The West Memphis Three HBO Paradise Lost Purgatory: Victims Parents Plea For No Oscar, Call Film Cruel Hoax
Beverly Hills, CA- Following an announcement that The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is considering the HBO documentary Paradise Lost III : Purgatory, as one of 15 submissions being considered for an Oscar in the documentary category branch of AMPAS, chaired by Rob Epstein- Todd and Diana Moore took action.
The Moores are the parents of James Michael Moore, one of three eight your old victims murdered on May 3, 1993 along with Chris Byers and Stevie Branch. Within days of an exclusive series on the murders appearing on www.blinkoncrime.com which included the discovery of potential new evidence; the nearly 18 year old case that resulted in 9 previous convictions of three suspects took a radical turn.
On August 19th Jessie Misskelley, Damien Echols and Charles Jason Baldwin pled guilty to the murders of all 3 children via an Alford plea and were immediately released from jail as convicted murders on parole.
Paradise Lost III produced by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky follows it’s predecessors I and II, released in 1996 after the initial convictions of the West Memphis 3.
Berlinger is a member of AMPAS, and has produced several unreleased documentaries of Hollywood A- listers including Charlize Theron, Hugh Jackman, Oprah Winfrey and Cameron Diaz.
Click below to read impassioned and unedited letter sent to Chairman Epstein.
The following is the unedited letter sent to Chairman Epstein by Todd and Diana Moore:
TODD MOORE
DIANA MOORE
PO Box 721
2004 Main St.
Hughes, AR 72348
November 22, 2011
Chairman Robert P. Epstein
AMPAS
Awards Office
8949 Wilshire Blvd
Beverly Hills CA 90211
Re: Paradise Lost III: Purgatory
Dear Chairman Epstein and members of the Documentary Branch of the Academy:
We are Todd Moore and Dana Moore.
Our cherished eight-year-old son, Michael, was brutally murdered on May 5, 1993 by Jessie Misskelley, Damien Echols, and Jason Baldwin. Misskelley was tried and convicted in 1994. Baldwin and Echols were convicted by a separate jury later that year. All three entered Alford pleas to our son’s murder August 19, 2011. They are now, as they have been for the past 17 years, guilty as a matter of law. They have been guilty as a matter of fact since the moment water flooded Michael’s lungs after he was beaten, stripped, hogtied, and then discarded into a stream to drown.
Michael was the joy of our lives. In addition to our son, his murderers also tortured and slaughtered two other children, Christopher Byers and Stevie Branch. These three precious victims were classmates and friends, and their loss was a tragedy felt throughout the entire community.
We are horrified to learn that a documentary that glorifies Michael’s killers, Paradise Lost III: Purgatory, is among 15 documentaries being considered for an Academy Award. Because of public pressure that exploded due to gross misrepresentations of fact in two previous documentaries, Michael’s killers were unjustly able to enter into a plea agreement, were released from prison, and now pose additional threats to society. This third documentary further insulted the families of these three boys and may lead to further injustice. We implore the Academy not to reward our child’s killers and the directors who have profited from one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated under the guise of a “documentary film.”
We realize that documentaries have a point of view and advocate a position to some degree or another. As with the two before it, this film crossed the line into a cruel hoax that had real-life consequences larger than even those of us who still mourn our horrific losses. It is not art. This film is cynical and exploitative deception that compounds our pain needlessly and rewards those who inflicted it. It and the two films that preceded it are simply tasteless tabloid entertainment presented as social commentary.
We are private individuals. The directors, Bruce Sinofsky and Joe Berlinger, are aware of this because we refused to participate in their last two films. We appeared solely in the first film because the directors lied and told us their purpose would be to “protect children.” You can imagine our shock and disgust when the first film opened with gruesome and gratuitous images of the crime scene and remained exploitative and salacious until the credits rolled. It did nothing to promote child welfare. It did everything to support child killers and to benefit monetarily from a ghastly crime.
We were hardly the only people Sinofsky and Berlinger misled or manipulated.
Consider what happened to John Mark Byers. He was Christopher Byers’ adoptive father. Confrontations between Mr. Byers and Echols’ supporters at hearings were staged. Of course, Berlinger and Sinofsky were there to film these episodes. Berlinger and Sinofsky would transport Mr. Byers to the hearings and wire him for sound beforehand. Furthermore, Berlinger and Sinofsky maneuvered Mr. Byers and Echols’ supporters in order to film the anticipated confrontations. Later, after the cameras were packed away, Mr. Byers acted like a different person. Instead of being belligerent, he was affable. When asked about his change in demeanor, Mr. Byers stated that he was supposed to act that way when the cameras were present. Mr. Byers was quoted as saying he received $500 per hour for “exclusive interviews.”
These contrived “confrontations” and other distortions caused many viewers to believe Mark was the “real killer.” It had a terrible impact on his life. We brought this to the attention of HBO. Our complaint was ignored because these falsehoods proved lucrative.
The complete list of distortions would be a long one. The above example is illustrative of the manipulation and distortions that are prevalent throughout the entire Paradise Lost franchise. The films are bereft of ethics, principles, or factual accuracy and basis.
Publicity from the first two films did generate millions of dollars in donations. Much of that money went toward the defense’s investigation of the case. Not a single piece of exculpatory evidence was produced. In other words, between $10,000,000 and $20,000,000 has been collected, although no one knows the exact amount collected or how it was spent. In eighteen years, nothing was found to clear the names of the actual killers. Late last year, the windfall that went toward the legal defense resulted in the granting of an evidentiary hearing which was set to be held a few weeks from now. Instead, the murderers opted to initiate a plea negotiation with the State. As a result, they remain convicted of the deaths of three children.
We have to note that this situation is similar to the one that confronted the Academy when Capturing the Friedmans was nominated for Best Documentary Film of 2003. Two of the Friedmans’ sexual abuse victims presented another Open Letter to the Academy. Capturing the Friedmans had much more artistic merit and integrity than Paradise Lost III: Purgatory, yet it did not receive the award. The Academy made the right decision then, and we pray it does so this time as well.
Sincerely,
Todd Moore Diana Moore
cc: (via eMail)
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Part 6
The end
Hi Blink and all are you still with me?- Are you yelling Stop? I hope not
Blink wrote:
“For me, I get that folks can be undecided as to who caused the deaths, but I fail to see how anyone can review the autopsy reports and find any one of these boys died via or sustained major post mortem injury.”
I am undecided on a great many details Blink- but I appreciate all of your hard work and I appreciate everyone of your positions-
and I agree that each and every single one of them may be in fact the “truth”
But unfortunately I do not know if I will ever be able to see and know that truth for myself- or if I will forever be stuck as undecided. We shall see.
Blink wrote:
“Lastly- I got an email with personal pics at the Sundance premier with Damien, Mark Byers and Pam Hobbs embracing.
New suits, big smiles and dead babies. What a party.
Did I mention I hate this case? B”
Hey Blink Hate this case?, NO I despise this case- I despise what happened to those three beautiful trusting innocent adventurers. – The modern day “HucK & Tom & Huck” cut down in the prime of their childhoods- may they RIP
I saw just such a pic Blink- and I guess that is one of the good things about being undecided-I can view it in a way you can not- – so let me give you my perspective- it may help you
Regardless if DE murdered their children or not- they do not believe he did.
For Chris’ dad- I would think believing this now- is somehow easier because if he thinks the defense is correct- then his little boy did not suffer the horrors of castration at the hands of anyone -and I would think that gives him some peace-
Perhaps Stevies Momma also sees it much the same way- she has looked back and has began to second guess everything she thought she knew- and she must do what she feels is best to carry on
I wish only happiness and smiles for each and every one of the boys parents –may they have a million more moments of happiness with their sons looking down from Heaven- and may God watch over them always- They have all suffered enough.. one day they will meet again and then theyll know the complete truth- and I pray it gives them Peace.
AJMO
Thanks Blink
PS
matt glad to see you made it over to this thread-
Dy Hi-
Blink & all I cant get the other links to post- sorry
Mom3.0 says:
January 23, 2012 at 2:12 am
~~~~~
Okay, Mom3.0, now I’m really impressed with your ability to not only do excellent research but to reach appropriate conclusions outside your area of expertise. Death by drowning is indeed a diagnosis of exclusion, meaning if the decedent is found in water all other causes of death must be ruled out first.
I also agree with you that if it gives Mr. Byers even the slightest bit of peace to believe the emasculation was a result of post mortem animal predation, then so be it. I cannot even begin to imagine what each of these parents have gone through.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The only other thing I would add would be this: many have referred to the “animal predation theory.” In forensic pathology, this would not be presented as a theory, as much as it would be presented as a medical examiner’s expert opinion based on the examiner’s observations of the wounds/photos of the wounds, and on the expert’s experience/observation of similar animal predation wounds. Semantics, I know, but this is likely how this information would have been presented had new trials been granted. JMHO.
It should be noted that the medical examiners and the forensic odontologist came up with these opinions independent of one another.
Sorry, for any typos — I’m on my lunch break.
I also agree with you that if it gives Mr. Byers even the slightest bit of peace to believe the emasculation was a result of post mortem animal predation, then so be it. I cannot even begin to imagine what each of these parents have gone through.
I’m sorry but Byers is a piece of sh#t. He keeps selling his stepson’s soul to wherever the money train is going. He doesn’t care about any of the 3 children and is nothing but a lying scumbag.
“Mom 3.0 says:
January 23, 2012 at 2:58 am
Part 6
The end. . .”
_________________________
Mom 3.0:
Beautiful. Thank you. Regardless of all of our opinions and guesses, that certainly makes me feel a bit of quiet peace,
and I hope that it does this for Blink and everyone else.
also, Mom 3.0:
I have only just started to read your parts 1-6, but I do so hope that you are reminded by a previous poster here (can’t recall who) who tasked us all to clear our caches periodically.
Matt says:
January 23, 2012 at 3:50 pm
I also agree with you that if it gives Mr. Byers even the slightest bit of peace to believe the emasculation was a result of post mortem animal predation, then so be it. I cannot even begin to imagine what each of these parents have gone through.
I’m sorry but Byers is a piece of sh#t. He keeps selling his stepson’s soul to wherever the money train is going. He doesn’t care about any of the 3 children and is nothing but a lying scumbag.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matt, I am not a fan of Byers, and I know how prominently he figures into all of these documentaries, particularly the first two. But, I’m not about to judge him or any of the other parents of these three murdered children. Unless you live inside of Byers’ head how can you possibly know he didn’t love his stepson? Btw, speaking of the money train, it is definitely still chugging along. One could argue that ANYONE who earns money from speaking, videotaping, or writing about these three little victims is cashing in on this tragedy.
who ever said mr. Byers is a sell out could be right.
I’m not trying to say it in a offensive way but in a nicer way.
I am just wanting to get to the bottom of this.Those supporters are always throwing it i our face that Byers supports the wm3 and they think it makes the 3 innocent. I do believe money changed his mind indeed.
oops i meant i was NOT trying to say it in offensive way
Pam Hobbs asks for reopening of case.
“Please allow me to begin by thanking the everyone for their loving support and for all the effort they have done to see that justice is served for my son, Steve Branch, and his two best friends, Michael Moore and Christopher Byers. I would not be as strong as I seem without it.
I am content in my heart that Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Miskelley did not murder my son.
I had the opportunity to meet Damien Echols and Lorri Davis in Utah at the Sundance Festivial. To me they are truly amazing wonderful people with true love that overwhelms me.
The documentary film “West of Memphis” is the best coverage of this case that I have viewed, myself. I thank director Amy Berg along with producers Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh for the amazing job they did with West of Memphis.
I viewed crucial new DNA evidence in the doc that I am told has been given to the State of Arkansas and I am asking as the mother of Steve Branch and as a citizen of Arkansas that the State reopen this case and let justice prevail for my son Steve Branch, Michael Moore and Christopher Byers.”
http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2012/01/23/mother-of-west-memphis-3-victim-asks-for-reopening-of-case
Hello GraceintheHills,
It is so great to see you. I was worried that you had abandoned these threads. I am always glad to read your posts.
Thank you for acknowledging my research Grace- It means alot especially coming from you with your expertize and background.
Thank you for weighing in on the topic- and for doing it so intelligently & succinctly–
Ps grace, I appreciate your explaining the semantics between a theory and a experts opinion.- To me it is an important distinction. I am glad that you also reminded us that each of these experts arrived at their conclusions independent of all others- To me that is very important.
Ditto- regarding any victims families feelings.
Christy, hi thanks for your kindness. Much gratitude for stepping out of your comfort zone to listen with an open mind and heart- thanks for speaking up to share your thoughts on my “The End” I hope it gives others the same moment of quiet contemplation and peace.
Matt and Vicki, Hello, Thanks for sharing your thoughts I understand where you are coming from and why. Every “character” in this tragedy has its strengths and weaknesses- as well as certainly having major flaws and can easily be demonized or canonized depending upon the onlookers judgment.
Peace
AJMO
Marbor, So nice to see you thank you very much for sharing theat information with us.
Ps xara, I seem to have carelessly forgotten to say thanks for bringing that article over for us- always good to see you pop up here.
My prayers for little Mike, Steve and Chris and for each member of their families as well as for the community and all who have been forever touched by this tragedy.
AJMO
Pam Hobbs should hold no sway since she lied about Terry Hobbs and is after money now, just like Byers. I have no sympathy for her anymore. I know that might sound cold hearted but she is being pictured with her child’s killer for christ’s sake.
@ marbor says:
January 24, 2012 at 8:05 am
QUOTE
I had the opportunity to meet Damien Echols and Lorri Davis in Utah at the Sundance Festivial. To me they are truly amazing wonderful people with true love that overwhelms me. Pam Hobbs
UNQUOTE
I’ve heard Satan can be a charmer too. I can’t believe this woman is ‘content’ and supportive of these 3 ‘darlings’. This just sounds like a woman jumping on the money train.
How could ANYONE desert their child for these monsters? She should meet c word. Creature is so Miss Congeniality.
I think some people are born without ‘radar’.
*waving @ Mom3.0* Always great to see you friendy. I’m praying with you on bended knees!!!
@ Graceinthehills….
Love your posts. I know you get it and it helps my heart to see someone nail it with a 10 pound hammer. Blessings friendy~~~
Hello everyone Mom3 how are you doing?
Any news?
I meant Mom3.0
Ragdoll says:
January 24, 2012 at 6:23 pm
@ Graceinthehills….
Love your posts. I know you get it and it helps my heart to see someone nail it with a 10 pound hammer. Blessings friendy~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ragdoll, you just made my day! I have been in pain all day from a failed root canal and I just learned it will have to be re-done early next week. So, thank you my gracious and lovely ‘friendy’. I am sending you hugs and best wishes for you and your family in 2012! God bless.
But, I guess we’ll have to politely agree to disagree about Pam Hobbs’ recent appearance with DE and LE. Imo, she did not desert her child. He was stolen from her by an act of murder, and she no longer believes the WM3 were involved. There are so many who believe WM3 are not the perps — not based only on a “feeling”, but after careful review of the evidence presented at the trials, and the Rule 37 hearings. I have spent months researching and reading, even consulting with an ME and a forensic DNA specialist, and I am left with a growing mountain of reasonable doubt. So, I cannot blame or judge this mom who actually sat through each painful trial, and lived through the worst thing a parent can ever experience. Imo, after all she has been through, she –of all people– is entitled to her opinion, and shouldn’t have to worry about what people are going to think of her.
Btw, Pam, if you read here, may God be with you every step of the way. You have my full support.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And, Matt, sorry if I seemed a bit snippy earlier, but that’s what a throbbing toothache (unfortunately) will do to you — just ask my husband! He caught a few snips, too. I do understand why you feel Byers’ may have sold Chris down the river. But, please remember, it’s all a matter of perspective and based on an individual’s experiences. After my young uncle, Franklin, was murdered and dumped in a cotton field in 1961 and left to rot in the hot August sun, there were no Amber alerts or people willing to look for him. My family searched, and five days later, my 13 y/o aunt found her brother’s bloated corpse. My Grandfather, believing it was all his fault since he had disciplined Franklin before he left with his friends, went mad and had to be committed to a state mental hospital. I guarantee you, had some documentary makers come around, I can only imagine the crazy stuff he would have spewed out in his state of grief…and anger. And being poor as a church mouse, and in his disjointed frame of mind, he probably would’ve accepted money. IMO, when one wakes up to find their child or stepchild has been murdered, things are never the same again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
May God be with Stevie, Chris and Michael, and their families and friends. These precious children know the truth; just as they know eternal peace.
Would your grandfather have accepted money after being accused of killing his own son in a documentary, book and by thousands of people on numerous websites? Would he have then ‘changed sides’ and become the darling of these same people? Would he then accuse another innocent man of the same accusations that were aimed at him?
I’m sorry about your uncle and the guilt your grandfather went through but it sounds like your grandfather went crazy with guilt & grief. Byers whipped his son with a leather belt the last time he seen him and was physically abusive to little Christopher often drawing blood from beatings. He never cared for Chris and is so off his head in PL3 that it’s another insult to his stepsons memory.
Matt, your post is an emotional one, and I do not disagree. However, I want to stay respectful and not personal to each other. You are not out of line, but I want all reading to know when we are approaching boundaries. Tia.
B
Grace, I want to again, offer my sincere condolences to you and your family regarding your uncles tragic murder. I hope that his murder was not unsolved.
Thank you for sharing your story with us, in the hopes of opening our minds and hearts to what survivors can go through in the aftermath of such a tragedy. I for one appreciate the moral of your story-
We can not know, unless we have been there-
I hope you will share your research/conversations with us in the future.
—
Matt- – please excuse me for saying this but your entire January 25, 2012 at 5:43 am is simply your opinion. You do not know Mr. Byers. You can not claim to know what he feels, and you can not claim to know his motivations for his feelings or for his change of heart.
You are entitled to your opinion – but I feel I must stand up and say I am entirely uncomfortable with how we seem to be attacking the victims family in this case- at least to those that do not agree with the stance of the 3′s guilt- or the police handling of this case.
When following the Caylee Anthony case, it was very easy for some to attack the grandparents of little Caylee and it was easy for us to loose sight of the fact that they were victims too- emotions ran high and it became easier and easier for some to hate The Grandparents and question their loyalties and love -
Blink was the voice of reason she would say (pp) please do not do this- They loved their Caylee- they are victims too, they have made choices we do not agree with- I understand, but we can not loose sight of why we are here- I am worried that the hate of the grandparents will prevent Caylee from getting justice-
She was right- the defense team saw the hate and the venom- and the doubt of love and took that and created a scenario where The Grandparents- (mostly george) were asked to defend themselves over accusations of accidental death/ improper disposal/molestation/ and yes, even murder.
The question became who was Caylees caregiver in those last moments- not the facts of Mommy Casey was obviously and legally Caylees caregiver and Caylee is dead because of this Mommys actions or inactions- who lied and covered up her death? and then proceeded to go on with their bella vita?- who benefited from her death?-
What happened to supporting the victims families, in what ever way possible? ? What happened to our compassion? What happened to understanding the stages of grief and all that entails? When did it become a matter of support only when we are in full agreement with their thoughts or behaviors or parenting skills?
My unconditional and continued prayers for Stevie, Chris and Mike and to all of their family members-
AJMO
You have given me much to think about as usual. I will admit since I feel as though the victims in this case are being re-victimized by the people that are supposed to love them (with previously noted exceptions of course). Imo Mark Byers is of diminished capacity, and Ms. Hobbs has had her share of set backs. They both want a different life, and who can blame them for that I guess?
That said, I am particularly peeved by Ms. Hobbs statement that they re-open the case.
No doubt in my mind she knows that Ellington is funneling everything to the defense they would need to do so, and I have yet to hear about the results of any further testing.
As you know, I am admittedly of the opinion that Echols, Baldwin and Misskelley are responsible for this crime, so for me this is like watching a real life Kubrick rehersal to put it mildly.
Sigh.
B
Ragdoll- waving back-
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Raddoll-
In this instance I dont think it is a matter of radar though- I believe Pam has from the beginning had questions and concerns IRT who may or may not have been involved in the boys murders-
I know it is hard for each and everyone of these parents- and it is a shame there is still so much uncertainty and doubt surrounding this case- despite there having been two trials and an alford plea-
My heart goes out to these families.
Vicki- Hi– I am not sure what info you are asking me for- if it is the links I tried to post- the board isnt accepting them – thanks for asking about me – How are you doing?
AJMO
Peace
@ Matt….”often drawing blood from beatings”????
Is this just speculation, or do you have a link to support this
allegation? If you do, I’d like to see it please.
I believe Matt is referring to the pre-existing wounding on Chris Byers found at autopsy, confessed to by Mr. Byers, and iirc, a subject of inquiry within the guidance counselors of Chris’s school and subsequent consultation with his Dr who prescribed his medications.
B
And also,….”he never cared for Chris”????
Matt,….he ADOPTED Chris…how is that not caring for him?
Xara- Mr. Buyers did not adopt Chris. In fact, it is my understanding that Mr. Murray, Chris’s biological father had his tombstone changed to reflect his proper name.
B
@ Blink……You are confusing Stevie and Chris.
It was Stevie’s headstone that was changed…Hobbs was removed.
And, Chris was indeed adopted by JMB.
Your right and I stand corrected, thank you Xara.
B
“What happened to supporting the victims families, in what ever way possible? ? What happened to our compassion? What happened to understanding the stages of grief and all that entails? When did it become a matter of support only when we are in full agreement with their thoughts or behaviors or parenting skills?”
_____________________________
Agree completely mom3.0. I saw the money grubbing and no sympathy posts and it made me not want to post anything else here — particularly the ones about the mother. She has a different opinion from some of the people here — that does not make her less sympathetic, less of a victim or even, dare I say it, wrong.
Mom3.0 says:
January 25, 2012 at 11:32 am
Grace, I want to again, offer my sincere condolences to you and your family regarding your uncles tragic murder. I hope that his murder was not unsolved.
Thank you for sharing your story with us, in the hopes of opening our minds and hearts to what survivors can go through in the aftermath of such a tragedy. I for one appreciate the moral of your story-
We can not know, unless we have been there-
I hope you will share your research/conversations with us in the future.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you, Mom3.0, for your kindness and compassion for all victims, including the family members. Yes, thankfully my uncle’s murder was solved, but it never really brought closure. My grandfather was never quite the same. I guess that is what I was really trying to convey. A murder of a child changes a family forever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think so much of this back and forth could have been ameliorated if only this case had proceeded to retrials for DE, JB and JM. I was shocked that they were allowed to take Alford pleas. An Alford plea does not mean you are automatically sentenced to time served, and released back into the community. It is not an automatic get out of jail free card. One has to ask oneself this: If a prosecutor and judge truly believe these three men heinously murdered these three little boys and mutilated two of them, why would they agree to a sentence of time served and release them back into the community? My DH keeps gently reminding me that there is likely so much more to this story (legally) than we know — or ever will know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
redly says:
January 25, 2012 at 1:11 pm
@Redly, excellent post. I totally agree with you.
My dearest Grace I owe you an apology. I have not had the time to come back to offer my sympathies for such a trajedy. Please forgive my warp speed faux pas.
Wrt to the alford plea and sentencing of the WM3, the plea deal was absolutely set in stone that the three would be sentenced to time served, period, nothing left to chance. In fact, Judge Laser had input as to some of the wording, iirc.
I would love to hear Mr. Grace’s thoughts on how the whole thing went down from a prosecutorial perspective- as a matter of law, every counselor I have ever spoken to agrees that according to the verbiage of the “new evidentiary hearing” a new trial, formality or otherwise, is a direct violation of that order.
B
Redly – Agree completely mom3.0. I saw the money grubbing and no sympathy posts and it made me not want to post anything else here — particularly the ones about the mother. She has a different opinion from some of the people here — that does not make her less sympathetic, less of a victim or even, dare I say it, wrong.
Im sorry if I offended anybody but these are only my own views. Best thing about the people who post here is they think of the children first and foremost which is rarer than a knife & fork on death row (I hope ye get the joke).
“No doubt in my mind she knows that Ellington is funneling everything to the defense they would need to do so” Could you elaborate on this please?
Sure. In the town meeting held at the Clinton School, Ellington openly told the public that all leads and inquiries should be directed to defense counsel.
B
Another interview with Pam Hobbs:
http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/local/pam-hobbs-on-wm3%2C-her-ex%2C-and-meeting-damien-echols-rpt-20120125
How anyone could NOT feel sypmathy for this woman is beyond me.
Don’t you think she means reopen the case in the sense of investigating the crime and perhaps prosecuting someone else — in other words the murder investigation, not the now closed case against the WM3. I don’t think the case against the WM3 can be reopened by the state. Certainly the defense could not. The judge perhaps could do it and the governor could of course issue a pardon.
I agree that is her position redly but the evidence used and/or collected by WMPD and the FBI would absolutely still be relevant. As far as the WM3 are concerned from a prosecutorial perspective, this case is over, period. Judge Laser has no standing to do anything on his own, and the Supreme Court has the ability to “investigate” the outcome at the circuit level sua sponte but they are apparently hepped up on mountain dew. ( No matter what ANYONE thinks of guilt or innocense, I promise you this case will be referenced in another case, and in another state and there will be no Hollywood funds to support a serious criminal walking free.. wait for it)
Ellington is on record that he believes the Wm3 are guilty, and with the exception of new evidence, which he instructed to be sent NOT TO HIM or the WMPD, but to be sent to their defense counsel, the case is closed. It is my understanding some of the evidence has already been returned to family.
So my point is, while I believe Ms. Hobbs believes now that the wm3 are not responsible for the death of her son and Michael and Chris, it is not even logical or possible, so her words were sentimental in nature.
I have never and will never judge the actions of a grieving parent, that is not my place, nor my role.
I work for the 3 innocent boys who have no voice, and do the best I can when justice in their murders has been elusive.
B
News about town is slow, so to hear in the Jonesboro Sun today that Ellington had received a defense “evidence” packet, versus yesterday that he stated he had received nothing, is interesting. Now after reading Blink, I’m not surprised that Ellington forwarded it to the families. I wonder, did he even scan it? Probably not. He’s done with it. Closed doors. Not the temperature of the crowd here. They all scream and holler Inncocent Men.
i posted a link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47f1R7oOE7k&feature=g-all-u&context=G2fe3a62FAAAAAAAAMAA
Why re-open a case when 3 men have pleaded guilty to the crime in a court of law?
“Why re-open a case when 3 men have pleaded guilty to the crime in a court of law?”
You either misunderstand what an Alford Plea is or are simply ignoring what it is. Whether they did it or not, their guilty plea was made under claims of innocence. To twist it any other way is ridiculous.
ok, let’s get this on the table already, under Arkansas Supreme Court:
“Under North Carolina v. Alford, 400 U.S. 25 (1970), a court may accept a guilty plea from a defendant who maintains his innocence, provided the court finds an adequate factual basis for the plea of guilty. Typically, a criminal defendant will utilize an Alford plea when he “intelligently concludes that his interests require entry of a guilty plea” in light of strong evidence of actual guilt with the intention of limiting the penalty to be imposed.” Arkansas Supreme Court (2006)[22]
That is the verbiage under the State of Arkansas that these 3 defendants own, pure and simple.
I do note however the 800 service that is included in the event folks want to go to premiers or hang out that goes right to the judges chambers. That is quite a perk.
B
Yes, but you can’t simply look over the fact that they would have spent at least another half year in jail. You have no idea what it is like to be in the situation they were in. If I had been in jail for 18 years for something I either did or didn’t do and my health was in jeopardy, I sure as hell would be taking an Alford Plea if it was given to me.
It’s called the state saving its ass from law suits and embarrassment. They knew there was no way they could win in a trial, so they gave the WM3 an irresistible offer. And even then, Baldwin wanted no part of it.
I am going to answer you respectfully and warn you that your tone is bordering on antagonistic and rude, I welcome dissenting respectful opinions and debate.
I am not overlooking anything. This choice was made by them, they own it.
This is what drives me mad about supporters for the most part. You’re all like radicals and hair on fire and remiss in your FACTUAL knowledge of the case, especially the parts that point to guilt, or are flat out misinformation.
To wit: The state DID not offer a deal. The defense approached the state on several occasions, the state declined to discuss anything other than a plea of guilt, period. ( Don’t think I am pro-Ellington cause as far as I am concerned he is linus with an invisible blanket- I digress)
Speaking of why Jason finally did concede- do you happen to know why he did? I do, and if ever there is a time anyone wishes to dispute that and I am not legally prohibited by some motion to do so, I can prove where his attorneys read the information about the ice axe, where they forwarded the links, and who read them immediately thereafter.
Evidence of guilt, no. Evidence of someone changing their mind for the sake of someone else- ok, whateves, I know that to be false.
I also have not overlooked them being in jail half their lives. Imo, they deserved it and still do.
I believe these men killed these children in a bully event gone wrong fast.
I also blame Bret Davis, John Fogleman, Gil Gitchell and Bryn Ridge for not opening their mouths in protest of their release or answering phone calls. Mike Allen was the only one with the guts.
Shame.
B
And by “They knew there was no way they could win in a trial” I mean they state knew that they didn’t have a case.
“Speaking of why Jason finally did concede- do you happen to know why he did? I do, and if ever there is a time anyone wishes to dispute that and I am not legally prohibited by some motion to do so, I can prove where his attorneys read the information about the ice axe, where they forwarded the links, and who read them immediately thereafter.
Evidence of guilt, no. Evidence of someone changing their mind for the sake of someone else- ok, whateves, I know that to be false.”
You’re funny. If you think your information is the reason Jason accepted the deal, you need a massive reality check. You are the same person who claimed that Guy Ward Hendrickson was definitely the Zodiac killer. The ice axe wounds don’t even match the wounds on the boys. Your analysis is beyond flawed.
You are out of your element. As for my antagonistic tone, suck it up. You spew your info as if you solved the case, when you have done anything but.
Well now, someone hit happy hour and is not happy. I never said anything like that, the crazy person did. Out of my element? I doubt you know a single person close to this case because while we disagree, I can assure you my work on this case is well respected…So on a trip down to your level, I say you suck it. More on that in the future.
It is awfully easy to critique someone else’s work when you don’t have any of your own out there, isn’t it? The great thing about this site is that it has my name on it, not Marty’s so I get to make the rules and rude don’t fly. Have you considered if you have to act like an assbite to speak your mind about something nobody takes you seriously so why waste your time?
B
Reading the posts, LOVING B knocking it out of the park with facts, not emotional based responses (not naming names).
Here’s the deal….the plea sticks. There’s no re-opening this case. It is what is it.
My question is…what do we do for our wee cubs to keep this on the straight and narrow, much like the ‘cword’ system?
Anyone getting what I’m throwin down…cause I’ve had about as much as I can take with enabled killers walkin free, livin the life and playing victim. It’s not working for me.
You know what, screw it. I deeply apologize for my harsh comments. I think I’m just going to tune this case out for a while. It’s enough to drive one crazy. It’s not my job to figure the case out, so I’ll just wait for that one day where there is a better sense of closure, whether it be that the WM3 are actually innocent or actually guilty.
It is, and I accept your apology. I dare say, regardless of one’s opinions on this case, none of us will ever actually have closure. I have decided it is the seeking of the truth in this case that is supposed to fill that need- albeit squarely.
B
In regards to who asked for the Alford,
The Alford Plea was put forth by Patrick Benca who was a member of Damien Echol’s defence team. He organized a lunch with the Attorney General Dustin McDaniel and suggested the idea to him.
Having gone to law school with Attorney General Dustin McDaniel, Benca had lunch with his friend earlier this month.* That discussion he says lead to McDaniels setting up a meeting with members of the defense team and prosecutor Scott Ellington.* Benca pitched the idea of an Alford plea.
http://www.katv.com/story/15303501/w…-deal-happened
Hey Blink,
Thanks for the great coverage of this case//where can I find part 3?
thanks
On hold, will post prior to publication on this thread
B
Hey blink,
I’ve been reading all your stuff on the WM3 for a few months now, I just read and re read everything. Thanks for the great work you did, I truly believe that DE, JB, and JM are guilty as sin! Will you ever explain what you’re talking about when you said that why Jason finally conceded to the Alford plea, did that have something to do with the ice ax? Oh, please oh please, hurry with part three
First, I would like to express my sincerest sympathy to Todd and Dana Moore and Steve Branch. In my opinion, they are they only ones who did not foresake their son in the circus created by Hollywood.
I have reviewed the various documents available, read reports and watched various programs regarding the case.
I do not proclaim to be an expert … Not by any means. The one thing that strikes me as off base are the statements of “no DNA” linking the 3 defendents to the scene … Ok.
Fibers? Candle wax? And dont get me started on the bite marks. At mid 30s your saying their teeth are in the exact same position as they were at 16 to 18 ? I dont believe so …. Especially is wisdom teeth came in … Mine came in and pushed my top and bottom teeth out of alignment.
Then there are the alibis …. Where were the WM3?
Jessies confession and specifically in regards to the alcohol bottle location …. Later confirmed found in exact location by his own defenselawyer.
42. PA 8686 says:
January 31, 2012 at 8:45 pm
Fibers? Candle wax? And dont get me started on the bite marks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What bite marks?
Okay, I am back- I had to step away for a breather.
Blink and all, I am glad my January 25, 2012 at 11:32 am post, gave you much to think about, thank you for sharing your thoughts guys.
I do understand why you feel the way you do.
I do not want these 3 little boys to be re-victimized either.
But honestly I do not think the parents have done that, certainly not by participating in the films or by participating in forums,or in news interviews, or by changing their thoughts and feelings… this is the same way I feel about those parents who are on the opposite side of the spectrum.. They have not re- victimized their children either.
All of the family members have had their share of ups and downs, and hardships- not just Stevie’s mom and Chris’ dad. All of them have seen their families torn asunder, and wish they could have different lives- starting with the wish that their murdered sons were alive and well- I can not stand in judgment over any of them.
What I have had a hard time dealing with is comments that seem to disparage two of these parents for simply holding a different opinion then those that believe beyond any shadow of a doubt that these 3 men did it.
Many intelligent people, including myself, have some of the same questions and concerns regarding the police investigation and the evidence that convicted these three. We are not of diminished capacity nor do we wish for a better life- and we have not been duped by any propaganda nor have we been led astray by smoke and mirrors.
I fully support Todd and Dana Moore- I would never question their integrity, their intelligence, or their love of Mike- my prayers are not reserved for only those parents with which I agree-
So I can not understand why it seems so easy for some to do this to Stevie’s Mom and Chris’ dad.
Despite what some may feel this is not a clear cut case of guilt without reasonable doubt- it has always been a circumstantial case wrapped up in the trappings of a poorly handled investigation which led to huge mistakes and missteps.
If anyone has a right to question these verdicts or this investigation, or the Alford Plea or Ellington, or the films, or each other- it is the parents-.
Cont part 2
AJMO
@ PA 8686 says:
January 31, 2012 at 8:45 pm
I’m in with you on the condolescences. I’m not one bit surprised by this nomination (let’s face it, the hope is to draw in big ratings and viewers). It’s just business, right? (s to the nark)
I pray the Moore’s continue to press forward despite the Oscar Committee’s ignorance and arrogance. Hollywood wasn’t exactly built on heart, values, and high moral standards.
Lastly, I won’t be tuning in for this very reason. I’ll stand by our wee cubs and the Moore’s however I can, albeit with a heavy heart. I’m so sorry!
Mom 3.0, me in bold my dearest friend, I may only get to one of these tonight, interviews in different case in opposite time zone and working on 3 hours shut eye as it is- please forgive
Blink your response to me read in part:
“That said, I am particularly peeved by Ms. Hobbs statement that they re-open the case.”
“No doubt in my mind she knows that Ellington is funneling everything to the defense they would need to do so, and I have yet to hear about the results of any further testing.”
And in response to redly you wrote in part:
“I agree that is her position redly but the evidence used and/or collected by WMPD and the FBI would absolutely still be relevant. As far as the WM3 are concerned from a prosecutorial perspective, this case is over, period. Judge Laser has no standing to do anything on his own, and the Supreme Court has the ability to “investigate” the outcome at the circuit level sua sponte but they are apparently hepped up on mountain dew. ( No matter what ANYONE thinks of guilt or innocense, I promise you this case will be referenced in another case, and in another state and there will be no Hollywood funds to support a serious criminal walking free.. wait for it)”
“Ellington is on record that he believes the Wm3 are guilty, and with the exception of new evidence, which he instructed to be sent NOT TO HIM or the WMPD, but to be sent to their defense counsel, the case is closed. It is my understanding some of the evidence has already been returned to family.”
“So my point is, while I believe Ms. Hobbs believes now that the wm3 are not responsible for the death of her son and Michael and Chris, it is not even logical or possible, so her words were sentimental in nature.”
–
Blink I fully understand where you are coming from, and I fully understand that as a matter of law these 3 did make a plea of guilt (at the same time asserting their innocence)
But I do not understand why you are upset with Pam for her feelings and thoughts.
Her little boy was murdered, and she now has doubts that the 3 tried and convicted and set free by the state -are the culprits- Despite what you or they or any Alford Plea states, she feels that this case should be re-opened. She wants the courts to review the evidence all the evidence- she wants to KNOW beyond any doubt what happened to her baby boy and his friends.
She is being re-victimized just the same as Mark, and Todd and Dana- by this Alford Plea this “purgatory” I dont think it is a matter of sentiment or feelings she is begging for help.
Shouldnt we be backing her, especially since we both believe the first cases had reasonable doubt?
Ellington touted one of his reasons, and that was SPECIFIC to Pam Hobbs, that she already believed in the WM3 innocence, and this would be an obstacle in a potential re-trial. How does that work? Before allowing the state the oppty to present updated testing and present it’s contemporary findings all of those I am referring to, whether it was presented previously or not.
Reasonable doubt is a legal term used in a charge to jury that is deliberating, I stated I was not sure I could convict these 3 18 years ago as their cases were presented, but I sure as heck wanted the opportunity for the possibility of a fair trial, should the evidentiary hearing warrant it.
That said, there are many people I think are guilty of the crimes they are connected to, for example, Casey Anthony, where someone else found “reasonable doubt”- it does not change the fact I believe in HER guilt and the guilt of WN3. And I do, strongly.
d
I think we should be backing her the same way we are backing Todd and Dana in their possible civil suits. perhaps Pam and Mark should look into suing LE /the state for doing such and awful job.
1. Mark Byers has no standing to sue anyone for anything, not that would not be dismissed as frivolous anyway.
2. If Hobbs and Byers feel they have merit to sue Terry Hobbs, they should.
My compassion for the parent of a child that is murdered does not change with the caveat that it did not involve them, regardless of their actions. I wept when I saw Pam hit the ground and heard her wail- I can hear that as I am writing this.
I realize that Ellington stated he believes this case is closed- and that he said he believes these 3 are guilty of these crimes but at the same time, he said he thought he would lose another court case- and therefore these 3 would have been found innocent by the same means that first found them guilty-
There was no opportunity for a new case in front of him to lose. It is like saying- in the 3rd grade, I think when I try out for the NBA, I will not make the team. The request for the new trial was denied.. in lieu of the evidentiary hearing. And how many of those have resulted in new trials with a similar set of circumstances in different cases did Mr. Ellington cite? ZIPWHICH.
So there is doubt that a court of Law always comes back with the appropriate verdict- whose to say which verdict would have been just?
Yes Ellington did say- anything should be sent off to the defense- this is because they are the only ones that care to see/hear anything more. Could it all be a ruse to wrongfully get three real murderers exonerated- yes, but it could also be because they are working to clear the names of three wrongfully convicted innocent men.
Ellington would be disbarred if that actually happend. That said, I agree with you Ellington would rather draw the Mona Lisa on an etcha sketch than hear another word about this case.
Shouldn’t we all be eager for any further evidence to come to light- nomatter if it is an ice ax which seems to point towards guilt or a new witness which seems to point toward innocence etc?
AJMO
cont Part 3
I am most eager to hear any new evidence from any party that is actual evidence.
I was told the defense is spending more millions to make that happen, can’t wait for it.
We are not going to agree on this one, as you know, and that is ok, my belief in their guilt drives my opinion, nowhere else to go with that I am afraid.
Heart u
B
Blink you wrote in part to Matt-
“Speaking of why Jason finally did concede- do you happen to know why he did? I do, and if ever there is a time anyone wishes to dispute that and I am not legally prohibited by some motion to do so, I can prove where his attorneys read the information about the ice axe, where they forwarded the links, and who read them immediately thereafter.”
“Evidence of guilt, no. Evidence of someone changing their mind for the sake of someone else- ok, whateves, I know that to be false.”
“I also have not overlooked them being in jail half their lives. Imo, they deserved it and still do.”
“I believe these men killed these children in a bully event gone wrong fast.”
“I also blame Bret Davis, John Fogleman, Gil Gitchell and Bryn Ridge for not opening their mouths in protest of their release or answering phone calls. Mike Allen was the only one with the guts.”
“Shame.”
First let me say- I do not doubt you and yes, I would very much like to see their reactions and to whom they sent emails immediately following the reading of your article- I wish you were privy to what was written also…
I realize that it certainly would not be evidence of guilt- but at the same time, I know that it is important to have all the facts before us-
If I may, I would like to add something to these thoughts:
“I also blame Bret Davis, John Fogleman, Gil Gitchell and Bryn Ridge for not opening their mouths in protest of their release or answering phone calls. Mike Allen was the only one with the guts.”
Blink, In my opinion your blame does not go far enough- I blame these men for what has ultimately happened- The Alford plea- had the case been handled properly from the start, if evidence had been handled properly from the start, if the scene was handled properly from the start, if the potential witnesses and POI’s and if the questioning /interviewing of family members and neighbors etc- had been handled properly from the start.. there would never have been an avenue for these 3 men to use the Alford Plea as “a get out of jail free card”(18 years later)-
Ellington would have never doubted their case… there would have been no need for the Paradise lost films… or for a ” cause ” there would be no doubt that they got the right Bguys-
Instead because of the mishandling, and the questions and concerns regarding each facet of this investigation and case- we all ended up being railroaded by the system-
AJMO
Peace
True dat, cannot argue. The system in Arkansas failed every person involved and life goes on, for most.
The Arkansas Bar must have extremely comfortable couches as they all seem to be asleep there.
B
oops I mistaken attributed Marls comments and your response to Matt-
My apologies.
Matt- thank you for acknowledging BOCs contributors compassion for the victims- I just want to let you know I was not singling you out, I understand that your comments are just your point of view and that you meant no harm. DITTO
xara- thank you for sharing your knowledge with us- much appreciated.
also thank you for sharing that interview with Pam- I cant imagine anyone not caring about her pain and anguish. I was surprised to hear that she hopes the PL film wins the Oscar- I imagine it was hard for her to reach that decision..
Grace- glad you are still here and thank you for letting me know that your uncles murder was solved- I am sorry it did not provide much healing or closure. I wish there was more I could do to convey my sadness over your loss and pain grace- please know you and your family will remain in my prayers forever.
Redly, thank you for speaking up and sharing your thoughts, especially when you had decided to stay clear of these threads. Please, stay, I value your comments and I know from past experience that your posts are always full of objective perspectives and facts.
Mark- glad you decided to offer an apology- I hope you stick around.
Vicki thanks for posting that link- I havent watched it yet- but I will soon and as promised i will give you my thoughts on it FWTW
PA 8686, Hi. Cant you find it in your heart to extend your compassion and prayers to all the parents they surely do need it- especially if it is as you believe that they have been tricked into forsaking their sons for money or fame.
AS to your thoughts on the evidence, I disagree- the fiber evidence is no more or less damning to the 3 as it is to anyone that owned a rayon/cotton red shirt or a grananimals shirt or a toilet seat cover or red robe- did you realize there were 3 LEO officers at the crime scene who were wearing red shirts? and did you realize that Ride himself wore a shirt with red and blue writing on the front iof it- and did you realize that the biys bodies were not handled properly, and that they were not bagged- and that their clothes were put out on the banks to dry and turned right side oput…aqnd did you realize they were placed in commmom paper grocery bags from stores nearby…have you ever looked closely at a paper bag ? you might be surprised to find some contain small colored fibers…and as for that candle wax-
There was never any testing of it, and IF there was NO NOTES and NO FINDINGS were documented none were taken and Lisa testified she does not document evidence that is found to differ from initial thoughts- meaning it seems there was no match…and also I realize you have not researched alot, but did you know that we are not even sure where this supposed blue candle wax was found on which shirt- and we do not know if it was inside the shirt or if it was on the outside….and we cant even know if the supposed blue candle wax on the witches book matches this shirt “wax”….and did you know no photos can be found of this candle wax on the shirt. and sadly Lisa died so we can not ask her about any possibly lost documentys or testing…
The DNA that MAY have included the 3′s was also consistant with 11% of the population and could have easily included any # of unnamed suspects so even though it could match the 3 it could also match a whole lot of other people….
As for the bite marks- I assume you are speaking about the mark above little Stevies eye? If so- that is not a bite mark certainly not oa human bite mark- and I doubt it is an animal bite as well…as for the suction like bite marks- most experts, and researchers have concluded that these marks could have came from aquatic animal predation/necrophagia- if you are taking about the ^^ on Stevies face, I realize you may think it ridiculous, but I through my research I have found that it is highly possible that these marks were from the bite of a snapping turtle….Ir you are talking about any of Chriss facial wounds, I am sorry I was unable to find any phots of these but their description in the autopsy seems to be consistant with Stevies wounds, so I think it is at least possible they too were created by animal predation/necrophagia.
So I must echo graces question what bite marks?
As to your thoughts on teeth placement throughout ones life I agree.
As to the 3′s alibis- well according to Narlene Hollingsworth, Jesse was at her trailer park… oh wait she was mistaken….hmmm I giueess you solved the3 case- 3 teens dont have an accounting for their exact whereabouts other than saying they were at school, or work, or hanging out at home and on the phone and at walmart playing video games, and sleeping….yep round up them pesky teens -
But make sure you include the Hollingsworth clan especially LG, and lets not forget all those kids that were hanging out around the woods, you know like the three boys Mikes sister saw exiting them, and the rest- cause they were never found… lots of teens wouldnt have had confirmable alibis.
Jesses confessions are full of outright lies and meandering false facts and dubious well know details…And that Evan Williams bottle? well you know it wasnt found EXACTLY where Jesse said it would be- and it cant be confirmed to be Evan Williams as it was broken but it was said to be similiar you know Jack Daniels is also consistent with a 5th of Evan Williams, just more expensive….and another thing I must mention — There was no blood or prints or any trace evidence found on this broken bottle so other than it being found under an underpass- and POSSIBLY being an EW bottle there is nothing to tie it to THE bottle Jesse claims he walked with all day, and kept with him until his anger at what Damien and ‘dem did to those boys over took his better judgment (I guess)- forcing him to finally throw it under an overpass…..
Thanks for letting me share my thoughts- and thanks for sharing yours PA 8686 – I appreciate your post and your opinions who knows you could be correct….
AJMO
Heart u Too Blink- get some rest-
Ps sorry for all the typos etc.
Good night.
Vicki I watched the you-tube clip-
entitled “what Paradise lost left out”
Thank you for posting that link-
Unfortunately the user removed it- but a “revised” version is available on the wm3 truth site-
First, I will commend the creator for his visual effects as well as his choice of background music- I thought the video was rather well- done and his list was accurate on some of the things which were left out.
It begins with # 1 Damien failed his polygraph
True, this was not mentioned in the films- it should have been- and IF it were included then the fact that the exam was not taped should also be included, as well as any charts to view, as well as the baseline questions that were used to calibrate the subjects responses…hmmm seems there was none? Also the information regarding the credentials of the interviewer and the last know “check-up” of the machinery should also have been included–
—-
The examiner clearly states “IT IS MY OPINION” that the subject recorded significant responses indicative of deception when answering 5 questions -
A TEN QUESTION POLYGRAPH TEST WAS FORMULATED AND THREE POLYGRAPH CHARTS WERE CONDUCTED.THE TEST CONTAINED THE FOLLOWING RELEVANT QUESTIONS:
Q.#3. AT ANY TIME WEDNESDAY OR WEDNESDAY NIGHT, WERE YOU IN ROBIN HOOD HILLS? “NO”
Q.#5. WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN THOSE BOYS WERE KILLED? “NO”
Q.#7. DID YOU KILL ANY OF THOSE THREE BOYS? “NO”
Q.#9. DO YOU KNOW WHO KILLED THOSE THREE BOYS? “NO”
Q.#10.DO YOU SUSPECT ANYONE OF HAVING KILLED THOSE THREE BOYS? “NO”
Conclusion: “deception noted”
—
But wait!!!!! The other questions were “truthful” right, no deception noted? right??
Those questions were:
1. HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN A POLYGRAPH TEST BEFORE?
2. IN REGARD TO THE MURDER OF THOSE THREE YOUNG BOYS, ARE YOU GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH DURING THIS TEST?
4. HAVE YOU EVER KILLED A CAT OR A DOG?
6. HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN PART IN DEVIL WORSHIP?
8. HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY DRUGS OR MEDICATION TODAY?
Gee- so DE was truthful when he answered whether or not he killed a dog or cat, or had taken a poly before and, he was truthful on whether or not he participated in Devil Worship and whether or not he was on meds and-
Most importantly—- if he was going to be truthful during the examine…But hmmm he must have been deceptive-
because “IN THE OPINION” of the examiner, DE lied on 5 questions… he was deceptive…gee, something must be wrong with the machine, or perhaps with the charts, or perhaps with the examiner, or perhaps no “baseline” questions were utilized to calibrate the machine properly…or perhaps DE moved about or coughed or something? IDK
But something was sure off wasnt it?….
Next comes The post interview-
“Subject denied any involvement”
AFTER approximately 45 MINUTES- the subject was asked what was he afraid of?
His answer The electric chair–
—
Well, considering the subject was there being asked over and over again about his involvement, and 18 year old kid, who repeatedly keeps saying- I didnt have anything to do with this crime- I know nothing about it-
despite his denials, he is told he failed the poly and there he sits- for 45 minutes with Ridge interrogating him and possible bringing up what could happen if he just doesnt come clean and tell the truth- Conclusion the electric chair-
So when asked What are you afraid of? He tells the truth- “the electric chair-” perhaps because despite the fact that he keeps assuring them he is telling the truth- he did nothing and knows nothing -they keep telling him he is lying and the punishment will be death by electrocution… this goes on for 45 minutes.
Then he says he liked the hospital— well gee I wonder why he said that out of the clear blue sky- could it be that this subject was broached by the officers, perhaps when asking about meds for his manic depression ? IDK – But DE says- I liked the hospital….
Then the next thing noted is “after a short period of time” well gee was this more or less than 45 minutes? Why wasnt the exact time noted?- IDK, but “after a short period of time the subject ceased to deny his involvement”
Hmmm he ceased to deny his involvement- which he had been asserting all day long and through the polygraph examination, and throughout the post interview for at least 45 minutes.
How did he “cease to deny his involvement?” *(ADMISSION THROUGH ABSENCE OF DENIAL)* In other words, they kept asking and instead of CONTINUING to voice his denial like he had done all day long, he sat quiet…
How long did DE sit quietly refusing to deny anymore? What was Ridge asking him, what was being said how was it being said?? IDK but DE, this 18 year old kid, sits there mutely and then says “I WILL TELL YOU ALL ABOUT IT IF YOU WILL LET ME TALK TO MY MOTHER.” – Ridge goes to get her- and allows them to speak- They speak in the same office and then the interrogation resumes – what was asked? IDK? But For “approximately” 20 minutes more- Damien again denies any involvement-
Then after this, he is asked YOUR’E NEVER GOING TO TELL ANYONE ABOUT THIS BUT YOUR DOCTOR, ARE YOU?” HE REPLIED: “NO”.
—
So in summation DE was brought in he was given a 10 question polygraph, and he was said to have failed- 5 questions deception 5 truthful…”in the opinion” of the examiner-
DE was interrogated he continued to deny all involvement- they didnt believe him and he finally stopped answering and asked for his mom- and he was granted this, because he said Ill talk to you if I can talk to my mom-
He then continued to deny- and still he was not believed- He said he was afraid of the electric chair, wouldnt you be if you were being accused of murdering 3 little boys and especially if you were told you failed a polygraph? I would.
And he said he liked it at the hospital…wouldnt you, if you were comparing it to prison or death by electrocution? I would. and if you needed to talk to someone who could help you deal,- wouldnt you talk to your doctor? I would, and that doesnt mean I would be telling him about the murders just that I would want to talk to someone about everything that happened to me while I was at the police station- about being scared, and not knowing what to do…. and about how helpless I felt despite having my mom there…you know my feelings, which are noones business but my own and possibly a shrinks…
and if you were 18 years old and being interrogated for murder wouldnt you want to talk to your mom, wouldnt you want the questioning to stop? Would you say what you had to, inorder to see and talk to your mom? I would.
Having said all that yep the failed polygraph of DE was not included in the films- it should have been as well as all other pertinent info-
AJMO
Cont part 2