Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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“Kaine Horman’s restraining order against his wife is renewed for another year”
Published: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 5:05 PM
Updated: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 5:27 PM
(snipped)
“At Kaine Horman’s request, a Multnomah County judge this week renewed the restraining order that Kaine Horman obtained against his wife, Terri Lynn Moulton Horman, for another year, lasting through June 24, 2013.”
“Kaine Horman’s divorce attorney, Laura Rackner, submitted to the court the petition for renewal. She attached a two-paragraph statement that explains his reason for the restraining order, the same exhibit attached to his restraining order petition a year ago.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kaine_hormans_restraining_orde.html#incart_river_default
Correct and confirmed. Was reviewed and signed June 24, 2012.
B
Well, TRuth. When the LE agencies did canvassing interviews of the 490,, one couldn’t say “Terri was involved” or anything similar. That’s Like having a line up with only the arrestee in it, or the others are uniformly a foot taller with the opposite hair color. That would mean any witness testimony turned up would be discredited in those interviews.
Like me interviewing as a CPS worker the adjacent neighbors of the subject of an abuse complaint for the first time and prefacing with (as a govt agent): “Now we know she beats the shit out of her kids, and we need to
protect them, so we just want to document how often you’ve heard them scream.” No professional investigator would do that.
@Bumble. Judge Grine followed the letter of the law. He had positive reports to continue Sandusky ftom child welfare and probation supervisors. He absolutely played along with Court & TSM colleagues, and his work
collegial-social-financial peer group. And yet he erred. He issued decisions for at least one (and imo more) children in initial and continued placements without real attrntion to the best interests of the children, without real fact finding, without concern for the child subject of the action. Imo a simple supportive chat with Matt in Chambers would’ve gotten to the bottom of things. There was a family court judge, another good Presbyterian, in DC — George Goodrich — who’d get to the bottom of a petition or RO with respect to children.
I see Meisenheimef as hiding behind tge letter of procedure but bankrupt as a Judge when it comes to Equity.
The point of an RO IS equity.
He should have gotten sworn testimony from LE to substantiate the sworn claims as to LE on which Kaine acted.
Imo Kaine/Rackner couldn’t provide that, or they would’ve provided it in the first instance in the original petition.
Meisenheimer credited the functional equivalent of tge failed mfh sting without adking for more-for supplemental backup documentation from LE when the dust settled.
I don’t care what Terri did or procedure says.
I’m saying his work in this matter in family Court as to this child, which is not Kyron and had no evidence of a threat,
was as fundamentally flawed as Grine’s with Matt.
And if he’s done it to one spouse/child at the request of a fofmer office mate, imo he’s done it or may do it to others.
Just my opinion as they say.’
IIRC, like Grine & Kristler in Centre Cty, didn’t J Meisenheimer retire? Jan 2011?
He kept the Horman case however. Were there any others which had just begun
(hadn’t he had Hormans 6 mos & initial hearings?) which he kept jurisdiction over? How
many? If he didn’t keep as a retiree other new family cases, imo his case retention
was possibly CYA — not to transfer the case and open the original RO to colleagial
evaluation.
@evie,
TY for the sweet post. Guess I’m getting touchy.
only locals can get that info (how many other new divorce cases Judge KM kept on retirement) and know for sure.
Imo most attorneys and Judges would want to get rid of messey potentially violent divorce cases and would see retirement as an opportunity
Dates?
Court records show that a copy of the civil lawsuit that Desiree Young, Kyron’s mother, filed June 1 against Terri Horman, was served on Terri Horman in Roseburg on June 12.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kaine_hormans_restraining_orde.html#incart_river_default
So the papers re DY’s suit were not served until 11 days after she filed and came forward and made her announcement that she was suing Terri?
And does Judge M typically work on Sundays? Wasn’t it a Sunday that Kaine Horman filed (AND WAS GRANTED) his initial RO?
Also, did I dream this or wasn’t Meisenheimer supposed to retire?
Bumble says:
June 28, 2012 at 7:53 pm
Rose says:
June 28, 2012 at 5:15 pm
If Judge M would do this (grant and continue in place the original RO) on the avowals of hearsay of LE, without direct sworn LE testimony, ex parte at the petitioning by one former work setting colleague, there are more out there imo. What Judicial ethics commission will find them? MBS: I don’t care that the restrained party had to prove innocence. I care that having signed an Emergency RO, he never went back and required sworn LE testimony on which the RO was totally based. He needed some sworn evidence on the hearsay because that was the entire RO foundation. And he had the power to get it. Are there no feminists supporting mother’s rights in contested divorces in Portland?
@Rose:
Has the mother even challenged the RO?
————————————————
It is my guess that since the paperwork says police have given Kaine “reason to believe”, that the judge could have asked for input or verification from the police and we would not be likely to know about it. For example, I am personally familiar with one RO which was presented to the court and supported by a family caseworker from the Dept of Human Services. The father was served but did not show up or contest the hearing. The caseworker did not take the stand and give sworn testimony, but had a thick file in court and was prepared to answer questions if necessary. I believe if the father had shown up and contested the RO, the caseworker would have been asked to testify and been questioned by the father’s attorney. I also believe the only thing shown on the formal record is that father did not contest or show up – not the things which could have been said but weren’t.
Terri did petition for visitation in October, 2010. Her petition was withdrawn. I have included some snips.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/terri_moulton_horman_withdraws.html November 3, 2010 by Maxine Bernstein
“Terri Moulton Horman’s attorneys have withdrawn their motion seeking parenting time for their client with her daughter after her estranged husband’s lawyer informed them that they would face extensive discovery, “multiple depositions” and subpoenas for their client’s medical records.”
“Respondent’s decision to defer this matter is in no way an agreement to maintain the status quo with Kiara,” wrote Peter Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney, in a motion filed Tuesday. “Respondent wishes only to act in Kiara’s best interest. Respondent does not, and will not, give up her right to seek legal custody and unfettered contact with Kiara. Petitioner’s efforts to withhold all parenting time is completely contrary to Kiara’s healthy development. However, under all of the circumstances, issues regarding parenting time will need to wait for another day, when additional facts can be obtained and presented.”
“Multnomah County Judge Keith Meisenheimer has agreed to dismiss Terri Horman’s motion to modify the restraining order, meaning she’s still prohibited from any contact with Kiara, now 2.”
“As a result, the previously scheduled Thursday hearing, and four days of hearings set aside in early January, have been canceled.”
——————————-
I think the most interesting sentence is: “However, under all of the circumstances, issues regarding parenting time will need to wait for another day, when additional facts can be obtained and presented.”
I respect the rights of others to think differently, but I personally would not take on her cause for mother’s rights and apparently she hasn’t either. Where are the additional facts which were to be obtained and presented? Why object to having her medical records examined? Of course, the hearing would be ugly and things can be twisted around – but so can silence.
Since that day, I have continued to wonder whether her attorneys encouraged her to ask for visitation to improve her image, or whether it was her idea. Why did she wait until October? Why didn’t they negotiate for TH and KH to both take psychological exams?
In spite of the ugliness of court battles, if she had (1) appropriate results on the psychological exams, (2) a current assessment for alcohol and other drug abuse, (3) a medical file that was normal in the context of being a parent, (4) people familiar with her parenting who would testify to her character, (5) agreed to supervised visitation, (6) taken the 5th as needed, and (7) just hung in there, she’d probably have been allowed supervised visits with Kiara – it was a judge’s decision, not Kaine’s, and she had 2 attorneys watching out for her rights. What else has she done with her time?
Unless – there are requirements on my list that she fears she cannot meet or she is aware of other information which could be presented against her, or she does not want to spend the money on divorce and custody issues because she anticipates needing it for the criminal case.
I don’t know the answers, but I’m not willing to stand up for her parental rights (which have not been terminated) or visitation without knowing a LOT more than I know now.
Rose says:
June 28, 2012 at 10:48 pm
only locals can get that info (how many other new divorce cases Judge KM kept on retirement) and know for sure.
Imo most attorneys and Judges would want to get rid of messey potentially violent divorce cases and would see retirement as an opportunity
——————————–
@Rose – I think the judge kept this case because of the expertise and possibly the research study time required to deal with a civil and criminal case so intertwined as this one is. In Oregon, it is not unusual to have retired judges continue to take some cases to help out, or to be called in if there is a backlog for some reason. Rather than saying what a mess and walking away, I think a good judge would be attracted by the challenge and perhaps the chance to establish a legal precedent here or there. IF this ever goes to court, it may turn out to be one of Oregon’s more famous textbook cases – an incentive in itself to see it through.
Involvement in violent crimes. ??
Ok
What do you think?
Malty says: June 28, 2012 at 3:19 pm
“As I find Kaine saying he hardly ever thinks of Terri anymore real unusual considering he thinks she is a threat to him and his family.”
++++++++++++
This is utter BS.. Kaine thinks about Terry everyday. If he truly thinks Terri knows something and won’t talk in order to help find Kyron, believe me, he obsesses about her on a daily basis (probably not in a good way). Why he would say that doesn’t make sense.
Terri’s involvement in violent crimes? As in plural? Is this addional language to the newest restraining renewal? If so, maybe new information about Terri has been discovered. What violent crimes has Terri been involved in?
Kaine Horman’s petition for renewing the restraining order also noted, “Respondent is being investigated by law enforcement for her involvement in violent crimes.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kaine_hormans_restraining
If LE is backing that up, and I would suggest they are, it should answer anyone’s questions about why Terri does not fight it.
B
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kaine_hormans_restraining_orde.html#incart_river_default
Notice the article says Terri was served June 12th. So the 30 days to respond would be July 12, no?
Yes, unless there was some arrangement for her atty to accept service, which it appears there was not.
B
So how long has it been now that she has not seen her daughter?? Could anyone really go that long if they were innocent? She doesn’t even fight it…? She truly only cares about herself…
That may be true, or it may be the lesser of the evils as relayed to her by her attorney, and her initial experiences with LE.
B
Have there been any developments on the remains found off Sauvie Island?
(snipped) “Kaine Horman’s petition for renewing the restraining order also noted, “Respondent is being investigated by law enforcement for her involvement in violent crimes.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kaine_hormans_restraining
If LE is backing that up, and I would suggest they are, it should answer anyone’s questions about why Terri does not fight it.
B”
————————————————————–
Will there ever be a resolution to the RO and divorce proceedings, i.e. how long can this go on and why? The criminal case may never be solved. There are legal undertones here I simply don’t understand.
Thank God for Maxine, she always follows up on these issues. Haven’t heard a peep from other local media
yet.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kaine_hormans_restraining_orde.html#incart_river_default
Snipped>>>
From article:
Kaine Horman’s petition for renewing the restraining order also noted, “Respondent is being investigated by law enforcement for her involvement in violent crimes.”
From the RO exhibit:
“Local and federal law enforcement agencies are currently investigating my Wife, Respondent/Terri Horman, for her involvement in Kyron’s disappearance.
————————
Reading this and especially the above, I can see why Meisenheimer extended the RO. I also understand why TH has not petitioned it so far, a la Houze and Bunch.
Assuming this is all true, and I suspect it is, TH is still a defacto suspect. IIRC LE needs either physical evidence of, or a witness to, a crime to officially name someone a suspect. Correct me if I am wrong on that, Blink.
Unless it is in moderation somewhere or I’m not quite awake yet, I don’t see this part of the same story, so I’m including it in case someone wonders about the divorce. It seems “time” (2 years) in a legal sense is counted about the same as time in a football or basketball game – you just never know exactly.
(snipped)
A pending Horman divorce proceeding also this week was delayed until Nov. 23 of this year for any future hearings. The attorneys for Kaine Horman and Terri Horman agreed to the delay, according to documents filed in court this week.
The delay to November will mark a two-year delay – what Terri Horman’s lawyers had sought in the fall of 2010, when they argued that Terri Horman faced “substantial legal risk” if the divorce hearings were to proceed while the criminal investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance is ongoing.
In October 2010, Multnomah County Judge Keith Meisenheimer had declined a two-year delay, and instead granted a three-month delay. Meisenheimer remains the judge handling the divorce proceeding, and granted the most recent delay until November.
http://topics.oregonlive.com/tag/kyron-horman/index.html
January says:
June 29, 2012 at 5:17 am
Malty says: June 28, 2012 at 3:19 pm
“As I find Kaine saying he hardly ever thinks of Terri anymore real unusual considering he thinks she is a threat to him and his family.”
++++++++++++
This is utter BS.. Kaine thinks about Terry everyday. If he truly thinks Terri knows something and won’t talk in order to help find Kyron, believe me, he obsesses about her on a daily basis (probably not in a good way). Why he would say that doesn’t make sense.
—————–
@January – I totally agree, he must think about her all the time. To me his statement makes sense if KH thinks or knows she is watching and his words will have the desired effect on her.
According to LE and Desiree the evidence against Terri will surprise us, may be something we wish we didn’t know about, make us want to throw up, and prove that she is capable of harming Kyron in the worst possible way. The evidence shows that Terri may have been involved in violent crimes.
The FBI definition of violent crimes: In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime/
Amy’s Sis, I am going to request links for that commentary please. I know Desiree has formed opinions, but LE has never said there is any evidence linked to TH, or any violent crime I am aware of. Respectfully, your lumping assumptions with innuendo and I want to stay as true to the facts as we can.
B
January says:
June 29, 2012 at 5:17 am
Malty says: June 28, 2012 at 3:19 pm
“As I find Kaine saying he hardly ever thinks of Terri anymore real unusual considering he thinks she is a threat to him and his family.”
++++++++++++
This is utter BS.. Kaine thinks about Terry everyday. If he truly thinks Terri knows something and won’t talk in order to help find Kyron, believe me, he obsesses about her on a daily basis (probably not in a good way). Why he would say that doesn’t make sense.
——————–
I was once in a bitter (on his side) divorce. There were constant attempts to engage in disagreements. I was always trying to smooth things over, especially for the kids. The best counseling advice I ever got was from my kids’ school counselor who said you have to learn to say “John, who?” (not his real name). Whenever you start worrying about him or are tempted to try to help him in some way (getting back together was never an option), you have to say to yourself, “John, who?” and go on with your life.
That was not a simple or easy thing to do, but eventually it worked for me emotionally and it slowly extinguished his attempts to keep that connection going. You don’t forget about the person, it’s more like remembering a news story after you turn off the TV. Hard to explain unless you’ve been there and tried it.
I hope Kaine is still going to counseling. I’m certain he has done a great deal of thinking about Terri, what went wrong in the marriage, how she could be involved, etc. At one point he said in an interview once that he wished none of this had happened and they were still together. Maybe now, he may have been sincerely trying to say he has gotten past thinking of her in a personal sense. I hope he does not obsess about her every day because it wouldn’t be good for him, for Kiara, or anyone else, and it wouldn’t help the case. Granted, it would be difficult not to, but he has found things he can focus on to keep Kyron’s name in the news.
I doubt if his statement was in relation to the need for the RO. Seems like more of a personal response to me – something that seems to be difficult for him and which he would not want to elaborate on.
My question: Is the investigation into violent crimes regarding the disappearance of Kyron or a secondary investigation? If it’s involving the disappearance of Kyron then they have evidence and/or suspicions she harmed him herself during his abduction.
If there’s evidence of violent crimes having taken place aside from Kyron’s disappearance then I’m left wondering how monumental this case and all things related are.
Haven’t seen the actual new RO, but did Rackner pull the *violent crimes* from this statement by the FBI spokesperson, back in February 2011?:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/02/fbi_will_dedicate_up_to_six_ag.html
“The FBI has stepped up their participation,” Staton said Wednesday. “They’ve offered up the BAU unit and any assistance.”
Beth Anne Steele, FBI spokeswoman, said the BAU agents assisting bring an expertise specific to violent crimes and kidnapping.
(snipped)
Well, they couldn’t get her for arson, so I guess they’re looking for past violent crimes now. (Yes, I’m being sarcastic.)
If this woman has committed violent crimes, why in the hell wouldn’t she be in freakin’ jail? How long does it take to investigate someone for a violent crime? I mean, first, there has to be one, right? Violent crimes are usually reported, because they involve a murder or robbery, or something. It’s apparent that this is referring to the alleged MFH and the suspected kidnapping of Kyron. IMO, that’s all it’s referring to.
I have always wondered why Houze/Bunch wanted two years in the first place. Two years seemed a long time to push for abatement. Now they’re getting it, but why two years? Did Houze think it would take that much time to investigate and build Terri’s side of the case? By the time Desiree’s suit gets underway, it would be about the two year mark as well. Maybe we will finally see something happen in this case. I hope so.
“After Kyron went missing and the investigation began, law enforcement officials informed me that my Wife had attempted to hire our landscaper to kill me for money.”
Is it just me, or is this sentence worded funny? It doesn’t say that Terri tried to pay a landscaper to kill Kaine, it really says that she *attempted* to hire our landscaper to kill me……..*for money*.
It almost sounds like Kaine may be saying Terri tried to kill him for his money. IOW, a possible life insurance policy? I wonder if LE knows of a life insurance policy taken out around the time of the alleged MFH plot? Perhaps that furthered their belief in RS’s statements?
@MBS. I respectfully disagree complexity dictated case retention.
Many cases are this complex or more so.
It would be utterly narcissistic of KM to think a judicial
colleague was less ept on this or any other complex case.
The divorce case had hardly begun, and had reached no substantive issues.
Had not embarked on the Trial itself. Imo no reason to retain but for CYA on the weaknesses of the RO.
I have no knowledge of or investment in TMH and don’t give a Dxxn if she ever sees Kiara again.
I do care about fundamental fairness in the judicial system.
I will say in Court reports about parents, ie when seeking an RO, as an employee I’d cite the facts not the conclusions.
Had one father jailed for violating an RO. Promptly triedto hang himself which vindicated the Judge & RO. I see no public factual basis here for RO, just conclusory statements. I remember one family with years of fact- based (testimonially observed) neglect facts, but Corp Counsel wrote hospital-documented “flea bites” in the petition. Not the real basis but Judges want objective facts to base actions on. Here, the RO cries out for any fact, or an affidavit by a member of LE.
Another thing I learned from older workers is the State “taking” a kid perpetuates a generational cycle like a pedophilia cycle. If neglecting Mom is young enough, she’ll fill the loss with more births. And, the kid losing Mom may start child bearing as a teen to fill the heart hole. No idea if this will apply to Kiara, but the RO may have blowback KM is not trained to foresee. Just like poor Matt, whose Judge trusted the probation & child welfare supervisors, and his friend Jerry.
I look forward to Kiara’s 31 yo story from a human interest perspective.
But imo none of this divorce stuff is likely to write a satisfactory conclusion for poor Kyron.
And I think KM’s biography as a Judge will likely be tarnished by his actions in this case, which is too bad.
He should have let it go.
Here you go, Blink:
http://www.katu.com/home/video/103027714.html
Link to the September 2010 news conference with Sheriff Dan Staton in which he discusses the new task force and all those he hopes will join (10:15 in the video).
At (11:30 in the video) he is asked what he thinks will come out of this investigation and he states maybe other cases will come out but especially issues and concerns that need to be addressed by the Portland Police Bureau, a lot of information was developed during the course of this investigation that has created concerns which may need to be investigated by other government entities.
**I listened to the entire video only to realize the quote I’m in search of was cut off by KATU
Here’s a link for Staton’s quote:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/new_strategy_in_kyron_horman_c.html
Staton said the public will be surprised when they learn more details of the case. “We have a knowledge of things we wish we didn’t,” he said.
Amy’s sis- I am aware of that comment from Staton, and we have referenced it several times, I was asking you to separate out what is linkable, and what is not factual from your complete commentary.
ie: no evidence of violence or any other has ever been linked to TH.
TIA
B
If in fact Terri does have a police record of violent
Crimes
Then Malty is going have to take a lot better look at her
At this point I am kind shocked
“If LE is backing that up, and I would suggest they are, it should answer anyone’s questions about why Terri does not fight it.
B”
Blink, no not really, at least not for me.
imo, TH has something to hide, something that would not “preserve her freedom”, her #1 goal above that of seeing her daughter.
Given how the court matters have been going, it will not surprise me that come November, at the end of the 2-year abatement, that TH’s legal will request an extension on the abatement and JudgeM will grant it.
For that matter, I’m not under the impression that KH has been in any hurry to get the divorce case moving and a decree granted.
Two thoughts/questions:
If TH is innocent, the only other reason I can come up with is that she is protecting “someone else” . . . but what are the odds of this?
If LE is still backing whatever was presented to the Judge initially – what does that say to any “LE mistakes” discussed behind closed doors?
I do hope that TH has done one thing in particular as a mother for her little daughter . . . ensure that KH’s convicted brother is allowed no where near her.
“allowed no where near her”, bad phrasing.
“is not allowed anywhere near her.”
Watching the Staton news conference reminded me of a couple of things.
One, that Kyron’s investigation led to concerns that the Portland Police needed to address possibly with the Feds involvement.
Another is that he mentioned the Port of Portland police a couple of times during the conference. This is the force that handles security and investigations within a small radius around and inside the Portland Airport. Why would this become a part of this or a subsequent investigation?
I cannot under how some one can trust the care of their son for years
Then after he goes missing
Claim this person was a staggering drunk
And involved in violent crimes
And say they rarely think of this person anymore
And that everything seemed normal
In their home
MockingbirdSings says:
June 29, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Unless it is in moderation somewhere or I’m not quite awake yet, I don’t see this part of the same story, so I’m including it in case someone wonders about the divorce. It seems “time” (2 years) in a legal sense is counted about the same as time in a football or basketball game – you just never know exactly.
(snipped)
A pending Horman divorce proceeding also this week was delayed until Nov. 23 of this year for any future hearings. The attorneys for Kaine Horman and Terri Horman agreed to the delay, according to documents filed in court this week.
MBS and others: I can understand why Terri may agree to the delay, but why would Kaine agree to the delay? I would think getting her into court on anthing could possibly provide some answers or clues????
I can’t hardly post a post that makes sense due to shock at Kaine’s
Claims today
Sorry
@Blink – I thought I understood this, but now I’m not sure – how does one, specifically, a non-family member, a person not known to be closely associated with assumed victim or location, end up on LE’s radar as a potential future POI? For example, I was thinking, how did DeDe end up on LE’s radar in the first place. I thought I had read (I could totally be wrong) she was on their radar before the ‘bat phones’ talk – that they already knew she had missing pieces in her timeline. So, did the bat phones happen first? Or does LE typically ask a family “please provide the name of any associates, friends, family, employees, co-workers in your life” and then go to town looking into allllll of those people and hope they find something until they recieve leads? I am just trying to figure out how LE knew to look into DeDe, and her place of work / timeline in the first place? How did her name first come up? If the “bat phones” were discovered first, that makes sense, and I understand. If they were not (I have googled and checked timelines, but there are so many conflicting posts on this), was she looked at b/c of a tip, or would it be more likely that LE was looking looking into the family’s friends and happened to discover DeDe and her unverified missing time? There are SO many things that have been discussed, if this has as well, I would so appreciate the refresher!
Very simply LE works the ripples of a pond from the outside in, people she came into contact with that day, or in general.
B
@Tarheel. Because then the pot could call the kettle black and litigate the fruit of Houze’ investigations.
He has his child & assets and would only be likely to live with a signif other anyway.
Longer he waits, the much more to his advantage re assets & custody
The closest thing I have seen to indicate TMH’s involvement in violence was an entry on her facebook page. You don’t suppose LE would be reaching back this far to get something on her, or her violent tendencies. (yes, sarcasm, I hope) Or would some say this indicates she lies and embellishes to make herself look good. (sigh)
“Terri Moulton Horman
What’s nuts is about 25 years ago (I was 15 so Kelly would have been 5) I got into a fight with 2 boys outside a Raley’s in Sacramento because as she and I came out they called her the “N” word and were coming after her so I defended her. I just guess I thought all this hate was gone…
June 1 at 4:59pm”
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8263.0
24. T. Ruth says:
June 29, 2012 at 1:07 pm
SNIP>
I have always wondered why Houze/Bunch wanted two years in the first place. Two years seemed a long time to push for abatement. Now they’re getting it, but why two years? Did Houze think it would take that much time to investigate and build Terri’s side of the case? By the time Desiree’s suit gets underway, it would be about the two year mark as well. Maybe we will finally see something happen in this case. I hope so.
********************************************************
I’ve wondered that myself. I’m wondering if there are some sort of statute of limitations re: a 2 year period that we aren’t aware of?
Blink, is there some sort of Statute that expires at the 2year mark?
a little more insight into “the emails”:
snipped from article dated November 16, 2010
article, and video containing audio of DY speaking over the phone
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html?tab=video&c=y
I’m on Kyron’s side and whatever it takes to find him and bring him home, including LE asking the public for assistance in identifying and locating the male seen with Kyron . . . and the civil suit filed by DY.
Looking forward to
1) DY’s legal issuing subpeonas
2) DY’s legal conducting interviews
3) seeing the witness list
Whatever my or anyone’s opinion of what DY did in Roseburg, I admit that took real hutzpah. Her media pressers there also put a spotlight on LE continuing the physical searches.
DY’s actions to find her son have been and are VISIBLE . . . and that’s a good thing, imo.
Tarheel says:
June 29, 2012 at 3:02 pm
MockingbirdSings says:
June 29, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Unless it is in moderation somewhere or I’m not quite awake yet, I don’t see this part of the same story, so I’m including it in case someone wonders about the divorce. It seems “time” (2 years) in a legal sense is counted about the same as time in a football or basketball game – you just never know exactly.
(snipped)
A pending Horman divorce proceeding also this week was delayed until Nov. 23 of this year for any future hearings. The attorneys for Kaine Horman and Terri Horman agreed to the delay, according to documents filed in court this week.
MBS and others: I can understand why Terri may agree to the delay, but why would Kaine agree to the delay? I would think getting her into court on anthing could possibly provide some answers or clues????
——————————————————
@Tarheel – Good question. My guess – having no legal training at all – is that it was up to the judge to decide, but as I recall, Terri’s proposal agreed to making the divorce final and to leaving pretty much everything else temporarily “as is”, and also agreed not to claim any of Kaine’s post-separation assets or appreciation (probably of the house). She wanted the abatement to be about postponing the property and custody settlements so there would be no custody evaluation, testimony in court, etc., then or for the next 2 years.
At the time, Kaine and whoever (LE, we assume) were hoping that the divorce proceedings could bring out some information to help find Kyron. IMO, Kaine did not want to let go of anything that might give his attorney the right to ask as many questions as possible, so he said OK to the abatement, but not her proposal for divorce, as far as I know. I believe they are still legally married- at least I have read all the published court documents and don’t see a divorce decree. Anybody else?
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/terri.pdf
There are not supposed to be any petitions before the court during the 2-year abatement unless it is to end the abatement early. Both the parties can continue with discovery – however, the only way we are likely to know anything has been “discovered” or discussed or questioned, is if it ends up in a court document, unfortunately.
Another reason Kaine may have declined to accept her proposal, IMO, is that if he just said yes to all of it, he would have been in the position of acknowledging that she deserved a share of the assets of the marriage. If he believes that she had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance, the MFH, and/or anything else criminal, he isn’t going to want to give her even a penney of a share of his assets if he can help it. (Not saying that’s a legal possibility, just the way I think most people would feel.)
Imo LE would truthfully back up they are investigating her for violent crimes because they haven’t cleared her. However when they put it in an affidavit to KM to back up the RO, or testify on the record in the divorce hearing,
I’ll believe it is tailored to only her.
Imo Rackner had to add that language,
and someone cued her in, because the
potential for violence is the whole ground for an RO.
10-4, over and out. It’s so easy to over-complicate things in this case because of how many branches this dang tree (the case) has, it’s almost refreshing when an explanation is simple! Thanks, Blink : )
sorry, left out the article snippets:
Kyron’s biological mother, Desiree Young, said investigators shared e-mails with her that Terri sent friends. She said in them Terri talked about hurting Kyron. Desiree said she now believes Terri is capable of doing so.
“Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,” she told KATU News Monday evening by phone. “I don’t understand how you can feel that way about a 7 year old.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html?tab=video&c=y
November 16, 2010 article, and video containing audio of DY speaking over the phone
IMO It’s like you took a lot of sentences from various articles out of context and mismatched them together to say what you you wanted them to say.
Amy’s Sister says:
June 29, 2012 at 12:30 pm
According to LE and Desiree the evidence against Terri will surprise us, may be something we wish we didn’t know about, make us want to throw up, and prove that she is capable of harming Kyron in the worst possible way. The evidence shows that Terri may have been involved in violent crimes.
——————-
“According to LE and Desiree the evidence against Terri will surprise us, may be something we wish we didn’t know about”
The may surprise statement which was made by Stanton(not Desiree) said nothing about Terri Horman. In fact I thought that the case might surprise us because they found out the culprit may not be Terri Horman as they first believed. And the part about things they wish they didn’t see said nothing about TH at all.
-snip
“I know I’m taking a long pause on that, I have to think through that answer. I think there are things that come out of this investigation that will surprise you, that you’ll think about later on when it’s over. We have a knowledge of things we don’t want to know about … of things we wish we didn’t know,”
http://www.kgw.com/news/Sheriff-No-evidence-Kyron-Horman-is-not-alive-103003704.html
————
“we wish we didn’t know about, make us want to throw up, and prove that she is capable of harming Kyron in the worst possible way.”
The make us throw up statement was made by Desiree and had nothing to do with anything LE said.
—————
“As far as evidence shows that Terri may have been involved in violent crimes”.
I did not see the word EVIDENCE in Ratners statement.
This is what the article says
-snip
Kaine Horman’s petition for renewing the restraining order also noted, “Respondent is being investigated by law enforcement for her involvement in violent crimes.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/
kaine_hormans_restraining_orde.html#incart_river_default
Could the 2 year mark have anything to do with accessing civil litigation? The time frame seems to coincide. Would there be an extension of the RO without the suit DY filed?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/kaine_hormans_restraining_orde.html#incart_river_default
Snipped again!>>>
Kaine Horman’s petition for renewing the restraining order also noted, “Respondent is being investigated by law enforcement for her involvement in violent crimes.”
———–
I’m curious as to why this doesn’t say “for her POSSIBLE involvement” or “for her ALLEGED involvement” in violent crimes.”
If this is referring the the MFH and/or Kyron as the violent crimes, shouldn’t it read “her possible OR alleged involvement”? After all, TH has not been charged with anything,or named a suspect or even a POI (so far as we know). I hate to nit pick with one word here, but one word can make all the difference in any legal document.
OTOH, if she has been involved in some other violent criminal activity, well what on earth could that be? And if said investigation(s) have not found evidence to publicly implicate or even arrest her, I don’t understand how can the RO can be written as it is, with LE backing it up.
I hope I’m making sense here, if not please let me know.
If random pedo why the heck isn’t TH seeking visitation with her daughter?
Amy’s sis- I am aware of that comment from Staton, and we have referenced it several times, I was asking you to separate out what is linkable, and what is not factual from your complete commentary.
ie: no evidence of violence or any other has ever been linked to TH.
TIA
B
___________
Delayed due to my two grown kids staying with me for the week (yay!) but it looks like CD has taken care of it.
I’ll add that if we’re to take the restraining order at face value we are led to believe that Terri Horman has been linked to violent crimes.
This case is so secretive and odd in its’ evolution that IMO there must be some much larger implications in whatever it was Terri Horman was connected with and which ultimately led to Kyron’s disappearance.
It is here SZ will be found. In my opinion.
The only prob is that with all the information on lock down we really have no idea which direction to look. The dead body of Javier may be a possible clue:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Dead-man-found-in-NW-Portland-area-117489748.html
The fact that Port of Portland police were asked to be involved in the investigation may be a clue. DAD is an obvious clue. Terri’s extra curricular activities might be a clue. RS and associates (was he undercover?). Staton’s comments that a larger investigation stemmed from all of this and things he and his officers wish they didn’t know about. The Fed involvement. The letter at the Wall of Hope (which I still believe was written by someone involved).
Somehow these things are linked and somewhere in that hodgepodge lies the link to SZ. IMO.
WPG says:
…“Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,” she told KATU News Monday evening by phone. “I don’t understand how you can feel that way about a 7 year old.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html?tab=video&c=y
November 16, 2010 article, and video containing audio of DY speaking over the phone
___________
If I knew my husband’s wife, who had been caring for my child for most of his life, had written similar emails I would want to throw up also. What a horrifying discovery.
If broken down, this appears to be motive on Terri’s part, doesn’t it? She, according to Desiree who has read the emails herself, blamed Kyron for her failing marriage.
Terri was accused of MFH in front of the grand jury. If this is true, is not it so difficult to imagine she took part in the disappearance of Kyron. IMO, LE has more evidence of the MFH than just RS’s testimony or it wouldn’t still be held up in the restraining order preventing a mother from seeing her toddler child for years on end.
I don’t believe she took Kyron herself but she left him to the wolves and IMO she did so intentionally and knowing that great harm would come to him as a result.
Above all else, who is the POS who walked into a school and took a little boy?