Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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Blink? In your opinion does David Durham know SZ?
I guess I imagine DAD driving a white pickup and others possibly mistaking him for Terri, meanwhile he is assisting SZ.
I’m reminded of the man who resides near the search area north of Skyline and his account of seeing a woman driving a white pickup up to the gated edge of the forest.
justice23 says:
July 8, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Off topic, does anyone happen to maybe know if the bathroom Brown waited near at the Wendy’s to attack the 10-yr old was inside or outside the restaurant? Assuming all modern fast food places have their bathrooms on the inside nowadays but wasn’t sure. If it was in fact inside as I suspect, what he did was gutsy because anyone could’ve easily have noticed and heard him waiting outside by the bathroom so how I really expected to carry out his plan and get away before anyone caught him, I have no idea. I always thought most SO’s did things like that in less public places so they wouldn’t get noticed or caught? I think I maybe need a reality check after this one.
——————
@justice23 -
I believe the bathroom is inside. I have not been in that Wendy’s but I’ve been in others that are close by and built exactly the same as far as I can tell. The place is small, but the bathroom may still be out of the vision line for most customers or workers. I don’t know if I can describe this very well, but when you walk in the door from the parking area, the bathroom is often down a very short hall to the right, the tables all to the left, and the line to order food straight ahead. The best view of the bathroom is if you are seated at a table facing the bathroom and along the wall as you first walk in, or just as you walk in the door. Most people tend to not look directly at bathroom doors without a reason because it doesn’t seem polite. I think this is also a fairly generic floor plan for any small fast food place.
I agree it was gutsy – or maybe desperate is a better description. We have to remember that Adam Brown also appears to have a mental illness which I would guess to be bi-polar disorder since he was supposed to take medication and was said (I believe by his wife) to have manic episodes. I do not believe our legal, justice, or correction systems deal adequately (to say the least) with people who have multiple problems.
IMO, when assessing the degree of risk in relation to any particular offender, until we have ways (if ever) to assure they do not miss medication and/or do not use drugs and alcohol, we have to assess the risk as though they do NOT take medication and they DO use drugs/alcohol. If we summarize a report by saying “if the subject does this and that, then the risk is minimal”, we are fooling ourselves into thinking the public is protected, the subject is getting the help he or she needs, and those writing the reports and monitoring compliance are “off the hook”.
By the way – I still haven’t figured out why the arresting agency for this latest batch of crimes by Adam Brown is listed as Tri-Met Police. I didn’t see any connection to buses and light rail. Also the “reckless burning” unless he lit a cigarette in the bathroom?
INMATE INFORMATION
SWIS ID: 115977
Name: Brown, Adam Lee
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Race: White
Height: 5 ft 8 in
Weight: 145 lbs
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Blue
Arresting Agency: Tri-Met Police
Arrest Date: 7/1/2012 2:00 PM
Booking Date: 7/1/2012 9:56 PM
Current Status: In Custody
Assigned Facility: MCDC
Projected Release Date: Unknown
Court Case No. 120732992 DA Case No. 2247267 Citation No. None
Charge Bail Status
KIDNAP I (A Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
ATT MURDER (A Felony) $0 Disposed
ASSAULT I (A Felony) $0 Disposed
ASSAULT I (A Felony) $0 Disposed
ASSAULT I (A Felony) $0 Disposed
ASSAULT I (A Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
SEX ABUSE I (B Felony) $0 Disposed
ARSON I (A Felony) $0 Disposed
FALSE INFO (A Misdemeanor) $0 Disposed
COERCION (C Felony) $5,000 Unsentenced
KIDNAP I (A Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
ATT AGGR MURDER (A Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
KIDNAP II (B Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
ATT SEX ABUSE I (C Felony) $5,000 Unsentenced
ATT SEX ABUSE I (C Felony) $5,000 Unsentenced
ASSAULT II (B Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
ASSAULT II (B Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
ASSAULT II (B Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
ASSAULT II (B Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
ASSAULT II (B Felony) $250,000 Unsentenced
STRANGULATION FEL (C Felony) $5,000 Unsentenced
RECK BURNING (A Misdemeanor) $2,500 Unsentenced
RECK BURNING (A Misdemeanor) $2,500 Unsentenced
Court Case No. None
DA Case No. None
Citation No. None
Charge Bail Status
PAROLE OR PPSV VIOL (U Felony) $0 Unsentenced
Has the Pumela connection to this case been totally negated? I remember reading about a house boat (Sauvie Island), also about cadaver dogs who twice scented death at that same location. Was it all thoroughly checked out?
Also wondered exactly what the parents were involved in that they aren’t more help to LE? You would think they would bend over backwards to assist as much as they can, even if embarrassing past incidents come back to haunt them? Maybe they have said, and LE is just not sharing.
Poor little boy. I think about him often, especailly now that it is summer and all the little kiddies are out playing and laughing and having fun. He deserves the same.
I often wonder just who is protecting whom.
The Wendy’s by me you walk in the door
Straight ahead is the bathrooms or turn left to order
It would be possible to stand back in the restroom hall
And not be noticed by people thinking about what to order
I wish I could remember what was decided here about this coincidence, can someone help refresh my memory?
Kim Holms has two sons: Kurtis Holms and Avery Villarreal (older brother). Kurtis, was a good friend of Kyron’s; he went bowling with Kyron and Terri two days before Kyron went missing. He also did his science project on the Green-eyed Tree Frog, displaying it right next to Kyron’s. Reportedly, Terri took a picture of Kurtis standing next to his project. Avery Villarreal, the older brother had a devil-worshiping MySpace page, which has since been cleaned up, but was once quite disturbing.
http://www.myspace.com/496471897
Also, almost every link I could find on Avery has been shut down..
Kim Holms address: NW Cornelius Pass Rd Portland, OR 97231
is right near Jim Kelly – who said he saw that suspicious white truck (with a red haired woman in it?)
Day 3: FBI calls in criminal profiler in search for missing Skyline boy; interviews with students and parents begin
Published: Sunday, June 06, 2010, 2:14 PM
Updated: Friday, June 18, 2010, 5:01 PM
1:29 p.m. — Neighbors stop by Brooks Hill Historic church, across the street from the school, to mull over the investigation. “This kind of thing is unheard of,” says Jim Kelley, 50.
Kelley, who lives about a mile and a half downhill, at the end of a winding, secluded country lane off Cornelius Pass, said police, federal agents, K-9 teams and helicopters scoured the area Saturday.
“We had two odd sightings of a vehicle on our road Friday,” Kelley said. Around 3 p.m, he and a neighbor reported seeing a white pick-up truck with a female driver pull to the end of the long road, idle and then turn around. Then again at 2 a.m. Saturday morning, a similar white pickup truck appeared, idled and when a neighbor loosed her dogs, eased away.
“A, it was strange to have a car there, any car there, that we didn’t know, and B, it was strange to have a vehicle come down our dead-end road twice in the same day, hours after a little boy goes missing,” said Kelley. “That’s beyond rare.”
Kelley said authorities have twice searched the deep ravine, creek and railroad tracks located near the end of his street by air and on foot.
If the numerous witnesses that saw Ky leave with SZ are children, that would explain LE not revealing a description or further information about SZ, for their protection. TH may also be hiding for her own protection. She was concerned about Kiara’s safety in her email to KH – “OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe.”
I am beginning to get the feeling that SZ is extremely dangerous… not just a fondler but a killer, and that he will likely re-offend. Yet, most of the community seems to believe that TH did this and they are not demanding answers, protection, information, etc.
So, we either have a community of divided beliefs – those parents of children who witnessed Ky leaving with SZ and have kept quiet versus those who believe TH did this.
Or, the witnesses described SZ as looking like TH in which case all may believe that TH is responsible. This is important in Blink’s guidance for a town hall meeting.
As for the receipt, I have never bought that. TH had friends with bat phones, she could have had friends picking up receipts. Receipts generally have no name, after all. Here is the link for A Lackey’s interview with KOIN regarding seeing TH at FM that morning, she states some time between 0930-1000:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Grand-jury-witness-shares-her-encounter-with/ZRn4GrYpt0a0BAxulU8rEA.cspx
And, what did AL mean by this: “Only (Terri) knows the truth about what happened that day,” she said.
@January
Avery Villarreal…interesting. I saw his myspace website shortly after Kyron went missing. Disturbing it was. Hopefully he’s been checked out by LE.
January says:
July 9, 2012 at 10:48 am
——–(snipped)
KH claimed that he arrived home around 2pm, got something to eat, and worked at home until the school bus arrival time, around 3:30-ish.
Jim Kelly’s claim was that a white pick up truck with a female driver was on his road around 3pm.
That is before LE is every involved in anything, and before the 911 call from the school.
Consider: that KH did not get home at 2pm, and that TH had been on Kelly’s road around or shortly before 3pm (Kelly did phrase this timeframe as “around 3pm?), that there is no absolutely clear description of how long the truck was idling on his road, that TH turns around and returns to the house in time for the bus, and also in time for KH’s arrival home. Or, KH is already home when she gets back.
This is just my newest speculation. I realize that if KH worked from home on a laptop that he would have online log ins, computer work date and time stamped, etc. Thus, if he was indeed working at home (and on a laptop) in the 2pm-3:30 pm range, that could quickly be verified. BUT…if he uses a laptop (probably), he does not have to physically be IN the home in that time frame of about 90 minutes. IF he was working using a ‘puter, his wireless of course would be active on a laptop. That connection could be garbled up from anywhere, not just a connection at his home. My musing all depends on KH’s “work at home” involving using a laptop. He never publicly stated what he was working on — didn’t necessarily have to be anything that required using a computer. But yes, all those details could be verified by LE (location of his wireless server/connection, times on it, etc.).
Now, let’s say that TH is on Kelly’s road “around” 3pm, idles briefly, and then returns home. It’s still before the bus arrival time. KH comes home a few minutes later, or is already home. Works a bit. Eats something, puts shoes on Kiara, and off they all go to the bus.
In my totally imagined scenario, why is TH on Jim Kelly’s road at that time, why would KH state he was home earlier than he was, how could his time frame at home after leaving the office be verified if he was not online while working, and why, when he did arrive home, was he not later telling anyone in any interview “I asked TH where the hell the SF project was since she wanted my freakin’ truck that day to pick it up.” And remember of course, that Kiara certainly can’t be a witness to her father’s time at home that day — it’s not like a toddler looks at a clock and says “oh, goody, it’s 2pm, Daddy’s home!” Only KH and TH know exactly what happened in their home when he returned from work, and at what time he and she were actually in the house right before the bus arrived.
In police interviews, and via KH and DY’s statements after June 4th, they suggest that they’ve passed polys with flying colors. DY would not have been asked questions about KH and TH’s time line in the Horman home that day because she wasn’t there until later in the evening. ONLY TH and KH would offer conflicting information to LE regarding that period of time on June 4th. Now, if KH and TH are the laptop users I suspect they are, both of their online connections could be verified that day — times on, times off, sites visited, etc.
But, in my area, if I’m about 2 miles from my house, I can have a wireless connection on a laptop and it would be different from the hardline I have at home. But if I used wireless at home, how would that connection be viewed by LE, versus my connection two miles away when I’m in my car and sending an email to someone? We don’t have a zillion different providers up here — Verizon, Time Warner is about it, a few tiny companies otherwise.
Once again, no matter how ick TH’s behavior appears to have been, why is KH’s “timeline” information set in stone and was never publicly questioned? Because it was either verified 100%, no doubts about it, or, because it’s verification was possibly not even possible because KH might not have been “working” online in the first place. People still do read, write in longhand, view material on a computer without being online, etc.
KH has phrased his words recently to suggest that he believes KH might still be alive. Did he know something that day, before coming home from work, about the abduction?
Was there a message to BOTH the Hormans that afternoon — “meet me at such and such a place at 3pm?”
Was that message about “yes, Kyron will be on the bus, but only if you….(fill in activity here).”
And then the couple, with their daughter, marches down to the bus stop — KH making a point to say that TH was lagging behind — only to discover that Kyron was not on the bus?
I would have loved to see their demeanor and body language from bus arrival time to the minutes at the school prior to that first 911 call about Kryon.
All I gots, folks, is crazy stuff at this point.
NelMel- of course I have some background in what Kaine does, not my personal area of expertise but I have had need to source those assets for client builds many times in my consulting days ( O, that youth, lol) so I can say if he is project based then he would need to be on a secure VPN or network, and that would not allow some basic wifi access especially if it was client facing or client network.
Kaine did not work from home nearly as much as he said he did. That is not a criticism, that is fact.
I do not believe Kaine has any knowledge of Ky’s whereabouts or was involved in anything that happened to him whatsoever.
B
I hope we all made it thro this shutting down the Internet
thingy that’s going on today
I seem to be OK so far
I havent posted in a while and am about a week behind in reading, but I just cant help myself from commenting on Kaine…
I get the distinct impression from everything we know, and everything he’s said, that if anyone knows what happened on June 4, Kaine does. His comments about wondering what Kyron’s into and what he enjoys makes me think that Kaine has some idea of who would be giving him such an enjoyable life. Maybe more focus should be on getting Kaine to talk about what/who HE knows.
I also get the impression that Kaine wants to have the appearance of looking for answers, while steadfastly doing NOTHING to get any. It makes me wonder why that would be.
This is all JMO and am not accusing Kaine of anything.
@mas- Definitely. The sketch looks like someone a bit older, but other than that I think its dead on.
————————-
mas says:
July 6, 2012 at 7:29 am
Anyone else see the resemblance between Adam Lee Brown and the Beaverton suspect?
http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/OR19643/Adam-Lee-Brown.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton/index.ssf/2010/08/beaverton_police_release_sketch_of_suspect_in_sexual_assault_at_fanno_creek_park.html
Same age range, face shape, hair style?
Is this the right link? That suspect is white haired and balding- nowhere near mistakable for Brown
N
Interesting. Software that helps predict crimes. Everybody now, behave!!
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/09/tech/innovation/police-tech/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
@erose and @Blink:
Could it be that SZ looks a lot like Terri? (I know she’s not SZ, just to clarify)
———————-
erose says:
July 6, 2012 at 10:44 pm
I mean does SZ look enough like KH that the witnesses may have thought Kyron was with his father?
erose says:
July 6, 2012 at 3:30 pm
Hypothetical –
What if witnesses saw Kyron leave with who they thought was his Dad. KH is utterly generic. I remember Neighbor saying KH was at school the day before, but he was there infrequently, so most people would not recognize him.
erose, not sure what you mean-
Entirely subjective and not what I would call a lead, but I would say no.
B
Blink,
With all your sources in different fields, do you know (or can you suss out) why the November 12, 2010 NBC Dateline episode has never been available for public viewing (except for a few exerpts) after it aired?
Thank you.
Unverified officially- as per contract. No idea who’s
B
@NelMel says:
July 9, 2012 at 3:42 pm
————————
I need to find the link (when I’m not at work) or maybe someone else has it handy – but I know that Kaine said that when he arrived home, TH was there, on her laptop. Just something I remembered.
Great post as always.
I think KH could have come home, as he stated, and found TH on her computer and Kiara playing in her room, as he stated. I think TH could have yelled out, “I’m going to the store” or “I’m going to see Kim” or “I’m going to tell you one thing, but do another” and she would have the time to leave and come back before the bus. KH has not revealed all he knows, and I would think it is at the request of LE.
If TH received a message that Kyron had been taken, and she notified LE, and they (KH,TH,LE) all worked in symatico, under the radar, from the time she found out until the bus came it sure would explain the truck and the mustang going break neck speeds on SI.
If this was originally considered a kidnapping of sorts, I can totally understand a parent still locked into that theory. The theory that their child will be found, not recovered.
NelMel says:
July 9, 2012 at 3:42 pm
The oddest thing of all — to me, anyway — was to see (on TV) KH and TH going to the gym as though nothing had happened, as though their little boy hadn’t been snatched, kidnapped, whatever. How in heaven’s name do parents who have just lost a precious child GO TO THE GYM, FOR PETE’S SAKE? That is just weird.
NelMel says:
July 9, 2012 at 3:42 pm
January says:
July 9, 2012 at 10:48 am
——–(snipped)
oops, sent too soon. I know that if it was I and I had just lost ANYBODY, I’d be jumping up and down and demanding answers and searching places myself, if LE isn’t doing it. weird, and strange.
What kind of people ARE these, and why does Kyron have to be the one to pay for their whatever-behavior?
jden says:
July 9, 2012 at 1:14 pm
(snipped)
Here is the link for A Lackey’s interview with KOIN regarding seeing TH at FM that morning, she states some time between 0930-1000:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Grand-jury-witness-shares-her-encounter-with/ZRn4GrYpt0a0BAxulU8rEA.cspx
And, what did AL mean by this: “Only (Terri) knows the truth about what happened that day,” she said.
——————————-
I keep seeing this 9:30 to 10:00 timeline, but I KNOW I read it differently originally. I think (according to my notes) it was also mentioned in the Hinky Meter which, unfortunately, is gone. I also googled but what I recall didn’t show up until I got to the link below.
Andrea Lechey video
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/ne…AxulU8rEA.cspx
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51491&page=22
Transcript of video posted by Pandora on August 13, 2010:
(snipped)
Investigators contacted Andrea to ask:
If Terri had been in the gym
Wanting to verify if she had been in that day
What time? Where she (Terri) spent her time that day
If Terri had the children with her
Then investigators mentioned Skyline Elementary, which was a school she didn’t know about, and it rang a bell for Andrea because she recalled Terri mentioned Skyline when they met up that day
At Fred Meyer, Andrea didn’t see Terri. Terri saw her and called out to Andrea to get her attention.
Andrea stopped to make small talk, just being polite and making chat with her
Talking about Kiara not feeling well, because Kiara was unwell the day before which Andrea knew (prob from a June 3rd gym visit)
Terri mentioned she was there (Freddy’s) looking for medicine for her baby
“It didn’t seem anything out of the ordinary – just a quick chat. I’m like, OK, have a good day.”
“The only thing that was significant about that time was that she showed me a picture of Kyron next to his project. It seemed like… you know it just seemed like as we chatted about the kids and she’d just come from Kyron’s school that she just made it a point to show me Kyron’s photo.”
Andrea states that Terri said, “I just came from his school and I was working with him on a project …”
Andrea made a point of saying how much she missed doing that (working on projects) because her own kids are much bigger now.
Andrea says Terri responded, “yeah, it’s going on for a couple of hours so I just thought I’d come out and get my daughter’s medicine,” and that was it
When asked if there was anything unusual about the exchange, Andrea relates that “Most of the time when she comes into the club (gym), she’s (Terri) quiet for the most part. She comes in and works out and talks to the people she’s familiar with, but she’s pretty quiet. Very focused, kinda coming in and dropping off her child and going to her workout. So, to me, I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary because she is so quiet, not very social. So… what I would think is odd behavior is just very normal for her, if that makes sense.”
“It was definitely somewhere between 9:30 and 10:00 because I know that I was going to Borders right after and I was on the way to Borders before 10:00″
[MBS says - Andrea was in her car driving before 10 AM. To her, the conversation with Terri seemed long because it was unusual and she was only acquainted with her through the gym. No matter how polite Andrea was trying to be though, it’s a pretty good bet they did not talk for 30 minutes. I have always thought, and said, that my guess is closer to ten minutes for that sort of conversation. In any case, if Terri checked out right after Andrea walked away, she could have easily left there before ten. I have not heard of a receipt from FM #2 – if she didn’t buy anything, that would make it an even shorter exit time. I’m not sure it matters, just trying to be as accurate as possible.]
Reporter asks if Terri seemed at the time like someone who could have just harmed her son.
Andrea shakes her head and says, “No.”
“No. She certainly didn’t seem that way, but she also didn’t seem like this woman who would do all these other things that the news is saying she’s done either. So, uhm… only she knows the truth about what happened that day.”
[MBS says - I think when you read the whole conversation, it appears to me that Andrea was just trying to avoid taking sides when she made that last statement.]
Andrea seems to really want to stress this point (understandably) “I know a lot of people are calling me her friend, but I don’t know her outside of the club (gym) and I’m an employee of the club that she works out at, and … my job is Customer Service and I just make sure that she’s checked in and that everything is going off well with her workout, and that’s it.”
“As a matter of fact, the day that I saw her in the store was the most conversation I’ve ever had with her.”
Reporter asks if Terri knew her by name.
A – “yes, certainly she felt comfortable enough to stop and chat with me because I see her, you know, every day that she works out for the most part.”
Reporter – “Did you ever meet Kyron?”
A – “I’ve only seen him once or twice being checked in to the club, but never really interacted with him. I probably interacted more with Kitty, because she came more often.”
Reporter – “What about Grand Jury? Did you ever expect to have to come downtown?”
A – “I did. And I’m expecting more to come. Uhm… I’ve seen a lot go on and I think that… uhm… any testimony about where she was that day is going to be crucial, you know, in what goes on in the days & months ahead. And I expect it.”
Reporter – “Were there a lot of other people called in at the same time?”
A – “Oh, so many. You know so many, and you know they’re not all her friends and some of the people are just people who spoke with her for just a second, you know, the day that she was at the club, or just you know, the people who would work out with her. They’re calling anyone who has had any relationship with her.”
Reporter – “And it wasn’t just people that saw her that day?”
A- “Not necessarily. Just people who know her. I am sure that they’re trying to develop an idea of her. Uhm, her character. There were many people who I know – there were like 30 poeple there that day that I was there.”
for NelMel:
(July 27, 2010 article snippets)
“But Kaine Horman said nothing seemed out of the ordinary when he came home from his job at Intel just after 2 p.m. the day of the disappearance and found his wife in a chair tapping on her laptop computer.
Terri told Kaine about the school’s science fair and Kyron’s diorama of a red-eyed tree frog. There was nothing about her demeanor that he found peculiar.
“She showed me the photos of Kyron really quick,” he recalled. “I went and found Kiara” — their toddler was playing in her room — “and gave her a hug, grabbed something to eat.”
Within hours, Kaine Horman’s world turned upside down. He would wait for Kyron’s bus with Terri, only to find that his son was missing from school.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/day_of_kyron_hormans_disappear.html
sorry, the article and link was for VHL.
Egads, I must be dizzy from the extreme heat . . .
VHL, here is this article for you:
“Kyron’s Parents Field Questions By E-mail 7-05-2010″
(snip)
Q: Was Kaine working from home the day Kyron went missing? If so, when did Terri get home from the school?
A: KAINE – No, I was in the office that day until about 1:45 and arrived back home a little after 2pm. Terri was already in the house, on her laptop, when I arrived. I kissed Kiara, grabbed some food, and worked from my home office until about 3:30 at which time I put shoes on Kiara and we started walking down toward the bus stop.
http://www.kptv.com/story/14791139/kyrons-parents-field-questions-by-e-mail-7-05-2010
LOL
Happens to me all the time, but you know that
B
what happened to the hinky meter?
Great theory, imo.
Miss Bri says:
July 9, 2012 at 5:34 pm
RedRose says:
July 9, 2012 at 7:14 pm
oops, sent too soon. I know that if it was I and I had just lost ANYBODY, I’d be jumping up and down and demanding answers and searching places myself, if LE isn’t doing it. weird, and strange.
What kind of people ARE these, and why does Kyron have to be the one to pay for their whatever-behavior?
=========================================================
Your comments reminded me that I need to ask BOC peeps for help.
In 2010, and I believe it was before the Horman’s were in court about custody, a person was on a news show — a national show — saying something to the effect of “we don’t do that out here.”
He was referring to how some police investigations in other parts of the country are played out in local media, sometimes in national media, but that in the Portland area, things are kept close to the vest. Anyone remember a news show with an interview like that? I wasn’t seeing things, lol.
It might have been Bruce McCain, but I do not know for a fact now who it was. But that comment struck me as making sense — different regions of the country have their own LE “mood.” Their moods, or, I should say style, would have to affect the families involved in crimes like a missing child, IF such a style of operation was normal and consistent in all criminal investigations.
So, Portland area peeps, is it SOP for your region’s SOP to totally clam up in a case like Kyron’s?
I know that if Kyron was a child who lived in the city that is 50 minutes west of me, the police in that city would aggressively pursue media and public communication. That is their style. It has worked for us in this region and we sort of expect it. If that same police force suddenly behaved as MCSO has, all hell would break loose. No one around here would tolerate it and the county DA would never see another term in office.
Is it then really just a matter of regional differences in how people expect LE to behave?
RedRose says:
July 9, 2012 at 7:12 pm
The oddest thing of all — to me, anyway — was to see (on TV) KH and TH going to the gym as though nothing had happened, as though their little boy hadn’t been snatched, kidnapped, whatever. How in heaven’s name do parents who have just lost a precious child GO TO THE GYM, FOR PETE’S SAKE? That is just weird.
NelMel says:
July 9, 2012 at 3:42 pm
January says:
July 9, 2012 at 10:48 am
——–(snipped)
—————————————————————–
I have to agree…would not have been the thing I would do knowing my child was abducted. We just do not know all the facts.
@wpg – yes, thank you!
@erose – You always trigger my memory! haha : ) Frustration aimed at the situation here: The cars speeding around SI rumor (?), yet another thing not talked about by authorities and barely by locals here, either (went quiet soon after it started – a trend that is becoming a little too common, IMO). So many things piling up in the ‘swept under the rug’ pile. How big is that darn rug?!
All, just me, ,thinking out loud.. Kim Holms, Curtis Holms, Avery Villarreal and Jim Kelly. I can’t stop thinking of the coincidences.. maybe because I don’t believe in them too much.
What runs through my mind is that Kyron and Curtis were friends, maybe they played together a lot. Did Avery Villarreal the (devil worshiping older brother to Curtis) like Kyron? Did Kyron get on his nerves? Terri takes Kyron and Curtis bowling two days before Kyron goes missing. Was Avery around then? Were the boys talking about their similar science projects? (BTW, did anyone happen to notice the difference between the two presentations?) I doubt Kyron bragged that his was better, but I could see how Curtis might have been jealous. Maybe he felt bad that his clearly didn’t measure up to Kyrons. Could Curtis have shared his feelings about that with Avery?
Two days later, Terri lines the boys up in front of their Tree Frog boards at the science fair and takes pictures of them..was Avery at the fair? A short time later Kyron goes missing. A few hours later two rare and suspicious sightings of two white pick ups happen on Jim Kelly’s road.. Jim Kelly’s road is very close to where Avery lived.
Could Terri or her “friends” thought that Avery might have been involved? Were they driving around Avery’s neighborhood looking for Kyron?
What was Terri’s relationship like with Avery?
I also don’t think Kaine had anything to do with Kyron going missing.. I don’t like the guy, and kind of think he is hiding something but thats as far as it goes. I don’t think any of the witnesses confused SZ with Kaine, because if LE thought Kaine left the school with Kyron, they would be looking at him, not Terri.
Tanner Pumala’s grandma, Wendy Furor (sp?), was willing to speak out early on about the school losing Kyron. She allowed Tanner to speak on camera, something the FBI and Staton himself came to her door and told her not to do.
http://youtu.be/6tAZ1FmHtcI
http://youtu.be/IHdLd2SvUSU
I’m not willing to look the other way with regards to Terri’s involvement however it’s becoming more clear to me that the school should not be skating on this issue and that we may have a genuine cover up in an organized effort to protect this public institution.
As a mother of three, one a ten year old boy (exactly Kyron’s age), I just have to say that fear be damned, if my child had witnessed SZ I would be going public. How can doing so possibly hurt the investigation in any way? I’ve said it before, how would my child be in any danger just by giving a description of this guy? Me or my child’s identity would never need to be revealed but like Wendy Furor, I’m not sure I wouldn’t be willing to do that either.
How can someting like this be undone? We can’t bring Kyron back but the community can certainly come together to demand answers for the safety of their own children.
Ultimately the public has the right to know if a coverup is stunting this investigation.
Guess we should be hearing something this week regarding a response to DY’s civil filing against TH.
I hope it proceeds.
Envisioning a stack of supboenas for Skyline School employees et al.
Waiting on the “emails”, who all received them, who all HAD ACCESS to read them (did they motivate some warped mind), and if no one thought to act on behalf of 7 year-old Kyron then why not. I lean towards DY not exaggerating when she said:
“Extreme hatred for Kyron, and she talked about hurting him and things that you just don’t talk about with children,” she told KATU News Monday evening by phone. “I don’t understand how you can feel that way about a 7 year old.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html?tab=video&c=y
I also lean towards these emails as ONE of the potential reasons why TH’s legal team have said in the past they will advise her to plead the 5th, and why “preserving her freedom” takes precedent over her daughter.
Who other than TH had access to her email account and computer, with the alleged motive of not wanting Kyron around anymore?
mosaic says:
November 15, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Hatred of a seven year old? Wow, that is profoundly sad on so many levels.
**
I know, my question is, who the hell was she comfortable enough to write something like that to?
I fear I already know.
B
_________
Blink, are you able to say whom you thought these emails were sent to?
I think I’ve been re-posting this annually and it’s probably about time for a repeat. I have used both of these hints and they’ve been really helpful. I still thank both of these posters for their help.
One additional note – Google advanced search is still available but not on the regular Google search page any longer. After you do an initial search, you can find advanced search on the page that comes up. You may have to click on the gear symbol. Or just search Google for “Google Advanced Search”. The more specific you can be when searching, the better. A plain Google search will work for a topic, of course, but will also bring up other blogs, articles, media comments, etc.
To search for specific things in BOC:
Grey says:
October 7, 2010 at 5:03 pm
To search for specific things in the comments:
Go to Google Advanced Search
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en
Put in words for search
Under “Need more tools?”/”Search within a site or domain” put
blinkoncrime.com
For “Rudy Sanchez” I got 505 results. There is a line from each post, so you can sometimes skim-read to find what you need.
AND – if you know the approximate date of the comments you are looking for, another option is:
1. enumclawrose says:
February 10, 2011 at 3:17 am
Gwen,
This is the page your comment is on. If you change the page # for this link on your browser bar, it will take you to any page you want. Just change the “16″ to “1″ and refresh. You should be on page 1 of this thread. (Note: you cannot do this using the current page as the page # id represented as “#”). Hope it helps. I did this on the last thread of 6000+ comments, looking for comments over a specific date. Once I got the pages of the date I wanted, it was easier to find the comments I was searching for.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-16/#comments
I always wondered if trip to the gym by Kaine & Terri, was to give LE enough time to bug the house. Or maybe Kaine was wearing a wire that day as well, to be alone with Terri without LE or the Youngs around so he could ask certain questions that she would be more likely to answer with just the two of them there.
Unfortunately, this May 16, 2011 interview seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur, but it was definitely an interesting one. (I’m sorry now I didn’t transcribe the whole thing. Does anyone else have it?) You can see it did exist, but all I can find now is the cover story http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-still-waiting-for-break-in-Kyron-case-121963559.html (reference was made to it on SM and there was a tweet about it). http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9317.930;wap2 https://twitter.com/KGWNews/statuses/70360630590324736
Here’s one part I have transcribed:
Kaine:
“I believe there’s some sort of involvement; I don’t know to what level. It could be, directly involved and she’s responsible and she acted alone that day, or someone else is involved either with her, or maybe even, potentially without her.”
Reporter: Kaine Horman explains he confronted Terri several times prior to their separation. “Did they ever ask you to wear a wire?”
Kaine: “Uhhhh, probly (sic) somethin’ I’m not gonna’ comment on.”
Reporter: “Are they looking at anybody else?”
Kaine: “Uh, I don’t have any names in particular. I know that they’re looking at *a lot* of other people.”
***********
Anyway, just wondering if perhaps the gym trip was set up by LE, so they could plant some sort of surveillance apparatus. Does anyone know if Tony & Desiree Young were still staying at the Horman home at the time? If so, it would be interesting to know if they too went out for the morning. Just curious.
The gym trip was Wednesday, June 10, 2010. IIRC, according to KH & DY the parents completed their first LDT’s by Tuesday. Terri on Monday and the others on Tuesday.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/96033344.html?tab=video
“KATU News extended an invitation to Horman’s parents to speak to the media after a reporter found them at a local gym Wednesday after their workout.
But the Horman’s drove off without responding to a question how the media could help.”
**************
I guess what bugged me more about the gym trip, was the fact they were asked how the media could help find Kyron, but they just blew that off. No comment like, just pray or just keep looking or just get his face out there…..nothing, just rudeness and silence. Which also makes me think that perhaps Kaine was wearing a wire, *had been given a job to do*, and just wanted to get it over with. Totally focused on *the job* and all its potential ramifications.
Just my take on the gym trip.
Blink’s remark “utterly generic” made me think about what that would be; average height, average weight, in Skyline area probably caucasian male, short hair, etc. So it is a description that KH fits. If I was a witness that went to soccer games, for instance, and I saw Kyron with KH a few times, I might not have KH’s face committed to memory, but if I saw Kyron at the SF with someone of that general description I might think it was his father and disregard that he was in danger. I think LE knows that it is not KH, but if they release that description, the public will think the abductor fits the description of KH.
Like Miss Bri stated about TH and DAD. If someone saw Kyron with someone with long red hair, they most likely would think he left with TH. If LE says we have a description of the abductor of long red hair, the public thinks TH, case closed.
I am not sure utterly generic fits DAD, or TH, and I can’t bend my mind around any legit reason LE doesn’t release that description, unless to do so either misleads, or does no good.
January says:
July 10, 2012 at 6:40 am
I don’t think any of the witnesses confused SZ with Kaine, because if LE thought Kaine left the school with Kyron, they would be looking at him, not Terri.
I wonder if Kaine had just been quiet like everyone else in this case
If LE would have said more
The only reason I can think of is that LE might be protecting somebody ‘imporant’ either also in LE (wasn’t there a report somewhere about TH and a LE officer putting something in a trunk) – don’t know where the link is…
I can’t imagine LE doing that, but it’s also odd that so many other agencies got involved so quickly.
Makes one wonder about that I-5 corridor and drug and people smuggling, as well as connections to Mexico, etc.
But I still don’t see why the parents would go along with ANY of that – it is their little boy who is missing. I’d be ALL OVER THEM, and I certainly wouldn’t be acting “normal” like going to the gym…
NelMel says:
July 10, 2012 at 12:27 am
So, Portland area peeps, is it SOP for your region’s SOP to totally clam up in a case like Kyron’s?
I know that if Kyron was a child who lived in the city that is 50 minutes west of me, the police in that city would aggressively pursue media and public communication. That is their style. It has worked for us in this region and we sort of expect it. If that same police force suddenly behaved as MCSO has, all hell would break loose. No one around here would tolerate it and the county DA would never see another term in office.
@erose-
Im of the opinion, and have been for some time, that someone went through a lot of trouble to frame Terri. It never made sense to me that if Terri planned this, there would be a second, identical pick up truck. It just makes no sense. I think whoever did/planned this wanted the time Terri left to coincide as closely as possible with the time Kyron was abducted. Terri was expected to be at the SF until 10am, and I think her leaving early more or less thwarted their plan to make her appear guilty.
I could go on for days (just ask my boyfriend, lol) explaining my theory on this, but I dont even know if I could put my thoughts into a coherently written, reasonably lenghted post lol!
————–
erose says:
July 10, 2012 at 12:05 am
Great theory, imo.
Miss Bri says:
July 9, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Amys Sister says:
July 10, 2012 at 11:44 am
mosaic says:
November 15, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Hatred of a seven year old? Wow, that is profoundly sad on so many levels.
**
I know, my question is, who the hell was she comfortable enough to write something like that to?
——————————————————
I think it may have been RS. I’d like to know the dates of the emails also.
@truth
I haven’t thought about that for a long while, but it makes sense to me that Kaine was wired that day, or that he was ready for her to open up, so to speak.
If we are frustrated with her silence, imagine his frustration.
Prayers today for Kyron Horman.
January says:
July 10, 2012 at 6:40 am
All, just me, ,thinking out loud.. Kim Holms, Curtis Holms, Avery Villarreal and Jim Kelly. I can’t stop thinking of the coincidences.. maybe because I don’t believe in them too much.
What runs through my mind is that Kyron and Curtis were friends, maybe they played together a lot. Did Avery Villarreal the (devil worshiping older brother to Curtis) like Kyron? Did Kyron get on his nerves? Terri takes Kyron and Curtis bowling two days before Kyron goes missing. Was Avery around then? Were the boys talking about their similar science projects? (BTW, did anyone happen to notice the difference between the two presentations?) I doubt Kyron bragged that his was better, but I could see how Curtis might have been jealous. Maybe he felt bad that his clearly didn’t measure up to Kyrons. Could Curtis have shared his feelings about that with Avery?
Two days later, Terri lines the boys up in front of their Tree Frog boards at the science fair and takes pictures of them..was Avery at the fair? A short time later Kyron goes missing. A few hours later two rare and suspicious sightings of two white pick ups happen on Jim Kelly’s road.. Jim Kelly’s road is very close to where Avery lived.
Could Terri or her “friends” thought that Avery might have been involved? Were they driving around Avery’s neighborhood looking for Kyron?
What was Terri’s relationship like with Avery?
I also don’t think Kaine had anything to do with Kyron going missing.. I don’t like the guy, and kind of think he is hiding something but thats as far as it goes. I don’t think any of the witnesses confused SZ with Kaine, because if LE thought Kaine left the school with Kyron, they would be looking at him, not Terri.
_________________________________________________________________
I read once that Kim Holm had an ad in the RidgeRunner for her teenage soccer players to do yardwork and such for people to fundraise for soccer. Was Avery ever a part of that(I can’t imagine Avery being an average teenage soccer player!)? Did Terri ever hire these boys to do yardwork (perhaps pre-landscaper days)?
RedRose says:
July 10, 2012 at 5:13 pm
The only reason I can think of is that LE might be protecting somebody ‘imporant’ either also in LE (wasn’t there a report somewhere about TH and a LE officer putting something in a trunk) – don’t know where the link is…
I can’t imagine LE doing that, but it’s also odd that so many other agencies got involved so quickly.
————-
The( TH and a LE officer putting something in a trunk) was a statement made by a blogger and was in no way a verified report.
Amys Sister says:
July 10, 2012 at 11:44 am
mosaic says:
November 15, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Hatred of a seven year old? Wow, that is profoundly sad on so many levels.
**
I know, my question is, who the hell was she comfortable enough to write something like that to?
I fear I already know.
B
——————————-
Blink, are you able to say whom you thought these emails were sent to?
——————————–
MBS starts here:
(snipped)
Desiree Young appeared on Today Monday morning. She talked about explosive emails that police showed her just last Friday. Sources told KGW that the emails were sent from Terri to an extended member of the family in the weeks just before Kyron’s disappearance.
Kaine held a press conference late Monday morning. He said he could not comment specifically on anything Desiree said during the Today Show, because he did not watch the interview. But he did confirm that he got the same information about Terri’s emails from police on Friday as Desiree.
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Exclusive–Kyron-Hormans-Mom-Talks-About-Disturbing-Emails–108170584.html
Back in 2010, we discussed at length who the extended family member might be. It appears that this person did not immediately tell Kaine or Desiree or anyone else who might help about Terri’s emails. If you believe the “extended family member” is accurate, that eliminates all of Terri’s friends. I would eliminate her parents because her version of what she tells them always seems to put her in the best light possible. I don’t know how the source defined “extended” but to me, it would eliminate exes. I believe someone suggested Kristian’s ex-wife, but to my knowledge, we never had any definite answer to who received them.
@lyla –
Since the emails were said to be in the weeks just before June 4th, and to an extended family member, that seems to eliminate RS as the recipient.
I can accept that Terri would write multiple emails like this, but what I’d really like to know is how the recipient responded to her. Apparently, Terri’s comfort level was sufficient to allow her to continue writing, but no one else was told about them – or someone knew and took advantage of that knowledge rather than helping.
Another thought about the emails – if Terri was able to write these feelings to someone she felt would accept them, then this is probably not the first time she has shared personal feelings with this person. At least that’s what you would expect. However, Terri was said to be clueless when she did things others didn’t like – such as tossing out materials belonging to the teacher on maternity leave and putting things belonging to someone else out in their yard in the rain to make room for her own things. She was also said to complain about Kaine to people at the gym she did not know on that level of friendship. So it’s also entirely possible she surprised someone with her emails and then misread this person’s motives for letting her continue to vent about Kyron.
I find it easy to believe that she was probably drinking a bit more and that the recipient knew that and attributed some of what she said to alcohol, discounting the need to share the emails with anyone immediately, but just my opinion.
Blink –
Without naming names, do you know for certain who received the emails?
Was your original thought “SZ”? Since that would be a connection to Terri, that doesn’t seem to be the answer, unless SZ read them through another source.
Do you think KGW’s sources were more likely to be LE or family members?
Surely no one in their right mind would have expected Desiree to keep the existence of the emails confidential, but I don’t think KGW meant that she and Kaine were the “sources” of the information. Do you?
To be honest, I have no faith until I know every origin and chain of custody the alleged emails can be confirmed, that they are even drafted by TH. How could I?
To date, I am unaware of any connection having been established between SZ and TH.
B
More ‘detail’ of what the 10y/o boy went thru [@Wendy's]w/POS Brown
The fire investigator found the burned paper, two lighters and a bottle of baby oil, according to the affidavit.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Court-document-outlines-attack-on-10-year-old-boy-in-bathroom-162006245.html#fin_main
Riverpearl, I snipped you because as sick and sad as it is, I am concerned that content may be too much for some readers.
B
@erose – I guess I wonder, if SZ hypothetically had a generic description that could possibly match KH, why all the heat & fuss, flyers, and pics of TH? I’m asking this in all sincerity and respect, as maybe you have a pov I haven’t looked at. Thanks in advance!
@mbs. not thinking clearly here but grateful for your AL review. I always frlt from her comments AL did not like Terri (who does?). I always thought AL was a person from the gym (generic).
I was startled to read then that AL is the gym’s own employee. a Customer Service repr. And what that means, from your urls, is she “checks people in to the gym”!
Imo that makes her the front desk check- in person who scans the membership card or whatever, and therefore she is most likely the person Terri asked if Kaine was there and to let her know if Kitty was there–the person who told Briede Terri was in jeopardy of abducting her own child and who kicked off those kidnapping headlines. Now in your url, mbs, AL says Terri rarely had conversation with her. So whence the animus?
Those url quotes of AL are frightening to me as a citizen because AL says the GJ was hearing from anyone who’d ever even figuratively rubbed shoulders with Terri, friend or foe but mostly distant acquaintenance, to get an idea of her character. Which one of us would want all the people we’d crossed paths with to assess our character to a grand jury?
NelMel says:
July 9, 2012 at 3:42 pm
January says:
July 9, 2012 at 10:48 am
——–(snipped)
KH claimed that he arrived home around 2pm, got something to eat, and worked at home until the school bus arrival time, around 3:30-ish.
Jim Kelly’s claim was that a white pick up truck with a female driver was on his road around 3pm.
That is before LE is every involved in anything, and before the 911 call from the school.
Consider: that KH did not get home at 2pm, and that TH had been on Kelly’s road around or shortly before 3pm (Kelly did phrase this timeframe as “around 3pm?), that there is no absolutely clear description of how long the truck was idling on his road, that TH turns around and returns to the house in time for the bus, and also in time for KH’s arrival home. Or, KH is already home when she gets back.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
From July, 2010:
1. Sondra says:
July 23, 2010 at 1:51 am
Could DeDe be the red head in truck…
“On that Friday at around 3:00 PM. Kelley saw a white pick-up truck with a female driver pull to the end of the road, idle and then turn around. Kelly thought this very odd, but it happened again at 2:00 AM Saturday. What was this lady in the white truck up to? Words of Kelly: That`s beyond rare. ”
or remember there were “reports” on SI of truck & red mustang(?)
or the white pu that pulled out in front of “Chas” and HE saw a red haired woman(?)
This is exactly who I believe was in that truck. She is FOS also, her vehicle was processed as well.
B
http://www.kgw.com/home/Court-docs-detail-attack-on-boy-in-Wendys-restroom-161971825.html
Court docs detail attack on boy in Wendy’s restroom
Charges filed into court allege Adam Brown, 49, trapped the boy in the restroom and stabbed him in the neck, hands, and legs while trying to sexually assault him.
The affidavit described how the boy went to the restroom and Brown locked the door. Then, it said that Brown ordered the boy to take his clothes off at knifepoint. The boy screamed and fought back and was able to eventually get out after he had been stabbed at least six times, the court document said.
Patrons pushed against the bathroom door, trapping Brown inside until police arrived and evacuated the restaurant.
Brown, already a paroled sex offender, threatened he had a gun. leading to a standoff with police. Documents said Brown asked to call his parents because he “was going to prison … because I hurt the kid.”
He surrendered about two hours later.
Two fires had also been set in the restroom, documents showed.
(snipped, more @ link)
***********
Almost sounds like Brown was wanting to return to prison.