The West Memphis Series Part II: Guilty By Plea And Have Been Set Free
Jonesboro, AR- In a shocking development, four days following the first installment of the West Memphis Three on www.blinkoncrime.com, on August 19, 2011 Damien Echols, Charles Jason Baldwin and Jessie Miskelley, through an Alford plea, were convicted of three counts of first degree murder following an agreement made by Prosecutor Scott Ellington and their respective defense attorneys for the murders of eight year old boys James Michael Moore, Christopher Byers ( Murray) and Stevie Branch.
Judge David N. Laser agreed to and imposed suspended sentences for time served to Echols, Miskelley and Baldwin; all were released and immediately declared their innocence during the ensuing press conference.
In Part I of our series, we touched briefly on the development of new evidence and possible murder weapon, the blue handled- mountain ice axe, which inexplicably was never presented at trial. It had been admitted into evidence after being retrieved from its owner, following it’s return by Jason Baldwin’s, younger brother Mathew.
Requests to confirm whether or not the ice axe was maintained in evidence at West Memphis Police Department were non-responsive at the time of this publication. Part II continues first with what the jury never heard. A podcast of my interview on the case following the release of the WM3 can be found here.
Premature Illumination
One of the larger points of contention in the murders was the lack of blood evidence at the scene. The lack of blood or blood spatter at the scene with such gruesome injuries spawned the defense theory the ditch was a dump site or secondary crime scene. This was largely due to the fact that the jury would never hear about the results of luminol tests; it was suppressed by motion of the defense In both trials.
Luminol enhanced chemiluminesence (LCL) technology in 1993 was geared toward examining items of evidence in a lab under black light for optimum photographic results, or its secondary application for use in an enclosed environment which can be manually darkened and a portable black light ( we now call this an alternative light source or ALS) brought to the scene.
LCL when sprayed onto a surface containing remnants of blood, or more specifically the iron in blood, will create a glowing reaction when iron, invisible to the naked eye, is present.
In 1993 under Arkansas law, Luminol testing was considered new, novel, and not accepted as scientific evidence.
While the methods for collection, testing and controls have advanced significantly since 1993 and LCL testing is widely used in criminal case work, analysis of the findings in the instant case flatly dispute the notion that there was no blood associated with the crime scene along the ditch bank of Robin Hood Hills.
Contrary to the misconception that there was no evidence of blood at the scene, the results of two consecutive days of luminol tests at the scene were enlightening.
As Kermit Channell and Donald Smith, from the Arkansas crime lab could not bring the “outside in” they were forced to set up shop in the woods along the banks of the ditch. Also present for testing both days were WMPD Detectives Mike Allen, Tony Anderson and Bryn Ridge.
Donald Smith’s report below in it’s entirety below, The other reports can be found here.
STATE CRIME LABORATORY
P.O. Box 5274
Number 3 Natural Resources Drive
Little Rock, Arkansas 72215
REPORT OF LABORATORY ANALYSIS
Investigating Officer / Agency / Address
Sgt. Mike Allen
West Memphis Police Department
100 Court Street
West Memphis, AR 72301
Laboratory Case Number: 93-05717
Date Received in Lab: 05/07/93
How Evidence Received: M E / Matthew Elliott
Agency Case Number:
Suspect (s):
Victim (s):
Steve Edward Branch
Date of Report; 06/10/93
FIELD INVESTIGATION. WEST MEMPHIS TRIPLE HOMICIDE. MAY 12 and
MAY 13. 1993 LUMINOL:
This analyst and Kermit Channell, Serologist responded to request to perform luminol on
a potential crime scene area on May 12, 1993. We left that afternoon, arriving in West
Memphis at approximately 6:30 P.M., proceeding to the Police Department.
Officers Tony Anderson, Brian Ridge, and Mike Allen accompanied Kermit and myself
to a swampy area in the northern edge of West Memphis where the victims were found.
A general survey of the area in the daylight hours was conducted. Approaching darkness
fresh solutions of luminol reagent were prepared. When the area became dark, using
flashlights for light support, the part returned to the area and proceeded to spray and
locate areas of luminol light emission activity, a presumptive test for the presence of
trace quantities of blood. The following observations were noted:
(1) At a trail along a stream bed an approximately 11 foot high bluff overlooking the
stream positive reactions were noted on either side of a tree with more reaction noted to
the right side of the tree, facing the stream bed.
(2) An Area with used plastic sheeting west of the trail and the bluff gave more positive
reactions were noted.
(3) At the west bank of the stream bed, to the right of some trees, an area gave positive
reaction. It was explained by the Police Department that this was where two of the
victims were placed when they were recovered from the stream bed.
(4) In the stream bed, below the described (at one time) water line, positive luminol tests
indicated where one of the victims was found in the water as related by the West
Memphis Police Department.
(5) On the east bank of the stream bed were a pile of sticks and a depression in the soil
where luminol tests showed a concentrated area of positive reaction.
[PAGE 2]
(6) North of this point luminol tests gave positive reaction to a large area of
concentration (described by West Memphis Police Department where the third victims
was placed upon recovery from the water).
(7) North of the point #6 near some tree roots, another large area of concentration of the
luminol reaction was noted.
(8) Trace amounts of positive luminol reaction was noted on the slope west of the area
where two of the victims were recovered and placed. (reference area #3). The areas north
and south of where the third victims had been placed (5) and (6) were unaccountable
known activity by the Memphis Police Department or rescue / recovery operations.
From these areas of noted luminol reactions for the presumptive presence of trace
amounts of blood the following opinion is rendered:
The traces of presumed blood detected along the trail (2), and at the bluff (1), and one the
slope (8) appear to be transfer of blood by the rescue and recovery teams.
Reaction in the areas where the recovered victims were placed is the apparent result of
trace blood transfer from the victims (3) and (6).
The area below the water level on the west side of the stream was accounted as where
trace amounts of the victimís blood diffused into the mud in the stream bed.
The areas (5) and (7) indicate activity prior to recovery of the victims and relate to
activity to the victims when perhaps they were being attacked.
It should be noted that the luminol testing was performed some days after the discovery
of the victims and at least one rainfall had occurred. There were no visible signs or
indication of blood at any of the locations that we investigated.
[PAGE 3]
Upon the group returning that night to the police headquarters Inspector Gitchell and his
staff were advised of our findings. It is our opinion the crime had taken place where the
bodies of the victims were recovered. Inspector Gitchell was further advised of the
inability to document the luminol reaction of the evening because of the light leaks from
stars and the back scattered light from West Memphis. To document the luminescence
Inspector Gitchell was advised that we would have to place tenting over the areas of
interest and to block out all stray light possible.
The luminescence requires near total darkness to document luminol reactions in the open
field.
It was decided that Kermit and I should stay over the next day perform the tests again
and photograph them.
The morning of May 13, Inspector Gitchell provided us with equipment, supplies and
manpower needed to document the areas of positive luminol reaction. A test with plastic
covering over the canvas was erected and photographs were taken of the positive areas
noted of the previous evening again with fresh luminol application.
Because of the limitations due to some light leakage, physical activity in the area
destroying some of the reaction, the weather conditions of some light rain the night
before and the originally low concentration levels in the areas on the bluff (area #1), along
the trail (area #2), where the victims were placed (area #3), and the area in the stream bed
where the body was recovered (area #4) and the area above the recovery area (area #8)
we were not able to document photography as we observed these areas the evening of
May 12.
The tented area over the areas where the victim’s body was placed (#6) and the
questioned area (#5), subdued the light to a degree that a less than perfect photograph
could be obtained. These photographs still documented the areas of interest, showing
luminol reaction in respective areas. These photographs were without the benefit of flash
painting application to reference the areas photographed. A still photo of the questioned
area from the original camera tripod location does reference the questioned area. The
photographs were processed revealing the luminol reaction at areas where the victim was
place (#6) and the questioned area (#5)
[PAGE 4]
The tent was moved and photographs were taken of the questioned area by the tree root (#7). Photographs of the areas (#4, #5 and #6) with surveyor flags mounted were taken to reference those areas tested and photographed. All photographs were left with Inspector Gitchell.
[signed] Donald E. Smith, Criminalist
Soil samples were submitted on May 14, 1993, but for unknown reasons not tested until 4 months later, and did not react to the luminol.
The result was considered inconclusive as it was not likely to detect blood from a four month old soil sample in the first place.
Although the luminol reaction results were not admissible in the trials, for analysis purposes, it tells an irrefutable story. The obvious counter-argument could only be that investigators were new to the technique, some of the initial testing was unable to be photographed, or to any conspiracies, that detectives simply made up results for some purpose.
However, as none of the investigators present had the autopsy results prior to the testing, and most certainly did not have Jessie Miskelley’s “account” to draw from, outside of the known injuries and other more circumstantial evidence in this case, these findings certainly further support there were multiple perpetrators in this crime- and that it all went down right there.
In 1998, Damien Echols filed a Rule 37 hearing for causes of incompetent counsel and due to his “actual innocence.” Jessie Miskelley lost his appeal to overturn his conviction also in 1998, but It was not until 2008 that Baldwin and Miskelley filed their Rule 37 petitions. For purposes of evaluation, I am including affidavits , exhibits and testimony excerpts from some of the expert witnesses at all three hearings and subsequent related appearance spanning from 1998- 2008.
Brent Turvey, of Knowledge Solutions, LLC trained under renowned blood spatter expert Dr. Henry Lee, did not consider any of the luminal reports when hired by Dan Stidham in 1998 for his expert opinion in his representation of Jessie Miskelley requesting a new trial. Turvey’s report found (here) was largely the impetus for future defense experts for all three defendants to “weigh in”.
While Turvey’s work was largely unsupported once his infamous “bitemark” was debunked and he bought into the “Baldwin knife” which has since been abandoned by all subsequent defense experts, as the first guy up at bat so to speak, his testimony demonstrated the burgeoning direction to the CSI Effect the West Memphis Three would take toward their ultimate freedom.
I explore Turvey’s initial observations taken directly from his report, in the beginning of each unique victim’s autopsy segment, followed by updated relevant expert information and my subsequent analysis.
Autopsy By Coroner- Autopsy By Proxy
In the interest of brevity, I intend to focus on the dissenting views of the experts, and I stipulate that in no report that I have reviewed, was there evidence of sodomy or object penetration of any of the boys.
While I believe Dr. Perretti’s prior experience with cases that involved same did form his opinion on the possibility as it relates to some of the injuries, I do not believe that such testimony should have been permitted at trial, nor would it be permitted today.
Memphis Triple Homicide May 5, 1993
James M. Moore #ME-329-93
Steve E. Branch #ME-330-93
Chris M. Byers #ME-331-93
LOCATION: On May 6th, 1993, all three victims were found, bound wrist to ankle with shoe laces, in the water of a drainage ditch, in a heavily wooded area called the Robin Hood hills, behind the Blue Beacon Truck Wash in West Memphis, Arkansas. An equivocal forensic examination of all available crime scene and autopsy photos, crime scene video, investigator’s reports, witness statements, family statements, autopsy reports and numerous other sources to be listed as referenced in the endnote section of this report. The purpose of this preliminary examination was to competently assess the nature of the interactions between the victims and their environments as it contributed to their deaths as indicated by available forensic evidence, and the documentation regarding that evidence.
James M. Moore
James Michael Moore autopsy found here.
The following forensic information is taken directly from the official autopsy report filed by Dr. Frank J. Peretti of the Arkansas State Crime Lab, Medical Examiner Division, dated 5-7-93, Case No. ME-329-93 and/ or from The official coroner’s report filed by Kent Hale, Crittenden County Coroner, dated 5-6-97.
The purpose of this section is not to present an all inclusive, detailed account and explanation of every piece of information in these reports, but rather to explore these reports, with the corresponding photos, for consistency, possible omissions, and to review injuries or patterns that this examiner deemed to be significant to the case.
Wound Pattern Analysis
This victim received more traumatic head injuries than any of the other victims in this case. Dr. Peretti states that defense wounds were present on the victim’s hands. These wounds were very few, indicating that victim was incapacitated quickly after the attack began. So the nature of these head injuries, and the limited defensive type wounds, combine to indicate sudden, forceful, and repeated blows that resulted in abraded contusions, multiple lacerations, and multiple skull fractures.
There is an unexplained directional pattern abrasion just below the victim’s right anterior shoulder area.
This unexplained injury does not correspond with any of the physical evidence collected at the location that victim was discovered. It is furthermore inconsistent with any of the naturally occurring elements that exist in that environment. The best conclusion that this examiner can reach is that this pattern abrasion was created by forceful, directional contact with something that was not found at that crime scene, whether it be a weapon, a surface or something else capable of creating that pattern.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did not leave deep furrows, and also did not leave abrasions. This indicates that the victim was not struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much unconscious when the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiners opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
When compared to the other two victims in this case, who were found at the same location, bound nude with shoelace ligatures in the same fashion, the most striking discrepancy is the lack of injuries suffered by this victim. In the crime scene and autopsy photos made available to this examiner, there were no readily discernible bite marks visible, the genitals have not been visibly disturbed or molested, and there are no discernible stab wounds. This lack of attention is very telling, and will be discussed in the Offender Characteristics section of this report. There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Analysis: I find the statement that he had the least amount of injuries, yet the most severe head injuries in dire conflict, as he died from multiple injuries, and drowning. The fractures to his head and lacerations to his left and front right skull were enough to cause his death within minutes on their own, and there can be no doubt that he received them while he was already unconscious because of the lack of injury at the ligature sites. There is very little hemorrhage involvement with the open lacerations, and all lacerations were abraded; one with a dovetail and upside down L producing an ovid fracture. In Jesse Miskelley’s confessions, he says one of them was moving as he was put in the water while he was leaving. I believe the reason he never mentioned that Michael Moore was beat about the head with an instrument of some kind is because he never saw that. Michael was located in the ditch just below the oak with the exposed root that had the luminol result “shaped like a V”, which would be consistent with him struggling to get out of that water, on that bank, with a cast off or blood spatter pattern consistent with someone beating him toward the bank and in front of that tree.
Mosquito bites: Only females take a blood meal, so that potentially reduces the population by 50%, and at no time will they bite a deceased person. They are attracted mostly by carbon dioxide, released from a breathing person. Both Dr. Haskell and Dr. Goff agreed to this ultimately.
What is further curious to me, is that while Turvey was hired by Miskelley, who confessed at least three times by the date of the generation of this report, does he not note the obvious discrepancy for the placement of Mike Moore upstream, or that he was found on his right side with the left side surfacing when in effect dislodged by Det. Mike Allen. Moore was also hogtied differently, with different knots than the other 2 victims, with ONE black shoelace. There is a reason that Turvey was not given Miskelley’s updated confession following his conviction, and instructed to disprove it; he would not have been able to.
Steven Edward Branch
Stevie Branch autopsy found here.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s face and head, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti, however, does not note the presence of extensive defensive wounds.
This indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The constellation of wounds are very similar to those inflicted on James Moore, however they are much more intense and include the victim’s face.
This level of attention paid to the victim’s face, in terms of depersonalization and rage, is indicative of familiarity and that will be explored later on in this report.
Furthermore, there is the existence of patterned injuries all over this victim’s face that could be bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis. [note: Dr. Thomas David, board certified forensic odontologist, has confirmed the wound as a human adult bitemark and excluded Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley as the offender using bite impressions obtained from the men in prison] Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting.
Another unidentified pattern compression abrasion can be found on the back of Steve Branch’s head. The source of this injury caused a 3? inch fracture at the base of the skull with multiple extension fractures that terminate in the foramen magnum (that’s the hole at the base of the skull where the spinal cord connects to the brain). Upon close examination, this pattern injury is consistent with compression made from footwear. Again, without better photos supplied to the examiner showing a variety of angles, it’s very difficult to make a positive identification of any kind. But the pattern is consistent with a footwear impression, and would require a footwear impression expert to analyze and make an informed, competent determination.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles. We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, as well as in the victim’s mouth, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts, again, suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiner’s opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
There is again a lack of evidence to support any sort of strangulation. Dr. Peretti states that his examination of the neck of this victim revealed no injuries, and the photos that this examiner has seen support that conclusion.
Analysis: He missed the wound to Stevie Branch’s penis entirely. While not contained in his formal autopsy report, it was proven during the trial that Dr. Peretti’s colleague was called into evaluate what Turvey was calling “bite marks” and was ruled out. The fact that bite impressions did not match Echols, Baldwin or Miskelley was in no way exculpatory, and I will save you the bite by some animal with a rough tounge report nonsense I had to read .
The 3” fracture at the base of the skull, which “spiderwebbed” into subsequent fractures, also very likely severed his spinal cord, so one must assume this injury was also quite perimortem.
Steve ‘s left face was found to be abraded on the entire left side, and is consistent with someone either stomping on right side of his neck and fracturing it, with an obvious boot print, if the left side of the face was on the ground.
The gouging wounds- likely had to be inflicted following the fracture due to the lack of hemorrhage in comparison to the severity of the wound, and all experts agreed the injury was likely perimortem. So the question becomes- why?
Seems like a very important question, second only to what caused the trauma, based on the constellation of terminal injuries already inflicted on him. Wouldn’t the only thing left to do at that point be to submerge him?
It is my theory- therein lies the problem. Byers was put in the ditch first, and we know he was already deceased, therefore, he sinks. Stevie Branch is placed in the water next to him, and he either begins moving or floats and the suspects thinks he is still alive, and uses an implement to force him into the ditch bottom until he succumbs and stays submerged. I will leave out the specifics of the gouging wound as to why I think that resulted in the usage of the other end of the ice axe on Michael Moore. The luminol result, found in the ditch bed itself, after it was drained, slightly downstream from Byers and Branch, but still upstream from Moore could also support this theory. We know that Byers had already bled out, but Branch was still alive when he was put into the water and the only significant bleeding wound on his person capable of leaving blood evidence in the bottom of the ditch to survive it simply being washed away in the creek, there is a high degree of probability he bled directly into the dirt. He was found face down.
Christopher Byers
Christopher Byers autopsy found here.
It should be noted that this victim’s injuries were the most extensive, most violent, and most overtly sexual of the all the victims in this case. The nature and extent of this victim’s wounds indicate that the assailant spent the most time with this victim.
Additionally, this victim’s toxicology report revealed non-therapeutic levels of carbamazepine in the blood. All of these differences are very important, and will be explored in the later sections of this report.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s head, specifically to the base of the skull. There was also evidence of the violent emasculation of the victim’s sex organs, extensive lacerations and bruising to the victim’s buttocks, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti also noted that there were numerous healed injuries of varying nature on this victim. Dr. Peretti, however, did not note the presence of defensive wounds.
Again, this indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The general constellation of wounds to this victim is more advanced, more extensive, more overtly sexually oriented and includes the use of a knife.
This knife was used not only to inflict multiple stabbing and cutting injuries to the victim’s inner thighs and genital area, it was used in the emasculation process. There is, unmentioned in either the ME’s or Coroner’s reports, what appears to be a clear impression of the knife handle on the right side of the large gaping defect left behind after the removal of the victims penis, scrotal sac, and testes. This was impression was created when the knife was thrust full length into the victim by the assailant, during the process of emasculation. This indicates forceful, violent thrusts. The nature of this emasculation, as indicated by these wounds, is neither skilled nor practiced. It was a rageful, careless, but purposeful act carried out in anger.
It is the opinion of this examiner that this injury would have resulted in massive, uncontrollable blood-loss, from which the victim could not have survived without immediate medical attention.
It should also be pointed out that the nature of the stab wounds inflicted on the victim’s genital area, separate from those received during the emasculation process, show marked irregular configuration and pulling of the skin. This indicates that either the knife was being twisted as the assailant stabbed the victim, or that the victim was moving as the blade was withdrawn.
The second set of injuries is described as five superficial cutting wounds on the left buttock (pictured on the left in this photo at the right). It should be noted that these injuries are actually lacerations, as indicated by the bridging between the open tissue, and the irregular edges. Both indicators are apparent upon close examination of the photographs. It is the opinion of this examiner that this set of injuries is most consistent with the parental whipping given to Chris Byers by Mark Byers. It is further the opinion of this examiner that after having received this set of injuries, which tore open the skin and would have resulted in some severe bleeding, the victim would have been unable to walk or ride a bicycle without incredible pain and discomfort.
The third set of injuries is the multiple linear superficial interrupted cuts on the right buttock region (pictured in the photo above on the right). These injuries are not consistent with having been made by a belt as they are cuts. The edges are not irregular, and the cuts are interrupted, again indicating movement by the victim or the assailant during the attack.
Furthermore, there is the existence of bruised ovoid compression injuries all over this victim’s inner thigh that could be suction type bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis.
Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints and positively identify a suspect. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting. The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that this victim did not drown, that is to say that no hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, or well in the victim’s mouth. This indicates that the victim was already dead when he was placed into the 2? ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills. This is, again, very different from the other two victims in this case.
Dr. Richard Souviron forensic odontologist: all mutilation is peri and post mortem, no knife was used.
On a final note, Mr. Hale states in his supplemental report on Chris Byers that there is a stab wound on his head. This is actually incorrect, and rectified by Dr. Peretti who states in his autopsy report of Chris Byers that the same injury is a 1¼-inch laceration to the left parietal scalp.
There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Additionally, unlike Steve Branch, there is no overkill present in this victim’s face. That is to say that this is another of the marked differences between the killings of Steve Branch and Chris Byers which is very important to note, and which will be explored more thoroughly in this report.
Recommendations
It is apparent from the physical evidence in this case that Chris M. Byers was attacked with sudden, violent force from which he defended himself in only a limited fashion. It appears as though this attack took place, at least in part, while his cloths were off and while the shoelace ligatures restrained him. He was sexually assaulted (an assault of a sexual nature, to areas of the body considered to be sexual, that does not include sexual penetration), and associated stab wounds indicate that he may have been conscious during several phases of the attack.
Analysis: How does he miss that the dosage of (car) was sub therapeutic, meaning below the level at which he was described and confuse it as non-therapeutic, in his estimation, as a possible means to subdue him. He completely missed the fact that it is likely that the level, found in his blood, was greatly reduced because there was very little blood volume left in his body. AND, it was a prescribed medication. Turvey does not mention the other factors that support Byers died first, and he died quickly and violently. While he did have stomach contents, he did not have any urine in his blatter and there was substantative evidence his bowels had evacuated at the scene, commonly a result of an immediate violent death.
Consensus or Conundrum- Depends Who You Ask
Regardless of which expert one believes, within the confines of each report, is the absence of the belief with any certainty that the “Baldwin” serrated knife was used. What they all agree on, is that the gouging injuries to Branch and Byers were very similar. They all agree that there was evidence of blunt force trauma, significant curvilinear fractures, what is commonly referred to in Forensic Pathology today as “chop wounds”, other sharp force trauma.
Thoughts onPost Mortem Animal Predation
I agree it is possible that snapping turtles could have caused what looks to be possible claw marks and at least one possible bite mark. I am emphasizing possible because I don’t think one can rule out animal predation 100%
Bryn Ridge himself testified he has seen snapping turtles in that area, some time ago. That said, there was not so much as a crawfish found in that creek as it was being pumped out, and that included a screen.
Dr. Spitz went as far as to suggest that somehow a carnivore of some kind was the cause of the animal predation although all oter evidence suggests that the boys were completely submerged, as well as their clothing, and there was obviously no animal tracks or other artifacts at the scene that would make that theory sound anything remotely believable. Thankfully, he stopped short of suggesting that a new breed of homicidal carnivores with a cleaner crew who could walk upright was responsible.
Fortunately I Dressed For Bushwhacking
Starting with one of the most important parts of the autopsy evidence, is the very fact that detectives knew VERY LITTLE about it outside of the cause of death, until late May at the earliest. So little in fact, that Gary Gitchell, Lead Investigator, wrote a list of follow up questions to the crime lab on May 26. (need link here)
Frank J. Peretti, MD preformed all three autopsies on May 7, 1993, and filed reports on May 10th for cause of death only. Those causes of death btw, were all listed as homicide by multiple injuries, period. Nobody knew that two boys died from drowning, and not all three. This is particularly concerning because the first conversation that Steve Jones and Det Sudbury had with Damien Echols was on May 7th prior to autopsy and in his subsequent interview with Det Bryn Ridge on May 10, when asked by Ridge how he knew about that, Echols told Ridge that Jones told HIM that whoever did this “urinated” in the mouths of the boys.
Urine was found in the stomachs of 2 of the victims, but that information was given by phone only to Gitchell, and not before May 16th, 1993. There is no possible way Damien Echols could have had case- specific information unless he was there or knew someone that was that told him what occurred, as the detective interviewing him at the time was clueless to that fact during the interview.
There are certainly many statements by both Echols and Miskelley prior to arrest that indicate they had prior knowledge of the murders, but I have been able to ride the see saw on those for the most part, like many.
The fact that Echols knew that there was urine in the stomachs of two victims, when it was intentionally ommitted from the report can only mean he was there, or knew someone who was, and in my opinion, both.
To be continued, West Memphis Three Part III
Sources:
Crime lab Index: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/crimelab.html
Chris Byers autopsy:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html
Michael Moore:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autmm.html
Stevie Branch:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autsb.html
Turvey Report: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/b_turvey_profile.html
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I Ditto jacks October 28, 2011 at 7:30 pm comment to Blink
Nolongeronthefence -
hello, Thank you for that link- I havent got a chance to watch it yet, but it seems very interesting- I will let you know my thoughts after viewing.
Jack- It will take me awhile to respond… thank you very much for your responses- very well thought out
TY for the compliment I agree with Blink you are an excellent debater- and very respectful, non-confrontational, I so appreciate that.
I will return the compliment without reservation: nice work jack, you are a wonderful advocate for your stance.
ps everyone- I seem to have left off some links to my previous comments
I apologize
DE photos of search ect
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/de_search.html
and JB photos of search ect
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/jb_search_warrant.html
and Jury charts showing wax on shirt factored in
http://callahan.8k.com/images2/jury_charts/notes_echols.jpg
and
jury notes on LS noting she was seen as unbiased, credible, and knowledgeable…yet where are the lab reports, where is the testing… how can she be unbiased and knowledgeable if she was going to testify to being scared/uneasy of JB “satanic” “cult” like posters and drawings
http://callahan.8k.com/images2/jury_charts/l_sakevicius.jpg
AJMO
NoLongerOnTheFence says:
October 28, 2011 at 11:02 am
Since this case hinges on Jessie’s confessions, it’s obviously important to establish whether or not those confessions were legit.
You really NEED to watch this amazing episode of FRONTLINE from last year (LINK BELOW). It’s called Confessions. It deals with a very bizarre case that you will not believe. I promise you won’t regret it.
WATCH: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-confessions/
After you watch it, let’s see how this show relates to Jessie’s confessions.
I was on deadline all day, if anyone else has a chance to comment on this link, would be swell.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@NoLongerOnTheFence: Thank you for posting a link to the story of the Norfolk4, four U.S. sailors who, based on their false confessions, were wrongly accused of raping and murdering an 18 year old woman. For those who have a difficult time understanding why an individual would falsely confess to a heinous crime s/he did not commit, this is a ‘must see’. The site also contains several links to scholarly articles about the psychology of false confessions and interrogation techniques.
There are many parallels with JM’s confessions. But this is also a thought provoking expose of how one justice system formulated a theory at the outset and held fast, despite virtually irrefutable evidence to the contrary. I would like to point out some of the parallels, but, I think it would be nice for more of you to get the chance to watch the documentary first, without hearing the spoilers. This documentary will not disappoint you, and will give you a lot to ponder.
@ Mom 3.0:
Nobody can go back and change what’s happened…not the release, not the trial, nor the night those innocent little boys were tortured and slaughtered. It just is what it is, to borrow a phrase.
Tragedy runs the full gamut of this story…from Echols’ history of mental problems and abuse; to the effects of poverty on the innocents and the “3″; to the failures in investigating techniques (I’m not sure anyone in LE could have been prepared for the heinous nature of that scene or its emotional toll); to the fact that everyone in Crittenden County was completely disenfranchised by the Alford Plea and the subsequent release of the murderers, who were convicted by juries.
Justice has been un-done, and it mocks the HELL that those little boys went through. That seems to be lost on many who support the “3″. Supporters argue that DE, JB, and JM are victims as well…that they were failed by the justice system. The fact remains that the justice system WORKED until it was supplanted by someone who, admittedly knew nothing about the case.
But there are other victims that are forgotten. You cannot imagine what the Medford and VanVickle families have endured over the years. Other witnesses have been threatened, overtly and subversively, by “Supporters”.
There is a spectre that hangs over West Memphis and effects all the residents of this area.
I drive past the murder scene every day. While the “woods” have been cleared, it’s still an undeveloped area. Turtle Hill still stands as a reminder of the heinous actions committed there. That tree-lined bayou and creek echo “Injustice for Stevie, Michael, and Christopher! They’ve been forgotten.”
I’m not trying to single you out. I do appreciate your point of view. You bring up some fascinating points.
My “job” here is to keep reminding people of the true victims. The “3″ are not, IMO, victims of anything except choices they made.
@Jack Dobson:
Those stories (not just the softball girls) will probably never be told. $10 million for the “defense” has made people very brazen. Some things said and done to witnesses and LE are unbelievable, but they are not my stories to tell. Frankly, I don’t expect many of those stories to see the light of day because these people have class and dignity. They remember that the real story is about Stevie, Michael, and Christopher…and it always will be.
Here is a link to an excellent paper on false confessions:
http://www.jaapl.org/content/37/3/332.full.pdf+html
Quick recap of the Norfolk Four case:
Young woman is raped and murdered in her apartment. No forced entry, seems like a one-person attack.
Within hours of discovering the body one of the victim’s friends suspects the neighbor.
Cops bring neighbor in for questioning. He’s a schluby Navy guy who’s been married for 11 days at that time.
They yell at him for 12 hours telling him he’s going the get the death penalty and he SIGNS A DETAILED CONFESSION ADMITTING THE RAPE AND MURDER. (I think the first version said he beat her with a shoe, the statement was amended when they discovered she was stabbed.)
Case was solved in the first 24 hours.
Two months later the DNA comes back. It doesn’t match the guy in jail. The cops go back to the guy in jail and say “who was the other guy who helped you rape her?” The guy names one of his friends who happens to be sailor named Joe Dick. (But let’s call him Jessie Misskelley #2)
After a long interrogation and threats of the death penalty, Joe Dick (Jessie #2) admits to the crime and signs DETAILED STATEMENT saying that he and the first guy Daniel (Jessie #1) raped and killed the woman. Two guys in jail.
Months later the DNA comes back and it’s still not a match. Cops go back to Joe Dick and ask him “who else helped you guys with this murder?” Joe Dick picks a picture out of Navy yearbook of a guy he barley knows. The cops bring this guy in for questioning.
After a long interrogation where they yell at this new guy (Jessie #3), he ALSO makes a statement that he too was involved in the murder. These confessions are very detailed statements, progressive in nature to keep including the new guys as they are added.
I can’t type for days, so let me cut to the chase: This cycle interrogation/arrest goes on until they have 7 guys in jail! SEVEN JESSIES! Some with iron clad alibis showing that they didn’t do the crime.
So why is this happening? Because of the confessions. Attorneys for at least two of them men interviewed in the Frontline show claim their clients are guilty. The clients told their attorneys they did it (even tho they didn’t do it.)
At least two of the guys who confessed actually started to believe they did the crimes! They testified in court and even tearfully apologized to the victims family.
Even when they caught the real killer and he admitted to doing the crime alone AND HIS DNA showed him to be the sole perpetrator, they still wouldn’t let the other guys go free because of their confessions.
The real killer had this to say about the guys who confessed: “Those guys is stupid!”
Would you confess to something you didn’t do? Would you confess in great detail? Would you confess over and over again even after the pressure of interrogation is over?
I had to listen to one of these confessions for myself to see if I had the same reaction I had as when I heard / read Jessie’s statements. They guys said that the cops spent hours and hours making them rehearse and perfect their confessions. Here’s a link to one:
http://www.norfolk4guilty.com/Tice_Confession.mp3
Note a few things from his confession that the cops clearly made him say: Crime was premeditated, all suspects raped her, all suspects stabbed her to make them equally guilty.
But the biggest surprise to me was something I haven’t heard or read about before. At 4:20 and 8:59 in the confession linked above, the suspect admits that this crime was “WICCAN / DRUID” cult-based and that they debated bring her body “to the woods to complete the ceremony.”
@Julio:
I have heard from very reliable second-hand sources about some of these antics. Until a public relations agent admitted (inadvertently) that the defense team had hired him to distort the DNA test results so as to influence the potential jury pool, I have realized some of the things I had blown off may have been true. I do hope that one day they do name names if the stories about attempts to buy testimony and so forth are true, which I now think may have happened.
Still, give my best and my thanks to your friend. I imagine she could tell me about much worse than attempted subordination of perjury. Nonetheless, she held firm and served the cause of justice.
NoLongerOnTHEFENCE and Grace-
hello, that story of the Norfolk 4 is very sad
4 people confessed to a murder and rape because of Police interrogation techniques ect ect-
Despite nothing connecting them to the crime they all “confessed” one giving up his friends because it was said he couldnt have committed the crime alone- his friends in turn confessed…when they caught the real rapist murderer, which DNA proved he was, LE unwilling to let their theory /case against the others die, convinced him to say he had done the crime WITH the innocent (yet proven guilty) men…
False confessions happen- and they happen more than we care to admit- again, I do not know if that is what happened in the WM3 case, but I believe this scenario can not be ruled out because of JM’s lies and meandering ever changing wrong details ect-
Like in the Norfolk 4 case, JM was told he was lying his azz off and that he failed a polygraph- and he was scared and worn down…
The polygraphs in this case are all suspect in my mind because they they were not all taped,and not everyone was subjected to them, and we are unsure of the administers expertize, as well as the working order of the machine.. and we are not able to know what all was asked ect and we do not know who was on meds ect ect.
Also in many-deception is noted… with several people JM’s friend with the shoes,( BTW have you all heard this kids /moms conversation with Det Ridge?- this kod was scared to death and anybody that scared would fail a polygraph)…
“deception noted” but what does that even mean?… especially when compared to M Carsons findings which are labeled as “essentially” truthful what in the world?… that could mean so many different things-
AJMO
Julio,
Hello thank you for your response.
I agree none of us can go back and change anything in this sad story- If we could I am sure we would all opt to go back before May 5th 1993 and stop these murders from happening… Alas, we can not.
I agree that everyones “history” in this case is tragic, the poverty, the broken homes ect.
I also agree that there were MAJOR failures in the investigating techniques- and I will agree that LE was not prepared for the heinous nature of the scene-
but that is no excuse- Julio- if it has been said that they removed the children from the creek, because they could not stand to leave them in the water…. well that seems disingenuous, at best, because instead of removing them and covering them, and giving them some dignity, they left their little naked bodies on the banks of that ditch, in full view, and open to the elements and flies ect-
They did not wear gloves, they put evidence in paper bags that they obtained from a nearby store- FTLOG, and they removed clothing and evidence without gloves and proper attire…they left it out to dry on sticks & in nicely folded piles TOGETHER- contaminating everything!…. and they LIED on the stand -when asked about its collection saying- they put the clothes in the bags when wet…
and what of the evidence photos of the clothing- like the polka dot shirt? and the petro bag findings and the shoes? these were taken from the evidence bags and photographed on regular old furniture…an old couch somewhere, and the carpeted FLOOR of a Det office-a FLOOR! and what of the shirt of Chris’ was it found? Because if it was, I can not find ANY photos of it….like so much other evidence..
Being traumatized by the scene can only take LE so far- LE FAILED in EVERY aspect of this case- I’m sorry but its true- and if anyone is to blame for the Alford plea IT IS THEM.
The juries did convict the 3 youre right Julio, but from reading the charts, I can tell you that the evidence they used, which was supplied by the prosecution and poorly argued by the defense is QUESTIONABLE at best- and a complete lie at worst—
The supposed candle wax..Where is it? Where is the testing? What shirt was it on? Where are the candles of DE? Where is the lab results on the comparisons matching? Were these things supplied to the jury so they could “play detective”??
The fiber evidence- was “similar” NOT conclusive- where are the photos of this robe and the shirt and the toilet seat cover? Was this evidence supplied to the jury so they could “play detective”?
The lake knife- that was touted as the murder weapon- WAS NOT
The “satanic trappings” Where are they? the metal shirts? Not satanic big deal- the records ? not satanic big deal- the “Aliester” code big deal- yikes there it is– a code was Satanic…!? It was confiscated from DE’s cell- in which he was trying to remember the code to write a love letter to the mother of his baby.. so it would be private- he wasnt writing his manifesto or spells of freedom or plans of murders… yet all of these things and more were held up to show the jury he was “soulless” and capable of these murders-
I do not see it as justice being undone- Julio- to me it seems that justice was never done- There should have been another trial-
how can a jury base their verdict of guilt on questionable evidence, along with things they were not supposed to consider- (JM confession) and come to justified conclusion??
JB- how can he be tried with damien and have so little evidence pointing to his guilt, and yet be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt on such evidence as: “low self esteem” the “lake knife” and being “Damiens best friend” How is that justice?
I totally disagree that reviewing the evidence and the trials and questioning whether or not justice was done “mocks the hell out of these little boys” If LE was wrong on so much: the investigation, the gathering of evidence, the handling of the scene, and witnesses ect and the “ritualistic” nature of the crimes- how can we be sure they didnt get it ALL wrong? What if it is a case of LE holding to their theory and having tunnel vision on the wrong perps? How is righting this wrong- mocking the little victims?
Julio, I know it may seem like I am a supporter of these three, I am not- I assure you, I do not know if they committed these horrible murders, they could have- I may not know everything -but in everything I have reviewed, I think there is reasonable doubt- I can not follow the evidence on Callahans and reach a conclusion of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt- and that is my sticking point- evidence is lost and NEVER obtained-ect ect
How can we be sure any of it is based in facts I know the motive wasnt….?
I again am very sorry for what The Medfords and the Vanvicle families have gone through- I think that is WRONG- but having said that- I do not think questioning the statements as not an overheard “confession” is disrespectful or unkind.
Even though I am not a local and even though I just recently started reading about the murders of little Stevie, Mike and Chris, I assure you, they will never be forgotten by me, and I will say a prayer for them and their families and the town, each night before I go to bed.
I am and will always be a victims advocate- nomatter what – and I believe that many “supporters” and “nons” alike are on the same side that of Stevie, Mike and Chris- and all are on the side of justice-
As you said, the past can not be undone, but we can learn from any past mistakes and IMO many many were made in this case- by LE the Defense and the Prosecution- lets make sure noone is doomed to repeat them.
With much kindness and respect-
AJMO-
Jack- Hi- I will have to respond to your posts asap-
TGF- I just wanted to let you know that I enjoy all music-big band music and all oldies such as Al Bowley and the 40′s and 50′s greats too-
even The old grand ole opry days-
TGF hope you will return to this thread soon- I miss youre imput- as Autry would say-
“Vaya Con Dios” – My friend nomatter where you choose to hang your hat.
I just wanted to wish everyone a happy and safe Halloween-
Not in the least, and you are correct.
B
Mom3.0
Does that include Minnie Pearl as well. Listening to the original broadcasts of the grand ole opry in the early 1940′s was the highlight of a saturday evening.
I have not gone anywhere. Still reading everything you guys write. You and Jack have had such a great exchange, there was little for me to do except ask a question from time to time.
Until the people realize that LE in general need to improve their level of training and understanding of science as related to finding and preserving evidence, we will have agencies such as WM that make all the mistakes we have observed. This will not happen without proper funding and public auditing of the effort.
We as a society have progressed well beyond the average persons ability to understand their world with only a limited education. We have removed the reason for people to learn to read and write with comprehension at the high school level. It has become politically correct to give a trophy or high marks to all regardless if they are deserved by doing the tasks required to truly earn them.
We don’t have many little people in the area, so Halloween is just another evening. Moms and dads have to take the little ones in a vehicle to do “trick or treat”.
Hi Jack, I must apologize for taking so long to respond- I was very busy.
Thankyou so much for taking the time to break down your thoughts and reasoning- I must say this has been one of the most informative and amicable debates I have ever had via the internet.
Your points are well thought out and backed with loads of facts ect- there have been more than a few times where I have questioned my own reasoning- so thank you- and I will continue to keep an open mind and research-
You wrote:
(my responses follow **)
October 26, 2011 at 10:43 pm
@Mom:
I’ll have to do this in snippets to cover your main points. As to Part 2:
The police interrogation is terrible, no question about it. Does this mean that what Carson said was untrue? It doesn’t. As a matter of fact, those parts where it strongly seems Beall wants to plant answers, Carson doesn’t embellish: Did Baldwin say anything about the other two killers? “No.” About Damien in particular? “No.” These answers tend to show a reluctance to embellish, and in fact make Carson more credible IMO. The police interrogation was done so badly and with the apparent intention to produce specific results it really is hard to affix blame outside of Beall.
**I agree with this Jack up until Carson did not embellish- How can we really know ….
as in the one statement it reads that Carson did include DE in on some of it-
also- JM and DE were never mentioned by MC, until he was asked directly about them by name- then he suddenly seems to recall JB threatening harm to JM-
I also must point out we do not know how precise and unwavering MC may have been…afterall his father’s statement was never taken asking about what MC told him initially-
nor was the prosecuting attorneys statement taken, asking about what MC may have first conveyed, in the one or two times in which MC went to his “home” office…BTW I brought this fact up regarding the location, because I do find it very unprofessional and perhaps even sketchy for a prosecuting attorney to interview a witness in a triple homicide, at his home office and fail to utilize tapes or notes to document what was said…- also, What was said in the first phone calls ect? We will never know how consistent or how embellished MC statements were/became over each telling…
You wrote:
As to how the admission or alleged admission transpired at the card game, prominent death penalty opponent Billy Sinclair has written that it struck him as highly credible from Carson’s description of the detention environment. I don’t really think there is such a thing as a prison environment expert, but Sinclair certainly knows more about it more than I do.
**This is a very interesting point Jack- and I would tend to agree that most jail house confessions would occur in similar circumstances- BUT we are talking about two sixteen year old males -I find it HIGHLY doubtful that JB would confess to such graphic details involving the genitalia of his victims to another inmate that is supposedly watching over him …NO 16 year old kid is gonna admit to a grotesque version of fellatio which also includes a blood fetish all while using the word “penis” …
You wrote:
Obviously Carson’s descriptions of the players are inconsistent, as you point out, and only becomes harmonious after Beall leads Carson to do so.
**Agreed Jack
You-
My primary problem with the interview in this segment is with the police questioning. It was pathetic. OTOH, Carson refused to take the bait to make this a larger admission than it was or purportedly was. This makes Carson come across as credible, but he could have other motives such as personal animus toward Baldwin or friendships with Echols and Misskelley about which we are unaware. I have no doubt about Carson’s claim that Baldwin wanted to kick Misskelley’s given the post-release interaction among these three.
**Agreed on the questioning and I would tend to agree with Carson not taking the bait and it seeming to paint him in a more positive light-I would also agree that MC could have other motives but mine would be of a more negative nature IRT MC
**As to JB planning to kick JM’s ass- NO WAY- even Carson says HE had to protect JB in jail- JB got in one fight in his life TMK, and he got his butt whopped- bloody nose and all- JB was a scrawny little thing—JM was a scrapper he wrestled- NO WAY JB would have went after JM to kick his butt.
You-
Finally, if we knew what if anything Danny Williams precisely told to Carson about the crime, we could give his statements a more accurate analysis. Alas.
**Agreed-
You-
As an aside, Baldwin would have been better-served with you handling the cross-examination than Ford,
**Ill take that as a compliment Jack, and I too think you would be an excellent member of the prosecuting team… the sad part is I do not think JB had a proper defense- from what I have read so far, his lawyer did one good thing- he tried to get JB and DE separate trials- he lost this- and at that point, I think he just gave it up…
AJMO
You-
In part 4, you do get inconsistencies. However, on the primary point, which is whether one or all penises, dicks, balls, scrotums, whatever were mutilated, the most telling line is Baldwin “made it sound like one dick.” Which, of course, was true. The attorney’s office in a renovated home is quite common in small towns and doesn’t strike me as significant one way or another unless I missed your point there.
** Except that statement “made it sound like one dick.” Came from the same form that the prosecution said was a paraphrased conversation…and the same statement in which MC reportedly blames DE also- I think Beall was just writing down what he wished MC had said, inadvertently or not –more mistakes by LE JMO
You-
I can’t over-emphasize how much Beall’s leading and suggestions may have muddied beyond recognition what comes across as at least a plausible account. I also have to wonder that if Williams in fact described generalized ritual atrocities Carson had a hard time squaring what Baldwin told him with what he heard from his counselor. This might account for the “one dick” vs. the plural or seeming plural. Ford should have flushed this out more, but there may have been a solid reason he didn’t want to do it: this might have prompted Danny Williams to be called by the State on rebuttal.
**Agreed-
You:
I have covered this already, but I don’t find “about a week” and “five days” that variant. The inability to give the precise day when Baldwin made the admission is highly problemmatic, along with who exactly was at the card game.
But if it was the truth and it did happen- why are these basic facts ever changing- as there can be no interpetation or feelings getting in the way- these facts would never change … the truth of facts doesnt change-
You-
Again, police ineptitude if not outright misconduct may have been the root of these discrepancies.
**Agreed, I do believe that LE’s handling is the root of most questions and doubt in this case…
You:
On the other hand, Carson took and passed a polygraph administered by the Arkansas State Police, an agency hardly as lacking as the West Memphis Police Department.
The results are here: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/mcpoly.html
Carson passed.
**Thanks for the link, agreed,
Except he didnt really pass- that is such a subjective finding—what it says is Carson was “essentially” truthful , which in my mind, is the same with “deception noted”- although in MC’s case, it seems LE again, was reporting their hopes- wanting to perhaps put a positive spin on this and didnt opt for “deception noted” bit instead “essentially truthful”
You-
Now for full disclosure, I don’t think polygraphs are worth a damn for anything other than rattling a witness
**Agreed Jack
Part 7. It is here where you, if you had been the foreman and I a juror, probably would have moved me to disregard the Carson testimony (I think I would have moved you on the softball girls, too, but that’s an aside).
**Please do try and walk me thru your thoughts on the testimony Jack- perhaps I am seeing it in the wrong light… I would welcome a different perspective.
You-
First let’s look at Mrs. Cureton’s entire testimony. It can be found here:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/bm_rule37/bm_rule37_cureton.html
Much of it can be disregarded for the following reasons:
“I was eventually fired by the Sheriff for taking a county car out of the county.”
**I dont think anyone should disregard testimony based on criminal behaviors- as many LEO in this case went on to have problems with embezzlement ect- and a few were jailed or fired ect…
You:
Remember this in conjunction with this extraordinary claim among others:
“It was the Sheriff who asked me to leave the county after Paul Ford had asked me to be available to testify at the sentencing hearing. (BMHR 663).”
**It is a fact jack that witnesses or possible witnesses in many trial are hidden, for lack of a better word by either side-
**as in this particular case wasnt Vicki H and Aaron skirted off to a motel until they could testify?… and Vicki was even told to stay away from the families (at least publicly) so has not to show bias…
You:
Now what did Mr. Ford think about how helpful Ms. Cureton would have been at trial?
From her own testimony at the Rule 37 hearing:
“I did not testify in the trial of the case. I was outside of court when Michael Carson testified. I have no independent recollection of whether Carson, Baldwin, a kid named Biddle and another juvenile named Jason played cards together.
“Ford called me at home one Friday night, but that was after the trial. (BMHR 641). Baldwin’s lawyers did not contact me about Michael Carson. (BMHR 641-642). Ford’s contact after the trial was to ask me what kind of a kid Baldwin had been while he was incarcerated there. But the contact was not about Carson or allegations made by Carson. Nor was I asked if I had any records or if my staff
had any records that could be useful to address the Michael Carson allegations. To my knowledge, the Baldwin defense team never tried to identify any of the kids who were involved in the alleged card game with Carson. Nor did any of the black inmates who were in the facility get interviewed by the Baldwin defense lawyers. (BMHR 643-644).”
So Mr. Ford, who had subpoeana power and could have forced Mrs. Cureton to testify despite the big, bad sheriff who fired her, chose not to do so.
**Ford chose not to do a lot of things Jack- I think his heart wasnt in it- we already discussed his poor performance- IMO the defense failed to provide An adequate defense- many witnesses’s were not called that most definitely should have been-
**such as-
Jason’s teacher who said that he was a good kid and was a a-b student- his fellow classmates that said he was reserved and kind and nice his actual friend in jail:
**Duncan remembered his stint there and added that he and Jason
purposely avoided him as he was a troublemaker
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/bm_rule37/bm_rule37_duncan.html
You:
So Carson’s testimony–which very well may be true–could have been discounted by me because of the State’s failure to produce a witness or custodian of documents to corroborate his claims. Add in the leading questions from police and inconsistencies as to the exact times and persons present and it can be disregarded.
So I will throw out the testimony of Carson, even though I do believe Baldwin, who like Echols was a world class punk, said something in the form of an admission to Carson.
What I still have is the completely credible softball girls. Would there have been reasonable doubt? Yes, easily, until Echols testified. Nonetheless, even after Echols was devastated in cross-examination there would/could have been reasonable doubt as to Baldwin because the Carson testimony was crucial to his conviction.
The trial court’s mistake was not granting a severance of the Baldwin and Echols trial and putting the latter in the dock first. This would have squeezed the Baldwin defense team into a possible plea.
**I appreciate your reviewing everything and acknowledging reasonable doubt- also for conceding carsons testimony…
**I would very much like to hear why you think DE’s testimony was so damaging- I agree he was not the best witness… I think what sealed DE’s fate was his courtroom antics- his behaviors were atrocious and did not paint him in a sympathetic light AT ALL- Heck I want to punch him HARD today- for his behaviors—
**I am not sure why we shouldkeep the softball girls statements either – it was an overheard conversation in a public place – in full view and earshot of a myriad of other people…
**LE never received any confirmation by another adult other workers or attendees or security ect there that day- except IIRC, by another girl..and many rumors to who was there and who heard what ect….
**Again, I would like to read your take- on this, as well as your perspective on the candle wax and shirts, and other questions I posted IRT the evidence and photos ect which I am unable to find..
I look forward to reading more of your posts jack- thank you for giving me so much to think about.
AJMO
TGF- good to see you- I am glad you havent abandoned the thread-
Yes I remember Minney- I once asked my momma about the price tag- Why doesnt she cut that off? LOL
I agree with your thoughts- TGF-
Lots of people dont celebrate Halloween …whether they have kids or not- but I do, so I just wanted to wish everyone a great one- hope no one took offense…
When I was little, we lived for a time, in such an area…my parents would load us up in the car, and drive us around to different neighborhoods…while driving, we would listen to AM radio’s Halloween shows-…the first time I heard “The Monkey’s Paw” was on just such a night… my parents would also talk about “The Shadow Knows” ….seemed really scary to me….great memories
AJMO
Non- private
I just realized the thing I dislike most in life- bias in journalism, propaganda & uge decisions being made because of it.
The role of a journalist is to report the facts sans spin. This day & age reporters don’t even realize they’re biased. The “unbiased fact pool” is already in a Gatorade bottle.
Thank you for being so objective.
That’s why I come here. TY TY
@Mom:
I’ve been tied up at work and just now got around to reading this. Again, solid work.
I want to devote adequate time to respond, so it may take me a few days this go-round. Nonetheless, as to the softball girls, I don’t think even the defense now contends they “exaggerated” or were wrong or lied or were anything other than accurate. The new line is Damien was “joking,” a hard line not to follow since he has admitted he “probably” said these things after he perjured himself and said he did not.
When I come back I will address some points about Carson, and then the softball girls, and finally why I think it was in fact the Echols cross-examination that sealed his fate.
I have enjoyed this very much, you are a very good advocate, and it would be wrong not to devote the proper time to your well-reasoned posts. I may have to do it in bites, due to my work load, but I will respond and try to do so adequately.
@Mom:
Again, it may be late next week before I can really devote the proper time to a response, and likely will do so in bites. I will start with the first part you posted because it will be the quickest for me to discuss.
You wrote:
“I agree with this Jack up until Carson did not embellish- How can we really know ….
as in the one statement it reads that Carson did include DE in on some of it-
also- JM and DE were never mentioned by MC, until he was asked directly about them by name- then he suddenly seems to recall JB threatening harm to JM-
“I also must point out we do not know how precise and unwavering MC may have been…afte rall his father’s statement was never taken asking about what MC told him initially-nor was the prosecuting attorneys statement taken, asking about what MC may have first conveyed, in the one or two times in which MC went to his “home” office…BTW I brought this fact up regarding the location, because I do find it very unprofessional and perhaps even sketchy for a prosecuting attorney to interview a witness in a triple homicide, at his home office and fail to utilize tapes or notes to document what was said…- also, What was said in the first phone calls ect? We will never know how consistent or how embellished MC statements were/became over each telling…”
We can never really “know” the precision of testimony and statements. All we can do is use objective criteria such as those you pointed out. Again, Michael Carson was fed questions to elicit obvious responses, which at a minimum is poor police procedure. These would have been an easy opportunity to embellish: did Carson discuss the other two killers? Did Carson discuss Echols in particular? He refused to take the bait and answered “no.” Someone prone to lie wouldn’t have hesitated to give more value to their story.
As to the home office, again this is so commonplace I can’t really question it.
You suggested, as I have seen others, that since Baldwin had no discernible motive it may have been to impress his father. Let us take that as fact. I don’t know. It is very unlikely his father would have been very impressed to learn that his son’s testimony varied from what his son told him initially, isn’t it? That doesn’t make sense to me.
Further, I seriously doubt any prosecutor would have elicited testimony from a witness that varied in detail and scope from what that witness told him or her. This not only would be grounds for disbarment but also a crime in and of itself. Yes, notes should have been taken and perhaps the statement recorded. I can tell you that often a witness will not give an initial statement if there is a tape recorder or video camera involved. The father’s statement indeed should have been memorialized.
So the bottom line is that logic, since we don’t have writings and recordings, tells me Carson’s testimony probably was consistent with what he told his father and the district attorney.
A threat to kick ass, incidetally, is common among even the frailest juvenile offenders. It gives them at least the pretense of toughness.
I can also tell you two people who sat through the trial with whom I have corresponded found Carson credible based on his demeanor and body language. One is a fence sitter now yet troubled by how to square that position with what he saw and heard including Carson’s testimony. Jurors are instructed they can take into account demeanor when they assess credibility of a witness, so it is likely these jurors had the same responses as the people I know who watched the trial.
The other parts will require more devotion of time and it wouldn’t be fair not to give it, Mom, as you have been so generous with yours. Some will require links unlike the above, which admittedly is opinion in large part.
@Mom:
Sorry about so many transpositions of “Carson” and “Baldwin.” I know you can weed through my errors there to read my points, though.
This is a good example of why I shouldn’t rush.
Did I miss something? Will there be a part three in this series?
thanks.
Mom 3.0
You said:
“Being traumatized by the scene can only take LE so far- LE FAILED in EVERY aspect of this case- I’m sorry but its true- and if anyone is to blame for the Alford plea IT IS THEM.”
I have to take exception to this statement. Law Enforcement’s job is to PROSECUTE and CONVICT guilty parties…and they DID their job. They prosecuted AND secured convictions for the murderers of those little boys.
I’d agree that many things were sloppy. I’d agree that there are a number of unanswered questions. You can argue methods all day long…but the bottom line is that LE produced the result that the PUBLIC demands of them.
“If anyone is to blame for the Alford plea it is…” a gutless prosecutor who admitted he knew NOTHING about the case and a judge with political aspirations.
Word around town is that Misskelley was actually telling anyone who would listen that he couldn’t believe they were released after what they’d done to those boys. They say it took the threat of legal action to shut him up…revoking his probation. Now, who do you suppose benefits most by forcing Jessie to hush? Who had the “money” to threaten him with lawyers? I’m not nearly the conspiracy theorist that most folks seem to be.
BTW…Law Enforcement…especially Mike Allen…was anxious to get it retried and re-convicted. He couldn’t be more confident of a conviction.
(Let me also be careful here…but you assume too much of what you do not know. Be careful not to assume that the prosecution would have gone back with the exact same course and evidence they used all those years ago. Question it all at your own risk…but I heard just yesterday that the prosecution’s 2011 case will ultimately be presented (in some venue) and that there were still some “surprises” in store. I cannot be more specific without betraying confidences. I suspect Blink knows most of what I’ve heard.)
EVERY CITIZEN of Crittenden County was disenfranchised by the Alford Plea…Crittenden County, the site of the murders…but nobody wants to discuss that.
Also, you said:
“I totally disagree that reviewing the evidence and the trials and questioning whether or not justice was done “mocks the hell out of these little boys” ”
That’s not what I said, nor did I even infer that. Perhaps it was a mis-read on your part.
What I actually said was: “Justice has been un-done, and it mocks the HELL that those little boys went through. That seems to be lost on many who support the “3″.”
My point is NOT that it’s disrespectful to the boys to look at evidence. My point is that it mocks those children that their CONVICTED MURDERERS are walking free. Convicted murderers, I might add, who, regardless of perspective, admitted guilt before they walked…joining OJ Simpson & Robert Blake, evidently looking for the “real” murderers (in New Zealand, in Baldwin & Echols’ cases).
At this point, I suppose it just doesn’t matter any more. You’re not going to convince me that Echols, Baldwin, and Misskelley didn’t do it, no matter how you break down a piece of evidence or testimony. I’m also not going to convince you of anything, despite having talked to a number of these people face to face.
I cannot say more than I have because I refuse to betray confidences…I’ve read and re-read what I’ve posted, making sure I don’t say something I shouldn’t…but there is a side of this story that is NOT being told yet. I can only hope that at some point, these people who have endured so much, will be vindicated.
Carry on…but I’m disappearing again. Further discussions on my part are fruitless.
I have absolutely heard the same about Miskelley continuing to confess, and moreover, have heard it directly from a source who had the sense to “memorialize it” shall we say-
I will never fault a person who has examined the evidence to date, and with reasonable and responsible wit, came to a conclusion they are stuck on the fence as to innocence or guilt. It was all I asked for of anyone.
What I simply will never get over, is the shoddy-ass job Ellington did for the whole 3 minutes he had this case like it was some sort of crumbled notepaper in an 18 year old jacket he could no longer wear.
He was out-lawyered, and he was afraid to lose and not for one second did he contemplate the effect it would have on the boys families. I will be forever changed by this case and that baffoon was tweeting about his dinner when these people were throwing up theirs
B
19. Julio says:
November 9, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Word around town is that Misskelley was actually telling anyone who would listen that he couldn’t believe they were released after what they’d done to those boys. They say it took the threat of legal action to shut him up…revoking his probation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Julio, what exactly would be the legal basis for revoking his probation?
Grace,
I’m not sure there actually WAS a concrete legal basis. The threat was still made.
My understanding is that it wouldn’t take much for him to violate probation. Association with known criminals is hard to avoid in JM’s circles (even among family). Drugs (specifically weed) are a part of that culture. It doesn’t seem that a violation would be difficult to prove, were someone motivated enough.
Blink,
Thanks for the validation. I desperately hope all of the stories are told someday.
I don’t begrudge Mom, or anyone else, for having a differing opinion. It’s just become evident that we are, and likely will remain, on different sides of this. No hard feelings from my perspective…just time to move on to some other battle.
God bless.
You are welcome to any of our battles and I appreciate you acknowledging respect for difference of opinion.
God Bless back
B
Re Julio says:
November 9, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Hello Julio- I appreciate your response- Although I must say- your disappearing again- makes it hard to carry on a meaningful conversation- I hope you will rethink your departure. I am sure others love to read your perspectives as well- Julio I am not on a side of this- i have no battle to fight – I am on the same side as you- Stevie, MiKe and Chriss side- I battle for the truth to be known as well- I battle for justice same as you do- I just can not see this evidence that you claim shows these 3 did it beyond a reasonable doubt…
(@ you ** my responses)
**Being traumatized by the scene can only take LE so far- LE FAILED in EVERY aspect of this case- I’m sorry but its true- and if anyone is to blame for the Alford plea IT IS THEM.”
@I have to take exception to this statement. Law Enforcement’s job is to PROSECUTE and CONVICT guilty parties…and they DID their job. They prosecuted AND secured convictions for the murderers of those little boys.
**Excuse me Julio but LE’s job is not to prosecute and convict guilty parties.
Snipped from http://www.ehow.com/about_6698594_law-enforcement-investigator_s-job-description.html
LE’s job is to protect and serve “to-investigate crimes against people, and the theft and vandalism of property, with the desire to solve or prevent crimes.” to follow protocols-and procedures ALL of them ALL the time- NO MATTER the heinous nature of the crime
LEs job is to document everything including the most minuscule detail-
LE’s job is to to gather evidence- and secure all evidence
ALL evidence no matter their own thoughts or theories.
LEO job is “ to conduct a preliminary investigation before delivering a summary of the facts to the detectives. The detectives, interviews witnesses, victims and suspected offenders. The investigator directs the collection of physical and forensic evidence at the scene of the crime. The investigator presents the results of his investigation to the District Attorney’s or the U.S. Attorney’s office for prosecution if enough evidence is gathered to make an arrest.”
LES job is to ensure that they have interviewed every witness and potential witness- and painstakingly- verified every last detail and claim–verify with facts and others statements and photos and copious notes.
LE’s job is to eliminate every avenue, every potential suspect -anyone and everyone.. To Interview everyone starting with the parents and family members ect ect
Was this done in this case? NTMK
We know The families were not painstakingly interviewed- We know many witnesses were not interviewed or not interviewed properly.
We know Mr. Hobbs was not interviewed until MUCH later.
We know at first, the parents pleas for help- fell on deaf ears.
Mr. Byers practically had to beg for LE’s help when the boys first turned up missing.
We know LE never interviewed the little girl that claimed that DE threatened bodily harm..
And what of the other parents of the SBG? Were they interviewed?
LE allowed SJ and JD to drive much of the initial investigation- We know That cult guy, was called in to consult on DE a YEAR prior to the murders….
LE lied on the stand about the collection of evidence (the bags)
Evidence was lost or never obtained or contaminated ect
Where are the candles of DE?
Where is the missing clothing?
What was the 3rd little boy wearing? We know MM was wearing the CS shirt- and we know he had a star and a hat and he was wearing Blue pants(I assume jeans)- The polka dot shirt and other jeans wear worn by another little victim…what of the 3rd boys clothes?
Where are the photos? Ridge is in the water pulling out what looks to be red shorts and possible a white/red top…who was wearing this? According to many witnesses that claimed to see the boys in the hours before the murders- the clothing differs from what the parents last remember and what was found in the ditch with the boys…Why?
Who was wearing what?
What of the water being drained ? Could the draining of the creek into the nearby larger “creek” be the answer to the missing socks and underwear? Could it have been mistakenly sucked up and released into the bayou with countless other pieces of evidence?
Speaking of evidence missing… what of that candle wax on the shirt? Where is it? Which shirt? Where is the testing?
BTW what of the piece of black cloth like material little MM was holding? What became of that little piece of evidence?
What of the Bojangles blood scrapings ect?
What of the ice ax and all the rest?
–
@I’d agree that many things were sloppy. I’d agree that there are a number of unanswered questions
**I am happy to know that you are willing to acknowledge LE’s handling was ”sloppy” and I am quite relieved to know that you too think there are a # of unanswered questions…..
—
@You can argue methods all day long…but the bottom line is that LE produced the result that the PUBLIC demands of them.
**Julio, without proper procedures and proper handling and all the rest— NO ONE can be certain that LE did right by these little victims or their families…..
Just for a second, think what if at one point in time one of these 3 men were granted an appeal or a new trial- How could the prosecution go forth and present a winning case to ensure these guilty men were held to their full sentences if NO ONE can follow the evidence toward guilt?
The luminol evidence was questionable
The urine evidence was never established- never tested- and the stomach contents are LOST
The ice ax was never tested for wounds comparison – and it is LOST
The Fiber evidence is HIGHLY subjective any # people could have owned such “microscopically similar “ items –these items were not owned directly by DE or JB or JM – they were found in their home ect ect
—
@“If anyone is to blame for the Alford plea it is…” a gutless prosecutor who admitted he knew NOTHING about the case and a judge with political aspirations.
**Please correct me if I am wrong but MANY people in this case had many dreams and aspirations and wasnt the prosecution there and in on this deal? They could have stood up and said “NO” this is wrong,- this isnt in the best interests of the victims and their families or the towns people- Why didnt they do this?
Cont part 2
AJMO
Cont part 2
@ you ** me
–
@Word around town is that Misskelley was actually telling anyone who would listen that he couldn’t believe they were released after what they’d done to those boys.
**Thats sad Julio, really sad- Have we learned nothing? “The talk around Town”??? That seems to be what first started this avalanche coming down the mountain- you know, the one that 18 years later we cant be sure if it didnt snowball out of control and encourage wrong facts and remembrances based on fear and rumor… like with witnesses such as Carson and Narlene and her family and yes.. possibly even with the little soft ball girls…
Seems to me that the “talk around town” implicated many innocent people, they cant all be guilty right?
–
@They say it took the threat of legal action to shut him up…revoking his probation.
**WOW-
They say…who says? Who would have revoked his probation? And why? If anyone asked Miskelly to remain silent- I would think it would be those that love him and know him, like his loving Father,- who I would assume would want to prevent another false confession- afterall that is what his father believes happened,and KIM many people who falsely confess start to actually believe themselves guilty as NLOTF showed us with her links…
BTW what makes anyone think that Misskelly would stop “confessing” He is PRONE to confessing- he loves to confess- He also loves to implicate people in his confessions- His saying so and so did it or this and that-it doesnt make it so- any more than his saying the little victims were raped and frolicking with JB and DE in that filthy creek makes it so- nor does his saying that DE’s doppelganger and some girls along with JB and DE had orgies in the woods and boiled and ate dogs makes it a reality
BTW it is not hard to imagine the ease with which one or more of these three would violate their probation – it happens frequently to people who emerge from incarceration- this fact has little to nothing to do with their guilt IRT the crime they were sentenced for…
–
@ Now, who do you suppose benefits most by forcing Jessie to hush? Who had the “money” to threaten him with lawyers? I’m not nearly the conspiracy theorist that most folks seem to be
**Julio- You know, Im sorry, but to me, all this is a bunch of unsubstantiated rumor mongering- and I must say that Blink does not usually allow this here- so I must assume that she knows this to be a fact- otherwise it is just gossip and innuendo with no merit. So, all I can do is sleuth out what you are trying to say… Are you saying the Hobbit guy is paying off Misskelly to keep quiet or else? Really?
Wow…
__
@
BTW…Law Enforcement…especially Mike Allen…was anxious to get it retried and re-convicted. He couldn’t be more confident of a conviction.
**Julio you say you just happen to know some of the players and are friends with one of the SBG- but you dont really discuss this case with them…well I must say, you sure do know alot…or claim to know alot- again Blink usually does not allow this type of baseless “inside” info to go unchecked- unless it can be backed up with facts and links ect…I will have to assume that Blink has verified this-
So I will simply say:
GOOD Julio- if these three are guilty, if they murdered these three defenseless eight year old playmates, they deserve to have the harshest of judgments and punishments, and I hope MA is on the case and set up for a new trial.
But I must ask…if Mike Allen was so gungho to go to trial, and if he was so sure that he would get ANOTHER conviction why DIDNT HE?
FTLOG- if this is true- then Mike Allen is the one you and the other towns people (the ones who are talking the talk) should be up in arms against- HE allowed this Alford plea to go through- despite being confident of a conviction in a retrial !! I am appalled that he would not present the evidence to the public BEFORE this Alford plea was reached – a plea that had the full cooperation of the prosecution and at least 2 of the victims loved ones….
Why wouldn’t Mike Allen call Mr Byers and P Hobbs and whomever else, and present this foolproof evidence to these grieving loved ones so that they could undoubtedly know the killers are caught and should remain in prison?!?- Afterall they were questioning publically, the verdict and LE and wondering if they caught the right murderers of their little Boys… Dont they deserve to know the complete truth? Dont they deserve to know this evidence that MA has that guarantees guilt and a conviction?
–
@(Let me also be careful here…but you assume too much of what you do not know.
**Julio, please dont talk to me like I am an idiot, I am not assuming anything in this case- I am trying very hard to educate myself to all of the evidence and facts ect- I am not jumping to any conclusions. I am researching and I am reading everything on Callahans and here at Blinks ect- I realize I cant possibly know everything- but excuse me for saying this— but Neither can you-
–
@ Be careful not to assume that the prosecution would have gone back with the exact same course and evidence they used all those years ago.
**I would never assume this Julio- if it is as you hinted- an iron clad case- with surprising evidence… then the prosecution most certainly was not going to present the same case… they could not go to retrial with the “evidence” they presented the first time around and hope to convict beyond a reasonable doubt…-
Much of the evidence they did have is now lost- & there is NO way they would go with ritualistic satanic cult murders perpetrated on the full moon ect-the evidence they did/do have doesnt support this or the lake knife ect…
–
Question it all at your own risk…
**At my own risk? What are talking about Julio? I am just trying to help get to the truth of what happened to 3 innocent little murder victims- I am trying to separate the facts from the fallacies and the evidence from the innuendo.
–We know the three little victims were not human sacrifices to Satan.
We know they were not raped
We know the lake knife wasnt used to kill them
So what is the truth Julio? Please,- Help me get to the truth because as far as i can see- the prosecution sure did not present the truth the first time around…
—
@ but I heard just yesterday that the prosecution’s 2011 case will ultimately be presented (in some venue) and that there were still some “surprises” in store.
**Again- Please, stop “hinting” toward inside knowledge- this is not a game.- I am not playing “Clue”
If there is going to be a civil suit just say it- afterall- it wouldnt be the first time a family member went after the accused in civil court—
This is often the only way some can get justice-
Those such as The Goldmans and The Brown Families-
I welcome Justice Julio- let the truth be presented in court- let the evidence speak for itself- Let the little victims be heard.
–
@ I cannot be more specific without betraying confidences. I suspect Blink knows most of what I’ve heard.)
**I dont expect you to betray confidences Julio- but it seems to me, you have already said you are friends with one of the SBG, so if a one time witness knows this “surprising” news- I would think others are aware of it- you are– so I would think perhaps the whole town knows it- and therefore it isnt really a secret is it?
@ EVERY CITIZEN of Crittenden County was disenfranchised by the Alford Plea…Crittenden County, the site of the murders…but nobody wants to discuss that.
**Respectfully, I’d be more than happy to discuss it with you Julio- but any discussion we would have- surely must include evidence and facts, not just feelings and fears and rumors
__
@ Also, you said:
“I totally disagree that reviewing the evidence and the trials and questioning whether or not justice was done “mocks the hell out of these little boys” ”
That’s not what I said, nor did I even infer that. Perhaps it was a mis-read on your part.
**Youre right Julio, I did misread that statement, my apologies
@ What I actually said was: “Justice has been un-done, and it mocks the HELL that those little boys went through. That seems to be lost on many who support the “3″.”
**Again, Julio my point is- how can you be so sure that justice was undone? Just because you are friends with a witness who heard DE say something 18 years ago, does not mean that what she heard was a real confession- there is reasonable doubt on this Julio – and that is in no way a slight to your friends credibility- it was an overheard conversation which surely is open to misinterpretations, right? Thats my point Julio.
–
@
My point is NOT that it’s disrespectful to the boys to look at evidence. My point is that it mocks those children that their CONVICTED MURDERERS are walking free. Convicted murderers, I might add, who, regardless of perspective, admitted guilt before they walked…joining OJ Simpson & Robert Blake, evidently looking for the “real” murderers (in New Zealand, in Baldwin & Echols’ cases).
**I agree that the convicted murders walked Julio-I am only asking if we can be sure that the right 3 were initially convicted? Because, again, from everything I have been able to read, I can not get to definite guilt without reasonable doubt-Although I am waiting for Blinks new piece and I AM RESEARCHING- still, right now, I cant get there-
–
@ At this point, I suppose it just doesn’t matter any more. You’re not going to convince me that Echols, Baldwin, and Misskelley didn’t do it, no matter how you break down a piece of evidence or testimony. I’m also not going to convince you of anything, despite having talked to a number of these people face to face.
**Julio, ofcourse it still matters- 3 little boys were murdered and no matter our thoughts on who the killers are- whether it is a belief that JB and DE and JM did it- or some unknown killer/s did… the conclusion is the same- a killer/s walk among us- and that is not justice-
I am not trying to convince you or anyone that these 3 didnt do it- I am trying to follow the evidence and the testimony and conclude quilt- I am asking questions hoping for answers… I want to be sure these 3 are guilty -these three little boys deserve to have the truth known-
I am questioning LE and the jury and the prosecution and the defenses handling in this case- not to show any disrespect for law enforcement or to the justice system.. BUT inorder to prevent the same mistakes from happening again— Which if left unchecked, will surely lead to more killers walking free amongst us- preying on our babies as they innocently play unaware of the danger.
That is unacceptable to me Julio.
@ I cannot say more than I have because I refuse to betray confidences…I’ve read and re-read what I’ve posted, making sure I don’t say something I shouldn’t…but there is a side of this story that is NOT being told yet. I can only hope that at some point, these people who have endured so much, will be vindicated.
Carry on…but I’m disappearing again. Further discussions on my part are fruitless.
**Julio- again that is bogus to disappear again- Stay- why disappear?- I do not feel that our conversations are fruitless- We want the same things- we want the killers off the streets and our children and towns to be safe…. if no one is willing to tell “that” side of the story, then how can the truth be known?
If the truth is not know how can we prevent another tragedy? If not now, then when? After another 18 years? After another little innocent is murdered? When?
Serve and Protect- that is LE’s duty and it is our duty as parents, and as concerned citizens.
Respectfully submitted-
Jack- thanks for the response- I will wait to read your complete thoughts before responding- hope you will return when time allows.
PS All My previous post “part 2″ should have included AJMO- same as always-
Thanks.
Julio says:
November 9, 2011 at 4:10 pm
“Convicted murderers, I might add, who, regardless of perspective, admitted guilt before they walked.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Julio, an Alford plea is not an admission of guilt.
Also, I respectfully disagree that JM, DE, and JB “walked.” They may have ‘walked out’ of the front door of the courthouse at the culmination of the proceedings, but not before they were sentenced to time served, plus a ten year suspended sentence. My understanding is if they violate the conditions of their suspended sentences, they can receive sentences of up to 21 years.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Julio says, “You can argue methods all day long…but the bottom line is that LE produced the result that the PUBLIC demands of them.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Julio, I think the public wants the truth. If the wrong individuals are convicted of a crime, wouldn’t you agree that justice is not served?
When crimes occur it is LE’s duty to thoroughly investigate, meticulously collect AND preserve evidence, and interview witnesses. A good investigator will follow where the evidence leads, and try to tie up any loose ends as best as s/he can. If they are sloppy and/or make too many missteps, it can forever taint their case.
I will address more of the issues you have raised when I have more time.
@Mom:
I hope to be able to post at least a bite this weekend. This has been the roughest two weeks in my practice in almost three years. Nothing bad, just hard work for hours on end.
But you have not been forgotten, and my apologies for the tardy responses.
@Grace:
The admissions, from what I understand, wouldn’t be a basis for revocation. What reportedly was threatened was to keep a close eye on any potential criminal infraction if Misskelley didn’t shut up. Threats against witnesses and people who could harm the profitability of the supporter/entertainment complex hardly are rare in this case.
Does anyone know if JM is still living in WM? I thought he was going to leave the area.
Is there ever gonna be a Part 3?
O Lucy, yes, I hope.
B
Private
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink, are legalities holding up part 3? I hope not. Looking forward to reading more of your research on the case.
Not directly, but in play.
B
Thanks for replying, Blink.
Mom3.0
Your question about the possibility of pumping out the creek discharged the underwear and sox of the boys into the bayou/drainage ditch.
I have no direct knowledge of the type of pump used to drain the creek, so this is just a general thing about pumps of that type. In fact, there may have been more than one pump in use.
The common term for pumps of the type used is “bell hole”. That term comes from the fact that in order to totally drain an area, a hole is dug at the low point in the shape of a bowel or bell. The suction line is inserted into that area. Most pumps have a suction strainer installed to protect the pump from hard objects such as rocks and metal. This would stop any clothing from being sucked into the pump as well.
Someone had to clean up the area. The underware and sox could have been put in a pocket and dumped in the trash at another location.
@Grace,….Yes, as far as I know JM is still living the WM area.
In Marion, I believe.
Blink- did you get my last post?
It may have gotten lost it contained links TIA
I have nothing for you except this and the subsequent one- and links withing the post should not be a problem as I changed settings some time ago- sorry
B
Blink -It wont post….I am not seeing it in moderation…Help please
should I take out the links and post them separately?
The post was in response to TGFs and only contained 3 links to Callahans…
Thanks Blink= Ill try again-
Hello TGF- thank you very much for stepping in to share your knowledge I found the pics of the scene which show this draining of the ditch-
I was hoping you could view them and then share more of your thoughts.
Unfortunately they may not help much…. from what I can tell- there doesnt seem to be a hole dug- just a sand bagging of the ditch…
go to
http://callahan.8k.com/photos.html
then click on photos then click the 2nd link
Click on pic 78
79 and 73
Thanks TGF and I look forward to your thoughts.
AJMO
Jack- sorry about working so hard- no rush take your time.
Grace- FWIW I also think Jesse is still in the area-
xara good to see you you too Lucy-
hooray it posted- – Just to clarify- you click on the second link labeled crime scene photos then click on 78 79 and 73
@Mom 3.0:
The first very tardy and bite.
You wrote:
**This is a very interesting point Jack- and I would tend to agree that most jail house confessions would occur in similar circumstances- BUT we are talking about two sixteen year old males -I find it HIGHLY doubtful that JB would confess to such graphic details involving the genitalia of his victims to another inmate that is supposedly watching over him …NO 16 year old kid is gonna admit to a grotesque version of fellatio which also includes a blood fetish all while using the word “penis” …
My response:
The part where I agree with you is the use of “penis” instead of “dick,” “cock,” and so forth. It seems contrived, and likely is regugitation of the term police wanted used.
Where I do not agree, and this is based on work within the juvenile criminal justice system more years ago than I care to recall, is whether a sixteen year old male offender would admit such an act. This is anecdotal, of course, but I encountered many boasts about graphic violence including some with homoerotic overtones. I can’t agree with you here, based on personal experience, although if someone hasn’t been exposed to it this would seem unlikely.
You wrote:
**As to JB planning to kick JM’s ass- NO WAY- even Carson says HE had to protect JB in jail- JB got in one fight in his life TMK, and he got his butt whopped- bloody nose and all- JB was a scrawny little thing—JM was a scrapper he wrestled- NO WAY JB would have went after JM to kick his butt.
My response:
The same as my first response. Remember, Misskelley was not in this facility. It was therefore an idle threat, and again, based on personal experience this is hardly uncommon particularly among vulnerable juvenile offenders. This is the easiest part of the MC statement for me to believe.
Now with that bite, back to the salt mines and I do hope to get to this in the next week.
Mom3.0
I didn’t intend to take so long to get at your question of the 12th.
I have been on some of the other threads and chasing batteries for both of my UPS units. We live in the country where voltages are not stable so I run all my electronics off of UPS units. Both batteries died on friday.
In photo 78
This is the initial hook up of the small bell hole pump. It has a 3″ suction line. The photo does not show the end of the line so the suction screen is not visible. The creek has been damed with sandbags to control the flow.
In photo 79
The pump is in operation. The dam appears to be about 24″ to 28″ high. The discharge line cannot be seen, but I would suspect that it is placed over the bank and the water is removed completely from the creek bed.
Photo 73
This is another photo of the pump in operation. Some of the information indicated that the creek was holding two feet of water. Based on these photos, I think more like 16″ to 18″ would be the case.
I do not see anything like a shovel to dig a hole in the creek bed. These guys do not seem to be all that familiar with the operation of a pump of this type. There is no need for someone to stand and hold the suction line as is being done. Maybe the guy thought it was necessary.
I am very familar with this type of equipment. The next time Blink travels the 202 into or out of Lambertsville she can see some natural gas piping at the intersection of 605 that I worked on about 55 years ago.
These boys were very small for their age. I was several inches taller than any of them when I was in first grade. Even if JB and DE were small themselves, the difference in size compared to the victims would be significant.
TGF thank you very much for your response and for walking me through your observations.
I was able to find an excerpt from a hearing in which there is talk of the draining of the ditch.
The whole post (whole page really) is very informative but I caution those that do not want to know graphic details when clicking on the link. (Post # 75)
http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/7651/Updates–Hearings-News-articles-links–notes–court?page=4
Snipped:
The ditch was drained and sand bagged toward the Ten Mile Bayou. The water was pumped out with screens on the pump [and Allen said in the ditch] to trap any other type of evidence. There was nothing in the screens or aquatic life trapped. State’s Exhibit 20 and 25 was identified as a photo of the bottom of the ditch after the water was pumped out. It was then searched for evidence, but nothing was found. Allen testified that he did not notice any aquatic life. He did not notice minnows or tadpoles. He said they were in the woods until about seven or eight. Allen said he did not notice any mosquitoes. Weather wise, he said it was mild and hadn’t rained. Next, was State’s Exhibit 22, a photo of Ten Mile Bayou at the top of the ditch where water had been pumped and the area sand bagged. Next, State’s Exhibit 24, was a photo of Ridge at the top by the sand bags. Water was shown flowing toward him. Exhibit 27 was a photo of the pipe bridge coming from between the woods and the interstate from a southerly direction. Allen was asked if all photos were an accurate depiction of the area as he had known it, and he said they were.
and:
Allen had mentioned in his testimony that no civilians or others had been in the woods, but the video showed several. ( Ridge) was asked about this as well as the setting up of the pump to drain the ditch. He said it took a while to start and it didn’t operate optimally for a bit.
Philipsborn asked about Ridge and hunting. Ridge said that when he hunted, he normally went alone and there was usually as little noise as possible. Philipsborn asked if all the noise in the area, the people, etc. could have scared anything away that was there, and Ridge said it was possible. Philipsborn also asked if Ridge had kept in touch with the Arkansas Crime Lab and he said on occasion. He was asked if he was made aware by the lab that an animal hair slide was part of evidence. He said he was not.
ajmo
jack thanks for another post- I am looking forward to more when you can-
_ To those that are still reading, and I guess, mostly for myself ….
I have been continuing my research inorder to try to get to the truth-
It has been said that there were no turtles in the ditch or in the area. It has been said that no one saw any wild life in the area. Tadpoles- frogs-crawdads -water spiders-Mudpuppies-sucker fish – carp
ect ect
In reading the previous post Both LEO stated they did not find any signs of wildlife in the screens-
Tadpoles would burrow in the mud or swim away from the area same as the otherers… Ridge was said to move through the ditch up to his neck where it meets the bayou-this would have scared the wildlife away, I think-
But tadpoles-they hide – and did you know that Tadpoles can smell food ? Inorder to catch them many people use pieces of lunch meat. The baby frogs will generally converge on it in mass.
Mudpuppies feed on crayfish, insect larvae, fish eggs, small fish, worms, snails, and even other amphibians.
As for the turtles- Mr. Byers has stated that his son and his friends would often catch turtles in that area-
I also found this article from may 7th that quotes a boy saying much the same thing:
snipped:
Vaughn, like most other parents there, said she was shocked to learn the dangers of the bayou go beyond sinkholes and snakes.
“I think they ought to take it all down,” Vaughn said. “That’s a dangerous place. Those kids can’t stop going back there.”
“I play back there all the time,” said Chris Husband, 14, who said he sometimes played there with Christopher Byers. “There’s ramps, bike trails,
hills; it’s fun back there. We catch turtles and snakes and stuff.”
But he said he and his friends also have found hypodermic needles in the area, as well as a 22 rifle and “a pistol that was all messed up.”
Bo Hamrick, 21, said scores of people helped look for the missing children Thursday.
He and his friend Tony Smith, 22, rode all-terrain vehicles throughout the area for about eight hours – even stopping in the early morning near the pool where the boys were found.
“It was kind of a let-down to know we were so close and couldn’t see them,” Hamrick said. “Maybe we could’ve done something.”
http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/2714/CA5-7-93-Playground-Irresistible-to-Kids-Now-Holds-Grief
–my point in this is that just because the detectives didnt note wild life in the area does not mean that there wasnt-
More research to add later…
My cont prayers for Chris Mike and Stevie, for their families, and for the town
AJMO
@ Mom3.0~
Just wanted to let you know that I am still here. I check in often,
and always enjoy reading your posts.
@Xara, thanks for answering my question about JM. I know he’s out there somewhere, but I just hope he’s not stirring up any trouble for himself.
@Mom3.0, love your work! Please keep it coming and I will keep on reading. I have been reviewing some post-conviction writs lately, and have found some pretty interesting things there….amazing what one can come up with in the way of witnesses when you have talented, intelligent attorneys leading the way. I also recently watched the two Paradise Lost films….what an education, but not what I expected at all. DE preening before a mirror like a little girl…Brent Davis’ nervous lack of confidence regarding getting a conviction in the JB/DE case…JB looking so tiny and insignificant…etc. Will write more later.
Mom3.0
Tadpoles are not frightened by humans. They will usually be found in a large group. They are the prey for fish and nature provides them with the tools to survive. I have been in a pond many times with tadpoles of all sizes.
Small fish and tadpoles would be most likely found in the creek, not in the bayou/ditch.
This whole area was a playground for a lot of people. I would not be suprised at what would have been found if it were to be picked clean. You mention the old weapons found. Boys like to play with old tools and weapons (guns and knives). Most of the weapons would be non- functioning.
Hi Grace
The films are not what you expected. Most films of the so called documentary type contain some strange scenes that do not make sense. This is usually the fault of the producer(s) trying to make a particular point. Sometimes they suceed, but mostly they fail.
@ Julio. You offer a very valuable perspective from a local, thank you.
Keep in mind on Blink’s cases, some share research with all to move us along. some share information to advance everyone’s understanding. some share opinion. some share analysis based on court transcripts, media transcripts, or extrapolating from their personal profession. Others like tit for tat discussion to stimulate thinking. You can chose any of the above approaches or roles in posting and be fruitful here in order to advance the interests of justice and your local friends.
@Julio. I was also patiently checking in for Pt III. The most poignant thing you initially posted, the reminder we all need, is the “constant fear” experienced by some since the 3 were released: the victim’s families & the witnesses. Little attention was given to specific threats to public safety in WM3′ release. Those forward looking real fears of real people trumps rear-facing fact analysis.
Still researching-
Thank you xara and grace for letting me know you are still out there-I am glad.
TGF- I agree that tadpoles usually are in a group and are somewhat easy to catch- But they do quickly swim off when scared & given the chance, and as I said, they hide in the mud too….
Ridge and Allen and ? were in that water- splashing and Ridge was moving down walking towards the bayou searching “the bottom” and sides with his hands-it is highly likely that he/they scared away all of the wild/aquatic life in the ditch- also who placed the sand bags/ and dont forget many LEO and searchers were through those woods – some on ATvs, which would scare away many things-
My question would be – How big were the screens that were used for the pumps? Ridge said at first the pump was not operating correctly did something get stuck? Exactly what were the measurements of the openings of the screens? could tadpoles get sucked thru- could frogs could snakes ect? IDK
And what of the usual nocturnal animals? Those such as Raccoons?
Well anyone that has ever lived in such an area knows without a doubt that raccoons would frequent such places those woods would be an ideal habitat. woods near water sources–
My next post deals with my research on raccoons- why am I doing this research? Is it because I believe without reservation the defense when they claim animal predation? No- especially the claims of turtles? NO
It is because I want to rule out animal predation-
Will that go to show these 3 little boys werent murdered? NO
Will it go to show DE JB and JM didnt commit the murders? NO
My theory
It could perhaps in fact prove out what so many think…these little victims were killed in such a way to humiliate and denigrate them-
They were stripped and tied and beaten and left for dead
perhaps The blows to the head were what was done to them by their killers…
Perhaps animal predidation can help to figure out the sequencing of events…it may show Chris was attacked first- why? because he died partially due to blood loss- possibly not from his genital wounds but from the head blows- no defensive wounds on hands… perhaps Stevie was next he had some defensive wounds and died from beating/drowning- and last, little Mike who had defensive wounds but was found further down in the ditch and did not show “overkill” but died from beating/drowning- also -according to the autopsy his little eyes had not clouded over in death- yet the others had… which could show that he was not dead as long as the other two… is that a definite sign?- no- it differs…
Thoughts/questions- Chris had no defensive hand wounds- correct?
Stevie had some, but Mike’s were more severe correct?
well this would seem to point to Chris either being tied, then beaten- or to his being the first victim to be incapacitated- then tied, then left to bleed. ..Stevie’s hand wounds and Mikes hand wounds would tend to point to them not being tied at the time- they were all tied hands to feet- therefore how could they have defended themselves? Did their feet also have defensive wounds?
I have not seen the pictures nor have I seen a diagram showing the wounds- so I can not answer these questions…
More research to follow-
AJMO
I need to help you on the COD stats, wound positioning and classifications and animal predation info, and that is my fault, as I plan on interpreting that in #3, should I live that long.
As usual, to your credit, you ask for it. I so appreciate you, Julio, and Grace and forgive me if I missed anyone and the fact that I can get torn in different directions and come back here to see compassion, and advocacy.
B
God bless your tenacity Mom3.0. What would we do without your determination to keep digging?
Love and hugs, sweet friendy~~
Mom3.0
The screen on the pump suction should be very fine so that it would not allow critters like small fish, tadpoles and others to be sucked into the pump. They could be sucked up against the screen and held there until removed by a person or because the pump was shut down.
If you look at the picture of the pump where the tall skinny black guy was still attaching the pump suction line to the pump, you can see that the suction line is already submersed in the creek in front of the sandbags. The suction line and the pump have to be primed before it can take the full amount of the line size. They were learning about the pump as they had to learn about so many things in the investigation of this case.
There may have been screen placed in front of the sandgags to catch small objects floating in the water as it moved downstream towards the pump suction and the dam. However, it is not visible in the photo.
My experience with wildlife tell me that animals did not disturb the bodies in any way. That was a defense move to cover the damage to the boys by whatever the instrument (the ice axe) was used to create the terrible head blows that produced the fatal cranial injuries.
The help would be appreciated Blink- as I am only interpreting what information I can find– what is out there now- which entails sifting through lots of arguing and name calling and posts that seem to go no where fast- which seem to trail off without addressing the questions ect- sadly they drift back into name-calling and the like- in other words its tough going…I am patiently waiting for your part 3….I have no doubt after reading it, I will find most of my research is futile but- until then its all I can do…
Stevie, Chris and Mike have touched my heart- I am haunted by what happened to them… and I all I can do for them, is to not give up my research….and to keep posting my thoughts…. hoping against hope that an “aha” moment will present itself-
Thanks for allowing me to post my thoughts and research Blink- I appreciate it.
Heads up my next post will contain links…
AJMO
Ragdoll- Hello my friend so good to see you! Thank you for your encouragement and kindness.