Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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Thanks Lyla and T. Ruth for your explanations about what money Rudy was trying to collect during the sting.. makes sense. I agree with you T. Ruth, why would Terri call LE with Rudy’s threat if she had tried to hire him? Terri must have been interviewed by LE about Rudy approaching her.. I wonder what she told them… Ah, my landscaper came to my house and tried to set me up to give him money and said he would say that I tried to hire him to kill my husband if I didn’t? Her word against his. Could this question be what caused her to fail her poly? Nothing was ever reported about what question she failed..
Protecting witnesses means SZ can be close in and would have access to harm the witnesses. School… or family. Yet, the Skyline parents arent concerned for child school safety absent the witness being known? There is a reason that they feel SZ will not strike unless known. Anger, retaliation. Why does LE feel this is an isolated incident? Family? I recall DY saying something about someone close to the family… I’ll try to find the quote.
I read on SM awhile back that SH has a penchant for strippers. How would this tie in to this being a sexually motivated crime?
If SZ is SH, maybe they know it but cannot prove the connection. I have a feeling that the witness description is moot because they know who it is, and if we saw the composite we would too.
Are flight plans public record? Can we find out if SH is still actively flying for Horizon?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/116674214.html
DY: “Kyron’s story is not one of a child that wandered away from a school, or was abducted by a stranger,” said Young. “It was somebody close to our family. We know that Terri blamed Kyron for her failing marriage, and wanted him out of her life. She put that all in writing. We know that Terri is responsible, and yet she remains silent.”
DY clearly stated on 02/2011 that this was NOT a stranger abduction. That is was somebody close to their family.
Brian P is an electrician, yes? Cool electric. And TP stated in his media interview that he found out Kyron didn’t come home when his dad (BP) saw it on the news:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tAZ1FmHtcI
And the Pumala family lives on same street as Horman.
Tanner’s grandmother (WF) stated: “It would have to be somebody that, I would think that, Kyron knew or trusted. Kids just don’t vanish.”
Important: Tanner told WF he saw TH leaving the school building and Kyron was NOT with her.
Media reports that WF says MCSO and FBI asked them not to speak with media but she did anyway to keep the case “moving forward.”
SH ex-wife is Bobbie Gail Alsafadi Harmon. Lives in Arizona.
Ann Marie P is BP sister. She has lived in OR and also Longview, WA. Related to Heidi P who lives in Longview, WA. Also related to Eugene Lee P.
http://usidentify.com/ann-pumala/profile/8007v0
Steven Michael H shows addresses in OR and also Vancouver, WA.
FOX 12: You’ve all said recently that you think someone else besides Terri may have been involved in Kyron’s disappearance. Do you have any theories about who that may be?
Kaine Horman: currently I do not although i do believe that it is someone that Kyron has met before, whether I know of the person or they were only a friend of Terri’s.
And, finally, here again is the SF photo with MM:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=man+in+science+fair+photo+kyron&num=10&um=1&hl=en&biw=1665&bih=827&tbm=isch&tbnid=-BVbGi2uh4AIIM:&imgrefurl=http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/22/kyron-horman-update-man-spotted-in-photo-from-stepmoms-facebook-page/&docid=M0drWAsjJtV06M&imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1155/4724545835_952f0d5e71.jpg&w=500&h=375&ei=M5QGULOUGoi_rQG1xtXBCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1179&vpy=152&dur=672&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=123&ty=98&sig=112166469146700462439&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=139&tbnw=185&start=0&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0,i:87
“Officer Steve Harmon officially retired from the Bureau on Friday, September 17,1999. Steve, who worked out of Northeast Precinct, was honored by his fellow officers for his 25 years of outstanding police work. Officer Harmon will be working at his second career as a pilot for Horizon Airlines.”
“Horizon Air Industries is a Regional Airline that serves the Pacific Northwest, and is a part of Alaska Air Group and sister company to Alaska Airlines. Horizon Air is about 3,350 employees strong and serves more than 45 cities in Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Mexico, British Columbia and Alberta. The company was recognized by Air Transport World as the “Regional Airline of the Year” in 2007 and holds the highest ranking of all regional airlines in Condé Nast Traveler Magazine’s Readers Choice Awards list. Horizon Air has been presented the Diamond Award of Excellence by the FAA for ten years running.
Horizon Air has a general office in Seattle, its primary maintenance base in Portland, and additional maintenance facilities in Boise, Los Angeles, Eugene, Pasco, Seattle and Spokane.” – LinkedIN profile.
On LinkedIN, his duties as LE were police patrol, field training officer and air support pilot.
Wikipedia: “Field training officers usually receive specialized classroom training and certification to meet state requirements (such as POST, TCLEOSE or EMT) before performing field training duties for the department they work for.”
So, it is possible that SH would have trained at the local FD for his role as FTO. Possible Dad conx.
I would also imagine that a FTO would have highly skilled computer tools and access to private and public records.
Photo of SH with Miss Washington:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-VuymTS61kw0/T8ORj3m37NI/AAAAAAAAAAo/FWzPfVh18Nw/s1024/PART951311466018248.jpg
View pictures on SH Facebook page. Pictures of him, his houseboat (SI?), suggestive him with four very young women in bikinis.
Portrait of a Child Abduction – Interesting article (it may have already been posted here already):
http://thealphabetkiller.com/portrait-of-a-child-abduction-murder/
Nearly one-fourth of the killers returned to, or drove past, the spot where they left the body—and 83.3 percent of those continued to do so until the body was discovered. Sixteen percent confessed to someone about their involvement in the crime, and another sixteen percent left town right after the murder. Of particular interest is the fact that one in ten killers played the role of a Good Samaritan by “interjecting” themselves into the murder investigation under the guise of wanting to offer assistance. The people most often attributed with finding the children’s bodies are passersby (55.3 percent of the time), as in Carmen’s and Michelle’s case; police, like in Wanda’s case (25.4 percent of the time); a member of the search party (5.9 percent of all cases), relative or acquaintance of victim (4.4 percent of victims), the killer (2.8 percent of cases), a member of the fire department or aid crew, also as in Michelle’s case (2.2 percent of the time) or a witness to the death (1.7 percent of all cases studied).
Three out of every 100 child abductors pretend to discover the body of the child they killed. Ten percent had the gall to contact the victim’s family, and ten percent contacted the police or the media. Another interesting point the study found is that the name of the killer is “likely to be in the investigative file within the first week” of the murder investigation—often during the neighborhood canvassing stage—and that half the time, police had contact with the killer well before they first suspected him of being involved. One of the more sobering statistics was the fact that in 34.7 percent of these child abduction murders, the police still had no primary suspect a month later. In a quarter of the cases, police found evidence “deliberately discarded” by the killer. It was found along a road within a mile of the body recovery site in 56.5 percent of the cases (like Carmen’s and Michelle’s coats).
Polygraph tests were used in 47.1 percent of the cases reviewed. In 33.8 percent of the people polygraph tested, deception was shown, even if they were not the killer. More than a third of detectives felt that use of lie detection technology did not prove helpful to their investigation. Contrary to what authorities might fear about the media jeopardizing their murder case, as a whole, media coverage is far more likely to affect an investigation positively than to get in the way—as it may have when Miguel Colon evaded capture by District Attorney Lazarus in San Juan. Three-quarters of the time, police solicit the assistance of the news media at some point in the investigation. The number of witnesses who come forward because of news stories far outweighs the possibility that the coverage will assist the killer in any way.
***So back to Stensen, it was stated that Stensen parked in the main parking lot to obtain the gate key from inside the school and then returned it. Has this “been verified”?? Or just assumption?? His timeline changed to 8:45 to 9 (after what I assume, he could not verify where he was before his next job).
Last time Kyron was “seen” by a witness was 8:45 to 9am
Source: http://www.bringkyronhome.org/news/
*******
After trying to validate Blink’s claims of a description of SZ, I have been told that only one person gave a description of a person and LE has not been able to confirm by a second witness therefore the description has not been released.
Mad-told by whom? That is absolute misinformation?
@mas
(snipped) “After trying to validate Blink’s claims of a description of SZ, I have been told that only one person gave a description of a person and LE has not been able to confirm by a second witness therefore the description has not been released.
——————————————————————
I still maintain nothing was out of the ordinary for the folks in or around Skyline on June 4. They would have no reason to focus on Kyron. A perfect environment for a perp that took full advantage of the situation.
I haven’t been able to find the whole previously looking at Stensen posts unless someone can provide a link and then I will shut up but here are some thoughts.
Stensen parked in main lot to obtain the key to unlock the gate at approximately at 7:30 – 7:45am.
He unlocked the what appears to be a chain and assuming it was locked with a padlock. (as seen with google maps)
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Skyline+Elementary+School,+11536+Northwest+Skyline+Boulevard,+Portland,+OR&hl=en&ll=45.606915,-122.857082&spn=0.000612,0.001215&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=45.149289,79.628906&oq=skyline+elem&t=h&hq=Skyline+Elementary+School,&hnear=11536+NW+Skyline+Blvd,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97231&z=20&layer=c&cbll=45.606915,-122.857082&panoid=vsx7D6LDXTDXBXebnctptg&cbp=12,5.269999999999982,,0,8.96
He mowed and then returned the key but did he return the key while still parked near the soccer field or did he drive around to the front and “tried” to find a parking space for his truck and trailer when there was “alot” of people still at the school?
or
did he load the mower and walk into the school via the field side door and walk past Kyron’s classroom toward the office and back toward the classroom and out, back to the truck and just “locked the gate without a key”? to avoid the parking issue or ???.
I tried with 3 different padlock’s I have and all three you “can” relock “without” the key.
The office is just 4 doors down from Kyron’s classroom.
Depending on who’s version is correct, whether Kyron was last seen going down the stairs or going 2 classrooms down to “see the cool electric one” all are in the same vicinity that Stensen would have been at during the 8:45-9:00am timeline (IF that is the correct timeline that Kyron was last seen and LE (nor the family) has not stated otherwise.
Motive? = crime of opportunity or a promise of money/?? – possible one of two or three involved.
Not trying to bash Stensen but some things just don’t add up for me and I believe that SZ has been in plain site and overlooked.
1. Stenson and the gate/lock- source please.
2. Stenson was well known on sight to many. SZ was not.
B
Young Desiree/Horman Terri Multnomah 7/18/12 3:30 TNGW 208 JUDGE WALLER 120606956 Hearing Case Management
Don’t know how I missed this one yesterday.
https://portal.courts.oregon.gov/egov/portal/!ut/p/c5/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gffzdL5xBXAwN_rwBTA0_XED-zQN9gIwNvU6B8pFm8s7ujh4m5D1DeKMzAwMjPNDjQIDTY2MDTmIDucJB9-PWD5A1wAEcDfT-P_NxU_YLcCIMsE0dFAEzh2e0!/dl3/d3/L0lDU0lKSmdrS0NsRUpJQSEvb01vZ0FFSVFoakVLSVFBQkdjWndqSlFRQVFnIS80QzFiOVdfTnIwZ0RFU1pJSlJDSWtmZyEvN19MT0Y5Q1RFMDBPSlA1MElFVE42UU1TMjBDNi9PcXU5RjM4MDMwMDE1L2libS5pbnYvMjAzODQ5OTc2NTA2/
There is a YouTube video about helping Desiree with funds for her lawsuit against TH.
I was reading over at SM and brought over this post by Grey, thank you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ug25tr4vcs
Mail donations to
Justice for Kyron Horman
P.O. Box 725
Medford, OR 97501
Online donations at
http://www.gofundme.com/kyronhorman
@Jden says:
July 18, 2012 at 7:25 am
Thanks for the picture of Harmon.
JMO, but I don’t think mystery man looks anything like Steve Harmon. Mystery man looks much younger to me. Different cheek bones, much thinner. Mystery man is standing in front of Kurtis Holm’s project and appears to be talking to another adult. Kim Holm maybe? (The one person who said she wasn’t there that day in a video report, but who’s name appears on the list.) Maybe mystery man is an acquaintance of Kim Holm? LE has indicated they already know who mystery man is, so I have a feeling he’s a red herring. But who knows.
@RedRose – I was referencing Rose’s thought of someone ‘playing chaperone’. If someone was pretending to be a chaperone – “a male chaperone” – even for a very short time, the school wouldn’t have assigned him, and may not have neccesarily even known about him (IMO).
——————————
@Rose says:
July 17, 2012 at 6:16 pm
“protecting witnesses means he knows them, or can remember their faces–adult or child.
Makes me think he DID “chaperone” (falsely) a “group” with Kyron in it for a wee while.
Those group children are the best witnesses, and ones he’d most likely remember.”
@RedRose says:
July 18, 2012 at 1:01 am
Well, the school knows who the chaperones are, because they would have assigned them. Was a LE person in the group, even a part-timer?
mas says: July 18, 2012 at 7:43 am
….
Wow, nice information! Thanks for posting.
It is incorrect. I am waiting for mas to name a source I already know. It is incorrect, as it has been on several occasions and I want to be clear on that.
B
Some unanswered questions. What am I missing or didn’t read?
1. Kyron’s science project was dropped off the day before the fair. Kaine was seen at the school that day. Did Kaine drop Kyron off with the project,
2. Terri tells KH that she needs the truck the day of the science fair because it would be easier to transport the project home. She left the school early without bringing the project home. I suspect because she realized that the fair was still ongoing, and that baby K was sick needed to attend to her. It was reported that Terri emailed Kyron’s teacher during the day to see what time she could pick the project up. I assume that the teacher didn’t read/receive the email or answer it, which may be why Terri didn’t go back to the school to get it.
3. Kyron’s teacher told Tanner that Kyron was probably in the bathroom when he asked where he was. I thought she assumed Kyron had a doctors appointment and had left with Terri. Tanner said that Kyron didn’t come back with them and that he was with a sub. Kids could call a “chaperone” a sub, I think. I also think that anyone could tell kids that they were their science fair chaperone, and that they would believe it. Could Tanner have I.D. SZ? Maybe this is what LE didn’t want him talking about.. and maybe he didn’t, intentially.
3. When Kaine arrived home at 2:30, did he ask Terri how the fair went? Did they discuss why Terri hadn’t brought the project home? They were both home early without the project, did it occur to either one of them that they could swing by the school, watch the talent show and then bring Kyron and the project home?
4. Kaine said that he had promised Kyron ice cream after school, was this going to be on their way to drop him off at DY’s? Were they really planning on taking Kyron to DY’s, or had that been put off. Why would Terri harm Kyron, knowing he was leaving for mom’s that day (i.e. getting her much needed time without him).
5. Baby K was not seen inside the school with Terri, but was seen inside the FM shortly after. Was someone watching the baby inside the truck while Terri ran in for awhile?
6. Wasn’t Brian’s property (and SH’s houseboat on SV Island) searched thoroughly very early on? Why start there?
So many questions surrounding the days leading up to and shortly after Kyron’s abduction. It seems like everyone involved is leaving out very important pieces of this puzzle.
Just stumbling around the web, this RSO creep was arrested in Idaho in December 2010. He has a history of crimes in Oregon. According to Radaris, he, at one point lived in Portland. (As well as Grants Pass and another site mentions Beaverton) Anywho, he resembles mystery man to me, particularly if weighed a few pounds less. Though again, I doubt he is mystery man as LE said they knew who MM is. I do wonder where he was living at the time Kyron went missing though. Says he moved to Post Falls Idaho in the fall of 2010.
(snipped, more @ link)
Repeat sex offender gets 15 years to life
May 26, 2011 11 a.m. • 0 comments
A sex offender with a lengthy criminal history in Oregon will serve 15 years to life in prison for molesting a girl in Post Falls.
Roy L. Goldsborough, 52, was arrested in December after a 12-year-old girl told family members about the abuse.
http://66.45.170.167/blogs/sirens/tags/kootenai-county-prosecutors-office/
I amend this to “I still maintain nothing was out of the ordinary for the folks in or around Skyline on June 4 other than the SF.”
@mas
(snipped)”So back to Stensen, it was stated that Stensen parked in the main parking lot to obtain the gate key from inside the school and then returned it. Has this “been verified”?? Or just assumption?? His timeline changed to 8:45 to 9 (after what I assume, he could not verify where he was before his next job).
Last time Kyron was “seen” by a witness was 8:45 to 9am
Source: http://www.bringkyronhome.org/news/”
————————————————————–
I believe Blink said SZ was not on the list of attendees June 4th.
Who stated this? Which gate key? I think we have some rumors circulating.
B
+++++ Private message to Blink ++++++
Hey Blink, just a note to let you know that you are in my thoughts. My mother recently passes away after several months of illness. In the end I was taking care of her. At times, I felt so overwhelmed.. but now I am thankful that I was able to give her that gift, and some of my sweetest memories of her and “us” were during her final weeks.
Stay strong..
January (Sally)
Thank you kindly.
B
@January says:
July 18, 2012 at 4:55 am
“Thanks Lyla and T. Ruth for your explanations about what money Rudy was trying to collect during the sting.. makes sense. I agree with you T. Ruth, why would Terri call LE with Rudy’s threat if she had tried to hire him? Terri must have been interviewed by LE about Rudy approaching her.. I wonder what she told them… Ah, my landscaper came to my house and tried to set me up to give him money and said he would say that I tried to hire him to kill my husband if I didn’t? Her word against his. Could this question be what caused her to fail her poly? Nothing was ever reported about what question she failed..
—————————————————————-
I understood deception as to her whereabouts.
@mas
Interesting study, thanks for the info. May I ask who told you only one person saw SZ? (Not, specifically of course, but LE? a media person? Skyline parent?)
very helpful background info mas.
I hope you are able to privately tell Blink whether
your source was a parent or DA/LE, and if latter,
which jurisdiction generally.
Imo the poly Q Terri failed was her communication/
sexting with RS, as she didn’t know LE had all that.
Imo the person Terri brought close to the family was DD.
You know, with a teen son having an adolescent adjustment reaction
(all those father changes if nothing else)
conflicting with my husband; a teething, active young 1 yo,
and an active young boy requiring support (who’d pulled to grade level in reading
that year iirc); a demanding penny pinching husband; and the house, yard,
and schedule to handle, I too might complain about my stepson in the context of his
mother who had no kids in the house would not file for custody –which he wanted and so could have
been acting out his frustration in the Horman home. marital arguments seem
to have centered on James’ needs vs Kaine’s expectations; when James left, I would
not be surprised if marital arguments just moved down the kid food chain.
And speaking of James, I’ve thought a lot about his welfare recently with the onset of college
in Sept. He merits the chance of a change of scenery, and to go where his fine
intellect & reading interests could take him. Where he is not recognized and can relax & try to
feel normal If he chose it, I would hope out of state public of private would be available to
him. Since Kaine was his household father figure for 7 years or so, and someone
else heftily paid James’ household contribution, and in view of the fact James nurtured, played with, and undoubtedly
babysat Kyron during those years, I am wondering if Kaine has offered to contribute to James’
4 year tuition costs. Were Kaine my son, I’d explain what I see as a moral principle, to aid a good young man in transition to adulthood, in honor of Kyron.
Well some response has been made by TH and attorney’s in regards to Desiree’s suit.
http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Terri-Horman-162949456.html
In court papers, Terry Horman’s lawyers suggest they will file a motion to prevent the 17-year-old from testifying in a civil suit.
Terri Horman doesn’t want son testifying about Kyron’s disappearance
http://www.kgw.com/news/Terri-Horman-162949456.html
http://www.nwcn.com/home/?fId=162949456&fPath=/news/local&fDomain=10202
Snipped from link above:
“The stepmother of missing Portland boy Kyron Horman is trying to keep her other son off of the possible witness stand”
And from the same link at top:
“In court papers, Terry Horman’s lawyers suggest they will file a motion to prevent the 17-year-old from testifying in a civil suit. They also want the case postponed. A hearing was set on the issue for August 15″
Latest
http://www.kgw.com/news/Terri-Horman-162949456.html
Blink, What would be the reason(s) Terri wouldn’t want her son to testify in the civil suit, i.e. he’s a minor?
One of a long laundry list. He won’t.
B
http://www.kgw.com/news/Terri-Horman-162949456.html
Why, Blink? He’s 18. To me TMH attorneys’ rationale can
only be to shield him if he was part of a conspiracy.
Minors testify all the time.
I said one of a long laundry list.
B
James turned eighteen last January. It doesn’t have anything to do with his age anyway, far younger have/will testified.
He was a minor at the time of the alleged incident, it will be argued, as well as other emotionally compromising issues he is/may face. This case will be delayed, as it should, and James will never be deposed.
B
And he’s not a minir.
I agree it’s not good for him emotionally & were I TMH, I’d lay down in front of the bulldozer.
And generally any bio mom with this loss would have no compunction imo about hurting her
rival’s still living teen son. But, what would be the legal grounds to bar?
I guess if I were TMH’s lawyer I’d argue he’d been living in Roseburg and had no recent knowledge of
Horman homelife; was verified to be on a trip during abduction; had no nexus to Skyline or personal knowledge
of the abduction. not a witness to abduction. testimony not relevant. blah blah.
Lea?
OK Blink. Alas, just read your comment after my last post. Reposing trust in the laundry list.
Don’t want to see James go through more.
Now I’m worried about that laundry list.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Terri-Horman-162949456.html
Snipped from above:
“But Terri Horman’s legal team doesn’t want her 17-year old son talking. The 18-year-old son is believed to be living with his mother and her parents in Roseburg”
_________________________________________________________
Well, this initially called him a 17 yr old, it looks like they tried to change it to 18 but it is all messed up.
JM was living with the Hormans as recently as March ’10, three months before Kyron disappeared. I think he could have some relevant things to say. The judge should at least be allowed to hear what he has to say.
Was about to come back after dinner and say knock, knock anybody home?
LOL, I have two posts from early on this morning not up yet.
Which is it, 17 or 18?
But Terri Horman’s legal team doesn’t want her 17-year old son talking. The 18-year-old son is believed to be living with his mother and her parents in Roseburg.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Terri-Horman-162949456.html
IIRC, no one has ever said what part of the LDT Terri may have failed.
IMO, there’s a reason those tests are not used as evidence. Besides that, we’ve actually never even been told by anyone, other than Terri herself, that she failed. Kaine’s, Desiree’s and Tony’s information on the failing came from none other than……Terri Horman. Who, obviously was *told* that by LE that she failed. Doesn’t mean it’s true at all. This sort of tactic is used by LE over and over and over. IMO the LDT info means absolutely nothing, unless you happen to sitting there.
TY for your answer Blink. heartening re James.
I so wish he could leave like any normal boy for college
and the titular father of his teens would
express concern for him as a person and
reassure him of his support, including from the allegedly penurious
wallet.
After living through a year of terror & harassment as a minor in Roseburg, incited by Desiree, one would understand a therapist’s testimony of harm weighed against probative value of the testimony could reasonably block continuing harassment by deposition. Why would Rosenthal even go there professionally? Imagine there’d be a “best interests” of child standard applied here, buttressed by an expert witness.
@Blink no url but I very clearly remember that local Portland press said in 2010 that Stenson had to park at school, go in and get a key from main office that unlocked a gate on that rough road to field for his equipment & he had to return it to main office on departure.
SZ, I gather, was not known on sight to anyone at all at Skyline; or from presumptive background SF pictures, to the family. Deduction: (endorsing Blink) stranger to stranger abduction –
and for what other than the motive she (painfully) nailed?
mas says:
July 18, 2012 at 7:43 am
***So back to Stensen, it was stated that Stensen parked in the main parking lot to obtain the gate key from inside the school and then returned it. Has this “been verified”?? Or just assumption?? His timeline changed to 8:45 to 9 (after what I assume, he could not verify where he was before his next job).
—————-
I always thought that Stensen changed his timeline after talking to LE because the 8:45 timeline made the timeline that LE thought at the time (which implicated TH) somewhat implausible. So after further questioning and examination by LE Stensen rethought the time line to be more compliant with the one which LE had developed.
Well that and at the time LE was not so sure that was not TH truck. It did not fit.
B
So far there is no mention of the TH story re civil suit on the other websites for news around here. I’m watching for them all since it seems we get the most out of compiling the information. This filing was only 2 pages and there is more to come, so perhaps others are waiting for more to write about.
Can we conclude that they couldn’t find grounds to petition to have the suit dismissed? Surely if they thought there was a chance of that, they would have tried. Or maybe they did and were turned down, but you would think word of that would have gotten out.
Only 2 things seem to be covered in this filing. The news video showed a camera shot of the cover page, but not enough to read.
(1) Terri doesn’t want James to be questioned. Since he is no longer a minor in Oregon so I’d like to see on what legal grounds she bases her right to request that. I have assumed in the past that she has never allowed him to be questioned by LE. I do not know if a Grand Jury has the right to subpoena a child without a parent’s permission, but I have assumed he did not testify there either.
Frankly, I think James needs his own attorney. I don’t see how he can be adequately and properly advised by his mother’s legal team or have his rights protected if and when they conflict with hers, even if they claim he has emotional issues or any other kind of problems. (I would hate to see him try to “help” her and end up with a perjury charge.) If they are going to claim he has emotional problems then hopefully, he has been seeing a therapist. Those (therapy) needs, I think, go way back before the DUI conviction.
Side note – Oregon does not have a parent-child privilege statute. A bill for that failed in 2009. Only 4 or 5 states do and it seems mostly designed to keep parents from having to testify against their children, much like a patient-therapist privilege.
(2) They have requested to postpone the suit – not a surprise. They have not said why yet. I wonder if she really thinks all these things can be postponed indefinitely, and what is the longest postponement ever for something like this? At some point you would think the legal balance of protecting an accused person’s rights would shift and some weight would be given to not denying the right of someone to sue another person if so much time is going by that it essentially never happens. We aren’t that far along yet, of course, but I have to wonder (sigh) if this suit will occur in my life time.
Since we are revisiting Stensen’s timeline (and key) again, here are my past notes:
updated timeline version http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html
(snipped)
Stensen told a reporter earlier in the week that he cut the grass on the soccer field between 7:45 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. and never saw the truck on the road.
He had to use the gravel access road to get to the soccer field, only he apparently used it before and after that half-hour window of time.
He met with two detectives and a deputy district attorney at Skyline School early Friday to go over his timeline in detail.
Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. or 9 a.m., which means he could have missed seeing the Horman truck being in the two spots investigators are interested in, especially since he spent his time and attention at the school mowing the soccer field. Investigators say that puts him on the gravel road outside of the critical half-hour window they want to know about since they have witnesses who saw someone in or around the Hormans’ truck during that time.
“It would be impossible for me to either enter [ENTER] the field or exit [EXIT] the field if there was a car parked on the gravel road itself,” he said. “And then while exiting the roadway, if there was somebody parked that close to that hillside, it would have made it difficult for me to see who’s coming down the hill (on Skyline Boulevard), I mean it would seem to me like I would have remembered, ‘Oh gee yeah,’ there was a big white truck in my way when I left that day. I would say I’m certain that it wasn’t there.”
—————————————
(snips)
Stensen’s own truck, with a trailer on the back, would have been parked in the area investigators are asking about, at least briefly, as he came and went that morning.
It would have been there on the way in, as he got out of the truck to unlock the padlock on the chain that allows him access to the field. It would have been on that road on his way out as he went behind the truck to put the chain back in place.
Investigators are talking to Stensen and checking his information against what they’ve gathered. They say they find him credible.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html
—————————————–
skyline parent says:
November 22, 2010 at 11:45 pm
“The local belief is that she was at the mouth of that road (which would mean the shoulder) blocking anyone else from using it. WEIRD place to park if you show up at 8 am. Even on science fair day, I guarantee there were spots left in the main lot. Also, commonly the person parking there would pull up and let people park behind him/her. By 9 it was probably crowded”.
————————————
Neighbor says: March 3, 2011 at 8:54 am
> “There was a white truck on the access road, but it was parked
> diagonal. The rear was partly on the access road and the nose
> pointing fairly steep down to Skyline blvd. Hope this clears things
> up instead of adding to the confusion. Time was about 8.31. As I
> recall (after many months) the GK had many spots blocked on the main
> parking.
———————————–
The interview with Stenson mentions the gate is padlocked and he had to open it. I don’t think he ever was quoted as saying he had to go to the office to get the key. However, Neighbor said he had “many spots blocked on the main parking” – it seems he would only do that if he had to go get the key because if he had a key with him, he would have pulled straight onto the access road up to the padlocked gate. IMO, he would not have parked the whole time in the main lot, unloaded and ridden the mower all the way to the field.
The timeline that makes the most sense is:
Groundskeeper arrives and parks across spaces with his trailer in the main lot because it is early and people aren’t arriving yet. He goes to the office to get the key and back to his truck. He has moved his truck to the soccer field and is cutting the grass before 8 AM.
Terri arrives at 8 AM. Both Skyline Parent and Neighbor said there was a white truck parked there. It was not GK’s because he had a trailer and a sign on the side of his truck identifying it as a Portland Parks truck. If it was not Kaine’s truck, it still doesn’t change the timeline.
Terri leaves – she says 8:45, but I have always thought earlier. The buses arrived and unloaded kids at 8:35. I think she went out as they were coming in. Terri told 2 versions (that we know) of what she did that morning as she was leaving. She said first that she went up one stairwell and Kyron went up another and she watched him go to his room. Later she said that she told him good-by in the hall and watched him walk toward his classroom. The first version was told by the LE spokesperson. The second was told by Terri through one or more emails. (I can dig up links to those in my notes.) I think her second version was designed to make her look a little more responsible than the first. Personally, I think she just left as Kyron got interested in looking around and was back at the truck by 8:35.
GK says he left at 8:45 or maybe 9AM. We know he saw kids come outside to look at the garden area while he was mowing. Most kids came at 8:35, would have gone to their rooms to deposit their stuff and then started moving around the building. Therefore, I think he was pretty accurate with his timeline, especially since I believe he had to return the key to the office. He didn’t need the key to lock the padlock, but most people would pull through the gate, lock it, then walk up to return the key.
If this is correct, the GK would not have noticed any vehicle parked in the area they were asking about.
I don’t remember any more reports involving the GK after this, so I’m assuming his story stands “as is”.
A long laundry list of things he could testify to and he is believed to be living with his mother and grandparents. I have no idea what is on that list, but I’m guessing if a son believed or knew his mother murdered or conspired to abduct his brother, I doubt he would be willingly living with her. He was separated from her for a time, which, IMO means he must have chosen to return to her. What I assume is on the list are lifestyle choices and knowledge of relationships, information LE must already have.
What more, MBS, in terms of “character testimony” would James say than this?
“James, who is staying with his father, Ron Tarver, in Roseburg, said his mother treated Kyron like her own son.
“The only difference between her relationship with Kyron and me was the difference in ages,” he said.
Terri was the first to recognize that Kyron needed glasses, James said, and taught him sign language by the time he was 6 months so she could communicate with him. ”
He also said:
-only heard them fight once in 8 yrs
–mother hysterical when Kyron abducted :
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html?mobRedir=false
Any request to depose James for mere general character testimony about his mother, or to seek reports on the marital partners’ interactions that both adults are the best sources on, would be simply a continuation of harassment by Desiree’s “Roseburg Supports patrons. One need only look at the kgw story comments to see their threats should he profer testimony not to their liking.
He was far removed physically from the events of 6/3-4/10 and no reasonable person could claim he has knowledge of any abduction matters.
Unless Rosenthal has physical evidence, such as medical records, Kaine allegedly molested James when a minor, his testimony has no probative value imo.
From what I have seen, I would not only agree with that, but I might add even if it did, the possible emotional distress to him would require a proffer on behalf of the plaintiff that would require specificity, imo. No fishing expeditions.
B
I appreciate that entirely, but I hope you will consider that I am telling you that is inaccurate, and that individual would not have access to same. Their is so much of that in this case I want to scream.
That said, I respect that you felt a legit source, and did not just float it,
B
lyla says:
July 18, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Who stated this? Which gate key? I think we have some rumors circulating.
B
===========================
**Here is the list of sources/posts regarding the gate key and Stensen going inside the school to obtain and return the key.
mas says:
June 23, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Blink, not to rehash the whole Stensen thing but found a comment on KTU (about half way down the comment list on page 2)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html#idc-cover
The jist of the comment posted stated the info came from a skyline student’s facebook page and stated that “she was annoyed with the person doing the mowing because he took up three spaces with his pick up and his trailer when the spaces were needed for the people at the science fair. Also she said he never cut the grass during school time so why now.” (she was annoyed and my guess is her parent was annoyed due to him taking up 3 viable spaces and kids will express annoyment that their parents express especially while driving and parking)
So, if that is true than Stensen was not on the access road as he stated the entire time while he was mowing.
Now, I tend to believe a child over an adult any day of the week. I wonder if LE followed up to see if it was true.
————–
Reply by MBS
MockingbirdSings says:
June 23, 2012 at 8:30 pm
I think we have determined that Stensen parked across those spaces temporarily while he walked into the office and got the key to the access road gate. Then he returned the key before he left.
———–
News report Video @ 1:54 mark – that shows Stensen locking the gate (chain)
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html?tab=video&c=y
———–
Map of inside Skyline and the location of the office and Kyron’s classroom. (Kyron’s classroom was room 213)
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/floorplanofSkylinecropped.jpg
********
So, what I am wondering is, if Stensen locked the gate and parked somewhere else such as main lot to return the key or did he return the key and then moved his truck and relocked the chain with the padlock without the key since there was a ton of people at Skyline that morning at that time and the main parking would have been to congested to park his truck and trailer upon leaving that morning around the 9am mark.
***To me it would seem relevant since that would narrow down which door he accessed to return the key and wider thinking outside of Stensen not being suspect, did Stensen cross paths with Kyron and SZ since the timeline would have potentially put Stensen in the same area as where Kyron was last seen by potential witness(s) and Stensen may have unknowingly seen the SZ with Kyron and didn’t pay much attention?
This is what *neighbor* was saying about Stensen, I think the assumption was made about getting a key based on him pulling into the parking area instead of the dirt road? Just an assumption as far as I kind find.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8661.msg1241032#msg1241032
The parking lot and the school building are not visible from the dirt drive that goes to the field. However, most people will drive by that dirt drive on the way to the official parking lot. You pass it when you come from NW Cornelius Pass or you will see coming from Brooks Rd. The far East of the soccer field is not visible because it lot lower and thereby blocked from view.
On Jun/4, The GK blocked a large number of parking spots in the “official” parking lot. I was surprised the ï.b. expo” sign might have signaled him that every parking spot would be needed. A few weeks ago another GK blocked a similar number of spots, but drove the lawnmower from the “official” parking over the dirt road and to the fields. That would be the logical thing to me, but maybe the GK on Jun/4 indeed decided to load the mower on the trailer, and bring it to the fields. That would make sense if he was afraid that the dirt road would be blocked. Then again, why would he need to block those parking spots? I do remember seeing a white truck halfway on the dirt road, but did not notice a trailer behind it. The truck that I saw was not fully on the dirt drive and might not have blocked it.
In January 1994, James Logan was born, named for James Bond and Carol Moulton’s maiden name, Logan.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
Unless this report is wrong James is 18. (I never know what to believe anymroe.)
Am I the only one who finds the KGW title:
“Terri Horman wants to silence son
about Kyron case”
extremely tacky. Firstly, it makes it sound like James wants to testify and I highly doubt that. Secondly it makes it sound like she wants to off him. I’m so frustrated with the reporting on this case.
JMO
I find it bias. I totally agree. Honestly, it reminds me of a dang guppy fishtank. Throw in the food and whoever gets it dives to the bottom ( or writes a post to insure more food).
B