Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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Malty says:
June 24, 2012 at 8:42 pm
I do believe Kyron was called by name
We tend to not respond to a person unless we are called by name
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Makes sense to me Malty.
Rose says:
June 24, 2012 at 9:18 pm
@vlh. thot the receipt was the in store starbucks
**************
I was wondering the same thing, IIRC two Starbucks employees were called to testify before the GJ, however, I never did know which Starbucks they worked at (together, or separately for that matter).
OTOH, I know many times I have walked into a store for something and on my way to the location of said item, I went ahead and picked up other things I knew I was out of, only to find that what I specifically went in for, was not there, so rather than return the items already in my cart, I just went ahead and paid for them and went elsewhere to get what I was looking for in the first place. Happened to me just the other day, at Fred Meyers no less, looking for a dog food they used to carry and was not on the shelf. LOL, tell me I can’t be the only one who has done this, right?
January says:
June 24, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Hi Mockingbird…. Re your post on June 23rd @ 9:09….. Do you know that DNA is actually being done on the hair? Even if it does take several weeks to find out if it belongs to DAD or Kyron, it is enough to at least be hopeful and answers mzy be forthcoming.
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All I know is what the sheriff of Columbia County said to reporters. I have no idea if anyone will announce if they find out it isn’t hair – where’s a good reporter when you need one? In fact, I have no idea if they will tell us if they DO find something related to Kyron or anyone else. Very frustrating. But I feel confident the State Police are examining something. Sorry I don’t have more of an answer.
VLH says:
June 24, 2012 at 3:32 pm
Curious if anyone knows:
We’ve heard that Terri has a receipt from FM #1 right? We’ve also heard they did not have the medicine TH was looking for at that store, right? So – if FM did not have what she went there to purchase, what DID she purchase in order to receive a receipt? Why not just leave the store and move onto the next? Did she need proof she was there at a certain time?
I have searched, and cannot seem to find the answer, and actually – I should have first asked – could this info even be important/relevant?
————————-
I don’t recall anyone (who really knew) saying what the receipt was for, although Starbucks was mentioned a number of times. IMO, it is totally useless unless she used a credit or debit card. Anyone can fish a receipt out of the trash – there are some meth addicts around here who have a whole routine using discarded receipts to “replace” merchandise they never bought. There was also speculation early on that someone else got the receipt for her – I don’t think LE ever said they had her on video as being there (or not), so it’s hard to tell.
A lot of these clues could be very meaningful if we simply knew whether even the simplest ones were true or not.
I believe Desiree is a smart lady. She’s married to a LE officer. She has an attorney willing to represent her in a civil suit. I don’t think this suit would be going forward if there weren’t really good evidence that Terri is in some way responsible for Kyron being taken away.
The fact that SZ knew Kyron’s name is a good indicator that either he knew Kyron or he was informed of Kyron. Will someone please share the information on what took place at the school between SZ and Kyron? I’ve never read that information.
Someone asked why Kyron wasn’t missed at the talent show? Why indeed? Do we really believe the school was that inept even when the parents don’t? IMO the school must have been led to believe that Kyron would be leaving with Terri. Nothing else makes sense except a cover up but that would be so unlikely wouldn’t it?
If a restraining order were in place preventing me from seeing my child I would force the court to prove that it needed to be in place. One man’s accusation that I attempted a murder for hire is not proof that I attempted a murder for hire. KWIM?
Terri knows what evidence they have and it must be good or she would be arguing against the restraining order. Desiree knows the evidence is sufficient to take a civil suit to court. I couldn’t find the quote but I think back to the statement made by the lead detective on the case… something about being sickened and disgusted by what he knew.
Terri is the one person who everyone involved believes can lead them to SZ and Kyron. Problem is, she’s not talking. Take it public with the civil suit? At this point Desiree has nothing to lose. Maybe, just maybe, it will lead to more information about SZ.
lyla says:
June 24, 2012 at 7:46 pm
Remember this statement? Now, after two years what would “surprise” you?
(snipped) September 15, 2010
“Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton called a press conference Wednesday afternoon after revealing during a morning meeting that he would create a task force to continue the Kyron Horman investigation.
…
The sheriff was asked if anything about the investigation will shock the public.
“I think there will be things that come out of this investigation that will surprise you, that you’ll think about later on after it’s over. These are things that I’ll tell you when you ask me about the stresses that my staff is under and that the other detectives and agency representatives here are under – is that we have a knowledge of things that we don’t want to know about. And that’s the only way that I can answer that. We have knowledge of things we wish we didn’t.”
______________
Lyla! You’re comment posted as I was typing my comment! LOL… I’m so glad you did because it’s way more accurate than my recollection.
Hi WPG, Good point. I have always wondered what his investigative team turned up. Let’s say TH did this. Are we (majority of posters here) in agreement that she did not physically take him? If so, then wouldn’t Houze try and get her some kind of deal?
wpg says:
June 24, 2012 at 8:03 pm
Why was in not reported anywhere, but from Blink through a source, that TH was at Albertsons? Why does LE find it important to keep that piece of information a secret?
I don’t think LE has discussed TH whereabouts publicly as it’s intent in releasing the flyer on seeking public information her of being parked at 2 Fred Myers. I think they legitimately were looking to confirm how long she was there, if she met anyone in the lot, etc. I know she is on CCTC footage inside Albertsons.
I have always believed that the strongest suspicions about TH in the immediate investigation have to do with what she purchased as allowing the perception that it might be used for something nefarious at the same time Ky was being abducted as my way of giving MCSO the benefit of the doubt as to why they pressed her so hard – so fast.
Disclaimer: I am not saying I know what she purchased- a hypothetical.
IE: 3 boxes of benadryl, an epi pen, latex gloves, bleach.
In other words, open to interpretation, did they assume something she bought was to be used in the commission of a crime to set that blaze to 4 alarm? I think yes.
B
cd says:
June 24, 2012 at 2:17 pm
MockingbirdSings says:
June 23, 2012 at 8:25 pm
Yet all of that would have been in vain if TH had walked Kyron to the door of his classroom. Would someone doing that much preparation have left such a major factor to chance? I certainly wouldn’t.
——————-
There was no Amber Alert, because not a soul saw him leave. He is out by 9:45AM-10AM.
B
——————
(cd says) I don’t think that kyron was taken at 8:45 – 9:00 when TH left him in the hall. It has always sounded to me (Kyron being seen in the gym, the cool electric one etc) like Kyron was seen at different places in the school other then his classroom before he disappeared and after TH left the school. So I don’t think it would have made any difference if TH had escorted him all the way to his classroom on June 4.
————————-
@cd –
I think it would have mattered if he had gone in the classroom and actually been assigned to a tour group for the rest of the SF time. I do agree about the timing – I suspect he did not leave right after Terri.
Here’s how I see the timing based on what has been said or not said, what I’ve experienced doing school events like this, the apparent lack of organization by the administration, and how kids respond in situations like this. In my best guess –
Terry left school in plenty of time to get to FM #1. Nobody paid much attention because the projects were interesting, some were probably interactive, and they also blocked a clear view across the rooms and the gym.
Kyron might have intended to go back to class, if Terri’s statement is accurate, but got distracted by an exhibit, a friend, or stopped in the bathroom. It has always sounded like Kyron never got officially into a group, which he would have if he had gone straight to class when Terri left. The only supposed contradiction to that was the report of the “sub” at the end of the touring time asking where Kyron was and the comment that he was probably in the bathroom, however, if he got distracted and was late to class, then saw the groups were already gone, he may have walked around looking for a friend to join up with or just walked around on his own. His first thought should have been to find his or another teacher he knew and ask what to do next, but not a lot of kids would immediately do that.
If Kyron caught up with a friend and tagged along with that group, the leader may not have paid much attention to him because he wasn’t officially assigned there, and may have just let him walk along with them. In any case, he was basically in an unsupervised, unstructured situation for a period of time – from the time Terri left to the time he left the building.
Let’s think about Kyron walking around and not keeping up with his “adopted” group, and no leader having him assigned to their group. The teacher probably had a group as well and she hadn’t seen him come in the room at 9 (although she did see him with TH at 8), so by the time the groups started out (wasn’t that supposed to be by 9 AM?), Mrs. Porter already thought he had left, if she thought about him at all.
The only person then who would have known for sure that Kyron was still there might have been the chaperone if Kyron joined up with a group, at least for a little while, but it’s also entirely possible that the group he hung out with was led by an upper grade student who may or may not have actually known Kyron. It’s also possible that he just started looking at exhibits alone.
If Kyron walked around on his own or with an older child as a group leader, then there was NO adult functionally aware he was still there – according to our lack of witness reports. (In other words, we have not heard any adult say Kyron was in their group and did tour the exhibits. And to my knowledge, no child of any age has said “Kyron was in my group and we walked around together.”)
Was the principal watching for “stragglers” from their groups? Probably not. Given the amount of support Skyline gets from the community and parents, and the presence of a PPS IB administrator there for the SF, I would expect him to be walking around meeting people, answering questions, and focusing on grades 4 – 8 since the primary grades’ participation was optional for the IB program.
We were told (by Neighbor, I think, and it appeared this way to me on the district calendar) that the bells were not changed to an official late opening for the day. So, either the bells rang on a regular class schedule, or more likely, they were turned off of automatic for the day and the office rang the bell (or chimes or PA announcements) as needed. I would expect a warning bell either 10 or 15 minutes before 10 – whatever was the amount of warning time usually used. I think if any child saw Kyron heading to see an exhibit after the warning bell rang for the 10 AM deadline, the child would have remembered that. Bells become very important to kids in grade school.
Let’s use brackets to enclose the time. Start the [ at 8:45 and the ] at 10 AM. So we have [8:45 to 10:00].
If the latest Terri left was 8:45 and Kyron was seen by 1 or 2 kids after that in the midst of excitedly touring, then he was likely to be there at least until 9:15. We can change the timeline to [9:15 to 10:00]. If the kids were coming back in the classroom, but not settled yet, and someone asked about Kyron, then we can back up at least 10 minutes. This makes the timeline [9:15 to 9:50]. Because of the crowd and the people going to their cars after the SF, I would move the time forward a bit more to at least 9:30 which makes the timeline [9:30 – 9:50]. Because of the attempts to direct kids to class and close down the touring, and the last of the parking lot being cleared of visitors, I would move the time period for SZ not being noticed in the hall ahead to about 9:40, although it could just as easily stay at 9:30.
I’m personally thinking Kyron left during this timeframe: [9:40 – 9:50]. Since he was seen, LE also knows which door was used. The fact that no one saw him leave could mean (as we have said before) they went down the outside steps, walked down the access road which is out of view from the school, and past the gate to where SZ directed him, or they were picked up by someone. Perhaps SZ parked across the road at the old church if he was an opportunistic predator. On the other hand, Andrea L. said she left the second FM in time to be somewhere else at 10. If Terri did not shop, but left right after Andrea, she could have gotten back in time to pick up SZ and Kyron by 10 or shortly after. It would probably make more sense for her to meet them somewhere – assuming SZ stuck with the plan.
I do remember that someone said a dog had tracked Kyron’s scent to the parking lot, but if true, and he were in and out of the building at different times between 8 and 9:50, how would the dog judge which was the oldest/most recent? And – if the dog alerted to the scent from the door to a parking spot, would they have still taken the dog around the grounds to see if there were other alerts or would (this) LE have assumed they knew how he left?
I do not know what the “outside by the truck” incident means. I can’t see SZ as someone carefully planning such an abduction and then being part of a “scene” noticed by others, unless he was perhaps working for/with Terri and arguing about something. So who was that, and why, and when? I don’t see how it could be between 9:40 and 9:50, and if it was earlier what difference did it make? (I’m still not sure whether Desiree was going to say there were 3 people involved, or whether there were 3 people who walked by and saw/heard whatever.)
The big puzzle for me now seems to be how did SZ get Kyron to be near the right door at the right time if Kyron was the targeted child? If he was not walking around with him, he had no control over whether Kyron went to the bathroom, went to his room, went back into the gym, etc. And how did SZ know, if he took Kyron that close to time to return to class, that Kyron would not be missed immediately?
If I’ve confused any of you, I apologize. We are all in the same boat.
lyla says:
June 24, 2012 at 7:46 pm
“I think there will be things that come out of this investigation that will surprise you, that you’ll think about later on after it’s over. These are things that I’ll tell you when you ask me about the stresses that my staff is under and that the other detectives and agency representatives here are under – is that we have a knowledge of things that we don’t want to know about. And that’s the only way that I can answer that. We have knowledge of things we wish we didn’t.”
**************
Like everyone, I have went over and over that statement thousands of times and I wonder:
“is that we have a knowledge of things that WE DON’T WANT TO KNOW about” = knowledge of things that distracted the investigation
“we have knowledge of things WE WISH WE DIDN’T” = knowledge of things that sent the focus the investigation in the wrong direction.
Typically a investigator would love knowledge to help solve a case but if the knowledge had no relevancy than it was a distraction. So, IMO, it all depends in what caliber that the statement was focused on whether he meant in an investigative sense or in a personally as a parent sense.
I wish the media would have asked that question.
Blink, that’s a great hypothesis of yours, and I see it absolutely motivating LE’s focus; but,
if there was a product shortage, and I’d gone to 2 FMs to get benadryl and they were out,
I’d darn sure buy 5 or 6 boxes for the cupboard at Albertson’s knowing more teeth were coming in.
Which is why this investigation didn’t need a inexperienced concrete-thinking Detective
who hasn’t parented leading the investigation. Needed a woman as co-Lead.
Agreed, but that is my point, it is going to be something interpretable, that outside of the subsequent crime would not raise focus.
B
@erose. re deal Q. that presumes she was part of a conspiracy
and knows WTH he is. Since Houze is great at plea bargaining,
failure to do so is good evidence she doesn’t.
Blink said:
The problem is, if this is random the only thing it attaches to likely, is exactly what we heard from Desiree and Kaine very early- they had a chat with him about following instructions and they feared that may have been a part of this.
*****
Has it ever been discussed who brought it to Desiree and Kaine’s attention that Kyron was not following instructions thus resulted in that chat. Was it Kyron’s teacher? Could his parents have been unknowingly preped to deliver that chat to Kyron?
@Blink. TY for the reply & education.
Wish I’d heard that colorful debate!
@Rose
(snipped) “I believe Kyron was put in a class tour group by Mrs Porter at 845 and disappeared thereafter.
The critical event was when she blew off his failure to return at 10. Why Kaine doesn’t focus on
the crime scene’s relation to Kyron’s abduction is unfathomable to me.”
—————————————————————–
Terri said goodbye to Kyron approximately 9am as she left the school and waived at him as he walked down the hall.Where was he between 9:am and 9:45am after Terri left? Was he seen by anyone during that 45 minute period of time before he was put into a tour group? Is it the norm kids are left unattended for a period of time? Blows my mind.
@Rose
Sorry my mistake on the time. Wasn’t certain when the tour group started.
IIRC there has been discussion TH might have been notified of Kyron’s abduction earlier in the day.
Blink – do you think it is possible TH knew Kyron had been abducted before he did not get off the bus? In your opinion has LE found anything of Kyron’s besides his backpack and jacket which was left in the school?
If TH was involved, and for me, that is still a ginormous IF as far as evidence is concerned, than yes, I do.
I believe LE recovered Ky’s glasses or glasses that were designed to be found and assumed to be his.
B
(snipped)”Disclaimer: I am not saying I know what she purchased- a hypothetical.
IE: 3 boxes of benadryl, an epi pen, latex gloves, bleach.
In other words, open to interpretation, did they assume something she bought was to be used in the commission of a crime to set that blaze to 4 alarm? I think yes.
B”
——————————————————————
You have just opened the floodgates!! I will add another hypothetical item I heard mentioned….shovel.
Although I have nothing to source this too other than a poster on another blog site.
Not following, link please.
B
** plea deal
jmo(not a legal-beagle by any means), the focus of TH’s legal team is to preserve her freedom. I’m not seeing where an attempt at a plea deal would fit to date – - – TH has not been charged with anything.
The 2-year abatement in the divorce case is coming to an end this October, isn’t it? Can or will it be extended is on my mind.
But FIRST, there is this:
** the restraining order
(snippet)
“As first reported by The Oregonian, the Multnomah County Circuit Court on June 28, 2011 extended the restraining order for an additional year to June 27, 2012.”
http://www.kgw.com/home/Restraining-order-against-Terri-Horman-extended-127977973.html
That would be this Wednesday, June 27.
Sorry, should have indicated the KGW link on the order renewal was for an article dated August 17, 2011.
@Lyla. IIRC The tour groups were formed when the regular bell rang and attendance was taken (or supposed to be).
IIRC The kids returned to classrooms with their chaperone at 10 at the conclusion of the science fair. That is when a responsible adult in Kyron’s classroom informed the teacher he was missing according to one class child’s account.
9-10 am is a lot of time to snatch a child.
Also, on reflection, Blink, why would MCSO conclue Terri would go yo stores to shop for snuff supplies or whatever at
9-10 am during what Desiree herself called a very planned abduction? A little late, imo.
By interpretable, it might be something like a lawn mower cutting the school grass at a time or on a day he’d never done before, as an example only?
@MockingbirdSings
(snipped) “The big puzzle for me now seems to be how did SZ get Kyron to be near the right door at the right time if Kyron was the targeted child? If he was not walking around with him, he had no control over whether Kyron went to the bathroom, went to his room, went back into the gym, etc. And how did SZ know, if he took Kyron that close to time to return to class, that Kyron would not be missed immediately?”
————————————————————
Great post MbS.
Leads me to believe SZ was informed in advance Ms. Porter would mark him absent because of the supposed Dr. appointment that day. SZ took a huge chance and managed to pull it off..jmo. What did Kaine say about
Terri..”A Master of Deception”.
There was no supposed appointment that day and Kyron brought his things into the homeroom that day.
An organized offender is never leaving that to chance. I have to encourage everyone to review this case with the possibility it was a random offender, and unrelated. Then what?
B
@mas says:
June 25, 2012 at 8:52 am
Yes, where’s the press when you need them? I think you may be right.
Also in those remarks Staton is referring to “things that stress out his staff” AND stress that “other agencies” are under, because of things they wish they didn’t know. Things they “don’t want to know about”. Obviously, it something was pertinent to the case, they’d want to know about it, no matter how hideous.
So, IMO, it sounds like Staton is saying exactly that, that they’ve uncovered things that have nothing to do with the case, but things that have everyone (including other detectives and agencies) found stressful. Sent out on wild goose-chases, or should I maybe say wild witch-hunts? Now that would be stressful for detectives.
I’ve never been able to decipher his cryptic crap and why hasn’t any reporter asked him what the H he meant? The man doesn’t have to be specific to be more clear for cryin’ out loud.
It seems to me the most interpretable action of Terri are her alleged emails.
Without a crime — venting.
With a crime — sinister?
I get the interpretable.
It doesn’t matter if Terri would give Kiara
something like benadryl to make her sleepy & knock her
out Combined with driving on open roads) to
knock her out and let them both get rest after
irritable teething. Because enough could also
wipe Kyron out so in view of the crime, it was a
suspicious act.
I bet that interpretable purchase was the thing they felt she
wasn’t truthful about on the LD test–not her
whereabouts as I’d assumed.
Well, for a very planned crime, that purchase timing would be an
anomaly.
So, here’s a theoretical canvas:
–490 AND their absent spouses
–absent staff AND their siginificant others
–Principals (the 4 parentis, in loco or not) AND their relatives to cover all who had
ever at any age come into contact with Kyron
–all PPS employees, contractors and subs who had done any
work at Skyline in the last X number of years
–neighbor houses for X radius (like Celis’ canvassing)
–all Volunteers who inserted thrmselves into the search, recovery, or ongoing
organized activities of Principals
–all who’d done work at Horman home in last X years, conflict or not (plumber, electrician, etc)
–those associated with Kyron’s earlier day care sites to birth, esp “family day care”
–those Tony had arrested or threatened to back X years
–patrons of 24 hour & Briefe’s Xtreme who interfaced with adult Hormans and/or children
–Coaches & team parents: swimming, soccer, baseball etc
–Counselors or teachers from prior summer day camps
–any special tutors
–personnel at the doctor’s, dentist’s, opthalmologist’s
–Medford neighbors and contacts, same as above
–Sex offender list in radius of school, Hormans & Medford
I feel like I’m just getting started and I’m exhausted.
By “principal” I do not mean Keefer but the parental 4some
What could one buy at Albertsons that you couldn’t get at FM
I keep going over what I have seen in Albertsons
It is mostly groceries
Where FM has everything
At Kaine Horman’s request, a Multnomah County judge has renewed the restraining order that Kaine Horman obtained against his wife, Terri Lynn Moulton Horman, for another year, lasting through June 27, 2012, court records show.
(snipped)
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/08/multnomah_county_judge_extends.html
Wednesday, hmmmm? Well, this should be an interesting week.
Yep.
B
I believe LE recovered Ky’s glasses or glasses that were designed to be found and assumed to be his.
B
So…if this is a stranger to stranger abduction ( an opportunist PEDO) what would be the purpose of SZ leaving Kyron’s glasses “or glasses that were designed to be found and assumed to be his” somewhere to be recovered?
Yes, I have him.
B
@Malty – I know that Albertsons very well, but I usually just go in there to get Starbucks when running errands or filling an Rx at Rite Aid next door. (Although, I do not believe this is the Starbucks she went to.)
@erose – The only thing I had ever seen publicly discussed by LE re: Albertsons was that they were asking for surveillance.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98150609.html
Snip
“Officials with Albertsons said they’ve turned over surveillance video from their store on Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway on June 4, the day the Skyline School second-grader”
Snip
SNIP>
An organized offender is never leaving that to chance. I have to encourage everyone to review this case with the possibility it was a random offender, and unrelated. Then what?
B
******************************************
Yip, and IIRC Blink, you mentioned from the get go, something to the affect of the *K.I.S* phrase. (keep it simple)!
Makes this very very scary and who knows for how much longer this will be “an isolated incident”. UGH
This scenario has never been excluded, links were posted earlier today stating same.
It is in until it is out, and this case is 2 years old.
B
I’m sure that many photographs were taken the morning of the science fair. Was LE able to obtain all photographs? Were they able to identify all of the people in the photographs? Was there any video taken? Was it reviewed? Were all people in the video identified? Did the school have any security cameras? Was it reviewed? Is there anyone there out of place? Maybe a vendor, etc. that was not their normal day or time to be at the school? Thinking……
@ Blink,
Blink , can you tell me if you have been able to find any Alias’s
for D.A.D?
What about RSO’s within say a 30 mile radius? Were they all checked out? Were they all where they were supposed to be? None unaccounted for? What about storage units? Are there any nearby, if so, who rents them? Were they checked out?
I’m jaded. Imo J Meisenheimer will auto renew absent new profers.
@ Malty,
26. Malty says:
June 25, 2012 at 2:28 pm
What could one buy at Albertsons that you couldn’t get at FM
I keep going over what I have seen in Albertsons
It is mostly groceries
Where FM has everything
***********************************************************
It was around the same time Oregon took some of the cold meds off the shelves and began requiring a prescription for them and/or very detailed tracking of who was buying what and limiting the amount. As a pure hypothetical thought of my own, it could have very well been a pediatric sudafed of sorts she was seeking and of course would explain several stores not having it, or, her not knowing she would now need a prescription for it.
Many kids with chronic allergies and ear infections can benefit from these meds, if followed by a dr.
All JMO and Just my Hypothetical
Well if this is the case, then LE lied to everyone by saying it was an “isolated incident” and failed everyone by not releasing a sketch or description of SZ. Every kid in a drivable radius is in danger if this was a stranger abduction.
I understnad there is a witness who heard SZ call Kyrons name. Was it a deep voice? Did they have an accent of any kind?
If this was a stranger abduction and in no way connected with TH, LE has botched this case IMO.
But, on the flip side, if this was a stranger abduction with no connections to TH, then why is she silent and behaving suspiciously? Innocent people don’t hide when someone they love disappears.
One other random thought/theory I have been having: Maybe TH told Kyron he had a doctors appointment and “the doctor” would pick him up from school and take him to his appointment. Maybe that’s why Kyron went with SZ without fear. Maybe Ky was led to believe SZ was a doctor and could be trusted.
************************************************************************
Blink Says:
There was no supposed appointment that day and Kyron brought his things into the homeroom that day.
An organized offender is never leaving that to chance. I have to encourage everyone to review this case with the possibility it was a random offender, and unrelated. Then what?
B
So…if this is a stranger to stranger abduction ( an opportunist PEDO) what would be the purpose of SZ leaving Kyron’s glasses “or glasses that were designed to be found and assumed to be his” somewhere to be recovered?
Yes, I have him.
B
Would it be a message to TH or a game for SZ? Does that fit any known Pedo’s profile?
Kozyotb says:
June 25, 2012 at 11:36 am
IIRC there has been discussion TH might have been notified of Kyron’s abduction earlier in the day.
Blink – do you think it is possible TH knew Kyron had been abducted before he did not get off the bus? In your opinion has LE found anything of Kyron’s besides his backpack and jacket which was left in the school?
If TH was involved, and for me, that is still a ginormous IF as far as evidence is concerned, than yes, I do.
I believe LE recovered Ky’s glasses or glasses that were designed to be found and assumed to be his.
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I thought LE stated they didn’t have any physical evidence linking anyone to Ky’s disappearance. Although Desiree mentioned her concern that Ky could not see without his glasses. Hmmm, got me wondering now.
It must not have been important to establish how long she was at Albertsons because the abduction had already occurred. No need to disclose that she was not *just* driving around for an hour and a half, or did not have time to go to Sauvie Island, that does not progress their investigation, all it does is cast some doubt on her involvement and whereabouts, which is irrelevant since she was never called a suspect by LE to begin with.
As for making purchases, perhaps not so much to subdue Kyron although it could have been used as such, but so that others can manufacture meth, I suppose, going store-to-store-to-store is common where minimum purchase limits are set, and in here in WA State, criminal. Known felons will not go try to buy the stuff themselves, they enlist the help non-suspect looking people and compensate with a cut of the drugs or money.
The subtle change in the story of an ear ache or a cold or teething, while symtoms are the same, might be telling in that the medications are different. Was she at the pharmacy window of three stores explaining that little one has a cold and it’s only a matter of time before the rest of the family gets one.
Speculating as usual.
erose says:
June 25, 2012 at 1:04 am
Why was in not reported anywhere, but from Blink through a source, that TH was at Albertsons? Why does LE find it important to keep that piece of information a secret?
I don’t think LE has discussed TH whereabouts publicly as it’s intent in releasing the flyer on seeking public information her of being parked at 2 Fred Myers. I think they legitimately were looking to confirm how long she was there, if she met anyone in the lot, etc. I know she is on CCTC footage inside Albertsons.
I have always believed that the strongest suspicions about TH in the immediate investigation have to do with what she purchased as allowing the perception that it might be used for something nefarious at the same time Ky was being abducted as my way of giving MCSO the benefit of the doubt as to why they pressed her so hard – so fast.
Disclaimer: I am not saying I know what she purchased- a hypothetical.
IE: 3 boxes of benadryl, an epi pen, latex gloves, bleach.
In other words, open to interpretation, did they assume something she bought was to be used in the commission of a crime to set that blaze to 4 alarm? I think yes.
B
@Rose says:
June 25, 2012 at 12:58 pm
By interpretable, it might be something like a lawn mower cutting the school grass at a time or on a day he’d never done before, as an example only?
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And said mower operator, correct me if I’m wrong is not currently working at Skyline School.
40. Kozyotb says:
June 25, 2012 at 4:49 pm
So…if this is a stranger to stranger abduction ( an opportunist PEDO) what would be the purpose of SZ leaving Kyron’s glasses “or glasses that were designed to be found and assumed to be his” somewhere to be recovered?
Yes, I have him.
B
Would it be a message to TH or a game for SZ? Does that fit any known Pedo’s profile?
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That’s a really good Question.
Blink – In your research and profile studies, is it “common” for a Pedo to leave behind a ‘clue’ or ‘hint’ (ex: glasses). It seems like leaving his glasses somewhere to be found is almost like a game. I know you’ve said that many Pedo’s thrive on the chase of obtaining their next victim, but is it common that they also play cat and mouse with the family / authorities afterward? I know that no two predators are exactly alike, but I thought pedo’s were more like vampires – chase, get blood, then hide until the next feeding? I hate writing that, it’s just the scenario that comes to mind. Thank you for educating!
There is no way to answer this to encompass the pedophile spectrum of offender behavior. I wish I could put this into some learning module, but that is impossible, and frankly a disservice to the science and the need to warn people of the potential offenders. In this disorder, I am considered a student to some of the peers I reference, although it is likely I have surpassed the education of this specificity of most investigators who are not tasked with this crime or profile SPECIFICALLY.
There is just no way to answer your question responsibly without simply repeating the information I already have, based on what is known.
I can absolutely say that anyone with additional case information in LE, had better be working the angle.
And if their is no additional intel, someone is in a hot mess of trouble.
B
In my question above, I was more asking if it was common in a Stranger – Stranger abduction (just to clarify).
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VLH says:
That’s a really good Question.
Blink – In your research and profile studies, is it “common” for a Pedo to leave behind a ‘clue’ or ‘hint’ (ex: glasses). It seems like leaving his glasses somewhere to be found is almost like a game. I know you’ve said that many Pedo’s thrive on the chase of obtaining their next victim, but is it common that they also play cat and mouse with the family / authorities afterward? I know that no two predators are exactly alike, but I thought pedo’s were more like vampires – chase, get blood, then hide until the next feeding? I hate writing that, it’s just the scenario that comes to mind. Thank you for educating!
Regarding restraining orders related to domestic violence in Oregon – they can be automatically renewed by the court annually if they have not expired and the person being restrained does not request a court hearing to contest the order. I do not have a link – I am involved with such an RO. The thought is that if anything has changed it is up to the person being restrained to present that to a judge.
If it expires however, you have to start all over to get a new one.
I would really be amazed if TH requested a hearing to contest the RO or if Kaine didn’t renew it. I do not believe a client has to show up to get it renewed.
VLH says:
June 25, 2012 at 6:07 pm
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@ Blink – I appreciate your position and response, thank you. I sure hope they are working that angle as well.
I never knew I had this much hope inside of me until Kyron.
Hope is the answer to any crime, any situation and everything that sucks in general.
Regardless of the outcome, hope should be the constant in any advocate and kudos to you for embracing it.
B
Is there a difference between the pedophile presumed to take Kyron and the Sandusky-type pedophile. I have no idea what all the profile types are, but if for example there was a type that groomed his victims in the Skyline vicinity, then other victims are there and silent, or we are not told about them.
Assuming that is true, then something went wrong that day, for everyone, including the pedophile. Otherwise, this is a violent offender, which Sandusky will now undergo analysis for in prison. It seems hard for me to believe that Sandusky is violent, as he seemed to get what he wanted through persuasion. But then who knows what he did when he did not get his way.
As for Kyron’s abductor, I wonder if this was an offender who escalated into violence, or something went wrong, or is he a just plain violent offender?
If this is a random and opportunistic event, this offender is sexually motivated, and yes, his fantasy based- victim strategy and various paraphilias include violence.
B
This is all speculation.
i noticed that the Albertsons stop was mentioned in news articles right after Kyron went missing and then Albertsons was never included in any timelines even though the Fred Meyer stops were talked about and pictures of the Fred Meyer parking lots were made public by LE. Why would LE ask if anyone had seen TH’s truck at the two Fred Meyer stores and not want to know if witnesses saw TH and the truck at Albertsons? Maybe the reason that LE and the press don’t talk about TH’s stop at Albertsons on June 4 is because something happened there that only the perp(s) would know about.
Maybe a note and or Kyrons glasses were placed on TH’s truck in the Albertsons parking lot or maybe there was an altercation/meeting of some sort that involved TH.
The suspicious part of this (if the stop at Albertsons involved SZ) is how would SZ know TH was going to be at the Albertsons store and how could he know what time she would be there unless a meeting was planned in advance. It seems unlikely that SZ would follow TH to 2 Fred Meyer stores and not place his note of whatever he was going to do and then follow her the Albertsons.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98147474.html
And this to is speculation. If TH had prior knowledge of Kyron’s abduction why didn’t she call the POLICE?