The West Memphis Three HBO Paradise Lost Purgatory: Victims Parents Plea For No Oscar, Call Film Cruel Hoax

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1. Mom3.0 says:

   February 2, 2012 at 3:11 am

   Is there anybody out there? I hope I am not talking to myself…

   I failed to include the link from Callys in my previous post-
   here it is:
   http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/depoly.html

   Also for anyone who cares to review DE’s polygraph charts, here is the link:

   http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/de_polygraph_charts.html
2. Mom3.0 says:

   February 2, 2012 at 3:51 am

   To Vicki and anyoneelse still around-

   Part 2
   My Thoughts on the Information not in PLost Films- as shown in video entitled- “What paradise lost left out”-

   # 2 Jessie Misskelly failed his polygraph

   True TMK, this information was not included in the films- It should have been- It should also included whether or not the Polygraph examine was calibrated with baseline questions and whether or not the examiner was an expert, and whether or not the machine had a check-up to make sure it was running properly- Should also included any charts and the fact that the examiner said Misskelly was “lying his ass off” and it should also be included that the 5 questions that Jesse did answer truthfully, were not included in the report- the five questions he was “lying his ass off about” were noted—

   A TEN QUESTION POLYGRAPH TEST WAS FORMULATED AND THREE POLYGRAPH CHARTS WERE CONDUCTED.THE TEST CONTAINED THE FOLLOWING RELEVANT QUESTIONS:
   3.HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN ROBIN HILL WOODS “NO”

   5. HAVE YOU EVER TOOK PART IN DEVIL WORSHIP? “NO”

   7. HAVE YOU EVER ATTENDED A DEVIL WORSHIP CEREMONY IN THE TERRIL/TWIST AREA? “NO”

   9. ARE YOU INVOLVED IN THE MURDER OF THOSE THREE BOYS “NO”

   10. DO YOU KNOW WHO KILLED THOSE THREE BOYS “NO”

   CONCLUSION DECEPTION NOTED

   Well- DE stated and showed no deception when answering the questions concerning ceremonies and devil worship…. yet, JM was lying his butt off? Desception was noted when JM answered these questions, but not DE…. How? why?

   We all understand now that there was no esbat nor satanic worship ceremonies taking place, and no dogs were boiled or legs eaten.
   We all know Vickie Hutchison lied about the “esbat” in the terril/twist area…but Jesse was still “lying his ass off” about these “facts” when he answered truthfully “no”, to these questions? And if those answers to those questions were mistakenly noted as “deceptive” how can we be sure that the questions regarding knowledge of the murders or the boys or the woods were deceptively answered? And what about the 5 questions JM did not answer deceptively “in the opinion” of the examiner? What were these questions?

   –In summation Jesse Misskelly was deceptive when answering 5 questions regarding Satanic witches meetings and when answering questions regarding the woods and the murders-

   yet he was not deceptive in 5 unknown questions and his negative answers to the Satanic questions were deceptive but DE’s neg answers to these same questions were not deceptive….

   Hmmm seems to me there was something amiss with the machine, or with the examiners “Opinions”

   Please keep in mind JM at first denied any knowledge and was called in because of his friendship with JB and DE- and please also keep in mind that JM had called police prior to this to report a strange man, and he had already been helping H , by introducing her to DE and by setting up and attending the meeting with was secretly taped by VH and the police-

   AJMO

   Cont part 3
3. Mom3.0 says:

   February 2, 2012 at 4:01 am

   Part 3
   cont
   #3. Jasons refusal to take a polygraph examination/ although MC passed 2 polygraphs regarding his statements concerning Jasons “confession” to him

   True, this info was not included to my knowledge- it should have been along with any and all pertinent information…but If I were Jason I wouldnt take a polygraph either- certainly not one given by this police dept. and as for MC passing the polys- he did- but as i have already shared I think he was lying and either was doped up or believed his own stories due to his addictions- and JFTR- MC has now came out and said he was a heavy LSD user and he apologized to JB for saying what he said- and even if he passed a poly now regarding this new information I still would not believe him- -

   I am sure “nons” do not care that those 3 guys passed polys concerning their information on T Hobbs-as it should be- polygraphs dont mean diddly squat- right? Afterall VH passed hers too correct?

   AJMO
   cont part 4
4. Mom3.0 says:

   February 2, 2012 at 4:11 am

   Cont part 4
   #4 luminol tests at the crime scene
   true this information was not included to my knowledge- although i disagree that there was “strong” indications of blood present weeks after the crime- The luminol info should
   have been included, and if it was, surely they would have needed to include the error rates and the mishandled testing procedures and the “weeks later” and the chances for false positives, and all the rest of the information regarding animal urine and feces and iron and chemicals and rust and paint and drippage etc etc-

   In summation- any and all information that might have been used regarding the luminol findings was rendered useless when all factors are considered concerning the testing, the amount of time past before testing and all of the mishandling of the testing etc.

   AJMO
5. Mom3.0 says:

   February 2, 2012 at 8:16 am

   Cont part 5

   #5 jessie Misskelly confessed at least 4 times-

   It is true that all of jesses statements were not mentioned, but at least two were- and it is true that each was not looked at in detail- This information and all analysis of these statements should have been included in the films- including the fact that JM continued to lie and that he cont. to get other info wrong- it should also have included the hearing with the judge concerning the defenses questioning the prosecutions handling and treatment of jesse misskelly in an attempt to get him to talk AND to their attempt to get the judge to give misskelly a new attorney all of this which ultimately resulted in the “Bible confession”- such tactics as he was promised a special visit from his girlfriend Susie….-

   http://www.callahan.8k.com/wm3/prefeb22.html
   –
   I could go into great detail about why the bible confession was bogus, as I have in the past, but I will just offer up this information -

   Jessie was wrong in his times and in the places and the details although it is true he did get more information “right” – perhaps this is due to the fact that the prosecution and LE had been visiting with Jesse alone – against the advice of his lawyers- and it should also be noted that during these times alone Jesse was going over what he would testify to when brought in for JB and DEs trials- this included showing Jesse demonstrative aids and holding “mock testimony”, To my understanding- all this info was stated by Stidman in the Feb 22nd hearing -
   When Jesse’s Bible confession times are compared against others recollections it seems to prove out that Jesse was at least an hour behind his times in certain key instances-

   heres part of Stephanie dollars statement:
   BURCH – ON THE 5TH? OKAY, WHERE DID YOU SEE HIM AT 6:30 ON THE 5TH?

   DOLLAR – DOWN HERE AT THE CORNER WHERE THE FIRST STREET YOU CAN COME INTO

   BURCH – THE AUTOMOTIVE SHOP?

   DOLLAR – OKAY, DOWN AT THE STOP SIGN OVER HERE

   BURCH – OKAY

   DOLLAR – I SEEN HIM RIGHT THERE UP IN THAT AREA

   BURCH – WHAT WAS HE DOING?

   DOLLAR – HE STANDING BY A POLICE CAR

   BURCH – A POLICE CAR AT 6:30 ON THE 5TH

   DOLLAR – ON THE 5TH

   BURCH – WAS IT A COUNTY CAR OR STATE CAR DO YOU KNOW?

   DOLLAR – I HAD A REPORT, I HAD TO GO GET MY REPORT, SO I COULD REMEMBER I WORKED THAT DAY, BECAUSE I WASN’T FOR SURE IT WAS THAT DAY, I KNEW I HAD SEEN HIM THAT DAY BUT I WASN’T FOR SURE. SO I WENT UP MARION’S SHERIFF’S OFFICE AND UH, I GOT MY REPORT AND ON IT, IT SAYS 05-05-93 IT SAYS WHAT TIME THE CALL WAS MADE AND WHAT TIME THE POLICE OFFICER ARRIVED AND IT WAS 6:30. BUT I HAD TO CALL THEM LIKE THREE TIMES BECAUSE THE FIRST TIME THEY CAME STRAIGHT TO MY HOUSE AND THEN THEY LEFT AND I CALLED BACK TO TELL THEM I WAS DOWN THE STREET AND HE TOLD ME TO MEET HIM AT THE CORNER AND THEN SEC, THIRD TIME I CALLED THEM WAS THE MAN. A INCIDENT HAD HAPPENED WHERE A LADY HAD SLAPPED MY LITTLE BOY IS THE REASON I HAD TO CALL THE POLICE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

   http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/s_dollar_interview.html

   According to the Bible confession-6:00 went to Vicki H- talked alittle asked about buying liquor gave money she said ill go in a minute-went to house saw her leave and then wait for EW with Carter on sidewalk then went back to Vickies- she got 2 bottles from store- then drank some of Carters EW- then told him he was going to Lakeshore- carried EW in brown papersack inside waist band of his pants- places time of meeting up with DE and JB by the lake in lakeshore at 6:30- tells about route he took to LS- by his aunts house then past Hecks- wrecker shop then went under an overpass and thats when he saw DE & JB by Quintons house at the park/field/lake side- then had to make their way to Robin Hill woods and wait for boys to arrive and then beat them chase them undress them tie them- cut them and do all the perverted sexual stuff and clean up and dispose of all the evidence and bikes and be spotted by NH on the service road and go wrestling and all the rest… doesnt seem possible….

   AJMO
6. Mom3.0 says:

   February 2, 2012 at 8:22 am

   cont part 6
   what was left out of Paradise Lost films- Youtube video-

   My thoughts-

   #6 Alibis changed no solidalibis

   It is true this information was not included in the films it should have been included- and it should have also included the fact DEs alibis were in part collaborated by friends and family- and possibly phone records which were not and could not be obtained at the time-

   It should also include the information that JM’s alibis at first included a collaboration of Narlene Hollingsworth who stated she saw him that night- but she later said she was mistaken- it should also be included that Dennis Carter despite his earlier statements, he testified to Jesse being with him off and on throughout the early evening and he also testified to JM wrestling that night – which was collaborated by several people- although I am unaware of any receipt given, I am sure it is true that none was given for the exact date…

   The movies should also have included this information as well as the info on Jason regarding his alibis- that he was in school all day and that his family and friends collaborated his accounts- as well as several people who saw him at Walmart – in one account as late as 7:30 IIRC- before the times were changed to reflect an earlier time- as for the claims in this youtube video regarding Jason not offering an alibi because the prosecution laid waste to DE’s and JM’s alibis- I disagree- also disagree on the defense advising him not to testify- as the only reason-
   JB mistakenly believed at any moment his team would call him and he also believed his defense would call character witnesses for him, as well as having his family and friends offer up their recollections concerning his alibi- none of this happened – all this information can be found in Jasons rule 37 hearing- as told by Jason and several of his collaborating friends and family and even his teacher

   ajmo
7. Mom3.0 says:

   February 2, 2012 at 8:30 am

   cont part 7

   #7 Evan Williams bottle

   It is true, the movies never included this information- they should have. The you tube video shows a pic of Evan Williams Green label whiskey- the truth is we can not be sure what type of Evan Williams JM supposedly had- In his claims he never described the Evan Williams or the bottle other than to say it was a fifth of EW and that he carried it in a paper sack in the front of his pants-

   If this information was included in the movies then it would have to include the fact that Jessie really never gave an exactlocation he was kindof iffy he said in part:

   Quote
   Q-What did you do with your bottle?
   M-I busted it.

   Q-Where at?

   M-On the side of a like a over pass.

   Q-Where a bridge goes over one of the interstates?

   M-Yea, like coming from I think it is Little Rock that goes under and there is a bridge goes to Memphis.

   Q-and that would have been Evan Williams

   M-Yea
   —
   And according to the prosecution in that Feb 22nd hearing- they did locate a broken bottle “after searching the underpasses of West Memphis” locating this supposed bottle “in the exact location” where JM had indicated… yet, they went to several overpasses- and finally located a broken bottle under one, not necessarily the one near Walmart- because it stands to reason, they would look there first, correct- seeing how JM hinted toward it being there…then after locating this broken bottle- which must not have clearly looked like EW and certainly could not be read as Evan Williams clearly on the label, as they went to a liquor store and spent “the better part of an hour” trying to match it up to an EW bottle- which I suppose they finally did- but an hour? Gee- I guess it wasnt an easy match and must have come down to more of an interpretation than an actual match…

   “At that point we got in our vehicles, and one of the things to corroborate his client’s statement was to determine if there was an Evan Williams whiskey bottle under an overpass in West Memphis.

   To quote Mr. Stidham, I believe at that time, “If we can find a bottle like he says, then that will convince me that it happened.” At 9:30 or 10:00 at night we drive — ten o’clock in the evening — we proceed, the four of us, to roam underneath the overpasses of West Memphis and lo and behold find a broken bottle in the location indicated by his client.

   We then take the bottle to a local liquor store where we proceeded to spend the better part of an hour matching the bottle with certain items, and lo and behold it matches with the brand name bottle Mr. Stidham had indicated that we should be looking for in the first place.

   At that point Mr. Stidham says that wasn’t good enough to convince him.”

   –
   Speaking of that EW bottle, and that liquor store- why wasnt VH asked about exactly what kind of EW she purchased? Why wasnt Dennis Carter asked about this? Why wasnt the liquor store checked for receipts or security footage? Hmm, too much time passed you say?- Well it seems both the prosecution and the defense knew of Vicki Hutchison buying this liquor for the boys way back when, because the defense attempted to ask Dennis Carter about it at trial and the prosecution objected- and warned of opening the door to drug and alcohol usage– to which the defense declined to go further-

   http://www.callahan.8k.com/wm3/dcarter.html

   Q: Do you remember if you went wrestling that night?
   A: Yes, sir. I did.
   Q: Do you remember who went?
   A: Jessie, Freddy, Johnny, and me.
   Q: Is that all that went?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: You sure that’s all that went, or what?
   A: I think – there could be missing more people.
   Q: Okay. Did you all go wrestling several different times?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: Why do you remember this night that you went wrestling?
   A: Cause I remember – I did say in my statement that I didn’t remember going that day, and then I started thinking about Jim McNease and that brought my – you know.
   Q: So it was the conversation with Jim McNease that really ties this down for you?
   A: Yes.
   Q: That’s your point of reference?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: Now, do you remember giving a statement to the police on, um, looks like it was June 22nd? Maybe – no – there was two different – on June 9th. Sorry. One statement – it looks like the police interviewed you twice. Do you remember that?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: Do you remember telling – do you remember talking to the police?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: Have you thought since then about what you told them?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: What’s your opinion as to whether you were correct?
   A: I wasn’t correct.
   Q: Are you sure?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: You understand you’re under oath now?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: Has what happened on May 5th become an important day to think about or remember?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: Are you positive that what you’re testifying today under oath is correct?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: Now I want to ask you, do you know Vicki, Vicki Hutcheson?
   A: Yes, sir.
   Q: She ever bought you any alcoholic beverages?
   A: Yes, sir, a lot of times.

   DAVIS: Your Honor. Your Honor, I object. This question’s totally improper. I ask the jury be admonished to even disregard he asked it. That’s totally improper.

   CROW: Your Honor, that goes to the credibility of Mrs. Hutcheson.

   DAVIS: Your Honor, if he wants to open the door as to alcohol, drugs, things of that nature, we’ll be glad to jump in there with him.

   THE COURT: You want to open that door?

   CROW: I’ll withdraw the question, your Honor. One second. Nothing further.

   I bet you are wondering exactly how many types of EW there are? And I bet your wondering why noone, especially the prosecution asked JM to state exactly what type he had me too= so I did some research:

   Evan Williams Black Label, 86 proof
   Evan Williams Green Label, 80 proof
   Evan Williams White Label, 100
   Evan Williams Red Label, 101 proof
   Evan Williams 1783, 86 proof
   Evan Williams Honey Reserve, 70 proof
   Evan Williams Cherry Reserve, 70 proof

   This link describes each and shows a picture of the bottles- http://www.bourbonenthusiast.com/forum/DBvd.php?id=238&task=displaybottling

   Speaking of bottles, I was able to locate a 1992 EW black label (the most common) Evan Williams Whiskey, on ebay- notice how similar it is to Jack Daniels, but please be sure to note that it is distinctive if the label was intact in anyway- which I assume it wasnt- as it took LE “the better part of an hour” to make a match- if this was because no label remained, then it is my belief no match could be made, rather just a guess- as the bottles themselves are NOT that different or distinctive
   Heres the link please compare:

   http://tinyurl.com/7sgrejt

   and
   http://tinyurl.com/89oen2s

   AJMO
8. Mom3.0 says:

   February 2, 2012 at 8:37 am

   Part 8 cont-

   My thoughts on the Youtube video-

   # 8 The shoelaces

   Its true IIRC, this information was not included in the films it should have been-
   Meaning that the shoelaces were from the boys own shoes- the other one was described as long and coming from an adult sized shoe- IIRC it appeared to be cut-

   It is also true that JB ‘s muddy boots were confiscated, and these boots did not have the original shoe strings, but I do not think it can be said that these shoes laces were new or when they had been placed in the shoes… or for that matter when and where the boots had become “muddy”

   AJMO
9. Mom3.0 says:

   February 2, 2012 at 8:42 am

   Part 9 cont-
   Video What the paradise films left out
   # 9

   oops it seems that the creator mistakenly left out a # 9 and skips to # 10

   –
   Please forgive any typos or errors-
   I will be back later to post # 10 and so on-
   Thanks for letting me share my thoughts-
   and
   Happy Ground Hog Day…sigh, six more weeks of winter.
10. Xara says:

    February 2, 2012 at 11:46 am

    @ Mom3.0~ You aren’t talking to youself! I check here every day and
    always look forward to reading your post’s.
11. Ragdoll says:

    February 2, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    @ Mom3.0

    I’m here and reading as always!

    For the heavy hearted (perhaps a tad off topic…but sometimes cases like these weigh us down)….

    Heaven Is For Real by Todd Burpo

    It doesn’t matter what your beliefs are, this is truly inspiring. It gave me a little insight, especially about God’s timing, His plans and blazing love for His children. Bottom line….the children we fight for (who are no longer with us) are ~home~.

    I hope it’s ok to share this with y’all, with infinite love.

    http://heavenisforreal.net/
12. Ragdoll says:

    February 2, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    Groundhog day….Don’t shoot the messenger. That critter is cute as heck.

    It’s been a mild winter here, anyways. I can handle this <3
13. Mom3.0 says:

    February 2, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    Thanks xara and ragdoll glad to know someone is out there reading.- But in all honesty, I would still post my thoughts and research even if everyoneelse has moved on- I think it is important to follow through with my journey…..
    I am determined to know everything I can before I reach a conclusion- and I hope others will read and learn somethings too, even if they are just passing time until Blinks 3rd installment- I know we are all eager to read it.

    I made a couple of mistakes -
    The Evan Williams bottle I found on ebay was bought in 1993- and as it is clearly marked- it was 90 proof

    http://tinyurl.com/7sgrejt

    I cant help but wonder what “items” they were trying to match up- and what helped them to finally guess/conclude that it was a match?….why did no one take pics, and if they did, what remnants were left?
    Were these bottle fragments sent to the distributor- to find out if the bottles matched- why did no one think to question Dennis carter and ask him if he still had the bottle- as jesse did say two bottles were purchased and he had been drinking from DC bottle before heading off with his own….and why wasnt VH prosecuted for contributing to the delinquency of minors which led to 3 murders, and why wasnt she asked to supply them with receipts or at least with the name of the liquor store where she purchased these bottles, then follow-up to a trip to the store to question the manager/owner??
    IDK

    AJMO
14. Mom3.0 says:

    February 2, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    Part 10
    My thoughts on youtube video “What Paradise Lost Left Out”

    #10 The great Dane

    True the supposed killing of the Great Dane was not included in the documentaries- — perhaps it is because Damien did not show any deception in the poly when asked about the killing of dogs and cats…remember?

    All this info should have been included and each “witness” should have been interviewed, and all residents of the trailer park should have been asked about the GD- and the owner should have been able to testify against DE- Yep witnesses needed to be included, starting with Jasons little 12/13 yearold cousin, Joe bartoush

    http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/joehb.html

    Statement of: Joe Houston Bartoush, Jr.
    Route 2 Box 767 Lakeshore

    DOB **-**-80 ***-****

    On 10-27-92 I was at Lakeshore Trailer Park with Damien Echols when he killed a Black Great Dane. The dog was already sick and he hit the dog in the back of the head. He pulled the intestines out of the dog and started stomping the dog until blood came out of his mouth. He was going to come back later with battery acid so that he could burn the hair and skin off of the dog’s head. He had two cat skulls, a dog skull and a rat skull that I already knew about. He kept these skulls in his bedroom at Jack Echols house in Lakeshore. He was trying to make the eyeballs of the dog he killed pop out when he was stomping. Damien had a camoflouge survival knife to cut the guts out of the dog with. This statement was written by Det. Ridge at my request.

    This statement was completed at 2:07 PM on the 14 day of June 1993.

    Witness: Det. B. Ridge
    X Joe Bartoush(Signature of person giving voluntary statement)

    Witness: Hubert B. Bartoush

    http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/heatherc2.htm

    Heather Cleat says DE told her that he once stuck a stick in a dogs eye and then jumped on it and then burned it.

    http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/blh.html

    there was a big black Great Dane Dog at lakeshore
    that I saw on the trail over the Bridge to the right as you
    go over the bridge it was Dead It’s intestines was strung out
    of his butt A boy named Adam told me he heard Damien did it.
    Adam’s last name is Phillips he lives in lakeshore

    —
    Curiously, there is no record of the police having interviewed, much less questioned, Adam Phillips.- Which is rather troubling as Adam Phillips name was given by Matt as a possible alibi witness for the times between around 8-8:30

    Matthew stated Jason went over to Adam Phillips’ home at “around 8, 8 about 8:20 or 8:30” where he “brought a tape from him for $4.00 dollars and he came home”—

    Ps please note that the times do not seem to be adding up -
    How could these 3 young men abduct, taunt and tie up, beat- molest and mutilate then kill these 3 little boys-
    The boys were missing by 6:30 correct?
    Jesse was still in his neighborhood at 6:30 remember?

    –
    PS In closing lets review The Great Dane story, through the witnesses- according to JBartoush, Damien killed a sick black Great Dane- and stomped on it and pulled its intestines out, and wanted to burn it w/battery acid..

    But the next witness HC, says DE said he stuck a stick in the eye and stomped on it and burned it, not a great dane, just a dog and there was no mention of killing it…

    The other witness says there was once a Great Dane in the trailer park and he saw it dead with its intestines coming out its butt…and Adam Phillips told him that heard that DE did it..

    Well, it seems to be nothing more than rumors and hearsay -as I sincerely doubt that DE pulled the intestines out of a dogs ass…
    and I sincerely doubt that he stomped on the dog to make its eyeballs pop out especially if he wanted the skull, stomping on it would damage the sjkull, and so would hitting it on the back of the head as J Bartoush claims DE did…

    I sincerely doubt that DE was discouraging any of these rumors- he thrived on negative attention and he had a gross sense of humor-

    Great Danes are huge, expensive dogs- if someones Marmaduke was missing and killed why were no reports made? Why didnt LE ask JBartoush to take them to the area where the dog was, as the rest of the bones would have been there, DE did not take them- right?

    FWIW, I think a dog died- and I think it did have its intestines out its butt, and I think it is possible DE came upon the carcass, and poked it with a stick, and stuck a stick in the dead dogs eye- and wanted the skull as decoration, but I do not think it is possible that he pulled the intestines free from a murdered/stomped Great Dane through its butt- and as the rumor morphed, wore them around his shoulders…

    AJMO
15. Mom3.0 says:

    February 2, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Part 11
    My thoughts on youtube video “What Paradise Lost Left Out”

    #11 The necklace

    It is true this information was cut from the films- This information should have been included, along with any and all pertinent info regarding the collection/investigating of this evidence as well as the testing -and the fact that this evidence was not brought forth until both sides had already rested and it should also have included that there were definite questions regarding the chain of custudy of this evidence, as who knows if it was properly sealed and handled and secured…

    It is also true that this evidence was not a definite match to anyone -except DE- the other blood alpha type could possibly be a match to Jason Baldwin and to one of the victims, Stevie Branch—and ALSO it could be a match to *11 % of the population*

    these films should also have included the info that DE was wearing this necklace along with the trench at the s/rink- days after the murder, and it should also be noted that he also wore this necklace to the police station when he was ultimately arrested-

    AJMO

    One quick correction Mom3.0-

    DE was not wearing that necklace when he was arrested, he was wearing a pentagram necklace he bought at the mall a week earlier. Jason Baldwin had been wearing it, DE gave it to him.
    B
16. Mom3.0 says:

    February 2, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    part 12
    My thoughts on youtube video “What Paradise Lost Left Out”

    # 12 Exhibit 500

    It is true this info was not included in the films- it should have been and if it was then it should also include the information that this was brought to light to show mitigating circumstances which is standard procedure when a person is in danger of forfieting their life as the ultimate punishment.

    This information should also have include the fact that at least one of the doctors felt DE was responding well to treatment and all the doctors felt he was well enough to go home- and it should also have been noted that although there are 500 pages some of it is duplicates and rehashing of old information by varying doctors who all had different interpetations of DE and his illnesses and diagnosis and behaviors etc- it should also be noted that one doctor encouraged DE to continue writing and drawing-
    as for the snip that were shown in this YT video-

    “Staff reported that Damien and Deanna planned to have a baby and sacrifice it ”

    Actually this was just a runor that was supposedly related by Deanna herself- this is not a fact- and heres somethingelse you know that drawing that we were all trying to figure out if it was a baby lying sacrificed in a cemetery with a rattle?

    well it turns out this was not even a drawing done by damien it was drawn by deanna- and i think now that that “rattle” is just a poorly drawn shovel- and the body is just of someone, not a baby and not a child.

    http://callahan.8k.com/images/damiene/4tombstone_drawing.JPG

    the video goes on
    damien knocked a kid down and licked the blood from his arm
    well it should also be noted that there were several interpretations of this event and as to the whys of this event all of them should have been included.
    No remorse, no compassion, cool and distant, displays rage ,has blow ups- shows impulsive hostility??

    well lots of teens are the same they show no remorse- any parent of even the best well mannered loving emotionally stable teen knows that their little angel can display no signs of remorse or compassion- and all can attest to the fact that all teens want power, and control and manipulate to get it- and all can attest to the fact that all teens fantasize about revenge and retribution and all the rest and some even “blow-up “and seem to go off in rages for no reason, and only calm down after having acted out-its common-

    Doers anyone remember the cartoon “animaniacs” and the short “katy kaboom”?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWcNcJuTHVo

    As for the threats to his family, yep he made them and he never acted on them- and also it must be noted that despite having scratched the face of his rival – he never pulled his eyes out or beat the crap out of anyone-

    interest in witchcraft and all the rest big deal so what he was also interested in Shakespeare and in becoming a priest and an artist and a horror writer so what? he wanted to influence peoples minds and he hated the hum,an race? yeah okay so what- who doesnt at times?

    two classes of people wolves and sheep- yep most people who have been victimized or who feel bullied at one time or another feel much the same so what?

    wants to remembers and wants to influence the world-who doesnt as a teen?

    talks of rituals and demonology and drinking blood of WILLING not ruling participants/sexual partners so what lots of people have strange beliefs and practices and fetishes and some like to say they do for shock value but most are not murders….

    feels like God- yep he was one strange kid- says a spirit of a murdered domestic violence victim is sharing his body- him he must have some compassion then right since he obviosly can relate to a woman who has brutalized and terrorized
    talks to spirits and demons through rituals? hmm so what? lots of people say this and believe this who are we to judge another persons belief system- have you seen or spoken to God lately how about the saints or a dearly departed love one?— Do you pray?

    The Catholic Mass is a ritual in which the Body and blood of Christ are consumed in remembrance and as a sacrament- Are all Catholics crazy cannibal murderers?

    So yes this info should have been included in the films,- along with all pertinent info-
    AJMO
    Peace
    The End
    Here is the link to the wm3 truth site and the vid
    http://wm3truth.com/2012/01/youtube-video-what-paradise-lost-left-out/
17. Mom3.0 says:

    February 2, 2012 at 11:19 pm

    hi Blink thanks for taking the time to write:
    One quick correction Mom3.0-

    DE was not wearing that necklace when he was arrested, he was wearing a pentagram necklace he bought at the mall a week earlier. Jason Baldwin had been wearing it, DE gave it to him.
    B

    —

    Im sorry Blink, I was unaware of this, as I was basing my thoughts on the video clip and the defense lawyers words (bad idea? J/k)
    Here is the clip and the part in question begins art 3:40 -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKnGYZfuBBQ&feature=related

    IF you wouldnt mind, could you please direct me to the correct info and evidence sheet etc so I can get my facts straight?

    Thank you
    AJMO

    snipped:

    DAMIEN WAS WEARING A NECKLACE THAT HE CLAIMED THAT HE HAD JUST BOUGHT AT THE MALL OF MEMPHIS ON THE SATURDAY BEFORE THIS INTERVIEW. THE NECKLACE HAD A PENTAGRAM AS A PENDANT THAT DAMIEN EXPLAINED MEANT SOME TYPE OF GOOD SYMBOL FOR THE WICCA MAGIC THAT HE WAS IN.

    http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/dwe.html

    wearing it in this image, first interview at the house:

    http://callahan.8k.com/images2/exhibits/State_Exhibit_100.jpg

    Ok, as far as I got, it is my bedtime, gonna take me a bit to get back there, lol
    B
18. Scott H says:

    February 4, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Oh mom, what are we going to do with you? Yes we were all teens, we understand the angst that accompanies that time in our life. Please though, don’t attempt to correlate sucking blood from another persons open wound as run of the mill behavior. I knew plenty of troubled kids at that age, not a single one ever behaved in such a manner. I am amazed at what you explain away, if I’m not mistaken, you said multiple times that you are not a supporter correct? You seem to respond very much like a supporter, i.e., regardless of Damien’s past, documented psych history, horrible behavior, comments etc. you seem to always come to his defense. I’m not using the above as proof that Echols is guilty. I see it as a separate matter, he constantly lies, even in current interviews. He was and still is, a horrible person. Please stop acting like he was a normal teen, he wasn’t, http://wm3truth.com/2011/08/damien-echols-self-diagnosis/
    
    Scott- I am very protective of my Mom3.0, and it annoys her and she prefers to respond to her own posts, so I am not going to comment in that regard. But I do want to say Mom 3.0 is very specific to say that she is open to the fact this crime WAS committed by the WM3, but that in her estimation it does not meet the threshold of beyond a reasonable doubt. As presented, I might agree with her, but it is my personal finding that Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jesse Misskelley murdered these children, and I feel strongly that an evidentiary hearing would not have netted a new trial in the first place, but if it had, would have resulted in convictions of all 3.

    However, I will agree with you that I do feel that Mom and some others are very dismissive of background psych evidence that is irrefutable- and presented as fact by his own lawyers to mitigate guilt.

    IT DID NOT. It is maddening to me for this reason alone, that if people would remove the emotion out of the situation, they would see that multiple trained medical professionals, probation staff, relatives and friends were CLEARLY AFRAID of both Damien Echols, and it was not unfounded.

    Moreover, I would offer that their is no evidence Damien Echols WAS considered disabled or received a payment from the state of Arkansas, so I question the good faith of that position to the court in the first place. All of the “had we known about it we would have considered a competency issue” affadavits were enough to force a competency hearing. I am floored not one attorney asked to see a cancelled check or proof of claim. I mean, he was declared indigent- no mention of SS income- hello?

    Then throw in the fact that apparently prison has drastically improved Jessie Misskelley’s mental and cognitive capacities. If I had to hear “borderline” retarded one more time, as to try and get his confessions tossed, omg- ridiculous. It is not lost on anyone that as convinced as his counsel was that he had the faculties of a 7 year old, they NEVER sought independent evaluation as to his capacity to accept the plea bargain that let him free, and that it was all in or out, no independent deals.

    Again, I question how such a “deal” is even legal. It burns my chaps that regardless of whether one believes in their guilt or innocense, let’s a prosecutor who had NOT EVEN COMPLETED the reading of JUAT THE APPELLATE file can swing a deal like this. Here is the other thing- the judge never even ruled on the juror misconduct as specified in the order. You got that? Unreal.

    Translation: every person on this blog knows the case better than the man who set these three free after 9 convictions.

    No pre-sentence report, no victims impact statement, no consult with the victims families.

    If I hear one more person say that the state won out because they would have sued them if they were acquitted I am going to hurl. Sue them for what? They spent $10 million to prove their innocence, and they could not- how the hell were they thinking they would prove wrongful prosecution which requires intent or negligence?

    B
19. Scott H says:

    February 4, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    Blink, I realize mom likes to say that she is open to the possibility of the 3′s guilt. It just seems that to me, short of Domini Teer coming forward with a video recording of the actual murders, Mom, and people who openly support them refuse to see what you and I and others convinced they are guilty seem to be able to see. That if ever a case existed where lex parsimoniae should apply (Occam’s Razor) then this is surely it. What would have to have been pure coincidence for them to be innocent, ( failed alibis, confessions, evan williams bottle, jason’s return of ice axe, 3 victims, 3 suspects, the list goes on and on) is so highly unlikely I don’t see how a rational person who has studied this case, and obviously mom qualifies as such, can still hold doubt, it baffles me.
    
    Again, I believe the distinction is being made between prosecutable under the law and guilt.

    I cannot tell you how many times and in how many cases this is a very real quandry.

    Wait until I cover Jody Arias. OYE.

    I do not have the answer as to why people flat out refuse to entertain the obvious reverse angle questions. I suspect at the end of the day in this case we are all supposed to figure out what our individual biases are that stand in the way of our critical thinking skills. I say that regardless of which side of the fence one finds themselves.

    Does anyone really think a remorseful or contrite Damien Echols is filling his Amazon list with books on Buddahism? Er, no. Vampires, Witches, Werewolves, blah blah. Can someone explain the dichotomy of his new religion of “no suffering” with an avid interest in nothing but.

    B

    I hate this case.
20. vicki says:

    February 4, 2012 at 9:16 pm

    He tells the truth afraid of the electric chair because he IS GUILTY AS SIN.”Wouldn’t you be afraid of it if you had killed 3 kids?
    “”18″”or not who gives a shit a murderer is a murderer!!!!!!!!!!!!
21. Flora says:

    February 4, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    An aside: Many; many thanks to Mom 3.0; have been reading many of your posts
22. Tom Shea says:

    February 4, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    These guilty scum should fry!
23. Mom3.0 says:

    February 5, 2012 at 2:54 am

    Hello ScottH-
    Nice to see you return

    You wrote in part:
    “Oh mom, what are we going to do with you?”

    ScottH-
    There is nothing to be done with me, other than to actually take the time to read through my research and thoughts and objectively ask yourself if what you “see” which I can not -is nothing more than your opinion and interpretation on an investigation plagued with substantial mistakes and a trial and case which were built upon wrong or questionable evidence- wrong motives, wrong experts, Poor witnesses or lies- ( VH, NH etc) and so on… which in truth, may lead a reasonable person no choice but to see reasonable doubt.

    There is nothing to be done, other than for you to simply point out actual evidence of guilt-

    The Evidence

    “possible” fiber evidence, which is not a definite match and which is “consistent“ with myriads of other garments and items owned by thousands of people- including possibly the LEO on the scene, or the parents own items etc.

    Occam’s razor would point toward this fiber evidence which was found on the victims clothing and bodies as being innocent secondary transfer– from well-meaning, but ill-trained LEO, and innocent secondary transfer from parents, friends and people at scene like water works people etc… you know like the possible Hobbs hair, and the possible African American hair, and the possible Jacoby hair-

    Unfortunately, because this fiber evidence was not ruled out as consistent with any and all people who had come into contact with these boys that day, we can not determine beyond a reasonable doubt that this fiber evidence points to DE JB and JM to the exclusion of all others.- especially when we take into account that these fibers which were said to be consistent- did not even come from the 3s own belongings- they were consistent with a toilet seat cover, a mothers robe, a well-used green blanket kept in the living room, and a little boys Granimal shirt. So Occams razor would have to “cut” on the side of innocent secondary transfer or double transfer as it were, in the case of the robe and the GAshirt, and the blanket– right?

    Evidence- the DNA evidence which could also match 11% of the population.- and the blood evidence on JM shirt

    Considering this DNA evidence is from a necklace which both DE and JB had owned and both had worn, and considering IF they did commit this crime they were very thorough in the cleanup except for these tiny specks of blood-from a piece of evidence which has very questionable chain of custody issues- Occams razor states that we must conclude that the easiest and most likely conclusion is that the blood evidence found on the pendant did in fact come from the owners themselves and it was due to innocent reasons as the cleanup would dictate-…Right?

    and as for that blood on Jesses shirt which matched his own and/or Mikes- Occam s razor states it is Jms blood, as it was his shirt and, all of the victims shirts and clothing held no blood evidence and the scene was completely cleared of blood, enough so, that police first surmised that the ditch was a dump spot and not the primary crime scene- so taking this info into account- Occam’s razor must cut on the side of this shirt containing the owners own blood for innocent reasons-

    evidence
    the possible blue candle wax- which no tests results can be found- and which was said to be like candle wax- but findings were never documented… and where was this ‘candle wax’? Possibly on the second-hand book from the public library? possibly on a little victims shirt. Which victim? Which shirt? Was the wax on the inside or the out side of this garment? And what of the blue candles? –

    Can we be positive that *if* there was blue candle wax on the shirt that it came from the candles of Domini – or can we be sure they came from DE supposed candles for which their are no pics?- Or can we surmise that like the fiber evidence- this candle wax can not be determined to match any candle, let alone a candle belonging to the accused to the exclusion of all others?

    Why was there ‘candle wax’ on any shirt?- Jesse never mentioned it- infact, according to Jesses statements, the boys were beat unconscious while clothed- their clothes are not bloody- and if they were beat while clothed- wouldnt the ‘candle wax’ have preserved the blood evidence? Afterall, the ‘candle wax’ didnt come off in the water, right?
    If it were candle wax found on one of the victims shirts, the victims shirts were used to quiet them,by holding it in/over their mouths correct? If it was Stevies or Mikes or Chris’ they were bleeding and there was injuries to their mouths- some were from the poor little guys biting the insides of their own cheeks- why is there no blood on any of the boys shirts? Why is their no trace evidence captured in the wax on the shirt, you know, prints or hair etc.?

    So when reviewing all this info– Occams razor must cut to the side of: there was no blue candle wax found on a shirt of any victim- and despite DT or DE having owned candles- it does not lead one to follow the razor toward quilt- as the candles were common, correct?

    In addition, Occams razor also points toward JM not “confessing” as the evidence does not bolster his stories.

    Not even that Evan Williams bottle as
    1. it was never determined exactly where JM threw the bottle-
    2. it was never determined exactly what type of EW whiskey he was said to have had.
    3. it was never determined exactly what underpass it was found under and what exactly remained of this bottle- nor was it determined by the distributor or the manufacturer, or an expert, as an EW bottle and certainly not THE bottle.
    4. Occams razor states that a bottle found under an overpass which took several searches under several underpasses to locate, and said remnants of said bottle took an hour to possibly make a match by untrained examiners – is simply just a common bottle found under an overpass at some time before Feb 1994- not evidence even circumstantially pointing towards JM telling the truth or to these 3 being the culprits.

    and speaking of just such possible evidence, we have the luminol evidence- which is questionable, but if held up as unrefutable evidence, does not point toward anything more than SOMEONE having killed these children-

    Despite what you wish JM confessions stated- he did not give any information that would point to the area where the blood would be found- in fact, he said they were laying on the bank- which bank? The one by the really deep water? The one that was closest to little Mike? The one that was closest to Chris and Stevie? The one closest to the pipe that was as big as a leg?? The one closest to the field? Which field? Where little Mike supposedly ran away and was captured??

    Which field? The one near Blue Beacon? The one with the billboard? The one near the MF apartments? Where? Despite what you wish to believe regarding Jesses “confessions” bolstering the evidence of blood- in truth, it does not- as I said, he said the boys were beaten and cut while clothed, this is not supported by the evidence…he said they were silenced with their shirts, the absence of blood evidence does not bolster that “fact” etc.

    Because I have researched EXTENSIVELY and I am unable to conclude guilt beyond a reasonable doubt…
    Does not mean I am a supporter of anyone, other than the victims and their families, and despite what it may seem like in this case, I am also an avid supporter of LE..-

    I am a supporter of truth and justice. Im sorry if my failure to “see what you see” puts you out, or baffles you, or forces you to question my integrity.

    The fact of the matter is ScottH, despite what you and others may see as irrefutable proof of guilt- I see as questionable.

    Cont part 2
24. Mom3.0 says:

    February 5, 2012 at 3:14 am

    Part 2 cont-

    ScottH,
    I am a critical thinker, or I should say I try very hard to be–

    I do not go by experience alone, I go by facts and I look at all sides and all factors

    As a teacher, as a mother, as a concerned citizen- I worry about what was presented in court as “the truth” and as evidence of guilt- I am very concerned about the mistakes that were made in this investigation/trial/case – and there were Many

    I am worried that these well-meaning/hard-working LEO and prosecutors and even defense team and judge made too many mistakes which in all likelihood could have led to a faulty conclusion of guilt based upon bogus fear-driven theories, police ineptitude, poor rulings, lack of experience- and blind fear/hate driven rumors passing as “truth” and evidence of guilt.

    Let me ask you this- in all honesty, would you want this evidence to be used to illustrate guilt for your own children, family or friends?

    In all honesty wouldnt you want a person like me on their jury, rather than a person like the jury foreman, or any gungho “non” or
    “supporter”-
    I would- and
    DE JB and JM deserved the same.

    You wrote in part:

    “Yes we were all teens, we understand the angst that accompanies that time in our lives..”
    ” I knew plenty of troubled kids at that age, not a single one ever behaved in such a manner.”

    ScottH- I think you may have been a very sheltered individual with very well-mannered friends then-

    You wrote:
    “Please though, don’t attempt to correlate sucking blood from another persons open wound as run of the mill behavior.”

    FYI Scott, I think you might be surprised at how widely accepted this behavior can be, and who and under what circumstances someone can see this as acceptable-at least its certainly not a sign of a murderer to be anyway

    First, have you ever heard of the saying “licking your wounds” have you ever sucked the blood from a cut? If not, your mommy probably did it for you, as it has been common practice from the beginning of time – Mommies kiss our wounds- and besides the placebo effect- can you guess why a mommy would do that? Because in olden days the mouth was thought to be a way to cleanse the wounds-
    When injured, such as During battles, it was not uncommon for our comrades to “help” by licking our wounds, to keep them free of infection.

    Have you ever heard of a bris, ScottH?
    “This practice is part of the ritual of circumcision and it is called “Metzitza”.

    The source for Metzitza at a Brit is from the Talmud1 and is stated as the practiced law in the Code of Jewish Law.

    It is explained that drawing out blood prevents the blood from clotting and coagulating under the skin, which may result in inflammation and swelling.

    The Code of Jewish Law does not explicitly mention how Metzitzah is to be performed. There is actually great debate amongst the Rabbis (today, as well as throughout the ages) regarding the details of Metzitza. As a result, some Mohelim use a tube, and some do it by mouth”

    Also
    snipped-

    “Some religious rituals and symbols seemingly mirror hematophagy, such as in the transubstantiation of wine as the blood of Jesus Christ during Christian Eucharist. Psychiatric cases of patients performing hematophagy also exist. Sucking or licking one’s own blood from a wound is also a behavior commonly seen in humans, and in small enough quantities is not considered taboo”

    “It is second nature for some people to do this”

    It is so common, infact, that ehow .com Has a page which discusses the issues-
    “It is second nature for some people to suck on a minor cut, scrape or scratch. And though we may not have the slightest idea why this is instinctual, we do it for one reason: We want to be healed.”
    The idea of “licking one’s wounds” comes from watching animals licking their wounds after surviving an attack. As civilized humans, however, we sometimes have better options for meeting our needs….. Saliva contains nitric oxide, lactoferrin and lactoperoxidase, which are all effective in protecting cuts and scrapes from bacteria…Depending on the setting, licking your wound may be considered rude and make others feel uncomfortable, especially if you are licking someone else’s wound.

    ScottH, have you ever tried to act like a big bad AZZ to get out of something or to save face ScottH? Well, many people have, especially teens… Have you ever been in a physical altercation as an adolescent? If not,that is good- but some teens are – infact some have no choice – these kids often recieve poor advice from their peers and even their parents etc.-

    Like this helpful advice below, Which I have seen “play out” in many a school hallway:

    “You gotta be fierce! A total psycho. Be relentless, ruthless and downright savage! And be quick, light on your feet, it’s the only physical advantage you have.
    If you get knocked down, just look her in the eye and SMILE. No matter how bad your hurting, pretend you love it, lick off your own blood and go at her again. Just keep smiling, don’t cry, don’t back down.
    If you don’t beat her, at least you’ll freak her out enough so she’ll stop bothering you”

    http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070106172444AA786b1

    Have you ever watched a movie ScottH- where the main character licks the blood off his knife, or from the face or hands of his opponent, himself or his dying friend?

    Have you ever heard of BJ “The Prodigy” Penn? No, well “For the better part of this decade, BJ “The Prodigy” Penn has captivated the ever-growing UFC audience with intense rivalries, brutal knockouts, slick submissions, championship fights and even some blood licking.”

    As I have already pointed out in Catholicism, blood is sacred, Jesus’ Blood. During Mass the Transubstanuation takes place. They drink the Blood of Jesus Christ and eat his flesh in a Holy Sacrament. Kissing wounds is also sacred, Jesus’ 5 Holy Wounds-.

    Snipped:

    St. Bernard of Clairvaux

    It is related in the annals of Clairvaux that St. Bernard asked Our Lord which was His greatest unrecorded suffering, and He answered: “I had on My Shoulder while I bore My Cross on the Way of Sorrows, a grevious Wound which was more painful than the others, and which is not recorded by men. Honor this Wound with thy devotion, and I will grant thee whatsoever thou does ask through its virtue and merit. And in regard to all those who shall venerate this wound, I will remit to them all their venial sins, and will no longer remember their mortal sins”

    ——
    Saints Gertrude the Great and Mechtilde

    Jesus revealed to St. Gertrude that if any one of the following short prayers is repeated five times in honor of the Five Holy Wounds of the Lord, while spiritually kissing the Wounds devoutly and adding some prayers or good works, and offering them through the Sacred Heart of Jesus, they will be as acceptable to God as the most arduous devotion:

    ‘Jesus, Savior of the World, have mercy on me. You to Whom nothing is impossible, bestow mercy to the wretched. ‘

    ‘O Christ, Who by Your Cross, hast redeemed the world, hear us.’

    ‘The Lord is my strength and my glory; He is my salvation.’

    ‘Hail Jesus, my loving Spouse. I salute You in the ineffable joys of Your Divinity; I embrace You with the affection of all creatures, and I kiss the Sacred Wound of Your love.’

    One day, before the Feast of the Ascension, St. Gertrude repeated the following salutation five thousand, four hundred and sixty-six times:

    ‘Glory be to Thee, sweetest, most gentle, most benign, sovereign, transcendent, effulgent, and ever-peaceful Trinity, for the roseate wounds of Jesus Christ, my only Love! ‘

    After completing these salutations, Our Lord Jesus appeared to her, more beautiful than the angels, bearing golden flowers on each Wound. With a serene countenance and tender charity, He said, “Behold in what glory I now appear to you. I will appear in the same form to you at the hour of your death, and will cover all the stains of your sins, and adorn you with a glory like that with which you have adorned My Wounds by your salutations. All of those also who salute my Wounds with the same devotion shall receive the like favor.”

    So you see Scott, although you see Damiens blood licking as evil or weird, to some, they would see it as common- certainly nothing more than an adolescent acting like a bad azz …

    It all depends on a persons perspectives.
    AJMO same as last post

    CONT Part 3
25. Mom3.0 says:

    February 5, 2012 at 3:32 am

    Part 3
    ScottH
    you wrote in part:

    “I am amazed at what you explain away”

    ScottH-
    I am not explaining anything “away” nor am I “dismissing” any of these behaviors or the psych evaluations etc-

    Where you see all of these things as a blueprint to a child-murderer to be, I see them as a snapshot of a moment in time- which must be looked at- but in no way should be used to illustrate guilt or as a means to illustrate a propensity to murder three children in cold blood – whether it be the theory of a mixedup dabbling devil worshiping ritual murder, or a thrill kill which resulted from bullying escalating to triple murder.

    The fact is ScottH- Damien Echols never acted on his threats of violence towards family members- and other than one or two school yard fights- I fail to see evidence that DE was violent or homicidal-

    You wrote in part:
    “if I’m not mistaken, you said multiple times that you are not a supporter correct?”
    “You seem to respond very much like a supporter, i.e., regardless of Damien’s past, documented psych history, horrible behavior, comments etc. you seem to always come to his defense.”

    Yeah Scott- You seem to like things to fall in easily definable categories-

    right =You
    wrong =anyone who disagrees with you

    Black/guilt= intelligent people who can follow the facts without feelings…
    White/innocent= those who are blinded by DE idolization and who are stupidly blinded by misguided feelings

    You have no room for “gray”=meaning any person who has researched and can not see what you see- ie they see reasonable doubt – - NOPE they must be “supporters”

    Lets get this straight, once and for all- I am not coming to Damiens “defense” – and again, just because I do not believe as you do, and I can evaluate the evidence and find myself stuck on the line of possible quilt vs possible mishandled clusterf*ck resulting in reasonable doubt – and because I am also open to the POSSIBILITY that one or more of these 3 may be innocent…– does not mean that I am a “supporter” or a defender of DE JB or JM

    I realize you seem to have no problem in wrongfully categorizing me though- in fact- you seem to be so caught up in being right and viewing anyone who may have a differing opinion than you as a “supporter” you copy and pasted your post from the other thread- to another board where you disrespectfully just substituted my name for “any supporter”-

    Not cool Scott, not cool at all-You seem to only want agreement and kudos from like minded people, not intelligent sharing of opinions and ideas which may differ from your own.

    The fact is- despite your thoughts, Lots of people have documented adolescent psych history and horrible despicable behaviors, and use offensive language or voice hateful comments- that does not mean they have killed anyone or would kill anyone.

    I have worked with many in my life time- I have been privy to stuff that would make most go running for their own mommies- or home to hug their own children tighter…

    So please, dont talk to me as if your opinions, in this instance, -equate to facts or evidence of guilt-

    Because again, the TRUTH is, none of this history or behavior or language means a person is a murderer or has the propensity to commit a murder- it just means as an adolescent they were in need of help and were crass- vulgar- stupid- sickening and devoid of commonsense -which leads inevitably, to a great deal of pain and anguish – and others judgment

    Afterall, Its easy to judge a book by reading only its cover, and even if you read the foreward, without taking the time to actually analyze the text inside and delve deeper to read between the lines – you can still get it wrong

    My point is adolescents are more than their bad behaviors, or their sophomoric, crass, and hateful comments- and more than their questionable histories.

    AJMO

    Cont Part 4
26. Mom3.0 says:

    February 5, 2012 at 3:57 am

    part 4

    Still with me ScottH? I hope so, and I do hope you will stick around. Despite our differing opinions, I do realize like me, you are an advocate for the victims.

    You wrote in part:
    “I’m not using the above as proof that Echols is guilty.”
    But yet you are questioning my thoughts on all of it- I call BS- Scott- as to me, you seem to just that.

    “I see it as a separate matter”
    BS again- it seems you want anything BUT to consider it as a “separate matter” you want and you want ALL others to want this history and behaviors to encapsulate DE and all he was, and all he will ever be- So excuse me for saying this- but that aint right- it isnt right by any standard, let alone one in which we are discussing “evidence” of guilt

    You went on to write:
    “he constantly lies, even in current interviews.”
    Hmm really-? Constantly?- and he does this because? Let me guess, in your view he does it because he killed these 3 boys? IDK if any of that is true- that he is constantly lying and he loies due to the FACT that he is a killer… but most certainly it is true if you are listening to his thoughts and words from a perspective of definite childkiller-

    Me, not having formed a definite conclusion on guilt, I can objectively look at this info and realize that people lie for many reasons most for reasons far less nefarious than being a murderer…

    You wrote:
    “He was and still is, a horrible person.”

    For Petes sake ScottH- although I agree some of his behaviors and comments during the trials etc were atrocious and sickening- I can not say they make him a horrible person- anymore than I can say any of the parents or family members or towns peoples comments and behaviors make them horrible people, just flawed human beings at their worst-

    FTLOG, if Stevies Momma can see it in her heart to forgive this guy for his sickening behaviors for which he has apologized- shouldnt you be able to?
    My goodness, if we were all held to account for our comments and bad/crass behaviors as 16 to 20+ years old or during the most horrendous times of our lives, no matter our ages- God help us all.-

    These comments and behaviors and his “500” do not equate to evidence of a triple child murderer- so *if* he is innocent arent you acting like a “horrible person” yourself?

    According to you, DE sickening behaviors =quilt… although at the same time, JB’s quiet shyness and good-manners also = quilt…at the same time, JM refusing to look up at trail =guilt…. Hmmm if I didnt know any better, Id think no matter what they did or said it will=guilt….

    You wrote:
    “Please stop acting like he was a normal teen, he wasn’t, http://wm3truth.com/2011/08/damien-echols-self-diagnosis/”

    ScottH- what in your view is a normal teen?: In mine, there is no such thing- so therefore I have never attempted to put DE or any kid in the “normal” box.

    I have read all of the WM3Truth site- thanks for the link though, and I think it is an good source for information and commentary- but having said that- just because someone gives their thoughts and opinions does not mean that I must hold those thoughts and opinions in any higher regard than the next commentators.
    as i said, I look at every piece of information and opinion etc , and i weigh it accordingly, all in the hopes of helping Stevie Chris and Mike and their families, in some small way.

    AJMO
    Peace
27. Mom3.0 says:

    February 5, 2012 at 5:09 am

    the end-

    Sorry I was having a hard time posting this one-
    Please excuse any typos or errors-

    ScottH
    Hi again.
    FTR, I dont need an actual video, I am fully capable of reviewing a circumstantial evidence case and reaching a conclusion of guilt-
    However in this case, mostly due to police ineptitude, I am unable to do so.

    Having said that please STOP trying to label me as a supporter and STOP insinuating that I am trying to hide my true feelings as a “supporter” by claiming the difference might be others “openly” support them while I do not do so “openly”…

    You wrote:
    “That if ever a case existed where lex parsimoniae should apply (Occam’s Razor) then this is surely it.”

    I might agree,but please excuse me, but you are choosing to wield occams razor in a way that would support your opinions- as i already illustrated wityh my above thoughts Occams razor could be used by all “sides”

    You wrote:
    “What would have to have been pure coincidence for them to be innocent, ( failed alibis, confessions, evan williams bottle, jason’s return of ice axe, 3 victims, 3 suspects, the list goes on and on) is so highly unlikely”

    –
    I have already painstakenly walked you through how a rational person can view the EW bottle, the iceax, and the confessions- As to the # of three- comeon Scott- even if you are subscribing to the theory there were 3 killers, How can you be sure it was these 3?

    Coincidences?- there are many- take for instance the fact that JB’s blood alpha type is the same as Stevies and JMs alpha type, is the same as little Mikes- although at the same time they are also the same as 11% of the population…

    Coincidences in life are abundant-
    for some they are more frequent than for others and If I were on a jury I certainly wouldnt use their occurrences as evidence…I mean does it really matter how many times in my life the phone rang when I just thought of the person on the other end of the line?, or how many times my favorite song playing on the radio when I was just hoping it would… Coincidences happen- sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad- As a juror, I would not use their abundance or lack there of in my own life as a means to weigh guilt or innocence.

    ALL Just My opinion, which is never any more or less “right” than any other persons
    Peace
28. Mom3.0 says:

    February 5, 2012 at 5:29 am

    Thanks Blink I appreciate your words and your ability to step back, and I value your protection and your thoughts on the evidentary hearing.

    Youn wrote:
    However, I will agree with you that I do feel that Mom and some others are very dismissive of background psych evidence that is irrefutable- and presented as fact by his own lawyers to mitigate guilt.

    Blinky, my friend, I am NOT dismissive of his background and his medical history- I, in fact have said DE needed help and meds etc- but what I also have said is this history and background does not and should not be used, even in hindsight, to illustrate guilt or evidence of the propensity to become a killer..
    Just as i believe this information can not and does not illustrate guilt I also do not believe that it any way goes to a mitigating factor to lesson culpability. Should it be looked at and given its proper weight, sure- as long as it is looked at for what it is.

    You wrote:
    “It is maddening to me for this reason alone, that if people would remove the emotion out of the situation, they would see that multiple trained medical professionals, probation staff, relatives and friends were CLEARLY AFRAID of both Damien Echols, and it was not unfounded.”

    Blink, I am coming from a background in which in order to do my job to the best of my ability- I never was a prisoner to my emotions or feelings-
    I have dealt with kids whose own 500 would scare Hannibal Lector- but just because DEs threats and behaviors scared SOME of his doctors and teachers and his parents at times, does not mean he would ever act on those threats- the threats were designed to provoke a desired response- back off , f-you, leave me alone, let me go live in another state- away from you…

    As for his probation officers fears- please, the guy was an idiot – who was afraid of his own shadow- and actually believed DE was a leader of a dogeating baby sacrificing orgy/esbat holding cult-
    This guy spent most of his time listening to his unnamed “confidential” insiders who told him stories of the leader “Lucifer” and orgies and all the rest- They were pulling his leg and making fun of him- while probably getting paid for their “inside info”

    You wrote;
    “Moreover, I would offer that their is no evidence Damien Echols WAS considered disabled or received a payment from the state of Arkansas, so I question the good faith of that position to the court in the first place.”

    As I have said Blink- it takes alot for SSI to pay out- and regardless of the truth of a claim – it matters not when trying to figure out whether DE was a murderer or not…

    “All of the “had we known about it we would have considered a competency issue” affadavits were enough to force a competency hearing. I am floored not one attorney asked to see a cancelled check or proof of claim. I mean, he was declared indigent- no mention of SS income- hello?”

    Yeah- sickening I agree it sure doesnt seem like any of these lawyers did their best, does it?

    “Then throw in the fact that apparently prison has drastically improved Jessie Misskelley’s mental and cognitive capacities. If I had to hear “borderline” retarded one more time, as to try and get his confessions tossed, omg- ridiculous. It is not lost on anyone that as convinced as his counsel was that he had the faculties of a 7 year old, they NEVER sought independent evaluation as to his capacity to accept the plea bargain that let him free, and that it was all in or out, no independent deals”

    Blink, If I may share some info:
    Iqs are not fixed, this is especially true when speaking of children and adolescents-
    Please see here:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/study-of-the-day-iq-rises-and-falls-during-teenage-years/246917/
    and here
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/oct/19/teenagers-iq-scores-adolescence

    As for Jesse Misskellys mental and cognitive abilities- the truth is we may never know if the diagnosis was correct or how much it effects him as an adult. For you see, nomatter what “disabilities” a person is diagnosed as having, the truth is all have different capabilities- no two people are alike- despite sharing the same diagnosis-

    All have different strengths some have problems learning new tasks or understanding instructions, some may be visual learners, and still others may be auditory learners, or kinesthetic learners each style of learning requires a reformed teaching method to better enable success… others excel in memory and concentration- others have attention issues or other learning disabilities/capabilities separate from their intellectual iq testing …

    Some to not cope with change well, others have a harder time completing tasks and need constant positive reinforcements
    Some exhibit inappropriate behavior with others or have trouble when dealing with other people, which sometimes leads to poor coping skills and may lead to a student leaving school when of age-
    If JM had any of these issues, he may in fact- have excelled in a prison situation where there are smaller classes with less expectations and more structure and a fixed schedule that hardly ever changes…

    I do agree nomatter the case, his defense and teachers etc failed Jesse in this area.

    You wrote:
    “They spent $10 million to prove their innocence, and they could not- how the hell were they thinking they would prove wrongful prosecution which requires intent or negligence?”

    Blink I dont mean to be one that pisses you off, but just because they couldnt prove their innocence, does not mean they in fact are the killers- it becomes harder to prove ones innocence once they have been found guilty in a court of law- despite whether or not it was a wrongful conviction…
    The rest i agree with

    You went on to write:

    “I do not have the answer as to why people flat out refuse to entertain the obvious reverse angle questions. I suspect at the end of the day in this case we are all supposed to figure out what our individual biases are that stand in the way of our critical thinking skills. I say that regardless of which side of the fence one finds themselves.”

    JFTR I am not one of those people that is refusing to entertain any angle- and I agree we all need to make a self check on any biases subconscious or otherwise-

    You wrote:
    “Does anyone really think a remorseful or contrite Damien Echols is filling his Amazon list with books on Buddahism? Er, no. Vampires, Witches, Werewolves, blah blah. Can someone explain the dichotomy of his new religion of “no suffering” with an avid interest in nothing but.”

    Okay, First let me say- that I am perturbed by JB and DE (not sure about JM) having a wish list to which anyone would buy them crap-
    If they want to have a wish list then they should be asking for everyone to send money to the innocence project or somethingelse worthwhile-ETC-

    Does this mean they are guilty? no- having said that- Blink- just because Damien still likes werewolves and vampires and all the rest does not mean he is not a caring human being-

    It just means he enjoys the genre.

    Thanks again blink for letting me share my thoughts and for always being here to teach me a thing or two-

    With much respect and lots of gratitude
    Mom3.0

    I leave you all with some quotes which have always inspired me:

    You can’t base your life on other people’s expectations.

    Stevie Wonder

    Minds ripen at very different ages.

    Stevie Wonder

    “It is a lonely existence to be a child with a disability which no-one can see or understand, you exasperate your teachers, you disappoint your parents, and worst of all you know that you are not just stupid.”
    – Susan Hampshire

    We, the one’s who are challenged, need to be heard. To be seen not as a disability, but as a person who has, and will continue to bloom. To be seen not only as a handicap, but as a well intact human being.
    – Robert M. Hensel

    Peace

    Mom 3.0- Peace and Love to you as Always-

    1. You could never piss me off. You are a critical thinker, and I know that when a person’s core is rooted in compassion and advocacy, I know to respect that individual and their opinions regardless of whether or not it agrees with my own. I know that the challenges you have levied about the mistakes, inconsistencies and injustices in this case alone have are doggedly researched and worthy of consideration.

    2. I feel strongly that your bottom line is really a legal one. In your mind, the three did not receive fair trials, brought on by errors stemming from LE, prosecutors, a jury foreperson and their own attorneys.

    Here is my thing- That argument is valid. I get that. However, it is that same process and same history within the State of Arkansas that allowed them to be freed without the benefit of that second ( or 8th if you count appeals, competency, Rule 37, blah blah) bite at the apple if you will.

    That has made 3 young boys, justiceless and re-victimized, imo. So while you are not convinced of guilt, I have to ask you to concede that while you may feel that the system was justified to free them based on the aforementioned, it was just as erroneous to release them in the manner they did.

    3. We are going to agree to disagree on the medical and psych background on DE. The reality is, no, it does not make him guilty, but it sure as hell makes him a suspect worthy of the top of any detectives list. There is one thing I noted in PL3 that I have to say shocks me that nobody has picked up on yet.

    DE was a dangerous teenager. He was dangerous to others, his family, and himself. This is fact.

    History is replete with examples of the outcomes of people with comparable backgrounds to suggest the best predictor for the future is the past. At the end of the day, if a new trial with new evidence were to compel you to shift your mindset to finding he HAD committed this crime, you would view this differently in an instant. If one believes Misskelley, and I do, or if one day a credible confession from any three of these folks (don’t count that out as ludicrous just yet) surfaces, everyone you are referring to as a crackpot or paranoid (my words) becomes proficient in an instant as well. I respect your work in this area of course, but just because in your experience you have not run into a subject that has a similar psych profile that ends up committing a homicide does not mean many do.

    4. I mentioned the DE library wish list because the subject matter is in direct conflict with his self-professed buddhist beliefs. If your point of enjoying the genre is that a person can say that they practice one philosophy while enjoying something in direct conflict as a form of entertainment, I guess I can buy that. I am a True Blood fan, Twilight series, American Horror Story, etc, because it is make believe. I think there is reason to think Mr. Echols has a fairly strong belief that some of his “genre” is very real to him. This is not my opinion, this is is his. Anything else I would say about people sending cash or donations of any variation to these people would be inflammatory and it would end with advice to remove their craniums from a portion of their anatomy it does not belong. I find DE library list the same FU I found his testimony, or his wacked out hair brushing, or his grotesquely inappropriate gestures to the family of the victims. I do not hear anyone talking about the blatant lies he told about prison rapes, he later admitted, or the interview where children were going to remember him in fear he was under their bed, a quote from one of his psych evaluations I might add.

    I would also like to hear Mr. Echols has sent his son a check for the child support he did not have to pay for the last 18 years. This boy is saddled with this mess, it is the least he can do- no?

    To All:

    Do y’all know that the innocence project was involved, they were given the boot when Lorri Davis was asked to provide an accounting of the funds being raised, and Baldwin and Misskelley’s atty’s balked because they were not getting their share. I sincerely wonder how people will feel when they learn the amount of money raised, and earned by all concerned.

    The offers being fielded right now by agents do not include requests to continue further DNA testing and the best they can do is a trio of friends of friends who took a polygraph that they were told Hobbs committed murder. I would say there are thousands that could be included in that group. Wait, me too, I was told he committed those murders.

    Nobody finding it disingenuous all of a sudden that the “defense team” is pointing a finger similar to what was done to Byers that Echols has apologized for? Really? The irony is rich, indeed.

    I will say this, the branding effort on behalf of the WM3 and principals, was masterful.
    Beyond masterful. Legendary. Orwellian.

    In the words of Mark Fuhrman “The Murder Business” is a very real enterprise.

    If you do not mind indulging me I enjoyed your quotes very much and I would like to share a few that are very important to me; I reminded myself of them more than a few times while writing this series.

    “Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It’s knowing you’re licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what. You rarely win, but sometimes you do.”
    

    Atticus Finch- To Kill a Mockingbird~ Harper Lee

    “In whatever area in life one may meet the challenges of courage, whatever may be the sacrifices he faces if he follows his conscience – the loss of his friends, his fortune, his contentment, even the esteem of his fellow men – each man must decide for himself the course he will follow. The stories of past courage can define that ingredient – they can teach, they can offer hope, they can provide inspiration. But they cannot supply courage itself. For this each man must look into his own soul.”

    John Fitzgerald Kennedy

    I was not content to believe in a personal devil and serve him, in the ordinary sense of the word. I wanted to get hold of him personally and become his chief of staff.

    Alestair Crowley

    To grapple with evil, you have to look at it, not in horror or as spectacle but with the same attention that you’d give to any problem you are seriously interested in.

    Deepak Chopra

    Insanity in individuals is something rare – but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.

    Friedrich Nietzsche
29. vicki says:

    February 5, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pathetic.
30. publiceenemynumerouno says:

    February 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Mom 3.0

    You make points that really mean nothing to anybody familiar with more than one crime. Either this is the only case you have ever studied or it’s the only one you’ve become capable of regurgitating from online resources or a television movie.

    Confessions are almost never completely candid with respect to admitting culpability and often place blame for third parties. Even the certainty of death isn’t always enough to evoke a completely honest and truthful confession.

    Bill Hagmaier and Bob Keppel both spent time with Ted Bundy prior to his execution. Keppel grew frustrated with Bundy as a line formed of investigators waiting to clear cold cases in which he had no involvement. He asked “What do you plan on telling them?” He knew Bundy was lying and Bundy knew that he knew. Still, the show went on.

    Bundy scripted the Lake Sammamish crime based on a detective magazine. He had abducted one victim, then a second, and then made one watch while he murdered the other. He engaged in necrophilia with at least one of the victims but, do his dying day, even though he admitted every other part of the crimes, denied engaging in necrophilia.

    To somebody who doesn’t have a political agenda the obvious lesson here is that even suspects facing almost certain death who have been convicted of a wealth of crimes with no prospect of release will continue to lie for reasons of their own.

    Maybe the easy thing would be for you to admit that even if all three stepped up and on video admitted what they had done you’d still deny their guilt?
31. Scott H says:

    February 5, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Mom, whenever I look at your responses to a given post, I think it must be similar to what people feel standing at basecamp looking up at Everest. One thing before I get to the long winded part of this post. Please don’t think I am lumping you into the supporter category, I just stated that at times, your explanations of things reminds me of the supporter way of thinking. Now, for the longer part, your comment about living a sheltered life with well mannered friends made me think of something that happened in my home town in the mid nineties.

    I was born and raised in a town of about ten thousand called Baraboo in southern Wisconsin, and lived there up until 15 years ago. I was 16 In 1992, when one of my friends, Jim Steiner, had a 14 year old younger brother go missing that summer. They found him 5 days later in the Wisconsin river, apparently he had died from drowning.

    Around 1 year later, another young boy, Thad Phillips was taken from his bedroom window in the middle of the night. The person that took him was Joe Clark, a 17 year old Baraboo student. He took thad to his house, took him upstairs to his bedroom, and proceeded to lay him on a couch, and placed his legs on a coffee table. He then jumped on Thad’s legs snapping them in half. I will spare you the rest of the details, eventually, after taking a few naps in between bone breaking torture sessions, Joe went on a date with his girlfriend. Thad was able to break out of a closet he had been stuffed in, crawl downstairs while passing out multiple times, and reached a phone. The police got there and were able to save Thad. He was able to recall Clark talking about another of his victims, Chris Steiner, my friends younger brother. His body was exhumed, and sure enough, he had suffered similar fractures to his legs before Clark had thrown him in the river.

    Here is my point, I used to ride the school bus with Joe Clark, sitting behind him many times. He used to love to talk about killing anyone from his Mother to any other kid he had a problem with at that time. He also loved drawing pentagrams on the top of his hands, like thousands of other teenagers. We blew it off as Joe just being a dumbass, never took it very seriously. When they searched Joe’s room, they found a notebook that had upwards of twenty names of young kids from Baraboo in it, many listed under the heading, “the leg thing”. Again, my point is, sometimes, not always, sometimes, where there is smoke, there is definitely fire. The fact Damien never acted out on threats from his past, doesen’t mean he wouldn’t in the future.

    You said something in your post, and I think it hits the nail on the head. That taking everything in from this case, I see guilt, you see doubt. I am not sure either of us could sway the other at this point. I will say you are one of the most thoughtful posters I have ever encountered not just in regards to this case, but maybe the internet in general. I know your main focus is the same as mine, justice for the three little men that I fear may never come.

    If anybody wants to see more about the serial killer I used to sit behind on the bus, click below.
    http://newsflavor.com/world/usa-canada/13-year-old-thad-phillips-escaped-43-hours-of-bone-breaking-torture/

    Scott H-

    I was so impacted by your post at the same time another case blew up, literally-

    I will response when I get a chance, but wanted to say that I felt that hot mess with every word.

    I get it and thank God you are ok

    B
32. Mom3.0 says:

    February 5, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Hi Blink thanks for sharing your awesome quotes and for sharing your thoughts with me-

    I do question whether or not the 3 received fair trials – and I am right there with you in wishing they all had a second bite at the apple-

    I do now, and have always conceded that the three never should have been released the way they were- but in truth Blink they never should have been convicted the way they were either-

    So yes – the Arkansas system failed on all fronts.

    Does any of this make the 3 convicted men innocent of the murders? hell no

    Does it make them guilty of the murders? hell yes…. but a verdict of guilty or a Alford Plea does not mean they are in fact the killers.

    Heres where I am stuck Blink-

    There were so many mistakes in the investigation, in the trials and in the case- the LEO and the lawyers etc were wrong on so many things- they were wrong

    I cant not seem to find one piece of evidence- that wasnt mishandled whether it be an interview or the followup or a witness with no substantiation or the physical evidence etc.

    This makes me leery of trusting the “facts ” of the case.

    These 3 most certainly could have killed Stevie Mike and Chris-
    I have never said this is not possible

    Or Jesse could have with other accomplices even with little Aaron looking on and could have just supplied JB and DEs names

    Or DE could have killed them, with Domini or others like LG using JB’s borrowed iceax

    Or Jason and his bigger badder cousin could have killed them

    Or any # of other people could have done it

    I just can not know- the evidence does not lead me to them and to only them- and when it begins to, there are always questions regarding police mishandling and ineptitude which clouds the issues-

    If there is one piece of substantiated unmarred evidence which points to their guilt, theirs and theirs alone- I have not been able to find it- that does not mean I know they did not do it- it means I cant get to guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, as I have been able to find one piece of evidence which points to their undeniable innocence as well.

    Again I am not claiming they should have walked- nor am I claiming they couldnt infact be the killers…

    I understand why you and others may feel like I believe that- I dont-

    Your thoughts brought this scene from Pee Wees Big Adventure to mind, and I had to laugh, maybe it will give you a chuckle as well:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z0VMI67a4Y&feature=related

    AJMO
    Peace

    Ps thank you very very much Flora for taking the time to post very much appreciated-

    Vicki- that is certainly one way to think about his statement, and who knows you could be right-
    When I play devil’s advocate, as it were, I am not touting my opinions as fact- I am simply giving everyone a different perspective-

    Tom Shea, Hi thanks for sharing your thoughts, I understand your feelings, and if I could reach the place where you are- having no reasonable doubt I might share your sentiments-

    AJMO
33. vicki says:

    February 5, 2012 at 11:44 pm

    I just dont understand why someone “Innocent”would confess so many times. I think jessie confessed a lot…… and the other 2 admitted it to other people that they killed the kids(and how they did it.
    i think all 3 have told more stories and confessions than than Van der sloot!

    only jessie confessed to police(more than once) and the others told their friends.
34. vicki says:

    February 6, 2012 at 12:44 am

    Vicki- respectfully, that was rude. Address a post, not the poster.
    B
35. Mom3.0 says:

    February 6, 2012 at 1:25 am

    Scott,

    Thank you for sharing your very painful memory with me. I am sorry if I made you feel that you had to share your story inorder to defend yourself or your position.

    I am most grateful that you did share it though, as it gave me much to think about and I can now understand without a doubt where you are coming from.

    I am very sorry for what happened to your friends little brother and I am glad that the next boy found the strength to survive.

    I am glad that the killer was apprehended and that there was ample evidence to connect him to Chris Steiners torture and murder, before anyoneelse, suffered at the hands of this murderer.

    I want to say also thanks for kindness- it takes a very good person to offer a compliment to someone who has just made them relive a terrible memory.

    I can see now that you do understand my point of view regarding doubt- as I now understand yours – especially your harsh words for DE as you see him as another Joe Clark. I can understand why you do and why you are more apt to view all the evidence and go toward the side of caution (guilt) when dealing with the quiet unnerving pentagram liking teen with 500 pages of documented histories and the rest, as you want to make sure above all else that all children are safe from the likes of the next Joe Clark.

    I can not fault you for evaluating all the evidence while using your own life experiences to reach the conclusion that DE and company are the killers.

    I know I lament about not being able to conclude guilt beyond a reasonable doubt- but I would gladly stay forever on the fence, if the only way to get down, was to walk a mile in your shoes, Dear Scott.

    I dont know if I will ever be able to see your truth, or if I will be destined to remain undecided, but your very personal thoughtful post makes me sure that this case is one which seems to come down to a persons perspectives and life ecperiences- allowing them to be nudged in one direction or the other.

    I sincerely wish that police had handled this investigation better, as I know if they had, many would be able to jump down off that fence.

    Thank you again ScottH-
    Peace
    AJMO
36. Mom3.0 says:

    February 6, 2012 at 1:57 am

    Ps Scott, thank you for sharing that link with us.

    I am truly horrified by what those little boys had to endure.
    I hope Thad and his family were able to go on and have happiness and good health. My heart goes out to the family of Chris as well. May he Rest In Peace

    I am so sorry Scott, I can only imagine what you and your friends family and the town went through….

    I find myself asking so many questions- where were Joes parents? Were there no neighbors around?

    How long had Joe been torturing and/or killing? Did he confess?

    My prayers to you Scott and to all who were impacted by this young mans horrendous murderous acts.

    Peace
37. Mom3.0 says:

    February 6, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Hello Blink, as I was reviewing the links you supplied February 2, 2012 at 11:19 pm from Callahans, IRT the necklace…

    I found this document which has Mike Allen submitting the pendant to the State Crime Lab-
    It reads that the pendant came from a necklace worn by DE at the time of his arrest.

    http://callahan.8k.com/images2/ascl/ascl_03-11-94_submission.jpg

    Since this all came about after both trials- and since there were mistakes concerning other possible evidence-and since the ax necklace was never entered as evidence at trial… I suppose it is posssible that Mike Allen was mistaken about who exactly wore the ax pendant at the time of arrest, perhaps it had been picked up in one of the searches? IDK

    I unfortunately could not find a jail document listing the items taken from DE at the time of arrest…

    Just wanted to share this, as I THINK although DE was wearing the pentagram necklace May 10th the day of the interview/pic, he seems to have been wearing the ax pendant at the rink and at the time of his arrest-

    Thanks for helping me get my facts straight, as much as possible in this case anyway….sigh-

    also including link to discussing the prosecutions recollections concerning the necklace etc

    http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/motions/jb_response_motion_new_trial.html

    AJMO

    I owe you better substantive source, I will follow up at my earliest oppty.

    B
38. Mom3.0 says:

    February 6, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    ScottH, hello again- I hope you dont mind, But I read up on the case.

    It seems the case was featured on other crime shows as well as Escape If I may, I would like to help you clear up your recollection of the years as I would think it is important to you and to the families, for the correct dates to be established,
    The disappearance of your friends brother actually occurred July 4th 1994 not 1992. I realize exact dates become less important and harder to remember as more time passes. Hope in some small way my correction helps you and everyone impacted.

    ps thanks for describing my long winded way too long posts in such a nice way, and thank you for taking the time to read them.

    AJMO
    Peace
39. GraceintheHills says:

    February 6, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Scott H says:
    February 4, 2012 at 11:54 am
    Oh mom, what are we going to do with you? Yes we were all teens, we understand the angst that accompanies that time in our life. Please though, don’t attempt to correlate sucking blood from another persons open wound as run of the mill behavior. I knew plenty of troubled kids at that age, not a single one ever behaved in such a manner.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Scott, what are we going to do with Mom? I know what I’m going to do. I’m going to keep reading her posts, as well as all the others here. I have found her to be one of the most meticulous researchers and clear thinkers I have ever read here at BOC. She is one of the very few here that, imho, usually succeeds in keeping the emotions out of her analysis.

    So, just a few questions for you: Have you ever worked in a psychiatric juvenile facility that treats mentally ill or personality disordered teens, or do you just “know” troubled teens? I can assure you there is a vast difference in “knowing” and actually working with this population. Not every troubled teen who likes the taste of blood (and I can assure you there are many out there who do) are destined to murder, bind, and throw three little boys in a ditch. If a troubled teen hurts anyone, it is usually him/herself. DE was hospitalized three times, and released on the same antidepressant all three times. He was never diagnosed as psychotic or bipolar by a psychiatrist; he was diagnosed with depression. Yes, he threatened his girlfriend’s father, his own father and mother, but did he carry through on those threats? No. Most troubled teens who make threats they never intend to follow through on, feel powerless in their dysfunctional environments. They are mouthy and angry, but often passive and depressed. When someone with a trained eye reviews these medical records, it is evident that DE followed his treatment plan, was not restrained for fighting staff or peers, and established rapport with some members of his team. Severely disturbed teens who fought/repeatedly threatened their way through their hospitalizations were restrained or secluded repeatedly in those days. Those who think Mom and others are being dismissive of his medical history simply do not understand the range of pathology one sees in these types of treatment settings. The records, imo, reflect that DE was actually quite reserved in hospital compared to many hospitalized troubled teens.

    My point is, imo, the records do not point us clearly in either direction, and certainly are not evidence of guilt.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Just read about the case of your “friend” from school. If I have some time, I will review that case.
40. Ragdoll says:

    February 6, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    @ Mom3.0

    Bless your heart sweet friendy. You’re one relentless soldier of love!

    I have a thought for you….

    Personally, I still find Misskelly’s confession expose his guilty conscience. Yes, the poly picks up deception…but Misskelly was changing details. I don’t believe his fabricated but rather tried to confuse the truth.

    The details change…..why??? He’s not stupid. He tried to minimize, imo, his involvement and focus on Echols and Baldwin as the perps. He knew he was in trouble when confronted by LE. Why he kept changing his story is a puzzle. We hear of false confessions but they usually spew non sense. Misskelly hit on information that was true to the crime scene. JMHO, but I feel it would be completely irresponsible to nullify his confession/s. He had something to say…even if the truth was smudged with inconsistences. If you put the pieces together from all confessions, you recognize fragements of the truth. Baldwin and Echols shunning him after their release, although not hard core proof, lends credibility to the possibility that Misskelly outted them all.

    Chronic liars can never kept their stories straight but they’ll always give something away.

    Lovin on you girl. I wish I had your gift…and maybe….I can be just like you when I grow up. I shall strive to be…..with infinite love my friendy <3
41. Scott H says:

    February 6, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    Mom, you are correct, Chris did go missing in 1994, not 92, sorry about that, amazing to me it was already 18 years ago. I remember Bill Curtis narrated a cold case file on the case on A&E. I found it on Youtube, oddly enough, it is narrated by someone other than Curtis, who did it when it aired on TV, I have no idea why. The Clark story is the second one in this video, it starts at 24:45. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhMhJrkczyQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player. You will see Clarks Mother speak in this video, and see the horrible conditions of the house they lived in. The house was in a very rural area, not many nearby neighbors. Amazing that Thad actually willingly ran with Clark for a mile in the middle of the night. I have never met Thad, and oddly enough, He was shot a few years later in a trailer park, though he didn’t die, and I believe he still lives in Baraboo. Clark denies having a part in Chris’s death, and in the video his Mother attempts an alibi for him. Obviously he can’t deny the torture of Thad, and in the video you will see Phillips say he recalls Clark talking about another victim, but can’t remember his name.
42. vicki says:

    February 7, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Well Blink i really dont care. BTW Go ahead and block me! All thats on this page is W M 3 lovers anyway.
    I’m out bye bye
43. sandy says:

    February 7, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Ok maybe i am on the wrong page
44. vicki says:

    February 7, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    I Thought a Jury of 2 separate trials convicted thee 3
45. Tom says:

    February 7, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    What a Tragedy for the family of the Mores.
    Seems that entertainment, money, celebrity and a gullible public united to wear down a prosecutor and a State allowed three bloodthirsty killers to walk.Just what has become of this Country?
46. Betty says:

    February 7, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    AT-publiceenemynumerouno— Well said!I wanted to say the same thing myself.
47. Tom says:

    February 7, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    To (vicki) Yes I agree and I’m shocked to see you get attacked for your thoughts!
    I would also like to add that Jason Baldwin confessed to the murders to Michael Carson in jail &Carson testified at trial to same.
    Carson took a lie detector test & passed. Baldwin REFUSED to take a polygraph & REFUSED to talk to police & did not take the stand in his own defense?
48. Blink says:

    February 7, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    @tom
    One user name only, and vicki was never attacked for her thoughts. Feel free to read up on my coverage of this case.

    She was told about being rude, more than once , and told me she did not care and was outta here.

    Respectful and one hat, those are my rules.
49. sandy says:

    February 7, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Some people get offended when someone states that they killed them? Why IDK But Obviously The police had something to go on otherwise yrs ago they would’ve walked out free.
50. Ragdoll says:

    February 7, 2012 at 5:01 pm

    LMAO @ one hat. A bit of a gender shifter too.

    I needed that laugh!

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