Dane- much more ghoulish and makes a better story, right?
Before anyone asks “why would JB’s cousin lie”- I do not know why- why does anyone?
Go to any High school in America and listen to the rumors and the speed with which they grow and morph- heck its been going on for forever- many a teens life has been ruined by the rumor mill-lies and innuendo and exaggerations
AJMO
Morgan says:
(Thought we needed a moment of levity here!)
October 6, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Grace (love the name) thank you for the information! I just can’t imagine not being eaten alive by a guilty conscience.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are welcome, Morgan, and thank you for all your interesting posts. I know it is hard for someone who is as caring and compassionate as you to imagine not being eaten up by the guilt. I feel the same way. Having been raised Roman Catholic, guilt is etched into every fiber of my being. I confess every time I eat the last few bites of Ben and Jerry’s before my husband can get to it!
But on a serious note: It is often said individuals have to have a conscience in order to feel guilt. Many who study human behavior and emotions do not believe it is that cut and dried. Some criminals are virtual wizards at compartmentalizing their emotions, including their guilty feelings. In other words, it’s not that they are absent a conscience in all areas of their lives, but they can shut out their bad acts and feelings of guilt far better than most of the rest of us can.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mom3.0: that “occult guy” mention in your above post had me laughing out loud. You DO have a wicked good sense of humor…and impeccable timing!
Btw, I do agree with you that if the WM3 don’t look for any other possible perps, they are stuck under that cloud. LE has closed the case. I think we will see them push for pardons.
GraceintheHills says:
October 6, 2011 at 11:08 pm
Thank you for your generous and thoughtful words, earlier (regarding my sharing mental health experiences). I’m not used to that kind of compliment. I’m used to repelling friends and being told I’m simply lazy and not trying enough (every hateful comments). You are an angel right here on earth and I embrace your love and kindness.
@ Mom3.0.
You know I love you, I pray you do! With deep respect and love, I disagree with your comment about Blink’s inability to prove guilt. It’s certainly your struggle and very real to you. I respect that very much.
Blink doesn’t need me to stand up for her. I do want to say out of anyone here, she’s done her homework WITH relevant information, evidence, documents, records….you name it…at her finger tips. Let’s not forget her connections close to the case. She has access that most of us do not. The ones who do, interestingly enough, are of the same opinion as Blink. I find that necessary to consider posters who have similiar resources and backgrounds (Lucy and jack dobson come to mind….sorry if I’ve missed any names). I’ve disagreed, minimally, on some of her opinions and comments. Never on an entire piece.
I still believe it’s crucial to debate what’s put down with facts and evidence. You’ve done that impeccably. I still struggly with how you come to probably not guilty. That’s JMHO. I tend to put little weight on theories but they do lend to the possibilities. My opinion was influenced with the information provided by Blink. It was also influenced by what I’ve read…..and I just can’t get past the fact that this is a small town. Who else could have done this? Put the shoddy investigation aside. These dudes implicated themselves and each other.
Love and light, sweet friendy, Mom3.0
My previous post reads as if I’m on my 3rd glass of wine. Sorry for poor editting. I guess I must accept that’s something I’m not good at.
Hello everyone- I havent had a chance to catch up and answer every ones posts yet- I apologize-
First, I feel obligated to respond to the wise BOC commander- Blink, as without her, where would we be??
Hello Blink- Glad, I could give you a laugh IRT the experts.
I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts on my post to Scott.
Before I respond, I just want to let you know that it is very awkward for me to debate you – as you know, I respect and value your opinions a great deal, and I find it very hard to openly disagree with you…it feels almost disrespectful, and I do not want to disrespect you, or offend you in any way.
So please, understand that is not my intention. It is no way a reflection of my respect of you or your thoughts or hard work ect.
So if its alright, I am just going to pretend that I am not responding/debating you directly- but just discussing my thoughts ect with just another poster okay?
I am going to break my thoughts into two separate posts – one discussing JM’s confessions and one in which I feel more comfortable discussing PM and DE – with you directly Blink, okay?
Hope that makes sense
Thanks
To just another poster:
IMO Jesse’s “bible” confession is not poignant- unless it is poignant in the sense of the definition- as “designed to make an impression”- because to me, this is the only way the description of poignant applies-
Jesse was confessing to leave an impression- it goes without saying that any new “confession” would have to go unto further detail- and further descriptions of the events ect-
This new confession was designed to make an impression all right-one that would resonate with anyone willing to overlook the previous confessions, in addition to this confession – ie all the inconsistencies, all the leading questions, all the wrong details and all the meandering jumbled sequencing of times, places, and of the actual murders- before, during, and after- this is the “new improved” confession- one in which Jesse must add some more “truth” because LE and everyone knows the first confessions were sorely lacking in facts ect-
LE was hoping Jesse would finally clue them into the details of “and stuff” So, with this in mind, JM does add personal touches, and descriptions that would fool the casual observer, or anyone desperately trying to believe him-
IMO as I said, even if I were a “non” I would not factor JM statements -NONE of them- into the evidence…
Not even the bible confession-
To me it is much like Casey Anthony’s “Version 3.0″ she needed a new lie one that incorporated some of the actual facts of the case, lies that were not so easily disproved by the evidence… lies that were wrapped up in details the average person would never dare make up- you know, the awful details of having her fathers penis in her mouth at the tender age of eight- and her daddy taking her accidentally drowned babu’s body,and disposing of her- all occurring sometime in the morning or afternoon, no morning, after daddy chastised her and degraded her into submission with “Look what youve done- your mother will never forgive you!” ….You know those kind of details-
Who would make up such lies? And why change the story at all- because the known facts dictated she must- really who would make up such detailed horrible lies?
Lies like the rape of 3 little innocent boys… but later changing the facts to fit the evidence- you know like DE didnt really put it in…he just sort of did… poof- instant “truth” because this detail, actually may fit with no evidence of anal tears….and lies of sacrificing animals or boiling dogs in wash tubs of grease or the eating of dogs… poof- never mind I was only saying it for something to say it never really happened..I was only joshing….and lies of orgies in the woods… and lies of victims and perps frolicking in the filthy cold ditch- and going down on one another…. and the added personal detail of- I couldnt go in the water, not me -ear problems, dont cha know… none of which can be denied or proven false, as the victims are dead, and the “accomplices” arent talking, and the girls and other members of the “cult”, you know, Lucifer and DE’s doppleganger- they just cant be found…. although if one is to believe JB’s ”confession” to Carson, then JM was lying again, about the castration and the aftermath of flinging it in a tree- as JB “confessed” to playing with it, and sucking the blood and dismembering them all and ofcourse we must not forget actually having the testes in his mouth….
Back to JM-and the other details of JM confessions that may fit the evidence- like the wounds on the little victims ears, you know, which LE asked about..the forced fellatio and all the rest, like little MM running away- and the horrible castration details,( although again, they do not match JB’s horrifying details conveyed over a friendly game of cards) …
and the bindings, later morphing into shoe strings… the serrated knives, the barkless club ( yet no mention of the ice axe ect)…. perhaps because it was not mentioned at trial or by LE, or his lawyer…so he couldnt lie and incorporate it cuz he wasnt aware of it… but there were other details- all details supplied through questioning and thru rumors or media or at trial or – trial and error that is- you know, if at first you get it wrong- try- try again, eventually someone will clue you into the “right” answer…
…what about the 12 pack in the sack?- gee, I guess its real convenient that they were mindful of littering- cuz if not -like most teens who are sneaking alcohol and partying in the woods- they didnt just willy nilly crush the cans or throw the bottles on the ground- heck no- they were always planning on taking them home with them…seeing how they just happened upon the little boys and the murder wasnt planned- oh wait- it WAS according to JM- cuz of that confession about the doppleganger and the pic and the phone call to “get some girls” you know, the one that JM says there was no set time to meet up- it was just “whenever on Wednesday” ect ect
At this time Jesse did not have much to lose- but again, he did have much to gain at least enough to pay off in the immediate future- IE- hamburgers, cokes, LE’s attention, and time away from prison- and payback to his ineffective counsel- his lawyer who failed in saving him from LIP.
It does matter when this confession was given, as Jesse had just sat through his trial and heard all of the details and the facts and He also had just sat through his own lawyers case and I am sure his counsel explained the goings on and what their plan was ect- in addition to this, IMO- we must also remember these facts and details were presented complete with demonstrative aids- showing maps and pictures and diagrams and victims and the crime scene and the murder victims ect.-
Despite all this, JM STILL got details wrong- even with all the leading questions- which his council desperately tried not to utilize, to no avail, JM still could NOT orientate himself to the scene, or to the victims, or to the sequence of events/time ect ect.
But wait, he gave the new detail of the drinking and the carrying the Evan Williams bottle in the brown paper sack, and being too drunk to hit too hard.. and ofcourse he said he threw it away under a bridge and Lo and behold – when they looked for this bottle under the bridge they found a bottle- one that MIGHT match- although there are no finger prints or bloody smears, or DNA on the lip of the bottle it IS broken- although the sack is not there, and ofcourse we know, many a bottle, especially broken ones, can be found by the shovel full under many bridges everday…but THIS is undeniable PROOF that JM was there- and that his confession is spot on THE TRUTH…. sigh, sorry but this is not proof to me not even close.
Stidman ofcourse did not want his client making any statements, certainly not before a mental examination took place- I would advise my client in much the same way if I were a lawyer,- as would any lawyer, and much of it has to do with whether or not I believed the client to be innocent- which Stidman believed his client was innocent-AND he believed him to be one of those innocent clients who unfortunately is prone to falsely confessing and being susceptible to leading questions ect ect-
I do not think Stidman believed him, I think Stidman was actually faltering in disbelief- WTF are you doing Kid? God help me, help him, I know- grab a bible, no way this kid will continue to lie right? I know – Ill stop asking him leading questions or yes and no questions… Ill have him tell me what happened in his own words- WTF you dont understand-you cant? Huh?!! I believe with all my heart this kid is innocent why else would I give him a bible?!…. This cant be happening… this is a nightmare… what do I tell his poor dad?
Stidman didnt “know” he would tell the truth if given a bible- (besides, clearly JM didnt tell the complete truth- that is non-debatable right?) I think he HOPED the bible would make JM tell the truth) which Stidman obviously thought was he was innocent)- it didnt- JM lied and he gave ANOTHER false confession.
AJMO
Part 2 to Blink-
Mom3.0
You have laid out a very good case regarding the confessions of Jessie. In looking beyond the actual words and trying to find the motive behind them. Good thinking and writing as usual.
In regards to the Great Dane dog, that is total fabrication IMO.
As you point out, great danes are huge dogs weighing up to 250 lbs. or more. To attack an animal of that size is insanity unless the dog is already so ill it is down.
Blink remembered the whisky bottle incident and the fact that the detectives and attorneys actually found a matching bottle in the exact location that Jessie said he threw it away.
Jessie IMO is playing the whole case with his supposedly lack of intelligence. I believe he had a conscience that would make him try to tell the truth, but he never could quite get to that point. Always shading truth to make it look as if he had little to do with the crimes. It takes practice to do that type of thing. Did anyone ever look far enough into Jessie’s background to see if this was his normal mode of behavior? I have no evidence of such an investigation.
Some people who do not want to be held responsible for their acts, will tell tall tales and outright lies to escape responsibility. The C-word is a recent example of such behavior. Is Jessie in reality a sociopath hiding under the cloak of poor intelligence? IDK.
Part 1 cont with part 2
To Blink
Hi Blink- in your thoughts to me you wrote in part:
snipped-
All I know, is that if our task is to follow where the evidence leads us, and allow IT to tell the story, instead of theory, not one person can present a viable alternative scenario in the vicious murder of 3 eight your old babies that belies the three now convicted of this crime, actually murdered them.
I continue to wonder why if the other 2 are so adamant that Jessie is mentally retarded ( not my words) why they would not seek more support for him as an organization.
To date, Damien Echols is the only one of the 3 I am aware of, who has sought and in HIS Affidavits, proclaimed themselves to be incapacitated and incapable of employment for various mental afflictions.
Mom 3.0, I believe you said you reviewed the Piers Morgan interview, don’t you find it odd that given the fact that he mounted a several hundred page appeal based on his prior significant prior mental health issues and incidents associated with same, he stated the worst he ever did as a kid was “try to run away or something” at one time.
I was on the floor. Which is it for him? He petitions the Govt to pay for sustaining his existence because he cannot, or he is better all of sudden and the past is bullshit, whatever.
Why is he flat out lying about it.
Not cool, not indicative of innocence, imo.
—
Blink with the utmost respect, and with a little bit of apprehension, I must point out that if we are following the evidence and allowing IT to lead us, instead of theory- we as your devoted readers must disregard almost all of your hard work- as it is based on theories- not 100% provable facts or evidence….
As compelling and as interesting as your pieces have been, they at this time can not be proven as undeniable 100% proof.
Blink, the luminol COULD have been a false reading, as I opined before…
The ice ax – is lost and the pics are horrible and the measurements were never taken…
The urine statement COULD have been just another well known occult detail known and discussed by SJ when he visited DE…
The 500 COULD just be another sad history of a troubled, although, innocent of murder- kids life
Blink, in truth, these three little boys COULD have been murdered by a yet unknown assailant or assailants- much like the thousands of little innocent victims whose murders are as of yet unsolved- all with no known POI at all. This scenario is more viable, IMO- then these three teens are definitely the killers and they left no DNA or trace evidence ect behind.
Blink, I think they do not owe Jesse anything- whether or not he is disabled or not-why would they?jesse has supporters who are willing and able to lend a helping hand, and he has something more important- he has a family, a father, that loves him and accepts him.
Blink I understand your thoughts on DE’s self claim of ailments ect- but to me this is not such a big deal- especially to anyone that has ever worked with dirt poor people- that come from a dysfunctional family and background- DE was trying to get SSI- it is not uncommon for people to bolster their claims- that is why the government is so thorough in its investigations ect.
I did watch the PM interview and no I dont find it odd that DE did not go into great detail about his past- this was not that kind of interview- PM was not asking the hard questions and he didnt want indepth answers- heck he barely let the 2 get a word in edge wise.
Blink- with much respect I feel I must point out that he was an 18 year old kid- – and yes he did petition the government for assistance and he just may in fact be “better” now- I do not think it has to be one or the other- in fact, it may be a combination of all three- he bolstered the claims, he did suffer from “afflictions” and he is “better” now….
Blink as i said before I do not think DE is “flat out” lying about his past- he said he ranaway once and if he had continued- that would have led into other details- I think you should be mad at PM for not researching and following up with probing questions designed to garner more info such as well DE isnt it true that this incident also involved a charge of sexual misconduct and one for terroristic threats- could you tell us about that… I do not think any ex-con, whether they were falsely accused of the crime or if they were guilty would offer up any more details then they have to- as it would lead to unwanted negative attention-assumptions and biases ect…
To me, Blink, DE’s unwillingness to speak without reservations – to withhold all of his past problems- or refraining from putting it all “outthere” again is not indicative of his guilt- it is indicative of his knowing that his words and past deeds can lead people- SJ and LE, and people like the jurors, or the hundreds of “nons” to believe he committed these atrocious murders-
I can not fault him for not wanting to share it all and supply more ammo.
AJMO
Respectfully submitted-
Thanks
Ragdoll says:
October 7, 2011 at 1:37 pm
Ragdoll, if I lived any where near you, or knew you personally, I would not allow anyone to disparage you so.
Not having said enough about my beloved brother before, I will now. As previously mentioned he’s a good ole ‘Bama Boy, who’d give the shirt off his back to any one for the mere asking. He’s always been that way. Faithful to God and true to a fault, he’s the best person I know who’s heart is of pure gold – but he has his issues. His entire personality changed following an accident that resulted in a severe head injury. Since then he’s not been the same. The seizures he suffers are the least of his worries, though he can no longer work in the field he once did. Construction. Ladders are out of the question for him. He may seize and fall, and has, off a roof, when he didn’t take his med. Tegretol. It’s the depression, born of his inability to do all that he used to in order to provide for his family and to be a more normal husband and father, he struggles with, which is oftentimes severe enough to cause him to contemplate suicide saying, “Everyone would be better off without me.” I’ve been hours and hours talking him up from his down and convincing him of his need to take the anti-depressants prescribed, as prescribed, and not when he’s hit rock bottom.
You know how it goes, right? He’ll take his meds regularly, feel better about himself and the world, and then stop taking them believing he’s “all better” when he’s not. Before picking up the pill bottle, in desperation, he will often self medicate, via alcohol, though he knows drinking does nothing but further depress him. It’s like living on a roller coaster. Up down up down and around we go.
He’s lost so many friends and so many within the family fail to understand that it’s not as easy as “Just take your pill and you’ll be fine.” Or, when he’s beating himself up so badly for being so inadequate one or the other will say, “Get over yourself, already!”
Then there are those of us, friends and family alike, who have learned over the years sometimes the best we can do and all we can do is to patiently listen, and when all of his guts have been spilled then we are better able to help him to see all of the reasons he has for living, and for trying again, but not before.
He has to be allowed to feel what he feels and think what he’s thinking without the passing of judgment or dismissing his thoughts and his high anxieties. It isn’t easy but as I said, he’s the best person so many of us know, and when he’s more himself, it makes all the efforts worthwhile.
I certainly hope that there are those in your life who see you for the most wonderful, caring, giving, compassionate, intelligent, selfless person you have proven yourself to be to all of us here, Ragdoll. Truly.
xxoo
Mom3.0 says:
October 7, 2011 at 8:26 pm
Mom3, you never cease to amaze me with your most thorough assessments and presentations of the evidences, and I readily admit that every now and then you cause me to wonder if I’ve not jumped over to the wrong side of the fence! But then I remind myself of a few simple facts such as, Damien Echols lied on the stand when he said he’d read in a newspaper that one of the boys had been mutilated more than the other two. IIRC, on cross, the prosecution got Echols to admit there was no mention of this in the paper. So why did he lie and say that it was from the newspaper that he got this information, when he did not?
The fiber evidence also isn’t mere theory, it’s fact. The fibers found at the crime scene and on clothing belonging to Echols were microscopically similar and who’s to say the fibers didn’t come from Echols? And then there’s the serrated knife I’m not so willing to dismiss because I think the odds are too great that Echol’s would have owned such a knife engraved with the words “Special Forces Survival Roman Numeral Two” on the blade, which were identical to the words on the blade of the knife found behind Baldwin’s, in the lake. What are the odds of that happening? So the one knife didn’t have a compass. Who’s to say it wasn’t removed or that it didn’t fall off? Dr. Peretti testified that some of the wounds on the boys were consistent with that knife. I know that most have but as yet I cannot discount that knife.
Having known and worked with a whole lot of kids, mentally challenged and otherwise, I’d dare to say of Misskelly that though he may be “slow” he is not “retarded”, but has learned through the years to use that as a crutch, whenever he needs to excuse himself of some wrongdoing or misunderstanding.
For the life of me I can’t imagine that Misskelly would have traded his soul, or his freedom, for a Big Mac, a coke, and the hope of going home if he’d only confess to his involvement in the murders. Even a three year old knows when to lie to get themselves out of a whole lot of trouble. “I din’t do it!” They hardly ever back down! Imo Misskelly was trying hard to distance himself from the actual murders and in so doing was grasping at straws or whatever explanation he thought, in his more simple mindedness, that LE would buy, so his story kept changing. That he changed his story so many times is not proof of his innocence, to me, but his desperation to be charged with as little as was possible to be charged with.
Then too there’s the matter of Christopher Byers and whether he bled to death or not, and whether surgically talented snapping turtles skinned his little wee-wee and snacked on his testicles. A turtle capable of doing such damage would have taken the whole penis, not merely skinned it and besides, there were cuts (not scratches) on the insides of Christopher’s thighs as well as around his anus. Cuts, not scratches, that caused him to bleed so that it’s quite probable that he bled to death whereas the other two drowned. I’m no medical marvel but I don’t put too much stock into an expert who is testifying for the defense saying that he wouldn’t have been able to dismember Christopher in such a manner in the dark. He was a little boy, not a bull moose.
Even as Misskelly said there was expert testimony substantiating sexual battery of both Byers and Branch. The Arkansas Supreme Court described the injuries to Stevie stating that penile injuries indicated that oral sex had been performed on him. Why would there have been semen evidence in that? Peretti I believe determined that oral/facial injuries were consistent with the boys being forced to perform oral sex, and again, why would one expect to find semen in the mouths of the boys who had be submerged in water for so long, and who’s to say their assailants ejaculated in the mouths of the boys? Why would they have left such evidence?
There’s much more to be said as I find it difficult to fathom that one perpetrator, such a Byers, Hobbs or Bojangles would have had enough time to capture, restrain, so injure, mutilate, murder and then sink the bodies of three little boys into the ditch and the mud along with their clothing and then smooth out the bank and gather their belongings before walking away. That would better be accomplished, imo, one on one. Imo at least one of them would have gotten away had there only been one attacker, and according to Misskelly one of the boys did attempt to flee. It’s said of Stevie that his body had irregular gouging wounds indicating that he was moving when he was stabbed. There are many inconsistencies in Misskelly’s confessions; but does that mean are to dismiss those things that are consistent?
Time and again we hear Baldwin proclaim that though a new trial would have exonerated “them”, “he” took it upon himself (more or less) to save Damien’s life by pleading guilty. The question is then, why would someone who was bound to be exonerated, based upon all of this new (go no where) evidence, according to Baldwin and his utmost belief, need his saving? Also, imo, Misskelly is so excluded quite simply because he snitched, and they don’t like him very much.
Much love and respect you, Mom3. As always I eagerly await your comments.
Speaking of that “occult guy”….LOL
Joe Berlinger was interviewed by Leonard Lopate here:
http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/2011/oct/07/
Joe say’s something pretty interesting about Dale Griffis.
Mom 3.0, on your last point I totally disagree. If DE wishes to keep his past to himself to avoid inflaming public opinion he should stay the hell off the talk show circuit. The fact that he is showing up indicates that he does wish to discuss the case and, by default, his past which is indeed part of the case. You can’t expect to show up for these events with a strict limit on what can be discussed and what can’t unless it’s part of a deal that is announced to the listening public. Anything other than open book candor is a charade, nothing more.
Mom3.0, thank you for pointing out to Scott H. that those of us on the fence are only on one side—the side of the victims, Michael, Stevie and Chris, and their grieving families. Having suffered the loss of my uncle who was murdered and left in a cotton field at the tender age of 17, I know these families deserve answers for themselves, and justice for their boys. But, from experience, I know these families also want to be sure the correct individuals are held accountable. This has been my approach to this case.
I’ve reviewed the evidence presented at the Callahan site very carefully. Most of us have formed our own theories of the case. I agree with part of Prosecutor Davis’s theory of how this crime went down; however, I have not been able to conclude, after looking at all the evidence at the Callahan site, that DE, JB, and JM are, beyond a reasonable doubt, the perpetrators. Is it possible that the WM3 committed this crime? Yes, it is. But, no matter how many times I review the evidence, I have not been able to dismiss the doubts that linger in my mind.
The following observations and opinions are just my two cents worth, nothing more:
I agree with Blink that this crime occurred in Robin Hood Hills. Looking at the evidence and using common sense, IMO, there is simply no other conclusion one can make. It would appear that the boys were quickly subdued with blows to their heads. My theory is that it happened very soon after they entered the woods, while it was still daylight out.
This crime scene, judging by what investigators observed, IMO, would have been described by many as organized. I know from experience that groups of teens who kill multiple victims tend to leave disorganized scenes, especially when they have been drinking and/or drugging. They don’t generally clean up or bother to hide the evidence. If they do attempt some clean up, evidence of those efforts can often be found near the scene or in their homes.
The fact that the victims’ clothing was removed, but NOT for the purpose of sexual assault, leads me to believe their clothing may have been taken to prevent them from escaping out of the woods, or to humiliate them. Or, perhaps the clothes were removed after the boys were beaten to give this crime the appearance of a sexually motivated offense. In other words, could this element of the crime have been staged? Why would someone want this to look like a sexual assault case? More on that later.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following is the link to Davis’s closing for the State. If you start reading at “They want you to believe it happened somewhere else”, and continue reading through the next four or five paragraphs, you can see his theory of how the crime occurred. I certainly do not agree with everything he says, but I think some of his logic regarding the logistics of the crime is sound.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/ebtrial/closedavis.html
Two cents worth, part II:
Irt the wound patterns on CB’s body: After reading all of the various forensic pathologists’ opinions, the manner in which CB was mutilated seems questionable. Before throwing rotten tomatoes, hear me out. Some of the pathologists describe a scalloping of the edges of his groin wounds that is consistent with pulling, ripping and ultimately tearing the skin, rather than cutting with a sharp implement. That CB’s penis was degloved and not cut off, IMO, is further evidence that the skin in that area, including the testes, was ripped, then pulled away from his body. If you have ever watched an animal in the wild consuming it’s prey, you will understand why many of the pathologists opined that the groin injuries, along with some of other lacerations, were evidence of animal predation.
Blink, I have a bad cold today, but I will try to put into words a possible scenario. Hope it makes sense:
If one believes that the mutilation(s) were done by animals, to me, this crime has a different feel altogether–one that could lend itself to an impulsive, unplanned assault that went further than the perp(s) intended for it to go. In this scenario, the boys walk into the area occupied by the perps, something sets the perps off, they impulsively begin bullying and terrorizing the victims, the victims are assaulted with blunt objects, their clothing is “pulled off” (this could have happened first), they are tied up by at least two individuals working together, and put into the water. This theory does not have to involve sexual or satanic motivations at all; it may simply reflect impulsive, escalating aggression.
Who would commit a crime like this? In this scenario, it is easier for me to theorize younger perpetators who impulsively and recklessly start something that quickly gets out of hand due to the accumulated and escalating rage of the group, and ends up in tragedy. In this type of dynamic, if only one of the perps had been in the woods, the boys may have been safe. In other words, it is the unique dynamics of this particular group of perpetrators that may have lowered each individual’s threshold for committing a violent crime of this magnitude. This scenario reminds me of another offense. In this crime, two young girls inadvertently stumbled into a penny ante ‘gang initiation’ in the woods on their way home, and were impulsively murdered and sexually assaulted by the teenage members.
Of course, another possibility, is that someone who was already enraged or irritated with at least one of the boys, vented his rage on all three.
All being said, these are no more than theories of what could have happened in this crime. Most of us could provide other theories as well. As we all know, evidence should be what guides all investigators, not theory or conjecture.
Outside of the animal possibility of Chris Byers, because while I agree that the wound edges represent more of a ripping or tearing, as you know I feel that could absolutely have been accomplished by the ice axe, and even if not, I don ‘t disagree as to the possibility of aquatic based animal predation posthumously. Add to that the facial gouge of Stevie Branch. Again, no way that was caused by an animal, it was caused by a weapon that could produce a sort of V, and was absolutely perimortem, as was his crushed posterior neck, again combination drowning. In both reports, experts point out the similarity between Byers and Branch wounds. I do not think I have ever seen an expert present data as to any indiginous animals that could cause that wounding and subsequently drown their prey, when Branch was within minutes of his death from the head and neck injuries anyway. Feel better Grace, an Indian Summer cold is no fun.
B
There is no dispute (outside of Spitz, who also thought it possible carnivores who can apparently also conceal their victims and clean up a crime scene, that CB was deceased when he was put into the water, so for me, the fatal injury where he bled out, had to precede his placement in the ditch. This is supported in statements by DE ( it was never reported that one was mutilated more than the others prior to his statement), Jessie Misskelley, autopsy and luminol testings, and your theory about the perps.
I would disagree respectfully that this was an organized crime scene. The clothing of the boys was shoved into the ditch with sticks that were in plain sight, and using the victims shoelaces as opposed to bringing one’s own supplies, tends to associate a crime of opportunity and let’s not forget the bag of clothes connected via fiber evidence left on the pipe.
It should also be noted that there were beer cans at the sight, for whatever reasons were not collected, and evidence of a recent fire.
Blink another post of mine has gone missing.
This time it is a post that was a precursor to my followup posts without- I fear you and others may misunderstand the spirit in which I submitted the follow-up posts.
Here it is in case it is lost-
Mom3.0 says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 7, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Hello everyone- I havent had a chance to catch up and answer every ones posts yet- I apologize-
First, I feel obligated to respond to the wise BOC commander- Blink, as without her, where would we be??
Hello Blink- Glad, I could give you a laugh IRT the experts.
I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts on my post to Scott.
Before I respond, I just want to let you know that it is very awkward for me to debate you – as you know, I respect and value your opinions a great deal, and I find it very hard to openly disagree with you…it feels almost disrespectful, and I do not want to disrespect you, or offend you in any way.
So please, understand that is not my intention. It is no way a reflection of my respect of you or your thoughts or hard work ect.
So if its alright, I am just going to pretend that I am not responding/debating you directly- but just discussing my thoughts ect with just another poster okay?
I am going to break my thoughts into two separate posts – one discussing JM’s confessions and one in which I feel more comfortable discussing PM and DE – with you directly Blink, okay?
Hope that makes sense
Thanks
Mom 3.0, did you check older comments, I remember processing this and posting it, I believe it is up, lemme know if I am mistaken anyone, thanks.
B
Al-
Hi
You have every right to disagree but- I did not say that exactly.
i never said he put strict limits on the interview- and he was discussing the case- but excuse me for asking but what bearing does his arrest as a sixteen year old have to do with this case?
Also, Whether or not he chooses to go on a talk show- does not mean that he must voice every dirty detail of his past- which can easily be twisted as foder for those who wish to believe he is guilty…
IMO He has a right not to say anything more- and it is the interviewers job to ask follow- uop questions which are designed to get more of the dirt-
I did not say that he was omitting details as not to “inflame” public opinion- I said -I do not blame him for not attempting to go into an indepth explanation- as PM seemed to discourage long complicated drawn-out answers. AND I said I do not blame DE for being reluctant to air ALL his dirty laundry- you know, his arrest as a sixteen year old love sick teen and all that encompasses – BECAUSE
without a thorough explanation of the whys and whens and hows ect-
it would lead many to make wrong assumptions and form biases…
- You see, if I heard that DE had a record that included sexual misconduct, B&E, terroristic threats and theft and all the rest- without hearing the complete story- I would assume he was a sexual deviant- anarchist, thieving creep, and clearly that is much different than a 16 year old boy who ran away with his first love, and took items for the trek, and entered an abandoned dwelling and was caught in the act like two kids at Inspiration point, and that he desperately wanted to protect his love from a father he was led to believe was physically abusive …
Much different- just like if I heard that DE was expelled for filing his nails to points so he could rip the eyeballs from some unsuspecting kid, as some kind of sick thrill… that would be different then a sixteen year old love sick kid who fought like a girl and gouged his rivals face… yeah much different.
AJMO
Lol at Inspiration Point. We really underestimate the impression that show had on our youth, lol.
B
Ragdoll- I understand your wanting to come to Blinks defense- but no need- I am still the same Mom3.0 that respects and holds Blink in high esteem, I just happen to think that her hard work, although compelling, is not enough to show the 3′s guilt.
By all means, you have every right to disagree with me, Ragdoll, and if you or others feel it IS enough- so be it- no hard feelings, I still consider us friends…
But as hard as it is for me to voice my thoughts, which place me not “with” Blink and you- I wouldnt be true to myself or to the advocacy which BOC instills in us, if I did not voice my differing opinions.
AJMO
Mom, your comments are avoiding my base question, something supporters (not calling you a supporter) ALWAYS do. No person has ever come up with a reasonable explanation why he would make this bible confession, why is Misskelley constantly correcting Stidham about minute details when explaining the route taken to the crime scene? Why would someone fabricating a story need to do this? “no we didn’t go that far down” “I carried the evan williams bottle in a bag in front of my pants” he describes the Master of Puppets shirt Baldwin wore, “headstones shaped like crosses” I fail to understand how a person can read that confession and still think Misskelley is making it up. It just defies logic, just what is it that Misskelley is attempting to gain here? He claims he can’t judge the distance from the bodies to the pipe bridge, why not just lie about it if thats what he’s doing? Why is he filling in details that only he could know unprompted if the story isn’t true? What is Misskelley’s motivation for lying here? Is he thinking his sentence is going to be reduced? The confession is with Stidham only, Jesse is already convicted and serving a life sentence, he says point blank that he ” doesn’t know” if he would testify against DE and JB, so thats not motivation here.
This boils down to one thing I guess, you feel like throughout Misskeley’s multiple confessions, the story inconsistencies mean he is lying about everything. My contention is that Jesse is not super bright, he lied before conviction during multiple attempts to exclude himself from the actual murders, while simultaneously admitting his presence, he knew he was caught, “and then I just left, I just left”. this bible confession is different, it’s his most detailed confession, he’s been convicted, his guard is down, hence the constant corrections of Stidham, Jesse is finally giving it all up, albeit 9 months later so there are things he can’t recall exactly. The story about the meetings sound like drinking parties, “we drank and listened to music”. Does anyone doubt Echols could have shot his mouth off about Satan or whatever pseudo occult bs he thought he was involved in during these parties? He seemed to be quite familiar with Alleister Crowley during his testimony. If Jesse was lying about the “occult guy”, why? Why not make up his name? What is Jesse gaining by talking about this person or the picture/briefcase? Just to clarify, I have never thought this case was occult driven, I think it was clearly a case of horrible bullying escalating into a teenage thrill kill, spearheaded by Echols and Baldwin with Misskelley acting a bit like a lemming. Depending on who you talk to, Jesse swings from having the mind of a five year old one minute, to Keyser Sose the criminal mastermind the next. As far as the crying fits Jesse was said to have, here are some examples.
Lee Rush was Jessie Misskelley Sr.’s girlfriend in May-June 1993. She lived in the trailer with Big Jessie and Little Jessie. Rush appeared onscreen with Jessie Sr. in Paradise Lost, including a memorable exchange over whether they would continue supporting Jessie Jr. if he turned out to be guilty (Jessie Sr. said yes, Lee Rush said no).
On the night of June 3, 1993, after Jessie Misskelley’s confession and arrest, three police officers went to the Misskelley home, secured the scene and waited for a search team to arrive. While they waited, the officers sat and talked with Jessie Misskelley Sr. and Lee Rush. All three officers testified that Lee Rush described recent crying fits by Jessie Jr.
Detective Charlie Dabbs wrote (mistakenly referring to Lee Rush as “Mrs. Misskelley”):
While sitting in their living room for approximately two hours, and during conversation Mr. and Mrs. Misskelley talked about different incidents. During the conversation, Mrs. Misskelley got to talking about how Jessie Jr. was waking her up at night crying and having nightmares. Every time she went into his room he would be crying hysterically and he would tell her it was because his girlfriend was moving away. (not surprisingly, he didn’t just claim ” I helped kill 3 kids”) She told us it happened a number of times, and that she could not believe his girlfriends’ moving would cause that kind of hysterical behavior, but that little Jessie had been acting strange.
Detective Tony Anderson similarly wrote:
During the course of this conversation Mrs. Misskelley made the statement, “I knew that something was wrong, a few nights ago little Jessie was in his room crying so loud and sobbing so hard that it woke me up, I went in and asked him what was wrong?, his reply was that his girl friend was moving to Florida.”
Another short period of time passed and Mrs. Misskelley made the same identical remarks again about little Jessie crying and waking her up!
Deputy Sheriff Howard Tankersley also wrote a brief report about that night.
If Lee Rush told the Paradise Lost filmmakers about Jessie’s crying jags, it ended up on the cutting room floor. Likewise, Mara Leveritt never mentions the name “Lee Rush” in Devil’s Knot.
Mom, just read your last post, I forgot to say I was sorry for the sheep comment, again, you obviously do not fall into that category, I do apologize. Looking forward to your future posts.
Scott
Good read, but cannot you find anyone who would edit your texts? After all the trouble this should not be such a big effort to read the text through a few times and make it presentable? At the moment some places in both part I and II are incomprehensible.
In fairness, part 2 went up amidst power glitches and web downtimes, and I have not had a chance to edit it appropriately due to other projects, so your critique is valid, my apologies.
So to answer your question, at the time, no, I could not find me nobodies to edit mine texts.
B
Grace, you said:
“@Blink, I have seen ‘snitches’ (for lack of a better word) come back and offer perjured testimony after they have been released from custody and allegedly have nothing to gain. IMO, particularly in high profile cases, the secondary gain can sometimes be the desired “fifteen minutes of fame.” Go figure.”
But Michael Carson just rushed out of the courtroom and straight into the car. He only ever talked to the press once, in 1996, and then only to reaffirm his testimony, in light of the bizarre (and not at all credible) Johnny Preston letter.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/sun_article_carson.html
None of this looks at all to me like Carson was after his 15 minutes of fame.
I agree that Carson had much more to lose than gain. For me, I believe he was attempting to work a path toward conquering his substance abuse issues.
B
Lucy says:
October 9, 2011 at 7:11 am
Grace, you said:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To each his own, Lucy. Based on everything I have researched about him, I just do not consider Carson a credible witness. Period.
I think in a general way, this case was wrought with witnesses that in a normal environment, would be difficult to be considered “credible”. I think in most circumstances, this witness pool suffered as a result.
A loose modern comparison is like trying to prosecute gang activity.
B
Lucy says:
October 9, 2011 at 7:11 am
Lucy, But Michael Carson just rushed out of the courtroom and straight into the car. He only ever talked to the press once, in 1996, and then only to reaffirm his testimony, in light of the bizarre (and not at all credible) Johnny Preston letter.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/sun_article_carson.html
None of this looks at all to me like Carson was after his 15 minutes of fame.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry, but I posted my last comment without finishing my thoughts:
The trial, and Carson’s testimony, was recorded for the documentary that was filmed about the case. All one has to do is google his name and one will see that Carson is and always will be known for his testimony against JB. That coverage exceeds most individual’s 15 minutes of fame, IMO.
As for his “reason” for coming forward after allegedly holding secret this “critical” information for months, I am not impressed. I have heard almost exactly the same words from other such “jailhouse” witnesses.
In the end, it was Carson’s substance abuse counselor’s efforts to mitigate the potential damage of Carson’ testimony that I found most credible and compelling.
24. GraceintheHills says:
October 9, 2011 at 9:29 am
Blink says, “I think in a general way, this case was wrought with witnesses that in a normal environment, would be difficult to be considered “credible”. I think in most circumstances, this witness pool suffered as a result.
A loose modern comparison is like trying to prosecute gang activity.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excellent point, Blink. IMO, there were witnesses that could have been called, but weren’t for this very reason.
Hi Blink- I went back and looked for the post- thats when I copied and pasted it as is- showing that it still shows it as “in moderation”- No worries though- I was just concerned that you hadnt seen it, and that my followup posts would come off as rude -…
I dont know why it didnt post- I guess there is a glitch somewhere. Thanks for looking anyway- Yeah “Happy Days” surely did leave us with some great references-AAAAA!
ps Dont worry you havent jumped the shark yet- He He
AJMO
Hey wait a minute- speaking of glitches my last post shows my “quilt” has changed colors?! What the?!
I am still trying to catch-up – it is going to take me a long time to respond to some- I apologize – I dont want to leave anyone hanging.
Thanks to everyone for your great posts
Morgan- Hi- just wanted to say really quick that I appreciate your sharing your brothers experiences with us. I am sorry to hear of his troubles. Ill try to respond to your indepth posts/thoughts soon. BTW I really appreciate the link you provided to PH – I saw that clip as very insightful- more thoughts later…
Graceinthehills- I wanted to say first that iI am sorry about your uncles murder. So sorry. Thank you for sharing that agonizing heartfelt detail with us. I appreciate it-
Scott- thanks for apologizing for the sheep comment too, I was joking though.- I will respond to your second post ASAP JFTR I am not avoiding anything- I gueess I have yet to address that point- my apologies. Ill try again
xara- Hey that radio show clip was interesting, thanks for bringing over- I see wait you were referring to, That occult Guy- Griffis? he had a fax from “a juvenile officer” that sent DE writings and drawings to Griffis 1 year before the murders…Say What?
So this “expert” was consulting with a juvenile officer IRT “occult trappings” even before the murders. Say it isnt so.
I want to know what the fax read- it seems to me that someone had i sights on Damien very early on- could it be the guy that immediately said- looks like DE finally killed someone- yep ritualistic killing- Hey I wonder if Griffis clued him into what to look for…say like forcible drinking of urine- ect
AJMO
Blink if its my choice Ill keep the sea green quilt- although me thinks it is not and that you have no say either LOL
But it does remind me of a line from the Nirvana song-All Apologies-
You know “aqua sea foam shame” great lyric
Still trying to catch-up
I apologize for all the posts- I really hate being a board hog-
RE: Morgan says:
October 8, 2011 at 11:16 am
Hi- Morgan- I am glad to know that my posts have given you much to ponder. Back at cha!
Morgan you wrote in part:
But then I remind myself of a few simple facts such as, Damien Echols lied on the stand when he said he’d read in a newspaper that one of the boys had been mutilated more than the other two. IIRC, on cross, the prosecution got Echols to admit there was no mention of this in the paper. So why did he lie and say that it was from the newspaper that he got this information, when he did not?
Morgan- I understand why you feel that way about DE’s “lie”
Let me try to give you an innocent reason for this-
Could it be that DE was just mistaken? Perhaps he doesnt remember exactly where and when and from whom he got that detail- perhaps during his testimony he naturally assumed he would have read it?
Showing one NP clipping from one media outlet does not necessarily mean that DE didnt read the info elsewhere, nor does it preclude him from seeing it in other media- nor does it preclude him from obtaining the info from the interviewers themselves, or from a rumor from a searcher that was in the area that night- or from a police officer or from a friend who inadvertently passed the info onto others- it is a fact that Ryan was searching with his friends did he later pass on inside info and they passed it on and so on? Did one of the people that helped to drain the ditch pass on info ? My point is that info could have come from anyone or anywhere.-and Damiens knowing it, or THINKING he knew it, and sharing it does not point towards his involvement.
People talk- it was a small town- 3 boys were abducted and murdered- little Aaron new details on May 6th that seem to point to his being there right? Morgan and the others knew details that seem to point to inside knowledge-
To me knowing one boy was hurt more than the others is not some big AHA moment- anyone could have guessed this detail just by understanding human nature-
For instance; If the murder was perpetrated by one assailant- the average person could surmise that the assailant would tire out- in the end- using most of his hellish rage and energy on the first two…or one could surmise that the murder was perpetrated by more than one person- each with different motives- rage and strength ect- or one could surmise that as the murderer continued on in his attack he began to feel remorse and therefore lost some of his will to inflict “overkill” or one could surmise that the perp was angered at two of the boys and the attack showed hate and personalized anger towards those he knew and lacked passion and rage for one that he did not know- as was opined- MM was a “collateral kill”
DE never said exactly who was hurt more, or exactly how they were hurt more- only that he THOUGHT/HEARD one was hurt more than the others.
The fiber evidence:
Morgan for the life of me I do not understand how these fibers that were microscopically similar to a childs shirt in DE’s closet, and a toilet seat cover in JB’s home, or a red robe of JBs mom ect can be held as such undeniable evidence of DE’s and JB’s guilt– especially when at the same time, hair/fiber evidence from unknown persons or family members is held in such low regard.
Lets think about the fibers for a minute-
These fibers that were compared to those found- came from items that were very common- any # of people could have owned tshirts and robes from walmart- and any # of toilet seat covers could have supplied a match-
Here are some questions-
Did LE compare Aarons clothes for a match-? Did they compare the parents robes and shirts and toilet seat covers for a match? Did they compare Jacoby’s things? Did they compare Amandas, or Ryans? We know they didnt compare Bojangles things- Did they compare the clothes in the bag -the jacket?
What of the group of boys one witness said he saw talking to the boys earlier- when they said we are going biking-were those kids ever found and talked to? Were their hair and fibers compared- IIRC some of these boys were described as African American- perhaps that is the answer to the AA hair found…what of the witnesses who described a fourth boy with the victims earlier- was he ever identified? And did LE follow-up with testing of his hair and fibers? What of the victims teachers? Was their hair and fibers compared- as to eliminate cross contamination, considering all three were in school that day-/ what of their classmates and neighbors- what of the Hobbs sofa? As IIRC little Chris went there searching for his friend – were those fibers compared? What of items in the carport- old rags ect- were they compared?
Secondary transfers are common and can come from just about anywhere- these fibers were common- if LE would have collected samples for elimination from every possible comparison I bet other people would have fell into the microscopically similar category as well.
Thanks for asking for my thoughts Morgan— very good post- I must say- it has given me much to think about…. Ill continue in part 2-
@Morgan, loved your post responding to Mom 3.0. I have the exact same beliefs that you do about these murders. I’d like to add a couple more things to your list. I had mentioned this before in an earlier comment, but DE made a Freudian slip in the Paradise Lost documentary (the 1st one, I believe). His attorney or someone asked him if he was going to go out and get a beer after this whole thing was over, and he says “no more beer for me” which sounds like he’s saying drinking beer contributed to these muders. Jessie did say they were drinking beer. What about when DE was being questioned on the stand and he was asked what the murderer was thinking. He replied that they probably thought it was funny and enjoyed hearing them scream. So, if I’m innocent and I’m asked what I thought the murderer was thinking, I’d be like I have no idea what the murderer was thinking, how could I? How could DE possibly speculate on what a murderer was thinking unless he was indeed the murderer? To me, these details just scream guilt. I think people who are on the fence (no offense to anyone), are driving themselves crazy analyzing and coming up with different scenarios and conspiracy theories, but sometimes the simple uncomplicated truth is right in your face and you miss it (again, no offense to anyone). There are several more things I could add, but don’t want to make this post too long. Also, a good website I found is findadeath.com. Go to the WM3 forum, and go to comment #465 by joS3ph and then follow his comments through the whole thread. This guy has done an amazing job of condensing and summarizing information on this case. Apparently, he has followed the case from the beginning. It’s excellent reading that I think fence-sitters should read. Of course everyone on here is extremely informed about this case so you all may have already read that website.
Grace, I accept that we disagree on Carson’s overall credibility; my intention was solely to point out that the “15 minutes of fame” suggestion doesn’t seem to hold up.
oops I forgot to add a AJMO to my previous post
Part 2 Re Morgan-
Hiya Morgan-
You wrote in part:
And then there’s the serrated knife I’m not so willing to dismiss because I think the odds are too great that Echol’s would have owned such a knife engraved with the words “Special Forces Survival Roman Numeral Two” on the blade, which were identical to the words on the blade of the knife found behind Baldwin’s, in the lake. What are the odds of that happening? So the one knife didn’t have a compass. Who’s to say it wasn’t removed or that it didn’t fall off? Dr. Peretti testified that some of the wounds on the boys were consistent with that knife. I know that most have but as yet I cannot discount that knife
_
Morgan this lake knife was found behind JB’s home not DE’s- but I agree, IF it was DE’s knife he could have thrown it behind JB’s home…
Next- despite this knife being held up at trial as the murder weapon, it has been proven that this knife was not used in these attacks.
DE was said to own one LIKE this knife- only this knife had a compass – so I guess if one wanted to believe a knife like this was used, it could have been the one DE owned at one time-
EXCEPT according to JM During his statement to police in June, he claimed Jason Baldwin had a knife and “saw him cut one of the little boys”. When asked by Detective Ridge whether Jason used “a knife that you fold up, or was it like a hunting knife?” JM told him “just a fold up knife” that had a “regular knife blade” about six inches long..DE did not have a knife and wasnt using a knife he used the barkless club- remember?
So if one factors in JM’s confessions it seems the weapons used were:
DE- stick/club/ barkless branch
JM fists
JB a fold up knife with just a regular knife blade
Next Morgan you asked:
“What are the odds of that happening?” In reference to DE once owning a knife that read- Special Forces Survival Roman Numeral Two-, which you went on to say was identical to the words on the blade of the knife found behind Baldwin’s, in the lake.
Morgan according to Jason Parker, a knife company owner who was called by the prosecution,, this knife is a generic knife that was bought and sold between the years 85-87 you know, During the big Rambo phase-
He said his company, did not carry this exact knife, but that it had a similar one- this knife, the lake knife was a Japanese knife and many other companies at least 5 or six that he knew of, carried such knives or generic knives that were much the same- He could not say how many he sold- or to whom,or how many they did, but considering at least 6 other companies in addition to his, carried them, and other generic knives, like this one, it should go without saying that this knife type was very popular- and KIM MANY people collected knives –
Here is his testimony: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/ebtrial/jparker.html
Morgan this knife never had a compass on it- there was no evidence to point to a compass ever having had fallen off nor to one that was taken off- also- it is my understanding that these survival knives come with many options- some with flashlights ect-
Here is a link that I found quite interesting-
http://tinyurl.com/5u7kmx3
it shows this type of knife has a screw off bottom that is a flash light and seems to have a screw driver type implement inside- that may be an explanation for the “x” on the face-
If its okay Morgan Ill address the rest of your post at a later time- I would like to end this by saying a totally agree with the statement that JM has learned through the years to use his disability as a shield of sorts, whenever he needs to excuse himself of some wrongdoing or misunderstanding.
Thanks again Morgan- I look forward to more of your posts
AJMO
@ Scott
“What is Jesse gaining by talking about this person or the picture/briefcase?”
Scott, I’m very much a non, but I find this part of the Bible Confession bizarre. I pesonally don’t have any problem envisioning parties with a bunch of wannabe satanists talking nonsense and dabbling with “magick”. There’s person after person in this case talking, of their own volition, about occult dabbling in WM, after all. And, despite supporters’ claim, occult dabbling or at least occult posturing among teenagers is not rare, least of all in the early-to-mid 90s.
But, the man with the boys’ pictures in the briefcase, I just can’t get over. I don’t believe that ever happened, and I find it strange that Jessie would be lying so outrageously in this particular confession, when he was supposed to finally be clearing it all up, to his own attorney, with his hand on the Bible. Why on earth would he come up with the whole briefcase story? Do you have any thoughts that could help explain this?
Again, appearing on a talk show to discuss something usually is for the purpose of clearing the air. A talk show is not a court of law. If a person has a past the could lead people to believe him capable of certain actions, he should certainly refuse to show up on a talk show if he expected that past to be off limits. If the talk show host isn’t willing to ask the questions necessary to clear up questions of both guilt and innocence, I submit the show is a charade with a one sided agenda. All these hosts promise hard questions in order to get viewers then fail miserably on keeping their promise.
Grace
I agree with your position in your #18 post above that the murders took place in an unplanned way when things esculated beyond the original intent.
The animal scene proposed by some of the experts is just fiction or wishful thinking IMO. Did any one of them try to find any animal or reptile in and around the creek or 10 Mile Bayou/Ditch that could produce wounds found on the boys? One of the police officers stated that he had heard there were snapping turtles in the area. In my experience, most who talk about turtles don’t know one from another. To some people all turtles are snapping turtles.
I also aggee with Morgan regarding that Jessie had learned to take advantage of his supposed lack of intelligence to hide any activity that would get him in trouble. I have witnessed children who were so in denial about being responsible for their acts that they would claim they didn’t do something even when you watched the event happen.
In regards to the witness pool, we have a large group of poor people who live a lifestyle that depends on their cunning to get benefits for themselves from various government agencies. While they may not have great abilities to think rationally, they have learned how to “work” the system to their advantage. If a lie gets them results they want, they will use it.
Hello Mo longer ON the Fence-
I very much appreciated you taking the time to write up your thoughts on the bible confession as well as those IRT Carson.
It seems you have sparked some great conversation ..
I realize your post was not addressed to me, so I hope you dont mind if I respond to it.
Here goes:
RE: NoLongerOnTheFence says:
October 2, 2011 at 9:08 pm
NLOTF, thank you for weighing in on the bible confession- you opined that the bible confession has alot weight with people because not many people knew of its existence- okay I can understand how this could give you and others new revelations- but even so, whether or not it was well known does not factor into its “truth”- you know?
you wrote in part:
“People have been sold a story about the West Memphis Three through the Paradise Lost series that doesn’t line up with the police records and case documents.”
NLOTF, I cant speak for anyoneelse, but I have not been sold anything- I have not watched the documentaries so I guess I am the exception to this – as well as feeling like a pawn- seems to me, that the documentaries did more harm then good to the “supporters” side then?
I would very much like for you to list the key details that JM got right- as I think it would help us all to discuss them- and whether or not he arrived at knowing these details through doing the crime or through leading questions , or the trial, or the newspaper, or the rumors or other.
I think many are thinking an iq of 72 is “retarded” like the character “Warren”, Mary’s brother, from the movie Something About Mary…. well JM was not, is not “retarded” The finding of 72, is borderline- meaning JM would not stick out as a typical, for lack of a better word severely developmentally disabled individual. In fact he could more often then not be seen as a “normal” functioning person.
NLOTF, there was NO evidence of cult activity in the area- no bonfires in the woods no cult meetings no dead dogs- we know this because despite SJ and JD endless attempts to find any such evidence- they failed- all they had was nameless “insider” info and a whole lot of conjecture and ofcourse DE’s own interests in reading ect- THATS ALL
Just because Teens went to “stonehenge” and scared themselves silly, does not mean there was occult driven crime or activity in the area- regardless of how many people checked out books or listened to Ozzys “Mr. Crowley” or defaced property with graffiti of band names and pentagrams ect
Yes there was a bunch of kids talking about white magic and black magic- and spreading rumors of DE’s involment… but it was all TALK no PROOF-
I can talk all day about recipes Ive read about in books but that does not make me a practicing gourmet chef. And I can say Martha Stewart must be a witch because she hosts Halloween parties with all the fixings, and that she sacrifices toads by boiling them in vats because it is her secret ingredient- But the only truth in that would be that she is a witch- Ha ha – gotcha- I meant tthe truth would be that she holds H- parties with all the trimmings and she once dressed as a witch…
I agree with the Carson “confession” it didnt happen- and the jury never got to factor in the testimony of the counselor who said that he gave this info to Carson as a rumor-
I agree with Graces take on the Carson confession- her thoughts make the most sense to me IRT snitches and attention seekers who glom onto well known cases….
Carsons testimony is different then his actual statement given-
IRT everyones thoughts Lucy grace ect-on carson Ill add this:
Carson said that JB told him that he DISMEMBERED ALL of the boys and that that JB had sucked the blood from all of the boys ect-
Foe those that say Carson had nothing to gain by coming forward that is not true-
It was MONTHS later that he came forward- and he at first told his tale to his own father- who TOLD him that he had should come forward and tell what he “supposedly”
heard JB confess to- his dad did this more than once
If he was doing it “for the families” and not for any other reason like for say at his fathers insistence- or because he wanted to be in the limelight- kind of like River Cruz, from the Casey Anthony case- then why didnt he immediately go to his dad and to LE or to a counselor?
Seems to me that the statements he attributes to JB are not even in line with the actual facts and evidence-
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/carson2.html
BEALL: Okay. Tell me, what kind of gory details did he get into?
MICHAEL: He was saying like, okay, dismembered them, and sucking the blood out of their scrotums and playing with there balls in his mouth and stuff like that.
And again:
BEALL: Tell me what else he told you.
MICHAEL: I, it’s been awhile, so all I pretty much remember is scrotums, playing with the penis, and putting their, kids balls in his mouth.
BEALL: Okay.
MICHAEL: When he mentioned that, that was pretty much the end of it. I laid my hands on the table and I jumped back and I left him sitting at the table, left him with the cards, and I went to my cell.
And again-
BEALL: Okay, getting back to what Baldwin told you, huh, about the, huh, the penis, and the balls, go over that again with me, exactly what he said to you.
MICHAEL: He said, how he kindly, I don’t remember the exact the words he used, but he dismembered them, that he played with their penis’s, sucked the blood out of their scrotums, and put the balls in his mouth.
BEALL: Okay. Did he say whether or not anyone else was involved in this same activity that he was involved in?
MICHAEL: I don’t remember.
….
I also must note that it seems to me that LE was skeptical about Carsons “remembrances” as shown here:
BEALL: Okay, huh, have I made it clear to you on several occassions that if this story is not true, then you need to back out of this because this is very serious and chances are you will be ask to testify in court and, huh, I have told you that ah, we will not do anything to you, you will not be charged with anything, if you tell me right now that you made up this whole story and you are saying that this is not made up? That he told you while you were in jail, excuse me, that he did take the balls, of at least one of the kids, and put it in his mouth, and what did he do to the penis?
MICHAEL: He played with it.
BEALL: Okay, and what did he do, did he do anything else with the penis?
MICHAEL: He said he sucked the blood out of it.
BEALL: Okay, and he didn’t mention anything about what anybody else did?
MICHAEL: Not really.
— also it seems Mr. Beall just then inadvertently “corrected” Mr. Carsons remembrances on one penis not all ect—
Also in this same statement we have Carson describing telling his dad months after it happened- and his dad- prompting him to tell LE and Carson saying he didnt cuz it was all just…. “weird” but his dad didnt give up-
So what was Carson supposed to do – tell him dad I heard it in a rumor or dad my remembrances are weird, maybe I only think I heard it…or dad- I dont want to disappoint you, please dont hate me, I know I have never done anything that made you proud, at least not for a long while, but- I am a liar — I lied it didnt happen.
Better to play the hero for his dad and for the families- at that point everyone already knew they were guilty- heck they had JMs confession plastered all over the front pages- so what harm would it be to flub the truth and for once make his dad proud?????
In conclusion – lets not forget that an actual jail worker came forward and said that he is the one that supplied this info to Carson- as GOSSIP and rumors and nothing more and Carson then changed it into “JB’s confession…
Perhaps this kid, who obviously had drug and alcohol issues took this rumor- and his drug and drink soaked brain tricked him into believing it was JB who gave him this information- that would seem to explain why he could pass the poly (if you put stock in PGs)- Carson actually “remembered “(wrongly) that JB had confessed…
Thanks again NLOTF, for sharing your thoughts- they gave me much to think about- so many ways to interpret the same “evidence” its a wonder how 12 people unanimously concluded guilt beyond a reasonable doubt-
Sorry for the length AJMO
GraceintheHills says:
October 8, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Blink says, “There is no dispute (outside of Spitz, who also thought it possible carnivores who can apparently also conceal their victims and clean up a crime scene, that CB was deceased when he was put into the water, so for me, the fatal injury where he bled out, had to precede his placement in the ditch. This is supported in statements by DE (it was never reported that one was mutilated more than the others prior to his statement), Jessie Misskelley, autopsy and luminol testings, and your theory about the perps.
@Blink, thank you for the get well wishes. My theory (and I have several) that this crime may have been committed by two of more youths is just that–a theory. I’m still not convinced by the evidence that this crime was carried out by JB, JM and DE.
~~~~~~~~~~
Blink says, “I would disagree respectfully that this was an organized crime scene. The clothing of the boys was shoved into the ditch with sticks that were in plain sight, and using the victims shoelaces as opposed to bringing one’s own supplies, tends to associate a crime of opportunity and let’s not forget the bag of clothes connected via fiber evidence left on the pipe.”
@Blink: Well, it must be my cold that has me a bit fuzzy today.:) I think we are both correct. The scene does have some elements of disorganization to it, as well. If one uses the definitions of organized, disorganized and mixed offenders/scenes found in the FBI’s Crime Classification Manual, this scene–which has organized AND disorganized elements–would probably be more accurately be classified as “mixed”. For anyone who is not familiar with the CCM, it was the opinion of the authors that one can encounter mixed offender/crime scenes when there is more than one offender, unexpected victim response, unanticipated events (e.g. interruptions), youthfulness, drug/alcohol use, and/or external stressors.
Agreed, and I definitely am guilty of tipping that scale in this case based on WHICH components are to be considered disorganized. As we know from analysis of the two classifications, certain factors are predominant. Others fall into the middle of the road.
B
Blink I feel like I am in the twilight Zone – -
First my “quilt” is back to normal- but several of my posts from earlier are completely gone- not even showing “in Mod”
here they are for reposting- all except the ones I forgot to “hold it just in case”
Mom3.0 says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 9, 2011 at 11:03 am
Hey wait a minute- speaking of glitches my last post shows my “quilt” has changed colors?! What the?!
Mom3.0 says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 9, 2011 at 11:24 am
I am still trying to catch-up – it is going to take me a long time to respond to some- I apologize – I dont want to leave anyone hanging.
Thanks to everyone for your great posts
Morgan- Hi- just wanted to say really quick that I appreciate your sharing your brothers experiences with us. I am sorry to hear of his troubles. Ill try to respond to your indepth posts/thoughts soon. BTW I really appreciate the link you provided to PH – I saw that clip as very insightful- more thoughts later…
Graceinthehills- I wanted to say first that iI am sorry about your uncles murder. So sorry. Thank you for sharing that agonizing heartfelt detail with us. I appreciate it-
Scott- thanks for apologizing for the sheep comment too, I was joking though.- I will respond to your second post ASAP JFTR I am not avoiding anything- I gueess I have yet to address that point- my apologies. Ill try again
xara- Hey that radio show clip was interesting, thanks for bringing over- I see wait you were referring to, That occult Guy- Griffis? he had a fax from “a juvenile officer” that sent DE writings and drawings to Griffis 1 year before the murders…Say What?
So this “expert” was consulting with a juvenile officer IRT “occult trappings” even before the murders. Say it isnt so.
I want to know what the fax read- it seems to me that someone had i sights on Damien very early on- could it be the guy that immediately said- looks like DE finally killed someone- yep ritualistic killing- Hey I wonder if Griffis clued him into what to look for…say like forcible drinking of urine- ect
AJMO
Hope this posts—
ok, lol, the issue was on your end, check your earlier posts and if you don’t see what I am referring to email me.
B
Scott H says:
October 8, 2011 at 7:47 pm
Mom, your comments are avoiding my base question, something supporters (not calling you a supporter) ALWAYS do. No person has ever come up with a reasonable explanation why he would make this bible confession, why is Misskelley constantly correcting Stidham about minute details when explaining the route taken to the crime scene? Why would someone fabricating a story need to do this? “no we didn’t go that far down” “I carried the evan williams bottle in a bag in front of my pants” he describes the Master of Puppets shirt Baldwin wore, “headstones shaped like crosses” I fail to understand how a person can read that confession and still think Misskelley is making it up. It just defies logic, just what is it that Misskelley is attempting to gain here?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott, I wish I knew what JM was attempting to gain during any of his statements. I don’t think anyone involved in the case, including his lawyers, really know. Have you read his attorney Dan Stidham’s statements in the Baldwin/Misskelly Rule 37 hearing? JM gave the so-called Bible confession on Feb. 8, 1994, shortly after his conviction. A bit over a week later, on Feb. 17, 1994, Stidham got a call that JM was in the Clay County Prosecutor Joe Calvin’s office attempting to talk again. Approximately two weeks after that, on or about March 2, 1994, he was back at Stidham’s office, only this time he was “explaining that he was not involved, but that people were pressuring him and telling him how he could get out of prison.” Sheesh.
The Rule 37 hearings provide interesting details of the difficulties the lawyers had communicating with JM during and after the trial. As I suspected, they fully realized he would have had a very difficult time had he taken the stand. Stidham indicated that JM could never keep his story straight, nor could he even TELL his story in a coherent manner without being “led” by the person conducting the interview. JM also misperceived information that was provided to him. At one point it became clear to Stidham that JM believed his defense attorneys worked for the police department.
Still trying hard to catch up-
Morgan- Dont worry about not getting back to respond to my Sept 30th comment- I too am finding it hard to respond to everyones posts-
please take all the time you need – just be sure do your best art work for that special client
As for your “goth” niece- She IS cool LOL- do you doubt it?
I dont blame her father for not wanting his Sabbath album covers ruined- Jeez the audacity of people who just cant understand-LOL
The Pam Hobbs interview you linked-
Please watch it again Morgan (and all) as Stevies mom is clearing saying she like alot of us, doesnt know for certain who killed the boys and she is very angry at LE who did not do a thorough job-
She says if they would have told her Bill Clinton committed these murders she would have believed them at the time- she had no reason to doubt the assurances of the police who said the case was an 11— since that time with new evidence ect she has come to doubt everything in this case.
AJMO
http://www.wreg.com/search/dispatcher.front?Query=pam+hobbs&target=adv_video
Grace and Blink
Re your October 4, 2011 at 11:09 pm and your October 6, 2011 at 1:02 pm
posts/response
I found the links to Jasons english composition journal -
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/jb_journal.html
I myself to not see ANYTHING in these entries that show JB to be extremely violent or deranged.
The one entry in which he conveys his extreme anger over his little brother and his friends messing up his room- to me reads much like any 16 year old brothers “confession” over grabbing the brother and holding him in a head lock until he turned red- adding ofcourse at the end that he Jason was punished, & got in trouble “for nothing”
I think perhaps this is nothing more than an older brother not realizing how this behavior is wrong- or how it makes him look to outsiders-
Brothers, male cousins or young uncles ect- They can be very protective and very caring and great mentors- but they can also be rather quick to anger and they sometimes choose inappropriate tactics when dealing with younger kids-
I cant tell you how many kids would come into school with bruises or scratches from a roughhousing older sibling- giving “charlie horses” or “purple nurples” or “indian burns” or run of the mill wrestling mishaps..or overreacting physically to some perceived wrong… or how many times I witnessed as a kid, my friends older family members holding their arms behind their backs and making them scream uncle- or brothers getting mad at one another and commencing in a physical fight- boys are different – they often use force but everything is fine afterwards- you know?
I would think because JB openly discussed this behavior and his anger in class work- he felt it was really no big deal- nor did he feel he had did anything that bad-
This is typical behavior for some, and certainly not a precursor to abuse or murder?
His journal entries also include alot of doodling, which does contain drawings of knives and girls sand swirls and abstract shapes ect ect- again, these kids collected knives, again these kids were into metal- much of the cover art contains weapons and girls and stuff that would make the average parent chagrin- thats half of the interest-
Go to any Highschool and pick up their folders ect- youd be surprised what they are drawing- and be sure to pick up their cd cases- youll be surprise at the lyrics and most of the imagery.
As for his mothers suicide attempt- I am sure it effected JB how could it not? But in this same journal, when conveying his thoughts on a persons suicide attempt, he brings up this painful event from his past- and shows empathy and compassion for not only the girl but hr family as well- so that tends to point towards 16 year old JB, processing his feelings rather well.IMO
In this same journal JB also talks about his self-esteem, and his dreams of a perfect girlfriend, and his career hopes- he wanted to go to art school, and his feeling on abortion, and the woman being able to live with the guilt of her choice, and he also talks about the scariest costume he can think of- that of an abortion doctor and he adds a picture for emphasis….
Very profound ramblings for a sixteen year old.
AJMO
Mom 3.0- I have never classified JB as violent or deranged, and I only mentioned the passage in his journal re his brother as an act of aggression, and compulsion, which in his writing he admits.
My question to Grace, although I did not phrase it this way, is that I wanted to know what to look for retroactively, if he in fact participated in this crime, and what else I did or did not see.
Btw, this is a loaded question, lol, but what do you suppose the abortion doctor is holding in that drawing?
B
To Scott, Grace, morgan, Lisa ect
I am sorry that is taking me so long to respond to your well thought posts-I will try to finish later tonight- but I promise I will not forget.
Ill try to BBL.
Thanks
Here a couple of interesting interviews with Dan Stidham (Misskelley’s lawyer).
from 1996:
http://www.stidhamlawfirm.com/grisham.html
from Aug. 2011
http://johnwmorehead.blogspot.com/2011/08/reflections-on-injustice-dan-stidham.html
Mom 3.0~ Thank you for taking the time to listen to that radio show.
I think it’s safe to assume that the “juvenile officer” he was referring to is Jerry Driver. I would love to see that fax as well.
From what I gathered they were interviewing him for PL3, so hopefully it will be included in the movie.
Marbor~ Thank you for those links! Both were very good interviews.
Blink~ You have accused JB of wielding an ice axe and emasculating Chris Byers, and yet you do not consider him violent or deranged?
I never made that accusation Xara, and respectfully, I am a stickler for facts and quotes when anyone is conveying something they claim on my behalf. I would ask you to link, but will not as I know there isn’t any.
I believe the acts committed are very violent, of course, and I believe it is possible, and probable that the wounds inflicted could have come from the ice axe, which I have shown, was in the custody of Jason Baldwin, according to 3 separate witnesses, one of which, his own brother, whom he had return it secretly.
I was not there, all I can provide is my investigative analysis based on the case file, and my own training and experience, as well as that of my multi-disciplined team.
What I can say, is that there are probably thousands of heinous crime cases where people never saw such a potential for violence coming in someone’s background, it does not mean it did not exist, or happen.
I can only follow the evidence.
B
Marbor, amazing the above link from 1996 ends talking about Dan at Wal-Mart the night of the trial’s end, and completely ignores the fact Jesse confessed again a few days later. It never ceases to amaze me how infrequently facts are left out of stories about this case, specifically ones about Misskelley, very telling I think.
Sorry, meant frequently in the above post!