Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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MockingbirdSings says:
August 19, 2012 at 11:48 am
Without a finding that custodial interference in the first degree has occurred, AAron’s law never applies.
B
———————————
Just to be straight about this – let me see if I have this right:
1. I think Blink is agreeing with me that Aaron’s Law is not the basis for this suit.
2. Desiree is entitled (for whatever reason) to sue (according to the court) and the case is going forward with discovery and will have another hearing for case management in October.
3. Sean Cruz is perhaps the only one (I have heard) saying she has based her suit on ORS 841, although Bruce McCain and others made comments which seem to be based on interpretations of ORS 841.
4. I am and have been saying they do not have to use ORS 841 – I think they could base the suit on ORS 163.257. (I posted before: “This is why I’m not sure they are using Aaron’s Law ORS 841, which refers only to section 1(a) of 163.257, when 163.257 also says ‘or 1(b) Exposes that person to a substantial risk of illness or physical injury,’ and IMO, could be used.) The reason I brought up the wording of ORS 841 and compared it to 163.257 was because of Bruce McCain’s comments (also posted here) which seemed to refer just to 841 and he pointed to proving Kyron was taken out of state as a big barrier to the suit, followed by Blink’s agreeing with him.
reference for #3 above:
bumble says:
August 18, 2012 at 8:18 pm
GraceintheHills says:
August 18, 2012 at 3:53 pm
MockingbirdSings says:
August 18, 2012 at 2:16 am
January says:
August 17, 2012 at 11:45 am
Could this be what LE’s “California interviews” be about?
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1206/01/ijvm.01.html
Jane Velez-Mitchell’s interview with Bruce McCain regarding Desiree’s lawsuit.
Clipped:
“Straight out to Bruce McCain, attorney and former captain with a sheriff`s office — very, very knowledgeable on this case; tonight, Bruce, what do we know about this lawsuit Kyron`s mother has filed?”
“One of the elements that`s going to be very difficult in this case is that the first-degree custodial interference that Desiree has to prove requires a showing that Kyron was taken out of state. That`s going to be virtually impossible.”
Mr. McCain is absolutely right, everyone remembers me saying Desiree had bad advisors, right?
My piece on this publishes Monday.
B
———————————
5. We all seem to agree that proving Kyron was taken out of state seems to be impossible with what we know now. But, even so, the way I see it:
(A) ORS 163.257 does not require proving “taken out of state” as the only way to show first degree custodial interference – there is a second option which is section 1(b) “Exposes that person to a substantial risk of illness or physical injury.” How could this not be true when Kyron was only 7 and taken from all those who cared for him, plus Terri, herself, said a doctor told her he might be having mini-seizures. Whether this is true or not, isn’t the point. The point is that it contributes to the “substantial risk of illness or physical injury.”
(B) It seems to me that if Desiree gets enough information about where Kyron is or what happened or to indicate who might be responsible (proof or no proof), and still loses the suit, she will still feel like she won. If we jump ahead to second guess the result of the suit, what do we accomplish? It’s too late to influence the decision to file the suit, the court has said proceed, and I don’t personally think she or her suit can “ruin” anything for the criminal case which can still legally proceed whenever the DA decides to do so.
————————————-
Reviewing Aaron’s Law one more time:
http://www.leg.state.or.us/05orlaws/sess0800.dir/0841ses.htm
Chapter 841 Oregon Laws 2005 (snipped)
SECTION 1. (1) Any of the following persons may bring a civil action to secure damages against any and all persons whose actions are unlawful under ORS 163.257 (1)(a):
[NA] (a) A person who is 18 years of age or older and who has been taken, enticed or kept in violation of ORS 163.257 (1)(a); [[or]]
[yes] (b) A person whose custodial rights have been interfered with if, by reason of the interference:
[yes] (A) The person has reasonably and in good faith reported a person missing to any city, county or state police agency; or [NOTE THE “or”]
[NA] (B) A defendant in the action has been charged with a violation of ORS 163.257 (1)(a).
[NA] (2) An entry of judgment or a certified copy of a judgment against the defendant for a violation of ORS 163.257 (1)(a) is prima facie evidence of liability if the plaintiff was injured by the defendant’s unlawful action under the conviction.
Here is the deal breaker for ORS 841 which makes the “or” in my double brackets above, useless:
(5) A person bringing an action under this section must establish by a preponderance of the evidence that a violation of ORS 163.257 (1)(a) has occurred.
If they had included the entire section (1) both (a) and (b), it would have made sense. If they had not included item (5), one might attempt to argue that the legislature intended to use the entire section (1) of 163.257, including (a) and (b) because the wording of (A) and (B) in 841 seems to imply that. But once they repeated that a violation of ORS 163.257 (1) (a) is required, Aaron’s Law is only useful if a preponderance of the evidence shows the person was likely removed from the state.
One thought does occur to me – if they can eventually show that anyone who is a strong possibility to have been involved in this, left the state any time after Kyron was taken (small plane, truck, car, boat – even if the person(s) returned again), and LE has nothing to show that Kyron or his body is still in Oregon after all their searching, it does sort of open the window a bit for the possibility he was removed from Oregon – this could include the Washington side of the Columbia River (divided in the middle) and the ocean beyond the Oregon coastal boundary.
I know I have wordy posts that may be hard to follow, but I live in fear of Blink saying she wants the link or documentation for this or that.
Is it just me, or does this guy, look a lot like:
http://www.roundupweb.com/story/2012/06/27/news/sex-offender-notification/803.html
this guy:
http://lyndentribune.com/
Originally busted in OR, supposedly living in ND as of last June, but who knows.
MBS, your posts are ridiculously good.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/06/kyron_horman_task_force_to_dis.html
During the investigation of the other potential persons of interest, the team realized that some evidence — namely phone records and computer log-on information from Skyline School the day Kyron went missing — were not kept by the school district as the sheriff’s office didn’t request the preservation of those records.
____________
Having just re-read that, I’m struck by the wording. While LE was looking into potiential persons of interest they discovered phone and computer records missing from Skyline.
Does that indicate a potential POI is a staff member or some other person with access to phones and computers at Skyline?
One would think so but then again with the way this story has been reported…
@January: I am of the mindset that there was a second white truck at the school that morning involved in Kyron’s disappearance. I do not believe it was the groundskeeper’s truck.
I thought I remembered Blink mentioning a second white truck parked out back of the school. Am I remembering that correctly?
@TRuth. Sure is a similar description. It would help
to know the details of priors, wouldn’t it?
just filled 15 or so trash bags with my kitchen (discovered Mites @ Midnight).
where is that north star?
waiting Blink’s Monday piece.
@mbs. excellent post as always. I expressed my opinion
when suit was filed I didn’t think Aaron’s law was basis,
and I questioned Mr Cruz’ insistsnce it was.
However since then I’ve begun to wonder.
He seems so sure I feel he must
have talked with Mrs Young so she thinks it is.
What ER actually filed is a different matter
from what Cruz thinks. I think his goal is breaking
the conspiracy all seem sure of, so the cause(s) of action
is not his most important litigation feature imo;
it’s the case conduct.
MockingbirdSings says: August 19, 2012 at 7:22 pm
===========
Very clear and well written explanation of the laws.. Thank you! I am looking forward to Blinks new report tomorrow!
Amys Sister says:
August 20, 2012 at 1:51 am
I thought I remembered Blink mentioning a second white truck parked out back of the school. Am I remembering that correctly?
@Amys Sister
Following is comment from Blink
————–
September 19, 2010 at 11:19 am
Two nearly identical white trucks- One parked in the rear, and Terri parked on the shoulder.
B
I saw this story from Idaho this morning, very strange. Police there are investigating the discovery of remains believed to be that of a child.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/08/19/2237756/homedale-police-investigating.html
Rose says:
August 20, 2012 at 2:11 am
@mbs. excellent post as always. I expressed my opinion
when suit was filed I didn’t think Aaron’s law was basis,
and I questioned Mr Cruz’ insistsnce it was.
However since then I’ve begun to wonder.
He seems so sure I feel he must
have talked with Mrs Young so she thinks it is.
What ER actually filed is a different matter
from what Cruz thinks. I think his goal is breaking
the conspiracy all seem sure of, so the cause(s) of action
is not his most important litigation feature imo;
it’s the case conduct.
——————–
I so agree with your comment about the case conduct.
And – it may well be that Desiree’s best “training” for getting through the civil case is her interest and involvement in roller derby events.
Amys Sister says: August 20, 2012 at 1:51 am
————-
IMO, the idea of two white trucks makes sense to me. The first truck, Kaine’s, which Terri arrives in with Kyron. The second truck, a truck “someone else” arrived in but parked below where LE showed photos. Terri and Kyron go inside school while second driver got out of truck #2, and went to get in Kaine’s truck. Terri leaves the school, goes to truck #2 and heads to Fred Meyer. SZ tells Kyron to go to the truck… He goes to Kaines truck to meet his fate.
This scenario would support the timeline, the second truck parked below school (shown in LE photo), the second person seen by two witnesses in Kaine’s truck, and SZ. All MOO
FWIW, I’ve always suspected there was at least one other white Ford F250 or F150 at the school that morning. They are very common in Oregon and if so, the witness who saw Kyron by a white truck may have seen him by a truck owned by someone other than the Hormans. Highly possible IMO.
This is all I could find on Lowden’s crime, this was in Coos County, OR, January 2006.
€ William R. Lowden – Hearing to change plea on charges of third-degree rape, third-degree sexual abuse and contributing to the sexual delinquency of a minor.
http://theworldlink.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_7ea35b07-e14c-521a-9385-e1b2fc075522.html
Here’s another photo of him, which looks interestingly more like the second sketch. The earlier one I posted of him I thought looked like the first sketch.
http://www.offendex.com/zipdirectory/MT/59802/William_Ryan_Lowden_236395
http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/MTMT02563820/William-Ryan-Lowden.html
I can’t find anything else on this person at all. Probably not the guy anyway, but he sure looks like both sketches to me.
cd says:
August 20, 2012 at 5:14 am
_____
Thank you. I have images of neatly highlighted and tabbed notes you’ve been taking all these years.
More abuse charges for Beaverton foster father
A former Beaverton foster home operator, already in prison for sex abuse, now faces charges connected to additional victims.
(snipped, more @ link)
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/More-abuse-charges-for-Beaverton-foster-father-166777926.html
Damn, this pisses me off. Just like the Second Mile kids who were abused, these AH’s are targeting little kids who need our care the most. I would like see this SOB hung by his you know what’s until they fall off. 5 years? pftttt!
(sorry, it really does piss me off)
T. Ruth says: August 20, 2012 at 2:13 pm
===========
Looks like the sketch to me too.
@Idahogal says:
(snipped)
“August 20, 2012 at 11:02 am
I saw this story from Idaho this morning, very strange. Police there are investigating the discovery of remains believed to be that of a child.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/08/19/2237756/homedale-police-investigating.html”
————————————————————
Very disturbing. They didn’t allude to any missing persons in the area.
It was strange that two years ago it seemed everyone had a truck like Kaine’s
Now I never hardy see one
I missed this report by the O, it’s very interesting, so I thought I’d share it with anyone else who may have missed it.
Predicting a predator’s next move: Tracking Oregon’s high-risk sex offenders
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/07/predicting_a_predators_next_mo.html
It is that T. Ruth, and I wish had the time to break some of the issues in it I disagree with down, but overall Maxine provided a balanced report so I will just say this- it is ridiculous to think convicted sex offenders who are looking to stay out of the klink are going to be honest about mastabatory and porn use habits. Seriously.
B
Homeless man Mark Beebout accused in second murder case
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/08/homeless_man_mark_beebout_accu.html
***********
The title should read homeless REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER.
@January
(snipped) “IMO, the idea of two white trucks makes sense to me. The first truck, Kaine’s, which Terri arrives in with Kyron. The second truck, a truck “someone else” arrived in but parked below where LE showed photos. Terri and Kyron go inside school while second driver got out of truck #2, and went to get in Kaine’s truck. Terri leaves the school, goes to truck #2 and heads to Fred Meyer. SZ tells Kyron to go to the truck… He goes to Kaines truck to meet his fate.
This scenario would support the timeline, the second truck parked below school (shown in LE photo), the second person seen by two witnesses in Kaine’s truck, and SZ. All MOO”
————————————————————
So Terri had keys to the #2 truck and SZ had Terri’s/ Kaines keys? I wonder if any of Terri’s/Kaine’s friends-acquaintances drove a white truck.
Wrt the Idaho story I shared earlier, sadly it seems a mother killed her daughter, just sickening.
http://www.ktvb.com/news/Police-investigating-suspecious-death-166699576.html
the only suggestion Kyron was targeted in advance is a clone truck,
plus knowledge it would be at Skyline that day.
my guess is with baby seat Terri often drove truck.
January and Lyla,
When, where and how are the trucks switched back? Does someone come to the Horman house and trade trucks? Was it done at Fred Meyers? Albertsons? Did it have anything to do with the white truck on Kelley’s street? Which vehicle did the Horman’s use to go back to the school that day?
lyla says:
August 20, 2012 at 4:59 pm
good Qs Erose.
re: sex offender parole supervision
( and what about those off parole?)
The only reason a functionally
useless statistical program is used is because the supervising
gov’t employee caseload in the community is 45 ( doubtless plus)
just like child protective services.
the only way society can supervise high risk SOs on parole is seasoned proven employees
with a caseload of 10-12. And taxpayers won’t pick up the tab for those govt resources.
So why aren’t sentences longer & isn’t parole less frequent?
@erose
erose says:
August 20, 2012 at 6:13 pm
(snipped)
“January and Lyla,
When, where and how are the trucks switched back? Does someone come to the Horman house and trade trucks? Was it done at Fred Meyers? Albertsons? Did it have anything to do with the white truck on Kelley’s street? Which vehicle did the Horman’s use to go back to the school that day?”
lyla says:
August 20, 2012 at 4:59 pm
———————————————————————-erose, I didn’t quite understand January’s post about the switching of the trucks. I think she’s saying SZ had her truck to capture Kyron and Terri had SZ’s truck at the FM store. I suppose January’s theory is possible and if true, TH was surely in cahoots with SZ.
@erose
@January
There’s always been confusion regarding a second white truck and TH’s unaccounted hour plus time driving the backroads with Kiara. Also she’d have to meet up with SZ to switch trucks again. Sounds fairly risky to me.
@Lyla
To risky For sure
Who ever took Kyron had to hit the trail running
IMO
Not worry about trucks trading
Thanks Lyla. My question is not how they did it, but how they un-did it?
@Rose, First the AC, then the mites. No fair.
Yes Lyla, Risky, but do-able, just wondering how, and how it fits with what we know. I know you are wondering that, too.
I have to admit I just skimmed that article today, busy with other stuff, but I was impressed that the O put it out in the first place. Totally understandable if Blink or anyone else doesn’t have time to read and digest it right now. Just wanted to share the info. What really surprised me is that I missed it in the first place, as it contains the sort of info I was wanting to view in the first place. Now, just waiting for Blink’s newest report on Ky’s case.
Thank you T. Ruth, I look forward to publishing
Feeling tight-ropey. Was thinking about falling out of a young tree for confidence and only minor pre-injurious vertigo.
Where are my chess friends when I need them?
I will get there, thanks for the confidence, I am re-reading the program that has my name at the bottom now.
Heave ho and all that.
B
T. Ruth says:
August 20, 2012 at 4:28 pm
I missed this report by the O, it’s very interesting, so I thought I’d share it with anyone else who may have missed it.
Predicting a predator’s next move: Tracking Oregon’s high-risk sex offenders
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/07/predicting_a_predators_next_mo.html
It is that T. Ruth, and I wish had the time to break some of the issues in it I disagree with down, but overall Maxine provided a balanced report so I will just say this- it is ridiculous to think convicted sex offenders who are looking to stay out of the klink are going to be honest about mastabatory and porn use habits. Seriously.
_____________
For five years a RSO slept with a child in the same bed. What system was used to track him all those years?
http://kfor.com/2012/08/17/mother-arrested-for-allowing-uncle-to-impregnate-her-daughter/
From the article:
““She knew he had just gotten out of prison for a child sexual abuse case and he was now a lifetime registered sex offender but she put her daughter in that position,” Brown said. “Then her daughter was sleeping in the same bed as Matthew Mallory while the victim’s mother was sleeping on the couch in the living room.”
Authorities said this type of abuse is much too prevelant.
“I believe it’s getting worse,” Canadian County Sheriff Randall Edwards said. “I don’t remember in my lifetime as an adult or a law enforcement officer ever seeing as much abuse as we see today.””
***It is getting worse and it will continue to get worse until we drastically change the way we handle crimes against children.
Compliant victims enabling offenders is the new skeeve meter, apparently.
How sick.
B
erose says:
August 20, 2012 at 11:07 pm
Thanks Lyla. My question is not how they did it, but how they un-did it?
_____________
What if they did not need to undo it? What if the second white truck was a means to confuse the victim and potential witnesses but an actual swap never took place?
Rose says:…the only way society can supervise high risk SOs on parole is seasoned proven employees
with a caseload of 10-12. And taxpayers won’t pick up the tab for those govt resources.
So why aren’t sentences longer & isn’t parole less frequent?
_____________
Why indeed.
We either pay for offenders to stay in prison, pay for them to be supervised using more adequate means, or pay for additional criminal investigations and court costs when they’ve re-offended after being released and were not adequately supervised.
erose says:
August 20, 2012 at 6:13 pm
January and Lyla,
When, where and how are the trucks switched back? Does someone come to the Horman house and trade trucks? Was it done at Fred Meyers? Albertsons? Did it have anything to do with the white truck on Kelley’s street? Which vehicle did the Horman’s use to go back to the school that day?
———————————
@erose – so far, I can only find references to taking the car to the school after meeting the school bus. I personally would not refer to a pickup truck as a “car”, but I haven’t been able to find a video interview where you can see Kaine say the word “car”. Maybe someone else knows. I have always assumed they had a child safety seat in both vehicles, since it makes life much easier. I also thought perhaps they took the car because Kaine still had the keys in his pocket, but one story said he took Kiara and ran for the house – in which case, I assume to grab his keys and/or cell phone and lock the door. Also, since Terri got home first, the car may have been parked behind the truck.
One person I look forward to hearing testimony from during the civil case is the bus driver. I have at least a dozen questions I would ask.
I had “truck trouble” from the very beginning when we went back and forth about this. My questions were always related to inside the truck and what someone would plan to do. Maybe we should add more questions:
1 – Could anyone who drove, or sat in, the Horman truck do it and be confident they were not leaving any evidence someone else was there even if they wore gloves, a hat, and then cleaned the inside of the truck at a DIY carwash such as the one across the street from the Albertson’s (Blink says) Terri went to on June 4th? A hair, a partial print, a clothing fiber, etc.
2 – Probably a “dumb” question considering our opinions of how LE has handled the case, but would LE have towed and examined the truck twice and not have looked for evidence that anyone had been in the truck besides the 4 Horman’s?
I have always thought the safest (re a criminal not being caught) way for Kyron to leave school would have been in the Horman truck because evidence that he was in it was expected and would prove nothing (unless he was harmed in the truck). What I don’t know is whether someone who did not normally ride in the Horman truck could hide the fact from LE that he (most likely, or she) was there.
If there were a truck switch, they would have to switch back, of course. The switch, as we are describing now, would mean that Terri was actually in a different truck at one point, but she would be in less danger of being found out than an accomplice in the Horman truck would be (assuming a proper examination), unless she was actually seen by someone who knew it wasn’t the right truck, or video captured a license plate. Also – to swap, both trucks would need a car safety seat already sized for Kiara.
Bottom line – although it makes sense in the scenario of how things may have happened, it doesn’t make sense to me in the planning stage if the planners had any smarts at all. Reconnecting within a critical timeline would also be risky.
Putting Kyron in any different vehicle works if no one knows which vehicle and someone gets rid of the vehicle so that it cannot be searched even if they do find out – or Kyron is hidden in a container which can completely contain any evidence and be removed from the vehicle.
It’s possible a similar truck could have been a diversion or an attempt to mislead any witnesses rather than a vehicle actually used to transport Kyron. Since no one saw Kyron leaving campus, we don’t know that he left in a truck. Maybe the extra truck was used to block the view of a smaller vehicle where Kyron was tossed in the trunk?
——————————–
@Amys Sister – Reading ahead of posting – I see some of us may be heading in the same direction one way or another.
Amys Sister says:
August 21, 2012 at 1:06 am
erose says:
August 20, 2012 at 11:07 pm
Thanks Lyla. My question is not how they did it, but how they un-did it?
_____________
What if they did not need to undo it? What if the second white truck was a means to confuse the victim and potential witnesses but an actual swap never took place?
————————–
———————
@Amys Sister – I tend to agree with not swapping, however the problem I see with NOT swapping trucks is that it only seems to work if he left with Terri (which we’re told he didn’t) or someone switched the parking places of the 2 trucks so Terri could leave and Kyron would go back to a different truck in the same place he knew she parked. If he were told to “go to the truck”, I don’t think he’d have gone by himself to a parking place that he wasn’t sure of, especially by walking along the path by the soccer field so he wouldn’t be seen. It just doesn’t sound like him. To me, the least risky thing would be for him to be inside any vehicle in as short a distance as possible from the door he exited – whether he walked out alone or with someone – fewer witness opportunities and fewer chances for him to reconsider doing it.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/97276254.html
includes photo of truck being towed – there isn’t much distinctive about the truck except some stickers on the back window.
I’ve never measured, but I don’t think Kyron could see into the bed of the truck while standing on the ground, for what it’s worth.
@Rose, erose, lyla, Amys Sister and Malty,
In MOO only.. (And I would like to believe not true..)Just a possible theory of how this might/could have taken place, fitting everything we think we know into the timeline and using all the cast of characters/places.. (i.e. Terri, second person in truck, SZ, Fred Meyer, two truck locations, long drive etc.) If there were two trucks it would have been easy enough for both drivers to leave keys under the mat and doors unlocked. Terri takes off for Fred Meyer’s in truck #2, parked on the side road, between 8:45-9:00 (to establish alibi). Second person, in Kaine’s truck leaves with Kyron, and then (maybe) immediately transfers him off to someone else. Later, somewhere remote along Terri’s long drive, they swap back.. Risky, yes, but swapping back doesn’t compare to the riskiness of removing Kyron from the school.. The whole thing is over the top risky.. What is one more thing? This of course probably didn’t happen.. just thinking out loud.
After looking at all the pictures Terri posted on her Facebook page yesterday, however, I would like to believe she is completely innocent… Smiling, happy children with adorable captions for almost every shot, dating back for years. Terri a loving mom (albeit stressed out) to all the children is what I would like to believe. My above theory is just a way it could have gone down as it puts almost all the puzzle pieces together and in the timeline we’ve been provided.
erose says:
August 20, 2012 at 11:07 pm
Thanks Lyla. My question is not how they did it, but how they un-did it?
______________________________________________________
IMO, the gym parking lot would have been a good place for switching vehicles. I also wonder if Terri went to the gym to change clothes and if she and Dede wore identical outfits that morning.
the gym parking lot & interior most likely had cameras.
I agree w/Malty & profile — he was outta there & went to
a preplanned ground site immediately.
If Terri changed trucks, she would have had to have the baby’s car seat in the other truck.
Also, does anyone think the red sportscar zipping up and down Sauvie Island that morning could have been Kaine?
IOW, maybe Kaine and Terri BOTH have something to hide and little Kyron is the one who paid the price.
lyla says:August 20, 2012 at 4:59 pm
@January
(snipped) “IMO, the idea of two white trucks makes sense to me. The first truck, Kaine’s, which Terri arrives in with Kyron. The second truck, a truck “someone else” arrived in but parked below where LE showed photos. Terri and Kyron go inside school while second driver got out of truck #2, and went to get in Kaine’s truck. Terri leaves the school, goes to truck #2 and heads to Fred Meyer. SZ tells Kyron to go to the truck… He goes to Kaines truck to meet his fate.
This scenario would support the timeline, the second truck parked below school (shown in LE photo), the second person seen by two witnesses in Kaine’s truck, and SZ. All MOO”
————————————————————
So Terri had keys to the #2 truck and SZ had Terri’s/ Kaines keys? I wonder if any of Terri’s/Kaine’s friends-acquaintances drove a white truck.
oops, sorry. Should have read to the end. This has all been addressed.
BTW, which Facebook page belongs to Terri? There seem to be bunches of them.
FWIW, I don’t think the trucks had to be switched at all because LE went thru KH’s truck with a fine toothed comb. The “accomplice” would leave hair, DNA, or prints in/on KH’s truck, they would know that LE was going to be on it like stink after Ky disappeared. IMO too risky and complicated, and whomever SZ is, he is smarter than that, he is still out there over 2 yrs. later.
I definitely believe that there were at least 3 white trucks that morning: KH’s, Stenson’s, and someone else’s, maybe RS or DAD, because they both had white trucks too. It is so dang complicated!
JMO, but I think it’s possible that LE is looking for the car that was parked next to a white pickup truck, where a witness saw Kyron (or at least thought it was Kyron.) A pick that LE believes was the Horman’s pickup, either based on where Terri in fact said she parked, or a witness.
The reason I think this, is because of this flyer that asks in the FM (Imbrie Road) parking lot picture on the left. “Did you see the truck at approximately 9:00 a.m.? But, oddly, when you mouse over that picture it says we are seeing a view “from” Terri’s parking spot. And also oddly, it shows only one car in our view. A silver something. I personally think the only thing that makes sense here is LE is looking for the owner of a car, just like that one. They obviously aren’t looking for the Horman Truck if the view is from Terri’s parking space. However, they could be looking for a similar truck, but then, why put the car in the picture?
http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf
I don’t picture adults switching trucks. I only imagine Kyron arriving in one truck and leaving in the other. I think the primary concern was if someone saw Kyron getting into a vehicle it should be a similar vehicle to what he normally gets into so as not to raise any flags by possible witnesses.
Based on reports Terri moved her truck from the school parking lot to the road in front of the school. She left around 8:45 (per many reports) and the groundskeeper was done near nine and did not see her truck. Kyron went missing between 9 and 9:30.
Here is a good link describing timelines, to incluse Dede Spicher’s missing time and reminds us of all the side roads the white truck was thought to be driving around.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Sheriff-to–100446244.html
It is interesting that Dede has missing time, her cousin went public with information about Kyron possibly being on family property, her last boyfriend (whose father is a pedophile and actively involved in a Mexican orphange)went public in an odd way, and her brother has a similar white truck. Lots of strange coincidences from that direction.
January says:
If there were two trucks it would have been easy enough for both drivers to leave keys under the mat and doors unlocked. Terri takes off for Fred Meyer’s in truck #2, parked on the side road, between 8:45-9:00 (to establish alibi). Second person, in Kaine’s truck leaves with Kyron, and then (maybe) immediately transfers him off to someone else. Later, somewhere remote along Terri’s long drive, they swap back.
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Hmmm…. I can imagine that. LE implied Dede was the person witnessed as being in the Horman truck without actually saying it.
Following your line of thinking, SZ tells Kyron to get in the truck, Kyron gets in the Horman truck with Dede in it, SZ leaves in a different vehicle, he gets Kyron from Dede at another location, then Terri and Dede switch back. You’re right, January, this allows Terri to develop an alibi of being at FM. It could also be why she parked far away in the FM parking lot, because if she ran into someone she knew they might see that the white truck was not Kaine’s.
Does anyone know if James’ deposition is over? They can last for days. I mean, ya know, Terri hasn’t been arrested yet, so I’m guessing nothing has come out of it so far that puts a wrap on the case being built by LE. If all they are looking for from James, since he wasn’t there the day Kyron disappeared (or the day before?), is some sort of of profile on Terri’s child rearing and relationship with Kyron, I’d assume that questioning would be done already. “Did you ever hear your mother tell Kyron she’d like to kill him!?” “No.” etc, etc, etc.
Next up? The Moultons? Spicher? Who do you all think it will be? Who hasn’t LE been able to interview? It’s been reported that Spicher was cooperating with LE hasn’t it?
With the judge saying this case can go forward, doesn’t Terri’s attorney(s) now get to begin depositions as well?
I just can’t get any SZ talking over some plan to switch trucks to grab a kid
He does not want to get caught
He would be gone fast
But this is just my opinion
Also why should he trust Terri
She calls LE over everything
Malty says:
August 21, 2012 at 2:02 pm
I just can’t get any SZ talking over some plan to switch trucks to grab a kid
He does not want to get caught
He would be gone fast
But this is just my opinion
Also why should he trust Terri
She calls LE over everything
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Perhaps he already had something really bad on her. Terri is not talking for some reason or other, be it Kyron’s disappearance or something else. She is worried about something.
Perhaps there was not so much a discussion as much as instructions? Who knows. I pray we find out someday soon and there can be resolution (obviously hoping for the best outcome in which Kyron returns home to his Momma and Daddy).